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欢迎订阅"},{"start":1206.561,"end":1207.312,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":1782.842,"end":1785.06,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1819.807,"end":1825.611,"text":"來要開會囉要開會囉"},{"start":1837.122,"end":1853.594,"text":"來請組密報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員13人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思錄及報告事項第二案及第三案預算解凍共計29案請宣讀"},{"start":1856.256,"end":1870.463,"text":"第11屆第三會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議事錄時間114年5月19日星期一九十四分至十二十二十二分地點紅龍101會議室初學人林大亂等14人列席委員郭玉琴等9人列席人員農業部部長陳俊記"},{"start":1873.188,"end":1893.479,"text":"公平交易委員會大理主任委員陳志明等主席蔡昭舉委員予以報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄決定 確定二 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等18案一 農業部函位114年度中央政府總預算決議減重該部一般事務費預算凍結200萬元書面報告案二 減重農業部一般行政預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案三 減重農業部農業管理預算凍結2億元書面報告案四"},{"start":1902.103,"end":1913.369,"text":"減送農業部社會保險業務預算凍結100萬元輸命報告案5減送農業部農民服務業務預算凍結100萬元輸命報告案6減送林業及自然保育署及所屬違犯費預算凍結200萬元輸命報告案7減送林業及自然保育署及所屬林業發展預算凍結2000萬元輸命報告案8減送"},{"start":1921.873,"end":1940.946,"text":"農村發展及水土保持署 水土保持發展預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案9 減送茶及飲料作物改良廠 農場南遷之環評等先期規劃預算凍結500萬元書面報告案10 減送漁業署及所屬漁業科技研究發展預算凍結300萬元書面報告案11 減送漁業署及所屬漁業管理預算凍結500萬元書面報告案12 減送漁業署及所屬漁業發展"},{"start":1946.71,"end":1970.5,"text":"預算凍結一千萬元輸入報告案 十三 減送動植物防疫檢疫署及所署動植物防疫檢疫管理預算凍結五百萬元輸入報告案 十四減送農業金融署農業金融機構管理預算凍結兩百萬元輸入報告案 十五減送農糧署農糧管理預算凍結三千萬元輸入報告案 十六減送農田水利署農田水利發展預算凍結五百萬元輸入報告案 十七減送農業部綜合規劃預算"},{"start":1972.782,"end":1992.28,"text":"動結1000萬元書面報告案18 減送農業部業務費預算動結450萬元書面報告案決定第1案至第18案書面報告均已送達預算均得以動之擬拒報告提報院會3 處理2014年度中央政府總預算有關公民交易委員會主管預算動結案等6案1 公民交易委員會函"},{"start":1993.622,"end":2006.615,"text":"為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送第二幕第三節法務及行政救濟業務預算凍結50萬元書面報告案二減送第二幕第四節綜合規劃及宣導業務預算凍結50萬元書面報告案三減送資訊業務及經濟發展產業資料管理預算凍結80萬元書面報告案四減送第二幕第一節"},{"start":2013.602,"end":2042.13,"text":"公平交易業務限制競爭行為調查處理預算凍結100萬元書面報告案5.減充第二幕第二節不公平競爭行為調查處理及多層次傳銷管理預算凍結50萬元書面報告案6.減充第二幕第五節針對擬定及國際交易業務預算凍結100萬元書面報告案決定第一案至第六案書面報告經與送達預算均得以動之理據報告提報院會討論事項一審查114年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管"},{"start":2043.131,"end":2044.64,"text":"預算凍結案等12案1 農業部"},{"start":2046.34,"end":2075.478,"text":"函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減重該部業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案談判事項合併詢答農業部部長陳俊濟及公民教育委員會代理主任委員陳志明報告後委員林大化等16人提出質詢均由農業部部長陳俊濟及公民教育委員會代理主任委員陳志明等積極答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢詢答結束委員林玉玲林大化及邱志偉所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":2076.278,"end":2094.227,"text":"書面質詢和問及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內書面答覆並複製本位二 農業部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部農業科技研究發展預算凍結2000萬元專案報告案三 減送農業部建置我國寵物管理及產業健全發展計畫預算凍結10%書面報告案四 減送農業部補助農業特"},{"start":2100.779,"end":2121.853,"text":"特别收入基金预算冻结5亿元专案报告案5.减送农业部农民保险业务预算冻结1000万元专案报告案6.减送林业及自然保育署及所属业务费预算冻结30%专案报告案7.减送农村发展及水土保质署业务费预算冻结10%专案报告案8.减送渔业署及所属业务费预算冻结30%专案报告案"},{"start":2122.734,"end":2127.818,"text":"9.減送動植物防疫檢疫署及所署 優惠預算凍結30%中案報告案10."},{"start":2127.818,"end":2131.761,"text":"減送農糧署及所署 優惠預算凍結30%中案報告案11."},{"start":2131.761,"end":2135.684,"text":"減送農田水利署 優惠預算凍結30%中案報告案12."},{"start":2135.684,"end":2144.471,"text":"減送農田水利署 農田水利快遇整合永續發展計劃預算凍結10%中案報告案決議第一案至第十二案均同意動之 拟據報告提報院會"},{"start":2145.932,"end":2161.097,"text":"2.檢查114年度中央政府總預算有關公平教育委員會主管預算凍結案等二案依公平教育委員會函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢証業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案2.檢証第二幕第一節第1、3級產業獨佔結合及聯合行為之調查處理預算凍結100萬元專案報告案決議第一案及第二案均同意動之擬拘報告提報院會散會報告事項"},{"start":2176.345,"end":2185.502,"text":"二處理114年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等事務案一經濟部罕為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢証"},{"start":2187.839,"end":2195.287,"text":"該部水電費預算凍結200萬元書面報告案二檢送產業技術師政策研究與推動計劃預算凍結5%書面報告案三檢送投資促進師延攬外國專業人才預算凍結200萬元書面報告案四檢送資訊處數位應用與資安韌性預算凍結60萬元書面報告案五檢送"},{"start":2209.728,"end":2222.154,"text":"經濟部一般行政預算凍結100萬元書面報告案6.檢送投資促進師促進投資預算凍結500萬元書面報告案7.檢送產業技術師研發測試場域整建計作業預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案8.檢送產業發展署工業技術升級輔導預算凍結3000萬元書面報告案9.檢送產業發展署"},{"start":2244.729,"end":2263.986,"text":"9.減送產業發展署公益管理預算凍結100萬人書面報告案10.減送標準檢驗局及所屬標準檢驗及度證管理預算凍結100萬人書面報告案11.減送資格財產局推動保護資格財產權預算凍結500萬人書面報告案12.減送水利署及所屬水利建設及保育管理預算凍結500萬人書面報告案13."},{"start":2266.508,"end":2294.781,"text":"减送商业发展署促进商业科技发展预算冻结200万元书面报告案14减送能源署能源规划与国际交流预算冻结100万元书面报告案15减送智慧财产局智慧财产权科技发展预算冻结2000万元书面报告案3处理114年度中央政府总预算有关国家发展委员会及所属主管预算冻结案等14案1国家发展委员会含为114年度中央政府总预算决议减送水电费预算冻结100万元书面报告案2"},{"start":2296.162,"end":2304.172,"text":"減送第二幕規劃及推動國家發展計畫綜合業務預算凍結50萬元書面報告案減送第三幕研擬經濟政策協調推動財經措施預算凍結100萬元書面報告案減送第四幕促進社會發展及計畫審議協調預算凍結60萬元書面報告案"},{"start":2315.826,"end":2336.467,"text":"減送第四目建制以資料科學為基礎之社會政策治理機制計畫預算凍結200萬元書面報告案6減送第五目促進產業發展預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案7減送第六目促進人力資源發展預算凍結500萬元書面報告案8減送第七目健全國土規劃及經營管理預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案9"},{"start":2338.309,"end":2362.682,"text":"減送第7目地方創生之協調推動預算凍結20%書面報告案10.減送第7目永續發展計畫之協調推動預算凍結200萬元書面報告案11.減送第8目績效管理預算凍結100萬元書面報告案12.減送檔案管理局第2目檔案管理應用預算凍結100萬元書面報告案13.減送檔案管理局第4目國家記憶深化推廣預算凍結1000萬元書面報告案"},{"start":2365.083,"end":2379.868,"text":"14 減重第6目 研議與協調推動人力資源相關政策及計畫預算凍結150萬元書面報告案宣讀完畢好那我們就來處理報告事項請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤"},{"start":2384.348,"end":2409.985,"text":"沒有齁好那依職務確定那第二個報告事項第二案及第三案分別為經濟部及所屬預算解凍案第一案至第十五案及國家發展委員會預算解凍案第一案至第十四案當時的決議是提出書面報告後使得動之現在書面報告已經送達預算得與動之請問各位委員有無異議"},{"start":2411.286,"end":2420.062,"text":"好沒有異議的話通過那並擬據報告提報院會那我們現在剛剛有收音到嗎"},{"start":2421.926,"end":2444.371,"text":"那我再確定一次就是這個書面報告這個解凍案請問各位委員預算得以凍資有無意義沒有好沒有意義的話就通過那你去報告事項提報院會繼續進行討論事項請宣讀討論事項第一案及第二案"},{"start":2445.766,"end":2457.878,"text":"討論事項 第一案審查114年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等二次案一 經濟部罕為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部業務費預算凍結30%中央報告案二 檢送經濟部媒體政策及業務宣導費預算凍結60萬元"},{"start":2464.905,"end":2470.05,"text":"書面報告案3.檢送產業技術師科技專案預算凍結10%專案報告案4.檢送產業技術師科技專案預算凍結2億元專案報告案5.檢送經濟部建置橋外來台投資全程線上化計畫預算凍結50%專案報告案"},{"start":2483.283,"end":2491.304,"text":"6.減重經濟部業務費預算凍結28%專案報告案7.減重經濟部業務費預算凍結1000萬人專案報告案8.減重國營事業管理師國營事業管理預算凍結30億人專案報告案9.減重國營事業管理師基本行政工作維持預算凍結500萬人專案報告案10.減重國營事業管理師基本行政工作維持預算凍結15%專案調查及究責檢討報告案11."},{"start":2511.808,"end":2518.252,"text":"減送經濟部經濟部辦公廳設新建計劃預算凍結50%專案報告案12減送產業發展署業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案13減送國際貿易署業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案14減送標準檢驗局及所署"},{"start":2529.359,"end":2536.704,"text":"業務費預算凍結30%中央報告案15.減送智慧財產局業務費預算凍結30%中央報告案16.減送水利署及所屬業務費預算凍結10%中央報告案17.減送水利署業務費預算凍結10%中央報告案18.減送商業發展署業務費預算凍結30%中央報告案19.減送中小及輕創產業署"},{"start":2551.178,"end":2560.201,"text":"新創企業署業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案20 減送產業園區管理局業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案21 減送地質調查及礦業管理中心業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案22 減送能源署業務費預算凍結50%專案報告案23 減送能源署業務費預算凍結1000萬元專案報告案24 減送能源署經濟特別收入基金預算凍結20%專案報告案"},{"start":2580.114,"end":2591.225,"text":"第二 審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案等7案一 國家發展委員會為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案二 國家發展委員會"},{"start":2597.475,"end":2604.48,"text":"減送業務費預算凍結1500萬元書面報告案減送第二幕規劃及推動國家發展計劃綜合業務預算凍結28%專案報告案減送第二幕向下規劃國家發展計劃預算凍結30%書面報告案減送第三幕財經新策略規劃研究預算凍結20%書面報告案"},{"start":2620.59,"end":2629.637,"text":"減送第四幕建構完善淨零公正轉型及區域治理推動機制預算凍結500萬元專案報告案7減送檔案管理局業務費預算凍結30%專案報告案宣讀完畢好那我們現在先請經濟部"},{"start":2642.472,"end":2664.683,"text":"本日議程所列討論事項有114年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結共計24案及國家發展委員會主管預算凍結共計7案我們合併報告及詢答那我們現在先請經濟部郭智輝部長就預算解凍等24案合併報告"},{"start":2674.417,"end":2696.25,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家早大院審議本部主管114年度預算所作預算凍結決議計39案本部以分別研擬書面報告送達大院本次會議列有報告事項14案以及討論事項25案以下僅就討論事項之報告內容簡要說明 進行指教"},{"start":2701.874,"end":2725.994,"text":"业务费预算冻结30%本项预算主要系办理智库研究科技专案计划管考及绩效考评国际科技合作及奖项评选推动资讯政策计划与资讯业务相关服务办理吸引桥外商来台及台商回台投资"},{"start":2726.754,"end":2744.486,"text":"协助厂商全球布局等业务以及基本行政工作维持的经费二、科技专案预算冻结10%与冻结2亿本两项预算主要系整合法人研究机构"},{"start":2745.844,"end":2766.056,"text":"產業界 學術界之研發能量推動法人業界學界科技專案計畫研發具前瞻業應用潛力之技術三 推動投資審議智慧發展建制橋外來台投資全程線上化計畫預算被統計50%"},{"start":2770.031,"end":2791.985,"text":"本項預算主要是建置便捷的線上申辦系統及具有資安防護之審議系統等以簡化業務申辦程序及全面發展橋外來台投資線上申辦審議業務是一般行政業務費預算凍結28%與一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費"},{"start":2793.226,"end":2808.893,"text":"预算冻结1000万本两项预算主要系本部基本行政工作维护所需费用以支援本部主管业务推动5.国营事业管理基本行政工作维持业务费预算冻结500万与冻结15%"},{"start":2811.107,"end":2838.682,"text":"本兩項預算主要系本部國營事業管理司基本行政工作維持所需經費以支援該司業務推動六 一般建築及設備營建工程經濟部辦公廳設興建計畫預算凍結50%本部辦公廳設限制各棟建物老舊維護費用逐年攀升亦不符合智慧及綠建築特性"},{"start":2839.582,"end":2861.891,"text":"又所屬部分單位在外租借辦公廳設需訂支付租金原有新建辦公廳設置迫切需求七媒體政策及業務宣傳費預算凍結60萬元本項預算主要是為確保民眾可透過多元管道了解國家重要經濟政策保障其相關權益"},{"start":2863.615,"end":2876.149,"text":"八 國營事業管理預算凍結30億本項預算為本部國營事業管理師統籌督導本部所屬事業之經營管理業務及基本行政工作維持等所需經費二"},{"start":2879.513,"end":2896.565,"text":"產業發展署議案業務費凍結30%本項預算主要系配合政府產業政策辦理協助產業低碳化智慧化高質化及發展半導體AI軍工等重要業務所需輔導及行政工作擴大半導體生態系與競爭優勢強化國內半導體材料與設備供應鏈"},{"start":2900.228,"end":2926.863,"text":"引领产业升级转型3.国际贸易署议案业务费预算冻结30%本项预算主要推动我国参加2025大阪世界博览会经会以办理展馆及新建工程及营运等工作目前已如期完成展馆新建并于114年4月13日开幕4.标准检验局所属议案业务费冻结30%"},{"start":2928.366,"end":2948.391,"text":"預算凍結30%本項預算主要辦理國家標準制定檢驗業務規範商品檢驗行政與管理發展再生能源檢測能量度量衡管理及檢定以推動商品安全業務及計量管理制度確保產業良性發展及維護消費者權益"},{"start":2952.031,"end":2979.597,"text":"智慧財產局兩岸業務費凍結30%本項預算主要系提升專利審查效能辦理專利商標及著作權保護完善數位環境之建構與營運並提供創新發明推廣服務協助企業優化佈局策略綿合優秀人才以促進產業創新及提升制裁保護能量二"},{"start":2981.027,"end":2996.973,"text":"智慧財產權科技發展制預算凍結2000萬元本項預算主要系為建置完善的檢索及審查資訊系統以確保專利與商標檢索及審查之效能提供更健全之智慧財產權保護數位環境"},{"start":3002.01,"end":3018.225,"text":"6.