{"error":false,"id":["16722"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":16722,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16722","日期":"2025-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-22-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2025-05-29T08:30:00+08:00","結束時間":"2025-05-29T13:07:00+08:00","影片長度":"04:37:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373ddd65533a85eaa9af6425655b8120616fa12e9ca99aa835c0303cb256d0e912735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算解凍案22案。）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:30:00 - 13:07:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":696.66471875,"end":699.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1806.2128437500003,"end":1806.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1806.4153437500001,"end":1806.4490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1806.4490937500002,"end":1806.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1806.66846875,"end":1806.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1807.4615937500002,"end":1817.0297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1817.0297187500003,"end":1818.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1819.30784375,"end":1836.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1836.6384687500001,"end":1860.8709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1861.93409375,"end":1881.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1882.1503437500003,"end":1889.0522187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1889.62596875,"end":1897.7090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1898.3334687500003,"end":1899.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1902.72096875,"end":1902.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1902.7378437500001,"end":1919.5284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1920.2034687500002,"end":1922.1947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1922.5659687500001,"end":1925.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1926.4978437500001,"end":1929.5353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1931.7797187500003,"end":1935.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1936.8084687500002,"end":1957.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1959.1340937500001,"end":1989.0028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1993.0190937500001,"end":1996.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1998.04784375,"end":1998.2672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1998.8747187500003,"end":1999.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2000.5622187500003,"end":2013.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2013.52221875,"end":2013.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2015.34471875,"end":2025.4190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2025.8240937500002,"end":2029.6209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2030.0934687500003,"end":2048.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2048.40284375,"end":2053.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2053.8028437499997,"end":2073.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2074.01909375,"end":2100.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2100.6309687500006,"end":2113.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2113.79346875,"end":2124.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2126.80409375,"end":2127.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2127.59721875,"end":2131.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2132.00159375,"end":2150.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2150.8172187500004,"end":2152.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2153.3484687500004,"end":2153.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2154.05721875,"end":2165.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2165.6334687500002,"end":2172.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2172.65346875,"end":2178.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2178.7115937500002,"end":2179.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2179.72409375,"end":2190.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2191.09784375,"end":2206.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2206.5553437500002,"end":2228.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2230.83846875,"end":2231.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2231.68221875,"end":2241.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2242.0603437500004,"end":2245.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2246.44784375,"end":2255.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2256.8259687500004,"end":2291.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2292.24659375,"end":2296.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2304.16034375,"end":2304.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2305.6959687500002,"end":2307.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2308.5478437500005,"end":2310.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2311.46721875,"end":2320.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2321.71034375,"end":2325.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2325.62534375,"end":2328.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2328.3590937500003,"end":2332.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2333.6240937500006,"end":2341.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2341.35284375,"end":2344.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2344.5759687500004,"end":2345.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2345.63909375,"end":2348.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2349.6553437500006,"end":2363.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2364.3534687500005,"end":2370.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2371.7615937500004,"end":2374.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2375.5584687500004,"end":2376.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2376.9590937500006,"end":2378.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2378.96721875,"end":2383.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2383.5740937500004,"end":2393.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2394.64409375,"end":2409.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2410.43909375,"end":2413.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2414.1853437500004,"end":2416.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2417.0878437500005,"end":2424.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2424.71534375,"end":2426.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2426.75721875,"end":2427.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2427.73596875,"end":2438.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2438.9578437500004,"end":2442.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2442.8222187500005,"end":2456.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2457.6384687500004,"end":2467.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2467.61159375,"end":2472.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2473.3659687500003,"end":2475.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2476.36971875,"end":2476.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2477.4665937500004,"end":2481.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2482.4109687500004,"end":2490.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2490.9834687500006,"end":2492.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2492.82284375,"end":2501.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2502.7115937500002,"end":2508.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2508.76971875,"end":2514.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2514.79409375,"end":2528.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2529.3740937500006,"end":2531.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2531.5340937500005,"end":2533.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2533.5253437500005,"end":2545.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2546.2490937500006,"end":2561.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2561.70659375,"end":2566.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2567.6465937500006,"end":2570.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2571.34221875,"end":2574.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2574.90284375,"end":2582.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2582.3278437500003,"end":2584.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2585.50034375,"end":2586.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2587.77846875,"end":2589.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2590.57971875,"end":2592.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2593.33034375,"end":2594.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2594.9334687500004,"end":2601.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2602.2909687500005,"end":2604.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2605.63221875,"end":2609.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2609.42909375,"end":2612.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2613.71534375,"end":2616.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2617.2928437500004,"end":2629.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2629.8815937500003,"end":2635.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2635.6865937500006,"end":2642.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2643.22971875,"end":2655.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2655.9197187500004,"end":2659.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2659.5984687500004,"end":2675.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2676.55784375,"end":2682.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2682.36284375,"end":2693.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2693.93909375,"end":2703.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2704.3340937500006,"end":2710.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2710.74659375,"end":2712.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2712.7547187500004,"end":2715.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2715.80909375,"end":2721.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2721.76596875,"end":2727.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2727.5372187500006,"end":2729.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2729.91659375,"end":2732.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2736.95346875,"end":2752.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2753.1534687500007,"end":2777.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2782.2628437500007,"end":2783.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2784.87846875,"end":2786.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2789.31659375,"end":2789.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2789.80596875,"end":2789.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2789.8565937500007,"end":2789.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2789.9747187500006,"end":2790.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2790.2784687500007,"end":2910.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2911.79534375,"end":2936.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2933.5809687500005,"end":2933.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2936.33159375,"end":2972.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2937.4453437500006,"end":2937.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2953.6622187500006,"end":2953.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2960.14221875,"end":2960.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2973.27096875,"end":2973.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2974.1990937500004,"end":2975.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2976.34221875,"end":2981.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2980.84784375,"end":2987.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2981.9615937500002,"end":2982.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2985.48846875,"end":2986.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2987.47971875,"end":3000.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3000.6590937500005,"end":3022.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3021.24659375,"end":3024.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3022.56284375,"end":3022.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3024.5203437500004,"end":3064.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3064.14284375,"end":3066.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3066.48846875,"end":3098.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3098.50034375,"end":3107.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3105.2334687500006,"end":3105.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3107.2753437500005,"end":3148.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3148.4840937500003,"end":3148.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3148.63596875,"end":3148.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3149.4459687500002,"end":3153.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3153.9853437500005,"end":3155.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3155.7234687500004,"end":3161.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3159.1659687500005,"end":3159.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3160.09409375,"end":3160.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3160.44846875,"end":3161.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3161.3259687500004,"end":3161.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3161.4609687500006,"end":3166.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3166.1522187500004,"end":3173.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3173.5603437500004,"end":3175.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3175.0284687500007,"end":3177.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3177.0534687500003,"end":3185.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3178.8084687500004,"end":3179.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3184.39409375,"end":3184.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3185.0690937500003,"end":3185.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3185.0859687500006,"end":3185.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3185.23784375,"end":3192.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3191.9372187500003,"end":3197.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3198.2147187500004,"end":3198.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3198.9909687500003,"end":3205.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3203.8678437500002,"end":3212.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3212.89596875,"end":3213.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3213.8240937500004,"end":3223.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3222.5822187500007,"end":3226.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3226.3115937500006,"end":3249.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3250.0040937500007,"end":3258.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3257.7665937500005,"end":3266.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3262.18784375,"end":3263.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3267.13221875,"end":3269.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3269.0222187500003,"end":3276.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3275.7722187500003,"end":3276.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3276.97034375,"end":3278.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3278.59034375,"end":3280.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3280.86846875,"end":3282.9103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3283.6190937500005,"end":3411.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3412.0547187500006,"end":3424.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3421.67346875,"end":3422.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3422.56784375,"end":3445.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3444.97784375,"end":3453.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3453.4659687500007,"end":3455.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3453.85409375,"end":3454.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3454.51221875,"end":3459.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3458.49471875,"end":3481.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3478.00221875,"end":3478.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3480.8203437500006,"end":3482.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3485.4440937500003,"end":3490.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3497.71221875,"end":3500.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3500.7159687500007,"end":3502.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3505.0359687500004,"end":3505.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3505.74471875,"end":3529.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3530.14596875,"end":3555.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3555.6778437500006,"end":3559.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3559.44096875,"end":3560.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3561.31409375,"end":3569.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3568.4522187500006,"end":3571.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3571.0340937500005,"end":3576.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3572.4347187500007,"end":3572.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3573.8690937500005,"end":3574.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3576.24846875,"end":3581.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3581.31096875,"end":3641.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3585.41159375,"end":3585.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3641.7740937500002,"end":3661.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3661.9059687500003,"end":3665.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3665.8209687500002,"end":3667.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3667.8122187500003,"end":3668.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3668.04846875,"end":3676.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3677.00909375,"end":3687.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3687.74159375,"end":3698.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3699.19971875,"end":3731.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3731.8865937500004,"end":3770.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3770.61471875,"end":3829.9640937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3775.37346875,"end":3775.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3775.74471875,"end":3775.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3775.7615937500004,"end":3775.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3830.5040937500007,"end":3835.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3833.9297187500006,"end":3837.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3835.3134687500005,"end":3835.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3837.9628437500005,"end":3839.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3841.13534375,"end":3887.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3887.96346875,"end":3897.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3898.25721875,"end":3918.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3900.2822187500005,"end":3900.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3915.31784375,"end":3915.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3915.6384687500004,"end":3915.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3918.5240937500002,"end":3948.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3948.5447187500004,"end":3977.1984687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3977.63721875,"end":3986.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3986.36159375,"end":3993.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3993.85409375,"end":3995.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3994.5459687500006,"end":3996.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3995.9128437500003,"end":3995.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3997.4147187500002,"end":4001.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4001.6672187500008,"end":4004.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4010.35784375,"end":4012.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4013.37846875,"end":4015.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4018.49159375,"end":4018.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4018.5084687500002,"end":4018.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4018.7615937500004,"end":4018.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4018.79534375,"end":4019.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4019.8078437500008,"end":4040.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4041.99846875,"end":4049.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4049.5753437500007,"end":4049.7609687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4049.7609687500008,"end":4049.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4049.96346875,"end":4053.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4054.5197187500007,"end":4054.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4054.8234687500008,"end":4057.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4058.02971875,"end":4058.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4058.0465937500003,"end":4058.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4058.1815937500005,"end":4058.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4058.2322187500004,"end":4058.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4059.05909375,"end":4061.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4062.5184687500005,"end":4064.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4065.03284375,"end":4125.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4125.02346875,"end":4127.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4127.82471875,"end":4142.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4138.60784375,"end":4138.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4138.6415937500005,"end":4138.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4139.805968750001,"end":4140.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4142.40471875,"end":4151.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4150.673468749999,"end":4161.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4161.96284375,"end":4162.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4162.030343750001,"end":4174.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4174.97346875,"end":4175.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4175.1590937500005,"end":4180.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4180.677218750001,"end":4180.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4180.964093750001,"end":4181.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4181.234093749999,"end":4181.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4181.63909375,"end":4181.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4181.97659375,"end":4222.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4222.442843750001,"end":4240.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4236.735968749999,"end":4236.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4236.76971875,"end":4237.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4240.43159375,"end":4268.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4268.241593750001,"end":4268.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4268.59596875,"end":4268.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4268.62971875,"end":4268.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4268.984093749999,"end":4269.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4269.47346875,"end":4324.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4271.59971875,"end":4272.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4272.561593750001,"end":4273.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4324.55346875,"end":4328.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4329.2615937499995,"end":4329.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4329.278468750001,"end":4340.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4341.0740937499995,"end":4384.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4385.185343749999,"end":4387.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4385.624093750001,"end":4385.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4386.602843750001,"end":4386.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4386.77159375,"end":4429.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4429.532843749999,"end":4459.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4460.565968749999,"end":4482.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4481.96346875,"end":4574.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4548.0965937500005,"end":4548.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4548.11346875,"end":4548.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4548.14721875,"end":4548.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4576.682843750001,"end":4578.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4579.38284375,"end":4585.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4586.13284375,"end":4591.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4591.499093750001,"end":4596.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4595.21159375,"end":4596.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4597.70909375,"end":4601.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4616.5584687499995,"end":4617.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4631.45909375,"end":4633.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4633.38284375,"end":4634.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4635.559718750001,"end":4636.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4640.234093749999,"end":4652.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4652.9072187500005,"end":4657.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4657.42971875,"end":4660.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4662.0028437500005,"end":4662.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4662.036593750001,"end":4662.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4663.36971875,"end":4669.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4669.765343749999,"end":4680.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4681.257218750001,"end":4686.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4686.032843749999,"end":4693.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4690.8084687499995,"end":4697.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4697.03534375,"end":4698.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4699.56659375,"end":4717.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4715.530343750001,"end":4749.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4749.921593749999,"end":4757.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4749.9384687500005,"end":4750.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4750.88346875,"end":4750.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4754.5115937499995,"end":4754.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4758.02159375,"end":4758.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4758.966593749999,"end":4759.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4760.78909375,"end":4760.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4760.805968750001,"end":4761.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4761.85221875,"end":4762.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4762.628468750001,"end":4764.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4764.99096875,"end":4767.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4768.38284375,"end":4779.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4776.229718750001,"end":4776.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4778.27159375,"end":4778.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4779.030968749999,"end":4781.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4781.07284375,"end":4781.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4781.64659375,"end":4788.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4787.40096875,"end":4796.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4791.839093750001,"end":4793.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4797.6103437500005,"end":4835.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4822.28159375,"end":4822.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4824.34034375,"end":4824.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4830.29721875,"end":4830.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4835.477843750001,"end":4835.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4835.528468750001,"end":4836.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4837.215968750001,"end":4838.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4838.852843750001,"end":4844.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4842.53159375,"end":4844.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4844.337218750001,"end":4860.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4861.819718750001,"end":4862.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4863.72659375,"end":4866.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4866.460343750001,"end":4872.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4873.66596875,"end":4876.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4876.97346875,"end":4877.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4877.02409375,"end":4877.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4878.39096875,"end":4879.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4879.6903437500005,"end":4887.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4879.724093750001,"end":4880.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4887.99284375,"end":4889.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4891.064093749999,"end":4893.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4893.038468750001,"end":4893.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4894.2197187500005,"end":4894.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4894.23659375,"end":4907.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4895.13096875,"end":4896.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4898.59034375,"end":4898.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4899.85596875,"end":4901.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4906.200968749999,"end":4906.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4908.29346875,"end":4913.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4913.59221875,"end":4914.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4913.87909375,"end":4913.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4914.975968750001,"end":4918.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4918.84034375,"end":4939.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4938.76971875,"end":4941.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4941.58784375,"end":4946.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4944.0009687500005,"end":4997.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4997.9334687499995,"end":4999.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4999.958468750001,"end":5031.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5032.47659375,"end":5033.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5034.737843750001,"end":5036.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5036.7459687499995,"end":5045.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5045.26784375,"end":5048.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5046.34784375,"end":5048.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5048.659718750001,"end":5076.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5076.874718749999,"end":5089.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5089.51409375,"end":5090.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5090.25659375,"end":5090.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5090.67846875,"end":5090.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5091.28596875,"end":5111.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5101.309718750001,"end":5101.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5109.882218750001,"end":5110.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5110.60784375,"end":5110.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5111.97471875,"end":5146.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5139.02534375,"end":5139.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5146.028468750001,"end":5152.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5153.6728437500005,"end":5153.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5153.97659375,"end":5189.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5189.02596875,"end":5203.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5199.083468750001,"end":5199.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5203.09971875,"end":5207.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5207.03159375,"end":5213.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5213.764718750001,"end":5229.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5227.484093749999,"end":5228.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5228.96909375,"end":5229.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5230.15034375,"end":5233.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5230.622843749999,"end":5231.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5233.964093750001,"end":5243.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5245.33784375,"end":5246.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5246.9072187500005,"end":5248.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5248.9490937499995,"end":5253.