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123"},{"start":1886.65,"end":1897.811,"text":"好 大家早安 請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好 我們現在開始開會請議事人員先讀上一次會議的議事錄"},{"start":1899.844,"end":1924.715,"text":"立法院第十一屆第三會期財政委員會第十三次全體委員會議事錄時間創划民國一百一十四年五月二十一日星期三九十四分至十三十九分地點群雄和九樓大禮堂出席委員賴世保委員等十四人列席委員謝龍介委員等十一人列席官員今晚會主委彭金榮財政部部長莊翠芸莊行副總裁顏忠大及其所屬單位相關人員"},{"start":1925.655,"end":1944.596,"text":"行政院主席總書代表 主席賴召集委員釋保報告事項一 宣讀商事會議事部決定議事部確定二 邀請財政部金融監督管理委員會中央銀行就房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1948.815,"end":1966.961,"text":"三 處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案39案一 金管會新增決議凍結第二幕金融監理鄉下金融監督管理預算30萬元書面報告案二 金管會決議凍結第一幕一般行政預算70萬元書面報告案"},{"start":1969.222,"end":1988.653,"text":"第三案及第四案均為凍結第一幕向下基本行政工作維持之業務費預算十分之一書面報告案五凍結第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理預算十分之一書面報告案六凍結第二幕向下金融監督管理預算二十分之一書面報告案七凍結第二幕向下金融監督管理"},{"start":1989.774,"end":2009.248,"text":"預算3% 書名報告案 第八案及第十案均為凍結第二幕向下 金融監督管理之業務費預算50萬元 書名報告案9 凍結金融監理向下 金融監督管理之業務費預算20分之1 書名報告案11 凍結第二幕向下 金融監督管理中設備及投資資訊軟體"},{"start":2011.389,"end":2026.052,"text":"軟硬體設備費預算四十萬元書面報告案十二金管會銀行局決議凍結第一幕一般行政預算五十萬元書面報告案十三凍結第一幕向下基本行政工作維持之業務費預算二十分之一書面報告案十四凍結第一幕預算"},{"start":2026.613,"end":2041.915,"text":"一百萬元書面報告案十五凍結第一幕預算十萬元書面報告案十六凍結第二幕銀行監理向下銀行監理預算五十萬元書面報告案十七凍結第二幕向下銀行監理預算百分之三書面報告案十八凍結第二幕向下銀行監理"},{"start":2044.596,"end":2072.569,"text":"業務費預算三十五萬元書面報告案十九 凍結第二幕鄉下銀行監理制業務費預算十分之一書面報告案二十 凍結第二幕鄉下銀行監理制業務費預算十萬元書面報告案二十一 金管會政局決議凍結第一幕一般行政預算七十萬元書面報告案二十二 凍結第一幕鄉下基本行政工作制業務費預算兩百萬元書面報告案二十三 凍結第一幕預算七十萬元書面報告案二十四 凍結第一幕鄉下基本行政工作維持中業務費"},{"start":2073.929,"end":2088.464,"text":"證券期貨大額外強修繕工程預算八十萬元書面報告案二十五凍結第一幕預算六十萬元書面報告案二十六凍結第二幕證券期貨市場監理預算十分之一書面報告案二十七凍結第二幕向下證券期貨市場"},{"start":2089.205,"end":2109.928,"text":"預算3% 書面報告案 二十八 凍結第二幕向下 正願期貨市場之業務費預算十分之一 書面報告案 第二十九案及三十案均為凍結第二幕向下 正願期貨市場監理之業務費預算五十萬元 書面報告案 三十一 凍結第二幕向下 正願期貨市場監理之業務費預算三十萬元 書面報告案"},{"start":2111.28,"end":2138.337,"text":"三十二金管會保險局決議凍結第一幕一般行政預算五十萬元書面報告案三十三凍結第一幕向下基本行政工作維持之業務費預算六十萬元書面報告案三十四凍結第二幕保險監理向下保險監理預算百分之三書面報告案三十五凍結第二幕向下保險監理之業務費預算五十萬元書面報告案三十六金管會檢查局決議凍結第一幕一般行政預算五十萬元書面報告案三十七凍結第一幕"},{"start":2139.918,"end":2156.596,"text":"預算五十萬元書面報告案三十八凍結第二幕金融金融金融機構檢查向下金融機構檢查之業務費預算一百萬元書面報告案三十九凍結第二幕向下金融機構檢查之業務費預算五十萬元書面報告案決定上列三十九案均勻"},{"start":2157.757,"end":2175.68,"text":"報告完成 準以動之提報院會討論事項 除以中華民國114年中央政府總預算決議有關金管會主管預算凍結專案報告案9案1.金管會新增決議凍結金管會資業務費預算30%專案報告案2.凍結第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理預算50萬元書面報告案3.金管會決議凍結第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理預算20分之1專案報告案"},{"start":2184.502,"end":2194.728,"text":"4.金管會銀行局新增決議凍結金管會銀行局資業務費預算30%專案報告案5.金管會證取局新增決議凍結金管會證券期貨局資業務費預算30%專案報告案6.金管會保險局新增決議凍結金管會保險局資業務費預算30%專案報告案7.凍結金管會保險局第二目保險監理預算100萬元專案報告案"},{"start":2210.317,"end":2232.612,"text":"8 金管會檢察局新政決議凍結金管會檢察局資業務費預算30%專案報告案9 凍結金管會檢察局第二模金融機構檢查預算300萬元專案報告案報告及討論事項合併詢答經金管會主委彭金龍財政部長莊翠媛中央銀行副總裁嚴忠大分別提出報告後 既有委員林德福等17人提出質詢"},{"start":2235.294,"end":2263.874,"text":"顏副總裁 財政部莊部長 金管副副組委 兆豐商業銀行董事長董麗冰 彰化銀行董事長胡鴻豪及相關人員予以答覆及說明決議一 報告說明及審查完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會一週內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定三 委員陽求 殷成 萬庭所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆四 中韓國一百四年度中央政府總預算決議"},{"start":2264.654,"end":2271.778,"text":"有關金融監督管理委會主管預算凍結專案報告案9案均與審查完略准予動之提報院會宣讀完畢好在場的委員為主法定的人數所以我們的議事錄暫不確定請議事人員先讀今日的議程"},{"start":2293.079,"end":2313.625,"text":"討論事項一審查國際金融業務條例八案一委員沈發慧等十八人委員鍾嘉斌等十七人分別擬據國際金融業務條例第十三條第二十二條之七及第二十二條之十六條文修正草案等二案二行政院行政委員李坤誠等二十人委員陳金輝等十六人委員郭國文等十九人"},{"start":2314.105,"end":2328.01,"text":"委員羅廷偉等17人委員陳玉珍等16人分別擬據國際金融業務條例第22條之16條文修正草案等6案2審查證券投資人及其或交易人保護法9案1行政院函請審議"},{"start":2329.27,"end":2353.832,"text":"委員鍾嘉斌等20人 委員李坤澄等19人 委員沈發慧等18人分別擬具證件投資人及其或交易人保護法部分條文修正草案等4案二委員林楚英等17人 委員王洪維等19人委員郭國恩等18人 委員賴世保等32人分別擬具證件投資人及其或交易人保護法第10條 第1條文修正草案等4案"},{"start":2355.111,"end":2374.299,"text":"三委員 林思敏等18人 女居 證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第10條之一及第20條條文修正草案案宣讀完畢好是來我們先請問那個對義事錄有沒有意義"},{"start":2375.558,"end":2403.832,"text":"好 無異議 那我們的議事錄確定首先我先介紹在場的委員我第一個介紹吳秉瑞委員沈花卉委員林楚瑩委員林德虎委員謝謝 那依序我們介紹今天參與的政府官員首先介紹軍管會主委彭主委"},{"start":2406.872,"end":2432.735,"text":"我們的法事處林處長 林志憲處長那我們的銀行局董局長證取局張局長保險局王立惠王局長檢察局我們的賴新國賴局長那依序介紹證件投資人及期貨交易中保護中心張董事長還有林俊宏總經理"},{"start":2435.902,"end":2461.96,"text":"那還有我們接著介紹財政部副稅署宋署長中央銀行外匯局紅戶局長行政院行政訴訟及懲戒廳陳法官施法院抱歉謝謝那法務部法治司謝戶司長本次會議安排審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":2464.211,"end":2469.753,"text":"國際金融業務條例第22條之16條文修正草案委員審判會等18人凝聚國際金融業務條例等第13條第22條之7第22條之16條文修正草案等8案"},{"start":2482.277,"end":2510.651,"text":"審查行政院行情審議證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案委員郭國文等18人凝聚證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第10條之一條文修正草案委員林思敏等18人凝聚證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第10條之一第20條條文修正草案等9案"},{"start":2511.591,"end":2529.307,"text":"將先請提案人員說明提案的要旨以後再請金管會彭主委說明並回應委員的提案內容那每一位提案的委員說明是三分鐘那我們先請省劃會委員提案說明"},{"start":2540.754,"end":2569.385,"text":"主席現在是先就這個國際金融業務條例一起兩個案一起對好這個今天這個有本席在這邊有提兩個修正草案一個國際金融業務條例第13條22條跟22條之16的條文修正另外一個是證券投資人及期貨交易保護法的部分條文修正草案那在這裡做簡單的提案說明"},{"start":2570.393,"end":2591.403,"text":"首先我提出有關國際金融業務條例的相關條文修正草案因為這個條例從民國72年開始歷經多次修正大部分都配合我國的金融國際化提升保險業的國際市場的競爭力而且要打造亞洲變成亞洲資產管理中心這個相關非常重要的一部法律"},{"start":2593.884,"end":2612.851,"text":"這個對此本期提出的修法主要有兩個重點第一個就是要這個現行的這個國際保險業務的分公司經營保險業務的這個租稅優惠包括盈利事業所得稅、營業稅、印花稅還要免於扣繳所得稅這個原定生效日起10年將於114年2月5日這個"},{"start":2618.614,"end":2631.906,"text":"為了吸引國際資金促進商品創新跟多元化本行提案建議將優惠期限延長至104年2月6日起算20年也就是到124年12月31日跟國際金融業務分行、國際證券業務分公司的租稅優惠期限一致"},{"start":2640.37,"end":2662.367,"text":"第二個為了維護實質的科稅公平明確規範國際金融業務分行國際證券業務分公司跟保險業務分公司他們經營的損失不得從所得額中來減除避免因為租稅優惠而產生稅基的流失接下來就這個"},{"start":2664.161,"end":2676.769,"text":"另外就證券投資及期貨交易人保護法的部分本期所提出的草案最主要有兩大重點第一個是強化投資人的訴訟權益第二個是擴充保護機構的經費來源因為證券期貨市場國際化雖然現行法已經有規定有代表訴訟跟檢驗訴訟的這些機制但是還不夠完備"},{"start":2689.907,"end":2710.002,"text":"本席特別把董監事涉及財報、公開說明書不實還有證券詐欺、非常微交易、侵佔背信等等這些重大的不法行為名列為保護機構可以提起代表訴訟跟檢驗訴訟的獨立事由這是第一點第二個重點就是說有關於經費來源的擴充"},{"start":2711.483,"end":2731.397,"text":"過去這些保護機構的經費主要來自當年度保護基金的這個支息但是隨著這個訴訟案件增加這樣的經費來源已經不太足夠了所以這次修法除了當年的支息以外也把歷年支息扣除掉業務支出之後的餘額一路納入經費來源讓這個保護機構有更充裕的裁員來推動相關的業務"},{"start":2735.839,"end":2747.402,"text":"總結來講這部分的修法不但強化投資人的保護也讓保護機構有更穩定的裁員有助於我證券市場的健全發展以上這兩個法在這裡懇請各位委員支持順利推動修法"},{"start":2761.296,"end":2783.729,"text":"謝謝主席我們各位立法院財政委員會的同仁還有今天各位與會的官員今天本席要針對我所提出的證券投資人及期貨交易保護法第十條之一的修正案來進行說明我們都知道證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法主要的立法目的就是在保障"},{"start":2784.629,"end":2806.216,"text":"證券投資人及期貨交易的相關人的權益喔而投保中心是依據這個法規而設立的保護機構其中第十條之一規定投保中心在發現上市櫃公司的董監是有重大損害公司或違法行為的時候得提起代表訴訟或解任訴訟以處"},{"start":2808.277,"end":2831.958,"text":"管理階層善盡職責適時的解任不適任的董監事但是在現行的法規將不法範圍過度的限縮導致本席長期關注有關於公司治理其中包括財報公開說明書不實的情況或者是董監事做出精湛"},{"start":2833.41,"end":2843.456,"text":"背信非常規交易都沒有辦法由投保中心來代位阻止不適任的董監事繼續任職因此本席這一次在條文中特別增訂了違法的樣態讓投保中心可以對公司追究責任讓公司治理可以更為健全也讓投資人的保護能夠更全面"},{"start":2857.385,"end":2879.87,"text":"另外一方面目前的法規投保中心在發現不法可是發現不法的這個發現這兩個字其實在定義上是非常模糊的所以在執行上面就容易造成判斷上面的困難所以本席特別也在這個提案當中改以比較明確的檢察官起訴為標準"},{"start":2883.931,"end":2898.256,"text":"以利于投保中心在判断这个时间的起始点上面可以有一个依据我们都知道随着国际金融环境快速的变化金融商品跟投资行为也越来越多样与复杂"},{"start":2899.196,"end":2924.046,"text":"相關法規更應該與時俱進才能夠提供投資人一個公平安全的交易環境那麼這一次的修法就是希望能夠強化保護機構給予投資人的保障範圍更加的明確以利維持金融市場的健全發展也希望我們財政委員會的各位委員及官員能夠支持本席的提案謝謝好 謝謝楚茵委員那"},{"start":2929.997,"end":2951.606,"text":"接著請鍾嘉斌委員說明提案要旨鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在請李昆城委員 李昆城 李昆城 李昆城委員不在請郭國文委員 郭國文 郭國文 郭國文委員不在請陳一貞委員 陳一貞 陳一貞 陳一貞委員不在請賴世寶委員 賴世寶 賴世寶 賴世寶委員不在請林思銘委員"},{"start":2957.608,"end":2980.876,"text":"林思敏委員 林思敏委員不在請陳靜薇委員 陳靜薇委員 陳靜薇委員不在請羅廷偉 羅廷偉 羅廷偉 羅廷偉委員不在請王紅薇 王紅薇 王紅薇委員說明提案要旨 王紅薇委員不在我們請金管會彭主委說明並且回應委員的提案內容"},{"start":2986.946,"end":3005.987,"text":"主席各位委員各位媒體先進大家早安貴委員會今天審議行政院函報國際金融業務條例第22條之16修正草案證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案陳貴委員會邀請提出報告表達由衷謝意"},{"start":3007.589,"end":3023.024,"text":"以下僅就上開草案以及大院諸位委員所提修正條文草案分別提出本會意見 敬請各位委員指教一 有關國際金融業務條例第22條之16修正草案第22條之16規定租稅優惠年限於114年2月5日屆滿"},{"start":3027.849,"end":3048.861,"text":"為配合我國推動亞洲資產管理中心,持續提供租稅優惠為推展之重要誘因,實有再延長之必要。經與財政部溝通,修正自104年2月6日起至124年12月31日止,稅事支出評估報告,經財政部扶貧尚無不同意見。"},{"start":3050.502,"end":3069.163,"text":"有關大院委員審發會等18項擬具修正條文草案部分第13條第22條之7第一項第22條之16第一項有關經營業務之損失不得自所得而檢除部分因素可行本會竟表贊同為人需尊重財政部意見"},{"start":3069.944,"end":3088.815,"text":"令租稅優惠期間原建議依行政院提案修正至中華民國一百零四年二月六號起至一百二四年十二月三十一日子有關委員鍾嘉斌等十七人擬具修正條文草案部分同上委員審發會等十八人擬具之修正條文草案意見"},{"start":3089.576,"end":3100.856,"text":"本會認為因屬可行競表贊同為人需尊重財政部之意見並有關第22條之7第5項有關OSU免稅期間修正部分"},{"start":3102.403,"end":3118.364,"text":"省州OIU免稅期間延長至124年12月31日址約再延長10年基於OSU OIU免稅期間延長期限以採相同標準原建議OSU免稅期間比照OIU延長10年至127年12月30日址"},{"start":3121.087,"end":3137.139,"text":"那為人需尊重財政部的意見有關委員李坤成等二十人所提修正條文草案與行政院版本所提內容相同本會競表贊同另有關證券投資人及期貨交易保護法部分條文修正草案部分"},{"start":3137.839,"end":3147.505,"text":"本次為完備代表訴訟、解認訴訟之法規制度及考量保護機構相關訴訟由智慧財產與商業法院審理訴訟業務加重,時有擴充保護機構經費來源以因應未來業務發展所需修正重點,擴大保護機構提起代表訴訟、解認訴訟之獨立適由範圍"},{"start":3160.894,"end":3180.074,"text":"增列證券詐欺、財報或公開說明書不實、非常規交易、侵佔、背信並明定已起訴且未定訴訟案件適用修正實施後規定放寬保護機構執行業務之支出及費用之限制除現行當年度保護"},{"start":3181.455,"end":3193.809,"text":"基金支息外亦將歷年保護基金支息支應業務支出剩餘撥回基金累積數之合計一併作為保護機構的經費來源有關委員林楚英等17人擬據修正條文"},{"start":3196.332,"end":3224.842,"text":"部分第一項序文建議甄列經檢察官起訴後文字查經檢察官起訴目前為保護機構啟動裁判解認之判斷情形之一但司法實務上亦有案例不涉及刑事程序而經裁判解認案例故未落實保護公共利益不宜甄列經檢察官起訴等文字原建議採行政院提案條文委員王宏偉等19人擬拒修正草案部分"},{"start":3225.882,"end":3249.205,"text":"民定已卸任之董事或監察人亦為解任訴訟對象及三年失格效因司法院提出請求權依據、處分性質、管轄權等法律定性及司法實務見解上有疑慮因無法達成共識本會原未納入本次投保法修正原建議採行政院提案條文委員、宗嘉斌等二十人擬據修正條文議案"},{"start":3250.106,"end":3275.629,"text":"委員所提第20條修正內容支出剩餘撥回基金僅以前三年為限如預前三年合計剩餘較低或當年度有較大需求可能有剩餘無法支應業務之情形考量近年保護機構業務不斷擴增又目前規定年度預算編列需經董事會決議申報本會合定已具有控管機制原建議採行政院提案條文所提"},{"start":3276.329,"end":3297.157,"text":"所提三十二條有關判決結果通知投資之方式考量基於尊重投資人之的權益及續行授權之意願仍維持原條文鎖定以書面通知為宜以保障其權益原建議維持現行條文另有關委員審發會等及其他委員所提的修正草案與行政院條文相較"},{"start":3297.937,"end":3325.251,"text":"修正條文文字皆相同差異僅法制作業規範格式原建議採行政令條文以上報告敬請各位委員會議指教與支持並祝各位委員身體健康萬事如意謝謝好謝謝彭主委現在開始詢答先做以下的先告每位出席的委員花言時間是8分鐘必要的時候得延長2分鐘每位列席的委員花言時間是4分鐘今天早上10點"},{"start":3327.079,"end":3342.827,"text":"我們截止花園的一個登記那本次那個會議委員若是有相關的修正動議請敬送主席台已被議事人員整理現在已登記的順序請登記第一位林德胡委員質詢"},{"start":3367.875,"end":3379.111,"text":"謝謝主委 謝謝主席還有我們彭主委與會各列席冠軍是不是請彭主委 金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":3382.162,"end":3386.525,"text":"金管會公布四月高資產理財統計,媒體報導,由於川普對等關稅造成全球股災,"},{"start":3399.552,"end":3423.645,"text":"衝擊投資人的信心因此在高資產大戶的資產值存款比重來到46.2%比起商業多多出了0.7個百分點是去年11月以來的最高紀錄那我請問主委高資產大戶"},{"start":3427.27,"end":3453.681,"text":"存款比重增加是不是因為大多數金融商品投資不確定性的風險提高已成定數所以說這些大戶寧可把錢放在銀行不去投資您的看法呢是 