水利署所屬兩岸業務費預算凍結10%本項預算主要辦理強化區域供水安全與穩定降低淹水機率提高防洪韌性及完備智慧防災應變機制等水利建設計畫之行政經費"},{"start":3020.066,"end":3039.45,"text":"二水資源開發局維護自來水工程業務費預算凍結10%本項預算主要系自來水工程管理業務所需費用以資源推動偏遠地區供水改善等工程第七商業發展署一案業務費凍結30%本項預算主要系協助商業服務業發展"},{"start":3045.231,"end":3068.449,"text":"以穩定經營並協助企業提高獲利能力創造額外的附加價值強化員工生產力促使員工薪資成長第八中小及新創企業署一案業務費凍結30%本項預算主要是以協助我國中小微企業數位轉型淨零轉型及部件通路以強化中小微企業的經營韌性就"},{"start":3071.724,"end":3087.91,"text":"产业园区管理局所属一案业务费预算冻结30%本项预算主要是维持园区基本运作园区开发及管理及营造优质营运环境以促进产业及经济发展"},{"start":3089.66,"end":3108.804,"text":"10 地質調查及礦業中心一案 業務費預算凍結30%本項預算主要是辦理地質及礦業科技發展 地質調查及礦業管理業務所需11 能源署三案 業務費預算凍結50%本項預算主要是辦理高雄海洋科技產業創新園區沙崙智慧綠能科技廠維運培訓"},{"start":3116.277,"end":3130.317,"text":"离岸风电人才国际能源双边合作电价及费率审议行政作业基本行政工作与资讯管理等业务二能源科技计划再生能源环境健康"},{"start":3131.348,"end":3147.808,"text":"建構業務費預算凍結1000萬元本項預算主要是辦理高雄海洋科技產業創新專業營運沙崙智慧綠能科技城委託專業服務等案等計畫提供各場域的運維"},{"start":3149.835,"end":3176.03,"text":"协助链接各计划研发成果打造绿能产业高质化推动平台及培训离岸风电各项人才等三非营业特种基金经济特别收入基金预算冻结20%本项预算主要办理住宅家电效率升级计划家户屋顶设置太阳光电加速计划等"},{"start":3176.75,"end":3197.017,"text":"用於輔助住宅、汰換老舊家電推動設置加護屋頂太陽光電設備以加速推動住宅部門節能減碳及提升太陽光電設置普及率由於本部各項施政計畫預算均系配合國家發展編列"},{"start":3200.138,"end":3226.445,"text":"業務實際需求 懇請各位委員會與支持並同意相關經費之動之必利各項業務推動 以上報告祝各位委員生理健康 處事順利好謝謝我們郭部長的報告那我們下一位請國家發展委員會高仙貴副主任委員就預算解凍等七案合併報告那請報告"},{"start":3231.734,"end":3258.876,"text":"主席各位委員親近 大家好大院審查本會及所屬檔案局的114年預算的解凍案 總共有21案我們已經把研擬的報告送到大院我們緊究討論的四項的七項其中有兩項是合併為一幕來說明第一個是有關大院關切我國進行推動進展以及部分永續目標"},{"start":3260.037,"end":3282.768,"text":"的進程然後凍結我們的業務費百分之三十我們簡要說明事實上我們已經在一百一四年一月提出了新的台灣的國家制定減碳的目標然後將二零三零年的目標建為二十八加減二比上次的二十四加減一來得更有企圖心而且擬定了台灣總體減碳行動計畫那務實達成二零五年的進營目標"},{"start":3288.311,"end":3301.424,"text":"那其實我們本會114年編列的業務費是為了推動國家發展的及機關基本的運作所需那所以這些執行情況良好所以恳請這個"},{"start":3303.866,"end":3324.646,"text":"大院的進行解凍那第二呢是有關大院關切我們國發基金投資聯合再生的相關事宜那事實上國發基金投資聯合再生以後除了要求公司定期的提供財務報告並控告董事會的運作強化公司治理外那另有關"},{"start":3326.507,"end":3353.786,"text":"經濟部的光電標案還有國防部的光電標注案我們已經函請主管機關釐清公司作為是否有符合契約的規定那至於本會的114年一般行政跟基本行政工作的業務會是為了維持本會基本運作所需都為本會共用的共同性的經費所以卻有必要"},{"start":3355.523,"end":3383.818,"text":"那第三是有關於大院決議請本會因應財化法就應移轉回歸地方自治的市權項目進行說明那事實上本會的指導主要是做國家發展之規劃協調審議跟資源分配等業務沒有涉及地方的自治項目那另有關遣隨市權移轉的原則中央承接的省府業務應該回歸各地方政府辦理一案"},{"start":3384.298,"end":3411.755,"text":"那本會承接的中央的青春的核心的業務也未涉及地方的相關的事務那第四呢是有關於呢大院決議呢對本會有關於壯世代我們擔任壯世代的主管機關應積極協調目的事業主管機關來解決高齡的問題那事實上衛福部已經修正高齡社會的白筆書也提出了因應高齡社會"},{"start":3413.052,"end":3437.437,"text":"的對策方案 這些方案的內容可由各相關部會積極推動中 那我們也請這個大院可以就我們重協的案件 重協的預算進行解凍那第五是有關於大院關切我們編業的促進社會發展及計畫裡面的公正轉型的進程 那本會作為"},{"start":3438.777,"end":3462.564,"text":"推動進行公正轉型的業務我們的專責單位其實我們已經成立了跨部會推動小組跟公正轉型委員會等機制協調各部會解決政策推動的課題那112年起我們已經召開五次會議我們規劃安排在114年7月11月分別再召開第六跟第四會議而且我們已經辦理了43場的公眾協商那"},{"start":3465.768,"end":3480.76,"text":"其實面臨行政院改組我們已經依照國家希望工程的經營轉型的願景我們已經初步規劃了國家公正轉型的架構我們預計在今年年底會提出公正轉型的行動計畫跟成果報告"},{"start":3481.901,"end":3501.196,"text":"第六有關大院關切檔案局部分計畫跟工程效率的事宜我們的國家檔案館其實已經在113年12月30日完工然後在114年2月7號取得使用執照在今年第四季會啟用其實檔案局預算的"},{"start":3502.444,"end":3528.72,"text":"編列的業務費呢它主要是推動國家檔案館的整備還有國家檔案徵集跟開放的事宜那相關的預算金何時編列卻有其必要那以上說明呢敬請各位委員先進呢支持那有關解凍案部分呢懇請同意解凍然後碧麗本會及所屬的檔案局相關的施政業務可以順利的推動以上報告謝謝"},{"start":3533.223,"end":3557.174,"text":"好謝謝我們高副主委那我們現在就討論事項合併詢答分開處理委員執行權原例做以下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員4分鐘必要時的延長1分鐘非本會委員3分鐘上午10點截止發言登記那我們現在先請登記第一位邱益穎委員發言"},{"start":3568.617,"end":3570.342,"text":"謝謝主席我請一下這個國發會來請國發會副主委"},{"start":3576.751,"end":3592.315,"text":"副主委早副主委這個本來我今天是想要問一下你們主委的這前兩天總統在520的就職週年的記者會上面宣布了一個新的重大政策就是未來台灣要成立主權基金由國發會來統籌設計這個將來要作為整合政府跟民間資金的國家及產業投資平台"},{"start":3599.858,"end":3615.679,"text":"這是一個相當重大的政治經濟投資的這樣的一個宣布副主委我想知道一下國發會在這個部分參與的程度到哪裡我們來先看一下其實"},{"start":3617.841,"end":3640.464,"text":"主權基金已經不是一個新的概念很多的國家都在做最著名的應該就是新加坡的淡馬錫所以我們把它稍微整理了一下新加坡、南韓、挪威、沙烏地、阿拉伯、中國甚至美國現在也開始在推動所謂的主權基金那台灣的外匯存底是高達5828億美元這是全球第四"},{"start":3641.707,"end":3659.506,"text":"照理講我們其實應該是非常有這樣的能力跟機會去成立這樣的一個主權基金那未來在賴總統的這個宣誓之後我比較想知道一下國發會在這一件事情上面到目前為止你們的規劃程度是到哪裡"},{"start":3660.467,"end":3686.923,"text":"主權基金跟我們現有的國發基金跟產創會不會有互相焊隔之處要怎麼樣的區分我先簡單請教您這幾個問題我想謝謝委員的詢問我想我第一個要釐清的就是說其實總統有宣誓要成立主權基金那可是那個主權基金的主責單位現在我們還是要等待行政院"},{"start":3687.783,"end":3700.59,"text":"商議後再決定誰會是主責的單位所以但這個應該會找你們國發會有做先期的討論對不對對那我要再說明一下就是說當然如果是行政院指定是我們我們當然也責無旁貸"},{"start":3702.731,"end":3721.567,"text":"那我们只能跟委员报告说的确我们在主权基金我们在陈前院长的时候因为有立委提到我们也曾经召开过相关的部会召开过两次的会议对我知道这个过去上一届的吴新颖委员曾经提过这个概念而且她也非常的积极的在推动所有的主权基金"},{"start":3721.707,"end":3746.993,"text":"那我们的确在那两次会议里面有针对这个资金的来源设立的目的等等进行的讨论可是因为那两次的里面其实有很多的部分其实还没有一致的共识你是说你们最近的讨论里头吗应该是说所以在整个主权基金的设置两年前的那个你说的是两年前那最近的讨论我比较想要知道就是说"},{"start":3747.893,"end":3764.21,"text":"我們未來的這個所謂的主權基金的設立我們是不是會參考新加坡的模式還是會參考所謂的這個南韓的模式或者是以什麼樣的模式去進行那對於現有的國發基金"},{"start":3765.39,"end":3786.292,"text":"的投資方式跟處理模式主權基金跟國發基金未來你們要怎麼樣做一些區分那其實主權基金的設置其實我們先知道幾個課題第一個就是就讀這個委員所說的他的設立的目的在哪裡那目前大概是有一些是財務型的就是他是否"},{"start":3787.072,"end":3805.76,"text":"要讓國家財富可以提升的增加的一種是策略型的完全是策略性的投資要強化整個國家的這個產業的競爭力等等的那有的有些是財務跟策略型mix的也有那每個國家會是他的政經情勢他會設立他設"},{"start":3808.021,"end":3821.593,"text":"主權基金設置的目的是要採取哪一種型態那我覺得這個也會可以值得我們討論那目前我們國發基金基本上是屬於策略型的投資我們國發基金就是要扶植產業創新轉型是因為根據產創條例如果說我們現在的國發基金是屬於比較策略型的投資的話"},{"start":3829.58,"end":3856.3,"text":"那未來的主權基金它會不會是比較偏向財富型或者是財富跟策略並進比如說我們去投資美國現在包括這個我們部長一個多禮拜前才剛從美國回來我們有很多重大的投資跟美國的這些採購啦跟美國的投資方案會不會也會在你們的主權基金裡頭去做一些相關的討論那未來整個主權基金的治理"},{"start":3858.484,"end":3880.451,"text":"應該會用什麼樣的模式基本上我想總統已經宣布了其實上應該是主權基金跟國發基金是並行的主權基金跟國發基金會是並行所以一個會比較主內一個會比較主外所謂的主內就是說國發基金大概會比較偏重於在國內的市場那主權基金會比較偏重於在國際的市場"},{"start":3883.132,"end":3895.446,"text":"會是這樣子做這樣子比較簡單的區分嗎我只能跟委員說這些這些剛剛您說的這些我們都還在討論當中就是還是要請行政院才能做定案"},{"start":3896.633,"end":3924.142,"text":"好 所以我今天其實也問不到什麼東西啦這個副主委我想這樣啦我比較想要更深入了解一下就是到目前為止政府單位在主權基金這一塊的規劃進度假如可以的話是不是可以給本席一些基本的你們現在的一些規劃進度不屬於機密的部分可以讓委員們了解的部分是不是也可以讓我了解一下好嗎 好 謝謝"},{"start":3929.206,"end":3946.594,"text":"好 謝謝邱委員 那要拜託邱委員幫我代理一下好 謝謝 我們現在請張祺凱委員發言"},{"start":3975.589,"end":3978.891,"text":"來 請郭部長委員長 這個517啊 非核家電以後 非核家園以後大家都在關心 我們的電成本增加了 變貴跟變髒的問題今天我要先給你看一個畫面 來 我們先看這個 這是"},{"start":4005.859,"end":4033.289,"text":"517啊 河山場二號機停了之後19號台中深夜12點的畫面中火深夜燒煤炭 煙霧瀰漫部長看了應該也是有些擔心的這個畫面真的是非常的驚悚現在開了第一槍出來抗議的是台中企業啟動"},{"start":4035.129,"end":4054.791,"text":"盧秀燕 盧秀燕提出非常具體的事證她證明說 在飛河加鹽的前一天跟後一天就是前一天到後面一天 中火的發電量 全部都燒沒了喔中火是台灣最大的污染源 它燒沒"},{"start":4056.038,"end":4081.889,"text":"增加了50%他直接講了一共一般講有10部這個機組有一部在維修其他的9部機組火力都全開這不是只有台中人受到影響喔在附近的中華南島 嘉義 昏林整個都受到影響了我看台電還一直認為沒有問題可是呢我們看下一張"},{"start":4083.373,"end":4106.592,"text":"台中市的環保局長跟盧修緣就拿出了非常具體的證據他講說中火啊他把時間點都給你看了中火10步這個燃煤基礎9步有上限其中有8步開的都是超過9成一直持續到20號的下午下面這個話最重要請大家一起來看看"},{"start":4107.861,"end":4123.01,"text":"你看 河山廠停機前16號中火 就是台灣最大的污染源他燒 用的這個煤炭一天3.23萬噸結果17號停了以後當天就跳上來了跳到4.03萬噸的煤炭18號稍微緩了一點點19號竟然攀升到4.64萬噸這多恐怖的事情"},{"start":4137.415,"end":4163.111,"text":"一天喔 就是非核家園以後光是一個中火 一天多了1.4萬公噸的煤台中人跟整個中部地區的民眾用會發電 健康受到多大的影響好 那我們現在往南部看中部之外 南部的議員跑出來講"},{"start":4164.909,"end":4193.436,"text":"說高雄啊新達三號跟四號的燃煤基礎你明明去年許可證明已經到齊了啊在飛河佳園貨的三天你又偷偷地打開了高雄人何辜啊不只是中部的民眾用廢在發電南部也受到很大的影響我可以這樣講在民進黨推動飛河佳園之後"},{"start":4195.083,"end":4221.305,"text":"前臺灣空汙越來越嚴重這是我們現在要正視的一個很嚴重的一個問題好 接下來我要談一個也是非常嚴重的問題除了汙染增加了影響到我們人民的健康跟生命安全之外我們的電到底夠不夠呢賴清德總統第四月二十九號啊說我們的電夠啊"},{"start":4224.431,"end":4244.57,"text":"他還特別講他說全國民眾啊你可以上台電的電力即時資訊你去看一下我們的備載容量啊就是我們備用的一個電都在10%以上我們就上去看了結果發現5月4號就被打臉了"},{"start":4247.321,"end":4256.184,"text":"總統在4月29號接受財信的專訪說我們所有的電力備載容量電視過的都是10%以上不到五天不到五天就破功了那一天降到6.846.84多恐怖就從綠燈已經轉到黃燈了再下去6%以下就是橘燈"},{"start":4273.735,"end":4302.195,"text":"橘色的燈就是隨時有可能系統性的限電的我進一步給大家看一下總統的票票大家看一下這是台電的資料我幫他做一個統計這是每天的備產容量的熱量看下一張光是四月份總統票票的10%就有11次五月份到現在為止也有7次"},{"start":4303.41,"end":4331.821,"text":"在4月10號的時候 降到5.37一直沒有10%欸5.37代表什麼?已經進入了橘燈 橘燈叫做什麼?供電警戒 就是系統的限電限電的機率已經增加了再往下降 隨時就要找電了可能就要大停電了所以我剛剛一直講 一直講下來我們的污染增加了 空污增加了我們的電力"},{"start":4334.051,"end":4343.487,"text":"沒有像總統講的那麼充裕電力顯然是不夠的部長 所以在空屋跟電力上面我們是要做一些想辦法解決問題"},{"start":4348.797,"end":4377.456,"text":"可能委員說明其實整個年度我們如果從這個2016到現在所有的空污的問題台電其實是一直在做降低的動作包括剛才提到的台中的電廠南美的用電量南美的用量我們整個南美的發電量也都在降那剛才委員有提到10%其實台電對外已經一再的強調那是在日尖峰 夜尖峰它必須要超過7%所以你剛才提到所以總統叫我們隨時上去看"},{"start":4379.777,"end":4403.95,"text":"是不是而且我講的不是只有晚上喔很多尖峰時間特別是那個太陽一下山的時候老實講現在幾乎是每天傍晚只要太陽一下山那個太陽能一下子不見了我們要配個容量車快速下降馬上喔馬上6月份下季馬上就來了對不對用電高峰就來了喔"},{"start":4405.211,"end":4429.017,"text":"所以政府有責任你既然配了核電第一個空屋不要再增加因為我們廢發電影響我們健康第二個不要讓我們大停電喔電力一定是要過的總統講話已經被打臉了嘛對 數據非常清楚嘛空屋的情況台電一直都持續在降啦光是台中部分就是在降了昨天啊 傍晚你怎麼說那個時間昨天傍晚啊"},{"start":4431.606,"end":4456.831,"text":"為6點就太陽大概差不多下山後沒多久6點50分一直到7點50分昨天的傍晚這個小時啊我們備載容量差不多都只有7%就是再降下去就是已經從黃燈黃燈就是已經吃緊了啊綠燈就是總統講的綠燈就是供應充裕對不對到了10%以下就是供電已經是吃緊了"},{"start":4458.732,"end":4474.844,"text":"大部分時間在供應吃緊了到了下面就是集燈供電已經上有警戒了已經快到警戒的地方了昨天晚上有長達一個小時都只有7%是 都維持在葉建峰7%以上我給大家看一下那個空屋的統計齁"},{"start":4486.688,"end":4507.933,"text":"這個是中興院的資料過去八年啊行政院跟政府一直講我們的空汙是這樣的可是呢過去八年我們的碳排增加了多少沒有少欸還反而增加了80萬噸這多嚴重的一個問題好"},{"start":4515.492,"end":4540.661,"text":"我們請部長跟台電注意三個事情第一個 廢核517之後 我們電價 電力的成本已經變貴了不要隨便漲價從內部趕快去作為改革第二個 空氣污染變嚴重了第三個 電力的穩定度已經下降了"},{"start":4543.602,"end":4567.134,"text":"請好好面對問題幫人民解決問題不要讓人民第一個用配發電而且電會是升高的謝謝好謝謝張祺凱委員的發言好接下來我們請林黛樺委員發言好有請國發會來請國發會高副主委"},{"start":4573.005,"end":4599.356,"text":"好 班西想要來跟您討論這個生技產業它是我們策略產業5加2當中之一要去特別扶持的也期待它成為復國神山那當然我們現在正正是支持生醫產業成為兆元產業在今年2025年生測會年會我們賴總統有講了我們進入超高齡社會如何強化醫療跟科技"},{"start":4600.737,"end":4621.156,"text":"來推動生醫產業希望能夠成為半導體之後的下一座護國城山而賴總統本身就是醫生總統治國總統醫生護民所以他特別對於健康政策無論是在提高癌症篩檢率建立百億癌症新藥基金三高房子888計畫"},{"start":4623.058,"end":4639.941,"text":"或全民心理健康韌性甚至這個要大幅提高這個健保總額推動5年489億的健康台灣深耕其中我們的癌症篩檢率跟百億癌症新藥的基金就是跟精準醫療來高度的連結"},{"start":4640.882,"end":4666.772,"text":"好 那這個精準醫療對於生技產業 既然生技產業是五加二之一那到底他的這個機會跟挑戰在哪裡呢這個挑戰台灣 爬出一下台灣的生技產業從食品的化學產業一直走到生技的藥品開發一直到今天 今日的細胞治療跟精準醫療生物科技業可能會試射人的生命 所以發展新產品"},{"start":4667.492,"end":4671.095,"text":"跟藥品的時間壟長投資人期待獲利的時間也就長了而且同時也面臨法規資金人才技術的挑戰所以造成我國的生技業這個像你說的高獲利的同時卻害怕我這個失敗的高風險"},{"start":4688.63,"end":4708.134,"text":"好但是那機會在哪裡呢這個研發重點是在於從廣泛人群的暢銷藥是供應者藥商的導向現在因為基因科學的進步不同的個體在基因層面上的差別性可比被凸顯所以在精準醫療的風潮之下製藥業者已經從大規模的生產暢銷藥的模式逐漸改變為開發針對特定使用群"},{"start":4715.495,"end":4739.823,"text":"或是特定個人的個體的專用藥需求導向所以市場轉變從供應者導向到注重這個需求者導向也就是真的從我們的病人來出發了那這樣的話會有需要市場的變化需要什麼樣的這樣的專業來投入呢第一個基因和生物標記的研究第二個要加強檢測所以分子"},{"start":4742.445,"end":4752.499,"text":"檢測包括本席一直倡議的基因檢測第三基因地區第三醫院第四科技業者這四個因為市場的轉變他們不能單一的獨立運作必須緊密的結合"},{"start":4758.567,"end":4776.244,"text":"好那這樣的一個生技產業對於我病人需求者出發有什麼好處三個第一個檢驗時間變短第二個檢驗成本變低第三提供病患客製化的醫療服務什麼叫做檢驗時間變短我只要一個人體人類的一個基因定序"},{"start":4777.245,"end":4799.604,"text":"一天一個人我這樣的一個基因體的整個全身上下的定序過往要十年啊才能完成人類基因定序啊現在基因定序加上鑑別式的AI我只要一個人八小時我就可以完成了檢驗成本變低了從過去每個人次數十萬降到三到五萬甚至目前我一萬塊起跳含檢測跟"},{"start":4801.025,"end":4820.592,"text":"報告我們提供這個病患從病患的這個人體的這個基因地區當中去檢視了協助了醫生做什麼事可以從病人當中是不是有遺傳變異跟新陳代謝的關係或者識別染色體的疾病跟單基因疾病這種遺傳性或者是罕見疾病等"},{"start":4822.012,"end":4845.026,"text":"都可以來做一個更好的研判那當然也可以提供預防性的這個基因的檢測跟預防醫學的使用所以重上生技產業發展的跨領域從剛才的跨單位誰要去執行那這跨領域的專業預防醫學基因檢測人工智慧這還有後續的醫療跟藥物的匹配"},{"start":4845.686,"end":4871.831,"text":"好那國發會作為這個要輔導這樣的產業包括您現有的這個工具有什麼局限性呢生技產業屬於高風險高報酬的產業國內投資人對於這樣的投資高風險的產業他的專業知識是不足的所以傳統投資慣性是什麼還是要求他你一定要用有形資產但是生技產業他花了最多的錢就是在什麼研發"},{"start":4873.091,"end":4894.049,"text":"創新智慧財產權許可證這種的無形資產它的價值認定就困難了所以呢但是呢現在講到你的國發基金你的這個投資的工具的你剛才有講到做策略性的投資好我們就來看這個策略性的投資你相較民間的投這個創投業者我只要投資成功率20%哇這已經創投界的明星了"},{"start":4897.371,"end":4912.342,"text":"就是說我思考案件有兩個成功 上市上櫃 八個失敗哇 這已經是創投協的高手了但是國發基金是什麼 要要求每一個都要完美啊每一個投資案都不能失敗 容錯率很低啊原來期待國發經濟做我們中小企業的天使現在變成是我們國發經濟是民間創造什麼 追隨者"},{"start":4919.046,"end":4933.118,"text":"導致你國發基金現在要策略主要目標福祉5加2多組新創跟中小型的企業都會被忽略掉所以生醫產業是具備高度的專業性跟法律規範就現行的這個工具生技產業無論在補助審查藥證核發投資輔導等都被特定的學法來壟斷而面臨跨領域跨學科跨專業的新型態的產業"},{"start":4946.889,"end":4949.634,"text":"我們就缺乏了跨領域、跨專業的審查機制這就是你們的窘況對於生技產業的無形資產的價值的認定以及你們現在審查機制缺乏跨領域、跨專業"},{"start":4962.213,"end":4985.518,"text":"那現在呢既然無形資產無法成為金融擔保品好那對於中小型的生技業者面臨的融資需求金融機構是不認列無形資產的但是生技產業多數的價值存在於研發創新智慧財產許可證這種無形的價值其實政府也有做一些事情啦他就真的是建立起無形資產的建價機制"},{"start":4986.778,"end":5013.392,"text":"允許這樣的無形資產列在企業的財報上但是當這生技業者要去融資的時候不好意思那是你財報是你的事情擔保品我是不認的所以還是要求這樣的生技業者不動產價要提供不動產的價值啦擔保品成數與流通數啦在償債能力啦或應收賬款等有形價值所以至此無形價值無形資產價值就是參考而已好我幾以農業就好"},{"start":5015.533,"end":5039.645,"text":"農業生技產的生技業者農金屬很棒喔他提出了一個叫農民組織及農企業產銷經營及研發創新代管做什麼事情補貼利息所以呢如果我這個農業金庫譬如說這樣的金融機的單位他當然要承受受限風險農業金庫要求農業生技業者說還是提供不動產做抵押"},{"start":5041.346,"end":5046.327,"text":"而不接受農地產生技業者的研發專利無形資產來作為擔保可是他花最多精力 