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5253.62346875,"end":5254.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5256.01971875,"end":5259.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5256.272843750001,"end":5261.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5260.74471875,"end":5261.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5261.92596875,"end":5264.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5266.1278437500005,"end":5300.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5270.093468749999,"end":5270.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5270.852843750001,"end":5270.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5271.42659375,"end":5271.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5279.02034375,"end":5279.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5279.425343750001,"end":5279.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5297.41409375,"end":5297.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5300.012843750001,"end":5300.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5300.282843749999,"end":5301.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5301.02534375,"end":5301.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5301.37971875,"end":5303.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5303.97846875,"end":5304.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5304.38346875,"end":5312.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5310.49221875,"end":5311.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5312.753468750001,"end":5328.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5312.78721875,"end":5313.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5315.6053437499995,"end":5315.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5317.022843750001,"end":5317.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5317.394093750001,"end":5317.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5326.2197187500005,"end":5331.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5331.130343750001,"end":5337.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5331.40034375,"end":5331.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5333.425343750001,"end":5343.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5339.83784375,"end":5340.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5340.63096875,"end":5340.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5340.81659375,"end":5340.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5340.86721875,"end":5341.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5341.10346875,"end":5341.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5341.94721875,"end":5342.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5342.03159375,"end":5342.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5345.001593749999,"end":5364.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5352.089093750001,"end":5352.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5362.61909375,"end":5363.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5364.036593750001,"end":5375.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5369.385968750001,"end":5370.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5374.532843749999,"end":5417.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5417.02409375,"end":5427.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5417.327843749999,"end":5418.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5418.4247187500005,"end":5418.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5418.593468749999,"end":5420.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5427.4022187499995,"end":5429.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5428.70159375,"end":5434.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5432.02596875,"end":5466.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5435.02971875,"end":5436.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5447.60159375,"end":5451.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5464.122218750001,"end":5464.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5465.53971875,"end":5475.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5467.56471875,"end":5468.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5475.276593750001,"end":5482.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5477.26784375,"end":5477.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5478.128468750001,"end":5479.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5481.35159375,"end":5497.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5496.33659375,"end":5496.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5497.97346875,"end":5518.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5498.952218750001,"end":5500.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5502.86721875,"end":5502.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5502.934718750001,"end":5503.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5518.03784375,"end":5528.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5520.265343749999,"end":5521.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5521.446593750001,"end":5521.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5528.17971875,"end":5543.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5531.03159375,"end":5532.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5537.88284375,"end":5538.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5543.02971875,"end":5543.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5543.18159375,"end":5543.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5543.4853437500005,"end":5557.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5553.036593750001,"end":5553.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5557.154093749999,"end":5557.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5558.099093750001,"end":5558.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5558.11596875,"end":5577.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5575.66596875,"end":5576.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5576.189093749999,"end":5576.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5576.3915937500005,"end":5576.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5576.72909375,"end":5577.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5577.792218750001,"end":5580.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5593.907843749999,"end":5596.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5606.530343750001,"end":5607.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5608.622843749999,"end":5610.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5613.34784375,"end":5613.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5613.95534375,"end":5613.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5613.972218750001,"end":5614.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5615.895968750001,"end":5636.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5637.327218750001,"end":5638.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5644.33034375,"end":5645.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5647.38471875,"end":5649.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5649.460343750001,"end":5650.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5652.34596875,"end":5671.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5676.089093750001,"end":5676.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5677.50659375,"end":5678.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5679.497843749999,"end":5680.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5681.151593750001,"end":5707.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5708.03346875,"end":5723.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5724.58784375,"end":5731.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5731.70909375,"end":5736.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5736.85596875,"end":5746.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5747.149718750001,"end":5756.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5757.645968750001,"end":5778.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5779.04346875,"end":5837.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5838.52784375,"end":5878.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5879.12909375,"end":5880.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5879.7197187500005,"end":5906.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5881.6434687500005,"end":5881.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5901.269093750001,"end":5901.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5901.33659375,"end":5901.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5901.53909375,"end":5901.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5901.640343749999,"end":5901.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5905.74096875,"end":5907.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5906.41596875,"end":5910.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5909.63909375,"end":5944.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5944.722218750001,"end":5956.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5945.481593750001,"end":5945.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5947.27034375,"end":5947.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5947.32096875,"end":5947.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5956.83846875,"end":5964.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5964.58409375,"end":5972.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5970.49034375,"end":5970.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5972.717843750001,"end":5987.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5986.60596875,"end":6025.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5989.79534375,"end":5990.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6001.911593750001,"end":6002.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6016.913468750001,"end":6016.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6016.93034375,"end":6018.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6018.972218750001,"end":6019.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6019.09034375,"end":6019.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6024.25409375,"end":6047.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6029.4853437500005,"end":6029.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6029.519093750001,"end":6031.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6041.010968750001,"end":6041.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6047.423468750001,"end":6050.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6050.5790937500005,"end":6051.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6051.3553437499995,"end":6052.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6051.372218750001,"end":6052.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6052.823468750001,"end":6055.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6054.57846875,"end":6066.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6067.352843750001,"end":6082.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6084.44721875,"end":6085.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6085.24034375,"end":6087.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6087.29909375,"end":6088.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6088.024718750001,"end":6090.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6089.96534375,"end":6090.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6090.91034375,"end":6090.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6090.927218750001,"end":6090.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6090.96096875,"end":6090.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6091.19721875,"end":6095.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6095.618468750001,"end":6096.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6095.83784375,"end":6095.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6096.58034375,"end":6099.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6099.499718749999,"end":6145.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6145.872218750001,"end":6154.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6153.63471875,"end":6181.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6154.3603437500005,"end":6155.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6182.77784375,"end":6185.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6185.41034375,"end":6222.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6188.9540937500005,"end":6189.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6223.3622187500005,"end":6230.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6229.18409375,"end":6231.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6231.00659375,"end":6232.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6231.81659375,"end":6260.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6261.364718750001,"end":6262.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6261.837218750001,"end":6263.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6263.11971875,"end":6267.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6267.49034375,"end":6268.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6268.57034375,"end":6270.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6269.093468749999,"end":6272.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6272.569718750001,"end":6284.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6282.458468750001,"end":6283.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6284.58471875,"end":6287.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6286.89659375,"end":6288.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6287.993468750001,"end":6289.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6288.972218750001,"end":6291.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6291.48659375,"end":6293.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6293.41034375,"end":6303.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6298.75971875,"end":6299.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6303.80534375,"end":6305.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6304.64909375,"end":6308.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6308.59784375,"end":6309.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6308.952218750001,"end":6320.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6315.66846875,"end":6315.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6315.735968750001,"end":6316.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6318.655343750001,"end":6319.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6319.93784375,"end":6368.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6323.5322187500005,"end":6324.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6368.993468750001,"end":6374.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6373.583468750001,"end":6381.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6377.02596875,"end":6378.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6381.042218750001,"end":6381.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6381.075968749999,"end":6381.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6381.10971875,"end":6381.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6382.13909375,"end":6384.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6382.729718750001,"end":6382.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6383.657843750001,"end":6390.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6390.30659375,"end":6399.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6399.317843750001,"end":6412.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6402.557843750001,"end":6402.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6402.86159375,"end":6402.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6408.649718750001,"end":6408.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6408.66659375,"end":6410.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6411.467843750001,"end":6417.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6417.10409375,"end":6418.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6418.774718750001,"end":6419.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6419.1122187500005,"end":6430.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6430.215968750001,"end":6430.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6431.17784375,"end":6431.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6431.194718750001,"end":6432.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6431.26221875,"end":6433.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6433.75971875,"end":6437.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6438.0965937500005,"end":6439.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6439.85159375,"end":6441.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6441.690968750001,"end":6451.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6443.7665937500005,"end":6444.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6451.394093750001,"end":6453.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6452.91284375,"end":6459.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6457.14846875,"end":6457.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6457.97534375,"end":6458.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6459.831593750001,"end":6460.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6460.32096875,"end":6470.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6460.94534375,"end":6461.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6470.715968750001,"end":6473.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6473.061593750001,"end":6474.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6474.81659375,"end":6482.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6476.655968749999,"end":6477.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6478.394093750001,"end":6478.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6482.798468750001,"end":6496.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6492.11346875,"end":6492.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6493.69971875,"end":6494.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6496.33221875,"end":6496.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6496.905968749999,"end":6521.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6522.30284375,"end":6531.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6532.343468749999,"end":6536.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6536.54534375,"end":6536.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6537.827843749999,"end":6538.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6538.80659375,"end":6543.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6543.85221875,"end":6555.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6555.81659375,"end":6558.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6558.786593750001,"end":6559.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6559.529093749999,"end":6560.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6561.19971875,"end":6582.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6582.276593750001,"end":6583.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6583.2215937500005,"end":6583.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6584.520968750001,"end":6586.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6585.735968750001,"end":6585.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6585.7528437500005,"end":6586.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6587.59221875,"end":6597.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6603.5897187499995,"end":6605.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6607.015343749999,"end":6608.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6608.97284375,"end":6609.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6612.077843749999,"end":6617.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6618.169718749999,"end":6644.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6644.5115937499995,"end":6644.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6644.96721875,"end":6653.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6652.9490937499995,"end":6654.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6656.02034375,"end":6656.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6656.03721875,"end":6656.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6656.07096875,"end":6656.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6657.505343750001,"end":6668.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6668.96346875,"end":6680.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6680.13471875,"end":6680.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6680.30346875,"end":6688.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6688.84221875,"end":6693.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6693.887843750001,"end":6701.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6701.36346875,"end":6705.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6705.970343750001,"end":6708.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6709.7840937500005,"end":6709.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6709.9697187500005,"end":6710.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6710.948468750001,"end":6721.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6722.001593750001,"end":6727.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6727.99221875,"end":6750.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6751.04346875,"end":6760.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6759.970343750001,"end":6771.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6761.337218750001,"end":6762.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6772.305968750001,"end":6775.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6772.4072187500005,"end":6772.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6775.47846875,"end":6780.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6780.827843749999,"end":6782.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6782.700968749999,"end":6783.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6783.02159375,"end":6791.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6793.04534375,"end":6797.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6797.68596875,"end":6830.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6822.981593750001,"end":6823.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6830.74409375,"end":6834.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6834.3553437499995,"end":6851.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6852.61409375,"end":6863.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6862.874093750001,"end":6863.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6863.9540937500005,"end":6863.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6864.173468750001,"end":6880.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6880.50846875,"end":6881.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6882.14534375,"end":6883.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6883.84971875,"end":6887.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6888.11909375,"end":6889.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6889.587218750001,"end":6897.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6898.446593750001,"end":6901.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6901.83846875,"end":6915.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6915.20346875,"end":6928.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6928.3153437500005,"end":6931.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6931.774718750001,"end":6934.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6934.28909375,"end":6937.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6936.7528437500005,"end":6947.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6946.962218750001,"end":7010.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6949.1053437499995,"end":6952.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6953.104718750001,"end":6953.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6967.212218750001,"end":6968.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7010.02409375,"end":7033.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7033.109093750001,"end":7066.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7067.34846875,"end":7078.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7078.28346875,"end":7081.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7079.565968750001,"end":7080.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7081.94534375,"end":7082.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7082.232218749999,"end":7082.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7082.2997187500005,"end":7082.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7082.7215937500005,"end":7082.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7082.73846875,"end":7082.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7082.755343750001,"end":7082.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7082.82284375,"end":7083.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7083.02534375,"end":7083.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7083.43034375,"end":7083.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7084.56096875,"end":7092.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7084.61159375,"end":7084.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7092.89721875,"end":7126.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7126.967843750001,"end":7138.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7138.03784375,"end":7172.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7173.01971875,"end":7177.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7176.68159375,"end":7178.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7178.385968750001,"end":7182.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7179.499718750001,"end":7179.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7180.630343750001,"end":7184.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7185.10221875,"end":7205.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7197.99471875,"end":7199.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7203.66471875,"end":7234.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7205.95971875,"end":7206.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7209.030968750001,"end":7210.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7213.637843750001,"end":7214.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7235.59221875,"end":7267.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7262.08596875,"end":7262.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7265.88284375,"end":7270.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7271.4178437499995,"end":7272.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7271.434718750001,"end":7274.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7274.8603437500005,"end":7274.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7274.97846875,"end":7275.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7275.029093749999,"end":7275.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7275.079718750001,"end":7275.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7275.72096875,"end":7278.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7278.842843750001,"end":7279.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7280.142218750001,"end":7294.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7283.73659375,"end":7284.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7292.190968750001,"end":7294.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7294.300343750001,"end":7303.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7302.2822187500005,"end":7305.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7305.032843750001,"end":7327.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7328.185343749999,"end":7328.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7328.97846875,"end":7333.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7333.298468750001,"end":7333.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7333.956593750001,"end":7336.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7336.589093750001,"end":7340.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7340.03159375,"end":7349.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7349.667218750001,"end":7353.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7351.84409375,"end":7356.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7356.16409375,"end":7357.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7357.93596875,"end":7380.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7362.0028437500005,"end":7362.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7381.66221875,"end":7382.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7382.708468750001,"end":7390.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7389.91409375,"end":7412.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7412.8134687500005,"end":7414.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7414.484093750001,"end":7425.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7423.444718750001,"end":7436.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7437.38346875,"end":7439.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7439.96534375,"end":7443.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7441.399718750001,"end":7442.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7443.458468750001,"end":7448.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7448.03159375,"end":7463.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7463.21909375,"end":7480.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7468.669718749999,"end":7468.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7468.97346875,"end":7469.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7472.753468750001,"end":7474.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7481.0897187499995,"end":7520.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7517.40471875,"end":7518.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7519.19346875,"end":7519.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7520.91471875,"end":7522.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7523.243468750001,"end":7528.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7526.939093750001,"end":7536.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7533.99284375,"end":7534.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7536.72659375,"end":7546.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7538.17784375,"end":7538.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7543.47659375,"end":7544.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7545.9403437500005,"end":7551.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7550.5809687500005,"end":7550.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7550.59784375,"end":7551.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7551.81284375,"end":7551.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7551.829718750001,"end":7552.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7553.6522187499995,"end":7559.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7566.224093750001,"end":7566.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7572.2822187500005,"end":7573.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7574.64471875,"end":7577.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7579.3865937499995,"end":7580.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7580.061593750001,"end":7580.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7580.247218750001,"end":7581.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7581.44534375,"end":7604.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7605.01971875,"end":7608.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7609.13721875,"end":7612.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7612.309718750001,"end":7635.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7634.58471875,"end":7640.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7638.263468749999,"end":7666.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7653.737843750001,"end":7654.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7666.124093750001,"end":7704.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7671.81096875,"end":7672.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7684.38284375,"end":7684.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7688.7197187500005,"end":7688.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7704.177218750001,"end":7711.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7712.091593749999,"end":7725.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7725.15284375,"end":7752.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7728.831593750001,"end":7730.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7730.384093750001,"end":7730.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7730.755343750001,"end":7730.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7730.805968750001,"end":7730.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7734.045968750001,"end":7734.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7752.72659375,"end":7755.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7755.645968750001,"end":7757.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7759.1728437500005,"end":7767.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7764.57284375,"end":7764.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7766.952218750001,"end":7826.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7773.24659375,"end":7775.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7781.39721875,"end":7781.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7795.217843750001,"end":7796.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7826.87534375,"end":7860.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7860.692843750001,"end":7875.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7875.0028437500005,"end":7883.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7882.967843750001,"end":7885.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7884.182843750001,"end":7884.