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抱怨會 現在我們進行國事論壇首先請張智仁委員發言徐議政委員請準備院長 各位同仁 各位媒體朋友大家早安 大家好"},{"start":1806.055,"end":1823.986,"text":"最近中央又拋出要推動全台中正路改名的政策說這是人權問題不應該因經費多就猶豫本席想問民眾生活壓力如此之大民進黨政府有沒有搞清楚民眾真正在乎的是什麼"},{"start":1824.907,"end":1843.62,"text":"根據內政部資料統計全台至少有超過300條中正路影響的不但是幾戶人家更是上萬甚至數十萬的住民與商家中正路改名一旦推動凡是涉及於中正路的住戶與公司都會被波及"},{"start":1844.46,"end":1858.701,"text":"包含身份證戶口名簿土地權狀稅單交通站牌營業登記帳單地址等通通都會跟著變人民光是要改資料換證件就要花多少時間以及金錢成本"},{"start":1859.722,"end":1880.639,"text":"雖然內政部近日改口表示改名將由地方政府來主責依法溝通取得共識後再推動但政策還沒開始啟動我們看到的卻是地方政府已承受龐大的壓力民眾也開始恐慌未來是否要跑證件換地址改公司資料等等"},{"start":1881.46,"end":1905.836,"text":"根據網路民調顯示有超過七成的民眾反對改名這樣的結果不是民眾不重視轉型正義而是大家覺得回歸現實生活比較重要這些中正路早就變成大家生活習慣中的地址了根本不會聯想到這是威權象徵政府硬是要改名對人生一點幫助都沒有"},{"start":1906.736,"end":1931.429,"text":"雖然過去改道路改名有成功的例子像是台北軍公路改成和平東路四段但這項改名已經歷清了17年經過在地民眾七成以上的支持才一步一步完成這樣的方式才叫民主程序尊重民意而不是現在這種由上而下中央拍板強迫地方政府來執行"},{"start":1933.203,"end":1956.813,"text":"本席要強調的是轉型正義不是表面撕掉標籤更不能簡化為改革名字就能解決歷史問題民眾真正期待的是政府確實還原歷史真相踏實來推動歷史教育讓社會大眾從各個角度來理解不同觀點而不是一再拋出口號政策來挑撥族群對立"},{"start":1957.853,"end":1981.72,"text":"本席在此提醒耐心的總統及民進黨政府真正要傾聽地方的聲音尊重民眾的感受不要再以政治正確包裝行政霸道請站在民意的角度民眾的角度重新思考政策方向民眾真的要的是安心的生活而不是一再的政治操作對於中正路改名全民拒絕買單謝謝"},{"start":1986.61,"end":2006.396,"text":"謝謝張哲騰委員發言接下來我們請徐宇貞委員發言葛如君委員請準備報告委員會現在在我們議場二樓旁聽的是來自於台北市京華國中的同學我們掌聲歡迎啊歡迎你們來立法院好 請徐宇貞委員請發言"},{"start":2012.215,"end":2019.101,"text":"謝謝主席還有金華國中的同學們大家早監察院本應是監督施政"},{"start":2020.527,"end":2047.141,"text":"政府施政 纠正维持的宪政机构今天不仅沦为民进党酬庸安插自己人的政治工具还接连地爆出秘书长 监委滥用公务车的事件当一个原本被赋予纠正百官曾经立志职责的宪政机关却沦为特权与酬庸的温床那么它的存在便不再是为民主把关而是为腐败护航"},{"start":2048.542,"end":2067.378,"text":"當公堂成為特權階級的私人物品,當公權力的界限模糊至苟也能使用,公民尊嚴與法律公信將蕩然無存。金財運的墮落不僅反映體制的弊端,更顯示我國勵志深受政黨政治與權貴結構的毒害與侵蝕。"},{"start":2070.16,"end":2094.426,"text":"民主制度的價值在於讓權力來自於人民並且用來服務人民但監察院秘書長李俊毅動用公務車接送自家的愛犬去做美容這種只會出現在鄉土劇中的荒唐劇情竟然在現實生活中上演這不是一場單純的道德爭議而是對人民權力的赤裸挑戰"},{"start":2095.626,"end":2124.442,"text":"也是對整個國家制度的無情消費更反映出民進黨政權的傲慢與墮落監察院濫用特權之所以引發民怨不在於一隻狗是否有舒適的待遇而是在於這個待遇竟然是來自於全民納稅的公務資源來自一個口口聲聲說沒有預算買衛生紙的監察院李俊英一邊高喊預算困難一邊濫用公務車載狗去美容"},{"start":2125.422,"end":2143.973,"text":"卓榮泰院長則是以政府的預算不足為理由故意刪減要撥給地方政府的一般性補助款636億元一邊阻礙社福資源與地方的建設一邊卻對高官濫用的公器視若無睹民進黨的這種價值落差令人不齒"},{"start":2145.287,"end":2161.619,"text":"李俊逸的狗不是一隻狗而已而是民進黨政權囂張與鍛煉民心的象徵孟子說 民為貴 社稷次之 君為親今天在民進黨執政下已經變成了民進黨為貴 狗次之 人民為親"},{"start":2163.62,"end":2191.281,"text":"當監察院高官的愛犬可以享受政府車隊的接送而平民百姓卻為三餐奔波為孩子的補習費煩惱這樣的社會還有公平與正義可言嗎李俊逸雖然請辭斷尾求生但其他的監委呢此案涉及的刑事責任請減掉要積極的偵辦不要遇到民進黨的高官就腿軟了謝謝"},{"start":2195.592,"end":2195.932,"text":"大家好"},{"start":2213.908,"end":2232.203,"text":"昨天晚上核彈級的數位信任大爆炸Google公告自7月31日起Chrome瀏覽器將全面撤銷對中華電信以及它的政府鏈也就是行政院的憑證以及新簽發憑證的預設信任"},{"start":2234.565,"end":2263.785,"text":"到時候如果相關的網站為及時換證各位在網址列看到的將不再是安全鎖而可能是整頁的紅色警告甚至整頁內容被阻擋谷歌說中華電信合規通報延遲撤銷不及 揭露不透明造成了誠信喪失一句話台灣關股電信與最高行政機關對全球第一大瀏覽器來說不再值得信任"},{"start":2264.805,"end":2282.258,"text":"這不只是技術問題而是國安、資安、民眾信任的超大警訊喊了那麼久的數位信任全民防詐如果連憑證流程都做不好人民要如何相信政府能夠守得住資安詐騙沒有等人"},{"start":2282.998,"end":2309.425,"text":"根據相關的報告台灣電話個資外洩率高達62.4%亞洲第二但是五月份一個禮拜人民就被騙走21億台幣在這樣的高風險之下我們需要創新科技主動出擊我們看到國際上最新的例子剛登上時代雜誌封面的World計畫以及OpenAI創辦人Sam Altman2019年創辦的公司"},{"start":2310.405,"end":2328.216,"text":"利用匿名紅魔掃描以及零知識證明技術在一千一百多個站點驗證你是真人而且是唯一資料即掃即刪不留個資Visa Stripe Shopify Razer乃至Tinder都準備導入"},{"start":2329.296,"end":2348.786,"text":"以主角AI冒充黃牛搶票台灣本土新創Google Look也參與在相關的運用AI科技來主角防炸打炸這些都是政府應該要主動結合放大招商合作的戰略工具"},{"start":2349.466,"end":2367.319,"text":"因此我在此希望提出三點呼籲第一點全面換證公佈進度行政院與中華電信應該要儘速完成憑證替換並且公開時間表與責任人還人民一個看得到的安全鎖"},{"start":2368.393,"end":2393.722,"text":"第二點 建立可信任身份計畫參考World零知識驗證等技術引入產學研測試場域讓金融 電商 社群平台可以快速導入打炸 防炸第三點 強化公司協作監理以先進打炸計畫來協助台灣推動台灣成為AI防炸先進科技之島謝謝大家"},{"start":2399.358,"end":2406.351,"text":"谢谢葛如君委员的发言报告会我们现在登记国事论坛的发言均已发言完毕现在休息"},{"start":5380.93,"end":5381.491,"text":"出席委員78人已足法定人數"},{"start":5392.421,"end":5419.269,"text":"我們現在開會進行報告事項請民主黨宣讀第三會期第十三次會議議事錄宣讀立法院第十一屆第三會期第十三次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年五月二十三日上午九十至九十二十三分四十至十二十一分下午二十三十分至五十十二分五月二十七日上午九十至十時地點本業一場出席委員吳委員中線等一百十三年"},{"start":5420.109,"end":5436.678,"text":"主席 院長韓國瑜 報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第三位及第十二次會議事路決定確定第二至十八二十至二十五三十至一百零一一百零三至三百七十四案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會"},{"start":5437.819,"end":5463.625,"text":"第十九二六至二十九案均決定經貿奪取相關提案並且協商第百零二案決定同意撤回第三百七十五至三百七十九案為交通委員會等所提出報告案諮詢事項行政財達後部分七件討論事項第一案決議互議案不通過第二案決議交互財政委員會審查第三六案均決議協商後再行處理第四五案"},{"start":5464.545,"end":5482.438,"text":"均決議通過其他四項各黨團分別提議出變更議程均予以通過宣讀完畢抱怨匯報針對第三會期第十三次會議的意思錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們先來做一下決定第三會期第十三次會議意思錄確定請宣讀第二案"},{"start":5484.085,"end":5484.946,"text":"全院會有異議無異議通過下案"},{"start":5494.588,"end":5513.127,"text":"第三案本月五月零一警的二十七人離聚詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第四十七條條文修正草案柴旭委員會監交內政委員會審查宣讀完畢第四案本月五月零一警的二十六人離聚人工智慧基本法草案柴旭委員會監交教育及文化交通良務委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":5514.528,"end":5536.054,"text":"第五案 本院委員賴月龍等17人離聚因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性特別條例草案陳秀園會建交經濟財政兩委員會審查 宣言為畢報告四項第五案現由民進黨團體金富二讀與相關提案並案協商請委員會有異議免議本案金富二讀與相關提案並案協商下一項"},{"start":5536.616,"end":5556.789,"text":"第六案 