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謝謝現在請萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":30.325,"end":33.448,"text":"謝謝召委 我們有請鄭部長有請鄭部長委員長"},{"start":39.997,"end":68.264,"text":"部長早千呼萬喚1月12號我們修正教師解聘辦法跟教師成績考核辦法終於出來了但是呢本來以為1月12之後可以解決掉大家心中的很多疑慮很多的問題但沒有想到看到教師團體依然有這麼多的一個意見跟想法那1月25號要到教育部來陳情那部長知道他們為什麼要陳情嗎"},{"start":70.124,"end":98.089,"text":"我知道你知道那所以1月25號那一天你會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我只期待這個教師團體能夠看到我們的努力很多的法令不可能一次到位兼顧台灣所有從兒少全域各個團體上這個我們都了解所以部長那一天會出來接受他們的陳情嗎我覺得他們應該要回到這個學校裡邊把小孩子教得更好"},{"start":98.769,"end":100.813,"text":"所以不會不要傷了我們對他們支持的心我們的努力"},{"start":106.514,"end":134.621,"text":"我想其实这个是应该要一个彼此尊重就像您刚才在讲的是希望回到以前亲师很和谐我们对老师有相当的尊重这个才能变成一个良性的循环现在看起来一直在恶性循环当中但是这个不是靠呼吁就可以改变现在的一个状态的那有没有打算在1月25号那他们准备要到教育部成行之前能够跟这些教师团体来进行沟通不管是部长次长或是署长有没有这样的一个想法或计划"},{"start":134.841,"end":153.358,"text":"谢谢委员的关心但是我想教育部一直在跟教师团体有许多的一些沟通的管道但是我也只能讲教师团体希望把校事会议毁掉所以1月25号之前我们没有打算再进行沟通了是吗"},{"start":155.839,"end":175.384,"text":"應該這麼講的我們國教署或者教育部的同仁事實上包括張料萬堅次長也常常跟他們那個部長我想不要浪費時間講這些啦那過去的努力我也看在眼裡但是現在顯然就是還沒有辦法很完全的打消我們這些教師對於校師會議的一種恐懼恐慌跟不滿嘛"},{"start":176.624,"end":196.221,"text":"所以我希望在1月25号之前部里面能够去考虑是不是能够再跟他们继续沟通了解一下过去是在1月12之前那有很多他们的想法我们在沟通但1月12我们办法新修出来之后他们还有一些想法我觉得应该要再进行一次沟通部长可不可以再给彼此一个机会"},{"start":197.63,"end":209.538,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心因為委員也特別為了這一個召開的公聽會我想大家的想法都是一致的我還是那一句話保持溝通這沒有問題的我們來這邊討論一下這一次教育部你修的法當中最主要幾個點第一個我們刪除掉了匿名檢舉"},{"start":219.645,"end":244.094,"text":"第二個我們進行案件分流再來我們希望制度能夠精緻化但是我們看到教師團體這一次最主要他們的想法是說看到這一切修改但是沒有辦法去對於爛數去解決這種所謂零成本的爛數的問題仔細去看了一下我覺得這問題當中的確還有沒有辦法解決的地方在你看"},{"start":244.814,"end":259.875,"text":"你希望说在校事会议之前能够再来一个所谓的私人小组的会议可是呢我们这个私人小组的会议当中那你为了这个我不知道为什么你要把这个校长能够有意见但是没有表决权这是为什么"},{"start":260.556,"end":275.607,"text":"這我想我們希望學校終究的一個這個辦學的一個責任還是要校長負責但是學校裡邊怎麼樣能夠校長怎麼樣不要工資變成市主我想這一個我們第一個就是希望把這一個"},{"start":276.167,"end":300.596,"text":"因為我們要解決過去動不動部長啦 我跟你說啦這都是你的想法但是你知道嗎光是你這個私人小組會議啊大家都覺得跌床架屋不管是教師團體不管是校長甚至於校長更覺得說哇 短期內他其實要召開兩個會議而教師團體也覺得這裡面還是問題很多包括你現在讓校長沒有表決權教師團體覺得校長變成有權無責怎麼說"},{"start":304.437,"end":321.682,"text":"因為他還是召開會議還是可以表達意見他是有權的但他不用投票變成他是無責的可是校長認為呢所謂的一切責任還是在我是一校之長但是我變成有責無權啊所以你這樣的一個修法搞了一個四人小組的一個會議啊其實是不順故意又逆了掃疫啊"},{"start":322.222,"end":329.407,"text":"所以没有得到大家有一个共识所以人家也说这个叫做新瓶装旧酒但我倒不这么认为"},{"start":352.262,"end":378.419,"text":"就是說你今天讓校長沒有表達意見這件事情看起來沒有任何一個方向的