錢 時間就在研發專利所以這根本啊 繞道市場所以你這480幾億的先行希望呢 我們政府投資的部分所希望帶來的造業的產值那他這當中的民間的投資生技業者投入的時候你怎麼幫他解決問題啊 火災還是零啊所以這邊具體要求兩項"},{"start":5070.111,"end":5083.298,"text":"第一個請國發會邀集財政部經濟部農業部對於無形資產的評價交易跟稅務的認定建立起完整的保證機制請公股銀行是對應財政部信保基金對應經濟部農業金庫對應農業部的調整"},{"start":5088.241,"end":5092.283,"text":"這些單位的對無形資產的保證機制調整他們而且建立起這樣的機制之後調整各部會的作業規範將專利及無形資產給予保證以利生技產業資金融通第二個你的審查機制請國發會協調衛福經濟交通國科會等相關單位在相關的補助審查核定你們現在都採外部學者擔任審查委員"},{"start":5116.934,"end":5121.778,"text":"但是本席認為不應該集中特定的學校跟學會我現在講的這個是可以說是犯全部了第一個參照經濟部技術師Aplus的科專審查計畫針對學者專家給予案件數的限制跟淪換"},{"start":5132.105,"end":5158.35,"text":"第二個 平衡北 中 南 東等優秀學者進行遴選建立透明客觀的審查機制以遭公信您簡單回應 副主委有關於委員希望我們扮演協調的角色我想我們會召集相關部會來不過我可能要跟委員報告其實我們國發基金我們目前除了投資向台積電半導體外我們績效最為著重的就是我們早期投資的生技產業"},{"start":5159.23,"end":5171.166,"text":"目前都已經有一些回收我們還要再更精進因為要不然480期一直在幹嘛的就是要再往更前端包括無形資產的部分你們要阻力謝謝"},{"start":5185.853,"end":5210.958,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下國發會高副主委還有我們經濟部的郭部長來請部長跟高副主委首先先請一下那個高副主委一下因為賴總統在520談話當中說提到要成立主權基金的部分我想請教一下那個國發會這邊看法是怎麼樣我先簡單講一下因為那個前央行的"},{"start":5213.837,"end":5233.632,"text":"就是彭淮南那個總裁他有特別提到說他反對用外匯存底無償撥為主權基金的使用然後另外財政部跟央行他們都已經跳出來直接講說這個事情不歸他們管我想請教一下國發會對這部分的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":5234.586,"end":5259.473,"text":"我想基本上總統已經宣示我們要成立主權基金那院長也有在院會裡面在那個立法院質詢的時候也明白表示我們會成立專案所以就我們國發會我們作為行政團隊的議員我們當然就是尊重總統跟那個院長的指示所以總統在做這樣的一個宣示之前的時候有沒有跟國發會這邊溝通過我覺得有跟行政院相關的單位溝通過"},{"start":5260.874,"end":5267.803,"text":"為什麼特別提到這個問題因為在113年12月13號的時候立法院曾經請國發會提出主權基金的一個規劃進度報告那麼在今年的1月15號國發會也回函了立法院你知道這件事情嗎"},{"start":5281.579,"end":5301.532,"text":"就我所知我們曾經因為前你知道這件事情嗎 你知道今年1月15號國發會有回函立法院針對國發基金的一個資料我手上這一份非常的清楚國發基金還是對於那個主權基金 對主權基金的一個回覆"},{"start":5305.441,"end":5327.594,"text":"你不知道是不是我直接跟你講在這份資料當中的時候那個國發會這邊很清楚的知道表示說他們邀集了央行主計總處財政部金管會勞動基金運用局公務員退府基金管理局共同討論得到的結論有四項"},{"start":5328.815,"end":5349.034,"text":"有四項結論第一個說國內已經有類似主權基金的機制而且操作績效良好這第一點第二點的時候強調主權基金追求報酬極大化波動風險高第三個部分提到如果需要提高外匯投資比例可以請央行研議"},{"start":5350.475,"end":5372.326,"text":"那麼第四個部分提到國發基金之中已經有類主權基金性質的台三公司正在進行全球策略的產業投資佈局所以結論的時候呢基本上國發會是不認為需要有主權基金的才四個月的時候竟然有發生這麼大的一個轉彎然後剛剛副主委所表示就是"},{"start":5373.567,"end":5401.168,"text":"我們聽不出來總統要做這樣主權基金的宣示的時候有跟國發會這邊先討論過或諮詢過國發會的意思我跟委員報告說因為這是1月15號的所以1月15號我們發函的時候我們是根據我們過去所以四個月就出現了重大變化您聽我講完就是我們有就是爭據我們之前跟各個相關部會我們也討論的"},{"start":5403.349,"end":5426.822,"text":"結論跟那個回覆這個然後我要 可以翻到那四個結論嗎第一個呢 的確 如果 因為整個國發會給立法院的報告很清楚的認為其實不太需要主權基金結果四個月的時候 你講說國發會今天找了這麼多的單位結果四個月之後的時候 總統就做了另外一個不一樣的宣告"},{"start":5427.202,"end":5451.89,"text":"那我想特別問一下部分因為在這個時間點宣告的時候很多國人其實很擔心一件事情因為我們郭部長剛陪我們前國發會的時候我們的行政院秘書長去了美國參加他們SLAC USA的部分的時候那強調要讓美國再次的偉大所以大家擔心是不是主權基金這次的時候要把台灣一些相關的一個基金去重壓美國"},{"start":5453.977,"end":5469.917,"text":"我覺得不能這樣說因為我剛才講到說我們其實主權基金有三個一個是策略性投資財務性投資或是MIX那的確我們說我們現行的有一些譬如說我們的財三啊國發啊或者是市場基金裡面也有一些"},{"start":5471.338,"end":5492.552,"text":"策略財務型投資的那種性質所以我們就會回答說我們國內也有類似的因為你要回答因為我時間有限你如果覺得要針對1月15號你們給立法院的一個主權基金的一個回報要做一個法轄彎的時候你之後再來跟我做一個很詳細的一個說明好不好那因為針對這個部分"},{"start":5494.053,"end":5503.079,"text":"很多國人很擔心這個主權基金是不是變成就像我們讓台積電到美國去就像我們在對等關稅當中的時候我們很快的在整個對美談判當中的時候很快的就貢獻出我們台灣的貢獻處為了要讓我們"},{"start":5510.965,"end":5533.28,"text":"前國發會主委我們國民新秘書長說要讓美國再次偉大我們擔心我們的主權基金是不是要配合這件事情我覺得我們主權基金只有一個目的就是讓台灣的產業競爭力更加的強化所以在之後我們對於整個相關的法所以到時候我們主權基金會是國發會這邊在主管嗎我們要看"},{"start":5534.16,"end":5554.505,"text":"行政院指定誰作為主管機關目前還沒有確定那這個問題剛丟出來我想說您這邊如果對於1月15號給立法院的資料跟你現在要再次對政府的一個政策做一個辯護的時候要怎麼樣轉彎你再跟本辦公室做一個很詳細的一個報告我們會跟委員仔細的解釋絕對不是法夾彎"},{"start":5555.785,"end":5583.684,"text":"然後我這邊我要特別問一件事情就是說因為在這一次就是賴總統的這個一年的報告當中的時候整個市政滿意度當中的時候我發現經濟的議題當中是民眾非常的不滿意的包括TTBS民調當中的時候我對經濟發展跟能源政策其實在整個滿意度當中都非常非常的偏低那麼在進新聞的民調當中的時候呢就是對經濟滿意度的"},{"start":5586.085,"end":5604.531,"text":"比例也是最低的在各項指標裡面最低那因為時間有限我想特別請教郭部長一下因為我們的那個核管法已經通過了那對於現在台電的用電情況因為新達電廠藍莓機組30號藍莓機組現在這個時間點還繼續在運轉當中對不對我請台電跟你說明一下"},{"start":5614.865,"end":5633.181,"text":"興達其實他還沒有除役他去年9月就到期對不對我們送審他在嚴審中他嚴審中的時候呢可是基本上沒有被批准所以當時的時候提到一個狀態就是說當我們的備載電量在8%以下的時候他可以作為緊急使用是不是這個情況"},{"start":5634.362,"end":5662.531,"text":"所以說現在我們的興達電廠30號藍莓酒現在我們在質詢這時間點它還在運作就表示我們現在的備載容量已經在8%左右或者低於8%的情況是這樣子嗎它是在之前我們前幾天預估夜間風有可能不到8%所以它必須運作那機組的特性你運作之後不能讓它上來就馬上停它必須要適用機組的特性讓它慢慢的去做適度的降載所以它必須"},{"start":5663.311,"end":5688.253,"text":"所以這個地方就像我之前幾個禮拜我問到一個大林五號機組天然氣機組的時候也是已經除夜之後的時候現在變成緊急使用然後台電也在使用那現在興達電廠三四號燃煤機組我們這個時間點他還繼續在用然後已經到期了然後你們說你們要研議可是還沒有過的時候呢他現在用緊急使用的時候然後我們現在正在燒"},{"start":5690.467,"end":5711.805,"text":"興達電廠30號燃煤機組那我這邊的時候我要特別跟郭部長這邊提到一個點你現在給我30秒鐘我做一個結論你超過5分鐘了針對這個我們就是核管法已經過了你之前的時候你有跟我提到說我們最快的時候如果行政部門配合跟我們要去訂製新的燃料棒的時候大概需要16到18個月對不對"},{"start":5714.247,"end":5739.815,"text":"所以我在想說我們目前對於這個部分要怎麼樣的去讓台灣的電力其實能夠充足夠用因為德國去年比我們提早一年變成非核家園他們現在出現一個很清楚缺電跟電價高漲的情況他們也開始表示不反對法國他們要在歐盟當中把核能"},{"start":5741.365,"end":5758.516,"text":"提為再生能源這樣的一個主張所以德國的態度也在做很清楚的改變好 那我們希望吼 國務部長這邊針對核管法通過之後我們之後經濟部這邊要怎麼去做我們的能源政策給本席一個很清楚的一個時間點的一個說明 好不好好 我們會參考大家的這個意見啦 請請謝謝好 謝謝我還是要懇請各位委員稍微遵守一下時間我都會給大家多幾分鐘吼 但是"},{"start":5772.281,"end":5790.209,"text":"今天五分 她已經說十分我都會給你們說十分我都要十分 我才會站起來我自己說五分而已今天召委不是我 我是代理的來 請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":5807.697,"end":5830.89,"text":"主席有請這個國發會副主委來請高副主委副主委好這個0403地震是去年4月3號發生非常謝謝陳建仁院長到佐隆泰院長"},{"start":5832.148,"end":5857.151,"text":"到交通部長多次的到這個花蓮實地的去視察但是呢經過了一年多這段時間呢斷斷續續都有一下子就中斷一下子就中斷北回鐵路啊從這個民國80年左右開始通車"},{"start":5859.734,"end":5888.208,"text":"一直到現在只有0403地震當下都還安全的都沒有問題是後來的一陣特別多後來一陣特別多才造成現在一下大雨就中斷5月18號又嚴重的中斷真的是要感謝神沒有發生任何的人員的傷亡跟火車的這些"},{"start":5889.691,"end":5907.666,"text":"都能夠及時的停下來所以這個是非常急迫的它除了鐵路之外也包含了蘇花公路所以這樣的一個情形一年多了這個計畫我也曾經這個質詢過國發會趕快去協調交通部行政院"},{"start":5918.474,"end":5942.194,"text":"諮詢國發會當初彭副主委說好所以這個部分一直到上個月我也諮詢交通部對於這個0403台鐵宜花東地區鐵路設施改善計劃其實何人到何人到這個崇德才一點多公里1.6公里"},{"start":5945.031,"end":5969.203,"text":"我們看這個到現在都還沒有都還在交通部喔這幾天啊 副主委這幾天會送到國發會請國發會把這個計畫趕快送到行政院我們跟原報告那個黃先生跟我說我們已經送到行政院了不是台鐵喔就是剛剛那個計畫你剛剛講的是蘇花安啊"},{"start":5972.672,"end":5988.584,"text":"對 蘇花安你講的是蘇花安這個我每天都在掌控都在追蹤因為我當公務員當過管制考核的公務人員我們來看北迴鐵路北迴鐵路79.2公里5.7公里的新線然後20個大橋16座隧道設了14個站兩個月"},{"start":6001.574,"end":6022.503,"text":"因為颱風謝東敏省主席去跟蔣經國院長報告之後馬上核定然後就動工非常非常快 六年就完工 這麼長的現在科技這麼發達真的是難以想像我們看蘇花安"},{"start":6026.597,"end":6052.538,"text":"108年12月20號蔡政府時代做了可行性研究的核定一直到113年12月9號交通部把這個計畫送到行政院就剛這個有講了當初我也有諮詢過國發會趕快送去你們也很快的送去但是放在院長的桌上五個多月了"},{"start":6055.592,"end":6079.993,"text":"所以这个部分真的要重视继续继续协调好不好我们就我们的执掌我们部分我们会来协助这个非常非常的重要因为台湾真的很小啊然后就这么一小段树花改的工程呢"},{"start":6081.824,"end":6107.855,"text":"兩年了從可行性研究核定兩年就核定的這個新建計劃民國97年馬英九時代都會做比較人民會做比較所以好不好好何況這個書房是比較好做的是當初書花改是比較困難的好不好好是的好接下來這個"},{"start":6111.329,"end":6126.851,"text":"演兵會的原住民族住宅四年三期計畫這114年到117年了我上次也有質詢了上次也有質詢這個就是為了因應什麼社會住宅"},{"start":6128.773,"end":6146.394,"text":"住宅法第二條第四項規定的很清楚要興建裝工研駐營成出的社會住宅到現在都沒有啊105年12月23號修正的這個住宅法到現在都還沒有一個都沒有所以而現在這個"},{"start":6148.274,"end":6176.136,"text":"都會區的差距非常大住宅的自由力所以大部分幾戶都是要承租了所以這樣的一個原住民人口已經達到在都會區51.57%了在這樣一個情形之下地方政府他也希望興建專攻原住民族的社會住宅要依住宅法但是就是沒有錢"},{"start":6177.964,"end":6201.891,"text":"沒有錢在這樣的情形之下所以我上次質詢的時候希望能夠去修正這個3月19號質詢國發會你們那時候也同意同意修正這個原住民住宅的四年三期計劃你們同意所以現在時間很緊迫"},{"start":6205.749,"end":6233.716,"text":"趕快 圓明會也送來了嗎?還沒有嗎?還沒有我們有協調圓明會去規劃這個修很容易啦因為原來已經有這個四年計畫嘛只是把這個社會住宅就是匡列多少錢就這樣而已嘛委員我們再去追蹤一下進度因為圓明會已經有很多經驗了其實最快的是什麼?我在當副主委的時候最快的是什麼?"},{"start":6235.25,"end":6255.987,"text":"編一筆預算公務預算直接買啊直接買嘛集合民間的集合式住宅空的他剛蓋好的對不對也是促進啊對不對所以這個機會很容易如果是要架構那最容易連新建還要花很多時間反正現在空屋很多嘛對不對好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6260.486,"end":6265.288,"text":"好 謝謝鄭天才委員 那下一位請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請部長請部長委員早 部長好"},{"start":6290.918,"end":6305.363,"text":"河山廠的二號機在17號的時候停役那台灣正式進入到了非核家園那我們也可以看到停役了之後呢那麼這幾天我們台中火力發電廠呈現了火力全開17號、18號晚上的中火機組都達到90%的運轉"},{"start":6312.284,"end":6327.109,"text":"而且10部機當中有一部機睡休 剩下9部機是超運轉那台電呢一下子說火力全開是假訊息一下子說不是夜間多發 是日間減發我們很直接的看一下發電量的圖17號跟18號 19號都比去年同期增加大概1000至2000MW"},{"start":6341.073,"end":6342.555,"text":"如果按照台電臉書上面所說的他沒有多發而且還說他是減罰"},{"start":6349.704,"end":6371.833,"text":"但是同期是增加這麼多在這樣的一個情況之下台電到底是真的裝傻還是故意的呢為什麼不願承認中火的發電為什麼要欺騙我們的國人所以我更質疑的是說在台電一直說火力全開是在造謠"},{"start":6373.274,"end":6389.86,"text":"但是我們強調中火10步機已經有超過6年它沒有10步全開 已經有超過了這是大家一直一直一直中央地方大家努力所以在10步機當中有9步火力全開這有什麼好得意的"},{"start":6394.212,"end":6395.333,"text":"站在我們台中 站在我們皇屋的這個立場所以數字會說話5月17號、18號單日的中國藍莓量比去年同日多了0.85萬跟1萬噸的這個莓"},{"start":6412.372,"end":6424.449,"text":"那連最基礎的數據都已經強烈的告訴我們我們還要硬拗嗎我們還要硬拗中火沒有增加發電我們還要硬拗沒有增加負擔"},{"start":6426.135,"end":6436,"text":"台電到底把台中人的健康是當笑話嗎本席再給你一個背景也就是台電在一起的時候 燃氣機組的環評他承諾在非空無際的時候只開九步機所以換句話說台電現在能夠開的就是九步九步全開不是火力全開嗎還要硬拗這個嗎所以事實上我們看到目前為止"},{"start":6455.765,"end":6474.744,"text":"台中的中火因為市府監督環保的限制我們大多運轉部長大概60%但是這幾天為了供電為了補上河山電力的一個缺口九部機組都要超運轉尤其到了晚上"},{"start":6475.925,"end":6495.751,"text":"中國都是增加50%以上的發電量各機組的運轉都幾乎要超過90%一直開到半夜 您看看半夜的天空是如何一直開到半夜的凌晨就是展現這樣子的一個樣態所以本期要請教"},{"start":6499.048,"end":6513.772,"text":"是不是因為預測到會加開這個火力所以過去我們在討論的時候中火機組爭議的時候政府不敢承諾逐年遞減 減煤的數字只有說到2031年才開始減煤但是 本席要說像這樣子 在這幾天中火超高的一個變轉量 燃煤量"},{"start":6529.668,"end":6542.063,"text":"當然會加大我們台中的空污會傷害台中人的健康所以部長進入夏天這樣子的一個火力全開請問部長會是常態嗎會是常態嗎請問部長我請台電跟你回答一下"},{"start":6549.403,"end":6558.628,"text":"是 跟委員再說明啦剛才委員其實有提到台電跟台中市政府配合的情況下請問 針對本席的提問像這樣的情況尤其在現在夏天火力全開這會是常態嗎當然不會是常態啊當然不會是常態 這是你應許的本來就不是常態的 不知道委員本來就不是常態 那為什麼要這樣子呢"},{"start":6575.816,"end":6603.038,"text":"最近幾天其實是因為日間跟夜間的關係剛才委員也提到了日間其實太陽光鏡上來的時候其實我們就可以把南美的往下降那夜間如果太陽光鏡是消失的時候南美基礎最近幾天確實是因為有部分的基礎故障所以他才臨時性的把它往上調那但是總歸都會符合在剛才委員提到的我們跟事務的這個當時的承諾非空氣就是最多就只能你請回我再請部長"},{"start":6604.119,"end":6618.401,"text":"部長 本席要請教一定要跟台電好好的來溝通不要只有用話術要欺騙民眾因為面對數字 面對真相"},{"start":6619.656,"end":6641.027,"text":"要怎麼樣能夠去改革能源的配套不要火力全開因為這幾天的數字讓國人嚇一跳讓我們台中人很憂心很憂心剛剛台電回答是說不會是常態我再次請教珠島單位的經濟部長會不會是常態燒很多的煤會不會是常態請教部長"},{"start":6649.059,"end":6664.513,"text":"我們會來跟台電好好的盤點就按照委員所關心的命題我們會努力你會願意跟台電好好的來盤點跟溝通本席具體強調這幾天的數字讓國人"},{"start":6669.082,"end":6676.105,"text":"非常的緊張讓我們台中人中部地區非常的憂心非常的憂心因為我們強調不要火力全開而且我們強調燒很多的煤我們是拒絕的因為在我們的經濟委員會在任會裡頭藍綠白的委員大家共識決也就是今年的中國減煤量要達到100萬噸"},{"start":6697.853,"end":6700.555,"text":"這是經過我們詳實的討論也出了我們的委員會也出了用會所以我在這邊還是要強烈的拜託部長一定要跟台電好好的溝通中火火力全開我們絕對拒絕中火要燒很多煤成為常態我們也絕對拒絕我們拒絕台中人用廢發電部長你的看法呢"},{"start":6729.505,"end":6753.438,"text":"這個委員的這個指教我們都會留意的你會來留意會不會承諾他不是一個常態他不會燒很多煤請教部長那剛才我想我們台電專業的回答就是不會是常態不會是常態所以委員要相信我們專業一定要好好的去溝通一定要好好的溝通我們也會強力的來監督再請教"},{"start":6756.516,"end":6783.278,"text":"我們增購美的天然氣因為部長在中遊在3月份的時候簽署了阿拉斯加的天然氣投資意向書那據報導美國的阿拉斯加州長他說12號他說台灣您向阿拉斯加採購600萬噸的天然氣因為本行非常的重視我們的能源配比到底要怎麼做才能夠真正的去"},{"start":6783.999,"end":6807.444,"text":"火力不全開那所以我們繼續來討論也就是說他說這600萬噸呢大概是佔阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣管線計畫年產人的三成那對阿拉斯加來說 州長說他是佔了史上最大規模的這個天然氣的採購那請教部長 州長所說的是真的嗎是屬實嗎我還沒有說到這個報告"},{"start":6811.618,"end":6825.455,"text":"你還沒收到這個報告可是州長在媒體上披露的那你這個到底怎麼回事啊為什麼這麼重大你還不知道部長這件事情嚴重哦州長已經這麼說12號今天已經22號"},{"start":6830.171,"end":6855.499,"text":"那部長你說你不知道真的不知道嗎因為我上個禮拜都在美國真的不知道嗎我上個禮拜都在美國好你回答不知道那本席要請教那我們3月份中有所簽的因為您是坑頭整個能源的督導單位那您說這麼重大的竟然不知道州長12號都這麼說了你會去了解但是本席請教真正有沒有這樣的投資計畫有沒有有沒有這樣的投資計畫"},{"start":6860.12,"end":6872.831,"text":"你說哪一個投資計畫阿拉斯加的這個投資計畫阿拉斯加是我們有簽了一個意向書那個意向書是我當場在場的那你在場你怎麼會不知道呢但是這個計畫裡面並沒有講說我跟他買600萬噸是沒有所以我們大家都是很想知道真正的"},{"start":6880.117,"end":6888.086,"text":"我們是有投資的意願嘛這個是意向書嘛沒有具體的這個數字所以州長講的是不屬實的在你目前所得到的資訊我們並沒有承諾要買這600萬噸的天然氣是不是如此"},{"start":6904.011,"end":6931.265,"text":"當然是沒有承諾的嘛是沒有承諾好所以繼續本席還要再請教最後一個議題也就是我們計畫要採購美國的油氣那本席也覺得也聽到您的論述就是說中油可以去購買美油然後我們再提煉完了再賣到菲律賓這一件這個計畫是有在進行中嗎報告委員我們本來就有在買美國的油啦對"},{"start":6932.943,"end":6942.478,"text":"然後您說要這個煉製完我們再賣到菲律賓多元發展嘛 有這個計畫嘛是不是是不是 有沒有這個計畫 是"},{"start":6944.777,"end":6964.566,"text":"這個是我們在討論的一個方向所以還沒有確定 還在評估當中這個公務機關還有不像民間啦 收到就可以做啦不是收到 公務機關要評估啊 有沒有在評估要送到大院啊 你們不同意我們也沒辦法說啊中油購買美油 然後提煉完賣到菲律賓這項計畫 本席請問有沒有這個計畫 有沒有評估"},{"start":6973.471,"end":6979.272,"text":"現在目前是沒有這個計畫因為我們在訊息當中當然一定要問真正的這個主管機關單位才不會以而傳而這個就是本席所提問的目標謝謝所以有任何的訊息我們也希望可以得到真正的這個方向一起為我們的能源配備改革方案來努力"},{"start":6996.616,"end":7025.736,"text":"那最後我給一個功課就是部長我一直在跟你討論的我們就希望說我們要解決台電的財務黑洞那我們的能源配比的方向所以包括本席剛剛提到阿拉斯加包括了這個美油購買的方向我想你也絞盡腦汁怎麼樣可以多元去發展我希望能夠在你們的評估效益當中能源配比的方案給本席一份資料"},{"start":7028.457,"end":7053.152,"text":"這個多元的能源是我們的政策我們會找到能夠讓它的成本能夠不斷的降低這個才是我們努力的方向但是因為綠電是未來在整個世界上面對產業有十足的需求所以我們會用這個方向來努力各種"},{"start":7054.452,"end":7065.576,"text":"各種多元 各種方向 這也是本席一直考慮很多次的能源的配比我們要怎麼樣去改革 去精進 去優化先把這說明給本席 謝謝謝謝楊瓊英委員那我們下一位請陳超明委員質詢"},{"start":7087.813,"end":7098.339,"text":"主席好,首先邀請我們經濟部我們的郭部長,跟國發會我們的高副主委。