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7886.27534375,"end":7891.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7889.481593750001,"end":7889.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7891.169093750001,"end":7908.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7908.314093750001,"end":7916.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7915.452218750001,"end":7918.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7917.02159375,"end":7929.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7930.60596875,"end":7935.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7935.735968750001,"end":7938.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7940.241593750001,"end":7942.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7940.88284375,"end":7941.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7942.04721875,"end":7942.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7942.064093750001,"end":7942.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7942.0809687500005,"end":7944.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7944.05534375,"end":7956.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7955.985968750001,"end":7957.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7957.09971875,"end":7973.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7973.4178437499995,"end":8045.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7977.889718750001,"end":7978.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7986.411593750001,"end":7986.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7986.42846875,"end":7986.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7986.44534375,"end":7986.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8002.93221875,"end":8003.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8025.57846875,"end":8026.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8046.267218750001,"end":8115.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8115.30284375,"end":8118.357218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8118.407843750001,"end":8121.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8121.52971875,"end":8121.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8121.81659375,"end":8130.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8130.62534375,"end":8150.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8150.74034375,"end":8205.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8199.120968750001,"end":8201.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8206.02284375,"end":8226.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8224.551593750002,"end":8256.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8227.79159375,"end":8228.196593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8257.57596875,"end":8290.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8289.098468750002,"end":8323.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8292.524093750002,"end":8293.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8299.44284375,"end":8299.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8320.35096875,"end":8321.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8323.38846875,"end":8339.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8325.227843750003,"end":8325.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8338.42409375,"end":8339.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8341.292843750001,"end":8346.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8355.97409375,"end":8358.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8358.03284375,"end":8362.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8362.032218750002,"end":8367.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8372.07284375,"end":8372.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8372.140343750001,"end":8372.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8372.17409375,"end":8372.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8372.66346875,"end":8374.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8376.055343750002,"end":8376.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8376.44346875,"end":8376.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8376.49409375,"end":8376.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8376.81471875,"end":8377.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8377.152218750001,"end":8381.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8652.55221875,"end":8656.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8662.305968750003,"end":8663.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8664.567218750002,"end":8666.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8666.47409375,"end":8666.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8670.54096875,"end":8671.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8671.03034375,"end":8671.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8671.215968750003,"end":8704.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8705.320343750001,"end":8752.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8752.80659375,"end":8773.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8774.085968750001,"end":8810.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8808.359093750001,"end":8808.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8810.417843750001,"end":8834.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8813.168468750002,"end":8814.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8835.055343750002,"end":8847.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8848.555343750002,"end":8893.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8880.16221875,"end":8880.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8882.305343750002,"end":8882.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8883.469718750002,"end":8884.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8893.274093750002,"end":8904.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8896.379093750002,"end":8896.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8901.711593750002,"end":8902.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8904.614093750002,"end":8927.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8920.999718750001,"end":8921.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8921.03346875,"end":8921.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8921.28659375,"end":8921.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8925.87659375,"end":8926.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8927.074718750002,"end":8932.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8932.96409375,"end":8935.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8934.53346875,"end":8936.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8936.406593750002,"end":8941.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8941.722218750001,"end":8942.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8941.77284375,"end":8942.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8942.093468750001,"end":8942.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8942.734718750002,"end":8952.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8945.164718750002,"end":8945.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8945.19846875,"end":8945.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8945.24909375,"end":8945.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8945.265968750002,"end":8945.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8950.530968750001,"end":8950.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8952.960968750001,"end":8958.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8958.47909375,"end":8958.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8959.37346875,"end":8967.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8965.38096875,"end":8966.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8966.629718750002,"end":8994.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8994.827843750001,"end":9010.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9011.48346875,"end":9011.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9012.445343750001,"end":9026.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9026.046593750001,"end":9026.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9026.55284375,"end":9029.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9027.160343750002,"end":9032.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9032.08784375,"end":9043.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9042.027218750001,"end":9042.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9043.32659375,"end":9043.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9043.95096875,"end":9050.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9049.199093750001,"end":9051.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9050.66721875,"end":9056.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9055.645343750002,"end":9056.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9056.82659375,"end":9063.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9060.117218750001,"end":9060.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9063.10409375,"end":9066.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9066.10784375,"end":9084.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9071.32221875,"end":9072.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9072.520343750002,"end":9072.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9084.855968750002,"end":9085.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9085.007843750001,"end":9095.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9089.46284375,"end":9089.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9089.53034375,"end":9089.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9089.699093750001,"end":9089.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9090.492218750001,"end":9090.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9090.52596875,"end":9090.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9093.765968750002,"end":9116.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9099.38534375,"end":9100.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9102.97971875,"end":9103.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9117.171593750001,"end":9126.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9121.27221875,"end":9121.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9125.71034375,"end":9136.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9126.55409375,"end":9128.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9129.08534375,"end":9129.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9134.92409375,"end":9141.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9140.99909375,"end":9149.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9142.855343750001,"end":9143.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9145.25159375,"end":9145.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9148.812218750001,"end":9153.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9153.90846875,"end":9154.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9154.17846875,"end":9155.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9155.17409375,"end":9164.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9159.24096875,"end":9159.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9166.058468750001,"end":9176.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9176.554718750001,"end":9183.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9182.950343750003,"end":9184.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9184.03034375,"end":9185.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9185.59971875,"end":9185.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9185.954093750002,"end":9196.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9187.48971875,"end":9187.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9188.62034375,"end":9190.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9191.759093750003,"end":9192.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9194.03721875,"end":9194.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9196.602218750002,"end":9204.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9205.20846875,"end":9225.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9225.82971875,"end":9230.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9230.47034375,"end":9237.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9237.051593750002,"end":9237.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9237.524093750002,"end":9255.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9255.31034375,"end":9266.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9266.464718750001,"end":9287.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9277.804718750001,"end":9278.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9287.54159375,"end":9291.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9292.418468750002,"end":9301.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9297.29534375,"end":9297.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9301.46346875,"end":9304.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9303.488468750002,"end":9304.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9304.180343750002,"end":9304.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9304.26471875,"end":9304.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9304.652843750002,"end":9304.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9304.78784375,"end":9304.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9304.83846875,"end":9304.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9304.956593750001,"end":9306.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9306.84659375,"end":9309.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9307.25159375,"end":9311.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9309.884093750003,"end":9318.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9312.465968750003,"end":9315.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9318.81096875,"end":9331.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9320.565968750001,"end":9321.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9327.704093750002,"end":9328.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9328.952843750001,"end":9329.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9330.99471875,"end":9350.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9333.019718750002,"end":9333.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9334.875968750002,"end":9335.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9350.535968750002,"end":9366.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9364.42409375,"end":9364.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9366.027218750001,"end":9366.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9366.617843750002,"end":9366.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9366.68534375,"end":9377.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9376.86096875,"end":9383.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9380.18534375,"end":9380.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9381.92346875,"end":9386.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9385.46721875,"end":9388.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9388.926593750002,"end":9389.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9392.132843750001,"end":9394.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9395.00159375,"end":9399.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9405.49784375,"end":9407.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9408.67034375,"end":9408.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9408.97409375,"end":9410.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9413.41221875,"end":9413.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9413.969093750002,"end":9414.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9414.00284375,"end":9414.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9414.019718750002,"end":9414.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9414.593468750001,"end":9510.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9478.634093750003,"end":9479.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9511.253468750001,"end":9534.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9527.250968750002,"end":9527.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9534.827843750001,"end":9535.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9535.11471875,"end":9537.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9537.66284375,"end":9555.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9555.989093750002,"end":9566.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9566.23221875,"end":9582.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9571.328468750002,"end":9571.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9571.39596875,"end":9571.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9571.919093750003,"end":9571.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9580.187843750002,"end":9580.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9582.36471875,"end":9582.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9582.465968750003,"end":9650.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9586.97159375,"end":9587.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9588.13596875,"end":9588.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9590.97096875,"end":9591.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9604.065968750001,"end":9605.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9650.03346875,"end":9658.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9655.112843750001,"end":9656.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9657.52596875,"end":9661.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9660.090968750003,"end":9667.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9663.027218750001,"end":9664.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9664.02284375,"end":9664.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9664.22534375,"end":9664.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9667.718468750001,"end":9669.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9667.90409375,"end":9668.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9669.08534375,"end":9751.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9675.12659375,"end":9675.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9751.840343750002,"end":9751.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9751.90784375,"end":9769.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9769.238468750002,"end":9783.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9784.25721875,"end":9786.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9784.39221875,"end":9785.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9785.60721875,"end":9791.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9788.425343750001,"end":9788.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9791.09159375,"end":9818.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9800.524718750003,"end":9802.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9814.71659375,"end":9814.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9818.00721875,"end":9831.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9821.06159375,"end":9822.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9825.719093750002,"end":9826.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9826.32659375,"end":9826.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9828.95909375,"end":9829.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9829.02659375,"end":9830.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9830.106593750003,"end":9830.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9831.22034375,"end":9831.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9831.28784375,"end":9831.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9831.996593750002,"end":9837.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9837.07596875,"end":9838.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9838.223468750002,"end":9909.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9909.90846875,"end":9924.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9920.067218750002,"end":9920.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9920.759093750003,"end":9920.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9920.894093750001,"end":9921.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9922.29471875,"end":9922.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9924.437843750002,"end":9953.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9940.82346875,"end":9940.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9951.184718750003,"end":9951.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9951.960968750001,"end":9951.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9954.559718750003,"end":9980.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9977.864093750002,"end":9977.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9977.93159375,"end":9980.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9980.56409375,"end":9983.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9981.03659375,"end":9982.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9983.46659375,"end":9998.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9999.14346875,"end":9999.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10000.105343750001,"end":10041.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10030.71659375,"end":10032.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10040.504093750002,"end":10051.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10048.215968750003,"end":10048.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10049.17784375,"end":10051.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10053.160343750002,"end":10058.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10065.36096875,"end":10067.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10068.449093750001,"end":10070.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10073.511593750001,"end":10074.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10074.08534375,"end":10074.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10074.18659375,"end":10075.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10076.430968750003,"end":10081.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10081.594718750002,"end":10083.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10084.14284375,"end":10095.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10095.58409375,"end":10101.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10101.76034375,"end":10107.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10108.03784375,"end":10109.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10109.65784375,"end":10123.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10124.406593750002,"end":10125.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10125.874718750001,"end":10128.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10128.675968750002,"end":10132.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10132.48971875,"end":10153.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10153.735343750002,"end":10162.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10162.375343750002,"end":10174.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10174.609718750002,"end":10176.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10176.837218750003,"end":10182.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10182.64221875,"end":10186.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10186.995968750001,"end":10187.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10188.49784375,"end":10191.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10192.109093750001,"end":10192.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10193.020343750002,"end":10304.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10305.74534375,"end":10343.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10343.950343750003,"end":10344.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10345.587218750003,"end":10419.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10419.465968750003,"end":10421.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10421.86221875,"end":10423.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10423.11096875,"end":10424.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10425.000968750002,"end":10425.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10426.65471875,"end":10428.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10428.308468750001,"end":10454.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10455.34221875,"end":10482.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10483.01721875,"end":10503.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10504.27971875,"end":10542.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10542.45096875,"end":10543.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10543.750343750002,"end":10547.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10548.120968750001,"end":10549.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10549.808468750001,"end":10556.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10557.18284375,"end":10561.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10561.789718750002,"end":10565.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10566.49784375,"end":10607.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10608.145343750002,"end":10608.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10610.11971875,"end":10668.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10668.034718750001,"end":10668.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10668.203468750002,"end":10674.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10674.649718750003,"end":10676.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10676.25284375,"end":10677.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10677.72096875,"end":10684.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10685.01096875,"end":10711.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10688.149718750003,"end":10688.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10691.946593750003,"end":10692.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10694.309093750002,"end":10695.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10695.70971875,"end":10695.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10703.691593750002,"end":10704.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10711.184093750002,"end":10713.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10714.508468750002,"end":10714.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10714.52534375,"end":10717.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10719.65534375,"end":10722.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10727.19846875,"end":10732.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10733.35784375,"end":10736.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10739.145968750003,"end":10739.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10739.820968750002,"end":10740.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10741.06971875,"end":10841.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10841.94846875,"end":10898.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10899.289718750002,"end":10901.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10901.652218750001,"end":10942.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10915.962218750003,"end":10916.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10916.384093750003,"end":10916.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10920.36659375,"end":10920.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10943.012843750003,"end":10990.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10946.590343750002,"end":10946.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10975.497218750003,"end":10975.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10990.12784375,"end":10990.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10990.566593750002,"end":10990.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10990.634093750003,"end":10990.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10990.90409375,"end":10991.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10991.410343750002,"end":10997.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10992.43971875,"end":10992.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10993.87409375,"end":10993.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10993.97534375,"end":10994.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10994.160968750002,"end":10994.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10998.09284375,"end":10998.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10998.14346875,"end":11004.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10998.177218750003,"end":10999.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11004.606593750003,"end":11018.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11018.882843750001,"end":11026.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11026.39221875,"end":11026.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11026.442843750003,"end":11029.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11030.10471875,"end":11035.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11036.83784375,"end":11127.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11127.895343750002,"end":11142.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11133.177218750003,"end":11133.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11142.593468750001,"end":11182.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11144.027843750002,"end":11144.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11144.36534375,"end":11144.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11173.64346875,"end":11173.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11173.96409375,"end":11174.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11176.090343750002,"end":11176.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11182.722218750001,"end":11204.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11193.657218750002,"end":11193.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11194.484093750001,"end":11194.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11198.129093750002,"end":11198.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11198.145968750003,"end":11198.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11203.22534375,"end":11203.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11204.052218750003,"end":11205.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11205.28409375,"end":11211.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11208.203468750002,"end":11208.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11211.81471875,"end":11217.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11218.395968750003,"end":11220.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11219.543468750002,"end":11219.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11219.56034375,"end":11221.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11221.062218750001,"end":11222.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11222.749718750001,"end":11320.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11321.367218750001,"end":11326.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11324.82659375,"end":11325.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11327.03721875,"end":11327.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11329.484093750001,"end":11330.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11330.09159375,"end":11335.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11333.247218750003,"end":11333.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11335.47471875,"end":11335.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11335.559093750002,"end":11335.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11335.96409375,"end":11336.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11336.031593750002,"end":11337.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11336.504093750002,"end":11336.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11336.655968750001,"end":11336.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11336.74034375,"end":11336.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11339.64284375,"end":11347.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11355.589718750001,"end":11357.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11358.171593750001,"end":11359.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11362.62659375,"end":11390.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11391.077843750001,"end":11407.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11408.070968750002,"end":11410.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11411.969093750002,"end":11420.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11419.52909375,"end":11440.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11423.359718750002,"end":11423.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11423.612843750001,"end":11423.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11440.909718750001,"end":11442.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11442.968468750001,"end":11444.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11445.33096875,"end":11445.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11446.12409375,"end":11448.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11448.80721875,"end":11452.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11453.12721875,"end":11455.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11453.29596875,"end":11453.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11456.316593750002,"end":11461.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11460.34971875,"end":11463.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11464.36596875,"end":11467.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11467.555343750002,"end":11469.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11469.63096875,"end":11471.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11471.84159375,"end":11472.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11472.719093750002,"end":11476.