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謝謝召委 我們有請石部長"},{"start":9.589,"end":33.514,"text":"那國發會的副主委其實也一起上來部長好部長這個我剛才特別掉順序就是為了質詢你因為我覺得這麼重大的議題部長你的發言是代表整個衛福部那今天要討論這個台灣未來賬戶我已經看到你面對媒體的時候你說這個普惠室的政策造成資源排擠"},{"start":35.214,"end":54.18,"text":"部長這個讓我對你的印象這個打了折扣這樣的發言其實非常的保守而且你沒有用一個發展性的觀點來看待一個未來的可能性這跟你過去給人家的印象完全不吻合是行政院交代你不可以多發言嗎"},{"start":55.94,"end":79.812,"text":"因為少子化辦公室你講大白話對不對辦公室根本就沒有真正成立啊沒有專人的編制啊你敢講實話大家肯定你啊那這件事情我是覺得以部長的高度或者是過去看你做事的風格你對於有發展性的創新的東西你應該不是第一時間就會去抗拒跟排斥的人嗎你不像"},{"start":80.869,"end":106.889,"text":"跟委員說明早上其實我完整的發言是講所有的政策都是一個選擇那我們都是會在既有的有限資源下去做最好的配置哪些是我們應該要優先那麼難免就會讓有一些這個政策呢就要做互相當中的這些順序的調整"},{"start":107.649,"end":123.143,"text":"所以我常講這個我有時候過去大家也知道我為了健保的財務會睡不著覺其實我們國家面臨當然我們的經濟發展很好但是高齡化跟少子女化很多都需要用錢沒有錯"},{"start":123.683,"end":144.049,"text":"当然所以我们在少子女化部分我们过去从这个少子女对策1.0到今年开始2.0其实我们不断的在强化除了经济弱势的儿童也对一般的儿童那么的挹注但是部长我要告诉你一件事情数据会说话"},{"start":145.289,"end":165.619,"text":"過去政府投資了超過五千億的確有在做 我不會說你們沒有做但是做的結果是去年的我們的新生兒的人口數只有十萬七千八百一十二人我覺得所有的部會所有的人員都要記住107812這個數字要非常的謹記"},{"start":169.821,"end":175.958,"text":"你如果看到從2016年到現在我們新生兒的人數他是腰斬"},{"start":178.24,"end":206.119,"text":"我不知道賴清德總統會不會晚上睡不著覺你將來你連國監幫你打仗的人都很有困難啊所以這個議題我覺得大家不要小看他就是一個標標準準已經是到國安等級危機的問題這不是空話就是大家在2016年的時候也不敢相信說人口怎麼可能掉得這麼快從20萬人可以掉到10萬7812人"},{"start":209.182,"end":221.761,"text":"這個速度太快了所以面對這麼重大的議題政府當然要有魄力 要有遠見要用個更宏觀的角度 發展的角度提出更好的方案嘛"},{"start":223.057,"end":241.402,"text":"如果你還是在那邊縫縫補補小知小覺什麼1.0 2.0 3.0然後慢慢增加我跟你說來不及了來不及了所以今天照道理來講我為什麼請國發會副主委上來這是你國發會的責任"},{"start":243.442,"end":261.048,"text":"就整個國家的發展你們早就應該要提出更有魄力更有遠見更宏觀性至少讓我們的人口可以止跌吧沒有沒有止跌的方案所以這個是為什麼國眾兩黨今天必須提出來這個台灣未來賬戶"},{"start":263.149,"end":283.674,"text":"這一步剛剛次長講了很多說不一定可以解決少子化的問題但是至少他讓我們未來的年輕人看到國家跟你一起養的決心國家可以陪著你讓你未來政府的責任是讓你的小孩未來他在18歲的時候可以有一筆資金"},{"start":285.234,"end":302.337,"text":"不管是他要就學也好他要自己再去深造也好我們對於國家未來的主人翁我們政府負了一定的責任讓他可以安穩這樣的一個方案川普已經先講了他今年7月他也要做了"},{"start":303.098,"end":319.25,"text":"我們台灣跟進為什麼美國可以台灣不行但是我必須講我今天聽了民進黨很多委員他的這樣的一個發言從前面的程序的發言然後我們官員的報告我感到非常的失望"},{"start":320.271,"end":343.722,"text":"因為多數都還是用一種很僵化保守的心態甚至把這個議題跟弱勢的議題連結在一起這是兩件事弱勢本來政府就在照顧而部長我不同意你的是你說這個會造成資源的排擠你沒有用一個更宏觀的發展性的觀念為什麼我們對於孩子的投資就只能這些"},{"start":344.986,"end":367