{"error":false,"id":["167134"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167134,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167134","日期":"2026-01-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-19T09:13:35+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-19T09:29:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8512d69ea5b1fa126bbc02888e1e08ec37174637afa3742303e82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:13:35 - 09:29:04","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就「高級中等學校以下學校供餐與飲食教育之執行情形、困難、挑戰與因應對策」以及地方財源補助問題等進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、教育部部長鄭英耀列席，就新修正發布之「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.654718750000001,"end":6.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.629093750000001,"end":7.793468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.93596875,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.72909375,"end":15.724718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.825968750000001,"end":23.200343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.672843750000002,"end":24.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.41534375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.38034375,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.59034375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.74971875,"end":60.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.494093750000005,"end":141.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.59846875000001,"end":121.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.29534375,"end":168.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.38846875000002,"end":169.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.29971875,"end":174.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.09221875,"end":176.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":179.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.17159375,"end":181.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.84221875,"end":186.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.12909375,"end":182.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.19596875000002,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.95534375000003,"end":188.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.38971875000001,"end":191.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.37659375,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.37221875,"end":207.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.40596875,"end":192.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.34034375000002,"end":216.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.92971875,"end":225.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.14409375000002,"end":221.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.39659375000002,"end":227.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.70846875,"end":238.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.52971875000003,"end":250.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.94971875000002,"end":252.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.48096875000002,"end":259.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.84284375000004,"end":266.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.71096875,"end":284.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.54096875,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.18909375000004,"end":312.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.30284375,"end":286.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.03909375,"end":301.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.57284375,"end":314.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.05784375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.71784375000004,"end":360.