柯文報告我想就是我們剛才委員有提到這個從川普提出這個對等關稅政策全球的資本市場都出現一個波動不過"},{"start":3454.761,"end":3482.839,"text":"我們剛才講若以現在的狀況全球主要的股市大概都已經回到原來的水準甚至已經已經比原來還更高那至於說高資產客戶的理財行為這確實需要再做深入的分析不過剛委員指證的就是說他的那個所謂的現金部位或是資金部位是不是有顯著因為這樣提高我們看到數據就我們知道並沒有說太大的這樣一個差異當然是剛委員提到說有比較高本來他們的"},{"start":3483.78,"end":3505.843,"text":"他們的理財行為就跟一般的我們是不太一樣所以這部分大概很難就說因為這個維福的征服就說是因為這件事情有一個連動的關係主委我請教又或者還是有哪些屬於低風險的這些金融產品能可以作為投資的參考標的依您看"},{"start":3506.664,"end":3529.274,"text":"其實很多人也想知道這個答案我想說我們有一句話就是投資都有風險我們要審慎的評估跟投資因為從很簡單的學理裡面風險跟報酬是相對應的風險低當然是報酬低那當然大部分都希望追求高的報酬就要忍受比較多的波動"},{"start":3530.094,"end":3550.07,"text":"我想但是尤其最近這段時間全球的很多過去我們可能認為相對比較穩定的投資工具呢也面對到一些波動這也是讓我們所有的投資人要注意風險主委這個財政部半個月前公布四月證券交易稅這個真的178億元這個"},{"start":3555.734,"end":3556.355,"text":"年減幅高達31%3月4月連續兩個月互成長"},{"start":3564.674,"end":3581.661,"text":"這個台股交易動人顯著的降溫顯示投資人的信心明顯有受挫但是本席觀察台股4月9日是17306點的低點到解除限空令到這個5月26日的大盤指數21536這個"},{"start":3595.669,"end":3609.174,"text":"21536點卻也反彈了4000多點那我請問主委你認為這一個推來的大盤反彈是台股完全回歸基本面還是台股超跌的技術面的一個反應依您看勒"},{"start":3611.896,"end":3636.112,"text":"剛剛確實我們也觀察到今年上半年我們台股的成交量因為去年大概是台股成交量最暢旺的一段時間我們也看到大概平均的日均量大概減少了大概15%左右我想這個數值大概都很清楚因為當然主要是我們從今年上半年包括大家所知道的這些國際經濟情勢的變動那當然是有影響"},{"start":3639.974,"end":3656.419,"text":"剛剛提到就是說我們假設以這個對等關稅來看的話這個事件確實陳主委講說我們從這個兩萬一千多點然後到一萬七千三來到了一萬七千多點的低點然後現在又回到了原點甚至高一點"},{"start":3657.779,"end":3683.744,"text":"我想說其實我們在很多場合都提到台灣在過去在我們的經濟的表現包括我們截至四月我們所有的上市櫃公司它其實營收這些表現大概都有差不多15%以上的比去年同期還高當然有人說這是因為提前拉貨的原因但是台灣在經濟上相對我們亞洲其他國家基本面這是無庸置疑的我想這個"},{"start":3684.804,"end":3706.292,"text":"股市呢如果回歸市場機制自然就會反映到我們真實的狀況因為不管怎麼樣消息面最後還是回到基本面這樣齁 那個主委因為一個多月內的台股大盤指數以及啊台股成交量的統計金管會上個禮拜五宣布說解除限控令那我請問主委你認為"},{"start":3708.113,"end":3722.287,"text":"台股面對關稅戰的壓力測試是不是已經過關所以說軍管會才會決定解除限工令其實我想未來的事情大家都很難預料我們要戒慎恐懼"},{"start":3723.368,"end":3751.354,"text":"那我們所謂的過去是因應在4月7號那個措施主要是我想當時大家回想4月7號因為我們放廉價的關係市場充滿了不理性的預期心理所以這時候呢我們進行市場上面的一個所謂的市場上做一些措施穩定這個所謂的非理性的行為的可能確實也發揮了效用我們有一句話說手伸久了會痠我們必須適度的收回來才有下一次"},{"start":3752.034,"end":3766.773,"text":"出手的這個力道我想未來充滿的不確定性這個我們金管會這個措施是隨時保持高度的激動隨時應應各種的狀況我覺得我們可以透過更彈性的方式但是我們先"},{"start":3767.854,"end":3783.77,"text":"市場回歸市場機制還是最重要的因為有股民擔憂儘管會雨天收傘恐量變盤那你認為有沒有可能這個股市空荒大軍捲土重來來催化"},{"start":3784.491,"end":3806.793,"text":"整個端午變盤會不會我想如果從長期的觀點如果說從當天來看當然大家就會有這樣的一個想法我想其實台灣的市場我跟你講就是最近幾年尤其最近十年我們台灣的資本市場已經逐步的成長茁壯已經快要排名是在全世界接近前十名的資本市場"},{"start":3807.754,"end":3821.419,"text":"我想台灣具有一定的韌性而且國際上面也有高度的肯定我們這次的一些的在資本市場的一些作為這是個長期性的而不是只看一個端午節或是看一個所謂的那個簡單的漲跌來看待這個制度"},{"start":3826.616,"end":3841.077,"text":"好 那個主委我再請教因為這個關心大盤之餘本席也注意到有三家上市櫃公司因被如期公告2024年第一季的財報遭主管機關"},{"start":3842.319,"end":3859.676,"text":"列入觀察名單目前都已經是停止交易的這種狀態那我請問主委這幾家公司在為如期繳交財報前是不是已經出現有別於正常上市櫃公司的交易異狀"},{"start":3861.478,"end":3884.519,"text":"其實我們現在的上市櫃公司家數已經接近兩千家市場有進有退這個大概都是一個非常正常的現象我們的上市櫃交易所跟櫃買中心針對這些異常的現象都有嚴密的監控剛才委員所提到那幾家公司有些每家情況不一樣有些是因為經營權的增值有些是因為財務的問題"},{"start":3885.66,"end":3907.478,"text":"我想這些我們在現有的機制上都按照我們的機制在運作跟管控中那如果有是不是金管會證交所會在停止交易處分前採取哪些處置或措施如果沒有的話那麼投資民眾這又該怎麼樣來避免踩雷啊你覺得呢"},{"start":3908.038,"end":3927.946,"text":"當然就是我們所有的投資大概都會有風險但是以台灣的資本市場規模跟現在我們那個發生這些加速還有這些的內容來看我覺得台灣的資本市場相對是穩健不過我們還是要提醒所有的投資人其實我們所有上市櫃公司定期都有做財務的揭露還有一些訊息如果重大影響到"},{"start":3929.186,"end":3947.74,"text":"這個所謂的這個股東權益跟影響到公司的話都要做重大資訊的揭露我們也提醒說所有投資人要注意資訊的這樣的觀察還有就是風險這樣齁那個主委因為三家之中的一家是老牌食品大廠啊胡冒有指"},{"start":3948.28,"end":3957.328,"text":"那近年營運狀況大致上是穩定過去8年也都發放過超過1元的現金鼓勵但是從108年以來開始經營權主委就是經營權的爭奪戰創辦家家族與市場派這個代表之間的鬥爭"},{"start":3971.019,"end":3996.908,"text":"成為最後公司沒有辦法如期繳交財報的關鍵因素那主委近幾年上市櫃公司經營權之爭頻傳那幾年前的大同公司的經營權之爭更如連續聚班的熱度那我請問主委上市櫃公司出現經營權之爭有沒有分良性與惡性之別 有沒有"},{"start":3997.745,"end":4013.268,"text":"我想經營權之爭是我們市場上面的稱呼啦其實上就是一個比如說我們在對於董監的選舉那我想我們都有一套的這個相關的遊戲規則那其實我們就按照這個法律來走"},{"start":4014.65,"end":4036.502,"text":"對 違規的我們就會來處理然後大家都是守法的話我們就按照這套制度來進行那金管會跟證交所對上市櫃經營權之爭出現白熱化目前可以所採取的處置和措施有哪些金管會或證交所採取的處置措施是不是有更明確的訊號"},{"start":4038.543,"end":4061.272,"text":"讓公司的小兒的投資人或股東能夠清楚的判斷以避免手中股票變成壁紙你的看法呢這一點我想我剛剛跟委員報告過了所有的這些都要依照現行的法規來進行如果違法我們一定是嚴格處置那如果說是合規的行為我們就尊重市場"},{"start":4062.376,"end":4085.831,"text":"對啦 那你要是沒好好的處置這些小股東們到時候會不會傻傻的坐以待斃啊 會不會就變成這個樣子當然就是我們剛才就像我們今天審議的這些條文裡面我們有針對這違規行為投資人保護的部分我們就會啟動這套機制像比如說這些有問題的我們投保中心都會參與會議這就是其中一個機制啊"},{"start":4086.411,"end":4103.673,"text":"最後一題,這幾天新台幣升值又升破30元,重返29.59元因為金融行業中的受險公司多將龐大的保惠收入投資在美元計價的海外債券與股票"},{"start":4106.107,"end":4131.905,"text":"來賺取較高的收益所以說新台幣升值時這些海外投資帳面價值縮水未充分避險將產生可觀的匯兌損失那請問主委推行外匯準備金的心智你認為對保險業經營上有哪些優點和缺點我想所謂外價準備金跟我們的傳統用工具避險"},{"start":4132.905,"end":4150.58,"text":"這是兩種不同一種是利用所謂的風險管理上面風險移轉一個就是我們所謂自我保險這兩個都是風險管理的方法我想這個都是可行我們是建議公司基於他的專業來做這樣一個省政的運用換句話說受險業避險後有賄損可使用外匯準備金金額抵押沖抵"},{"start":4159.528,"end":4177.449,"text":"但如果有匯兌利益也必須有百分之百的提存是不是對保險業整個獲利與未來展望也會有一些負面的影響其實剛委員也有提到這次是帳面價值的縮水"},{"start":4177.99,"end":4202.59,"text":"剛才講說所謂的提存外價金就是它的未實現的收益他把它提存起來主要是要面對以後的未實現損失其實這樣都是未實現的跟我們很多人理解的損失叫做虧錢其實都是帳面上的所以這也是為什麼受險運的特性所以我們透過這套機制呢讓保險公司有兩種工具可以來選擇這樣喔是的好 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝德虎接著請吳秉瑞委員質詢"},{"start":4217.83,"end":4236.181,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委委員早主委早投資人保護中心現在的編制是什麼樣子還有多少人這個詳細的數字我可以請董事長跟委員簡單說明"},{"start":4242.068,"end":4244.951,"text":"我們的編制是58人,但實際是50人你們現在聘了幾位住在你們裡面的律師?18位50位有18位是律師這18位律師的薪資是什麼狀況?"},{"start":4261.553,"end":4289.894,"text":"我們按照他的年資不同 平均我們之前統計過大概是8萬多平均是8萬多好 那主委我要請教你這個投資人保護中心如果遇到比較大的訴訟是自己的這18位律師去打官司呢還是要外聘律師剛剛董事長提到 既然有自己的律師就由自己來處理"},{"start":4291.584,"end":4317.969,"text":"那律師這個行業因為我是有一些了解八萬多平均的薪資是低的那如果是一般的律師他是專門職業技術的license基本上他也是有一點商業行為的色彩我是說一般在外面的律師那如果他在外面職業狀況良好的"},{"start":4320.523,"end":4345.741,"text":"他的收入遠不只平均八萬多也就是說用平均八萬多養十八個律師在投資人保護中心裡面專門等待訴訟這樣的想法跟幾位比較能夠了解說這個案件判斷該不該提起訴訟然後如果要提訴訟 外聘律師"},{"start":4347.37,"end":4371.332,"text":"比較優秀訴訟方面表現成效良好的律師來打官司你覺得這個效果會不會不一樣花費也可能會有點不一樣搞不好也會比較省來 請說謝謝委員的詮詢就是基本上我們上次有考慮過說是不是要有外聘或雙軌的一個方式就是我們有自己的律師跟外聘的律師當然投保中心有一些"},{"start":4372.833,"end":4399.428,"text":"訴訟上策略上的考量必須跟有一致性就在不同的個案當中那再加上外部的市場其實他們也可以考慮跟投保中心有力衝的一些案子我們現在目前大概有一百多個案子在運作所以其實外部市場是不是有這樣子的一個可能性也還要再研議那你們過去三年的訴訟成果我看到的統計資料都是勝訴的部分是那有多少敗訴的"},{"start":4401.438,"end":4410.648,"text":"委員要看不同的類型是看財報還是看因為我現在看到的資料你們過去三年求償的金額新台幣799億然後判決得到賠償的金額是324億然後和解的金額是63億這樣勝訴的比例"},{"start":4420.658,"end":4443.039,"text":"如果你起訴的求償金額扣掉和解金額大概是730那你才獲勝數324代表你獲勝的金額不到一半我是說如果從我粗略的統計數字這樣來看所以你的勝訴的案件當然有敗訴的案件也不少"},{"start":4444.212,"end":4467.411,"text":"那敗訴之後有沒有去檢討什麼原因敗訴或是當初根本就不應該起訴這一方面是由誰來控管由誰來判斷好 跟委員報告委員剛才這些數字是歷年從投保中心設立到現在的數字所以大概有一半左右的就一半左右的敗訴的可能性那我們現在的"},{"start":4468.092,"end":4494.324,"text":"基本上所有的案子收案都是百分之九十可能八都是從檢察官起訴的案件移轉給我們的所以我們會從檢察官起訴案件中評估評估如果有訴訟的這個十億的話我們就會送董事會如果董事會通過我們才會提起訴訟對那結果在經過檢察官起訴你們在審查認為說這個應該要去告結果告了之後法院對你支持的比例不到一半"},{"start":4496.718,"end":4516.631,"text":"那這個中間坦白講是有什麼問題啊今天檢察官起訴的案件就是檢察官認為有犯罪嫌疑嘛好那他基本上檢察官就過濾了一遍你在這個檢察官起訴的案件裡面你們董事會再去選擇哪一些該告這你們再經過一次的篩選"},{"start":4518.206,"end":4544.293,"text":"就這樣的篩選告了之後還是你們會裡面18位律師專門的律師你們在投保中心裡面專門的律師去進行訴訟結果勝訴的比例不到一半這個喔民事訴訟喔坦白講如果丙除掉大訴啦民事訴訟的勝率應該是一半一半"},{"start":4545.834,"end":4566.282,"text":"委員我可以跟您報告一下嗎就是我們在其實現在很多訴訟特別是財報不實都金額非常大但是在損害培養的計算上目前法院沒有穩定的見解所以我們一開始在計算的時候會採取對投資人比較保護的一個損害培養計算法叫毛損益法早期的案件都是這樣現在法院的見解比較穩定以後會採一個比較稍微"},{"start":4567.562,"end":4589.481,"text":"貼近實際的一個狀況的競選法所以早期的案件金額都會非常的大我是很敬佩你們要保護這個投資人的這樣子的想法跟做法但是我遇到的個案的陳情也有很多在訴訟就以我以前曾經擔任過的職務來看有些訴訟是不合理的就在我來看這個爛訴啊"},{"start":4592.541,"end":4617.386,"text":"所以我現在是在講說你們這個機制如何設置你要去保護投資你的名稱叫做投保中心這我很贊成這個工作我也很贊成那問題是你怎麼去踐行這一個機制那你一方面要保護你名義上的投資派人另外一個角度反面來講也有可能會進入不該告的人去告的話被告的人也非常痛苦的何況你們是"},{"start":4618.266,"end":4631.991,"text":"你們有的是資本你們可以對人家假扣押假處分假扣押假處分假執行你們有的是資本那你是用訴訟用強勢的訴訟方法那被你告的人有一些是很該告的"},{"start":4633.049,"end":4661.442,"text":"阿如果不該被告的然後你又去查封他的你又用這個保全處分去查封他的他連生活都出問題阿我就曾經遇到過這樣的懲罰案件阿所以我今天就想說主委投保中心這個政策我認為很好但是他的設置跟他要達到的目標跟他現在進行之後你去給他檢驗中間是不是有可以再改進的地方是"},{"start":4662.512,"end":4690.76,"text":"當然所有的制度在運行一陣子他們都會持續的做剛剛委員剛剛提到包括如何選案如何決定訴訟是不是有更精細的篩檢標準還有就是是不是能夠找更專業的人來協助是不是能夠提升勝率而且不要就是等於說過多的就剛委員提到假設是不應該提起訴訟的部分是不是應該有個比較嚴謹的檢核訴訟第一個降低成本也能夠更精準的去保護投資人我想"},{"start":4693.261,"end":4715.612,"text":"這個從董事長領導的投保中心過去一直也跟我們保持密切的合作相關需要改善的地方我們會請我們的相關業務局跟他們去做進一步的研商我覺得我要提供一個我認為比較關鍵的問題就是你要決定起不起訴這大概要有比較"},{"start":4717.687,"end":4742.779,"text":"專業可以判斷訴訟走向的人來做我不知道你們董經事的聘請是怎麼樣不是說大家覺得這裡有損害該告就告我是覺得你認不認同我認為你要選擇訴訟該告的案件當然要告但是有一些告的選擇也不是爛訴檢察官送來的我全部都告"},{"start":4743.977,"end":4771.462,"text":"這也不見得是正確啦所以誰再決定告不告我認為是關鍵的問題好 跟委員補充報告一下基本上我們如果是故意的行為我們一定大部分都會列成被告如果是法律上其他的過失跟推定過失的我們目前在獨立董事的部分已經有一個審議內部的審議機制去衡量這個獨立董事的行為看有沒有符合法律上的禁職的概念如果有的話我們就不會提起訴訟而且我們實務上還有三種情況是當然不會提起訴訟的情況對獨立董事"},{"start":4773.402,"end":4797.91,"text":"你講到獨立董事我就是要提醒你你如果是這樣子沒有好好的審慎的評估就去訴訟將來企業上市歸公司獨立董事沒有人敢幹獨立董事在很多上市歸公司其實他領的待遇非常的微薄結果動不動告他然後再對他進行保全程序公司做了一些壞事"},{"start":4799.823,"end":4825.251,"text":"連他的董事會面已經表達說我反對然後還用純正心來告訴董事會說你這樣違法那一種的你們都在告這一種的我是說以過去我收到陳情的案例為例那如果這樣下去的話這件事情是因為現在大家相當專業大家沒有聚焦在這上面弄下去之後以後你要找獨立董事都有困難了"},{"start":4826.71,"end":4843.416,"text":"是 各位原報官我們現在有三種情況如果他已經表示異議或者他有去檢舉吹哨或是他有請獨立外部專家來協助的話我們會當然不提告那這個現在是新改的這個政策嗎是 之前就有之前是有 但是我遇到的情景不是這樣啊"},{"start":4845.157,"end":4858.772,"text":"當然他有一些細緻的部分就是說他的反對是不是針對財報不實的情況有沒有講到確實有虛位的一個情況的有一些差距在確實在構成要件上還有一些更細緻的部分"},{"start":4859.845,"end":4871.789,"text":"所以我們在這裡當然不方便檢討個案啦我是說他瞻之時可以公錯過去的案例你也可以來參考好 謝謝委員以前做的事情如果後來到事後證明說這個是相當離譜"},{"start":4875.35,"end":4899.804,"text":"你那個判斷部分的檢討以及檢討之後到底這裡有沒有責任我如果是你們住裡面的律師我會怎麼想 反正我的薪水就是這樣我告人也是這樣 告書也是這樣告人就變成不用去承擔那個後果被訴訟除了國家有司法成本之外"},{"start":4901.653,"end":4930.792,"text":"被你告的人他也要付出司法成本這些成本可能不是你在文字上看到有人說你被告就被告吧你不知道被告的痛苦再來如果你做保全程序的話他的財產全部都被你封走了他要如何生活所以這個事情要訴訟在我來看是一個嚴肅的事情當然該告的人必須要告因為這些人如果是利用這個制度為惡的人我也很贊成告他"},{"start":4931.773,"end":4956.903,"text":"但是誰來決定告不告就變成一件很重要的事我覺得這一方面要加油啦要加強因為也不是說檢察官移給你的案子你就一定絕對都要告我跟你說以我以前在法院的經驗檢察官起訴的案件定罪的比例有一些我舉個例子以貪賭罪為例到最後判決確定的有罪不到五成"},{"start":4959.176,"end":4977.187,"text":"那當然有一些他已經自白了有一些輕微的犯罪他也不想懶得跟你爭執了那個當然定罪的比例就高所以我的意思是說自己要有判斷的能力該告要不要告這個是你們這個機關對社會有沒有公信力的一個關鍵點好 謝謝委員"},{"start":4980.049,"end":5002.88,"text":"主委請你督導加油好不好是沒關係我們會請我們棋局跟他們保持密切的剛剛委員提到那兩點是不是增加專業的這樣的協助在就是對於選案的部分有一個更精準的標準更符合我們社會期待的標準好謝謝加油好謝謝接著請賴司保委召委諮詢"},{"start":5015.866,"end":5027.331,"text":"謝謝主席 今天去拍這裡有足足的題目我們請這個彭主委還有護睡署的署長好 請彭主委跟護睡署 宋署長宋署長 謝謝 宋署長先請教那個主委好了你這個前面啊 漏漏的講一堆好幾個委員的提案啦"},{"start":5044.513,"end":5059.438,"text":"國際金融業務等等一堆的提案主要就是我們要打造亞洲資產管理中心給他免稅對不對他原來就有啦期限到了期限到了現在OVU是沒有期限啦"},{"start":5059.778,"end":5084.028,"text":"OIU是早期4年期限OIU是117年期限到了這是它在3年後到期OIU呢是今年到期 已經到期了今年2月到期 沒收就沒付 沒付息了希望在年底以前還來得及年底以前怎麼付不是 它可以追溯 因為那個報稅是到明年報好 那我請教那個署長 受署長這樣子稅數有多少啊"},{"start":5085.623,"end":5108.153,"text":"就是根據稅務評估報告,這是有金管會提供的我記得是金額不大,應該是幾百萬而已因為他們的最初還有所謂最終以及他們用同樣的方式如果要達到效果,他們直接支出需要更多"},{"start":5112.114,"end":5127.659,"text":"樂見其成我們敬表尊重敬表尊重 你們是幾百萬 一百萬 九百萬沒有 主要是跟委員報告 就是過去我們的這裡不算稅喔 這裡是營所稅 營業稅 印花稅 所得稅"},{"start":5131.52,"end":5160.308,"text":"跟我們報告就是過去我們在那個境外的保險分公司叫OIU的部分過去因為確實業績不彰所以剛才講我們的稅損是很有限的我想剛才也看到過去這麼多年來但是因為最近我們在推動這個亞洲資產管理中心特別針對境外的客戶就是外國人我們希望打造一個整合的金融服務這裡面就給規模會跨到多少"},{"start":5161.709,"end":5189.627,"text":"這部分我無法預期預期預期你預期一下我覺得我上次給保險局的一個想法預期漲5倍好不好漲5倍我們給的稅市支出就是未來的估計每年稅損大概是600多萬而已漲幾倍 業務會漲幾倍如果漲幾倍就非常可觀因為我們去年其實我們總共才多少"},{"start":5190.512,"end":5193.301,"text":"我們的...