{"error":false,"id":["167007"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167007,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167007","日期":"2026-01-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-08T12:19:29+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-08T12:32:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/125fd21c0e10f54337b1294a98a28397324c55f2e48b25a91ff8743ff8a8cb9b1c587096f49c00dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:19:29 - 12:32:40","會議時間":"2026-01-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員陳秀寳等22人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「大學法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員柯志恩等21人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n八、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員翁曉玲等 16 人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員林月琴等17人擬具「大學法第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.662218750000001,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.31159375,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.859718750000003,"end":19.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.12096875,"end":18.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.454093750000002,"end":19.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.46659375,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.27034375,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.27659375,"end":92.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.01221875,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.04159375,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.16784375,"end":135.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.75221875,"end":161.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.13221875000002,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.67534375000002,"end":170.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":172.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.45971875,"end":184.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.59284375000001,"end":185.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.99346875,"end":188.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.54159375,"end":197.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.46409375000002,"end":208.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.96034375000002,"end":223.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.60096875000002,"end":214.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.59159375000002,"end":220.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.84034375000002,"end":221.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.18159375000002,"end":232.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.41659375,"end":232.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.58534375000002,"end":244.71846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.83659375000002,"end":247.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.12721875000003,"end":263.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.39909375,"end":270.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.62659375000004,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.85784375000003,"end":279.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.91971875,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.64534375,"end":299.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.79409375,"end":308.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.11346875000004,"end":313.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.24346875000003,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.84409375,"end":332.