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主席今天所與會的各位學者專家在場各位媒體記者先生女士朋友我想今天我們希望說這樣子的一個公聽會大家也邀請了學者也邀請了專家我們是希望說是針對這個我們的這個今天這個所謂彈劾案的這個憲法的相關的法理來進行討論不過剛才我整場聽下來比較像是一個政論節目那這個部分我比較感到遺憾"},{"start":33.079,"end":52.165,"text":"我想在我開始討論這個憲政問題之前,我首先跟大家一起齊文共賞。大家來看看這個畫面上,秀出的是這次我們立法院議案關係文書,由本院委員傅坤祺、羅志強、林佩祥、黃國昌等60人所提出來的這個說話。今天我們為什麼開這個公聽會,就是因為這篇齊文。"},{"start":53.985,"end":82.948,"text":"那我們來看這篇檄文他這裡面說簡單講他要彈劾賴清德總統他所掳列的大概這麼多大一篇掳列大概就是六個理由第一個理由指揮授意行政院長左榮泰濫編預算這個部分第一個指揮授意這個部分你們提出指控的你們要有負舉證責任這個哪裡他在用什麼方式指揮授意第二"},{"start":84.108,"end":106.588,"text":"編列預算是行政院專屬的權利依照憲法第59條由行政院編列預算不管他怎麼編編列預算就是行政院的權利至於他預算編得好或不好你同意或不同意那是立法院的權利立法院的審查依照憲法第63條立法院就審查你覺得他爛編你就刪除啊你覺得他爛編你就全部凍結啊"},{"start":108.462,"end":136.328,"text":"那你今天因為這個你今天把這個拿來當作一個彈劾那你要彈劾你再怎麼樣你也說預算是行政院長編的你也來對付行政院長啊結果你說用這個理由你來彈劾總統這個是這篇文章的第一期第二期這個說第二個理由他說因為造謠抹黑從來彈劾的理由都是看總統做什麼事而不是看那個人說什麼話"},{"start":138.342,"end":162.865,"text":"照謠抹黑一樣啊 你要舉證啊 他照了什麼謠 抹了什麼黑沒有 就這四個字然後再來用言論 意思說總統講什麼話 所以我們要來彈劾他這個是第二期 第三期利用司法迫害一級這個我們檢察官依照職權追訴犯罪法院他依照職權發現真實進行什麼依法審判"},{"start":164.376,"end":184.879,"text":"這個你說用司法迫害異己舉證啊 拿來說在講啊這個目前第四個這個發動大惡霸摧毀臺灣民主什麼時候人民行使依法行使選舉罷免創制 覆決結果要來彈劾總統這個邏輯我完全不懂"},{"start":185.885,"end":212.897,"text":"人民行使依法行使啊它是違法行使的罷免嗎不是依法行使選舉罷免創制複決你以此為理由來罷免總統第五放任台積電赴美投資各位台積電赴美投資所以要彈劾賴清德這個是不是這篇文章的第五期那為什麼鴻海去投資中國那也要來罷免賴清德好了"},{"start":214.715,"end":227.002,"text":"這個一個民間公司的投資行為你拿來當作罷免總統的理由這些都不值一審啦我剛講這些都不值一審真正關鍵的是我們今天希望討論的第六個理由"},{"start":227.947,"end":256.488,"text":"你們認為說行政院長以不附屬為由來針對這個才化法行政院長不附屬這才是今天大概是最重要的關鍵剛剛大家談的有50%集中在這個議題上面所以我要來談一談這個所謂的不附屬這個問題退一萬步講啦就算這個是理由那也是行政院長不附屬啊行政院長不附屬按照憲法總統就不能公佈啊"},{"start":257.928,"end":283.849,"text":"所以總統不但沒有違憲而且他是完全是合憲的啊那至於行政院長不附屬你說行政院長不附屬違不違憲我們現在才討論但就算他違憲你們也用憲法的手段來處理行政院長啊怎麼會來彈劾總統呢這個又是這篇文章的第六集那我們來談這個所謂的附屬權剛剛也有學者提到"},{"start":285.43,"end":309.692,"text":"當初中華民國憲法有關於這個我先看這邊很多政治學的教授還有我自己的老師都在這裡這個當初所謂政治學大學第一課打開David Easton的政治學第一課第一個圖這是input output第二個圖這是什麼這是權力分立三個權力check and balance行政 立法 