團體是買單的所以我不理解為什麼要做這樣跌床駕霧的事情跟委員我想我們的想法是跟委員一致的我們希望學校發生老師的一些可能管教上的一些這個可能有一些人質疑我們怎麼樣讓最熟悉這個學校的教師"},{"start":379.591,"end":398.684,"text":"代表還有這個學校的家長代表不是啦部長你應該要把今天大家的質詢聽進去喔因為1月12你可能好不容易集思廣益修了吧但是其實有很多的問題還是在裡面嘛你應該要把它帶回去也許你試行一段時間之後還要再調整不一定喔你去想想看今天我想我們幾個委員會有在講"},{"start":399.304,"end":408.549,"text":"你私人小組會議其實做了決議之後你回到校室會議校長還是要表決嘛所以這個權責你怎麼分你剛剛所講的其實你剛剛所講的問題還是會產生嘛然後要在這麼密集之內其實要兩次的會議我真的覺得啦"},{"start":414.552,"end":431.582,"text":"這次再多修了這一個利益良善但是效果沒有達到好那我們再來看喔你這邊有提到說如果私人小組決定要進到校事會的案件我們會再討論一次這個案件是屬於不適任案或者一般懲處案還是說我們就會直接進入調查階段是怎麼樣如果分流基本上就是他可能已經涉及到那個不適任等於說要解聘"},{"start":444.113,"end":461.462,"text":"就是我們習慣過去談的校事會議前面是在做分流因為我們要解決過去大小大小案去以去年為例1300我知道嘛所以我在請教您說到了校事會議之後還需要再討論一次他是屬於哪一類的案子還是直接進入調查"},{"start":462.222,"end":490.973,"text":"直接就進入調查嗎 我想喔這一次這個整個修法完以後啊你還提到了一個我們需要進入到校師會議的就是所謂的教師不適任案嘛那本席也列了一下喔所謂的涉及教師法的不適任案裡面有幾項其中一個在第16條第一項教學不力教學不力也是在當中但是這四個字很抽象可不可以請部長明確告訴我教學不力是指什麼"},{"start":492.796,"end":512.801,"text":"教學不利我想有一些老師就是他連上課都不來上課嘛這是在這個不用講這個就很明確啦那還有什麼叫教學不利譬如說遲到早對礦課礦紙對學生所有的教學裡面完全不用心什麼叫做不用心當然"},{"start":514.381,"end":541.219,"text":"所以部長本席在這裡要提醒你你的教學不利這個部分呢其實就是要進到教師不是人案進到校師會議我覺得還有很多模糊的空間那當然你沒有辦法規範到百分之一百但是也不能夠啊我們再重新修正以後就還是問題百出嘛那所以這個部分我希望能不能在會後啊你也想一想然後也給教文委員會的委員一個報告到底啊你所謂進入到教師不是人案裡面哪幾項是應該在這當中的"},{"start":543.18,"end":562.706,"text":"也讓未來你的調查小組或者是你所謂的這些校士會議也好私人小組也好有一個比較明確的依循好不好所以這個會會要再給我們一下謝謝委員提醒因為確實我們在根據過去的歷史我們現在是在整理一些比較普遍的一些涉及到這個我又必須要有"},{"start":563.246,"end":581.604,"text":"不续聘这一个停聘等等这会后再给我对于案例也希望能够给各地方县市谢谢这会后再给我那另外我想我也是强烈的要求因为我们知道在就是之前12月31号的时候张亮万街次长其实有讲"},{"start":582.205,"end":601.034,"text":"他說1月12的校士會議的這個修法他一定會考入納入冤獄補償但是看起來沒有啊看起來沒有那時候說好的結果出來的時候是沒有我想我們校士團體當然都非常的失望那你剛剛有提到說想這麼做那如果能這麼做早就這麼做了"},{"start":601.314,"end":623.669,"text":"但問題是既然知道這是應該做的我希望部長能不能加快腳步如果你夠積極 如果你夠想要我相信你所謂的跨部會其實是會尊重教育部的所以部長這個部分不管是我們的名譽的回覆實質的加急也好的這些補償我希望能夠更盡速一點能不能歇一個時間告訴我們大概什麼時候我跟委員報告我一直在努力 我氣有不守"},{"start":631.24,"end":650.462,"text":"我希望當然是越快越好好既然沒有辦法借出時間來我們就希望你加緊腳步那最後我想針對這一次教師團體所提到的關於尋堂 觀客等等其實讓他們感受上非常的不舒服就像您說的這平常其實有在做"},{"start":651.563,"end":668.609,"text":"但是你要把它修在文字當中其實未來是不是只要有一個人經過了這個走廊經過了教室外大家都覺得有人要來監督有人要來蒐證我覺得這沒有辦法達到一個尊重我認為這個部分如果原本有在做的話我也希望部長能夠再思考一下怎麼樣做會比較細緻"},{"start":670.53,"end":683.384,"text":"那接下來我們進入到今天的這個營養午餐的部分距離上一次也就是在12月24號討論午餐的專訪其實又快要過了一個月所以部長你有沒有在跟行政院在溝通我們有沒有願板要出來"},{"start":685.666,"end":707.467,"text":"跟委員報告我們的營養午餐一直彭署長這個跟地方在溝通那陳儒剛才我跟這個劉委員報告在營養午餐法大