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部長請是 許委員好部長好那最近發生的這個非關的意外我想全體國人都非常的遺憾"},{"start":17.694,"end":32.168,"text":"目前也在搜救當中各界都在為他集氣所以我們今天不針對個案討論但是我們希望從本案擴展到整體的空軍飛行安全到底還有哪一些問題跟值得檢討的地方"},{"start":32.748,"end":56.276,"text":"首先有關於飛行員在失事之後甚至是殉職以後的調查一般來說我們都希望有一個真相而不是今天攻擊明天忘記可是我想要問一下2018年我們有一位F16的無性飛官在演習當中殉職那部長請問這個事情調查報告都完成了嗎在台北法院這邊審理是已經結案了嗎還是經過了什麼樣的一個過程"},{"start":57.523,"end":84.03,"text":"委員好 空軍司令部參謀長在這邊做個回答107年這個案子目前分成刑事的部分目前還在還沒有做一個結案為什麼因為高檢那邊還有一些案子還在做一些釐清但是整個是你們以機密為由沒有提供相關資料還是不是這樣子這是一個自由時報的報導因為如果是假的訊息的話那給你們一個時間跟機會來做澄清"},{"start":86.331,"end":111.864,"text":"謝謝委員給我們這個機會那我們空軍司令部都是按照軍事機關對司法機關的這個機密要件的這個申請的要件全部都提供而且在第一時間我們就配合檢調甚至監察院的調查都全數提供這是應該要做的事情但是我們看到自由時報他做了這樣子一個獨家那寫了說沒有癥結的原因是因為你們不願意提供資料"},{"start":112.344,"end":138.673,"text":"所以相關該澄清的該否認的那我認為必須要做到否則對於其他的非官甚至說出意外的大家都會覺得說難道難道這不需要給予相對應的調查嗎這是第一個事情請你們來做一個澄清跟說明再來有關於這個防撞地系統的部分我在去年的12月15號的時候就問過了那今天顧部長也有提到那能夠安裝完成的時間應該是2027年對吧"},{"start":143.083,"end":160.842,"text":"現在預估就是2027年以前全數安裝好 那請問一下昨天記者會為什麼又說的是2028年呢你們知道昨天空軍記者會講的是2028年不是2027年我昨天看記者會的時候就覺得很奇怪我們不是12月15號的時候都已經講好是2027年了嗎請問一下實際的時間"},{"start":164.366,"end":179.151,"text":"跟委員澄清一下這個全案是在2028年所以說他可能是針對鳳展專案全案但是針對裡面的個案AUTO-G CAS這個部分那個時候他問的就是在AUTO-GS嗎就是他就在問防撞地的系統嗎"},{"start":180.251,"end":205.963,"text":"是新聞都是這樣報的啊全案我回去也問了我們專長他說在全案是在所以我告訴你喔等一下我還會再講你們記者會昨天說錯很多資訊今天有一個機會讓你們好好來更正第一個要更正的事情就是這個防撞系統你預計就是2027年要全數完成對吧因為如果到時候跳票的話我還要再跟你追究啊所以時間點要講對不要一下2027一下2028啊是好"},{"start":209.266,"end":223.922,"text":"那再來就是呢因為我覺得你們如果連這麼重要的公開時程記者會上都是錯的那再來你們說這個2018年就要採購了可是呢這個到現在都沒有到貨你說是系統升級的問題上次問過了"},{"start":225.444,"end":245.586,"text":"可是對我來說這些都是藉口為什麼因為已經6年到7年的時間我們完成不了一個美軍2015年就全面裝設的系統本來就應該是要追根究柢而不是雙手一攤那另外請問新購入的F16V是不是它出廠就已經會內建這個防撞系統"},{"start":246.26,"end":268.638,"text":"花委員 兩個問題跟你做一個很快的回答第一個 F16 BLOCK 拐動這個是全數位所以出廠就會具備 Auto GKS 功能第二個 為什麼 BLOCK 兩棟它要這麼久的時間因為美軍到今天它的 BLOCK 兩五三棟也是類比式的飛超系統到今天跟我們是同步在進行沒有一點 