本院委員廖偉祥等17人離聚偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案陳修緣會監教教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢第七案 本院委員廖偉祥等16人離聚中華民國新法第77條條文修正草案陳修緣會監教司法及法制委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":5557.89,"end":5583.904,"text":"第八案本院委員梁偉祥的十六人理據中華民國新法第286條條文修正常案陳秀永會監交司法及法治委員會審查宣言為必第九案本院委員羅志祥的十六人理據公寓大廈管理條例第26條條文修正常案陳秀永會監交內政委員會審查宣言為必第十案本院委員羅志祥的十六人理據住宅法第40條及第43條條文修正常案陳秀永會監交內政委員會審查宣言為必"},{"start":5587.446,"end":5605.16,"text":"第十一案 本院委員羅志祥的十六日理據 動物保護法第23條條文修正草案 陳秀英會見交經濟委員會審查 宣告完畢第十二案 本院委員羅志祥的十八日理據 有新農業促進法第五條條文修正草案 陳秀英會見交經濟委員會審查 宣告完畢"},{"start":5606.181,"end":5624.184,"text":"第十三案 北約委員羅志強的十六人理據中華民國刑法第286條條文修正常案 財修委員會建交司法及法制委員會審查 宣言完畢第十四案 北約委員賴慧媛的十七人理據定言法第52條條文修正常案 財修委員會建交經濟委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5625.265,"end":5627.646,"text":"第十五案第十六案無依通過宣言無依通過宣言"},{"start":5648.251,"end":5672.077,"text":"第十七案本優委員張家俊等18日離聚中華民國新法第212條及第214條條文修正常案程序委員會監交司法及法制委員會審查宣言完畢無疑通過下言第十八案本優委員張家俊等18日離聚氣候變遷應用法部份條文修正常案程序委員會監交社會福利及優先環境經濟產生內政交通教育及文化領舞委員會審查宣言完畢無疑通過下言"},{"start":5672.617,"end":5675.019,"text":"五一通過下言五一通過下言五一通過下言"},{"start":5700.876,"end":5727.496,"text":"第二十二案 本用原油耗的水性人力具住宅法第四條條文修正常案 財政委員會建交內政委員會審查 宣布完畢第二十三案 本用原油耗的水性人力具貨物稅條例第十一條之一條文修正常案 財政委員會建交財政委員會審查 宣布完畢報告事項第二十三案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商請問院會有異議滅議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商 下議案"},{"start":5727.881,"end":5752.51,"text":"第24案 本月有以有耗等17人離聚 學校營養午餐及食品安全衛生管理方草案 陳修援會監教教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢第25案 本月有以有耗等18人離聚 道路交通管理處罰條例第21條等無修正草案 陳修援會監教交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢第26案 本月有以有耗等17人離聚 兒童托育多元服務方草案"},{"start":5752.91,"end":5773.255,"text":"前衆委員會監教社會福利及歐洲環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十七案本院委員有候的17人理據《社會救助法》第五條之一及第五條之二條文修正草案前衆委員會監教社會福利及歐洲環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十八案本院委員邱志偉的19人理據《國家安全法》第二條及第七條條文修正草案"},{"start":5773.815,"end":5791.472,"text":"財修委員會監交內政委員會審查 虛擬外幣 第29案本月委員黃婕等16人離聚 個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案財修委員會監交經濟委員會審查 虛擬外幣 第30案本月委員林月琴等21人離聚 老人福利法陣地第25條之一及第25條之二條文草案"},{"start":5792.773,"end":5793.574,"text":"委員會審查第31案委員會審查第31案"},{"start":5813.148,"end":5813.589,"text":"第33案維吾爾沙雅"},{"start":5829.628,"end":5846.909,"text":"第34案 本院委員王世堅的17人理據 台灣地區道路地區人民關係條例第35條條文修正常案 財政委員會監交內政委員會審查 宣傳完畢第35案 本院委員王世堅的17人理據 電子支付機構管理條例第15條條文修正常案 財政委員會監交財政委員會審查 宣傳完畢"},{"start":5849.972,"end":5869.585,"text":"第36案 本郵由王世堅的16人離去文化創意產業發展法第10條之一條文修正常案 採修委員會建交以及文化委員會審查 宣布通過下頁第37案 本郵由王世堅的17人離去道路交通管理處罰條例第92條條文修正常案 採修委員會建交交通委員會審查 宣布通過下頁"},{"start":5870.245,"end":5898.864,"text":"第三十八案 本院委員王世堅等十六人連續老年農民福利階 天順寫條例第二條及第四條條務修正草案前處委員會監交社會福利及衛生環境基金內政三委員會審查 宣布完畢第三十九案 本院委員徐宇珍等十七人連續個人資料保護委員會組織法草案前處委員會監交司法及法治經濟兩委員會審查 宣布完畢報告院會報告事項第三十九案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":5900.486,"end":5903.05,"text":"沒有異議 本案即覆二讀 與相關提案並在協商下"},{"start":5903.615,"end":5932.007,"text":"第四選案 本區委員吳佩儀等學習委員離聚公務人員保障法部判條文修正草案柴修委員會監教司法及法治委員會審查宣讀完畢第四選案 本區委員吳佩儀等二學生離聚公務人員考棋法第十六條條文修正草案柴修委員會監教司法及法治委員會審查宣讀完畢第四選案 本區委員張志倫等學習委員離聚運動產業發展條例第十三條第二十六條及第二十六條修正條文修正草案柴修委員會監教教育及文化委員會審查"},{"start":5934.227,"end":5955.192,"text":"第四十三案 本院院員徐宇珍的二十人凝聚 國軍退出官兵輔導條例 增訂第二十七條 第二條文章案 請學院委員會建交 外交及國防委員會審查報告事項第四十三案 現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商 請學院委員會有異議沒有異議 本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商 下一項"},{"start":5955.697,"end":5976.572,"text":"第44案 本院委員徐宇珍的20人凝聚 均責單一條例第4條及第6條等我修正草案 陳書援會監交外交及國防司法及法治 兩院會審查 宣布外幣法院會報告事項第44案 現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商 請委員會有異議面議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商 下一案"},{"start":5977.096,"end":5993.944,"text":"第四十五案北約委員許新穎的十六日連續勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正常案甲屬委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣言為通過宣言第四十六案北約委員許新穎的十八日連續學生衛生法第十六條及第六十三條條文修正常案"},{"start":5994.484,"end":6021.193,"text":"財修委員會建交教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十七案本院委員學習營的十八案人力具使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案財修委員會建交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十八案本院委員莫小林的十六案人力具社會救助法第五條第二條文修正草案財修委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十九案本院委員李燕秀的十六案人力具兒童托育服務法草案"},{"start":6021.733,"end":6040.658,"text":"陳修緣會監交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第五十案本院委員邱昇俊的十八案例據建築法第六十三條及第八十九條條文修正草案陳修緣會監交內政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第五十一案本院委員邱昇俊的十九案例據建築法第七十七條條文修正草案"},{"start":6040.998,"end":6041.859,"text":"委員會審查第五十二案委員會審查委員會審查"},{"start":6065.413,"end":6088.022,"text":"第五十四案 北域委員羅美玲等16人聯聚 外國專業人才延攬及雇用法修正草案 財修委員會監教經濟社會福利及衛生環境教育及文化三委委員會審查 宣讀完畢第五十五案 北域委員陳廷飛等16人聯聚 老年農民福利津貼遵行條例第四條條務修正草案 財修委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6089.082,"end":6091.305,"text":"第五十六案第五十七案第五十七案"},{"start":6108.283,"end":6128.482,"text":"第五十八案本日委員會離昆城的十九人鄰居運動產業發展條例第十三條第二十六條及第二十六條之二條維修正常案請衆議院會監教教育及文化委員會審查宣傳並不予通過下言第五十九案本日委員會洪維尼撤回前提之不在籍投票房從案案請衆議院會監理情務會統一撤回宣傳並不予通過下言"},{"start":6129.002,"end":6131.403,"text":"第六十一案第六十一案第六十一案第六十一案"},{"start":6157.734,"end":6172.222,"text":"第六十三案 