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核能安全委員會主任委員陳明尊率同有關人員主席林昭吉委員已警報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二 處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算公務預算解凍解凍案五案"},{"start":1884.408,"end":1897.787,"text":"三 處理一四年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管公務預算解凍案八案四 處理一四年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案一案"},{"start":1899.68,"end":1913.745,"text":"討論事項 一 處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管公務預算解凍案一案二 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管公務預算解凍案一案"},{"start":1914.844,"end":1935.985,"text":"本次議程採綜合詢答有委員柯志恩等15人提出質詢均經專案研究院院長廖俊志、副院長莊美銀、核能安全委員會主任委員陳明珍及相關人員即席答覆說明另有委員林佩祥提出書面質詢決議一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1937.366,"end":1962.352,"text":"3.對委員執行要求提供相關資料後,未及答覆不問,請相關機關盡速與順便答覆4.1.4年度中央政府總預算有關中央研究院主管公務預算解凍案6案,核能安全委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案9案行政法人國家原子能科技研究院解凍案1案審查完畢均予以動之提報院會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1965.25,"end":1989.625,"text":"好 請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處好 沒有的話我們就議事錄確定那今天議程處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管預算公務預算解凍案33案那我們首先介紹在場委員郭玉琴委員陳秀寶委員"},{"start":1996.598,"end":2021.152,"text":"科智恩委員那我們現在介紹與會官員我們有教育部部長鄭義耀部長我們教育部政務次長張料萬堅次長那我們也謝謝非常多教育部的同仁共同列席那我們也謝謝這個高雄市政府副市長羅達森副市長"},{"start":2023.964,"end":2034.055,"text":"謝謝讓我們高雄市政府經濟發展局副局長 林廖嘉鴻副局長行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員黃子涵專委 謝謝"},{"start":2039.77,"end":2050.045,"text":"好那我們現在處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍書面報告案計22案請宣讀"},{"start":2055.089,"end":2080.496,"text":"一交易部函為國家運動科學中心一四年度總預算決議減送決議一總支出預算凍結兩百萬元書面報告請查詐案二交易部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議五十八凍結預算凍結書面報告請查詐案三交易部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議六十"},{"start":2081.816,"end":2108.096,"text":"預算凍結書面報告請查詐案四 教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議七十預算凍結書面報告請查詐案五 教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議七十五預算凍結書面報告請查詐案六 教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送體育署新增決議一八五"},{"start":2109.117,"end":2124.329,"text":"預算凍結書面報告請查詐案7.交易部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議1.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案8.交易部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議2.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2130.867,"end":2142.293,"text":"9 交易部函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議3 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案10 交易部函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議4 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2147.276,"end":2158.326,"text":"11 交易部函 為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議6 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案12 交易部函 為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議7 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案13 交易部函 為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議8"},{"start":2168.596,"end":2192.226,"text":"預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十四 交易部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議九預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十五 交易部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十六 交易部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十一"},{"start":2193.246,"end":2212.813,"text":"預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十七 教育部函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部決議十二 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十八 教育部函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國民及學前教育署決議一 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十九"},{"start":2213.533,"end":2238.206,"text":"教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送體育署決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送體育署決議二預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十一教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送青年發展署決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十二"},{"start":2238.806,"end":2255.212,"text":"教育部函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國家教育研究院決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案 宣讀完畢好 謝謝那請問在場委員對於這二十二案解凍書面報告案有沒有問題"},{"start":2258.713,"end":2280.53,"text":"那我想這個相關的書面報告的案件我們在上個會期審理的過程中其實我們教文委員會不分黨派都非常支持教育部的相關的計畫跟做法唯有一億的部分我們就有部分的這個解凍有這個凍結的案件那我們也看到教育部有花時間"},{"start":2281.391,"end":2296.337,"text":"也做了相關的回覆與整理那我們剛剛宣讀完畢以後我們的委員也都沒有問題那我想我們這22案就均准以被查提報院會那我們現在請教育部正部長進行報告時間8分鐘主席各位委員女士先生大家早安大家好"},{"start":2309.329,"end":2335.609,"text":"應要今日應邀列席貴委員會處理及審查依適年度本部主管公務預算及行政法人預算解凍案提出解凍報告自為感謝本部主管經大院審議凍結預算共33案包含提出書面報告22案提出專案報告11案詳細報告資料經已依決議函送大院"},{"start":2336.874,"end":2340.108,"text":"警舊專案報告之辦理情形重點說明如下"},{"start":2341.377,"end":2364.348,"text":"第一有關代言決議凍結本部經常支出之業務費預算25%一案本部推動中小學數位學習等各項重大教育政策經本一尊爵原則施用經費以產出超過1萬支教學影片與3萬本電子書吸引超過110萬人是參與計時教育試探活動持續辦理"},{"start":2370.593,"end":2375.06,"text":"141所大學評鑑及教學品質改善等務使計畫如實達成預期目標"},{"start":2379.008,"end":2402.664,"text":"二 有關大院決議凍結本部一般行政之業務會預算28%議案114年3月21日修正公布之財政收支劃分法中央與地方財政資源月經修正調整本部配合行政院規劃盤點中央與地方事權分配事實檢討調降補助比例或評估"},{"start":2405.848,"end":2411.018,"text":"或由評估地方自行負擔為原則等持續妥善配置預算資源"},{"start":2412.81,"end":2438.541,"text":"第三有關大院決議凍結本部一般行政向下推展一般教育及編印文教書刊預算20%一案依據地方制度法學校午餐業務屬地方自治項目相關人力配置午餐收費等須尊重地方政府因地制宜做法另因應財政收支劃分法修正中央與地方"},{"start":2439.91,"end":2448.767,"text":"財政資源已有所調整本部將持續與地方政府協調以達成共識其次有關大院決議凍結本部國家重點領域效績"},{"start":2452.389,"end":2476.198,"text":"沿郊沿區先導計畫預算三千萬元一案本項公共建設計畫經本部與高雄市政府國立清華大學國立陽明交通大學會談後於一一四年四月十六日再報行政院審議可依國家發展委員會五月十六日含糊意見進行修正作業第五有關答應決議凍結本部"},{"start":2479.981,"end":2508.32,"text":"體育署加強學校教育活動及教學發展預算兩千萬元一案持續完善教師輔導管教措施禁止校園體罰或霸凌事件並嚴格篩選以杜絕不適任教師等進入校園第六有關大院決議凍結本部體育署一般行政向下基本行政工作維持之業務費預算五百萬元一案已要求迷你足球"},{"start":2510.203,"end":2520.301,"text":"協會繳回補助款並停止補助未來將強化實地訪查以補助規範確保教育體育行政透明以補助經費應用合規"},{"start":2523.271,"end":2547.798,"text":"避免再次發生財務爭議第七有關代言決議凍結本部青年發展署經常支出之獎助獎補助費預算七千萬元一案依據促進青年公共參與以補助作業要點以補助540組青年自主團隊志工行動將加強查核及宣導受輔助"},{"start":2549.578,"end":2569.538,"text":"補助單位應遵守行政中立原則確保補助計畫符合公平公正公開原則8有關代驗決議凍結本部青年署青年發展工作預算1000萬元一案青年百億海外研夢計畫於14年1月推動提供超過600名"},{"start":2571.806,"end":2594.582,"text":"交流名額強化青年全球行動利益國際視野有關大院決議凍結本部所屬國家圖書館經常支出之業務費預算30%一案持續透過各項基本行政支出確保營運不中斷令博碩士論文等系統累計超過數億人次使用為全國學術"},{"start":2595.703,"end":2611.094,"text":"以教育研究提供穩定資源有關大宴結議凍結本部所屬國立公共資訊圖書館經常支出之業務費預算30%議案持續充實實體電子館長資源數位介業證以線上資源使用人次持續成長並舉辦大量閱讀活動以講座廣受民眾參與"},{"start":2626.377,"end":2652.722,"text":"第十一 有關代驗決議凍結本部所屬國家教育研究院經常支出之業務費預算30%議案執行超過85項研究計畫建置教育資源資料庫並培育超過5萬人次教育領導人才後職國家教育實力以上代驗所作決議凍結之預算僅為本部主管辦理各計畫項目之必要經費"},{"start":2654.002,"end":2680.674,"text":"且本部及所屬業務會動結數約13.5億元坦仁競速結動將有助推動教育政策及維持基本行政事務工作之執行懇請各位委員鼎力支持同意全部結動是本部各項教育事務得以順利推展年度施政目標得以有效達成最後"},{"start":2681.789,"end":2686.895,"text":"再次感謝各位也敬祝各位健康平安謝謝好 謝謝鄭部長口頭報告"},{"start":2692.455,"end":2715.796,"text":"那我們剛才的案子雖然我們書面報告案計22案有通過那提報院會那我想在場也可能還是會有委員待會提這個詢答的時候也可能會提出那我相信有這樣的交流大家對於相關的專案也可以更加的了解那我們現在進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘"},{"start":2716.997,"end":2746.337,"text":"列席委员咨询时间为4分钟发言登记截止时间为上午10点30分委员如有临时提案请于上午10点30分前提出并于本会委员万美玲委员咨询结束后进行解冻专案报告以及临时提案处理处理提案时若提案委员及联署委员均不在场原例不予处理首先请发言登记第一位柯志恩委员咨询"},{"start":2747.718,"end":2747.738,"text":"請鄭部長備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":2761.26,"end":2765.762,"text":"委員長部長好我們來看看這個解凍案在你的書面報告第十六案各項教育推廣我們是凍結了一千萬那這個項目可以說是包羅萬象涉及國際跟兩岸的交流那我想部長在五月中的時候對於這個兩岸的交流你的說法是不鼓勵前往道路交流甚至是禁止反對"},{"start":2783.831,"end":2784.972,"text":"教育交流活動基本上依法我是"},{"start":2804.741,"end":2819.02,"text":"不能反對的但是我也必須要講為什麼我不支持不贊成不鼓勵主要就是因為來自於陸委會已經在去年就頒布兩岸交流是一個陳設警戒的一個狀態"},{"start":2820.221,"end":2829.205,"text":"基於教育部我們要維護我們老師跟學生因為他的風險是增加的所以我才會表達說我們不鼓勵我們就來看看風險因為也有很多大學教授他不曉得教育部的底線在哪裡他甚至很怕誤踩地雷所以讓他們的補助款因為被扣除所以我們當然要在這個時候就要來問一下教育部的態度到底是如何其實我說實在的部長以前杜正勝部長大家都認為他很綠"},{"start":2848.294,"end":2875.9,"text":"可是呢他其实也没有在任何的言语公开谈话当中去禁止两岸的交流那现在情势当然不一样所以我真的还是要问一下部长你们现在有国际级两岸教育司如果部长不鼓励不乐见甚至要禁止的话我说实在的你真的是可以把两岸教育司这样名字好好改一下甚至对于两岸教育科的这部分思考一下还没有存留的价值因为目前为止已经是到了这样子的阶段"},{"start":2876.48,"end":2900.275,"text":"然后呢我还是要问一下啊部长之前因为在中山大学就是因为做的还不错部长你了解吗你们中山大学里面有45个姐妹学校但是呢有27个学校是跟中国大陆而且你所俗称的国防七子其中当中有三所北京理工北京航空还有哈尔滨工都是跟你们的中山大学是有姐妹校的"},{"start":2901.616,"end":2924.91,"text":"那部长我就想说了这也不是最近才发生从你当校长的时候呢你有觉得你们中山的这个关键技术有被窃取或者你觉得学生的权益跟彼此互相交流你觉得这些科研结果有因为这样子或甚至是你跟对岸地铁界面上有被统战的这样的疑虑吗你在当校长的时候你有这样的疑虑过吗"},{"start":2925.81,"end":2926.371,"text":"謝謝委員我想委員剛才也特別提到兩岸的關係確實"},{"start":2955.67,"end":2975.338,"text":"沒有這樣一個兩岸那麼緊張所以這個交流我們是當然是支持的還是支持啊沒有反對但是因為現在兩岸的一個情勢真的不同好那你是國防七子在你們中山大學放在這個地方你目前為止你認為這三個學校就你的立場來看的話你覺得還是需要保留嗎"},{"start":2976.328,"end":2983.294,"text":"我們當然在已經被禁止了而且我再問一下這個國防七子七所大學是誰選的是誰選的剛剛說有疑慮的是誰選的是大學裡面主管大學的教育部所選的還是陸委會還是國安高層這七間學校是誰選的有徵詢過你教育部長的意見嗎你還是高教出身有徵詢過大學校長的意見嗎"},{"start":3000.643,"end":3004.028,"text":"跟我們報告因為兩岸確實關係不妙沒有啦我說這七間學校誰選的啦我要跟我們報告我們很清楚我們許多的科技產業我們的好啦那這七間學校誰選的啦部長我下面還有很多問題這七間學校誰選的"},{"start":3013.885,"end":3026.948,"text":"跟委員報告是我選的你所選的然後你的這些都還是你中山大學其中有三個都是你中山大學的我也非常清楚因為兩岸的關係不一樣所以你認為在你當校長的時候你不認為這三間學校有任何統戰的可能中山大學學校目前為止還是愛高雄愛台灣有任何機會嗎那個時候還存留到現在你怎麼變成教育部長之後你就認為這三間學校跟你們弟姐姊妹學校裡面就有問題呢這個邏輯上很奇怪啊我還是跟委員報告兩岸的情勢不一樣了"},{"start":3042.751,"end":3060.42,"text":"所以這些學校你可以請中央大學把它撤下來了是不是還是姐妹交流可以但是當姐妹校可以 交流就不可以你給我們一個底線這是台大校長說的跟我們報告我們的交流就是基本上在學術上的交流但是只要不涉及我們影響我們的這個科技產業跟產業上的一些喜多的一些"},{"start":3065.583,"end":3093.572,"text":"这部长我们两个在这边已经耗了很多时间这台大校长所提到的大家都不晓得侯先生在哪里我介绍非常多大学校长的成绩共同论文发表可不可以技术合作可不可以如果我们在海外的会议当中有跟对岸的学者碰面可不可以师生互放可不可以有疑虑的大学可否一次公布还有很重要可不可以要求大学校长共同来讨论还有呢你说国家关键技术可能外流那你说国防妻子可能要讨论"},{"start":3094.372,"end":3109.428,"text":"北大 清大還有所謂的復旦其他學校交流有沒有這樣的風險疑似講清楚部長我不想花時間在這個地方請你把這個問題跟校長好好的溝通清楚可以嗎我們確實事實上北大 清大我們並沒有"},{"start":3110.469,"end":3123.195,"text":"這個反對交流我們只是希望在交流的過程機敏的包括我們產業的一些喜多的一些因為界限很難就像你當鄭英耀校長的時候你認為這三個學校沒有問題當你當鄭英耀部長的時候他就會被配為你的這個部分時空真的不一樣兩岸現在情勢跟我擔任校長的那一個時候是不一樣的兩岸的一個交流"},{"start":3137.102,"end":3141.164,"text":"我覺得兩岸的教育有什麼不一樣有些時候是因為為了某些的目的或什麼我同意你要很謹慎但是呢我還是強調這是大學校長所整理出來的請部長好好的為大學校長來做示意好不好好本來就是啊而且你看520總統演說是要收入生請問過去一年大家當成效如何"},{"start":3161.812,"end":3189.353,"text":"有吗这一年来陆生的成长目前我们一直保留开放态度但是对方不过来对这就是因为两岸之间连我们认为比较单纯的学术交流都被划上一些有政治性的考量其实没有信任就没有这部分我刚刚所提到校长所关切的问题请部长好好的回应否则会让很多校长很怕因为这样子删了他们的补助款这就很不好了接下来我们再来问一下"},{"start":3190.214,"end":3206.269,"text":"我們一般性的補助款影響學校還有影響對學生的照顧部長你有掌握全國各縣市因為一般性補助款被刪減完之後所造成的一個影響嗎窮孩子不能窮孩子不能苦孩子這不是口號部長有充分的了解嗎"},{"start":3207.697,"end":3220.525,"text":"我想這一個我的對教育因為委員跟我都一樣長期都是教育相關的專業我們也對小孩子的台灣沒有天然資源我們有的就是完全沒有問題所以我才說你對22個縣市因為這樣子我們對這一個不同縣市裡面的財政我們業務單位不管在體育署或者國教署都有充分掌握"},{"start":3230.652,"end":3236.936,"text":"我們也希望能夠給予一些較經費資源比較對 部長我不想在這個時候因為藍綠已經對於這個到底是誰造成這樣的結果反正都有不同的看法立足點都不一樣我也不想陷入這個到處這個什麼總預算被砍然後造成這些影響我只告訴部長一般性普算跟學生是非常的有關係的特別是很多縣市"},{"start":3255.209,"end":3283.413,"text":"对于低收入中低收入还有身障学生安全设备还有包括中央政府所配合支出的新设幼稚园偏乡双语实现都受到很大的影响我说实在的我也不晓得组织处审计教育部的预算的时候为什么会做成这样的一个决议在我们认为非常重要的时候他却把这个部分迫使地方政府必须要做这样的一个处理真的这个是对我们来说是一个非常非常"},{"start":3284.053,"end":3313.402,"text":"可惡的 當財務法通過的時候我們事實上委員現在所列的就是我們在因為我們知道學生跟學生權益有關的跟經濟弱勢有關的或者特殊這個學生這不能刪啊我們都沒有刪我們也沒有刪了我們也沒有刪了 百分之百按照原來的去補助只有這一些特殊狀況包含學位我們都完全按照當然要保護啊 這是學校的命脈基礎啊所以我們目前的做法跟委員所提的是一致的"},{"start":3313.942,"end":3341.262,"text":"我們只有那些 歸屬我們這些優先順序的我們才配合 因為在六三六議裡面我們不曉得我告訴你六三六議當中呢我覺得省局部在特別預算的時候真的是我只告訴你這些東西都是非常重要的非常重要 我們在交入法委員會裡面也完全是力保這樣的一個措施感謝委員提醒 但是委員的想法跟我們目前所做是一致的"},{"start":3341.442,"end":3356.931,"text":"我只希望這些預算都不要因為這些因素而受到非常大的影響預算有很多甚至中央預算我們還可以增電我們還可以追加不應該是用這個部分裡面框住罪的部分裡面然後讓我們這些小孩子受到一個很大的影響這是本席要不斷的補充的"},{"start":3357.631,"end":3372.647,"text":"我时间非常有限我最后来问一个运动的部分好不好来来来我们再问一个非常重要的一个运动的部分因为我们体育署动机了两千万但是我还是要强调你看告诉我们说要拼热奥运是亚运选手来当为教练但是呢部长"},{"start":3373.388,"end":3378.472,"text":"署長經費越編越少而且重要的是預算的質詢率非常差都沒有達到50%連112年我們所編的跟決算來說的話質詢率只有46.46而且最重要的是為了經費我們中央到時候都告訴說我們要給這些榮耀之後幫我們國家爭光彩的這些的運動學所當他們轉為運動教練的時候我們就用約聘的方法"},{"start":3398.405,"end":3414.171,"text":"中央不應該帶頭用冤聘的方法任何人怎麼可能而且很多機會很好的人比一些地方我知道有很多地方政府像地方政府他們為了要給這些選手他們用專聘的方法可是有非常多是用約聘中央帶頭來做這怎麼說任何一個運動選手當然不會願意你要發展運動技術怎麼可以如此還是縣市的計劃型的教練"},{"start":3426.803,"end":3432.186,"text":"然後呢 而且我告訴你全部啊 我說運動教練啊 我告訴你欸 署長我都還沒有再講 你們這邊的計畫裡面 你看110人 我先舉個例子來 署長先跟我講你們國家運動訓練中心推動精英計畫你們編列了奧運跟亞運選手退役後的教練工作計畫是7800元你的決算數 你們執行率不高 而且你們教育部告訴我 等一下我還要講"},{"start":3454.558,"end":3470.565,"text":"來我告訴你你們這一步告訴我說奧運跟亞運選手要領選100名肌肉運動選手事實上是每四年才用到這些每四年100你們寫法讓我們以為每一年有100包委員是奧運年70位亞運年30位你們四年才培訓100個"},{"start":3472.926,"end":3495.895,"text":"因為很多的很多的教練他還是當選手所以他保有那個資格但是他在幾年後真正退役了之後才會開始所以你是告訴我四年之後來說所以我還是要保持這個彈性我懂但是你們寫的寫法我真的覺得你們是順便這是我們承受非常多運動我們很多的運動教練都要跟我們來反應最重要一句話"},{"start":3497.035,"end":3525.289,"text":"榮耀之後你要給人家一個非常好的生活保障所以呢你成立之後呢我們還是很希望能夠增加我強調正式專業的運動教練所以呢不是用這個方法往前面我們前面的部分所以說是正式的運動教練包委員現在我們在國立的學校我們都有聘任但是問題是現在縣市的政府願不願意把員人四處來聘任現在主要聘任第一的是在縣市政府的部分"},{"start":3525.469,"end":3532.377,"text":"那你教育部完全把他甩過給縣市政府縣市政府還有經費上的問題啊縣市政府不願意的話這部分不是我們中央可以去主導所以你縣市政府不願意的話我們中央就沒有我們還是有去給予補助大家從計畫型先試行然後鼓勵他希望能轉"},{"start":3544.87,"end":3573.29,"text":"署長如果是這樣子的話一切都是經費給縣市政府然後我們就說這是縣市政府的責任但是我告訴你署長中央還是有這樣否則我們要體育署幹嘛拿到錢給縣市政府縣市政府不願去做這聘任我們就責任就有了嗎我們會努力謝謝好不好請在這邊這都是很多運動專利跟我們持足反應的這東西是非常重要的好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝柯志恩委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來有請郭玉琴委員質詢"},{"start":3579.673,"end":3581.615,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請部長有請鄭部長備質詢 謝謝委員好"},{"start":3591.052,"end":3618.095,"text":"部長早安今天還是要來討論一下這個校園跟性品相關的一些議題喔那我想從之前這個成大成大的檢進教授2007年他就涉入多起的這個性品的一個事件喔那當時學校其實老師都知道但沒有依照程序來做這樣子的一個性品的一個程序的一個處理案發16年之後到了2023年才接獲檢舉那就是我們的監察院也提出了一些糾正喔"},{"start":3618.835,"end":3631.502,"text":"那成大才對這位所謂的簡信的郎師做出停職三年的處置那當然也要求教育部持續來監督成大檢討改進應該教育部知道這件事情對不對"},{"start":3632.571,"end":3659.908,"text":"好那接下來就是台大宿舍輔導員的性騷的一個事件喔那我想我來還原一下這件事情是從2022年的6月開始一直到10月中中這個一直在進行事喔那這一位女學生呢其實她是在2022年的9月向台大來提出這樣子的一個申訴希望台大來進行介入調查那她同時也訴諸所謂的這個法律的行動喔那麼由社工"},{"start":3660.408,"end":3684.294,"text":"以及老師的陪同到警方這邊來報警那在外部的部分呢也有在進行調查但是我們看到校方在2022年的4月份回應了這位學生說性騷是不成立的他說性騷不成立喔那當然學生當然就遞交了這個身負同時遞交身負之後學校再次的回應身負無理由"},{"start":3685.629,"end":3709.382,"text":"那我想這個台大的傲慢已經不是一次兩次了一直到後來其實監察委員他也說了這個整個所有的調查結果台大沒有承擔這個保護學生的一個責任那要來糾正這個台大要來改善學生再次重新申請調查但最後台大表示不再受理調查已經完畢"},{"start":3710.322,"end":3735.93,"text":"但是這位學生花了這麼久的一段時間到最後是用台大他怎麼樣來回應呢他說台大貿然如果將這位輔導員停職恐違反勞基法的疑慮不符合重啟的一個這樣子的一個法定的程序所以他不重啟調查那只是擔心說這位宿舍輔導員他的行為有一些預舉所以"},{"start":3736.946,"end":3760.295,"text":"建議要糾正就這樣而已喔就這樣輕輕放下而已喔好結論是這位宿舍的輔導員他只是從這個宿舍調離到另外一個宿舍但是這位女學生呢連外部跟遭跟所謂的強制都已經是確定的這是警方的這個目前的調查的結果但問題是台大是用這樣子的"},{"start":3761.495,"end":3772.225,"text":"這樣子的一個誇張的一個方式來對待這位女學生這位女學生目前是學業中斷身心受挫那接著下來又發生了四月份"},{"start":3773.858,"end":3796.08,"text":"葉秉成次長他在個人的臉書還有在其他的平台包含台大的這個所謂的交流網上面他PO出了不是一篇而是兩篇那麼他在平台上大家都知道他是一位具有高聲量的這樣子的一個應該是說臉書的擁有者那有30萬人在追蹤"},{"start":3797.642,"end":3827.022,"text":"她無意或有意之間那麼間接或直接之間透露了這位女學生的個人的資訊讓這位女同學深受極大的身心的創傷來向民進黨所有教文委員會的委員來求助我們在4月25號跟教育部提醒了第一次在5月2號跟教育部再進行了一次但後來教育部回應給我們的是這是屬於葉子她個人的行為"},{"start":3828.362,"end":3854.448,"text":"那葉刺的解釋是他出於關心但這過度的關心引起了所有在現場的效應包含上個禮拜他在中央大學的演講有學生直接質問他到底要不要撤文這中間經過了一個多月的時間我們要求他撤文他沒有撤我們要求他道歉他也沒有道歉好接下來他現在請假要來接受調查我現在想要問的是"},{"start":3855.428,"end":3872.138,"text":"為了要維護學生權益發聲這是我們教育部的責任但是這件事情非同小可難道我們教育部只能用大學自主這樣子的一個理由來回應台大這麼傲慢的態度嗎接下來台大的事情怎麼處理謝謝委員關心 確實我們對這個受害的同學是相當"},{"start":3881.752,"end":3884.634,"text":"部長現在怎麼處理台大這個部分他們要不要重啟調查"},{"start":3900.282,"end":3923.248,"text":"我們現在教育部的性評會也有組成調查小組整個從頭檢視台大的所有的處理過程那當然我也必須要跟委員報告確實台大身為一個台灣的一個這一個大學的一個標竿的一個引領的一個大學他沒有在一個校園的一個行政"},{"start":3924.148,"end":3948.236,"text":"治理校務的治理跟行政的一個品質裡面怎麼樣去真正關照到學生的一個受教權跟相關的權益所以基於教育部我們的立場台大一定要認真來檢討改善我想包含對學生的心理的支持我們期待這個認真的改善對於這件事情台大的處理的態度是不是應該要重新的被檢視甚至要重新的被檢討"},{"start":3949.229,"end":3972.592,"text":"我完全同意這個委員的一個這一個看法好那我們就看著教育部怎麼做接著下來教育部會怎麼做那第二個問題是因為業次他是處理所謂的高教的業務那我想高教的業務其實是非常繁重的到目前為止因為他要請假一個月這一個月當中我們的高教業務銜接有沒有問題會不會有任何的空窗"},{"start":3973.749,"end":3986.72,"text":"跟我們報告我當時希望他因為姓評會已經組成調查小組他理當為了讓調查能夠公正公開以能夠讓社會大眾知道教育部在這個的態度"},{"start":3989.282,"end":4007.807,"text":"內部在業務上也都做了一些分工做了一些調皮所以不會有任何空窗的狀況出現?