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.41784375000003,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.61596875000004,"end":386.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.31284375,"end":388.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.39221875000004,"end":390.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.79721875,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.04159375,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.45409375,"end":402.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.07784375,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.17034375000003,"end":415.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.81409375000004,"end":416.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.89409375,"end":420.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.47159375,"end":425.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.21346875,"end":430.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.34409375,"end":427.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.93034375,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.74846875000003,"end":435.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.84471875,"end":440.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.57846875,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.46909375,"end":470.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.52721875000003,"end":486.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.15346875000006,"end":489.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.47784375000003,"end":497.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.29534375000003,"end":495.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.07159375000003,"end":497.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.62409375000004,"end":500.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.27784375000005,"end":503.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.18471875000006,"end":506.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.87159375000005,"end":509.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.89221875000004,"end":511.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.0522187500001,"end":524.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.7934687500001,"end":520.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.84409375,"end":520.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.08409375,"end":558.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.43346875,"end":560.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.26409375,"end":564.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.78284375,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.1497187500001,"end":566.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.46159375,"end":567.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.4822187500001,"end":574.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.01284375,"end":576.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.1140937499999,"end":578.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.83096875,"end":583.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.7665937500001,"end":586.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.4497187500001,"end":600.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.86971875,"end":618.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.27409375,"end":604.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.5759687500001,"end":619.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.8328437499999,"end":623.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.4822187500001,"end":625.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2622187500001,"end":630.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.0634687500001,"end":629.