Delay"},{"start":269.338,"end":288.894,"text":"他的飛機到現在一架都還沒上機進度跟我們是一模一樣的但是問題是你從2018年到現在是一個6到7年的時間我剛剛為什麼要順勢的去講F16V的問題就在於如果今天他的系統沒有辦法解決這個問題他還在做還在做測試等等的"},{"start":289.614,"end":312.768,"text":"那如果我們原本F16V的66家按照其成你在這個2025年的新聞裡面就本來提到說我們去年本來可以收到10家的F16V但現在全數都延宕了我的意思是這兩個方案嘛一個方案就是我們裝了防撞地的系統"},{"start":313.268,"end":338.268,"text":"但沒有辦法做到 另一個方案就是我們新採購的F16V能夠交貨 我們就會至少有一部分的飛機 戰鬥機是有防撞力系統 但是也沒有交貨所以它就是一個延宕沒有交貨的問題這一點國防部真的是應該要去好好的去追蹤 我問一下今年上半年我們預計能夠拿到多少的F16V"},{"start":340.394,"end":353.606,"text":"這個我們跟美方持續在努力還是沒有答案 又過了這麼好一陣子了 還是沒有答案您也看到新聞在去年年底它的是華是非都已經完成了是啊 所以我現在問你說我們預計上半年如何嘛我們預計上半年 欸 你在2025年的時候可以告訴我們2025年9月的新聞說我們下半年 就是去年齁可以大概拿到10架左右"},{"start":365.737,"end":376.605,"text":"那結果呢又過了一陣子了然後又延宕了我現在再問那今年上半年預計可以取得多少價還是回答不出來還是沒有答案這會讓大家覺得那請問一下我們買了我們買了這個戰機都沒有到貨"},{"start":381.468,"end":404.189,"text":"然後上面明明就出廠就集裝防撞地系統對我們的飛安有很多的幫助而且不只這一項有很多的飛安系統都有升級那我不管你今天是一架兩架三架最起碼對我們國軍來說都是一個新的安全的保障那我現在問你上半年我們預計能夠接貨多少的F16V還是沒有答案 是嗎"},{"start":405.148,"end":421.176,"text":"包委員我們也非常重視這個飛安的問題那整個飛機交機他的安全也是我們最重視的所以說現在整個飛撤的部分持續在進行我如果說今天跟你報了一個數字明天沒有做出來你不要這樣講你們之前就報數字了你們之前就報數字啦2025年有沒有報數字有嘛為什麼我們會說有實價那也是你們報的數字啊以前就可以報數字現在又不報數字說是因為飛安了"},{"start":432.901,"end":437.242,"text":"我當然知道非安很重要啊但問題是你們過去報數字報得這麼漂亮結果全部延宕之後現在我再問你了你又不報數字了你這樣子你覺得交代個過去嗎這才是一個問題嘛年底時價已經完成所以好 完成了那所以今年上半年這時價會到貨嗎"},{"start":449.246,"end":465.371,"text":"它完成組裝但是還要陸續進行所以還是不確定嘛我再跟你談論這個也沒有答案委員報告一下就是說第一架的飛機它要進行的測試據我了解它的項目會比較多所以如果第一架的測試都比較順利的話第二架的交機"},{"start":466.191,"end":469.836,"text":"這個大家都知道的事情就不用多談了我問的就是上半年嘛到1月7號為止生產線在線組裝已經有56架這個有46架的單座機跟10架的雙座機所以你的意思是說上半年如何呢"},{"start":481.048,"end":494.772,"text":"我們現在就是要看它第一架整個的測試的一個結果所以你跟我講了40幾架但是它第一架都還沒有完全的測試完畢那就跟沒有講一樣好不好所以這個部分還是要跟美方再去催活最後我要問一個問題主席再給我一點時間"},{"start":497.173,"end":525.566,"text":"就是呢因為大家現在都非常關心國防部的新措施有關於國軍在文件當中本來連LINE上面都要標明什麼無啊密啊結果在軍人的反彈之下呢取消了只有通訊軟體的部分剩下都保留所以我們昨天記者會看到一個很荒謬的現象報告完畢 