不會有空窗 其實不會那另外最後我想要請教的是如果這個調查的結果出現我們的業次長的確也違反了所謂的性平法當中的一些規定請問教育部會不會護短?"},{"start":4009.895,"end":4031.448,"text":"我想有關政務官的一個任務我會跟院長來做這個詳細的這個整個性平處理的一個決議報告好那也就是不護短對不對是好那接下來第二個問題我想問的因為現今其實在這個學校的第一次現場我們介紹到很多很多校方老師對我們的求救的一個訊號他們覺得目前他們的處境"},{"start":4033.669,"end":4061.122,"text":"其實跟青獅之間的關係也面臨了極大的一個挑戰他們很擔心一句話一個處置就會被很多的家長可能放大來做檢視甚至會在很多的平台或者是在LINE的群組當中這位老師可能會被所謂的公審甚至還會被提告那我想這個是在第一現場我們面臨到了許多的老師對我們發出的一個求救的訊號"},{"start":4062.182,"end":4076.418,"text":"那麼當然之前某大安區的一個國小4月28號有一位老師他墜樓那當然這間學校的爭議還不只如此現在連同代理老師甄選的一個制度"},{"start":4077.719,"end":4092.806,"text":"據說也有家長要介入那其實這個關係是非常的扭曲喔那我想要請教這個部長的是針對教師因為正常的教學或者是管教如果受到所謂的家長過度的介入甚至濫訴的一個狀況我們有沒有一個統計的數據這個部分是不是真的有比例上升的情況那第二個問題是"},{"start":4100.789,"end":4106.29,"text":"教育部怎麼樣給實質在一線的教學的老師我們實質上給他精神上資源上的一個資源讓他能夠在心理的支持還有行政的資源作為保障老師他在第一教學現場因為這些老師他不是只有熱忱他也不是不願意付出他的熱忱他也不是不願意他的創新可是現在他步步為營啊深怕剛剛我講的一句話"},{"start":4125.894,"end":4139.943,"text":"可能就惹怒了很多的家長一句話一個動作可能真的就會讓很多的家長會去介入甚至有濫訴的一個狀況我們有沒有什麼樣的行政資源來支持這一些的老師他們在學校面臨的一個現狀"},{"start":4142.004,"end":4159.231,"text":"謝謝委員關心老師的一個確實我也跟委員報告我去年上來我就已經發現我們因為隨著少子化家長對小孩子的一個教育這個我們都懂每個孩子都是關注嘛但是也因為這樣造成校安事件"},{"start":4160.752,"end":4182.174,"text":"這一個相對的數量就多了因為有許多的彼此之間的信任度不夠所以我們現在從國教署我也特別說台灣這些人才培育我們在許多的國際評比都是名列前三名最差不會超過第五名也就是說我們人才培育是好的這主要是我們中小學老師的一些貢獻"},{"start":4183.235,"end":4201.378,"text":"那我們應該對我也提醒說我們除了鼓勵家長跟青獅的一個合作裡面對老師有更多的信任我們也希望怎麼樣把中小學老師那麼好的一個教學能夠在許多的網路平台包括許多的教學青獅的座談分享"},{"start":4202.199,"end":4228.038,"text":"教師怎麼樣這些好的老師怎麼樣我們都知道其實孩子的行為跟價值觀第一個第一站其實應該是家庭教育但是有很多的家庭教育當中其實那個是第一的現場但在第一現場失衡失靈的一個狀況到了第二現場其實就是老師但老師要承受了很大的一個壓力的同時我們怎麼給他一個行政資源上的"},{"start":4229.098,"end":4248.228,"text":"這個支持或者是我們在整個所有的心理上的支持甚至法律上的支持讓他不要孤單一個人在面對所謂的這個親師之間的關係的一個緊張謝謝委員提醒事實上那是都一直是我們現在的一個重點是包含我們也希望說從這個社會情緒裡邊能夠家長真人能夠怎麼樣"},{"start":4251.79,"end":4273.913,"text":"社區來協助學校那另外還有一個學校裡面除了我們委員我們答應過去支持的這個學生舞蹈法以外我們也希望校安校事人員也能夠在人力上也能夠有所增加另外我想提醒就是家庭教育法其實我們可以再來做更精進的一個研議喔從家庭教育的宣導性我們把它"},{"start":4274.534,"end":4294.567,"text":"把他可以轉成所謂的義務性我們讓第一線就是在第一個現場的家庭教育先讓他讓學生能夠到學校之後面對老師的第二現場能夠更有的資源那我覺得親師生的關係不能失衡也不能讓真的有熱忱想要教學的這樣子的老師他們被卡在所謂的這個縫隙當中其實他們的面臨的壓力是很大的"},{"start":4304.494,"end":4327.371,"text":"那我們確實在終身式家庭教育中心各縣市也在做這一件事情那我們繼續加油因為時間關係最後一個問題我短短的問就是關於載具進入校園就是校園之後要怎麼樣來處理的這個部分我們講到這個高中的部分就是他的學生代表不能低於全體的人數的這個三分之一"},{"start":4327.571,"end":4348.057,"text":"但是三分之二其實它還是來自所謂的師長跟老師我們目前在公告這一個學生代表確實也朝委員的一個建議是這個之前沒有明文規定三分之一原來是授權各校裡面去定比例但它還是三分之一還是少數但真的能夠納入他們的聲音嗎我們目前是有把這一個學生代表"},{"start":4351.438,"end":4377.147,"text":"納入三分之一他至少要三分之一那我們最快什麼時候要跟學生坐下來是六月一號嗎我們是六月一號有實體跟線上同步好那我們就現場看怎麼樣把學生的聲音真的納入我們的政策當中這就是我們在希望跟學生更積極的不要讓我們的初衷不要讓我們的當初的好意跟初衷其實因為這樣子政策的太過粗暴的宣布然後詆毀了這樣子的一個這樣子的一個政策"},{"start":4379.028,"end":4392.012,"text":"教育部的立場跟委員所想的都是一致的好那我們教育部加油謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝郭玉琴委員質詢部長請回座接下來有請劉書斌委員質詢有請鄭部長您先喝水沒關係"},{"start":4407.927,"end":4408.047,"text":"請鄭部長備詞詢 謝謝委員好"},{"start":4413.507,"end":4438.179,"text":"部長好我們上個禮拜已經知道的是美國總統他下令對哈佛的國外的學生的招收就下了一個禁令當然我們目前有影響大概到的是52位的學生現在今天最新的消息我們先看下一頁就是說美國國務院他現在下令對外管就是說停止"},{"start":4438.979,"end":4443.022,"text":"對於學生簽證的這樣一個面談那準備對這些學生們對他的社群媒體做一個審查這個做一個了解來決定他是否能夠進入到美國的一個校園那現在的這個影響的人數我查了一下這樣的資訊就是從我52人現在變成到2020年到現在為止大概每年大概是有3000多到6000的這樣的人數是台灣的新生要到美國去求學啦那面對這樣的問題的時候"},{"start":4469.299,"end":4475.844,"text":"教育部這邊有沒有什麼樣有沒有掌握到形勢有沒有什麼樣的一個協助的一個方向請問部長跟委員報告我們現在也跟AIT在這個研議看怎麼樣來協助台灣的一個學生能夠順利到美國繼續能夠這個築他的夢然後也能夠延他的夢那當然"},{"start":4496.358,"end":4516.008,"text":"先前的這個哈佛大學這52位的學生我們駐外館也都給以這個訊息充分掌握然後也在台灣裡邊如果他有需要我們現在大概有兩個方式不是啊我現在重點是不在哈佛的現在最新的消息是有新生他們現在準備到美國去有關這個他暫停學生的簽證面談我們這個會我們現在正在積極跟AIT我們台灣這個AIT裡邊做一些"},{"start":4525.333,"end":4528.937,"text":"這個溝通演繹看有怎麼樣能夠確保我們台灣的一個學生在這一個學習生涯裡邊能夠順利沿它我想這部分不只是要透過AIT可能要到一個外交層次學術的交流方面去進行我們國際私下目前已經有在做"},{"start":4543.012,"end":4564.491,"text":"但是另外一部分的是現在包括的是日本韓國跟其他的像我們旁邊的香港還有澳門他們都已經針對說有這種對於他們被哈佛的可能就不能再交收這部分或是像更大的部分在說現在因為川普才剛剛就任才不知道幾個月嘛對不對這未來可能四年都是一個有一個波動的不穩定的狀況有沒有採取說針對不到"},{"start":4568.354,"end":4592.819,"text":"就是到美國去有這樣子的一個優惠但是對我們有相對優勢的一些東南亞國家等等的然後他們對才想說也是對優秀的這個學子來做招生的這樣子一個一個準備呢或方向跟我們報告其實我們剛才我要跟委員報告的就是我們除了對學生的一個自己本國生的一個安置我們也希望我們台灣的這些頂尖大學能夠主動的去能夠"},{"start":4594.059,"end":4610.12,"text":"宣告歡迎來到台灣甚至以哈佛為例我們鼓勵台大清大等這些頂尖大學能夠跟哈佛看透過什麼樣方式在現階段因為許多學生包括老師的教學能夠建立一個雙連學位能夠在"},{"start":4611.241,"end":4627.131,"text":"政策還沒改這個還沒改變之前他能夠能夠接到我們台灣來那另外也跟委員報告其實當我們看到這一個美國川普政府在跟相關的一些長春"},{"start":4628.752,"end":4651.45,"text":"騰學校有許多的一些這個校務治理上的一些學生的限制包含老師我們已經為什麼上一次在我們這個夜市場特別提到在這邊跟我們報告的就是兩百億裡面我們事實上也希望這些美國長春日騰學校的教授能夠來到台灣來任教"},{"start":4652.51,"end":4668.889,"text":"所以你們有兩百億就是這邊的投資就對了這裡邊我們事實上有一部分有一半以上是希望能夠延攬國際一流的學者來加入我們台灣的高等教育這樣子非常好希望看到有教育部有做這樣的準備這樣子我們繼續往下一個議題來看就是在"},{"start":4673.072,"end":4683.175,"text":"剛才已經通算是說解凍的部分在書面報告的第三案對於新南向產學國際專班這一部分我還是有些問題想要詢問在於說在這個來台就學的辦法當中他說不得委由校外的機構法人團體來做辦理"},{"start":4690.197,"end":4707.267,"text":"那這些當然是你們想要大力的去打擊包括的是像有些仲介的這一部分他包括是說有些學校有跟仲介有合作那這些部分有沒有關於這個相關的對學生學校跟這個仲介有合作的這個學校的這樣的一個數字跟名單就說他們是跟仲介去招生的不是自己到外國去招生的這部分"},{"start":4716.594,"end":4740.525,"text":"跟委員報告因為確實如果委託特定的仲介團體來我們事實上是違反我們相關規定那你們有去吵到我們目前也有學校就因為這樣我們就把這個班就停止他招生那有哪些學校你不方便我想這一個那就私下公布好不好私下私下來跟委員報告因為這是我們可以繼續再追蹤下去我進來以後就特別事實上這教育部過去就一直在做"},{"start":4741.565,"end":4756.373,"text":"我在這邊為了這個產學產系專班我知道你花了很多的時間我們有這個國教署跟計時師聯合去對我看到你的這個努力啦但是我覺得還是有些部分我還透過這次的解凍報告當中我來做一下詢問"},{"start":4757.694,"end":4766.417,"text":"你們在報告當中有說要去補助學校對於聘任的熟悉學生國語語文的專責人員要聘這些人員但是你們費用是怎麼樣整體預算是怎麼樣規劃的對在這些部分"},{"start":4775.319,"end":4794.4,"text":"因為你沒有預算下去你說人員的話可能是一個空話是 跟委員報告我們國際專修部的學生第一年就是來台灣學華語我們希望他能夠華語至少要到A2以上所以我們補助學校一個學生用五萬元的華語訓練的費用來提供給我們的學校"},{"start":4796.943,"end":4803.705,"text":"把這些學生華語的能力一定要達到第一年結束一定要達到A度讓教師去教他就對了讓華語教師去教這些學生是要具有華語教師能力的人才可以教我就知道這部分你說一個人是五萬元那非常好"},{"start":4815.509,"end":4829.053,"text":"那第二部分就是說我們目前的一個數據大概各個學校在第一年的華語教育大概通過率大概有85%如果他沒有辦法達到我們就請他直接這個回他的一個科學回國那第二個部分就是說因為我在做這個"},{"start":4834.555,"end":4845.159,"text":"質詢的時候有發現到這是一個跨部會的包括的是還有衛福部嘛還包括的是勞動部嘛甚至還包括有經濟部這些部分那你們的跨部會有這個合作機制怎麼樣去讓這個流財的這個計畫這邊能夠怎麼協調跟分工啊"},{"start":4853.988,"end":4856.19,"text":"跟委員報告在行政院底下我們有一個擴大招收外國學生這樣的一個跨部會的會議那裡面就剛剛有提到我們這幾個部會做分工做分工以經濟部來講他們當然是針對後續廠商要提供一些實習的場域"},{"start":4874.807,"end":4881.691,"text":"那勞動部當然就是來提供我們如何保障這些學生實習跟攻讀的一些權益那教育部的部分就是針對如何去海外去延攬這一些學生來台灣就學所以其實部會都有在做這樣的一個會議那這個會議的主召開是由我們國發會來做各部會的一個協調會議以上好 謝謝"},{"start":4902.122,"end":4926.171,"text":"那另外一部分就是說學生他如果留台他畢業之後留台的工作或返回母國作為我國台商之用有沒有相關的績效的這樣的機制去做這個部分我想應該留下來這邊能不能提供給本辦公室是好 跟委員報告新南向產專有我們的留台率還蠻高的這些詳細的數字會後我再提供給委員好 謝謝市長 謝謝署長"},{"start":4929.452,"end":4933.754,"text":"那下面另外一個問題我們今天要針對到的是討論案的第三案就關於營養午餐的這個解凍專案報告這部分那這邊也許好 那就我看到的是在這裡呢看到的是在3月20號的時候那我有詢問群打那個時候是廖萬這個次長他有回復到這部分就是說他未來呢重點是要再找地方政府來協商嘛那我們也知道是財政收支劃分法也是通過了等等的那我想請問一下"},{"start":4958.584,"end":4962.007,"text":"那目前有沒有跟地方政府協商,進行到什麼狀況?"},{"start":4964.093,"end":4991.312,"text":"跟委員報告當裁判法的一個方向定案以後我們就會找地方政府來協商但事實上目前在有關營養午餐的部分因為來自於各地方這個政府他們對營養午餐的看法仍舊沒有共識所以我們在這個部分中央除了這個有定有一些規範以外給予經費支持補助以外那目前"},{"start":5016.465,"end":5041.303,"text":"你們說的那個裁劃法的部分是指的是等到在釋憲在結束後嗎還是說怎麼樣裁劃法是等到釋憲結果才出現才會決定嗎教育部還是一個行政院一個團隊整體行政院裡面到最後的一個政策決定以後我們才能夠有一個依循好把這一些整個資源裡面看怎麼樣去重新做一些調整分配所以包括你們布版的這個"},{"start":5043.659,"end":5066.748,"text":"營養午餐或是說 上次你們去年的時候有一個高級中等以下學校的午餐及營養消費條例這個方向還是會延遲到說會把它擴升到高中就是可以進入到營養午餐的供應對象了是嗎還是往這個方向去推 讓行政院版的會出現嗎目前我們當然因為這個營養午餐中小學還是屬於地方自治的一個權限裡面"},{"start":5067.808,"end":5092.212,"text":"那當然各地方縣市政府他對營養午餐的一個提供他們可能有不同的一個教育階段有不同的一些看法所以這個部分我們目前還是以這個尊重地方他因為財政的一個財政的一個狀況也都不太一樣所以是不是要供餐到高中職這我想這個我們還是保留尊重這個地方的一個"},{"start":5092.812,"end":5113.173,"text":"因為你們的布板送到行政院的事實上就已經是高級中學現在說可能因為財化法還有地方的需求等等有時候我們在條例上當然會把它因為有一些地方確實有做高中職並不是每一個縣市所以我們在法源上是不是讓它有依據但是各地方自主"},{"start":5113.513,"end":5139.851,"text":"本於他的財政本於他對人才培育的一些想像那我想這個部分我們保留地方的這個尊重地方的一個自治好謝謝那我最重要還是把我們現在民眾黨的一個部分的這個需求跟大家說明一下就是說要把這個權責希望這個已經也變成教育部在跟地方協商的時候一個重點當然是說他公餐要有這個權責的一個明確然後呢他的品質食品的部分要安全要保障"},{"start":5140.171,"end":5157.738,"text":"食農教育也是應該要有 弱勢的部分也要保障跟偏鄉的這邊 監督跟機力機師都要具備好那就希望說往這個方向去進行好謝謝委員 我們目前的做法就跟委員的這一個主張是一致的好 OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長好 我們謝謝劉淑冰委員的發言 請部長請回"},{"start":5167.881,"end":5191.414,"text":"我們下一位由我們葛如軍委員來做發言質詢好 謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好 有請部長"},{"start":5198.464,"end":5209.136,"text":"委員好部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎 您有申請持用中國大陸居住證嗎跟委員報告 我應該沒有應該沒有"},{"start":5220.086,"end":5241.408,"text":"再問一次 部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎我對國家一定是忠誠 無庸置疑但是您應該沒有申領持用中國大陸居住證不太確定是嗎我再問一次 部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎沒有"},{"start":5243.663,"end":5269.67,"text":"我再問一次 部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎?您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎?謝謝委員 我對國家絕對是忠誠的我也沒有這一個在中國的任何的一個居住跟這一個身份證再問一次 部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎?您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎?"},{"start":5272.759,"end":5300.335,"text":"跟委員報告我知道委員大概認為我們第一部長請您回答您是不是忠誠有沒有申領持用我的立場已經跟委員報告過我絕對是忠誠無庸置疑再問一次部長請問您對國家忠誠嗎您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎我對國家是忠誠的也沒有申請居住證"},{"start":5301.121,"end":5307.903,"text":"好 再問一次 部長 請問您對國家忠誠嗎您有申領持用中國大陸居住證嗎跟委員報告 我對國家絕對是忠誠的也沒有申請中國急留證部長 經過七次的詢問 請問您對國家的忠誠度有沒有變高有變高嗎 同樣的問題問七次"},{"start":5330.168,"end":5334.21,"text":"您感覺如何?公文報告教育部沒有調查其次沒有調查什麼?就是說對我們第一線上的這些國立的這個學校這個主管或者這個相關人員老師的一個調查我們只是把這個陸委會的這個資訊轉發給這個第一線上各縣市政府"},{"start":5359.15,"end":5378.366,"text":"所以轉發就不是調查在這個短話裡邊我們當然中央有政策希望在整個讓老師們能夠有一個清楚的去重新再審視他到底有沒有這樣的一個部長您這樣的回答我真的不禁要問您是不是對陸委會忠誠沒有我想我們是你對陸委會忠誠嗎我對國家工程陸委會是為了"},{"start":5386.829,"end":5414.38,"text":"陸委會是中央的一個部會所以有幾多跨部會的政策的合作當然我們依法行政部長您剛剛幾次的問答裡面有很多次的答案其實都不一樣啦我想我們可能還要問第八次第九次嗎為了清查軍公教是不是持有中國大陸身份證戶籍或相關證件中央各部會頻繁發文據了解有學校收到七份來自不同機關的公文"},{"start":5415.2,"end":5429.451,"text":"甚至有基層教師簽了七次竊結書啊拒絕書啊本席光是台在台上詢問您同樣的問題老實說啊都有一點覺得對您不太尊重"},{"start":5430.191,"end":5445.506,"text":"台下的眾人也感到荒謬可笑大家甚至笑出聲的是您第一次都還搞不清楚您到底有沒有中國大陸居住證面對各個部會的疲勞轟炸所有的基層教師有非常多人疲於奔命他們笑得出來嗎"},{"start":5446.807,"end":5468.125,"text":"教育部口口聲聲要說行政減量結果呢 現在完全不尊重專業變成施政提款機變成對其他部會忠誠 事實上教育部絕對沒有 絕對是減少行政您剛剛有說您有轉文啊 這些同仁不需要回覆嗎不是說要去填寫嗎"},{"start":5470.627,"end":5490.317,"text":"陸委會 我們透過陸委會的這個轉文也只有兩次第一次就是這個全面調查那第二次只是在提醒我們的這些第一線上的老師你是不是已經填答了 填答就不需要再不需要再恢復我給你時間啦 我剛剛沒有請你發言啦但是我要問你啦"},{"start":5494.623,"end":5522.325,"text":"現在老師們收到這麼多次的詢問老師的權益 老師的時間是不是教育部應該關心的當然是嘛那他們收到了七四拒絕書跟教育部有沒有關啊你說 裡面只有兩次跟我有關您這樣態度對嗎跟委員報告 我們當然感受有沒有關係這七四跟你們有沒有關係嘛你回答我 有沒有關係跟他解釋我都通過了如果這一個"},{"start":5523.246,"end":5528.479,"text":"是跨部會裡面造成第一線上老師的工作的負擔行政的干擾我想我們會來了解所以部長請看"},{"start":5534.595,"end":5555.178,"text":"這個螢幕裡的公文你覺得熟悉嗎?這就是你們函轉行政人事總署轉至陸委會的公文內容要求 我真的不知道部長你有沒有看過啊要求公務員 各機關公務員不論平假日赴中國大陸 均應於赴陸前"},{"start":5563.024,"end":5572.53,"text":"請問部長我們要依法行政公立各級學校教育人員當中有哪些具有公務員的身份依規定要在賦入前提出申請 您知不知道"},{"start":5576.568,"end":5593.62,"text":"賦入前要上這個登錄平台去登錄哪些人要啊哪些人要您知道嗎我目前來講這裡是全部公務員均需喔平日假日喔不分任何理由喔全部要許可誰誰需要公務員報告就是因為"},{"start":5595.041,"end":5610.964,"text":"現在兩岸是處於比較緊張的一個狀態對不起 部長我們要依法行政你要就依法法令是怎麼樣就是怎麼樣現在不是你覺得緊張你覺得不一樣就可以做這是你們轉文的陸委會的資訊請您看清楚第三點如果沒有兼任行政職務者無需依照許可辦法做申請或報准"},{"start":5624.505,"end":5653.67,"text":"你這份全部一竿子打盡是什麼意思跟委員報告這個陸委會這個喊只是希望說我們在我們在復錄的時候能夠依照規定來申請你這就違反他自己的規定嘛你們怎麼沒有保護好教師回到學校他的一個拆請規定那剛剛委員剛剛也有說明就是老師在兼任行政職的部分是有公務員服務法的一個適用我在這裡講的第三點是沒有的"},{"start":5656.507,"end":5680.803,"text":"老師是不是要去大陸地區這個部分要回到學校的一個採請規定我們只針對於這裡白紙黑字寫了內監行政職務者不需要啊現在是怎麼樣我們兩岸關係很緊張閱讀中文都有問題了嗎所以我們在公文上面並沒有針對於所以現在是你現在直接講就是回歸學校各自學校辦理"},{"start":5682.232,"end":5699.252,"text":"我必須告訴各位我們現在這樣的做法已經逾越陸委會自己的台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例所規範的範圍有侵害人民隱私權甚至違反憲法保障人民居住及遷徙自由的可能請問部長啊"},{"start":5702.591,"end":5720.601,"text":"你們自己知不知道你們在做這件事啊這件事情你們剛剛說拆形系統登錄其實有很多公立學校在實際執行上面是有困難的因為有分有兼行政職沒有兼行政職我請問教育部有沒有向陸委會反映"},{"start":5729.09,"end":5745.18,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分還是我剛剛有強調就是說在學校端在學校端他針對出國包括復入這個部分是回到學校他自行的一個規範那我們只針對就是你兼行政職的部分才有"},{"start":5746.101,"end":5761.727,"text":"才有這個服務法的適用請問你這份公文哪裡有分兼行政職沒有兼行政職所以我們在上面並沒有去去寫的寫名嘛所以回到猜情讓我問是不是有老師沒有行政職也收到你們有沒有了解啊"},{"start":5767.284,"end":5779.469,"text":"我剛剛問了教師是不是教育部要管的範圍學校是不是教育部要關心的範圍你們現在轉一個文就不關你們的事了嗎好沒有關係部長現在在旁邊思考這個問題"},{"start":5788.684,"end":5809.1,"text":"陸委會我要幫他們講話啦陸委會可能不知道學校行政上的實務困難啦人事行政總署可能也不清楚教育部會不知道嗎還在裝傻還在裝睡剛剛真的時間是沒有暫停的喔畫面也沒有停格喔我們的教育部長是完全停滯的喔"},{"start":5810.928,"end":5827.368,"text":"事實上這樣真的會扼殺我們的教育人員的權益追究起來看起來根本就是行政怠惰實際上甚至會讓特定的人會覺得這是一種思想清洗的活動嗎我們教育部變成思想教育部了嗎"},{"start":5828.749,"end":5849.325,"text":"我想我再問一次部長沒有兼任行政職的教育人員他們沒有向主管機關或服務機關申請許可或報准賦入的義務教育部憑什麼法條以差型系統為由要求沒有兼行任職的教育人員要一體試用啊他們都收到通知啦他們到底要還是不要如果學校自己要求"},{"start":5855.884,"end":5865.35,"text":"衛軍行政職的人也要填表也要同意你們同意這個做法嗎根據第三第三條裡面它是這一個"},{"start":5867.796,"end":5885.831,"text":"兼行政的當然一定要報准但沒有兼行政的就是依學校相關的一個規定來做來做這一個處理所以老實說那現在教育部的態度到底是什麼我想這一個部分我們會再跟陸委會主動來協調"},{"start":5887.512,"end":5902.581,"text":"好啦 謝謝教育部 以上要求教育部要幫我們做到本席要求教育部就上述我們今天所詢問的事項你們真的應該要發函 像如果會表達校方實務上的困難能不能一個月內將辦理情形書面提供給本席"},{"start":5904.627,"end":5925.734,"text":"好 謝謝不好意思 我爭取一點點時間這個AI是大事啦但是我想要問一下我們現在台灣的AI人才的培訓跟人才的培育這麼厚一本的書面解凍報告對AI人才培育的回覆只有在319頁181個字"},{"start":5929.793,"end":5955.375,"text":"部長你認為這樣子足夠嗎你覺得這樣我們能夠培育足夠的嗎我直接給你看數字從110年到112年AI陸續成長我們的人才竟然是減少我們是怎麼樣我們這跟全世界平行時空嗎我們不是AI內閣嗎如果今年又再減少我們怎麼辦"},{"start":5956.946,"end":5984.496,"text":"現在全世界都有AI缺乏人才的問題啊美國啊1月份專門做了AI Talent Report人工智慧的人才報告他們說供不應求啊他們非常努力他們用三種方式增加第一個增加本地訓練第二個增加在國外受訓的減少本地生的流出第三個增加基地措施"},{"start":5985.782,"end":6005.087,"text":"我現在要問部長 近期川普有國際生禁令 全球都在搶人中港澳各地大學開綠色通道 日本文部科學省直接表示他們要收這些學生 我們今天早上又收到消息"},{"start":6006.307,"end":6013.369,"text":"學生簽證的面談可能會受到影響結果部長您剛剛在我們委員質詢的時候你說我們有雙簾學位 歡迎各個學校去洽談這不是應該用專案嗎這不是應該用教育部的高度嗎我們看到日本文部科學省我們看到中港澳在搶人部長有沒有做法"},{"start":6029.121,"end":6050.648,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們在第一個時間我相信還有幾多國家剛才委員所提到的我為什麼在高等教育那邊200億裡面有一半以上我就是當時看到川普在對Columbia的一些經費上的一些可能會縮減的時候我們已經就想到說能不能"},{"start":6052.038,"end":6072.803,"text":"讓這些人才 所以我要跟委員報告的是我想我們這個部分 我們態度是積極的那當然許多 因為在這個場域我也盡量讓委員能夠給我們一些意見之外兩個問題 有沒有發新聞稿 日本就直接發新聞稿啊第二 有沒有專案 人家有沒有綠色通道 有沒有做我們現在事實上是有 還沒嘛"},{"start":6077.85,"end":6101.107,"text":"就是還沒嘛 是不是還沒跟委員報告其實在第一時間針對這些外國學生要來台就讀的意願我們有跟我們的大學已經傳達相關的訊息那學校也表達他們願意來招收這些外國學生好 謝謝這個高度要做出來同時我們也有學生是不是有權益受到影響我們賴清德總統說拖中入北啊"},{"start":6102.399,"end":6113.37,"text":"結果現在北部給你入啊那哈佛的學生可能進不去可能還有更多的學生權益受到影響啊老實說我一直都覺得我們要廣結善緣部長你回應一下我們有沒有學生受到影響接下來怎麼處理"},{"start":6116.318,"end":6132.152,"text":"所以剛才跟委員報告我們初步上以哈佛來講是有52位學生包含已經申請甚至繳了這個住宿都已經找好這個接下來今天早上的新聞有沒有收到啊教育部同仁有給你吧是"},{"start":6133.713,"end":6157.889,"text":"這個學生圈還不只哈佛啊 是這個影響範圍是不是會擴大 是所以我跟委員報告我們就是說我們也跟AIT在溝通協調這一方面我們要去照顧到我們台灣的這個留學生的權益部長 少花一點時間做政治思想的這些清洗我想我們各部會都非常負責教育部有更多更重要任財培育的事情要做"},{"start":6159.709,"end":6184.736,"text":"這個思想控制我想委員這樣講對我是不公平的我沒有這樣說 我說少做一些多做一點對的事情我從來不做政治的一個思想的一個控制我只很清楚來自一個教育專業我服從教育基本法怎麼樣在人才培育讓我們的新世代年輕人對國家有多一份的一個喜愛好 