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.7722187500001,"end":630.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.6328437500001,"end":637.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.7547187499999,"end":634.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.83846875,"end":641.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.70721875,"end":642.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.94721875,"end":646.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.0734687500001,"end":647.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.6259687500001,"end":651.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.27534375,"end":652.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.8447187500001,"end":653.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.02596875,"end":653.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.4309687500001,"end":655.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.84409375,"end":657.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.7509687500001,"end":660.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.38346875,"end":664.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.28159375,"end":685.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.07659375,"end":681.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.8147187500001,"end":695.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.68221875,"end":693.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.4834687500002,"end":698.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.4028437500001,"end":713.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.65784375,"end":715.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.51409375,"end":716.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.22284375,"end":720.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.6147187500001,"end":722.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.65659375,"end":722.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.4665937500001,"end":727.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.0522187500001,"end":731.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.54971875,"end":739.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.27409375,"end":741.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.69159375,"end":741.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.82221875,"end":744.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.46721875,"end":747.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.84659375,"end":748.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.8972187500001,"end":749.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.1797187500001,"end":749.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.97284375,"end":761.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.0234687500001,"end":750.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.38909375,"end":771.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.7078437499999,"end":779.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.43221875,"end":781.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.32659375,"end":783.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.16596875,"end":796.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.1953437500001,"end":784.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.8559687500001,"end":801.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.53846875,"end":819.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.5403437500001,"end":828.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":821.0165937500001,"end":821.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.72471875,"end":826.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.04096875,"end":827.