國防部函送國軍團體意外保險辦法 陳修援會 建交外交及國防委員會 宣傳完畢第六十四案 農業部函收拾太平洋黑尾漁撈作業管理辦法 陳修援會 建交經濟委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6175.151,"end":6189.376,"text":"第六十五案 農業部函宋羽羊漁業條例第四條 最一定項 不得進口之漁獲 物獲與產品 陳修緣會兼交經濟委員會 宣傳片第六十六案 農業部函宋植物診療宣傳書與職業執照及植物診療機構看業執照收費標準 陳修緣會兼交經濟委員會 宣傳片"},{"start":6195.598,"end":6211.13,"text":"第67案 農業部海維修任投資經營非我國籍漁船管理條例第八條第一項第18款非防衛報告及不受違反漁撈作業漁船名單附件一至附件十三請學員會見交經濟委員會訊息完畢第68案 經濟海維營國內經濟情況條件物資供應進口黃豆小麥玉米三項貨物應徵之營業稅自114年4月1日起至114年9月30日至機動條件百分之百"},{"start":6226.781,"end":6241.227,"text":"第69案 交通部海外修正交通部促進公共運輸使用補助辦法第2條 第3條及第4條條文財修委員會兼交交通委員會 宣布完畢第67案 行政院公共工程委員會海外修正電子採購作業辦法部分條文"},{"start":6241.927,"end":6268.637,"text":"陳書永會兼交沙東委員會 宣准迴避第七許願經濟部海維修生經濟部能源署初步規程第六條第四條及第十八條條文陳書永會兼交司法及法治經濟兩委員會宣准迴避第七許願衛生福利部海維修生要事法第102條所稱無要事人員職業之平原地區與非屬上述平原地區列表附表十三及全民健康保險系醫療資源部署地區改善方案選擇地點"},{"start":6269.737,"end":6298.357,"text":"連署要事法第102條所稱無要事人員職業之偏遠地區列表附表2採訊委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言迴避無疑通過下議案第73案衛生福利部海外修正全面健康保險醫療服務及副項目及支付標準共同擬定辦法第三條指定清調條文採訊委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言迴避抱怨會第73案由國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下議案"},{"start":6298.803,"end":6307.895,"text":"第七十四案 環境部海維修正溫室氣體潤潤機構及產業機構管理奔放部分調溫甲醜委員會及教授會府以及溫泉環境委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":6309.095,"end":6330.3,"text":"辦議會第七十四案 現有國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案第七十五案 環境部還送資源性甩品 探測機合訂標示及管理辦法 結束委員會 接交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣言完畢辦議會第七十五案 有國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":6330.748,"end":6353.418,"text":"第七十六案 環境母海自動排放管道中總碳氫化合物等自動檢測方法 涉算火焰磷子化專測法 NIA-72376B 柴旭委員會 建交社會福利基金會上環境委員會 宣傳B第七十七案 環境母海會廢止排放管道中總碳氫化合物及非講文總碳氫化合物含量自動檢測方法 涉算火焰磷子化專測法"},{"start":6354.338,"end":6355.099,"text":"委員通過下言委員通過下言"},{"start":6371.92,"end":6385.867,"text":"第一簽署檢案環境物海衛廢止排放管道中總碳氫化合物及非甲烷總碳氫化合物含量自動檢測方法出美轉化法NIEA758.70B採取委員會尖叫社會福利及物相環境委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6387.079,"end":6415.088,"text":"委員通過報議院會第83到193案依序宣讀其中第84到8298到101116122123132134案台灣民眾黨黨團體改交審查宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查其餘的議案均照程序委員會意見通過請問院會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀宣讀之後通過"},{"start":6416.4,"end":6422.368,"text":"第八十案 內宣部第八六案 國軍退出官兵輔導委員會第八八案 國家發展委員會第九十案 農業部第九十案 經濟部第一八案 金融監督管理委員會第一二三案 國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":6434.403,"end":6436.124,"text":"歡迎回第一百四十案以下一併宣讀宣讀之後均准以備查請宣讀"},{"start":6452.935,"end":6473.477,"text":"第一次領恩至第166案為本院司法及法治內政 密內政 社會福利基督上環境參選教育及文化 外交及國防 密外交及國防經濟委員會衡為用會將不處理行政院人事行政總署 114年度中央政府準算決議等案 業餘處理文具第167案為本院外交及國防委員會衡 為用會將不審查外交部等111至1"},{"start":6475.379,"end":6475.399,"text":"好"},{"start":6500.989,"end":6520.545,"text":"我们现在请所有党团干部10点30分至主席后面的休息室进行后续议程的讨论沟通现在休息"},{"start":9137.281,"end":9164.07,"text":"抱怨會我們現在繼續開會處理變更議程現有變更議程黨團共事如下各黨團同意討論事項第四案不需要協商之保險法修正案列為討論事項第一案其餘的議案均依序排列抱怨會我們本次會議的議程就照上開黨團共事進行處理現在我們進行討論事項"},{"start":9167.076,"end":9187.643,"text":"第一案 保險法部分條文修正草案 請宣讀審查報告本院財政委員會於114年5月14日舉行全體委員會議進行審查會議由賴兆集委員會員擔任主席金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金龍等應邀列席說明備詢"},{"start":9189.224,"end":9189.684,"text":"我們現在請召集委員賴會員委員補充說明"},{"start":9214.482,"end":9227.79,"text":"沒有補充說明我們本案經審查會決議我們不再交由黨團協商請問院會有沒有異議沒有異議本案經審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論保險法請宣讀增訂第123條之一"},{"start":9229.639,"end":9258.273,"text":"第123條之一要保人為債務人之人壽保險契約更有效契約之節約金債權金額位於最近一年衛生福利部或直轄市政府所公告每人每月最低生活費1.2倍計算之6個月金額中最高標準者不得作為扣押或強制執行之標的主管機關為推動提升基本保險保障政策公告之人壽保險契約其節約金債權不得作為扣押或強制執行之標的"},{"start":9259.153,"end":9288.221,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第123條之二第123條之二保險事故發生前邀保人為債務人之人壽保險契約之節約金債權金扣押邀保人受破產宣告或經依消費者債務清理條例裁定開始清算或更生程序時下列各款之人取得邀保人及被保險人書面同意並向執行機關或執行命令所指定之人"},{"start":9288.721,"end":9306.532,"text":"支付已保险契约终止后预计可获保险人偿付之节约金额度者可以书面通知保险人变更为新邀保人1.对被保险人有保险利益者2.邀保人具名指定之受益人3.邀保人或被保险人之配偶父母或子女"},{"start":9306.992,"end":9335.498,"text":"前項通知保險人變更為新邀保人應於該項鎖定事由發生之日起三個月內為之並於書面通知送達保險人之日起申變更邀保人之相例本法中華民國一百十四年六月三日修正這條文實行前由第一項鎖定事由於修正實行後保險事故發生前該項鎖定各款之人等於修正實行之日起三個月內適用第一項及前項後段規定宣讀完畢"},{"start":9337.11,"end":9354.84,"text":"照审查会条文通过,请宣读真定第129条之一。第129条之一,要保人为债务人之健康保险契约之解约金债权,不能作为扣押或强制执行之标的。宣读完毕。照审查会条文通过,请宣读第130条。"},{"start":9356.383,"end":9385.838,"text":"第一百三十條 第一百零二條至第一百零五條第一百十五條 第一百十六條第一百二十二條 