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Tahovecahe等19人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員林月琴等17人擬具「大學法第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9422187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.25221875,"end":16.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.551593750000002,"end":17.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.12096875,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.829093750000002,"end":23.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.044093750000002,"end":24.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.39409375,"end":28.094093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.190968750000003,"end":51.415343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.955343750000004,"end":67.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.72909375,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.79971875000001,"end":79.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.43596875,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.13596875,"end":88.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.60346875,"end":91.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.51034375,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.67034375,"end":93.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.82221875,"end":94.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.02471875,"end":94.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.04159375,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.10909375,"end":94.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.24409375,"end":231.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.41659375,"end":245.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.95034375,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.43909375,"end":260.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.10846875000004,"end":261.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.86346875000004,"end":276.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.95409375,"end":277.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.77659375,"end":277.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.87784375,"end":278.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.29971875,"end":278.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.40096875,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.02534375,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.04221875,"end":279.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.11346875000004,"end":312.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.75846875,"end":332.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.21096875,"end":334.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.23596875000004,"end":336.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.02909375,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.07971875000004,"end":336.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.87284375,"end":336.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.90659375,"end":337.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.54784375,"end":337.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.11721875,"end":342.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.40784375000004,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.96784375000004,"end":373.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.69409375000004,"end":389.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.40471875000003,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.02909375,"end":392.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.69534375,"end":395.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.12096875000003,"end":401.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.41159375,"end":404.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.93409375000005,"end":404.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.94659375000003,"end":404.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.96346875,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.48659375000005,"end":406.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.50346875,"end":409.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.03471875,"end":408.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.36784375,"end":410.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.77284375000005,"end":410.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.44784375,"end":410.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.61659375000005,"end":410.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.68409375000005,"end":419.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.21971875,"end":413.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.35784375000003,"end":427.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.91346875000005,"end":471.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.72659375,"end":435.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.84471875,"end":435.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.92909375000005,"end":435.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.56909375000004,"end":475.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.39534375000005,"end":482.62221875000006},{"sp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謝謝主席有請朱次長好 請朱次長委員好次長好我想20年的討論"},{"start":29.232,"end":50.189,"text":"不可能在兩天內就一切都解決啦你們現在這份報告整理所有其他人的說法然後就說1月22 23還要再聽其他人說法再聽下去會不會再一個20年啊2005年來這個我們的大學法修正超過20年來沒有進行全盤的檢討"},{"start":52.355,"end":67.656,"text":"20年前2005年是什麼狀態沒有iPhone當年還是3310的年代我們現在用3310年代的大學法規在做我們的高教的治理這樣合理嗎所以次長下個會期有沒有機會願版送進來立院審查"},{"start":69.312,"end":88.279,"text":"更穩報告 這是我們努力目標我們在2022 23我們跟下長會議執行意見之後這個我們都知道了 報告都寫了下個會期提出來 