{"error":false,"id":["167154"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167154,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167154","日期":"2026-01-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-15-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-19T09:42:06+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-19T09:49:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4ba512932926f8518bd4402936dfdb1e75d69df13e4e8eda247638a9beb78aab82244cc87e3a1d295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"09:42:06 - 09:49:57","會議時間":"2026-01-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長就「賴清德總統興建13萬戶社會住宅政策無法落實之檢討」進行專題報告並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.99284375,"end":5.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.80221875,"end":6.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.202843750000001,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.906593750000003,"end":13.429718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.429718750000003,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.78721875,"end":30.372218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.03034375,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.33346875,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.48534375,"end":35.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":45.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.95346875,"end":38.354093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.674093750000004,"end":48.765968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.85909375,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.93471875,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.562843750000006,"end":53.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.71034375,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.97534375,"end":65.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.953468750000006,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.76284375,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.12096875,"end":73.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.40346875,"end":78.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.53346875000001,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.55034375000001,"end":78.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.34346875,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.53721875000001,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.35534375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.34659375000001,"end":90.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.37971875000001,"end":92.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.86034375000001,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.25221875000001,"end":97.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.51346875,"end":104.03159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.93034375,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.03159375000001,"end":104.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.13284375,"end":109.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.95909375000001,"end":114.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.68409375,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.57846875000001,"end":118.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.10096875,"end":127.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":129.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.40721875,"end":131.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.21284375000002,"end":134.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.86221875,"end":150.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.58534375000002,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.80034375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.59721875,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.74034375000002,"end":159.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.13659375,"end":171.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.59909375,"end":172.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.29096875000002,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.24721875,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.19221875000002,"end":190.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.40721875,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.03159375,"end":185.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.13284375,"end":185.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.32596875000002,"end":200.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.70409375000003,"end":219.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.36471875,"end":214.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.76034375,"end":220.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.73909375000002,"end":222.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.98346875000001,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.34096875,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.02409375000002,"end":235.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.58909375000002,"end":246.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.92471875,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.63721875000002,"end":251.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.29096875000002,"end":253.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.30784375000002,"end":253.96596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.96596875000003,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.40034375000002,"end":258.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.18034375,"end":266.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.02721875000003,"end":267.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.03534375000004,"end":288.