{"error":false,"id":["166963"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166963,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166963","日期":"2026-01-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,35-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,35],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-08T09:54:58+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-08T10:03:38+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/125fd21c0e10f54369a0b6311f9c26e6067a41bab2fb0feae25119d80932fbafb53d9e6741251f855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:54:58 - 10:03:38","會議時間":"2026-01-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王定宇等16人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張雅琳等18人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員李坤城等 19 人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（五）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.430343750000002,"end":12.383468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.711593750000002,"end":25.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.70284375,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.69784375,"end":26.625968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.54971875,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.12284375,"end":33.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.46409375,"end":47.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.97284375,"end":48.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.259718750000005,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.38096875,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.190343750000004,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.40909375,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.65721875,"end":70.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.48409375,"end":78.34784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.29284375,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.32159375,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.49784375,"end":100.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.34846875000001,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.98471875000001,"end":118.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.03346875000001,"end":120.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.49721875,"end":124.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.83846875,"end":128.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.79971875,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.97659375,"end":132.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.22534375,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.95784375,"end":169.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.28284375,"end":171.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.64971875,"end":173.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.23159375,"end":174.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.37909375,"end":177.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.18034375000002,"end":178.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.58096875,"end":186.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.46159375000002,"end":193.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.75596875000002,"end":196.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.70909375000002,"end":199.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.88159375,"end":208.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.01096875000002,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.31846875000002,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.16596875000002,"end":224.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.92409375000003,"end":227.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.68721875000003,"end":230.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.54346875000002,"end":238.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.32284375,"end":244.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.76909375000002,"end":245.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.76471875000001,"end":250.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.59096875,"end":252.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.49346875,"end":255.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.54784375,"end":260.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.27721875000003,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.64846875,"end":260.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.31971875,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.08909375,"end":309.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.92346875000004,"end":312.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.57284375,"end":314.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.54721875,"end":318.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.68159375000005,"end":329.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.00471875,"end":340.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.14221875000004,"end":348.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.57971875000004,"end":350.