國發會高副主委。委員好,部長好。外資團條文洋情報委員提問你台電的問題,你說叫我相信專業。"},{"start":7111.889,"end":7124.794,"text":"但是在立法院幾十年裡面,台電本來本身就很專業,但是被政治化所影響,從電價一直起來起來,你不維持電價的上漲。"},{"start":7126.212,"end":7152.132,"text":"你們要表示我執政我的意義,我不把電價上漲,表示我執政很強,但是其實裡面暗藏了很多先驚。所謂台電以前是讓人家結了非常相信的單位,現在講的話不一定相信。我不知道你自己有沒有感受,沒有感受,你體驗到的出現,你應該很了解啦。像你有人說一些白痴話,我們也聽不下去。"},{"start":7153.971,"end":7175.97,"text":"第二點,談到中英跟阿拉斯加,我算數很夠,你說意向是但是無望不起啦,600萬噸要去採購,還有油管配備我們要跟日本、韓國結合在一起去投資你到美國不是談這個事情,你到美國是談我們如何投資美國"},{"start":7177.071,"end":7190.575,"text":"你帶了一百多家的大企業在那邊,你是韜光臺灣,你還不承認我沒有意向啊?你人選了遠道開就很好,但心裡你在說老實話嘛,不可以這樣好來好去啦。回答一下,我不知道你聽得懂嗎?簡單的好。"},{"start":7197.182,"end":7204.909,"text":"報告委員我們帶了138家的企業包括48家新創的企業去美國去參加比賽就是說我們帶48家新創的企業到美國投資美國我們是對新創的企業適不適合在世界的舞台裡面運作"},{"start":7218.321,"end":7225.725,"text":"謝謝你的關心,我們這次10月8日裡面有三家獲得獎我們是在比賽裡面,我們是第二名沒有時間跟你說,你們的姿勢就是執政黨當時我站著頭又痛,這是第一點今天我們叫做解凍,凍結冰就是解凍但是保證,我現在有一個資料"},{"start":7244.304,"end":7270.687,"text":"在我們委員會裡面,三減預算你經濟部本部才三減一百萬產化史、國貿史、中小企業史、智慧史、地礦中心三減預算是零商業發展史、水利史、標檢局、延期管理局、能源史三減預算是零"},{"start":7272.184,"end":7295.571,"text":"這裡面有凍結到經濟部本部三十二億兩千一百二十萬凍結到產花時三千一百萬凍結到智慧財產前兩千五百萬商業發展時兩百萬水利時五百萬標準捷內級凍結一百萬能源級凍結一百萬你補充來你看"},{"start":7302.608,"end":7329.122,"text":"說執政黨的委員對你好那無庸置疑他一定要支持你我們在野黨的委員這種預算哪裡是眷戀啊你知道立法院的形態主席最了解他們都很兇他說要改為動靜以前在宰預算的時候要講預算的時候來我今天要問你動靜跟山頂有什麼不同"},{"start":7334.408,"end":7343.513,"text":"刪減就是直接把這個費用刪掉好啊 凍結是大家比我對這個問題還不瞭解我先把你凍結下來我們再來討論你再來報告我再跟你講一件事書面報告就是要這樣過的全套報告令人困難"},{"start":7355.001,"end":7362.612,"text":"你們現在這個都是講假話你也有行政所長在大罷免案裡面喊話聽到頂真的是一片煩人不然你我怎麼這樣講我們看到很無奈"},{"start":7369.71,"end":7394.304,"text":"你這個預算是刪減包括凍結最少你這樣說我聽好像我們在野黨在求你們執政黨你們的執政黨不要求在野黨就好但這事情要實在 要有良心現在大壩沒辦法如火如荼現在如果講到刪減預算的話就是抗中保台害台沒那麼嚴重"},{"start":7395.595,"end":7410.752,"text":"大家都很善良為台灣這一塊土地你們是無謀不齊啦胡言亂語等於如果你們這個行政使館在上台講話的話你們就是屬於詐騙集團這次了情窮秋色"},{"start":7411.713,"end":7427.171,"text":"我是沒有被罷免成功奧運生意苗栗宣經之所我是來支持我們那些被罷免的三十幾位立法委員國會議員遮緊你娘你的總統也遮緊你娘後來你就被罷免台語算不台"},{"start":7429.912,"end":7439.674,"text":"這哪裡是民主的國家講了實在令人屈服還好你話講得少,我今天讓你過關你真的讓我抬頭說話才會跟你賭,表示你還有良心啦再來,我要跟你抱怨,這次強化經濟地方運送"},{"start":7451.383,"end":7471.481,"text":"其實你不怎麼禁止,這是關稅,這是生意要發展,要保持台灣的產業機能你知道你再拖多少,放到國安會,你支持產業安定就業930億你政治部才拿了750億,還有"},{"start":7474.673,"end":7497.087,"text":"六大面向還有農業三大面向一百八十一本來是要糾正一些不要讓經濟人家恐慌起來結果國土安全日益性一千五百億這個問題也敏感反對叫做什麼抗中保台賣台灣他們會這麼想我第一次把這個問題提出來強調昨天討論這個問題其實預算大家可以討論用在哪裡"},{"start":7505.35,"end":7533.188,"text":"但是我看到執政黨的委員極力的在批評我們在那裡面怎麼要限制性的招標,難怪他們的壞你講人家壞事,我也懷疑你的壞事,大家不要破壞感情底下不要這樣,每一個人可以彈劾心胸來講話一講到美國不好,講到日本不好,就是賣台誰敢讓民主政治那樣在走我是在講出來"},{"start":7534.967,"end":7546.795,"text":"還有我們國家的經濟政策,我希望在你手裡,你要有那種企業的眼光。現在要組織投資美國國家隊,我們總統出來說我們要組織AI國家的資金基金,我們的行政院長又提出AI的十大。"},{"start":7557.973,"end":7578.782,"text":"對於它的十大基礎建設 哈利福哥這樣不知道要靠哪一邊但是部長 AI台灣跟MVRI合作起來還好有這個AI台灣的電子產業一片欣欣向榮真的天保佑台灣不然你現在要做什麼 平板電腦什麼電腦 它已經放棄在地"},{"start":7583.809,"end":7605.644,"text":"所以這是台灣人的怕病,你把台積電創設計都不談這些,你有永遠記得嗎?你說我們AI邊緣的那個應用預算的時候,我們要台灣加強,我們要做到世界第三,你現在是AI資源基金,你是要拿來投資國外?"},{"start":7606.587,"end":7620.854,"text":"我們台灣沒有港幣,錢也沒有多少,極盡的投資國外給別人利用,你為什麼不把這些錢用來台灣的AI邊緣預算,AI的基礎建設台灣最強,使盡求遠,外國生活好壞,外國人就更有公威,你應該把這個錢去爭取嘛,"},{"start":7629.332,"end":7639.01,"text":"你不能搖頭你變成企業實際的在做變成一個政客了還欣賞你以為可以當政治家來講實話"},{"start":7641.465,"end":7660.781,"text":"你跟你說你們的政策脫離中國我們要進入美國不然你把脫離中國看看我不是那樣的現在說起來那筆書又大大你仔細又看好喔說我在賣台我是要在台灣信我們要左右紅顏啦潘瑞丟到那裡看啦不可以這樣啦"},{"start":7662.142,"end":7663.303,"text":"我們這個地方是完全大家的看法是一樣"},{"start":7683.982,"end":7702.33,"text":"AI的邊緣運算我們這個經濟部在我們的技術師跟我們的產發署大力發現在在培育AI邊緣運算的人才我們預定在4年裡面培養20萬的人才有人才才有辦法把產業發展起來"},{"start":7703.51,"end":7723.507,"text":"其他的都是空虛的我就是讀過你要培養AI邊緣運算你要變成我們台灣在AI的軟體裡面變成第三強不敢跟美國爭啊 客氣一點啦但是這個事情要在這裡發揮 那是公本沒有你阿伯你會落後 我跟你說那阿伯是變得很快"},{"start":7725.556,"end":7730.28,"text":"我不曉得中國大陸說這次有編這個預算在這個...好不好 我們真的你來跟台灣登馬步啦阿免說國防預算 不然我再跟你講幾句話大軍未動 兩朝先行"},{"start":7742.189,"end":7755.158,"text":"這個糧草你現在台灣是靠AI這個產業去探險的喔 說得比他聽一千五百會防止中國大陸日軍能打掉 我完全支持那請凱特代理問答謝謝委員支持好不好 謝謝好好 謝謝陳曹明陳委員剛才你如果沒有這麼罵就讓你說你讓我拿菜"},{"start":7769.346,"end":7794.267,"text":"好 那我們等一下謝一鳳委員諮詢完 我們休息五分鐘好 請謝一鳳委員諮詢謝謝主席 我想請國發會的高副主委跟郭部長來 請部長跟高副主委"},{"start":7797.376,"end":7817.122,"text":"人家說這個主權基金的設立是從馬政府蔡政府到現在提出來你就歷經了這三個政府你對於主權基金的設立你有什麼了解為什麼從過去沒有辦法設立"},{"start":7817.964,"end":7842.885,"text":"我覺得過去沒有辦法設立就是基本上社會上沒有一致的沒有共識就是大家對於主權設計的目的資金的來源這些沒有共識這樣子那現在呢已經有共識了有立法了嗎因為其實就目前我們面臨的國內外的經濟情勢來說應該現在是主權基金可以成立的一個應該是一個"},{"start":7845.034,"end":7863.09,"text":"的時機啦因為我們對外其實我們知道我們面對美國的那個關稅的新政地緣政治風險的提高等等的然後其實國內也累積了我們有很好的我們有很好的財政的基礎我們也有豐厚的這個外匯存底"},{"start":7863.73,"end":7880.664,"text":"我們某個程度上在這個時點我們覺得當然主權基金成立它有它的風險性可是就我們這些主客觀條件來評估的時候我們覺得我們現在是可以做主權基金成立的演繹這件事情但是"},{"start":7881.565,"end":7899.332,"text":"央行即便他們現在不持反對的態度但是他們認為不應該無常的使用我們的外匯存訂那對於主權基金資金的相關來源我們現在目前行政院有什麼規劃"},{"start":7900.812,"end":7929.924,"text":"我們現在還在研議當中他是說無償那某個程度上有償可能也是形態之一就是其他的國家也有用有償的方式來運用該國的外匯存底國務部長在你旁邊一直點頭你是不是有同意要投資他們報告委員我想我們在這個發展AI的這個過程裡面大家都知道就是說這個最大的市場是在美國"},{"start":7931.308,"end":7953.177,"text":"那所以這個我們現在因為這個關稅的命題發生了以後我們大家也重新檢討一下我們發展的策略那麼AI我們在台灣我們在發展AI的邊緣應用那這個部分我們做很多但是在這個AI的所謂的發展跟AI的研究這個部分市場還是在美國"},{"start":7954.077,"end":7974.651,"text":"那如果说我们今天在发展这个策业可以从开始就能够关注就能够投资我想对后面的这个加码会有很大的帮助所以我们认为这个AI主权基金的这个设立在当下来讲是非常正确的一个选择是AI主权基金还是主权基金"},{"start":7975.491,"end":7995.139,"text":"過去因為我們現在主權基金其實是對台灣以外地區的投資台灣我們已經有現在的國發基金跟我們的台山這些基金都可以對台灣的這些創新的企業可以投資但是對他們是不能夠投資海外的"},{"start":7995.959,"end":8012.041,"text":"因為我們現在發現市場大部分都在海外的幾個地區去發展所以對我們來講我們的企業有一些企業也會去加入到海外的市場所以我們會對他們來做一些投資我認為"},{"start":8014.27,"end":8042.556,"text":"現在來設立這個國家主權基金是一個非常合適的這個時機但是過去沒有辦法設立就是第一個民眾對於這個主權基金的設立在投資部分大家怕如果給予政府一個授權的時候如果賠了咧如果發生弊案你怎麼防弊"},{"start":8043.556,"end":8069.294,"text":"如果你就是大家也期待啊我们可以跟新加坡的主权基金一样可以赚钱啊但是新加坡的主权基金也有赔钱的时候啊全球的市场是怎么样的赔钱的时候他的经理人就要下来啊是不是那你怎么样子给民众一个监督的机会大家担心啊"},{"start":8070.407,"end":8072.569,"text":"對不對 大家在想說要賺錢 結果錢沒賺到 心療疾耶是啦 我想這都是專業的問題啦 環境跟專業 能夠賺錢跟不賺錢那這個我想我們台灣這些專業的投資者 他們應該是經驗非常豐富啦"},{"start":8089.867,"end":8116.393,"text":"所以我們在這個看以台灣現在的投資業者他們的專業的能力來講事實上他們都有很多人都參與世界的這個投資的機會我們會設立法定會有一些法令然後會來這個設定這個專法那麼有專責管理機構來明定它的各項包括設定的目的資金的來源完算治理跟監理的架構"},{"start":8117.994,"end":8126.747,"text":"會來確保主權基金營運公開透明並符合政策目標所以我再問那個副主委喔我再問一下副主委"},{"start":8128.462,"end":8145.094,"text":"副主委那未來到底主權基金的主管單位是誰對由行政院來決定你們還沒有確定是不是你們的討論裡面還沒有確定是不是央行已經認為不應該是他們所以是財政部還是你們國發會還是經濟部由行政院來決定"},{"start":8148.716,"end":8177.491,"text":"經濟部想要不要行政院主管然後他們來指定對所以還沒確定是的那國發會會不會主動的爭取跨部會嗎你們要振興國內的產業是不是我想行政院會就各部會的執掌跟工人他選定最合適的主管機關那我們基本上就是遵從行政院的決定"},{"start":8178.598,"end":8203.295,"text":"那如果獲利了咧要怎麼樣子分配你說獲利是不是所以很重要就是說我們必須要有一個法然後還要有一個專責獨立的專責機關我就是說確保之前我們大家認為主權基金有可能會產生的相關的一些弊病等等的就要在這個專法還有這個獨立的專責機關裡面這些機構所以是獨立的專責機關也許不在國發會"},{"start":8208.439,"end":8211.924,"text":"也不在財政部 是不是就是說他也會有一個主管機關他會設立一個專責的管理的機構然後有一個專法"},{"start":8221.159,"end":8240.745,"text":"來做相關的規範所以也不確定獲利會不會撥入例如像勞退就是勞工的退休金或者是可以固定的就是把所有的獲利還稅於零我覺得這些都可以在專法裡面去做討論是嗎 是的那我最後還有一個問題請教郭部長現在"},{"start":8243.803,"end":8269.492,"text":"根據中央社的外電法國官員證實了德國的新內閣他們釋出的訊號他說歐盟不再反對將核能視同再生就是他們不再反對核能可以視同再生能源那所以在核能復興的趨勢以及投資能源產業的發展"},{"start":8271.684,"end":8298.513,"text":"我們政府部門是不是還要堅持非核家園因為他們已經把它視為再生能源了是 報告委員我想中央社應該只是片面的了解啦歐盟並沒有發表證明說它是正確的我說德國的德國的那個新內閣這德國的建議是這樣子他們已經認為就是核能是歐盟並沒有確認"},{"start":8300.828,"end":8323.675,"text":"那他們對於淨零碳排的這個就是影響我們等歐盟確認以後我們會納入我們的參考所以要等歐盟確認以後是不是大家只是提一個proposal不代表是已經確定的方式那如果歐盟確定核能是在深圳原的情況下我們會納入我們的參考納入參考會不會再堅持不用核能我們會納入參考經過評估以後再做決定"},{"start":8330.916,"end":8339.866,"text":"好謝謝謝謝好謝謝謝一鳳委員那我們就先休息五分鐘"},{"start":8358.807,"end":8360.468,"text":"今天一定要簽出去"},{"start":8388.137,"end":8393.121,"text":"所以這個是已經確定 都剛好 因為我剛好 這樣就說好 全面的採訪 全面的採訪 全面的採訪 全面的採訪 全面的採訪"},{"start":8417.517,"end":8417.627,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8421.121,"end":8442.875,"text":"1 2 3 就好你懂我意思嗎好 聽到後來我每個設定都標明一個是國際作法然後另外是國內國內的東西是被規劃的就是每次被行政局都提出不法進行所以我第一點我跟憲哥說然後他大概挺拳擊擊的對 自己好然後然後"},{"start":8448.779,"end":8459.967,"text":"所以接下來國內就是說我國的設立我們應該要考量什麼然後我覺得那個設立目的要把我們總統說的那些不是我可能做的如果我撐一撐就做AI這些設立目的"},{"start":8471.275,"end":8487.682,"text":"那另外如果用策略行動可以增加收入等等就是我把前面的說完說完反正都是國際股份那內股有設定問題上次那個股份內也有一面頭腦亂亂不行嗎第二個資金來源也是國際的國際理念就分國際大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":8498.986,"end":8505.355,"text":"然後呢,他先幫你弄一個太陽鏡他是前頭髮的,你覺得髮型是他髮在的還是他外圍的,你懂我嗎?你知道嗎?不要亂講"},{"start":8515.789,"end":8524.191,"text":"我是財政生意,這個要怎麼樣?