{"error":false,"id":["166990"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166990,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166990","日期":"2026-01-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,35-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,35],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-08T11:01:57+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-08T11:14:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/125fd21c0e10f543708ae16714c073f7067a41bab2fb0fea1d89202e029a9f20686bf1ce6383841d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:01:57 - 11:14:12","會議時間":"2026-01-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王定宇等16人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張雅琳等18人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員李坤城等 19 人擬具「陸海空軍刑法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（五）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.945343750000001,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.286593750000002,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.320343750000003,"end":12.164093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.62784375,"end":15.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.93971875,"end":23.925968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.69909375,"end":18.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.410968750000002,"end":43.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.517843750000004,"end":46.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.92659375,"end":48.141593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.71534375,"end":57.203468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.60846875,"end":62.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.05909375,"end":66.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.24409375,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.25596875000001,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.99221875,"end":89.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":95.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.60659375,"end":97.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.72034375000001,"end":101.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.44534375,"end":104.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.80784375,"end":114.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.33784375,"end":122.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.42096875000001,"end":133.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.93409375000002,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.37659375,"end":139.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.16534375,"end":155.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.80409375000002,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.47471875000002,"end":161.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.98034375,"end":167.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.05534375000002,"end":169.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.42221875,"end":170.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.37534375,"end":174.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.80096875,"end":176.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.15096875,"end":177.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.50534375,"end":177.