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.77784375000005,"end":362.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.46784375000004,"end":364.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.53534375000004,"end":363.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.44659375000003,"end":370.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.19284375,"end":368.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.69034375,"end":370.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.74096875000004,"end":371.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.97721875,"end":376.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.54596875000004,"end":379.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.98846875000004,"end":383.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.37596875,"end":385.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.81034375,"end":387.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.97034375000004,"end":394.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.84721875,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.58534375000005,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.14534375000005,"end":411.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.91596875000005,"end":424.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.34409375,"end":429.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.51221875000005,"end":442.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.30784375,"end":445.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.18909375000004,"end":453.96846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.52534375000005,"end":454.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.89659375,"end":473.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.45471875000004,"end":478.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.60596875000005,"end":519.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.00034375,"end":520.4897187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.211,"end":33.662,"text":"請主席我們是不是先請副部長請副部長可能等一下這個我們法律事務室如果有需要就幫副部長副部長好"},{"start":36.979,"end":53.875,"text":"這個我們今天我們司法法治委員會來安排這個有關陸海空軍刑法第24條修正條文的這個草案的討論跟審查那這個我看我們這一次的修法大概主要就是三個部分做修改"},{"start":55.441,"end":78.139,"text":"第一個就是在這個原來24條的第二項有關於不盡其應盡職責而降敵者這個部分這個提高刑責提高刑責這是第一個修法就把這種消極的不盡義務而降敵的這種行為太樣提高他的刑責這是第一個部分"},{"start":79.352,"end":105.748,"text":"第二個部分呢在這個第四項的部分就是把第二項我們剛剛講的這個行為太樣它的原本它的這個預備犯跟陰謀犯過去是第二項這種消極不盡其職責相抵的是沒有預備跟陰謀那這次我們修法把預備跟陰謀犯第二項之罪也把它納入這個刑責的範圍這個大概是第二個修法的部分"},{"start":107.042,"end":130.659,"text":"第三個就是我們新增的第五項有關於這種新的犯罪的類型就是以語言 舉動 文字 圖畫 電磁記錄 科技方法或其他方式對敵人表示效忠者對敵人表示效忠者 這個新增的啦就是大概這個修法 今天我們修法大概就這三個部分那這三個部分呢 這個"},{"start":133.359,"end":141.454,"text":"有關於這個提高刑責的部分我想大家應該這個社會大家共識應該是是比較沒有什麼爭議啦那關於這個"},{"start":144.63,"end":172.787,"text":"這個預備或陰謀的部分也過去因為實際上在這幾年發生許多案例在這個有預備陰謀的部分他卻沒有無法可苛責所以這個這個也應該比較沒有沒有什麼爭議所以我們剛剛我看剛剛前面委員大概集中的討論的都是有關於我們新增的第五項這個以言語舉動文字圖畫電磁記錄科技方法或其他方式這個對敵人為效忠之表示"},{"start":174.278,"end":185.917,"text":"那這個部分我們先來看這個過去我們看到的幾個案例剛剛也有委員有提到我這邊就舉幾個案例包括這個"},{"start":188.286,"end":214.657,"text":"這個2023年12月所做的判決我們前陸軍上校向德恩他簽了這個祥貢的承諾書祥貢承諾書那在這個最後判刑七年定宴但是問題是他那時候判刑就是因為當時沒有這樣子的規定所以他那時候判刑他在這個陸海空軍刑法裡面他沒有沒有法律可以規範這樣子的行為就簽署這個投降承諾書"},{"start":216.266,"end":243.233,"text":"所以最後判刑七年是按照依照這個貪污秩序條例收賄罪來判刑的嘛對不對是不是這樣 副部長是換句話說假設他沒有收錢假設他沒有收賄那他就變成這個行為就完全他是因為他收了錢他收了這個五十幾萬因為他收錢所以他觸犯貪污秩序條例假設他沒有收錢就簽了這個頭獎協議書"},{"start":244.844,"end":255.596,"text":"那這個按照如果我們沒有做修法的話按照目前的這個陸海控制刑法是不是我們沒有沒有辦法與法律上的苛責 副部長副部長還是我們司長要回答"},{"start":256.724,"end":284.396,"text":"各位報告 這確實上有法治上不足之處啊對 所以為什麼我們這次要做這樣的修法就是因為相關的行為這個2023年這個案子另外去年的2月我們有關於這個這個蕭翔雲 康一彬等等八名現役軍人的這個預謀嫁軍機叛逃拍攝新戰投降影片這個部分最後判刑也是依參互之罪條例也是因為他們收錢"},{"start":285.416,"end":301.14,"text":"假設都沒有這種收賄的行為今天我們不修法的話會變成這個我們目前的陸海空行法對這個部分沒有辦法苛責所以這部分我想我們會支持這樣的修法但是剛才所有委員大概關注一個問題這個問題"},{"start":303.34,"end":329.211,"text":"來自於什麼 來自於我們司法院今天司法院的書面報告司法院的書面報告也特別點出這一點第一個他們就是說我們在本案的研擬階段提出了這個有關於這個實害結果的這個文字就是說過去原本的案 原本我們的草案在研擬階段還有現在其他委員提案有關於逐生軍事上之不利益者作為這個構成要件"},{"start":330.071,"end":348.762,"text":"的一部分那在我們現在這個今天我們行政院的草案裡面是把這個這樣子的這個實施危險性的部分把它拿掉了那這部分是不是請市長再做一下說明 為什麼剛才我有聽到你的說明大概知道你的意思 是不是請你再說明一次"},{"start":349.645,"end":378.574,"text":"是跟委員再做一個說明因為我們將這個朱以生軍事上之不利益我們拿掉主要這個如果在刑法上是一個私信犯這是法院他後面對他這個行為有一個判斷的一個餘地啦但是我們就是認為說其實現役軍人就是要效忠國家你對敵人就不能夠有有一個效忠的表示這樣這個表示行為一出來我們認為就這個罪就成立了市長這部分齁要這樣子來講"},{"start":380.083,"end":401.441,"text":"因為我們這個什麼陸海空軍刑法開宗明義第一條就是現役軍人犯本法之罪者 依本法處罰啦也就是陸海空軍刑法規範的就是現役軍人這個身份犯的身份 這個身份是非常明確的那麼現役軍人 現役軍人他本質上在法律地位上 他本身就建立在對國家的忠誠義務上面"},{"start":402.242,"end":427.989,"text":"也就是說你這樣簽署簽署這種投降承諾書之類的這樣子的對敵人表示效忠的行為本身就已經違反了你這個作為軍人的這個忠誠義務跟服從命令的義務這個是我們入海空軍刑法第一條開宗明義就是規範他的這些忠誠義務相關所以如果我們加上剛才這個最後這個時害條件你必須"},{"start":430.718,"end":453.443,"text":"對於這個逐生軍事上的損害的話他會造成兩個結果第一個就變成你這個未來所有案件我們國防部必須負舉證責任舉證說他這個行為造成了什麼樣的軍事上面的影響但是其實在我們看來軍人因為他有這個國家忠誠義務因此當他有這個行為的時候他其實就必然的造成軍事上的損害是不是這樣講"},{"start":455.514,"end":473.209,"text":"對 所以就是因為他的身份我們陸海公共刑法的身份犯的這樣子的性質使得這樣子的規定他會造成未來我還要第一個國防部還必須舉證第二 國防部舉證之後你還要看城城法官的心證心證來看你這個到底有沒有造成軍事上的損害但是其實在我們來看"},{"start":474.52,"end":493.051,"text":"因為你是現役軍人因此你的國家就負有忠誠的義務所以你所有你只要有這樣子的簽署承諾書對敵人表示效忠的這樣子的行為的表示的時候你就已經造成軍事上的損害了對不對所以應該不必在這個條文裡面再增設這樣子的實害的條件對不對"},{"start":494.311,"end":517.687,"text":"這個部分我想要講清楚了 講清楚之後我想這個社會也可以接受那這個大家也對於這個清楚說入海空軍刑法的規範跟言論自由是完全沒有關係的它是在規範現役軍人你對國家的忠誠義務跟服從義務 對不對這個部分我想我們在等一下這個主條審查的時候希望我們能夠這個部分能夠表述清楚 好不好好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}