我記得是...我記得很低啊!"},{"start":5193.301,"end":5196.07,"text":"張哥五倍也差不多啊!張十倍也差不多啊!"},{"start":5197.098,"end":5216.161,"text":"長10倍我覺得假設我們今年超過10倍如果所以去年那麼低的基期我覺得應該是很有機會超過20倍如果所以去年那麼低的基期今年的話因為我們已經公告會開放新的產品超過20倍啦好 這樣稅損我們支持啦稅損省了600億超過20億的規模可以嗎不是20億啦好 那個署長可以了 請回 署長請回好"},{"start":5225.163,"end":5234.457,"text":"我們來看受險業這波的台幣升值傷害很大它總共你看到的報表"},{"start":5235.666,"end":5256.556,"text":"他的虧損有多少?受險業其實跟委員報告一下其實很好估計啦我們現在受險業37兆的資金裡面有23兆在海外剩3兆扣掉7兆多是外幣保單不用有匯率的問題裡面大概15兆15兆裡面大概六成避險六成避險除以下就是剩6兆美元"},{"start":5257.216,"end":5265.469,"text":"就是6兆台幣2000億美元左右所以一塊錢的這樣那個漲跌就是差不多總體約略估計2000億的影響數"},{"start":5269.653,"end":5293.65,"text":"六兆兩千億 兩千億怎麼算啊六兆等於是兩千億美金所以說美金跟台幣差一塊錢差不多 譬如說台幣貶值一塊錢它就就是未實現損益這樣的話所以剛才原來講數字差不多就外匯市場差了兩千億就虧損兩千億對 扣掉了那個外交準備資料那我就要請問你喔這個 這個"},{"start":5299.155,"end":5319.828,"text":"這個公衛啊 他們希望說這裡面計價RPC的計價過去都是六月底嘛一個數字啊 一個點對不對現在他們有要求 有拜託希望能不能用均價比如說過去的半年內的均價來算這樣的話 財務報表比較好看一點你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":5321.949,"end":5350.766,"text":"但是柯文報告軍價是一個非常非常中性的做法其實我們以前那個我們叫RBC的股票就是用軍價就是說假設我們市場是緩跌的時候你會覺得軍價有利但是往上走的時候軍價是不利的我想這是個中性的我現在就問你的立場你贊不贊成軍價沒有我覺得因為昨天在我們的記者會我會表達就是我們要維持市場的穩定是我們很重要特別是我們明年要接新的製作這RBC只剩半年的效期啦RBC接下來就會走入歷史了所以我們"},{"start":5353.508,"end":5367.86,"text":"換成新一代清償能力所以我們新的制度所以這部分我們昨天也有對外說我們會來仔細的思考工會這個東西他們建議我們以穩定市場順利過渡為優先我覺得這個方向我們已經正在研議中了"},{"start":5375.065,"end":5390.595,"text":"這個因為它有一個比如說我們是要半年報嘛所以今年來講的話我們接軌之前最重要的時間點就是6月30號這個半年報的財報因為到12月30號那個點已經要換成新的制度了所以6月30給答案6月30號的報表應該就會有這個答案"},{"start":5396.508,"end":5413.824,"text":"所以現在還不能這樣對 因為現在還要經過工會他要給我們一些的數值但是你傾向於同意可以這麼說好 這個就是說主委的意思傾向於同意那麼可以考慮 不需要丟點就是用平均值"},{"start":5414.464,"end":5430.18,"text":"為什麼要這樣做 其實就像我們當年當時考慮股價為什麼用在RBC的時候為什麼要用這套制度因為其實真的6月30號那個時間點並不代表它只是一個結帳我們看清償能力是看長期來 我請教你啊"},{"start":5433.144,"end":5449.628,"text":"請教你 今天雖然財政部相關官員國庫署長不在 今天只是負稅署長我就不問他了行政院已經正式的對外講了要設立國家主權基金這個賴總統親自對外宣布的"},{"start":5452.318,"end":5476.723,"text":"然後呢 因為央行堅持不可以用五廠使用二存體所以政運也善理回應了 所以有潮那出錢的人隨時出錢到財政部 財政部長在這裡的時候他跳起來沒有問題 財政部撿到錢錢所以說五存 幾千億不夠嘛 那幾千億算什麼你說四十五都來放主權基金"},{"start":5477.483,"end":5502.649,"text":"一個方式發行主權基金公債這個點是好不好我想剛剛委員提到一個重點其實主權基金這個概念在不同的國家有不同的財源像最有名的像挪威這是大家都知道挪威純體的它是石油嘛它是因為它開採在北海的石油它所那個財富它把它做成這個那也有人採用公債的方式用債券的方式發行"},{"start":5503.129,"end":5531.2,"text":"那我想說這部分我們尊重相關權責部會的這些思考我只是說假設從我們這個金融市場的資金的這樣的一個投資的去向來講的話確實長期穩定而且具有一定收益的公債會是一個尤其是以台幣計價的公債還有一個重要的原因我們的資本市場老實說只有股票市場發展的還可以我們債券市場都是一塌糊塗"},{"start":5532.27,"end":5560.78,"text":"多發行公債這個時候此其時也我們要發行主權基金錢怎麼來向老百姓來啊中華民國這麼用到對不對來用老百姓的錢用老百姓的錢二十年以後還你利息看多少這是一個很好的而且可以把公債市場活絡起來一起好舉得啊怎麼看都是對的"},{"start":5561.69,"end":5583.568,"text":"其實我們也有去跟授權業者了解他們的需求他們確實以資產負債管理來講的話他們真的需要有更多的台幣投資機會所以我才講說像我們的兆元投資計畫所以我就是問你啊你會不會鼓勵授權公司鼓勵他買主權基金公債"},{"start":5584.289,"end":5597.258,"text":"其實我們是鼓勵了他要做好資產負債管理這是最根本那如果這是個好標的當然就是一個我們很好的一個國資國家這麼贊成啊賴清德跟我這麼贊成啊要去美國投資啊對不對這麼贊成日本來投資日本要跟美國成立聯合的主權基金我不知道這個什麼會有兩個國家的主權基金啊我是聽不懂啦我們支持魯頓聽不懂兩個國家主權基金啊台灣都"},{"start":5613.228,"end":5636.749,"text":"好 最後一題喔這個 這個你是專家啦不是昨天 有某一個軍控公司的董事長承認啦 承認軍控公司的董事長他現在不是了他說了 台幣不應該一次噪聲 應該緩聲"},{"start":5640.319,"end":5660.699,"text":"你聽過這個話了嗎?很多種說法,各式各樣都有昨天那位董事長講,你知道嗎?信菜的其實我們很多種說法啦昨天比較update的消息啦好,可是,還生,那就回到1985年廣場協議還生的結果,日本失落三十名"},{"start":5661.46,"end":5689.049,"text":"他的因為環生大家認為說他一定慢慢升所以熱血一直進來跑哪裡就跑兩個地方一個股票一個房地產股票不斷的上升房地產不斷的上升上升到後來泡沫就變成一個disaster一個很大的災難對國家來講都變一個很大的災難所以現在來講就是到底環生還是一字生竹環生"},{"start":5689.989,"end":5707.7,"text":"對於出口業者有時間調整可是 可是意味緩升太多的外資會進來 進來 do nothing就等著他升值 以後再出去然後呢 再去買房地產 買股票就會變成泡沫化 這個你擔不擔心"},{"start":5708.226,"end":5732.716,"text":"我想剛剛委員提到匯率我真的不是專家,央行的同仁在這邊你是經濟學博士,你自己人啊沒有,我想匯率的部分假設我們就我個人對這個事情的粗淺了解就是廣場協議是很久以前的那時候的國際的政經的複雜度跟連結度跟現在是完全不同而且美國的態度也沒辦法像當年這樣完全的"},{"start":5733.752,"end":5753.802,"text":"就是跟現在狀況很不一樣當然過去的歷史大家都會好好的去看我想從過去這個幾個月來大家就看到了這個不是第一次被提出來那當然很多的講法都有那是不是歷史會重演其實我覺得這個事情都要我時間到了我再做幾個comment"},{"start":5755.851,"end":5783.251,"text":"廣場協議那時候是英法美德四個國家去打一個日本現在是川普打世界其他國家是不一樣的這是第一個不一樣第二個我們都知道現在來講川普希望美元強勢的要走弱長期走弱這個對其他國家都有深植的壓力其實我就是問你一個小問題你結束了我就下去"},{"start":5784.454,"end":5812.049,"text":"你贊成反省還是一事到位沒有我覺得這個我們沒辦法預期啦但是你這樣說就沒有給我答案了你就是給我一個爽快的答案你prefer你prefer我沒辦法prefer他應該有可能是環扁有可能未來就是很難預測我覺得這個我們都要有兩方的想法昨天那一位是現在是大公司大集團的董事長以前當過金控的董事長"},{"start":5812.489,"end":5834.674,"text":"那也是一家公司啦我就不要講他名字了大家都看到他講的時候緩身我嚇一跳緩身就鼓勵熱情慢慢進來台灣然後造成我們的股市泡沫我們的黃市泡沫要很小心耶當然我們隨時都保持警戒跟小心謝謝市長 謝謝委員謝謝接著請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":5849.172,"end":5850.672,"text":"主席有請彭主委請彭主委委員早安主委好主委我想今天還是就較於這個中頂的問題因為我辦公室這邊有特別是對中頂的這個財報去了解才發現中頂這個孫公司控股公司在投所謂的中頂美國"},{"start":5875.12,"end":5885.544,"text":"這個部分基本上對這家孫公司的資源非常的多不論是資金給予83億之外去年增資了31億總體投資又超過56億"},{"start":5890.166,"end":5918.129,"text":"然後在去年認賠的情況底下認賠16億的情況底下還繼續增資31億甚至呢在今年的第一季的財報當中呢還對這一個客戶端違約的部分的這一家能源公司也就是說他的子公司就是建造這個升值柴油廠的子公司還答應他要重整重整的部分有一些股東的特別條款之外還提供22.5億喔"},{"start":5919.75,"end":5928.157,"text":"也就是他回來回收的不過是45億他還要投資22.5億下去那總體來說我們在上週提到這個問題的時候中頂的合併資產的總金額當中196億佔了15.7佔了15.7這對財務有一定程度的一個挑戰結果他回收來45億又要投入22.5億那原來這個工程是228億結果呢總共投入變250億"},{"start":5949.754,"end":5977.342,"text":"這好像看起來是無底洞啦無底洞說財報當中有很多誇張的地方我再去跟您說明一下這他財報當中寫的說工程只有採完工的百分比的進行認列的方式也就是所謂的里程碑付款的方式做到多少拿多少但事實上他完工了百分之百他只拿到百分之二十啦對啊這付款條件很清楚不合理啦對啊這個工資勢力很顯然出問題嘛"},{"start":5978.544,"end":6000.63,"text":"我講到這邊主委你有沒有這樣的感覺我想上週委員就關心這個議題我也承諾說要請交易所跟我們那個政局要仔細了解這部分當然這裡面有兩個層面一個是公司經營的層面雖然我們是上市櫃公司的就是主管機關但是我們對他不是像金融機構一樣這種所謂的"},{"start":6002.611,"end":6023.182,"text":"有這麼多的接力我們主要是針對像證交法36條第三項你有沒有如實的去針對剛剛講的委員提到那個重大的訊息還有合理性他很顯然已經違反公司治理的一個那個治理原則而且你去看喔這個整個他的子公司的這個總經理高層一直在變動"},{"start":6024.503,"end":6052.796,"text":"相繼的辭職你給他 給這個獨厚儀PKRF這個深植燃油廠的這個公司之後呢總經理就辭職了後來找了一個又辭職就是很清楚嘛 很異常你要去看喔 他在投資下去的22.5億當中呢這是有追加投資異常的現象啊如果追加投資異常的現象可能會導致什麼結果呢一來 工程的這個洗錢的可能性"},{"start":6053.615,"end":6065.534,"text":"第二個呢 按盤是一個分立的可能性第三 私下酬庸的這個可能性這都有啊你不要等到事情發生了才造成這個投資人的損失啊"},{"start":6067.425,"end":6088.987,"text":"當然剛才講說我們在資本市場的管理有它一定的強度範圍那剛才跟委員報告過那剛才講說這部分如果說細節的部分我可以請那個張局長跟我們說明好 局長可以來講一下交易所調查的結果局長跟交易所回答之前這件事情已經積欠上百億了中頂過去都沒有寫說未預期而且呢"},{"start":6090.174,"end":6109.357,"text":"整個違反百分之百認列的模式在財報上來都沒有披露這有沒有涉及到這個財報不實跟委員報告這個財報的部分交易所已經全面去查核他的狀況當然在一個禮拜都會有初步的看頭才會一個禮拜就會有結果是不是"},{"start":6110.858,"end":6124.465,"text":"因為股票連跌四次引起投資人的恐慌今天投保中心的董事長要來嗎 杜董事長你上來一下董事長董事長 我就教於您中頂我們都有持股對不對"},{"start":6132.296,"end":6152.447,"text":"我沒有不是你啦好像是你們投保中心今天有沒有派人去投保有今天有沒有派人去今天有今天已經派了四位同仁去有四位同仁去有沒有發問有我們已經準備了一個清單什麼清單我們在質問他問題站在投資人保護的立場你今天早上九點的股東大會你有沒有上場去問"},{"start":6153.027,"end":6175.54,"text":"有,我們之前在上禮拜五就已經發函給鐘鼎鐘鼎在昨天就已經回函給我們一些問題針對他的回函我們今天又再追加了一些問題請他在股東會上股東說明好,那你所問到的這些內容當中就是跟證交所還有包括政情局會診一下要以招供信,你請回,你有進入狀況"},{"start":6176.941,"end":6201.804,"text":"那另外一個部分呢 主委我要問一下齁這個其實你們花一個禮拜的時間去查齁這總統的跡象來顯示出來這個治理上出現了很多問題不論是內控的審計制度的問題或企業風險的問題或合約履約管理的問題子公司管理的問題或資訊透明度的問題啊每個面向都有問題啊這問題這麼多的情況底下欸 那個獨斗難道沒有看到這些問題嗎"},{"start":6203.206,"end":6229.578,"text":"也就是說政經局要求交易所去查這件事情的時候也應該把獨董的責任跟角色了解清楚剛剛有委員提到就是我們對於投保中心對於獨董的這些的角色還有他的責任釐清也有做這個說明委員報導我們剛才的我們是禮拜五的發函也有給獨董所以我們今天在股東會上如果有必要我們會詢問獨董"},{"start":6230.779,"end":6251.614,"text":"當然也要問清楚啊 四個獨董都非常大咖的獨董如果獨董不失任 主委你請回到備詢台如果不失任的話 之前我就要求過所以獨董的角色之所以這麼關鍵賦予這麼重要的角色跟任務就是要讓公司治理得以落實嘛如果沒有辦法辦理這種角色的時候就應該變成黑名單嘛 是不是 主委"},{"start":6255.587,"end":6277.783,"text":"那我想我們會因為這個事實還在釐清當中因為我們也不適合在公開講說我們要對誰究責但是制度在那邊我們就會來處理我就針對制度而已嘛如果查有類似情勢的產生那就應該列入黑名單的考量對 如果說我們現在對獨立董事的資格要求就有這樣的話那我們就會按照這來處理"},{"start":6278.824,"end":6305.239,"text":"督董是做一個內部監督很重要的關鍵但是有一個東西你還沒有辦法執行的就是影子董事更大的麻煩今天就跟你談公司治理嘛在去年7月22號的時候杜絕大股東職權不服亂象主要大股東就是影子董事要拼下個會期修法已經一年了咧主委我這邊提醒你一下"},{"start":6306.44,"end":6312.495,"text":"你去年的時候就踢過說去年的下會期就是去年底的時候要拚下會期修法嘛"},{"start":6313.374,"end":6341.905,"text":"後來我看你法案也沒有送出來對 因為這個確實我們原來條文我們內部擬過很多版本但是呢我們就覺得這裡面還要再更周延我們最近又在會因為昨天在我們記者會對外說明說我們包括幾個重點我們大概都已經對外說明了我們未來會朝什麼方向來擬我們會盡快的提出我們的草案送行政院我跟你說 獨董那個主委你要快一點有這個影子懂事的產生的存在"},{"start":6342.665,"end":6363.584,"text":"就沒有所謂的公司治理的可能啊如果影子董事都可以存在在外面指揮的話有權無責的話那何來的公司治理不是嗎對 是沒錯所以我在上面已經也有揭露兩個非常重要的原則第一個就是一定要權責相輔不能夠有權的人無責那有責的人卻是要承擔這個"},{"start":6365.005,"end":6392.625,"text":"這是一個很簡單的公司治理的很原則第二個就是說所有的決策都是透明的那透明當然不是說都公開都有跡可循你要拚行政院之前假設你現在新年現在已經到接下來就六月了嘛你至少再拚個下會期修法或這會期要送進來下會期修法你至少一個工作目標嘛這本來就是我們預計的這個時程對 是的影視董事存在老實講我個人理解的部分還算普遍"},{"start":6394.266,"end":6409.237,"text":"其實應該傳聞不斷耶對 其實我們已經朝這個方向來努力啦因為很多其實不只這個 我們還有其他的部分可是你的方向 你的方向的修法方向又如同之前的黃錢主委一樣停留在只有罰款的部分嗎因為他之前是要獻權我們會從整個更制度面來看徵責一種是獻權 一種是徵責一個就是說徵責就包括處罰"},{"start":6420.01,"end":6435.297,"text":"那當然 罰則是一定有的 否則你訂那個規定呢如果說沒有明確的罰則 那個規定是沒有用麻煩一下 希望透過你的法制面的努力能夠把這一個飲食董事杜絕啦 好不好當然 這是我們努力的方向好 接下來問最後一個問題"},{"start":6436.88,"end":6451.135,"text":"最近的這個央行在升息的時候會帶動這個貸款方的一個利息成本然後呢但是隨著這個調動在之前第七波之前都是同比例的成長"},{"start":6452.253,"end":6471.821,"text":"但是我發現在第七波的信用管制之後五大銀行的乘坐的購屋的利率卻異常的偏高起來這個偏高的方向已經開始增加從這個連續去年九個月去年九月央行明明有升息但是貸款的利息卻不斷的攀升"},{"start":6473.402,"end":6493.332,"text":"李唐是逐步成長現在逐漸攀升的情況已經接近0.1這種資金成本的部分會造成房貸利款利率不斷增加我認為接下來對這個購屋族來說是一種額外的負擔甚至會造成這個斷頭如果說你說看起來好像是以量治價但是卻是"},{"start":6494.512,"end":6517.437,"text":"銀行自行圖利嘛但是卻造成一些市場的亂象主委你這要不要去注意一下這個其實我們對這個房貸啊我們從去年開始有這個應該是去年這個信用管制以後我們就幾乎每週在控管這些內容我想說這部分再像比如說我們也看到我們現在的房貸的餘放現在是0.080.9成喔那個"},{"start":6521.378,"end":6542.912,"text":"那個九升是因為我們最近的存款的那個成長沒那麼高啦就是因為分母的關係我想這個零點零幾之間那個些微已經不具有統計的顯著性了我只是說這個相對我們現在還是很低而且我們所有不動產都有提列1.5%的壞帳那等於說如果這樣反算大概20倍喔就是實際上我們其實銀行在做這件事情的時候其實已經非常謹慎的在做"},{"start":6544.853,"end":6570.732,"text":"這個部分是這樣即使我們的建築融資也只有0.16那實際上是一個非常非常低的這個水準那如果假設1.5來算也差不多十倍的安全啦所以我只說這個我們都在嚴格監控利率確實剛剛從委員講的確實有可能是因為最近是真的可能二字頭以下是看不到了啦但是上面的話大家是確實我們要確保幾件事情在"},{"start":6571.84,"end":6590.85,"text":"因為這個信用管制不是我們在但是我們要確保我們的房貸能夠順利的供應民生需要這是我們金管會會來會來努力除了量之外不應該讓他負起負擔太大不要用以價自量的這種概念當中來增加那個貸款戶的一個負擔我主要是做這樣的提醒我們會來關注這個議題好麻煩主委費心謝謝謝謝請宗嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":6612.95,"end":6621.438,"text":"主席 下場委員先進 列席的政府監事長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委委員長"},{"start":6626.297,"end":6653.447,"text":"主委今天來跟您請教一個有點歷史的問題因為我個人在學校大學是念歷史好來回顧一下2020年五年前高鐵公司疫情當年度大發鼓勵這個時間寫得很清楚2020年初已經有疫情了但是到了三月的時候高鐵要配息給股東1.22元連三年創新高結果要發多少要發69億"},{"start":6655.94,"end":6677.997,"text":"這個幫你回顧一下當年這個情況但是下一頁結果過一個星期高鐵公司宣布說暫緩他們本來在前一年度宣布的在2019年宣布說我們2020年員工要調薪因為COVID-19所以呢暫時不實施結果那時候我就被工會找上了"},{"start":6679.827,"end":6690.854,"text":"高鐵當年發高額鼓勵卻暫緩調薪,員工認為是瘦小肥大,肥了小員工,肥了大股東。請問,當高鐵當年這樣做的時候,你認為合理嗎?"