第一百二十三條及第一百二十四條於健康保險準用之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第一百三十二條之一第一百三十二條之一要保人為鑒武人質傷害保險契約之期約金債權不得作為控押或強制執行之標的宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第一百四十八條之三"},{"start":9386.414,"end":9414.313,"text":"第148条之三保险业应建立内幕控制及集合制度其办法由主管机关定制保险业对资产品质之评估各种准备性之提存与其放款催收款之清理单独之转销及保当之招揽和保理赔应建立内幕处理制度及程序其办法由主管机关定制保险业作业委托他人处理者保险业对委托事项范围客户权益保障风险管理及内幕控制原则"},{"start":9414.713,"end":9443.94,"text":"应建立内部作业制度及程序其办法由主管机关定制宣读IP在审查会条文通过请宣读第167条之一第167条之一为非本法制保险业或外国保险业代理经济或招揽保险业务者处属配合政府政策需要且进入主管机关公告制保险透过保险经纪人向国外制保险业投保者为处三点下游戏图形得宾客信贷币300万元以上2000万元下罚金"},{"start":9444.48,"end":9467.387,"text":"情節重大者能由主管機關對保險代理人、經紀人、公證人或兼營保險代理人或保險經紀人業務追銀行停止一部或全部業務或廢止許可並註銷職業執照法人是代表人、代理人、受僱人或其他從業人員應執行業務犯前項之罪者處處罰其行為人為對該法人一科該享受罰金"},{"start":9468.087,"end":9480.397,"text":"未領有職業執政而經營或執行保險代理人、經紀人、公證人、業務者處新台幣90萬元上900萬元相還款宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第168條之7刪除第170條之1維持現行條文請宣讀第171條之1"},{"start":9490.205,"end":9506.008,"text":"第171條之一保險業違反第148條之一定限貨第二項規定者除新台幣60萬元以上600萬元相反昏保險業違反第148條之二第一項規定為提供說明文件供長月或所提供是說明文件唯一規定記載"},{"start":9506.849,"end":9524.69,"text":"或所提供之說明文件記載不實處信台幣六十萬元上六百萬元相反昏保險業違反第148條主要電線規定為應線向主管機關報告或主動公開說明或向主管機關報告或公開說明這內容不實處信台幣三十萬元上三百萬元相反昏"},{"start":9525.211,"end":9542.562,"text":"保險業違反第148條之3D項規定為建立或為執行內幕控制或集合制度處心台幣60萬元以上1200萬元項返還保險業違反第148條之3D項規定為建立或為執行內幕處理制度或程序處心台幣60萬元以上1200萬元項返還保險業違反第148條之3D項規定為建立或為執行內幕租業制度或程序處心台幣60萬元以上1200萬元項返還宣讀完畢"},{"start":9555.169,"end":9583.347,"text":"照此他会条文通过抱怨会王世坚委员罗廷伟委员台湾民众党党团陈超明委员罗志强委员徐富奎委员李坤成委员赖瑞龙委员及王美惠委员等分别提案第174条之二及第174条之三我们均不予增订抱怨会全案已经经过二读现有民进党党团"},{"start":9584.608,"end":9591.505,"text":"提议继续进行三读请问愿会有无异议没有异议我们请宣读经过二读这条文"},{"start":9592.236,"end":9621.33,"text":"第123条之一要保人为债务人之人受保险契约各有项契约之节约净债权金额位于最近一年卫生福利部获取下市政府所公告每人每月最低生活费1.2倍计算之6个月金额中最高标准者不得作为扣押或强制止行之标的主横尽万为推动提升基本保险保障政策公告之人受保险契约其减约金债权不得作为扣押或强制止行之标的"},{"start":9622.51,"end":9648.223,"text":"第123条之二保险事故发生前邀保人为债务人之人寿保险契约之解约金债权金扣押邀保人受破产宣告或经依消费者债务清理条例裁定开水清算或更生程序时下列各款之人取得邀保人及被保险人书面同意并向执行机关或执行命令所决定之人支付以保险契约终止后预计可获"},{"start":9648.983,"end":9674.509,"text":"保险人偿付这节约金额度者得以书面通知保险人变更为新邀保人1.对被保险人有保险利益者2.邀保人具名指定追收已人3.邀保人或被保险人具配偶父母或子女请向通知保险人变更为新邀保人应于该项锁定使用发生之日起三个月内为之并于书面通知送达保险人之日起申辩跟邀保人之效力"},{"start":9675.049,"end":9690.337,"text":"本法中華民國一百十四年六月三日修正之條文實行前有第一項鎖定是由於修正實行後保險事故發生前該項鎖定樂觀之人等於修正實行諸日期三個月內適用第一項及前項後段規定"},{"start":9691.858,"end":9712.765,"text":"第129条之一 要保人为借物人之健康保险契约之解约性债权 不得作为扣押或抢这执行之标的第130条 第102条至第105条 第115条 第116条 第122条 第123条及第124条于健康保险准用之"},{"start":9714.105,"end":9742.768,"text":"第132條之一要保人未簽誤人之傷害保險契約之解約競債權不能作為控押或強制執行之標的第148條之三保險業應盡量力內部控制其結合制度其辦法由主管機關定之保險業對資產品質之評估各種準備金之提存與其分款催收款之清理待狀之轉修及保當之招攬和保理賠應盡量力內部處理制度及程序其辦法由主管機關定之"},{"start":9743.749,"end":9763.531,"text":"保险业作业委托他人处理者保险业对委托事项范围客户权益保障风险管理及内部控制原则应建立内部作业制度及程序及办法由主管机关定制第167条之一为非本法之保险业或外国保险业代理经济或招揽保险业务者"},{"start":9763.951,"end":9784.571,"text":"除除配合政府政策需要且經主管機關公告之保險透過保險經紀人向國外之保險業投保成位處三年項有期徒薪得併科新台幣300萬元以上2000萬元向罰金請結註納者得由主管機關對保險代理人、經紀人、公證人或兼營保險代理人或保險經紀人業務之銀行"},{"start":9786.733,"end":9809.052,"text":"停止一部或全部業務或廢止許可並註銷職業執照保障之間代表的代理人、受僱人或其他從業人員因執行業務犯前項之罪者處處罰其行為人為對該保障役科該項之罰金未領有職業執照而經營或執行保險代理人、經紀人、公認的業務者處心台幣90萬元以上、900萬元相還第168條 刪除"},{"start":9816.072,"end":9833.767,"text":"第171条之一保险业违反第148条之一第一项或第二项规定者除新台币60万元以上600万元项房还保险业违反第148条之二第一信用规定未提供说明文件供长月或所提供之说明文件为依规定积攒或所提供之"},{"start":9835.388,"end":9852.416,"text":"說明文件記載不實儲新台幣60萬元以上600萬元相反還保險業違反第148條之二第二項規定問一線上主管金管報告或主動公開說明或向主管金管報告或公開說明之內容不實儲新台幣30萬元以上300萬元相反還"},{"start":9853.897,"end":9882.588,"text":"保险业违反第148条之3D项规定未建立或未执行内部控制或进合制度处心台币60万元以上1200万元项返还保险业违反第148条之3D项规定未建立或未执行内部处理制度或程序处心台币60万元以上1200万元项返还保险业违反第148条之3D三项规定未建立或未执行内部作业制度或程序处心台币60万元以上1200万元项返还"},{"start":9883.979,"end":9898.543,"text":"宣讀完畢抱怨會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們現在做以下決議保險法增訂第123條之一第123條之二第129條之一及第132條之一條文"},{"start":9906.256,"end":9932.436,"text":"刪除第168条之7条文并将第130条148条之3第167条之1及第171条之1条文修正通过我们现在继续处理审查会所做之附带决议请议事人员宣读附带决议之内容"},{"start":9933.22,"end":9962.9,"text":"通過附帶決議一項請司法院督導所屬各法院應於本次保險法部分條文修正草案三讀通過並經總統公布後六個月八個月內對所申請強制執行之債務人於施行前能受扣押或強制執行中資保險契約金錢債權但依新法不得扣押或強制執行之保險契約且無人異議者完成撤銷扣押命令及強制執行之執行程序"},{"start":9964.741,"end":9986.67,"text":"請問會有意義沒有意義我們就照案通過我們現在進行完成立法程序之後黨團共事由國民黨團推派三位委員民進黨黨團推派三位委員台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位委員進行發言每位委員發言兩分鐘首先請黃珊珊委員發言賴會員委員請準備"},{"start":9998.376,"end":10023.618,"text":"主席各位同仁還有各位國人我想今天非常重要的一刻在2022年12月9號以前台灣人沒有人知道自己買的保險將來會被強制執行從那一天的民事大法庭做出這樣的解釋以後民事執行處行政執行處就開始了不斷有非常非常多的所謂的強制執行人壽保單"},{"start":10024.919,"end":10039.219,"text":"雖然相關的解釋並沒有那麼明確的說明說健康險、醫療險能不能執行但是我們的法院不斷地去撤銷所有解除它原來十幾年前、二十幾年前買的保險"},{"start":10040.02,"end":10067.386,"text":"造成了非常多的民眾他其實並不知道自己將來買的保險幫孩子買的保險是會被撤銷的所以這次修法是為了讓健康險傷害險等等相關攸關人民的醫療權益的這些嫌疼能夠被排除在強制執行之外另外還增加了所謂的保險介入權也就是受益人跟被保險人他應該有權利來保障他自己的權益而可以行使所謂的介入權"},{"start":10068.526,"end":10088.871,"text":"這次修法的過程裡面我們更意外的發現了所有的保單執行90%都是來自於銀行跟資產管理公司這些所謂他並不是弱勢的債權人他是非常強勢的債權人他竟然也是運用了保單強勢執行來執行銀行的欠款或者是資產管理公司的欠款"},{"start":10090.612,"end":10119.736,"text":"保單執行反而成為了這兩個強勢債權人他們強制執行的工具我們現在要做的是這個法通過之後除了保障人民的基本權益但是銀行跟資產管理公司當然可以依法追債但是保單必須要有一些保障的這個前提之下我們要保護人民基本的權益所以這一次在相關保險額度上面做出了一個非常重要的決定就是我們保障的是人民在最基本的"},{"start":10120.296,"end":10145.91,"text":"最低生活費裡面六個月之內的費用好 謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言報告委員 我們現在賴會員委員跟鍾嘉斌委員對調發言順序接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言王宏威委員請準備保險法修正條文三讀通過之後從108年"},{"start":10149.335,"end":10170.331,"text":"最高法院民事大法庭做出了裁定,說藥保人的保險契約視為他的財產,可以被金錢在位的債權人來強制執行。從那天開始,台灣社會醞釀了一個保險、一個保障,跟債權人保障債權的拉扯。"