我最後爭取幾秒鐘"},{"start":6187.077,"end":6192.701,"text":"部長你知不知道速發部在做專案報告推估AI人才需求你知不知道這份報告"},{"start":6196.603,"end":6206.086,"text":"你不是說你要推展這個人才嗎 你要依法啊也感謝委員 委員本身也是這一個專業 對不對那我們一上來的時候因為這一個AI人才產業確實需求恐極所以為什麼我們開始有一個大的一個來自於線上的一個AI課程的一個課程的規劃我想這一個方向目標都是一樣部長 我要告訴你的是你們現在正在被AI內閣的所有其他部位孤立的可能喔"},{"start":6227.106,"end":6239.45,"text":"國科會經濟部都有相關的計畫跟你們有關的人才攻擊完全沒有問過你們跟AI人才培育有關的東西涉及之部會空白啊為什麼呢"},{"start":6243.82,"end":6261.429,"text":"因為大家看到你們的都是這些國防妻子啊禁止婦入交流啊是不是連其他部會都在誤會你們的工作啦老實說這樣真的不好所以我希望部長我們希望跟各個部會更增強聯繫跟學校增強聯繫要幫老師跟學校來維護權益這是教育部以及教育部部長您的工作我最後提醒我們的學生版AI手冊"},{"start":6273.455,"end":6277.8,"text":"從我去年2月1號上任以來到現在 沒看到"},{"start":6278.897,"end":6306.026,"text":"什麼時候推出這是我最後一個問題謝謝委員的關心那這個AI手冊的一個部分學生版對是我們在年底會有出版出來然後昨天已經開完專家對於這整個手冊架構的一個諮詢會所以我們會盡快在年底把出版處理出來好謝謝委員謝謝希望教育部可以硬起來真的好好的來做好教育還有教育部長分內應該做的事我們大家一起來努力謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6309.346,"end":6337.107,"text":"好我們謝謝各位委員的發言有請部長請回座我們下一位葉元之委員質詢發言麻煩請教育部長謝謝好有請教育部部長謝謝"},{"start":6344.645,"end":6360.276,"text":"部長好前兩天台北市長蔣萬安有公開的呼籲一件事情說台北市已經近三年有代理教室荒很多學校六招七招找不到人然後有的學校甚至要招四十五次才招到代理老師"},{"start":6361.229,"end":6374.357,"text":"那這個部分我有跟新北市有一些學校有詢問過確實現在大家要招代理教師都遇到相當困難有的也是要招好幾次才有那我不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的現象"},{"start":6376.234,"end":6391.382,"text":"這一個確實我非常清楚台北市特別在我們現在的科技產業一枝獨秀的時候我們老師的報酬各方面確實他面臨了一個在延展人才上有更大的挑戰原因是什麼不是只有台北市喔"},{"start":6395.083,"end":6408.192,"text":"我剛講說台北市有一些學校也一樣您的了解為什麼會出現這個狀況台北市在整個剛才委員也特別提到了這個生活物價各方面的它確實調整得很好物價是其中一個因素啦還有沒有其他因素"},{"start":6411.431,"end":6436.556,"text":"沒有 部長 你那一個直轄市 台北市長都公開喊話了然後部長都沒有看到台北市我知道 部長平常都在忙什麼啊這一個市長特別提到說 代理教師三年的限制好 那除了這個之外呢你有沒有去跟學校了解一下這個學校有沒有遇到這個狀況 大致的原因是什麼你有沒有稍微去了解一下我是不是請這個市長沒關係啦 部長 我來講啦"},{"start":6439.321,"end":6463.935,"text":"你稍微去每個學校去問一下就會知道了有一個學校的回饋啦譬如說現在校園的環境到底對老師來說是不是夠友善我覺得這也是其中一個問題因為現在有的小朋友像我知道有的學校前一段時間才發生的學生對老師罵三字經五字經然後還吐口水那老師也不知道怎麼辦了因為如果說老師"},{"start":6465.478,"end":6491.232,"text":"假設就是比較有一些反應回應稍微激烈一點很可能就會被告被告就要進入校事會議校事會議也許要進行大概兩個月左右最後結果或許說有可能會還老師清白但是這兩個月的煎熬其實對老師來說也是心理上一個很大的負擔就是說校園第一個就是校園對老師是否夠友善那不知道這個部分部長有什麼看法嗎"},{"start":6493.517,"end":6504.802,"text":"謝謝委員其實我們大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個也感謝大苑通過了這個學生舞蹈我們希望更積極的去協助學生在整個發展過程裡邊能夠有一個更好的一個發展這對老師來講是有一個他能夠專心這個教學的一個穩定力量第二個"},{"start":6513.126,"end":6525.353,"text":"市長不要答非所問啦我講的是說一個學校對老師我在思考這個問題跟委員報告我是從系統性在思考所以委員過去也關心的就是學務的工作校安的事件我們確實對老師對學校確實造成了一些困擾"},{"start":6530.055,"end":6546.312,"text":"壓力也比較相對大這也是造成老師不願意到學校等於說有專業的人才他不願意投入到教師的工作所以我們現在從今年開始我們也事實上也開始在補助地方徵聘這一些所謂的"},{"start":6547.253,"end":6573.239,"text":"校務的一些行政人力希望能夠這個我等一下會跟你討論第一個我覺得我們要怎麼樣去提高就是校園對老師友善這一塊我覺得我認為還是要對症下藥不是說不是說好像有什麼系統性用講一個那麼大的方向但針對具體的狀況卻沒有一個方案出來我順便問一下9月28號教師節今年來得及放假嗎部長"},{"start":6578.356,"end":6581.157,"text":"我想這個放假我們就按照這個來得及嗎法定規定可以這個放假我們當然就我一個建議好不好我覺得9月28號如果有放假的話可不可以擴大的來"},{"start":6595.321,"end":6617.738,"text":"辦理一些敬師傾師的活動好不好讓大家就是找回那種尊師重道的那種價值非常感謝委員提醒我想這是很有價值的一個活動讓大家要尊重老師第二個代理教師慌我問到的還有一個狀況很多代理教師很擔心"},{"start":6619.491,"end":6634.891,"text":"進到學校以後就馬上就要接行政職那這個部分我上次在總質詢的時候也有跟部長討論過因為行政職現在正式老師很多不願意接嘛所以通常行政職一開圈都是找那種剛考進學校的正式教師去接"},{"start":6635.785,"end":6658.766,"text":"那有的正式教師如果說也不夠的話就找代理老師上次有跟普朗說會衍生兩個問題第一個正式老師剛考進去他本來是想要 譬如說他是數學老師正準備要教數學結果跟大家講說你數學先不用教你去兼行政那這是對老師教學上或者學生受教權我覺得也會有影響然後第二個沒有就找代理教師那問題是我們現在"},{"start":6660.928,"end":6679.813,"text":"整個教育環境對行政人員也是不友善嘛所以才會產生行政大逃亡我還有聽說南部啦開六個校長的缺只有四個報考現在真的行政大逃亡的狀況非常嚴重那當然第一個教育部現在也在推行政減量那我們來看一下"},{"start":6683.529,"end":6697.248,"text":"對我這邊還有一個對老師不友善我請教育部也去了解一下現在教師受傷的案件數也呈現上升你看109年教師受傷一年是77件現在113年"},{"start":6700.899,"end":6719.994,"text":"從113年8月1號統計到114年的5月23號受傷211件他是曾倍數成長這個我今天就不討論 不問了但是你們去研究一下為什麼老師受傷案件倍增那麼多啦好 那我現在要講的就是行政檢量部分剛剛我們召回革命軍也有在問這個問題"},{"start":6722.332,"end":6741.458,"text":"就是要可能教育部都配合陸委會嘛去查老師到底有沒有中國大陸的身分證戶籍或相關證件這個不是不能查啦如果國家的政策要了解軍公教到底有沒有大陸的戶籍不是不能查但是不同單位全部發文給學校發文的七次"},{"start":6742.398,"end":6759.218,"text":"那確實是有確實不同的單位都有發文給七次老師我問的狀況坦白說老師大概拒絕一次就拒絕一次 為什麼因為很多學校的人士收到以後因為已經統計過了就沒有叫老師再來拒絕一次但是這個也是一個"},{"start":6760.339,"end":6786.172,"text":"行政的負擔嘛因為人事收到以後每一個文來了他都要回一次每一個文來了都要回一次類似的狀況很多啊所以教育部能不能做一個統籌的單位以後問一樣的問題是不是就教育部來做單一窗口就好不要陸委會發一次行政院秘書長發一次權序部發一次大家都發一次那學校人事單位人事組主任或組長或相關的人當然很忙啊"},{"start":6786.932,"end":6796.055,"text":"就是做重複做七次一樣的事情這就是行政負擔這違背教育部行政減量嘛我不知道部長能不能做到啊"},{"start":6797.039,"end":6822.953,"text":"我想謝謝委員提醒行政檢量本來就是教育部一直在努力的但是也讓委員知道教育部轉發當然有我們就是一次我同意的但是有時候可能中央部會直接到那個地方譬如說其他的中央部會轉到你聽我講一下我的意思是說教育部就是要照顧學校嘛不要讓學校的行政負擔越來越增加嘛"},{"start":6823.433,"end":6842.082,"text":"一件事情要行政人員回七次那站在教育主管機關教育部的立場難道不能夠站在學校角度去跟其他單位溝通說這個東西以後大家不要各自扒過去就我教育部統籌我們要讓行政人員不要那麼大負擔這教育部這樣都做不到喔這個倒是我們可以來努力的"},{"start":6843.262,"end":6843.803,"text":"我也利用這個機會跟委員報告"},{"start":6872.722,"end":6896.418,"text":"沒有我只是要瞄準事實例如說像剛剛舉的那個例子查有沒有大陸戶籍這件事情讓老師同樣一件事回了七次嘛那你如果認為這個也會造成負擔那以後教育部就溝通嘛那當然你會講其他問題我們可以一個一個來解決嘛可是那是不相干的嘛謝謝委員 謝謝委員我們會努力再來我跟請教一下因為後來你也可以去了解一下陸委會說還要繼續查啦"},{"start":6899.663,"end":6914.978,"text":"內政部說第二波要鎖定公立教師跟公職你看這是5月26號中央社新聞他說之前只是第一波啦第二波要針對公職與公立學校教師展開清查這個部分部長你有掌握嗎"},{"start":6918.988,"end":6945.331,"text":"跟委員報告 這個部分我們目前沒有接到沒有接到 你去了解一下好不好是不要再造成我們剛剛講的狀況要不要各單位又再問一次讓那個人事主任忙死了好不好這個問題我們會再去了解就是說以後要查就找教育部發一次大家回就好 不要七次好不好 因為現在又要第二波那我的了解是公立學校教師都已經都已經填過了啊填過為什麼還要再查一次"},{"start":6946.926,"end":6973.945,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪 但如果會不在你們不知道去了解一下好不好 去提醒一下是 好 謝謝然後行政這個有關於行政減量最近有一個議題在學校討論得很熱烈跟教育部長來討論一下就是專職交通導護的問題因為前一段時間三峽發生一個很不幸的一個交通重大意外事故事件所以有些校園在討論說那是不是還要讓老師來兼這個交通導護"},{"start":6975.151,"end":6997.339,"text":"那很多老師當然老師來兼交通導護也會造成老師的一些風險有沒有可能教育部可以跟警政署或相關機關討論一下請他們支援專職的交通導護人力這有沒有可能還是教育部已經有類似的有看到學校這樣的呼籲已經有類似的想法有沒有"},{"start":6998.51,"end":7021.323,"text":"跟委員報告從中央的一個角度我們當然會請謹慎處從行政上給予地方的一些協助但是也跟委員報告國民教育它確實是地方以我們校法為地方自治所以各縣市政府裡面譬如說我也在校安行政院的一個校安會議裡面特別提到通學步道中央交通部"},{"start":7022.475,"end":7028.3,"text":"補助了非常多的錢不要這樣子好不好我才跟你講的是專職教育導護的問題你又給我扯到那個通學上去如果這樣我就直接跟委員報告從我的觀點那是地方的權責他整天去維護各縣市政府的小孩子的一個安全縣市政府有責任"},{"start":7042.55,"end":7061.528,"text":"台北市他可能會有需要專職交通保護問題新北市可能有需要台中可能有需要花蓮可能有需要台南可能有需要高雄可能有需要等一下我還沒有不要插話好不好如果全國都有類似一致的需要那就是全國一致性的問題"},{"start":7062.549,"end":7081.307,"text":"教育部是全國主管教育最高的機關那教育部不能訂出一個政策出來嗎怎麼難道就是說台北市你比較重視交通所以你有專職導護台南你沒有沒關係這就推卸責任嘛如果說什麼事情都推給地方的話那教育部到底要負責什麼文報這不是推卸責任"},{"start":7081.687,"end":7105.693,"text":"那你至少你教育部你也可以召集所有的各縣市政府來聊一下嘛說你們有沒有這樣的需求台北市也可以聽聽台南的意見然後台中也可以聽聽新北的意見大家來思考一下怎麼樣在交通這一塊可以做得更好而且這是一個重大的事件耶在全國關注三峽的這個重大交通事件然後教育部的態度居然是說那是地方政府的事 跟我無關"},{"start":7106.733,"end":7134.528,"text":"怎麼會有這種態度呢維護學童的安全這絕對是大家都一致共通的一些基本的一個態度所以我現在問的一個政策問題嘛我的政策問題就是說現在還要讓老師去兼交通保護嗎能不能夠教育部比如說協同其他單位去思考說有沒有可以讓比如說警察機關來推動警政署他有個政策各地可以請當地的警察局一交協助學生上下學"},{"start":7135.588,"end":7157.113,"text":"這當然是中央一致的政策 怎麼會去推給地方政府呢這能不能做你最起碼 教育部最起碼也可以召集各縣市政府來討論一下嘛怎麼會說 一講就說 這個是地方政府的事我們事實上是有跟地方政府在討論這件事情的有討論 還是開會討論嗎 還是電話討論開會 開會討論然後呢 結論是什麼"},{"start":7164.878,"end":7189.085,"text":"什麼時候開的會會後在今天下班前給委員資料當時討論有把一些縣市的經驗有些縣市他用校安的導護有些縣市用義交的導護這些經驗我們都會整個縣市有些縣市發現他還是要老師但老師相關的保險那要做一點處理人事總署也配合協助所以這些整個下班前給委員做個報告謝謝"},{"start":7190.925,"end":7203.394,"text":"所以中央就是有角色嘛怎麼會問到議題之後呢中央就說那地方政府的事我不能接受部長這種態度啦然後最後我問一下校安人力啦上次在總執行員有跟你請教你說五月份的時候這個就會實施嘛對吧"},{"start":7204.335,"end":7231.816,"text":"是 我們事實上這個經費也都撥到五月份的時候就已經撥到各學校去了所以現在學校已經有可以二選一了一個是檢課津貼另外一個是可以聘請專職的校園人員是的是不是是那我這邊有兩個建議啦再請部長研究一下第一個如果有些學校他是選擇用檢課津貼的方式請未來在施培的過程當中可以增加一些校安的課程這樣可以嗎"},{"start":7233.982,"end":7254.311,"text":"是不是在或者是其他教育訓練可以教師的真能這個我們同意真能這一塊增加校安的好不好而且甚至未來引用專業的這個行政人員他必須要有這樣的素養這第一個第二個能力上面因為上次我有跟部長報告高中是六個班一個校安人員"},{"start":7255.458,"end":7272.333,"text":"那國中現在好不容易有了二選一方案要嘛是可以增加一個副組長的檢課津貼第二個就是好不容易一個專職校園人員但是全校一個30個班也是一個60個班也是一個但高中是6個班就一個可不可以"},{"start":7273.206,"end":7292.189,"text":"增加我知道部長一定會講說這個預算啊這是地方政府的事啊又怎麼樣一定會講這些東西搞不好要遲到才化法什麼的我現在只問你說你覺得能不能 有沒有必要增加增加校安人力讓學校有更安全的一個學習教學的環境一直是教育部努力的目標"},{"start":7292.93,"end":7321.004,"text":"所以剛才委員事實上也很清楚我們必須要全盤去考量總體的一個議長因為我今天我們在這邊我們就是討論教育議題啦好不好就討論教育議題你認為有沒有必要增加如果部長在這邊宣示說你覺得有必要增加因為你也覺得高中六個人六班一個國中現在全校一個好像確實是人數有點懸殊我們應該要朝向增加的目標那後面大家再來談嘛來談說中央地方大家怎麼做經濟分配嘛"},{"start":7322.085,"end":7351.044,"text":"今年我會有這一個就是已經展現教育部的態度我們也希望地方政府大家中央跟地方一起來合作能夠朝這一個部長我們先定一個目標出來再去講經費嘛你認為國中應該要增加到幾半一個校園人員比較合理我必須要有一個更完整的一個評估更完整的評估現在沒辦法回答那要評估多久可不可以評估好之後跟我們教育五號委員會的委員講一下評估多久"},{"start":7352.836,"end":7372.711,"text":"是不是讓我們先在這一學期裡面我們先做了我們整體來評估然後看怎麼樣一個合適的一個校安人力的一個支持我想那個方向跟委員的想法是一致的但是請讓我們有一個更詳細的那你講一個時間嘛就是說你大概要評估多久嘛增加校安人力這一塊"},{"start":7373.792,"end":7389.383,"text":"大概多久吧謝謝委員剛剛部長有提到一四學年會增加校安人力現在政治學務人力跟副組長這已經在調查我們先做一學期看看一學期之後來做一個補助報告作為新學年的一個評估的資訊好 謝謝謝謝月圓之委員諮詢 官員請回座接下來有請陳秀寶委員諮詢"},{"start":7407.983,"end":7412.055,"text":"謝主席 請教育部政部長有請政部長備諮詢 謝謝"},{"start":7419.442,"end":7436.479,"text":"首先我們還是要先來關心關於美國川普政府禁止哈佛收外籍學生這個消息那本席相信這個消息不論是說對已經錄取的學生還是教育部來說都是很震驚的但我們接下來主要我們最要緊要想的是說會衍生的問題以及我們相對應的解決的辦法"},{"start":7440.003,"end":7445.925,"text":"那目前除了錄取的新生之外也有說外籍生、舊生如果說你離開、返回母校像你寒暑假你回國之後是沒有辦法持續再註冊就讀的那關於這部分的說法教育部不知道有沒有聽說你們有沒有針對這樣的狀況有管道去協助台灣的這些哈佛學生適宜或是"},{"start":7463.332,"end":7487.105,"text":"後續的學業應該做提供哪一些的幫助尤其剛才有委員有提到現在最新的消息是說現在是全面的暫停學生簽證面談但這個對已經決定要去美國念書已經做足充足準備的這些學生真的是晴天霹靂但針對像相關的這些學生目前我們教育部針對受影響的學生的狀況我們有什麼協助的辦法"},{"start":7489.738,"end":7508.425,"text":"其實感謝委員的關心我們對這個在哈佛的52名的學生我們駐外都會跟他們主動的保持聯絡然後也如果他們要回來台灣我們在台清教這些頂尖大學也都高教師也都分別跟學校"},{"start":7510.286,"end":7534.374,"text":"請學校在這一個部分能夠無縫的接軌讓他們要進台大因為能夠進到哈佛事實上這學生的這一個各項的一些才識都是非常好的部長您的意思說是這些學生如果他想要回台就讀的話是沒有問題的那我想請教關於如果說暑假寒假他們返台之後會不能再繼續註冊就讀這是真的嗎"},{"start":7537.313,"end":7566.813,"text":"這個你們有沒有管道去協助學生的了解這個部分我們目前查了美國國務院的官網其實並沒有宣布這項禁令所以救生的話目前是不需要去擔憂這個部分但是他們可能會針對就是是否有曾經參與過以色列對於就是加薩的這個行動有表達有之前有參與相關的抗議事件的這個部分的學生"},{"start":7567.794,"end":7588.352,"text":"這次他們全面的就是暫停學生的面談主要也是在針對社群調查這個部分應該是全球的學生都是這樣子調查的今天雖然有這個新聞但是我們跟AIT這邊了解之後AIT目前還沒有接到國務院的任何的指示"},{"start":7589.093,"end":7616.998,"text":"所以目前已經排定的學生面談還是會照常進行好 謝謝那其實就像部長您剛說的能夠錄取哈佛的學生都是非常優秀的那本席也相信這是國際間大家都是認定的那在川普政府禁止哈佛售外籍生的這個消息一傳出呢周邊我們其實很多國家像日本啊 香港啊他就對這些優秀的學生招手那我想請教教育部我們會不會邀請這些優秀的學生來我國就讀"},{"start":7618.953,"end":7645.12,"text":"我想我們的想法跟委員或者委員所提供的這些不管日本事實上在整個國際上反映最快的事實上是新加坡新加坡國立大學我們已經都充分掌握資訊所以在當新加坡國立大學有對這個Columbia的一個川普總統對Columbia的這個學校經費上的一些可能的一些縮減我們已經就開始在規劃台灣怎麼樣在"},{"start":7647.381,"end":7651.002,"text":"這個國際的等於說美國的這些優秀的實質人才能夠來到台灣包含這個招生我們事實上教育部在今年的暑假裡面就積極規劃了歐洲的纜財跟美國的一個纜財我們希望不只是學生同時也是一個這個實質人力上的一些年輕學者上我們事實上是也有很多的一些規劃"},{"start":7671.647,"end":7697.538,"text":"所以教育部這邊已經有著手在規劃相關的 是的 公文報告當這個中美的這個貿易的這些的許多的一些這個競爭裡邊川普的宣示這個關稅那我們已經在著手這個消息出來事實上教育部已經在著手做許多的規劃好 那其實新聞裡面有提到這些無法進入哈佛就讀的學生呢陸續會到"},{"start":7699.099,"end":7716.375,"text":"歐洲學校就讀的意願是比較高的可能是因為語系的關係那我本席這邊希望說教育部不僅可以全面的照顧我國學生的權益那也可以協助這些優秀的國際學生到台灣來但是像香港日本他們相當的積極他們不僅是說有一些成立專屬的這些團隊來協助包括安排"},{"start":7722.721,"end":7742.547,"text":"住宿签证的安排简化入学的流程无条件录取等等相关的学术的资源都非常的积极那日本也是他们境内的大学已经开始在商量如何尽速的协助这些愿意到日本就读的学生那我们是不是也有要比较积极的方案来对应呢"},{"start":7743.117,"end":7769.228,"text":"是感謝委員提醒確實我們現在這個頂尖大學國內頂尖大學完全都是百分之百歡迎哈佛的學生來到台灣就讀那這個部分我想我們就不是只是做我們是也能夠見賢思齊確實這個日本他有一個這樣一個新聞的一個發布我想我們也可以來但是我要跟委員報告我們所規劃的東西絕對因為事實上"},{"start":7772.529,"end":7778.775,"text":"AEUS 新加坡國立大學他們只要川普宣布哪一個大學要縮減經費他們人就已經到那一個大學裡面去招兵買馬我想這些事實上我們資訊都充分掌握我們也希望能夠見賢知情"},{"start":7787.483,"end":7806.412,"text":"也應該要提供相關的對等的優渥減變的流程來吸引這些學生他們不會覺得麻煩覺得說來到台灣念書我們有頂見的大學我們有很好的國家風情但是我們也有很減變的手續讓他們不會覺得說用這個減變度去選擇到哪個國家去就讀的話我覺得說我們不要在這個部分輸了人家所以我們應該也有一個配套的流程來提供給這些學生"},{"start":7815.997,"end":7835.094,"text":"這我們這個積極來做我們會後馬上來這個規劃接下來我這邊要跟部長討論就是有關於高中以下學生手機管理規範這個問題那校園及學生使用手機的問題一直是本席非常關心我相信教育所有原因都是非常關心的議題"},{"start":7836.055,"end":7854.346,"text":"那針對教育部我們定調手機在校園裡面應該進行管理的部分我是肯定的但是規範的內容是不是有廣納學生的意見那進行與受影響群眾包含像學生家長老師有進行有效的溝通我覺得教育部是真的做得不夠我們在討論"},{"start":7856.107,"end":7862.891,"text":"探討短音影音的內容的時候我們是要求教育部這邊要進行媒體這個試讀的課程讓學生有正確的觀念他可以去判斷可以去思考就是說關於他所接觸到的短音影音是不是對他自己是有負面影響的是不是必須的那我們在討論使用手機的時候呢我們有沒有跟孩子們灌輸溝通教育說合理使用手機的方式問題不在手機而是我們如何使用如何正確使用"},{"start":7884.984,"end":7902.198,"text":"但是目前看來當然我們國小生 國中小生跟高中生這個脫鉤的方式我也是支持的但是目前看起來教育部真的在溝通的部分跟廣大意見的部分是做得不到位啦所以會讓高中的學生反彈的聲浪很強烈那6月1號我們會有個說明會之後教育部我們後續的期程規劃是什麼"},{"start":7911.629,"end":7933.19,"text":"謝謝委員關心 確實我們當時考慮到這個高中職跟國中小他是透過分流管理然後這個也希望因為高中在整個學習課程上他確實跟國中小有許多的差異所以我們在出定的一個草案辦法的一個包含跟地方跟各個"},{"start":7934.571,"end":7953.159,"text":"團體裡面的一個座談我們確實是授權比較是授權各地方這一個政府跟學校裡面訂定相關的規則當然包含納入學生的代表沒有明文規定但是後來委員也很關心能不能學生的意見希望能夠達到三文之一我們也"},{"start":7954.099,"end":7969.655,"text":"具體的從善如流就說至少要三分之一這裡邊的一個代表我們目前預告在網路上的這一個預告平台也把學生的意見改為三分之一的一個代表我想委員所提的我們本來就希望說"},{"start":7970.436,"end":7997.251,"text":"在科技的一個世代裡邊怎麼樣善用科技能夠有助於年輕世代更好的學習更好的成長但是也不要因為科技而使得他在上課上的不專心或者影響他副相的一些身心的發展對校園的一些學生權益的一個維護包括尊重學生的一些聲音我們事實上也希望透過這一次的一個手機修訂在6月1號裡邊能夠在"},{"start":7999.952,"end":8018.361,"text":"有一個更大型的一個實體跟線上的一個公聽會然後作為我們更完善的一個定案上的一個修正上的一些意見那意思就是說在6月1號之後我們還會再有一個比較大型的然後對象是可以包含到比較廣面的這樣子的一個公聽會"},{"start":8020.942,"end":8042.719,"text":"因為其實學生所反映上來的意見 他們會覺得說如果你們都沒有問過我們 都沒有學生的意見來查那其實他們有時候在學校使用手機是要跟學校或是跟老師溝通相關的事物那下課的時間應該是不是要回歸給學生有他們自主選擇 而不是全面禁用等等那其實在學校段呢 他們也會因為是不是不想惹事端 不想讓學生反彈"},{"start":8044.881,"end":8054.286,"text":"那這樣子在規範寬還是鬆還是延這個部分呢就可能是不是會觸犯到我們相關的法規或者說反而讓學生反彈讓教師反彈這個部分我覺得這個尺度上我們還是要一個更廣泛的討論那其實國際間對學生使用手機"},{"start":8064.571,"end":8080.272,"text":"到目前都慢慢地也祭出了規範而且是越來越嚴的狀況因為是希望說把這個手機的正面跟負面讓學生可以去理解不要說因為手機的方便性、便利性反而帶給它是學習上的主力"},{"start":8080.872,"end":8102.13,"text":"這個部分我想家長們教師們都是支持的但是如何讓孩子們去理解到也感受到說他們的權益不會被教育部剝奪而且他們的聲音他們的意見你們是尊重的是是有一個可以採納的這個部分呢我也希望說教育部這邊能夠讓學生感受到說你們是"},{"start":8104.351,"end":8108.837,"text":"很善意的在對這個手機做規範那這個部分呢除了說公聽會那廣大意見之外呢我們會不會參採國外的範例就是有示範期或者說我們會持續的在怎樣的時間裡面是滾動檢討的"},{"start":8121.292,"end":8147.388,"text":"我想謝謝委員提醒那個方向確實一直都是我們在努力的包含學校的一個規範他的一個這個管理我們也初步也提出了這一個四種的一個方式那這四種的方式裡面有的是由我們尊重學校他可能通過的是採用由學校同意來管理或者又各各班的班級裡面設置這一個手機置物櫃那也有第三個選項譬如說"},{"start":8148.769,"end":8176.722,"text":"學生是關機然後放在書包裡邊就是說配合因應這個可能學習上需要的時候才拿出來我想這裡邊我們事實上都也做了一些參考國外的經驗那也希望在6月1號以後我們有一個更完善的一個學生的一個意見事實上在過去我們不管在高雄或者在台北我們也都收集了一些學生團體的一些意見那也許我們希望透過6月1號"},{"start":8177.782,"end":8196.778,"text":"有一個更完整的一些政策上的一些確定我想這一個我們會根據學生的6月1號的一些我們再做一些這一個看怎麼樣來調整讓能夠真正落實讓學生有更好的科技的使用然後也不會影響到他整個"},{"start":8198.419,"end":8213.97,"text":"謝謝部長 但是我還是要提醒一下滾動隨時滾動檢討這個必要性啦就是隨時 我們不是說一個方案定下去就一定是這樣子做我們可以隨時根據不同的狀況來調整這個部分我希望有這樣的空間好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝承秀保委員諮詢 官員請回座接下來有請林怡瑾召委諮詢"},{"start":8228.87,"end":8229.631,"text":"謝主席 