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.55159375000002,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.81096875,"end":193.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.57034375,"end":205.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.50096875000003,"end":221.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.05534375000002,"end":224.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.21096875,"end":231.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.58971875,"end":238.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.36909375000002,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.78721875,"end":273.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.41846875000005,"end":274.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.90784375000004,"end":289.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.78721875,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.57159375000003,"end":298.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.05596875000003,"end":305.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.09284375000004,"end":310.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.93596875000003,"end":312.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.70784375,"end":315.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.55971875,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.99284375,"end":327.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.23284375000003,"end":328.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.26659375,"end":328.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.95846875,"end":329.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.10596875000005,"end":345.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.42846875000004,"end":354.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.89534375,"end":356.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.64596875,"end":358.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.96221875000003,"end":368.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.88471875000005,"end":396.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.42471875,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.81034375,"end":416.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.19784375,"end":431.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.76096875,"end":432.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.44846875,"end":434.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.96721875000003,"end":438.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.21971875,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.85909375000006,"end":458.55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請中副部長那我也請法務部檢察司張司長請司長今天兩個主題一個我們來探討司法主權一個部分來講防範滲透就是今天的修法好 下一頁"},{"start":25.801,"end":47.296,"text":"當然就順著這個昨天被公布的所謂的台獨打手或者是台獨頑固分子中國要展現他的長臂管轄他的跨境鎮壓就是無所不用其極從行政官員到立法委員我本人我也是被國台辦公布的台獨打手幫兇"},{"start":48.757,"end":77.482,"text":"我還沒有晉級啦我還沒有從台獨打手幫兇成功晉級為台獨頑固分子我還會持續努力被中國這樣子的一個鎖定我想就是我們做對了很多事我們捍衛國家的主權我會持續努力喔但是對於我們的司法人員來進行這樣子的一個作為之前已經有三加一三位檢察官包括偵辦柯文哲案的檢察官"},{"start":77.782,"end":88.944,"text":"也被列為台獨大手而昨天是針對我們的這個陳淑儀檢察官所以我要就教於法務部我非常肯定部長昨天第一時間他所說的"},{"start":90.479,"end":114.19,"text":"這個我們絕對要捍衛我們司法從業從事人員的權益然後國家的司法主權是不容強害的我想部長講到了重點我非常同意您剛講的我們要保護強化保護我們的司法人員第二個也要給他們很強的一個教育"},{"start":115.407,"end":136.225,"text":"我們依國家的法治來進行任何司法的宣判基於證據基於專業這都是受到國家的保護跟社會的支持的但是呢中國這種要傷及司法主權這就有它政治的意圖喔那我來看下一頁"},{"start":137.441,"end":167.141,"text":"我也非常詫異某位蔡正元先生因為三中案正式的宣判即將要入獄服刑昨天鄭麗文國民黨的黨主席特別刻意的頒發實踐一等獎章我覺得很訝異國民黨要成為違法黨國民黨是在鼓勵犯罪嗎包括傅坤祺總召也說要大賣就要背幾條犯罪的案子"},{"start":168.522,"end":177.231,"text":"這種言論這種作為是不是也都在挑戰我們的司法來市長"},{"start":178.901,"end":197.872,"text":"跟委員報告那檢察官針對這個有任何犯罪嫌疑的這個行為我們都會據以偵辦那對於這個經過司法判決的這個確定案件呢那該執行的我們就會依法執行很好所以我們要支持檢察官因為法務部主管我們的檢查系統"},{"start":199.233,"end":224.391,"text":"依法執行證據跟專業是他們最強的偵辦的支持跟後盾所以司法的公信力要被摧毀要被削弱甚至長臂管轄來危及台灣的司法主權跟在野黨聯手要削弱國人對於司法的正當性其實我認為這是一套劇本"},{"start":225.271,"end":238.264,"text":"我們就要看得清楚 