},{"start":10172.637,"end":10182.265,"text":"很欣慰的在經過去年本席在司法法制委員會提出司法院正式也緊急的發出了指引"},{"start":10183.407,"end":10211.566,"text":"除了一方面疏解自己法院民事執行處他在案件上的涌射之外也讓許多憂心如焚的債務人的藥保人能夠免於保險被解除生活醫療健康無保障的狀況然而這次的事件提醒我們後續有兩件事情要做第一在今天完成三途程序之前我們已經有"},{"start":10212.517,"end":10226.282,"text":"因為保險契約被解除的這些債務人他如何去回復他原來保險所應有的保障權益這不是往後延伸的問題而是往前如何去解決"},{"start":10227.318,"end":10250.789,"text":"第二我們也看到了大法庭原本是在108年憲法訴訟法通過之後他取代了大法官作為統一各法庭裁判的法令見解然而在統一法令見解的同時他所做的裁定對我們的生活實務上造成了衝擊甚至也造成了法院自己的衝擊我想接下來這個階段"},{"start":10252.17,"end":10267.519,"text":"民事大法庭或大法庭制度我想我們需要有更多立法跟司法相互之間的配合能夠讓司法的見解跟立法的實務同步來行進要做這事情要走的路還很遠我們繼續加油"},{"start":10283.274,"end":10299.747,"text":"主席各位委員這是一個遲來的修法大家都知道那麼事實上呢從111年開始那麼很多的銀行跟債權公司開始做保單的強制執行"},{"start":10300.647,"end":10314.017,"text":"事實上整個社會大亂包含在法院裡面大量的案件而我們所有的民意代表得到大量的投訴和陳情事實上行政院早就應該修法"},{"start":10315.518,"end":10341.453,"text":"但是一直延宕在去年本席在財政委員會數度的質詢要求行政院盡快修法來解決這個亂象而且也應該解決所有這些債權人債務人的困擾那在這次修法裡面我個人認為有兩大重點第一個就是對於免於強制執行"},{"start":10342.654,"end":10359.921,"text":"我們立法院把這個門檻從原來最低生活費1.2倍的3個月這是行政院版本立法院把它提高到6個月比較符合我們這些債權人債務人的一個需求"},{"start":10360.541,"end":10376.95,"text":"也就是應該要留下關財本給這些欠債的人不會因為這些保單被強制執行而讓他們生活陷於困頓第二點就是對於健康保險跟傷害險"},{"start":10379.611,"end":10408.166,"text":"也列入了不可扣押強制執行的範圍也讓我們一般的人民這些保單有一些基本的保障所以這樣的修法只是第一步我們未來還是要更加的關心所有的這些債務人他們到底經過修法之後能不能滿足他們的需要但是基本上至少這一步"},{"start":10415.276,"end":10421.727,"text":"谢谢王宏威委员发言接下来我们请赖会委员发言然后请罗廷伟委员请准备"},{"start":10427.372,"end":10450.393,"text":"主席各位同仁2025年6月3號立法院三讀通過保險法部分條文修正草案這一次的修法最令人興奮的亮點是大幅強化了保護在面對債務壓力的保障特別是針對保單遭強制執行的情況之下提供了更明確的一個華麗的保護"},{"start":10451.934,"end":10474.369,"text":"那當然我們要提到保險法金民事大法庭在108年的時候台抗制第897號的民事裁定說明裡頭講得非常清楚保單作為那個強制執行的標的物造成實務民事執行處在執行上有很多困難的情形相關的作業流程塞車甚至有"},{"start":10475.891,"end":10491.122,"text":"書記官出走的這些問題為了解決實務上的一個執行問題也為了平衡債權人跟債務人的權利那在這一次我要非常感謝就是賴思寶召委還有黃珊珊委員"},{"start":10491.823,"end":10512.51,"text":"那在所有財政委員會的所有的委員那大家同心協力那我們也盡力的召開公聽會要求金管會執行報告那也質詢了相關的一個議題並諮詢專家學者以後那我們去研擬符合債權人債務人並且符合"},{"start":10513.15,"end":10531.367,"text":"學理的條文增添條文規定將傷害保險健康保險還有企業排除於強制執行的標的物之外並且規定保險企業的保單價值準備金沒有達到一定的水準以上一定不得強制執行"},{"start":10532.068,"end":10559.642,"text":"原先儘管會凝聚的一個條文有造成不同地點不同水準差別待遇的一個問題也經由本席跟我們財政委員會的共同委員的共同努力那我們凝聚了修正條文在所有大家的一個努力之下我們去解決了相謝謝賴會員委員的發言接下來我們請羅定位委員發言李坤成委員請準備"},{"start":10569.554,"end":10583.913,"text":"保險法部分條文修正草案這是我們三讀通過的保險法看似只是幾條法律條文的一個調整但是對許多的家庭來說這是一個非常重大的一個變革跟改革"},{"start":10584.754,"end":10610.391,"text":"這不只是數字跟契約的改變保險往往是人生面對生死交關時唯一的退路也是在最脆弱無助的時候所能夠緊握的最後一絲希望我們更希望過去看到辛苦繳交十幾年的保費為家人留下了一點安全感沒想到面對債務的時候保單竟然可以被強制執行的財產結果是什麼"},{"start":10611.852,"end":10640.358,"text":"法院案件數量暴增保險公司應接不暇更重要的是有人為了家人留的最後一份保險金最後被沒收什麼都留不下我們更希望這一次透過我們的修法我們用全台各地最低生活費的1.2倍計算6個月總額納入撫養的狀況來納入只要你的保險金解約金在這範圍內就能夠受到所謂的法律保障"},{"start":10641.218,"end":10669.804,"text":"我們更希望保險事故尚未發生但藥保人已是債務人且保單的解約金已被扣押或是藥保人被宣告破產的時候進入清算或者是更生程序時只要符合三個要件就可辦理變更藥保人本次修法另有附帶決議明定修正案經三讀總統公告之後司法院應該八個院督導各級法院適用新法"},{"start":10670.844,"end":10699.423,"text":"針對已遭扣押或強制執行的保險契約完成撤銷程序確保新法精神能夠落實保障民眾的權益不會受到延誤我們看見制度的漏洞更會傾聽民眾的心聲來回應民眾的期待這個修法大家一起努力謝謝謝謝羅廷偉委員的發言接下來我們請李坤成委員發言賴世保委員請準備"},{"start":10711.732,"end":10737.346,"text":"謝謝主席那今天保險法關於保單強制執行的這個修法那最主要是來自於在民國111年的12月這個最高法院民事大法庭肯認執行法院在必要的時候呢得核發執行命令終止債務人為要保人的人壽保險契約但是在執行上面呢除了人壽保險契約之外呢低解約金或是沒有解約金的健康險或是傷害險呢也被擴及"},{"start":10738.306,"end":10763.665,"text":"那所以呢雖然解約可以有少量的填補債權但是對於大多數的債務人員來講呢確實的喪失了醫療保障那所以呢才會有這次的這個修法那這次的修法呢經過我們財委會邀請經管會來報告然後呢也召開了公聽會那大家做一個廣泛的討論呢然後終於順利呢二讀再三讀"},{"start":10764.366,"end":10793.323,"text":"那今天所刪除通過這個保險法的這一個重要的一個部分條文的修正草案主要有兩個重點第一個呢是確立未來債務人有效保單的解約金債權的金額統一那就是說呢保單的解約金呢在一定的金額之內呢不會被扣押或強制執行那本來呢是以這個最低生活費的1.2倍來計算三個月那後來金管會委從善如流所以所以呢現在是以1.2倍計算的六個月"},{"start":10794.524,"end":10812.8,"text":"總額採取最高標準那目前就是以台北市為標準台北市的標準大概是15萬左右那第二個呢針對部分保險契約如小額中老保險呢那是否排除呢則是由金管會以特定的險種排除方式來豁免那經過今天的修法之後呢"},{"start":10813.38,"end":10841.77,"text":"那大概按照金管會的這一個的說明呢這兩年被強制執行的123萬的保單當中呢大概可以排除九成近百萬的保單不僅呢減輕各法院執行案量最重要的也保障了這個債務人的健康險還有傷害險等等謝謝謝謝李坤城委員發言接下來請登記最後一位登記第七號賴世保委員請發言"},{"start":10854.9,"end":10879.122,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長以及各位先進那麼今天保險法修正案通過再次的說明一件事情朝野其實是可以合作的為了民生的公共議題為了民生的公共利益朝野可以坐下來好好的認真針對題目一步一腳印的往前推這個法案"},{"start":10880.463,"end":10904.941,"text":"這個排案的委員是賴慧雲 賴慧雲召委他很辛苦的排了公平會 排了幾次的審查會最後呢 我們也還有所有的裁會的委員三黨所有的委員 一致的說服了彭主委他原來定的就是三個月 把他提高到六個月而且原來是各縣市啊"},{"start":10905.521,"end":10922.174,"text":"是你的生活是多少那麼台北生活會比較高那是以台北市這個為主所以最後最後變成是六個月而且台北市的一個生活水準啊來定這個這個要保障的"},{"start":10922.814,"end":10951.355,"text":"一定的程度齁他那就是全國統一14.67萬將近15萬是多齁這個其實這個精神就是我們的勞保條例的精神一模一樣當勞工他有欠人家錢的時候你要扣他一般過去是銀行就會你有收入你有錢進到你的商戶裡面他就幫你扣扣三分之一扣多少那勞保條例就訂得很清楚"},{"start":10952.315,"end":10978.648,"text":"這是為了活口的錢生活的錢保命的錢不可以扣今天這個精神就是這樣子的精神今天整個這部保險法的修正就是你雖然這個保險是一個財產可是它要生命用的不可以給它扣這裡面還包括健康保險傷害險等等的"},{"start":10986.673,"end":10988.035,"text":"一二三四五"},{"start":10996.152,"end":11016.256,"text":"現在我們進行討論事項第二案本院羅廷偉委員等人提案建請院會決議台中發電廠應該逐年提出並落實減碳計畫並於二零二八年完成五枚中火之國家減碳目標一案"},{"start":11017.136,"end":11035.091,"text":"本案經第二會期第八次會議決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報院會本案因超過一個月沒有辦法達成共識依照立法院職權刑事法第七十一條之一規定由院會定期處理"},{"start":11035.931,"end":11060.189,"text":"因此我們於本次會議提出討論抱怨會依照黨團共識定於今天下午四點半進行本案之表決抱怨會現在在議場二樓旁聽來自台灣健康空氣聯盟葉光鵬理事長以及高雄健康行動黃奕英理事長等NGO團體我們掌聲歡迎各位立體法院"},{"start":11062.316,"end":11073.865,"text":"現在我們進行廣泛討論依照登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先請張祺凱委員發言何新淳委員請準備"},{"start":11087.472,"end":11095.936,"text":"今天我們一起來捍衛人民的健康我們拒絕火力全開用人民的肺發電"},{"start":11100.202,"end":11122.589,"text":"政府跟台電有責任讓我們的電力是穩定而且是充裕的可是呢現在因為我們的電力不夠而且不穩定最近出現了台電自打嘴巴全面啟動了緊急備用的機組這有多嚴重呢第一個"},{"start":11123.709,"end":11130.234,"text":"用的是燒煤影響到我們的健康特別是肺部第二個竟然都是用無照的"},{"start":11131.397,"end":11160.618,"text":"無照都不能開車了為什麼無照台電跟民進黨政府還讓他一直燒煤啊第三個也是很嚴重的用的都是非常老舊的這個基礎今天討論中火中火是全世界啞鈴界最大而且是最老舊的基礎也是污染最嚴重的結果民進黨政府跟台電拼命的用火力全開光是"},{"start":11162.062,"end":11172.836,"text":"五一七非核佳營的前一天跟後一天中火多燒了1.4萬噸的煤炭嚴重傷害了中部民眾的健康特別是肺部"},{"start":11173.973,"end":11194.062,"text":"另外我們上個禮拜台灣民眾黨特別到高雄跟台南臨界的地方興打的三號機跟四號機這個都是超過40年以上的老舊基礎污染非常嚴重也是商美的民進黨政府一樣火力全開"},{"start":11195.96,"end":11215.707,"text":"傷害我們台南跟高雄民眾的這個健康這是亂夭壽都沒有天良的事情為什麼你第一個沒辦法做到我們電力是穩定的結果你要補充你的電力竟然用的是無照的是老舊的而且都是煤炭啊今天我要給大家看一個數據"},{"start":11217.901,"end":11243.714,"text":"在WHO四位他要求PM2.5每一方公尺他的允許值是多少 