有請鄭部長有請鄭部長備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":8238.854,"end":8262.986,"text":"委員好部長好我想本席首先還是先來關心這個校園手機管制這個議題那當然你們這個草案確實引發很多高中生的反彈那我們來想想像這個問題就學生手機因為我們是為了要來治所謂的網路成癮這件事情那當然學生手機網路成癮"},{"start":8264.542,"end":8285.578,"text":"治標的方式有很多啦可是我今天想跟部長談治本那本席認為說第一個啦自由是必須要學習的這個我想部長你一定很認同那我們現在的台灣已經是一個資訊化自由化的時代那你要限縮學生的自由然後"},{"start":8286.218,"end":8305.662,"text":"沒有辦法讓學生去學習如何使用手機的知識或者是說你在網路上太自我保護的這種觀念我們試著要這樣做可是我覺得你會讓這些所謂的高中生某程度是準大人會讓這些準大人沒有機會去學習說這個面對即將到來是全面開放全面自主的所謂大學生活"},{"start":8314.404,"end":8333.562,"text":"這是第一點第二點是我們需要一個新時代的校園因為校園平權啊或者是校園民主化這個趨勢我們沒辦法擋所以我們必須要更有新的思維去面對每個學生是一個對等的個體那不大可能像以前那種管制的那種"},{"start":8335.043,"end":8363.64,"text":"管制的那種集體的管制那樣那換個話講就是說你現在如果要求說導師獨立來管理一個班級那我覺得也是一個不可能的任務因為現在的這個班級治理可能需要跨專業跨領域人才的分工合作那過去老師靠一些高壓的方法或威權來領導那個班級我覺得這個已經被淘汰了那手機的問題其實也是反映"},{"start":8365.622,"end":8380.782,"text":"它反映出單一導師要管理一個班級的不可能教育部發布這樣的禁令某個程度我覺得也就是類似這樣的類比也是治標不治本再來就是說其實手機跟網路其實不是毒藥"},{"start":8382.594,"end":8402.721,"text":"那我舉個例子像說像菜刀它可以是殺人的武器可是它也可能是一個國宴主廚的涼拌它可以透過菜刀組成一桌的佳餚所以就是說管制菜刀大家就會覺得很荒謬為什麼要管制菜刀可是菜刀有可能殺人所以怎麼樣去"},{"start":8406.742,"end":8432.655,"text":"運用用這樣的概念手機網路是現代人生活的一部分不可或缺所以教務怎麼樣從旁協助去來導正或者來把這個所謂的讓學生學會怎麼樣跟手機網路和平共存我想這才是治本的方式而不是說要學生類似戒斷這種方式"},{"start":8434.676,"end":8454.642,"text":"那我想說當然剛剛有很多委員提及我們6月1號就要來開座談會那我猜學生一定會勢必提出很多的看法那教育部到底要如何去整理或參酌學生的意見然後來整理這個修正目前我們公告的這個版本"},{"start":8456.437,"end":8467.49,"text":"面對我剛提的這個問題不曉得部長你有什麼樣的看法那怎麼樣的教育思維你覺得真的是勢必要學的學的更新的"},{"start":8468.426,"end":8492.074,"text":"我首先要感謝委員的提醒但是委員剛才所提的自由是要學習的校園的民主包括學生的權益上怎麼樣去維護這事實上都是我們在這一次的校園手機的一個實施要點裡面目前的草案整個規劃方向那也感謝委員這麼在"},{"start":8493.394,"end":8514.439,"text":"制定的過程也提供了許多的一些寶貴的意見所以我們過去原來是想說特別高中職學生他確實是一個某種程度他也是一個我們希望給你在學習權益包含他的學習方式課程都不一樣應該有更大的一些空間所以我們在這一個"},{"start":8518.078,"end":8538.811,"text":"學校老師在制定了一個管理的一個要點裡面是包含學校老師家長團家長的代表跟學生的代表我們當時沒有訂定明確的學生的代表比例是想說學校本來就是剛才委員所關心的校園民主化的過程許多的這些這些權益的一個維護包括"},{"start":8539.631,"end":8554.077,"text":"你我人我之間的一些前一界線怎麼樣去應該要有充分的一些表達讓他們有充分的表達意見結束以後才提校務會議當時的起心動念也是對高中生的一個尊重但是後來"},{"start":8555.117,"end":8578.714,"text":"學生團體包括委員在關心說能不能把學生實質的提升到三分之一我們教育部在這個要點也就從善如流因為確保因為我們原來是想說在民主的一個討論過程讓學校有更多的一些跟老師學生透過討論的過程我們不要去定一個三分之一"},{"start":8579.864,"end":8599.536,"text":"如果他們討論過程是學生可以有二溫之一的代表我們總是希望在一個校園的一個政策他確實政策制定他需要有一個這個法治化民主的一個精神能夠展現所以我想委員所關心的正是我們教育部一直但是"},{"start":8601.336,"end":8625.886,"text":"當時確實有一些要點並沒有凸顯這個不同教育階段上雖然我們精神是這樣但是我們沒有在明文上把它更清楚的展現出來可能也會這樣而造成地方在執行上許多不必要的一些爭議或者困擾我們也在這次的預告裡面也都做了一些調整做了這樣的一個補充"},{"start":8629.447,"end":8632.59,"text":"那我想再來要跟部長談的是說因為我們教育部從去年就開始推動公立幼兒園評價課後評價的課後跟寒暑假實施延長照顧服務"},{"start":8646.44,"end":8669.666,"text":"這個政策真的是我們公幼教育的福音特別是去年寒假開辦率就有達到88.4%比前一年的同期成長了17.6%而且我們去年7月底教育部也開始補助家智照顧服務人力來減輕幼兒園的外聘人力的壓力"},{"start":8670.606,"end":8691.268,"text":"那不過當這個公幼課後 留院已經是常態之後我們就開始浮現照顧人力不足的問題了近期來就有一些幼教團體在反映說不管園所的規模大小如何每一個園所只能申請一名家事照顧服務人力"},{"start":8691.889,"end":8713.527,"text":"那這個對留遠的人數比較多的學校來講確實人力就不足那還有幼教團體也反映說有不少學校他開始讓家智的照顧人力來帶班雖然是課後的人力那他們被要求說早上就要去上班那做的工作也幾乎跟正職差不多一樣"},{"start":8715.809,"end":8739.528,"text":"而且家智照顧人力他們也說他們有些人也有教保員的資格可是他們跟教保員他們就沒有教保費2000塊的補助久而久之人員之間的工作內容跟責任等於是沒有差別可是薪資卻有落差在職場上就有一些職場上的互相職業歧視的問題"},{"start":8741.349,"end":8766.26,"text":"那另外就說這個家智照顧服務人員他經費是國教署來補助那可是這個新版的才化法通過之後那從中央拿走三千多億到地方去那中央的經費減少後那這些經費到底有沒有著落就是說未來經費會不會補助到地方那當然這些家智照顧服務人員會擔心那再來就是說地方願不願意"},{"start":8766.9,"end":8782.81,"text":"自己來維持這筆人事經費那當公幼的客流成為常態之後如果經費充滿不確定性那這些人力又怎麼會願意留下來那另外就是說我們偏向的狀況又是更加的困難"},{"start":8783.37,"end":8809.837,"text":"因為偏鄉的小校人數真的很少所以他們無法申請所謂的加制人力等於是教保的服務人員他從早上七八點工作要忙到晚上六七點真的沒有人力可以替換來喘一口氣本席上述提到這些問題首先想要請問教部到底有沒有規劃我們依照學校的規模來加制來增加"},{"start":8811.858,"end":8839.449,"text":"家事人力的這個緣額那還有就是說家事人力可以帶班嗎另外就是說他跟正職的工作到底怎麼界定區分 部長謝謝委員關心我們這個對年輕家庭的一些支持的力量那我也利用這個機會要感謝全國的這些公立幼稚園學校負責的這個幼稚園因為我們目前從現在已經有達到95%"},{"start":8841.21,"end":8855.529,"text":"原來去年還八十幾也就是說大部分的公幼都已經協助看到年輕家庭他們在小孩照顧跟工作職場上實現的需要所以他們這一課後的一個延長照顧已經達到95%以上"},{"start":8858.092,"end":8871.924,"text":"那委員所關心的怎麼樣這個增加一些客戶的照顧照顧的這些人我們目前也增加了全國也增加了500多位但是屬於報酬或者許多的上課的這個"},{"start":8874.807,"end":8899.169,"text":"這個運作跟這個對幼兒的照顧的那些時間怎麼樣我想我們再來跟地方政府有一個更了解實際上的需求看怎麼樣儘管有一個這一個所謂的才化法包含地方的一個特殊性我們還是希望跟中央跟地方合作看怎麼樣來能夠對年輕家庭有一個更多的一些支持的力量我想這我們來努力"},{"start":8900.39,"end":8922.966,"text":"現在就是因為財化法的關係,所以這筆錢,國教署是還可以一直support地方嗎?目前,所以這個就是要跟地方來看,我們怎麼透過合作,地方如果財化好,這個經費到地方,地方當然也對年輕家庭的一個照顧,我相信地方政府也都會樂於來,這個承接更多的責任,我想,我們來努力。"},{"start":8925.049,"end":8944.321,"text":"那最後想要跟您談的就是說這個偏鄉地區學校發展教育發展條例從2017年開始就計算這個9任年份那連續服務滿8年就是等於說從今年的12月起我們就要針對第一批符合資格的來發放9任獎金那好"},{"start":8944.801,"end":8958.098,"text":"現在現在就偏遠地區學校教師的9月份獎金它裡頭有規定喔就是說在同一所學校連續服務滿8年那表現優良者就會發獎金那可是現在就重點來了有現場教師在反映"},{"start":8960.16,"end":8988.602,"text":"就要在同一所學校任職確實有一些難度像是戴老師啊他可能是非自願離開學校因為時間高又要離開可是他又到其他的偏鄉去服務可是你如果按照都在偏鄉地區服務可是我按照你的規定好像又不能因為你要在同一所學校所以他就領不到這個九份獎金那這樣子的話他在偏鄉服務的意願就當然會降低因為這要鼓勵他在偏鄉服務嘛那另外"},{"start":8990.423,"end":9013.129,"text":"你們有制定一個所謂的偏遠地區學校校長教師九任獎金發起相關疑義的問答集有這個問答集那裡面有提到說偏遠地區學校的教師跟後用校長如果商界到教育局那因為沒有實際服務在偏鄉所以這個不得採進年資可是借到通常都是馬士公務需求"},{"start":9014.569,"end":9038.238,"text":"這個教師的職缺他還是在原學校假設有一個老師在偏鄉服務了七年那可是他被介紹到教育局一年那結果他因為這樣子他就沒辦法領到九任獎金而且我們來看九任獎金這個母法就是偏遠地區學校教育發展條例的第21條"},{"start":9039.699,"end":9068.718,"text":"他並沒有說要在同一所學校裡面他並沒有這樣講是我們的解釋我們的辦法是這樣規定所以想要請教部長說可不可以來研議重寬認定這個在偏遠地區學校服務的年資不要用同一所學校為限那還有就是說如果可不可以研議說來商界到教育局服務的這些年資也納入九任獎金的年資裡頭各位委員報告謝謝委員關心偏鄉老師的一些照顧"},{"start":9069.899,"end":9085.207,"text":"那確實我們也看到這個問題就老師這個部分因為這個偏鄉學校他可能已經老師已經補滿了或者他可能因為因應駕回來了就沒有代理的一個人力上的需求那這樣的因為類似這樣一個情況他可能因為這樣離開這個學校假學校"},{"start":9092.861,"end":9116.766,"text":"以學校去偏鄉的學校服務這個年資我們目前的辦法我們是務實的會同意來累加只要都在偏鄉偏鄉是可以累加的不是因為他個人的一些因素不是個人的因素等於說因為這一個老師他的缺已經沒有了所以他不能再當代理老師所以他必須要離開"},{"start":9119.947,"end":9144.517,"text":"但是他離開的學校還是在偏鄉所以這個年制是可以的那第二個就是有關比如說某一個主任或者校長他可能在原來這個學校任教已經滿六年或者七年然後因為他的一個專業或者因為他的一些特殊的專長需要地方縣市政府來借調可能一年兩年"},{"start":9145.318,"end":9153.438,"text":"那這個部分我們是可以來跟地方來談就是說我們按比例比如說他實際在當老師或是當主任校長有六年"},{"start":9154.827,"end":9175.096,"text":"他的缺還是在這一個學校之中這一年被調到那這一個我們也許就可以給八分之七的這樣的一個就是說他的缺還是在我想這個我們都可以來跟地方建立共識然後對偏鄉的老師的權益能夠給以這一個支持大概做好謝謝謝謝部長這個很善意的回應謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":9180.532,"end":9190.801,"text":"謝謝林怡瑾召委諮詢 官員請回座接下來我們在羅廷偉委員之後 我們會休息五分鐘那我們接著有請張雅玲委員諮詢謝謝主席 我們有請部長有請部長備諮詢 謝謝"},{"start":9205.131,"end":9233.486,"text":"部長好 首先我還是要針對這個台大性平事件來請教部長因為我想部長應該非常清楚我非常關心這個議題然後從一開始其實就一直我不停的在關切這件事情那這次之所以引發這麼多的爭議我認為教育部處理的速度太慢了那我也認為教育部作為一個最高的性平主管機關應該要樹立這個典範所以我認為我們還有精進的空間不曉得我這樣子說 部長您認同嗎"},{"start":9235.151,"end":9261.417,"text":"我想我同意委員的一個說法確實教育部在這裡邊怎麼樣責成台大有更積極的一些作為在對學生權益的維護包含事後對受傷害的這些學生的一個更多的一些心理或者這些輔導上的一些支持力量我想"},{"start":9263.037,"end":9292.185,"text":"確實台大是可以有精進的空間好 我想不只是教育不只是台大了包含是教育部的部分都還有精進的空間所以我想接下來我就要來跟在這件事情上面我覺得我們有一些要來檢討的地方但目前我們知道就是葉刺現在已經請假了準備要調查所以我想要知道性評會已經正式立案調查那可不可以簡單說明一下目前的一個調查進度我們什麼時候可以有一個調查結果"},{"start":9294.315,"end":9309.694,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個性評會確實在上個禮拜五已經召開然後也業次這個應該接受這個也組成專案應該調查所以業次在星期二星期一的一個會議決議"},{"start":9311.576,"end":9326.115,"text":"然後這個會議的一個結果結議的結果也讓信憑的委員都看過了他們也等於說確定會議的一個記錄所以現在的一個調查小組也正式在明天會議"},{"start":9327.716,"end":9354.932,"text":"下禮拜一就會有調查小組 下禮拜一就會召開第一次的會議然後來進行調查所以在這個調查期間我們希望這一個為了沒問題我想了解一下我知道部長大家說什麼但是我想要知道我想現在我們還是回到現實上面我們可以處理的事情就是說現在下禮拜一會有調查小組那有沒有什麼時間預估會完成調查結果呢因為我希望這個結果是可以越快越好啦"},{"start":9356.624,"end":9382.521,"text":"是我們現在的教育部的一個立場也是希望越快越好因為某種程度這個調查期間對夜市它相當程度它也是它事實上也是相當我想這個還是回到學生啦從學生的角度還有大家現在關切的就是說這件事情到底有沒有影響到學生的部分所以我們還是回到就是說為什麼他希望我希望他可以盡快出來因為我們還是要保障的是這個學生是"},{"start":9383.581,"end":9403.628,"text":"是這個學生所以重點我們應該是放在這個學生身上所以我想知道我們現在有沒有一個規劃就是希望什麼時候會有一個調查結果呢因為在信憑法的規定大概是兩個月要完成嘛必要時刻延長兩次每次不得預一個月但我知道今天這個情況可能不一定適用所以我想要知道你們現在有沒有抓了一個時間點希望什麼時候可以得到這個提出"},{"start":9404.008,"end":9427.581,"text":"基本上就是陳委員所講因為涉及到政務官我們希望這個能夠在這個公平公正的一個不受干擾的情況下他能夠在一個月裡面能夠有這一個完整的一個調查報告出來好了解那我也想再請問一下就是說到底現在這個學生我們台大有沒有提供給他這些相關的心理輔導的資源呢"},{"start":9430.573,"end":9456.83,"text":"根據性平法我們應該是要提供的這個學生基本上是長期受到輔導中心在協助的對象因為他本身就有一些所以在這次的事件之後我想我們是有在多給嗎還有在多給是不是有在多給一些支持持續上在他們的輔導心理師都有在持續提供心理智商的服務"},{"start":9457.472,"end":9475.49,"text":"OK 好 那我也想要了解就是說因為在這一次我們可以看見整個教育部我認為是性平意識不足所以我想請教我們現在到底對我們不理人員有沒有進行一個常態的性平的教育訓練呢"},{"start":9478.339,"end":9487.677,"text":"我想謝謝委員提醒確實我們在這個整個案件裡邊我們也在深切的檢討我們整個行政的一個過程裡邊到底"},{"start":9489.994,"end":9505.666,"text":"的疏漏在哪裡也希望能夠導正能夠強化這個整個機制希望這個事件不會再發生我想這是屬於我們內部那當然包含性平的一個意思或者課程或者我們教育部過去是一個主要的主管機關但是我們如果同仁在這個部分是不足的我們怎麼樣去增能我想這個確實是我們要努力的"},{"start":9515.313,"end":9541.431,"text":"好 我想 我剛剛的問題就是說在現在我們到底有沒有定期做這件事情在教育部裡面因為我們會有要求學校老師要定期的去回訓嘛那我們自己到底對部裡的人員有沒有做這些要求呢有 我們人事單位每年都固定辦理這個員工的培訓尤其在最近的這個性平法 性攻法 性殺法修正之後有很多新的規定以及當中的一個法的差異其實做了蠻多詳細的說明"},{"start":9543.072,"end":9562.903,"text":"而且邀請的講師都是我們性評會裡頭非常有經驗的學者專家那我們有沒有一些相關的評估機制呢看這個成效呢應該 我們都有填那個回饋的問卷那我們看一下回饋的問卷好不好提供給我一下回饋問卷還有這個結果好不好再來大概一個禮拜一之內應該可以提供吧"},{"start":9564.895,"end":9577.193,"text":"好 我們請我們的人事處來協助 謝謝好 那我想問因為剛剛是講說我們定期有做這件事情嗎但是這件事情就顯示是不足的應該要再增能對不對所以這個增能的部分我們有相關的計畫"},{"start":9578.991,"end":9580.572,"text":"我們會整體來看我們要怎麼樣哪一個地方是疏漏我們就先從那一個地方來補強"},{"start":9610.352,"end":9632.234,"text":"有 有 確定有有嗎 好喔 那我想問一下那目前就是因為承辦有洩漏個資的這個問題嘛那我們現在看到承辦好像現在已經有被懲處嘛 對不對但是我想問一下 那請問一下司長學特司司長吳林輝是否也應該對這件事情負起一些監督部座的責任呢因為好像我現在沒有看到您的部分這樣子"},{"start":9632.734,"end":9652.654,"text":"跟委員報告事實上吳市長他也自行處分也他自行處分也有處分是不是好喔那我想因為其實雪特斯最重要啦因為他就是姓平事件最重要的教育主管機關可是這次的事件我覺得會打擊我們基層很大的信心所以我們必須要採取更積極的作為好那接下來還有就是說"},{"start":9654.742,"end":9669.171,"text":"我認為因為這一次的個資保護的洩漏事件除了我們懲處之外我們在目前應該要再加強我們個資保護的制度是不是有更嚴謹的一個資料管理流程或者是加強的資安保護個資保護的一個訓練好這個部分是"},{"start":9672.253,"end":9700.341,"text":"我的第二個訴求那第三個部分呢我覺得在這次的事件上面我覺得教育部也應該要這樣建立相對應的一個問責機制來確保未來我們可以更謹慎的來處理性平與各自的相關事務那關於這三點我們施律可以提出相關的精進計畫或檢討報告因為我認為不是只有對立法委員要交代清楚最重要是我們要對社會而且我們也要讓學生很清楚的知道我們是如何的應對這件事情"},{"start":9702.261,"end":9709.723,"text":"讓未來這樣子的事情不要再發生這個部分部長可以承諾我嗎謝謝委員提醒確實我們也因為針對這個案這個事件我們內部已經在內控內機的這個部分做了一些調整流程過去可能當事人本以這個分層負責他就直接回應這個等於說那個頭頭陳情人"},{"start":9726.047,"end":9749.419,"text":"那我們現在就是說他的程序裡面加一個就是科長他一定要整個看過檢視然後這個文才可以出去譬如說我們加強了這個內控內積的這樣的一個程序希望能夠遵循我們性評法所有的規定而不要讓所有的關心這個性評工作或者直接的特別在這個受傷害的人這一個"},{"start":9750.86,"end":9771.474,"text":"第二次再受傷害這次的再受傷害所以是相關的檢討報告還有剛剛有提到就是說我們在各自的保護上面多加一個層級那這些是不是也都可以提供給大概什麼時候可以提供給我們辦公室呢大概什麼時候我想我們會後就提供檢討報告嗎我是說全部的整個機制的檢討報告會後就可以提供"},{"start":9772.131,"end":9799.342,"text":"因為先前已經有內部做一個檢討而且也強化了相關人員的培訓好 那就是這個會後提供給我那我最後一件事情我想請教於台大這件事情其實我們一直不停的要關心最關鍵的問題其實還是在台大那我知道部長其實也都已經發了公文一直不停的在跟台大做溝通但是顯然台大還是認為他的處置沒有問題那接下來我們到底該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":9804.437,"end":9823.6,"text":"各位報告我們性評會已經成立了一個專案的小組會協助我們從監察院的糾正文從這個法院的起訴書重新檢視學校處理流程有沒有缺漏如果當中有涉及到重大為師的部分我們會去評估是不是需要做重啟調查那個專案小組會再處理"},{"start":9824.941,"end":9839.688,"text":"所以專業報告現在已經成立了那我們什麼時候可以有下一波的進度呢我想我們應該會努力在一個月內把整個審視的過程對布里頭後續如何督導學校來改善會提出一個完整的評估的建議"},{"start":9840.188,"end":9848.371,"text":"所以一個月這個外部的調查小組就會提供我們這樣子的一個結果然後如果他們認為裡面有輸入我們就會重啟調查對不對是會由部的性評會來調查還是由台大"},{"start":9855.353,"end":9871.665,"text":"跟我們報告目前這一個是縣評會部的縣評會做成的一個決議第一個決議就是這樣所以我們因為整個審視那當然如果沒有我們這一個如果台大有疏漏我們當然要一定要重啟調查這是無庸置疑的對對對我是說到底是誰會來重啟這個調查"},{"start":9876.582,"end":9891.961,"text":"目前我們是教育部裡邊的信聘會裡邊組成這個調查小組這個調查小組是現在來看流程有沒有缺失嘛對不對看完缺失就覺得有問題之後就要重啟調查嘛那是誰會來重啟這個調查呢如果有疏漏的話"},{"start":9893.339,"end":9914.668,"text":"根委員報告 依照性評法這一個還是學校性評會的權責當然如果將來真的需要重啟調查我們會對於調查小組的成員提供建議希望他另組而不是原來的因為我要再為什麼要確認這一點就是我怕到時候的結果如果我們沒有我們因為其實我想市長也非常清楚民間一直在講我們很多的性評準"},{"start":9916.408,"end":9938.598,"text":"性平的這個調查資料庫裡面其實很多人都不斷有更新新的性平意識所以這件事情會非常非常的重要那這件事情我也會持續的追下去那再來就是還是回到一下行動載具這件事情那這也是最近很多學生包含我之前也有幫我們的學生來跟教育部開一個協調會那學生其實非常強調一個重點"},{"start":9940.459,"end":9968.56,"text":"那我也想問一下教育部對於這件事情的看法就是說他們是希望可以建立一個比照服役委員會的規範建立一個諮詢委員會來確保他們的聲音可以被聽見那這個其實已經服役委員會其實已經行駛多年了那這個學生其實也蠻習慣那當天是說會帶回去討論那我不曉得說現在已經一個多禮拜了我們有沒有討論那是不是也可以來簡單說明一下"},{"start":9971.237,"end":9977.565,"text":"公文報告我們確實在因為這個草案目前在預告所以我們6月1號還有一個實體跟線上我們也希望能夠廣收這個廣聽這個高中時學生他們的一些意見那會後我們會把委員的意見裡面一併"},{"start":9989.72,"end":10015.94,"text":"都納入這個我們草案裡面看怎麼樣去做一些必要的一些條件我想問一下因為其實學生不管是之前我們跟部長在提這件事情或者是當天我們開協調會或是今天早上學生開記者會其實都蠻在乎的就是他們的聲音會不會被聽見在學校裡面不是只有這一次教育部的這個會議是學校裡面所以他們非常希望可以以服役委員會的方式來進行那這個部分部的態度到底是什麼呢"},{"start":10018.482,"end":10038.281,"text":"因為這個我覺得是學生非常非常堅持的一個部分是誰要來跟委員說明那因為我們這次收集的是參採各方意見如果在後面如果學生的整個意見這個方面是非常強烈那我們就會慎重考慮把它做這樣子版本的一個做調整"},{"start":10039.161,"end":10056.993,"text":"所以你的意思我可以解讀為是你們是有意願接受的對嗎其實跟委員說明一下我們目前其實是參採因為這個是一個社會溝通的過程所以我們必須參採各方的意見之後我們去做這樣子的我懂我的意思"},{"start":10057.193,"end":10069.879,"text":"我的意思是說 因為其實我們都可以聽到學生非常在乎這一怕嘛這件事情嘛那當然在很多就是說到底要不要收手機這裡面還有很多的爭議但是在這個他們希望在學校裡面他們可以用這種方式來進行那這樣子我這樣問好了如果我們最後在6月1號開完會學生都極力要求這一個所以教育部就會支持嗎"},{"start":10078.302,"end":10097.07,"text":"登委員報告那我們會跟現場執行面在做一些協商之後會想辦法把這樣子的一個訴求納入原則內好 了解 謝謝謝謝 謝謝司長那我最後快快問再耽誤一點點時間我本來其實很想問學生輔導法但我今天可能時間不太夠但我先問體育署"},{"start":10106.834,"end":10133.129,"text":"好 體育署我想不管我們過去一直不停的在講就是如何的展現體育署會監督我們的單項協會那這個上個月 三月的時候呢全這個 金週刊呢其實也專題報導民間對於體育署讓體育改革後的國體法修法其實都還是有很大的疑慮就是特別針對於單項協會這件事情因為過去我們看一看到冰球協會有暗抗補助款"},{"start":10134.289,"end":10150.22,"text":"或是足协有福报过高的转播费甚至去年我处理的极箭事件极箭协会等等的事件其实我都知道体育署有进行调查那我们也提出了组决议希望他可以公告但是呢体育署给我的回复呢还是说会把这个惩处放在访评"},{"start":10150.82,"end":10166.239,"text":"報告當中他還是不是放在一個公告的地方讓民眾知道體育署的確是有在監督的那我想問一下這一件事情我們還是希望可以放到公告的地方到底可不可以呢"},{"start":10166.994,"end":10191.341,"text":"報告委員這部分我想因為它本身如果公告的話算是一個行政法所以這樣子的部分必須要有法源的依據那我是建議委員我們會後我們是不是來努力看看我們針對整個要如果要在國體法去修法要做公佈這件事情我們從它的適宜性原則比例整個最小侵害性還有它整個的是不是達到它的目的公義性等等我們做評估我們來評估看看說未來我們來做這個修法"},{"start":10193.902,"end":10213.97,"text":"因為沒有這個修法我們的確沒有辦法直接公佈在網站上所以這件事情是你們要再跟你們自己的法務單位還是要跟法務部這邊也要再討論嗎目前我們知道是一定要修法只是說要不要這個修法的過程要去做評估這件事情接下來我會來跟委員這邊在做討論我們事實的如果真的有必要我們就來做啟動"},{"start":10215.114,"end":10226.577,"text":"好 那這個我們就盡快約好不好因為這件事情我覺得如果接下來我們九月就要掛牌了那這個是一直以來長期民間關心非常重要的議題好 謝謝 謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢 官員請回座我們接下來請伍麗華委員質詢謝謝主席 有請部長"},{"start":10243.666,"end":10272.716,"text":"有請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好部長在原教法就是原住民族教育法之下呢有提到要成立原住民族學校但是我看到蔡英文總統2016年上任之後她其實政見裡面有提到要做原住民族學校"},{"start":10273.576,"end":10289.149,"text":"那接續呢賴清德總統他去年520他的政見當中也有被揭露說提到要建立雙軌的原住民教育體系那他是提到說要以"},{"start":10290.168,"end":10308.471,"text":"原住民的文化與原知識體系為核心來推動原住民族學校可是經歷這麼長的時間在立法院也曾經有提案也有排審但是都不了了之那最主要的原因就是"},{"start":10309.232,"end":10322.78,"text":"大家對於什麼是原住民族學校原住民族學校要怎麼做沒有一個定見沒有共識所以呢我很高興今天就是看到教育部的解凍書面報告有提到規劃"},{"start":10326.002,"end":10354.211,"text":"台灣原住民族學校制度規劃之研究整合型研究計畫那特別提到從國際趨勢學校型態的運作課程與教學設計師資的培育教材的發展以及校長培訓等等議題我覺得計畫案很重要那這個部分可以幫助我們去釐清但是我也是要提到就是說我另外有兩個要求"},{"start":10355.154,"end":10360.824,"text":"就是原住民族實驗學校至今已經幾十所了"},{"start":10361.995,"end":10390.274,"text":"國小國中現在甚至已經要有高中的原住民族實驗學校了那我的意思是說2016年開始補助推動到明年就屆滿10年而且呢辦法裡面補助實驗學校是補助12年那但是補助幾年這個還不是重點而是說到底這些原住民實驗學校都已經從國小國中長到高中"},{"start":10393.376,"end":10412.81,"text":"他的定位到底在哪裡所以我覺得這個部分也希望部長您可以編列經費這個計畫很重要也要來做那再來呢就是這一些年我們實驗學校有各種不同的實驗理念做法"},{"start":10414.17,"end":10427.618,"text":"開發出各式各樣的課程 教材 教法但是有沒有可能也用計畫案要去計畫 去研究看看他們這一些課程的模組"},{"start":10428.598,"end":10436.142,"text":"到底有什麼地方是可以讓大家互相看到哪一種做法有什麼優點有什麼缺點應該怎麼做我認為這一些都應該要比照就是來做一個整合型的研究計畫部長您同意嗎"},{"start":10447.318,"end":10469.9,"text":"部長您同意嗎我完全同意委員的說法原住民族他的文化的多樣性跟他的整個人才的一個培育能夠怎麼樣讓凸顯他的一個價值我想這都是原民會跟教育部共同在努力那剛才委員所關心的原住民族學校制度這一個基本上是"},{"start":10471.542,"end":10485.996,"text":"延民會在跟國教院上的一些合作我們也非常希望能夠理出一個更好的一些模式那目前教育部在原住民的實驗學校裡面國中小有48所"},{"start":10487.177,"end":10514.073,"text":"那確實我們這些年來也對這個原住民教育我想委員也長期關心像我也來到520到現在去八蘭花學校裡面也去看了這原住民學校這個學校裡面確實他們展現了不管不僅在原住民民族文化上的保留結合現有的課程永續校園包含國際教育都做得非常好所以我們也一直期待這一個"},{"start":10515.074,"end":10532.726,"text":"第一所的這個實驗原住民的實驗學校能夠在八蘭花裡面就先能夠成立那麼國教署在這個部分也全力的在支持希望能夠朝那個方向能夠來讓原住民在整個教育的一個銜接上"},{"start":10533.887,"end":10556.277,"text":"謝謝部長所以部長的意思是說願意來支持我剛才所講的不僅僅是原住民族學校制度的研究計劃案來支持原住民族這些實驗學校明年即將屆滿10年那麼它的何去何從這個部分也要成立一個計劃案再來就是這些年"},{"start":10556.937,"end":10576.085,"text":"各個學校所研發的這些課程教材教法也希望有一個計劃案能夠去做一個整合分析這樣可以嗎我跟委員報告是可以的那就謝謝因為課程我們現在有很多的這些每年都有在爭研究院的一個教材"},{"start":10577.346,"end":10589.954,"text":"我希望有一個整合性的研究方案我衝個十秒一下 委員剛才講的民族學校的部分現在是園民會的權責那正跟國教院就一些學術上的合作這個計畫剛剛部長有表達樂觀其成也會到辦公室做說明至於教育部的權責48所實驗學校的部分剛剛部長有特別講到像八南華這邊很有誠的學校我們會從旁就這48校所進行的這過往"},{"start":10605.804,"end":10634.533,"text":"實驗的情形就一些整理這個我們也會跟國教院來合作那就委託國教院我希望能夠做這些計劃案好不好因為院長也在這邊那第二個部分我也要來跟部長就是來做一個建議其實我在2016年就是我離開學校的最後一年我有跟當時的部長有去做一個建言我說因為我們已經在推動民主教育"},{"start":10635.563,"end":10654.09,"text":"而且是全面的推展 園民會教育部都非常的給力可是我們的學習場域像我們這些校舍都是早期1960 1970 1980年代的這一些非常樣板一致的這種校舍"},{"start":10654.87,"end":10673.215,"text":"所以呢在推動民族教育很重要的就是文化學習長育所以特別希望能夠推動一個原住民學校的新校園運動那這個是一個中長期計畫106到110已經結束那110到114也就是到今年呢它的名稱叫做"},{"start":10673.955,"end":10697.141,"text":"營造原住民族文化學習場域計畫就是將課程教學結合到學校場域那提供各個學校可以來申請經費但是我今天要講的是因為它過去補助的對象是原住民重點學校以及非原住民重點學校要原民學生達70人以上的都會學校那這個部分"},{"start":10698.061,"end":10711.54,"text":"我在想因為這八年來大概幾乎所有的學校都有來申請可是我們來看一下這些都會區的學校像新北市我們可以看得到街道的學校學生如果要達到70人以上"},{"start":10713.979,"end":10733.592,"text":"沒有幾個學校符合就兩間三間在我們的六都幾乎都是如此可是有沒有學校想要去為他們的原住民孩子以及非原住民孩子在學校能夠去建置這樣的一個文化學校長育有的"},{"start":10734.272,"end":10752.025,"text":"所以呢 