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Tahovecahe等19人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員林月琴等17人擬具「大學法第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.907218750000002,"end":10.392218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.98284375,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.20159375,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.51784375,"end":17.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.45846875,"end":35.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.767843750000004,"end":40.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.986593750000004,"end":43.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.48846875,"end":47.213468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.69471875,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.44971875,"end":48.242843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.91784375,"end":49.710968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.031593750000006,"end":51.820343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.938468750000006,"end":59.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.072218750000005,"end":69.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.89346875000001,"end":88.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.51909375000001,"end":91.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.01659375000001,"end":92.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.04596875,"end":93.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.95284375,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.79909375000001,"end":118.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.88159375000001,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.00221875,"end":145.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.60096875000002,"end":132.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.18659375000001,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.38909375,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.77284375000002,"end":140.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.55659375000002,"end":148.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.41284375,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.17159375,"end":174.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.75534375,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.06284375,"end":176.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.74159375000002,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.35159375,"end":197.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.23221875000002,"end":202.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.07096875000002,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.46784375000001,"end":260.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.40784375000004,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.60596875000005,"end":264.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.42409375,"end":266.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.97659375,"end":267.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.07784375,"end":275.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.22409375,"end":283.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.68346875000003,"end":281.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.46784375000004,"end":288.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.34909375,"end":286.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.45846875,"end":292.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.45784375,"end":292.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.43659375000004,"end":293.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.17909375,"end":308.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.55034375,"end":296.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.92909375,"end":302.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.22346875,"end":312.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.31596875,"end":310.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.01159375000003,"end":314.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.37846875,"end":315.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.77471875000003,"end":319.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.13284375,"end":320.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.68971875,"end":327.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.98846875000004,"end":336.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.09784375000004,"end":328.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.63659375000003,"end":342.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.96471875000003,"end":345.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.77846875,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.12846875,"end":361.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.29096875000005,"end":380.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.10221875,"end":382.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.63346875,"end":387.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.81846875,"end":408.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","st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有請蘇次長有請次長委員好"},{"start":16.547,"end":35.308,"text":"好 次長好喔剛才聽到這麼多委員的一個心聲就知道大學法已經20年沒有修了那因應到少子化網路的發達跟AI的一個影響包括的是國際的競爭這部分剛才聽到次長說"},{"start":36.81,"end":59.293,"text":"教育部一直都有在準備就修大學法對不對是的好對是的好我們一直在找出最大的共識出來對但是希望能夠推動今天我要跟大家講這一份剛才朱次長你所做的口頭報告並不是現在大家知道的昨天在10點鐘發給大家的版本"},{"start":60.134,"end":88.757,"text":"那個版本今天口頭報告的版本事實上是今天早上還最新才出現的跟昨天晚上10點鐘的版本是不一樣的最大的部分在於調適的不同他有在做檢縮的部分那這個部分在於說教育部其實在這個部分是慢慢的在做檢討慢慢的才呈現出最後是才趕不上了最後拿出來一個版本就是在做今天這個報告這部分這是確定的"},{"start":89.757,"end":117.648,"text":"這一個我就跟大家講的是另外我們也同意公司學校的性質差異還有包括的是大學自治他現在所謂校園民主是非常重要的還包括多元參與是重要的既然剛才 