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11477.258468750002,"end":11483.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11479.992218750001,"end":11480.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11480.19471875,"end":11480.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11483.215343750002,"end":11492.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11483.856593750003,"end":11484.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11490.083468750003,"end":11492.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11493.120968750001,"end":11496.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11495.83784375,"end":11497.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11498.11596875,"end":11503.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11503.769093750001,"end":11508.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11509.169093750003,"end":11525.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11517.589718750001,"end":11519.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11526.28034375,"end":11530.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11531.511593750001,"end":11537.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11538.07596875,"end":11540.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11540.87721875,"end":11543.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11543.965343750002,"end":11546.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11547.30659375,"end":11548.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11548.99409375,"end":11552.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11552.89221875,"end":11556.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11556.824093750001,"end":11558.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11559.405968750001,"end":11566.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11567.57346875,"end":11574.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11575.21784375,"end":11575.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11575.26846875,"end":11575.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11575.302218750003,"end":11575.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11575.31909375,"end":11577.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11575.656593750002,"end":11581.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11577.884093750003,"end":11578.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11578.54221875,"end":11579.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11580.938468750002,"end":11587.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11588.481593750003,"end":11590.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11590.87784375,"end":11597.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11597.62784375,"end":11598.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11599.382843750001,"end":11607.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11608.37721875,"end":11618.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11618.97471875,"end":11623.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11623.51409375,"end":11624.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11624.847218750001,"end":11627.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11628.171593750001,"end":11631.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11631.833468750003,"end":11635.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11635.984718750002,"end":11641.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11641.570343750001,"end":11643.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11644.624718750001,"end":11647.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11647.66221875,"end":11651.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11651.762843750003,"end":11677.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11661.837218750003,"end":11662.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11663.81159375,"end":11664.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11677.800968750002,"end":11679.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11680.855343750001,"end":11697.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11683.875968750002,"end":11683.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11683.926593750002,"end":11684.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11684.09534375,"end":11684.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11697.747218750003,"end":11739.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11703.282218750002,"end":11703.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11705.864093750002,"end":11706.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11738.68596875,"end":11748.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11748.01784375,"end":11768.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11750.042843750001,"end":11750.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11751.426593750002,"end":11752.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11752.202843750001,"end":11752.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11766.884093750003,"end":11773.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11773.144718750002,"end":11774.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11774.950343750003,"end":11779.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11779.45596875,"end":11780.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11779.60784375,"end":11779.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11780.316593750002,"end":11781.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11780.87346875,"end":11814.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11799.28409375,"end":11799.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11815.332218750002,"end":11828.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11828.612843750001,"end":11842.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11842.73721875,"end":11844.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11845.859093750001,"end":11846.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11847.175343750001,"end":11860.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11860.574093750001,"end":11862.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11863.628468750001,"end":11873.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11873.51721875,"end":11874.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11875.727843750003,"end":11876.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11876.43659375,"end":11876.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11877.567218750002,"end":11883.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11883.574718750002,"end":11884.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11884.637843750003,"end":11886.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11887.000343750002,"end":11887.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11887.590968750003,"end":11890.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11891.13471875,"end":11896.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11897.31096875,"end":11899.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11899.859093750001,"end":11908.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11905.59659375,"end":11905.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11908.80284375,"end":11933.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11925.914093750001,"end":11926.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11933.96346875,"end":11933.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11933.997218750003,"end":11937.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11937.574718750002,"end":11958.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11938.199093750001,"end":11938.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11949.74159375,"end":11951.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11959.37721875,"end":11963.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11963.730968750002,"end":11967.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11964.270968750003,"end":11964.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11966.144093750001,"end":11966.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11966.97096875,"end":11967.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11967.004718750002,"end":11967.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11969.87346875,"end":11973.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11980.21784375,"end":11980.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11980.89284375,"end":11982.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11985.06096875,"end":11988.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11988.891593750002,"end":11989.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11989.75221875,"end":11993.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11996.839718750001,"end":12006.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12007.184093750002,"end":12031.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12032.226593750001,"end":12042.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12043.17846875,"end":12054.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12058.21409375,"end":12058.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12059.05784375,"end":12059.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12059.969093750002,"end":12075.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12080.472218750001,"end":12080.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12081.383468750002,"end":12082.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12083.47596875,"end":12085.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12088.15034375,"end":12173.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12173.706593750001,"end":12196.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12196.84221875,"end":12245.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12246.184718750003,"end":12265.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12266.02971875,"end":12271.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12272.594093750002,"end":12288.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12288.827843750001,"end":12290.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12290.59971875,"end":12308.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12309.364718750003,"end":12310.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12311.153468750003,"end":12378.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12380.13846875,"end":12383.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12383.715968750003,"end":12384.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12385.234718750002,"end":12386.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12387.242843750002,"end":12388.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12389.183468750001,"end":12390.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12390.33096875,"end":12429.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12429.852218750002,"end":12431.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12431.97846875,"end":12454.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12455.063468750002,"end":12456.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12456.750968750002,"end":12459.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12460.14284375,"end":12466.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12466.94346875,"end":12468.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12468.68159375,"end":12483.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12484.24034375,"end":12486.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12487.34534375,"end":12491.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12493.825343750003,"end":12494.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12495.462218750003,"end":12495.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12495.715343750002,"end":12550.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12549.495968750001,"end":12549.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12549.968468750001,"end":12550.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12550.559093750002,"end":12550.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12550.727843750003,"end":12552.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12550.829093750002,"end":12550.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12550.96409375,"end":12551.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12553.984718750002,"end":12569.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12569.965343750002,"end":12577.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12579.668468750002,"end":12584.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12584.59596875,"end":12587.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12588.93284375,"end":12591.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12590.519093750001,"end":12590.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12591.02534375,"end":12618.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12618.81846875,"end":12622.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12622.09221875,"end":12623.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12622.699718750002,"end":12625.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12624.539093750001,"end":12625.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12625.956593750001,"end":12629.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12629.601593750001,"end":12634.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12629.80409375,"end":12629.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12629.820968750002,"end":12630.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12630.10784375,"end":12630.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12634.461593750002,"end":12634.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12635.406593750002,"end":12635.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12635.86221875,"end":12637.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12638.933468750001,"end":12646.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12646.544093750003,"end":12648.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12648.130343750003,"end":12650.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12650.50971875,"end":12657.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12658.32284375,"end":12717.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12717.58784375,"end":12726.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12726.91971875,"end":12728.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12728.640968750002,"end":12732.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12733.332218750002,"end":12735.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12736.11659375,"end":12736.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12737.078468750002,"end":12751.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12754.898468750001,"end":12756.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12755.489093750002,"end":12757.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12758.695343750001,"end":12764.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12764.36534375,"end":12768.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12769.59659375,"end":12781.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12784.058468750001,"end":12786.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12787.78784375,"end":12789.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12790.352843750003,"end":12791.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12791.972843750002,"end":12793.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12794.33534375,"end":12795.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12795.75284375,"end":12797.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12797.997218750003,"end":12800.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12800.832218750002,"end":12803.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12803.987843750001,"end":12805.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12806.046593750001,"end":12810.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12810.501593750003,"end":12816.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12816.812843750002,"end":12824.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12827.612843750001,"end":12844.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12845.517218750003,"end":12917.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12917.55659375,"end":12989.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12990.08534375,"end":13000.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12999.09659375,"end":12999.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13000.36221875,"end":13009.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13010.200343750003,"end":13037.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13038.43221875,"end":13040.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13040.423468750003,"end":13082.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13083.184718750003,"end":13100.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13100.582843750002,"end":13109.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13109.965343750002,"end":13116.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13117.255343750003,"end":13130.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13131.09284375,"end":13135.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13135.66596875,"end":13158.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13158.41346875,"end":13159.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13161.24846875,"end":13161.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13161.434093750002,"end":13161.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13161.45096875,"end":13161.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13161.906593750002,"end":13163.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13163.273468750001,"end":13164.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13165.36596875,"end":13201.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13201.96784375,"end":13202.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13203.16596875,"end":13205.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13205.528468750003,"end":13227.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13228.27596875,"end":13234.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13234.722218750001,"end":13236.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13236.71346875,"end":13242.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13242.04596875,"end":13253.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13253.571593750003,"end":13261.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13264.523468750001,"end":13265.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13265.434718750003,"end":13265.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13266.29534375,"end":13267.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13267.746593750002,"end":13268.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13269.315968750001,"end":13326.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13327.433468750001,"end":13327.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13327.450343750003,"end":13327.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13327.484093750001,"end":13330.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13327.500968750002,"end":13328.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13330.16721875,"end":13330.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13330.403468750003,"end":13330.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13330.89284375,"end":13330.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13331.280968750001,"end":13364.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13364.49096875,"end":13364.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13364.64284375,"end":13375.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13377.82221875,"end":13383.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13384.57221875,"end":13386.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13387.32284375,"end":13396.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13396.92471875,"end":13421.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13399.742843750002,"end":13399.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13421.376593750003,"end":13426.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13426.793468750002,"end":13427.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13427.417843750001,"end":13430.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13429.61159375,"end":13430.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13431.36659375,"end":13449.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13448.81534375,"end":13455.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13454.82284375,"end":13454.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13455.02534375,"end":13459.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13459.63221875,"end":13460.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13460.67846875,"end":13524.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13524.16221875,"end":13530.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13528.22909375,"end":13529.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13529.207843750002,"end":13529.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13530.49034375,"end":13530.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13530.50721875,"end":13531.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13530.945968750002,"end":13539.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13531.300343750001,"end":13531.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13534.77659375,"end":13537.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13539.99096875,"end":13542.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13542.99471875,"end":13566.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13566.636593750001,"end":13570.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13570.703468750002,"end":13602.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13603.05284375,"end":13628.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13628.41596875,"end":13637.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13638.70971875,"end":13641.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13641.274718750003,"end":13643.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13643.99159375,"end":13646.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13647.434093750002,"end":13676.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13676.94846875,"end":13677.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13677.876593750003,"end":13678.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13678.41659375,"end":13678.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13678.433468750001,"end":13680.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13680.914093750001,"end":13681.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13681.757843750001,"end":13683.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13686.65159375,"end":13710.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13710.141593750002,"end":13731.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13732.500968750002,"end":13737.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13738.187843750002,"end":13740.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13739.470343750003,"end":13739.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13740.972218750001,"end":13741.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13741.292843750001,"end":13742.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13742.59221875,"end":13764.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13764.715343750002,"end":13769.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13769.11971875,"end":13775.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13779.83534375,"end":13780.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13780.03784375,"end":13781.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13781.03346875,"end":13781.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13781.370968750001,"end":13781.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13781.590343750002,"end":13784.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13785.31971875,"end":13789.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13789.133468750002,"end":13795.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13798.49909375,"end":13804.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13805.19846875,"end":13814.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13807.223468750002,"end":13808.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13808.759093750003,"end":13809.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13817.11221875,"end":13833.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13835.590343750002,"end":13835.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13835.60721875,"end":13836.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13836.51846875,"end":13836.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13836.535343750002,"end":13836.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13836.552218750003,"end":13849.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13850.79471875,"end":13858.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13857.679718750001,"end":13859.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13860.07596875,"end":13860.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13860.09284375,"end":13860.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13860.109718750002,"end":13876.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13875.347843750002,"end":13881.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13883.312843750002,"end":13893.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13894.298468750003,"end":13895.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13895.665343750003,"end":13901.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13901.74034375,"end":13903.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13903.42784375,"end":13904.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13906.718468750001,"end":13907.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13907.410343750002,"end":14015.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14016.051593750002,"end":14032.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14032.555343750002,"end":14035.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14035.440968750001,"end":14083.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14083.534718750001,"end":14088.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14089.019093750001,"end":14108.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14108.442218750002,"end":14110.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14111.125343750002,"end":14116.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14116.57596875,"end":14126.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14127.02159375,"end":14137.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14137.956593750001,"end":14142.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14142.816593750002,"end":14151.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14151.692843750003,"end":14153.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14154.105968750002,"end":14154.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14154.13971875,"end":14154.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14154.54471875,"end":14155.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14155.92846875,"end":14180.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14158.054718750001,"end":14159.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14173.579718750003,"end":14173.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14173.59659375,"end":14173.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14173.815968750001,"end":14173.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14173.984718750002,"end":14174.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14174.001593750003,"end":14174.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14174.102843750003,"end":14174.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14179.890968750002,"end":14184.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14185.071593750003,"end":14186.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14186.20221875,"end":14189.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14189.239718750003,"end":14194.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14195.41596875,"end":14198.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14197.91346875,"end":14206.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14200.039718750002,"end":14201.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14203.00971875,"end":14204.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14204.02221875,"end":14204.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14205.18659375,"end":14206.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14206.199093750001,"end":14216.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14217.285968750002,"end":14221.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14222.26409375,"end":14236.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14236.911593750003,"end":14241.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14244.285968750002,"end":14255.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14255.035343750002,"end":14256.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14257.566593750002,"end":14258.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14258.629718750002,"end":14264.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14264.97471875,"end":14275.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14275.825343750003,"end":14278.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14278.390343750001,"end":14278.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14278.47471875,"end":14282.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14283.58784375,"end":14294.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14295.113468750002,"end":14322.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14323.345343750003,"end":14327.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14327.969093750002,"end":14331.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14331.42846875,"end":14341.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14342.363468750002,"end":14342.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14342.97096875,"end":14346.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14347.13909375,"end":14348.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14347.898468750001,"end":14348.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14349.87284375,"end":14435.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14436.42471875,"end":14466.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14459.914718750002,"end":14460.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14460.032843750003,"end":14461.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14467.035968750002,"end":14469.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14468.554718750001,"end":14470.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14469.989093750002,"end":14473.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14472.28409375,"end":14486.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14487.083468750003,"end":14487.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14487.10034375,"end":14487.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14487.77534375,"end":14494.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14494.94721875,"end":14495.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14495.976593750001,"end":14496.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14496.887843750003,"end":14496.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14496.90471875,"end":14498.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14496.921593750001,"end":14497.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14498.54159375,"end":14503.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14503.60409375,"end":14505.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14505.76409375,"end":14523.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14523.567218750002,"end":14532.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14532.527843750002,"end":14534.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14535.09284375,"end":14536.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14543.867843750002,"end":14547.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14548.204718750003,"end":14549.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14553.419093750003,"end":14553.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14553.452843750001,"end":14553.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14553.891593750002,"end":14554.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14554.110968750003,"end":14641.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14641.742843750002,"end":14644.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14644.206593750001,"end":14644.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14645.25284375,"end":14646.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14646.02909375,"end":14648.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14646.687218750001,"end":14646.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14648.222843750002,"end":14656.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14657.80784375,"end":14658.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14660.59221875,"end":14669.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14669.55284375,"end":14673.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14674.159718750001,"end":14675.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14675.914718750002,"end":14677.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14678.53034375,"end":14681.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14681.922218750002,"end":14702.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14693.312843750002,"end":14693.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14693.97096875,"end":14694.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14694.24096875,"end":14694.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14694.747218750003,"end":14694.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14700.83909375,"end":14700.