依然有學校有這個心 他們會來跟我們澄清說教育部 國教署 能不能夠也提供他們一些經費那我很贊同的原因是 我們一直談全民原教 全民原教"},{"start":10753.462,"end":10774.398,"text":"原住民族教育法的對象不是原住民而已是全體國民所以這樣的一個訴求我認為非常的合理那部長你覺得如果未來115年度開始新一期的中長城計畫能不能夠去納入所有的學校"},{"start":10776.854,"end":10800.835,"text":"我想感謝委員的這個提醒確實我完全同意委員所提的我們這個台灣的可貴就是來自於多元族群多元文化它的美就是因為大家不一樣然後能夠彼此認識透過認識理解欣賞然後甚至能夠有一些推廣"},{"start":10801.556,"end":10814.526,"text":"那原住民學校如果我們一般的學生學校裡邊都會的學校裡邊他對原住民教育或者文化上的推動我想我們會來編列一些相關的行為我覺得可以用集聚學生數的集聚來協助這個我們的"},{"start":10820.29,"end":10837.221,"text":"謝謝 謝謝部長那最後一個問題就是關於大家很關心的校事會議部長您先看一下前陣子我們幾個委員處理台東的一個學前特幼班的兒虐案那調查報告已經出來了那是"},{"start":10838.862,"end":10857.438,"text":"確有歧視那整個處置也都完畢我只是要請您看一下這個是法定代理人也就是家長他拿到的調查報告六頁啦你看一下馬承這個樣子家長說他完全不知道孩子到底發生了什麼事"},{"start":10859.235,"end":10881.851,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們也要約束規範一下啦我怎麼知道他到底碼的是不是真的需要碼的我想這個部分您了解一下那為什麼我要提到這個問題因為我們的幼教輔導管教系統在處理這些案件其實也有人詬病說"},{"start":10883.494,"end":10905.192,"text":"會造成兩種極端就是真正不適應的教師就像剛才這個碼的六張這個報告得不到真相那也有一些是無辜的他可能遭到濫訴覺得身心俱疲那我們來看一下國小的校安通報關於師生管教衝突"},{"start":10907.424,"end":10935.312,"text":"110年2171件111年成長到2524件我要特別講112年4120件我還沒看到113年的資料數據但是這樣的一個成長的比率實在是很驚人所以為什麼很多人關心這件事情那我們來看一下為什麼會這樣當然我們可以理解"},{"start":10936.553,"end":10960.99,"text":"公立學校教室被調查的流程我們都知道有的是家長陳情就做校方通報有的是家長直接跟教育局投訴那他有他的流程現在重點是到了校事會議的時候我們很多的學校會感到很困擾那為什麼會困擾因為就是爛數"},{"start":10962.762,"end":10964.165,"text":"他會覺得可能費時費錢"},{"start":10967.25,"end":10993.427,"text":"那這個部分我有看到教育部有回應教育部說113年修正的高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或之前辦法有明定了已經有寫了就是說可以不受理的事項例如非屬性平肢體霸凌的這種是一定要受理的但是有很多是沒有具體內容有很多是匿名卷舉"},{"start":10995.549,"end":11013.977,"text":"像這種的當然學校可以不受理可是我要跟部長報告的就是說幾乎全部都會成案因為就像我這種民意代表地方的議員他很怕上媒體然後很怕民代施壓關切"},{"start":11015.859,"end":11038.062,"text":"所以乾脆通通受理 通通懲案 學校不敢負擔其責任然後在這個當中 他要學校的校事會議 校長 家長的代表行政人員代表 學校教師代表 一個是公正人士也就是說五位當中 他只會評五位 因為每一個都要錢嘛"},{"start":11038.904,"end":11047.702,"text":"學校還要負擔那個給出席費用所以呢他通常就是盡量五個人三個人那這當中四個人"},{"start":11048.976,"end":11071.653,"text":"我們原本期待校士會議是中立的可是我剛剛講的校長家長的代表行政人員學校教師會本來我們期待他們中立但是他們不敢中立而且他們的關係很緊密所以我講這些只是說其實很多很多在意的只是什麼它的核心是什麼就是不希望爛訴"},{"start":11073.274,"end":11088.327,"text":"不希望冤枉然後呢 不希望造成學校的一個很大的行政負擔或心理的壓力我想那個核心是在這個地方因為太多的投訴會說長太高這個不適合教幼兒園的老師"},{"start":11094.982,"end":11111.916,"text":"校方也不知道到底要呈案還是不呈案或者是說控訴某個老師他不教孩子唱國歌之類的那對學校來講到底呈案不呈案到底是不是具體的內容這個很辛苦所以我在這邊就是提到"},{"start":11112.637,"end":11132.231,"text":"我的訴求就是說針對目前教師這一些校事會議的投訴校事會議受理案件的樣態那教育部是不是應該可以做一個相關統計然後做一個處遇指引的手冊那我先請教一下部長有沒有做過這個相關的統計署長"},{"start":11135.925,"end":11153.052,"text":"我簡單說明一下兩件事第一個新的解併辦法它是因應當時不當管教走一條路霸凌走一條路現場不堪起擾走不會完所以把它合併之後獲得大家的認同"},{"start":11153.832,"end":11171.794,"text":"那接著是學校內怎麼讓這件事其實一個案件到底走考核還走解聘他本來就已經在做只是整合在這個解聘辦法內所以剛剛委員有看到受不受理以及決定走考核或決定走"},{"start":11172.735,"end":11192.97,"text":"停解聘都在那個辦法內因此他前端做案件的整合不要有多個委員會在終端做剛才講的處置上可以由學校決定只要走考核就好不用整理調查小組所以整套如果嚴謹的執行是去解決以往來的不利至於您剛才提到現行"},{"start":11194.051,"end":11211.747,"text":"這個去年4月19號運作至今超過一年部長也要求我們可以做一個檢視是這個目前在做整理中好謝謝好那很好我就是希望說不要造成校方的一個困擾那最好就是有已經走了一年了那有相關的統計樣態的一個分類處遇的指引原則畢竟"},{"start":11216.992,"end":11237.024,"text":"孩子是我們最重要的有快樂的老師才有快樂的孩子那我覺得學校畢竟是我們學校的老師是學校最重要的資產我們都是要來服務我們的孩子所以我想這個部分希望說能夠去重視爛素這樣的一個狀態那怎麼樣去改善這個才是一個我們最關切的部分"},{"start":11243.228,"end":11253.956,"text":"那在這邊就謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝吳立華委員的質詢 官員請回座我們接下來有請羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員質詢羅廷偉委員"},{"start":11273.649,"end":11283.431,"text":"好部長辛苦了部長你還記得夜光天使嗎還記得嗎沒關係不記得可以講我不會考試慢慢來我等你沒關係幫忙做課後的一個輔導到晚上"},{"start":11300.424,"end":11318.145,"text":"不好意思聲音可能要大聲一點麥克風可能沒有對到夜光天使點燈專案計畫我想在97年9月起呢課後照顧延伸至夜間我們在推動這個國小的辦理那目前我們一直在延伸那我也有跟5月27號"},{"start":11319.887,"end":11345.043,"text":"我們在去年的時候部長就職沒多久我就有向你爭取要事辦延伸至國中夜間國小的寒暑假那時候非常感謝你也有持續的承諾幫我們那也變成台中市是第一個事辦那目前呢在事辦的期間113年7月1日到114年7月31日我們共事辦了三所國中一所國小"},{"start":11345.851,"end":11365.558,"text":"育嬰、市育、東風以及樂業國小試辦的狀況都不錯那我們也有稍微去詢問他們的一個試辦意願願不願意繼續續辦那部長想跟你請問一下是否願意支持夜光天使繼續試辦延伸至國中的一個夜間教育政策"},{"start":11366.981,"end":11386.681,"text":"謝謝委員關心國中生的一個學習成長的一個空間那因為從委員剛才所提的我們確實感謝委員的關心然後成校學校也有認為他的一個一定的效益我們這國教署會跟台中市政府有一個後續的一個看怎麼樣來能夠讓這個計畫能夠繼續能夠延續這樣子我先講喔"},{"start":11391.105,"end":11406.28,"text":"首次試辦國中夜間就獲得不錯的評價不管是家長端學生端教師學校這個部分我們也有去詢問所以基本上第一我們問到三所國中都有意願要繼續續辦"},{"start":11408.699,"end":11429.647,"text":"這一點我要先帶為他們來轉達當然國小的部分他們說沒有需求那我也要跟您報告就國小這部分因為第一他們的夜間課後照顧第二他們可能在市區的部分可能資源也豐富但是國中的部分因為孩子有成長的一個過程需要更多的關切所以三所國中都說OK"},{"start":11430.543,"end":11450.048,"text":"第二我們也詢問教育局因為有部分地方要自籌那教育局他也有意願願意繼續來編列這樣的預算所以才要跟您特別再拜託每一位學生我們都不可放棄這是教育的宗旨但施辦的計畫初步成果顯示對於弱勢的國中生"},{"start":11450.908,"end":11461.385,"text":"在情感的支持學習自信生活照顧有明顯的助益而且能夠減輕家庭的負擔所以我們希望未來若能穩定的經費與師資並加強學業的輔導有望進一步縮小學習的落差"},{"start":11466.212,"end":11481.751,"text":"我想脫貧是一個成長過程中很漫長的一條路但是教育顯然是一個公平的途徑所以我想在這個新興學子的教育制度的一個建置之下有向上流動的一個機會我希望您能夠繼續支持可以嗎"},{"start":11483.231,"end":11508.757,"text":"謝謝委員關心因為夜光天使確實委員當時所提出來的我們比較是偏鄉或者非常會是這些國中他確實資源相對比較少相對於市區所以我想那一個目標那一個方向我們會會來繼續來支持我想國教署來跟台中市教育局看怎麼樣有一個這個持續來支持這樣的一個對國中生有一個這個課後放學後的"},{"start":11510.757,"end":11537.367,"text":"包括到晚上的一些更多的照顧他確實是能夠彌補這一個比較偏鄉跟非山非市的學校的資源相對不足的部長 我可以相信城鄉有差距非山非市這個部分我想這個部分上都需要給予更多的資源 我都支持但是你不能否認市區的確有一些孩子他們有可能也是有一些資源上的落差"},{"start":11538.226,"end":11557.216,"text":"那所以在這個部分上我也希望說市區有弱勢的孩子我們也都有去看這些事辦的國中有去了解孩子他目前的這些相關生活標準相關的一些生活是不是需要給予一些幫助基本上老師都有做第一線的去做"},{"start":11557.816,"end":11577.467,"text":"跟我們報告那個大方向我們是樂意來支持的就是說比較詳細的那個推動是不是容我請這個署長跟這個台中市教育局我們這個來進一步的磋商啦好不好但是我們希望整體的這個目標不要改變就是持續的續辦"},{"start":11579.088,"end":11595.294,"text":"第二個想跟請問像今天很多的委員都在詢問也都很關切川普將暫停外國學生簽證面談將審查申請人的一個社群帳號這件事情看起來好像是屬實啊您有掌握嗎教育部"},{"start":11597.213,"end":11613.158,"text":"我們確實是從這個相關的一些報導我們也做了一些因應的措施那目前對於這個社群媒體的審查標準不明那教育部是否已經有主動發布提醒協助我們相關的學生的權益呢"},{"start":11616.264,"end":11630.671,"text":"我們已經透過駐外單位我們的教育組提醒我們在美國的留學生要注意相關的訊息以及對於當地國的法令必須要遵守"},{"start":11631.707,"end":11658.187,"text":"我想針對這個台灣高等教育的國際化佈局以及現階段已就讀跟即將入學哈佛的學生教育部有沒有應變的措施協助學生多元的選擇留學的一個國家並強化與其他國家的學術合作這也是我們很關切的面對這一個危機能不能變成轉機這部分教育部能不能加強去部署這部分我希望部長您覺得呢"},{"start":11659.059,"end":11685.673,"text":"是的我想我們確實因應這個川普政府對這個美國高等教育他有一些不一樣的一些這個期待那我們也確實也利用這個裡面看到可能有一些優秀的事實上的一個流動怎麼樣能夠有機會來到台灣為台灣培養這個人才那另外還有一個來自於本國的這些留學生怎麼樣一些"},{"start":11688.789,"end":11705.419,"text":"這個學習權益上的一些照顧包含這一個來自於全世界到這一個哈佛大學讀書的或者其他學校他們願意轉到台灣來我想這都是我們在積極在努力的我想這應變措施後續的資料可不可以給我們一下"},{"start":11707.352,"end":11726.861,"text":"可以的可以嗎有準備嗎可以可以可以沒有問題沒有問題好那我們想了解一下那第三個想跟你請問一下就是高中校園的手機納管教育部21日預告高級中等學校以下學校犧牲攜帶的行動載具到校管理的一個原則草案"},{"start":11727.361,"end":11751.553,"text":"其中高中訂定的管理規範應邀集教師、家長、學生各代表召開會議共同探討管理的一個機制請問教育部在制定高中校園手機管理的政策時是否參考國際間的相關經驗跟研究成果這些國家怎麼做?國際經驗在台灣推動有什麼幫助?這部分你有掌握嗎?"},{"start":11752.39,"end":11771.198,"text":"跟我們報告,確實這一個手機的管理,我們從學理、國際的研究,包括台灣衛護部的這個資料,我們確實覺得國外有許多的這些對學生學習,怎麼樣創造一個更好的環境,包含手機的一個管理。"},{"start":11772.638,"end":11799.394,"text":"這我們整個團隊用了將近一年的時間來做一個從學理到實務的規劃所以剛才有委員特別提到所以我們在這個整個管理的一個辦法裡面不是一個叫做集中管理一句話就解決並不是這樣的我們連這個怎麼樣保管的機制都有四種選項也希望讓學生能夠跟家長跟老師有充分的一個討論完"},{"start":11801.255,"end":11824.017,"text":"形成一個學校的...這是我要說的原本高中的各校就有自己的使用原則現在草案一出來看起來偏向逐步趨延但是在這個背景下會不會變成統一納管這部分我想說的是草案說應邀集教師、家長、學生各方代表召開會議請問學生的代表要怎麼產生"},{"start":11826.311,"end":11830.227,"text":"延伸代表這一個部分我們還是讓學校裡面他們"},{"start":11832.219,"end":11859.957,"text":"有一個透過一個民主化的過程來討論然後讓學生看由學生自己來領選或者各班派代表或者這個部分我們事實上比較細節的部分我們是尊重這個學校但我要講的是說草案雖然規定學校討論手機管理的時候學生代表應戰委員會三分之一但最終決策仍需校務會議通過而校務會議學生的代表比例僅有8%"},{"start":11861.678,"end":11888.401,"text":"部長如何確保校務會議上學生在決策過程中有實質參與這部分是不是也應該要幫忙協助所以不是只是在探討草案校務會議也是很重要的決策過程現在比較令人擔心的是關於共識怎麼產生產生的過程有沒有符合民主機制而不是我們直接說要民主機制可是你看校務會議校務會議最後才可以通過"},{"start":11889.982,"end":11913.173,"text":"我想校園民主化這本來就是我們基本的一個精神啦所以通常我也相信我們第一線上的校長或者老師當一個前面的一些共識管理的方式已經有一個共識提校務會議的時候除非他的過程裡邊有一些缺乏這個正當性所以你的意思是校務會議要尊重"},{"start":11914.894,"end":11936.089,"text":"這個所謂的共識就是我們的我們基本上的精神也是朝那個方向所以共識如果產生校務會議應該尊重是那好這是你說的喔在草案中我們看到學生的申訴救濟的一個機制就是向本校圈圈處市學生申訴評議委員會提起申訴請問部長"},{"start":11937.31,"end":11965.453,"text":"學生申訴與救濟的機制將如何落實教育部是否有上級的申訴管道避免學校校內的自我審查產生不公有沒有考慮上級的申訴管道委員這個申訴管道這個建制是透過現行既已建制的那個程序所以它是既有的程序所以我們這樣嫁接之後它是在合法的基礎上來運作申訴它的流程"},{"start":11966.325,"end":11991.039,"text":"好 所以這部分我還是要提醒讓他們能夠保有更彈性的一個申訴管道因為基本上我們就怕在校園校內自我審查的時候有這些不公或者是畢竟是在學校內大家作為老師上也有一些不方便 不好意思的可能性都有產生這個在申訴的過程可能會受理或者是過程會讓人家有疑義"},{"start":11992.28,"end":12008.652,"text":"這個部分我們都希望能夠盡量的公開透明甚至有上級的申訴管道我希望政策在推動的過程共識是經過民主機制討論出來而不是教師家長來做決定那當然我們也相信在這個利益良善的一個政策上"},{"start":12009.292,"end":12022.968,"text":"如何落實這也是很大的一個智慧尤其老師也很擔憂他們在落實的過程會不會遇到更多的一些困境我們也要關注老師的這個部分的權益這個部分我要再一次的提醒部長"},{"start":12024.629,"end":12050.116,"text":"四個我想跟你請問一下部長討論新北市三峽北大國小所發生的重大車禍案這起車禍不僅暴露了這個學區周邊道路設計管理的一個重大缺失更凸顯學生這個通學的安全能有極大的改善空間部長教育部對於全國學校通學步道的安全現況有何掌握現階段的一個具體數據跟檢討有嗎"},{"start":12054.639,"end":12082.124,"text":"報告委員這十六會後我們大概今天之內跟您回報一下我們之前有基金會去年十二月針對六都十九所學校抽驗檢查都不及格檢核的平均分數是33.79分請問部長教育部如何在中央其他的部會交通部內政部地方政府合作強化學區的周邊交通安全教育部應不應該也幫忙一起來處理"},{"start":12083.004,"end":12108.915,"text":"再跟委員回報兩點 第一點是剛才部長有講過跟內政部警政署一直都有合作來盤點比較危險的學校會檢送給內政部內政部也會跟當地的地區警員或相關的機制有一個網絡來處理第二點是有關通學步道部分跟內政部國土署有一個長年期的計畫國土署會就學校周邊跟延伸至社區有一些通學步道的設置跟補助"},{"start":12109.975,"end":12127.375,"text":"這點我們會給您你講這個我都知道啦但是現階段去年12月這個基金會六都19所學校平均33.79分全數都不及格所以可以顯現過往這些跨部位的成效有限今天趙偉站起來 趙偉最後一分鐘"},{"start":12128.616,"end":12156.261,"text":"我們看到這些成效有限所以財會基金會評比這麼差我今天就要講根據屏東縣教育產業工會的公文指出導護制度與接送區域的規劃畏懼一致性強制性各校執行成效不一以及交通安全的教育宣導不足學童家長自我防護合作意識代加強"},{"start":12157.341,"end":12182.554,"text":"部長這一個公文你認不認同我想各個學校裡面確實它有它的差異性我們怎麼樣去共同從中央到地方跨部會跨級處來合作讓學童有一個更好的一個上放學更安全的一個環境我想我們來努力很多要改善啦部長"},{"start":12183.354,"end":12196.544,"text":"教師導護一直是台灣中小學常見的校園安全工作但是教師本身就非專業的交通指揮人員面對複雜的交通狀況教師導護還要面臨安全風險你們政治也說"},{"start":12197.898,"end":12213.713,"text":"我們現階段就呼籲交通導護不是老師的業務啊有關教師導護的政策特別是站在降低教師應執行導護發生意外之風險相關責任爭議上教師導護的政策有沒有重新思考其必要性空間"},{"start":12215.506,"end":12233.897,"text":"部長我想我們這個部分我們會繼續來努力教師的主要責任就是教學輔導學生他沒有受過專業的訓練交通指揮不是說我們不支持但是教師畢竟不是警察也沒有公權力然後仍然要教師來導護那應該給予什麼樣的訓練給予什麼樣的保障"},{"start":12238.22,"end":12261.438,"text":"你要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草你要馬兒能夠去做這樣子的一個服務但是你卻沒有給予相關的支持這是我要提出的啊所以這份公文我們再一次的呼籲教育部應該重視這樣的問題我們不是反對他們去而是給予該強度的支持協助他們的權益這部分應該要做到部長"},{"start":12262.259,"end":12278.512,"text":"拖很久了希望你能夠有所突破我想我們這一個部分我們會跟地方一起來合作來努力那幾個月內可以努力完有一個成果這個他確實有各地方的一個這個社區都會區跟那什麼時候要溝通什麼時候要溝通溝通的會議內容什麼時候給我們我們兩個月內兩個月內"},{"start":12286.999,"end":12304.731,"text":"希望我等得到這個部分不要說超過了兩個月又再一次兩個月再一次兩個月上一次就跟你講了正式在講說這個部分他也是覺得交通導護有疑義講到現在我都還沒有等到相關的一些具體改善"},{"start":12306.259,"end":12328.904,"text":"對不起這一個我不曉得我們業次當時有承諾委員那我想我們行政上我們他現在署長給我的訊息是他還沒有520還沒進來之前他事實上他有這樣的一個主張那當然我想我們在整個政策裡面我們全面來了解好啦一年過了又一年真的要做啦好不好拜託拜託"},{"start":12332.834,"end":12336.429,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢官員請回座我們接下來休息五分鐘"},{"start":12646.614,"end":12672.014,"text":"好 會議繼續好 謝謝好 我們接下來有請吳佩奕委員質詢好 謝謝主席我請教育部政部長"},{"start":12673.001,"end":12673.463,"text":"有請部長貝茲勳 謝謝"},{"start":12680.151,"end":12687.877,"text":"委員好部長好首先要請教我們葉秉成次長因為性平的疑慮現在是送交教育部的性平會要來進行調查那我今天要請教的是因為外界也很關心我們看一下現在教育部性平會的成員名單首先性平會的主委就是我們部長就是部長您再來我們次長"},{"start":12705.171,"end":12719.959,"text":"也是性評會委員包括署長以及兩位司長一共有五位我們教育部內部的人員都是我們性評會的成員而其中主委就是部長所以外界會關切送到教育部的性評會來調查他是不是就代表的中立跟客觀呢目前教育部的性評會在調查小組的部分是不是都是外部委員"},{"start":12730.803,"end":12745.364,"text":"跟我們報告是的調查小組有外部委員但是調查小組的結果還是要來開性評論所以我現在要要求教育部依據其實也是我們教育部網站上面的資料就是我們在"},{"start":12746.505,"end":12760.537,"text":"性平的這個調查程序上呢什麼叫做重大瑕疵教育部也給各界一個說明其實其中呢依照我們的行政程序法三十二三十三條第一個三十二條是在講說如果呢在調查程序當中當事人"},{"start":12764.821,"end":12778.897,"text":"他應該要迴避而我認為本案其實教育部就是當事人所以包含了部長次長司長都應該要迴避第二如果依照行政程序法第33條他在講說那公務員如果你有這個"},{"start":12780.399,"end":12784.543,"text":"職務執行有偏頗之餘者就是有這樣的一律的人你也可以申請迴避這個我在看啊部長因為成員裡面有兩位司長這個學特司甚至是葉次長督導的你要司長"},{"start":12797.694,"end":12801.516,"text":"來調查甚至最後他可能沒參與調查但他之後可能有處置次長這個在職場上面有違我們正常的經驗法則所以我認為在性評會裡面我們教育部包含了部長次長署長兩位司長我們五位成員都應該要迴避部長可不可以承諾"},{"start":12818.982,"end":12844.072,"text":"我想確實在這個利害關係人裡面他是應該要迴避的 這個我是可以承諾的好 我覺得我們一定要以最高的標準甚至優於法規的最高標準來進行接下來的性品調查才能夠重新贏得社會各界的信任因為你們是我們中華民國台灣教育的最高主管機關一定要用最嚴謹的態度來看待"},{"start":12846.073,"end":12866.695,"text":"接下來呢有關於台大的案件還是有一個部分我必須要跟部長來討論因為在監察院的報告當中其實至今我們能夠看到的報告就是監察院這一份報告監察院的報告去年七月份就出來了裡面的第四頁我認為有一個非常大的問題"},{"start":12869.182,"end":12881.567,"text":"裡面監察院調查的時候經有訪談他指出這一位當事學生他多次跟學校的心理師說拜託不要再叫我去找宿舍輔導員了結果心理師卻跟當事學生說"},{"start":12886.268,"end":12893.453,"text":"這個輔導員啊他是離你最靠近而且安全的角色言下之意是說你就去找輔導員沒有問題再來他除了叫學生去找輔導員以外在監察院調查裡面還說台大有一個工作人員B員他是誰我們不知道但是他有三次聯繫了"},{"start":12909.542,"end":12919.184,"text":"宿舍輔導員也就是可能的加害人聯繫他做什麼呢要這個宿舍輔導員去多關心當事學生請可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人請郎師去關心被害學生這如果在其他的師生的性別案件是這樣喔"},{"start":12933.885,"end":12938.166,"text":"假設他是狼當時在調查當中嘛假設他是狼就是引狼入室啊部長 你在看到這個文字你有沒有覺得非常的奇怪非常的不恰當這是發生在台大校園裡面的事情喔這個我認為甚至不到性評會這個是重大的行政疏失"},{"start":12957.056,"end":12966.819,"text":"非常重大的行政疏失台大的校園 這是監察院的報告我講的不是性評會的報告監察院報告去年七月就告訴我們有這樣的情況了結果呢到現在我們沒有去詢問說台大為什麼做這樣的處置"},{"start":12976.826,"end":12989.234,"text":"也有可能當時的心理師他跟這個月性平案件要保密嘛也許他們沒有收到這個相關的資訊也許是這樣造成了不當的處置但是這確實是不當那如誠如部長您今天受訪講的我們要檢討並且我們要避免同樣的情勢下一次再次發生對吧但是依我在看台大這個處置這麼大的疏失到今天沒有被檢討"},{"start":13007.335,"end":13029.138,"text":"同樣的事情就絕對還會再發生你怎麼會叫可能的加害人去關切可能的受害人而且這個台大的B員台大的工作人員他是什麼職務他是不是長官所謂的希望他多關心被害學生的這個希望他當中有沒有權利的關係"},{"start":13031.479,"end":13048.894,"text":"這個一定要去調查清楚所以部長現在我們案件也送信評會就是要去重新檢視台大的程序但是在我們已知的監察院公開在網路上面全國國人都可以看到的報告當中這一段的描述我認為已經明確的不當了"},{"start":13051.776,"end":13063.227,"text":"所以一定要要求台大如果有行政疏失 行政不當而教育部沒有要求台大檢討的話部長 那就是我們教育部的督導不周就是我們教育部的督導疏失了我們一定要去把它調查清楚 國會部長"},{"start":13068.317,"end":13092.454,"text":"可以的我想謝謝委員台大這樣的一個處理我想他在行政上確實有許多我們應該要更進一步的去理解了解他的一個可能造成的傷害部長我們要再積極我們是最高主管機關這一份報告我剛剛講了去年七月就公開在網路上了至今台大沒有被檢討這當中有沒有行政責任信憑會是信憑會學校有行政責任"},{"start":13098.378,"end":13109.167,"text":"誰去要求輔導員三次叫他去關切學生誰一定要調查清楚好不好好這個性平案件真的全台灣都非常關切尤其是在校園裡面很遺憾我們看到東華大學也發生了性侵案件"},{"start":13120.711,"end":13143.448,"text":"以及以性侵來起訴那他是師對師學校裡面的男性老師性侵女教師這個案件目前同時性評會重啟調查因為他司法已經起訴了以及在司法當中但我今天要請教育部的是因為他是師對師適用的是我們性評工作法"},{"start":13145.063,"end":13171.388,"text":"的第十二第十三條第十二條是說這一個性騷跟性侵害案件同等適用十三條是說雇主也就是以這樣來說東華大學校方應該要避免申訴人受性騷擾或性侵情形再度發生你有責任要避免情況再度發生而且你要有相關的措施要有所作為十三之一條"},{"start":13173.186,"end":13191.944,"text":"就是說過主你是有權利得暫時停止或被申訴人之職務就是你可以讓他停止的我現在想要請問教育部有沒有去了解東華大學在這個案件當中有沒有以性供法來處置有沒有相關的措施"},{"start":13197.346,"end":13216.013,"text":"高華大學有沒有盡到避免這個受害的申訴人持續受到可能的危險跟我們報告這個5月24當時加害者已經被這一個在調查期間這一個停職半年那詳細的是不是請這一個市長來"},{"start":13216.633,"end":13235.35,"text":"5月24號就是前幾天學校依照他們的相關程序組成了調查小組也在啟動所謂的性評那在性評的調查過程當中已經決意先把這位教師給停職的處分好 非常好這個案件發生的時間是什麼時候"},{"start":13238.396,"end":13257.427,"text":"跟委員報告這個因為他當初在處理上面其實這個好去年八月起訴但是這一位老師直到今年也就是現在五月份才被停職部長你知道嗎在學校裡面甚至是有學生主動發起"},{"start":13261.883,"end":13286.513,"text":"護衛隊來保護這位女性教師因為有長達從去年八月到今年五月長達也是將近一年的時間這一個已經性侵起訴的男性教師都還在學校裡面那女性教師她在出入的時候她都要盡量去避免有機會去碰觸到"},{"start":13288.231,"end":13314.485,"text":"所以我還是想要再次提醒教育部我們的督導責任我認為應當可以更加積極因為這個案件在法規上面我覺得很明確適用信工法了那東華大學如果可以早一點開始開啟這個會議的話也許我們會早一點做出停職的措施那這個教師的環境可以早一點"},{"start":13315.987,"end":13334.596,"text":"比較安全我們學校老師的安全性平的環境不應該是到最後由學生要來發起互惠甚至學生去幫老師送便當學生看不下去了站出來保護老師希望我們教育部可以更積極最後一個我"},{"start":13335.396,"end":13361.885,"text":"抱歉主席給我一點時間一樣是性侵案件台中幼兒園發生一起四歲的女童被跆拳道教練性侵案件那因為去年台北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案狼屍案之後我們跟教育部一直在討論要去修正相關的法規為什麼因為在台北市培諾米達案件當中當時大家最沒有辦法接受的是家長已經知道性侵的情勢了"},{"start":13362.765,"end":13389.615,"text":"但是要去調監視器要甚至家長要看調查報告都百般的被阻撓家長不能看報告這讓家長非常的惡賜傷害所以我們今年1月教育部你們已經修正相關的規定跟法規其中總總這有好幾條我覺得最重要的就是我們增加了受害幼童家長可以調閱調查報告的規定所以我現在想要請教教育部有沒有去了解台中這個案件我們有沒有讓家長看調查報告"},{"start":13393.286,"end":13405.849,"text":"有沒有適用心法這有適用心法但是這個詳細的情況是不是容我們跟台中市完成了比較確定的了解之後今天之內跟您回報好 