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.2053437500001,"end":841.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.6428437500001,"end":837.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.3172187500002,"end":867.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.81846875,"end":847.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.84971875,"end":863.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.80284375,"end":877.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.04159375,"end":892.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.71846875,"end":895.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.33409375,"end":924.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.31659375,"end":903.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.2990937500001,"end":903.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":918.4865937500001,"end":920.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.35909375,"end":925.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.74284375,"end":928.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":928.51034375,"end":929.67471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.75,"end":31.526,"text":"谢谢赵伟我们是不是请部长好 有请郑部长伟恩好部长好我想就1月12号你所公布的有关于教师解评办法的一个修正其实老实说就是有关于校师会议的一个检讨那你对于这样公布之后你知道会造成非常大的反弹吗还是你认为一公布完之后所有的校师会议就可以被解决了"},{"start":32.878,"end":59.992,"text":"當然這樣的一個修訂事實上要全部解決我們第一現場的這些老師們所有的這些壓力的數我想是沒有辦法的但是我也要跟委員報告這一年多來我北中南分區跟老師們座談也跟家長協會教師協會家長團體跟民間關心台灣教育的許多團體做了許多的座談包含"},{"start":60.552,"end":81.07,"text":"好没关系所以你部长做了非常多了好很好11月24号在我们公听会完毕之后呢大概就只有一次的邀请所有的各代表过来所以说呢来陈述意见但是呢说实在的教育部只是提出了一个修法的方向但是呢没有一些明确的文字表达所以我们就说你是在表达你的立场"},{"start":81.71,"end":110.283,"text":"我也同样跟部长一样而且我本身就是培育师资的一个老师所以不管是我的第一线的学生还有包括在各区里面听到也有很多老师跟家长大家都希望说能够校园里面能够亲师关系都是和谐跟部长的期望是一样的但是我们就来检视你1月12号所公布的这部分到底有没有办法让我们整个校园大家已经过去来说已经是纷扰不休有没有办法得到停止我们先来看一下好了"},{"start":110.743,"end":127.897,"text":"我们为了要让这个校事会议不要每一件事情都进到我们所谓的全球独步的一个校事会议你们这一次呢先成立了一个叫受理审议小组没错吧受理审议小组里面呢就是在原来的校事会议当中少了行政人员这也没错吧"},{"start":128.297,"end":141.622,"text":"消息会是五个人 受理小组是四个人所以你是教师 家长 然后再加一个专家然后呢有校长 那校长本身是没有投票权那我想请问部长 那这个专家是谁来聘请"},{"start":142.939,"end":167.766,"text":"專家還是由學校裡面有校長來聘請然後校長沒有投票權來校長可以來決定校長沒有投票權因為你說要維持中立但是校長回到校事會議之後呢校長又有投票權所以我只請問這個受理也就是我們校事會議的會前會跟所謂的這個真正的校事會議有沒有跌船駕屋的這樣子的一個功能上面的一個漢格"},{"start":170.373,"end":170.753,"text":"跟委員報告我們這裡邊怎麼樣去"},{"start":180.419,"end":206.983,"text":"兒少權益能夠確保不要跟我講這個你只告訴我有沒有重疊嗎有沒有跌床加烏嗎是沒有跌床加烏的怎麼會沒有呢你這個前面的會前會就是你的小組裡面我們就是家長一樣學校代表一樣專家是由校長聘請只是校長在我們的審議小組的時候不能發表回到的這個部分校士會議當中的話校長有投票權多增加一個行政人員哪一個不是跌床加烏你告訴我"},{"start":207.503,"end":224.088,"text":"我想我們相信老師教師代表教師的權益的維護跟家長代表這裡邊對學生小孩子的兒童我們都同意啊問題是你把這個學校有了一個校式會議後你讓整個學校變成好像一個私設刑場一樣你讓它變一個法院開在學校裡面啊跟委員報告這一個"},{"start":227.999,"end":251.571,"text":"階段我們不希望因為校長還是要護學校辦學的一個責任所以不希望他求員兼裁判我們希望這一個來自專業那我問你校士會議學校長有沒有表決權如果不要求員兼裁判校士會議裡面校長有沒有否決權校長還沒有投票權也可以那這叫什麼求員兼裁判他在校士會議裡面可以求員兼裁判我們就是希望分流因為"},{"start":252.671,"end":271.574,"text":"在当时所有的这一年来至少我接到的信息大小事本来校士会是用的所以你认为受了你觉得前面受一个会前会的受理选一小组就可以解决这个问题吗你觉得就可以解决这个问题吗至少他达到我们老师端的一个诉求希望他不要大小事"},{"start":272.074,"end":286.557,"text":"都進入到校事會議我們第一個先分流我想跟委員報告我們現在社會存在一個家長對老師老師對家長我們希望有更多的一些信任部長你當過老師我也當過老師我們都知道你剛講那個目標原則都沒有問題只是你制度的設計有沒有真正維護到讓老師的熱情不被剝奪我覺得是這樣子我想我們的想法跟委員"},{"start":300.979,"end":328.204,"text":"一樣 我想只是質疑你你設立的這個所謂邵里審議小組這是邵氏會的會前會有沒有真正讓我們成都的這個爛宿有沒有把制度的設計問題我們先來看嘛我想會比以前更好我不相信好 如果說是我相信的話就不會有馬上就有教師團體在1月25號要上街頭來如果你真的這個設計能夠符合他們的一個需求誠如你說的有跟這些教師團體好好的溝通不會造成這樣的一個狀況好"},{"start":329.844,"end":355.518,"text":"部长我们先来看看整个的部分里面嘛你的制度里面当然特别是在你们这个在这个校师会议里面真正进入里面有个调查小组我想很多的教师团体希望在这个校长小组当中除了三位外聘专家当中能够诚如你所说的更了解学校更了解学生的这个所谓的家长跟教师代表能够进入但是呢在调查小组里面被你们否决了没错吧"},{"start":356.098,"end":375.793,"text":"你們希望能夠只有法律的專家等等之類不必然是法律專家法律專家可以但是有很多的學校的老師跟家長更是了解學校的狀況可是就被你們用疑惑如果加入了學校的一些代表的話就會變成所謂的官官相護現在你們就是充斥著只要是學校老師出來發聲你們就認為他們在官官相護這是不早你所看到的嗎"},{"start":383.659,"end":403.385,"text":"調查小組裡面多增加的兩個難道不好嗎教師代表也可以是學校的一個老師的代表調查小組沒有教師代表 