這是國產,這是國產我國內的企業,是內業當中的然後我們的專業,這個是國產可是這個可能不相同,看起來不相同"},{"start":8545.606,"end":8545.646,"text":"對 就是這邊"},{"start":8568.415,"end":8580.323,"text":"這個就超我妹妹的去看確定地點對 等到裡面有一些東西然後要考慮什麼確定地點如果去跟妳說目的那我就是要看設計什麼然後直接就知道了"},{"start":8598.316,"end":8600.859,"text":"好,我先上去,你放在我这边"},{"start":8613.012,"end":8613.112,"text":"好嘞"},{"start":8646.713,"end":8647.573,"text":"哦 冷凍起雲冷凍"},{"start":8661.578,"end":8673.087,"text":"他前三晚才計算一個月還是昨天就明天送過去就開始送過去所以是昨天就算了還是明天會送明天才開始送各位"},{"start":8682,"end":8692.549,"text":"那你們會在禮拜天再說不要急就算了那我們就可以七月到時候再處理六月我打給你們看六月就這樣會做到"},{"start":8715.177,"end":8715.537,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":8760.771,"end":8763.913,"text":"好我們繼續開會那下一位質詢請賴瑞榮委員質詢"},{"start":8772.403,"end":8799.573,"text":"好 謝昭偉 請郭部長跟高副主委好 請部長跟副主委好 先請教一下部長這個這陣子包括AI的投資包括黃雲勳 包括輝達跟AMD在台灣投資大家都相當關心那輝達也宣布他的總部設在台北這邊那因為高雄也有亞灣2.0 亞灣"},{"start":8802.534,"end":8826.188,"text":"智慧科技創新園區的170億的一個投資那我想問一下部長在輝達跟AMD在高雄的投資這個部分有沒有想要更具體的一些進度報告委員我想這個輝達在高雄的投資我們可以看到他在最重要的這個智慧城市"},{"start":8829.48,"end":8844.067,"text":"這個數位暖身用在這個智慧城市已經是非常成功的所以之前他的演講上面也特別介紹這一段那我們相信這樣的一個合作"},{"start":8845.219,"end":8866.848,"text":"那麼在未來這個智慧城市會copy到全世界一些發展數位化的這個國家這是一個非常好的一個例子那我們當然也非常的我想高雄非常的這個榮幸能夠跟這個世界最強大的這個數位公司能夠做這樣的一個合作"},{"start":8867.768,"end":8886.105,"text":"那第二个这个AMD在高雄来讲的话可以看得出来它在这个西光石上面事实上这个有非常大的一个投资跟这个发展我想这个代表全世界最关注AI的两大公司"},{"start":8887.133,"end":8913.445,"text":"都有在高雄做一些深入的這些發展部長 勸一下AMD的這個研發中心跟辦公室的部分這個持續在推動當中嗎這個在進度當中那回答除了AI的算力中心超級算力中心以外另外像主權AI燈卡的計畫跟甚至於研發中心這個有朝這個方向在推動嗎現在這個NVIDIA在它的這個超級電腦這個台北ONE"},{"start":8915.766,"end":8940.675,"text":"是在雅灣這個是確定的那它當然會繼續發展我相信這個高雄的雅灣那麼在整個世界上面會漸漸的展露出來我們在高雄在數位的研究跟人才的匯聚有一個非常重要的一些成績出來"},{"start":8941.035,"end":8963.175,"text":"我們希望部長持續來協助坦白講這一次的總部沒有設在高雄高雄沒有入選其實我們是有一點失望的但是也希望將來的部分持續推因為亞灣2.0包括智慧科技參選區的投入在這個地方那還是需要更多的力道那當然台北跟高雄台北是佔有一些優勢那我們還是希望"},{"start":8963.775,"end":8988.977,"text":"在部裡面在整個中央裡面還是能夠全力的來協助讓這些包含輝達、AMV包含幾個重要的這些AI的巨擘能夠順利的能夠在高雄持續的來推展好不好請部長再持續大力來協助我們現在看到這個輝達在選擇台北當然因為他過去在台北的這個研發大樓本來就在台北就已經有只是他是那個租賃的大樓"},{"start":8990.267,"end":9010.716,"text":"那他現在這個自己來購買土地來興建符合他未來發展的這樣的一個道路我想這個是當然基於這個現實的考量他已經有好幾千人在台北上千人在台北這些人要移動到高雄其實他也在困難但是我們發現在未來最重要的"},{"start":9011.667,"end":9026.615,"text":"他的應用其實是在高雄的這一點我想委員你可以放任所以我也希望部長再大力的來寫書特別是智慧這一塊有很多在跟一些基礎產業甚至新興的一些產業的合作上面高雄具有相當多的一些優勢"},{"start":9027.435,"end":9041.361,"text":"我們現在經濟部我們技術師也是重兵在高雄我們的基礎中心在高雄我們是大力的在推動AI的應用"},{"start":9042.762,"end":9059.085,"text":"所以他們這個金融中心在高雄是這個著墨的非常的深啊所以這是不是固定每三個月還是給我一份你們最新的一些狀況讓我知道了好不好就是你們推動的一些狀況讓我知道一下好不好就是整個對於整個產業的一些推動是的這個我們可以"},{"start":9060.046,"end":9080.276,"text":"那另外是機器人其實也是現在黃雲信也提到未來的一個經濟的一個核心那我還是希望這一塊但是我們現在看到這個包括國科會經濟部門國發基金的機器人的500億的這個計畫看起來多數其實我們希望未來跟高雄台南之間有更多的一些連結"},{"start":9081.577,"end":9102.739,"text":"台南看起來有在但是因為高雄台南之間距離相當近我們現在想做更多的連結這個硬體的部分可能是在台南但是軟體的部分這個深層式AI的所有的訓練可能是在高雄所以我們希望這個連結上再更加的強化這個連結是非常重要的請部長跟主委那邊"},{"start":9103.76,"end":9115.518,"text":"那再來我想請教一下啦其實大家今天談到主權基金的部分我是不是也問一下先問一下高副主委好不好主權基金的部分總統提出來他的裁員的部分從哪裡來這個確定了嗎還在討論當中有可能哪些方向"},{"start":9120.127,"end":9143.175,"text":"如果根據國際的話他有可能會來自外匯存底有可能在財政盈餘然後有些國家如果有特殊的生產資源就有原油啊等等的收入都有可能所以這幾個都有可能來跟各部會結局後討論最後一個大概不太因為我們沒有產時我們有特殊的自然資源的收益啊所以可能就是財財政盈餘或者是"},{"start":9144.095,"end":9169.175,"text":"因為全世界各國採用的方式都不太一樣但是不拖你剛剛講的這幾個方法那當然內部會去做討論因為總統有宣誓我想內部會做討論那不排除各種可能性所以也不是哪一位部會首長或哪一位或者是總裁說了就算了其實在恐怕還是要整體國家來整體思考那另外請教一下它的額度未來會是拉到什麼樣的規模有初步的想法嗎這個額度也是在討論也是在討論中"},{"start":9170.626,"end":9194.922,"text":"好 那另外將來會制定一個條例吧 會有一個法律的依據我們目前根據大家有比較有的共識就是會用專法專法來做專責管理機構的方式專法跟專責 那專責機構剛剛大家討論很多現在還沒有確定是哪個機構嘛對不對應該是說會有主管機關可是這個主管機關到時候會成立一個主權基金的專責管理機構"},{"start":9196.933,"end":9223.376,"text":"對 但是這個法會是由哪個部會來主席那當然就是由主責機關來負責所以都有可能啦不管是國發會或者是經濟部都有可能嘛對 主責機關來制定專法跟組建專責機構好 那它未來跟組員基金跟國發基金應該會有一些不同的區隔嘛國發基金應該比較屬於是內兩個同時間都還是會存在嘛是的所以應該一個主要是對內一個是對外的部分啦"},{"start":9224.485,"end":9237.382,"text":"就是也很難說是對內或對外就是他會有他的定位啦這樣子所以不會是將來兩個基金做整併而是會不會是單獨去成立的因為我覺得總統在他的他520的那個"},{"start":9239.284,"end":9256.667,"text":"它已經說明這兩個應該是並行的好 我們也期待未來主權基金能夠扮演讓台灣的整個國家的影響力跟我們的佈局甚至產業的升級甚至於整個跟世界各國友邦的好的互動能夠達到更好的一個效果好 謝謝部長謝謝賴瑞榮委員那下一位請陳廷飛委員質詢"},{"start":9273.939,"end":9275.142,"text":"謝謝我們請經濟部跟國發會好經濟部跟國發會謝謝"},{"start":9288.171,"end":9317.037,"text":"委員好部長好部長我想讓你看一個資料這是我們113年度預算的主決議的提案就是我們在預算當中當時候的主決議非常清楚由我們的立法院經濟委員會通過當時候有做了這個決議說在尚未完成前兩項的要求前能源署不得核發申罷的"},{"start":9317.617,"end":9317.637,"text":"電業執照"},{"start":9337.121,"end":9352.388,"text":"我先不說 申辦一期的回饋金目前到底怎麼了先不要管這個了要談到這個可能又會氣很多但是我先了解"},{"start":9353.268,"end":9374.335,"text":"能源署的部分你們常在說一起的回饋金基本上是依照一起還平這個要我們的環境部好環境部的問題我不問你我現在只有問我們能源署的部分能源署在尚未完成前兩項的要求點不得核發電業執照第一項"},{"start":9377.267,"end":9385.558,"text":"第一項是什麼我們先看一下第一項就是要求回饋金與電協金應秉持促進電力發展營運提升發電輸電及偏電設施周邊地區發展及居民福祉為目的有關"},{"start":9395.111,"end":9411.26,"text":"申辦一期回饋金為依書面規定撥付事宜請能源署依電協經管理辦法規定要求申辦電廠撥補108年至112年電協經的部分113年以後的電協經也要依電協經管理辦法規定辦理這是一期的部分那請問這要求有到位了嗎"},{"start":9422.878,"end":9450.229,"text":"邦委員我請能源署來回答報告那個森霸他並沒有規定來依規定來繳交這個電協金那所以我們已經有通知他要一線來繳交那麼他的金額是在委員我們就算過大概3億7千萬那這是一第二因為他沒有照規定那我們另外也額外有罰款100萬"},{"start":9451.87,"end":9476.663,"text":"那當然森巴目前他是不符這一個我們的處分那正在跟我們溯院當中那麼跟委員報告就是說這個我們未來會依這個溯院的決定來要求他如果他還是不繳的話我們依我們電驗法的規定會持續來加重處罰也就是說我們會一百萬、兩百萬、三百萬這樣子一直去處罰 署長這個是一起喔"},{"start":9480.168,"end":9502.966,"text":"二期你們現在已經過了對不對他都沒有達到我們的要求你就過了已經違反了我們的主決議號二期的部分是明年回饋金是明年對不對他以前年度他的整個獲益所得來計算他的一個回饋金所以二期回饋金都還沒有講到喔"},{"start":9508.57,"end":9526.011,"text":"還沒有繳 對不對 要明年喔所以現在只能講一期 申辦一期的回饋金申辦一期回饋金很清楚 我們已經有我們的電業法之後 我們都有要求到底要怎麼繳交 它從來沒繳交過"},{"start":9529.695,"end":9550.39,"text":"從來沒繳交過所以3.7億我要再次強調這是一期我覺得不要把他搞亂一期3.7億二期你們現在他一期都還沒繳進來你們又核准他了這就是我要講的你們已經違反主決議了在第二個部分第二個要求382期現在"},{"start":9554.858,"end":9583.177,"text":"已經通過了跟我們當時候主角不一樣 主角一直說他在試運轉喔好他在試運轉的部分已經造成民眾對安全的擔憂 因為他是二期的管線沿用一期的管線我們也只有要求你要要求申辦應該提出試運轉檢測資料 這個要提出沒有問題我們也要求你要把未來"},{"start":9584.518,"end":9601.829,"text":"過去沒有問題不代表未來沒有問題未來他如何公正公平公開能夠讓大家知道他的公共安全管線的資料就這個部分他也做不到他也做不到"},{"start":9602.788,"end":9621.617,"text":"是 這樣分成兩個部分就是他的管線安全那麼他有提供資料那也請第三方公證機構來看過這是過去嗎 我現在沒有跟你講過去那他現在委員關心的是說那他未來40年是不是能夠也保證安全"},{"start":9622.197,"end":9649.027,"text":"那这一部分就是说我们是靠未来的监测机制好这个监测机制在哪里吗我只要求说你应该让地方能够参与让地方知道我的管线有没有问题他经过永康新市新化到山上这路径多长啊这是应该的这是人民的权益而且申办"},{"start":9650.067,"end":9676.073,"text":"他的所有管線他的圖資都不完整都不完整這20年前的資料圖資都不完整你要叫人民怎麼信心能夠相信他的管線沒有問題當然你們現在有學者專家願意被他背書可是請問我人民總有權去要求未來吧"},{"start":9676.678,"end":9703.19,"text":"是這是應該的那所以我們有叫這個森巴他要把他的這個現在的資料放在網站上他有放在網站上那未來他會持續做監測你監測系統都不在了請問這些網站都是吃一些資料而已你應該把你的網站安全的監測在哪裡在永康設一點新市設一點"},{"start":9704.23,"end":9713.121,"text":"然後山上設一點 新化設一點那麼所有的李明 民眾 就得知道這些資料就是從這邊跑出來的是應該是這樣做啊 並沒有欸你們都完全 申辦怎麼講 你們就怎麼做"},{"start":9720.951,"end":9730.196,"text":"沒有啦 我們有第三方 剛才報告第三方的認證機構不是第三方認證機構 第三方認證是之前不代表未來 未來要公開透明民眾只是要求這個樣子有很困難嗎沒有 這是應該做的是啊 可是你們並沒有要求他啊你們還是讓他過啦"},{"start":9744.362,"end":9769.209,"text":"因為他未來的監測你多久要把這些監測在哪裡永康設一點 新市設一點 新化設一點 山上設一點你把它很清楚透明我們的監測系統在哪裡然後公開在網站當中就是這些監測的單位監測的地方所發出來的資料"},{"start":9770.329,"end":9791.192,"text":"這樣不是就很好了嗎那我們的里長都可以來看地方議員也可以來看那是不是安全上彼此就有一些約束力是不是如此委員 這個要求是合理的那所以我們有要求他未來要把所有的監測資料包括巡檢的資料要PO在網站上"},{"start":9793.13,"end":9815.497,"text":"署長我要點 永康設在哪裡 新市設在哪裡 新化設在哪裡你沒有這些監測點 請問你這些資料怎麼跑出來的 誰知道是 是 他有這些監測點 那我可以提供給你監測點在哪裡 多久要給我們 讓所有的民眾來知道我的監測點在哪裡"},{"start":9816.917,"end":9834.139,"text":"可以 我們大概一禮拜我們提供這個資料就他的監測點包括他未來的監測機制是什麼那他要定期把他監測的結果來告訴民眾一個禮拜喔我們會要求他來做 沒問題"},{"start":9835.2,"end":9853.251,"text":"地下管線 署長地下管線不能開玩笑啦是是他只要一個氣爆 整個都沒了整個都沒了 署長一個禮拜喔我等你給我這些監測的地方然後他的監測系統怎麼公開透明"},{"start":9854.351,"end":9873.083,"text":"這個部分再拜託然後3.7億一期的回饋金到底什麼時候要入到我們市庫市庫喔 因為這回饋金是給地方的對不對 要給我們市庫 你要追啊沒錯 申辦有律師團啊哪知道我們又過輸啦 我跟你說我們八包起來放啦"},{"start":9881.957,"end":9894.426,"text":"我們有信心才會做這樣的處分所以要多久趕快入我們的事庫這個也要給我們一個時間表這個部分很重要我們再拜託我們的國發會"},{"start":9898.206,"end":9916.617,"text":"我們要拜託我們當時候經濟委員會下去考察所有唐鐵五分車狼帶創生計畫對不對副主委我要拜託你要怎麼樣請台唐市政府哪一個單位趕快提出這個創生計畫這個狼帶創生太美了"},{"start":9921.874,"end":9946.329,"text":"如果它真的可以完成的話我相信這個部分才是我們西北能夠對這個企業變成是我們的期待跟願望的一個機會人家說對我們的後面變成前途好 所以這個部分多久我們這個副主委是這個唐鐵五分車人大創新計畫多久"},{"start":9950.083,"end":9973.737,"text":"我們要跟地方協調哪一個單位要出來台堂還有市府到底要是從文化部文化局或是我們經發局來提出這個部分多久要把它溝通出來我想我針對委員體這個案子我們會跟市政府還有中央的話大概是經濟部的相關的機關我們來討論一下再給委員回覆一個月好不好"},{"start":9974.637,"end":10001.892,"text":"我們下個禮拜會再從市政府跟我們台堂去針對這幾個問題我們有提出幾個問題就是包括它的斷點要怎麼找替代道路還有我們所有謝嚴台的整個文化部的一個登錄還有相關的這個設置平交道要怎麼連接的部分還有我們所有地方的這些階段的部分"},{"start":10003.311,"end":10024.562,"text":"其實不是問題啦我們都有去看都不是問題只是這小問題我們要怎麼約市府跟台黨把它做一個串聯那但是這個創生計畫狼帶創生計畫一個月提出來看哪一個單位要主責趕快提出來我們是不是先開會先調完我們再給委員答覆好謝謝"},{"start":10034.688,"end":10061.083,"text":"好 謝謝陳廷輝委員那下一位請邱志偉委員質詢謝謝主席 是不是請國會高副主委以及經濟部郭部長請高副主委跟郭部長"},{"start":10065.981,"end":10085.176,"text":"國發基金的效能跟資源分配我一直在關心國發基金可以改成北台灣發展基金那麼多的基金項目投資的這些企業或者天使創業投資經濟委員會四個高雄立委"},{"start":10089.5,"end":10113.626,"text":"台南一位嘉義住在上面中南部的都是經濟委員會主要成員你看你國際基金投資的縣市比例全部都向北升低降百分之87中部寥寥可數3.36南部加起來也只過5.45"},{"start":10117.462,"end":10120.336,"text":"這樣是不是可以改名叫這個北台灣發展基金"},{"start":10122.092,"end":10146.74,"text":"委員其實我們也有發現到也有就是有點重北輕南這是過去16個月的統計啊所以我們原來也知道我們原來在創業天使的投資方案我們原來是準備在1月21號有一個南部服務是啦我知道啦但是因為你的預算被凍結所以沒辦法解凍之後你們趕快去成立但是不是一個人的編制喔"},{"start":10147.08,"end":10173.719,"text":"當然當然不是一個人編制不是創投工會派一個人去那邊是你要背一格喔不會不會我是希望你國發基金撥一半人力成立辦公室或者國發基金全部移到高雄去恐怕因為我們國發基金只有二十幾個人三十幾位我們真正就是大概只有大概其他就是我們正式的你要拿出決心啦一撥一半人力去我想人不是很重要就是工人要發揮才是更重要人為什麼不重要"},{"start":10174.861,"end":10189.421,"text":"執密 副執密 組長全部都在台北你請創投工會 委託創投工會去那邊設立 派一個人去找一個辦公室 坐一個人的椅子你就知道你有服務嗎不會 我們一定會我是希望說啊我不要用決議"},{"start":10190.723,"end":10207.719,"text":"我不用附帶舉意我會要求你國發基金啊你要拿出具體的做法不是光說不練你看這數據多多 我要怎麼對這個南部對高雄 對台南 對嘉義的這些新創這些年輕人我怎麼交代高雄市兩家而已你過去16個月核准了51家"},{"start":10213.649,"end":10218.376,"text":"全部在中北部 全部在北部高雄只有兩家 加起來1100萬"},{"start":10222.368,"end":10246.55,"text":"其實我們除了創業天使以外我們還有其他的所有投資做的重整不是創業天使而已你看這個表是所有你們投資方案所以我們接下來我們也會責成各部會匡列的這些基金也要重視南部南部的這些新狀你這樣講他們好好好重視我數字給你看嘛有沒有成果數字會說話"},{"start":10248.038,"end":10269.335,"text":"所以我希望啊你們最好是國發基金掉落一半的能力到高雄成立辦公室我們還有男伴嘛如果解凍之後我覺得這個辦公室水沒問題能力也沒問題啊你要拿出決心來你看新莊那麼多全部都在在北部資源相對比較多你從事的管道比較多資源比較豐富你還全部放在"},{"start":10271.986,"end":10298.48,"text":"換寡也換不均啦 不均也換不公平我們一定會讓人部的服務中心發揮他應有的功能你現在目前規劃是派一位創投工會的人去喔我們應該不是喔我了解是這樣 我比你更清楚啦 郭副主委新創啊 需要福祉新創需要法律來支援產創條例在我剛剛召委的時候通過 對不對我雖不滿意 但是還有精進空間"},{"start":10300.472,"end":10328.442,"text":"包括有更多 包括這個部分是應該是經濟部的業務的船上鐵路我希望說能夠有更多的這個優惠包括租稅穿透率 適用的門檻這需要跟財政部結合這個處理另外企業購併新創能不能納入投資底檢這個也應該給他一些輔導所以你那個新創的這個投資人越來越少因為你沒有給他這個土壤你沒有給他環境 他就不會投入新創嘛"},{"start":10329.382,"end":10346.865,"text":"這次產創條例裡面也有這次產創條例裡面也有對新創有一些這次不是我修法 是我通過的嘛二讀發言只有我在嘛這個法律是我主審的所以我希望我下回期我再重新針對產創條例不足的部分 我再重新體驗"},{"start":10348.327,"end":10359.917,"text":"包括我剛剛說的租稅穿透率適用門檻新創年限的定義要再調整所得額的抵檢優惠對象跟上限也要做調整這一點 國務長您支持嗎支持 好"},{"start":10364.434,"end":10393.308,"text":"部長支持 因為這個法案是在經濟部主導我希望到時候跨部會協調包括財政部 包括國會都要充分支持我們讓下一步的 下一會期的修法讓廠商條例能夠更完整提供新創產業更完整 更優質的一個投資環境是的 我們全力支持這第一趴第二趴這個海水淡化廠很重要大部分是離島"},{"start":10395.046,"end":10422.399,"text":"那現在這個新竹跟高雄新竹跟台南因為這個台南園區高科技的需求所以需要用這個海淡廠海淡廠我曾經在蔡英文總統時代把台中臨時海淡廠把他設備遷到新達電廠鐵電新達電廠隔壁做一個臨時海淡廠的一個一個一個處所他提供的這個水啊"},{"start":10424.965,"end":10451.465,"text":"這個海水淡化水我喝過可以喝它可以提供民生醫用水 必要的時候稍微減減啦蔡總統也有喝所以它不僅能夠提升提供民生醫用水也可以提供什麼這個產業醫用水原先規劃10萬噸那時候賴建信當署長的時候我一直在討論一直在滾動檢討我一直關心這個問題 也是我提案"},{"start":10452.506,"end":10469.074,"text":"本來沒這幾個 本來是台南三省長寧我邀請要認識一下所以把台中那個搬來北高雄你現在要設置永久性的海淡廠你要跟地方有充分的溝通得到地方同意你不能因為海淡廠設置之後把一個漁村產業把石斑魚的故鄉給毀了"},{"start":10473.752,"end":10495.126,"text":"你現在整個在延安 延安有LNG 中游有LNG廠也有旁邊的這個新達電廠 你要加上一個永安這個再生水廠一個一萬多人的一個區域 也有三個廠在那邊而且大部分是養殖餘溫啦 酒瓣是在故鄉的你這樣佔15公頃 人要怎麼做溫啊"},{"start":10500.106,"end":10522.142,"text":"所以今天你的地點的選擇很重要我是支持要蓋在那個海水淡化廠但是你要去為了選擇你要讓我知道啊所以我竟然是最後一位才知道理事長跟我說我說我怎麼不知道這個計畫我不是原先是在協定興大電廠裡面嗎他們已經規劃好十萬噸了"},{"start":10526.328,"end":10554.475,"text":"那怎麼變成到永安來的原來是那個計畫改成地點 改到永安我不用這個案子是我提議才會有這個海水台灣廠設在北高雄我希望你們來檢討是不是能夠多一點尊重這樣我是最後一位才知道我怎麼對我的鄉親交代我們會改善所以這個區位已經得到地方上極大的反彈"},{"start":10555.526,"end":10583.68,"text":"你們區會重新選擇你要得到地方的共識我才能讓你繼續推下去如果因為鱷魚海灘場你毀滅一個漁村我死了就不會接受所以今天很嚴肅的問題這是他們生存權的問題我最後是在知道我不在意啦但是我希望不要在這種情況發生我覺得行政立法部門充分的溝通"},{"start":10585.134,"end":10611.087,"text":"你在我的選區蓋那麼大的工程換地點我竟然不知道這個有點詭異現在還不是農曆七月另外東南亞台商在印度跟菲律賓這個菲律賓我想國務長您也很熟我希望可以再加強在菲律賓的佈局你看印度它的國內市場"},{"start":10612.691,"end":10640.216,"text":"很大所以我們是不是包括你看以前田鴻茂院長他做黨會裡面說南向國家裡面東南亞國際裡面印度跟菲律賓不然從關稅未來可能演變或者他市場我覺得他他認為這是一個非常有潛力所以我們要加強力道針對菲律賓跟印度輔導協助我們台在原來的東南亞台商在這邊能夠有更多生產聚落"},{"start":10642.35,"end":10666.864,"text":"是因為我來經濟部以後就推動這個境外關內的這個想法那政府當然會在這個找到一個合適的地點以後啊那讓這個已經在新南向的地區的廠商幫他們能夠開始做一些產業的集結那這個產業集結以後啊那麼政府給一些關照那我想這樣子會提升他們的競爭力好那請"},{"start":10669.345,"end":10695.911,"text":"這個部長經濟部拿出具體的作為針對這兩個國家有更多的輔導作為是 