.843,"text":"如果這個是未來重大的國安議題為什麼不是政府我們可以用更大的資源跟力量朝野大家一起合作想出一個更好的辦法這個才叫開放的態度但上午的尋討讓我聽起來那不叫開放的態度那個就是打從心裡先抵抗就覺得不好我們看看主計總書跟財政部出的報告"},{"start":369.875,"end":384.971,"text":"都是保守再保守啊如果我們同樣政府都是這樣的心態我們的掃紙話有解嗎我就要問了我們有提出更有效的解放嗎這個是我看到我覺得我們現在政府很迫切危機如果我們"},{"start":386.383,"end":410.814,"text":"思考這麼的僵化固著我們提不出更好的方案沒有解方大概會維持這個樣子所以這個是我覺得為什麼今天希望部長你可以上台接受質詢我覺得你應該要回到你原來比較開創性的思考那個部分重新再來思考這個問題你剛剛前面第一句話講得很好政策是一種選擇"},{"start":413.086,"end":441.028,"text":"就是我們的方向性我們現在就是少子化的問題我們就應該要很嚴肅認真面對而且你的力道要夠強不要都提那個很微小的很微小的方案出來這是一個大破大裂的方案他當然會動用到一些的資源但是我們要問的是對於未來對於給予父母更大的信心是不是對台灣社會注入一股強心針我個人覺得是"},{"start":442.069,"end":447.158,"text":"所以這件事情我希望部長你應該要有一個更開放的態度來面對可以嗎"},{"start":449.733,"end":476.087,"text":"謝謝委員這樣的一些這個前瞻性的說法不過我們回頭來看我們過去對少子女化所做的這一些的投入其實沒有一條我認為沒有一條應該少他都應該做所以我的意思是應該要再加嗎只是說不要用這種後勢的觀念所以面臨到現在我們仍然沒有辦法看到成效那到底是強度要再加深"},{"start":477.027,"end":499.948,"text":"还是要另辟蹊径这个是另辟蹊径就是我们现在变成是往以后18岁以后看但是我们现在当前的是强度不够对于这种育儿的家庭他的经济的支持跟机会的成本去强化你既有的政策又外加一一加一不行吗所以我希望是"},{"start":501.041,"end":528.142,"text":"再多一點時間像剛剛很多委員也提到以公聽會的方式然後讓我們再有一點時間那部長我可不可以要求你衛福部也要認真去做功課可以嗎會 這個是我們的責任你提出你可不可以有1加1的版本你既有的政策在強化之外在外加這個版本的到底整個我們需要多少的資源另外一個國發會的副主委今天在我們朝這個方向來來努力研究"},{"start":528.942,"end":542.128,"text":"國發會的副主委齁我今天看你們報告坦白講我蠻失望的齁過去行政院一直說國發會是扮演一個總體的我們的人口政策你們應該是那個腦但是你們今天的報告不及格"},{"start":543.15,"end":561.403,"text":"什麼都沒有提到我跟委員報告就像委員說 剛剛部長說的其實人口少子兒問題設施的面向非常廣泛所以事實上現在行政院的分工裡面是由陳政委在會籍各個相關部會提出相關的規則那基本上我們國發會第一個我們發布人口的這個"},{"start":567.307,"end":588.241,"text":"那個相關的統計你們要提政策啊對那我們基本上我們在負責的部分就是因為其實人口結構會影響到人才跟人力的這個部分所以呢其實我們人才跟人力這一塊怎麼樣去做一些我覺得這個國發會你們要再更主動一點好不好"},{"start":588.821,"end":610.77,"text":"你不要什麼都是衛福部衛福部他們執行面其實事情非常的多跟委員報告其實衛福部或是陳修政委在召開相關會議的時候我們國發會都會參與我們也會從國家資源分配的角度裡面提供相關的建議因為行政院他基本上有他的這個政委的分工那我們都有參與其中的計畫"},{"start":611.57,"end":627.746,"text":"我覺得你們不夠積極 坦白講過去我看到國發會不是這樣人口政策 少子化政策都是你們在提現在變成都落到這個衛福部頭上我覺得衛福部也沒有那麼厲害所以我認為國發會還是要扮演起一個更宏觀的角度 好不好"},{"start":628.606,"end":644.256,"text":"這個好的政策應該你們來提然後去徵詢這個衛福部的意見我希望這個副主委你也很有經驗你們應該要再更積極一點因為解決少子化不是單一部會的問題是每一個部會都有責任好不好我們大家一起來努力"},{"start":644.836,"end":658.491,"text":"請大家用一個更開放的心態更前瞻的心態我們一起來思考有沒有更好的辦法讓我們的年輕人更有信心而且真的去落實國家跟你一起養政府的責任絕對不能少謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}