朱市長你已經也說了你們都一直在持續在準備那現在看起來是只差了是不是1月22 23號要進行的大學的校長的會議就只缺這一塊"},{"start":118.961,"end":145.796,"text":"公文報告我們因為有口頭報告跟正式的書面正式的書面有應該有23頁到24頁他就比較詳細的去做說明所以版本並沒有不同沒有你們連不是你們連連次連的那個部分重點的部分那個條式等等你不是照著那個原來的順序去進行的這部分我確認因為大概只有我一個人是完全把它看完的所以我可以這樣說那我現在回答這個問題就是是"},{"start":146.776,"end":164.216,"text":"1月22 23我们部里面目前跟大学的想法是说我们在22 23的校长会议之后把校长会议上针对整个委员的提案我们做一些跟校长们难得有这个场合聚在一起大家做一些讨论之后"},{"start":164.736,"end":176.462,"text":"校长的意见我们就会由教育部分别再来跟不同的团体包含学生跟教育团体做完公认之后找出一个有共识的包括你们今天的版本也是各个"},{"start":177.779,"end":201.769,"text":"意見團體的意見的彙整而不是你們本版的意見這跟昨天國教署所呈現出來的他們已經看過各個委員的版本之後也把意見各個團體的意見彙整之後他們提出來的他們高國教署的意見這個是一個國教署看起來是一個負責任的做法那昨天的這個條件就經過大國教署的一個說明大家都知道在"},{"start":203.137,"end":215.444,"text":"偏鄉地區的學校發展條例當中就已經有蠻多的共識了對我們未來修法就很重要可是到目前為止高教師20年來的對於大學法的修訂卻還沒有就是他現在還在彙整那我剛才問到1月22、23"},{"start":218.405,"end":239.821,"text":"你們對大學校長的意見團體回來說你們還在就又在說跟其他的部分會者所以如果你是這樣講的話真的是叫你們教育部裡面就是出現到高教師就是一個沒有擔當的一個單位那重要是現在是不是可以給個時程我今天就是要給時程如果是因為你剛才說應該是只缺到是大學大學校長的部分對不對"},{"start":240.481,"end":264.238,"text":"因為你們持續的對學生團體的部分對學校的裡面的治理你們有一定有關已經有些關注而且包括像大學的學生自治的這個要點你們都有些引導對不對表示你們做啦但是卻沒有一個擔當再把這樣呈現出來是不是可以給一個承諾就是1月底之前有一個自己的自己的部的建議版本會出來"},{"start":265.978,"end":292.1,"text":"跟我們報告我們認為比較周圓的做法是說在2023大學校長會有一些討論之後大學的一些期待我們可以再來跟相關的團體做個最後的確認那最後的確認要多久你要請問你要說多久請你拿出市長還有高教師廖市長的一個這樣子一個責任或是高教師市長是不是能夠回應啊"},{"start":294.336,"end":318.507,"text":"我們是期待我們是期待是說如果以2023出來我們再去做溝通去會診的話你們要有時間性是不是能夠在因為我們今天已經巡打是不是能夠在下個會期我們有機會你們在2月沒有沒有你們2月還有上班時間啊2月還有上班時間嘛對不對2月就下個會期了對但是我說好這個最重要的是你還是說出來時程就對了"},{"start":320.825,"end":345.342,"text":"我們是期待說因為委員跟同學都有很高的期待你們就是這樣子真的是跟柯市政委員說的從第九屆到現在已經超過十年的時間了就沒辦法這樣做成事件真的是讓人家非常的失望好 那我就回到這邊來好了這樣怎麼畢業沒拿到出來我們現在回應到的是在校務會議上面還是回到校園自治的這個內容啦"},{"start":346.86,"end":360.029,"text":"在校務會議當中學生的部分他的一個召開的門檻你們召開的門檻尤其是臨時的校務會議當中只要五分之一就要五分之一可是學生目前是十分之一嘛 對不對那這一個"},{"start":362.33,"end":385.707,"text":"尤其是學生是非常重要的部分如果他連包括很重要的一些提案重要的包括的是學生宿舍發生問題還包括停車餐飲的問題等等的有出現問題的時候他都沒辦法去做提案那這樣的話事實上是沒辦法去達成一個很重要的一個反映學生的意見那對於提高學生的這個門檻你們對於什麼樣的一個看法"},{"start":387.881,"end":417.101,"text":"跟委員報告我想這分兩個層次啦就是說學生在校園內遇到任何問題絕對不可能只等到校務會去解決啦學校的學務處各個單位就應該要積極的協助同學來處理我想這是第一個那如果有真的需要有整個學校的一個共識或學校決議才會需要提到校務會議對 但是你應該承認吧學生是非常重要在學校的一個發展當然非常重要發展方向上面是不是這部分你是不是覺得應該放寬有這個方向嗎"},{"start":418.101,"end":446.342,"text":"那現在就是說如果真的學校在第一次的處理在優先的處理之後有需要提到校務會議做討論目前校務會議我們剛才 我剛才也報告過學生能夠讓同學有獨立的提案權這塊是教育部的努力的目標至於臨時校務會議的召開因為它是只在刺激到整個學校的狀況可能由學生直接來單獨提召開臨時校務會議這個機制在可行性上面我們要跟學校做討論因為目前來說"},{"start":448.46,"end":462.786,"text":"大學開臨時校會的情況不多我們當然希望說能夠學生的問題如果沒有辦法在當下學校處理的話需要動到校務會議來做處理我想這都是很重大很積極的下一步我們當然也會希望學校能夠不過"},{"start":463.987,"end":479.347,"text":"據我了解學校開臨時校務會議大概除了除了真的有那種我現在只是重點是要提案權的這個要保障啦是這部分這部分我們就往下看另外的在教師在校務會議上的"},{"start":480.328,"end":501.224,"text":"全體的會議人數它不到二分之一啦尤其是就算教師但是很多是兼的行政職變成是一個行政會議的延伸變到校務會議當中去那應該我們本黨的主張是說包括應該要有二分非行政職的教師跟學生的代表這邊要超過到一半那教育部的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":502.485,"end":529.747,"text":"這個方向其實在111年那時候我們曾經有一次也在審議大學法其實委員們的建議也是朝這個方式進行那我們跟大學目前的了解是說可能要顧及到有一些實務的狀況因為有些學校它的專任老師是沒有那麼多沒有兼行政職的沒有那麼多因為學校小 