家長代表我們就希望因為他了解學校所以從學校裡面長出來的我說的是調查小組裡面只有三位法律專家代表就是分我之前這一個的一個小組"},{"start":404.245,"end":427.417,"text":"部長我也知道分流的狀況但是呢當你調查小組把調查的結果放到校務會議校事會的時候呢其實一切就已經決定了就已經決定了常常就已經決定了就好像是檢調已經起訴了好不好陳主委員所提的我對基層教育我是熟悉的我完全同意啊可是我就是質疑這次的制度設計是有問題的"},{"start":431.039,"end":443.23,"text":"學校的爭議教師代表不應該由其他學校來當代表家長代表不應該由其他學校來當代表我們兩個現在沒有對焦部長我們現在沒有對焦我現在跟你說這個你跟我說別的東西這不是我現在只能跟你提倡我們這個所謂的裡面的調查小組當中我們只希望能夠多有一個對於學校裡面完全理解的因為我們很清楚"},{"start":454.761,"end":464.488,"text":"在校士會議當中整個之前的調查報告就已經決定了80%這才是為什麼那麼多教師團體希望在你們所謂的專家學者之外能夠加入我只告訴你部長"},{"start":471.212,"end":496.059,"text":"你們當然可以去執行但是呢有高度的重疊這個制度設計為了要避免校試會議不要被你們說有爛數你們反而在校試會裡面又前面又多出了一個審查小組但是裡面的名單是高度重疊的就事情的判斷來做分流那平常你的教評會什麼平常的考核會議之前就可以來判斷了難道沒有嗎在你我的年代當中就教評會就來判斷了"},{"start":497.719,"end":523.32,"text":"理解也同意委員我們以前時代就有嗎有有你那時候的老師的尊嚴跟現在他在哪裡現在正解釋118年當時為什麼既然學校有校教評會為什麼還訂出了一個所謂的校士會議對這個解聘不棄聘當時的體系當然有一定的時空環境嘛可是當時因為這個校士會議裡邊希望有一個更專業更客觀來"},{"start":524.141,"end":544.012,"text":"我只告诉你部长你也很清楚的知道你现在讲了这么多的理由我们现在回归到最有温度的教学的现场你这套的设计有让我们现在的现职的老师因为你这个设计里面让他们觉得倍感尊严让他们觉得他们教育的热忱还是继续维持吗你就说着这个部分就可以了吗在我们的年代当中"},{"start":544.352,"end":558.584,"text":"我們當老師是什麼樣的一個尊榮我們現在的當老師是什麼樣的一個卑微你可以比較一下嘛我從頭到尾我沒有否定你的初心我只告訴你現在的制度完全沒有辦法讓我們這個第一線老師受到任何的一個尊重嘛"},{"start":560.325,"end":574.225,"text":"没有嘛补偿机制你们什么时候演绎出来你先让我先问到这个部分我可以让你回忆我们老师如果说到一个冤案的话你的补偿机制演绎到什么时候出来你可不可以告诉我们一个具体的时程"},{"start":575.066,"end":591.401,"text":"我們先把這個全部問題問完你同意回應這也要請委員多以支持確實我們現在的一個法令相關是有難度的但是我跟委員報告自始至終我同意如果一個老師受到冤屈"},{"start":592.722,"end":619.281,"text":"民意怎么回复包含他的许多的权益怎么样来回复我想这一直自始至终好嘛那你什么时候要把我们的补偿机制演绎出来什么时候具体实际部长我从头到后没有否定你的初心我只告诉你你所设定的制度当中让我们现在教育的老师第一线的老师越来越没有热情他们真的觉得回到学校去教书之后动不动就很害怕学校越来越没有热情不是我引起的"},{"start":619.961,"end":642.637,"text":"但是我願意來協助解決問題當然 那你 好了 沒有問題補償機制什麼時候出來什麼時候研議出來 告訴我們一個具體的時程這是我們不斷在追問的我的立場一直是主張應該給予回復的但是我們現在確實有許多的法令必須要克服所以這個部分我們會跨部會包括跨院上的人好 那什麼時候 到底什麼時候出來"},{"start":644.008,"end":664.192,"text":"你要跨到哪里去啊你这个老师的这个补偿好 没问题所以什么时候给我们一个明确的一个时程出来好 我们也跟人事总处好嘛 那什么时候嘛可能什么时候半年 三个月我们在努力如果可以那么快我不会再这一次我这一次就会以我的个性这一次就一次到位了"},{"start":664.312,"end":683.969,"text":"您以你的個性我相信你會為老師的權益能夠做我只告訴你從頭到尾這是我所聽到所有的這個部分校園裡面的對立沒有因為你這個制度的設計變得因此更加友善老師的熱忱沒有因為這個制度增加一個會前會的審議小組因為這樣就這樣我們的時間成本也沒有因為這樣子而受到這樣的影響老師他們對目前先把這個不具名這個避免濫訴"},{"start":691.896,"end":714.406,"text":"這個至少減了一半第一線的老師已經至少他們覺得這是一個好的開始匿名的部分裡面萬一真的是有一個真的是是匿名你們不予受理但是真的有一些的方式裡面他真的涉及到不當的體罰那你要怎麼處理只要是匿名你都不處理嗎那如果有這些事情發生你怎麼辦他回歸到什麼機制"},{"start":715.606,"end":744.501,"text":"如果真有這件事情的話我想有一些我們還是有一些流程這一個我們會所以你們回到考核機制嘛對不對如果說真的有的我們是有一個機制而且會給地方教育局處這個都跟地方教育局處討論過的所以我們在未來的這個沒有我只問說你如果說匿名審查裡面都把它刪除但是如果真的是匿名審查但是真的是有涉及到不當的一個管教這個部分怎麼處理我們還是有一個程序上什麼程序原來的原來體制上面的考核機制對不對"},{"start":745.541,"end":770.707,"text":"那是不是又回到原來的考核機制那是不一樣的什麼不一樣我們一定要看他在這個事實上那如果他有延期從主管單位裡邊我們透過那個檢核的幾個指標那就是原來的機制嘛對不對你最匿名的部分你就回到原來的機制嘛居民的話你就回到這個校式會議之前的會前會然後到校式會議然後再要檢查檔"},{"start":773.811,"end":778.118,"text":"你覺得真的會對我們的這個所謂的師生權益保障會更有效嗎你真的這麼覺得會比較好嗎"},{"start":781.45,"end":801.701,"text":"我相信他一定会更好你相信会更好好我告诉你我那时候就说1月12号你们这样子提出这个部分里面如果没有处理好一定会让所谓的教育现场老师更是觉得心寒果然这个部分里面来说的话教师团体基本上他的最希望是整个根本废掉"},{"start":802.951,"end":827.45,"text":"这是我们终极目标回到刚才委员讲的由校教评会来处理但是我们必须要讲台湾这些年来因为儿少权益包括少子化很多的不必然是少子化每一个家长你这样说起来好像教师的团体里面不顾及你的儿童不顾及儿少法不顾及家长群你这样对教师团体不公平校长我当然"},{"start":828.311,"end":857.365,"text":"不是委员不能用这样做结论但是彼此之间如何增加彼此的信任更多的一个信任因为我一直相信亲师合作才能够把下一代教得更好我当然相信部长这就是我们一贯身为教育工作者一贯的一个方向这个我们都不用再互相的质疑只是我们今天所讨论就整个制度的设计上面真的是让我们第一线的老师到目前为止对于这样一个设计他们真的觉得"},{"start":857.785,"end":876.876,"text":"已經有點心寒這也是一個你不能忽略到的一個事實沒有人因為說這樣的部分裡面就完全忽略了學生忽略了家長的感受沒有完全沒有這樣一個修正我沒有辦法滿足所有的老師也沒有辦法解決所有老師的一些問題但是他往好的方向在走"},{"start":877.096,"end":892.521,"text":"我们就来看看有没有办法好一下所以说部长万一这个过程当中没有因此让整个老师的这个热情回复没有办法让校园的堆砌继续的这样子的有所减少你是不是可以承诺可以做另外一番的一个修正万一你执行起来"},{"start":892.841,"end":919.807,"text":"这个是我们大概半年后我们会滚动半年后好半年后我们都还在对不对我们就来看现在是一月对不对七八月我们下个会期的时候我们就来看看到底还在不在好不好这才是一个很具体还有包括老师我刚刚所提到的他的补偿的部分我希望在半年后当中我们也可以看到我们今天站在这个地方都要讲出明确的时程跟明确的一个目标这才是我们身为教育者里面应该对这些老师对这些学生应该有的责任跟角色"},{"start":920.387,"end":929.406,"text":"也是我努力的目标我们半年后再来看看检视这样的一个成果好 谢谢谢谢委员 谢谢谢谢柯知恩委员那郑部长请回座"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}