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14700.87284375,"end":14704.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14702.543468750002,"end":14702.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14702.56034375,"end":14702.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14702.745968750001,"end":14702.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14702.796593750001,"end":14703.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14703.032843750003,"end":14703.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14703.52221875,"end":14703.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14703.657218750002,"end":14703.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14703.72471875,"end":14703.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14703.84284375,"end":14704.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14704.804718750001,"end":14713.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14715.250343750002,"end":14715.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14716.296593750001,"end":14721.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14720.684093750002,"end":14730.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14728.750343750002,"end":14729.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14729.594093750002,"end":14729.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14730.82596875,"end":14731.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14731.872218750003,"end":14734.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14735.399093750002,"end":14736.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14736.141593750002,"end":14737.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14736.175343750001,"end":14736.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14738.250968750002,"end":14740.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14740.883468750002,"end":14745.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14745.034718750001,"end":14747.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14747.565968750001,"end":14747.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14747.61659375,"end":14759.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14759.175968750002,"end":14759.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14759.20971875,"end":14759.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14759.564093750003,"end":14759.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14759.969093750002,"end":14761.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14761.69034375,"end":14763.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14763.917843750001,"end":14766.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14766.499718750001,"end":14769.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14767.10721875,"end":14767.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14769.06471875,"end":14773.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14771.933468750001,"end":14775.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14775.54471875,"end":14839.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14805.160343750002,"end":14805.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14813.53034375,"end":14814.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14840.41221875,"end":14842.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14840.445968750002,"end":14840.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14841.458468750003,"end":14844.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14842.977218750002,"end":14843.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14845.49159375,"end":14848.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14845.74471875,"end":14846.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14847.26346875,"end":14867.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14869.082843750002,"end":14869.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14869.09971875,"end":14869.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14870.129093750002,"end":14873.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14874.65159375,"end":14877.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14876.980343750001,"end":14880.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14879.71409375,"end":14883.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14883.173468750003,"end":14892.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14883.71346875,"end":14884.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14885.13096875,"end":14886.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14891.62784375,"end":14898.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14895.99846875,"end":14902.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14902.815968750001,"end":14911.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14913.008468750002,"end":14913.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14914.274093750002,"end":14916.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14916.46784375,"end":14917.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14916.585968750001,"end":14918.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14918.77971875,"end":14921.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14921.024093750002,"end":14923.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14923.015343750001,"end":14928.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14927.723468750002,"end":14930.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14931.047843750002,"end":14936.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14931.149093750002,"end":14931.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14936.751593750003,"end":14938.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14937.645968750003,"end":14973.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14940.04221875,"end":14941.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14942.759093750003,"end":14942.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14942.809718750003,"end":14942.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14953.390343750001,"end":14954.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14954.048468750003,"end":14954.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14954.26784375,"end":14954.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14960.832218750002,"end":14960.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14960.91659375,"end":14961.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14961.726593750001,"end":14961.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14964.86534375,"end":14964.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14964.88221875,"end":14965.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14965.28721875,"end":14965.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14973.606593750003,"end":14975.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14974.956593750001,"end":14975.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14975.31096875,"end":14982.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14980.00221875,"end":14981.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14981.301593750002,"end":14981.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14983.883468750002,"end":14984.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14985.047843750002,"end":14985.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14985.992843750002,"end":15048.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15046.489718750003,"end":15058.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15057.47534375,"end":15068.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15068.96721875,"end":15083.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15069.726593750001,"end":15069.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15082.484093750001,"end":15110.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15083.969093750002,"end":15084.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15085.437218750001,"end":15085.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15110.83409375,"end":15139.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15120.65534375,"end":15121.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15125.92034375,"end":15125.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15136.41659375,"end":15137.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15138.441593750002,"end":15138.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15139.673468750003,"end":15172.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15171.027218750001,"end":15172.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15172.815968750001,"end":15174.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15173.96346875,"end":15204.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15178.45221875,"end":15178.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15204.70971875,"end":15206.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15205.45221875,"end":15215.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15216.657218750002,"end":15217.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15217.26471875,"end":15217.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15217.332218750002,"end":15217.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15217.399718750003,"end":15225.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15224.504093750002,"end":15234.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15234.93284375,"end":15239.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15234.98346875,"end":15235.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15237.599093750003,"end":15238.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15239.08409375,"end":15241.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15241.024718750003,"end":15241.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15241.26096875,"end":15241.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15241.328468750002,"end":15241.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15241.345343750003,"end":15244.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15244.31534375,"end":15245.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15244.332218750002,"end":15245.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15245.867843750002,"end":15245.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15247.032218750002,"end":15263.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15268.919093750003,"end":15270.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15271.821593750003,"end":15273.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15277.59284375,"end":15278.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15280.27596875,"end":15280.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15280.292843750001,"end":15281.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15281.727218750002,"end":15281.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15281.74409375,"end":15282.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15283.515968750002,"end":15285.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15285.55784375,"end":15287.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15288.004718750002,"end":15290.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15292.695968750002,"end":15296.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15297.809093750002,"end":15298.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15299.20971875,"end":15299.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15300.340343750002,"end":15305.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15305.605343750001,"end":15307.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15307.765343750001,"end":15309.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15311.309093750002,"end":15313.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15313.485968750003,"end":15315.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15316.489718750003,"end":15320.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15321.61971875,"end":15322.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15324.269093750001,"end":15327.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15327.72846875,"end":15330.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15331.137218750002,"end":15332.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15333.11159375,"end":15334.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15338.81534375,"end":15341.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15342.730343750001,"end":15345.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15345.93659375,"end":15348.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15349.007843750001,"end":15350.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15353.10846875,"end":15355.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15356.922218750002,"end":15366.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15367.92471875,"end":15368.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15369.13971875,"end":15371.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15372.548468750003,"end":15373.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15374.016593750002,"end":15375.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15376.969718750002,"end":15377.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15378.809093750002,"end":15379.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15380.73284375,"end":15382.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15382.79159375,"end":15383.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15384.968468750001,"end":15388.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15388.86659375,"end":15390.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15392.44409375,"end":15394.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15395.009093750003,"end":15398.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15398.839718750001,"end":15410.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15402.164093750001,"end":15402.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15402.687218750001,"end":15402.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15410.230343750001,"end":15414.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15414.22971875,"end":15420.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15420.034718750001,"end":15422.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15423.696593750003,"end":15425.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15426.126593750003,"end":15428.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15429.535343750002,"end":15432.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15433.88909375,"end":15438.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15438.614093750002,"end":15440.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15440.36909375,"end":15445.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15446.59596875,"end":15447.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15449.29596875,"end":15451.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15452.02971875,"end":15453.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15453.81846875,"end":15454.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15456.029093750003,"end":15456.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15457.73346875,"end":15459.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15459.825968750003,"end":15461.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15462.20534375,"end":15463.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15464.145968750003,"end":15470.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15471.317843750003,"end":15473.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15474.49034375,"end":15476.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15477.578468750002,"end":15479.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15480.210968750001,"end":15481.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15482.016593750002,"end":15483.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15485.965343750002,"end":15487.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15488.024093750002,"end":15489.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15489.559718750003,"end":15491.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15492.141593750002,"end":15493.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15493.89659375,"end":15495.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15496.74846875,"end":15497.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15498.925343750001,"end":15500.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15500.781593750002,"end":15503.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15504.46034375,"end":15508.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15508.03784375,"end":15508.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15509.99534375,"end":15510.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15510.012218750002,"end":15510.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15511.227218750002,"end":15516.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15515.074718750002,"end":15515.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15515.125343750002,"end":15516.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15516.30659375,"end":15516.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15516.509093750003,"end":15516.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15516.542843750001,"end":15516.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15516.559718750003,"end":15516.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15516.72846875,"end":15517.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15516.79596875,"end":15520.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15521.36909375,"end":15533.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15533.367218750001,"end":15533.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15533.62034375,"end":15541.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15541.298468750003,"end":15543.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15544.09971875,"end":15544.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15544.26846875,"end":15545.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15546.42846875,"end":15557.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15557.65034375,"end":15557.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15557.835968750001,"end":15559.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15558.91596875,"end":15561.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15562.577843750001,"end":15565.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15566.374718750001,"end":15566.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15568.652843750002,"end":15573.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15573.968468750001,"end":15577.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15578.69346875,"end":15582.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15583.064093750003,"end":15584.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15585.831593750001,"end":15592.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15593.25659375,"end":15596.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15596.445968750002,"end":15597.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15598.84221875,"end":15602.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15604.27596875,"end":15605.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15606.95909375,"end":15609.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15609.456593750001,"end":15610.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15611.65034375,"end":15612.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15614.13096875,"end":15614.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15614.14784375,"end":15615.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15616.577843750001,"end":15620.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15620.965343750002,"end":15621.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15622.78784375,"end":15623.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15624.509093750003,"end":15625.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15627.00659375,"end":15628.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15629.183468750001,"end":15635.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15637.570343750001,"end":15638.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15640.270343750002,"end":15643.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15645.04596875,"end":15646.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15646.952843750001,"end":15649.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15650.699093750001,"end":15652.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15655.96409375,"end":15658.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15660.38534375,"end":15663.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15664.55346875,"end":15666.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15667.742843750002,"end":15670.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15670.442843750003,"end":15671.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15672.501593750003,"end":15675.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15675.910343750002,"end":15679.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15680.466593750003,"end":15690.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15690.945968750002,"end":15691.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15692.59971875,"end":15693.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15693.257843750001,"end":15694.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15694.962218750003,"end":15695.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15695.333468750003,"end":15699.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15699.805343750002,"end":15702.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15700.851593750001,"end":15701.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15701.813468750002,"end":15701.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15703.19721875,"end":15705.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15706.53846875,"end":15706.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15706.74096875,"end":15706.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15706.774718750003,"end":15718.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15718.08096875,"end":15720.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15720.645968750003,"end":15722.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15723.126593750003,"end":15726.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15727.058468750001,"end":15729.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15730.500968750002,"end":15733.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15733.99409375,"end":15735.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15736.27221875,"end":15737.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15740.001593750003,"end":15741.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15742.785968750002,"end":15745.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15746.49846875,"end":15751.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15752.40471875,"end":15754.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15756.454718750003,"end":15758.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15759.340343750002,"end":15760.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15761.466593750003,"end":15762.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15763.10346875,"end":15765.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15766.157843750003,"end":15767.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15768.01409375,"end":15768.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15769.81971875,"end":15771.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15773.160968750002,"end":15785.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15787.757843750001,"end":15787.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15787.774718750003,"end":15787.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15787.875968750002,"end":15787.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15787.977218750002,"end":15788.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15789.445343750001,"end":15804.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15789.64784375,"end":15789.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15789.968468750001,"end":15790.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15805.274093750002,"end":15806.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15806.03346875,"end":15806.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15806.759093750003,"end":15807.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15808.63221875,"end":15809.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15810.640343750001,"end":15811.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15811.349093750003,"end":15811.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15811.83846875,"end":15814.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15814.99409375,"end":15816.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15816.495968750001,"end":15818.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15819.347843750002,"end":15821.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15822.030968750001,"end":15824.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15824.86596875,"end":15829.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15830.55284375,"end":15831.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15831.312218750001,"end":15833.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15833.438468750002,"end":15835.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15836.965343750002,"end":15838.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15840.32346875,"end":15841.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15843.52971875,"end":15844.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15845.841593750003,"end":15855.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15856.152218750001,"end":15857.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15857.890343750001,"end":15860.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15860.387843750003,"end":15865.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15869.21346875,"end":15871.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15872.031593750002,"end":15873.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15875.32221875,"end":15879.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15880.33409375,"end":15881.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15882.899093750002,"end":15883.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15884.265968750002,"end":15886.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15887.219093750002,"end":15890.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15891.488468750002,"end":15900.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15900.48284375,"end":15903.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15905.039093750001,"end":15906.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15908.093468750001,"end":15911.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15911.957843750002,"end":15914.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15916.294718750003,"end":15918.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15919.112843750001,"end":15920.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15921.357218750003,"end":15922.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15925.508468750002,"end":15926.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15926.841593750003,"end":15928.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15928.86659375,"end":15929.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15930.250343750002,"end":15932.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15932.950343750003,"end":15934.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15935.414093750001,"end":15936.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15936.966593750003,"end":15940.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15940.72971875,"end":15943.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15943.61534375,"end":15945.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15945.67409375,"end":15947.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15948.070343750001,"end":15949.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15949.909718750001,"end":15950.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15951.58034375,"end":15954.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15955.208468750003,"end":15961.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15962.110343750002,"end":15965.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15965.114093750002,"end":15967.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15968.657843750003,"end":15974.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15976.11659375,"end":15977.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15978.597218750001,"end":15979.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15979.84596875,"end":15982.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15983.777843750002,"end":15985.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15986.258468750002,"end":15987.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15988.739093750002,"end":15991.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15992.637218750002,"end":15995.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15995.97846875,"end":15999.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16000.19721875,"end":16002.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16003.16721875,"end":16006.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16006.79534375,"end":16011.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16012.80284375,"end":16014.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16015.28346875,"end":16016.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16016.785343750002,"end":16017.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16017.595343750003,"end":16023.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16024.767218750003,"end":16026.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16026.977843750003,"end":16035.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16035.617843750002,"end":16036.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16035.837218750003,"end":16035.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16035.95534375,"end":16037.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16037.929718750001,"end":16041.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16041.70971875,"end":16046.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16047.160343750002,"end":16054.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16048.594718750002,"end":16048.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16048.61159375,"end":16048.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16048.88159375,"end":16048.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16048.949093750001,"end":16048.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16051.277843750002,"end":16052.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16054.973468750002,"end":16055.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16056.171593750001,"end":16056.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16056.964718750001,"end":16074.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16068.473468750002,"end":16068.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16071.966593750003,"end":16073.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16074.312218750001,"end":16076.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16076.99534375,"end":16082.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16082.969093750002,"end":16092.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16092.672218750002,"end":16095.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16093.43159375,"end":16093.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16095.18659375,"end":16098.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16099.017218750003,"end":16099.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16099.050968750002,"end":16099.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16099.101593750001,"end":16099.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16099.489718750003,"end":16099.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16099.60784375,"end":16100.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16099.641593750002,"end":16107.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16102.40909375,"end":16103.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16103.472218750001,"end":16103.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16103.539718750002,"end":16103.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16108.652843750002,"end":16110.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16111.42034375,"end":16120.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16113.175343750001,"end":16114.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16115.74034375,"end":16116.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16116.027218750001,"end":16116.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16121.055968750003,"end":16134.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16134.032843750003,"end":16134.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16134.690968750001,"end":16134.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16134.876593750003,"end":16135.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16135.062218750001,"end":16135.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16136.665343750003,"end":16143.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16145.085968750001,"end":16150.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16146.80721875,"end":16147.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16147.532843750003,"end":16149.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16149.355343750001,"end":16149.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16151.414093750001,"end":16152.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16154.114093750002,"end":16155.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16156.71284375,"end":16157.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16158.079718750003,"end":16161.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16162.09596875,"end":16165.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16166.922218750002,"end":16169.