},{"start":6697.95,"end":6718.587,"text":"我想這個案子可能委員比較清楚,中間可能不是這麼簡單,不過我覺得就是以這是兩件事情,一個是針對股東,一個是針對員工可能那個狀況我這邊不便評論,因為我沒辦法知道他所有的來,我再舉例,我們公司治理啦,2019年公司大賺錢嘛"},{"start":6720.182,"end":6735.871,"text":"那大賺錢到隔年才會發放股利嘛所以對股東來講我在2019年我買了你高鐵高價的股票我就期待你高鐵當年大賺錢之後隔年我發放股利同樣的高鐵當年的員工他領的薪水比較少"},{"start":6736.531,"end":6753.801,"text":"但是公司大賺錢他當然希望兩個第一個當年的年終獎金發多一點第二個公司承諾獎金沒有發那麼多但是我來年更好我給你調薪因為獎金只有一年調薪上去之後你年年薪水都提高你是高鐵員工你當然希望說來年會怎樣調薪調高一點"},{"start":6756.423,"end":6768.865,"text":"可是股東到了第二年COVID-19了高鐵整個盈餘盪下來你覺得高鐵這時候前年的盈餘他是要保留下來度過寒冬還是趕快給去年高價買高鐵股票的股東鼓勵發一發"},{"start":6770.131,"end":6798.019,"text":"我想這跟行業別也不太一樣假設他今天是有個資本是逐利的這樣那個行業那實際上他有個資本成本在裡面他就要好好想這件事情如果他是一個本身來講牽涉他未來的預來判斷因為本來事業經營就有上有下這個對股東而言股東不會是你永續股東他可能今年參與明年參與但是員工可能也不太一樣我說這個其實行業不同其實有很大很大不同是 您說到重點了股東跟員工高鐵要照顧誰"},{"start":6799.119,"end":6825.536,"text":"同樣道理 受險公司他有兩個對象一個是保護 一個是什麼 股東好啦 我們來看一下台幣增值重創保險業的RVC還能發放股利嗎後來高鐵經過我們這樣呼籲之後呢他意思意思啦 本來要發1.22的 他發1.21啦他的股利呢 少發了5572萬少發了5000多萬可能呢 後來列入資本公積但是今年我們受險業 欸前幾年 現在已經合訂了喔"},{"start":6830.861,"end":6843.987,"text":"是不是受益要保留銀彈不要去年把股息發放出去主委您的看法您說要審慎思考對不對對確實審慎思考您的決定是怎樣您的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":6844.983,"end":6864.411,"text":"一樣,就是說其實上我們受險公司他在發放鼓勵的時候,如果各位有注意到的話帳面跟實質能發的,即便是太平的時候,我們也不是說比如說你這帳面上一百的淨利就能夠發一百,不是,我們現在大概的CAP大概是定在20%原則上是這樣,本來就很保守了"},{"start":6865.011,"end":6878.158,"text":"那再來的話其實在發現金的時候上一次在會期的時候也有委員質詢這件事情我們確實也請他們審慎的思考因為為什麼總體經營你當時在發放鼓勵可能很早前就決定了甚至都要"},{"start":6879.226,"end":6907.754,"text":"都要經過股東大會的決議但是現在有些我們社群公司有分兩大類一個是獨立的公司一個是金控下面金控下面已經沒有股東大會他隨時可以決定他是用董事會來代替嘛所以這裡面的話我們就也有跟他講說如果這個部分你要不要再審慎考慮確實有一家他就說好我考慮了我就好這是一種道德的勸說那另外一個呢其實在金控下面的子公司他發放鼓勵的不是這家社群公司發言那個是他有"},{"start":6908.294,"end":6935.221,"text":"母公司的持股啊對所以他們其實我們知道監控法53條有個強制增資的義務所以監控公司的那個那個顧慮可能跟一般獨立公司不太一樣所以他們經過審慎評估因為前面已經大概有20%的保守的這樣一個發放以後再來他其實上有上面還有監控那個那個那個那個層次還有加上法定增資的義務呢他們仔細考慮過而且金額也沒有很大所以他們大概還是決定我覺得所以你講的很周延啦簡單講啦"},{"start":6938.055,"end":6963.732,"text":"授權公司背後上面的金控如果授權公司賺錢是回饋上面的母公司嘛他虧錢也要增資啊對 虧錢要公司但是如果他虧錢不增資賺錢要回饋母公司這樣是不是就不對的對 但是因為這是金控法無三條強制增資的義務他沒有選擇是 那我們要等著看那些RBC資本市主力不足的有沒有強制增資我們看一下來 您過去常常提到授權公司有兩個一個是保險監督公司治理保險"},{"start":6966.051,"end":6993.888,"text":"監理呢有檢查報表然後呢要人身保險業資本市租率的報告要填去相當的表格以便呢 接軌我們ICS新一代的清償能力但是在公司這裡不能拿到的財務報表呢未來要接軌IFS-7還要加上你們金管會規定的保險業財務報告的編制準則請問一下這兩者投射到我們保護跟我們的那個股東好 來下一頁這個講到IFS-7IFS-7真的是那麼一定"},{"start":6995.173,"end":7021.554,"text":"放諸四海都接準嗎?你認為我們未來接個IFAS-7,每個國家都要用嗎?當然這個因為基本上IFAS的話是我們在國際上最共通的一個,但是也不是所有好,不是所有的國家都要用好,那是不是所有的行業都要用公平性?那是一個基本的原則那授權業適合嗎?我想這個看公平性的定義是什麼?就以字面來看當然是每個授權公司都要用,還是說有的公司,產權業用授權業不用?"},{"start":7022.642,"end":7045.284,"text":"那就是公平性看就像比如說我們民法上呈現原則我想大家都不會反對啦好但是你說到一個還有一致性不能前後矛盾但是一致性呢在2023年就發生過重分類嘛這2022年嘛對不對那時候原來訂的是OCI後來改列為AC這樣子當年2022年的時候保險公司很多大型公司才因此而逃過了"},{"start":7046.206,"end":7058.141,"text":"那是一個美國大幅快速升息對 聯準會英式升息我們都說暴力升息但是這樣的改分類有沒有前後一致改分類之後它的流動性可改變啊"},{"start":7061.123,"end":7076.72,"text":"這個其實它這樣分類也是符合IFAS的精神只是它的過程當中 本來IFAS就允許你們公司經營模式的改變但是只是說在那個當下可能認為說這個時機上這是歷史案子那我們來看一下"},{"start":7077.521,"end":7094.648,"text":"社會協議院的財務報表沒有辦法正確的反映什麼反映它保險業的特性嘛我們人壽保險我們產品週期長因此保險公司要做投資保留一些未實現的資產來應付未來的償付能力是不是這樣子是的所以我們人生社會協議院你看過去的海外投資高達七成這也是目前我們雙綠 匯綠"},{"start":7097.029,"end":7118.409,"text":"跟利率對我們台灣的本國社會經濟造成衝擊的影響好 那我們往下看那麼如果顧及清償能力跟股價呢你的檢查報表要看它資本數值率這才是未來的保護長期的清償能力但是短期內你要年度截清年度截清剛剛講到了如果有可觀獲利維持高檔股價還有發放股利現在剛剛前面幾位委員問到了6月30號"},{"start":7120.231,"end":7147.838,"text":"那一個日期財報怎麼定?您說有人說要從前半年的日均價主委您看法呢?就是說剛才講的話就是如果說我們從剛才講假設按照像委員非常非常的清楚剛才兩個分頁一個叫監理會計的範疇的話我們是看的是它的報表所顯示的是未來清償能力的比較接近未來長期有沒有清償能力這時候我們就不會看單點所以我們在股票的時候就是用均價來衡量"},{"start":7148.758,"end":7176.674,"text":"比較能衡量它長期的其實因為它的持股它是不會大部分都不會變賣的所以用一個均價來衡量但是呢因為我們現在會計準則它就希望每天每天反映相關的資訊所以它特別著重幾個時間點就是月底的月報比如半年的6月3012月31號的年報實際上就以實質來看這幾個時間點並沒有什麼特別的意義只是會計方法原則上大概就公定那一天所以它就以那一天的反映那常常會"},{"start":7177.614,"end":7202.013,"text":"捕捉到一個不是一個全貿一樣所以剛才講委員你問說以長期經營觀點的話我們剛才有委員問說是否我們未來有考慮用軍價的概念我們剛才說我們朝這個方向來思考這是兩件事情嘛對 但財報的部分因為牽涉到各行各業那可能就不太一致我記得主委過去曾經說長期的清償能力你是用過去來預測未來這不可能的"},{"start":7202.677,"end":7221.429,"text":"你拿照後鏡不能看到前面的風景用照後鏡開車蠻危險那你怎麼去我們金管會作為監理機關怎麼去預估判斷他未來的清償能力然後我們現在的股票股市大眾他要看的是股價他要看的是你的公司的財報那怎麼平衡你們的做法怎麼做"},{"start":7221.989,"end":7233.134,"text":"這也是我們在整個台灣這麼獨特的受險業它所必須要面對的一個挑戰因為確實這套財報制度如果以這樣的衡量各位就可以看到那個波動會非常的大"},{"start":7234.185,"end":7258.213,"text":"因為他主要是很大的部位的未實現損益會進入他的損益表裡面就剛才講是評價的問題但是一般投資人可能用一般產業來看那他的比如說他的損益的數字這麼壞大概就做出很不好的判斷或是看他損益這麼好就做出很好的判斷其實上這是一個會計制度跟這個行業特性之間所形成的一個關係所以主委最後一個你要"},{"start":7259.401,"end":7286.42,"text":"講出你的謎底了啦這些保險業的未實現資產透過財報到了我們金管會除了看我們會計公報之外是不是金管會還有一個保險業財務報告編制準則你們如何透過這個編制準則去調整這個長期跟眼前的這兩個矛盾是不是說為了要採取半年的均價又或者是說過去三年他們的保費獲利創高那麼怎麼樣去限制他的股利發放請問金管會有沒有一個很清楚的一個立場"},{"start":7287.473,"end":7305.16,"text":"其實我們現在還在努力溝通中,剛才講說保險業財務報告編準的原則上是應該是follow IFAS的精神,因為它本來是編制財報用的但是我們剛才講那個RBC的填報手冊或是未來的ICS這個部分是有另外一套的方式來計算所以今晚會對這個資金填到?"},{"start":7306.781,"end":7324.486,"text":"但是那個財務業務報告編準則也是一個我們法定的工具啦這是我們也來想想看因為這需要社會共識因為這牽涉到各行各業本質上金管會又是財報的主管機關財報準則主管機關所以這部分呢我們就要我們會做出一個研究後的結果"},{"start":7325.605,"end":7348.687,"text":"我們要更審慎來因應這個問題只會有一個結果希望能夠在剛才講我已經提到那個很專業的兩個能夠平衡好那最後還是問你那你覺得這種情況下現行的壽險業要不要放股利我覺得剛才提過了假設很多人以為說他今年帳面多少就發多少我剛才已經解釋過了他已經有一個已經頂多只有兩成的這個額度之內再來呢"},{"start":7350.208,"end":7375.835,"text":"他們又是假設在金控下面的話那實際上金控本來就保證的義務我覺得由他們專業來判斷我們已經提醒過他提醒過他他不要試圖的要迎合市場大眾的需求讓大家有誤解或者說發放很多的鼓勵所以最後的結論就是說請研議衛食授權業的財務報表吻合其衛食線資產的特性那保險業的財務報告編制準的調整方向是不是可以一個月內給我們一個書面的一個說明"},{"start":7376.795,"end":7382.538,"text":"我可以給委員一個比較完整的說明好 謝謝主席也謝謝主委好 謝謝嘉賓接著請林思明委員質詢好 謝謝主席我請那個彭主委好 請彭主委"},{"start":7401.735,"end":7415.954,"text":"主委早主委早我想主委針對今天我們來針對我們金融國際業務條例還有證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法的相關的修正"},{"start":7416.735,"end":7440.342,"text":"我想看過你的報告還有財政部也有做報告相關的行政院的整個修正的草案我想我是可以支持的是沒有太大的意見我今天就針對限控令的退場還有普發現金還有融資專法來救教主委首先就針對限控令的退場"},{"start":7441.522,"end":7466.419,"text":"我想主委在上週我們台股終止五連紅加上金管會宣布在星期一就這個26號這個限控令退場我想投資人擔心的是說你台股震盪的還在震盪的一個走勢那麼加上川普總統他時常的變臉而且他是再度的變臉"},{"start":7468.903,"end":7495.278,"text":"他宣示說在6月起要將對歐盟課徵高達50%的關稅燒燒降溫的關稅又發爐了甚至還預告可能對iPhone還有對半導體加稅導致全球資本市場立刻風聲鶴唳但是金管會卻選在這個時候把這個保險傘收起來宣布限控令退場"},{"start":7496.735,"end":7517.175,"text":"那所以我想請問為何選在這個時機點也就是說我們看起來整個這個關稅的政策還是不確定啊川普的關稅政策然後整個我們看到現在股市的走勢還是在震盪啊甚至有往下的一個趨勢那現在來解除是不是雨天收傘啊"},{"start":7518.496,"end":7540.13,"text":"為什麼選擇這個時機?這個喔,也跟委員報告我們做這個不是臨時起義我想我們也觀察過過去我們兩個最重要的穩定股市措施比如說一個就是金管會針對非理性因素的這些暫行措施這個期間都不長"},{"start":7541.03,"end":7565.819,"text":"我們平均的時間大概就1.5個月左右過去這麼多次因為這是一個會每天時時會影響市場機制的動作我們主要是針對不理性的這樣一個行為回想今天的情況跟4月2號到4月7號狀況有沒有相同應該是很大的不同再來就是說其實上我也特別重申就是說金管會是一個資本市場的主管機關"},{"start":7567.119,"end":7593.18,"text":"某種程度來講的話我們是針對擾亂市場機制的這個突發狀況來進行這個所謂的調整那但是這個工具我們隨時都可以做不需要比如說開會那另外一個我剛才講的就是像我們的國安基金它必須有一套的程序那是不一樣的所以我的意思是說我們市場要盡早的回歸到市場機制這個讓市場去看就像"},{"start":7594.622,"end":7611.561,"text":"昨天兩天疊很多人就說雨天說那如果今天又漲起來又怎麼說就像我們在做這個判斷我們不知道川普下一秒會說什麼就像我即使延後我也不知道他會說什麼這個就是我們要隨時因應這個不確定性所以主委所以你是從基於說你是這個"},{"start":7614.197,"end":7627.794,"text":"這個期限你認為不宜太久這樣聽起來可能要回歸市場機制不能太不宜太久當時的時空就像我們可以看就是說因為我們這個措施本來就是一個暫行不會是一個常態性的因為我們市場"},{"start":7629.015,"end":7653.456,"text":"剛才有委員提到我大概知道你的意思那我問你一下就是說因為你當時4月7號採行的限空令有救世三支箭對但是我們現在看到你是把兩支箭現在已經回復了就限空令拿掉另外一支箭就是調整回復每日盤中借券賣出委託數量以及最低榮券保證金的乘數但是你仍維持最後一支箭"},{"start":7654.016,"end":7677.232,"text":"就多元擔保品的補繳融資自備款或融券保證金額的差額措施這是最後一支件你又保留那為什麼保留最後一支件就等於說我們本來就是我們假設你融資的時候你要提供擔保品過去我們有一些規定說比如說你的擔保品只有ABC三種但是我們發現其實你可以做擔保品的東西在那個特別的情況下"},{"start":7678.473,"end":7696.769,"text":"不是只有這三種而已那我們可以假設在臨時的情況比如說零股也可以或是債券也可以比如這樣但是因為這是臨時性加進來但是做了以後發現這個可行我沒有必要把它拿走因為這是為什麼?券商自己決定說我要融資給他的時候我希望有個什麼對我的擔保"},{"start":7697.99,"end":7714.738,"text":"那個已經做了以後呢當然就保留不會說因為這個就把它抽那假設我們現在正在正在做人那不是很奇怪所以我們就說好那就這樣的話那就希望你把他這個東西把它常態化但是那個法規要做一些調整就我你沒有回答我的問題我說你最後一支箭啊"},{"start":7715.578,"end":7737.452,"text":"那當初就是保留最後一支箭,當時曾麒麒他當時是表示說,訂定這個這樣的一個措施是因為當時的狀況緊急恐有規定有不明確,他自己也問曾麒麒,你自己也聲稱說這個規定恐怕有不明確的疑慮,會跟證交所研擬確確的規範"},{"start":7739.794,"end":7757.586,"text":"那目前研擬出來了嗎現在我們很快的就會請交易所跟櫃買去把這個訂出因為主要是券商說那我其實所以你這個都是很臨時的去想出來的所以你現在退場的時候這一支件你還保留"},{"start":7758.506,"end":7782.474,"text":"所以我們是不是還沒準備好啊現在很多人一支箭你拿掉這一支箭你又保留這個跟那個情況很不一樣我想我可以再找時間再跟委員做說明主委我想時間很關係其實我的意思是說我們希望說如果要把這個三支箭同時就是拿掉依照現在目前的情勢我還是希望那個金管會你要做更審慎的評估啦"},{"start":7782.934,"end":7809.944,"text":"我們隨時都拿掉這個投資人他們這個疑慮很大其實我們就是這個一定遲早要退場遲早是一定要退場的因為我們怎麼選擇可能要更謹慎一點沒有我們的市場本來就是應該因為我們我再三重申台灣的股票市場已經二三十年不一樣台灣是一個國際上非常重要的資本市場我們所有的運作的方式要盡量跟國際對接OK 謝謝"},{"start":7813.386,"end":7826.561,"text":"來 針對普發現金啊 主委我想上市上位公司的股票如果要這個上漲投資人要獲利 業績是不是很重要那當然他是來自他的損益啊是一個非常關鍵的一個因素嘛"},{"start":7827.625,"end":7856.508,"text":"那我們看在2023年政府普發六千元現金的時候當時有人力銀行他們所做的民調結果顯示有七成的企業認為說普發現金對當年的業績有幫助同時也有網路媒體調查民眾領到現金後的十大用途為何時其中排名第五大的用途就是小額投資也就是包含買股票"},{"start":7857.429,"end":7876.336,"text":"所以主委 主計總處與財政部是堅持反對普發現金但主要是因為他們不必理會股市的漲跟跌他不必在乎民眾的投資是否有獲利但是站在金管會的角色金管會是負有股市心事的一個責任"},{"start":7877.777,"end":7898.477,"text":"所以我們看先前普發六千元現金的時候企業與民眾的反應所以金管會你是否會贊成我們在野黨所提的普發現金一萬元這樣的一個我想這個問題真的不是金管會所能夠評論的事情這個真的不是跟我們有"},{"start":7899.838,"end":7924.67,"text":"主委你不適合評論我知道我是說我剛才講已經把前提告訴你了嘛因為你負有股市心事的一個責任嘛對但是我們有很多種方法站在你的立場當然財政部或主席還有他的立場就我剛才跟你講的這樣的一個角度跟立場你認為這個可能對股市的心力是有幫助的喔當然站在你的一個主管機關的一個立場跟角度你是否應該贊成啊"},{"start":7925.931,"end":7952.502,"text":"其實市場上所謂的我們市場講所謂利多利空的因素非常的多並不是所有利多的因素我們站在金管會就要支持我想也不是所有利空我們就要反對因為我們的金管會不是在做指數的這個我們不關心這個我們關心這個市場是否安全是否公平是否穩健所以這個我都認同但是我只是說就這個點來看的話"},{"start":7954.423,"end":7981.214,"text":"因為這個對普發現金對整個企業的業績也是會有所幫助的嘛這個都是基於實質調查的嘛那對民眾去投資股市也是有所注意的嘛所以從這一點我是認為金管會從你的一個股市心事的一個角色上面你似乎可以大膽的說啦其實這個政策是可以支持的"},{"start":7982.314,"end":8007.896,"text":"這樣的做法是可以支持的這我想我還是沒辦法回答還是沒辦法回答委員這個問題所以我再問你就是說融資公司法上週在草友會的融資公司法的公聽會中陳彥霖副主委他提出幾點理由表示反對設立專法第一個理由是認為融資公司並沒有吸收大眾的資金因此清償能力不足以產生金融風暴的問題主委"},{"start":8009.537,"end":8036.852,"text":"所謂的大眾你的定義是什麼就是說其實很多人誤以為跟錢有關就是金管會我想這是一個全世界在金融監理一個非常重要的一個概念為什麼我們要管理銀行為什麼管理保險公司因為保險公司銀行資金是來自於不特定大眾的錢他的經營失敗會對這個社會產生重大的傷害當假設比如說融資公司他的資金來源並不是來自於不特定的大眾"},{"start":8037.853,"end":8054.74,"text":"它主要導致的問題不是這個機構比如說它經營失敗而引發的問題而是它對消費者的行為產生問題像銀行的話它有兩個我們都要管一個是這個機構我要管得牢牢的不能讓它發生事情所以你認為你認定的第一的大眾"},{"start":8058.325,"end":8084.833,"text":"不包含一般的我們的基層的這些人民不是 就是我們不會把錢存到融資公司去啊不是 我現在是講借貸跟融資公司借貸對 融資公司借貸是他的業務行為借貸的大眾他的定義是什麼是不是就一般我們的人民或者是包含學生我們現在看到有學生 有軍人都去跟融資公司借貸不過委員你誤會了這個不叫大眾嗎我說那個機構本身"},{"start":8086.593,"end":8107.556,"text":"他為什麼錢可以帶給一般民眾,他錢從哪裡來?如果錢從一般民眾來的話,不特定大眾來的話,這個單位一定要嚴格的管理,就像銀行保險公司一樣。但如果說這個錢是他自己的錢,就像我們的當鋪,我們的很多,他的錢如果說他今天去借給別人,是要管這個行為有沒有不公平。"