行政單位多一個老師可能都要身兼好幾個行政職了這是第一種情形所以要考慮到學校的規模第二個要跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":530.828,"end":545.543,"text":"有些老師他並不願意他並不是那麼願意能夠來出任所謂的有些老師是比如說他被推選的時候他就系主任他不是學術主管代表可是就是被學校老師推被系裡面老師推出來所以你可以把它編成說"},{"start":546.644,"end":562.74,"text":"有些是属于学校的行政主管的部分而不是属于行政主管那部分这不能做错区分大家可以看得出来差别吧我想学校在意的就是说我们把那个游戏规则讲清楚考量到每个学校跟老师的意愿的不同我们可以来做处理但是不要有"},{"start":563.72,"end":588.012,"text":"不要就是一條線一隔一切好 這個意見就請你把他帶到大學校長會議當中好 謝謝那另外的我們看到的這個下面一樣來這樣講的好了那另外在公立大學的校長的臨選的部分呢有政治力的介入我們看到以台大的管中敏校長頭出現的當初被檢舉中國大學在中國也多所堅持論文涉及超嫌 立委迴避等等就影響到台大565天沒有正式的校長"},{"start":590.973,"end":608.964,"text":"那這個原因就在於說在校長的公立學校校長裡面當中呢有五分之一的代表是由教育部來指定的那這個地方就呈現到會有政治意志的介入到裡面去這邊是不是可以請教"},{"start":610.208,"end":624.639,"text":"所以我們就為了影響 減少這樣的一個影響性啊絕對的是剛才說的 校務會當中的這個比例當中對於公立校 我說的是在公立校長的遴選部分啊 應該所謂教育部的比例也是應該適度的在降低啊"},{"start":625.526,"end":644.4,"text":"那尤其是又是全部的包括的是只要是教育部的這個主管的部分的比例能夠降低那其他的包括因為還有校友還有學生學生這邊不也是要增加嗎對不對因為看到你們現在的一個態度是學生可能到至少一到兩名這個方向你支持嗎根文報告"},{"start":645.971,"end":671.952,"text":"我們支持老師跟學生代表可以參加臨選委員會讓整個臨選委員會更多元那可以超過二分之一以上嗎至於多少比例我想還是要回歸到目前整個校內的狀況因為以目前來講是五分之二是由校務會議推薦校務會議本來就有老師代表 行政同仁代表但是五分之二就不到一半啊大家會算數學啊"},{"start":672.652,"end":673.414,"text":"其實根本報告當時大選法在94年在設計上領選的時候是"},{"start":679.574,"end":699.69,"text":"立法院的討論就是刻意不讓任何一方能夠過半才會五分之二 五分之二 五分之一但教育部事實上不到五分之一因為我們是剩下的餘數大概都只有六分之一 甚至七分之一所以當時是刻意設計說大學校長會不是選舉 它是臨選那臨選強調是代表性不是說誰要過半來主導整個校長"},{"start":704.053,"end":720.398,"text":"所以的意思是說他如果是可以各方的部分的影響各方的有多元意見的話那這樣子選出來的校長就是符合大家的共識的校長因為是校長臨選不是校長選舉啦當時在整個大學跟立法院共識94年是朝這個方向在行"},{"start":720.438,"end":739.289,"text":"但是我們可以看到的是就算是教育部有五分之一的這個樣子的或是說剩下的餘數等等但是你可以看到在管州米校長這個事件當中政治歷史在介入的是太大了結果讓全國的最高的大學的學府出現到沒有556年沒有正式的校長在進行根文報告這個問題我們其實管校長"},{"start":741.73,"end":769.836,"text":"的問題主要是在資訊揭露的部分所以在這個案子之後目前的校長臨選我們對於候選人跟臨選委員之間的資訊揭露利益迴避我們做了非常嚴密的規定至少從這個案子以後到現在這個過程中大概就已經都把這樣的可能性都排除所以我們這也變成一個指引嗎或是說要我們臨選辦法裡面有做了規範我們會後可以把我請人事處整理"},{"start":770.436,"end":799.462,"text":"提供给委员做参考针对利益回避跟资讯揭露的部分好那我最终再回应一下因为刚才郭玉琴委员做了一个很好的一个说明就是说你们对一项包括对青年的就是所谓大学生的学生参与对不对在自治的参与校务会议或是说各种的学校的事务的治理的部分还有关于民主治理因为说你们有做相关的盘点对不对这部分我觉得应该提供给我本席需要这部分好没问题我希望也跟教文委员都给因为这个才是最终大家可以知道说目前"},{"start":800.402,"end":827.603,"text":"教育部尤其是高教師這邊對於大學的治理進行到什麼狀況因為你的資訊不透明甚至我建議這些部分應該把它放到這些資訊應該放到在網路上面因為昨天的話跟高教師對 跟對那個國教署也針對的是在偏遠地區的學校的資訊的揭露部分也是說要有個像儀表本的方式讓他知道我希望如果尤其是高教師本身就是負責高教業務也能夠把這些相關資訊目前的進度不然我們真的不清楚而且就證成說"},{"start":828.664,"end":855.047,"text":"大家都可以从头变成说大家从头再去针对这个议题来做一个讨论的时候就没有一个基本的资讯然后也没有基本的知道你们也许你们做了蛮多的也是蛮好的嘛对不对所以这会非常重要的这可以承诺吗我们来整理目前我们对于大学的相关正式修法体的一些议题目前已经在做的或是已经有什么成果的或是像行政命令的部分可以呈现出来可以吗大概什么多久"},{"start":856.288,"end":884.754,"text":"因為你們持續在做對不對因為我們剩下兩週的時間我們整理一下目前修法我們已經有在做幾週 所以一月底是可以完成是嗎兩週 兩週那兩週 OK 好謝謝 謝謝各位OK 好 我想大學的自治大學的自治是非常重要那大學本來就是基本法應該就是要有一個方向尤其是高教師特別是整套是在整個管理或是說從事治理上面的大學自治是非常就是以及是高學歷的人他這邊應該是比較有一個方向性的"},{"start":885.094,"end":910.187,"text":"就不應該像其他的就是別的署這邊都已經有做到這樣子的一個功能的話他的作用我想也期許啦那個高師長廖師長廖師長還有這個朱市長這部分在你監督的業務方面把這樣的一個氣墮氣魄跟一個方向呈現出來教育部應該有的因為他就是一個指標性的一個部會好不好謝謝委員指導我們會來努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝劉主任"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}