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.59346875,"end":289.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.80846875000003,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":298.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.54971875,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.98409375,"end":311.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.77159375,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.34096875,"end":312.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.02846875,"end":314.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.20971875000004,"end":315.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.57659375000003,"end":318.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.45784375,"end":331.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.54034375000003,"end":337.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.60784375000003,"end":331.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.88534375,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.16346875000005,"end":341.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.04096875000005,"end":348.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.15471875000003,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.72846875000005,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.23409375,"end":358.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.14909375,"end":353.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.08534375000005,"end":354.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.87846875,"end":354.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.67971875,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.73346875000004,"end":364.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.75034375,"end":367.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.65284375000005,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.29221875,"end":392.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.03284375000004,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.59096875,"end":425.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.42909375000005,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.34784375000004,"end":431.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.06909375000004,"end":438.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.64596875,"end":439.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.04659375000006,"end":442.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.35846875000004,"end":445.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.92346875000004,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.17221875,"end":454.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.18784375,"end":459.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.48659375000005,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.13034375,"end":472.26096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.198,"end":30.233,"text":"今天這個花敬群董事長有來 請花董事長我們請花董事長那部長先稍後謝謝委員長董事長早 滿一九十期的社宅1.4萬戶從蔡英文政府上來以後到賴清德總統我想花敬群董事長是社宅最重要的推手請問一下目前社宅的部分一共舉載了多少"},{"start":31.292,"end":47.651,"text":"跟委員報告 因為是要依照興建的速度動波嘛那到 目前興建完成的部分還有興建中的一共舉債的多少這個基金啦 我們這個基金一共借了多少錢我們中央蓋的 住戶中心蓋的"},{"start":49.033,"end":76.274,"text":"我們蓋大概將近7萬戶 6萬9千戶那轉個連帶案當時興建的費用是4,005億那我們現在估下來最後應該是3,890億左右目前這3,890億加上這些租金的收入可以付得到利息嗎利息可以抵得過嗎我們整個自償率算下來大概是64%左右"},{"start":79.439,"end":97.598,"text":"就是我們的租金收入那我們扣掉必要的管理費用那目標是不是要百分之百當然缺口就是住宅基金補助 租入中心嘛所以說大概有百分之三十幾的部分目標會不會到百分之百 希望什麼意思 租金 租金"},{"start":99.027,"end":127.562,"text":"我們租金收入的估計是用九成的出租率去估的啦九成出租率不是滿租是九成的出租率當然這都是要後續的維護因為這三千多億裡面還包含現在新建中還沒有開始收租金的部分那所以在這個動態式的調整裡面同步的把這個包租代管拉高是一個方式讓整個社宅的這個基金"},{"start":128.942,"end":150.47,"text":"被內政部補貼的經費可以降低是不是這個意思其實這個部分是針對過往我們蓋的6萬9千戶那未來如果還要再增加興建當然還要有另外的資金的籌措和資金的補助那都要在另外再來算那當然它就是 它不是 其實"},{"start":151.75,"end":170.415,"text":"這都是選擇啦因為包租貸款或租金補貼他可以即刻快速滿足民眾的需求嘛不用等我蓋房子需要時間大概我以我高雄我的選區左營男子為例高雄目前總社宅規劃是接近兩萬三千戶"},{"start":172.396,"end":200.741,"text":"我們是因為台積電進駐的關係那大量的社宅也規劃在左營跟南子一共9000多戶目前有一個地方就是崇石安居都已經很多人住進去了那我也在這邊讓大家知道一下崇石他一共859戶裡面當初有2186戶來申請但是通過審核的1085戶可能他的工作地點可能他的戶籍地點等等的這些我們所限制的因素"},{"start":203.87,"end":219.156,"text":"1085個合格的抽籤 中籤率是接近80%這個是歷年來社宅可能算中籤率很高很高的一個當然也有可能是因為我在自己接觸的很多從"},{"start":221.037,"end":245.447,"text":"領租金補貼到要搬進社宅第一個地點的關係第二個他比較新第三個可能他這樣搬過去他的租金不會造成他更大的負擔所以因為這三個因素他會搬但是這個只有80%接下來還有8000戶左營男子接下來還有8000戶那董事長也都有去看所以我想這個接下來我要請劉部長 謝謝請劉部長"},{"start":254.49,"end":265.139,"text":"所以現在內政部調整的方向應該是說要大量的希望大量的這個包租代管可以出現所以包含我們也把這個"},{"start":269.816,"end":291.163,"text":"這個包租貸款裡面很多公益出租那還有對於出租人的這個終所稅的優惠付稅的減免等等希望有更多釋出更多的空屋來讓包租貸款的量可以增加到讓整個租屋市場可以平衡那這個部長請問一下"},{"start":292.973,"end":317.392,"text":"從去年度我們開始推包租貸款到今年度整個包租貸款的量的變化是怎樣是 謝謝委員的垂詢我想包租貸款不是去年度就是已經推了大概10年左右但是從前年去年到今年對我們有增加了幾個負稅優惠 速度非常的快對 非常的快你可以說明一下數字嗎幾乎現在是10萬4千多戶"},{"start":319.714,"end":342.204,"text":"現在是10萬4千多戶在113年的時候是8萬多戶然後112年是6萬多戶所以幾乎是每年用2萬戶的這個趨勢在往上成長當中這2萬戶的成長其實包含我們在住宅法裡面可以很多的包含這個付稅的優惠那包含對於修繕的補助還有修繕的補助等等"},{"start":343.264,"end":363.993,"text":"這會比蓋房子快啦會比這個住住中心蓋房子快啦所以現在目前調節的方向而且這是民間蓋的房子不是公屋就是一般的租屋嘛對空屋或漁屋或者是有這個租屋需求的市場的需要的部分那部長我再問你一個問題齁那如果這個包租代管的速度可以這麼快的話"},{"start":364.773,"end":379.731,"text":"那如果這個住宿中心這邊跟地方政府可以配合好那還有比如說像南梓的這個中油宿舍區還有機會蓋的話請問花董事長跟部長你們認為這個方向上你們還會不會評估下去蓋"},{"start":380.336,"end":406.087,"text":"第一個我們是會做彈性的調整像委員所在的左營跟楠梓他未來的人口可能也會繼續的增加因為台積電的二耐米廠已經開設然後還有橋頭科學園區如果有需求的話我們一定會在包租代管跟直接興辦當中做一個最好的彈性調整但是請委員能夠了解第一個它的務實跟可及性也就是說會不會來不及"},{"start":406.747,"end":428.725,"text":"如果現在大家有需求的話如果現在有空屋可以拿出來出租那必須最務實現在馬上要去上班的台積電的青年或是其他的弱勢族群的話如果他要等到五年十年以後才看到房子蓋成那他大概已經轉到別的就業市場所以事實上他是非常務實跟可及性的趕快把大量的包租代管的空屋催出來嘛"},{"start":429.426,"end":450.983,"text":"我們很希望走這個方向好 謝謝 那華董事長我請問你我剛剛講的那個問題齁如果中流宿舍那一區有機會協調好的話住住中心能不能評估來蓋各位報告 那個宿舍未必是一定要蓋社宅啦因為它本來是中流的資產不一定是這個名字啦對對對對那又是可能是更新或怎麼樣子依據高雄在地的需求"},{"start":451.516,"end":467.669,"text":"其實都可以再跟市府這邊再來做溝通好 謝謝我想內政部跟住戶中心用這個比較活化比較滾動式的來趕快快速的來調整這些可以出租的這些房子我想我們這裡表達支持 謝謝謝謝李博議員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}