},{"start":8111.659,"end":8132.517,"text":"融資公司他的錢不是很大一部分都來自於跟我們的金融業者所借的嗎但是他是法人不是對一般不特定的大眾所以我們不會把錢可能我現在講的點跟你講的有點對不上我一直講說所謂的大眾我是講說這個跟融資公司借貸的這些民眾"},{"start":8133.197,"end":8160.147,"text":"因為我為什麼要提出這個問題就是說你們一直反對設專法一直反對設專法沒有我們沒有反對專法其實我們現在就是用專法來管理你說這個可能這個這個依照目前融資公司的借貸問題還不足以造成金融風暴所以我就很好奇這個依照陳主委的說法這是一個消費爭議發生了金融風暴才要立法嗎對"},{"start":8161.067,"end":8176.465,"text":"金融風暴意思比如說銀行倒了保險公司倒了民眾受到很大的影響現在都是消費爭議我們看到案例就是說這個廣告不實明明跟我講說只有10%的利率為什麼最後收這麼多錢"},{"start":8178.627,"end":8195.176,"text":"為什麼我只有一台三十萬的車為什麼你可以借我一百萬你為什麼沒有做到你的公關車主委我的意思為什麼是立專法我意思是從保障消費者的角度來做這個立法來做考量啦所以我希望能夠立專法啦"},{"start":8196.296,"end":8210.622,"text":"這樣才能夠真正不是只有管理這些我們所謂的這些融資公司而已那如何讓整個消費借貸向融資公司借貸有更合理的一個專法能夠來去做規範保障我們整個消費者的權益這個比較重要"},{"start":8214.944,"end":8243.509,"text":"我同意委員就是大家的目的都一樣要保護受到不公平對待的客戶我想主委我最後就是建議說希望金管會要再次的審慎的考量設立專法的必要性現在就是在專法管理了現在我們就朝著只是那個形式不是說單獨立一部法律我們是用法律層次的東西而且是用金融機構的程度來管理他們好我們私下再聊好了沒問題我再跟委員報告謝謝"},{"start":8244.289,"end":8244.729,"text":"主委早"},{"start":8267.979,"end":8291.646,"text":"主委面對未來這幾年的國際金融環境金管會長里的銀行業務跟保險業務有什麼方向及風險可不可以請主委簡單說明這個問題非常非常地廣泛我想第一個其實不同行業他所面對到的風險不太一樣不過未來的變動性變大這件事情是所有的金融機構都必須面對的我們以"},{"start":8292.766,"end":8313.603,"text":"比如說銀行為例 那未來假設關稅或是這些國際貿易上面導致經濟下行的話那當然對他的貸款未來的這些的這個業務推動還有甚至未來的比如說這個還款的能力都會產生影響我想這部分是我們要看的"},{"start":8314.324,"end":8328.394,"text":"那另外一個就是假設保險業剛剛很多委員指教的非常的多假設今天是因為利率匯率跟股市這些波動呢都會讓他的一些經營上產生很大的這個壓力這些也都是他們要面對的問題大概是"},{"start":8331.998,"end":8344.836,"text":"未來變動很大,關稅、匯率這些都攸關很多當然受選工會對未來監理有兩項建議第一個就是要增加外匯價格變動準備金的裁員"},{"start":8346.089,"end":8368.928,"text":"那第二個是調整匯率計算方式那我強調就是說我們台灣受險業海外投資的金額高達23兆23.28兆那影響的層面可以說是非常大所以今晚會要做足準備啦讓我們能夠安心啦是 這個我剛才講說金融監理的首要就是市場穩定跟消費信心"},{"start":8369.929,"end":8376.707,"text":"好 再請教主委那配合台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心那研議修正將"},{"start":8378.339,"end":8402.096,"text":"OIU免徵營利事業所得稅、營業稅、印花稅及免予扣繳所得稅之實施時間延長到124年年底12月31日延長OIU租稅優惠到2035年我們先回顧OIU租稅優惠實施的成效評估從你們去年寫的報告"},{"start":8403.417,"end":8416.543,"text":"原預估國內保險公司36家設立OIU但是到112年底為止只有有20家業者包含了產險4家、售險15家、再保險1家獲准設立並開業那達成率只有55.56%所以要請教主委"},{"start":8424.207,"end":8434.607,"text":"這雖然是去年的報告但是也是你們今晚會網站成效最新的一篇報告所以時隔一年那目前這個達成率多少"},{"start":8435.595,"end":8442.701,"text":"大神韻有沒有增加?這個我印象中應該是差不多維持這個數據但是最近應該會有很明顯的改變原因是什麼?困難是什麼?主要的原因是過去這個市場萎縮很快"},{"start":8457.653,"end":8470.784,"text":"這個主要針對外國非本國籍的客戶做境外的客戶那當然就是這部分其實保險公司他有他自己的商業考量但是最近為什麼我剛才講說可能又會活絡為什麼要修這個法律"},{"start":8472.205,"end":8497.504,"text":"是因為我們在推動亞洲資產管理中心希望留財引資希望我們國人流落在海外的或是外國人的這些人能夠來跟我們來做進行金融服務的交易其中保險商品也是一個很重要的點他們看到這個機會了所以他們政策開放所以他們會再來加重這塊的業務所以很多保險公司表達這個意願具體的作為呢就是說去輔導這些還沒設立的業者"},{"start":8499.782,"end":8505.829,"text":"其實因為我們這36家雖然是很多但是真的有能力做的我覺得不見得是全部啦"},{"start":8507.113,"end":8529.295,"text":"所以沒有全部納入啦他都可以來申請但是他自己覺得說比如說我本身就是一個外資公司我就在全世界都做其實我也沒必要做這個還有就是我自己呢在台灣我就做這個本國客戶就好了我也不想做這個主委那我再請教就是說我們看到這個保費收入表現更落後"},{"start":8530.501,"end":8556.19,"text":"受險OIU的保費收入僅達預期的4.65%這是怎麼回事就是剛才講說我們在過去的客戶還有就是他覺得保險公對這個商品對這個市場他們就是慢慢的覺得他們沒有這個需求所以他們就做得少這是他們商業自己判斷的問題那殘險更是更淒慘殘險的收入接近零"},{"start":8558.581,"end":8559.865,"text":"我們的市場規定在這邊那主要來講的話"},{"start":8565.424,"end":8592.862,"text":"那是不是有很多提到什麼原因啊說國際政治與法規的限制啊還有洗錢防治強化啊中國大陸限制資金流動等等那針對這些實務障礙儘管會有哪些具體的策略還有規劃所以說我們的策略之一就是我們這次透過這樣那個亞洲資產管理中心結合OIU OBU OSU一起我們希望打造一個叫OAMU就是境外資產管理"},{"start":8594.463,"end":8615.131,"text":"分公司或分行的概念所以我們因為這個到期了以後呢假設我們開始要推動這個所謂的國家經濟發展政策的時候就失去了這個稅賦的優惠的時候呢我覺得跟國際上的競爭就有很大的差異那我們既然這次呢推亞洲中心希望能夠跟香港新加坡跟其他的"},{"start":8615.891,"end":8628.05,"text":"城市競爭那我們當然就是希望維持這個這個租稅會以前就有只是今年到期了我們希望能夠那個請求大院能夠讓我們通過然後再延長10年"},{"start":8631.307,"end":8651.945,"text":"這個根據報告就是OIU國外債保險費收入達成率57.9%低於預期那主要原因有很多啦有天災損失這個損失率持續攀升國際債保市場價格去硬化還有地緣政治風險日益提高還有近期的利率變動推高的這個資本"},{"start":8653.406,"end":8673.175,"text":"資金成本那導致這些保險業者採取更保守的這個核保策略減少承接高風險業務所以這些因素就是國際局勢還有地緣正式的不確定性讓業者在投資決策上更加嚴謹那既然考量到OIU已有延長到2035年的這個租稅優惠"},{"start":8675.657,"end":8684.315,"text":"這個是租稅優惠是一個重要的誘因但是請問主委說除了這些租稅優惠之外那其他的這個監理配套還有政策配套是什麼"},{"start":8685.767,"end":8708.512,"text":"剛剛提到這些嘛剛剛委員講的真的是非常非常到位就是我們整個的保險市場在國際上它有一個所謂的核保週期就是有時候它會市場上會比較萎縮這個我們說進入到所謂的硬市場他們叫Hard Market通常有發生重大的事故變化以後損率會提高損率提高的市場就開始"},{"start":8709.893,"end":8723.113,"text":"比較難買到保險萎縮但是隨著時間經過他又進入到soft market就跟經濟景氣是一樣的就剛好剛剛委員提到那段時間呢大概就屬於所謂的hard market時代但是這個東西就本來就是一個國際上就會這樣有這樣週期啦"},{"start":8726.444,"end":8734.708,"text":"推動台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心 是我們當然支持OIU的租稅優惠延長就是希望說能夠吸引國際保險業務進駐擴大我國保險業在國際市場的規模跟競爭力 這我們都知道那擔心的就是說"},{"start":8748.234,"end":8763.02,"text":"租稅優惠如果只是減輕稅負層面那無法帶動有效的帶動實際的業務擴張還有投資成長那這樣子的話我們又沒有其他的這種配套措施那租稅優惠淪為單純的一個稅收減免"},{"start":8766.061,"end":8787.466,"text":"那如何確保這些優惠能夠轉化成國內保險業務的長期投資動能跟國際競爭力的實質提升這才是我們想要尋找的答案其實我們剛剛指示的非常對其實我們不是只有租稅租稅是一個最基礎的因為我們是做境外客戶本來就是沒有的那只是說他做了以後本來你沒有他就沒有"},{"start":8788.246,"end":8803.705,"text":"那最重要像比如說剛剛委員說還有什麼措施比如說我們最近就開放了我們保險業可以做一個國際上面可以做的保險商品在OIU做這就是一個我們會未來對接國際上面的這些OIU的產品這就是另外一個策略"},{"start":8804.586,"end":8826.882,"text":"就是說我們會開放新的產品讓他們可以在OIO來做針對外國人或是這些外國的這些資產管理客戶有這個需求我們就看提供這樣的產品我想這個全新的這樣的做法會陸續的推出來對啦 主委我們避免淪為形式上的誘惑那當然的話要具體的做法有效的提升謝謝主委謝謝委員好 謝謝顏康安衡委員現在我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":8842.619,"end":8871.135,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8904.376,"end":8904.856,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8928.002,"end":8928.022,"text":"蝦子"},{"start":8960.213,"end":8990.043,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8993.317,"end":8998.758,"text":"謝謝收看,下次見"},{"start":9035.498,"end":9035.678,"text":"這裏有個大廈"},{"start":9065.332,"end":9067.697,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9085.159,"end":9085.559,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9115.208,"end":9115.508,"text":"謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":9146.776,"end":9149.177,"text":"這張照片是在2012年10月1日拍攝的"},{"start":9175.12,"end":9175.36,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9207.134,"end":9208.615,"text":"謝謝大家謝謝大家"},{"start":9242.435,"end":9250.419,"text":"中文字幕 李宗盛"},{"start":9286.418,"end":9287.84,"text":"蜜蜂"},{"start":9318.198,"end":9318.639,"text":"這裏面是一間餐廳。"},{"start":9358.167,"end":9358.187,"text":"鞭筍"},{"start":9381.293,"end":9397.815,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":9400.417,"end":9408.964,"text":"我們進來這邊的另一邊,要把氣水刷進去,但是我們可以小心一點,我們要小心一點,我們要小心一點,我們要小心一點,我們要小心一點,我們要小心一點,"},{"start":9458.696,"end":9458.716,"text":"鞭筍"},{"start":9477.793,"end":9477.813,"text":"蠔油"},{"start":9538.84,"end":9538.86,"text":"請坐"},{"start":9556.516,"end":9559.597,"text":"下一質詢請賴會員賴昭緯發言謝謝主席有請金管會主委請彭主委委員好"},{"start":9575.563,"end":9589.48,"text":"是 主委早安這個在上個禮拜我們那個執行有關那個就是代辦的一個詐騙的一個問題那今天其實本席想跟你探討的就是說這個進入這個消費者貸款"},{"start":9592.023,"end":9612.797,"text":"那就是消費者貸款突破了13兆那我們從央行的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了從2015年的7.45兆到今年3月已經突破了13兆那這個就表示說國人的消費那個貸款的金額其實是不是"},{"start":9613.598,"end":9627.827,"text":"很明顯的一直在改變那會不會國人已經進入一個大負債的時代事實上基本上是肯定的那我又從央行跟主計總處的一個資料裡頭我們來看那如果從2015年那個"},{"start":9630.548,"end":9641.518,"text":"總代的額度是7.45兆當時它的GPT是17兆那這一個7.45兆佔了這個GPT的44%可是到了2024年那總代的金額是12.92兆那GPT是25.55兆那佔了51%"},{"start":9652.228,"end":9663.468,"text":"其實我們都看到了就是說這個數字的一個跳動那主委你認為就是說消費者的貸款越來越高是好事還是壞事"},{"start":9665.517,"end":9692.649,"text":"這當然如果說從這個數字來看應該是我們來看數字是往上升消費者貸款就要看他的這些消費者的分佈以及他貸款的形態是什麼那我想這部分我們應該比如說有可能是信用卡或是其他的比如說我們多元支付所產生的這有可能還有就是另外一個就是房貸就是不同的屬性有不一樣的風險屬性"},{"start":9693.789,"end":9712.338,"text":"那我們從這個圓餅圖看得出來,就是說他信用卡的一個行賄信用的一個已額其實才佔了1%然後我們的黃貸佔了86%,房屋的修繕跟汽車的這個房屋修繕其實是零的,汽車的那個貸款是2%"},{"start":9714.039,"end":9740.371,"text":"那林林總總還有個人的一個消費性貸款佔了11%那我們看得出來是黃貸佔了非常重要的一個比例那信貸還有信用卡循環的一個年變的這個變化的一個變化力的一個增加我們看到了就是說我們一直抓出來就是說這個都明顯的一個上升尤其是在疫情疫情這段時間它"},{"start":9742.432,"end":9766.921,"text":"就是當然是會上升可是在2025年其實基本上沒有一個特別的一個狀況2024、2025我們都明顯看到信用貸款的一個上升那主委你認為是什麼原因造成的呢剛剛其實委員剛剛那個圓餅圖裡面就可以看出來其中大部分都是房貸剛剛那個11點多兆就是我們自用住宅的部分"},{"start":9768.106,"end":9795.542,"text":"因為這個當然是看起來是應該就是看起來兩大塊一個是信用卡的部分一個就是我們的房貸的部分因為房貸我想大家都知道最近幾年房地產非常的景氣嘛所以購屋的人也很多那移轉動數也很多貸款也在增加所以去年當然很關心的就是72之二水準那個水位是不是過高還有就是央行也出來做了這個信用管制我想大概都是因為這個很多因素終結起來的"},{"start":9797.963,"end":9818.331,"text":"接著跟主委探討一下在信貸的部分剛好有兩大族群一個是30歲以下一個是61歲以上他們的信貸破了60歲以下有很大的一個數據讓我們很害怕就是說每一個人借到50萬50萬這個人數一直都在創高"},{"start":9821.992,"end":9830.618,"text":"甚至就是說60歲以上成長了146%30歲以下成長了124%這個平均的利率我們看到了從30歲以下當然他的利息那個利率一定是比較高他借到8.3%"},{"start":9843.146,"end":9866.116,"text":"就到8.3 這男生喔 女生的話是8.9那60歲以上的話是5.3跟5.4甚至我們Google進去就是說 你要借貸 那你要投資他很明顯就告訴你說 你要去買ETF因為這個有固定的 你可以領固定的配息"},{"start":9867.236,"end":9889.481,"text":"那61歲以上當然我們知道就是說他可能銀行會跟你講啊你有一筆那個退休的一個基金你可以來做什麼樣什麼樣的一個投資可是30歲以下這些大學生這些年輕人甚至剛進入社會他們面臨到的一個就是觀念投資觀念的一個不正確你看負債比這麼大"},{"start":9891.701,"end":9914.032,"text":"那我們怎麼來講說這個新型債務年輕化的這一個問題呢甚至我們看到了一個非常聳動就是說學生貸你只要有一支手機那普惠幫你完成你的夢想你靠你那支手機你可以借到了一個額度最高15萬那每個月的利息最低是255塊這看起來又好申請"},{"start":9917.153,"end":9929.695,"text":"然後審核又快然後在很快就一個小時就換款了這普惠就是快然後又有隱私那你怎麼看就是新型債務的年輕化呢 主委"},{"start":9930.523,"end":9947.418,"text":"我想這個部分剛剛委員那個資料已經非常非常充分的這樣看出各個年齡層那比如說剛剛各個年齡層現在年輕人呢確實是他在舉在上面看起來是比較積極我想這個相關的內容我可以請童局長給你簡單做個分析"},{"start":9949.881,"end":9965.94,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個議題那的確我們在過去其實就已經有要求銀行在貸放的部分不管是哪一個年輕族群也好或者是高齡族群我們都有DBR22倍的這個限制也就是他必須要去衡量到他的收入才可以去做對等的消費性貸款"},{"start":9966.881,"end":9987.768,"text":"那另外一個部分就是說委員這個投影片所出示的應該就是委員所關心的有類似所謂的這種貸款的這個中介公司那這個部分上一次有跟委員報告銀行是絕對不能夠有代辦進建的案件之外我們會在那你有沒有感受到有一個類金融有更大的一個"},{"start":9988.988,"end":10013.231,"text":"新型的一個債務風暴其實它正在成形啊你感受得到嗎我們從這麼多的一個數據我列出這麼多的數據給你看你有沒有感受到跟委員報告您提示的這部分我們會加強注意但是在銀行體系的部分銷金的信用如果撇開銀行的部分我們不要來談其實我今天要跟你們談的就是一個新型的一個債務"},{"start":10014.392,"end":10030.382,"text":"它不管是年輕化還是一個龐大的債務其實它正在成形主委我想2005年的卡債風暴這個是把我們整體的一個社會進入一個非常恐慌的時期甚至就是說我們提到了一個案例就是說"},{"start":10031.283,"end":10050.289,"text":"在那幾年有很多人就是虛假殆盡的去那個躲債了跑掉了甚至就是說在台北市還有一戶只因為欠了三百多萬的卡債那六個人有五個人陸續在松山的陳美橋跳河自殺這個造成社會很大的一個震撼"},{"start":10051.869,"end":10077.64,"text":"要跟你探討的就是說你的債務協商你的申請那個消費者債務清理條例然後就在2008他成立了可是我們有沒有去追蹤後續後續我們這些成功力量我們看不到那看不到的時候這個消債條例在上任之初好像顯然是很多人受惠了很多人解決他的債務問題可是後面呢後面這一些問題怎麼辦呢"},{"start":10079.501,"end":10101.21,"text":"我想剛剛委員提的那個2005年那個雙卡風暴那時候引發很多比如說幾乎只要很多學生那就會辦卡辦現金卡辦卡我想在剛剛同學提到了後來其實整個營養體系痛定思痛針對整個比如說KYC還有這些封控的部分已經有大幅的改善"},{"start":10102.17,"end":10115.682,"text":"剛剛提到這部分的話當然隨著這些另外一種環境的變更很有可能假設有這些未來有些潛在的威脅我也會請我們銀行局這邊針對銀行體系的部分我們會好好來監控這個情況"},{"start":10117.443,"end":10133.263,"text":"其實你上任到現在你算是一個非常那個願意做事也是非常有創意性的一個主委如果我們給弱勢的這個經濟弱勢的年輕人多一點不悲哉的一個機會有沒有可能當然有可能"},{"start":10133.743,"end":10158.505,"text":"我們引用很多就是說我們抓到了很多就是這個數據裡頭他告訴我們說如果從學校到社會前面去推動金融的一個試讀這個其實在我們那個金融院裡頭2023年的報告他有特別講到了他說他們去調查有60%以上的大學生其實他們沒有辦法真正的去理解信用卡的循環利息"},{"start":10159.105,"end":10178.341,"text":"所以就是因為在這個知識這麼淺薄的然後他沒有辦法去了解到說他負債的這個嚴重性所以他掉進來了那甚至在國外比照美國的ESA的一個制度他就是由政府跟僱主共同去建立一個不可提領"},{"start":10179.662,"end":10208.543,"text":"不可提領的一個除夕帳戶那專門用在這個醫療還是失業還是災難你看喔有很多人是因為就是醫療就是他生病了他沒有錢還是他的人生就做了一個很大的一個降低下來那是不是有辦法就是說我們去建立這樣子的一個那個推動這樣子的一個那個設計然後提升年輕人就是他在財務上的一個脆弱性啊有沒有機會"},{"start":10209.624,"end":10227.222,"text":"我想其實我們在我上任以後我也跟銀行局講普惠金融很重要的是要照顧到各個年齡層尤其現在我們的青年他在金融服務上面相對是弱勢所以這部分我們要怎麼樣提升剛剛提到剛剛委員有"},{"start":10228.163,"end":10247.857,"text":"有幾個想法我以前都還不知道所以我想說這部分我會是不是回去研究看看這個東西我們來看看是不是真的是比如說我們金融市場能著力還就是比如說我們針對金融機構因為至少金融機構是在我們很明確的管理之下我們鼓勵他們我們也是希望他們多多提供"},{"start":10249.438,"end":10268.733,"text":"針對青年朋友們的金融商品符合他們的商品那這部分呢也是我們正在請銀行這邊來加強推動的部分所以說主委我們給年輕人一個不背債的一個重新的一個機會所以本席在這裡要求金管會在6月30號以前以書面回覆以下研議的一個事項"},{"start":10269.474,"end":10284.372,"text":"就是你去檢討這個消債法的條例裡頭施行的一個成效跟改善的一個策略並且研擬就是建立一個申請消債或是債務協商者的一個追蹤跟輔導的一個機制那我們要加強資訊的一個揭露"},{"start":10286.414,"end":10310.927,"text":"那研擬加強提升金融理財的一個教育這個理財教育相當相當的重要還有風險的一個模擬這個疫警的一個機制我們希望提升年輕世代的一個財務韌性的一個方案那第三點對於金融消費者的一個保護尤其是對於金融創新的業務研擬是不是可以比照英美等國家轉向是"},{"start":10312.268,"end":10327.189,"text":"行為的監理這個行為的監理非常的一個重要不要我們都是只靠金融機構其實還有就是類金融的行為我們就是納管以免漏接掉消費者"},{"start":10329.161,"end":10345.591,"text":"主委 