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16169.79096875,"end":16170.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16171.47846875,"end":16174.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16174.97159375,"end":16175.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16177.80659375,"end":16178.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16179.629093750002,"end":16181.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16182.008468750002,"end":16182.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16182.93659375,"end":16187.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16188.235343750002,"end":16189.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16190.395343750002,"end":16192.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16194.512843750003,"end":16196.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16196.942843750003,"end":16205.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16206.477218750002,"end":16208.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16211.235968750003,"end":16227.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16217.41221875,"end":16218.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16228.43159375,"end":16229.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16229.91659375,"end":16230.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16231.013468750003,"end":16232.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16233.98346875,"end":16238.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16238.99534375,"end":16239.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16239.029093750003,"end":16240.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16241.543468750002,"end":16246.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16247.179718750001,"end":16249.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16250.01471875,"end":16257.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16258.28346875,"end":16262.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16264.40909375,"end":16264.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16264.425968750002,"end":16265.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16266.09659375,"end":16267.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16268.374718750001,"end":16278.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16278.027218750001,"end":16281.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16281.55409375,"end":16281.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16281.85784375,"end":16285.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16285.739093750002,"end":16291.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16291.03784375,"end":16291.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16291.78034375,"end":16291.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16291.797218750002,"end":16291.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16291.814093750003,"end":16291.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16291.847843750002,"end":16291.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16292.168468750002,"end":16296.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16296.977843750003,"end":16297.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16297.028468750003,"end":16299.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16299.72846875,"end":16300.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16299.930968750003,"end":16309.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16300.065968750001,"end":16300.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16311.321593750003,"end":16316.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16313.633468750002,"end":16313.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16313.751593750003,"end":16314.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16314.03846875,"end":16316.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16317.261593750001,"end":16317.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16317.953468750002,"end":16325.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16325.074718750002,"end":16325.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16325.800343750001,"end":16325.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16325.935343750003,"end":16327.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16327.977218750002,"end":16328.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16329.20909375,"end":16337.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16338.844718750002,"end":16345.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16345.814093750003,"end":16346.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16346.792843750001,"end":16348.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16349.492843750002,"end":16350.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16350.94409375,"end":16352.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16353.47534375,"end":16355.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16355.466593750003,"end":16358.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16358.605343750001,"end":16360.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16361.085968750001,"end":16362.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16362.95909375,"end":16366.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16366.60409375,"end":16368.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16368.899093750002,"end":16370.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16371.008468750002,"end":16377.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16377.04971875,"end":16377.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16377.809093750002,"end":16377.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16379.074718750002,"end":16391.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16391.967218750004,"end":16399.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16399.81409375,"end":16401.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16403.172218749998,"end":16409.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16405.349093750003,"end":16406.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16410.24284375,"end":16413.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16414.15784375,"end":16417.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16418.039093749998,"end":16419.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16420.654718750004,"end":16423.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16424.130968750003,"end":16428.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16428.974093750003,"end":16429.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16429.02471875,"end":16440.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16439.89221875,"end":16440.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16440.34784375,"end":16440.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16440.97221875,"end":16441.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16441.022843749997,"end":16441.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16441.71471875,"end":16441.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16441.866593749997,"end":16445.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16444.65096875,"end":16445.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16445.93346875,"end":16448.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16448.21159375,"end":16457.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16449.983468749997,"end":16450.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16454.86034375,"end":16456.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16456.294718750003,"end":16456.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16457.340968750003,"end":16469.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16469.187218749998,"end":16469.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16469.23784375,"end":16469.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16469.84534375,"end":16470.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16470.030968749998,"end":16471.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16471.701593750004,"end":16475.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16476.240968750004,"end":16490.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16478.82284375,"end":16479.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16490.989718750003,"end":16496.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16496.62596875,"end":16499.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16500.490343750003,"end":16502.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16503.05534375,"end":16505.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16506.835343749997,"end":16512.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16512.809093750002,"end":16514.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16514.56409375,"end":16514.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16514.88471875,"end":16514.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16514.90159375,"end":16517.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16517.97284375,"end":16518.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16518.023468749998,"end":16528.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16529.36346875,"end":16529.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16529.97096875,"end":16531.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16532.51909375,"end":16536.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16537.075343750003,"end":16551.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16551.72284375,"end":16552.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16552.56659375,"end":16553.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16553.849093750003,"end":16554.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16555.469093749998,"end":16557.882218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16557.966593750003,"end":16558.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16558.084718750004,"end":16559.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16564.04159375,"end":16607.61284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1807.98,"end":1835.706,"text":"報告委員會出席委員14人已足法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會起交一級文化委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國14年5月28日上午9時1分至下午2時6分地點本院區選樓101會議室出席委員柯志文委員等15人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等20人"},{"start":1836.866,"end":1859.105,"text":"列席人員 教育部部長鄭英耀 率同有關人員 主席柯 葛昭及委員如均報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄 決定議事錄確定二 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍書面報告案22案討論事項 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍專案報告案11案"},{"start":1861.994,"end":1888.719,"text":"本次議程採綜合詢答由委員柯志恩等18人提出質詢軍警教育部部長鄭英耀及相關人員及其答覆說明另由委員外媒領謝龍介翁曉琳提出書面質詢決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三 對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆四"},{"start":1890.059,"end":1918.121,"text":"114年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案33案審查完略均准以動之提報宴會宣讀完畢因為我們在場委員未達一決人數三人我們醫事錄暫不確定今天的議程我們處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案22案"},{"start":1920.319,"end":1934.46,"text":"那我們介紹在場官員國家科學及技術委員會主委兼國家太空中心董事長吳承文吳主委那國科會副主委陳彬宇陳副主委謝謝"},{"start":1936.854,"end":1955.226,"text":"那國科會副主委兼國家災害防救科技中心董事長蘇政剛蘇副主委謝謝那也謝謝國科會的各個機關單位共同列席然後我們這個火箭大叔這個吳主任好像是不是也在謝謝這個"},{"start":1959.612,"end":1986.766,"text":"這個太空現在很重要啦這個所以特別謝謝列席我們也希望一起來支持那我們台美之間也有很多跟太空有關的這個合作希望一起進行下去那還有這個國研院還有這個國家同步輻射研究中心災害防禦中心還有這個相關的機關單位謝謝那還有行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員黃子涵黃專委謝謝"},{"start":1993.049,"end":2012.991,"text":"好那我們現在也介紹在場委員武力華委員好謝謝好那我們現在處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算解凍書面報告案暨時期案請宣讀"},{"start":2015.39,"end":2034.019,"text":"一 國家科學及技術委員會函為國家太空中心一四年度預算決議減送決議一支出預算凍結五百萬元順便報告請查詐案二 國家科學及技術委員會函為國家災害防救科技中心一四年度預算決議減送決議一支出預算凍結兩百萬元順便報告請查詐案"},{"start":2037.921,"end":2059.021,"text":"三 國家科學集計事務委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會第一幕一般行政預算凍結5%書面報告請查詐案四 國家科學集計事務委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會第二幕國家災害防救科技中心發展計畫預算凍結200萬元書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2061.764,"end":2070.655,"text":"五 國家科學集體事務委員會 涵衛一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢証該會第三幕國家太空中心發展計畫預算凍結兩千萬元書面報告 請查詐案"},{"start":2074.113,"end":2098.592,"text":"六 國家科學及技術委員會函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會第四幕財團法人國家實驗研究院發展計畫預算凍結五千萬元書面報告請查詐案七 國家科學及技術委員會函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會第五幕財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計畫預算凍結三百萬元書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2100.714,"end":2124.75,"text":"八 國家科學及技術委員會函 未依四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會第六幕會營業特種基金預算凍結五千萬元書面報告請查詐案九 國家科學及技術委員會函 未依四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送新竹科學園區管理局大陸地區旅費預算凍結二十八萬元書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2126.917,"end":2149.461,"text":"十 國家科學及技術委員會函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送新竹科學園區管理局第一幕園區實驗中學教學與訓輔輔助預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案國家科學及技術委員會函 為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送新竹科學園區管理局第四幕園區業務發展預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2153.402,"end":2177.98,"text":"十二 國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送中部科學園區管理局大陸地區旅會預算凍結二十二萬八千元書面報告請查詐案十三 國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送中部科學園區管理局第一幕園區實驗中學教學及訓輔輔助預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2178.786,"end":2205.596,"text":"十四 國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送中部科學園區管理局第四幕園區業務發展預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案十五 國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送南部科學園區管理局大陸地區旅會凍結十萬七千元書面報告請查詐案十六 國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議"},{"start":2206.876,"end":2225.722,"text":"檢送南部科學園區管理局第一幕園區實驗中學教學與訓輔輔助預算凍結100萬年書面報告請查詐案17 國家科學及技術委員會函為14年度中央政府總預算決議檢送南部科學園區管理局第4幕園區業務推展預算凍結100萬年書面報告請查詐案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2230.899,"end":2254.619,"text":"好謝謝那我們現在委員人數已達三位以上那想請問各位委員關於上一次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有的話我們議事錄就確認那也關於這個預算解凍的書面報告案共17案剛才宣讀完畢在場委員有無意見"},{"start":2257.666,"end":2286.152,"text":"那我想我們剛剛的這17案也都可以看到我們委員會其實是非常支持我們的國客會相關的這個凍結也都這個數字也都有充分的討論那金額也都在一個還可以討論的範圍之內那待會也許我們還是有委員會針對幾個議題還會在質詢的過程當中提出討論但是這17案我們目前的委員是沒有提出意見"},{"start":2286.852,"end":2310.224,"text":"那所以我想我們就決定均準與動之提報院會那我們現在請國科會吳主委進行報告時間八分鐘主席各位委員先進大家好成門大院安排解凍報告"},{"start":2311.787,"end":2332.182,"text":"很榮幸列席貴委員會說明,感謝各位委員支持我國科技發展,讓國科會業務能順利推動。科技產業為台灣對外貿易的核心,國科會積極引導發展前瞻科技,促成研發成果的落地應用。"},{"start":2333.68,"end":2348.38,"text":"推动百工百业创新转型并配合政府整体战略于变局中寻找解方仅就当前科技施政说明如后首先布局前瞻科技强化科技国力"},{"start":2350.384,"end":2370.739,"text":"114年到117年,国家科学技术发展计划已经提报行政院作为引领科技创新,跨部会推动国家希望工程的中长程方向,其中就据战略价值的半导体领域提倡优势延续,国际拓展。"},{"start":2371.966,"end":2393.161,"text":"應用創新永續調適的國家政策在太空領域國家發射場域位置已選定於屏東縣滿洲鄉未來將導入原民科技教育及觀光元素與地方共融共好同時AI新科技智慧機器人計畫"},{"start":2394.687,"end":2408.285,"text":"已獲行政院院會通過,後續將跨部會擬定智慧機器人產業推動方案,並扣合大南方新氣股政策,帶動智慧機器人研發、製造及新創等產業發展。"},{"start":2410.472,"end":2437.813,"text":"第二,鼓勵學員與實務接軌,培育重點領域人才,全力營造自由的研發環境,積極鼓勵學員落實應用導向的研究,將成果貢獻社會,同時透過多元場合與各領域學者進行理念宣導,並致力調整計畫審查思維,引導科研成果落地應用。"},{"start":2439.028,"end":2456.667,"text":"人才扎根与培育是国家长期发展的关键。国科会持续厚职AI及资安等领域人才,例如今年的寻找资安女爵师,共有4000多位女同学参赛,展现出在AI、机器人、数学等跨领域的创意。"},{"start":2457.728,"end":2472.52,"text":"此外,掌握全球局勢,適時調整國際合作策略,加速落實與美、德、法及加拿大等雙邊協定,強化在重點領域的合作,並持續推動官方高層互訪,發揮台灣科研國際影響力。"},{"start":2476.443,"end":2499.857,"text":"第三,創造科研社會價值,邁向創新與均衡的台灣在運動科技、智慧醫療、高齡長照等領域已有具體成果,並逐步推展至產業應用在創新創業方面,積極導入優秀AI新創及資金來台以業界需求引導技術媒合,帶動產業升級"},{"start":2503.242,"end":2527.671,"text":"2024年科學園區營業額也達到了4.7兆元的新高峰精進技術及亮眼產能已成為全球高科技聚落的典範此外,支持台積電等半導體供應鏈廠商進駐屏東科學園區將先進技術跟流台灣落實到南方新矽谷逐步實現均衡台灣願景"},{"start":2529.434,"end":2545.206,"text":"第四,解冻案部分,114年国科会预算冻结案共计22案包含书面报告17案及专案报告5案,完整报告资料已函送大院以下警卫委员关心重点报告。"},{"start":2546.311,"end":2562.701,"text":"一般行政商案本會以增訂計畫主持人違反性平法規之查組規範,並與教育部會商通報機制,同時完成職場霸凌申訴機制,並辦理教育訓練。此外,勞務承攬費依規定編列,辦公設備則依使用狀況逐年開放。"},{"start":2567.854,"end":2586.514,"text":"國家災害防救科技中心兩岸災防中心重整各項災害情資落實相關情資的研判與應用協助中央與地方共同推動防災、減災、應變與復原重建等工作國家太空中心兩岸"},{"start":2587.813,"end":2604.36,"text":"太空計畫三期已完成修正將持續推動入軌火箭、低軌通訊衛星以及國家發射場域建置以壯大我國太空產業與培育人才國家實驗研究院發展計畫一案"},{"start":2605.66,"end":2634.689,"text":"国研院持续精进人才延展与留任建立反霸凌与性别平等的职场环境国家同步辐射研究中心发展计划一案国府中心将加速TPS及其光速线设施建置并链接国际官员盟友强化我国研发环境与竞争优势科发基金一案本会推动技专校院实务型研究专案计划"},{"start":2635.748,"end":2652.063,"text":"整合跨領域資源至今年度起納入私立大學鼓勵其發展應用與實務研究同時持續推動運動科技與人文結合督促執行機構確實遵守人體研究法和相關規範確保研究計畫妥善執行"},{"start":2655.973,"end":2675.519,"text":"足中南科管理局共計十二案,其中業務費共三案作為支應基本行政作業,提供單一窗口服務,推動人才培育,促進勞資關係,強化治安及污染防治等支出,相關預算均遵截編列。"},{"start":2676.619,"end":2682.706,"text":"大陸地區旅費共商案,用於參與世界科學園區學會,該學會有78個國家,近350個會員,透過交流學習他國園區治理經驗,同時展現台灣科學園區軟實力。"},{"start":2694.86,"end":2718.773,"text":"園區時鐘教學與訓輔共商案將持續檢討招生策略推展教學計畫保障學生受教權益園區業務推展共商案以強化投資環境加速園區擴建進度提升溫室氣體減量成效精進管理費查核提供園區從業人員優質就業環境"},{"start":2721.835,"end":2730.425,"text":"以上相關經費均為推動我國科技發展提升國家競爭力敬請委員鼎力支持同意動資預算謝謝"},{"start":2737.552,"end":2747.464,"text":"好 謝謝吳主委口頭報告我們現在進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為10點30分"},{"start":2753.271,"end":2776.171,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10點30分以前提出並於本會委員葉元之委員質詢結束以後進行解凍專案報告案及臨時提案處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位柯志恩委員質詢"},{"start":2782.338,"end":2782.638,"text":"郭文贵先生"},{"start":2804.629,"end":2831.913,"text":"就是当初国科会也针对这个部分呢也做出了一些的说明所以我现在要问你你应该的说法也是一样那我们现在来看一下这个江博士说实在他是博士没有错他只是在这个博士的这个专业这个major的部分里面大家其实有不同的一个看法我们来看下一个其实你调出这个国科会的个人人才的这个资料表当中其实他跟国科会的相会其实不太多大概只有他当新晋人"},{"start":2832.213,"end":2860.356,"text":"人员研究的时候有获得因为我们通常只看计划主持人因为计划主持人最重要共同主持人通常有时候是挂了好多人但是以计划主持人来说他其他两个都是申请你们的学术会议这不算所以以计划来说的话他当初学门代表是用民事法这是他目前为止跟国科会也是在法的这个层面当中是比较有关的但是呢之后他确实用这个这个我们确实用这个"},{"start":2860.996,"end":2881.233,"text":"大学里面呢他确实是PhD in Law这个部分而且呢他在你看他是2014年获得国客会这个一项补助就这么久了就获得这么一项补助以法的观点来看然后在2022年经过大概经过了八年的时间有人在跟国客会来做一个检举表示呢这八年来"},{"start":2881.874,"end":2910.064,"text":"他所看载的这个所谓的学门专门的这个部分里面来说是引起很大的质疑的所以也来看我们来看下面所以说呢这个刘静怡的这个当时的法律的召委他当然就会提出质疑而且他们是七人全诉通过要送学轮但是学轮呢大概有一票之差然后呢就没有所以说呢为什么这两个差距这么大我想主委就你的理解到底是为什么两个单位为什么对于这样的一个认定差距这么大"},{"start":2912.663,"end":2935.035,"text":"報告委員這件案子我其實並不清楚當時的細節但是就同仁跟我報告的資料當初他是在國科會在申請計畫的時候他寫了自己的資料就好像說所有人都會有填自己的履歷沒錯履歷他怎麼填"},{"start":2936.395,"end":2963.286,"text":"我们也很奇怪明明是这样子社会科学院毕业的为什么硬要说自己是法学院这个部分其实也是目前为止大家认为在integrity这个部分里面是受到很大的质疑而且是国科会去函希望能够把他这个部分匡正完之后他才做修正这经过时间经过非常长的时间所以我说不是博士学问的问题而是他的integrity的问题那这个问题其实你说大其实也很大"},{"start":2963.686,"end":2963.987,"text":"因为这个细节"},{"start":2976.931,"end":2988.698,"text":"我並不是很清楚,但是我知道當初的確有進到學術輪那學輪會告訴你,因為他有念過法,所以他可以寫法學這也沒什麼不好啊,你贊同這樣的說法嗎?有進到學術輪理委員會討論,那討論就是依照程序討論完大家委員,委員就是要去表決那時候委員認為有瑕疵,但是還不至於到"},{"start":3000.725,"end":3021.141,"text":"所以你还是能够重复这个学者说我觉得这就是integrative问题这是一个观感的问题我们没有质疑他的博士学位但是对于他是号称自己是法学博士其实而且这么久以来如果没有被纠正的话其实他就会用这样的学位一直到底这也就是大家会认为你看全部都是用法学博士这样的概念"},{"start":3022.001,"end":3043.129,"text":"問題是所以當初我們的確有要求他一定要要求做匡證可是你看看你們國科會的網站我們回到第一頁你國科會的網站我還是要糾正一下啊部長你們國科會只要就媒體的報導你們做出說明就好你大可不用在你們網站裡面對於他自己個人的說法認為科技部判定他還他公道這句話不用登在你們的網站當中這是他個人的說法這一副"},{"start":3043.749,"end":3063.755,"text":"要是我來說,國科會要求我去框證,我不覺得這還我公道,我覺得我有疏失,我怎麼可能說是公道所以你就爭據國科網站,爭據你們的說明,做好說明就好,不用框上這個所謂的利益關係人自己的說法我覺得這是未來給國科會的一個說法,並沒有還他公道,國科會只是做出你們該有的一個解釋而已"},{"start":3064.395,"end":3088.489,"text":"我们应该就是照实解释就好本来就是嘛而且我也不能理解他的动机到底在哪里我觉得当时一个社科院的博士也蛮好的为什么一直要说自己是法学博士法学博士难道会比社科博士来的地位高一点吗这我们完全不可以我想在场很多人的儿子特别是学社会科学学门的部分不过这绝对是一个瑕疵以至于当他被派人的时候很多人所以主委你也不赞成"},{"start":3089.289,"end":3113.492,"text":"學位裡面你不是學位該怎麼樣就該怎麼樣你也不贊成去框一個不是屬於他的這個學碗這也是無庸置疑的吧不過我們現在在國科會各個學門的計畫申請不見得都是原學門的教授因為現在很多跨領域的研究我們也希望能夠框一個專業學門你可以看我自己的我就框一個對我自己有利的這是我的好不好"},{"start":3113.752,"end":3132.208,"text":"我也拿到国科会非常多的计划从到教育学门科学教育师范教育等等但是我们会框个对我们有利的一个学门嘛对但是不应该你拿到一个国科会当初你自己的一个部分你就框成自己是一个法律博士我觉得这个东西对大部分来说这是真的是有违反学术理念这个层面"},{"start":3132.568,"end":3148.791,"text":"好那接下来我们要把事情把它理定清楚我们来看看你们的基本的这个费用来说你们基本行政的特别费当中你们是被冻结了一七一百一十九万嘛对不对一百一十七万九但是呢组委我还是要特别澄清一下"},{"start":3149.822,"end":3165.758,"text":"凍結的部分國科會整體來講有1億8千萬喔我知道但是我要你的說法你說因為財化法的關係照比例調整你們被減了200億這不是因為財化法是另外一回事我說今年我們被凍結的部分"},{"start":3166.198,"end":3172.606,"text":"我知道 可是你的發言是在這裡啊 我是問你新聞的說法你真的是國科會有被裁劃法的方法 你們真的有被影響嗎這大標題寫在這個地方啊裁劃法還沒有明年才上路行政院目前解釋那你幹嘛去跟人家講說因為這個關係你們受到200億的影響我想只問今年嘛 今年有受到影響嗎"},{"start":3186.002,"end":3193.108,"text":"當時媒體問的是財化法的影響當然這是明年如果財化法修正案你這邊是寫國科會111年度的預算210受到影響不利台灣科學發展主委 說話必須要憑證據我說話我不是講今年我絕對沒有講財化法修正案會影響今年那你就去公正一下你這邊寫國科會114年的預算好不好你這邊是你們的預算你的發布日期是這樣寫的"},{"start":3212.99,"end":3222.702,"text":"是明年啦那你就寫錯了嘛你要不要更正一下明年會不會受到影響我們也不知道你這樣完全就是被大家在陷入這樣的一個方式然後呢重點是你們未來來說報告委員這可能是誤會啦等一下我還有你可以等下一併回答還有特別"},{"start":3229.691,"end":3233.313,"text":"你現在目前為止我們要開始編列明年的預算然後你們告訴我們說科技非常的重要然後呢你們可能在115年7月確定8月要編預算書你目前為止在增加預算當中將要編列1800億元你認為目前為止你有收到任何的通知說這1800億元會受到影響嗎"},{"start":3250.031,"end":3265.809,"text":"我們行政院已經就這個財化法修正案通過以後必須要重新調備各部門的你認為目前為止你有感受到1800億收到影響嗎你有收到這樣的一個訊息嗎然後呢你說財化法上路會是一個災難然後你目前有收到任何的影響嗎你要預估嗎"},{"start":3267.53,"end":3281.585,"text":"報告委員的確有受到影響我現在只問你 你有感受到1800億目前有被要求說這個經費要受到調整嗎 有沒有有然後要調整多少要調整至少要減200億這樣"},{"start":3283.96,"end":3299.263,"text":"我只是告诉你啊目前来说那我们就看看你今年七月所编制的预算我只能说我们也同意赞成科研人力各方面都非常的重要但是呢如果目前为止尚未发生还在编制预算请你就好好跟你们的科证委员报告"},{"start":3299.724,"end":3327.757,"text":"好好的守住这个部分但是我对于还没有发生特别是114年这部分你们这样的说法然后呢又一直到好像这个时候又一直到是蓝白乱砍预算以至于研发这样我们的部分有受到影响这样的一个推论我个人是非常有意见我觉得有多少的事情就要讲多少的话这是很重要我让我那个赵伟让我这样很快就把它讲完然后呢有关业务费冻结30里面有关科学园区人才的这个培育当中呢我还是要直指啊"},{"start":3328.797,"end":3336.719,"text":"被凍結的這三十我們等一下會來一一來做但是你看到你們這個園區的培育人才2016年是五千四但是呢到2024年的時候你們是降到兩千八所以人才呢人數越來越低還有呢更不要講說我們所提到的招生一併等一下我們會在解讀的時候一併來說明你們招生比例來說特別是南科的部分來說說實在的效果也不是非常的好但是你們在報告的部分裡面你們是給我兩句話"},{"start":3358.066,"end":3375.922,"text":"就給我解決了這點是讓本席覺得非常不滿意的相對竹科相對中科南科時鐘的報告這個部分來告訴你就要這樣解凍我覺得持續改善策略這個以科學出身的主委來說你可能也不太會接受最後我還是要提到的有很多的時候再往下這都等一下"},{"start":3377.903,"end":3395.618,"text":"提供你来做一个参考虽然说你在很多业务费基本的工作还有资讯管理的部分里面你都告诉我们你们被冻结但是呢我们的经费比过去还要多而且最重要的是国会每年都有剩余所以我只能说我们会用很多的方法来协助大家做业务的一个发展但是呢"},{"start":3396.038,"end":3402.182,"text":"你不能無限的告訴我們就說因為這個東西沒有辦法然後給你這麼多的經費而且事實證明你們在決算的時候都有剩餘的狀況我個人認為到目前為止應該在維持基本的行政工作來說資訊管理上面應該是問題不大"},{"start":3412.108,"end":3438.173,"text":"包括委員因為業務會是在行政事務上面我們在特別是在南科現在大幅的擴充因為委員也知道說我們在高雄兩大名廠現在如火如荼但是主委南科的部分擴充我們絕對會給予大力的支持但是呢如果你這些經費不夠的話我們可以用很多追加或很多的方式來說但是我只是告訴你以目前為止我們所看到的訊息你所剩餘的目前來說"},{"start":3439.873,"end":3453.645,"text":"在我們解凍之前說實在的在很多業務的推行上面應該還是可以的不過當初這個立法院的決議是不能流用其他經費我們的組織是管得非常嚴格所以業務費還是要拜託我們等一下但是我們就從數據來告訴"},{"start":3461.951,"end":3481.998,"text":"告訴我們的主委特別是你們線上申請服務我都還不要講真的 線上申請的服務介紹這也是你的理由但是你的理由裡面告訴我們你們服務的這個案數是完全是往下降的我只是用數據來告訴你在下次再給我們寫解凍報告的時候可能要提出更好的一個數據我們就要有辦法依這個報告來幫你們做這樣一個處理 好不好謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝柯志恩委員質詢 官員請回座接下來有請吳佩奕委員質詢"},{"start":3498.083,"end":3499.865,"text":"謝謝主席 我請國科會吳主委有請吳主委備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":3505.864,"end":3529.144,"text":"主委好你知道我一直非常關心我們太空中心還有太空三期計畫的預算所以剛剛前面有提到說解凍去年的凍結預算跟刪除預算對我們國科會整體的計畫造成的影響其中有一點我想要特別提醒你們因為我看到太空中心在去年被凍結了一筆五百萬"},{"start":3530.425,"end":3533.468,"text":"上面凍結的理由是說你們在113年太空中心的預算原額是486人但是去年還有50個名額是缺額的就是這個缺額未滿沒有把它補滿所以你們因此被凍結了500萬我想請問一下去年的這個50個名額我們在什麼時候把它補滿了"},{"start":3555.954,"end":3580.505,"text":"我們已經補滿了,2月已經很快的補滿了在去年底,你們今天的報告寫說113年12月,去年的原額就已經補滿了是不是這個樣子?今年2月補滿了今年2月補滿了,這是去年的原額然後今年還要再新增我們還要新增,因為我們一直在擴充我們的業務,所以還在新增"},{"start":3581.445,"end":3597.64,"text":"所以這一點我希望你們要特別的注意因為大家都很支持你們的預算不要因為這樣子被凍結了反而造成使用上面之行會有一些影響那麼大家國人最關心的就是我們太空三期了"},{"start":3598.4,"end":3601.502,"text":"這個主委應該也記得我從去年進到立法院以來在委員會跟國科會關心我在總質詢的時候也跟院長關心那我知道最近我們賴清德總統也造訪了太空中心因為我們的福衛八號有一個即將就要來進行啟運跟發射所以這個大家都很期待啦這個福衛八號的發射是我們太空計畫的下一個里程碑那太空三期喔"},{"start":3626.716,"end":3631.099,"text":"要這個原先在2019年的時候我們訂的預算是251億到2023年的時候當時小英總統造訪就喊出說我們太空三級要加碼當時喊出要加碼達到400億"},{"start":3641.886,"end":3649.375,"text":"那我知道我們國科會其實做了很多的努力跟計畫的準備已經送進行政院了嘛接下來就是等院來審核通過我要問主委你對我們太空三型計畫的預算加碼超過400億你有沒有信心啊"},{"start":3661.949,"end":3667.514,"text":"我有信心但是需要我們大院來支持超過400億我們有信心啊是好我們非常的期待因為我想沉入你們今天的報告我們看到了在產值的部分讓我非常的非常的覺得很值得我們肯定說太空產業呢台灣去年的產值就達到了2773億"},{"start":3687.811,"end":3697.939,"text":"是整體產業喔然後呢其中我們在地面製造的部分台灣的廠商的地面製造的產值是達到了也是超過2000億2464億最重要的是它的成長率我剛剛前面講到成長率都是超過10%那你們的報告裡面告訴我們說這一個成長的幅度是大於全球市場的成長幅度所以"},{"start":3716.112,"end":3717.513,"text":"你們國科會預估我們台灣的太空產業在今年跟明年的產值都會持續提升主委能不能告訴我們你們是怎麼樣來依據什麼來預估的那台灣的成長幅度為什麼比其他國家來得高呢"},{"start":3731.92,"end":3755.243,"text":"目前太空中心的策略,我們現在改了,就是不是只有政府要發射衛星,我們要跟國際合作,國際合作就是造成一個我們台灣的供應鏈,一個很大的商機,那不是只有衛星本體跟它的這個籌載,還有地面站,還有那個使用者終端的設備,這個量非常的大,所以台灣的廠商很有興趣,我們已經組成幾乎就是國家隊了,"},{"start":3756.004,"end":3785.371,"text":"那其實我們去年整年的這個產值的提升國產的這些供應鏈的這個產值提升已經成長了超過100%那我估計今年還會再持續成長而且會有蠻亮眼的成績好 所以我們已經有政府跟民間一起協力的太空國家隊好 非常期待那我想等太空三期計畫出來之後我們再來進行審視跟討論接下來也是很重要的是我們的算力部件"},{"start":3785.771,"end":3791.152,"text":"之前也跟主委質詢過我們在台灣在AI時代的基礎計劃目前國科會我們自由的有精創計劃跟大南方計劃那也有民間的算力資源在你們解凍報告當中有提到政威集團然後想要AI算力中心揮達的台北萬主機等等就在前幾天5月19號黃仁勛在Computex的演說中他提到"},{"start":3813.298,"end":3828.744,"text":"輝達將與國科會台積電以及鴻海四方合作共同打造台灣的AI基礎設施國科會也有公開回應說這個是雙方正在規劃當中事實的會來對外說明所以我請教主委已經見面討論過了已經初步討論過那細節我們後續會有初步討論過那這個事實公佈啊有沒有機會是在下半年"},{"start":3841.875,"end":3856.904,"text":"今年第一期大概鴻海就會開始建置第一期那預計第一期劉洋偉董事長也公開的講大概就是200MW這樣的目標那後續還有兩期包含"},{"start":3864.028,"end":3892.064,"text":"包含第二期跟第三期大概都會到40MW那這一部分不是只有鴻海跟輝達他們的合作還包含台積電跟國科會國科會在科研部分科技產業推動我們在各行各業要發展AI應用的產業這個我們也都會除了我們自己建的算力之外還會使用到民間"},{"start":3893.004,"end":3917.523,"text":"投資的這個算力讓台灣的這個力量更為強大是跟民間的合作很重要那我們國科會的自由算力也很重要所以我最後還是想要請教主委因為之前有問過你們我們的金創方案還有大南方方案金創是在台中中埔對不對那大南方會是在台南沙崙我們目前的規劃是怎麼樣呢"},{"start":3918.584,"end":3935.066,"text":"我們的算力早期都是偏中在北部,最主要的基地就是新竹科學園區國防中心的總部後來我們在台灣三建制的時候就在台中建制資料中心高速電腦"},{"start":3936.047,"end":3952.298,"text":"那賴總統在均衡台灣的這個理念之下我們也希望在南部有足夠的這個這個算力的建置那當然所有的這個資料中心算力的建置都是服務全國的絕對不是一定是服務當地而已啦那可是培養人才"},{"start":3953.118,"end":3976.966,"text":"因為算力中心建置以後要有很多的人才進來要做營運要做服務所以要均衡南北我們現在就是把最近這一期的算力就放在南部那除了台南之外剛剛講高雄非常大的算力是民間投資國科會也會跟他們合作那這個全部都是服務全國的"},{"start":3977.831,"end":3996.118,"text":"我想算力的基礎建設可以說新一代國家的十大建設之一了也非常的重要影響到了產業人力人才培育相關的發展等等所以希望我們國科會跟民間合作我們自己的自由算力也要持續的來提升是好謝謝主委謝謝吳佩奕委員質詢官員請回座好接下來我們有請萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":4010.404,"end":4011.386,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請吳主委請吳主委備質詢 謝謝關委員好"},{"start":4019.875,"end":4048.917,"text":"好 主委長那最近我們其實看到台中火力發電廠九組發電機組火力全開那同時呢高雄的大林電廠還有興達電廠也默默加開了三號跟四號兩部燃煤機組那這一陣子其實大家都在關心這個空氣品質那不曉得主委有沒有注意我們覺得台灣最近空氣品質怎麼樣根據我們環境部公布的資料我記得品質並沒有變差"},{"start":4050.246,"end":4060.643,"text":"品質並沒有變差您個人也是這樣的感覺我自己我的鼻子其實沒有辦法乾什麼我鼻子感覺不出來"},{"start":4062.554,"end":4086.746,"text":"你的鼻子感覺不出來 好 這個關於您個人身體狀況的問題我就不予置評了但是呢 國科會的空氣品質感測器竟然意外地加劇了空汙那這個呢 你鼻子感覺不出來 但你一定知道這件事4月14號 陽明山國家公園小油坑發生了火燒山的意外"},{"start":4087.846,"end":4101.523,"text":"這個火勢燃燒將近50公頃起火原因疑似是由國營業國網中心的這個空氣品質感測器的離電池引起的那主委也非常的重視也親自到了現場去了解"},{"start":4103.966,"end":4126.207,"text":"後續我的了解主委更有對全台各地16支內建離電池的空氣品質感測器把它全拆了所以除了這個之外我們現在還有沒有其他有風險的科研設備在不曉得你到現場去看過以後的情況跟現在後續處理是怎麼樣報告委員"},{"start":4127.952,"end":4146.988,"text":"那時候媒體報導大概有50公頃其實是因為煙霧瀰漫後來我們陽明山國家公園管理處已經鑑定完畢大概大約在4.5公頃我也親自去看過那邊就是芒草跟建築所以主委這次可能就分兩個我們來看如果說燃燒的是4點多公頃那你煙霧瀰漫50公頃這就是一個污染當時可是那煙霧有些是"},{"start":4154.874,"end":4174.432,"text":"掺杂那个小油坑本来就好我们回到正题来所以你有没有再去看其他这些有风险的科研设备有我们都已经清查了所有的国会学校我们国研院所有的这个监测的设备我们并不是说全部都要拆除了而是把有风险的"},{"start":4175.794,"end":4197.474,"text":"安全的我們還是會繼續做,因為不只是科研,我們提供很重要的監測數據主委,我想您自己剛剛也有講,其實我們在國科會轄下會有很多科研相關的設備恐怕也有一些,因為我不知道在什麼地方,恐怕也有一些在公共的場域都會有一些我們這次看到的疑似的潛在安全風險"},{"start":4198.615,"end":4221.182,"text":"如果這一次是火燒山那如果我們有些科研設備是在人口稠密的地方那我覺得啦萬一發生了什麼樣的狀況的時候那還要造成人員傷亡那真的非常嚴重那所以除了剛才您所說的我們先去了解我們現在哪些地方有這些科研設備整個盤點一次那同時我們有沒有去建立科研設備的風險管理還有一些監測相關機制"},{"start":4223.183,"end":4239.657,"text":"謝謝委員提醒,我們的確有了這次的教訓,我們的確已經做了比較安全的作業規範。這個作業規範也不是只有我們國研院裡面的各個單位,而是跟我們合作的一些廠商,我們也同步會規範。"},{"start":4240.458,"end":4265.933,"text":"很好所以除了風險控管機制之外我想我們這個國科會作為全國科學技術發展的主管機關針對有安全風險的科研設備你要去做這個即時監控跟通報異常的功能我覺得應該是不難而且應該是很快可以做好來所以你這個整個盤點加上剛剛所說的要把這些機制建立起來你需要多久的時間"},{"start":4267.148,"end":4275.616,"text":"我們已經建立起來了完整了嗎?已經完整了那會後可不可以給我們一個完整的報告讓我們更放心好不好好 那接下來我想也是要稱讚一下國科會在上週被輝達執行長黃仁勛點名要一起和台積電與鴻海合作為台灣打造AI基礎建設這可以說是對國科會的一個肯定啦但是我們當然也要提醒說你看"},{"start":4289.028,"end":4309.261,"text":"如果連這個黃仁勳都這麼肯定將來我們還有這麼多的事情要做所以剛剛所說的風險控管就要更小心一些了所以剛才我們又說到這個輝達執行長我們也知道其實黃仁勳旋風一直都在那不管他逛夜市不管他去哪家餐廳參加視狀運都可以引起這個全國矚目也是媒體追逐的焦點"},{"start":4310.422,"end":4328.47,"text":"那所以呢他在這個北流的演講當中去宣布說回答台灣總部要落腳在台北的北投士林科技園區那這件事情在之前那個主委這邊有沒有相當的掌握跟了解他自己宣布之前他其實並沒有透露"},{"start":4329.372,"end":4358.26,"text":"手口如瓶好那其實我相信包括本席的選區桃園我們都一定會想要積極來爭取可是我們看到像輝達這樣的一個科技巨頭在選址的時候他應該有很多的考量包括人才供電還有產業聚落等等這也凸顯一個核心的問題就是未來台灣要在全球AI與高科技的浪潮當中保持競爭力科學園區的前瞻規劃還有土地整備絕對是非常重要的這一點主委同意嗎"},{"start":4359.661,"end":4384.355,"text":"所以国科会也正在规划要增建科学园区的土地面积上个礼拜在5月21号的时候环境部召开了新设科学园区政策评估说明专案小组的会议当时国科会以厂商要跟流台湾来做一个修正的原因也提出了要增加科学园区的用地那这个目标是在2050年新设3000公顷的科学园区用地对吗"},{"start":4385.279,"end":4402.605,"text":"是 我們的確提出這樣但是據本席了解這個面積比原來說要增設1000公頃大幅增加了就是說我們的目標值大幅增加了三倍之多可是我們又看到截至今年5月我們台灣目前在營運中的科學園區面積是4472公頃如果加上開發或者開發中或者規劃中869公頃那合計總共是5341公頃"},{"start":4412.068,"end":4424.152,"text":"我們現在說要再增加3000公頃等於是增加全台灣現在現有科學面積的56%是這麼大的量所以我想要請教一下主委我們現在我們講出來這3000公頃的開發規劃是如何推估產業需求的"},{"start":4429.688,"end":4457.117,"text":"報告委員剛剛講三千公頃就是加上目前一千公頃再加兩千那其實我們未來的這個需求台積電依照我們的人力土地水電等資源的推估大概還需要再一千公頃那為什麼要提兩千公頃原因是因為我接任以後我其實是希望我們發展未來的園區是要把產業跟生態跟社區"},{"start":4458.217,"end":4479.969,"text":"要把它融合在一起弄成一個比較低度開發的這種優質的這個園區我們的確是要保護生態如果我們園區裡面只是產業而已那生態就是在園區外面我們讓它置身置面的話反而對於我們濱林絕種的生物"},{"start":4480.789,"end":4506.708,"text":"會有更大的這個如果你說的這個部分我想本席十分的認同其實本來也就是要提醒這其實您剛剛所說的部分是重要的那您既然已經注意到了我覺得在將來的規劃跟落實的執行各方面我覺得要更細緻一點因為你看你現在說的原本的一千加兩千總之要增加三千公頃這個面積是非常大這似乎就像本席的選區桃園區差不多的大小"},{"start":4507.268,"end":4525.355,"text":"也差不多就是我們竹科將近4.6倍大所以您剛所說的部分我想科研AI的發展尤其是我想我們自己的召委其實葛如君委員其實在這方面也是非常的支持的所以我想面對這麼大面積的土地開發的規劃就像您剛所說的那一些些您剛所提出的每一項都應該要審慎的評估"},{"start":4532.218,"end":4539.324,"text":"可是比較可惜的是到目前為止我在國科會的科學園區政策評估說明書裡面我覺得還沒有看到太多太細的說明跟評估我是希望能不能盡快的把它送出來給我們看因為在上一週專案小組會議之後本席看到媒體有很多的環評委員認為國科會的說明書叫做寫得蠻糟的問題蠻多的尤其針對"},{"start":4558.599,"end":4574.368,"text":"廢信物處理還有用水用電都沒有辦法說明完整那更遑論剛才主委所說的這麼遠大的目標要做一個整體的開發跟保護所以是不是啊這裡因為今天時間也到了能不能請國客會會後用書面來補充說明多久可以送上來兩個月內可以兩個月內不會太久嗎因為現在還有委員在提意見所以我們會依照委員的意見"},{"start":4586.429,"end":4596.341,"text":"讓委員可以放心的狀況之下我們調整完一定會送給萬委員好 那我想叫委員會其實我們所有的委員都要了解好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝萬美玲委員質詢官員請回座"},{"start":4616.621,"end":4617.542,"text":"請葛委員質詢好謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委"},{"start":4642.231,"end":4659.78,"text":"昨天三三會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法支持嗎"},{"start":4663.41,"end":4680.067,"text":"我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對"},{"start":4681.277,"end":4697.546,"text":"你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展啦所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家"},{"start":4699.605,"end":4723.398,"text":"主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理這個不用複述了我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國科會"},{"start":4724.498,"end":4743.148,"text":"黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能"},{"start":4744.128,"end":4759.041,"text":"那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡"},{"start":4768.442,"end":4795.81,"text":"我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避 逃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員 賴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔讓我們科學的政治對嘛 那其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎"},{"start":4797.642,"end":4823.915,"text":"好 沒有關係啦 這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講 所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦 其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法 那你支不支持你自己的說法"},{"start":4824.675,"end":4853.382,"text":"專家應該要回來研究新核能技術 支持吧當然支持可以支持嗎我公開的講很好 那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費 要吸引多少人才我們其實啊 明年的這個預算會增加但是就是 我現在就是不知道沒關係 你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊 對不對你不能說 欸 財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到"},{"start":4854.122,"end":4877.037,"text":"現在還沒啊 還沒刪啊 也還沒砍啊 好不好 我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少 要吸引多少人才新核能 這是吳祖瑞講的是 新核能 我們談的新核能 最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少 多少人 多少經費 對不起 我時間有限"},{"start":4878.624,"end":4887.249,"text":"現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁判法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁判法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少"},{"start":4908.562,"end":4924.218,"text":"這個至少要明年至少要編五億五億是不是對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬"},{"start":4928.827,"end":4950.462,"text":"這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛"},{"start":4951.343,"end":4973.391,"text":"我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊"},{"start":4979.693,"end":4996.743,"text":"沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實呢每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已"},{"start":4997.967,"end":5008.623,"text":"那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎25 26號都停電啦"},{"start":5013.47,"end":5035.914,"text":"我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟原管局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是原管處為了配合台電的要求請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有"},{"start":5036.806,"end":5059.802,"text":"那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来"},{"start":5060.743,"end":5075.928,"text":"怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊"},{"start":5077.286,"end":5090.418,"text":"三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是"},{"start":5091.591,"end":5113.494,"text":"大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要"},{"start":5115.096,"end":5126.862,"text":"這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊"},{"start":5132.125,"end":5152.4,"text":"那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題"},{"start":5153.772,"end":5173.387,"text":"所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒 新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想的還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法"},{"start":5176.129,"end":5189.28,"text":"所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究"},{"start":5192.182,"end":5206.27,"text":"最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委 不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能"},{"start":5207.19,"end":5227.867,"text":"我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去的核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委這個不會發生"},{"start":5232.15,"end":5251.718,"text":"主委 這個代理主席 我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委 你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過?有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過?有沒有恆星會消失?"