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.02971875000003,"end":334.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.06346875,"end":332.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.86471875,"end":335.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.13034375,"end":358.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.00034375,"end":359.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.68784375,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.03784375000004,"end":362.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.69159375000004,"end":364.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.29471875,"end":369.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.27284375000005,"end":391.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.59346875,"end":369.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.51221875000005,"end":377.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.70596875,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.30909375000005,"end":381.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.33346875,"end":386.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.32846875,"end":391.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.34534375000004,"end":392.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.35784375000003,"end":395.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.12534375,"end":395.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.39534375000005,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.98909375000005,"end":425.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.57096875,"end":406.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.78409375,"end":419.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.14159375,"end":429.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.21284375000005,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.83721875000003,"end":444.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.67034375000003,"end":446.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.35784375000003,"end":458.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.25034375,"end":466.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.74284375,"end":470.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.97846875000005,"end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麻煩請次長還有國教署好 請副市長跟國教署代表副署長上好我先來關心一個國教狀況因為我之前曾經也有提過現在因為行政大逃亡很多學校高中 國中都有這個狀況"},{"start":31.491,"end":60.163,"text":"就是他們要招學務處的組長都招不到一般來說都是先叫老師兼老師不願意兼因為工作太繁重所以就找代理老師代理老師前兩招是找有教師證的也都招不到後來就找沒有教師證的代理教師然後有的坐一下就離開坐一下要離開所以其實我有提出一個想法之前教育部跟考試院也願意評估就是說有沒有可能讓"},{"start":61.883,"end":82.079,"text":"學務處 比如說升教組或是相關組內的行政人員像幹事 他們是經過教育行政考進去的幹事來代理 甚至來升任來解決這個行政大逃亡的狀況然後一方面讓老師教學回歸教學行政來做行政"},{"start":83.942,"end":92.036,"text":"教育部跟當時人事警政總處有說願意評估我現在更進一步具體的建議一個事情我們現在看一下"},{"start":93.066,"end":116.28,"text":"我们现在教育行政的高普考的科目,其实它都不是学生事务的专业,这个次长你也可以来看一下,不是学生事务专业,因为现在学生事务专业,它的关键的领域都非常的复杂,它牵涉到像性贫,霸凌,校园危机处理,药物滥用,多元文化,还有高风险的学生辅导等等。"},{"start":116.9,"end":135.418,"text":"那你現在如果讓現場的教師來處理的話那教師原本進到學校都是要教學啊就忽然間你要他來處理這些事務啊我覺得他也會面臨很高的法律風險然後甚至於就是會也會面臨到很多不確定的狀況那如果讓就是"},{"start":136.843,"end":161.231,"text":"比如說沒有教師證的代理老師來監來處理這麼複雜的學生事務如果沒有受過相關的訓練一樣也會讓這些代理老師面臨到風險所以這邊具體建議一件事情假設教育部有願意讓公務人員就是考教育行政的公務人員來做這麼複雜的專業的行政工作的話是不是可以"},{"start":162.873,"end":184.867,"text":"從這個教育行政這個職系裡面獨立出來一個教育學生事務的職系那這個幾件幾個內容第一個內容如果要有這個獨立的職系的話那你考試的科目就要跟我剛剛講的這些相關的關鍵領域譬如說性平霸凌校園危機處理這方面校安有相關"},{"start":186.107,"end":208.29,"text":"然後第二就是假設他們考進去這個職系之後他分發到學校裡面那他的工作你就把它範圍就定在這些專業的行政工作然後用這種方式來舒緩就是現在在國教學校的這個教學現場行政大逃亡狀況不知道市長你覺得可行嗎"},{"start":209.008,"end":230.697,"text":"是 