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11:23:33","會議時間":"2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「反滲透法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。二、審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「反滲透法增訂第十一條之一條文草案」案。三、審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「反滲透法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。四、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「反滲透法第四條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員沈伯洋等18人擬具「反滲透法增訂第六條之二條文草案」案。六、審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「反滲透法部分條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「反滲透法部分條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「反滲透法第三條、第四條及第五條條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「反滲透法第五條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員林宜瑾等20人擬具「反滲透法第二條、第九條之一及第九條之二條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.000343750000001,"end":13.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.57284375,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.32721875,"end":22.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.60534375,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.173468750000005,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.83909375,"end":42.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.33221875,"end":62.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.704718750000005,"end":65.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.74221875,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.75846875,"end":74.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.95596875000001,"end":77.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.28034375,"end":81.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.00971875,"end":85.94159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.34659375000001,"end":94.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.29034375,"end":98.98596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.20534375000001,"end":105.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.14096875000001,"end":109.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.80659375,"end":113.73471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.12284375,"end":132.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.03971875000002,"end":144.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.88596875000002,"end":150.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.62346875,"end":158.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.06971875000002,"end":165.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.01346875000002,"end":173.48909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.72534375,"end":179.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.66534375,"end":185.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.16659375,"end":191.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.44409375,"end":199.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.88159375,"end":205.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.37846875000002,"end":221.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.26221875000002,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.57784375000003,"end":235.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.70721875,"end":241.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.71471875,"end":244.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.63846875000002,"end":245.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.11909375000002,"end":254.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.96159375000002,"end":262.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.67346875000004,"end":270.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.13659375000003,"end":280.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.01346875,"end":278.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.76784375,"end":280.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.76346875,"end":280.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.78034375000004,"end":281.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.25284375,"end":284.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.66596875,"end":284.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.76284375,"end":287.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.96909375,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.96409375,"end":302.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.36346875000004,"end":305.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.80596875000003,"end":314.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.22221875,"end":326.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.20784375,"end":346.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.14971875000003,"end":369.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.36971875,"end":374.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.09471875,"end":390.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.17659375000005,"end":396.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.67784375,"end":402.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.14096875,"end":420.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.77096875,"end":438.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.06784375,"end":446.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.54346875000005,"end":467.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.33721875000003,"end":471.11346875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.333,"end":13.237,"text":"謝謝召委有請陸委會副主委內政部常務次長還有數位發展部的副處長"},{"start":15.598,"end":42.351,"text":"在你們三位還沒有上台之前呢我要跟大家說明的一件事情也要告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你不要浪費我的時間其實你要講的就是我們其實呢 只有增訂一條同時要處理這麼多事情但是呢 事務發布你們自己的報告你們到現在你們還在互推剛剛你也講到 主管機關請問一下 人民是要怎麼樣依照這麼樣的一條法規來遵守呢"},{"start":179.796,"end":193.987,"text":"近期的小紅書被處置而社會大眾根本不知道原因是什麼這正是我們民眾現在最擔心的地方啊我們完全不知道標準在哪裡政府只要用一句基於國安輕輕的帶過而人民的焦慮仍然是沒有辦法解決的"},{"start":200.172,"end":220.084,"text":"現在我們又有委員提案增加所謂的灰色地帶的行為的制裁陸委會你在報告中也提到尊重建立灰色地帶行為的申報機制是能夠有效補強民主防衛機制的我要請問一下梁副主委什麼叫做灰色地帶行為人"},{"start":221.425,"end":238.001,"text":"具體的定義要件是什麼 哪一些行為算 哪一些行為不算 請你簡單的說明一下譬如說你在正式參選 或是正式向監察院申報之前那你這個在有意參選 或是還在醞釀參選 還是在幫人家抬轎的這些人"},{"start":241.912,"end":261.373,"text":"這就要到灰色地帶的行為好很好 梁副主委你說到了不只是所謂灰色地帶行為你們根本都講不清楚你們這次還要把觸角伸到您參選人您知道嗎連內政部他自己的報告都承認法案裡面根本沒有您參選人的明確定義"},{"start":263.074,"end":277.12,"text":"標準長什麼樣子完全說不出來請問這樣的概念是要怎麼執行報告委員您參選人其實在查會的時候就知道因為查會的時候他不會只限於說你是參選人他在查會之前參選人之前他就會查了你回去看一下內政部的報告好不好"},{"start":288.064,"end":290.547,"text":"我們現在看起來執政黨你們根本不是在補所謂的漏洞你們是要用更模糊的罪名要擴權然後讓檢調變成政府的打手你們隨時就可以出手抓人讓人民在法院之間疲於奔命"},{"start":305.928,"end":311.052,"text":"坦白講就是要管住人民的嘴綁住人民的手逼大家閉嘴然後把整個社會推向更恐懼而政府你們一再說由於所謂的境外敵對勢力散播謠言還有不實的資訊破壞了人民對政府的信任"},{"start":326.303,"end":328.745,"text":"我真的不這麼認為而且絕大部分的台灣人民也不這麼認為我們看一下多年以來我們的政府從疫苗的購買口罩的危機雞蛋的危機到最近對等關稅的議題還有我們的軍購的延宕甚至連我們非關的防寒衣的問題"},{"start":347.253,"end":369.086,"text":"人民對我們的政府早就已經出現信任危機了啦是政府你們的施政一再的錯誤讓人民再也難以相信我們的政府了而我們的政府不在人民的生活上面需要積極的回應人民的要求你們只是一昧的以所謂的國家安全做理由來限縮人民的基本權利我想民心只會離我們的執政者越來越遠的"},{"start":375.154,"end":377.235,"text":"人民要的就是非常的簡單我要吃得飽我要穿得暖但是呢執政黨你們做不到你們一再的用所謂的亡國感來轉移焦點你們只想讓人民閉嘴我們來看一下這個數據"},{"start":391.962,"end":399.847,"text":"2026年世界不平等報告指出了台灣最富有的10%的人口掌握了全台灣61%的財富金字塔頂端的1%的超級富豪就佔了我們台灣的27%而底層的50%的民眾我們僅僅只剩下4%的財富請問一下我們政府有真正在面對這些民生問題嗎"},{"start":421.842,"end":438.255,"text":"如果我們的政府把力氣都用在處理異己然後做政治清算每一次執政不力就搬出所謂的國安危機來作為掩飾最後只會讓人民更加的不安讓民主更脆弱"},{"start":439.156,"end":447.559,"text":"我要再說一次國安不是口號民主也不是擺在檯面上的裝飾品政府應該要做的是要守護的是全體人民的權利跟生活而不是執政的方便我覺得在場的大家我剛剛以上說的那些話請大家好好的思考而不是讓我們的政府執政不力轉移焦點謝謝"},{"start":470.332,"end":470.597,"text":"谢谢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}