無我們今天的這個書面報告也都是但是我先跟各位講說你們的軍方自己內部資料你要怎麼寫是怎麼一回事我今天探討的是"},{"start":526.747,"end":541.538,"text":"所有的文件包含記者會嗎舉例來講你們昨天在這個初步調查後面寫個5一般民眾看到只會覺得是怎麼樣沒有調查嗎還有什麼事件經過後面寫個5大家覺得是怎麼樣沒有調查嗎人員基本資料姓名每一個後面都寫一個5你今天都已經是叫做記者會它就是一個公開的"},{"start":550.524,"end":569.878,"text":"所以如果你真的要寫你PowerPoint第一面寫的其實就是一樣的你每一面都寫這個除了讓基層軍人在那邊一直打然後讓大家看不清楚然後不清楚到底你們發生什麼狀況之外到底有什麼好處啊不知道你會講一下這個政策到底就是說你們只取消了LINE的這個通訊軟體的部分請問"},{"start":571.579,"end":587.342,"text":"是不是未來就你們內部的資料你要怎麼寫這是你們的事但是公開對外就是你對外不可能有機密你有機密你就不會公開做一個記者會了嘛那你還要這樣子每個都寫5嗎誰不知道他會寫5啊簡短說明一下好不好"},{"start":588.123,"end":605.749,"text":"跟委員簡短報告一下精準和密或者精準標示精密是美軍行之有年的作法美軍他只有做建議而已他並不是強制性的我去看過了那份文件了我們國軍為了跟美軍要進行實質交流建立共同圖像這是必須要做到的基本功"},{"start":606.289,"end":629.518,"text":"我問一下他們的classified unclassified是寫在前面還是後面美軍的做法您在網路上都可以找到相關的案例就是說他的公開資訊就會標示U就等於跟我們標示50一樣的他寫前面還後面他寫在前面對啊那你寫後面是什麼意思這個我想當然不一樣意思這當然也是重點這對於很多人在識別這在很多人識別這件事情的時候當然很重要"},{"start":633.902,"end":652.248,"text":"美軍的公開資訊也會標示U嘛U就是Unclassified對 但他只是建議而已他並沒有要求一定都要做那只是suggestion我看過那一份文件他就是一個suggestion但你現在是連報告完畢都要寫一個他們現在整份文件的機密整齊也另外"},{"start":653.909,"end":676.668,"text":"會標逐頁逐段也都會標示機密等級公開資訊就會標示U這跟我們標示5是一樣的那這樣子的一個做法我想是跟國家機密保護法的精神是一致的不一致你國家機密保護法你是律師耶要經過整個過程的核定請問它經過了什麼樣的核定了我們內部就有一個核定的程序"},{"start":677.368,"end":699.701,"text":"你這個都是走國家機密保護法的程序嗎每一樣都是嗎今天的報告裡面也是嗎今天的我們的公開的專案報告裡面你也有走過國家機密保護法的相關核定程序嗎什麼時候進行的對外公開的這樣子的一個資訊我們就會進行討論那對作業的人來講他就要去評斷這一段到底是屬於機密"},{"start":699.841,"end":711.08,"text":"我們在所有的機密保護法裡面不管是一般文書處理手冊或是國家機密保護法都有在密等上面的解密期限請問如果今天上面寫的是密的話那你有沒有解密期限"},{"start":711.823,"end":719.687,"text":"有啊有那可是不是你都是寫無啊我的意思就是說既然無就是沒有啊我告訴你這問題在哪裡好不好我知道你的意思但是今天你就是一個公開的記者會了你就不可能有任何機密然後你還要在每一段上面然後又寫一個無"},{"start":730.973,"end":741.402,"text":"這就是讓大家覺得很好笑你今天事件處理過程無報告完畢我跟你講你覺得不好笑全台灣人民看到都覺得很好笑所有的軍官都覺得莫名其妙只有你大副部長覺得不好笑大家都覺得很可笑的事情我說了你內部的文件要怎麼寫是你們的事情但是你們要思考到的是公開的記者會那是否還有這樣子的必要"},{"start":758.976,"end":765.781,"text":"否則你不用取消LINE啊你LINE的事情你就繼續幹嘛你剛剛講的這麼大聲覺得你都對那LINE的事情為什麼要取消呢通訊軟體上面欸 美根 吃早餐沒我吃了漢堡蜜你不是都本來要這樣寫嗎那為什麼要取消呢就是因為知道說這個太擾民了嘛"},{"start":777.569,"end":783.717,"text":"所以我說了你們內部的資料要怎麼寫交給國防部你們專業決定要如何跟美軍借過都可以但是公開的這種記者會已經是確定是公開的請你寫一個大家就知道了嘛 好不好讓民眾能夠清楚的看懂記者會的內容才是最重要的事情 謝謝薛委員的意見表達完整那請國防部就記者會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}