謝謝委員指導我想現在因為已經有在跟人總在評估由公務人員來兼任學務主任的一個可行性主長主長的可行性如果更進一步的從那個直系的一個劃分跟應考科目做處理我想我們可以來跟考選部這邊做一些討論"},{"start":233.739,"end":246.584,"text":"第一個就是你可以把這個納進去第二個在師培的部分因為師培就跟高教比較相關因為都是在大學裡面開相關的科系跟學分你也可以稍微檢視一下我會特別提出來真的是因為現在"},{"start":248.571,"end":270.14,"text":"我們現在教育環境跟以前真的很不一樣老師也沒有管教權了都要用什麼自主學習輔導用這種方式去跟學生去處理學生的關係其實變得非常的複雜所以其實應該要檢視一下就是你現在上的課在教程裡面上的課跟實務現場有沒有巨大的落差"},{"start":271.144,"end":299.398,"text":"不然的話他在上那個教程的時候他聽起來理論上是這樣怎麼大家到了那個學校去發現怎麼跟那個都講得不一樣然後等到他如果說等到他才去實習的時候因為教程是你要考教師證是先修教程再去實習等到他去實習才發現這個狀況有時候又想要問老師也沒機會了這個部分我覺得在教程方面你應該也要納進去討論這是第一件事情第二件事情是"},{"start":300.851,"end":307.959,"text":"現在少子化所以很多私校都退場可是我們看到一個數據我要來請教一下次長"},{"start":309.158,"end":333.757,"text":"就是這些學生他的學校如果說關校了然後他的休退學的比例是特別很高你可以看很高有的到四成有的到三成八有的到兩成四請問一下次長大部分學生如果他原來的學校退場他不願意繼續就學的原因是什麼"},{"start":336.175,"end":363.658,"text":"因為基本上我們在處理退場學校的時候都會幫學生做好安置而且安置的部分會盡量的第一個會當然以鄰近同性子的學校為優先第二個我們會提供住宿的補貼交通的補貼第三個他在休息的一些學分或是學費的差距我們都會來協助所以他退場的原因是什麼就是他不繼續練的原因為什麼 對啊所以你們都沒有在追蹤"},{"start":364.772,"end":390.945,"text":"應該是說因為我們都會去逐一的詢問學生你要安置到哪個學校你剛剛講的意思是說假設他沒有辦法安排到鄰近的學校他可能要安排到外縣市去他會延伸住宿跟通勤費各方面你們會補助嘛所以他不願意繼續就學的原因應該不是經濟的問題那有可能是因為沒有辦法安置到他想要讀的科系是不是"},{"start":391.405,"end":406.604,"text":"其实我们科学第一个这样听你讲你只有回答说不是经济问题但你没有具体回答我的问题的核心它是什么原因不愿意继续念它是什么原因所以你们要去统计那都是牵涉到追踪"},{"start":407.665,"end":424.566,"text":"你今天教育部當然因為少子化關係教育部安排這些大學退場這是一個趨勢這也沒有辦法可是你不能夠把風險放在學生身上嘛尤其是你現在大學的一個退場的做法是你第一年停招第二年就停辦是不是很多學校是這樣"},{"start":426.189,"end":443.854,"text":"第一年停招第二年停辦有沒有很多學校是這樣那你第一年停招你第一年停招那那個學校是不是有大一大二大三的學生第二年停辦的還有三個年級的學生就必須要被安置這個做法實際上是把風險轉嫁到這些還在學校的學生身上"},{"start":444.761,"end":458.451,"text":"所以你要去追蹤嘛你要去追蹤他們被迫轉學之後他是什麼原因不繼續讀啊難道你會希望說有學生在學校好好的因為學校倒了沒有辦法繼續下去他就不就學你會希望這樣嗎"},{"start":460.119,"end":477.088,"text":"當然不希望嘛所以這個數字就偏高嘛所以請教育部去追蹤好不好去追蹤一下然後你一個月內跟我們講一下相關的原因狀況跟我們講好不好然後再來還有一個現象"},{"start":479.544,"end":485.427,"text":"現在也請教育部來注意一下就是你們現在108課綱有一個學習歷程檔案學習歷程檔案現在願意教的學生也越來越少了"},{"start":499.84,"end":513.009,"text":"你可以看一下最新的資料112學年度一般學生大概沒有提交已經到47.32%經濟弱勢學生62.32%這個比例市長你覺得正常嗎因為學習歷程大概是他升大學的一個參考"},{"start":521.335,"end":542.19,"text":"那你們當初108課剛訂這個學習歷程檔案是希望學生在學習的過程當中自我探索把學習歷程記錄下來然後讓大學作為一個收學生的參考那你當時會希望說大概有將近五成六成的學生不教嗎"},{"start":543.411,"end":565.523,"text":"我跟委員報告因為在當時108我們在做整個考招變革的時候學習歷程檔案就是原來的備審資料那時候我們對外一個宣示就是說這個是學生可以選擇的你可以選擇透過我們學習歷程檔案的時候上傳你也可以來如果說有些學生因為他個人選擇他希望還是用書面的方式呈現"},{"start":566.303,"end":594.696,"text":"那這個部分有人選這個但是我們會告訴他說你選這個當然你的一些公信力資料的一個準確性大學就比較沒把握那這部分是讓學生自己選擇所以我們並沒有去強迫說每個學生一定要做對 你沒有強迫啦因為你訂出這一個指標出來嘛我不知道你有沒有你會希望說大家教得多一點嗎你希望嘛 對不對對 因為透過這個上到對大學來講"},{"start":595.216,"end":620.394,"text":"他透过系统出来的他就知道他的那个真实性会比较高按照教育部的想法其实是希望说大家有教可是实际上你的希望跟现实就是有点落差而且他有逐年提高你看未提交的比例在110全年度其实算低可是到近年已经翻三倍了接近三倍了那你有没有去了解原因"},{"start":621.968,"end":646.986,"text":"這個部分我想書裡面應該有在了解會後我們是把這個好不好再資料還有一個你看一下那個老師幫我轉到那個老師被學生攻擊的這個這是我們跟教育部調資料近三年學生對教師衝突案件統計表114年度也蠻高的就是也是逐年上升現在的教學現場就是老師沒有管教權如果面對比較"},{"start":648.476,"end":669.428,"text":"不好管教的學生其實老師面臨到的風險也高那相對其他同學面臨到的風險也很高我有接觸到教學現場有人跟我反應家長很擔心自己的小朋友因為他們班上就有一個會傷害傷害同學的同學那當然我知道學校也盡量去處置啦譬如說"},{"start":670.951,"end":699.209,"text":"當那個學生他們感覺他可能情緒情緒要發作的時候他們會把學生帶離班級現場就是如果當事學生他沒辦法自己被帶離那就全班帶離但是還是會有風險那所以家長就會不斷的跟學校詢問說你怎麼保護我的學生你怎麼保護我的小孩就一直問一直問一直問那最後學校說我們盡量我們有一個SOP可是當然SOP一定也會有意外發生那所以如果有受傷的話"},{"start":700.33,"end":721.124,"text":"所以你就去告那個同學那家長聽到也會覺得很無奈啊老師也是啊老師如果說他在教學現場如果被學生傷害怎麼辦他也只能去提告啊現在就是說老師跟同學其實有的時候面臨到這個狀況都很難處理啦我不知道這個教育部有沒有什麼因應之道"},{"start":722.23,"end":740.747,"text":"跟文報告我想說針對於現場有這類型的學生我們還是會從學生輔導的角度及時的介入不管是我跟你講這個學生輔導我都聽很久了如果學生輔導你們講的所謂的學生輔導有用的話在現在有用真的這個狀況不會這麼頻繁"},{"start":744.035,"end":761.653,"text":"所以不會這麼頻繁即時的介入那當然即時的介入不管是老師介入還是有專職的輔導人員介入我們部裡面給他的支持跟他適當的一個徵人這就很重要所以這也是目前我們署裡面有在規劃的"},{"start":762.774,"end":787.232,"text":"這部分跟家長這方面的跟這位當事學生的家長的聯繫這個我想這是三方面要一起來做啦但是我還是強調即時的介入處理是最重要的沒有 你們講的都理論派嘛我講的是實務嘛 實務狀況嘛那現在數據也給你看嘛就是學生對教室衝突案件也越來越增加這個狀況注意一下好不好好 這個很重要謝謝"},{"start":789.69,"end":791.099,"text":"好 謝謝葉元之委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}