那個本席對你這樣子的一個要求那請就是把書面那個回覆給本席是 沒問題特別是剛剛委員提到第三個就是我們剛剛有委員提到金融消費者保護法納管那個就是針對行為管理就是這個方向好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝"},{"start":10374.586,"end":10400.878,"text":"好 謝謝羅明財委員接著請羅明財委員質詢慢慢來 慢慢來主席各位 初列是關於的主席可不可以請彭主委請彭主委委員你好 彭主委你好自從川普的關稅大戰"},{"start":10403.612,"end":10426.679,"text":"在那段時間台股突然急劇的下跌金管會提出了限空令這段時間為期大概多久限空令已經解除了對整個股市未來的發展會如何"},{"start":10427.878,"end":10439.81,"text":"那對於這個美國的關稅大戰下一次再引爆大概是什麼時候不曉得你們有沒有做一些沙盤推演"},{"start":10441.428,"end":10460.836,"text":"那其實剛剛也很多人關注其實我們就一個我們已經算是國際級的資本市場了有限空令是例外回歸市場機制才是原則的狀態我想我們也盤點過去我們在過去針對特殊情況所做的一些的"},{"start":10461.816,"end":10476.249,"text":"緊急的應應措施裡面大概就是一到三個月平均大概1.5個月這次差不多也差不多在兩個月之內我們就覺得說市場在這個階段並不是說未來不會有波動這大家都知道只是我們已經"},{"start":10477.21,"end":10495.829,"text":"不像上次4月7號那個時候的狀態那我想說盡快回復剛剛我也提到我就打個比方就是說我們出權久了酸軟無力我們在這個情況我們允許的情況我們先收回來隨時保持警戒我們才有下次出權的這個實力所以我的意思是說"},{"start":10496.71,"end":10522.402,"text":"本來我們面對未來不確定就是個常態了那我們做過很多很多的模擬推估我們內部有很多的演練當然我們這些都是我們未來在市場監理的常態所以我們都會適時的提出一些因應的措施因為未來很難說就像我們每天大家都會看到有不同的國際情勢的變化但是我想大家也慢慢觀察到了大家已經不如4月2號"},{"start":10523.643,"end":10523.663,"text":"臺灣的"},{"start":10546.618,"end":10565.045,"text":"股民最近好像喜善溫暖,一下是暴跌一下又拉升其實這個心臟如果不好的,其實最好不要投入股市做每日的當沖或者是短期的操作"},{"start":10565.825,"end":10587.983,"text":"主委你正不正統就是民眾以長期持有為準那短期的操作其實就是參考參考就好換言之就是請教主委現在全台灣這個股民有開戶的"},{"start":10589.324,"end":10607.313,"text":"大概有多少人?經常的出入的戶頭有多少人?大戶有多少?你們手上應該有資料吧?有,這個所謂的大戶要定義一下啦我知道我們現在的開戶數應該超過一千萬了超過一千萬?一千萬人?對,應該是有超過一千萬人我們待會,請同仁準備一下數值跟委員報告因為這個部分台灣的開戶比例算是蠻高的一般民眾參與"},{"start":10617.322,"end":10645.171,"text":"我們的開戶數值當然是1343萬7千那這個已經過半了對 確實所以台灣民眾對於台灣證券交易市場的參與度 黏著度 關心度其實是非常高的這要看他交易的實質的實動戶還有就是他 等於說這個是開戶數就像我們每個人手上都有好多的銀行帳戶你常用的其實可能沒幾個 對不對"},{"start":10647.062,"end":10666.05,"text":"所以主委你正不贊同就鼓勵全民來投資台灣的股市這個我們從其他國家裡面的一個實施經驗比如說我們現在普遍的這個開發國家都面臨到所謂的未來少子化高齡化未來所謂的"},{"start":10666.69,"end":10692.948,"text":"退休的壓力所以我們也看到很多國家從大概從2000年左右開始推動所謂的鼓勵全民長期投資資本市場的這樣一個促進措施就是我們各位聽到了很多的ISA就是個人投資儲蓄賬戶的概念我想越來越多的國家朝向這樣建立民眾第三支柱的概念來做我想這也是當然投資者有風險我想說就好像"},{"start":10694.429,"end":10719.714,"text":"我們也無法避免我們的資金總要有個投資的區域就像比如大家談到就是說我們是買基金或是買其他的這個這不同的種類但是我覺得就以投資風險分散的角度來看我覺得資本市場也是未來我們資產配置一個應該是要可以考慮的項目所以聽起來過去講養兒防老現在就是不如買股好"},{"start":10721.622,"end":10747.356,"text":"就是在資產配置上如果持有適當的股票對於退休之後的一些規劃也是有所幫助那我們再來看一下就是這幾天講得沸沸揚揚的主權基金不曉得主委贊不贊同台灣來成立一個主權基金"},{"start":10749.893,"end":10763.704,"text":"我在上次也有表達過這國家的政策呢我們在金管會立場我們當然是支持但是這部分我們就是覺得這個在這個時候如果需要的話我們比如我們金融市場其實也"},{"start":10764.685,"end":10765.927,"text":"主權基金規模要多大?"},{"start":10781.286,"end":10806.121,"text":"因為我想主權基金這個概念有很多很多種形式有各種各樣的投資策略還有它成立的背景這很難用一個多大來決定說是適當因為比如說國家的規模跟目的性跟你的長期的比如說你的目標這都不一樣還有就是你的資金的屬性從哪裡來這就決定了它整個規模我想很難有一個標準來做這件事情"},{"start":10807.517,"end":10834.845,"text":"大概我們看起來有的都是超過1.5兆以上全世界主權基金大概有90幾個國家都有設立主委你贊不贊同這些壽險公司可以把海外的資金把它引進回來來投入未來所謂我們要推動的國家的主權基金"},{"start":10835.805,"end":10852.892,"text":"我剛才跟委員報告過了就是說其實全世界受險公司都一樣他們最好的一個資產配置就是同幣別的配置比如他現在在台灣是賣台幣計價的保單他的負債是台幣那他們最好是在台灣能夠找到相對應的資產"},{"start":10854.252,"end":10878.152,"text":"那這裡面假如它是長期的負債對應一個長期的資產現金流能夠匹配的話它就免除了利率風險也免除了匯率風險這是一個最完美的一個投資結構那我想說假設未來我們有更多的像類似適合比如說受險公司投資的工具我想其實我們的受險公司就會認真的考慮了所以說"},{"start":10879.98,"end":10890.334,"text":"以後如果壽險公司他要來投我們自己推動的主權基金金管會的態度是正統的"},{"start":10890.922,"end":10919.065,"text":"就是看未來他發行假設是用公債的形式的話我覺得我們現在公債本來就有四個投資的項目而且我們給的權數也非常非常低對不對那這本來就是我們講就像我們現在很多的這個我們的受險資金是投資海外的公司債目的都是一樣希望維持長期穩定的收益為主那如果說還是同幣別的跟他負債同幣別那當然受險公司當然會"},{"start":10921.011,"end":10939.48,"text":"會有高度的興趣來看看這樣能夠讓他的資產負債匹配所謂的那個不匹配的程度能夠下降我想這也是一個大家希望樂見的一個發展方向所以你覺得主權基金的話他的每年的獲益應該是幾個百分比以上"},{"start":10940.42,"end":10963.615,"text":"這個其實有很多的研究,其實主權基金本來也是承擔風險但他們所謂的投資的標的不同就像我們所謂的基金,你期待的報酬是多少不過長期而言,他們一定要有一個自己的目標設定這很難說,你的是積極的還是比較那個,像假設新加坡他有兩個,他的目的就不同"},{"start":10964.895,"end":10993.002,"text":"比較積極性的大概一年的年報酬率是多少這我很難跟各位講那是簽證案基金屬性投資什麼標的去年大概7點多%啦這個算是比較積極型的而且操作上也不錯挪威基金也做得還不錯所以你覺得最低最低的話不論你是投資型的或者是保守型的那總是要有一個低標嘛"},{"start":10994.378,"end":11006.816,"text":"這個是未來我們假設我們設置一個主權基金他們會自己設定自己的目標剛剛委員提到像我們國際內大的主權基金其實在面對很多情況的時候它其實也會面臨到很大的波動很難講說能夠維持一個"},{"start":11010.42,"end":11036.829,"text":"穩定的報酬不過長期這個都非常非常長期來看那主要是這樣像我們會看到一些成功的啦所以當然你會看到這個指標但是其實像剛剛文獎那麼多的主銜基金也不是每一個都是成功所以我們很難有定一個標準那就看未來這個基金的屬性怎麼定義我想這部分自然會有可能還需要一段時間希望大家再多多來研究一下看怎麼樣是否"},{"start":11037.429,"end":11042.539,"text":"恰當 因為最怕的就是一個獨立性的問題還有人模不章的問題"},{"start":11044.318,"end":11073.132,"text":"所以這個怎麼樣來公正當然聖地亞哥原則也是有一些遵循的目標我希望在推的時候主委可以多發表類似國際的現階段的操作他們的嚴整性在哪裡他們成功的案例在哪裡可以多討論一下不過今天OIU OBOSU的這個部分國際金融業務我們希望可以加大力度"},{"start":11073.952,"end":11095.066,"text":"因為事實上這個努力的空間還很大因為主委希望把台灣變成是亞洲的資產管理中心看起來還需要再加把勁因為最近看到很多台灣很多公司下市"},{"start":11096.668,"end":11118.475,"text":"這也是透露了一些原因希望主委能多多關心一下上市很不容易就居然有很多的公司是下市下市影響公司 影響員工更重要的是影響了很多廣大的受害的投資人求償無門"},{"start":11120.095,"end":11131.824,"text":"雖然沒有投保中心還有所有的股票本來明天的期待落空還全部通通變成幣值所以這一點要請主委多多關心剛剛也有委員關心我們會來持續針對這個狀況做一些監控跟管理謝謝好 謝謝明財接著請李昆城委員質詢"},{"start":11148.342,"end":11160.747,"text":"那我們11點50分開放在現場用餐謝謝主席 我們請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委"},{"start":11164.248,"end":11181.066,"text":"上禮拜有關融資公司法例的公聽會與會學者專家當然有持正面的有持負面的也不是負面的就是說要立專法不立專法都有但是與會的立委同仁大概都是一致希望說能夠還是立專法"},{"start":11182.327,"end":11202.032,"text":"可是上禮拜是我們副主委過來那副主委他講得很清楚他就說不立專法我們就用金保法來規範這個融資注定公司那是不是我們金管會的態度就是我們先不立專法了就用金保法來規範是那個謝謝委員那個雖然上次沒有來啦我想他們傳達意識帶就是我想趁這個機會簡短說一下"},{"start":11204.053,"end":11210.279,"text":"其實很多人把專法就視為是一部獨立的法律叫專法但實際上立這種法律的目的是要來解決問題"},{"start":11222.31,"end":11250.568,"text":"那假設說我們已經可以用這樣的一個法律的規範就可以解決這個問題的話我們是更簡便的立法所以主委是說用金保法就可以來處理目前的租賃公司的一些亂象就對了大部分的剛剛講是消費者爭議的部分我想這部分而且我再三強調很多人說這個監管不利各位想想看我們一般人認為我們金融機構的管理嚴不嚴"},{"start":11252.269,"end":11279.806,"text":"應該很嚴吧再來我們是把融資公司指定為是這個所謂我們管理的機構以後它除了金融管理的那一套要還要再加上我們針對特別融資公司的這些的規範所以我們也歡迎各界說假設你們所關心的消費者保護哪裡不夠我們現在法規還在預告程序中把那個比如說哪裡消費者保護我看有一些學者專家還是認為說如果光靠金保法還是不夠啊對"},{"start":11280.626,"end":11300.199,"text":"他那個講的不夠的意思就是說比如說這是一個很現實的問題他要把所有的融資公司的行為全部都要把他納管各位想我們台灣沒有一個專業的像比如日本的貸金公司我們是很多的公司他只做了這個貸款就會被納管那個加速連邊界都搞不清楚對不對到底誰是"},{"start":11301.3,"end":11324.932,"text":"我們市場上看不到有一家公司叫融資公司專門只做融資的公司就是沒有所以我說其實我們要非常非常清楚的知道說我們這個專法到底要規範誰而不是為了專法而專法當然不是為了專法而專法啦大家覺得說專法能夠管的大概廣度跟密度都會比用這個金寶法"},{"start":11325.592,"end":11346.945,"text":"來得好那現在就是說那個金管會的態度就是說我們就先不立專法我們就先用新保法來做處理就對了然後分三階段來納管對那我們想說第一個假設金管會主政B獎假設說按照一般專法的概念把那個所謂的號稱幾千家的公司全部納管我想這個很多人也提到在場我也聽很多學者講說"},{"start":11348.286,"end":11361.381,"text":"未來監理的量能你做得到嗎再來就是你把這些全部把那些只要監做到這個業務的人全部把他納管以管銀行的態度去管他你覺得他們當然很擔心他們也提到日本雖然他們一直舉貸金業法"},{"start":11363.183,"end":11379.03,"text":"但是日本做了以後呢其實還有很多很多的問題啊所以我的意思是說這要審慎的思考但是我們很務實的在還沒有立專法之前金管會非常負責任的就認為我們可以來著力的趕快來著力那你現在不是還在請這個銀行公會在在這個討論說是不是要立專法"},{"start":11379.73,"end":11408.532,"text":"那是因為上次委理有要求我們要那他們的那他們的草案出來了嗎沒有他們的草案還在調整中然後我看他們應該就不用了吧因為你的態度已經確定了啊我覺得齁我覺得所謂的專法的概念大家不要執著於一部什麼叫法律我們重點是要把問題解決而且我們現在立即可行而且都還沒有做就批評說這個做不到雖然沒有這個融資公司的專法但是在金保法都已經要把這個融資公司所要這個專法所要管的東西都把它納進去了嗎"},{"start":11410.114,"end":11424.715,"text":"就是大家所關心的消費爭議的部分我覺得大家都可以在這公聽的時候你可以把你覺得哪裡不夠比如說剛才講我們在過去看很多個案上面的問題其實上已經都已經被我們放在裡面而且是法律上的事好那我就明確的問那這樣子聽起來就"},{"start":11426.978,"end":11443.613,"text":"應該是今年就不會提專法就對了我覺得今年我們會先以那個金融消防法先來做我必須講假設以金管會的監理能量不可能再管這個幾千家的公司這個全世界沒有人這樣做那主委態度就很清楚了那我只是在舉這個監察院"},{"start":11445.174,"end":11467.82,"text":"他們四月份有個糾正案,不過他是糾正財政部的他就說他一直可以放款供國營要放款給這些融資公司他是糾正財政部不過他最後也是有提到啦他希望說行政院確實評估訂定融資租賃公司的專法還有指定業務主管機關的可行性那當然這是監察院的糾正案裡面的裡面有提到啦供你們參考不過我看這個主委態度已經很明確啦"},{"start":11469.144,"end":11488.751,"text":"那再跟我們講其實過去二三十年來當然大家都支持專法只是當時沒有想到可以用金保法來解決所以當然這個觀念在轉換的過程當中大家當然覺得說奇怪那為什麼金保法當初也不是要來管這個融資公司的啊當然但是各位想想看金保法是以金融業的標準喔現在我們講說他們現在是沒有管理假設"},{"start":11489.651,"end":11510.976,"text":"融資公司是以金融業的管理的規格來管理各位是不是覺得比較放心我是覺得大家仔細思考一下這個內容既然金管會態度有這麼明確了那我們就看分三階段第一階段上市的第二階段就是大概是前有一千家左右吧然後大概可以這樣子大概管的家屬大概有幾成呢我們"},{"start":11512.296,"end":11531.708,"text":"我們接下來第二階段會把金融機構轉投資的大概15家放進來接下來我們現在台北市租賃公會的我們會陸續把他納管那大概可以管到幾成?應該會差不多40家左右40家左右那全部所管的大概就40家左右其實我們講說他必須要先在公會我們才知道他的標的他沒有在公會就管不到了"},{"start":11532.168,"end":11554.708,"text":"比如說不是管不到我們其他還有民法刑法還有一大堆消費者保護法在管理好像不是說這些無法可管只是沒有所謂的一部法律的管理就像你現在放高利貸民法也可以處理刑法也可以做並不是沒人管好那我現在就比較清楚知道那個主委的態度那剛才很多我們同仁有問到這個主學基金"},{"start":11555.609,"end":11577.655,"text":"那是不是可以用這個發行這個公債來投資那我看這個主委昨天接受這個媒體查詢也提到說這個受險業的投資能夠改善資產負債的不匹配的問題所以你也蠻支持就是說主學基金可以用發行公債的方式來收受裁員那受險業"},{"start":11578.655,"end":11595.43,"text":"也有這個意願那如此就可以不用去買其他國家的公債也可以擴大對台幣投資也可以降低這個資產負債不匹配的狀況那我想請問一下那你怎麼吸引壽賢來參加因為壽賢他還是有固定的收益但是主權基金不一定"},{"start":11598.112,"end":11613.197,"text":"因為受險業的資金是有成本的就跟銀行的放款他是有成本的他有要給那個比如說存款人的那個利息還有他存放比的問題那一樣受影公司他一樣就是說假設我們看"},{"start":11613.937,"end":11638.534,"text":"世界上主要這些保險大國他們在經營的時候呢通常比如像美國他們大部分的那個他們的受險公司的資產都會放在公債上面還有就是所謂的長期的公司債為什麼這麼做因為很簡單啊在台灣的比例很低啊因為台灣主要我們的債券市場規模沒有那麼大所以這是一個問題所以我們才會講說其實受險業一直希望在台灣能夠找到期間長"},{"start":11639.995,"end":11655.052,"text":"獲利穩定而且安全性高能夠跟它負債做匹配那主權基金有符合你剛才講這三個特性嗎這要看未來發行的條件那未來發行的什麼樣的條件可以符合這三個你講的因為我們要吸引受寫人回來台灣投資嘛對 當然就是剛才講說第一個"},{"start":11655.993,"end":11672.347,"text":"比如說他的報酬率要能夠超過他自己的成本嘛那這部分我覺得這個就是我們未來要看而且其實台灣需要有這個長期穩定投資其實不只有壽險業我們很多我們自己的四大基金也有這個問題啊那你希望壽險業回來台灣投資主權基金"},{"start":11675.37,"end":11700.876,"text":"我當然是鼓勵他們做因為為什麼就像我們最近大概在討論這些匯率利率的問題其實一個很很根本的原因就是說為什麼我們的台灣的台幣的負債沒辦法找到台幣的資產來做個對應如果這個對應就像比如美國他們賣美元保單投美元資產他就不會有匯率的問題對一樣可以維持穩定匯率日本的公司也是買他們自己的"},{"start":11701.656,"end":11716.092,"text":"固定收益的商品它也就不會有匯率的問題那台灣因為資金多但是投資工具少所以過去長年以來就形成這個結果我們當然希望說有這個管道能夠逐步的扭轉這樣的趨勢對我們壽險業的長治久安還是很重要的"},{"start":11716.873,"end":11740.285,"text":"剛剛提到順著主委的話講就是最近台幣一直升值升到快29塊了所以售銜業面臨六月資本市足率的難關剛剛同仁有問過我再問一下售銜官員有建議說這個今年的資本市足率RBC它的填報仿造股票採半年日均價的概念匯率也採半年的日均價那主委的態度咧"},{"start":11740.905,"end":11765.497,"text":"我剛剛也講過了日均價這個不是獨厚誰它本來就是一個中性的比如在往下滑的時候你會感覺日均價對你有利但往上走的時候你就會覺得對你不利這本來就是一個就是但是唯一的差別就是說看單點跟看均價的概念是你是看長期還是看短期你看即時還是看趨勢RBC是用來衡量長期穩定經營的所以過去我們在"},{"start":11766.721,"end":11786.878,"text":"股價的時候我們是用均價所以剛才講工會提這個問題尤其面對這樣一個波動的情況之下我們正在考慮這件事情所以也會接受他們的建議就是匯率才有均價的方式就對了對 這個部分我們在考慮要有數值上面的分析的影響我們會朝這個方向來思考都傾向支持就對了"},{"start":11789.753,"end":11798.243,"text":"那我最後再問一下如果台幣繼續升值的話這個會不會影響到說明年我們順利接軌這個新一代遷產能力的制度"},{"start":11799.328,"end":11824.517,"text":"我想任何一個波動因為這是隨時要變動我們在就是因為剛好就剩下半年的時間我們當然往前看的話我們當然希望能夠平穩的過渡當然我們會盡量的朝這個方向來對我就說了如果說台幣如果再繼續再升值我看這大概會是一個趨勢會不會影響這個我不敢預期本來台幣未來的波動本來就很大那如果說是繼續升值的這個方向來講的話咧"},{"start":11828.93,"end":11844.97,"text":"這個部分我們就要看情況但是我們的制度是有期限的比如說我們的RBC到今年12月30號就會退場了就會成為歷史了這個退場之後我們未來看的指標是什麼我們所謂的新一代清償能力就是我們簡稱市場講TWICS"},{"start":11846.992,"end":11863.505,"text":"對 那我是指標啊因為你本來是看是我們是那個RBC嘛我們是看淨值嘛然後看這一個RBC不能低於200淨值不能低於2級低於3%嘛這是要求這個保險業要有這個清償的能力那我再看一下"},{"start":11864.766,"end":11881.276,"text":"這個去年年底的這個就這個財報來看的話有兩家公司啦一家是三商美邦RBC才136.3那另外一家是新售是221那這兩家如果在六月份都還沒辦法達標咧"},{"start":11882.901,"end":11906.724,"text":"原則上我們是這樣我們制度的銜接我們是看長遠我打個比方假如說明年呢等於說你現在你要承接你現在有自備款我才會給你寬容給你貸款才逐年還所以要滿足一個自備款的要件就是舊的制度你要符合這個規定這是法律的規定我是說那有給他們喘息的空間嗎"},{"start":11907.725,"end":11928.973,"text":"沒有 這個就是我們為了看整個的波動情形我剛才講過 市場的管理 穩定為先因為我們要看長 我說 我已經講過很多次最近這個匯率跟利率呢 都是 特別是匯率 都是一個所謂的波動會計上面的評價 而不是真的保險公司真的把錢拿回來那是財報已經變成損失了 對對對因為保險局 王局長提到說 給他們喘息到九月有這個 deadline 嗎"},{"start":11934.915,"end":11951.344,"text":"這就要看那情況我們會針對這個半年我們應該怎麼樣讓它順利過渡正在思考這個問題好 以上先就教到如此謝謝謝謝李崑禎委員馬上請李延秀委員 謝謝好 謝謝主委謝謝主席是不是請主委 彭主委"},{"start":11966.762,"end":11981.372,"text":"主委剛聽到你回答李昆城委員其實因為這半年大環境的變化我確實認為這個是需要給一些彈性因為整個大環境的變化不是我們預料的到確實是需要一些滾動式的調整這個我也支持你的做法"},{"start":11981.972,"end":12006.301,"text":"主委因為我今天時間有限我有好幾個議題要問其他的部會所以請您簡答就好主委我最近關心到金管會這邊制定一個新規就是受險持有單一檔次被動式ETF持股的上限只能到30%那既有的超限的部分只能出不能進從媒體上我看到新聞上是說5月底"},{"start":12006.781,"end":12033.981,"text":"要上路那這個部分到底但我又聽到另外一個說法韓市是說六月中要上路我們到底具體的時間點要什麼時候要開始實施包委員我想具體我請王局長跟你簡單回答一下好你再簡單就好了因為我想大家都想知道這個具體的時間點我們應該是在六月份會發布韓市六月份發布韓市然後後面要做什麼樣的有給什麼樣彈性的時間嗎"},{"start":12035.598,"end":12054.196,"text":"已經超過那個30%的部分我們就是讓他不再新增不再新增部位再新增部位不要再新增部位維持現有的一個好那可不可以回應我就是目前有幾家售銜公司持有單一的ETF超過30%的持股哪幾間是在市井邊緣"},{"start":12069.658,"end":12078.985,"text":"新規一上路,會不會反向促使更多投信推出更多相同的追蹤標的物,同質性的ETF?"