司法三個權力它各有各的"},{"start":310.473,"end":335.448,"text":"我們看這每一個權力之間都有兩個箭頭一個是我制衡你的權力一個是你制衡我的權力三權分立美國的也是這樣日本的也是這樣中華民國比較特別五權但是我們在談中華民國的憲法設計他還是基本上在三權之間他還是彼此有互相制衡的權力這個是憲法制度這最基本的權力分立制度的原理那我國因為"},{"start":336.741,"end":355.783,"text":"原本最初當初的中華民國憲法本文由張君邁他所起草的中華民國憲法本文他其實整個是傾向內閣制的也就是剛剛大家所講的原本我們憲法所規定的行政院長附屬權原本是用來制衡總統的沒有錯當初設計憲法本文的時候"},{"start":356.65,"end":371.285,"text":"他是來制衡總統的他代表著內閣制很重要的一個精神這是當初我們中華民國憲法本文設計的時候但是蔣介石當總統他不甘願啊所以他用動員刊亂時期臨時條款把他整個變成總統制我們中華民國憲政體制上除了蔣經國當行政院長以外沒有內閣制過"},{"start":384.049,"end":403.816,"text":"當初原本附屬權是屬於是因為當初的行政院長必須經過立法院同意所以他具有強大的內閣制精神這是憲法本文但是我們在修憲的時候把這個行政院長"},{"start":405.322,"end":431.964,"text":"必須經立法院同意我們把它拿掉了拿掉了我們在這個哪一年修憲修憲的時候把這個行政院長任命行政院長必須經過立法院同意拿掉了使得我們憲法中修條文之後的內閣制精神整個降低了行政院長基本上變成總統任命所以因為他的權力來源來自總統所以行政院長沒有什麼制衡總統這回事的"},{"start":433.064,"end":457.384,"text":"所以如果附屬權理論上是制衡總統的話那時候附屬權就應該全部拿掉了但是我們留著我們不是全部保留喔我們再修憲一次當年為了這個你說第一個拒絕附屬的行政院長是左翁派嗎 不是第一個拒絕附屬的行政院長是郝柏春他當年針對蔣仲林的人事案他拒絕附屬"},{"start":459.44,"end":477.861,"text":"所以因為好柏村的拒絕附屬因此我們又進行修憲不是我們 是那時候國民黨主導的修憲又把這個針對人事案的附屬權拿掉部分針對人事案的附屬權把它拿掉就是因為好柏村拒絕附屬"},{"start":479.861,"end":503.389,"text":"拿掉但是他沒有把整個附屬權拿掉他其他的附屬法律案的附屬權他依然保留在憲法裡面這個是什麼這個是憲法有意的沉默他拿掉了人事同意人事的附屬權獨留法律案的附屬權表示這個附屬權是存在而且有價值有意義的在在徵修條文修憲之後的體制依然是重要的權利"},{"start":505.103,"end":526.888,"text":"所以我們今天爭論的意思就是說附屬權到底是一個義務就中華民國法律通過之後你就一定要附屬就一定要公佈這是一種看法這就是你們今天今天這個國民黨跟民眾黨的看法另外一個看法認為附屬權不是他是一個權利他是一個行政院長的權限所以他會規定在憲法裡面那"},{"start":531.432,"end":553.438,"text":"這個東西有爭議理論上那到底他可不可以不附屬理論上這樣子的憲政爭議應該由誰來做最後的判定他到底可不可以其實是憲法法院照體制走就是憲法法院剛大家都講說憲法法院才有終極判決的理由剛才大家這麼多人在那邊講說賴清德違憲 賴清德明顯違憲"},{"start":556.616,"end":582.733,"text":"那你們也沒有權利講賴清德違憲啊只有憲法法院可以說賴清德違憲但是我們中華民國這部體制經過七次修憲拼裝之後本來雖然不好騎但是也是一台滿好騎還是可以走的腳踏車結果有兩個惡棍一個叫國民黨一個叫民眾黨拿一根鐵棍從車輪插進去這腳踏車翻車了這根鐵棍是什麼就是憲法訴訟法癱瘓憲法法庭因為國民黨"},{"start":586.246,"end":610.921,"text":"民眾黨癱瘓的憲法法庭使得現在所有的這些憲政爭議你通通變成沒有得到最終終局解決的可能性剛才所有學者我看張其祿教授是我很好的朋友他講的很有道理啊他說現在的這個總統制這個是憲法制度是有問題的這樣子的設計他大概整篇都講我們憲法制度有很大的問題"},{"start":612.746,"end":636.727,"text":"憲法制度有很大的問題所以要罷免總統所以要彈劾總統這個是什麼邏輯因為我們的憲法制度設計有問題所以我們要來彈劾賴清德我在這裡講這麼多但是最重要是我們要回歸到最後憲政體制的設計在場都是學者大家也都是在教人子弟的"},{"start":637.865,"end":658.359,"text":"都是在教人子弟的有關於憲法這樣子相關的權限我剛剛所講的通通都是就是權力制衡check and balance裡面附屬權到底是不是一個行政權對立法權的一個制衡的權利也許憲政上有爭議但是終局應該是被你們癱瘓的憲法法庭以上"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}