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會造成還是會有一些不同的色心地位裡邊家庭的一個問題因為未來地方政府如果它基於預算它一直沒有所謂的一個動態調價機制"},{"start":229.906,"end":248.8,"text":"那這個也是很多地方擔心的所以也很希望能夠在辦法或者是未來的專法有沒有可能由中央來訂定納入評鑑之類的機制我們當然希望所有的政策的宣示是永續的而不要說因為今年大家很高興明年因為物價上漲"},{"start":250.181,"end":276.02,"text":"這樣一個價格就這就是很多家長擔心的然後或者就可能品質降低我想這不是我們一個地方政策地方自治裡面在宣布政策裡面所考量的我們當然會希望這個品質是能夠被確保的這也是教育部在未來裡面我們會透過就是配套措施好不好我們未來跟地方來合作而且會提醒也會透過一定的監督來把關好 謝謝部長"},{"start":279.022,"end":306.788,"text":"那另外就是1月12號已經有預告一個解聘辦法的一個新的預告公告內容那關於這個部分部長您也很清楚這兩年其實各地的教師會也好很多的教師團體他們其實也不斷的訴求不斷的開記者會那我們在立法院也做過很多次的質詢甚至是也參與很多場次的記者會"},{"start":307.848,"end":326.682,"text":"那現在其實教育部草案的修正內容我先這樣子說其實是採納了很多地方的聲音跟意見那即便是後來還有不同的聲音出來但是我覺得其實在這之前大家反映出來的聲音"},{"start":327.623,"end":342.549,"text":"其實教育部也都有接納聽進去了可是我在這裡要提到的就是關於教師權益跟兒少權的衝突他其實是在冰山的底下還是在那個地方較勁較力包括校內調查結構的衝突等等"},{"start":346.471,"end":369.108,"text":"那也就是說在這個地方如果我們沒有去注意的話未來依舊還是會有很多很多的聲音出來舉個例子來講像現在我們公告出來我們並沒有看到還是依照現行辦法的規定關於這些什麼解聘終局停聘不續聘的時候被害人才有權取得調查報告"},{"start":370.008,"end":390.642,"text":"並且提出救濟陳情所以在這個地方就形成了一個程序的黑洞為什麼因為他在第48條的地方他的原因就在於我們可以看到他在第一項他說本法第16條第一項第一款的事件僅需對行為人提供調查報告"},{"start":391.883,"end":407.035,"text":"但是我們應該是要針對行為人與被害人或檢舉人這個地方就是不夠橫貧那麼我們再去看同樣的立法格式喔我們卻看到在第48條的第3項"},{"start":409.597,"end":433.607,"text":"有去做修法了可是在第43條的地方我們可以看到在第48條被害人提出陳情前得向學校申請提供調查報告然後以主張或維護其法律上利益有必要違憲可是第43條他們原本是一樣的喔修法之後卻只修了行為人"},{"start":434.387,"end":460.764,"text":"卻沒有被害人所以這個部分反而是讓學校主動提供行為人的調查報告卻不用提供給被害人所以這個是不利於兒少犬的部分又或者是說我們看到像是輕微的處分像是依照考核辦法申戒之類的他卻沒有一個申請的一個救濟管道那麼跟他原來的需求是相違背的"},{"start":461.224,"end":489.643,"text":"所以在這個地方就是凸顯了說我們的行為人跟被害人或檢舉人之間的一個權利不對等所以在這個地方就是一 他沒有辦法取得調查報告二 沒有辦法讓他有法定的一個救濟途徑所以這個部分站在橫平的立場就是想要請教部長是不是學校應該要主動提供調查報告無論是懲處結果如何給當事人 行為人 檢舉人"},{"start":491.324,"end":515.233,"text":"部長這個部分您的看法如何謝謝委員這個提醒確實這一個法的修訂本來就是因為行為人是可能他變成除非他被冤枉不然他可能是一個加害人那我們要處理的是行為人他後來可能涉及到他的一個解聘等等的這些的嫌疑所以我們才在他"},{"start":516.948,"end":538.742,"text":"這個進入校教評會之前讓他看到能夠對他的行為有所能夠有一些說明那這裡邊所有的處理的過程一定會到地方政府教育局被查所以也就是說對這個指控的人我們事實上他還是可以有一定的程序透過地方政府裡面去這個"},{"start":540.923,"end":547.55,"text":"這一個監督整個學校的處理的一個運作那當然如果我們也希望說這樣的一個調整"},{"start":549.741,"end":570.69,"text":"我们怎么样在儿少权益的保护也不阴枉老师的一些专业的一个教学的一个权利那我们希望也许这滚动式的到今年的六月我们会收集更多的资料来做一个滚动式的修正所以这个意见儿少权益的部分会纳进去考量对不对我讲我们为整体的一个考量"},{"start":571.01,"end":596.003,"text":"但我還是要回歸到我們還是很關心教師的權益所以就計後他的案件如果不成立部長我也聽過您很支持很認同還給他全心跟他的家籍這個部分要修教師法第25條以及教師待遇條例的第19條我都有提出修法版本了不曉得部裡面如何"},{"start":598.711,"end":618.36,"text":"跟委員報告確實委員也非常關心我也曾經跟委員這個表達自始至終我的立場就是將心比心所以今天我們不是受害人所以我們沒有辦法感同身受也正因為這樣所以他一定要朝那一個方向來修改所以教育部會主動積極來處理這個部分好 謝謝部長"},{"start":621.121,"end":643.841,"text":"好 謝謝部長但是呢 在調查階段還是有一個停聘 靜候調查的一個比例原則啦我們看到解聘辦法第11條第一項這個是很多老師痛苦的地方就是將行為人暫時予以停聘並靜候調查然後要等行政調查完畢後 