},{"start":12079.585,"end":12100.08,"text":"因為它都是追的我們台灣的50的指數嘛它都是追蹤相關的標的指數那其實這個部分譬如說像006208還有0050其實都是追蹤類似的台灣50的指數所以我們這樣的限制有沒有意義"},{"start":12102.042,"end":12117.31,"text":"應該這樣講就是說我們過去在保險法146之一系列的投資規定裡面分散避免集中都是他一向我們對投資規範的概念因為過去有很多他特殊的原因所以很多的黨是高度集中"},{"start":12118.37,"end":12138.615,"text":"我支持你的做法 我只是提醒你 他們有類似追蹤的指數我們這樣分散有沒有意義這個跟我們政經局另外的政策一樣 他們在審核這些基金的時候我們也要避免雷同你以後會有其他的做法其他我們在ETF也會做這樣的一個管理"},{"start":12140.175,"end":12156.921,"text":"什麼時候整套的管理會出來不是 這本來我們在ETF的時候本來就管理就是避免他們就是大家對 所以我才提說其實有好幾個不同黨其實都是類似最終同樣的標的嘛所以你這樣限制30%有沒有意義這個是我要提醒主委的地方"},{"start":12157.461,"end":12160.024,"text":"因為保險公司市場的監理我們實際上基於大家一個很重要你理解我監理官的想法"},{"start":12176.323,"end":12191.095,"text":"所以你真的要走這個東西所以你要有其他的工具跟手段你才有辦法去達到你今天韓式的目的出來嘛對不對我只是提醒我沒有看到你其他的韓式的你有沒有其他的做法我還沒有看到所以今天我透過這個質詢來提醒主委"},{"start":12193.237,"end":12218.514,"text":"第二個也是我長期關注的我希望我有答案啦我希望後續你可以提供我答案那第二個就是我們防詐的量能齁其實從防詐的儀表板裡面我看到從2月份開始我們財損是60億然後3月份是70億4月份是76億就是說詐騙的案件仍舊是層出不窮喔那所以我們看到金管會去年曾經也要求我們銀行都要設打詐的專責的主管"},{"start":12221.656,"end":12238.492,"text":"之前同樣的議題我問過財政部我說我們打仗的專責的主管到底是兼任還是應該專任那目前我看到我們的公股其實都是兼任兼任其實沒有辦法達到主要的目的為什麼因為他都有其他主要的業務"},{"start":12239.073,"end":12258.571,"text":"都會先把他主要業務做好他才會他不可能主要去做打賬所以這個是兼任跟專任最主要的差別所以我要請問金管會你手邊到底有沒有盤點所有的公股跟民間所有的銀行我們到底有多少是兼任多少是專任"},{"start":12260.973,"end":12286.946,"text":"我們有什麼具體的做法 希望他是專任專任比兼任好嘛 你同意我的說法對不對 主委當然所有事情如果專職專職才能把事情做好嘛對 但是我們現在第一個先要求他們一定要有這個專職而不是專職 比如說要有這個來負責任的高階主管那以前可能沒有 那我們現在有剛剛委員講的是這個人只做這件事情"},{"start":12288.127,"end":12307.854,"text":"主委我覺得因為近期我們看到銀行行員涉詐騙案越來越多這也顯示出內控失靈的狀況雖然部長今天回應我說其實有一些是他們在內部內控的機制他們自己已經警覺發聲但是如果在事前更前端他們內部有更多"},{"start":12308.934,"end":12334.745,"text":"不同道的警示機制說不定這些平常的標準SOP他們制定的更嚴謹說不定這些事情根本連發生的機會都沒有而不需要內控機制去察覺因為最近我們看到內控機制失靈其實是頻繁度是越來越高這個是我期望我覺得主委我們未來在盤點內部機制的時候我覺得我們應該要去處理的地方那最後一個就是"},{"start":12335.945,"end":12344.451,"text":"主委我要提醒一下就是說我們目前打詐的專法防制條例在去年的7月31號公佈實施那無論是從投資的詐騙網路的詐騙還有包括學生網購其實都非常的頻繁"},{"start":12352.917,"end":12367.179,"text":"我提出一個建議我覺得我們現在國人對於金融的教育的部分比照國際比如說比照美國跟日本他們在高中生他們就推動金融教育課程的義務化的課程"},{"start":12368.1,"end":12386.045,"text":"就是說哪些無論是我們一般的民眾我覺得如果可以從學校教育對於金融的部分金融教育的義務化如果我們可以提早去做一些鋪陳我覺得對於國人金融教育也好或打詐這一個部分的資訊我覺得會更嚴謹"},{"start":12387.805,"end":12404.188,"text":"所以我今天提出這個質詢我希望我們可以有一個專案可以跟教育部來去做溝通未來如何從高中的課程如何從國際金融教育的部分我們可以開始去做深耕的做法可不可以"},{"start":12405.168,"end":12421.186,"text":"我想這個方向我們是支持一定支持因為我們即便沒有再變成課程化我們現在走入校園都是我們持續在辦的好 謝謝主委但是我希望有具體的做法我希望可以在三個月之內這一個我提議看如何去回應我好不好主委你請回時間先暫停我可不可以請複稅署"},{"start":12426.58,"end":12444.621,"text":"時間一直在走 署長我不要佔用太多時間因為我這個個案可能影響到很多人我們現在不印證的部分事實上在財政部是可以列為扣除額的不印證的補助可以列為扣除額"},{"start":12445.902,"end":12459.16,"text":"那我這邊有一個個案就是他原本以為他做不孕症的治療那可以退稅但是後來被繳納六萬塊的稅款那醫療扣除的部分應該跟生育政策是輔助是相輔相成"},{"start":12461.042,"end":12479.768,"text":"那我這邊看到的是你複稅署回應說他必須這些醫療院所必須事前申請財政部的認可會計的合格才可以我覺得這跟大法官的解釋是有衝突的因為一般民眾他去做生育的補助我們國人現在都希望真的不孕症"},{"start":12480.148,"end":12496.136,"text":"我們鼓勵他去做這件事情他都會考量第一他費用的價格跟院所的評價還有他有沒有補助但國健署是不是有補助這件事情其實是非常明確的但是至於這個醫療院所有沒有在我們複稅署裡面"},{"start":12498.405,"end":12518.973,"text":"申請他是可以列為扣除額這件事情通常國人都不知道我們通常只知道我現在我如果有需要我不印證我去做這件事情我最後是有機會不是有機會是我一定可以列為扣除額但是我覺得我們現在的做法事實上是跟大法官的解釋是互相違背的"},{"start":12520.433,"end":12546.538,"text":"必須醫療院所有去申請他才可以抵扣扣除我覺得這件事情跟我們現在鼓勵生育補助鼓勵大家如果真的不孕症的話我覺得這件事情是互相違背的所以這件事情是不是可以請複稅署可以基於職權應該從個案可以去做一些審核的方法跟方式"},{"start":12547.478,"end":12550.081,"text":"否則我們當時是獵主扣除的這件事但目前其實大部分我們都知道人工升職的醫療院所目前在我們的申請裡面總共就是12家裡面只有2家是可以免稅扣除額的"},{"start":12564.258,"end":12580.915,"text":"那但是事實上目前其實人工升職的醫療院所非常非常多大家只會去想說哪一間評價比較好還有費用比較合理他根本不會知道說這間是不是在扣除額裡面等到他做完之後他這一看原來這一間他沒有申請扣除額"},{"start":12582.546,"end":12603.032,"text":"所以這個事情我覺得賦稅署應該有不同的思考邏輯跟方式因為六萬塊對於一般年輕的夫婦他做人工生殖這件事情其實費用已經是非常的高所以署長我覺得這件事情應該從個案的部分去做一些思考"},{"start":12604.31,"end":12628.28,"text":"我快速的回應你一下其實因為我們所需要17條裡面明明規定是要公立還有健保特約醫院他還有我們所謂財政部核定會計支援隊醫院才可以列報所以要費扣除他的立法意志主要是因為如果他沒有核實去申報收入他開出來收據如果一般的我們講的就診者那個署長"},{"start":12629.52,"end":12658.281,"text":"所有的醫療院所它都是合法合規的醫療院所我們現在做人工生殖沒有什麼地下的不合法不合規只是說我們我們現在就是說要列舉扣除這些醫療院所目前就只有兩家是可以扣除事實上在台灣有這麼多家都有在做人工生殖我們都希望我們這個政策我們這個列舉扣除人工生殖的補助可以列舉扣除是可以照顧所有"},{"start":12659.122,"end":12675.456,"text":"年輕的夫妻他有這個需求否則我們就跟鼓勵生育這件事情政府的政策是互相違背的所以我才請你再去進一步再去思考這個政策有沒有必要再去進一步的做調整因為這跟大法官的解釋事實上是互相違背的"},{"start":12676.417,"end":12693.267,"text":"我希望妳去看一下大法官的解釋有 我跟委員報告其實我們現在有一直密切跟衛福部那邊去合作然後我們現在的方向我們最近才剛修正了一個認定要點就是鼓勵我們所謂的醫療院所來申請像"},{"start":12695.848,"end":12719.597,"text":"醫療院所根本不會去管 可不可以抵扣他只要去管他的醫療專業做不做得好這件事情所以你看一下大法官的解釋其實是對於給付其他合法醫療院所的醫療費用不得列舉扣除這件事情其實跟憲法第七條平等原則的意旨是不符合的"},{"start":12720.117,"end":12735.342,"text":"所以我才請你再去回頭去看一下我們這個政策推出的時候跟大法官的解釋是互相違背我再次強調醫療院所做人工生殖這件事情他不會去管我的病人病患他可不可以列舉扣除"},{"start":12735.942,"end":12750.53,"text":"醫院關心的是我的醫療會不會做得好價格是不是一個合理我要訂一個什麼樣的價格但是這整件事情跟政府其實希望鼓勵人工生殖我們政府也希望有一些補助所以我們的做法其實應該再進一步做調整"},{"start":12756.773,"end":12777.544,"text":"我們現在會努力去讓我們的醫療人員所能夠了解我們現在的規定然後願意來而且我們有鼓勵的措施主動出擊啊對啊 反正署長我不占用別的委員的時間主動出擊去處理這件事情不要把政府的美意打對責有有有 我們都有處理謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":12781.166,"end":12798.438,"text":"是 謝謝燕秀我想在這裡跟護睡署做一個結議希望就是因應少子化那這個人工生殖法你有一個比較具體的方式兩個禮拜提出來給我們委員會好不好 好 謝謝好 接著我們請陳一貞委員質詢謝謝主席 請那個彭主委 謝謝請彭主委"},{"start":12810.67,"end":12837.629,"text":"主委您好請問一下我們全國任何一家證券公司的分公司是不是都要做執行KYC如果對客戶來講應該這是我們金融消費者保護法規定的是要定期的更新客戶資料這個程序沒錯吧有這個規定那詢問客戶是不是詢問客戶是否是新聞上參與罷免民進黨立委王定宇的青年金這個是KYC嗎"},{"start":12838.73,"end":12860.236,"text":"這當然不會是我們金管會的我也看到這個新聞我也覺得這個詢問客戶是否參與罷免民進黨利益王定理這個是KYC嗎謝謝文給我們澄清的結果我們金管會不可能去做這件事情不可能嗎當然不可能但是我們查了一下相關的報導金管會並沒有做出任何的澄清啊你有看到這個新聞嗎這個營業人士說來來我把這個過程講一下這個有新聞嘛你有看到了齁"},{"start":12866.778,"end":12895.555,"text":"也有 議員也有出來開這個記者會喔說金管會查水表喔當然不可能 我再重申只是我們現在的從業人員常常把那個規定就是說金管會規定它是說短短七天內接到原大證券林森分公司許姓研究員兩通電話對方先以例行更新客戶個人資料為由進行詢問然後詢問那一位胡先生是不是新聞上參與罷免民進黨立委王定宇的青年金然後在追問以後"},{"start":12896.275,"end":12911.67,"text":"還表示營業員表示此為因應金管會要求進行的調查你們沒有做任何的澄清我們有太多太多的消息我們都要澄清的話其實這個大家就是"},{"start":12912.691,"end":12923.321,"text":"非常非常簡單的常識問題 金管會怎麼可能去規定這個事情我事實上對金管會的正式的澄清絕不可能我們一向覺得政府機關都是守法守紀一般來說不會做那種很奇怪的事情"},{"start":12931.989,"end":12950.331,"text":"近年來很多的機關都非常的所謂的中立機關、獨立機關都非常不中立、不獨立所以我們也產生懷疑理論上今晚會也不應該是這樣做啦因為你們還沒有澄清就讓人家覺得是不是一種默認啦當然不會那我意思就好像我們每天每天這麼多網路上的"},{"start":12951.312,"end":12974.3,"text":"網民講一些事情我們都要澄清但是那些有的是詐騙集團但是不確實有一個營業員這樣做我覺得假設這邊只涉到某家證券公司他應該自己來澄清這件事情你們也應該去了解一下吧他應該自己去釐清說你們的同仁有沒有很多事情就講說都是盡管會規定的你既然已經在那邊澄清了我也想請你給你一個禮拜調查一下結果要送過來"},{"start":12975.8,"end":12997.97,"text":"我相信你,我沒有不相信,我只是說你們都沒有做任何動作會讓外界誤以為這個就是你們在做這樣的任務那也調查一下嘛像你說的那個相關的公司也沒有出來澄清啊他也理論上應該自己站出來說句話不然現在整個這個氛圍這樣子大家都覺得有可能金管會或相關的都做這樣的事情"},{"start":12998.55,"end":13009.483,"text":"好 一個禮拜給我們報告好 謝謝我們來講那個詐騙 詐騙現在的確是很猖獗看不下去 你看114年今年的4月份就是上個月"},{"start":13011.845,"end":13024.151,"text":"財產的損失是七十六億五千一萬五千多片的詐騙數假投資四十億網路購物假買家都是一億一億假交友十三億假交友這個產業已經變成一個產業了而且我們看到那個"},{"start":13029.193,"end":13045.546,"text":"那個他的這個產值啊就是他詐騙金額都越來越高所以國人實在是受害很深啊這個很多人你看很多人也都不學好就裡面投入這個產業其他產業也很慘但是詐騙產業真正日常啊案件也一直提高那你看喔你們有提一個"},{"start":13046.667,"end":13061.436,"text":"金融帳戶預警的這個制度嘛對吧你沒有提這個制度出來嘛所以要聯手這個勸阻這個客戶把資金匯往疑似涉及詐騙的境內帳戶預計在今年五月底完成嘛五月底剩幾天了會完成嗎"},{"start":13062.267,"end":13073.456,"text":"我們已經完成了我們來看一下你們公布的市井帳戶我們看從110年第一季是4萬多戶在隔一年是7萬多戶112年變9萬6到113年是12萬6到了今年每一年一年看今年是15萬15萬個警示帳戶所以這警示帳戶隨著你們的這個"},{"start":13089.549,"end":13105.758,"text":"這個煮炸應該有一直加強啦對不對但是警示帳戶越來越多啦但是我們也看到了就是我們自從我們今年年初採取一系列措施以後警示帳戶的成長率已經快接近零成長率接近零嗎114年低劑15萬還是在成長但成長率已經比以前"},{"start":13111.534,"end":13120.906,"text":"有明顯下降我們是希望他趕快趨近一年所以現在第二季還沒關第一季十五萬第二季一季0.4成長率從原來的大概理論上這種帳戶應該是要下降從原來成長率2.3到0.4"},{"start":13130.018,"end":13138.543,"text":"我想這個部分我們一定很努力就是說我們做得不好我們覺得這個也是大家還要繼續努力嘛詐騙實在是太過猖獗大家都被詐騙過你們二月的時候有邀請各個銀行開會嘛有你訂一個改善機制對吧"},{"start":13146.427,"end":13164.395,"text":"有兩個監控的指標僅是戶比還有存款帳戶比僅是戶業新增率和同業平均業增率這兩個比例如果一旦從實超過100%就會被打入黑名單嘛對不對那現在已經實施三個月了吧成效好不好我們請局長跟我們說明一下"},{"start":13165.976,"end":13193.611,"text":"跟委員報告那個我們到目前為止我們有訂定這個指標對然後如果連續兩個月都超過100的話我們會正式發文那我們已經在上個禮拜有正式發文目前有三家金融好請問是哪些銀行哪三家銀行那我們知道但要公告公告以後大家才知道這些銀行是不可以不然這些銀行要注意這些銀行來的贓物而且會影響銀行的信用對吧我想我們會適時的時候再對因為我們現在還在你如果公告才有"},{"start":13194.371,"end":13217.143,"text":"賀祖的效果才有老百姓才知道說這銀行不好這銀行才會更努力的去打詐 阻詐這是未來的一定是這樣那請問是哪些銀行我也不知道說真的哪幾家沒有想這個沒辦法公告是嗎現在我覺得這部分我們還是先從這個控管機制我覺得在這時候當場公佈我覺得這部分我們還要再為什麼 你怕怎樣"},{"start":13219.044,"end":13243.076,"text":"保護哪些銀行我也不知道哪些銀行真的我可以再跟委員報告我想在這邊我們暫時先為什麼我們要保護這個不夠努力的銀行或者我們這樣講沒關係因為剛開始嘛2月嘛現在5月剛開始到5月那我們是不是後面可以建立一個制度就是說如果做得不好就是要公告嘛他才有警惕效果嘛銀行也才會更努力嘛"},{"start":13243.516,"end":13271.233,"text":"未來公告就是我們的武器啦但是因為我們制度實施很多時候呢我們希望我們的指標更穩定更可靠以後呢你公告銀行自然就會更努力啊他也不想上榜變成一個好像詐騙集團都特別favor他們的銀行或者他們特別有詐騙集團去那個對不對我們就是希望說對大眾有幫助一個月76億的詐騙金額啊沒有我想說這部分除了這個部分以外還有什麼措施你們還可以再做的 積極措施"},{"start":13271.553,"end":13292.094,"text":"其實我們很多就不能夠對外說明啦因為現在詐團也在看我們看你們做什麼 道高一尺 謀高一丈對 我們是謀高一尺 道高一丈但是我的意思是說因為我們有請金融機構我們要用科技打詐 精準打詐意思是說我們不會對外說我們怎麼做"},{"start":13293.035,"end":13307.354,"text":"因為炸團也是個產業剛剛委員講到實在是太誇張了他會知道我們怎麼做以後他也會因應這個我們理解我們也可以我們可以理解希望你們做得好但是如果做得不好的你給他公告也會有幫助那是絕對的當作未來的方向"},{"start":13309.376,"end":13317.4,"text":"這也是我們做這個指標很重要的目的啦希望做得好的我們也有獎勵做得不好大家也有勇氣因為從金融機構下手也是一個很大的幫助因為投資詐騙跟這個實在影響很大然後接著我在本期在3月31號有諮詢我們金管會的OIU的事情"},{"start":13329.346,"end":13347.519,"text":"結果有關這個因為OIU是最大客源是入客大陸限制來台所以客源少了一大塊這個部分那我也說過我們金門發展OIU的優勢有入客有優惠的這個稅收還有小三通現在是唯一兩岸間有大陸客可以來的地方那金管會有那時候給我一個報告就是說"},{"start":13350.021,"end":13367.251,"text":"金蘭的說法你們的答覆竟然是說如果未來縣市我們地方有提出相關發展方向的話你們會配合評估樂見高雄專區要做了吧高雄專區成功以後可以複製到其他城市喔但我覺得說我們就是因為相信金管會的專業"},{"start":13368.691,"end":13391.936,"text":"就是說因為地方政府是在比較沒這方面的能力就相信你們專業才是請你們幫我們提供出一個方法看有沒有什麼做法讓比如說金門這樣一個特殊的地方可以OIU可以做得更好或者是可以開始的OIU現在全國都做得不好那我們就說我們的那個地理的位置就請你們提出方法現在你們又給我回答說請建制政府提出發展方案這個好像有點倒過來"},{"start":13394.617,"end":13409.4,"text":"我們是請你們協助你們的專業我們可以做什麼我覺得真的很佩服委員在對金門鄉親的這些的關懷我的意思是說主要是因為我們這個專區的概念是說由地方政府說我願意提出什麼配套措施那我們"},{"start":13410.161,"end":13424.95,"text":"地方政府金融專業沒有櫃會的牆他們提的不是你們可以說我們需要配合什麼我們來做嗎我舉例他提供場地提供一些地方的比如說生活或租稅上面他們地方可以做的優惠"},{"start":13426.371,"end":13444.459,"text":"你們列舉出來我們可以來看地方政府來做哪些是你們主動提出來嘛因為地方政府不知道到底要怎麼做我們也沒有期待像什麼高雄一樣什麼15 