請務必確定我要感謝委員修了兩個辦法還有檢核表也都給了最後在這個兩週內我們還會給他一個運用的手冊所以四件事都有照委員這個方向"},{"start":13417.551,"end":13437.226,"text":"我們修法是為了保護孩子保護家長所以拜託我不要再看到有家長想要看報告卻被百般阻農的情況請你們務必要了解法規有沒有被落實好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝吳佩奕委員質詢 官員請回座接下來有請范雲委員質詢好 謝謝主席 有請部長"},{"start":13447.455,"end":13447.736,"text":"有請部長備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":13455.287,"end":13461.348,"text":"委員好部長好我想關於性平案件就是說教育部的相關的處置那剛剛今天早上郭育群委員還有張雅玲委員還有剛剛吳佩儀委員那都有表達他們的非常的重視那張雅玲委員有三點要求吳佩儀委員也有對調查性平會的運作希望你們立意迴避那我想他們所講的部分那我都支持"},{"start":13484.133,"end":13503.868,"text":"那這不是個別委員那部長應該很清楚我們七位民進黨的教文委員兩次公文要求兩次跟你們包含部長、次長當面討論要求那如果再加上我個人更早以前的職選那我們一直對你們的回覆是不滿意的"},{"start":13504.688,"end":13519.604,"text":"那我覺得這個部分我想再重申他其實是教育部系統性的問題那剛剛張雅玲委員是說你們的性平意識那其實就台大來看台大也產生了系統性的問題"},{"start":13520.385,"end":13529.593,"text":"那為什麼這樣講就是形式主義上好像你們認為是合法的可是如果從性平意識跟性別評審教育法的精神來看你們用的是最低標然後這個部分那今天會拖到就是這麼多的委員的集體聲明"},{"start":13539.161,"end":13550.583,"text":"那真的希望教育部把危機變成轉機好好的徹底檢討那我想部長這個部分因為我們後續都會監督部長應該可以同意我所講的吧"},{"start":13552.335,"end":13580.914,"text":"謝謝委員的關心確實我們現在是從這個方向在努力也會深切檢討我想因為這件事情還有加上最近的手機爭議真的讓全國的不管是大學生或是高中生等會對教育部有一些信心危機我想我們都在努力希望建立不管是性平的制度或者是兒少表義權"},{"start":13581.875,"end":13598.902,"text":"就是讓大家看到教育部是重視的因為如果教育部不重視性平機制那全國的校長、老師、學生、家長就是會有很大的憂慮如果教育部不重視兒少表義權我想青年學生也不能接受所以這個手機爭議出來的時候當然我們知道後來國教署長、司長都有幫忙解釋"},{"start":13607.105,"end":13633.395,"text":"今天並不是政策發布會是媒體問然後部長突然說出集中保管九月上路就有很多的爭議我在第一時間就邀集了全國遠從屏中高雄都有來的高中職學生代表跟教育部面對面你看那個照片來了這麼多人他們真的是緊急的都很願意來立法院那謝謝當天祖密到了資料司長到國教署長也都到"},{"start":13635.597,"end":13652.737,"text":"資料司長還有幫忙致歉說之前的確沒有諮詢足夠的學生當然當天真的是炮聲隆隆那天主要的訴求一個是高中生應該要分階段管理因為高中生的自主程度跟國中小不一樣"},{"start":13653.758,"end":13662.745,"text":"還有校內民主學生代表這兩個部分謝謝教育部有納入你們後來公布的草案中那我第一時間也為了彌補這個兒少表義權的部分就要求教育部"},{"start":13669.249,"end":13669.85,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13689.087,"end":13700.944,"text":"今天是不是能夠代表教育部到場聆聽讓大家感受到部長您非常的重視青少年表義權願意聆聽高中生對這個草案的看法呢"},{"start":13704.054,"end":13727.112,"text":"謝謝委員關心我想這個星期天的這個6月1號署長跟市長都會親自參加那我這個部分我來努力我來看因為有一些既定的事情我希望部長可以努力啦因為我相信以您的心理學的背景對這件事情的懇切態度那能夠讓高中生感受到您願意聆聽重視兒少表義權那而且當天我們知道的是"},{"start":13731.095,"end":13759.53,"text":"有120位不只是全國的高中生還有線上那剛剛也有高中生反應說好像只有45個人發言那我是希望無論如何那高中生能夠炮聲隆隆對教育部有批判性的意見應該是我們民主的成果那其實在座談會的時候我也跟他們講說鄭部長一定很高興看到你們對於政府的政策有意見因為這是我們民主的成果"},{"start":13759.81,"end":13766.933,"text":"我們應該要驕傲才對所以我真的非常的希望第一個當天能夠讓越多的學生發言越好那書面意見也應該更開放那線上也要有表達意見的機會那這部分我想部長都聽到了那針對這個政策的部分因為部長一直有提到說你們有收集國際的經驗以我辦公室這邊這個表格就是教育部可以拿去參考這是我們辦公室收集跟整理的"},{"start":13788.283,"end":13814.453,"text":"因為它分散在很多不一樣的新聞聯合國教科文組織也有統計但是這個表格分享出來是我們辦公室做的其實2024年底全世界有79個國家都有手機相關的禁令政策或法規如果我們只看民主國家的話我們這裡列的是歐美民主國家跟亞洲我們認為值得參考的日本韓國新加坡部長你可以看到"},{"start":13816.134,"end":13828.988,"text":"雖然全國統一有相關的禁用政策是多數可是高中幾乎都是分級管理不管制高中不管制是民主國家包含日本是這麼做統一"},{"start":13830.41,"end":13846.616,"text":"集中保管的策略是少數我們整理到的只有法國、荷蘭、匈牙利跟瑞典那學校自主規範在幾種方法中選擇的彈性規範也是多數這是我們辦公室整理到的就是國際的狀況"},{"start":13848.698,"end":13865.038,"text":"而且我們看到教育部現在公告的草案我們覺得其實還是太簡略因為全國有3854個學校每個學校狀況不同那他們都要各自討論或執行其實這個指引雖然你們叫做指引但是不夠詳盡"},{"start":13867.842,"end":13884.244,"text":"不知道部長有沒有看過我手上這個我們辦公室找到的英國針對手機政策頒布之後他們教育部的指引部長有看過嗎我手上這份東西網路上有待會兒我可以給您您有沒有看過知道有這個東西"},{"start":13886.732,"end":13898.126,"text":"英國的這個詳細的資料我沒有看但是我大概知道英國的一些相關的那我要講的事情是我待會就可以直接給部長他非常的詳盡這個指引本身就11頁我們的這個草案只有3頁"},{"start":13905.114,"end":13924.961,"text":"英國本領這個相關的政策之後他還有一個說帖這個說帖本身是要告訴每個學校如何跟家長老師跟學生溝通因為這個溝通是非常的繁複的那這個你可以看到這樣一個政策在溝通上要做得多細緻"},{"start":13926.421,"end":13941.412,"text":"然後呢英國的指引有給學校就像你們有給幾個方式可是他很清楚說這四種管理方式各自有的優點跟缺點學校要注意的譬如入校腳手機可能會有ABG個人保管"},{"start":13942.273,"end":13962.19,"text":"禁止使用但不收腳必須要有親師生高度信任就比較是在低就比較像我們現在高中的現狀你看到他的指引這麼的詳盡那可是呢我們並沒有所以我真的希望教育部可以參考英國的這兩份我待會可以直接給部長就是能夠"},{"start":13963.171,"end":13978.891,"text":"提供給學校更詳細的從溝通說帖到政策的指引讓學校在選擇的時候有更清楚那這個部分剛剛部長已經講到你還沒有看過那我想現在我們的部分那真的太少"},{"start":13979.452,"end":14000.995,"text":"另外就是我相信禮拜天高中生也會反映因為在我們辦的30所高中生座談就已經談到了還有最近我也請了幾個高中生代表來跟我直播部長有興趣可以快展看一下你可以看到現在的高中生成熟度像我們當年的大學生因為他們現在的學生議會然後代表各方面"},{"start":14001.536,"end":14026.079,"text":"那他們希望就是說你們所說的學生代表的三分之一的比例能夠比照服醫委員會不要到最後的校務會議中剛剛也有不同政黨的委員談到是不是會被推翻那如果是比同服醫委員會的話就有一個但書的條件那不知道部長有沒有可能參考呢"},{"start":14026.759,"end":14052.626,"text":"就是學生希望說你們在禮拜天之後能夠更清楚的向服役委員會把行動載具委員會明定這個規則中包含說如果是比照服役的話就校務會議在怎麼樣的情況下除非是違法或等等那不得任意修改那明定成員產生的方式剛剛有別的委員有講到那三分之一等等決議的方式不知道部長能不能夠考慮呢"},{"start":14054.914,"end":14079.004,"text":"謝謝委員關心 因為確實委員在這個手機的一個管理原則裡面也給部裡面有很多的指導那我們雖然英國的detail的東西我並沒有看但是澳洲的我在看澳洲跟英國的都四個選項裡面分別有做一些也是我們這一次裡面管理要點也採用了簡單來講就是說你學校到底是要"},{"start":14079.944,"end":14095.205,"text":"統一來集中管理還是放在各班還是由學生關機放在這一個書包裡邊然後因為他確實我們也都把這些國際的一些現況做了一些感謝委員提醒"},{"start":14095.706,"end":14118.854,"text":"所以我們目前的一個這個公告一告的事實上我們除了草案還有範本還有QA大概也十幾頁啦但是不管怎樣我感謝委員給我們這樣的一些意見也許我們在6月1號星期天的這個公聽會完以後因為他有實體有線上嘛那我們怎麼樣去廣納這一個學生的一個意見"},{"start":14119.514,"end":14133.021,"text":"然後能夠做最後的一些部長說精神上有參考澳洲的可是我看到的就是你這四個選項還是太炒劣沒有想到它的優缺點然後怎麼跟師生溝通弄一個優缺點做一個評估我們原來是說把這些訊息沒有單一的選項而是讓學校回到"},{"start":14143.146,"end":14170.589,"text":"在建立共識或者校評會裡面他們能夠去重複考慮那我想就是家長老師學生在這個議題上有可能有一些各自的就是說意見跟衝突就像我們剛講的各方的意見然後教育部的關心這個部分我們一直都講到我們委員是肯定的可是怎麼樣在溝通跟政策制定的過程中考慮多方的意見好好的溝通還是提醒部長全國"},{"start":14171.249,"end":14194.89,"text":"全台只要國中小就有7萬多班 14多萬老師那他們遇到的問題 我還是希望也許趁著暑假 教師應該要辦公聽會好好的溝通跟相關的 而且是分區另外我那天有跟部長講我覺得這麼重要的政策 如果以法國為例其實他們是有做200所中學的試辦"},{"start":14196.832,"end":14205.343,"text":"然後隔了一年之後才正式上路那也這樣才知道指引不足尤其是你現在的國中小如果集中保管要試辦的話那我知道部長很焦慮覺得這個是一個據說重要的政策沒有時間試辦我還是有四個訴求啦"},{"start":14215.816,"end":14236.642,"text":"第一個 制定要更執引 更完整溝通也要有一個執引第二個就是三分之一這部分能不能補照服醫委員會的規定納入你的辦法中第三個 競訴辦分區場次的公聽會那能夠完整收集教師學生家長當然最好最後呢 教育部是不是能夠考慮你們的"},{"start":14239.204,"end":14260.343,"text":"修正後公布的話有一個事半期那晚一點再上路我想就是這個東西我知道教育部有自己的agenda但是從這一波溝通經驗中我們認為這影響所有的人影響老師影響學生影響家長的生活好的政策需要好的溝通好不好那部長可以回去考慮嗎"},{"start":14262.461,"end":14286.531,"text":"跟我們報告我們行動採取事實上本來就已經計定了辦法現在只是修訂這個我們了解第二個我們在這個修訂的過程事實上我們全教產教師會所有的團體包括教員我們也都有徵詢等於說一體座談所以要有一個更詳細我想我們當然讓全國能夠有一個更好的一個遵循我們會來努力"},{"start":14287.992,"end":14300.777,"text":"好 那我們是希望好的政策最後教育部是得到大家的肯定跟支持好 教育部加油 好 謝謝好 謝謝范瑩委員的質詢 官員請回座接下來有請萬美玲委員質詢謝謝趙委員 有請部長請部長備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":14319.264,"end":14324.328,"text":"委員好部長好一樣跟你來談手機管制的相關規定的問題我想聽了一個早上學生團體沒有溝通好教室沒有溝通好家長有不同的意見商務的時間大家也有不同的說法事辦的方式也不同"},{"start":14339.699,"end":14342.642,"text":"工廳會要辦座談會要辦我就不曉得為什麼在當時我們這個草案要訂定之前不能夠更整密一下做好這些計畫那因此這麼大的一些紛擾那當然我想這個手機要去做一個管制現在在世界各國其實越來越多國家都這麼做"},{"start":14360.057,"end":14387.685,"text":"那事實上呢如果你現在去問就是你去問很多的人大家大概也都覺得說這個手機啊的確對孩子的學習是有影響的不然我們會不會那麼無聊突然間要辦這個草案嘛但怎麼做尤其是我們看到我們現在要限制的對象是學生我們要限制的對象是學生我們要落實管理跟執行是老師那一旦我們限制的對象我們沒有去做一個很妥適很好的溝通或者是很便利的一個配套"},{"start":14388.385,"end":14414.233,"text":"那老師要去管理的時候我想啊整個學校一片師生的衝突全都上來了那現在就已經開始有了嘛所以我覺得這個部長真的要好好去想一想要怎麼做那當然6月1號我們樂見就是說我們去多聽一下學生的一個想法因為畢竟他們是背線之人那但是呢這個草案其實已經講了這麼久了那眼看著我們的公告日期是6月1號到本席記得其實我在2月份的時候曾經問過就之前"},{"start":14416.234,"end":14428.69,"text":"質詢問過您 當時你說本來2月這個就要公告那一直到6月份的時候是希望要跟學生溝通嘛好 那我就請教一下我們現在不管是跟學校溝通縣市溝通 跟學生溝通各溝通了幾次"},{"start":14432.743,"end":14460.884,"text":"跟委員說明一下首先我們在三月的時候我們教育部有召開一個協商的會議我要數字就好 其他不需要然後目前的話有就是中開獎平台上廣集各方的意見所以有一次的實體然後目前是等於是平台上收集資料然後六月一號會再做好 所以我們現在總共就只有跟學生團體做了一次的溝通其他在線上收集資料我們有跟教師團體溝通過嗎"},{"start":14464.577,"end":14483.645,"text":"跟委員報告有幾次對象一次然後我們基本上就是幾個重要的就是全國的一個教師的代表像全教總 全教產然後我們都是邀請他們就是能夠以代表來然後把他們的意見收整家長團體呢有跟什麼家長團體溝通跟委員說明一下國教盟跟全家盟"},{"start":14492.512,"end":14496.435,"text":"我想第一個你溝通的次數夠不夠談的內容有沒有辦法充分讓他們去做表達再來我們收集的範本數我覺得夠不夠作為一個參考這些都是很重要的再來我們看到其實這個草案要出來公佈不久以後這麼多的聲音去做反彈"},{"start":14515.831,"end":14536.23,"text":"那尤其其中有很多是认为教育部是推诿把这个问题丢给了学校把这个压力丢给了这个老师那也造成学生不开心那我现在其实也要问一下这个部长部长我们不管用哪一种方式现在我们要去做这个手机的统一管理那学校方面有办法这样配合吗"},{"start":14539.212,"end":14541.674,"text":"有跟學校做過溝通嗎?根據我們的草案內容"},{"start":14555.532,"end":14574.655,"text":"跟委員說明一下我們當時的協商會有找學校的行政代表全國高中小學校的行政代表是這樣嗎沒有吧我們有兩個行政的代表然後此外跟委員報告你說全國的高中小找兩個行政的代表"},{"start":14574.815,"end":14592.35,"text":"跟委員再說明一下就是說我們這個辦法它其實是在民國168年好啦好啦你不要說明了我們下去啦那個部長我想喔我還是重申一次就說我們要管理手機這件事情我們是贊成的什麼管那個是一個重點因為我們不是要限制他用手機啊而是要看看"},{"start":14593.11,"end":14621.189,"text":"這個手機怎麼樣用一個做一個妥適的使用那讓這個家長放心讓學生有便利嘛但是看起來現在常常這種混亂所以我想今天我們整個提醒不外乎是第一個我希望教育部能夠跟我們全國各縣市的學校來做一個溝通然後呢也跟我們教師的代表能夠做人數更廣更深切的溝通那麼跟學生代表那更是被限制對象也要溝通最後我想各縣市其實我們還有很多"},{"start":14623.33,"end":14646.522,"text":"那我覺得 趕快把這些意見採取起來那如果說你九月就要上路 其實本席看起來六月份 七月 八月 九月就要上路 其實這時間是非常趕的喔所以我想這個 教育部可能要再思考一下那同時 如果今天上路以後 是不是有一個示範的機制示範之後 怎麼滾動式檢討能不能在會後 一週內 給我一個回覆以上這些"},{"start":14647.802,"end":14673.807,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我想這一個一週後我們在6月1號反正公聽會完我們會有一個你就要整理吧所以一週後好不好就公聽會完的一週後好不好好 謝謝那接下來部長一樣請教一下我想上一個禮拜也是一個這個非常沉痛的一個新聞事件我們看到三峽北大國小旁邊的這個嚴重的車禍我想那一幕幕其實我們真的都不忍心看第二次真的很心痛那我想部長"},{"start":14676.067,"end":14683.726,"text":"你是不是有去學校去做了一個關心或者是有成立一些什麼樣去協助受影響的學生跟家庭那目前的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":14686.349,"end":14711.446,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實當天事件發生我就到醫院去陪同總統也帶我們就第一時間去關心這一個受害的學生還有這一個家屬那另外我也跟我們這個新北市的張局長有這一個保持這個電話的一個聯絡怎樣的一個新北市的處理需要教育部來協助來配合"},{"start":14711.786,"end":14736.946,"text":"我想后续还是有很多的事情我们专案跟地方一起我们要好好来协助这个案子不过我们来看到因为这个车祸就发生在学校旁其实过去这么多年来大大小小的车祸在学校旁其实很多非常非常多起了那不管这个就是受伤的状况事件造成的后续的严重性到多大只要有一个孩子受伤我想我们都是很不舍的"},{"start":14737.586,"end":14749.239,"text":"所以我想我們對於學校周邊通行步道的關注其實越來越高我們看到政府在111年開始推動校園周邊計行車安全道路改善計畫總共50億"},{"start":14752.543,"end":14760.687,"text":"總共50億那本席也看了一下這個質詢率非常高將近要97%將近97%那去年我們就接續推動永續提升人行安全計畫那113年到116年4年共400億那是由地方縣市政府提上來教育局把它提上這個需求那我們是由內政部國土署來匡列260億還有交通部的公務局匡列140億來協助地方做那但是呢"},{"start":14781.018,"end":14798.779,"text":"我現在看到好像這件事情在教育部沒有一個角色在裡面那是不是我沒有去思考過就這件事情之後教育部有沒有什麼方式是協助地方政府或地方教育局跟我們國土署跟交通部一起可以把這個規劃做得更好一些這是第一個那第二個呢"},{"start":14799.179,"end":14816.201,"text":"我們看到這個預算的執行其實剛剛我們有說了在之前的這50億執行率其實將近97%了可是本期的了解就我自己的桃園市來講我們桃園市這麼大這麼多的學校那其實有很多的學校第一個他還不太清楚什麼樣的案子可以報上來第二個呢"},{"start":14817.543,"end":14832.131,"text":"可能有一些些可能縣市的教育局會覺得說好像不太有符合到我們現在國土署所想要推動的目標所以我想教育部在這個部分有沒有辦法成立一個就是跨平台來做一個協助或是一個資訊資源的一個整合"},{"start":14833.562,"end":14853.456,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 確實我們目前是有跨部會的這樣一個平台但是委員也特別提到通學步道怎麼樣落實到社區的一個上學的一個陸隊包括學生的一個上放學 讓他能夠更安全事實上我們也在"},{"start":14854.557,"end":14867.43,"text":"這個前幾天的一個校安的行政院的一個會議裡面也特別提到我們地方政府也怎麼樣來協助學校在上放學的時間有更多的警力或者更多的一些呼籲家長現在家長都是上放學開車或者計車站"},{"start":14871.835,"end":14895.583,"text":"我相信各縣市政府都會很重視啦各縣市政府教育局其實也是會來做但是有的時候就是有分兩個部分嘛第一個就是我們在道路上的安全道路上的設計是不是要做一些調整那這個調整因應現在譬如說上學情況的一些變更不一或者我們現在開始鼓勵其實孩子能夠自己來上學那交通的狀況的不一致現在可能都要做一個改變"},{"start":14897.044,"end":14918.26,"text":"第二個部分是什麼就是教育我想部長我也看到您跟我跟我們很多人其實我們都有去參與過支持過進捐文教基金會關於這個小黃帽交通安全教育計畫我有看到部長您很可愛都有去支持嘛對不對但是呢說真的每一年我們在支持這樣的一個活動我們也試著"},{"start":14918.84,"end":14941.246,"text":"因為部長知道我也是草原市家長會長協會理事長嘛我們在試著怎麼樣把它落實到地方下面去而不是這一次而已喔可是我覺得我們的教育上在交通安全教育上要再加強你我都在日本看過小學生上課排隊只要舉著手所有的這個司機都會讓他那所以你也提過喔你也在這個今天在教育部終身"},{"start":14942.046,"end":14966.935,"text":"終身教育解凍的報告當中有提到要推動交通安全的一個教育那是不是可以就這兩點跟我提一下第一個議題第二個教育我想確實因為它真的是一個中央跟地方要合作然後我們在課程上交通安全也有一個五階段的一個課程的一個規劃那另外就是剛才委員也關心說"},{"start":14968.135,"end":14987.08,"text":"這一個怎麼樣交通要去做一些這個重新的一個更安全的一個整密的一個規劃交通部也有一個包括學校附近的那些實施入口怎麼樣讓汽車能夠迎返等於說它距離保留由現在的可能一兩公里"},{"start":14988.2,"end":15011.646,"text":"那我給你一個具體的建議啦中央地方當然要合作那我給你一個具體的建議我們用更高的高度從教育部下來第一個呢我們政策下去比如說我們今天當孩子要過馬路的時候到底啊我們是要覺得日本做得不錯那我們就統一規範是不是孩子都可以舉個手啊養成這個習慣那布林沒有下去的話也許各縣市教育局就會落實我們就試試看"},{"start":15012.546,"end":15031.056,"text":"不管有沒有導護老師帶領有沒有我們的交通志工義工我們都做這個動作甚至於以前也有過小黃旗小黃帽等等不管哪一種方式我們試試看由中央的高度下去來做那我覺得要去試行而不是只有做呼籲做呼籲其實是會來不及的第二個呢我覺得你可以用更高的這個高度去看"},{"start":15031.556,"end":15060.532,"text":"到底我們現在整個學校周邊的道路有什麼樣大的問題是大家共有的狀況那麼我們下去告訴各縣市的政府有遇到這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼抱上來然後經由剛才我說的我們跟內政部跟交通部的一個平台那我們來做一個三方平台的溝通然後做一個這個小組我覺得這樣子會比較好那我想今天提出的建議讓部長去想一想那能夠盡快的我們從中央的高度去來重視學生的安全好不好"},{"start":15061.613,"end":15064.641,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 我想我們一定會努力好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美林委員諮詢 官員請回座"},{"start":15074.571,"end":15101.196,"text":"好那現在我們處理解凍專案報告11案剛才有稍微溝通如果有血糖的問題或需要有同仁可能可以先到外面去用個餐但是我想我們今天主要還是要先處理解凍專案報告那解凍專案報告11案請議事人員宣讀並進行討論"},{"start":15104.216,"end":15129.3,"text":"討論事項1交易部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議35預算凍結專案報告請查照案2交易部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議43預算凍結專案報告請查照案3交易部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議48預算凍結專案報告請查照案4"},{"start":15133.041,"end":15158.351,"text":"交易部函 為一億四年度中央政府總預算決議減送體育署新增決議156預算凍結專案報告請查查案交易部函 為一億四年度中央政府總預算決議減送體育署新增決議175預算凍結專案報告請查查案交易部函 為一億四年度中央政府總預算決議減送青年發展署新增決議195預算凍結專案報告請查查案"},{"start":15161.67,"end":15166.055,"text":"七 教育部函為2014年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國家圖書館新增決議206預算凍結專案報告請查照案八"},{"start":15172.714,"end":15195.968,"text":"教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立公共資訊圖書館新增決議二零九預算凍結專案報告請查詐案九教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國家教育研究院新增決議二一三預算凍結專案報告請查詐案十教育部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部決議五預算凍結專案報告請查詐案"},{"start":15201.672,"end":15212.719,"text":"11 交易不含 為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送青年發展因素 決議二預算凍結專案報告 請查詐案 宣讀完畢好 謝謝那我們針對解凍專案報告案第一頁我們請問各位委員有無意見有沒有意見"},{"start":15229.704,"end":15246.417,"text":"好我這裡本席這裡做一點簡單的陳述今天處理教育部114年度的解凍案那書面解凍的部分雖然在會議開始的時候都已經處理完畢但是教育部的書面報告其實是完全沒有答覆本席預算案所提出的問題"},{"start":15247.799,"end":15261.917,"text":"針對五大信賴產業預計四年要培育20萬AI人才各部位到底怎麼分工教育部負責哪個部分預計分年度各年到底要培育多少AI人才在書面報告在另外一份327頁裡面總共只用了181個字"},{"start":15265.901,"end":15292.576,"text":"可以說是用一個非常簡略的說法來打發全台甚至全球都非常關注的問題我想教育部這種態度其實是值得商議的完全看不到對於AI人才的重視那更何況依據教育部所提供的資料近五年來教育部所培育的AI人才數量不進反退從高峰時期一年培育兩萬多人到112學年只剩下一萬九千多人足足少了一千五百人"},{"start":15293.556,"end":15316.826,"text":"那我剛剛聽到這個部會官員這裡在提到少子化那我們不應該因為少子化的問題我們就不來關注AI人才的培育這個產業的板塊正在移動我想少子化只是其中一個原因該努力的還是要努力那如果有相關的解釋就應該要做研究並且在書面報告裡頭提出來也沒有提出改善方案"},{"start":15317.646,"end":15344.815,"text":"那我想教育委員會的所有委員其實應該是不分朝野的啦也許都難以接受這種說法跟做法那因此我們在專案解凍的第一案呢本席還是要求教育部應該要針對五大信賴產業有關AI人才培育的分工那尤其現在這個內閣又稱作是AI內閣嘛那我想應該要提出更詳細的書面說明同時針對教育部AI人才培育的數量"},{"start":15345.635,"end":15361.21,"text":"不增反減的一個情況提出完整的說明及改進的措施現在也不只是不增反減的問題還有可能供不應求的問題那請教育部就上述議題希望在一個月內提出完整的書面報告以上"},{"start":15366.618,"end":15393.532,"text":"要謝謝委員這個主席這個關心這個AI人才的陪議其實就這個高教因為少子化當然他的比例事實上是增加的這是第一個補充說明第二個就是這個去年開始九月就開始全國因為我們擔心除了台城清教這些研究型大學有許多學校他可能沒有辦法去開出AI的課程所以我們也在線上馬上有這個"},{"start":15395.982,"end":15423.226,"text":"總共多少 二十五學所以這一個人口 這個學生選課的人數跟這一個人才他一定是會增加的所以做這樣的一個補充那當然 召集人如果希望說有一個更這個詳細的一個書面資料我想我們會後再來提供給主席 以上"},{"start":15424.226,"end":15443.755,"text":"好 謝謝部長那一個月內提出完整的書面報告那其餘有沒有其他委員還有意見好 沒有意見的話本案第一案准予動之提報院會那接下來我們處理解凍專案報告第二案請問各位委員 夜市在第21頁請問各位委員有無意見"},{"start":15446.805,"end":15463.281,"text":"那如果没有意见的话我想第二案准予动之提报院会接下来我们处理解冻专案报告案第三案页次在第39页请问有没有哪位委员有意见谢谢柯之恩委员这一案我有些想法"},{"start":15464.062,"end":15490.684,"text":"那个因为你在推展一般教育我们动机的20%嘛那你这边的解冻报告当中你也提及到特别在43页的时候你也提及到有关于营养午餐的部分我要请问一下教育部我说实在的这案跟前面虽然书面报告已经完全结束可是完全都是一样像书面报告第10跟13都是一样营养午餐法治化教育部已经考官5年了我真的要利用这个机会问一下到底什么时候送出版本5年了"},{"start":15492.265,"end":15517.722,"text":"然后不要说这个部分还有包括你们在书面里面有关于像我们高教的这个大家都非常关切的这个大学法的修法你已经举办了九场座谈会一场公听会到底这又什么时候提出来都同样都是一样的状况当初要做这些冻结全部都是因为这个理由啊还有包括你终身教育冻结一千两百万也是啊你到时我们就是要检视修正补习及教育法"},{"start":15518.522,"end":15537.55,"text":"对不起啊部长已经换了两位司长了我都还没有看到院板那这些到底是行政效率的问题还是什么不过每一次我们的动案这边请大家能够赶快提出来特别是营养午餐法讲了几次了到目前为止所以我是不是可以利用这个机会请部长稍微告诉我们一个比较确切的时间好不好这是攸关教育部的行政效率问题啊"},{"start":15541.768,"end":15564.811,"text":"我跟委員先報告補償法上一次有一個專案的討論那天也有跟委員們報告目前因為有財化法以及地方整體在運作面希望能夠給他得到更大的尊重跟他規劃上怎麼樣互動來支持所以剛剛部長也有回應說是不是等財化法也許在七八月會比較明確"},{"start":15566.132,"end":15590.625,"text":"那我們目前草案也有準備但是因為財化法有一些影響那地方能不能夠支援這樣的一個財政的支出跟我們剛才有提到包含有幾個面向像偏鄉地區像營養師或是五蜜等等這些都希望得到最大的支持沒問題但是所以你就告訴我大概怎麼樣你聽起來好像是八月底左月就可以看到了這個就是等財化法"},{"start":15593.447,"end":15598.068,"text":"才辦法要釋憲我們找地方要談的話變成那個標的沒有那麼明確所以我們很樂意趕快跟地方政府來就幾個重要的議題所以大概時間點會是什麼時候我們是不是在剛剛講的才化法的那個明確性當然我們也可以一直在籌備他一明確我們馬上召開會議大概是這樣"},{"start":15616.432,"end":15640.502,"text":"那其他呢?