我也提出來最後30秒再請教高副主委就是就業金卡這個相關有一些的法規你必須要去重視是那有YouTuber因為他因為非法工作要採取被移民署禁止入國但是他禁止入國管制期間他又收到就業金卡他拿這個就業金卡又來入境"},{"start":10697.852,"end":10705.107,"text":"這個部分是行政作業跟法規適用會引起爭議跟漢格這個部分你們有沒有什麼你們有沒有知道這個問題要怎麼去彌補來 處長"},{"start":10709.891,"end":10733.951,"text":"謝謝委員的垂詢有關這個案子其實我們有跟移民署這邊做了解確實是移民署在審查的過程之中沒有去檢視到說所以是移民署的問題啊就是在核發簽證核發那個就是就業金卡最後一關的時候沒有查證到說他有一些簽錢被禁止入境的這樣的一個情況"},{"start":10734.671,"end":10759.176,"text":"所以這個行政書是你要規則移民署沒有 我們這個部分我們後續也會再加強加強整個 橫向的聯繫很重要不完全是移民署移民署絕對是照章去做審核一定是因為法規上面是不是有不足或者有遺漏之處我希望你們最快速度跟移民署再做一個協調避免類似的狀況再發生好 謝謝各位 謝謝謝謝趙偉"},{"start":10766.053,"end":10773.776,"text":"這個我不敢苟同好謝謝邱志偉委員來下一位請張家俊委員質詢謝謝趙偉我想請這個經濟部郭部長還有我們的高副主委"},{"start":10788.876,"end":10810.401,"text":"國務部長立法院呢在2025年的5月13號三讀修正通過了我們這個核子反應器的施管制辦法設施管制辦法第6條修正案那賦予呢核電廠研議跟重啟的這個法律依據那之前呢你也曾表示過如果修法通過"},{"start":10811.001,"end":10816.889,"text":"那政府會在這個法規框架下來行事那請問經濟部是否已經開始研擬啟動研議的評估作業了呢"},{"start":10822.057,"end":10841.854,"text":"報告委員我想對於這個核管法的部分我想大家必須要先設置一個法來先就安全的部分我們已經通過了我們這個核子反應器的設施管理管制辦法第六條修正案已經賦予核電廠研議或重啟的法律依據"},{"start":10846.158,"end":10850.101,"text":"那你一直在講的核安然後核廢料社會共識等等有關於核安其實台灣的核電常年在IAEA國際評鑑中都是名列前茅如果這樣的機組都不算安全的話還有誰能夠過關呢"},{"start":10864.412,"end":10881.803,"text":"是 報告委員我想這個是通過了母法我們現在還缺乏那個執法可以執行的執法所以我們現在就是要讓整安會趕快把執法送出來然後讓台電可以根據這個執法下去去落實這樣"},{"start":10883.285,"end":10886.909,"text":"經濟部的部分呢經濟部是贊成樂觀集成這兩個前提然後三個原則我想這個就是核安的部分已經應該是不用再討論了應該我們算是安全就要趕快把執法執法落實然後台電根據這個執法去檢測"},{"start":10902.486,"end":10912.969,"text":"那三個原則我想還是一樣大家都非常清楚就是核安沒問題核廢料可以處理那全民有公事那核廢料就是甘氏儲存潮的計畫已經早啟動現在就是可能2025年就會完成了那系統設計的壽命為50年那甘廚做到了應該是核廢料也有解了"},{"start":10924.392,"end":10933.102,"text":"那社會共識的部分非常多的這個民調包括最近的禁新聞的民調都顯示說有過半的民眾55%以上的民眾都贊成所以這應該也算是社會共識所以研議的三個要件實際上都已經"},{"start":10943.695,"end":10956.3,"text":"已經具備了唯一沒有準備好的就是政策執行的勇氣啊那希望說這個部長要拿出你這個霸道總裁的這個霸氣啊趕快讓他實行啊讓我們的這個產業比較安定下來安心說我會有穩定供電啊"},{"start":10963.344,"end":10985.922,"text":"謝謝委員就這一部分我想公部門必須要依法依規來處理那我剛才跟您報告我們母法通過了謝謝您但是我們現在趕快要把執法羅列出來然後大家按照法的框架之下大家努力的快速的把這件事情給完成那也拜託部長再從旁"},{"start":10987.243,"end":11001.463,"text":"加速讓他們可以加速前進趕快你的關心我想一定會給他們增添很多的這個火力啦那另外講到火力我必須要講一下就是今天很多人問的核三廠5月17日"},{"start":11003.766,"end":11020.375,"text":"停機三天才停機三天5月20號去年9月操作許可證就到齊的新達3號4號燃煤機組就啟動了加入電網這個是否屬實呢那我是不是請這個我們台電跟你回應一下好"},{"start":11022.165,"end":11050.644,"text":"是 跟委員報告喔 興達它的許可雖然到期了但是它還沒有到初一興達的3號機是今年底才初一然後4號機是明年底那許可到期之後台電有跟昭雄市政府提出這個許可的審查演繹它不能在審查中審查中你就可以自己脫開啦當時在這個興達更新改建的環評裡面其實當時就有承諾這個興達的3號 4號機在被轉容量低於8%以下的時候它可以運轉"},{"start":11051.61,"end":11076.694,"text":"是 那我可不可以再跟部長講一下這就是我想要指出的就是現在我們的政府對於延役這兩個字根本就是雙重標準新達三號機 四號機早就已經沒有操作許可證了也不在常態的機組名單之上但是只要有缺電危機這些機組就可以立即起死回生重新啟用 上網發電請問一下部長 這樣算不算延役呢"},{"start":11079.815,"end":11083.037,"text":"有經過新的許可嗎 他在審查中就可以拿出來用了還是只要用電不夠的時候他們內部決定說 應急就可以立即上線了呢因為還在審查中嘛 是吧所以在那個環境裡面是被允許的啦就反觀核電不但機組狀態良好而且運轉穩定這個安全評鑑屢獲國際認同然後原班人馬原班體系都在結果現在連研議的"},{"start":11109.875,"end":11118.482,"text":"法都過了 你們現在還在想要說執法啊等等啊 我是覺得說是不是喔 應該不要再繼續雙標下去了趕快把你們拿新大電廠的這種喔 魄力拿來啟用河山廠這樣好不好 我們部長"},{"start":11126.495,"end":11144.769,"text":"大家一起努力好 謝謝那我是不是可以再問一下我們這個高副主委就是我們賴總統前幾天有表示國家應該要成立這個主權基金那請問一下國發會現在的 持的態度為何呢我們遵照行政院協議的"},{"start":11147.117,"end":11170.518,"text":"結果那現在台灣雖然沒有主權基金但是過去央行也曾說我們的四大基金勞保勞退國民年金跟退府基金雖然沒有主權基金之名但有主權基金之實那國發會的這個國發基金也有類似的功能您認為未來主權基金跟我們四大基金的投資邏輯上會有什麼大不同嗎"},{"start":11171.919,"end":11201.199,"text":"基本上所謂的四大基金比較是財務型操作的基金那我們國發基金是屬於策略投資型的基金那國際間的主權基金這兩種形態都有會是這個國家的它是要達到的政策性的目標來定那我們未來主權基金是會採取什麼樣的形態來設置目前還在研議當中所以還不是很清楚那有關於這個台灣的主權基金成立的裁員呢"},{"start":11202.36,"end":11215.974,"text":"也是在研議當中 國際間有財政盈餘 外匯存底還有他們自然資源的收益那有可能發債嗎當然是有可能就是不排除預計的發債對象跟他的規模"},{"start":11218.737,"end":11232.284,"text":"都還在研議當中都還在研議當中那所以意思就是說在總統說之前是沒有縝密的規劃的不是 應該是說我們都有各我們都有一些國際間的我們都有研議過"},{"start":11235.045,"end":11257.152,"text":"國際間的基本的做法那我們基本上我們也有模擬如果國內要推動的時候我們可以採取什麼樣的做法可是基本上因為之前的討論大家都就是在今年以前的這些討論其實沒有太多的共識那現在總統已經決定要宣誓要成立的時候呢那我們就會就中間可行的做法適合我們國內的情況我們來嚴厲一些具體的"},{"start":11259.733,"end":11280.067,"text":"策略跟方向當然啊這個均無細言既然總統說了要做就是一定要做那但是呢我們也希望說做的時候一定要多參考一些其他國家的例子當然新加坡的模式很多人都提起那但是呢也不是沒有失敗的例子像挪威的主權基金第一季就高達"},{"start":11281.308,"end":11285.391,"text":"這虧損高達新台幣1.3兆元那我們希望說這個主權基金給這個國發會一點建議可以帶回去跨部會溝通第一就是一定要設立專法然後設計的制度絕對不能倉促上路那第二呢主權基金應該由獨立的法人運作由這個政府產業界跟學界共組"},{"start":11305.543,"end":11321.902,"text":"不要變成政治人事化人事政治化確保投資的專業性那未來呢也希望說這個推動主權基金的這個過程國發會不要只是配合的單位要去扮演這個設定制度的設計制度的這個領頭單位謝謝"},{"start":11324.765,"end":11327.186,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部郭部長跟國發會高副主委"},{"start":11354.311,"end":11380.252,"text":"謝謝我們請部長跟副處委謝謝委員好部長我想這個NVIDIA黃仁勳那他宣告了要在台灣來做他的海外總部那這個海外總部我想代表了一個意義除了說他是一個NVIDIA在台灣落地要在這裡"},{"start":11381.293,"end":11408.256,"text":"開始發展他的事業之外最重要的是黃仁勳他講的他未來NVIDIA已經不是只是一個科技公司他會變成AI的基礎設施公司哇 這個宣告就很大了因為所謂AI的基礎設施他包括說從過去傳統的CPU之外以後我們的要發展更多的GPU TPU甚至我們要有更好的儲存系統過去都是卡在電腦裡面"},{"start":11409.557,"end":11427.405,"text":"現在可能要透過雲端的儲存來有更多的網路的運算而且這個運算必須要高寬頻必須要低延遲這都是整個AI基礎設施最關鍵的地方實際上黃仁勳做這樣的一個宣告之後我馬上就注意到5月19號"},{"start":11429.481,"end":11443.836,"text":"馬來西亞他也馬上宣告他要以華為的晶片為核心然後發展所謂馬來西亞國家級的AI基礎設施所以看起來馬來西亞大概就是他也有他的一個"},{"start":11444.637,"end":11467.608,"text":"整體的戰略的佈局而且這個戰略佈局大概會跟黃仁勳在台灣要組的AI基礎設施這看起來就有點壁壘分明了因為我們黃仁勳NVIDIA是以台積電的晶片為主所以部長你怎麼看這樣國際情勢這樣世界科技的競爭那台灣未來的一個角色呢是啊 報告委員我想這個全球來看"},{"start":11470.269,"end":11484.536,"text":"在AI的這個領域裡面當然最大的就是美國那中國的AI當然是在目前來看排名是第二名那華為當然是中國最大的半導體機構那今天這個"},{"start":11487.598,"end":11504.856,"text":"黃榮勳先生來台灣那麼建立他的這個這個大的這個基地啊海外的基地在台北主要是看上我們的人才主要是看上台灣的這個人才以及台灣在這個半導體供應鏈充分的這樣的一個架構那我相信這個馬來西亞他站在這個這個"},{"start":11510.672,"end":11540.032,"text":"對立面啦可以講說他對立面當然就跟壁壘分明了嘛一個是以華為晶片為主的一個我們NVIDIA是以台積電的晶片啦這個就有一點是不一樣的走向了所以現在就是競爭的開始欸競爭的開始但是我們台灣呢是這個A組加A組啦齁那他們是這個B組加B組我們台灣有最強的整個AI的供應鏈嘛都在台灣所以我們是最強的一組啊但是我覺得在這個時候我們經濟部很重要"},{"start":11540.792,"end":11554.868,"text":"部長我們是不是要當黃仁勳未來在台灣整體布局的一個靠山這沒問題吧我們現在不僅是做NVIDIA的靠山我們是做台積電的靠山"},{"start":11556.17,"end":11572.231,"text":"台積電的靠山台積電是世界最強的半導體公司沒有錯由台積電製造出來的晶片支持全球所有的AI的伺服器那麼這個算力基本上來自於AI伺服器的精算的能耐"},{"start":11572.952,"end":11592.61,"text":"我相信沒有世界沒有任何一個地方可以比台灣更優秀可以比台灣更優秀所以可以看得出來當他把這個研發中心跟運作中心設立在台北的時候世界各地的數位牧民大概也會聚集到來數位牧民嘛對所以現在我們也要處理這個"},{"start":11594.031,"end":11600.698,"text":"外國人才的一個讓他招攬進來那也是強調怎麼讓數位慕名讓他可以很快速的落腳台灣這個都要做但是我還有幾個方向事實上我在這裡提出一些看法我覺得部長應該要來參考第一就是我們在發展AI基礎設施這個很多是科技產業自己要跳下去做那政府可以做什麼第一個就是在"},{"start":11618.894,"end":11627.597,"text":"在這個租稅上的一個優惠讓這些科技產業更有競爭力這是第一個第二個因為馬來西亞他結合華為晶片要發展他們國家級的這個AI基礎設施我們台灣呢"},{"start":11633.8,"end":11651.199,"text":"台灣一樣要面對這件事情那所以我們這一次跟美國的一個談判在這90天中我們必須要盯緊馬來西亞的稅率跟我們稅率的差距不要因為稅率的差距變成我們未來在做競爭時候的一些小劣勢"},{"start":11652.219,"end":11668.065,"text":"是的,我會參考這個委員的訊息所以盯緊馬來西亞他們跟美國的關稅台灣這一點一定要注意好是的那第三個就是說因為黃仁勳有講他說他所需要的晶片"},{"start":11668.985,"end":11686.321,"text":"就是台積電COWAS的晶片尤其現在最新的COWAS L所以黃仁勳都講了說他想像不到除了COWAS以外沒有其他選擇這是黃仁勳講的那我們也知道現在整個COWAS的一個佈局在嘉義的科學園區正在"},{"start":11687.141,"end":11703.01,"text":"大概今年九月第一個廠就好了所以整個台積電COWAS的布局跟未來黃仁勳所要發展的AI基礎設施他在台灣的NVIDIA的未來的帝國的一個產生這一個COWAS的一個基地就很重要"},{"start":11703.47,"end":11719.62,"text":"那所謂KOWAS,嘉義這個嘉科的KOWAS又來自於高雄台南他們生產的一個晶片所以這部分就要講給國發會聽所以就是說怎樣把整個南部交通的串聯有夠重要"},{"start":11720.22,"end":11741.821,"text":"所以我們在說的高鐵橋下的道路台37線怎麼把所謂S郎大S郎大再擴大到嘉義這一段就是連接到了把所有的科學園區透過一條產業道路直接把它串聯起來這件事就很要緊加速加速這一條產業道路的建設第二個"},{"start":11742.895,"end":11763.422,"text":"第二個因應未來NVIDIA在台灣要建立帝國要有很多科技的人才國際的人才要來台灣國際的人才要來台灣但是台灣的空運不管是客運或是貨運太過依賴桃園機場尤其是在貨運的部分95.9%的貨運都是依賴桃園機場"},{"start":11771.377,"end":11780.144,"text":"第二個高雄小館機場才佔1.79%所以你可以想像 萬不幸地在通往機場停車的時候他們的飛機又出現一些小狀況他們如果停車 我這裡的東西跑不進來"},{"start":11786.262,"end":11812.384,"text":"所以我們現在要趕快打造台灣另外一個以貨運為中心以貨運為概念的國際機場這件事我覺得這當然不是經濟部經濟部應該站在整個科技產業的佈局這件事應該在你們在行政院會報的時候都必須要拿出來講那國發會則無盤帶你們必須要趕快去建造台灣的貨運那不能夠單單"},{"start":11814.426,"end":11834.797,"text":"依賴桃園機場一間來著好不好來我們現在了解的程度是交通部在高雄推動雙港高雄在推動雙港但是高雄空港跟高雄海港沒有錯沒有錯這個都是一些計畫所以既然有這些計畫要怎麼加速那如果高雄因為又有宵禁的問題是不是還有其他地點來選擇這都要經維討論是"},{"start":11837.318,"end":11864.135,"text":"好不好 當然我們嘉義水上機場也是一個可以客戶啊 因為如果是以貨運為導向的我們並不是說這個要看客運來支撐 但是如果以貨運的話嘉義的水上機場也是一個考量的 因為剛剛就講的未來的NVIDIA晶片與CoreOS晶片沒有其他選擇那嘉義也是在這整個科技的世界大戰裡面我們佔有一席之地"},{"start":11865.496,"end":11876.241,"text":"整個政府 要來通盤的一個考量做NVIDIA 做台積電的後盾跟靠山 好不好是 謝謝委員吹詢好 謝謝謝謝昭偉謝謝部長 謝謝我們現在請羅廷威委員資訊來 請"},{"start":11901.311,"end":11910.73,"text":"好謝謝主席有請部長來請部長先給我第一張看一下"},{"start":11913.781,"end":11932.106,"text":"好 部長好 部長想跟您先請問一下 我們看這則新聞核電機組陸續除役 台電證明台中的電廠 用煤量屢創新低那台電也間接的證明盧修煙任內空污排放比2016年降低76%對嗎台電對嗎 這你們的新聞稿"},{"start":11938.257,"end":11962.017,"text":"是 因為這個是台電跟台中市這種所以他在上任時有372億度那減去去年的272億度大概大降了超過100億度電 對嗎是好 那這個是我們現階段看到了台電間接承認我們台中市一直以來都在往減煤減排的方向在進行可是我們看下一張"},{"start":11964.093,"end":11988.671,"text":"部長我還要延續5月1號的質詢部長你還記得5月1號我們兩個之間的對話嗎當時我問你火力發電會不會達到100%將近100%然後你跟我講這個機率很小那你知道在4月27到5月10號的這兩週14天內有12天有佔比突破90%的有14天有8天超過98%"},{"start":11990.692,"end":12010.189,"text":"有五天超過99%有兩天超過100%相比部長告訴我台灣進入非核家園未來約84%電力將有火力發電支撐還沒進入非核家園的承諾就已經破功了嘛部長你怎麼回應"},{"start":12013.288,"end":12025.349,"text":"我看數字的這個顯示那如果委員認為這樣是火力全開我不反對又不反對這前幾天不是說沒有火力全開嗎"},{"start":12026.67,"end":12049.531,"text":"還是你要認為火力九成九開就是不叫火力全開可是我現在問你的問題是你當時告訴我84%支撐所謂的火力發電來支撐結果沒有啊事實證明都超過90%再來我那天也問你晚上無風無雨你告訴我所謂的機率很小"},{"start":12050.572,"end":12066.247,"text":"平均發電在87%但今天我要看我們下一張圖嘛核三二號機退役之後5月18到5月22每一個表格都是來自於台電的公開資料"},{"start":12067.335,"end":12077.88,"text":"退場之後每天夜間的火力佔比都超高深夜火力佔比常常都99%以上5月18 995月19 1045月20 1015月21 1025月22 102你告訴我平均用電量晚上夜間87%相距甚遠部長這個你怎麼回應鐵針針的數據啊是"},{"start":12097.079,"end":12123.373,"text":"那你有沒有覺得你應該為你的言論而道歉當時你就在這樣子的現場在國會的殿堂你講出這些數據完全沒有依據完全就是敷衍甜言蜜語來欺騙台中人你說87%嘛但現階段我們看到的數據全部最高達到102%那你要怎麼說你就是"},{"start":12124.249,"end":12139.052,"text":"在某個時段裡面是這個樣子的在某個時段裡面是這樣子平均值是這個樣子所以你還是在用平均值來算嘛那你中火更是火力全開我並沒有用平均值來算5月18中火10部燃煤機組一部稅休9部可以發4950我們現階段發電發到了4587超過9成"},{"start":12153.089,"end":12178.443,"text":"所以你現階段火力不是全開嗎九部燃煤機組九部都開你告訴我火力沒全開火力九層開算不算火力全開還是你要這邊站那一層一部是稅休你稅休你沒有開嘛你是因為稅休沒開不是因為你不開啊所以基本上已經是把最大用電的發電量將近把它全部"},{"start":12183.045,"end":12211.07,"text":"我想你應該要就事實來說我要再回到我們下一張圖剛剛我講的第一張圖片我們在說的我們現階段2016年到2024年我們一直努力減碳減排終於有了成效可是在最近我們看到台中電廠的用煤量是屢創新高這個圖表我相信你都看過了這是用煤量我們下一張圖"},{"start":12213.459,"end":12232.757,"text":"我們把去年5月14號跟今年5月14號來做對比慢慢往前推進到了去年的5月17到今年的5月17我們看出差距發電的總量我們的總和開始越來越高"},{"start":12233.973,"end":12251.78,"text":"台電官網上說友善降載還有環保限制的跳票就用台中人的費來泰帝啊減煤承諾就是現階段我們看到的完全跳票為了救電可以犧牲台中人的健康台中火力發電會不會達到100%部長你當時還是說機率很少嗎"},{"start":12255.982,"end":12260.684,"text":"對照數據郭部長就是睜眼說瞎話難道98 99不算接近100%嗎這說大話說習慣了搞不清楚狀況部長我必須要講你就是說謊你就是騙子"},{"start":12271.704,"end":12299.583,"text":"你現階段你就是98%的騙子但是我沒有說你是100%的騙子因為你認為98%不是趨近於100%嗎所以我們現階段火力發電常年為全台供電台中市就要承受PM2.5超標肺癌居高不下口口聲聲的減煤 以氣換煤還有發展綠能你就是要告訴全民你的非核家園就是火力家園"},{"start":12300.524,"end":12319.498,"text":"所以我要跟你講中火是全球最大最老舊的啞鈴界藍莓電廠什麼時候要除疫什麼時候要給台中人健康部長你可不可以回應還是你要再繼續說謊還是你死不承認部長上一次5月1號講到現在您今天選擇沉默以對嗎還是說不出來還是啞口無言"},{"start":12329.312,"end":12350.406,"text":"部長 可以給我一些回應嗎那你給我時間講嗎請說好 