會提出我們的一個共識的版本那接下來也想問一下次長沒有學生會有學校嗎"},{"start":89.636,"end":108.288,"text":"沒有學生會有學校嗎學生是我們學校非常重要的主題不只是非常重要吧沒有學生就沒有學校吧認同吧是是嘛所以您剛剛有一句話講得很好啊我們在校長領選的時候要有代表性的人參與嘛學生有沒有代表性"},{"start":108.908,"end":137.071,"text":"有有嘛所以呢我們現在想要看公私立大學的校長臨選委員會就應該要明定有學生代表去納入嘛那我們12月底剛通過三讀的這個青年基本法也明定了兩年內要完備相關的法制18歲的青年要有選舉罷免創制複決的權益我們青年要擁有這樣的權益了結果不能決定自己校門裡面的事啊"},{"start":137.965,"end":154.846,"text":"這個不會太荒謬了嗎那我們看到你們教育部提供的資料謝謝你們做了統計到了2025年的7月教育部所屬的45所國立大學的校院已經有29校在校長遴選的規章裡面有學生代表一人"},{"start":157.25,"end":173.765,"text":"64%既然大學端已經確認實務上可行了那就可以加速推動立法為什麼不能做那還有很多人會說那各國的情況呢我們已經都整理好了德國的族群大學治理模式裡面就有學生共同參與決策"},{"start":175.006,"end":190.857,"text":"美國的大學校長領選不論公私立也都有比如說私立的哈佛大學就有學生可以直接參與甚至直接寄發40萬封的信件給所有的師生裡面也有學生諮詢委員會"},{"start":192.418,"end":218.057,"text":"那也不用擔心最終董事會還是可以由董事會來做決定所以台灣的私校也可以用相同的模式所以次長我們今天既然有這個大學法的詢答能不能你幫我們表達一下你們教育部真實的意見不要講說20年我告訴各位1908年胡適就在爭取學生自治"},{"start":219.397,"end":244.855,"text":"當時啊 160名學生覺得學生自治沒有被重視直接放而退學 成立新公學一個超過一百年的學生爭取的東西你現在不表達意見整理什麼公民團體啦 學校啦你再整理兩天也整理不完嘛我再給你兩百年也整理不完可不可以表達一下明確的表達支持跟肯定"},{"start":245.987,"end":260.613,"text":"公立大學校長領選委員會可以納入學生代表可不可以好 跟委員報告這個方向就是教育部努力的目標好那因為公立大學目前確實像委員講我剛剛更正一下就是29校已經有學生代表在裡面我幫你算好 64%對"},{"start":262.014,"end":277.65,"text":"那另外在私立學校我也可以看到我們有整理出來私立學校對這一塊是比較保留但是教育部目前也認為以校長遴選必須要有代表性跟多元性所以我們也會努力的朝這方面來跟私校所以支持入法的方向嘛"},{"start":278.03,"end":304.596,"text":"對不對這塊我們會好 謝謝點頭了所以我們就這個態度很棒你們把這樣的態度放到這個報告裡面我想我們今天這個詢答真的會大家會非常非常的感動那我想第二個要跟次長探討的修法方向是大學教師的評鑑制度本席也是來自教學現場尤其是大學我們發現有很多評鑑制度殘害教師權益的狀況"},{"start":305.876,"end":311.514,"text":"大學法第21條規定是什麼呢評鑑的制度是在協助教師"},{"start":312.881,"end":335.72,"text":"我直接念出來啦教學專業發展改善教學品質我講的這十二個字六個六個一組裡面有哪兩個字是最重要的市長你可以說嗎教學結果咧現在我們看到大學的現場行政權介入論文掛帥這符合嗎這符合嗎"},{"start":339.421,"end":366.505,"text":"跟委員報告 評鑑來講因為大學來講教學服務研究是三塊那主要評鑑還是在教學跟研究因為教學跟研究其實某種程度沒有 等一下嘛對不起 次長我剛剛就說六個字六個字一組哪一個字是重點教學嘛你現在突然又把研究偷渡進來顯然就不符合大學法規嘛那我們也根據監察院113年的調查報告就講了有萬年助理教授的現象"},{"start":367.245,"end":391.814,"text":"為什麼萬年 明明就是教學教學你就硬要給他搞一個研究研究我們就要講 有非常多狀況甚至還要講說 你要捐錢要多上課 有多捐錢的可以加分多上課 超中點費的可以加分你們有沒有去檢討有沒有說學校不可以這樣做有 各位報告"},{"start":392.934,"end":418.404,"text":"過去很多學校把它不當了去跟招生跟一些行政服務掛鉤這個教育部有告記兩次都有多次嚴正的去要求嚴正要求有沒有辦法學校只要違法的我們一定會從招生名額加補助去處理違什麼法你告訴我違什麼法違什麼法我們就是要用大學法來明確的去優化這個狀況你們就沒有具體改善"},{"start":419.56,"end":426.433,"text":"所以我們想要講啦我想大家的心是一致的但是現在執行上就是有困難"},{"start":427.984,"end":453.009,"text":"我想還不只是評鑑未過的狀況還有一個什麼專案教師專案教師你聽過嗎一樣監察院也來糾舉教育部這是他的說法我以下講的全部是監察院的詞彙教育部放任大學以大量專案教師長期替代編制內的專任教師的員額"},{"start":454.329,"end":475.182,"text":"背離政策的目的都讀過吧監察院的糾正吧我用的形容詞全部是監察院使用的我沒有加油添醋喔最後呢說工作環境薪酬不合理的情形置若罔聞啊教育部的做法你知道是什麼嗎市長你知道教育部的做法是什麼嗎"},{"start":476.648,"end":497.602,"text":"上限令 上限令砍一個專案教師給十萬對不對 知道嘛 對不對我們是希望引導他轉正而不是去引導轉正那我好啊 引導轉正結果咧你知道數字嗎 你知道數字嗎 次長106年到113年專案教師變少還變多你如果引導那專案教師應該變少嘛變少還變多"},{"start":501.839,"end":518.911,"text":"市長變少還變多我時間有限106到113變少還變多有增加一些什麼增加一些4%變6%這叫增加一些喔這叫增加一些喔到6.64%的老師是專案教師在高校體系合理嗎"},{"start":520.974,"end":542.527,"text":"這個我們不用修改嗎這個你可以用一份這樣的報告說A說 B說 C說 D說可以這樣子嗎市長這一次大學法為什麼大家很急很希望討論我知道很多人還有很多意見都很好但是教育部的態度要拿出來教師權益受到侵害"},{"start":543.527,"end":569.034,"text":"教育部就是要出來保護大家教師權益受到侵害學生家長就受到侵害能不能當場承諾支持大學法修法重新檢討教師評鑑制度支不支持好 這應該的好 謝謝次長我想教育部的次長在這裡真的是勇於認識剛剛我們兩個訴求都直接勇於說我們支持"},{"start":569.634,"end":587.627,"text":"那我也希望接下來22號 23號大家會有很完整充分的討論下一步 下一次出來的意見希望能夠有自己的看法不要擔心 不要害怕你們一定站在人民這裡人民也會站在你們這裡接下來 