5維克結果台灣在去年的時候竟然高達平均12.5比世界的標準 比四位多了兩倍其中最高的是哪裡台南是18.9維克"},{"start":11246.018,"end":11271.026,"text":"比世界標準多了將近四倍接下來是麥寮電廠的商美的17.6高雄市17.4嘉義縣市16.7台南市16.6都非常的高今天我們要睜大眼睛今天現場有各位在台中要選市長的何欣晨齊昌在彰化要選市長選縣長的秀芳"},{"start":11305.729,"end":11309.551,"text":"謝謝張祺凱委員發言接下來我們請何新淳委員發言王逸川委員請準備"},{"start":11317.735,"end":11339.882,"text":"謝謝院長大家好我想台中人最願意就事論事但是看到今天的提案我想美其名是說要在2028讓中火無煤發電但是沒有看到任何的評估配套沒有考量到國家的長遠發展我想這個不是理性的討論回想過去中火第一部機組開始發電是在1992年33年前"},{"start":11343.343,"end":11363.215,"text":"事出必有因 因必有果當時候無論在中央或者地方主政的都是國民黨那我們台中為了配合國家的政策也為了國家發展只能接受也做出了長年的犧牲我要告訴提案的藍白委員有資深的 有資淺的"},{"start":11364.356,"end":11388.186,"text":"為了台中為了台灣減煤減污一定要的我們全力支持要加快速度我們也支持但是不要釋放錯誤訊息比如說剛剛什麼無照發電請看清楚事實不要誤導民眾延遲了中火改善的腳步台中人最願意就事論事"},{"start":11390.854,"end":11418.736,"text":"我要提出幾個數字讓全國人民參考近十年來民進黨執政努力台中火力發電廠啟動了機組降載的機制空污的防治設備也增加了也改善了我們2024年較2014年已經減煤了600萬噸以上已經高達三成四還會再繼續空污也減排了七成七所以呢為了讓中火燃煤機組提早除役"},{"start":11419.136,"end":11430.289,"text":"也已經規劃了六部的燃氣機組要全力減煤更要穩定的供電這才是負責任的態度台中人願意就事論事理性討論解決問題但解決問題不能只靠空話那盧市長就任快七年了我們看到"},{"start":11439.94,"end":11459.995,"text":"因為媽媽對於用心用力想要改進向上的孩子理論上我們一定要肯定支持還要繼續鼓勵但是我們看不到盧媽媽的鼓勵三不五時再拖出來打一頓那我們也實際上看到台中火力發電廠想要以氣換煤他各項的努力"},{"start":11460.896,"end":11484.661,"text":"在台中市政府裡面也透過了都市審議的方式呢拖延了換氣的15個月拖延了15個月如果沒有這樣子拖延沒有這樣的卡關台中現在一座的燃氣機組早已上線退場兩座燃氣機組了我再說一次一個城市要有水有電是市長的責任要保護市民的健康也是市長的責任"},{"start":11485.721,"end":11502.109,"text":"但是要真正做到不能只靠空話而是真正的讓中國以氣換煤要負責任不能蒙眼不看事實我再次強調中國要繼續解煤解霧我全力支持但是他不會做"},{"start":11510.942,"end":11514.083,"text":"今天這個台中三傻的提案就可以看出盧秀燕陰險狡詐 心狠手辣"},{"start":11536.782,"end":11547.47,"text":"怎麼陰險狡詐呢台中火力化電廠在台電的員工努力之下減碳減煤啊 盧秀燕都動作沒看到盧秀燕這幾年是台中市政府可以做的減少空污的事情都沒辦法做"},{"start":11557.386,"end":11569.777,"text":"廖偉祥酸苦 文山文化爐 時間夠了 空汙繼續蓋起來盧秀燕連插都不要插下去 繼續汙染繼續汙染廖偉祥那個酸苦 廖偉祥三頭九尾 一句話都不說這台東市議會 不管議員怎麼樣嘛 盧秀燕就是怎麼樣我就是不要處理 什麼事情就說縱火縱火"},{"start":11584.807,"end":11596.603,"text":"第三 台中這幾年 包括工業區 包括科學園區 他們的電越來越多台中市他們的電 台中自己發電不夠 南部的電 上來電不夠"},{"start":11601.929,"end":11629.242,"text":"每天就在說什麼台中用廢發電台中人用廢發電給全台灣用 錯這就看到盧秀燕多麼陰險狡詐這是在改造的誤則 每天怪台中火力發電廠第一 有什麼說她心狠手辣盧秀燕酒精台電說要把燃煤基礎換成燃氣基礎 盧秀燕反對"},{"start":11631.482,"end":11657.089,"text":"更加不要讓他 都市上去審議不敢審就是不要讓台電把燃煤機組換成燃氣機組當時2018年盧秀恩主任 如果同意台電把燃煤機組換成燃電機組我告訴你 換成燃氣機組 現在台中的空污又更多了盧秀恩心狠手辣 不同意犯就是不同意犯 動輒我各位"},{"start":11660.177,"end":11673.565,"text":"現在台電燃煤機組行情斬言台中市政府不作為 不同意 不駁回 也不審議就把你放下 放下之後說你無照燃煤"},{"start":11675.171,"end":11695.082,"text":"這沒心狠手辣嗎台電的觀光努力的改善台電中火的空汙盧秀燕什麼都不做大甘美台電颱風來的時候拜託台電快把電修理好台電的觀光替台灣人用這麼多事情倒三天這麼多"},{"start":11696.904,"end":11704.735,"text":"現在都怪台中的中國良心何在盧秀燕陰險狡詐 心狠手辣好 謝謝王一川委員的發言接下來我們請蔡奇昌委員發言 麥玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":11732.473,"end":11744.204,"text":"謝謝主席 各位委員 同仁 大家好講到台中火力發電廠 講到台中的空汙這真的 說到會吐血"},{"start":11749.005,"end":11767.681,"text":"台中火力發電廠是怎麼來的?是國民黨執政時期,我們千拜託萬拜託,上街抗爭。國民黨堅持要在台中港蓋這個火力發電廠,而且還是亞洲最大的。好啦,說為了台灣的發展,他最後也蓋了。"},{"start":11768.855,"end":11789.153,"text":"蓋好之後台中人什麼時候用廢發電什麼時候火力全開就在馬總統執政的時候這個電廠啊火力全開那時候真的台中人用廢發電身為台中人的一份子我們需要電我們更需要健康"},{"start":11790.307,"end":11806.067,"text":"所以從那個時候開始作為立法委員的我開始在立法院我們要求台電要想辦法開始降載所以從蔡英文總統執政開始到今天台中火力發電廠"},{"start":11808,"end":11821.801,"text":"總共啊 煤減少了大概燃燒六百萬噸對一清馬英九時代一清八八三十九到現在一二零八差不多降六百萬噸碳排檢差不多七成七"},{"start":11823.325,"end":11839.038,"text":"有在做沒 真認真在拚這樣有夠沒 當然沒夠所以我在當副院長的時候我特別還做了一個案子我們叫台中要以氣換煤我們很理性務實的跟台電溝通什麼時間你要縮短讓台中不再燃燒煤氣"},{"start":11841.351,"end":11864.587,"text":"當時協商的結果2035年雖然我們不滿意啦但是這是科學 務實 理性讓台中不缺電又可以讓煤氣退場所以我們在立法院通過一個決議2035年台電認為不會造成台中沒有電但又可以顧住我們的健康這樣剛才過去減10年啦過去2040幾年才可以無所妥當現在改到2035年"},{"start":11871.492,"end":11878.82,"text":"2035年通過之後我們滿意嗎 當然不滿意吧所以我們會持續要求台電 現在台電講2034年在環評當中要蓋燃氣電廠的環評當中改成2034年可以不再燃煤了"},{"start":11887.369,"end":11915.283,"text":"但是這個燃氣機組要蓋的時候 我們的市長盧市長啊還用督審擋了這個燃氣機組 擋了15個月啊否則我們現在的燃氣機組已經上線 又可以讓燃煤下來嘛為什麼不做呢台中的空污只有火力發電嗎 火力發電佔2%剩下的移動污染源 台中的智慧城市你不知道要怎麼走去問王逸川啊"},{"start":11918.546,"end":11943.157,"text":"到今天為止你還用最好救的比市長幹那麼多年你最好救的獨山洛漢你趕快換技術還擺在那裡失去頭髮工 汙染還有人的胃你該買做家財你黨的男戲你自己該做的都不能來降低文山洛漢該降低什麼做"},{"start":11972.818,"end":11972.838,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":11978.923,"end":11990.934,"text":"實際要從台電 要忙快結束在美發電當然 只是給台電一個時間 它該從美發電停不下去 咱們要負責嗎?我們要繼續招商嗎?"},{"start":11990.934,"end":11998.462,"text":"你們的民生又可以出問題嗎?