這個所有發電的內容都是我們跟台中市政府合議的框架之內的數字這樣你知道嗎現階段你口口聲聲說合議的框架內啦"},{"start":12351.383,"end":12374.481,"text":"但是我們看到的發電總和所以你的意思就是說是經過台中市政府同意所以台中市政府他發證照給你你就可以這樣子不斷的使用今天我們看到數字超標你推給台中市政府合議的框架然後拿這些甜言蜜語繼續告訴民眾沒有啊台中市同意啊這個是在合議的框架之內在運作"},{"start":12375.882,"end":12392.483,"text":"你當然會這樣講可是我現階段跟你講的是2025年拿2024年你明明可以進步你現階段就是退步你還在用合議的框架你還在用這些數據平均量來告訴台中人沒有啊我們有持續的減煤減炭"},{"start":12396.067,"end":12422.021,"text":"謝謝主席我要講的是台中人的健康不是給你這樣隨意糊弄台中人的健康是台中市政府允許的範圍之內喔允許的範圍我們希望你越來越好我們在做的生煤自治條例也被中央廢除我們都希望能夠持續的減煤減碳但是中央就是在其中杯葛尤其經濟部的錯誤能源政策造成台中人最後健康損失所以我們要再一次的抗議"},{"start":12422.621,"end":12445.337,"text":"台中人應該要站起來我們更呼籲經濟部重視台中人的健康好我們經濟部非常重視所有全國國人的健康好不好意思因為我下來你又在講話所以我要回應你你如果今天重視的話今天麻煩你把真正的發電量能夠降低而不是我們看到了跟去年來對比我們的發電量屢創新高好OK不要講了"},{"start":12450.714,"end":12471.536,"text":"再講我們等一下還要處理那個處理法案好那下一位請鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員不在我們中午不休息就把今天議程處理完畢李坤城委員 李坤城委員 李坤城委員不在好下一位請徐富奎委員諮詢"},{"start":12481.412,"end":12499.386,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們郭部長還有能源署我們的代理署長跟台電的副總好請部長跟相關單位委員好 部長好剛剛聽了台中的這個羅衛原的講話 我想要討回他說"},{"start":12502.995,"end":12530.868,"text":"他們不要火力發電廠因為要犧牲台中人的健康但是他跟所有藍白委員竟然舉手支持河山廠繼續重啟研議犧牲我們屏東人的生命財產安全這有什麼邏輯啊 博定你認同這樣的論調嗎電不是我的專長所以各位委員的意見我們都尊重"},{"start":12532.346,"end":12549.993,"text":"好 部長 那我想我們核三廠二號基因在今年5月17號我們依法除役這個是我們照這個相關的法規 荷蘭種法的法規但是很遺憾的藍白委員藉由這個修改核管法甚至這個也藉由這個公投案"},{"start":12550.633,"end":12572.623,"text":"重啟了這個核三廠的一個恢復運轉的一個公投案用全國人的一個公投案來決定我們屏東人的這個生命財產的安全我個人非常不能夠接受了我想部長也是屏東人部長那賴總統也講得很清楚這個我們核電的議題政府會遵照兩個必須跟三個原則來審慎處理"},{"start":12574.346,"end":12591.382,"text":"那第一個就是核安會必須依據依法來訂定一個安全審查的一個程序第二個台電也必須依這個程序自主評估有沒有重啟的條件跟成本的效應那三個原則更重要的就是要核安無虞核非料有解社會共識部長"},{"start":12593.644,"end":12610.965,"text":"就經濟部的立場目前會遵照這個原則來做處理嗎是的一定的一定喔部長那我想我們大家都在關心這個目前這個運轉40年的這個河山廠的機組到底能不能安全運轉我想請台電的副總目前你們的評估狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":12613.849,"end":12637.627,"text":"跟委員報告即便全世界所有的核能機組有研議運轉了40年都必須要停下來做所有的神聖的安全的檢查之後核廢料你們可以處理嗎現在核三廠的燃料池的漆子也將近滿了我們預估如果它即便能夠再重新再重啟的話大概只能夠維持大概是3到4年左右的空間而已"},{"start":12637.947,"end":12658.582,"text":"是啊所以我在這邊還是要要求我們經濟部跟台電相關單位那我要講清楚啦不要隨著這個藍白立委一定要亂講那我們的回答總是似是而非我覺得這樣非常的不負責任我們到底未來這個走向要怎麼樣我們都尊重這樣一個機制運作但是呢不是藉由一個"},{"start":12659.665,"end":12686.204,"text":"隨便一個公投其他公共就會要重啟我覺得我們不能夠接受這樣的論調那部長我想剛剛很多委員都在關心我們的能源政策那我知道部長都很用心所以我想我們還是希望能夠積極去發展再生能源這一塊我想這部長應該也是一直在努力但是目前我們的2025年要達到的20%的比例目前大概有些許的一個落後未來我們怎麼樣來積極來努力"},{"start":12687.845,"end":12699.681,"text":"是 報告委員 我想我們從這個再生能源四個構面去努力包括風電 包括太陽能 包括水力 包括地熱所以我們會在2026年的11月來達標再生能源20%"},{"start":12705.868,"end":12730.369,"text":"但是我還是要提醒部長因為我們有些的案子都必須跨部會來整合包含農電也好、漁電也好甚至這個風力發電很多的案子但是跨部會整合上面我們總是聽到有些界面上處理上各部會有各部會的想法跟堅持所以造成這個推進上有一些的阻礙那部長是不是可以承諾來協助解決這些問題我們現在在加強做這個協商"},{"start":12733.411,"end":12750.465,"text":"包括在農電的部分包括在漁電的部分這個太陽能所以我們可能會先在這個屏東有一部分的這個希望能夠把光電趕快那邊有比較大的這個不是耕種的地我們會優先在那邊"},{"start":12753.154,"end":12771.591,"text":"因為它是不適合耕種的所以我們是優先在那邊建立這個地面型的這個光電是部長那我最後還是要提醒一個問題就是我們國內的太陽能的業者他們發現了中國大陸用洗產地的方式藉由東南亞把這個太陽能的模組進來到台灣"},{"start":12773.653,"end":12796.088,"text":"經濟部有掌握這樣的資訊嗎?我們有掌握,完全不允許紅色供應鏈的模組進來部長,我們掌握到一個訊息2022年從東南亞進口的產品不到10%到2024年變成50%今年一到二月就80幾%了這非常的恐怖啊我們現在會禁止他們使用"},{"start":12797.045,"end":12804.793,"text":"那針對這樣子的我們有什麼樣的一個強制的一個緊急防衛罪的一個機制來做處理嗎是有"},{"start":12807.594,"end":12828.165,"text":"我們有防止他們的就是說我們美國有美國針對這樣的他們有科與高關稅的一個防衛稅的機制我們會這個禁止他們使用然後海關也會查核一旦查到了一旦查到了第一次罰款60萬第二次300萬第三次取消這個進口的這個執照部長最後還是要提醒"},{"start":12829.886,"end":12851.848,"text":"這個有中國大陸用假外資來投資來投入我們台灣的一些案子我們必須要嚴重徹查這是國安危機啊是這一部分我們會要求投資師嚴格的審查尤其藉由東南亞國家的一個假外資他們甚至用這樣的方式包裝之後進來投尤其針對我們一些公家軍事設施的部分"},{"start":12852.268,"end":12868.441,"text":"報告委員 這個我們都有掌握啦有掌握啦我們會看他後面的這個他的結構他的資金結構跟他的股東結構好 不等 謝謝是 謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝徐富奎委員那下一位請徐欣盈委員質詢"},{"start":12879.792,"end":12882.714,"text":"謝謝主席 本席請郭部長請郭部長委員好部長好部長在您這個去年上任之前立法院有通過就去年的5月2號立法院有通過一個中小企業發展條例部分條文的修正草案"},{"start":12905.45,"end":12920.379,"text":"那他內容主要精神就是在於我們鼓勵中小企業能夠給員工加薪然後可以來扣抵他的所得這個盈利事業所得中來扣除就是所謂的"},{"start":12921.139,"end":12946.43,"text":"員工加薪企業減稅的這樣的一個通過這樣的一個法案那到現在剛好滿一年了所以本席想藉由今天來了解就是說我們經濟部有沒有在掌握這麼好的這種立法這個美意是不是有掌握以及我們在社會上實施的成效怎麼樣我們全國58萬個中小企業現在的情況如何"},{"start":12950.151,"end":12970.284,"text":"是報告委員我們會等今年的報完稅以後會來跟財政部要這些資料來確認他們是不是有按照這樣的一個法可以來落實那這個法案通過之後有沒有一些宣傳或者是一些激勵的一些措施跟做法我們中小"},{"start":12972.287,"end":12994.159,"text":"我們有辦了17場的說明會那也透過工協會去推動讓這些中小微企業但是因為中小微企業我想有一部分可能就是因為這個加數太多了我們有大概167萬家的但是你透過那個工協會或組織這樣下去其實大家應該在業內大家應該也會知道啦"},{"start":12994.759,"end":13004.105,"text":"有一些微型的企業可能他們比較難以跟這個工協會互動也許有一部分的人他不太清楚有發函嗎沒有我們現在因為我們微型的企業大概就是這種30人以下的這個企業其實"},{"start":13013.72,"end":13031.836,"text":"很難啦上上下下很難不過我們都是努力在跟他們溝通也告訴他們有這樣的一個福利因為這一個我想這個部分我們經濟部這個實施起來不困難但是用心的做其實也是對民眾來說對他們來說也是對我們這個經濟部他們也會有很好的觀感我們通過這麼好的法"},{"start":13040.524,"end":13047.665,"text":"有沒有掌握就是說當然這個今年報稅完之後你有明確的數據那你們的掌握度大概如何"},{"start":13051.007,"end":13072.99,"text":"我們當然不會說一直等到9月這個數字拿到了因為我們認為能夠早一點加惠給這些中小微企業我們當然會全面的努力去做所以我們現在今年因為關稅的政策我們現在對中小微企業直接的給他們的協助"},{"start":13073.73,"end":13100.346,"text":"其實我們是做得非常的深我們從利用AI的學習來提升他們的效益然後利用ASCO來幫助他們降低成本所以這裡面包括很多包括也是一樣我們會跟他們介紹這些我們政府對中小微企業給他們哪一些福祉我想這一部分會擴大擴大讓他們知道這樣的一個生活"},{"start":13101.006,"end":13118.467,"text":"因為這個立法的美意我們希望是真的能夠加惠到對我們企業中小企業甚至我們一千萬的勞工我希望他們都可以有感但是最後一點就是說我們也不得不去預防就是有一些"},{"start":13119.728,"end":13139.251,"text":"这个可能企业他会不会利用模糊的加薪的定义透过会计的这个操作来获得减税优惠但实际上劳工并没有拿到增加的这样的薪资这个部分我们要请经济部这里也要特别的来注意是是谢谢委员垂询好OK"},{"start":13139.591,"end":13163.49,"text":"好謝謝徐欣盈委員那下一位請呂玉玲委員呂玉玲委員呂玉玲委員不在好最後一位是黃國昌委員好請黃委員謝謝主席麻煩有請經濟部部長以及地礦中心的主任還有台龐公司的代表好來請相關單位委員好"},{"start":13181.953,"end":13191.119,"text":"三位好 實際的關係不一問今天有問題比較具體一點所以部長如果不熟的話請台堂或是請地方國中心待會回答我沒有問題是 謝謝"},{"start":13193.482,"end":13212.215,"text":"之前我一直在追這個台龐的弊案國營事業的董事長拿來酬庸已經很扯了結果給你當國營事業的董事長胡搞瞎搞搞到納稅人賤賣國營事業的土地我講的就是無乃人賤賣國營事業的土地結果呢結果現在判刑確定了"},{"start":13222.048,"end":13244.309,"text":"官也官出來了問題是啊 欠納稅的錢啊 要還這為什麼我從去年就開始追啊你敢這樣胡搞瞎搞啊每一分每一毛啊 全部都要給我要回來所以我一直在追我們的台堂到底有沒有積極的去追討上一次我跟你們在討論的時候說沒辦法啊"},{"start":13247.915,"end":13257.219,"text":"我們就請他查 我們查不到他的財產啊那大碎人很困惑啊沒有財產出入club聊宇宙大爆炸奢侈晚宴開BMW7系列這什麼 這什麼跟什麼啊這社會還有基本的公平正義嗎還是只要有權有勢"},{"start":13276.598,"end":13299.7,"text":"我撈夠了 我撈飽了 納稅很了得 關我什麼事啊給皮皮啊所以我才要台堂啊 好好去追蹤啊我之前有建議你們啦 說依照強制執勤法的規定 命他據實報告財產狀況這件事台堂後來有沒有做有那個台中地院"},{"start":13301.493,"end":13329.959,"text":"台中的地院已經在3月25號的時候有請這個三位的要說出他的財產3月20號 今年3月20號嘛對 今年3月25 然後4月20號先停一下啦我們一樣一樣來嘛啊為什麼今年3月25才要他拒之報告財產狀況台中地院在幹嘛 在混喔欠多久啦等到在國會質詢啊台中地院才忽然想起來強制執行法怎麼規定啊"},{"start":13331.577,"end":13354.077,"text":"強制執行法不熟幹什麼民事執行處的法官啊不是啦我請你們去做的事你們有去做我就不會為難你聽得懂嗎我上次質詢的時候就問你們嘛有沒有要求法院命他報告財產狀況嘛那現在法院終於命他報告財產狀況了嘛報告的結果是什麼"},{"start":13359.642,"end":13378.034,"text":"包委員 這個吳乃人等人並沒有回報啦蛤 等一下提一下法院要吳乃人報告財產狀況 吳乃人沒有回報蛤 現在吳乃人是覺得怎麼樣法院要他報告財產狀況 他也給批批啊真的覺得自己是皇親國戚喔台中地院要求吳乃人報告財產狀況 吳乃連人甩都不甩台中地院接下來要做什麼事"},{"start":13389.92,"end":13404.007,"text":"台中地院是有什麼樣的動作我們不太清楚我們後來4月24號的時候我們台中就有給吳乃仁一封函要請他趕快歸還這個財產4月30號的時候我們台中已經有具體的請台中地院向台中法院要管收這三位"},{"start":13414.465,"end":13441.965,"text":"你有申請要管收無乃人了嘛管收的理由是什麼管收的理由是什麼沒有據實報告財產狀況要他報告連報告都不報告台中地方法院裁了沒有沒關係啊我們靜候靜候台中地方法院的判斷主席再一分鐘再一題就好了可以嗎好謝謝來請地礦中心"},{"start":13446.189,"end":13469.574,"text":"那個喔 我3月的時候有跟你們講 那個馬槽啊 在那邊噴煙啊然後你們答應我馬上要封 所以我親自跑一趟然後我親自去現場了以後 你們跟我說封好了那結果 然後你也跟我說4月會完工那結果來來來 看一下 測到5月去測 還有氣體冒出有超過10ppm的硫化氫 這是旁邊的機器啊"},{"start":13470.299,"end":13495.085,"text":"所以現在狀況到底怎麼樣 這個還要拖多久包委員 現在我們正在跟養管處做水保的申請還要跟那個水保署一起來申請那個時間的關係 我最後只跟你們講重點第一個 我跟你們講這件事你們答應我要做 結果做到現在還有10ppm的硫化金我沒有住在那裡"},{"start":13496.65,"end":13513.175,"text":"但是有人住在那裡那裡也很多遊客三月跟你們講結果到現在還在冒有毒氣體拜託你們不管是你們自己還是那邊的承包商這個事情趕快處理好不好是可以喔可以好 謝謝好 謝謝黃國昌黃委員"},{"start":13521.357,"end":13537.49,"text":"好 我們現在登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員呂玉玲所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會那我們現在"},{"start":13539.552,"end":13567.052,"text":"來處理114年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結等24案我們逐案處理第一案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有好沒有異議通過第二案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有好沒有異議通過第三案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有異議"},{"start":13567.853,"end":13590.788,"text":"好沒有異議通過第四案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第五案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第六案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第七案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過"},{"start":13591.648,"end":13607.192,"text":"第八案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有沒有異議通過第九案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有沒有異議通過第十案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有"},{"start":13607.532,"end":13635.275,"text":"沒有意義通過第11案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有意義沒有沒有意義通過第12案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有意義沒有沒有意義通過第13案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有意義沒有沒有意義通過第14案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有意義沒有意義沒有意義通過第15案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有意義沒有"},{"start":13635.555,"end":13636.596,"text":"沒有異議 通過沒有異議 通過沒有異議 通過沒有異議 通過"},{"start":13659.855,"end":13686.934,"text":"第20案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有異議沒有異議通過第21案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有異議沒有異議通過第22案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有異議沒有異議通過第23案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有異議沒有異議通過第24案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有異議沒有異議通過"},{"start":13687.794,"end":13712.153,"text":"好那我們就做以下決議經濟部及所屬預算解凍案第一案自第24案均同意動之並擬據報告提報院會好那我們現在來處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會主管預算凍結等7案我們逐案處理第一案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有"},{"start":13713.214,"end":13740.584,"text":"沒有異議通過第二案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第三案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第四案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第五案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過第六案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有無異議沒有沒有異議通過"},{"start":13741.184,"end":13765.644,"text":"第七案所列預算解凍案同意動之請問委員有異議沒有沒有異議通過好我們也做以下決議國家發展委員會預算凍結案第一案至第七案均同意動之並擬均報告提報院會好那我們就預算解凍案就處理到現在那這個相關部會如果跟等一下第三案沒有關係的就可以自行離開"},{"start":13768.442,"end":13769.346,"text":"好 我們現在繼續進行討論事項請宣讀第三案"},{"start":13773.22,"end":13798.762,"text":"第三案 繼續審查 1 行政行情審議個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案2 本院委員王美惠等18人理據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案3 本院委員羅廷懷等17人理據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案4 本院委員李坤城等16人理據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案5 本院委員郭怡情等19人理據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案"},{"start":13799.563,"end":13810.837,"text":"6.本院委員陳廷飛等事項擬具個人資料保護法第12條、第27條及第48條條文修正法案7.