認定情節重大才有懲戒法庭或主管機關來裁定"},{"start":645.802,"end":671.594,"text":"您看一下我的PPD這是我接到的陳情他說他接到公文他們要讓我復職然後馬上停聘三個月要繼續調查我學校說要搞死我這個都不是重點他說他想死啦他跟我想死我花了好長的一段時間一直鼓勵他當然這樣的例子很多"},{"start":672.794,"end":695.392,"text":"我們經常接到這方面的陳情但是我從不介入因為我們沒有辦法判斷到底誰為真誰為假這個要交給專業的這一些調查的委員會甚至是法官來處理我們也知道我們從不介入但是我們確實看到很多人很痛苦"},{"start":696.314,"end":715.756,"text":"在這個當中他可能沒有辦法去取得很清楚的一個調查委員會的一個認可但是他又覺得他是被冤枉的那個是無中生有的所以我要講的是說我們在教育界都很多年確實很多的老師他是性格的問題他是連續性的"},{"start":718.078,"end":744.165,"text":"可是也有一些人我們很清楚知道他可能是初次或者是只有這個單一事件但是他就要面臨這種解聘 停聘 靜候調查甚至最後沒有犯完所以這個是在我們當中的一個比例的原則我不曉得說有沒有可能增列一個初次單一情節輕微的為師行為的處理機制部長您怎麼看"},{"start":745.783,"end":771.764,"text":"謝謝委員的指導其實我們大概學校的現場裡邊我們其實信憑法委婉信憑法是當然要停止但是如果在校事這個部分我們本來就是希望不要用小案大辦所以我們有一個分流的機制那以現在的一個法條法令的規範就是說校教評會通過了它要停止要"},{"start":773.678,"end":800.652,"text":"這個停止的這個他才會有進入到這個所謂的權益等於說這個等於說他校教評會一定要通過部長我這樣說好了我舉例舉清楚一點假設有一位老師有一個主任他好心去幫體育老師帶課在這一節課當中突然就被告說學生去舉發說老師拿東西威脅我要刺我"},{"start":802.984,"end":823.327,"text":"那這個老師他過去沒有這樣的一個案例但是呢有理也說不清因為這個就是我們講的就是希望國教署要全面整理建立一個教師專業的倫理指引讓不當管教行為有更明確的界限而不要讓定義散落在各個含釋讓老師無所適從"},{"start":824.528,"end":840.93,"text":"那當老師面對這樣子他過去沒有可是他面臨的是什麼呢就是我們很害怕的修法之後的第九條依然是由校長邀集雖然校長沒有表決前但是我們常常講的就是問題的根源為何校內的調查"},{"start":842.432,"end":865.512,"text":"他本來就是我們再怎麼改他只是換零件他可能還是一部爛車但是我們很多的調查權如果還留在學校制度就永遠沒有辦法擺脫所謂的人情權利的一個死結然後行政的崩潰專業的不足求援兼裁判這樣的一個迷思黑箱當中"},{"start":866.192,"end":887.943,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分也是我們必須要在這次預告當中還是要去回歸到像我其實從以前就一直喊第三方機制我其實是希望說有所謂的第三方調查但是我們現在的幼教模式已經是這樣幼教模式是交由縣市主管機關來建立一個審查小組"},{"start":889.383,"end":906.648,"text":"所以我只是要表達的是說其實很多的根源還是會落入在我們的整個結構性當中沒有辦法掉脫人情啊 權利啊 派系啊 地方啊這種調查權是不是有辦法把它移出去部長您的看法"},{"start":907.736,"end":921.983,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我想土法不足以自行是很多的時候我們在把授權法令的專業的角色在教師法已經非常明文的規範老師"},{"start":924.324,"end":953.358,"text":"的所有的潛力義務在校教評會裡面相關的環境都明定的很清楚但是為什麼108年會訂出一個校事會議的一些處理當然它有它的時空背景我也非常不捨我們看到非常多老師他非常認真的堅守他的崗位但是因為班級經營我們只是希望在這一個兒少潛力跟老師的潛力怎麼樣慢慢的大家彼此能夠建立一個互信"},{"start":954.258,"end":974.435,"text":"能夠讓學校有一個更友善更溫馨的一個支持老師的教科學生的學家長也放心那這個東西以現階段來講我們必須要再有一點時間來逐步的改善建立這個重新這個信任的這個校園文化跟氛圍那我想這一個"},{"start":976.197,"end":993.999,"text":"在這個時刻我們在校事會議就可以退場了好就是謝謝部長因為您從教育界出身我相信這一些您都很有感那我們是希望說這一次的預告期雖然我們已經去處理了這種匿名檢舉不受理然後呢"},{"start":994.58,"end":1021.073,"text":"第一阶段回到考核办法然后再进入到我们所谓的一个校师会议又或者是说我们再去考虑对于这种初次的单一的轻微的是不是回归校内程序处理我想这很多我们其实儿少权的保障跟教师权益的保障都是为了我们国家教育的一个健全因为大家都需要快乐"},{"start":1022.053,"end":1050.302,"text":"所以這個部分就是希望部長你能夠針對檢舉人的權益讓他們也能取得調查報告也有一個申訴的救濟管道那教師的權益包括名譽的回覆最基本的就是回覆全新然後對於這些輕微出赤的還有他停聘的一個工作權那甚至有可能未來我們就是把調查權移出學校交給第三方比照幼教的一個模式"},{"start":1050.802,"end":1076.551,"text":"然後建立一個好的教師專業的倫理指引讓老師不要無所適從我想每一個作為其實都是代表我們對這件事情的用心我相信所有的家長也好老師也好也都會看重我們這份重視的態度好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝武力華委員那官員請回座了現在"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}