{"error":false,"id":["167030"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167030,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167030","日期":"2026-01-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-12T10:01:50+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-12T10:12:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ab52049cf0a1ce0b90aba88e3f7353ae6ea9f55fbd6b87589ddda9214312ca712974bf4722aa1b25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"10:01:50 - 10:12:36","會議時間":"2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、內政部、教育部、行政院主計總處針對「立法院通過之警、消、公、教退休金改革法案之具體執行措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、繼續併案審查\n（ㄧ）委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員吳宗憲等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百零四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第九十三條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案。\n五、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等21人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零八條條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.86096875,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.704093750000002,"end":15.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.94784375,"end":20.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.05721875,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.684718750000002,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.30409375,"end":35.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.447218750000005,"end":37.712843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.48909375,"end":40.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.969718750000006,"end":44.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.15471875,"end":49.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.875343750000006,"end":51.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.242218750000006,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.26534375,"end":72.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.38659375,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.45721875000001,"end":81.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.43534375,"end":86.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.83596875,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.89409375000001,"end":93.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.18096875,"end":93.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.82221875,"end":100.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.08221875000001,"end":119.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.41909375,"end":108.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.86034375000001,"end":120.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.97409375000001,"end":121.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.21846875000001,"end":136.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.56659375,"end":137.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.32596875000002,"end":141.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.05534375000002,"end":147.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.39659375000002,"end":145.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.84346875,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.86846875,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.98659375,"end":149.