},{"start":5256.539,"end":5264.219,"text":"這是common sense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊"},{"start":5266.175,"end":5269.479,"text":"我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到"},{"start":5287.119,"end":5303.446,"text":"我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下"},{"start":5305.046,"end":5327.931,"text":"國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了"},{"start":5331.673,"end":5334.857,"text":"歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看缺電啊主委 缺電啊"},{"start":5345.666,"end":5362.898,"text":"所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員"},{"start":5366.961,"end":5385.193,"text":"說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講這句話沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您"},{"start":5396.721,"end":5412.992,"text":"有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人"},{"start":5414.433,"end":5440.984,"text":"自駕車如果是我們講autonomous那自主型的那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是但是未來它是自主的自主的無人機它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委"},{"start":5442.865,"end":5467.908,"text":"人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們並沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦就依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計"},{"start":5468.789,"end":5485.809,"text":"我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定一個比例您要規劃啊否則你100億下去到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導"},{"start":5488.372,"end":5502.456,"text":"對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛Elon Musk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人"},{"start":5508.237,"end":5518.982,"text":"我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活"},{"start":5528.126,"end":5556.335,"text":"我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI"},{"start":5558.191,"end":5577.095,"text":"所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回座"},{"start":5593.976,"end":5597.017,"text":"接下來有請劉書斌委員質詢有請吳主委有請吳主委備質詢 謝謝劉委員好好 主委好"},{"start":5615.933,"end":5636.266,"text":"我們看下一頁就是作為一個高教領域的學者那我們的研究能力的一個提升還有促進國家的科研發展其實是非常重要的一個工作那我們看到下一面計畫的時候可以看到是看到的是好像不是這一頁"},{"start":5647.435,"end":5671.572,"text":"好 那沒關係我再次跟大家講就是這可能要換檔案喔在這地方我們先看到的是在國科會的這個計畫當中它其實有一個部分就是說它有個填要填主要學歷然後再有最高的學歷再依次來寫那這個情況之下呢這是很重要的部分而且是依照最高學歷依次來寫那就往下看那我們現在就想要請問的是下一頁好"},{"start":5677.56,"end":5680.091,"text":"这个部分好这个部分"},{"start":5681.209,"end":5686.571,"text":"我們的助理他應該是換錯檔案那我現在跟大家講的是在這個我想要詢問的是在台北科大的江雅琪教授她過去她101年畢業之後她在102年的時候就開始做這個申請那曾經是有9次的這個申請的這個情形那在申請的這個情形當中呢她在她個人資料這部分她寫的是計畫主持人不同意公開"},{"start":5708.16,"end":5717.568,"text":"那請問主委因為這個新聞已經有報出來了請問您知道江亞琪教授在她的這樣子的寫國科會計畫申請的時候她寫的這個個人資料部分她的這個內容她的在個人的主要學門的部分她是寫什麼"},{"start":5725.402,"end":5745.188,"text":"我們學者如果他個資的部分他選擇不公開我們是當然是依照個資法我們是不能公開的但是你們後來應該你們在兩年前的時候有做這樣的一個審核了啦這部分我們現在就看到這裡他主持人沒有空過那沒有關係因為之後因為這件事情你們國科會在前年的時候應該也有處理我們往下看這部分"},{"start":5747.23,"end":5756.026,"text":"在後來的情況之下呢就看到是說其實江雅琪教授她本身的學歷是那個證書上面寫的是她是社會"},{"start":5757.694,"end":5780.125,"text":"杜倫大學的2012年畢業的這樣的一個士他是社會科學健康學院的哲學博士是他的哲學博士但是呢我們後來看到國科會在審查的情況之下因為他有被人家檢舉那檢舉的時候就很清楚的呈現出來是事實上他寫的是法學院博士法學院的博士"},{"start":5781.225,"end":5784.307,"text":"法學院博士的情況是他後來就被檢舉在北科大的情況他事實上在110年的時候有人檢舉到教育部的部長信箱就呈現出來是他是因為申請到光明教育委員會的計畫的時候被申請認定說是他被揭發不實所以他還被要求說管理費要回來"},{"start":5803.24,"end":5810.585,"text":"要把他繳回 那他也繳回了那我們後來再看到繼續有人在檢舉之後 我們再往下看在這個新聞當中呈現出來是2022年 等於說是111年的情況之下呢這個部分他在6月25號的時候稱了北科大的審查認為是有問題的他自稱北科大的審查是有問題的那科技部呢就判他反定功因為他說呢 因為已經釐清了那這個地方我們大家還沒有聽到是什麼東西可是到隔一天的時候我們看看是"},{"start":5834.401,"end":5841.589,"text":"111年的6月26號的時候往下一頁看111年6月26號的時候呢這是你們國科會自己抓的媒體的報導報導當中說到這個部分了就是因為他沒有得到"},{"start":5848.237,"end":5867.711,"text":"就是依照這個研究資料的這個表決來做的時候呢他事實上是三分之二是沒有過但是你們在上面解說了本案雖未達構成違反學術倫理的行為但是呢因為填寫他因為他填的是法學院他不實的這個情勢呢跟填寫實際情況是不符的疏失的所以就發函說應該未來的時候就是應該"},{"start":5870.293,"end":5896.293,"text":"不要再發生這種情形 就這樣改變可是出現這樣的情況下說你們審查判定未達造假 但是確認定不實這兩個不是 這兩個部分不是 我跟委員報告我們國科會如果有違反學術倫理的案件被舉報了那國科會一定會組成委員會來討論他是不是有違反學術倫理然後要討論他如何要處置"},{"start":5897.814,"end":5907.821,"text":"那這個案件在當時就我所知因為這不是我認為辦理的在當時的確進到我們學術倫理委員會那委員根據辦法我們一定要依法行事但是我跟你講這邊部分我們看到往下一看的時候他不實是確定的但是你們再看看他下面的成見倒數是說如果你們看到他們這個規則在講說除失處理及審議要講說造假是存在虛構不存在的申請資料跟研究成果等等的"},{"start":5927.914,"end":5956.21,"text":"可是是不是你們內部在討論的時候我現在只要確定事實上是說他的確有不實嘛對不對因為你們的內容這樣講那我現在只是要跟竹文您講的實在說如果他不實的話當然如果真的達到的話就是書面的嫁戒嘛對不對可是你們說因為三分之二沒達到可是你們卻在你們的新聞稿當中提出來這些部分嘛八卦是說他真的是虛假不實所以要他做改變嘛如果他不是如果他是真的他為什麼需要改變需要讓他說以後不要再做這樣的事情"},{"start":5956.914,"end":5972.419,"text":"是他的確因為他是個人填的他的個人資料是他個人填就好像我個人的履歷都是我自己寫的那我怎麼樣講我的履歷別人其實不太會來關注嘛這個事情是因為他填到國科會的網站上面"},{"start":5972.739,"end":5990.857,"text":"但是主委我現在跟您問一個問題如果你寫法學院的博士跟你是社會健康學院的博士你在申請相關領域的這樣的一個申請的時候你覺得哪一個比較容易被申請到應該就是可以據說是法學院吧對這是申請人他個人自己判斷我們是允許"},{"start":5991.417,"end":6020.492,"text":"我們允許不同領域的人到不同的學門申請計畫這是允許因為有很多跨領域合作的研究是需要不同的學門的人一起來做研究這是允許的但是他宣稱自己從某個學院畢業是他自己要負責是他自己填的那我們在學術倫理委員會我們也討論了但是並沒有到三分之二的委員認為這個已經嚴重到只是希望他要更改"},{"start":6022.252,"end":6050.043,"text":"這個是疏失這個部分涉及到的是因為他這個部分涉及到的是他的確有這個部分就是他有實際上另外的考量制度這一部分就是部分需要是要有確實不然不然你寫這個資料就造成說他有甚至你們在說下面的時候可以看到你們自己寫說一向重視學術研究誠信學歷登載不實你們說的喔不但會傷害學者個人生活也可能影響學術資源分配是公正性這就是重點啦學術資源分配的公正性"},{"start":6050.863,"end":6055.768,"text":"有可能會誤導審查委員會有這個企圖存在所以這地方絕對是要有做一個惡質的動作好這邊我就先到這邊的為止我們現在回到要做的是關於國客會的預算的解凍這一部分往下一頁"},{"start":6067.406,"end":6082.623,"text":"你們為了在國家太空中心這部分呈現出來是說他在第四點要委員關心的事項當中是說太空產值在全球的太空產業佔比能夠偏低那請問一下這個佔比在全世界的產值比例是佔的多少"},{"start":6084.468,"end":6086.671,"text":"你說目前啊對對對 你們自己有偏低這個數據嗎我要請我們太空中心吳主任來回答因為大概現在佔比是比較低大概2到3%2到3%主要原因以前台灣是沒有太空產業這回事"},{"start":6100.225,"end":6118.837,"text":"好 我們現在先知道我們從這個基礎往上發展那我們也看到太空產業的發展當中你們就分成四大領域衛星製造 衛星發射 地面設備跟衛星服務這四大領域這是你們寫的那我們繼續往下看就一個一個來看的時候那我們再看到的是你們在剛才的整個四個領域當中2773億當中"},{"start":6121.659,"end":6143.24,"text":"在第三個部分 地面設施的部分 設備這部分你們佔了2464億所以這個平面看起來是說它佔的是比較高超過了應該是有大概九成左右嘛 對不對那九成左右 那其他的三個領域當中是當然就要再講就是它可能有分配88%啦那其他三種的發展就是應該極速的要加強 對不對"},{"start":6146.156,"end":6151.081,"text":"我們都要發展但是因為地面的設備的部分量是最大的所以它的佔比會 將來的產值好 那我們繼續往下看這部分我看到再繼續看到衛星製造這部分那我們現在是有一個就是你們有說到新創追星企劃這一部分"},{"start":6163.274,"end":6179.45,"text":"它這個有些衛星的關鍵元件要去製造那自製率因為你們把所謂的太空的這個計畫把它自主衛星計畫的自主是當作很重要的一個目標那現在的關鍵元件自主率現在自製率是達到95%那請問大概預計什麼時候會達到100%有沒有這樣的一個規劃預計自己的目標設定"},{"start":6185.444,"end":6204.219,"text":"我們其實要跟國際合作不見得要到百分之百有很多關鍵的零組件跟我們友善的國家一個合作的關係反而會創造我們更多的市場所以我們在策略上不要變成是一個獨佔但是我們現在目標當然是希望能夠達到八九十%"},{"start":6205.581,"end":6225.901,"text":"這樣的這個自治率那跟一個友好的國家我們要維持一個很好的這個合作的關係那將來才有辦法讓我們可以使用到很多的衛星的這個頻寬因為我們自己做了這個花錢我們自己做的完整的衛星的數量不會太多政府的資源有限希望將來扶持產業的發展讓我們"},{"start":6229.384,"end":6238.431,"text":"你們用你們策略性的考量就對了啦對有策略性的考量好那我們繼續往下看因為還有其他請教的部分那我們繼續往下看那衛星發射這是我們現在的重點啦你們在報告上都寫照是說要規劃大概2000公斤的這個一個籌債的任務一個需求齁那這個部分因為目前我們現在看的微衛星那你們現在包括了福衛的這個8號通通都是大概400多公斤嘛齁那你們400公斤左右你們都是透過跟國際間的這個發射到卡納維爾角這部分"},{"start":6256.584,"end":6281.109,"text":"那大概何時遇到到兩千公斤的這部分因為需要有目標的規劃兩百公斤的規範我們現在福衛八號預計今年十月要發射大概有四百公斤沒錯可是我們現在是自主的一個發射能力啊這很重要啊自主發射能力火箭的部分我們目標是兩百因為是要發射那個通信衛星通信衛星跟現在福衛八號它是主要是遙測"},{"start":6282.489,"end":6284.109,"text":"那什麼時候要達成?預計什麼時候完成?200公斤的?入軌火箭的部分嗎?目前預計到自主發射10年我們從去年開始算,就是到2034"},{"start":6303.814,"end":6307.576,"text":"2034年 因為現在還要建置發射場然後我們那個火箭研究的大樓也是才開始要蓋所以因為這個預算的編列就是限制我們沒有辦法一下就的確的確我們剛才看到這邊還有很大的發展空間那我們繼續往下看你剛才講到那個發射的場地場域的部分我們看到這部分"},{"start":6329.125,"end":6351.373,"text":"今年的時候你們已經也做了一個新聞媒體的記者會是說新聞稿要呈現出來3月26號說的已經確定的是在兩個一個台東一個在屏東的滿洲鄉的情況之下那因為它本身有需要很多的這個場址上面有些條件要符合那其中你們提到的是說在"},{"start":6352.913,"end":6378.173,"text":"南台南田部落當中有一個選址就是有這個部落的一個有同意這個部分有達成這個部分可是現在問題你們你們只知道這一部分那我想問的是說請問在屏東你們現在選定的這個屏東縣的九鵬村這部分的確定的這個什麼這個地方的這個公聽會有沒有做有沒有做有全部都有做我們在九鵬村也一樣共識已經達成了嗎當地當地當地民眾也也是六到七成同意"},{"start":6382.916,"end":6409.131,"text":"其實有超過七成那請問在什麼時候因為你們在剛剛的這個報告當中並沒有你們只寫到南田部落你們沒有寫那所以請問一下南田部落是我們最後選址的兩個最後的這個場子之一那我其實我也公開的講我們將來在這個火箭發射場的規劃建置其實不是只有發射場我們會搭配我們的太空科技博物館太空科技交易館那兩個地方都會有兩個地方都會有"},{"start":6412.132,"end":6432.748,"text":"兩個地方都有但是你現在是說屏東九鵬村的滿洲鄉的九鵬村已經是確定的已經確定那是發射場發射場將來還有這個我剛提到的博物館跟教育館那還有這個各種各樣的這個結合當地生態旅遊的這個規劃兩個地方我們都會規劃是很好那我現在是說你們確定那請問九鵬村的這個宮廳會是什麼時候舉行的"},{"start":6439.895,"end":6449.442,"text":"那都已經結束啦 都已經同意啦可是你們那邊沒有寫齁所以我想說確定日期因為這個1月4號的在藍田部落這邊是有的但是這邊在報告當中是沒有呈現出來所以懷疑是不是沒有做是 是 都完成了那這個是不是把時間到時候請發射的部分屬於這部分來把資料提供出來好"},{"start":6460.43,"end":6462.812,"text":"好 謝謝 那繼續往下看另外更重要的是說包括有這個後續的敏感這個環境敏感地區的部分還有這個居民的餘裕這部分我希望在環評這部分也做了嗎"},{"start":6472.626,"end":6489.059,"text":"環境影響評估是後續要進行因為要選址確定以後我們馬上就要進行所以一定會依照法令一定會做的跟當地的生態保育團體甚至當地村民還有鄉民我們甚至全部都會去溝通"},{"start":6497.726,"end":6520.72,"text":"這邊就到此,再跟主席借大概半分鐘就好了我們繼續往下看,在這裡,清除科學園區它其實佔到蠻大的一個費用那往下看的時候,就是說凍結百分之三十的部分你們提到的項目類別有六項,可是六項當中你們事實上對於未明,就並沒有具體的明列它的這個細項的部分我們繼續再往下看的時候,可以看到是說"},{"start":6522.372,"end":6529.538,"text":"成果有講,但是未來要做什麼?你看竹科的新竹園區的擴建,榮台園區的擴建,請問擴建是屬於在業務費當中嗎?我們接下來馬上要上任的新的局長擴建一開始是在我們建管組業務費裡面的規劃"},{"start":6543.908,"end":6550.378,"text":"所以它事實上真的是業務費擴建這部分好 那請問一下 在生物VO這個生物跟這個資通產業的整合編列的產業也是放在它的這個發展也是放在業務費是嗎是的 它這是一個補助的計畫好"},{"start":6559.751,"end":6581.11,"text":"還有人才培訓的計畫好那這個地方我希望還是看到有時候KPI的部分就是到底想要達到什麼一個效果成果等等因為你們這邊在報告當中都沒有寫反而是花很多時間在過去的可是最重要是凍結預算要把它解重的話最重要是要看到未來你們做到什麼東西可是這沒有呈現出來我想應該把它補充是不是在大概兩個禮拜就呈現出來你們這個這個目標的KPI呈現好謝謝那就謝謝主席好謝謝委員"},{"start":6588.583,"end":6597.61,"text":"謝謝劉書斌委員的諮詢 官員請回座接下來我們在陳秀寶委員之後呢休息五分鐘那我們接下來有請羅廷瑞委員諮詢好 謝謝主席 有請我們吳主委有請吳主委備諮詢 謝謝羅委員好好 主委好主委 最近我們台灣人來瘋"},{"start":6618.24,"end":6643.725,"text":"那怎麼說人來風黃仁勳那黃仁勳回台演講還宣布回答要在北市科設海外總部全台都在看他要不要帶著整條AI產業鏈回來跟台灣合作他也講得很清楚說會和台積電、鴻海還有國科會一起打造台灣的第一台AI電腦我想請問主委目前這個合作談的進度如何談到哪裡了"},{"start":6644.705,"end":6649.033,"text":"我們只是有初步的討論過依照他們發布的這樣的訊息後續細節還沒有談所以是屬於被動嗎"},{"start":6657.576,"end":6684.626,"text":"也不算啦大家一起動啦大家一起動你認為國會在這個部分上是負責主導投資還是技術協調國會代表我們政府也包含經濟部跟樹花部將來會跟產業界一起合作因為我們要發展算力光靠政府的這個資源是不夠的將來的產業發展需要一定需要產業也要投入而且投入的這個"},{"start":6686.466,"end":6708.434,"text":"這個幅度會比政府還要大很多會不會要先談一些就是說合作意向書或是備忘錄這個部分這個後續我們開始進行細部的合作的規劃的時候一定會有 一定會簽約的好 那我們後續這個因為台灣現在這部分上有一個Tide AI雲這些計畫可不可以整合在一起"},{"start":6710.067,"end":6724.603,"text":"我們委員講的就是我們主權AI的部分包含我們自主的這個AI模型的規劃研究設計然後應用的部分這個我們現在從國科會"},{"start":6728.032,"end":6754.126,"text":"政府這邊的這個團隊開始我們擴散到我們的這個學界還有產業界有多個這個計畫我們在今年開始啟動那未來就不會只限定是台德我們希望說現在新的這個AI的這個模型設計的方法已經有大幅度的進步一直在進步當中不能只靠政府所以這一部分我們從國防中心開始建立平台鼓勵"},{"start":6754.986,"end":6771.282,"text":"我們包含中央研究院各個大學還有產業界都進來做這個研究你說還有產業界那後面我要講的是國防中心的16PF的超級電腦已經建好了南科沙倫也有資料中心準備啟用那這次輝達的AI超級電腦是不是也會放在這些地方"},{"start":6772.589,"end":6791.224,"text":"是給少數人用還是開放學界產業也可以申請我們所有的資料中心不管它座落在哪裡都是全國全國學界都在使用那有部分我們也跟產業界在合作把我們的學界研究成果應用落地到我們的民間所以會放在哪裡"},{"start":6793.423,"end":6821.198,"text":"揮打這個他已經宣布了跟這個鴻海合作是在高雄高雄好那我想說還是要照顧到學界跟產業啦是那剛剛有問你就是會不會納入像泰德語言模型喔那醫療AI的國防應用我想方式很多種啦那很多可以參考但是我們就希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠各方的系統跟不管是醫療AI國防應用都能夠藉此機會透過揮打來打藥劑"},{"start":6822.839,"end":6851.079,"text":"那這個部分上也希望說一定要盡可能的將台灣的一些資源投入到裡面以後一起升級啊是 這個方向的確是我們在進行的是沒有錯好 根據國科會在行政院的報告到2029年政府希望建置480PF的公共算力加上民間投資總算力要超過1200這個目標很大但我想問這一次跟輝達合作是不是也列進了我們AI建設的藍圖"},{"start":6852.917,"end":6878.778,"text":"我們現在正在修正我們的AI的算力建置的規劃所以將來把民間的投資算進來的話會遠大於我們原來的規劃原來的規劃是只有政府的部分而且現在在算力的建置因為AI的這個比重越來越高了所以現在這個算力的這個我們評估它的這個算力的這個"},{"start":6883.043,"end":6897.392,"text":"現在基本上從今年開始業界已經改變了是用這個耗電量耗能的算法那所以輝達跟鴻海他們宣布的未來在高雄"},{"start":6898.513,"end":6915.005,"text":"可能還會擴散到其他地方它分三期總共會有100MW所以它第一期20MW可能今年就會開始啟動那未來還有兩個階段都是各40MW這是他們宣布的"},{"start":6915.305,"end":6933.901,"text":"所以我們看到他這三期的計畫很龐大啦但是在整個政府的部分上國科會應該要負責協調像是其他經濟部教育部要怎麼對接這些算力的資源國科會可以來幫忙協助嗎是是 這沒問題的確也是我們正在協調當中因為經濟部跟教育部不可能比你還了解啊"},{"start":6934.381,"end":6957.496,"text":"所以我覺得你應該要去協助這個部分好 謝謝羅委員 這個是我們責無旁貸那我們國防中心也的確跟我們民間的業者也積極在進行台灣算力聯盟的這個工作對啊 甚至還有衛福部 國防部啊都會用到 他們都會用到國防部的一個運用嘛所以我說國科會在這樣子的一個部分上是佔有一個非常重要的一個關鍵點"},{"start":6958.777,"end":6980.336,"text":"不只是銜接我們民間的資源,更是要幫忙協助政府這邊的跨部會協助這部分我想予以重任,您可以認同嗎?謝謝羅遠,我們會做這個事好,那接下來我要講就是說,現階段我們看到我們過去國科會推動的Tide AI語言啊繁中的語言模型啊,都是我們在AI領域的重要資產"},{"start":6981.437,"end":7009.171,"text":"但是未來這個輝達的合作案就像我剛剛一直在提到的會不會也幫忙支援Tide的訓練工作這部分上當然我不是說重視Tide而已就像你說的還有其他的可能性但是我們有沒有預算留一些給這些資源給Tide 2 Tide Meet尤其這些模型可能要政府支援要訓練的有沒有這個機制成果回饋國內的一個產業我想這都是我們應該要列入到探討裡面"},{"start":7010.402,"end":7032.665,"text":"對,我們將來如果是學界也在發展,我們業界也在發展,我們希望能夠透過這個產學的合作,讓我們民間在主權AI新模型的這個開發,能夠進步的更快,的確是按照委員的講法的方向在進行,這是沒有問題。"},{"start":7033.866,"end":7056.347,"text":"接下來要講的是說國科會我們要發展更多的AI雲也希望能夠幫助到中小企業接軌AI那之前我們就一直在講就是我們發展的AI雲跟中小企業要的會不會銜接上或者是不接地氣這個都是我們要注意的但是我目前還看不到清楚的使用機制未來算力要怎麼申請公開分配"},{"start":7057.088,"end":7083.565,"text":"有沒有辦法有沒有建立資源的管理平台像是提供申請紀錄成果追蹤確保政府花錢能夠有實質的效益這部分你怎麼看這部分當然我們一定要做就是說將來我們不管是資源學界資源業界我們都需要有一個公平公開的這個做法這個我們公安中心將來所以我希望能夠趕快研擬出來這些相關的機制嘛就是這部分我想提醒你嘛"},{"start":7085.2,"end":7108.542,"text":"這個沒問題 我們國防中心正在發展這個平台那成熟的時候 我們大概今年下半年會公佈這個做法我們這次這樣合作 我要做最後的一個提醒不只是硬體的建制 更關係到未來我們台灣的AI主導權我們要確保技術不會被外商壟斷資料還能夠掌握在台灣手上"},{"start":7109.423,"end":7138.491,"text":"主委針對你說的這個主權AI我覺得這個資料主權技術回饋在地人才的培育國科會一定要有初步的合作框架跟條件的設計這部分上你有準備嗎這個已經準備了我們講主權AI目的就是要自己建我們的算力包含政府跟民間都要建那把我們寶貴的資料留在台灣這是一個很重要的工作"},{"start":7139.558,"end":7156.223,"text":"國科會這幾年推動在跨領域的人才培育AI雲的運用人才的推升以及太的應用擴散等多項的人才相關計畫但從架構來看教育部的高教生跟產學攜手合作的計畫在目標跟訓練內容上高度重疊"},{"start":7157.703,"end":7183.802,"text":"國科會是否曾與教育部能夠建立常設的協調機制釐清資源分配的訓練職能盤點過去計畫的交集以及重複補助的對象以提升整體的效益我們有常設的溝通機制的確是有的那你有沒有發現這些有重複的沒有重複 我跟委員報告那你覺得這個訓練內容有沒有高度重疊"},{"start":7185.808,"end":7203.06,"text":"不是高度重疊,他們一定要一樣百分之百重疊但是主政的範圍不一樣我們需要學校的人力將來要進到產業界進到社會去發揮所以教育部的教學一定要跟我們現在要推動的百光百業"},{"start":7203.92,"end":7225.362,"text":"所以你的意思是在同一條軌道上要同一條軌道但是是不一樣的層級不一樣就是好像交棒一樣可能是在校園內的人才培育然後到產業界的一個銜接就馬上可以應用沒有錯好那目前我們看到這些國科會主導計畫合作對象人大多數集中在台青 交城 陽明 交大等頂階學校"},{"start":7226.623,"end":7233.53,"text":"請問國歌會是否統計過中南部的這個院區啊或者是技職體系的學校來實質參與比例"},{"start":7236.086,"end":7261.64,"text":"我們的確我接任以後這是一個重點我們在研究型的大學我們當然鼓勵這些學者要做前瞻的研究幫我們開發主權AI的模型等等這些研究工作是要仰賴研究型的大學但是其他的大學我們要培養人才是要做各式各樣的應用能夠對社會上所有的AI需求不同的領域我們都要培養人才"},{"start":7262.62,"end":7284.887,"text":"包含這個技職體系還有私立大學所以中南部的技職體系跟大學你有參考哪幾所全部大學只要願意做的我們現在都支持都支持 對好 那台中唯利啦 勤益科大台中科大 嶺東都沒問題 紅光我們都歡迎這些學校來申請 朝陽對 亞洲"},{"start":7287.308,"end":7305.978,"text":"這部分我希望說以台中的部分能夠幫我們多關心是好不好當然你說的是全部啦我們全國都會關心全部都沒關係哪怕是新大或者是其他學校都沒關係我是希望說幫我們中南部的多照顧一下有這些學校提計畫我們現在都會非常的歡迎"},{"start":7306.638,"end":7335.97,"text":"好那以相關的基電整合製造智慧製造的一個專業這些校院區是否被納入培育基地或者是共學實驗場域這個也要等到他們提出申請嗎還是你們有計劃可以考慮推動的時候有一個AI應用的聯盟可以主動去跟他們聯繫呢這個只要體計劃執行單位願意組成這個聯盟我們其實都樂觀所以還是在這個部分上需要他們主動"},{"start":7336.73,"end":7358.928,"text":"是是是 因為這個學術自由 我不能逼哪一個學校做什麼事情但可不可以幫我們把這些相關的計畫 或者是至少行個文告訴他們有這個機會 他們可以來申請 提醒他們其實好好 可以提醒 我們都是公開的我知道我知道 而且有時候公開 畢竟網路上你的網站不一定每個人看嘛沒有沒有 我們也都會發函到各校好 所以你確定你會發函"},{"start":7359.688,"end":7377.614,"text":"全部每個學校都會收到要提醒你喔 好不好好 謝謝那目前部分的TIDE跟AI雲的課程開始導入到業界資源但多數我們的課綱仍由學界主導請問課程的計畫設計是否有制度化引入職人導向的架構由產業的協會龍頭的企業參與整個設計的機制主委"},{"start":7383.466,"end":7411.985,"text":"課程的部分是應該是教育部經濟部 勞動部都有啦這幾個部分其實都有 多聽聽產業啦是是是我剛剛就講了嘛就是說產業的協會龍頭的企業參與設計能夠將整個課綱或者是這些教學的課程能夠設計的更加符合學界跟產業界的一個平衡當然我沒有說一定要只聽某一方但是我覺得整個東西應該是滾動式修正"},{"start":7413.045,"end":7436.133,"text":"這個部分你可以認同嗎這個我認同那你可以幫忙一下嗎我知道因為我也會協調各部會就是包含其實還不只衛福部因為我們希望培育成效的方面國科會可以建立具體的一個追蹤制度我想目前你有掌握捷訓學員一年三年後工作去向跟留台比例嗎你有追蹤嗎"},{"start":7438.319,"end":7462.515,"text":"這一部分是各部會要負擔各部會有沒有追蹤未來可以把我們相關人才培育計畫來提醒各部會要去追蹤趙偉不要一直看我再給我一分鐘拜託再給我一點時間壓力很大但我要講的就是連我們畢業了學校都會打電話問我們我們的職場追蹤那你的未來去向"},{"start":7463.342,"end":7480.263,"text":"那國歌會在對於這些學員上的培育成效是不是應該要去好好的追蹤來瞭解一下你要提醒各部會要幫忙追蹤會規資訊給你們那你們才可以瞭解這整個設計上是不是有變革啊是不是需要在滾動式修正你可不可以認同"},{"start":7481.298,"end":7500.153,"text":"我認同 我們會提醒各部會所以你要去修正嘛 好不好人才培育不是訓練完就結案建立整個縱向的人才資料庫結合學歷 授訓 就業 研究資訊確保這些追蹤能力是否能夠投入國家科技的這個發展主軸這個是我們需要去研究的"},{"start":7500.353,"end":7522.44,"text":"地方中小企業反映他們很難參與國科會大型計畫國科會是否能夠建立在地產學對接機制協助培養對企業人才的一個需求以後媒合幫忙協助這樣子的一個培訓資源這個是我要提是 地方中小企業在地產學對接機制"},{"start":7523.46,"end":7550.939,"text":"國科會有產學合作計畫但是地方中小企業也有經濟部我知道你有這些計畫但是能不能夠接中小企業的更多廣泛的這些應用然後幫他們協助對接這是我們要探討的我現在正在做這個事所以我也邀請希望你加大力度邀請經濟部中小企業署也進來了希望你加大力度商業發展署也進來了那我們看到同樣一個方向但我們希望有具體的成效讓我們知道好 謝謝委員"},{"start":7554.46,"end":7558.802,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢 官員請回座接下來我們有請陳秀寶委員質詢請廣告吳主委有請吳主委備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":7579.523,"end":7608.02,"text":"陳委員好主委好主委從去年五月TED發表之後本席就持續在關心關於TED相關的議題包括資料庫的更新以及後續的推廣等等那去年的七月國客會跟中研院為了持續投入旗艦級TED研發向輝達的AI超級電腦申請的這個算力的應用那想請教主委旗艦級TED跟之前發表的TED有什麼不一樣"},{"start":7610.075,"end":7631.963,"text":"過去我們太子在國會內部我們找這個學界專家來協助發展它是一個示範性的作用也是少量的經費但是我接著以後我就決定要把它擴散擴散就是我們要更多的研究人力進來那現在包含學界已經在增案了更多的這個"},{"start":7633.724,"end":7639.85,"text":"學術研究的這個專家所以是延續之前的態度但是是規模內容更多會更進步那中央研究院其實最近也有蠻好的這個進展他們將來會公佈他們研究的成果那我們也希望說藉由國科會的產學合作也希望產業界也投入投入相關的這個研究"},{"start":7654.344,"end":7665.587,"text":"所以將來一定會發展得更順利那國網中心會建立一個平台這個平台會讓新的我們研究的成果除了TED之外還有其他的模型陸續會掛上來是在外國許多AI都會推出APP讓民眾方便使用"},{"start":7672.469,"end":7690.819,"text":"那在高使用率的這個情況之下可以即時的搜尋網頁做即時的回應其實很多使用者他會習慣使用他使用的很順手他也會建立他的使用的慣用的模式那後續對我們Tide在推廣上就會有一點難度因為他已經習慣使用這樣子的一個APP"},{"start":7692.2,"end":7711.028,"text":"國客會這邊有沒有計畫就是說我們要提供我們的Tide的內容有更具台灣文化的這些相關的資料將Tide打造成適合台灣人使用的這個AI工具報告委員 委員的建議非常好我其實正在提醒我們的國網中心因為現在Tide的這個應用"},{"start":7712.188,"end":7727.256,"text":"平台在觀光中心建立那我也希望觀光中心也發展出讓民眾都可以使用到的Tide的這個應用這個我們觀光中心努力一定在年底之前我要求它一定要完成都可以使用到主要是要說它是好用是順手的"},{"start":7729.497,"end":7750.307,"text":"所以我會希望說我們建制泰德的時候我們要結合更多的台灣的文化特色例如我們台灣的慣用語我們的台語更多台灣的元素甚至我們的風俗習慣讓民眾在使用的時候覺得說這是符合我們使用的而不是我們去遷就他其他使用的這些軟體而且這是軟體是適用於我們我們國安中心張主任你要不要保證一定要好用"},{"start":7759.301,"end":7774.945,"text":"保證我們會把用台灣的元素再放在這些語言模型裡面讓大家覺得好用然後又是有台灣味謝謝您的保證因為其實AIR RUN你是越用越好用因為越多人使用它才會是順手的是是那我們資料就會更多"},{"start":7775.225,"end":7793.755,"text":"我們越多民眾來下載更多產業來運用它的時候我們TiDE的效益會更大更高所以感謝您的保證我也希望說盡量我們加更多的元素就是台灣人的習慣的就是會運用到的這些元素進去的話我們民眾會喜歡的去使用它習慣的去使用它"},{"start":7795.316,"end":7798.818,"text":"好 謝謝陳委員好 謝謝那接下來我想請教主委我們國會會這邊有宣布說為了補足人力的缺口會投入智慧型機器人的研發包括像人型、四角型、四膀型等等而且首先會以智慧醫療及餐飲、旅宿業的應用為主那計畫兩年之內就會有產品可以進入市場來應用我想請教主委"},{"start":7820.151,"end":7825.706,"text":"目前有計劃就是優先的研發哪一種類型的機器人可以最快的投入市場"},{"start":7826.886,"end":7847.597,"text":"好 我們現在臺灣面臨最嚴重的人力短缺的部分可能是在健康照護的產業 旅宿餐飲的產業這些產業的需求 就是民眾的需求會造成我們自己在製造端 在系統設計供應端這邊的產業投入的意願"},{"start":7852.259,"end":7875.106,"text":"我們如果沒有藉助我們自己產業的實力的話我們要自己發展我們的應用的產業是很困難的所以我的策略就是要針對現在台灣最嚴重的我們人力缺乏民眾需求最高的這個產業會先發展所以大概現在設定的目標在健康紮戶以及旅宿餐飲這個會先做那至於其他的學術研究部分是我們完全開放"},{"start":7875.526,"end":7885.757,"text":"在這兩個方面我們關於智慧醫療及旅宿餐飲業我們去設計一個怎樣型態的機器人來服務型都是服務型會跟人接觸的那麼我們也有跟產業來溝通嗎我們是貼近他們的需求的嗎"},{"start":7891.223,"end":7908.079,"text":"有 我們在規劃過程當中就是陸續跟學界跟產業界特別是產業界有兩種一種就是科技的供應端的產業那是台灣最強的我們的製造業那另外一種就是科技需求端的產業就是我們AI要應用到百工百業所有的"},{"start":7908.359,"end":7928.646,"text":"本集的意思就是說我們去研發這個機器人提供給我們這樣的產業來使用的時候要是符合他們需求的方向要符合需求這是最重要的沒有錯那國科會這邊也預計在國研院下面要設置機器人研究中心將以研究人工智慧為主那麼機器人本體的部分是由工研院來進行研發嗎"},{"start":7930.626,"end":7955.061,"text":"工研院跟國研院都會研發 國研院就是要連結學界 工研院就是要連結產業界那機器人研究中心的設置的規劃是怎麼樣規劃 會 設置 研究中心的設置我們會利用工研院在南部的院區 南分院它就是在台南的六甲 在烏山頭水庫旁邊它有既有的基地 所以我們就不必再發"},{"start":7956.082,"end":7966.267,"text":"是本來就有個基地在那邊本來就有在那個地方建立這個研究的團隊跟產業界一起一起設計未來的產品然後製造基地經濟部也下來協助那經濟部現在正在規劃一個智慧機器人的產業園區"},{"start":7973.45,"end":7993.361,"text":"主任因為最近就是人力荒各個產業尤其像醫護最近也爆很多出走潮那在本席的選區有很多傳統產業不同類型的工業也都有人力荒那國客會這次機器人的研發雖然你們是以智慧醫療及旅宿餐飲為主也希望說陸續我們要針對工業這方面來研發機器人希望說國客會跟經濟部這邊要多於產業溝通因為傳產其實這個人力缺一直讓"},{"start":8004.026,"end":8027.895,"text":"這個產業都非常煩惱很緊張那如果說我們可以盡快的跟產業來了解那我們研發可以舒緩這相關人力缺工壓力的這樣子的機器人這也是產業的福音所以也希望說我們說兩年之內我們這個機器人就會進入市場來應用這個希望可以很快有好消息而且得到好的回饋那我們來發展各種的機器人來協助產業"},{"start":8029.756,"end":8042.248,"text":"好那接下來我要請教主委是說黃能勳先生來台演講的時候有提到說會跟國科會這邊合作AI基礎設施那想請教主委針對合作的內容到目前我們有沒有討論規劃出一個比較具體的範圍或是項目"},{"start":8046.891,"end":8071.659,"text":"我們還沒有具體的項目但範圍大致了解範圍就是說輝達跟鴻海他們會合作建立非常大的資料中心超級電腦的算力這個算力的目的他們宣布的一個名詞叫做AI Factory就是AI的工廠它的工廠不是指的硬體製造它是要把AI各種各樣的應用的軟體要開發出來"},{"start":8075.86,"end":8101.914,"text":"讓各行各業都可以使用AI我們國科會跟他合作主要就是在將來可能會推動智慧程式各種各樣的應用結合學界力量跟產業界力量一起來開發來滿足未來應用的需求這個需求也會搭配剛剛提到的我們機器人的產業因為將來要有硬體還要有AI就是我們要發展"},{"start":8103.995,"end":8128.584,"text":"機器要使用的智慧就是大腦相關的東西會包含晶片也包含軟體也包含控制的部分就是小腦的部分在中部特別強的就是控制的部分在北部特別強的就是晶片的產業跟南部系統的設計整合會結合在一起所以我們整個台灣都會一起來發展相關的產業"},{"start":8130.725,"end":8134.747,"text":"好那另外針對黃榮勳先生他有發表說對AI機器人的想法跟展望其實我們隔空會這邊也發表了智慧機器人的計畫那科學園區也新增了3000公頃的這個園區用地那這個部分我們是要為了佈局配合機器人計畫還是要用於跟輝達合作的這個AI基礎設施"},{"start":8150.856,"end":8171.368,"text":"其實兩個都會有需要因為這是兩個都會用到半導體非常先進的半導體那這個半導體現在我們最強的就是台灣的先進製程製造的這個半導體產業它是台積電帶頭整個供應鏈我們在這個供應鏈國產自由的比例也越來越重所以我們現在對這個未來產業的需求對於我們國家的這個經濟的發展"},{"start":8176.631,"end":8199.988,"text":"我們國家安全的保障等等都非常重要那我們希望說把未來這個到2050年這個產業發展的這個需求先把它規劃起來先期規劃的好處是說我可以有足夠的時間把我們的生態保育把我們的社區文化的這個維持都能夠在我們在未來科學研究的發展當中同時都把它納進來讓民眾可以減低民眾的疑慮因為"},{"start":8206.432,"end":8216.862,"text":"園區的開發是要讓大家生活更好所以不是只有工廠經濟面而已而是要把文化的保持生態的保持做得更好這種新型態的園區開發我們就用大範圍但是低密度的這種開發"},{"start":8223.149,"end":8225.751,"text":"來發展未來的新的園區謝謝主委你們這邊是考慮到很周詳喔那另外我要請教說因為現在在教育界我們昨天教育我們也討論了這個問題就是關於川普政府暫停學生簽證的這個面試"},{"start":8239.787,"end":8256.109,"text":"那么如果未来川普政府他这种美国制造的思维主问您觉得说未来美国政府会不会禁止美国人才外出就是说如果以后美国相关高科技人才将也留在美国为主您觉得说对台湾或者对国际间会不会造成怎样的影响"},{"start":8258.025,"end":8280.121,"text":"我相信美国政府可能有时候有一些个案我没有办法评论但是整体来讲美国是一个非常创新的国家我相信这种个案其实不会是全面性的会发生美国从它的历史上看起来也是非常"},{"start":8280.982,"end":8294.188,"text":"非常仰賴他的移民各個年代的移民對美國的創新跟他的經濟發展有非常大的貢獻主委您的意思是說應該不至於發生這樣的狀況但是其實本席要強調就是說其實我們國際相關的科技產業的局勢其實變化萬千"},{"start":8299.971,"end":8323.516,"text":"有時候一個想法一句話一個決定可能就會馬上會顛覆我們原來合作的相關的模式那我希望說國會會你們作為主要支持我們基礎科研的這個部會以及我們是引領整個科技發展的這個方針的領頭羊我們對隨時注意這個國際上局勢的變化我們也必須可以隨時做出反應我們守護科技也要守護人才"},{"start":8324.416,"end":8339.524,"text":"謝謝委員提醒對於我們自己在海外的留學生我們也都有機制也會來協助他們協助他們要轉還是要回來有好的機會讓他們發展這個我們都會注意謝謝委員謝謝主席謝謝陳秀寶委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來休息五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":8351.971,"end":8381.8,"text":"誒"},{"start":8652.605,"end":8654.668,"text":"好 謝謝 我們繼續開會接下來我們有請張雅琳委員質詢我們有請主委有請吳主委備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":8670.543,"end":8684.814,"text":"主委想要首先請教有關於低軌衛星的問題就是在去年10月14號的時候行政院開了一個SRB的會議我們就有提到說國客會將會著手進行次世代通訊發展方案"},{"start":8685.815,"end":8704.173,"text":"来为技术和创新呢与市场应用奠定坚实的基础那在5月17号的时候我也看到新闻的报道主委表示说我们已经提出了相关的草案而且呢正在跟亚马逊旗下的网络卫星系统Kyper正在洽谈合作中这项洽谈呢已经得到了美国政府的一个许可哦"},{"start":8705.356,"end":8719.32,"text":"那未來將會透過台灣一個比較強的一個製造實力來跟協助美國業者得到更容易取得高品質的不管是衛星、地面站、終端設備等等那我們可以在這個合作中取到三個我覺得蠻關鍵的東西就是第一個通訊衛星營運的服務"},{"start":8722.021,"end":8740.99,"text":"來以利台灣佈局新系第三呢保證我們的通訊韌性那在其實相關多的發言裡面我都看到說組委裡面很強調就是說資訊這個會對我們的智慧城市物聯網應用行動通訊產業扮演關鍵的小角色所以我們必須要持續地來投入"},{"start":8741.63,"end":8751.047,"text":"但我自己覺得這個看起來應該不是只有提升產業而已應該還涉及到了我們這個所謂的國安議題"},{"start":8753.585,"end":8773.422,"text":"那我想請教一下我們現在在跟Kyper談的時候我們有沒有掌握我們平時跟戰時或是災難時的一個通訊容量的需求呢這樣子我們才能夠去確保說當我們遇到重大的災難或是戰爭斷網的時候我們需要多少的頻寬才能維持我們一個救災啦或是一些關鍵基礎設施的通訊我們有沒有掌握"},{"start":8774.502,"end":8802.128,"text":"報告委員我們現在跟開普在談的公開的這些合作其實並沒有牽涉到比較敏感的那個國安需求我們在國安需求的部分目前是總統府國安會有規劃當中那我們太空中心也在協助那將來開普會不會是其中的一部分現在還不確定但是我們要談的主要是針對產業發展這是我們在公開的太空計畫"},{"start":8803.488,"end":8818.764,"text":"修正案裡面我們是在去年十月的SRV就是邀請產業界進來就做這個事所以目前國科會負責就是在產業端的部分 對嗎好 那沒關係 那我繼續請教一下就是說我想就是說我們 我有看到就是在"},{"start":8819.424,"end":8847.127,"text":"這個新聞裡面主委也有提到說我們要自主研發B5G衛星才2加4的策略由太空中心研發2顆民間研發4顆第一顆預計在2027年發射我認為這是一個很好開始但是我想確認一件事情就是到底6顆夠不夠因為根據太空中心的估計至少要120顆才能夠確保我們24小時的通訊不間斷所以我們6顆到底夠不夠第二個問題是我們有沒有一個中長期的衛星通訊計畫"},{"start":8848.601,"end":8874.923,"text":"有 我們規劃的就是說如果我們自主的衛星是要做科研用途那我們掌握衛星的設計跟製造的能力的話我們就有實力跟國際的這個新系的大廠合作然後我們台灣的產業就會進來因為才有量如果我們自主的發射的衛星不管是幾十顆 一百多顆要花非常非常多的錢是會排擠到我們很多其他經費可是呢 還是不夠"},{"start":8875.803,"end":8903.481,"text":"也真正要完整的星系要非常的多那美國政府也沒有自己做所以都是產業發展產業發展以後我們只要安全符合我們的需求我們都可以跟它合作所以將來我們可以使用的衛星是它整個星系我們都可以使用所以我們是有一個中長期的計畫應該會不止是六顆因為剛前面其實一開始你在這個說法也有提到說我們跟美國其實有在談我們雙方怎麼來合作對不對所以未來我們一個中長期的計畫對嗎"},{"start":8904.922,"end":8930.877,"text":"對 有專門企劃就是會跟他們合作合作包含租用他的衛星或頻段那如果是我們比較屬於要政府的服務的部分我們保證是一定有這個能力的然後在接下來就是商用的部分他們也要做台灣的生意他們也需要台灣的供應鏈那合作起來以後我們可以使用到他完整的這個信息所以我們更有保障所以我們目標是要在我們有目標要達成多少顆嗎在什麼時間點嗎 有這些目標嗎"},{"start":8933.018,"end":8952.037,"text":"我們的目標現在是六棵但是中長期計畫的目標是中長期計畫就是我們如果跟因為我們的這個三期現在那個延到2031嘛2031之後我們現在還沒有完全確定就是我們跟他開始合作以後我們如果規劃下一期的"},{"start":8952.995,"end":8967.696,"text":"好了解那我想我關於這聽起來有點像是主權我們也會打造自己的主權心系對不對自主的這個衛星的使用這個是屬於還是在國家比較機密的範圍好沒問題這個我不方便在這邊好沒問題好了解"},{"start":8968.557,"end":8993.447,"text":"那在下一個問題我想請教有關於前陣子我們陽管處有個大火這個大火就把我們燒了五個小時四點多公頃的生態區變成了焦土甚至波及了我們周邊北投萬里帶的空氣品質後來發現起火點是在國研院在陽明山設置的一個空氣品質感測器疑似離電池自然引發火災"},{"start":8994.867,"end":9010.203,"text":"所以我想我這邊看到說我們4月底其實拆掉了全台16組相同的一個感測器那我知道主委其實24號也自己去敞刊事發地點我想問一下這件事情是否已經完成調查確定是離電池自燃嗎"},{"start":9012.605,"end":9023.831,"text":"我們還沒有收到最後的結果但是跟消防局溝通聯絡他們初步的證據是從設備的鋰電池初步的證據那何時會有完整的報告呢?有預估嗎?"},{"start":9032.296,"end":9056.474,"text":"完整報告可能要看看六月有沒有辦法得到那個台北市消防局那邊確定的這個結果因為他還在調查還在約談廠商之類的好沒關係那我想請問一下因為據我所知好像你們現在其實有針對於高敏感區做一些清查跟盤列我們動作很快的那我想問一下我們現在有沒有定一些相關的風險管理的安全指引"},{"start":9056.914,"end":9079.453,"text":"有 現在是比較危險的就是鋰電池它在惡劣的環境之下比較容易極端氣候 惡劣是指極端氣候嗎 還是怎樣叫惡劣包含那個空氣 因為小約克那邊有腐蝕性的空氣那設備那個鋰電池滲漏等等引起的這個火災像這些東西事先我們沒有注意到"},{"start":9080.254,"end":9102.036,"text":"那接下來我們國務院現在都已經有一個完整的這個SOP修改過了對於這種設備在各種惡劣的環境之下要能夠承受多少的這個壓力那在裝置的環境之間有沒有可能造成更大危害好 我要解了這個等於是說我們其實現在已經做出了一個安全的指引面對不同的環境之下的一個應對方法"},{"start":9103.457,"end":9124.458,"text":"我想再問第三個問題就是陽管器的感測器其實在2024年底就已經計畫期滿可是都還沒有放就是還放在那裡沒有拆除是否有管理與監督的一個漏洞呢報告委員計畫中止其實並不代表那個設備不能用了因為他還繼續在收資料還提供給我們很多研究資料"},{"start":9127.1,"end":9153.268,"text":"所以計劃期滿到底是持續的計劃期滿之後你剛才還會繼續收資料可是維護的部分還會持續維護嗎因為這就牽扯到安全的問題這個的確是一個缺失可是你知道我們台灣人都很節儉節儉可是因為這會造成因為我們設備沒有去管理跟監督跟維護的時候就會造成今天這樣子的一個問題今天發生這個事情我們當然所有的程序我們都會修正"},{"start":9153.908,"end":9164.588,"text":"好 没关系因为我时间有限这一题我们再约时间来了解它后续我们到底会如何来解决面对这样子的问题但我想再问一个问题就是说"},{"start":9166.109,"end":9184.993,"text":"那這樣子我們把這個拆掉對不對因為我們本來還要收資料可是我們全部都拆了那又是基於什麼樣子的標準與風險評估呢會不會對我們的空氣的資料收集造成影響我們等調查確定結束以後我們當然還會再持續收資料因為這個對民眾安全非常重要對現在拆掉了所以不能裝因為還在調查調查結束以後我們會用一個最安全的方法"},{"start":9192.175,"end":9219.021,"text":"再啟動相關計畫那確保這個事情不要再發生這樣好 了解了解那我最後再請教一個問題就是有關於最近這個美國政府已經有發布了就是我們的哈佛大學招收國際生的資格被取消因為他們被控訴助長暴力而且反猶太而且與中國共產黨勾結所以呢他們會喪失合法的身份可是現在大概哈佛有6800名國際學生"},{"start":9221.081,"end":9236.071,"text":"所以這些學生目前就沒有辦法去那邊深造那現在其實很多的國家都已經把握了這個機會像是日本的文科學省就已經有呼籲國內的大學要來接收這些受影響的哈佛國際生"},{"start":9237.688,"end":9254.756,"text":"那東京大學啊 金路大學也其實都有在回應這件事情那我想問一下 我們準備好了要來搶這一批學生了嗎因為我們其實也有一些相關的計畫嘛要來招收國際的優秀的 不管是學生也好 研究者那我們目前有沒有一些具體的方案來吸引他們呢"},{"start":9255.579,"end":9277.733,"text":"其實我們過去在COVID-19的時期我們台灣幾個大學也都是很積極做類似的事情國科會絕對會支持只要我們的大學願意來接收我想的其實是國科會自己其實有一個外籍高階人才來台實習的試辦專案以前都會提供數百名的外國大學生研究生來台灣做一個短期的研究機會"},{"start":9278.974,"end":9290.801,"text":"那我們是不是可以透過這個機會呢 增加名額啦 增加經費啦 吸引他們可以來然後我們這邊留下來 未來也可以留在我們這邊變成科研人才啊好 這個是很好 我請李處長 科科處李處長跟委員報告 這個IEPP呢 它本身是一個月到三個月的短期的時間所以我們也會從這裡面去檢討看看"},{"start":9301.556,"end":9326.81,"text":"是有可行的嗎?你覺得?可行就是說更長期的我們都願意做啦更長期,所以我們是有可能在延長嘛對不對我們要趕快把這個對,因為我想這個都是優秀人才本來要去哈佛大學的耶,對不對我們要好好把握啊而且對我們的半導體AI生技都會非常有幫助當然這些學生都是很好的學生我們當然也會跟教育部來合作啦因為即使是要念學位我也希望各大學能夠放寬甚至名額能夠邀請他們過來"},{"start":9331.072,"end":9349.721,"text":"了解 那我們進一步再來跟國科會這邊來追蹤好不好那最後再用一分鐘時間就好一分鐘就是其實我們的科普活動上次我們去年在審預算的時候其實有提到說我們希望可以把台灣台語或其他國家語言放到我們的科普活動裡面不管是我們的科普列車也好"},{"start":9350.601,"end":9366.252,"text":"因為我認為國科會還是可以依據國家語言發展法來支持可是你們跟我們的回應是說你們有做中文跟英文啦可是我們講的其實是台灣台語好像有點牛頭不對馬嘴啦所以我想問一下這部分是不是可行因為我覺得國科會很有機會啊你們都為了視障者做了這樣子的書籍嘛對不對"},{"start":9366.852,"end":9389.511,"text":"非常感謝委員提醒我想我們在各種地區的語言盡量我們也可以融入那除了這個科普你今年的活動有沒有可能可以融入因為其實有很多母語家庭來講他們其實想要了解這些科學知識我來鼓勵我們理事長按照委員的這個建議好那我們再跟理事長要詳細的活動內容好不好好謝謝喔好謝謝委員"},{"start":9392.848,"end":9399.59,"text":"謝謝張雅琳委員質詢部會官員請回座謝謝接下來有請郭玉琴委員質詢謝謝主席有請主委有請主委被質詢謝謝郭委員好"},{"start":9414.642,"end":9441.089,"text":"主委早安因為剛剛其實都有聽到大家對於這個小油坑的火災其實是非常非常的關注那同樣的我也是要來問這一題這是4月14號發生的這件意外那當然這個火勢呢歷時了大概是5個小時之後才撲滅那影響的面積大概有4.5公頃以上那我想這個主委也非常的關心在這裡也非常肯定就是主委在第一時間其實也到了這個現場去做這樣子的一個"},{"start":9443.37,"end":9450.194,"text":"現場的一個狀況的了解那我知道這個國科會轄下的一個跟這個國研院的國網中心設置的空氣品質感測器離電池過熱這個事件其實是相關的那我們在4月底之前也已經完成了大概有16處就是相關的這個離電池的感測器的一個全面的一個拆除那當然也"},{"start":9470.047,"end":9484.842,"text":"特別針對這一類的這樣子的一個設置也進行了一個盤點的工作那當然也非常的肯定你們這個態度其實很積極但是我想在整個所有的不管是災後的環境的一個變化"},{"start":9485.522,"end":9510.273,"text":"那尤其是這個地面的面積的它是影響到比方說植批的一個損毀或者是空氣品質的一個落差那有沒有考慮這個建構災後環境的一個感測系統以供之後可能早期可以預警或者是生態回復的一個規劃來做使用那或者是在這個部分我們有沒有眼裡中的一個管理的指引的一個草案那目前的進度又是如何"},{"start":9511.257,"end":9534.147,"text":"好 我們已經初步把各種監測的設備它要建置的時候它的規範有重新再檢視我們會讓未來建置的這個監測站它會更安全我們現在已經禁止使用鋰電池了因為鋰電池是比較危險的它在惡劣的天候狀況之下比較容易出狀況"},{"start":9538.569,"end":9564.928,"text":"整個建制的SOP 我們全部重新全面檢討所以不只國運院 我們所有的法人機構我們也都請他們重新檢視只要是做各種各樣的建制設備的工作要求廠商一定要follow我們新修改的SOP安全是最重要的一個條件"},{"start":9566.329,"end":9576.135,"text":"所以我剛剛講就是有沒有建構就是災後之後的環境的一個評估啦就是作為之後可能在這個預警的部分能夠作為一些參考或者是說我們的災後整個包含這個生態怎麼樣的回復的一個規劃來做有這樣子的一個系統的設計嗎"},{"start":9583.319,"end":9606.209,"text":"預警的部分我們目前是比較缺乏但是未來因為我們過去只是注重資料的收集環境資料的收集那至於這個設備有一些老舊可能會出現問題的這種預警那當然它的成本會比較高但是我想委員這個是一個很好建議我希望後來未來我們可以把它加入"},{"start":9607.029,"end":9625.435,"text":"至於災後現在在復原的部分我們第一天就跟陽明山國家公園管理處已經有一個非常明確的意願來協助未來復原的工作我們也邀請中興大學的教授也進來幫忙這種復原的工作現在在進行當中"},{"start":9630.036,"end":9656.716,"text":"可是陽廣處跟我們講說其實我們陽明山草山建築還有芒草它的根部其實並沒有被燒掉它生命力非常強我去看的時候的確新芽都冒出來了現在春雨開始進來以後我想它應該在一年內可以回復所以這個隨時就是把這次的火災的區域等於也是納入了國科會當中的天然災害的一個監測的系統"},{"start":9658.057,"end":9674.391,"text":"對 一個研究算是一個研究的案子所以也納入了你們在研究的一個系統也納入了那之後如果有什麼樣的一個精神再麻煩提供給我們好 謝謝委員那另外我想到就是這次的這個國科會的預算我們解凍案等一下也會處理那有22案"},{"start":9676.633,"end":9690.046,"text":"那當然其中這個17案是提出這個書面報告那另外的5案呢需要這個專案的報告那針對這個專報當中的一個4案其實國科會跟這個新竹中部以及南部的三個科學園區共編了大概是5億元的這個業務"},{"start":9691.907,"end":9712.762,"text":"那遭到凍結是百分之三十那我想另外還有這個特別費的部分是一百一十七萬是全數凍結那凍結的理由是對才化法的修法影響說明不足以及臉書的這個發言沒有提供佐證那同樣的也包含這個業務的效益沒有符合預期還有資訊揭露不足等等的一個疑慮"},{"start":9713.803,"end":9717.524,"text":"雖然新竹竹科在113年的營業額高達了1.5兆南科更是突破了2.2兆年增將近40%即使我們的業績很亮眼但是還是被質疑就是膨脹過快然後沒有能夠精實地來做檢討我想問的就是今年年初其實已經刪裂了大概有6%"},{"start":9737.068,"end":9748.902,"text":"那另外這30%的業務費如果沒有解凍的話我們對於國科會還有我們旗下的三大科學園區的管理的業務有沒有進行的這個應該說是至愛難行之處請主委說明一下其實"},{"start":9753.247,"end":9776.693,"text":"很多人可能會用這個金額或是他的比例來算但是業務費現在是很多是不能留用的不能流入那甚至人事會人事會其實我們現在公務員的聘任有時候是聘人要補退休的人力都很困難所以有時候我們人事會會有一點節餘那以這個理由來說我們經費過剩這個其實是也"},{"start":9782.395,"end":9803.066,"text":"也是很不公平的從主委的談話的節奏我們已經感受到摯愛難行是不是我是很拜託我們委員會能夠同意讓我們全數解凍因為業務費如果不足的話就好像你空有能力沒有武器可以做事情"},{"start":9803.886,"end":9831.56,"text":"那這是對我們是相當為難而且這些業務都很重要特別對園區我們園區剛剛委員提到我們園區的這個業績非常非常成長非常快那我們服務的人力是一直不斷要增加那業務的支出一定是要提升的真的不是只有像表面上就是金額的凍結其實還有很多的人力的部分還有包含我們的人才的培育的部分另外還有很多的甚至連水電可能都會有一些狀況都會有影響好 這個我們了解那等一下"},{"start":9832.32,"end":9859.46,"text":"我相信這個等一下其實可以請主委等一下再好好說明因為時間的關係我先問下一題好謝謝委員我想這個今年三月其實我就已經執行過這個國科會了就是我們針對所謂的低軌衛星的推動的一個進度也提出了我的看法跟關切我想2023年馬祖電纜的中斷地方幾乎是真的與世隔絕那也凸顯了我們在通訊基本的基礎的設施當中的一個高度的一個脆弱"},{"start":9860.08,"end":9880.279,"text":"那根據這個監察院的一個報告他說過去的五年當中其實總共發生了36起的海嵐受損的一個事故那在2025年的前兩個月就已經出現了四起那也就是相對來說衛星似乎已經被視為台灣對外通訊的一個最後一道的防線了"},{"start":9880.819,"end":9909.697,"text":"那我想要請教主委的是這個目前我們的福衛8號跟我們的這個B5G的低軌的衛星相關的時程是不是會如期的進行那另外我想問的是如果當海纜受損或者是通訊中斷的時候那我們的OneWeb通訊的一個能力有沒有辦法能夠支撐像是國內防災或者是醫療甚至金融上面一些關鍵的基礎設施的一個緊急的需求這個部分請教主委"},{"start":9909.977,"end":9924.635,"text":"好 謝謝委員我們規劃當中要發射的包含福威八號今年十月發射目前是按計畫在進行是那會如期嗎會如期十月十月OK那未來"},{"start":9926.056,"end":9952.295,"text":"5月8號未來每年一顆的規劃現在也是正常在運作當中至於我們第一顆的這個通訊衛星就是我們V5G的通訊衛星現在正在設計當中預計兩年後就是2027年會發射第一顆我們希望這個是按照這個規劃去進行至於剛剛委員提到說在緊急狀況的通訊的認識這一部分我們"},{"start":9954.697,"end":9978.913,"text":"國安會跟這個事務部也在有一個這個規劃在進行當中這個規劃現在中華電信也已經跟這個一家美國公司也簽約了就是這個公司可以提供高軌那個同步衛星來在緊急狀況之下提供我們足夠的政府要使用的這些品官從明年開始今年還是仰賴這個國安會"},{"start":9983.516,"end":9997.95,"text":"好 那最後一個問題就是目前我們台灣的低軌的通訊其實明顯是依賴這個OneWeb跟我們的Starlink那這個國客會是不是有評估過對於所謂的台灣國家主權的一個通信安全的一個風險這個部分有考慮嗎"},{"start":10000.525,"end":10018.717,"text":"國會的任務就是科技研發所以我們太空中心在太空三期所要做的事情我們是依計畫在進行當中我現在也剛剛宣布一個次世代通信的方案就是結合我們的產業發展未來我們產業實力上來以後我們會更有實力跟國際的夥伴來談談這個整個新系的使用我們將來使用的頻寬會依照我們的需求一定會足夠的"},{"start":10028.644,"end":10048.979,"text":"那我認為我們的產業發展現在非常迅速一定有實力來競逐太空賴總統講的競逐太空就是因為我們產業的實力才有辦法所以我們正在朝這個方向在努力那我們也期待喔那如果有更新的一些比較具體的一些計畫或進程可以提供給我們的我想可以提供的再提供給我們好謝謝主委 謝謝主席"},{"start":10053.708,"end":10057.752,"text":"謝謝郭育晴委員質詢 官員請回座接下來我們有請伍麗華委員質詢謝謝主席 有請主委有請主委備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":10074.513,"end":10094.88,"text":"主委好我其實跟這個太空發展法對我來講有一段故事蠻有感情那最主要是因為我在2020年2月1號進入到立法院我人生中第一次接受人民陳情是南田火箭案"},{"start":10095.8,"end":10123.426,"text":"所以我在2月19號的時候特別去跟他們見面我很驚訝我以為他們部落反對這個東西結果沒有想到部落的村長理事長部落會議主席甚至是鄉長議員他們都非常非常的贊同他們希望他們能夠擁有這個產業所以呢我人生中隔天第一次做"},{"start":10124.466,"end":10152.357,"text":"部會的協調也是為了南田火箭案甚至我人生第一次上質詢台第一次的質詢也是對科技部所以那個時候我認為要解決這個問題就必須要找到主管機關那所以當時呢就是希望科技部來做主管機關那後來呢就推動這個法制那為什麼我要特別這樣講因為我發現"},{"start":10153.837,"end":10175.668,"text":"我們在做這件事情的時候我們通常都會使用到原住民族的傳統領域他的土地所以可能很多時候我們不會不太知道我們有一些法令或者是要如何跟在地族人溝通我舉個例子當時的三月你們公告了一個"},{"start":10176.909,"end":10190.596,"text":"短期科研探空火箭發射場域的安全規範草案引起嘩然為什麼 因為你們沒有做部落智商那當地人呢 就非常的不高興"},{"start":10192.162,"end":10208.629,"text":"第二個當時也有一個影片在地方在傳就是某個立委他做了一個影片告訴大家說火箭有多可怕世界各個國家發展火箭有多可怕獨獨影片裡面就沒有中國"},{"start":10209.989,"end":10237.297,"text":"那我也幫助你們到地方讓他們知道不同類型的火箭長怎麼樣原來科研火箭沒那麼可怕所以呢也很謝謝你們就是最後我們在地的溝通做好了大家也很高興讓旭海成為我們科研火箭的發射場域那我現在為什麼要特別講因為當年我就有在立法的過程中特別去訴求"},{"start":10238.657,"end":10257.317,"text":"當時的院版第八條說涉及原住民族權益依原基法及相關法令辦理我當時有特別提醒不是只有原住民的問題而是在地居民我們不論到哪裡在地居民本來就應該要知情要參與所以我的版本"},{"start":10257.737,"end":10266.402,"text":"有特別提到 如果有限制人民權利 應事先說明及溝通 踐行充分民眾參與機制那非常感謝 後來我們的發射場域的這個執法有特別在第四條有去做這樣的一個修訂 就是要公告選址場址 舉辦公聽會"},{"start":10279.449,"end":10298.082,"text":"還要來書面通知除了機關團體還有利害關係人到場那我很感謝那當時第二個訴求就是在地產業的部分你們的願板當時是寫說政府應推動太空產業發展獎勵及輔導產業培育產業人才等促進太空產業發展事項我當時有特別提醒"},{"start":10305.819,"end":10329.47,"text":"不是只有培育這些產業人才要跟地方共融所以呢我希望像我的版本說要完善產業及周邊環境的發展所需要的基礎建設要僱用一定比例的在地人力要有地方產業鏈的營造在地產業生活圈那我也非常感謝後來的太空發展法第14條也有把這樣的意見納入到我們的條文當中好 那"},{"start":10334.412,"end":10361.786,"text":"我要跟主委還有太空中心主任說我今天之所以會講這個問題是因為在我們今天的解凍報告也有提到第一案我們已經在114年今年的3月26日選址作業的第四次審查會議已經確認也公佈了國家發射場域選定在屏東縣滿洲鄉的九鵬村可是我們來看一下這個地圖這個地圖"},{"start":10364.187,"end":10390.637,"text":"我們看一下 我們的國家發射場域滿洲鄉九棚村就在它的旁邊有一個高氏部落 它是屬於牡丹鄉有一個巴搖部落 它是屬於牡丹跟滿洲鄉的交界但是呢 它也是屬於滿洲鄉好 那我們再看另外一張地圖再放大一點看 它鄰近的部落還有科研火箭發射場域 蓄海"},{"start":10391.357,"end":10415.975,"text":"然後呢 再往前走 也是你們這次選址之一就是達仁鄉的南田你看 他們其實都在一個連帶上面是一個共同的生活圈可是 我們來看喔最近 我不知道主委跟太空中心主任有沒有掌握到地方有聲音囉在5月16號 有一個地方的青年意見領袖他寫了一篇貼文"},{"start":10419.577,"end":10445.819,"text":"那他說什麼呢 他說其實關於太空發射場域在我家附近的八瑤灣火箭發射基地喔他沒有講九棚發射基地喔 他講的是八瑤灣發射基地因為那個地方確實就是八瑤部落的出海口 八瑤灣"},{"start":10447.34,"end":10475.897,"text":"然後他說我不排斥地方的發展但我更重視地方協調與尊重所以他說火箭燃料會不會造成我們巴搖部落的空污我不知道部落賴以為生的紅土系河流火箭廠排出的廢水會不會影響這些魚蝦蟹回遊部落我不知道當火箭升空是正常航行嗎會不會掉落下來或失速掉到我的部落我不知道"},{"start":10476.377,"end":10502.688,"text":"我們在這場火箭場競賽的過程中我的部落扮演什麼角色我們也不知道所以地方是不知道 不知道 不知道但是他不是要阻礙產業發展他只是覺得說為什麼都沒有人跟我們講那這個問題發生在什麼呢因為我們看到園民會在3月11號有回函給牡丹鄉公所因為牡丹鄉公所他想問"},{"start":10504.312,"end":10530.697,"text":"到底這個有沒有涵蓋到我們牡丹鄉這個國家發射場域但是原民會回答他說這件事要由滿洲鄉確認因為我們是選定在九棚所以要由滿洲鄉確認現在牡丹鄉就回函給牡丹的代表會因為是地方的代表們想知道這件事所以他就把原民會的回答說原民會回答我們說這件事要問滿洲鄉代表會"},{"start":10532.597,"end":10547.177,"text":"那滿洲鄉有沒有問呢滿洲鄉也有問他問誰呢他問的是園民會園民會回答他說不用因為你們九棚不是原住民的部落所以不用所以一整個事情其實我只是要提醒"},{"start":10548.194,"end":10565.642,"text":"在地的溝通還是要充分做好那第二個就是我關心的從南田到旭海然後一直到現在的九棚它的附近八瑤高市那這些他們都是比鄰近的部落"},{"start":10566.562,"end":10582.342,"text":"他們 我們國科會有沒有太空產業生活圈的想像規劃那未來我們的太空產業鏈有南科 有平科到底到了我們那個地方是什麼樣的一個關係部落都很想知道"},{"start":10582.802,"end":10608.492,"text":"所以今天來這邊就是要特別的提醒是不是在地溝通的部分我們還是要來進行然後太空產業生活圈它目前的規劃情形還是要來說明所以我希望國科會 太空中心 園民會有沒有辦法就地方所關心的這些事情能夠來我們辦公室說明那當然我們更關心的是太空發展法有了它的未來"},{"start":10610.185,"end":10633.865,"text":"那我們剛剛也聽到就是大家很關心像40年前美國總統雷根他提到的太空站用衛星去摧毀衛星那現在已經變成一個真實的戰場那我們也很清楚知道地面上的世界越來越依賴太空中的軌道衛星所以我們很關心我們的太空發展法很關心我們的國家發射場域那未來"},{"start":10634.545,"end":10660.214,"text":"正規的戰爭開打之前的灰色地帶就是干擾或摧毀通訊那我是希望說台灣的太空計畫要尋求跟美國這一些太空強權要形成一個衛星通訊的互保機制那這些都是我們非常關心的但是萬戰高樓平地起我相信跟我們在地的溝通這個部分會影響我們未來整個太空的一個發展"},{"start":10664.095,"end":10692.104,"text":"那主委還有我們主任有在這邊有沒有一點點回應就可以好謝謝吳委員我想我們從頭到尾都是用非常開放的態度跟在地在溝通那因為依據這個屏東縣政府跟台東縣政府他們的這個要求我們所有的每一件事都做到了那吳委員現在提出來就是說我們還要再擴大跟這個鄰近的這個部落來溝通這一點我也答應謝謝主委"},{"start":10693.004,"end":10711.249,"text":"後續一定會辦到謝謝主委的建議至於這個發展照顧到這個生活圈在地適合的這種產業的發展這個其實本來就在我的規劃當中那各種各樣的建設以及產業的推動一定會按照這個委員的建議來進行謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝武力華委員質詢 歡迎請回座接下來有請林怡瑾召委質詢"},{"start":10727.474,"end":10732.484,"text":"謝謝主席 有請吳主委還有太空中心太空阿伯吳主任好 請吳主委吳主任備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":10741.151,"end":10756.899,"text":"主委好首先本席因為今天是處理解凍案所以本席還是要對於去年藍白提案大動我們各科學園區的預算業務費的這件事情表示最深的遺憾"},{"start":10757.739,"end":10764.866,"text":"因為科學園區的業務費我們都很清楚是它是直接 間接影響我們園區裡頭的廠商尤其是這個設備養護這種項目更是攸關這個關鍵設施的正常運作那"},{"start":10773.274,"end":10799.888,"text":"而且這是科學園區的這個凍結案去年國民黨在提案單上複製貼上被抓到所以當然很清楚知道就是說他們某程度把這個凍結案特別是這個項目當作是兒戲來看所以確實是感到很遺憾那我們一定是支持解凍那當然該有的監督也不會少所以"},{"start":10801.209,"end":10806.191,"text":"接下來就來進行我今天關心的議題那我仍然關心太空發展那因為賴總統有視察我們福衛八號的進展跟產業深耕計畫的成果那總統有說福衛八號在開發過程所累積的這個技術跟經驗會結合台灣的既有的資通訊啊 精密機械啊然後還有電機的產業優勢來協助這個太空發展"},{"start":10830.459,"end":10842.974,"text":"的產業來練兵來穩健整個我們邁向國際太空市場的腳步那我想第三期的國家太空科技發展長城計畫這個我們現在在致力推動"},{"start":10846.218,"end":10863.303,"text":"那據報導好像福衛八號的第一顆衛星也預計在今年的十月會正式升空服役那我想台灣太空的產業產值我想不比其他的太空大國可是我想根據太空中心的回應整體而言"},{"start":10865.243,"end":10874.467,"text":"每年的產值是逐年增加的那想要請教主委跟主任的是說隨著福衛八號的一顆衛星的升空我們未來是不是有更多的規劃來帶動國內太空相關產業的產值的提升"},{"start":10883.69,"end":10889.034,"text":"同時我們看到最近英國的工黨台灣之友會的訪團有要來台灣也要訪問太空中心所以我也想請教說我們到底近期有沒有跟國際的一些交流的規劃先主委回答再主任回答"},{"start":10901.681,"end":10926.053,"text":"好 謝謝委員的確我們這個福威八號是第一顆衛星我們陸續會打總共會有八顆那將來都是會我們支持的以前都大量仰賴美國現在都是我們自己設計自己製造目前支持率已經達到84%所以未來這個遙測衛星的技術台灣幾乎就可以完全自己掌握了"},{"start":10926.813,"end":10939.53,"text":"至於未來還有福衛9號,我們會把光學的探測,將來還會再加上合成孔徑雷達的技術,所以全天候都可以來監測我們的國土。"