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謝主席有請優雅的台灣人 鄭英耀部長有請鄭部長委員好部長好"},{"start":19.634,"end":37.642,"text":"首先本席還是要抗議喔這個會期是預算會期那在野黨不審預算卻在委員會要求大家繼續原地繞圈圈假裝自己很關心學校營養午餐事實上才化法被修得亂七八糟然後行政院版又遭到拒絕審查"},{"start":38.863,"end":62.118,"text":"那為什麼營養午餐法會打劫財源不明 事權不清就是一個明擺著一隻在房間裡的大象我們已經講過很多次了這個劫沒想到 後續怎麼講都是假說的啦教育部做過初步的盤整營養午餐專法如果一旦訂定了每年需要花國家差不多44億的預算"},{"start":64.119,"end":78.431,"text":"換句話說在財化法沒有被惡修的狀況之下營養午餐法涉及那麼龐大的這個經費本來就知識體大本來就需要時間要好好的評估那從上一任到這一屆我想"},{"start":79.432,"end":93.728,"text":"我們辦公室都非常持續跟辦公室跟那個教育部來追蹤布版跟這個整個條文的進度那在不分黨派的委員的共同努力下其實院版的條文也從無到有"},{"start":94.409,"end":116.852,"text":"其實很有機會來進立法院審查現在是半路又殺出了這個才化法修法二修讓一切停擺所以本席還要強調一次營養午餐專法本來就試設龐大的這個國家經費相關立法本來就很不容易但是在野黨卻讓這一切更的更難了不幫忙就算了還扯後腿"},{"start":117.492,"end":146.588,"text":"所以在財化法被惡修的情況之下那負責最終財政這個責任的中央政府他根本不敢不敢隨便提出法案嘛好那這個會期剩下兩個禮拜喔那院版的財化法繼續被卡所以要請教部長是說你認為有哪些涉及這個中央地方事權分配的這個教育部相關的工作事務無法獲得這個解決那或進一步的推動讓你最心痛"},{"start":149.878,"end":175.893,"text":"就是試射對 試射這些因為才化法被卡因為確實這一個過去我們當然從中央的一個政策裡邊它有一定的一些從專業理想性但是我也跟委員報告因為這個營養午餐專法之前本來就有十個縣市已經免費推動那當然這是屬於地方的一個權限但是這一個我們"},{"start":177.714,"end":196.492,"text":"教文会里边在讨论这个营养专法的时候后来又陆续在今年年初又陆续有宪事都宣布了所以现在22个地方宪事确实有20个宪事它是倾向这个政策来支持学童的免费使用"},{"start":197.153,"end":213.235,"text":"那當然從教育部的立場我們當然會希望就是說地方勇於承擔從地方自治法來看這是好事但是怎麼確保學童吃得健康 吃得安全然後能夠確保他在"},{"start":214.556,"end":243.007,"text":"這個發展的過程能夠受到一個更多的支持包含這一個許多的這個食安的問題都能夠解決我想這是教育部在這個地方在這個本地地方的前者在推動的時候我們期待中央跟地方怎麼樣共同努力包含能夠確保這個三張EQ我們透過整個監督的平台裡面登錄的平台裡面去確保我們的食材包含需要中央"},{"start":243.807,"end":270.674,"text":"更多的一些專業來提供專業的協助在這個營養上的一些機制上的一個協助包含這個跟地方來合作怎麼有許多的這些做得好的經驗能夠怎麼擴散我們有一些監督跟揭露的機制教育部也願意來編一些經會給好的地方政府在營養午餐推動我們也會給予一些支持做這樣的補充說明"},{"start":272.284,"end":294.655,"text":"那再來針對教育部就是上週公布這個校事會議相關的這個辦法的修正那本席在去年5月就曾經召開記者會關注這個校事會議濫訴的這個議題那這個會期也有分別在記者會質詢的時候都有跟教育部來探討這個相關的精進的方向那回到這次修法的這個重點"},{"start":295.855,"end":322.51,"text":"很重要就是說我們要減少檢舉案量並且分流那主要就是因為學校接獲檢舉後那經校長召開會議認定行為人涉及考核辦法的教師懲處的情況者那他就應適用或准用這個考核辦法去規定辦理那可是我想要關注的是說我們在QA裡面看見的就是說如果"},{"start":323.11,"end":334.492,"text":"涉及考核辦法的案例由校內人員調查那不用送到校事會議可是必要時得指派校外人員調查"},{"start":336.549,"end":362.349,"text":"教師團體就認為說你這個必要時只派校外人員調查就很可能讓例外成為常態不僅會削弱校園的內部專業自治權也沒有辦法減緩學校內部行政事務繁雜的狀況所以想要請教部長是說就15面我們要怎麼避免涉及考核辦法的案例都走到所謂的"},{"start":363.67,"end":390.844,"text":"必要時指派校外人員調查那教育部的整體評估這次修改的辦法真的可以有效的減少那個案量嗎我想謝謝委員關心其實當時會有一個必要的時候是因為台灣譬如說以小學2600多所裡面我們大概有四成多是六班以下你根本這個特別小型的學校裡面老師"},{"start":392.728,"end":411.774,"text":"沒有幾位所以我們才會說有這樣的假設有一個學校規模太小而造成一些同仁之間的一些不必要的一些困擾這時候可以有例外就是說他即便進入了這個考核辦法裡面本來是校內人員處理嘛對 