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.60534375,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.61784375000002,"end":163.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.14471875,"end":163.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.61721875,"end":163.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.97159375,"end":164.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.22471875000002,"end":166.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.50284375,"end":169.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.11846875,"end":169.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.55284375000002,"end":171.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.73409375,"end":175.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.73784375000002,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.00784375,"end":176.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.75846875000002,"end":177.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.85971875,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.99471875,"end":178.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.04534375,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.85096875000002,"end":181.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.90971875000002,"end":181.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.96034375000002,"end":182.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.93909375,"end":183.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.85034375,"end":184.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.20471875,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.04409375,"end":186.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.28034375000001,"end":190.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.03471875000002,"end":193.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":192.05159375000002,"end":192.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":194.68409375000002,"end":212.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.17971875,"end":209.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":212.55471875,"end":220.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.26659375000003,"end":228.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":229.05846875,"end":231.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.89346875,"end":234.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.71159375000002,"end":259.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start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謝謝主席我們請法務部徐次長跟司法院的王副秘書長 謝謝委員長好次長今天跟你討論一下刑事訴訟法第101條關於這一個羈押室友這個有同仁提案要把這個勾串共犯或證人之餘把他拿掉那這一個部分"},{"start":38.953,"end":65.268,"text":"這個可不可以再請次長有沒有一些比較大的這一個通案你們把人不羈押以後放走以後會發生什麼樣的事情謝謝委員那我們現在目前看到的包括台積電工程的洩密案還有凱凱保母虐待兒童案還有我們最近的像跨國炸雞就台版的柬埔寨案還有軍官"},{"start":66.729,"end":90.201,"text":"塗抹駕駛軍機叛逃案還有毒梟議員販毒案這些很多的案子我們一定是有把主嫌犯積壓起來讓他沒有機會跟共犯或者是其他證人來做篡證這個一旦出去的話整個案子的偵查作為一定會受到影響那這個對檢察官來說這個放他出去你們會影響你們偵辦的作為嘛那這個"},{"start":95.253,"end":100.154,"text":"有沒有哪一些是你們也把人家放了結果後來真的出事了不是你們去跟法官申請喔是你們自己的檢察官問完之後就讓他走了然後走了之後就真的那個傢伙就跑了或者那個傢伙就去勾串了那勾串完之後相關的這一個共犯或者證人就跑了"},{"start":123.26,"end":135.728,"text":"我們目前在執行上對這個都很慎重那也都會得到法官的支持所以如果像類似這種要篡證我們有提出具體的事證的說明的話法官也都會支持我們"},{"start":137.421,"end":162.351,"text":"如果委員需要一些比較具體的個案我們是可以提出來不是問個案 