16家什麼這個銀行進駐啦至少利用這個地利之便有入客到訪這個優勢怎麼樣來做啦我們樂於就是跟比如說"},{"start":13445.424,"end":13445.764,"text":"接著請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":13482.166,"end":13508.986,"text":"謝謝主席 我請我們金管會的彭主委好 請彭主委喂 彭主委好 辛苦了我本來今天要跟你談難得你推動的這個亞洲資產管理中心現在已經有35家金融機構表態願意進駐 這本來是好消息可是我今天要先跟你提一下就是到底"},{"start":13510.049,"end":13530.337,"text":"我們國內血汗責任額的金融機構是哪一些啦因為大概這幾個禮拜來就承接著我們從去年開始有的這個ETF的熱潮那我們就陸續接到金融機構"},{"start":13532.165,"end":13542.061,"text":"券商包括銀行那麼券商的營業員銀行的里莊們他們都有來投訴就是說竟然啊"},{"start":13543.274,"end":13569.177,"text":"我們的金融機構包括國營的喔給他們一個不合理的責任額的分配那這些責任額的分配那該券商銀行都是用這種人格侮辱威脅恐嚇經濟壓迫不公平對待甚至很多很奇怪的"},{"start":13570.219,"end":13594.973,"text":"言論方式來壓榨他們我舉幾個這種亂象這些亂象其實或多或少我想主委你應該有接到投訴比方說這個責任你做不到自己想辦法比方說要不然你就自掏腰包要不然你就這個環境不適合你你就離開吧"},{"start":13596.451,"end":13617.661,"text":"用這種威脅的方式甚至還直接券商還直接對這個營業人說我不相信你在IPO連十萬都賣不到都騙不到連十萬都騙不到那某一家今天"},{"start":13626.345,"end":13640.995,"text":"這個公營航空他也在場但是是他們的證券主管啦直接在談話的時候直接強調說要用話術去詐騙客戶天啊用話術詐騙客戶那就包括剛剛我講的連10萬IPO的時候你連10萬都騙不到嗎天啊"},{"start":13653.649,"end":13680.991,"text":"我先前在說薯條三兄弟是有牌的地下錢莊成幾何時我們國家的國營的券商銀行竟然成了有牌的詐騙集團要去詐騙投資人詐騙我們一般的百姓可以這樣子嗎 要"},{"start":13683.544,"end":13701.708,"text":"他的禮專銀行券商要他的音樂園去詐騙投資者無辜的民眾可以這樣子做嗎然後還亂象超多啦我隨便舉幾項齁還說這些主管講話的時候還說"},{"start":13708.7,"end":13733.872,"text":"你的裙子穿得比別人短結果你的責任跟別人一樣你覺得這樣公平嗎竟然講這樣子的話有的主管還直接對女性講說你是女性欸你是女人欸你要利用自己的優勢天啊"},{"start":13736.55,"end":13763.172,"text":"天啊這些都是實話我再沒有看到這些投訴沒看到他們提出的證據的時候實在不敢相信無法自信所以我相信王主委你或多或少理解到這一個部分所以我要請問你的就是說有沒有接獲就是我們金管組會有沒有接獲這個"},{"start":13765.7,"end":13787.64,"text":"券商、投信、銀行他們的營業人禮專這一些那有這種被壓迫的情況還有第二點那我們金管會專案精簡了沒有那這個專案精簡我覺得不能只針對投信、券商我看連銀行都要在內的原因是什麼呢"},{"start":13789.061,"end":13793.545,"text":"銀行因為要負責保管,銀行現在也要銷售投資型的保單,現在銀行也給他們的保管"},{"start":13808.413,"end":13828.101,"text":"除了禮專以後還包括他們的櫃員他們在櫃檯也都分配他們額度就對然後甚至有的主管直接挑明的說說你自行購買就是你自掏腰包"},{"start":13829.281,"end":13845.248,"text":"那這個就是付給公司的保護費 表明了這樣講喔說這個是付給公司的保護費 否則 KPI不達到 年終獎金一毛也拿不到"},{"start":13847.349,"end":13876.407,"text":"就是這樣子天啊激進恐嚇之能事啦所以這些亂象那個彭主委我不曉得您有沒有接獲這一些亂象的投訴還有你打算怎麼樣來整頓報告委員我們有接到投訴那就是因為在大概是這件事情的前後我們大概就我們棋局這邊有接到一些投訴的動作啦那當然"},{"start":13877.566,"end":13891.162,"text":"就像這個全經理也提出一些訴求啊我們當然也就採取了行動那這部分的話我們分兩部分跟委員簡單說明一下我先請那個政經局局長簡單跟你報告一下他們現在請眷商是怎麼做"},{"start":13894.546,"end":13917.686,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在已經叫建商全部去搜尋這個事項那搜尋回來我們再來看他們什麼方式來現在去搜尋資料那這個大概多久會有結果我想一兩個禮拜就會回來一兩個禮拜一個禮拜兩個禮拜你要講清楚好不好因為兩個禮拜他們就會回報回來那你一拿到結論"},{"start":13919.912,"end":13940.731,"text":"你除了通報彭主委也讓我們知道好不好讓我們財委會知道好不好那彭主委那個你有要求說你這其實也對啦你要求他們說先制定規範先制律這也對可是如果已經有這麼荒腔走板的言行出現啊"},{"start":13942.372,"end":13967.425,"text":"黃牆左板的要求出現了我覺得這不只是讓他們自律而已而且剛剛你有提到的這個全今年他們這個五大訴求我覺得這個五大訴求都蠻有道理的而且是我們應該積極去做到包括他提到的第五個訴求就是建立吹哨者的保護機制這一點也很重要否則他們金若寒蟬不太敢講"},{"start":13969.326,"end":13974.127,"text":"任何一個建設性的意見對希望市場更健全更好我們都會好好來演繹參考他們認為頭信回單機制應該揭露他們認為對違法違規的券商要從嚴處分限期改善這個都對啊要求他們內部規範這就是你提到的嘛內部規範先要求他們自律"},{"start":13994.952,"end":14018.988,"text":"然後他們要求說IPO的評分機制這個要有這個都正確的事情尤其最後這一點就是說我希望能做到這個吹哨者保護的機制好不好我想這些都很具體啦我們都可以來看看只要能夠改善市場剛才委員提到啦剛才那些情況如果是不合理的我想"},{"start":14020.182,"end":14035.569,"text":"我上次文匯提到說因為我們業務端他有很多的那個促進業務的做法但是也要合理當然合法是不是不用講了你看喔這些齁我舉你看嘛去年我諮詢就講了我說我們"},{"start":14036.409,"end":14065.829,"text":"銀行手續費收入是佔竟然佔他們的大宗那我們前五大還好這前五大都是民營銀行他們去拼賺這些手續費最高的一年四百一十幾億其他都兩三百億第五名的還有一百六十六億之高那當然這些手續的收入某個程度講這是他們的權利啦但是每年啊"},{"start":14066.891,"end":14071.382,"text":"加起來上千億的手續費我就講五年就好"},{"start":14071.96,"end":14082.685,"text":"五年以來金融商品的說明不足造成的爭議竟然高達1390件五年1390件讓他們每年可以收上千億兩千億的手續費那這些金融商品他們胡亂週一通就是剛剛講的騙的結果有爭議啦1390件五年總共罰五件啦"},{"start":14099.312,"end":14110.985,"text":"五件那總共罰五千六百萬那可以說是哇這個是九牛一毛啦九萬牛一毛啦"},{"start":14112.028,"end":14136.615,"text":"每年兩千多億啊五年一兆的手續費那有爭議的那麼多只罰五千六百萬天啊所以我最後那個主席不好意思齁我再一分鐘我是要跟那個彭主委強調一下其實我們要壯大台灣金融市場打造具有台灣特色的資產管理這個都對但是有一點"},{"start":14137.857,"end":14163.708,"text":"我一直覺得蠻矛盾就是我一年前講 講到現在我就說我們受險的資金餘額35兆裡面有高達70%有25兆拿去買國外的債券基金而這些國外的債券基金兩大風險一個匯率 一個戰爭結果兩個我們都碰到了匯率就是這一次美國這一次"},{"start":14164.508,"end":14192.51,"text":"那這台幣漲了一成他們的損失這麼重大他們受險要的損失就是全民保護的損失欸是這樣嘛第二個啊 戰爭題的也碰到了嘛俄國買的那一千三百多億就是碰到戰爭的風險所以我要你回去好好細思一下當我們希望打造台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心的時候至少"},{"start":14193.391,"end":14217.526,"text":"我們要一定程度的要在國內我們設建設公債引導我們這些受險資金回到台灣來壯大台灣這才對也就是說我們的錢至少相當一部分我們自己管這樣我們才有辦法去吸收國外的錢說你來給我管嘛不是這樣嗎如果我們70%的錢出去給別人管"},{"start":14218.226,"end":14246.487,"text":"然後我們說拜託大家錢來給我管這不成效那要找誰來給我們管找非洲的小國家嗎所以這一點我們要好好的細思一下也就是說美國這一次的關稅匯率這件事情是不是會影響到我們導引我們國內授權業的資金回台灣這個部分正反面好好去評估好不好"},{"start":14247.087,"end":14249.129,"text":"好 謝謝委員的意見 謝謝謝謝鳳女辛苦了 謝謝時間接著請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席 請彭主委好 請彭主委委員好"},{"start":14269.269,"end":14279.374,"text":"市主委我想今天很重要的一個我們在討論的案子是亞太理財中心在一百零四年推出的國際金融業務條例今天要修正那"},{"start":14280.931,"end":14303.252,"text":"內容當時的目標好像是要跟其他的國家來競爭甚至搶國外到台灣的人來台灣買保險那到今天為止已經整整十年所以我們要往下再延十年這十年來現在行政院又要打造台灣是亞太資產管理中心我們聽到這些名詞已經聽很久了"},{"start":14304.532,"end":14328.263,"text":"亞太理財中心現在是亞洲資產管理中心主委這10年我們就回頭來看看前面給了10年效益怎麼樣有沒有達到金管會當時設定的目標我想這個數字不會騙人我想過去OIU確實在尤其最近幾年那績效不好績效很差應該是說這10年來我們給了這麼多優惠好像也沒有什麼進展"},{"start":14332.072,"end":14352.771,"text":"但是我必須講說時空不一樣了就像我們最近所以未來還有10年這10年你有什麼目標跟想法很簡單我們原來預估要36家目前來的20家達成率55%人身保險的收入保費收入我們預估是30億我們只收到1.3億然後財產保險保費收入我們預估要6.7億結果收到了0"},{"start":14359.946,"end":14375.512,"text":"在保險的保惠收入20億好一點大概11億目標57.9也就是說這是10年的成績單實在不好看那現在就是彭竺瑞當年是過度樂觀那時空環境不同你覺得最大的問題出在哪裡"},{"start":14376.411,"end":14389.269,"text":"我想剛才其實很多委員也指教過了啦就比如說當時的目的當時希望用大陸客嘛對不對所以大陸客這十年就沒有啦那當然再來就是我們的商品沒有競爭力我覺得是很關鍵點"},{"start":14390.481,"end":14412.076,"text":"商品沒有競爭力,成本過高所以沒有人要來,是嗎?對,就是我們的商品其實還有很多的限制就像我們這次我們就請保險局就放寬了我們這個OIU的管理辦法裡面對商品設計,我們有新的商品如果你的商品沒有競爭力,沒有吸引力來這邊設的成本又很高,然後又沒有客人"},{"start":14412.856,"end":14438.103,"text":"那就不會有人來嘛這是不一樣這是我們的客人不會只瞄準一個地方是不能只有一個項目跟對象所以說我們這次就是是一個新的完全全新的方向而且我們這次的OIU不是單打獨鬥我們這次呢是要跟OBU跟OSU一起大家一起來變成亞洲的資產管理是的現在我就叫您定出您的目標未來"},{"start":14438.903,"end":14463.558,"text":"10年後我們再來看您今天所說的話看能不能做得到,您有沒有具體的設定的目標因為過去的基期很低啦,因為主要是我們成長會很高我覺得應該會成長很高,按照這個基期來看的話因為我們馬上會有新的產品出來,而且再加上我們新開放的一些業務好啦,10年前那個目標至少要完成之外再加一倍啦,這樣有沒有很難"},{"start":14464.383,"end":14485.73,"text":"不難所以這個就是比十年前的目標完成之外再加一倍至少這是你的底線這個我不做預期我只是說過去在這一塊裡面我們還是要做市場的嘗試我只是說成長而且能夠有顯著的成長是不難的如果亞洲資產管理公司我們其實都希望什麼亞太營運中心 亞洲什麼"},{"start":14486.63,"end":14511.336,"text":"其實台灣喊很久,但是我們自己的法規某個程度其實沒有國際化,沒有辦法跟其他的城市或其他的國家做充分的競爭這才是今天要修這個法的原因嗎?如果我們要變成國際化,尤其是金融自由化,我們必須要有相應的所謂的管理上面的調整"},{"start":14511.736,"end":14517.687,"text":"當然如果說我已經有注意到的話如果這些細節我們放寬的規定我們單單高雄專區我們就放寬了"},{"start":14518.931,"end":14547.416,"text":"所以我覺得台灣其實是有機會的但是我們其實尤其在香港它黑化了以後它現在其實我們應該把這個位置搶過來那現在大部分被新加坡搶走嘛那我們是不是把它搶回來確實確實我想這個是國人一致的方向啦因為我們希望讓我們的金融市場有更大的活動空間沒錯所以我希望主委你的目標要定出來這個法案修了之後十年期的目標至少要有這個宏大的願景嘛"},{"start":14548.296,"end":14563.702,"text":"這個願景就是接下來不管誰來當主委未來的十年大家一起努力的方向這個可能需要給我們立法院一個具體的數字好嗎好的第二個部分就是我們最近一直在討論終於看到金管會要把所謂的"},{"start":14564.802,"end":14581.499,"text":"融資公司將要公告在金融消費者保護法了,對吧?對,是的好,所以第一階段看起來只有14家有4大家之外的14家他們上市集團的下游4家上市集團公司,分科的子公司第二階段是銀行轉投資的13家公司,對"},{"start":14584.582,"end":14606.7,"text":"第三階段是有工會的小型其他融資公司15家所以總共大概44家差不多40家左右所以你覺得我們的融資註定公司只有44家嗎其實這是一個好問題因為什麼其實我想在台灣很難有人說得出台灣融資公司有幾家因為主要是這個邊界非常不明確很多是一般的公司但他可能只是做了"},{"start":14607.721,"end":14621.053,"text":"融資 但是加租賃的他其實本質上不是一家所謂融資公司所以我的意思是說台灣絕對不會只有這44家在做嘛這其他的問題在於說我們現在"},{"start":14623.916,"end":14649.038,"text":"對能管的先管這個我同意該管的先管而且大型的我們管得到的先管但是管不到的它不等於它不存在就像我們之前的虛擬資產業者一樣所以它都在只是我們要怎麼去看待它監察院在4月的調查報告說金管會現行只有準備管理部分業者對於其他從事相同業務相同風險甚至數量更為龐大的民間融資公司沒有納管計畫"},{"start":14651.079,"end":14665.693,"text":"糾正了金管會所以主委這個不是我們想不管就可以不管接下來是我的問題是金融保護法它有點限制不是就說好我們不是該管不管本來其實像這些它都在啊"},{"start":14666.894,"end":14685.64,"text":"這個由誰來管適當我想全世界管這個東西我想委員也做過研究我理解所以我們希望說有個進程你要先管這個我們也沒有意見先納管沒有的部分現在還是丟給經濟部各安去協商我們有其他的法律在處理希望說接下去還是一樣"},{"start":14686.92,"end":14714.418,"text":"包括台北市政府法務部統計的它的消費申訴像中租控股旗下的重信融資它歷年上都是不去參加協商也就是納了金保法能不能夠解決這些問題當然如果說按照我們的金保法裡面的規定它就被強迫了當然但金保法有一個很嚴重的問題它只有在12萬以下對業者才有去處理你這個要不要提高呢這跟委員報告"},{"start":14717.621,"end":14734.96,"text":"金保法還有這個特殊的簡便等同於法院判決的效力那原來比如說我們現在提到以前的專法他若不是這個他還沒有所以金保法是好的所以我沒有意見嘛我說先納管所以現在12萬你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":14736.953,"end":14757.301,"text":"你要不要再做這些調整這是你金管會可以做的事這是所以我們會按照時機的需求因為這畢竟是已經限縮了現在隨便一個年輕人可能都借了幾十萬十二萬真的太低了沒有他有分兩個不同的類型一個是投資一個不是投資所以不是投資只是單純借錢這種買個機車的十二萬其實都太少"},{"start":14762.543,"end":14790.819,"text":"我的意思是說主委你要納金保法我沒有意見先管能管的但是這個部分要檢討如果可以的話金保法要拉高第二個部分是我們現在包括洗錢防治法我上次已經說了我們已經把融資租賃放在洗錢防治的對象是的那接下來還有我們要納管的所謂的虛擬資產是在什麼業者還有現在可能正在成立工會的P2P業者他將來可能都是類"},{"start":14792.199,"end":14804.172,"text":"金融機構的金融行為所以金保法這兩個業者我們有沒有同有沒有要朝鄉管理的方案這個就剛才講說比如說講P2P好P2P是一個"},{"start":14805.393,"end":14828.136,"text":"如果它涉及到P2P正在進行正在存在它也存在將來也會有糾紛我想我們會按照融資公司實施的情況再來看看怎麼樣把它所用的這部分不是要等人家是要現在就做好預防第二個就是虛擬制裁業者他們開始做登記制了那他們的爭議有沒有要納入禁包法"},{"start":14828.809,"end":14845.888,"text":"現在沒有還沒有 你要不要將來把它納入呢現在我們會來在專法來處理這是另外一個問題如果他們都幾乎等同金融行為的話其實很不一樣我想Vespa裡面跟我們的金融服務是很大的不同我想這點要特別特別的強調"},{"start":14847.049,"end":14870.098,"text":"接下來可能都會有類似的問題所以要不要納入金保法我們會審慎來思考這個問題啦我希望給我一個方向跟目標跟我們打算怎麼樣看待他這些是一個態度問題我們現在把他納管了登錄了然後接下來呢接下來是你要很嚴格的管理但是發生糾紛了我不處理"},{"start":14870.758,"end":14897.077,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎只是他的性質跟我們的金融服務還是有點差有點不一樣所以可以我都沒有意見金管會希望你在一個月之內針對VASP業者針對P2P甚至將來的融資公司在金保法裡面的角度第二個金保法的所謂的強制力的12萬我覺得應該要有一些調整如果你今天要把它納管12萬對融資公司來說太低了"},{"start":14897.717,"end":14903.156,"text":"好嗎這我們會通盤來檢討這跟委員報告好一個月之內給我一個一分說明好謝謝"},{"start":14904.895,"end":14927.944,"text":"好 接著請鄭振權委員 鄭振權委員 鄭振權不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在邱志偉 邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在林楚英 林楚英 林楚英委員不在楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在蔡育瑜 蔡育瑜 蔡育瑜委員不在"},{"start":14928.664,"end":14957.768,"text":"今日的登記花園委員均與詢答完畢本日會議作成如下的決議說明跟詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會在一週內以書面答覆委員另外要求期限者從期鎖定三 委員林楚英廖先祥所提的書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關的部會以書面答覆"},{"start":14958.468,"end":14985.461,"text":"是國際金融業務條例部分條文修正草案等八案還有這個證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案等九案另則其繼續審查本日會議議程已進行完畢倘若有不在場的委員補題書面的一個質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理 散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}