大學法的修法已經搞了那麼久了學生那麼在乎?跟委員報告,大學法剛才您提到的這個公聽會的舉行大概是在111年間那後來這一次在預算審查的時候針對學生代表的比例還有校務會議的一個運作方式那以及那個教師的一個聘任的一個停聘的一些相關建議"},{"start":15641.522,"end":15663.479,"text":"那這個部分我們也有遵照委員當時的建議分別諮詢了協進會公私立大學的協進會我們都有邀請來那有邀請教師團體沒關係啦 那個司長沒問題但是我先說時間點時間點 因為那時候有跟委員答覆就是說收集完意見之後我們會把他相關的意見納入到條文那中好 盡快好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":15666.923,"end":15683.89,"text":"好 謝謝官員的答覆那關於這個第三案還有沒有其他委員有提問好 謝謝如果沒有的話我想我們第三案就准予動之 提報院會接下來我們處理第四案 頁次第49頁請問有沒有委員有提問"},{"start":15691.325,"end":15707.081,"text":"第四案的部分是關於體育署凍結2000萬的部分,我支持解凍,但是針對校園運動教練的部分,其實不是只有體育老師的部分,其實還包含社團的外聘教練,體育班的專業教練等等,這些進入校園的運動教練都是應該進行規範及管理的。"},{"start":15711.525,"end":15740.097,"text":"所以我支持解冻但是希望说针对校员外社团的这些外聘教练之类的管理以及体察体育署这边你可以提供一份书面说明给本席办公室我们希望的是说杜绝这些大人对小孩有恶意的这些伤害加上对一般社会大众跟家长来讲这些都应该是体育署或是教育部应该要制定一套可以依循的规则或是规范体罚霸凌都是不应该校园里面出现的以上"},{"start":15741.294,"end":15767.532,"text":"好謝謝那因為還有兩位委員有意見我想我們接下來郭育群委員然後柯志恩委員那待會可以一併回覆謝謝謝謝主席那我想我們經常在這個新聞當中會看到就是類似被體罰或是被霸凌的一個事件這已經不是幾個個案而已那整個教育的系統其實更需要一個比較完整的一個機制來保護孩子那我想這個部分我當然是支持解凍"},{"start":15768.172,"end":15794.083,"text":"但是我們要怎麼樣來培訓老師朝向所謂的他有正向的一個輔導的能力同時他在領導整個所有的社團當中有一個完善的申訴的一個機制就是讓每一個學生在遇到所謂的不公平的對待的時候其實他還是有地方有人可以幫他就是讓他有一個求助的一個管道那如果這個預算其實沒辦法解凍其實有些制度也許我們可能就真的沒辦法做到"},{"start":15794.363,"end":15821.309,"text":"就算這個沒辦法做到我們也不能說所謂的這個做不全所以一定要有一個足夠的一個資源來就是對待我們的孩子那面對我們的這個保障孩子他們身心上的一個安全的一個環境其實這個部分不應該被延後那我也這個安慰一下就是剛剛這個休保委員所講的我們要怎麼樣提供一個更友善的一個環境然後針對這個部分我們提出一個比較完成的一個計劃跟報告好 以上"},{"start":15822.059,"end":15847.987,"text":"好 谢谢郭玉琴委员那接下来请柯志恩委员好 其实第四案跟第五案都是体育署其实都是一样我还是强调刚刚那个署长回应我的我是说有关于在这个各地方里面对于运动教练的部分大部分都是用UAP那署长刚刚特别讲说这是给地方一种弹性但是我还是要直指像你郑兆村2017年是我们世大运的这个标枪灾经大家都知道对"},{"start":15848.727,"end":15852.609,"text":"但是呢 那個時候他現在目前在母校桃園的瑞園國中還有我們這個向俊賢是我們跳高全國紀錄的保持人他就是在我們國訓中心啊問題是 現在齁這個都是全部用約聘的方法這些全部輔導 你說給我們彈性 可是我覺得這樣有點你怎麼可以讓這樣國訓中心裡面"},{"start":15868.597,"end":15895.184,"text":"這樣子的一個跳高人才你還是用約聘我覺得這個讓人家感覺我們國訓中心是我們體育署可以來做一個主導的你現在還是屬於約聘的人員你這樣就是好像一個這個我們上層是帶頭在做起嘛明明給我們法制化了就是希望它能夠變得更能夠有一個保障啊你什麼都用約聘的那年老的時候怎麼辦所以我覺得這部分教育部還是要拿出一個更決斷的態度否則我們這個法這個把它法制化都是白修的啦好不好 署長"},{"start":15899.526,"end":15914.963,"text":"請署長答覆剛針對陳秀寶委員以及郭益勤委員提的部分整個國教署它已經有滿完整的一個制度申訴跟通報等等以及教育的等等機制那這部分體育署也會再協同國教署再把這個漏洞再檢討"},{"start":15917.485,"end":15946.335,"text":"再把它更完善那这部分我们会再来努力那至于刚刚柯子生委员的部分呢其实我们也是非常希望让我们的选手能够有一个全职的这样子一个待遇所以这部分我们会接下来再加强来督导我们的县市政府我们也会来做一个评比来看看各个县市政府的首长他们在学校专业教练的部分的一个支持是不是能够正面的回应我们的选手的需求谢谢委员"},{"start":15952.505,"end":15976.431,"text":"市長要不要說明一下我們大概十幾年前就修了專任運動教練的聘任那個聘任是必須要他符合那個資格的時候是地方要比照教師他是可以占員而編制要學校有開地方政府支持所以我有跟署長講說像這樣的選手他如果在桃園得到這樣我們會跟桃園地方政府跟他協調一下工具中心有缺啊"},{"start":15982.15,"end":16006.301,"text":"那個基本上沒有犯什麼錯都會一直下去的啦那個基本上就是沒有退休金 約聘僱沒有退休金這就是為什麼很多學校都要用約聘僱老闆有 他有勞退啊 有啊他有加入勞保啊那為什麼不能給人家一個全職full time的你跟你這樣他是full time沒有錯啊沒有 你還是你的約聘僱他只是不是公務人員而已對 但是你的約聘僱這點對很多人來說就是沒有保障嘛好不好還是差蠻多的嘛你"},{"start":16009.921,"end":16038.665,"text":"你還是就差蠻多你國訓中心總是體育署可以來負責吧他其實是全職人員沒有錯我當然知道但是你身份上就是不一樣我們會跟縣市政府積極像台中市他是屬於台中的我們是跟台中市來這邊來積極麻煩一下好不好這個真的是榮耀之後還是要給人家一個餘生生命的一個保障這是很重要的我也請教一下請問約聘僱的話是一年一約還是他是一個常約因為照你們講起來好像約聘僱跟正職沒有差別啊"},{"start":16040.103,"end":16067.939,"text":"所以他是不是一年一約嘛所以是一年一約嘛所以跟正職人員還是有差別啊這個我想回應上面具體一點但是我想這個是所以一年跟兩年一樣還是不一樣其實就是一直下去啦你沒有犯錯沒有沒有學校裡面任何聘任何的老師你說兩年一聘像目前的這些教授跟所謂的一年一聘兩年一聘跟全職完全到他退休這個保障是不一樣我想這部分大家的期待還是在公職啊"},{"start":16068.419,"end":16097.586,"text":"那我還是會去積極的來協調縣市政府這邊來幫忙因為縣市政府要開卻啦 好不好好 好 我想這個希望研議一下好 那我想這個第四案還有沒有委員有意見好 謝謝那第四案我們準與動之提報院會接下來我們處理第五案第五案的頁次第57頁那有沒有 各位委員有意見好 劉淑冰委員"},{"start":16099.963,"end":16113.27,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於在第五案當中是體育署在補助中華民國民意足球協會當中出現到在去年2013年的時候被踢爆就是已經是有這樣子的議領他的這個活動上面的甚至包括壞記事的查核並不清楚"},{"start":16123.135,"end":16127.396,"text":"那他確定我們在你們報告當中也出現他說他有在繳回他的補助款103萬等等那你們後來的這個回應是說今年的時候3月26號已經將本案移送到這個地檢署這邊那還有要慘請內政部評估是否依照人民團體法58條的規定來去處理民意足球協會有沒有這樣的意識不彰的這樣的他的功能不彰的這種情況那因為現在已經過了兩個月了"},{"start":16151.061,"end":16175.698,"text":"所以想要請問的是那現在低檢署的一個進度是怎麼樣第二問題在於說那對於內政部他去評估這些部分你們有些後續的最終結果嗎他甚至你們體育署在未來在做要不要再補助的時候這涉及到這次的這個解凍案的五百萬元的時候你們自己本身內部評估他是不是適合再繼續為了作為你們要去補助的一個標的"},{"start":16177.1,"end":16196.338,"text":"包委員我想這個案子黃國昌委員一直很關心那其實我們體育署過去這一年來我們都是按照黃委員他的要求有一座所有的該執行的執行面那民營足球協會的部分進入的在地檢署的部分進入司法的部分我們就沒有辦法去干涉那這部分我想地檢署應該已經在處理當中那至於他的"},{"start":16199.201,"end":16222.016,"text":"那個人民團體法的部分內政部目前已經有發函給民旅足球協會請他限期改善意思就是說如果七月底前沒有限期改善人民團體法那邊會就是內政部會做進一步的處理那通常按照我們過去的經驗有可能會有一些像類似撤換理事長或是解散等等之類但是他並沒有講我想這部分還是由內政部在積極在處理當中"},{"start":16224.332,"end":16249.902,"text":"那我們的部分目前就是在會計師的查核都已經完成我們也把報告都交給黃委員那後面的這個追繳的部分我們也目前已經發函那接下來也是會由執行署這邊來處理我們都按照公部門的這個節奏一步一步在處理當中就是按照我們的按照規定來處理好那希望說我們本辦也會繼續再去追蹤就是貴屬這邊的當然我們一切都是依法行政沒有問題好OK"},{"start":16252.383,"end":16273.351,"text":"好謝謝官員的回覆我們接下來還有沒有這個本案第五案還有沒有委員有意見有意見好沒有意見的話我想我們第五案准予動之提報院會我們接下來處理第六案第六案的頁次在第65頁有沒有委員有意見有意見"},{"start":16276.786,"end":16301.357,"text":"好大家都很支持教育部啦那他們資料也都來但我想還是再確認一下請問各位委員有無意見好那如果沒有意見的話我想我們第六案就準以動之提報院會接下來我們處理第七案頁次在第83頁那請問各位委員有無意見"},{"start":16304.155,"end":16331.988,"text":"好 那我想第七案我們各位委員也沒有意見好 那我們處理好 我們第七案現在已經到第八了好 那我們處理第七八九案那我們七八九案各位委員有意見"},{"start":16334.753,"end":16361.888,"text":"好 那我們沒有意見我們準語動之提報院會接下來處理第10案那我們頁是在139頁請問各位委員有意見好 我們讓委員翻閱一下看到有些委員還在翻閱好 那如果這個確認沒有意見的話我想我們第11案我們第10案我們準語動之提報院會"},{"start":16363.345,"end":16369.173,"text":"我們接下來處理第11案那頁是在第155頁請問各位委員有無意見好范雲委員謝謝"},{"start":16376.282,"end":16392.568,"text":"那個基本上我是支持第十一案也就是那個解凍啊那但是就是早上的那個報告事項我想在這邊一併就是對教育部有一些要求那第一個就是報告事項第十案關於高教的部分那剛剛那個柯知恩委員有問大學法嘛"},{"start":16395.529,"end":16416.12,"text":"那其實我也有問啦那因為最早剛剛講的那個大學法公聽費其實我們教文委員會自己辦的那當時教育部的承諾好像是說如果沒有記錯的話五月會給我們所以想欽問一下教育部的那個草案的進度那另外就是也是關於第十案一樣是高教"},{"start":16417.381,"end":16436.318,"text":"就是我要求私校產學合作涉及土地建物使用的部分應該要比照國有財產有最低的租金跟利用費的規定那不知道教育部何時會正式公告因為教育部說他們就是會處理但是還是應該有個公告"},{"start":16437.378,"end":16462.277,"text":"讓產學合作就是有一個更公平公開的規定那另外就是我的也是第十案也是跟高教有關的就是大學生的居住困境那我希望高教司跟內政部有一些合作關於社會住宅那這個部分是不是一個月之內可以給我辦公室一個比較明確的進度因為你們好像沒有在回應裡面寫到這一點"},{"start":16464.258,"end":16485.71,"text":"那這是跟高教有關的另外跟國教有關的是報告事項第18案關於高中多元選修教師終點費那目前就是我們接到很多陳情就是我們所謂的108課綱希望有選修課有素養可是老師們反應說開課很辛苦都沒有一點鼓勵"},{"start":16486.91,"end":16513.302,"text":"所以我有希望說你們考慮一下是不是能夠在課程不足的地方比如說能夠有一些終點費的那個鼓勵針對就是多元選修課那如果都穩定之後也許這個機制就不需要了那因為我自己是大學老師我知道開新課很累那最好是開舊課一樣的就加一點新的就好所以應該要鼓勵那這是第一"},{"start":16514.102,"end":16537.584,"text":"報告事項第18項報告事項第18項關於代理教師續新法規這個部分已經跟教育部溝通很多次那可是現在有學校公佈114年招聘檢章的時候還是寫不採紀年資可是這個明明已經是那個就是大法官就說釋憲了"},{"start":16539.105,"end":16558.616,"text":"怎麼就在你們要求前學校公布114年那這個不就是會讓低限的一些代理教師憂慮擔心他們就不適用嗎那這部分教育部是不是也能夠盡快處理那還有別的其他小項我就再跟你們溝通好不好這幾項是不是能夠回應我一下謝謝"},{"start":16559.619,"end":16579.15,"text":"好那我先回應委員關心的產權合作那這個辦法我們已經法規會已經通過了接下來的程序要提不務會議那不務會議通過就會公告實施了所以進度會很快很快是三個月以內還是一個月內對我們的那個不務會議每兩個禮拜開一次所以下次的不務會議可以提公告後再給我辦公室一個報告好再給委員"},{"start":16588.553,"end":16614.356,"text":"那剛才委員垂詢的有關於社會住宅的這個部分跟內政部合部分我們在一個月內會提供相關書面告報給委員來做參考但是大學法的修法因為委員當時也有提示說我們要跟各個利害關係人來做一個溝通那其實我們也有跟學生代表但是最近期對學生代表邀請上面有一些困難因為我們邀請了他們沒有出席所以針對學生代表的這個部分"},{"start":16614.676,"end":16636.417,"text":"我會在另外召開會議來跟他們座談會診他們的意見那針對校務會議還有所謂的教師的部分我們也有分別跟教師團體的代表也開過會那也在會診意見當中那會針對委員在預算審查時期所詢問的幾個重點我們會把它修錄到我們的大學法的一個辦法當中"},{"start":16637.358,"end":16653.545,"text":"那當初雖然有跟委員講說情況比較好的一個狀況可能可以馬上完成可是有些條文確實有一些意見需要彙整那這個部分可能要請委員再給我們一些時間來彙整那你們有沒有預計什麼時候會提出你們的草案呢"},{"start":16654.325,"end":16674.72,"text":"這個我們盡快因為確實現在有些意見比如說委員提到的四分之一學生代表的部分有些學校就認為說這個是有困難執行所以可能還要一些時間來離聚共識那還是要有一個時間吧因為我們之前講的是五月定好我們盡快再處理我們都有陸續在按照這個時程在開會當中所以不能夠說一個時間"},{"start":16681.546,"end":16691.383,"text":"因為你一個時間跳票後應該要說一個新時間吧我們這個是不是容許我們在三個月內再把意見給完成三個月就是八月底好不好好謝謝"},{"start":16693.783,"end":16714.505,"text":"好 委員選修終點費的部分在之前我們就已經有新聞給所有的學校高教這邊也同意我們再把那個公文給委員第二點是有關題序的部分六月份就會修法完成修辦法完成之後各校都會落實那現在委員看到的部分我們再來跟他溝通那馬上就可以落實了 謝謝"},{"start":16720.119,"end":16734.517,"text":"這個第十一案我當然還是就是希望能夠解凍那我想那個青年海外員工計畫其實是現在我們非常重要的一個對外的一個政策那這個計畫已經成功的吸引大概將近有四千名的這個青年參與"},{"start":16736.419,"end":16760.716,"text":"我想這個部分的解凍一定要有這樣子的一個後續的培訓跟輔導還有國際交流的活動上面才能夠再繼續的進行我想這個部分就是表達一下我的立場和意見我想支持青年能夠跨國然後能夠做更進一步的跟世界的交流其實是我們一直希望的 以上"},{"start":16761.317,"end":16762.359,"text":"好 范芸委員"},{"start":16776.476,"end":16789.622,"text":"關於大家都發現姓平的調查人才不足的部分我有一個預算案也是在書面報告的地方是第幾案?"},{"start":16791.323,"end":16793.866,"text":"教育部現在是有補助全國三所性別的研究所的補助"},{"start":16807.605,"end":16837.065,"text":"那可是如果沒有研究所的婦女研究學程大學部的這個部分我覺得也很重要那當然如果你們能夠直接讓這些公私立大學自己就支持是最好的那可是如果沒有的話是不是也能夠考慮就是專照C的委員因為我們有這麼多性評調查可是沒有足夠的專業的人才更深入的研究就會出現一切合法可是調查不夠專業的問題好不好這部分也請你們再考慮之後再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎"},{"start":16840.047,"end":16861.383,"text":"好謝謝范雲委員各位委員還有其他意見好那如果沒有意見我想我們第11案就准予動之提報院會好那我們現在解凍案11案審查完均均准予動之提報院會"},{"start":16868.103,"end":16872.645,"text":"接著繼續進行質詢請陳培鈺委員質詢質詢時間四分鐘主席我超時一下下但我很快我保證我很快好那個有請教育部部長謝謝鄭部長有請鄭部長被質詢謝謝"},{"start":16898.538,"end":16898.558,"text":"國務卿"},{"start":16928.018,"end":16944.074,"text":"目前已經送了嗎送了太好了那行政院簽合的狀況是沒問題現在已經送到行政院好所以我們等行政院簽合那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤那目前你們認為有沒有機會今年可以完成調生"},{"start":16946.53,"end":16965.933,"text":"好啦我們一起期待我看部長答不出來我幫你答但我們一起期待我們也會持續我們一起拜託行政院支持好那接下來我要講的是可是可是在整個體制當中有一些人他也在做類似的工作但是他卻沒有相關的佳績我把相關情況跟部長還有署長說明"},{"start":16967.014,"end":16986.17,"text":"包含有一类是商界到教育局或者是特教资源中心的特教老师他们如果没有授课的部分呢就不会有这个加级那可是如果他只有行政会有行政加级没有特教加级的影响就还好第二类呢有一类老师他是专职新评老师他因为是专职新评所以他不会拿到"},{"start":16986.69,"end":17014.218,"text":"一份一千一百塊的撰稿費他只會有失策費跟交通費甚至我們現在來自現場的案例一個學年可能要做75案到85案而且常常是兩三天內要完成十幾案工作非常吃力不討好可是沒有相關佳績那因為試射到經費我今天先把問題丟出來給教育部要拜託國教署後續我們可不可以這樣我們請請到我們辦公室來開會討論"},{"start":17015.618,"end":17016.159,"text":"下一個是關於偏鄉代理教師的議題"},{"start":17034.099,"end":17056.452,"text":"那目前呢我們要感謝國教署一樣放寬偏鄉代理教師年資採記的認定那可是現在有一個困境又跑出來了例如說因為學校併校因為學校廢校所以他不得去了別的學校或者是他因為考取了不同的縣市的其他偏鄉學校那過去的年資可不可以採記這又要回到相關辦法啦相關經費預算對不對應該部長跟署長看起來是一臉很難給我立刻給我答案對不對"},{"start":17063.175,"end":17090.647,"text":"這個我們基本上只要非屬於個人的一些個人因素那我們是可以採取的好 可是我剛剛說不同縣市就是非屬個人因素應該是說非屬個人因素是整個體制的問題那我認為因為我們陸陸續續收到陳情我認為狀況需要盤點那署長我們是不是也來開會我們來看一下偏鄉代理教師到底在第一線還有哪些現象導致他們沒有辦法累積這個佳績好不好"},{"start":17091.407,"end":17113.063,"text":"我們來盤點 我想我們同意委員所關心的這個我們看怎麼樣來謝謝好 那再來這個問題我覺得比較可怕昨天我看到一個新聞台北市說這三年都找不到代理教師教育局希望教育部放寬三年續聘的年限我不知道教育部的立場是什麼可是根據第一線教師的生命經驗我要說這個問題很大"},{"start":17114.904,"end":17141.688,"text":"當你把代理教師全部放好放滿的時候是不是現場充滿了代理教師還有現場已經在代理教師的人會不會就上不了岸沒有辦法成為正式教師而當現場都是代理教師的時候我們甚至擔心他們的教學品質而教學品質會影響到孩子的受教權我知道你們可能還在研議但是我也很怕很多地方政府開始學台北市政府有樣學樣我認為非常可怕而回過來看我更擔心另外一件事情"},{"start":17142.088,"end":17167.777,"text":"因為花蓮縣政府他們說今年不開正式教師圈那意思就是說他代理圈會開好開滿我不知道蔣萬安跟傅昆齊有沒有講好可是我來自第一線地方教師我自己當過偏鄉的老師我完全不認同這樣的政策我不知道教育部現在研議的進度我更擔心後續有藍白縣市首長有樣學樣但我要積極的拜託教育部這件事情要公正公開透明討論跟研議我不知道你們的看法是什麼"},{"start":17168.437,"end":17195.167,"text":"的確像委員所提這個意見 各縣市可能不一所以我們要廣徵各縣市的意見校長團體 教師團體來審慎的評估是 好 那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤因為這真的會影響到學生不能放任全部現場都是代理教師好 來下一個學生輔導法我們當時都非常關心當時修完法之後我們有四個法要修訂我們現在看到有一個法就是主管機關專業輔導人員設置辦法還沒有預告我們想要知道相關的進度"},{"start":17198.291,"end":17215.323,"text":"好這些在六月份都會處理而且會依文在文會上審議的結果來公佈好因為其實到六月底其實時間真的不多而且距離六月期不是六月底是六月十八只剩下三個禮拜我們很擔心所以拜託你們進度一定要跟上"},{"start":17215.763,"end":17239.139,"text":"还有就是校园内辅导主任主长辅导教师应该遵守的专业伦理规范当时在附带决议的时候有提醒教育部要做这个事情我们也很担心相关的进度我也要确定一下距离六月到期也只剩下三个礼拜还有专辅人员的调整新点的办法目前在行政院的进度如果都还在研议中是不是就后续希望我们可以准时的看到相关的进度署长"},{"start":17239.819,"end":17262.815,"text":"我們跟學特斯會在這一週內到大園辦公室來有一些進度跟您回報沒問題好來再來一樣是特教生的問題特教生的孩子真的很多的困境他落在小學中學大學大學當然我們收到海洋科技大學學生的澄清他們告訴我們聽大園因為他落在學校的資源分配的問題所以學校做了一些我們覺得不大OK的事情"},{"start":17263.315,"end":17285.902,"text":"那來自陳情有聽打員陳情障礙者的陳情還有很多帳權團體告訴我們來下一張問題這麼多一樣人手不足的問題服務的面向沒有涵蓋學生的需求甚至是沒有合約的只要有聽打員說我要跟你學校簽合約保障我們雙方的權益結果學校就不用了這也非常的荒謬還有甚至學校的服務費用提供標準也非常不一致我們認為這些問題很大一樣時間有限我們辦公室機器來找你們討論可以嗎 司長"},{"start":17290.683,"end":17298.609,"text":"好 謝謝司長來 下一個手機管制這一題教育部辛苦了期待後續的座談會我們可以廣邀更多的學生一起座談好不好 保重"},{"start":17300.008,"end":17328.928,"text":"好謝謝來下一張主席你看我很快好來足協的生意部長我之前跟你說過我在去年部長是2024的3月21當時還不是你不好意思好3月21我當時說足協的欠款明細結果到現在已經超過一年多還沒有出來我不知道為什麼但我會持續追蹤要拜託體育署持續幫忙時間有限我不再多說但是足協真的不應該這樣他不能騙你我覺得他騙你他騙你說他還了A還了B還了C但是他為什麼欠款明細不敢出來"},{"start":17329.868,"end":17356.696,"text":"我不知道拜託署長好下一題運動部陳立在即部長我知道你非常關心體育界的孩子在學校的一些狀況部長跟你講有兩個新聞我覺得這個是我們要公開跟孩子道歉我講這麼重的話因為有一批大人沒有檢查出A校的報名資格不符導致B校的小孩喪失全國賽的資格可是他們已經打進全國賽但是卻沒有辦法去比賽這個狀況我不知道您的幕僚有沒有跟您報告再來"},{"start":17357.316,"end":17386.876,"text":"我們甚至看到體育署本來有一個決標有一個標案是關於迷你足球計畫活動是全國性的賽事結果不知道為什麼也停辦了我們來自於基層的聲音看到孩子們很多在體育開開心心運動的權益被犧牲了完全都是因為我們大人的行政疏失我真的於心不忍當然已經事情都發生了我不知道我們後續還可以怎麼彌補我想到有一個是公開道歉我們去跟孩子說明我們讓相關行政機關也要出來扛相關的責任不知道你怎麼看"},{"start":17387.176,"end":17387.244,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":17390.154,"end":17418.492,"text":"報告委員這部分台南市體育局的部分我們會再請他們來妥善處理至於這個全民賽事的部分我們當時的確因為考慮到今年的量能的關係我們就只有舉辦3對3跟街舞我知道就是總統盃嘛希望明年能夠來舉辦我真的覺得很遺憾啦署長說實話其實你知道我對於體育界的孩子們的關心我認為不能只有這樣說我們一定要來後續想辦法我們辦公室可以找體育署來積極開會嗎好"},{"start":17420.133,"end":17437.841,"text":"我認為這件事情不能就只有這樣解決因為我們做出來的行為其他的孩子會看其他的學校會看其他單位會看其他縣市政府會看可以嗎好 下一個我們當然也不傾向辦全國的賽事沒關係 這個細節我們再來討論因為主席已經站起來了我現在不是叫文但回娘家感謝主席多給我這麼多時間"},{"start":17439.082,"end":17464.595,"text":"好 體育署要推後續喔因為體育署成立了運動部之後要推社區運動要把其他國小全國賽事也都停辦我們聽了非常難過不知道為什麼會有這樣的風聲來自民間的風聲我要說我們以日本為借鏡日本他們有社區運動可是他們還是沒有取消所謂教育部主辦的全國性賽事只要有好的賽制規劃其實孩子們還是可以在國小階段有全國性的舞台關鍵不是比賽部長關鍵是交流 學習"},{"start":17468.977,"end":17496.446,"text":"這件事情非常非常的重要在後續運動部成立之後或是現在在這之前因為我們九月會有新的運動部我不知道你們後續的規劃但是我先把問題丟出來給部長要拜託部長在跟新的運動部籌備規劃會議當中把這個問題放進去考慮好不好不管是社區運動還是學校運動好最後最後來一樣暴力的問題好下一張這個你們在排好下一張我要講體育"},{"start":17498.406,"end":17518.677,"text":"裡面有非常多的大人喜歡用這是訓練這個是學習也就是不當的對待用暴力的方法欺負我們的小孩部長我之前跟你講過在美國有一個教練他是一個冠軍教練喔他拉了一下小孩的頭髮他就被fire掉了縱算他是可以拿冠軍的教練但是在我們台灣寶頓我之前有跟你講過來 下一張"},{"start":17520.959,"end":17536.961,"text":"這兩個案子一個是高中排球教練砸小孩用球砸小孩結果結論是身介一致高中籃球隊長年的體罰不是一次是屢次長年的體罰很多孩子都站出來講了最後我們現在看到的結果是調查不成立"},{"start":17537.702,"end":17560.414,"text":"而運動部要成立了體育現場這些孩子們的傷痕真的可以這樣被無視嗎部長我依然焦慮我依然擔心我依然要把這個情況告訴部長我知道不是您可以立刻解決的但是我一併把問題丟出來要拜託部長我認為教育部或者是體育署對於體育暴力零容忍這件事情真的不能遇到所謂冠軍教練就轉彎"},{"start":17563.253,"end":17571.279,"text":"當這樣的個案成立 當這樣的個案變成事實部長 我們難道是在告訴更多運動教練說沒關係 你繼續打孩子當成是訓練嗎這樣的事件屢見不鮮耶 部長好 謝謝部長啦好 最後 謝謝部長"},{"start":17581.684,"end":17611.244,"text":"主席最後一分鐘我感謝署長你之前在一個公開課程宣示兒少教練職能課程非常非常的重要下一張你肯定兒少工作證你也肯定兒少教練職能課程但是我不知道這個肯定我們後續的推動會有多麼艱辛我相信來自現場的聲音一定很多來自現場雜音很多但是我要拜託署長我要拜託部長我要拜託所有現在在幫忙籌備運動部的大人們要把兒少工作證跟兒少教練職能工作課程這件事情"},{"start":17612.004,"end":17626.19,"text":"放進思維因為說實話很多現場大人覺得我就去聽聽頭影片甚至我邊滑手機我們真心在上課我們真心把兒少這件事情放進心裡作為我後續職業生涯當中很重要的依據我不知道好 最後一張"},{"start":17627.566,"end":17645.087,"text":"這個比較困難 署長我可不可以拜託你們喔我不要出所資 我們就請你們直接來開會好不好請教育部幫我收集從六月開始各個單項協會教練裁判的講習課程的課程錄影我們共同來看他們的課程有沒有問題有沒有需要調整我也要拜託教育部提供過去一整年單"},{"start":17646.108,"end":17671.408,"text":"當中各個單項協會教練裁判真能在談到兒少性品禁藥課程的講師名單還有相關課程的設計流程有沒有哪一些問題我們希望真的協助未來在運動部成立之後拿著這些單項運動教練的大人們他們真的對於兒少不會只有性品不會只有知道不能打小孩他必須要全面的認識小孩他必須要徹底更改他過往對兒少的認知否則"},{"start":17673.77,"end":17689.228,"text":"運動部成立之後我們的全民運動署可能以後你會有接不完的陳情是關於這些社區運動教練或是學校裡面的教練繼續不當的肢體暴力對待我們的小孩可以嗎這一張知識資料我們可不可以共同一起來研究署長"},{"start":17690.097,"end":17713.023,"text":"報告委員,我的想法跟您相應蠻接近的,就是除了教練證之外,未來就是18歲以下一定要有兒少工作證來補強,所以這部分我們往這個方向,而且我希望能夠登記,而且能夠做加強強度的管理,所以這部分就有點類似拖音那種制度的感覺,就是不是只有上課而已,我們還是要做一個監管,那我們這個方向來進行。"