研哲還是校內的人員"},{"start":412.694,"end":438.37,"text":"就是说我们希望恢复到本来我们去寻堂观客老师本来就是一个班级经营一个小事情不要动不动就进入到我们现在的校事会议才会有这个设计分流但是我也希望我们教师团体必须要去理解我们在那么多的一个团体里我们找到了一些解决的一个方式那让我们能够大家放心走一段"},{"start":439.44,"end":442.354,"text":"最壞 對不起在我的看法最壞也不過跟"},{"start":443.707,"end":470.499,"text":"過去一樣 現在一樣那總是有一個大家都很辛苦在往好的方向在走是不是能夠相信我們對校長 對老師我們會有更多的一些支持也希望他往好的方向來發展這事實上也是家長最大的期望家長就希望他能夠安心的放心的小孩子教到學校當然 我想教師團體會擔心這個也不是沒有道理"},{"start":471.119,"end":487.618,"text":"因為他怕真的例外變常他就說有的學校的校長就真的是沒有肩膀所以他會覺得說雖然已經分流了可是到了那裡去他還是希望說就直接還是讓校外的調查人員來調查 我都沒事所以"},{"start":487.998,"end":515.161,"text":"某個程度啦 這個也不是說像是團體不擔心所以我覺得未來怎麼走或者是不是有提出一些條件來修正 我想這個部長還可以再思考啦那另外我本期要提的是說這次我們還有新增所謂的輔佐人參與制度我們民定行為人被害人接受訪談的時候得依法由輔佐人協同到場來參與那以及協助理解這個程序跟表達意見"},{"start":515.942,"end":531.558,"text":"那這其實齁 說真的在現行的制度裡就有它的規範 類似的規範所以教師團體它現在關心的其實是現在學校它現場請來這些外聘的調查人員大多都是法律專業大多是法律專業 那並沒有實務的"},{"start":533.58,"end":539.186,"text":"消學的這個經驗那所以在調查過程中他會比較沒有辦法針對教學實務作業來詢問當事人那也沒有實務現場的脈絡所以本席要強調的是教師團體他訴求說調查小組"},{"start":550.216,"end":572.487,"text":"納入兩名 學校老師或者是家長或者是其他的校內外人員那他這宗旨其實是要協助調查要讓調查報告更為完整度更高而不是單純是要協助當事人調查過程的陪伴或支持所以部長教育部對於這個輔佐人的概念到底是什麼"},{"start":572.967,"end":588.367,"text":"就這部分有沒有機會可以調整或者考量教師團體的訴求跟家長學生的立場的時候你到底有碰到什麼樣的難處才會做出就是你現在訂定這個基本上跟原本的制度沒什麼兩樣"},{"start":590.417,"end":613.32,"text":"過去他確實有一些學校拼了比較多的法律的專業背景但是我們也透過這一年來的一個資料的蒐集我們希望要有一些包含心理學輔導的專家或者兒童等等的一些那所有的過去的校士會議確實存在了一些問題所以我們這一次的一個秀我們希望"},{"start":614.127,"end":638.607,"text":"真正了解學校的老師的還是校內的老師代表這一個家長他的某種程度對學校的實際的運作他們會比較熟悉那當然有客觀的人大家回到無罪推論真正的去協助這一個問題當然等於說舉花人他一定有些的校外調查人員是從這個人力資料庫去勾選的嘛"},{"start":639.434,"end":665.535,"text":"我們有兩位是從這個人才庫對 這個人才庫是地方的教育局提供給學校嘛是對 那所以他如果提供的這些人才庫就我理解是五倍嘛五倍的讓你去自己學校去勾選嘛那你五倍人才庫給的有可能全部都是法律專學我想我們往好的來看我們校長現在其實也實際在印度有發現過去的問題"},{"start":667.202,"end":686.322,"text":"那學校要學校如果每天昏昏老老這個校長大概也很難繼續做下去所以校長應該本於專業怎麼樣來協助從平常就要增加這個跟老師的一個溝通然後去協助他而不是拿著棍子或者鞭子就我想校長責無旁貸"},{"start":687.343,"end":713.758,"text":"這個部分我們就是讓這個1月12號公佈的我們至少有一些理想性是包含剛才講的做陪伴者輔助人也是當時我們跟基層包含教師會的一個這個教師團體的一個提出來的建議所以我們也從善如流把它加進來類似這樣的等等我想是不是我們也會滾動的修正因為"},{"start":714.318,"end":733.175,"text":"就讓你現在的現行先走一段是然後你會滾動修正是好 