},{"start":10943.109,"end":10972.429,"text":"那個通信衛星的部分我們現在已經開始在設計了那兩年後就會開始打第一顆所以這個都按照我們的規劃在進行當中那其中跟國外的這種合作現在也因為我們的實力慢慢展現了所以更多的這個國際的合作的夥伴願意來跟台灣合作了我們如果沒有實力沒有人會來跟我們談所以實力在於我們產業的建置所以我們現在太空三喜的計畫修正案最大的亮點就是把我們的產業鏈慢慢把它組起來"},{"start":10973.669,"end":10997.225,"text":"臺灣的產業實力全世界都知道所以跟我們合作對他們一定會有好處的那我們也因為跟他們合作以後將來我們自主的設計能力也會提升所以這個是確保我們未來產業發展以及國家安全一個很重要的策略改變謝謝委員火箭的部分你來排我補充一下就是工黨他是今天下午會去太空中心訪問"},{"start":11000.166,"end":11023.071,"text":"對 除了這個以外 未來還有什麼要跟國際交流的計畫其實像火箭的研發我們採用的未來是液態引擎這一方面我想很多技術台灣其實不一定完全被變所以我們透過很多國際合作的方式來取得部分的技術讓我們更快所以我們往這方面一直在擴展一些國際合作好 謝謝"},{"start":11026.532,"end":11053.285,"text":"那再來想要跟主委探討這個運動科技的議題運動部要在今年9月9號就要掛牌那我想跟運科中心合作來進行運動科技的研發那來發展相關的產業然後並繼轉同時可以讓這個運科知識來普及全民我想這個是國科會任重道遠"},{"start":11054.245,"end":11061.008,"text":"那可是我們看到國科會持續執行這個精準運動科學研究專案暨擴大運科能量這個計畫而且我們今年並要用這個台灣運動文化研究專案計畫這個題目向學研增建那去年我在預算審查的時候也有提案就說我們要求運動科研的成果要普及這個全民那甚至要對身心障礙者有照顧"},{"start":11083.118,"end":11093.085,"text":"那所以我們要針對如何讓運科的成果來普及那首先要請教說未來我們除了相關的成果來寄轉給產業界那我們是不是也會會同運動部未來的運動部跟輔導地方政府體育局的相關局處來進行運科技術或知識的推廣"},{"start":11107.995,"end":11117.663,"text":"也就是說我們讓地方政府去執行讓技術跟成果可以深入這個地方社區然後再來就是說國科會的這個所謂的科普環島列車是不是也來加入說因為他加入這個容易推廣的這個運科知識跟小朋友做介紹 以上幾個問題"},{"start":11127.972,"end":11141.85,"text":"好 非常感謝林委員林委員其實上次的這個建議我們都納進來了我們現在除了在運動科技這種科技研發的計畫持續在推動之外我們的確也是在文化面希望把這個運動跟文化能夠結合因為讓人民"},{"start":11145.655,"end":11167.379,"text":"更願意去親近這個運動更願意從事運動所以全民運動的部分我們透過這個科技的發展創造很多的那個工具跟這個方法讓民眾更容易使用這個運動的場域來增進自己的這個技能那以及我們在這個應用跟產業的發展也希望能夠創造我們的科技業願意來把運動這個領域能夠變成是它的市場"},{"start":11173.94,"end":11195.194,"text":"它的市場發展更多的科技產品來協助這個運動的發展那剛剛有提到說運動部的成立我的確也是除了我們國科會在支持學界之外我也支持將來運動部現在還在體育署就是我們國家運動科學中心我也支持他們將來要進到這個運動科技領域來做這個科技技術的開發協助我們的運動員以及我們產業的發展這一部分我們都遵照委員的建議"},{"start":11204.14,"end":11220.373,"text":"好 那科普環島列車科普環島列車把運動科技加進來這個其實我也跟我們的那個李處長也提了所以我們也會邀請相關的這個團隊會進來特別是那個在台南有個環球球實驗室那我們會邀請他們進來好 謝謝 謝謝那另外再接一點時間來討論一下就是說"},{"start":11229.039,"end":11255.471,"text":"我有注意到國科會有根據行政院一個六大核心戰略產業推動的方案國防及戰略產業我們會持續來推動所謂的學研中心的專案計畫那它是以跨校跨領域的建置推動國防科技的研究平台來進行所謂的智慧國防科技研發可是同時我們是知道說因為國防科技的應用也要顧及國安"},{"start":11256.972,"end":11264.373,"text":"那國防部近期要嚴密設置接觸機密資格認證的機制就是說未來將以涉密的等級來定期查核以防止滲透那舉例來說像無人機跟衛星的研發它都是所謂的國家核心科技戰略產業那萬一在研發跟應用的過程某個環節的關鍵資料被洩漏那後果當然不堪設想那所以我有疑問的是說"},{"start":11285.297,"end":11296.222,"text":"軍民兩用的科學技術太多所以部分國防科技的納管就相當重要我們知道說國科會有建立國家核心關鍵技術保護的清單用來強化國家核心關鍵技術的營業秘密的保護那不過說在這個智慧國防科技研發的學研階段我們是不是有將類似國防部這種接觸機密資格認證的機制"},{"start":11312.849,"end":11326.158,"text":"或者說國科會現在有沒有相關的法令來規範國防科技研發的這種機密的查核我們現在按照行政院的規範有在進行當中現在都有這個機密的查核都有謝謝主委非常感謝委員謝謝主席"},{"start":11340.153,"end":11346.515,"text":"謝謝林益錦召委質詢 官員請回座接下來有請葉元之委員質詢來 請國會主委 謝謝請主委備質詢 謝謝"},{"start":11363.459,"end":11389.411,"text":"主委好我們現在關心一下我們留學生因為我們留學生要去美國美國現在對於留學生簽證的政策一變再變了最新由他們的媒體的報導說川普已經下令全球的美國大使館立刻停止為外國學生安排簽證面試已經安排的不受影響了但是他們已經不接受預約了除非就是要先針對這些申請人來進行"},{"start":11391.164,"end":11410.539,"text":"社交媒體的審查可能說在這個審查過後才會繼續預約啦那主委我不知道因為國科會也有在補助很多我們的學生出國留學嘛你們去掌握一下他現在要進行社交媒體審查是要審查什麼啊怎麼樣的內容是不會被他通過的"},{"start":11412.431,"end":11440.102,"text":"對 這個我們會關注啦我們希望不是真的全面性 而且長時間希望只是短暫的一個我覺得你們那個相關的單位應該去了解一下嘛因為他的政策現在變來變去啦我們從一些報章雜誌報導看到美國川普現在正在針對哈佛嘛主要是兩個原因啦我知道主委你有沒有去看至少我看到的是說第一個是哈佛他們覺得什麼反猶太主義嘛"},{"start":11441.303,"end":11455.139,"text":"這第一個啦第二個是川普現在在打擊DEI嘛對不對那我不知道說這個是不是跟這些社群媒體的內容他審查有關我不知道主委你們對 有沒有去協助一下"},{"start":11456.625,"end":11470.991,"text":"我們當然沒有辦法了解美國政府他要做因為這個會有影響我剛剛講的問題就是說現在有一些國會已經補助了那些學生假設還沒有安排到預約然後他要接受社群媒體的審查"},{"start":11472.979,"end":11492.613,"text":"這個要因應啦我會不會說因為他社群媒體什麼樣的狀況AIT或是美國認為不OK簽證就不發了那我們這個人才沒辦法出國進修我們會因應這個變化如果是真的話那接下來怎麼協助可能我們對劉先生好按照委員的建議我們會積極來進行這是我們跟你們要資料啦"},{"start":11498.758,"end":11505.284,"text":"114年核定補助美國總共有124名學生喔博士95名有51名還沒出發29名有22個還沒出發"},{"start":11509.266,"end":11528.504,"text":"那另外還有科學及技術人員國外的短期研究有64名但是有38名未出發這個可能國科會也要去問一下我們來瞭解一下他們現在有的是已經拿到簽證了嗎還是還沒拿到簽證好不好這個去關心一下好 謝謝委員提醒第二個我想問一下國科會有關於用電的問題"},{"start":11531.587,"end":11551.296,"text":"之前國會會在2025年行政院科技顧問會議總結處理原則提出一個預估說在2050年的時候因應很多我們科技的發展到時候總電力需求會到5000億度是當時是由國會會執行秘書張正豪他指出來的那這個張正豪執行秘書他講說"},{"start":11556.892,"end":11574.095,"text":"未來我們的能源如果沒有核能的話大概還可以靠太陽能、風電、地熱未來可以進口綠青、綠鞍等等我覺得這個國會會議裡面我去評估一下這個能源的預估會不會太過樂觀你知道我們現在才多少度嗎"},{"start":11575.327,"end":11598.162,"text":"是 我們現在2500億度你說需求吧 需求其實按照我們現在產業的發展所以我們現在看這個表格我們現在整個台電系統發電量是2500億度換言之 這個資料是去年的所以去年那時候還有核電換言之我們在205你要加倍 要加倍"},{"start":11599.417,"end":11625.867,"text":"那我們其實可以針對一項一項能源來看比如說太陽能其實主委你可以去看太陽能最近的發展已經趨緩了他的暗場慢慢會飽和 對已經慢慢飽和了風電 風電也有一些危機啦為什麼 因為也是川普啊川普罵風電是垃圾所以國際有一些大廠可能會減少對風電的投資再來大家一直講綠能一直講綠能"},{"start":11628.297,"end":11646.342,"text":"新型綠能說兩個嘛一個地熱一個氫能地熱我的了解現在做專探專探到有一些已經開採的地熱其實佔發電量都很小這也是有一些風險再來就是有關氫能"},{"start":11647.962,"end":11663.427,"text":"氫能我可以問一下主委,氫能應該是不會增加發電量嗎?之前那個中研院他們講說,他們在研究一個四年的氫能研究計畫,到時候是做跟天然氣發電基礎的橋接啊,它是減碳,它並不是說有了氫能多的話呢,可以讓發電量增加,"},{"start":11670.669,"end":11696.803,"text":"所以我覺得你這樣子看喔在沒有核電的情況之下你要在2050讓我們的電double翻倍到5000億度主委你覺得有可能嗎因為這個跟國會雖然說那個是台電的事啊但國會是輔導國內科技發展嘛科技用電息息相關的所以這個部分你有沒有自己也去研究一下要給經濟部正確的建議啊"},{"start":11697.953,"end":11721.151,"text":"那個經濟部都一直在做相關的這個評估,那國會是在相關的這個新能源的開發,我們一直在努力在...是哪一方面的新能源開發?好,剛剛其實我也有提到,氫能的部分現在其實有其他的這個方法,就是SOFC,就是Solid Oxide Fuel Cell,就是一個新的這個做法,它是不用靠燃燒的,它是沒有排碳的,"},{"start":11721.451,"end":11742.244,"text":"但它目前的成本我們還在評估當中這是一個新的但是濾清我們需要是濾清濾清的這個進口或者是用安的形式轉成安比較穩定它的進口來取代未來的這種逐步啦你覺得清能如果順利發展我們是期望可以順利發展"},{"start":11743.684,"end":11772.444,"text":"第一個它什麼時候可以商轉第二個它可以增加多少發電量現在商轉小規模的已經有了至於大量的商轉未來整個市場的供應端還需要再評估可能從綠電過剩的國家他們會把它轉成氫來賣給需要綠能的這些國家這是一個可能性主委我只是提醒我覺得大家對於這個能源也都不要自欺欺人"},{"start":11773.284,"end":11795.147,"text":"就像譬如說一直講說政府一直講說我們不排除用那個SMR但是不排除不排除可是又一直不去設立核廢的最終處理廠所以光核廢這個問題社會就很難達到共識所以這都是志氣氣人的說法我覺得很務實的我們一定要找到新的能源"},{"start":11795.948,"end":11811.951,"text":"否則的話科技發展會遇到很大阻力嘛同意所以像為什麼黃文勳你看黃文勳就說台灣需要更多電力然後說要投資核電黃文勳就背一堆人背一堆反核的不知道是誰啦就出征啊還說他是中共同路人"},{"start":11812.469,"end":11822.703,"text":"人家是業界對電力擔心嘛像美國商會每一次建言裡面也有都說去使用核電嘛好那最後我問一下因為這個是國安會有科學園區的擴電計畫嘛本來是"},{"start":11828.689,"end":11844.36,"text":"有兩個一個是希望在2036年可以新增1000公頃的用地另外後來又新增2050年希望新增用地可以到3000公頃但這環拼裡面有一些狀況我們來看一下第一個也是跟用電有關"},{"start":11847.67,"end":11873.946,"text":"這個應該是經濟部的建議經濟部建議說要宣導廠商製成使用燃料採用新興能源還有第二個是要評估50%屋頂可以用面積建置太陽光電然後還有一個還有一個是也是經濟部的建議說希望國會以後這些用地可以預留用地設置自用發電設備及儲能系統甚至於要預留用地以興建電廠"},{"start":11875.745,"end":11895.88,"text":"然後這個電廠就台電公司或民營電廠都可以啦還有輸配電系統就是變電站那我看國會的回覆直接是回覆不可能那我就也是很好奇一個很務實的問題你看國科會現在如果要新設用地都被經濟部要求說在裡面要設電廠"},{"start":11897.789,"end":11910.563,"text":"這透露出什麼樣的訊息啊 主委以目前的電廠的方式要放在園區裡面當然是不可能為什麼經濟部會提出這種要求呢經濟部當然是希望說將來用電的"},{"start":11912.705,"end":11938.127,"text":"非常大的這些事業希望他們能夠自力發電所以民營的電廠進來未來也許是可行這種民營的電廠小規模的模組化的電廠我剛提的那個氫能源那種做法是一個可能性那至於SMR未來有沒有這個可能性我們會去評估會去研究那地熱是屬於比較大規模的那種其實主委這個"},{"start":11940.109,"end":11964.911,"text":"我看到這個環評他們的建議我就知道啦其實經濟部也很擔心電力不足啦所以我跟你講我真的希望國會會可以本於科技理性這樣的角度提供正確就都不要大家都欺騙就都自欺欺騙說哪一個我們可以沒問題不會缺電大家放心但務實的討論其實處處你都會看到大家對缺電的擔憂啦我們會進行研究會去評估他的感情謝謝好謝謝韋揚"},{"start":11970.833,"end":11991.955,"text":"好 謝謝葉元之委員質詢 官員請回座好 現在處理解凍專案報告五案請議事人員宣讀並進行討論"},{"start":11996.877,"end":12002.682,"text":"依國家科學及技術委員會函為依四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該會業務費凍結預算百分之三十專案報告請查照案"},{"start":12007.247,"end":12030.84,"text":"二 國家科學集計事務委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該會基本行政工作維持預算凍結專案報告請查詐案三 國家科學集計事務委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送新竹科學園區管理局業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告請查詐案四 國家科學"},{"start":12032.284,"end":12054.434,"text":"及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送中部科學園區管理局業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告請查詐案五國家科學及技術委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送南部科學園區管理局業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告請查詐案宣讀完畢"},{"start":12058.24,"end":12074.507,"text":"好 謝謝那我想我們就主案進行討論那我們這個解凍專案報告的第一案那頁次是第239頁那請問各位委員有無意見239頁那我們給大家一點時間"},{"start":12088.186,"end":12111.073,"text":"那在這個大家翻閱的過程那本席對於這個案件也有幾個問題想要就教於這個國科會因為在240頁裡面有提到就是說為提升資訊服務品質和作業效能有規劃導入人工智慧那當然這是一個良善的做法但是我也想要詢問一下因為"},{"start":12112.674,"end":12132.014,"text":"這個近期AI越來越聰明那雖然國科會有頁面上面網站上是有寫有放一個這個行政院所屬機關機構使用真誠式AI的參考指引的一些說明但是我覺得未來可能會有越來越多的這個可能發生需要"},{"start":12133.255,"end":12157.389,"text":"這個事宜的一個情況我想稍微請教一下就教一下然後待會能不能請主委或者同仁來回應一下那這邊有幾個問題第一個就是因為有提到說可能用導入AI那我想問說國客會內部現在自己的規定公文傳送或者是繳交報告比如說給我們的這個解凍報告寫得很棒"},{"start":12158.129,"end":12171.109,"text":"那你們內部有沒有一些指引或規範是說同仁用AI寫可不可以這是第一個第二個因為裡面也有寫到說要這個你們很辛苦啊每年都審查老師寫的這個國科會的計畫案嘛"},{"start":12173.752,"end":12192.179,"text":"那我想請教第二個問題就是說老師或學生用AI來寫國會計畫的補助案來申領補助可不可以用AI來寫這個結案報告可不可以有沒有規範這是第二個問題那第三個其實這個產業跟這個"},{"start":12196.949,"end":12218.9,"text":"有可能也會來跟國科會來做合作國科會也可能會委辦一些產業來進行那現在我們也看到就是有很多這個公司他可能其實程式碼或者是內容都是用AI來寫的那如果本來計劃裡面寫說要做這個做那個"},{"start":12219.92,"end":12245.252,"text":"不管是人型機器人或非人型機器人他說我有10個人力20個人力寫的說看起來洋洋灑灑的可是有可能他最後錢拿了只是叫一個AI去寫那用這種方式來做我們國科會有沒有能力去查核就是說他跟你講了10個人力20個人力結果根本就是花"},{"start":12246.252,"end":12271.268,"text":"一千美金用AI去寫了這個Sam Altman已經講了未來可能一個人的公司就可以創造十億美金的產值所以我想問的這三個問題可能會依據因為我們現在要編列預算我們預計這個工作量是很龐大的但是我們有沒有預測到我們可能會遇到這樣的問題產業界或者是學界或者我們剛剛提到的國科會內部"},{"start":12272.782,"end":12287.829,"text":"這幾個問題你們內部的情況是什麼如果沒弄清楚說不定我們編了太多的錢或我們編了太少的錢這個我們想要了解一下這是我的問題不好意思那好像有委員也有疑問這個有一件那個武力華委員謝謝"},{"start":12288.871,"end":12307.797,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於這個第一案我先言明在先非常支持解凍啦最主要是說因為這個當中也去處理到一些學術研究界的需求那我就延續我過去質詢的關心就是我很期待就是像"},{"start":12309.6,"end":12335.005,"text":"淨零碳排的話就是希望能夠去做像跟原住民族地區如何接軌那累計了那麼多的這些研究計畫我一直很關心就是怎麼樣可以到成立一個學門讓原住民族的研究有方法論知識論慢慢提煉出來所以我希望說第一個希望國歌會是不是來考慮辦一個南島民族的期刊"},{"start":12336.045,"end":12351.259,"text":"或是原住民研究期刊或者是台灣學研究期刊讓這些年就是散落各處的這些原住民研究的paper它能夠收攏那像國科會有在辦"},{"start":12352.54,"end":12378.277,"text":"東亞科技與社會研究國際期刊所以我是希望說能不能夠有這樣子朝向這個期刊那第二個就是我也很期待就是有系統的培育我們這些學者研究團隊要跨領域跨時代還有做知識的實踐者那總之我就是希望說國科會能不能夠往這個方向提出一些具體措施讓我們知道 謝謝"},{"start":12380.148,"end":12382.493,"text":"好 那我們請主委或者同仁回答 謝謝"},{"start":12385.35,"end":12413.392,"text":"主席剛剛提到的這個建議就是我們在AI的應用上面特別是在公務機關包含公文書等等這些的使用是不是有規範或者是在鼓勵那我覺得因為現在大型元模型的確是對於我們在文書的處理上面是可以節省很多人力但是我們擔心的就是裡面會不會有風險這個事情"},{"start":12415.373,"end":12430.785,"text":"這兩個我們都要兼顧我們現在對於比較屬於機敏的文書我們是禁止使用對於一般的事務性的文書我們現在並沒有限制至於委員提到茶盒是不是使用AI"},{"start":12432.025,"end":12454.511,"text":"譬如說我們講產業的發展,我們都在鼓勵要使用,減少人力,因為人力不足都在使用那媒體業者等等,甚至在學校教授也鼓勵學生在使用,不管是coding還是在做報告等等那會不會有什麼學術倫理等等,這些議題其實非常複雜,那是不是該鼓勵還是該禁止都會有"},{"start":12455.171,"end":12483.331,"text":"正反不同的意見所以我們後續會再研議一下看看在避免風險的狀況之下怎麼樣鼓勵使用因為鼓勵使用才會讓AI發展得更快所以這一點我就先跟主席報告吳委員提到的國科會其實是非常支持國會自己不會辦期刊不會辦期刊因為我們是公務機關但是我們會支持學界如果願意來辦"},{"start":12484.352,"end":12494.368,"text":"包含南島原住民等等的期刊那個學界願意提出來來做這個事我們會支持跟吳委員報告好好 范瑀委員"},{"start":12496.101,"end":12505.847,"text":"我的部分是在書面報告的部分那我是支持解凍那我其實只有三個案子有兩案我待會在質詢的時候就會更深入的去問那沒有質詢的那個就是關於學門調整在你們這個白色報告的第四頁那那個國會聯絡人員有跟我們講你們詳細的那個會議的內容那我對於你們現在關於學門調整的SOP"},{"start":12523.817,"end":12552.586,"text":"的大象上我覺得是OK的那怎麼樣透過諮詢然後學門的什麼副省委員的討論然後取得共識最後再請主委就是說確定是OK的那但是這個部分因為它像起來像是個PPT的內容是不是可以把它文字化那之後文字化的版本再讓我辦公室看一下好不好那解凍沒問題我就提一個就是說一個進一步的意見好嗎好 我們遵照委員的指示好 那謝謝 我的發言完畢"},{"start":12554.662,"end":12577.49,"text":"因為我剛剛的問題其實我覺得我也支持解凍但是我想對於機關在執行業務上我們還是要有更多的釐清因為我覺得剛剛我比較得到的答案是比較模糊但我先問因為照主委剛剛的回應我們其實不能主委您是不是不能保證這個解凍報告的報告書同仁有可能是用AI寫的"},{"start":12579.904,"end":12587.754,"text":"我沒有辦法檢查我只能信任他們啦我相信沒有那寫的時候有沒有請同仁要注意不要用AI啊"},{"start":12588.936,"end":12617.466,"text":"好 如果都不要用AI我們人數會很慢沒有啦 其實我覺得我們只是希望提醒因為真的現在馬上那個國科會計畫啦結案啦 申請啦國科會計畫老師或學生他們可能沒有這個意識但他可能覺得AI很好用他用AI來寫國科會計畫申請專案那這算不算一種詐欺這有沒有問題其實沒有規範嘛那審查的老師用AI來審"},{"start":12618.906,"end":12619.046,"text":"我請我們總會處長來回答"},{"start":12639.099,"end":12656.611,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實這兩年來一直有在宣導就是希望所有的PI在寫研究計畫之後第一個他要為他的計畫負完全的責任他可以使用AI的工具但是他要在他的計畫書裡面去揭露那另外我們也透過審查的機制來做把關因為我們審查國科會研究計畫其實著重的是科學跟原創性"},{"start":12658.653,"end":12675.085,"text":"那如果沒有揭露他會有責任嗎我想沒關係我覺得不耽誤大家的時間其實我只是想要呼籲就是說我們有業務的預算那業務在執行上面其實有很多的細節要考量我們不希望有老師或學生的權益因此受損那因為"},{"start":12677.106,"end":12698.405,"text":"有的老師寫的很辛苦啊就別的老師花200塊美金一個月的月費AI按一個鈕就全部跑出來我們現在說他有點錯誤也許以後不會有錯誤出來結果他AI寫的拿到了專案結果拼命寫的拿不到專案甚至連結案報告我覺得那您說有要揭露不揭露有什麼關係嗎那我想這個我想這個希望"},{"start":12701.107,"end":12725.568,"text":"是不是可以一個月內提供一個相關的報告因為剛剛主委有說嘛您在陸續的這個提出來可是我覺得這個需求恐急啦所以是不是一個月不夠可不可以三個月這真的不然我覺得我們大家人心惶惶不知道怎麼來評斷像我看到裡面沒有揭露啊那會不會可是我剛剛又問說是不是有用AI您說不確定這個"},{"start":12726.94,"end":12747.848,"text":"好我們三個月好我們好三個月好謝謝那我想我們這個第一案還有沒有委員有意見好那如果委員第一案沒有意見的話我們第一案就准予動之提報院會好謝謝那我們接下來處理第二案頁次是243頁那請問各位委員有無意見"},{"start":12754.946,"end":12780.422,"text":"好 五金娃委員弱弱的問一下那個解凍報告裡面因為你們有自己寫到說有受到才化法的影響那我這邊就是也會擔心說因為我們原住民族研究在國客會的經費一年有五千八百多萬所以有很多原住民的學者他也會擔心會不會受到影響就了解一下就好 謝謝"},{"start":12784.837,"end":12809.917,"text":"如果裁划法修正案還是沒有辦法解套的話我想大部分的計畫或多或少都會受到影響我想是明年不是今年那這部分我當然是希望能夠順利地圓滿地解決我知道我們這個委員會委員對國科會其實沒有"},{"start":12810.638,"end":12824.089,"text":"不會對我們有很大的意見因為我們服務的是全國的學界以及科學園區這個對整個國家的發展都非常重要我們希望不會受到影響"},{"start":12828.231,"end":12843.809,"text":"那謝謝主委我想這一點呢因為這個第二案呢我是有提出一些想法的所以我想我這裡也跟您提出一下就是其實這個部分我們有相關的凍結呢"},{"start":12845.775,"end":12863.228,"text":"也是因為財化法的這個相關的過程當中其實各界很關注那其實這個分配呢是還沒有確定的那剛才稍早柯政委員在質詢的時候其實就有提到其實你們是在去年的年底呢就有發文"},{"start":12864.449,"end":12877.939,"text":"那相關現在的網頁上面寫的也是說114年度恐受影響所以我想其實當年在寫的時候其實您剛剛也承認這可能寫可能應該是115年度那我想這個"},{"start":12879.6,"end":12903.054,"text":"我覺得作為一個台灣在科研上面的最高的機關我想這個正確性理性真的是很重要所以我覺得兩點第一點是能不能稍微檢視一下如果現在在這個國客會的網頁上面有資訊錯誤的地方是不是能勘證一下也不要引發這個大家的誤會這是第一點那第二點是"},{"start":12904.716,"end":12918.956,"text":"這是我作為這個案件的關係人我想提出來想要強調的是其實我覺得部會尤其是國科會用推估可能恐獸"},{"start":12920.418,"end":12935.319,"text":"等等的這種描述的方式我相信可能不是主委的本意啦但是可能你們的宣傳單位或文傳單位用這樣的一個方式在一件事情還沒有抵定之前還有溝通的機會還正在盤點"},{"start":12936.901,"end":12950.52,"text":"不管是行政院在盤點還是這個法令大家雙方在溝通還包含地方政府其實如果在還不確定的情況之下就用這種推估可能恐受而且都是比較是負面的會提到說"},{"start":12952.683,"end":12980.923,"text":"科研会受到影响啊大家会怎么样我觉得这种论述当然我尊重主委您内在的思想自由您的言论自由可是因为国客会应该是一个行政中立的机关同仁在对外表达也应该要是以一个中立的论述所以如果您在的作为一个行政机关行政机关的门面在对外沟通的时候如果不是以一个中立的形式我觉得会引发民众的这个"},{"start":12983.104,"end":13007.631,"text":"會有過度的擔憂我覺得這個也對科研人員不太公平所以主委能不能第二點就是說能不能承諾未來就不要用這種方式來溝通那我想我們解凍這個專案我想我們大家都有一致的想法那這個是不是可以來回應一下謝謝我們可以承諾那對於已經揭露的資訊如果有一些不正確的要改的我們回去我們會檢視一下會來調整"},{"start":13010.216,"end":13036.89,"text":"好 非常謝謝主委好 那我想這個第二案請問各位委員有無意見好 謝謝那如果這個案子委員沒有意見的話我們就准予動之 提報院會那我們接著處理第三案第三案的頁次是247頁那有沒有委員有意見好 那林怡瑾召委然後郭玉琴委員 劉淑冰委員 謝謝"},{"start":13038.473,"end":13062.008,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想因為三四五案是同樣都是科學園區的業務費的凍結案所以我就一邊來講啦當然我是相當的支持因為唯有盡速解凍我們才能有利於科學園區的營運發展這我剛剛諮詢有特別提告那我現在是想要針對一些問題做一些這個叮嚀跟提問就是說我們園區零費處理廠"},{"start":13068.372,"end":13077.241,"text":"因為我們看到中科已經有一個資源循環再生中心各園區也要積極推動事業廢棄物循環利用不過我們距離事業廢棄物"},{"start":13083.326,"end":13099.717,"text":"在那個什麼在利用率的百分百的目標可能還有一個距離所以我想說不曉得主委你對於這樣的一個目標怎麼達成你的看法怎麼樣然後有什麼期許"},{"start":13100.638,"end":13116.44,"text":"其實國會努力有兩個面向一個面向就是我們在原區我們是按照現在中科的模式我們已經要求我們的旗艦廠商也在南科也要做同樣的事情那這個事情"},{"start":13117.321,"end":13140.435,"text":"因為新的技術一直不斷在發展我相信我們的廢棄物回收率會越來越高將來要朝百分之百現在我們發現說因為努力的結果我們在南科最後處理完的現在都正在建設當中但是已經一面在回收了處理完的廢棄物真正把它固化以後"},{"start":13141.135,"end":13163.481,"text":"要運出去的量已經是比以前我們期待的還要變得更少了所以這個進步很快那未來我們希望在所有的園區我會努力在這個方向希望讓民眾的疑慮可以降到最低這樣子謝謝委員好 請郭玉琴委員我想這個"},{"start":13165.57,"end":13182.231,"text":"這個第二案剛剛其實我在質詢的時候我有特別也特別提到了我想這個竹科呢身為我們的這個國家科技產業的戰略的一個高地啦那雖然它的應該是說它的執行率算是高的所以當然這一案我也是支持可以解凍啦"},{"start":13183.412,"end":13200.742,"text":"但是我想要請教的就是說竹科現在在跟這個國際的合作上面有沒有一些具體的一個目標因為我想這一案其實也關係到這個園區的一個管理的業務還有招商跟國際的一個合作所以這個部分有沒有一個具體的一個說法可以提供給我們"},{"start":13202.271,"end":13227.145,"text":"我們竹科現在是全世界的標杆所以其實我們跟國際之間的往來是非常頻繁非常密切的也一直被邀請要到國際的他們要發展園區的話去協助他們去指導他們當然我們不能幫外國的政府去開發園區但是我們在這種協助的過程當中其實會把我們的廠商"},{"start":13228.328,"end":13240.691,"text":"原區開發的這些廠商順便也會帶過去所以其實也增加我們對外的這種產業連結的實力所以這一點的確很謝謝委員我們會努力來協助我們的產業能夠往外拓展那這個會幫我們連結很多友善的國家將來會跟台灣會合作"},{"start":13253.915,"end":13265.023,"text":"那這個科學園區之外我們其實也連帶了經濟部的科技園區也同步在進行當中劉素冰委員"},{"start":13266.311,"end":13290.776,"text":"好 謝謝主席這個案子345案子是涉及到竹科中科跟南科那我們在三個科技部的國科會的案子就是科學園區的案子當中只看到在中科這邊有出現淨零排放循環經濟剛才國務卿委員有提到叫循環經濟可是最重要的因為主委你也提到說是"},{"start":13291.736,"end":13299.101,"text":"科學園區呢是我們科技跟產業發展的這個國際的標竿產業的園區嘛對不對可是2050年的淨零碳排這邊怎麼沒有提到在你們目標當中是忘記還是怎麼樣那我就想說你們沒有在你們淨零碳排當中寫在報告當中沒有呈現那我就想說請問一下先就竹科來講的話你們淨零碳排的目標要放進去那有的話你們淨零碳排目標是什麼"},{"start":13318.433,"end":13322.202,"text":"目前的竹科尤其是他知道是耗水跟耗電的產業都集中在半導體的產業在那邊那你們的這個目標是怎麼定的"},{"start":13328.226,"end":13351.921,"text":"我請管理局長來回答好 謝謝謝謝委員的提問第一個我先講這個竹科我們在今年下半年有一個資源再生中心的運作這是廠商的部分第二個我們在資源再利用的部分竹科已經達到93%所以我們今年的目標是盡量減少掩埋第三個我們也在推廣跟園區所以我們大概有11家已經承諾在2040年R1-100它會提前達到"},{"start":13355.703,"end":13383.39,"text":"所以我們一直在跟廠商有新的技術或者是廠商能夠大廠帶小廠相關的技術我們一定在配合事實上這有十餘家廠商他有承諾像環球晶圓台積電他們都事實上都提前承諾達到2040年或是更早之前達到這個R100的部分我們看到的是現在我可以問一下就是在排碳的部分耗電的部分"},{"start":13384.719,"end":13395.15,"text":"竹科站全台灣是多少然後這邊的排碳量是排碳量到底是多少那你們怎麼去達成你們還是其中一個目標可是如果到2050年的話你們有沒有這樣一個路徑圖在這邊呈現出來"},{"start":13396.957,"end":13420.133,"text":"排碳大概有幾個 第一個範疇一 範疇二 範疇三直接的電力的部分 我想很多廠商是用綠電去購買綠電憑證來取代第二個跟委員在辦公室說明 我們曾經一直廠商能夠有綠電或是其他的替代能源的部分廠商非常樂意去做使用跟採購"},{"start":13421.575,"end":13430.196,"text":"國科會好像還沒有拜訪我國科會這邊那張書你們當初有講到這個淨零碳排這裡我記得好像不是您您是新準備要就任嗎對"},{"start":13432.131,"end":13460.069,"text":"這部分我覺得應該逐漸的呈現出來年度的排碳的量呈現出來或不然就要RE100等等要呈現那耗水的部分雖然你們有節水的部分可是你們這邊也沒有在說只有在中科有說中科事實上是沒有說的這個是不是可以事後我們把電跟節水的資料補送到委員辦公室謝謝那另外的中科的部分同樣的就是在耗電的部分"},{"start":13460.874,"end":13488.579,"text":"是跟委員報告一下我們現在目前的耗電大概是1580MW左右那當然就是說我們在節電的部分我們都有輔導廠商在做節電的措施那還有未來的包括靜領的這個部分廠商也都一直在從它的一個力電從它的一個基台來在做"},{"start":13489.159,"end":13512.818,"text":"那當然就是說如果園區一直在擴我們現在也不可諱言就是說我們用電量還是會增加但是用電量增加我們會從技術上面來克服這第一個那第二個就是那個水的部分水的部分我們一個月現在目前大概是在16點多萬噸左右那我們也都是每年一直在做的就是做這個節水的一個輔導所以這些大廠大部分製程的回收"},{"start":13514.539,"end":13539.166,"text":"這個節水的部分大概都可以回收到87%那這個我們會在持續的輔導這個廠商來做這個電節電跟節水的這一個部分不過你們還是希望有年度的每年的這樣的採訪不然你進行採訪還真的是達不到不只是我們自己國內國際也達不到那這邊也希望說等於之後也來給做書面報告或是來說明好嗎那同樣的下面就是在南科的部分"},{"start":13540.066,"end":13566.153,"text":"在淨零碳排的你們的目標是怎麼樣定的其實我們半導體的產業在環評裡面都有承諾2050要達到百分之百使用再生人員那在這之前確實有入境的一個目標其實環境部有控管工業部門我們每年減碳的一個主機那目前也是跟竹中科一起是一樣是協助"},{"start":13566.974,"end":13582.877,"text":"廠商做製程的改善然後鼓勵他們加入RE100那我們希望說雖然產值一直在增加可是他單位面積產量的用電是下降的然後讓他電不是一直跟著產量上去是"},{"start":13584.577,"end":13602.183,"text":"緩緩的不要影響太多用電那另外剛剛像經濟部在講的推展創能啊儲能這些我們也鼓勵廠商在使用創能跟儲能譬如太陽能啊還是SOFC啊還有就是我們那個儲能也有在"},{"start":13603.283,"end":13627.884,"text":"原區有幾家開始在做儲能那用水方面南科是最早用工業用水做再生水還有我們台南市政府的協助我們大概也用了六七萬噸的一個再生水那我目標是以後可能是三分之一都會用到再生水那未來如果海淡水的話我們也會承諾來使用海淡水以上"},{"start":13628.444,"end":13645.74,"text":"好 我再請問一下一下就是說你們當然都用RE100當然是綠能看起來是沒有排碳但是RE100台灣的綠能是夠的嗎不排碳的能源是夠的嗎這可能你們跟經濟部有沒有確認有沒有確定因為我之前我們去"},{"start":13647.509,"end":13676.32,"text":"去有一次到金竹科學園去做考察的時候那裡面有這個實驗室的實驗的研究院的是說這邊其實是增加的部分資料有問題但是我想說我們這部分我們是還是支持說應該要解凍但是這個部分呢希望是說你們這部分就是在會後的時候再把這邊相關的部分能夠就是來做報告然後我們希望說這個時候一起來監督然後也促進說我們能夠符合到國際的需求這邊的這個節能就是淨零碳排"},{"start":13677.02,"end":13702.643,"text":"好不好 好 謝謝那尊照委員的建議好 謝謝好 張雅玲委員好 我的是在第四案的部分就是說我們目前現在大部分都是使用LINE那我們現在也都是用災防科技中心也有一個LINE的市井的服務我想要確認就是說我們這樣子落於小幫手的APP"},{"start":13703.283,"end":13730.856,"text":"還有需要持續的來維護嗎因為這樣好像看起來大家都會使用LINE了嘛對不對那是不是就沒有不需要再持續的來維護這一個APP這樣多花了一些錢這樣那第八案的部分呢主要是因為對於其實我今天早上也有質詢啦就是我們一些科普活動那今天我講的是本土語言的支持之外呢還有其實我今天還來不及講的就是我關於女生對於女性的一些科研活動"},{"start":13732.52,"end":13736.327,"text":"那這個部分呢我想了解一下今年有沒有相關的一個規劃"},{"start":13738.246,"end":13763.78,"text":"有沒有一個初步的規劃可以簡單說明一下好 那個小幫手好 跟我們報告就是有關駱魚第一個應該是LINE的官方帳號因為這是一個公益帳號所以裡面主要是內容我們不斷地根據所有的情資在提供整合那現在我們也把駱魚小幫手做到LINE官方帳號裡面去了所以其實APP的部分跟LINE的部分是我們有多元的管道讓所有的這個民眾都有辦法拿到這個"},{"start":13765.862,"end":13784.277,"text":"那其他部分我們也包括像Google等等我們都有這些資訊利用各種不同的廣告讓全台灣大概兩三百萬的人都能夠得到這些資訊所以不是只有單一一個管道好那你先那這樣子使用路由小幫手的人到底有多少呢"},{"start":13785.516,"end":13814.672,"text":"現在是看起來是二十九萬七千嘛那持續的有在增加嗎我跟委員報告就是說其實我們已經做到LINE官方網站裡面了我今天早上看是一百八十萬報告委員那個肉依小幫手現在民眾反應非常非常好所以我們會繼續來加強應該是說有沒有兩個嘛一個是LINE官方一個是APP嘛我現在指的是說APP的部分還需要持續的來做嗎還是是說就直接處理LINE的部分就好了"},{"start":13817.726,"end":13832.748,"text":"現在目前還是會持續因為維護不是很高因為我們只是維護這個APP的不是在開發我們會維護APP是因為很多人他喜歡用APP就每個人使用習慣不一樣所以我們會盡量讓郭源管道並存讓所有人都能夠使用到這個資訊"},{"start":13837.288,"end":13849.361,"text":"女性的科普跟委員報告我們有五個主軸那裡面有一個主軸就是針對提高女性對科學的興趣所以每年都有固定的增建"},{"start":13851.232,"end":13865.592,"text":"針見可是問題是以前都會有一些主題活動啊不是只有針見吧以前會有一些宣傳啊或是一些講座啊等等的針對資安的部分我們今年五月其實有辦資安女傑師的一個活動那這其實是辦了"},{"start":13867.995,"end":13881.35,"text":"因為第四屆也第五屆了那每年都會有高中跟大學的女學生來參與這個治安相關的這些闖關那我記得我之前就有說我希望這是不是可以再找一點點有一些國中的因為高中都已經分組了還有一些其他的"},{"start":13883.462,"end":13904.514,"text":"還是 沒關係 這個在提這個基本上我OK啦但是我想我們再仔細的來去確認因為我們本來之前我其實一直就在講嘛我們應該要更早的去做這件事情不然你高中都已經分組了那基本上就已經很難有機會再接觸以現在的學制來說啦那我們在辦公室好好仔細再討論看看還有沒有什麼可以對國中生的部分來做好不好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":13906.755,"end":13932.454,"text":"好那這一點這個案子我想本席也有問題想要這個確認一下那當然我是支持解凍啦那也支持剛剛詹雅琳委員的說法就是其實我們也鼓勵主委還有同仁因為您剛剛主委有提到預算有可能在明年度你們在編列的時候也有一些擔憂這個我們也理解啦大家有不同的想法"},{"start":13933.194,"end":13941.623,"text":"那但是以一個尊潔開支的角度來看也許是一個好的時機去看說是不是已經有一些計畫是執行成效或者是時間點或許可以被更好的計畫來取代那我想每一滴錢當然剛剛有說這個APP維護費不是很高"},{"start":13950.231,"end":13972.731,"text":"那當然我們也理解但可能有其他專案這個板塊上可以依據時間來做一點調整我覺得這個是第一個希望不管是園區或者是這個國會會自己內部的計畫我覺得這第一點第二點的是那個園區的電力充足或不充足的問題我也跟主委您交流其實我我們也有這個考察過"},{"start":13973.972,"end":13994.387,"text":"某園區我就不明確講是哪個園區在考察的過程當中其實有相關人員是表達確實有缺點的那我想這個應該不是一個意識形態的問題具體有遇到那有人提出那我想可能主委還是希望能夠關心跟關切一下那原因其實就在於我想要提出的第三點"},{"start":13995.248,"end":14014.082,"text":"因為剛剛有一些回覆是說 廠商可以購買碳泉或者是說我們可以用節電但是事實上為了額外的這個能源要去付出的成本跟代價對廠商來講都是一個壓力跟負擔如果我們不去考量這個的話 那當然"},{"start":14016.184,"end":14031.562,"text":"你要買一大堆的碳權買到到最後連那個那個利潤都沒了那當然可以淨零啊可是顯然不是所以我想一個能源政策的這個確認並且是合理的我覺得還是很重要啊所以"},{"start":14032.642,"end":14052.555,"text":"我想還是給主委一個機會因為我剛剛有詢問您說您認不認同這個黃仁勳所講的台灣絕對要投資核能使用核能不應該背負民話您認不認同那我覺得當然這各自有意識形態或有不同的想法大家都自由的但是"},{"start":14052.995,"end":14075.001,"text":"因為剛剛也有委員在質詢的時候有提到黃岸勛接下來要跟國科會有合作我們不能說要合作蓋這個AI基礎設施好棒棒然後人家的想法我們就不予表達意見這個是不是可以再給主委一個因為你們現在已經是partner某種程度在AI上是partner您認不認同您的這個"},{"start":14076.161,"end":14082.311,"text":"國科會在AI研究上的partner所說的台灣絕對要投資核能使用核能不應該被汙名化你認不認同他這個說法"},{"start":14083.581,"end":14106.562,"text":"我想黃仁勛這樣講當然有他的觀點他的立場我們都尊重啦但是我還是在強調說我們在未來捷徑能源的發展我們一定會兼顧到各種層面那成本也是一個考量那我們都不排除所有的新能源 捷徑能源我們都不排除而且我們未來在園區的開發"},{"start":14108.584,"end":14126.297,"text":"新園區的開發我也會把這個園區內是不是會有一個民眾可以放心認同的電廠的開發也會放在裡面所以這個我們都在規劃進行當中所以那個主席提到了這個提醒我們的事情我們其實是沒有"},{"start":14127.097,"end":14154.731,"text":"沒有反對啦我沒有反對但是不一定是按照說我們絕對一定要用核能我不能這樣講因為我們要評估各種可能性如果有更便宜的好的能源我們當然會使用不一定要用那個方式嘛對不起因為您這個partner他說台灣絕對要投資核能所以您就是支持他有這樣的說法的空間但是就不加以認同或不認同是好"},{"start":14155.97,"end":14160.871,"text":"為什麼這一案提出是因為主委您的態度會影響到園區的招商因為台灣接下來會應該要有越來越多的廠商進駐發展我們的園區那如果態度您是模稜兩可的或者是讓大家覺得這個中立性有這個質疑的空間我覺得這會影響啦所以我特別在這一案提出的原因在這裡"},{"start":14181.037,"end":14201.95,"text":"謝謝主席但是我沒有模擬兩可我們為了要提供充足的電力一定把所有可能的能源都會含在裡面所以我並沒有排除任何一種並沒有排除那我們會研究可行性讓民眾也認同才有辦法做而且一定要顧慮到廠商的成本如果你的成本是無限的"},{"start":14202.23,"end":14221.197,"text":"那你當然一定夠用嘛你當然一定敬禮嘛好 謝謝那我想這一個第三案還有有沒有 各位委員有沒有意見好 如果沒有意見我們就第三案准予動之體報院會那接下來我們進行第四案第四案的業次 第四案跟第五"},{"start":14222.335,"end":14241.308,"text":"第四案跟第五案我們就一起來因為其實我們剛剛都有了那我們第四案是251頁第五案是257頁那剛才應該也算是有討論過了我想還是請教一下各位委員有無意見好謝謝那我們就第四案第五案準與動之提報院會"},{"start":14244.309,"end":14255.497,"text":"好的 那我想我們解凍案五案審查完均均准以動之提報院會接著處理臨時提案今天有委員提出臨時提案即疑案請宣讀"},{"start":14257.588,"end":14282.696,"text":"案有平埔原住民族群身份認定法治作業迫在眉睫行政院已提出《平埔原住民族群身份法》草案以求作業人保障平埔原住民族群身份認定事宜草案中有關如何追溯認定平埔原住民族群身份其中一款為申請民主制成員本人或其直系血親遵親署"},{"start":14283.669,"end":14303.03,"text":"以公私立大專校院或學術研究機構之研究成果內有足以證明其屬於台灣南島與西民族之資訊此款認定方法乃參考總統府歷史正義及轉型正義委員會歷屆評普代表委員相關提案建議"},{"start":14303.931,"end":14322.214,"text":"至於何種學術研究資料該當得以佐證之客觀歷史記錄將仰賴原學、歷史學、人類學等相關領域之學術權威著作建請國科會會統中研院及各社有民族學系之大專校院"},{"start":14323.91,"end":14348.255,"text":"盤點目前共有多少可供人民查閱之評估原住民族群身份認定佐證學士資料並於一個月內向立法院教育及文化委員會提出報告提案人林怡瑾 連署人吳佩玉 郭益晴 陳秀寶宣讀完畢好的 那請問提案委員或各位在場委員有無補充說明或意見好 我來講一下 謝謝主席"},{"start":14349.932,"end":14363.831,"text":"我想為什麼要提這個提案因為依照憲法法庭11憲判自第17號判決的宣判意旨我們就是必須要在今年10月前要完成評估族群原住民身份認定的修法"},{"start":14364.872,"end":14387.267,"text":"可是平埔族群的身份認定具備哪些條件除了現在用日治時期他那個戶籍藤本的那個有特別把民眾的身份做註記那時候註記首番那時候就是平埔族以外其實要怎麼樣看得出你是不是有平埔族的身份就很仰賴學術研究留下來的一些資料"},{"start":14387.927,"end":14402.878,"text":"那因為雖然這個評普原住民身份證這個草案還沒有看審因為行政院的草案已經送到立法院來了那我們看到說在追溯這個身份認定的這個路上條件上其中有一個叫做減負學術研究資料這個在那個院版頭有這樣寫"},{"start":14406.28,"end":14434.139,"text":"那所以國科會歷年來也都當然我們致力於原住民相關研究那也補助了不少研究案所以我才會想說在這邊來提說拜託國科會可以向會同中研院還有相關設有這個相關系所的院校那所有學研單位要動起來來整理有關台灣民族學人類學資料來盤點目前可供人民查閱的這個評普原住民族身份認定的佐證學術資料然後"},{"start":14436.52,"end":14457.879,"text":"那當然因為我覺得因為是10月是修法的定期那當然我們立法院還要進行修法所以主委目前是很迫切需要這份的資料所以我才想說拜託那個國科院這邊一個月內提可是剛剛這個主辦單位有說其實真的是有點困難是因為還要盤點這些學術的資料也需要時間"},{"start":14461.902,"end":14483.848,"text":"對 那本來跟我商量說三個月我說不然兩個半月我已經很有彈性了好 謝謝委員那如果是這樣的話看能不能請國科會這邊來同意我們會遵照辦理那就是因為碰到接下來碰到暑假等等而且現在很多學校所以我們要花一點時間好 那我們就兩個半月謝謝委員"},{"start":14488.214,"end":14508.97,"text":"好那我們就這個說明都完成了就一個月一個月改成兩個半月我想大家都沒有意見的話我們就照修正本案通過謝謝好那個提案如果有委員補簽請議事人員詳細登載在議事錄"},{"start":14513.613,"end":14535.211,"text":"那我們也謝謝非常多委員還有這個同仁都很支持那我們接著繼續進行質詢請何新淳委員質詢何新淳委員何新淳委員不在接下來請鄭天才委員質詢鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接下來請范雲委員質詢"},{"start":14543.891,"end":14546.298,"text":"好 有請 謝謝昭偉 有請主委有請主委 貝殖勳 謝謝"},{"start":14554.459,"end":14579.927,"text":"主委午安我是想針對我有兩個預算案那當然就是說剛剛我們全力支持國科會的發展我們都解凍了那可是這兩個案子一個是關於無障礙的部分一個是跟學術資源整合入口網站的部分想要跟深入的跟主委討論我想我看到你們的報告裡面就有講到你們都一切尊重"},{"start":14580.627,"end":14608.946,"text":"落实CRPD就是台湾所签署的身心障碍权利公约的合理调整的精神那我今年三月就是你们就在回应我三月的这个预算案那我之前也有质询过那你们的报告有讲到申请机构得依实际需要于计划申请书提列无障碍措施经费需求获得国客会补助的研讨会得于合定总金额内调配使用"},{"start":14611.208,"end":14627.541,"text":"一切看起來很合理喔但是我就發現說其實你們這個辦法是修正你們這個補助作業要點的第八點嘛那原本就有托兒服務這個是原本就有的對不對現在我們只是新增加也可以申請無障礙措施"},{"start":14628.382,"end":14641.069,"text":"那我想請問主委那原本就有的托兒服務你們用這個方式來讓大家結果效果如何譬如一年會有幾場研討會有申請這個主委知道嗎抱歉我請李處長來回答這位是我們科國處處長好 處長好那請問你知道一年有幾場研討會有依照你們這個第八點的規定來申請托兒服務嗎"},{"start":14657.87,"end":14672.995,"text":"全國應該說我們這個要點是2月20號修正之後呢我們到現在有26個案子進來所以我們在審查那我們也會這個托兒服務是這次才有的還是以前就有我記得以前就有耶"},{"start":14674.235,"end":14693.923,"text":"托兒服務我現在講的不是無障礙幫忙補充一下托兒服務它是在研討會申請補助的時候那個經費裡面可以用在托兒服務那我們目前應該沒有這個統計沒有這個統計就是說實際上有用托兒服務的統計但是我們有研討會的"},{"start":14700.566,"end":14701.989,"text":"一年大概有幾場學術研討會是有申請到你們這個經費的全國"},{"start":14716.788,"end":14736.924,"text":"這個我們經費合了以後,它有沒有使用這個我們...不是,我說全國你們會合發多少場學術研討會的經...我們不要講經費數,而幾場你們有沒有一個大概的數字?一年譬如說是兩百場還是一千場還是...沒有概念喔?"},{"start":14739.357,"end":14758.841,"text":"可能幾十場啦一年只有幾十場研討會是申請到國科會的經費補助啊因為我們補助的都是比較大型的所以幾十場當中並沒有統計有多少場確實執行出有多兒服務嘛 並不知道嘛 對不對那個處長都不知道齁"},{"start":14764.291,"end":14772.663,"text":"柯國樹補助的是國際研討會對 國際研討會就是大型的國際研討會是 是這個大概一年大概幾十場幾十場所以這個第八點這個只有限國際研討會對不對然後幾十場不知道有沒有拖額"},{"start":14780.573,"end":14786.477,"text":"那我為什麼要問這個問題就現在你不知道有沒有拖額未來你也不會知道有沒有無障礙最後這個政策就好像十年前我記得我進學術界已經不止十年了當時女學會就在推動那你們已經很有善地列了這個了可是因為你不關心它也不關心它好不好用最後就會變成大部分的研討會就是沒有所以無障礙也會變成是一樣的狀況"},{"start":14808.19,"end":14812.094,"text":"然後說大家可以來申請可是這不是只有錢耶這個也很辛苦麻煩的事情你要托兒就要去找保姆或是托育員對不對要有場地要安全無障礙措施也不是有錢就能解決的因為對辦研討會來講是增加不少負擔耶"},{"start":14826.61,"end":14838.538,"text":"所以主委我想問一下說如果你們真的要服務CRPD你要有個推動計劃嘛不是改一下這個規定然後也沒有關心過去這個已經有的托兒服務到底有沒有人申請他們遇到什麼困難我這樣講沒錯吧沒錯沒錯謝謝委員提醒好我請柯國柱"},{"start":14845.606,"end":14865.913,"text":"所以要有個句話你的理想是假如一年有30場國際研討會幾年之內這30場只要有一個與會者是深藏者他的需求都能被滿足你的主委您覺得以我們台灣的學術實力跟我們的經濟實力大概幾年內應該要做到大型國際研討會都要有您的理想是幾年我們有理想之後再來落實嘛"},{"start":14874.69,"end":14902.11,"text":"我的理想當然越快越好 因為這個是但是我知道無法一蹴可擊對不對有時候還牽扯到我們場地的選擇當然當然當然所以你就要提供足夠的支持嘛 對不對那至少我們先限定就是說有這樣的與會者他就要有公平參與的權利我們先讓他能夠顯現出效果對 那主委我們假設主委您當主委已經多久了"},{"start":14903.61,"end":14929.945,"text":"一年嘛我們假設啦當然我們希望說您做得很好繼續連任假設就是說三年的話三年內看看看看有沒有機會你說全部嗎一年二年三年對啊全部我是擔心那個場地全部擔心場地會有問題因為我們國際研討會有時候會辦在全國各地我就辦在一個沒辦法做到無障礙的場地"},{"start":14931.527,"end":14952.994,"text":"那三年內你不要百分之百好了百分之七十五這樣可以嗎百分之五十三年百分之五十我真的覺得很辛苦啦我每次都要說陳俊翰律師他如果要參加研討會可能有一半的他沒有辦法參加到那希望那些沒有跟他法律他興趣身上權益有關的"},{"start":14954.594,"end":14982.384,"text":"百分之五十真的是低標但是我想主委就是講到就會做到那你要把那個就是說方法講出來你的誘因是什麼對不對我們當然一開始不是讓大家主動來做那你要給他足夠的誘因他才會做嘛他辦個國際研討會已經很辛苦了對不對好我們努力好那就三年做到一半的國際研討會能夠符合CRPD好那還有一點時間就是下一題"},{"start":14983.919,"end":15011.823,"text":"好下一題我知道這個也是高難度啦我真的是接到我們學術界就是的學者他覺得我們的學術資源整合的部分就是沒有辦法做到日本的水平那他有給我看日本做得真的非常的友善那他覺得我們全國各單位教育部也做國科會也做就是說"},{"start":15012.603,"end":15041.963,"text":"國家圖書館也做大家各自做然後平台之間沒有整合然後花了很多的錢可是沒有一個最好的全國性的學術資源整合入口網站那你們給我回的東西我看了很久覺得這個就是說非常的複雜本會在釋法的情形下會尋求與國內既有整合入口網站串聯開放請問主委這個釋法是哪個法"},{"start":15042.703,"end":15056.377,"text":"可不可以告訴我我找不到哪一個法跟這個圖書館入口網站整合有關跟委員報告就是有那個圖書館法那國家圖書館依照圖書館法所以他們就是會建置已經有建置的這樣的一個網站那他們如果不夠好呢"},{"start":15059.48,"end":15063.582,"text":"所以是圖書館法意思就是說圖書館是歸教育部管是教育部要給錢然後不是你們的事嗎是這樣嗎我們沒有說不是我們的事因為是說我們有跟國家圖書館這邊我們去研究了這個相關的法令的規定然後也目前的一些網站的一個建制的情形然後我們也有跟國圖這邊來做一個溝通"},{"start":15082.571,"end":15109.116,"text":"已經跟他們溝通過了嗎 坐下來討論怎麼整合因為很多的論文國圖不可能收國外的期刊論文嘛 對不對可是我們每個學者像我過去申請的時候我只要在國外出版的我都會把那個檔案給你們因為你們要審查嘛所以其實你們擁有最多的只要是台灣學者得到國科會的資源的都會列出來給你檔案那他是不是 這樣的東西是不是只有國科會這裡會有"},{"start":15110.956,"end":15115.159,"text":"所以這個部分我們可能我們還會持續在跟國圖這邊來做溝通然後另外是我們在建制那個TOAJ就是有關開放取用的這個部分那我們也是希望跟國圖這邊來做一個介接跟結合這樣那這個部分是不是我們也在持續在跟國圖這邊做溝通跟尋求那個協助然後是不是有可能這個會後我們再跟委員這邊辦公室聯繫再跟您做這樣充分的說明"},{"start":15139.855,"end":15158.902,"text":"好那請問你知道我講的那個日本的那個學術入口的網站的名稱嗎是就是那個Sini對Sini不知道主委知不知道這個平台日本的那主委有空可以看一下我是希望主委能夠做這個對全國民眾現在高中生都在寫就是報告了如果不要他用chatGPT的話"},{"start":15159.922,"end":15169.751,"text":"AI我們主委很擔心那就要讓他知道找資料是很容易的對不對不是東找一個西找一個然後各資料都不完整我覺得日本那個應該是我們的標杆主委可以全力協助嗎我們再參考看看如果教育部這邊需要我們來協調的話我們非常的樂意好不好"},{"start":15178.799,"end":15203.734,"text":"希望國科會擁有這麼多的學術期刊的資源主要是因為全國的學者有在做研究都會跟你們申請經費所以你們會連我們收不到的英文期刊的網站你都至少會有我們國內學者的文章在你們的檔案中那這些應該可以開放你也可以透過一個方式來設計因為都是國科會的資源在支持的這樣沒問題吧"},{"start":15204.955,"end":15205.877,"text":"多久內可以給我一個初步的報告好嗎"},{"start":15217.701,"end":15245.052,"text":"那個委員是不是我們先到委員辦公室這邊來做一個比較就是具體的那個說明那我們再來其實你們的那個寫中報告已經寫得很仔細了我們現在就希望你們更積極的行動讓主委知道給你足夠的支持然後你們去跟國圖協調好不好還有中央研究院我都有跟他們講過了他們都會往這個方向努力是不是再給我們三個月的時間三個月好那就三個月好謝謝主委加油謝謝"},{"start":15247.459,"end":15262.969,"text":"謝謝范瑀委員質詢關於請回座接下來我們有請黃國昌委呃對不起不好意思我們接下來請蔡易瑜委員質詢蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在接下來我們有請黃國昌委員質詢謝謝主席麻煩有請主委有請主委被質詢謝謝"},{"start":15277.825,"end":15296.578,"text":"黃委員好各位主委好我出自學界申請過國歌會計畫也幫國歌會省國計畫也處理過學術倫理的案子但我發現這整件事情誇張的程度已經超越我的想像"},{"start":15297.864,"end":15322.134,"text":"因為我處理過相關不管計畫的審查還是學倫的案子我講一句比較直接的我沒有看過這麼假的我為什麼說沒有看過這麼假的這件事情發生的時候我那時候人離開立法院因為當職業律師我也比較沒有在關心法學界的事情結果竟然"},{"start":15324.315,"end":15334.164,"text":"等到我們這個注音公司派出去了整個法學界我必須老實跟主委講現在是大爆炸我為什麼說大爆炸竟然在自己的學術履歷表上面造假造假這件事情我當然覺得有去追當年這個事情到底是怎麼處理的怎麼會處理成這個樣子"},{"start":15353.208,"end":15374.306,"text":"教育部的部分我去找教育部國科會的部分我覺得事前就要把它講清楚我相信主委我這幾天連續在追這個案子主委應該有充分準備了當初國科會在處理這個案子的時候法律專業學門七個委員一自決"},{"start":15381.439,"end":15393.828,"text":"說這個違反學術倫理情節重大結果最後到學倫大會被推翻掉了主委這個過程你掌握了沒有我了解"},{"start":15395.329,"end":15420.303,"text":"當初在國科會的學術倫理委員會裡面討論我們都是依程序在進行當初不是我負責但是依程序進行委員討論表決是沒有到三分之二差一票嘛 對不對就差一點 但是當然委員也都知道說我這樣講好了啦七位"},{"start":15423.735,"end":15450.688,"text":"在法律學門裡面可以在這個調查小組裡面的成員其中兩個還被民進黨提當大法官這七位在法學界裡面有一定的學術分量這我相信七位一自覺被學倫大會給推翻掉我老實說我是聞所未聞我真的聞所未聞因為這整件事情太離譜了"},{"start":15452.082,"end":15479.251,"text":"太曲折了太離奇了這七位在法學界裡面可以說是重量級的學者做出一致的決議那其實這麼簡單的事情還要七個重量級的法學界的學者做出一致的決議其實也沒必要啦大概問一個大學生就知道了啦你自己哪所學校畢業的你不知道哪個系所畢業的你不知道"},{"start":15480.29,"end":15507.696,"text":"在履歷表上面啊可以這樣公然造假但離譜的事情是什麼離譜的事情是我們當初的科技部所表達的立場是這個學倫大會不成立沒有達到三分之二差一票我簡單問一個問題啊在學倫大會裡面有沒有基本的利益迴避原則"},{"start":15510.046,"end":15519.946,"text":"有沒有利益迴避原則是所有的審查一定要遵循的原則嗎當初的學倫大會成員有沒有違反利益迴避原則的"},{"start":15521.597,"end":15542.972,"text":"當初就我所知一定都做過這種審查真的嗎 好來一定有 但是這個所謂的審查就是說當事人要簽切結書是 你們切結書長什麼樣子不用給我個人寫的切結書啦個人的切結書有簽名的我都尊重啦公版的切結書可以給我看嗎"},{"start":15544.227,"end":15565.415,"text":"這一部分我到公版的切結書就是空白的嘛就是沒有簽名那一種嘛你要切結上述事項我沒有違反利益衝突迴避原則的那個空白的公版切結書可以給我嗎好 我們請好 我今天在這邊質詢公開檢舉啊裡面有人看不下去啊直接跟我投訴啊裡面"},{"start":15568.717,"end":15597.117,"text":"有一個學倫審理委員會大會的委員是一個律師啦怎麼學倫會去找律師來當委員我也是搞不太清楚啊但沒有關係啦我尊重你們的篩選啊雖然作為一位法律系的教授中研院的研究員學倫大會這種level的東西去找律師啊來當委員我已經覺得很扯了結果你知道嗎"},{"start":15599.148,"end":15625.863,"text":"這個律師啊學倫大會啊 參與的這個律師他就是那個當事人擔任董事那家公司的訴訟代理人知道這件事嗎可以 可以這樣嗎我再簡單的描述一下是什麼法律關係的狀態啊這個當事人就是江雅琪啦是台電的董事結果學倫"},{"start":15629.229,"end":15648.574,"text":"大會裡面的委員而且當初是主導推翻法律學門決議的那個委員是拿台電的錢在幫台電當法律顧問處理訴訟的人他看到當事人這個學輪大會被指責的人是我的客戶的董事我的國科會是出了什麼事情啊"},{"start":15660.421,"end":15678.798,"text":"那個應該是要作為全國學者的表率耶學術倫理的標竿耶結果學倫大會去找了一個被評判的人當董事公司的訴訟代理人來這個有沒有違反利益衝突迴避原則來 請教主委"},{"start":15680.952,"end":15701.805,"text":"我們國會定的學術倫理在審查委員要迴避的這些原則應該當初都是非常明確啦但是我請我們那個主秘他現在監我們的那個好來請回答這個召集人來回答一下"},{"start":15706.888,"end":15734.836,"text":"報告委員 我們在那個學倫審議料理第17點裡面有規定要相關迴避的事項但是委員剛剛提到的那個資訊我們那時候是沒有獲得這樣一個資訊沒有獲得這樣的資訊 奇怪了那位學倫委員他當哪一家公司的訴訟代理人 他自己不知道喔啊 我的當事人是誰 我不知道然後姜雅琪在台電當董事 我也不知道可以這樣混喔"},{"start":15736.311,"end":15737.452,"text":"可以這樣搞喔這丟臉啦把當初科技部的臉都丟光啦我這幾天收到我多少以前法學界的朋友傳來給我的訊息啊說怎麼會扯成這個樣子啊找一個訴訟代理人來"},{"start":15759.66,"end":15770.67,"text":"領前的訴訟代理人去推翻七位法學教授所做違反學倫的認定主委這件事不需要檢討嗎如果有違反學術倫理的事情有明確的證據那我們當然也許要再檢討需要多久"},{"start":15789.466,"end":15809.44,"text":"這個我現在是給你時間啦我本來以為你充分已經很準備已經很充足了啦那顯然還沒有掌握全部的狀況嘛那你說你要再回去調查OK我給你時間需要多久不要跟我說要三個月再一個月好了蛤 還要一個月喔兩個禮拜可以嗎"},{"start":15810.66,"end":15835.721,"text":"一個月好了啦 因為好 一個月 反正立法院研會啊我給你一個月今年夏天我等著你這件事情我一定會追到底我雖然雖然已經沒有在法學界了但出現這種荒腔走板離譜至極的事情我一定會追究責任到底好 謝謝委員之前科技部啊知道這個事情馬蜂窩捅大了你知道發生什麼事嗎"},{"start":15840.573,"end":15865.807,"text":"發生的事情是啥學倫大會沒有遵守利益關係迴避的原則推翻了法律專業學門從由召集人所自己召集的調查小組的決議結果跑出來找綠媒側翼幫他洗地說他被汙止是設假的他哪有被汙止設假你床頭大會都是假的啊"},{"start":15869.244,"end":15889.953,"text":"不是有這種護航的事情出來大學生都有辦法判斷結果學倫大會演示成這個樣子護航成這個樣子還讓人家出來說哇 科技部啊 還我清白啦結果那時候的科技部部長看到知識體大"},{"start":15891.57,"end":15914.026,"text":"看到這個新聞出來了以後趕快發一個聲明啊說沒有沒有沒有這個學歷是造假的傷害學術信譽可能影響學術資源分配的公正性事後趕快發聲明稿我看了科技部後來發的那個聲明稿我看了就我不曉得是可笑還是可悲連科技部自己都知道有問題"},{"start":15919.484,"end":15922.167,"text":"趕快發一個聲明啦出來洗地當初的錯誤一直延續到今天有一些是總統府該負的責任"},{"start":15933.321,"end":15948.611,"text":"總統府副秘書長跟我說他們會回去處理給我一個回覆我到目前為止沒有接到回覆有一些是教育部該處理的我昨天已經質詢了教育部部長會回去處理那有一些"},{"start":15950.003,"end":15977.549,"text":"是國科會作為接任科技部業務的主管機關我知道不是在您任內發生的那但是這件事情一定要處理那順便講第二個層次從這個個案裡面我所看到的抽象性的問題什麼叫抽象性的問題啊主委我簡單的花一點時間給你解釋因為當初啊這一個人"},{"start":15978.669,"end":16002.277,"text":"吹哨者他要檢舉這整件事情的時候他要確認說他交給科技部的那個履歷表上面也造假因為他看到在大學端申請的資料是假的他要確認科技部的是不是也是假的所以呢他就要去找他給科技部的資料給科技部的資料科技部提供"},{"start":16003.32,"end":16022.659,"text":"所有計畫的申請人一個選項就是你可以選擇不要公開個人資料的主要學歷我其實有一點看不太懂我們科技部讓國科會計畫的申請人可以拒絕公開自己的最高學歷理由是什麼"},{"start":16025.13,"end":16046.252,"text":"我們第一就是尊重我們所有的學者他要不要公開包含電話號碼電話號碼 柱子要不要公開這個我覺得都要尊重啊這個沒有問題啊但是主要最高學歷是他的credential"},{"start":16047.253,"end":16076.116,"text":"是他的credential欸是那個我今天如果請教主委學歷喔你的最高學歷你會跟我說這個是你的隱私嗎不是學歷有時候那個學者公開的時候是他的畢業的到底是博士碩士還是學士還有他畢業的學校是是是有時候是這樣那我們也同意他不見得會公佈到他畢業的這個就是我的問題嘛院系所不見得啦你要來拿國家的資源"},{"start":16077.097,"end":16091.845,"text":"然後你要展示你的最高學歷是什麼這個到底會侵害到什麼權益我聽不懂啦不是啦我們學者公開說他不見得會寫他的畢業的系索他到學校一定會寫啦博士說是"},{"start":16093.445,"end":16120.171,"text":"你說學校一定會寫嘛一定會寫學校嘛哪個學校畢業一定要寫嘛不然那個主委你是學界出身的嗎我學界出身所以是很普遍的所以你應該很熟嘛我很熟你有審過任何的application沒有提供最高學歷是什麼的嗎審查委員一定看得到啦審查委員一定看得到讓他公開給大眾的不見其他社會大眾不用知道不一定啦 不一定要知道學生也不用知道"},{"start":16121.084,"end":16143.688,"text":"不需要啊 因為他申請的是國科會的研究計畫當然我們的委員一定都會看到他的資料至於那個學者要不要公開是他自己來決定我先講一下啦 主委你有你的立場跟看法我的立場跟看法在這邊也表白得很清楚了到底誰的立場有道理"},{"start":16145.151,"end":16165.397,"text":"全國的學術界所有的學子大家都心裡有一把尺第二個層次的問題他去跟國科會申請申請什麼申請政府資訊公開他選擇不公開嘛但是一般的社會大眾可以按照政府資訊公開法向政府機關申請要公開嘛我昨天問個人資料保護委員會籌備處的主任"},{"start":16177.854,"end":16191.709,"text":"說這個依照申請為什麼可以不用公開他說這個是資料保存機關意思就是當時的科技部他們所做的決定但我看到有關於"},{"start":16194.574,"end":16207.952,"text":"政府資訊公開法的規定我已經依照政府資訊公開法跟科技部或者是現在的國會申請要公開拒絕公開是依照政府資訊公開法的哪一條"},{"start":16211.26,"end":16228.611,"text":"主委你聽得懂我的意思嗎剛剛我上一個層次跟你講的是學術界大家評價的問題現在我跟你回到法規層面的問題法規層面的問題你們當初我後來把公文跟吹哨者要了公文來當時的部長叫吳政宗"},{"start":16234.282,"end":16262.706,"text":"他說我部分提供限制使用但我不提供他主要學歷的資訊那我看了半天紅框我框起來了這是科技部當初的公文人家依照政府資訊公開法申請了我們的科技部說我們不提供他主要學歷的資訊那我現在問題就來了回到政府資訊公開法不提供主要學歷的資訊他的法規依據是什麼"},{"start":16266.175,"end":16285.123,"text":"如果這個牽涉到國會當初讓學者來填他自己的履歷我們也允許他可以決定哪些要公開哪些不公開我這樣講好了啦如果這個是可以自己決定的事啊我們政府資訊公開法直接丟到垃圾桶裡面去了啦"},{"start":16286.957,"end":16309.454,"text":"政府資訊公開法裡面就會有一款啊說當事人不想公開就不公開啊不是 那你如果說像各自的部分政府也無權幫民眾所以我還要跟你回到法律的部分嘛因為你現在用common sense在跟我講這件事情我很難跟你討論啊所以我們就回到政府資訊公開法你是依照第幾條第幾款的規定不公開"},{"start":16311.343,"end":16337.551,"text":"好 那我 因為我本身不是寫法沒關係 可以 可以 來 請 請 請來 請報告委員 就是如果照政府資訊公開法現在是第18條的第6款其實就是剛剛我們主委提到來 我們把第6款唸一下政府資訊屬於下列各款情況之一因限制公開或不予提供你剛剛講的第6款來 第6款法條文字我唸給你看"},{"start":16338.963,"end":16352.373,"text":"公開或提供有侵害個人隱私職業上秘密或著作權人的公開發表者但對公益有必要不再實現我把法條弄給你看"},{"start":16353.55,"end":16377.218,"text":"我們在討論法律的時候基本上分兩個結構一個結構符不符合本文的規定如果符合本文的規定再看有沒有但書的例外這個很基本啦我先跟你討論主文的規定要求他公開他的學歷是會侵害到他的隱私職業上秘密或著作權人的公開發表權嗎"},{"start":16379.21,"end":16401.064,"text":"報告委員 就剛剛我們主委提到就是我們剛剛的前提那個問題就是他為什麼可以選擇公開或不公開其實就是因為他的各種學歷會牽涉到個人的隱私隱私嘛 好 沒有關係啦你今天在國會裡面的詢答都會成為立法院公報的記錄那第二個 對公共利益沒有必要嗎"},{"start":16405.57,"end":16417.141,"text":"如果資料可以這樣遮影的話那我簡單這樣講啦我以後提供給國科會的我愛怎麼寫就怎麼寫啊我愛怎麼寫就怎麼寫啊工作沒有辦法監督啊"},{"start":16418.103,"end":16447.703,"text":"因為我可以選擇不公開啊我跟國會申請國會也不會給我啊沒有人會知道工作沒有辦法監督上面寫的是不是假的嗎報告委員不會這樣子啦我們現在如果說像他這樣填報可能與事實不符的話最後他自己還是要負擔這些後果嗎沒有啊他最後什麼後果都沒負擔啊你們的學倫大會說他不用負擔任何後果啊我有說錯嗎我們有請他更正了啦"},{"start":16449.164,"end":16473.345,"text":"所以我們現在國科會跟科技部的標準是被我們抓到以後事後更正就好是這樣嗎委員剛剛講了說那個公眾利益的事情那我們的看法可能會不太一樣如果說覺得說依照公眾利益這個我們可以在法庭判決不是啦 我就簡單講啦我們目前行政機關對政府資訊公開法的運作"},{"start":16476.297,"end":16493.047,"text":"保守到令人難以想像是從美國FOIA抄來的抄來以後運作到保守難以想像但是在欺負什麼事情欺負一般的人沒有那個勞力時間費用去跟政府打行政訴訟我簡單講就是這樣啦非常少數的人願意花那個勞力時間費用去跟政府打官司 為什麼因為政府打官司 政府的律師誰出錢"},{"start":16507.352,"end":16531.674,"text":"是大歲人出錢我去跟政府打官司誰要出錢我自己要出錢這是為什麼我們各自有關於政府資訊公開在行政法院的訴訟案件量那麼低如果因為當事人這樣的這個作為影響到公眾利益有人要來提出訴訟國會一定會配合的啦我這樣講好了啦這個是吹哨者"},{"start":16532.574,"end":16554.54,"text":"到處跟你們申請的不會的公文也在那邊了我只拜託主委回去啦好好重新思考一下回去好好重新思考一下因為我們真的在意的是什麼真的在意的是台灣學術界的integrity跟reputation這我同意好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝黃國昌委員質詢官員請回座"},{"start":16564.079,"end":16579.806,"text":"今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另有謝榮介委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議做如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":16580.846,"end":16606.477,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關緊述以書面答覆114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會解凍案22案業與審查完略均准與動之提報院會報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}