},{"start":17713.823,"end":17722.095,"text":"阿我這些資料可以給我嗎你們可以拍一下這個投影片如果不清楚我們再來討論好謝謝主席我們時間有限超級無敵謝謝主席讓我超時這麼久謝謝"},{"start":17724.778,"end":17745.947,"text":"這個我想教育體育不分黨派大家一起來監督一起來努力那謝謝官員請回座謝謝陳培鈺委員的質詢張其凱委員比較辛苦也謝謝張其凱委員的酒後那我們先確認一下我們接下來先請張家俊委員質詢張家俊委員張家俊委員不在那我們接下來有請張其凱委員質詢謝謝"},{"start":17765.167,"end":17789.993,"text":"謝謝 請教育部的柏定有請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好柏定 我今天要幫你探討一個吹哨者來陳情台灣教育界非常嚴重的問題就是有性侵的這個狼屍在各大補習班流竄"},{"start":17791.465,"end":17818.864,"text":"狼爪這個陰影 籠罩在前臺這個靴子那我先給你看吹哨者陳情的這個內容這個個案啦 這個狼屍的這個個案啦一定是2014年10月的時候他就犯案了在2015年的3月27號新北市啊 新北的地檢依照防害性自主起訴在2015年的時候判決就確定了喔"},{"start":17820.661,"end":17833.485,"text":"確定依照教育部的這個法令規定這老師應該不能再教了吧他離開了學校竟然跑去補習班了後來有人檢舉在2023年的7月12號補習班官網把他這個狼屍的這個資訊把它下架可是在去年2024年6月22號我們追蹤到他還在補習班待課"},{"start":17849.62,"end":17876.766,"text":"國二的這個理化更嚴重的吹哨者來陳情說除了這個個案之外還有其他的受害者部長你長久在教育界嘛不只是一個個案我們看下一張其實啦包括在高雄台南包括去年七月屏東中華"},{"start":17879.602,"end":17903.479,"text":"台東跟桃園都出現過類似的有前科的狼屍在補習班出沒的這個新聞所以我今天要先問一個最嚴肅的問題這種悲劇這種讓人家心痛的事情為什麼一再發生如果照補習跟進修教育法第九條第六項"},{"start":17907.062,"end":17907.422,"text":"我想這一個"},{"start":17933.047,"end":17950.393,"text":"陳副委員所關心的當然就是在整個那一個流程的監管過程確實有疏漏有疏漏我們今天很明確把它提出來然後要趕快捕捕你一定知道林立寒條款對不對?我們台灣被認為是文壇的新星林立寒就黃思綺那個悲劇"},{"start":17959.403,"end":17983.473,"text":"在他離開這世界的一個月內 我們立法院曾經做了一個很重要的修法教育部那時候也急著要做這件事 對不對那時候的內容 來 看這個 博定你真的看立法院通過補習跟進修教育法第九條修正條文 明定補習班的教職員工都必須要揭露他的真實姓名 對不對"},{"start":17986.155,"end":18001.98,"text":"等一下我會跟你講 現在的這個郎師啊他就用化名 變成一個大漏洞了第二個 為了確保學生的安全補習班申請立案人 或者人事異動的時候你還要附上教職員工的名冊"},{"start":18003.277,"end":18026.105,"text":"跟警察刑事記錄等證明文件讓地方主管機關要核准第三條也很重要條文裡面還明定喔補習班相關人員如果知道有性侵害性騷擾發生的時候要跟相關的這個機關通報杜傑不適任人員進入補教界我要問保定教育部有貫徹這個條文嗎這個叫林毅涵條款"},{"start":18032.307,"end":18056.827,"text":"根委員報告其實當時候補習經濟學法修正以後其實我們就有系統然後現在就要求就是說在申請要有關這些職員相關名冊的時候都要先經過縣市政府在24小時內要通報出來然後在中央這邊會經過三個工作天會跟法務部等等去做調查如果證實屬實就會上這個系統登錄那所有要遵用的時候"},{"start":18060.025,"end":18076.11,"text":"那時候雷利風險去修了一個閥一個月內就修了一個閥結果漏洞百出我剛可以看的不是一個個案是通案這幾年來一直在出現林益海這個事情已經多久了2017年到現在結果每一段時間就撇出來"},{"start":18077.662,"end":18101.55,"text":"教育部要正視這個問題要解決好不好來我進一步謝謝委員提醒我想我們來加強督導然後如果有這些補習班真的違反我們這些相關的一些規定我相信我們應該要跟地方責成要有一個更嚴厲的一個處分甚至不惜這個應該該吊銷這個執照的責任我想我們就朝那個方向來努力我定"},{"start":18102.702,"end":18123.424,"text":"吹哨者來陳情之後 我們去做了一部分的這個追查我現在跟你講 我可以看一下這個畫面我們是怎麼去查這個案子的連那個陳情人他都提到了有人來檢舉說提供那個萃跟戴的上面那個手機的這個畫面他們在上面討論說有一個老師在這邊你看左邊這個畫"},{"start":18125.908,"end":18151.226,"text":"這個都是來催哨者提供之後然後之後有很多人陳情他就提到說這個老師還在補習班教書現在都還在喔然後媒體也開始去追這幾天連媒體昨天都報導了那張圖就是一個補習班右邊那個人就是那個老師他教這幾天人還要去補習班你看這是多大的一個漏洞然後我進一步去追我從那個補習班的那個網站上面去看還可以看到他的"},{"start":18155.162,"end":18156.763,"text":"老師的這個資訊你看這麼明目張膽完全不符合我們這個規定甚至他去補習班帶課這影片都有2024年的6月23號都還在上課結果你說你修了法你要杜絕這個悲劇在發生悲劇就一直在產生啊我今天跟你講這個個案我去追每個畫面都有等一下我會把名字給你"},{"start":18185.407,"end":18191.831,"text":"把這個普及班給你 好不好那更重要的不是只有個個案它是一個通案 我剛才說的個案也有 中華也有 轉型也有"},{"start":18196.974,"end":18211.587,"text":"這一個案子委員所關心的事實上已經因為他到這個沒有立案的補習班去教然後經過這個吹哨子這個舉發那地方政府也已經立即集合然後勒令這個老師離開這個補習班"},{"start":18216.651,"end":18221.714,"text":"這一個地方政府也裁划了這一個補習班有25萬的這個罰款那我想我非常同意委員所提的我們怎麼樣去全面的去了解然後能夠杜絕這樣的一個他已經違法他本來就不應該當老師那我想這我們會積極來查跟地方處理中"},{"start":18237.763,"end":18260.921,"text":"現在進行是嘛對不對去把它處理好那整個處理過程你給我一個很明確的處理的這個報告好不好第二更重要它是一個通案嘛來所以我們明確來做幾件事情第一個由教育部發函給各個補習班你要落實林義海這個條款請他們前面清查到底老師裡面有沒有性侵害或者是性騷的這是條文裡面明定的嘛對不對"},{"start":18262.128,"end":18278.976,"text":"可以嗎?可以教育部發函給各埔齊班馬上做這件事情第二個裡面提到的就是要他的名冊要實名制嘛對不對不允許他化名或者是假名要清查好不好好 第三個還有一個大的問題其實啦為什麼這次吹哨者會來檢舉"},{"start":18280.797,"end":18299.864,"text":"他們就是要幾發查不到資料 只好找立法委員啊我們現在有一個大的問題就是他們如果上去 點上去 這個補習班可以看到老師的名字可是另外他如果是不恰當 不當的這個老師 你要讓他可以查得到啊你有建立一個系統嘛 就是不當的這個老師嘛 對不對可是一般人上不去嘛 是不是這樣"},{"start":18301.377,"end":18324.229,"text":"一般人上不去嘛只有教育體系看得到嘛那這樣就找不到人啊所以是不是要把這兩個系統要整合好不好要讓它公開透明這是你當初修法一個重點嘛把這兩個系統我剛剛講了把這兩個系統整合起來讓一般人他如果受到不平的待遇或者他要出來要檢舉他可以上這個網就會查得到說這個老師是不恰當的好不好我們現在馬上做這件事情可以嗎"},{"start":18325.551,"end":18341.7,"text":"好 謝謝我們不允許下一個悲劇再產生不要讓任何的狼屍在我們的補習班流竄好 謝謝謝謝張祺凱委員質詢 官員請回座我們接下來有請林月琴委員質詢"},{"start":18355.319,"end":18359.242,"text":"好 主席麻煩我們的部長我請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好"},{"start":18366.511,"end":18392.967,"text":"部長午安今天想當然今天處理的是教育部的預算不過這有幾個問題想跟部長做討論看看是否能有未來有更好的改善方向首先我一直本來就一直很關心交通安全教育過去也多次去詢問相關部會推動的進度所以想問部長目前各級學校實施交通安全教育的狀況這個我去年也質詢過那你現在有沒有掌握到整個狀態是什麼"},{"start":18396.24,"end":18413.769,"text":"我想這個交通安全這個部分我們目前也有分五個這個步驟在做這個實時交通安全教育包括這個老師的真人包括這個學生的一個分個這個年級階段也有一些不同的一些"},{"start":18414.629,"end":18417.111,"text":"學校老師都受教育了嗎?"},{"start":18444.669,"end":18462.864,"text":"教育部這邊到底意欲何為就是說如果今天三年級才要上交通安全教育那四年級的孩子會不會在交通上受到傷害呢五年級會不會 六年級會不會那我這邊都已經事實上是這麼寬裂的狀態底下你都還沒辦法達到百分之百可是相較於歐"},{"start":18465.226,"end":18490.583,"text":"運輸安全協會他建議應該要含到最低的教學時數南韓也因為他實施了10小時的交通安全教育之後讓他們的死亡兒少的交通死亡少掉96%然後受傷減少了63%事實上是非常好的效果可是我們目前看到我不知道就想問部長說你曉得這些大概你現在能清楚的掌握到數據嗎"},{"start":18498.578,"end":18514.454,"text":"我們跟委員這邊之前一直有合作那委員也給我們協助五階段的課程但更重要的是在課綱到教科書這個布定課程這邊的體系就是能夠比較代表我們有沒有把握學校落實的情況"},{"start":18515.995,"end":18528.663,"text":"剛剛講的是課程教學第二個是老師的責任剛剛部長已經講第三個面向是我們可能在教科書有沒有真的編出來也很實際的跟國教院有合作一個獎勵計畫也是謝謝委員的指導最後一個是"},{"start":18531.605,"end":18551.19,"text":"學校間對於有一些剛剛講的增能後像五階段課程能不能夠真正的實踐出來一年級中年級到高年級到高中那這五個階段的課程能不能夠找有實驗的種子學校這也是委員協助知道只是這個的落實跟它的效數可能我們還要持續再努力"},{"start":18551.81,"end":18579.66,"text":"我覺得希望你們這次交給我報告可不可以真實反映現況真的我們去看到問題點然後確實掌握數據然後逐步的去改善可能沒有辦法一次到位可是不能去年到現在我還是沒有看到你們真實樣態的顯現數據可是現在給出來的數據還是一樣比較是很大的就是都覺得做得很好那我希望不能自我感覺得疲勞的交通事故史上還是在佔比還是最高的"},{"start":18580.02,"end":18582.581,"text":"總共超了7年 從105年 每一年我看那個報告 未來的工作重點建議都相同"},{"start":18599.275,"end":18616.696,"text":"那以後是不是113年114年都不用看這報告了反正只要複製抄上複製貼上就好了嘛所以我覺得部長能不能了解一下究竟發生了什麼困難讓業務單位沒有辦法依據建議做出修正又或者是目前其實有開會討論因為我看不到就是複製貼上"},{"start":18619.111,"end":18639.377,"text":"因為過去都只有做全年度的分析啊那我們未來會做更細部的會按計做分析會針對他的發生交通事故的樣態後邊提出來你們更細的如果你說這邊事實上不能完整表達你們意思可是問題是我只看你們的報告裡面我真的看到七年來都是這樣子"},{"start":18640.077,"end":18661.557,"text":"那不太對啊 那你真的要解決校安的問題 應該要有具體的未來的工作重點然後再來看問題三 就是說 想知道我們的特教資源的供給部分因為預計特教法20條為了保障幼兒的一個學習權 主管機關必要時事實上是要求家長配合建府"},{"start":18662.498,"end":18686.909,"text":"可是實務上我們很難看到這樣的狀況家長如果不去,苦了誰呢?苦了第一線的教保人員犧牲的權益又是誰呢?當然就是孩子因為要學住的那名孩子的學習權益跟同班的整班教學都會受到影響這看起來很小的問題可是其實也是打擊第一線的現場人員的士氣沒有足夠的特教資源支持他們會越來越多人不願意留在"},{"start":18687.83,"end":18696.624,"text":"第一線所以我認為教育部應該提出具體的協助措施所以部長這部分是不是可以提出對應的辦法來做解決"},{"start":18700.683,"end":18721.243,"text":"跟委員說明我想家長會不願意孩子受鑑定應該還是有錯誤的觀念認為會對孩子家長負面表現可是重點是今天整班的孩子都同時受害所以我們將來應該針對要不要再強度強一點否則的話有時候一個班上九個有特殊需求的孩子你覺得老師怎麼帶得下去"},{"start":18721.623,"end":18737.403,"text":"所以我想我們將來一定要跟家長多做說明讓他們清楚知道得到鑑定之後可以得到更多的特效資源協助最後我提出這三個希望你們對於交通安全教育我剛剛已經提了是不是應該要趕快給我相關的資料"},{"start":18738.504,"end":18758.4,"text":"不要又再像去年給的這些數據若不正確的話通常沒有辦法應對後面的問題還有校安通報可不可以給我更詳細的不是你們現在複製貼上的這樣的一個報告還有特殊教育按照20特殊教育法20條裡面看怎麼去延伸可以更具體的來協助幼教的現場好 以上謝謝謝謝林月琴委員質詢 官員請回座接下來我們有請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":18776.953,"end":18795.603,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長 我自己來自高教體系我想對於一個學者基本學術上面的integrity"},{"start":18796.559,"end":18825.412,"text":"是高教教育的基本否則的話我們高教所有學術上面基本的要求乃至於標準全部都會崩毀我為什麼特別講這件事情我老實講我難以想像我沒有拿到一個特定學校特定專業的博士我在我的履歷表上面造假結果整個政府從上到下都在幫我掩護"},{"start":18827.861,"end":18853.256,"text":"我看的是瞠目結舌我為什麼說我看的是瞠目結舌我一頁一頁帶部長看賴清德任命駐英公使江雅琪我們的科技部就已經認證學歷造假當初科技部在學倫大會上面是怎麼推翻法律專業學門七位教授一字訣認定"},{"start":18855.982,"end":18875.659,"text":"違反學術倫理這個禮拜四科技部來的時候我一定會問到底當初這個學倫大會是怎麼開的這個是科技部要負責任的事項但是可以確定的是什麼事情可以確定的事情是"},{"start":18877.008,"end":18893.473,"text":"他這個個人資料表明顯學歷造假現在你看的是科技部的嘛這個科技部的部分禮拜四我一定會要科技部好好地說明但我現在我公開質疑這件事情以後我接到的投訴是什麼"},{"start":18894.878,"end":18923.853,"text":"我接到的投訴是他不僅僅在向科技部申請相關的計畫的時候在學歷表上面做虛偽不實的登載跟他在取得特定教授的資格任聘的資格上面的資料也有記載我剛剛前面都已經把它秀完了我不用一樣一樣帶你看我相信你們高教師的人應該都已經準備好了"},{"start":18925.857,"end":18933.807,"text":"現在我不理解的事情是人家有跟教育部檢舉檢舉還附證據說他的學歷明顯登實登錄是不實的"},{"start":18942.25,"end":18968.378,"text":"來我們看一下專科以上學校教師資格審定辦法第43條教師資格審查履歷表在履歷表上面有登載不實那教育部可以通過資格審定嗎我明明沒有拿到那個博士我在我的履歷表上面寫我有拿到這個博士然後教育部還通過審定這是怎麼回事這個檢舉後來教育部怎麼處理的來請部長"},{"start":18971.72,"end":19000.528,"text":"跟委員回報那這個當時對不起啊把麥克風打開這樣聽不到跟委員回報那這個當初我們就是說學校世新大學宋省他第一就是助理教授這一級用博士學位的時候因為世新大學已經是所謂的我們自省的學校所以他相關的一些教育部管不到不是教育部管不到因為學校完成了相關他專業領域還有博士學位我先直接問啦是"},{"start":19002.109,"end":19024.293,"text":"這個案子有沒有人跟教育部檢舉我上任之後目前是還沒有收到回去清查好是回去清查來請部長部長教育部在審定有關於教師任用資格的時候不管是助理教授還是副教授還是教授那個教授證書都是教育部審定的嗎"},{"start":19025.069,"end":19047.405,"text":"是 到最後這個 當初我拿的中研院的聘書是我們中研院自己審定這個我知道但其他學校的應該都是教育部審定了嘛到最後都是教育部來發證那現在問題來了啊在學歷履歷表上面登載不實然後還可以通過審定這是怎麼回事啊現在他不是只有這個人個案的問題喔"},{"start":19049.847,"end":19071.306,"text":"這絕對不是只有個案的問題啊因為這個案子一旦原則下去了以後啊我跟部長報告以後天下大亂以後天下大亂啊我的基本的履歷表上面啊我愛怎麼填就怎麼填啊我有沒有取得哪一所大學的博士我愛怎麼填就怎麼填啊可以這樣嗎 部長我想你這一個"},{"start":19075.803,"end":19085.471,"text":"這一個學歷的來源跟他頒發的學歷應該要精準這當然是教育部所規範的那我現在的問題就來了明明就出現了這麼嚴重的不實結果教育部上上下下沒有人要處理這件事跟我前舉的人說這位江教授似乎後台很硬從教育部到當初的國科會"},{"start":19106.035,"end":19129.708,"text":"沒有人敢處理我想跟委員報告不是這樣事後因為我有看到媒體的一個揭露他確實是在杜倫大學裡面Faculty of Social Science and Health那個是法學院嗎他不是法學院 是嘛他下面是有一個School of Law對啊 但問題是他是School of Law出來的嗎是嗎 不是啊"},{"start":19132.079,"end":19157.834,"text":"他是社會學系出來的啊這個基本的客觀事實我還要再複述嗎還要再幫他辯解嗎還是教育部部長今天要在立法院公開跟全國所有的學子如果從Faculty of Social Science and Health基本上他不能稱作法學院是 你講得很好嘛所以上面就登載不死啦現在大家包括一堆學者我覺得到一堆學者"},{"start":19161.584,"end":19175.681,"text":"跟我檢舉說我們的教育部沒有打算要處理這件事耶所以現在是怎麼樣政治後台印顏色對了連教育的基本立場都可以棄守是這樣嗎"},{"start":19178.086,"end":19190.382,"text":"官委員報告陳儒剛才這一頁那個slide所秀出來的就確實我們如果針對教師資格相關的一些登載不實或者是相關的一個違規的事情我們確實會來查處啦那這個這個案子有查處嗎"},{"start":19193.306,"end":19213.172,"text":"因為我們目前這個我剛才有跟您報告的這個案子原本是由世新大學授權治審的一個結果所以我們如果再會請學校來做確認就是說當初他提報的相關的一些那個學歷到底是怎麼樣的我就直接跟你講啦一路造假"},{"start":19214.397,"end":19238.427,"text":"一路造假到2021、2022被揭發了以後才趕快改中間有兩關喔我帶部長看一下這個這個齁剛剛在講的是助理教授級的嘛來看一下來來來來海大這個是副教授級的他敢掛副教授就是拿到教育部審定的證書了嘛對吧"},{"start":19242.95,"end":19267.721,"text":"跟委員報告這如果是兼任的我必須要這個是不是在確認因為學校有時候他是會學校自己給他聘書沒有關係你們回去清查我願意給你時間因為顯然這件事情發生的時候你也還沒有當部長那這位司長可能也還沒有上任我願意給你們時間這個案子回去查清楚那請司長注意一件事情"},{"start":19269.113,"end":19287.734,"text":"最讓我無法接受的是什麼教育部有沒有因人設施還為他改辦法我再說一次喔教育部有沒有因人設施還為他改辦法現在市長可能在搖頭嘛可能是因為你還沒有看到我下一張投影片我直接秀給你看"},{"start":19291.145,"end":19319.347,"text":"為了這個案子專科以上學校違反送審教師資格規定處理原則本來是怎麼規定的教師資格審查履歷表登載不實這就違反了結果到了2021年8月25號的時候教育部突然改法規突然改法規說這個教師資格審查履歷表上面的不實"},{"start":19320.717,"end":19346.763,"text":"包括身份資料誤算或其他類似的顯然錯誤後來就是用這個逃脫的先幫他改辦法最後再處理這個辦法部長 市長你們回去看全部都有為什麼這件事情會讓我瞠目結舌我們的教育部為了一個在履歷上面造假不實的人去改辦法我的老天啊"},{"start":19348.103,"end":19365.473,"text":"台灣的高教體系可以這樣搞喔2021年出來了以後先幫他改辦法再來開會這不是一年設施是什麼當初這個辦法怎麼改的誰主導的部長 師長回去查清楚可以嗎可以嗎可以可以 需要多久一個禮拜夠不夠好 我們一個禮拜吧一個禮拜之內"},{"start":19376.81,"end":19393.239,"text":"給我書面回覆我下一次會繼續追問這個問題那要不然的話按照你們心感的辦法事情大條了啊事情大條了啊以後我們再申請高教資格的時候教育部甩鍋啊那履歷表上面青菜蝦蝦的都沒關係啦有這種事喔一個禮拜喔 可以齁可以 好 謝謝"},{"start":19403.407,"end":19420.972,"text":"好 謝謝黃國昌委員質詢那官員請回座這個真的是動搖國本這個亂寫說是誤寫或誤騰這個我想會有很大的誤會那我想這個大家一定會積極處理啦那我們接下來有請徐欣盈委員質詢謝謝主席 本席有請鄭部長"},{"start":19431.875,"end":19432.239,"text":"有請部長被質詢 謝謝"},{"start":19437.711,"end":19466.253,"text":"委員好部長好部長本席今天想用一點點時間來跟您討論一下我們現在台灣的技職教育我們這個技職教育有所謂的證照制度我想您了解證照制度它可以是技能能力的一個檢定但是它不應該過度的依賴不應該過度依賴現在一張證照並沒有辦法代表我們這些"},{"start":19466.753,"end":19490.863,"text":"學子的實作能力您認同嗎也沒有辦法對接瞬息萬變的產業需求確實我們在這當然要看它的歷史脈絡過去我們的證照確實是跟過去這個台灣比較是傳統產業很多的這個產業裡邊它確實反映了它的工作能力跟它所需要的專業資源您剛一直講過去所以我們現在"},{"start":19492.223,"end":19509.233,"text":"現在確實在因為產業的一個隨著這個科技的快速發展確實會有一些落差所以我們應該要趕快來調整我們的政策現在我們看到教育部的統計我們全台高職生持有證照的數量有2.3萬"},{"start":19513.575,"end":19529.34,"text":"但是眾所周知的我們的很多技職畢業生在職場上他沒有辦法發揮他的所長所以反映出證照和實務的巨大落差所以是不是可以來調整"},{"start":19531.12,"end":19552.369,"text":"可以來調整我們可以來推動這個證照品質指標的分級制度那我們讓我們的學子可以針對他未來的就業有一個對接的能力也有一個明確的學習的方向也就是說我們學子他所學的跟產業的實用性應該要有一個"},{"start":19553.109,"end":19582.469,"text":"一個對接的關係那除了這個本席等一下你一併回答接下來就是說本席接著進入第二個就是說我們現在的技職體系感覺上被升學主義滲透我們都很了解我們技職體系培養出來的我們其實應該是要幫助他打造職場的通道而不是幫他鋪地毯上大學吧您認同吧"},{"start":19583.71,"end":19596.544,"text":"所以我們不應該讓我們的整個的技職教育變成教孩子考高分 考試考高分其實我們應該是強化他的技能"},{"start":19598.186,"end":19617.321,"text":"這個部分我們也希望我們能夠逐步來逆轉因為現在感覺還是以升學學歷至上這樣的文化在技職體系是非常不好的所以我們希望能夠提升學生的學用合一以及職涯發展率以上這兩個部分是不是可以簡單的"},{"start":19618.081,"end":19631.936,"text":"感謝我們關心計時教育的人才培育確實我們我上任以後也一直責成這個國教署跟這一個計時師怎麼樣讓我們技高的學生真正能夠學到一技專長而且能夠為產業所用所以你們做了些什麼"},{"start":19635.519,"end":19641.683,"text":"就是要改善這種現況你們有什麼樣的策略呢我想這個部分我們當然也會透過一個跨部會比如說簡單來講我們現在目前的一個計時證照是來自於勞動部來規劃但是我想我們人才包括產業裡面所需要的人才怎麼樣讓剛才委員所說的這個學用減少它的落差而且能夠真正反映出這個它的能力本位而不是只是在這個"},{"start":19666.68,"end":19674.806,"text":"那本席請教有沒有把這種即職就業導向你設立一個指標納入即職院校的評鑑現在有沒有這樣"},{"start":19676.53,"end":19682.692,"text":"因為我們的技職學生我們就是要讓他整個可以順利進入職場當然也許還可以更好簡單來講我們在技職這個校園的一些評鑑就是說看學生畢業以後他從事的相關領域的這個工作他的一個就業力到底是怎樣這事實上是有納進來的"},{"start":19698.338,"end":19713.31,"text":"那當然如果委員覺得還可以更細緻也歡迎委員隨時讓我們知道看怎麼樣能夠在整個課程設計包括人才培育上能夠有一個更好的一些模式我們一起來努力那最後還有一個點就是"},{"start":19714.271,"end":19727.906,"text":"我們現在這個整個技職教育的師資斷層還有產學鍛煉這個問題也很大我們全台灣技專院校具備五年以上的實務經驗的專任教師比例"},{"start":19729.689,"end":19753.837,"text":"遠遠低於OECD的平均值所以本席也了解因為很多的技職教師他很多都是學術出身比較缺乏產業經歷產業的一些專家所謂的業師可能會因為他兼課的一些限制或者是他們對於待遇的部分也許太低拒絕授課"},{"start":19754.617,"end":19782.665,"text":"所以這一塊我們要為我們的學子打造一個要有更好的這種師資給他們然後加上我們的制度可以協助他們能夠順利的進入職場甚至這種產學合作我們應該要朝這個方向所以有關強化這種業師進入學校能夠提高終點還或者他的交通補助那甚至呢 技職教師的升等機制你們看看可不可以增設產業貢獻指標"},{"start":19785.547,"end":19793.74,"text":"讓業界的實務合作成果然後不管是他的專利研發技術整個的轉移納入整個的考評可以嗎"},{"start":19795.74,"end":19813.447,"text":"根文報告我們目前確實都是現況也就是這樣在做那當然我們怎麼樣因為隨著科技產業那你剛剛我本席講的你這種有業界實務經驗的專任教師比例這個太少"},{"start":19815.051,"end":19842.251,"text":"因為這因為我們跟我們報告確實我們科技產業委員也本身是科技人嘛我們看到許多的這些科技產業確實把STEM的這些的這個專業人才就大量吸引那我們現在除了現有的這些技高或者技專校院的這些老師他六年他必須要自己有這個產業的這個半年的一個經驗我們同時也希望特別在技高裡面我們也看到了一些"},{"start":19843.332,"end":19862.568,"text":"科技產業的人才他們怎麼樣來協助我們這些技高或者技專校院的這些教學的一些投入可是這些產業他們就一直的會反應說我們的技職教育熄火了技職教育熄火 百工百業就熄火所以我們包含師師的培育包括這樣的一個業師怎麼樣進入到學校變成一個正式的老師我們事實上包含這一個"},{"start":19872.256,"end":19885.515,"text":"實施培藝藝術師也都做了一些更彈性的一些人才延攬上的規範那今天本席提的這三大方面是不是可以請我們"},{"start":19886.853,"end":19901.738,"text":"委員所看到的問題確實也是我們現在一直在積極要努力來改善包含在施施包含這個產學的這些落差裡面能夠怎麼樣去培養包括證照能不能夠培養出的人才剛好能夠讓產業能夠使用不是只是一張紙在那裡"},{"start":19908.36,"end":19927.239,"text":"因為確實它是真的是有一些落差所以我也跟我們同仁這麼講一個季高生他今天拿了十張二十張的證照但是如果不能為產業所用看起來這個證照它事實上我們就認真的就是幾張紙在那裡因為早期他"},{"start":19928.2,"end":19949.237,"text":"有證照以及證照的時候大概早期的證照還沒有畢業很多的公司都已經先畢業了他們是真正有一技之長就是說那時候的證照跟這個產業它是能夠銜接的所以我想所以現在這種現況我們加油好不好我們確實是加速來努力謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":19954.81,"end":19958.37,"text":"好 谢谢徐欣颖委员咨询官员请回座"},{"start":19960.327,"end":19982.998,"text":"接下來有請何新淳委員質詢何新淳委員何新淳委員不在接下來請蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在翁曉琳委員質詢翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在謝龍介委員質詢謝龍介委員謝龍介委員不在"},{"start":19986.92,"end":20001.027,"text":"政政前委員質詢政政前委員政政前委員不在賴會員委員質詢賴會員委員不在賴會員委員不在那我們接下來請羅明財委員質詢羅明財委員羅明財委員不在"},{"start":20004.289,"end":20025.754,"text":"李博毅委員質詢 李博毅委員 李博毅委員不在蔡易瑜委員質詢 蔡易瑜委員不在蔡易瑜委員不在好 那我想今天特別感謝教育部以及各教育部有關單位列席那因為我們今天有這個相關的解凍案"},{"start":20026.814,"end":20054.497,"text":"有与各位有关那也特别感谢高雄市政府派员来参与那也因为相关的案件有关那也非常感谢各位的时间那还有委员以及部会官员都非常辛苦那我们今天登记质询的委员均已发言完毕另有万美林委员谢龙介委员翁晓琳委员提出出面质询关于今天会议做如下决议报告及询答完毕"},{"start":20055.217,"end":20083.652,"text":"委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關儘速以書面答覆114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部解凍案33案業宜審查完略均准與動之提報院會報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":20088.165,"end":20088.205,"text":"謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}