所以喔 共同電的部分 能源部分 台電是要發動健康的部分"},{"start":12010.973,"end":12011.554,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":12026.749,"end":12034.515,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝蔡其昌委員的發言接下來我們請麥玉珍委員發言吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":12050.865,"end":12076.242,"text":"主席各位親愛的家人大家早安台中人已經收夠了台中人不是二等公民不是國家的發電工具更不是要天天吸煤煙的健康實驗品我們要大聲的問中央政府你們的能源政策到底有沒有把人民放在眼裡"},{"start":12077.843,"end":12100.204,"text":"環境部在火速通過中火第二期六部燃氣機組的環評之後卻不如實拆除六部燃煤機組反而轉為緊急備用這是什麼意思這是給自己留下繼續燃煤的後門嗎"},{"start":12102.369,"end":12117.883,"text":"你們明明承諾增加一期減一枚結果卻變成六期六枚這根本是赤裸裸的騙局這不只是在傷害台中人"},{"start":12118.523,"end":12144.954,"text":"更是在拖垮台灣整體的能源轉型與供電的穩定我們明明知道中火疫期燃煤機組在2025至2026年就陸續完工總發電量足以汰除至少4到5座的燃煤機組為什麼還要讓這些污染機組"},{"start":12146.235,"end":12165.996,"text":"狗鹽產船的偷偷上線是誰在玩弄書記是誰在製造假減煤的騙局在到2031年台中火力發電廠仍然七成燃煤用量沒有太儲"},{"start":12168.852,"end":12183.156,"text":"這種態度怎麼對得起我們全國人民呢怎麼對得起淨零排碳的目標呢而是這樣的操作不但沒有提升力能的比例還讓台灣陷入電力結構的混亂的風險"},{"start":12185.637,"end":12204.884,"text":"錯誤的決策只會讓我們人民陷入更多污染與限電雙重危機台中人沒有簽台電什麼這幾十年我們卻替全國供電承擔最重要的代價現在還要我們忍受電信"},{"start":12206.184,"end":12234.214,"text":"7億的中央政策嗎我們要求2028無煤中火立即啟動實質減煤的行動而不是紙上談兵的口號之國我們要求環境部不再成為台電的護航單位而是真正站在人民這一邊守護我們呼吸權生存權還有健康權我們不接受被犧牲我們不"},{"start":12253.412,"end":12259.217,"text":"好 謝謝麥玉珍委員發言 謝謝接下來我們請吳思揚委員和鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":12264.249,"end":12286.065,"text":"主席 各位同仁 臺灣不只要乾淨的空氣 更要乾淨的政治剛剛麥玉珍委員說臺中人受夠了 我要說臺灣人受夠了毀憲亂政藍白河 造謠胡扯也藍白河2028中火 中美無火"},{"start":12287.106,"end":12304.541,"text":"對不起,2028中火無霉是三合一的提案第一,假民生真正真第二,只搞民粹不負責任更嚴重的是這是一個境遇其外敗絮其中的提案完全不堪檢驗"},{"start":12306.262,"end":12331.393,"text":"剛剛民進黨團前三位發言的立委都是服務台中最久最了解台中在地也是對於中火案關心最久付出最多的蔡其昌何新淳也包括了服務台中多年的王逸川他們都點出了中火的關鍵問題而這些都是國民黨不敢面對的真相"},{"start":12332.153,"end":12352.609,"text":"反观国民党提案的三位委员罗廷伟、廖伟祥、黄建豪担任立委的时间不长提出来的这个决议案显然功课做得不够新科立委不是问题但是对地方不用心还操弄民意制造对立这就是大问题"},{"start":12353.69,"end":12373.977,"text":"冤有頭債有主喔 中火誰蓋的 國民黨執政時期蓋的而中火發電用煤量最高 空污排放最高的全盛時期就是馬英九當總統 胡志強當市長 盧秀燕當立委三位一體國民黨執政的時期"},{"start":12376.678,"end":12397.094,"text":"但是民進黨執政之後 就如同我們秀出來的這個大字報中火減煤600萬噸 空污減排77%這是史上最好的成績 但我們不滿意 還要持續努力國民黨做不到的 民進黨做到了"},{"start":12397.794,"end":12424.68,"text":"反觀盧秀燕自己所轄管的焚化爐空污的排放量不減反增改善作業空轉六年毫無進展原地踏步盧秀燕有嘴公八郎沒嘴公大弟更重要的是如果蠻橫的要將燃煤的緊急備援的機組拆除就是不顧國安就是要癱瘓國家"},{"start":12427.16,"end":12448.595,"text":"還有台中不要中科了嗎不要台積電的拓廠了嗎台中不要顧產業了嗎現在盧媽就三寶三寶變三害罵中火就有票了嗎消費中火就可以救罷免了嗎請不要再政治操"},{"start":12452.332,"end":12457.723,"text":"好 謝謝吳思堯委員發言接下來鍾嘉斌委員發言賴瑞榮委員請準備"},{"start":12470.492,"end":12490.527,"text":"要空瓶不要空話 人民要的是空氣品質 不要政治人物講空話但是偶爾呢 盧秀燕市長也會講實話他說什麼 他說台中市的空氣品質不良的時間從一年60天降為20天說得真好 誰的努力"},{"start":12491.668,"end":12518.601,"text":"前面我們幾位包括市長委員都說了中火是在國民黨中央地方雙執政的時候興建的排放最嚴重的是在馬英九執政時期但是民進黨執政之後在中央地方旗下努力結果我們看看這幾年空氣品質變好啦我們從2016到2024台電的用煤量減了七成排放量也減了七成"},{"start":12519.301,"end":12547.352,"text":"但是反觀自己口口聲聲要創造良好空氣品質的盧市長他自己管的焚化爐從2016到2025年之間他的排放增加了快五成所以要說有嘴說別人嗎那我們來看一下增益器減差一枚這是台電的承諾在2024年10月的時候盧市長答應了喔為什麼因為他希望爭取台積電啊台積電要用量啊要用電啊"},{"start":12548.132,"end":12577.214,"text":"可是到了今年呢他又說2028要全拆光到時候會再增兩氣拆五枚好啦我們常常在說只見秋毫不見餘興啊盧市長只看到過去馬英九時候蓋的中火你沒看到對岸在做什麼事情今天台中在我們核一核二核三除疫之後全台灣除了核電廠內的用過燃料棒之外什麼地方的人民受到核輻射的危害啊告訴你就是台中為什麼"},{"start":12578.052,"end":12603.891,"text":"因為在中國福建距離台中不到200公里的福清核電廠它一年核廢水的排穿量是福島計畫的三倍再來離中部大概台灣230公里另外一座寧德核電廠的排穿量是福島的排放量五倍高達102兆貝克是台灣三座核電廠近十年來最高排穿量加總後的十倍"},{"start":12605.407,"end":12625.394,"text":"盧市長只見秋毫不見於心只看到山根大煙囪沒看到對岸給你排河沸水還不要說來自中國的塵蟎所以呢我們看到了今天我們要嚴格的來檢視減低不只台中市減低台灣中台灣減低台灣人民遭受的污染回愛不只空瓶"},{"start":12625.894,"end":12652.051,"text":"我們不只要讓降低火力發電的空瓶污染我們要減少對抗來自中國福建沿海這三座兩座核電廠嚴重的排放匯水量今天是89年六四天安門事件的前一天我在這裡呼籲所有在野黨藍白一起喊我們要紀念六四天安門譴責中共習近平"},{"start":12654.195,"end":12667.664,"text":"好 谢谢钟嘉斌委员的发言接下来我们赖瑞龙委员发言完毕之后跟院会报告我们就会进行午休那下午第一位第九号是邱毅英委员我们现在请赖瑞龙委员请发言"},{"start":12673.685,"end":12695.37,"text":"謝謝主席 各位委員我想改善空污經濟發展跟電力穩定都同樣的重要那也可以同步做到那高雄努力的方向我想值得台中來參考那熱絨來自工業城市高雄我們一直努力在降低空污的危害那持續要求中央地方合作來空污減量在立法院我們在經濟委員會來通過決議要求"},{"start":12697.59,"end":12724.929,"text":"經濟部所屬的國營事業跟公股事業都要全面來減少空污我們也成功地爭取了2017年到2026年國公營事業投入1400億來改善空污並按計來管考每半年召開檢討會議來落實改善空污此外我們要求高雄港交通部來推動高雄港的岸電系統包括全面使用低流油包括"},{"start":12725.889,"end":12744.736,"text":"港區的低速行駛來全面的降低港區的空汙港區的空汙改善市區的空汙也同樣改善也要求經濟部全面來輔導工業鍋爐來用低汙減碳除了這個之外我們也要求台電用一切的方法來改善空汙跟穩定供電"},{"start":12745.936,"end":12763.319,"text":"把老舊的燃煤機組改成燃氣機組加嚴NAS的排放同時推動燃煤混安的技術等等來減少整個空污的排放在中央跟地方共同努力之下九年來高雄市的整個空氣品質"},{"start":12764.54,"end":12775.143,"text":"空污的一個鴻駭的狀況我記得當時在九年前的時候每天出發高雄市鴻駭到台北綠的回到高雄是紅的從這樣的狀況我們從2017年的280戰日數的鴻駭的戰日數改善到了去年2024年的32戰日數減少了88.9%"},{"start":12786.107,"end":12802.7,"text":"包括高雄努力改善空污同時我們也撐住了產業的發展台積電等半導體包括輝達AMD等AI智慧產業也都紛紛投資高雄創造了城市的多營那我們回頭來看台中市的用電量持續上升"},{"start":12804.001,"end":12826.511,"text":"中火的發電已不足以來支應整個台中市的用電過去台中市政府堅持要求先拆燃煤再蓋燃氣以各種理由來卡台電的蒸汽減碳這個結果導致了中火的燃氣電廠比高雄要晚兩年才能夠完工來相轉如今才導致中火改成燃氣機組的延緩"},{"start":12828.312,"end":12855.173,"text":"這個責任就在台中市政府的錯誤決策所以我們還是要呼籲朝野應該共同來支持台電更換機組的設備投資同時支持政府來撥補台電預算讓台電不要有調升電價的壓力讓台灣的物價能夠穩定讓台電能夠穩定的發電我想這才是對台灣最有利的方向我們再次呼籲大家一起來支持台灣 