那我讓一點點時間我一併再追問一下教育部有宣布我們就是兼任大科老師的重點費有調整20%可是我們接到教學資源老師他們的陳情他們沒有跟著一起調整"},{"start":733.935,"end":760.837,"text":"那可是他們原本領的是跟這些戴克老師的終點計酬是一樣的所以我想要表達是說其實他們他們其實說真的我們在國家語言發展法裡面有明定喔說這些老師是以專職方式為主為原則可是現在我們幾乎都是用兼任的啦都是終點計酬的好那既然他們主要來源是終點計酬那我覺得是不是這個有必要來調整看看"},{"start":762.231,"end":779.751,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我最近從我過去在大學的經驗專任跟兼任的終點會一定是一致的然後我上個禮拜我發現這一個本土老師本土研的老師或者這個代理代課我們其實當時的一個這一個"},{"start":782.714,"end":811.989,"text":"修正了一個精神就是希望它一體適用那也跟我們報告但是我們在過去的行政程序確實還要走一些程序那這個禮拜我們會走完那一個程序那我想我也希望也特別跟彭署長講說我們應該在未來這一個機制建立以後就一體適用不要在這邊又走一次這邊還要行程序再去給院長核定我想這個部分我想我們是有共識的"},{"start":812.349,"end":837.9,"text":"因為我們已經把修正把教學資源老師把它更名了嘛本來叫做教學資源工作人員嘛所以我想這個是對表達他們對教學這個資源人員的尊重所以我期待說這個在終點放上實際上實質在課堂裡面授課嘛所以這個東西不應該因為身份上的差異沒錯 沒錯 而有不同好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝委員關心 謝謝好 謝謝林怡謹委員請部長署長回座"},{"start":847.801,"end":876.07,"text":"現在是處理臨時提案的時間那今天有張雅琳委員等其他兩位委員提出臨時提案一案那請宣讀臨時提案政府今年推動教師待遇調整核心目的在於支持教師專業減輕教學現場負擔並穩定教育人力然而114年12月公布教師待遇調整方案中多數均得回溯至114年9月1日生效"},{"start":876.65,"end":905.585,"text":"唯獨特殊教育教師加急僅至115年2月1日起實施造成同一政策下對特教教師之差別待遇特殊教育教師長期承擔高度情緒勞動專業要求與教學壓力其工作負擔與專業強度不亞於一般教師甚至更為繁重此次調整方案已影響現場士氣亦不利於特殊教育教師之留任與穩定"},{"start":906.785,"end":923.86,"text":"進而衝擊特殊教育學生之授教權益中上請教育部針對特殊教育教師加緊為比照其他教師待遇調整回溯至114年9月1日一案建請教育部研議補救及回溯機制提案人張雅琳 陳秀寶 煥雲 宣讀完畢"},{"start":926.428,"end":950.335,"text":"好 那請問提案委員有無補充或說明的意見好 因為我剛剛其實也有特別在因為我其實已經講過很多次了啦所以我想這個內容應該沒有太大的問題嘛那剛剛是有講說希望是給我們給教育部一個月的時間那我想就是這邊如果沒有任何的問題的話那我的意見就是如上 謝謝好 因為張雅琳委員的確剛才也在質詢的時候也問到那教育部這邊有意見嗎"},{"start":954.022,"end":970.311,"text":"我想我們在一個月因為涉及到地方我們要跟地方來討論那倒是利用這個也澄清一下我們特教老師在當導師他有帶班他導師會還是一樣已經就是提升了導師會是提升了但是特教的這個職務的加級我想我們跟地方再來討論看怎麼樣有一個好的一些共識謝謝"},{"start":981.818,"end":1002.746,"text":"好 那我也再釐清一下就是說我知道特教老師如果有兼任導師他是可以有這個佳績 導師費是有的可是問題是並不是每個特教老師都有有時候他們可能是兩個人留當老師導師所以我想這個部分還是蠻重要的啦那就是再麻煩教育部多幫忙 謝謝好 這樣雙方沒有異議那就無意間我們就招案通過好 謝謝繼續進行會議"},{"start":1007.728,"end":1012.432,"text":"一個月沒錯 這邊已經寫了一個月了好那就現在請羅志強委員質詢時間4分鐘有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":1028.274,"end":1050.429,"text":"委員好部長好請教一下教育部這次修正教師解併辦法跟成績考核辦法是想幫老師來解決問題還是想幫老師製造問題找麻煩呢沒有從來沒有找麻煩的念頭所以是想幫老師解決問題當然部長這就是我要跟你講的事情"},{"start":1051.345,"end":1060.46,"text":"那如果你是纯粹是想帮老师解决问题你怎么会搞到教师团体们群起抗议呢我相信很多委员都办公室接到抗议老师的抗议了你知道吧"},{"start":1061.26,"end":1083.361,"text":"我知道那我就不能理解啦那想請問到底是老師們杞人憂天還是教育部溝通不足還是老師們不相信教育部過去你們的公信力不夠是哪個因素你認為是幫老師解決問題結果老師們認為你是在製造問題找他們麻煩呢"},{"start":1085.245,"end":1113.774,"text":"我想台湾的教育我从这个前年的520进来我确实发现我们学校里边多一份的不信任不管从学校对地方对中央或者教师团体家长团体我想我们确实在努力希望能够有一个更多的这样的一个对老师的一个支持我跟部长说起码我觉得教育部真的这件事就要好好检查"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}