我是說這個中間也許會有一些空窗啦有些是這樣 有些是當時沒有發現還有其他的共犯所以一旦讓他交保出去了以後則是沒有羈押他出去勾串的那個證人是我們沒有掌握到共犯沒有掌握到那勾串那個證人沒有掌握到他可能就跑了嘛會跑"},{"start":164.26,"end":189.614,"text":"跑了以後啊 你們就要站在這裡被罵了對對對 那我想到還有一個案子就是不過那裡都積壓起來因為大部分的都會配合我們對 就是如果你們把人放了然後就出事了然後呢 你們就要站在那裡被罵了經常這樣嘛然後又說為什麼放人嘛 對不對好 那我現在請這個司法院的這個副秘書長"},{"start":192.339,"end":211.776,"text":"你贊成這個修法嗎這個我們今天的報告裡頭有提就是說我們事實上是持保留意見的因為事實上世界上各國呢就是說有關於羈押要件一個是保全人嘛就是說被告不要跑掉還有一個是保全證據那那個證據我們都知道證據有物證"},{"start":212.717,"end":233.667,"text":"那也有那個人證譬如說你就把那個通聯這些東西手機的這些資料把它銷毀掉了嘛那還有一個就是人跟人之間的那個串證嘛那串證有各種方式一個是你可能有性的就是去串證那一個是敵性的譬如說像比較那個嚴重的這一種性侵或是暴力犯罪的話"},{"start":234.767,"end":258.976,"text":"那這個加害人他可能又會再一次用暴力的方式來就是恐嚇威脅這些那個被害人比較弱勢的那個被害人那所以呢就是說世界各國我們去看就是說幾乎就是說像我們講歐盟國家好了歐盟幾乎是全部就是通通都有這個保全就是說這個人真的這個部分的羈押原因啊"},{"start":259.935,"end":282.904,"text":"對 那我說 那有沒有現在委員會提案說這個叫兒少有關的預防性羈押就是說他特別列出了幾種就是說我們現在的規定裡頭特別列出這種特別列出來會不會越列越多預防性羈押部分是不是對就是不是勾串那個證人那個部分對 預防性羈押會不會越列越多"},{"start":284.382,"end":309.554,"text":"我想就是說這是隨著就是說這一種那個整個那個犯罪形態的那個眼鏡像有一些像身衛身衛這一種那個的犯罪這都是後來新出來的嘛那如果說有這一種新那個犯罪的話在預防性羈押有必要的時候這個當然就要練那我想他最重要還是在一個必要性的一個控管上面OK 好那兩位請"},{"start":312.096,"end":317.94,"text":"接下來我們請這個考試院 牛肉祕書長跟全序部的施部長委員長這兩天啊 新聞看到說你們現在在訂算嘛算說會減多少的公務人員的退休的數字會改變嘛 有這些的計算可是你也有說這個重新算的時候啊可能還要花幾個月的時間來訂算你的意思是說沒辦法讓人算就對了"},{"start":342.444,"end":364.296,"text":"用人齁 一個個案要很久的啦一個個案要很久的對 我們以前的經驗就是而且人 因為我們 報告委員喔我們整個部裡面就是一個師的一個科在負責啦喔不是我們整個部在做這個事情嘛那你們現在用系統來做我們就是 寫程式對 寫程式 重新在廠商寫程式然後要經過測試 因為這不可以不對嘛你這樣啦 這樣"},{"start":367.697,"end":392.3,"text":"現在立法會如果鄉長再把你蓋起來你以為還要寫程序我們就是只要退休的東西就是因為它是非常精細的那算得準嗎連一格就不可以差嘛因為拿到人審定的會比較減一格那我請問一下這個程式弄完之後這個公務員可以自己算嗎沒有還是我們要發出審定函啦沒有啦他可以自己算嗎"},{"start":394.346,"end":418.047,"text":"你那算的東西就公開給大家看啊不過目前那個因為是內部的資料系統完以後因為主要都離寬了算政府 我們目前沒有這個沒有啦 要個人自己輸入啊可能我們有一個系統是另外一個如果你是按照現在的那個制度的那個退休金喔沒有改以前的啦我們只要提供他們自己方便試算但是那都不是正式的啦正式還是依賴我們啦我一件事這樣啦"},{"start":420.549,"end":446.764,"text":"大家喔 公開透明啦 你們啊 點點啊 怎麼算的公務人員 都看得到他就輸入他自己的資料 他看不見別人的啦可是他看得到他自己的啦這個有辦法嗎我這個 我回去了解 如果我們系統都做好了啦因為你系統也是你設定的嘛對啦 都做好了啦 要不要說讓個人可以自己去查詢這個他的一個一個狀況 好 我了解啦好 來 這個秘書長"},{"start":447.847,"end":475.996,"text":"您這個 上禮拜考試院院會有同櫃說要去釋憲嘛 是啊 叫這個 什麼程式 這沒有衝突沒有衝突 我們就是 這個是兩件事情兩件事情 就它的核限性尋求這個憲法法庭的裁判那另外一方面 但是因為法律竟然已經生效上路了還是要依法去做這個執行那現在這個審定工作就是執行的第一個步驟你也要準備就對了 對準備之後 如果是釋憲說這違憲的"},{"start":478.141,"end":503.578,"text":"那這個就依照這個釋憲的結果來處理就停啊對 如果要 如果釋憲的有結果我們就依照不管他 看他是合憲還是違憲都會依照他的結果去做處理好 最後我是建議這個施部長我剛才說的那個事情就是說能夠當事人他自己輸入他自己的北京資料嘛都在那邊放唸他都用他自己唸嘛算算的 他總是每天看他的數字也開心啊"},{"start":507.725,"end":535.61,"text":"要不然你這樣審定出來 用早期的數字出來我跟你說 你退役金就是多少有時候要用到個位數去他也有重返簿 因為那些都電腦算的要告訴人家 我們政府就算是虧欠他這個事情 因為系統的程式也是你們設定的啦要輸入的參數跟變數也都是你們設定的啦這塊回去研究看看 有可行嗎"},{"start":536.789,"end":550.939,"text":"因為已退的人他本來以前就有一張審定函啦至於我們要重新變更這審定函啦重新變更我們都弄好了來 再了解一下印作的一個狀況有沒有可能性啦 好不好因為他自己也會生啦網路也會幫他生啦網路有很多好事之徒嘛他會幫他生 我在講喔你的剩剩財喔 還會給多少給多少到時候你 你的電腦剩財 減一萬塊每一個個案都來找你"},{"start":565.845,"end":569.747,"text":"說不對 我們這個省財這協會幫我們省財就這樣全市部幫我省財怎麼這樣這一個大家計算的基礎這都公開就是在程式上怎麼讓個人可以自己輸入個人的資訊之後裡面內部的看這種資訊怎麼做資安以後能夠把這個事情讓當事人可以自己先試算然後可能有一些誤差那誤差"},{"start":594.309,"end":600.412,"text":"這個大家都能夠接受 但是有時候要查太多有時候是你的系統設計出問題也不一定有時候是這個當事人 誤解因為網路上現在有時候說了說了斷到不要有時候誤解 都有可能現在也有退休公務人員因為說要退縮到很早很早以前這個網路有人也有人會這樣說雖然提案的這一個委員 去年提案的委員一再解釋 一再解釋說沒有要回到最早啦"},{"start":624.779,"end":644.886,"text":"但是公務員總是會算啊如果回到最早以兒傳兒不夠買都不會太少好不好所以這個計算的方式啊也去研究看看在資安的保全的這樣的狀況之下讓個人來能夠有這樣的了解我來跟同仁 紀總來研究看看好 謝謝多方要考量 好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}