次長我們要來談到AI高校的議題"},{"start":589.669,"end":600.618,"text":"當然過去的事我們還是要處理未來的事我們也要看接下來高教的議題您認為AI的發展對大學文憑來講利多還是利空"},{"start":602.418,"end":624.54,"text":"大學文憑 增值還是貶值利弊互見其實有利多有利空 我個人的觀察一半一半 沒關係 大家各自有各自的看法那我們直接幫你整理了這個Gallup有調查 2025年只有35%的美國人認為大學教育非常重要在2010年的時候是75%"},{"start":626.121,"end":650.44,"text":"那認為大學教育不太重要的人數從2010年的4%攀升到25%哈佛大學也做了研究其實Freshman不受歡迎剛大學畢業以前我們都講大學畢業即失業很不好的一句話很可能因為AI要變成事實那無獨有偶聯合報也刊登了一張世界經濟論壇所講的這個就業前景報告"},{"start":654.483,"end":674.473,"text":"其中AI大數據或者是寫作、數學、行銷媒體全部會被AI取代甚至軟體、程式設計這都是非常非常大比例的甚至馬斯克在一天前講了他說我不太明白現在為什麼還會有人要上大學"},{"start":675.473,"end":704.522,"text":"當然我們不一定要認同馬斯克但是我們想要跟次長講的是高教體制很可能會受到挑戰而且不是一半一半很不幸的有可能會變成利空請問教育部採取了哪些因應措施你也承認有利空你採取了哪些因應措施我想我們現在在AI的人才培育以後如果大原則有四個第一個具體措施我不要講原則原則大家都會講措施"},{"start":705.575,"end":717.451,"text":"ActionAction就是我們要教學生能夠去應用AI工具我們現在台卡大聯盟這個部分就是會來做好 第二個讓學生能夠運用這些工具去解決問題"},{"start":719.073,"end":737.171,"text":"这是原则第二个action是什么所以这个部分第二个action是什么我们从国中小的相关的一个课程的引导跟大学这一块我们在那个学分学成或是透过一些加值的课程来让学生能够去解决我实验有限第三个第三个要负责任的去"},{"start":737.831,"end":758.729,"text":"Action是什么这是原则嘛所以这一块将来也会在一些有关于AI的使用伦理的部分市长我打断你啦因为有时间有限其实你刚刚回去听你会发现你讲的很多是原则啦里面第一个Action抬卡我马上来讲但是呢刚刚你讲的什么指引啊我们昨天也提过了啦"},{"start":759.449,"end":786.747,"text":"次長也都說要回去檢討我們來看TICA再給我一點時間TICA我們擔心的是什麼因為有不同的人要做比較深度AI的教育或比較基礎的教育結果我們去問教育部說你們有沒有分說到底來上TICA的這個課程科系的比例文科的 理科的每一個大學的科系剛剛這個記者都講得很清楚有沒有統計次長你知道有沒有統計"},{"start":787.97,"end":811.87,"text":"我們都有資料我們可以分析什麼有資料我們要的時候就說沒有統計啊誰說謊 誰台卡來修課學生我直接念給您聽啦要後續研議收集針裂聯盟學校學系及學生修讀情形你們沒有啊所以我們可以來統計所以我問你過去有沒有統計你跟我說有有 我之後會統計"},{"start":813.419,"end":834.677,"text":"市長我們不要這樣但沒關係有開始做就好因為我們現在就是急啊就要有action啊我們目標一致但是要有動作好不好還有什麼還有百億啊我剩最後兩頁啦最後一頁啦百億2025年9月編了100億五個月過去了做了什麼"},{"start":835.956,"end":848.558,"text":"什麼Action你們說要什麼人才啦什麼研究型大學Action有沒有Action結果我們問了索取資料到剛剛啊我還沒拿到啊"},{"start":851.112,"end":867.187,"text":"這是什麼 這是詐騙集團嗎不是吧跟委員報告因為我們的作業要點是前一兩天有來做說明跟相關的學校已經在做說明收集他們的意見你已經通過了對 但是這一遇到現在五個月你現在才開始在說明"},{"start":868.248,"end":890.724,"text":"跟委员报告因为这一笔预算是从115跟116编列编列在115年跟116年是特别预算的部分那因为细致的一个作业需要学校实务作业面上能够比较能够符合现状所以我们有做说明您刚刚也说了今年就可以用的你1月才在说明讨论我们跟你们问要怎么执行你们资料也给不出来"},{"start":891.485,"end":906.747,"text":"沒有關係我們要動作快要有動作而且動作要快所以次長我想有一些委員動輒提出什麼115年度的預算案說什麼不省業務受到影響本席要說錢丟給教育部"},{"start":907.83,"end":922.15,"text":"完全沒有回聲五個月說現在要說明所以給了錢也沒有用如果有什麼專案可以提出來預算新興的項目也可以提出來也可以來說明目前我沒有看到任何說明沒有任何人來找我們說明"},{"start":923.231,"end":937.285,"text":"AI的發展對於高等教育利空還是利多大家可以持續討論但是我們擔心萬一利空您剛剛也承認會有利空我們就要準備而且要有action完全取決政府如何因應"},{"start":938.733,"end":965.312,"text":"我想次長沒關係如果您有回應可以會後給我報告但是我想要講的是如果我們的部長一心只熱衷政治無心推展教育業務如果底下的業務單位有出現螺絲鬆散的狀況我想也是預料之中但我想次長您今天勇於認識我們還是要給您肯定但是最終如果我們沒有辦法趕快做大學法的更多討論甚至修正"},{"start":966.192,"end":991.89,"text":"受苦的會是一屆又一屆的大學生我想今天藉由這樣的一個機會我們也是督促 鞭策我想有看直播看到我們這一段質詢都會知道我們就說要有action而且action要快教育部某種程度也提出回應但是能不能很多的項目不要透過這樣這樣我們立法院來當教育部就好顯然不是還是教育部就不要存在了讓各地的教育局來做也不是"},{"start":992.831,"end":1015.073,"text":"希望勸我們的教育部部長回頭試案趕快把專注力放在教育政策教育的法規上才不會被人民放進他們心中的黑名單好不好各位同學我們會又會提供但是確實預算我們明年新項目包括我們補助151號大學整修老師教室這確實是要立法院幫忙有沒有人來我們辦公室說明過"},{"start":1016.294,"end":1034.126,"text":"有沒有人來我們辦公室說明過新興預算來報告啊沒問題啊可以啊那要有人來喔那您現在有承諾喔那來說明喔我不要到最後我們等到最後沒有人來說明現在1月8號囉好不好好 謝謝謝謝葛如君委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}