家在希望他有一個專法的時候已經有十個縣市地方本於地方自治他已經在做免費我知道所以現在簡單來講目前還沒有願版對嗎我們寫"},{"start":712.881,"end":719.557,"text":"我們教育部有一個版本教育部有版本所以有布版出來了上次你是建議文字所以現在是有布版了嗎"},{"start":721.581,"end":749.419,"text":"也跟委員報告到底是建議文字還是不版這兩個還是不太一樣我們有建議文字所以不是不版部長修正一下所以還是維持在上次的進度上次其實在審查的時候署長有說專法通過的話地方大概要承擔118億74億相關的補助在44億可能有一些營養師相關的人事上所以我們有在跟地方溝通部長能不能簡單講一下現在署長跟地方溝通的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":752.196,"end":779.53,"text":"就是因为在这一个许多的营养午餐因为各地方因地制宜我刚才跟委员报告过的就是它可能有物价指数等等还有学校规模大小所以它有公办公营有公办私营也有用这个便当的委外的这个便当的一个送整整的机制它事实上在整个单价的成本那谁要来比如说在我们过去的这许多的偏乡"},{"start":780.69,"end":801.975,"text":"好了 部長我不是在講這個東西啦我今天要講的是說這個第一個專法你們有要出來那按照現行來說看一下你說你要這個研擬還有公告相關營養午餐的人力配置的原則嘛看一下是要用原則去取代專法這個部分目前暫時我也沒有意見但是我們就是要把營養午餐辦好嘛"},{"start":803.015,"end":829.176,"text":"那现在呢我们看到各县市已经有很多县市了有的是很积极就把营养午餐免费让所有的孩子都有营养午餐可以吃那有的县市当然不情不愿也是做了这样可见大家都往这个方向去走了那当然也有人提出来说是不是其实布林面应该要让我们全国的这个政策是统一的既然开始有营养午餐免费是不是全国都可以这个营养午餐免费由中央来做这样的一个政策"},{"start":830.177,"end":849.695,"text":"根文報告它確實這個就是屬於我們現在看到全國22個地方縣市已經有20個縣市這一個免費所以它充分說明了它就是屬於地方自治的一個前線但是教育部未來一定會確實把關不打 我提幾個例子給你聽"},{"start":851.457,"end":867.23,"text":"我們以前有那個子宮頸癌疫苗其實這樣講法不太正確就HPV 對不對那在各縣市開始慢慢慢慢就是有的縣市有做那有的縣市可能打國中一年級的女生有的二年級有的縣市可能慢慢打到高中當時是這樣"},{"start":869.011,"end":893.881,"text":"于是后来中央发现说子宫颈癌疫苗HPV这个很重要那后来现在中央甚至于连本席提案的我们连男生现在也可以施打全国一致这是第一个第二个就你了解的我们代理代课教室的聘期以前是从县市开始做嘛对不对有些县市开始觉得说代理代课教室很重要我们就全聘期然后呢中央接手做那中央接手做都做得很好啊"},{"start":894.281,"end":913.874,"text":"那營養午餐為什麼不能這樣做呢所以本席認為啦我們應該全國的這個孩子吃營養午餐要在營養的立足點當然我們可能因為這個食材的成本這物流各方面可能不一致但是我認為喔部裡面是不是應該要下去了解喔那在各縣市的營養午餐的餐費設一個定額那開始要"},{"start":915.955,"end":942.895,"text":"就是一律有中央来做然后全部买单或者是做一个定额以上的来怎么样这个补贴但是我觉得这样的政策真的是应该中央做而不是地方按照各县市的财政的状况不同有的可能吃的好一点有的可能吃的差一点有的这个经费高有的经费低那有的甚至有做有的没有做有的现在做有的可能到财政不好他不做我觉得这样是不对的前面两个例子HPV还有这个带个教师为什么中央在营养午餐这个部分不能做"},{"start":943.675,"end":957.524,"text":"我想教育部確實因為它就是地方知識的地方前線那特別我們看財化法地方事實上在整個經費上它更豐富了所以在這個經費就教育部的一個立場我們未來一定會"},{"start":973.935,"end":1000.842,"text":"那你不能说才化法之后就什么全部通通都给地方做了嘛是不是这样子所以本席给你建议我觉得你应该要去思考一下当然我相信你心里有一个定见那这当然还有这个你还有这个上级给你一些指导可是我觉得其实是不是应该让全国的孩子吃在这件事情上统一这件事非常重要如果我们现在有的现实这样有的现实那样酸法又没有出来我觉得营养物质这件事情未来还是会产生一些问题啦我们一定会定定一个"},{"start":1001.982,"end":1028.228,"text":"包含未來各地方縣市政府在推動營養午餐的許多的那個檢核指標我想這個我們一定會把他這一個跟地方來共同建立這樣一個機制我們確保學童吃的健康吃的安全有助於他未來的這個發展口號要呼籲但是我們動作也要落實來做好嗎請委員相信我我一定會這樣做我一直很相信你所以你一定要好好表現謝謝委員支持謝謝好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}