本院委員蔡宜等事項擬具個人資料保護法部分條文修正法案宣讀完畢"},{"start":13816.136,"end":13835.477,"text":"討論事項所列議案經紀委員會在5月8日第12次會議已詢答完畢之後院會又交付本委員會提案版本有三案我們並案審查我們請提案委員說明提案要職那好這個"},{"start":13838.467,"end":13866.246,"text":"請陳情輝委員陳情輝委員就如書面提案要指那我的部分一樣是如我的書面提案要指就不另外再說明好那行政機關的書面報告請委員參閱並列入公報記錄那我們進行審查個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案我們現在開始進行廣泛討論那是否有要登記沒有登記發言的話"},{"start":13867.046,"end":13872.256,"text":"我們就請議事人員宣讀所有條文若有修正動議及附帶決議請一併宣讀宣讀完畢後再進行協商請宣讀"},{"start":13877.114,"end":13904.225,"text":"個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案行政院提案第一條之一本法之主管機關為個人資料保護委員會第一條之二中央及地方各級政府應致力配合推動達成本法立法目的之具體措施確保其所轄公務機關及所管非公務機關於執行職務及業務時遵守本法規定共同建構安全可信賴之個人資料保護環境"},{"start":13905.546,"end":13925.061,"text":"被落实个人资料保护相关事项,主管机关得召开个人资料保护政策推进会议,其运作方式及其他相关事项之办法由主管机关定之。第十二条,公务机关或非公务机关之息所保有之个人资料被窃取、篡改、毁损。"},{"start":13926.102,"end":13941.433,"text":"滅失或洩漏時應通知當事人前項情形符合一定通報範圍者公務機關或非公務機關應通報下列機關依公務機關向主管機關及依第21條之一第一項規定"},{"start":13942.013,"end":13959.453,"text":"收受其实施情形之机关通报二非公务机关向主管机关通报主管机关受理通报后并转之其目的事业主管机关第一项情形公务机关或非公务机关应采取及时有效之应变措施"},{"start":13960.865,"end":13989.324,"text":"防止事故之扩大及记载相关事实影响已采取之因应措施并保存相关记录已被主管机关查验前三项应通知或通报之内容方式实现与通报范围应变措施记录保存及其他相关事项之办法由主管机关定之第十八条公务机关应自个人资料保护长由机关首长指派适当人员兼任"},{"start":13990.144,"end":14000.435,"text":"並配置適當人力及資源負責統籌推動及督導考核本機關所屬或所監督公務機關之個人資料保護相關事務"},{"start":14001.843,"end":14021.11,"text":"公務機關應指定專人辦理個人資料檔案安全維護事項防止個人資料被竊取篡改毀損滅失或洩漏其安全維護管理機制應採取之措施及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關定之公務機關不得因所屬人員"},{"start":14021.73,"end":14038.563,"text":"依法執行個人資料保護職務而予以不利之處分或管理措施主管機關應妥善規劃推動第一項及第二項相關人員之職能訓練增進其個人資料保護專業職能第一項第二項相關人員之職長"},{"start":14039.884,"end":14067.138,"text":"只能条件、训练及其他相关事项之办法由主管机关定之第二十条之一非公务机关保有个人资料档案者应办理安全维护事项防止个人资料被窃取篡改、毁损、灭失或泄露前项个人资料档案安全维护事项管理机制应采取之措施及其他相关事项之办法由主管机关定之"},{"start":14067.978,"end":14096.246,"text":"第21條非公務機關違國際傳輸個人資料而有下列情形之一者主管機關得限制之一涉及國家重大利益二國際條約或協定有特別規定三接受國對於個人資料之保護未有完善之法規致有損當事人權益之餘四以迂迴方法向第三國地區傳輸個人資料規避本法"},{"start":14097.54,"end":14117.178,"text":"第三章之一行政監督第一节对公务机关之监督第二十一条之一公务机关应每年向上级机关或监督机关提出个人资料保护管理事项实施情形无上级机关或监督机关者依下列各款规定办理一总统府"},{"start":14117.778,"end":14137.737,"text":"國家安全會議及五院向主管機關提出二直轄市政府直轄市議會縣市政府縣市議會向主管機關提出三直轄市山地原住民區公所直轄市山地原住民區民代表會向直轄市政府提出鄉鎮市公所"},{"start":14138.737,"end":14162.353,"text":"鄉鎮市民代表會向縣政府提出公務機關應督導及集合其所屬所監督之公務機關所轄鄉鎮市公所直轄市山地原住民區公所及鄉鎮市民代表會直轄市山地原住民區民代表會之個人資料保護管理事項實施情形依前項規定集合後"},{"start":14162.953,"end":14183.352,"text":"发现受集合机关实施情形有缺失或待改善者受集合机关因向集合机关提出改善报告并由集合机关审查后连同集合结果送交主管机关集合机关或主管机关任有必要时得要求受集合机关进行说明或调整"},{"start":14183.932,"end":14208.587,"text":"前四项实施情形之必要内容 集合之频率 内容与方法 结果之交付改善报告之提出及其他相关事项之办法 由主管机关定之第21条之二 主管机关得定期或不定期集合公务机关之个人资料保护管理事项实施情形必要时得请求前条第二项锁定集合机关协助"},{"start":14209.187,"end":14223.878,"text":"依前項規定集合後發現受集合機關實施情形有缺失或待改善者受集合機關應提出改善報告送交依前條第一項規定收受其實施情形之機關審查後由該審查機關"},{"start":14226.73,"end":14243.48,"text":"送交主管機關前項審查機關或主管機關任有必要時得要求受集合機關進行說明或調整前三項集合之頻率內容與方法改善報告之提出及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關定之"},{"start":14244.62,"end":14262.201,"text":"依前条及本条参与集合之人员对于应执行集合所知悉或所持有资料不保密义务第21条之三公务机关有违反本法规定之余时主管机关得请公务机关提出资料及说明"},{"start":14262.748,"end":14281.038,"text":"或派員攜帶執行職務證明文件進行實地檢查除因法規規定有保密之必要者外公務機關及其相關人員有配合之義務前項實地檢查必要時得請求第21條之一第二項鎖定集合機關協助參與檢查之人員對於因"},{"start":14284.7,"end":14311.394,"text":"执行检查所知悉或持有之资料不保密义务第21条之四公务机关有违反本法规定之情势者由主管机关另期限其改正该公务机关应依限为适当之改正并应将改正情形以书面答复主管机关公务机关未依前项规定改正者主管机关得公布其名称及其违法情形"},{"start":14312.134,"end":14321.905,"text":"公務機關所屬人員未依本法規定辦理者應按其情節輕重依相關法令規定於懲戒懲處或處罰"},{"start":14324.502,"end":14341.453,"text":"第21條之五本節之規定於情報機關不適用之第二節對非公務機關之監督第22條主管機關任非公務機關有違反本法規定之餘或未檢視其落實本法情形而任有必要時"},{"start":14342.614,"end":14371.549,"text":"得依下列方式進行檢查一通知非公務機關或其相關人員陳述意見二通知非公務機關或其相關人員提供必要之文書資料物品或為其他配合措施三自行或會同中央目的事業主管機關直轄市縣市政府或其他有關機關派員攜帶執行職務證明文件進入檢查並得令相關人員為必要之說明"},{"start":14372.082,"end":14392.58,"text":"配合措施或提供相关证明资料前项检视落实本法情形检查作业之规划评估方式考量因素综合目的事业主管机关职辖市县市政府或有关机关之协力事项及其他相关事项之办法由主管机关定之"},{"start":14393.567,"end":14409.871,"text":"主管機關為第一項檢查時,對於得目錄或可為證據之個人資料或其檔案,得扣留或複製之對於應扣留或複製之物,得要求其所有人、持有人或保管人提出或交付"},{"start":14410.371,"end":14429.111,"text":"無正當理由拒絕提出交付或抗拒扣留或複製者得採取對該非公務機關權益損害最少之方法強制為之對於依第一項或前項所為之通知進入檢查或處分非公務機關及其相關人員"},{"start":14429.791,"end":14452.337,"text":"無正當理由不得規避妨礙或拒絕主管機關為第一項第三款檢查時得率同資訊電信法律或其他專業人員共同為之參與檢查之人員對於應執行檢查所知悉或持有之資料不保密義務並應注意被檢查者之名譽"},{"start":14453.197,"end":14479.249,"text":"第一項檢查之執行主管機關於必要時得請求中央目的事業主管機關直辖市縣市政府或其他相關機關構配合採取有效措施或提供協助第二三條對於前條第三項扣留物或複製物應加封間或其他標示並為適當之處置其不便搬運或保管者得命"},{"start":14480.109,"end":14508.432,"text":"得命人看守或交由所有人或其他適當之人保管扣留物或複製物以無留存之必要或決定不予處罰或為沒入之裁處者應發還之但因沒入或為調查他案應留存者不在此限第24條非公務機關物資所有人持有人保管人或利害關係人對前二條之要求強制扣留或複製行為不符者"},{"start":14509.173,"end":14536.327,"text":"得向主管機關聲明異議前向聲明異議主管機關認為有理由者應立即停止或變更其行為認為無理由者得繼續執行經該聲明異議之人請求時應將聲明異議之理由製作記錄交付之對於主管機關前向決定不符者僅得於對該案件之實體決定聲明不符時以並聲明之"},{"start":14537.045,"end":14555.542,"text":"但第一项之人依法不得对该案件之实体决定,声明不符时,得单独对第一项之行为进行提起行政诉讼。第25条,非公务机关有违反本法规定之情事者,主管机关除依本法规定,才处罚房外。"},{"start":14556.685,"end":14580.781,"text":"並得為下列處分1.禁止蒐集、處理或利用個人資料2.命令刪除經處理之個人資料檔案3.沒入或令銷毀違法蒐集之個人資料4.公布違法情形及其姓名或名稱與負責人主管機關為前項處分時應於防止違反本法規定情勢之必要範圍內"},{"start":14582.15,"end":14586.489,"text":"採取對該非公務機關權益損害最少之方法為之"},{"start":14587.827,"end":14610.342,"text":"第26條主管機關1第22條規定檢查後未發現有違反本法規定之情勢者經該非公務機關同意後得公布檢查結果第27條刪除第41條意圖為自己或第三人不法之利益或損害他人之利益而違反第6條第一項第15條第16條第19條第20條第一項規定"},{"start":14614.785,"end":14635.619,"text":"或依第21条限制国际传输之命令或处分足深损害于他人者处5年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币100万元以下罚金第47条非公务机关有下列情事之一者由主管机关处新台币5万元以上"},{"start":14636.786,"end":14662.593,"text":"50萬元以下罰款並令限期改正藉其未改正者按次處罰之一違反第6條第一項規定二違反第19條規定三違反第20條第一項規定四違反一第21條規定所為限制國際傳輸之命令或處分第48條非公務機關有下列情勢之一者由主管機關令其限期改正"},{"start":14663.103,"end":14675.46,"text":"借其未改正者按次处新台币2万元以上20万元以下罚还1.违反第8条或第9条规定2.违反第10条第11条或第13条规定"},{"start":14676.61,"end":14700.993,"text":"3.違反第十二條第一項或依第四項鎖定辦法中有關通知之內容、方式或實現之規定4.違反第二十條第二項或第三項規定非公務機關違反第十二條第二項、第三項或依第四項鎖定辦法中有關通報之內容、方式實現應變措施記錄保存之規定者"},{"start":14702.332,"end":14724.191,"text":"由主管機關儲新台幣2萬元以上20萬元以下罰還並另期限期改正借其未改正者按次處罰非公務機關有下列情勢之一者由主管機關儲新台幣2萬元以上200萬元以下罰還並另期限期改正借其未改正者按次儲新台幣15萬元以上1500萬元以下罰還"},{"start":14726.857,"end":14753.875,"text":"一違反第20條之一第一項規定二違反一第20條之一第二項鎖定辦法中有關個人資料檔案安全維護事項管理機制應採取措施之規定三為一第51條之一第三項訂定個人資料檔案安全維護計畫或業務終止後個人資料處理方法四違反第51條之一第四項"},{"start":14754.798,"end":14781.586,"text":"锁定办法中有关计划或处理方法应具备之内容执行方式或基准之规定非公务机关有前项各款情势之一其情节重大者由主管机关处新台币15万元以上1500万元以下罚还并令其限期改正借其未改正者按次处罚第49条非公务机关违反第22条第4项规定者"},{"start":14782.113,"end":14808.16,"text":"由主管機關處新台幣2萬元以上20萬元以下罰還第51條之一第22條第一項第三項至第7項第23條至第26條第47條至第50條鎖定對非公務機關之監督管理事項於主管機關成立之日起6年內得由主管機關報請行政院公告一定範圍之非公務機關"},{"start":14809.488,"end":14822.036,"text":"仍由中央目的事業主管機關或直轄市縣市政府管轄主管機關應每二年會商相關機關後報請行政院調整簡列前項公告鎖定一定範圍"},{"start":14823.757,"end":14841.222,"text":"非公務機關中央目的事業主管機關得指定前二項公告範圍之非公務機關訂定個人資料檔案安全維護計畫或業務終止後個人資料處理方法前項計畫處理方法應具備之內容"},{"start":14842.202,"end":14871.751,"text":"执行方式或基准及其他相关事项之办法由中央目的事业主管机关比照主管机关一第20条之一第二项定定之办法定之并得为更严格之规定第52条第12条第二项第22条第一项第三项第5项第7项第23条及第24条规定由主管机关执行之权限主管机关得委托或委办"},{"start":14872.27,"end":14900.159,"text":"其他机关购行政法人或公益团体办理于前条第一项及第二项公告之范围内中央目的事业主管机关或直辖市县市政府得将第22条第一项第三项第五项第七项第23条及第24条规定之执行权限委任所属机关委托或委办其他机关购行政法人或公益团体办理"},{"start":14901.355,"end":14923.716,"text":"1.前二项规定受委托委办或委任者,其成员对于因执行相关事物所知悉或持有之资料赋保密义务。1.第一项及第二项之公益团体不得依第34条第一项规定接受当事人授予诉讼实施权,以自己之名义提起损害赔偿诉讼。"},{"start":14924.386,"end":14934.218,"text":"第53條主管機關應訂定特定目的及個人資料類別提供公務機關及非公務機關參考使用第53條之一"},{"start":14936.071,"end":14960.929,"text":"對主管機關依本法所為之行政處分不符者直接適用行政訴訟程序於第51條之一第一項第二項公告範圍內之非公務機關對中央目的事業主管機關或直轄市縣市政府依本法所為之行政處分不符者向主管機關提起訴願但行政處分系由中央行政機關"},{"start":14962.432,"end":14989.66,"text":"組織基準法所定之獨立機關所為者直接適用行政訴訟程序對本法中華民國圈年圈月圈日修正之條文施行前依本法所為之行政處分不符於修正實施後提起訴願者應向主管機關為之本法中華民國圈年圈月圈日修正之條文實施前已受理尚未"},{"start":14990.04,"end":14991.481,"text":"委員王美惠等18人提案"},{"start":15009.116,"end":15036.72,"text":"第一条之一同行政院提案第一条之二同行政院提案第十二条第一项据中灭失改为减失莫据修正为应于二十四小时内通知当事人第四项首据修正为前二项应通报之内容方式实现与通报范围应变措施记录保存及其他相关事项之办法其余同行政院提案第十八条同行政院提案"},{"start":15037.267,"end":15053.839,"text":"第20條之一同行政院提案 第21條同行政院提案 第三章之一張明同行政院提案 第一節杰明同行政院提案 第21條之一文字同行政院提案 第21條之二同行政院提案 第21條之三"},{"start":15055.39,"end":15083.522,"text":"同行政院提案第21條之四第一項倒數第二句該公務機關應一線為適當之改正與處置第二項第二句主管機關應公佈其名稱及其違法情形其餘同行政院提案第21條之五同行政院提案第二節解明同行政院提案第22條除第一項序文第二句或未檢視其落實本法情形"},{"start":15084.591,"end":15099.555,"text":"而认为有必要时,其余文字同行政院提案。第23条同行政院提案。第24条同行政院提案。第25条除第一项第三款及第四款,维持现行条文其余同行政院提案。"},{"start":15100.305,"end":15129.733,"text":"第26條同行政院提案第27條刪除第41條同行政院提案第47條同行政院提案第48條第一項序文第二句修正為由主管機關令限期改正第二款維持現行條文其餘同行政院提案第49條同行政院提案第51條之一除第一項第二句修正為於主管機關成立之日起四年內第二項首句修正為"},{"start":15130.441,"end":15155.414,"text":"主管機關因每一年會商相關機關後其餘文字同行政院提案第52條除第一項第二句修正為主管機關得委任或委辦其他機關構行政法人或公益團體辦理其餘文字同行政院提案第53條同行政院提案第53條之一同行政院提案第55條同行政院提案"},{"start":15156.431,"end":15168.89,"text":"委員羅廷偉等17人提案第一條之一同行政院提案第一條之二同行政院提案第12條同行政院提案第18條同行政院提案第20條之一同行政院提案"},{"start":15169.4,"end":15193.452,"text":"第21條同行政院提案第3章之1章名同行政院提案第1節結名同行政院提案第21條之1同行政院提案第21條之2同行政院提案第21條之3同行政院提案第21條之4同行政院提案第21條之5同行政院提案第2節結名同行政院提案"},{"start":15194.052,"end":15216.781,"text":"第22條同行政院提案第23條同行政院提案第24條同行政院提案第25條同行政院提案第26條同行政院提案第27條刪除第41條同行政院提案第47條同行政院提案第48條同行政院提案第49條同行政院提案第51條之一"},{"start":15218.177,"end":15233.818,"text":"除第一項第二具修正為與主管機關成立之日起五年內其餘文字同行政院提案第52條同行政院提案第53條同行政院提案第53條之一同行政院提案第55條同行政院提案"},{"start":15235.236,"end":15263.735,"text":"委員李昆城等16人提案第一條之一同行政院提案第一條之二同行政院提案第12條同行政院提案第18條同行政院提案第20條之一同行政院提案第21條同行政院提案第三章之一張明同行政院提案第一節杰明同行政院提案第21條之一同行政院提案第21條之二第一項前段為主管機關應每兩年定期集合"},{"start":15264.455,"end":15293.887,"text":"公务机关之个人资料保护管理四项实施情形第四项增订前三项集合之结果应每年定期主动公开其余同行政院提案第21条之三同行政院提案第21条之四同行政院提案第21条之五同行政院提案第二节结名同行政院提案第22条同行政院提案第23条同行政院提案第24条同行政院提案"},{"start":15294.622,"end":15322.28,"text":"第25條同行政院提案第26條同行政院提案第27條三除第41條同行政院提案第47條同行政院提案第48條同行政院提案第49條同行政院提案第51條之一同行政院提案第52條同行政院提案第53條同行政院提案第53條之一同行政院提案第55條同行政院提案"},{"start":15323.12,"end":15347.001,"text":"委員郭玉琴等19人提案第一條之一同行政院提案第一條之二同行政院提案第12條增訂第五項主管機關因每年編制事故統計報告報請行政院被查並公開發布其餘同行政院提案第18條同行政院提案第20條之一同行政院提案第21條同行政院提案"},{"start":15347.501,"end":15371.45,"text":"第三章之一张明同行政院提案第一节杰明同行政院提案第二十一条之一同行政院提案第二十一条之二同行政院提案第二十一条之三同行政院提案第二十一条之四同行政院提案第二十一条之五同行政院提案第二节杰明同行政院提案第二十二条同行政院提案第二十三条同行政院提案"},{"start":15371.977,"end":15399.915,"text":"第24條同行政院提案第25條同行政院提案第26條同行政院提案第27條刪除第41條同行政院提案第47條同行政院提案第48條同行政院提案第49條同行政院提案第51條之一同行政院提案第52條同行政院提案第53條同行政院提案第53條之一同行政院提案"},{"start":15400.595,"end":15424.313,"text":"第53條之二主管機關應設立個人資料保護諮詢及權益協助平台提供民眾協助法律諮詢及教育資源並定期辦理教育推廣及培訓課程各級政府應配合推廣資料素養教育將個人資料保護納入公民教育課程規劃第55條同行政院提案"},{"start":15425.885,"end":15447.382,"text":"委員陳庭飛等16人提案第12條同行政院提案第27條內容條文內容同行政院提案第20條之一第48條除第三項第一款及第二款所列違反之條次修正為第27條第三第四款刪除其餘同行政院提案"},{"start":15448.561,"end":15475.901,"text":"委員蔡宇等18人提案第一條之一同行政院提案第一條之二同行政院提案第12條同行政院提案第18條同行政院提案第20條之一同行政院提案第21條同行政院提案第三章之一章名同行政院提案第一節結名同行政院提案第21條之一同行政院提案第21條之二同行政院提案第21條之三同行政院提案"},{"start":15476.381,"end":15494.592,"text":"第21條知四同行政院提案第21條知五同行政院提案第二節解明同行政院提案第22條同行政院提案第23條同行政院提案第24條同行政院提案第25條同行政院提案第26條同行政院提案第27條"},{"start":15495.771,"end":15496.371,"text":"宣讀完畢好"},{"start":15524.625,"end":15546.09,"text":"那因為剛剛有跟謝昭偉討論一下所以我們今天就先處理到這裡就好所以我們本案定期繼續審查那本日議程所列報告及討論事項均已處理完畢謝謝大家我們現在散會"},{"start":15559.536,"end":15561.057,"text":"请不吝点赞订阅订阅"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}