理個明白但是我們持續做對的事 下一頁但是在國軍也是一樣 副部長我們也曾經有兩批被國台辦所發布的"},{"start":239.457,"end":261.038,"text":"罪名是網路攻擊滲透有20名我們的這個資通電軍的成員另外一批呢是去年10月罪名是謀劃分裂國家18名台灣的新戰大隊我們的國軍啊剛剛從司法官司法人員到國軍也受到中國這樣的跨境鎮壓"},{"start":263.977,"end":287.47,"text":"還沒進入今天的主題之前就讓我們看到一件事情中國的滲透是非常的具體一點都不抽象對不對剛剛在野黨委員一直在說對敵效忠好抽象喔那我倒要問這些敵方境外敵對勢力對我國司法人員的長臂管轄對我國國軍人員來"},{"start":291.071,"end":305.031,"text":"進行他的職務忠誠為國家做他該做的事情要被這樣殺雞儆猴敵人的意圖再明確也不過了一點都不抽象不是嗎"},{"start":306.232,"end":324.335,"text":"所以我們今天的法律的規定規範修法的方向不是再明確也不過的事嗎 背景就在這裡嗎副部長我們對於這些星戰大隊跟資通電軍的成員們我們是不是也如同司法部門一樣給予必要的保護 必要的教育"},{"start":325.049,"end":354.108,"text":"目前已經有採取必要的措施好那下一頁所以我再次用這個表格來告訴大家共諜的滲透軍人軍方佔五成以上的比例所以再具體也不過了一點都不抽象就是今天我們為什麼要啟動修法再具體也不過了當敵人的意圖這麼的清晰為什麼有在野黨的委員持續要來做這些非常模糊的操作"},{"start":354.989,"end":366.989,"text":"我們都看得非常清楚下一頁過去司法院釋字430號很具體的說軍人與國家有公法上的職務關係負有高度的忠誠義務這沒有問題"},{"start":368.979,"end":394.998,"text":"如果簽署校中書拍攝影片承諾在暫時為祖國效力就已經構成了違背職務的行為剛剛在黨委員一直說司法院今天的意見寫得很好他們今天突然從反對司法院鬥臭司法到今天鬥臭司法院寫得好棒棒那我也請這些藍白的委員看看大法官已經解釋了如果為敵來進行這些事情是不是就是違背職務嗎"},{"start":396.559,"end":416.43,"text":"所以我提供大法官的解釋給國防部也可以做論述的參考而第二 貪污治罪條例的違背職務收賄罪是現在檢察官僅能夠拿來偵辦的一個法條這跟對敵效忠黑就是天地差很大嘛"},{"start":417.307,"end":432.043,"text":"所以因為現有的法規的不足以及大法官的解釋已經清楚的講了軍人跟國家公法上的職務關係具有高度的忠誠義務都驗證了我們今天的修法是沒有問題的勇敢去做下一頁"},{"start":433.493,"end":457.696,"text":"案例在這裡喔2019年有這個陸軍部部訓部上校向德恩遭中國吸收2019年開始收賄簽署投降承諾書所以只能夠用貪污治罪條例判對不對這就是今天我們為什麼要修法因為沒有對稱的法條在陸海控軍刑法裡頭簽頁"},{"start":460.185,"end":480.94,"text":"副部長收賄然後簽署投降承諾書是不是再具體也不過了是不是就是對敵投降效忠對不對所以這哪裡抽象他有清楚的行動啊有清楚的言語啊有清楚的表示啊哪裡抽象在下一個"},{"start":481.781,"end":499.036,"text":"案例在這裡2021年又有這麼多位向敵人表示疏成而且是具體拍星戰的投降影片的這位陸俊芳跟吳志朋他們再具體也不過了對不對拍星戰影片為匪宣傳哪裡抽象"},{"start":501.738,"end":511.531,"text":"但是這些人檢察官也只能夠用貪污治罪條例去辦他很奇怪下一頁所以說今天的修法只有一條只有一條"},{"start":513.257,"end":535.725,"text":"我不曉得這個會期萬事再爭議的法案再大的新立法都可以敬附二讀不討論不議而決現在為了陸海空軍洗髮一條要要求召開好多場公聽會藍白委員實在是很雙標只有一個條文如果藍白委員對於這個修法"},{"start":536.585,"end":564.904,"text":"新增一項單條新增一項有任何的意見歡迎提對案有任何的意見提出你具體的主張而不是擋著不休這是我的看法所以說提高不盡其責降抵者的刑責要提高增定不盡其責降抵者之欲被犯之處處罰我支持還有要增定最後一項對敵人效忠之表示罪這個表示再清楚也不過了法律只能夠定原則規範"},{"start":566.585,"end":588.151,"text":"具體的內容還是要交給我們的執法人員檢察官法官在偵辦的時候去認定他的行為法律不可能寫到很細剛剛委員說的我按了一個讚唱了一首歌手機放了一個解放軍美女的照片會不會就是對狄孝中就會被判不會嘛你們講的很清楚嘛"},{"start":589.522,"end":600.57,"text":"我倒是要想到過去唱了什麼歌講了什麼話會被抓去判刑的就是過去在台灣長期一黨執政的中國國民黨"},{"start":601.86,"end":629.375,"text":"白色恐怖就是這樣臭瓜抓起來臭瓜有勁哥不可以講台語那種白色恐怖倒是過去國民黨委員他們要去檢討這是國民黨的專善所以最後司法院的專業意見我非常尊重但我也希望在野黨的委員今天突然一夕之間把司法院捧得你好棒棒那麼拜託不要再來推翻憲法法庭"},{"start":630.799,"end":640.344,"text":"的憲法解釋吧不要再來什麼搞對五位大法官的提告吧一夕之間為了阻擋你們不敢得罪中國的修法"},{"start":641.943,"end":670.742,"text":"然後拿司法院的這些解釋司法院的解釋也沒有錯誤啊他提醒了立法院在審查的時候要去更細緻的去做很多的思考但司法院沒有推翻這個修法不應當進行討論不是嗎所以今天突然把司法院捧得這麼高的委員那也謝謝你們終於肯定司法院的法律專業所以最終喔我想司法的主權不容強害我們的國軍"},{"start":673.222,"end":690.589,"text":"對國家忠誠的義務也不能夠有任何的退讓這個條文我認為非常具體毫不抽象而且法律就是規範原則性如果內容這些到底有哪些東西修法時候歡迎在一檔委員提出你的版本來討論"},{"start":691.689,"end":708.418,"text":"來具體討論而不是把抽象拿作一個阻卻修法的理由而至於如果任何的軍人違反了這些條例的內容那就交給司法人員去就事時去釐清不是靠法律文字就要把細節都定得很清楚"},{"start":709.418,"end":732.784,"text":"這是我們立法者的基本ABC啊所以我支持我們的教委我們就照程序走然後絕對會讓在野黨的委員充分表達意見只有一個條文 只有一個條文比起在野黨禁覆二讀一整部新的立法都可以不一而決可以讓在野黨的委員好好思考他們到底如何踐踏了台灣的國會民主辛苦大家 繼續加油 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}