一起支持台電謝謝"},{"start":12858.587,"end":12868.988,"text":"谢谢赖瑞龙委员发言抱怨会我们上午的会议进行到此为止下午2点30分继续开会进行后续广泛讨论之委员发言现在休息"},{"start":12903.208,"end":12903.932,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":13404.585,"end":13405.23,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":13815.026,"end":13815.452,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":14252.236,"end":14253.163,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":14598.089,"end":14598.633,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":15538.106,"end":15538.508,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":15768.93,"end":15769.052,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":16367.799,"end":16368.865,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":17254.304,"end":17256.971,"text":"MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":18187.78,"end":18188.49,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18522.305,"end":18523.08,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18596.561,"end":18597.005,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18635.903,"end":18636.49,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":18762.254,"end":18763.166,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19571.381,"end":19572.022,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19730.06,"end":19730.657,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19849.465,"end":19850.094,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":21581.575,"end":21590.345,"text":"我們現在繼續開會進行討論事項第二案後續廣泛討論之發言首先我們請邱毅英委員發言蔡議員請準備"},{"start":21612.827,"end":21639.356,"text":"主席 各位委員同仁 大家午安身為高雄市的立法委員本席今天要很坦白的告訴大家中火2028無煤的提案聽起來很漂亮但是如果是拿來作為政治操作無視電力調度的現實不僅供電會出事而且還對南部長年的電力貢獻極度不公平"},{"start":21640.336,"end":21664.216,"text":"第一高雄長年南電北送公平嗎以去年為例高雄發了480億度的電只用了320億度剩下的160億度到哪裡去了當然就是送到北部中部去支援整體的電力系統這就是南電北送"},{"start":21665.217,"end":21682.214,"text":"反觀台中去年自己用掉了350億度結果只發了295億連自己都不夠用竟然還有人可以喊出中電北送請問說這種話的人豈不一笑大方"},{"start":21683.035,"end":21703.506,"text":"第二要說中火製造空污請先看看中火是誰蓋的是誰讓它變成空污大戶我要再一次提醒社會大眾一個事實中火10部的燃煤機組都是在1997年國民黨政府核定的"},{"start":21704.788,"end":21732.256,"text":"當年國民黨政府不顧地方反對硬蓋狂燒才是空污噩夢的開端馬英九當總統胡志強當市長的時期用煤量跟排放量通通創下了歷史新高這是國民黨種下的噩音但是民進黨上任以來我們怎麼做呢從2016年開始我們啟動了以氣換煤強制空污管制減煤量至今已經超過600萬噸"},{"start":21734.176,"end":21757.274,"text":"空污排放減少超過七成台中電廠已經成為中部固定污染源中減排最多的一個這就是執政的態度這就是行動的差距但是反觀台中自己管理的焚化爐到現在不止沒有減排甚至連改善工程都延宕你的減排連一成都達不到所以請問台中"},{"start":21757.774,"end":21774.374,"text":"你是在甩锅吗所以我们要告诉大家我支持民进党团的提案推动2034年前台中电厂无煤化的目标如果可以更早达成我们就全力做但是绝不能弃守供电安全以电地调度的逻辑"},{"start":21774.974,"end":21789.678,"text":"也请各地方政府面对空污的整体结构问题不要再让基层的努力被抹黑更不要让高雄人必须长年不断地忍受南电北送以上 谢谢"},{"start":21799.172,"end":21805.828,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21810.865,"end":21829.851,"text":"主席 各位同仁那我們等一下要通過表決再處理中火的燃煤的問題台灣的燃煤在中火的部分事實上逐年的下降是從2016年的時候台灣燃煤中火的比例在2017年是32.2%在2024年已經到了31.1%2025年也就是今年已經下降到26.9%這個都是很客觀的數字"},{"start":21841.054,"end":21858.9,"text":"所以我們從科學數字來看台中的火力發電在這8年內實際上減煤超過了600萬噸以台中市自己的發電量台中市的用電是六都的第一名到351億度"},{"start":21861.221,"end":21886.014,"text":"但是台中卻它的發電有80億度的電力缺口是從其他的縣市調撥電力到台中所以我們不知道說今天這樣的一個提案由台中的三個國民黨的立委也就是盧秀燕她所支持的三個立委提出這樣的案那盧秀燕你的目的是什麼呢你的目的是真的為了台中的"},{"start":21886.794,"end":21911.762,"text":"發展為了台中的用電需求還是你的目的只是在做政治操作事實上這幾個月來從去年到現在藍白這兩個黨民眾黨國民黨都是用所謂的議題在做政治操作而已他們不是真的為了台灣的產業發展也不是為了台灣的能源轉型最明顯的例子咧如果像剛剛"},{"start":21913.182,"end":21923.969,"text":"張其凱委員去點名要競選台中的市長要競選彰化的縣長或者是在嘉義點名的我跟王美惠那我要問張其凱委員嘉義市的焚化爐從200每日燒200噸"},{"start":21931.494,"end":21954.289,"text":"增加到500噸 焚化爐200噸 增加到500噸這樣增加了多少空污為什麼這樣的一個焚化爐的一個增建案 這樣的一個改建案他沒有透過中央政府的環評直接由嘉義市政府求援兼裁判 自己決定自己要增建300噸"},{"start":21955.61,"end":21976.865,"text":"那300噸的一個日燒量你增加這樣的日燒量你增加的所謂的空污都影響到了水上鄉影響到了中埔鄉當我們嘉義縣跟你提出說你這樣對我們嘉義縣不公平的時候嘉義市黃敏輝市長沒得完成那你張祺凱你身為一個"},{"start":21979.467,"end":21993.791,"text":"你要選對 我不知道 不然你也是自己管民喔你身為一個嘉義縣民 你有去嘉義縣講過話嗎 沒有那我們知道 藍白你們只搞政治鬥爭你們知道 你們現在發動罷免人的領銜你們的媽媽 現在被你們拿去做死亡天主因為你們的領銜人都打不下去了你們住戶立法都一直出來道歉 你們還在立法院外跑"},{"start":22023.575,"end":22030.92,"text":"好 謝謝蔡議員的寬言接下來我們請邱志偉委員班林黛嬅委員請準備"},{"start":22044.656,"end":22061.861,"text":"好 謝謝我在經紀委會那麼久時間好像印象中沒有聽過羅廷偉 廖偉祥 黃建豪對台中電廠有發言過或者有諮詢過至少我印象中沒有可能問一下邱瑩有沒有好像都沒有印象"},{"start":22062.97,"end":22090.891,"text":"有人說 菩薩為因 眾生為果這個提案就是因這個因就是台中市政府治理空污毫無能力不思反省卻要嚴懲這個對空污重疾減排最努力的台中電廠這個就好像一個不認真的老師不思檢討反而來嚴懲怪罪"},{"start":22092.034,"end":22111.553,"text":"用功努力念書的好學生各位 能源政策是國家大政你要關係到全民的生活產業的穩定 國家的安定能源政策必須要穩健穩健的意思是什麼你要科學 你要務實 你要全面"},{"start":22112.918,"end":22130.491,"text":"所以你要必須要符合務實、科學、理性這些原則來規劃全盤的這個能源政策所以整個能源政策的穩定政府很理性、很科學、很務實的去做思考跟規劃各位啊"},{"start":22132.313,"end":22145.038,"text":"國會監督也是必須要秉除理性、科學跟務實而不是用奇跡性用偽科學、用務虛、造謠跟散播假訊息的方式來達成政治目的"},{"start":22146.411,"end":22175.871,"text":"台中電廠的議題也應該用回歸科學事實來做理性的討論台中電廠的 台中市用電的供需狀況自給率只有87%意思說有13%是從南電要中送未來如果這個提案通過缺口每年200億度還要從南部南電中送嗎把南部人當作邊緣人嗎把南部人當作低端嗎"},{"start":22176.911,"end":22197.719,"text":"各位 再想想看 護國深山不是在台中要設廠嗎有晶圓輸入廠 有風車湖廠欸 現在也在運轉了然後呢 晶圓要輸入廠 今年底要動工這些都需要用電你這個提案通過 你不是要把台積電趕走嗎台積電如果 面臨到這種人為性的缺電危機"},{"start":22204.95,"end":22228.246,"text":"歡迎來到高雄市白埔產業園區我們用穩健的態度來推動能源修正確保產業供應無虞用理性務實科學的方式讓用電讓產業能夠永續生存永續發展讓民生用電也能夠很穩定南白這種做法難怪會被掃進歷史熱搜堆"},{"start":22240.864,"end":22246.171,"text":"好 謝謝邱志偉委員的發言接下來我們請林黛嬅委員發言陳金飛委員請準備"},{"start":22251.75,"end":22270.442,"text":"我們台灣正處於台灣人員轉型的關鍵時刻5月17日隨著河山廠二號機的正式停機我們邁出實現非核家園的重要一步這不僅是我國人員政策的歷史里程碑更象徵著未來世代負責的承諾"},{"start":22271.423,"end":22289.979,"text":"然而核電逐步退場的同時穩定供電依然是我們當前最重要的任務不能有失好的懈怠近期台中火力發電廠部分的機組運轉較多主要是因為林口大潭等電廠進行必要的稅休"},{"start":22290.699,"end":22316.279,"text":"在這樣的特殊情況下台電必須依照系統狀況靈活調度確保民生跟產業用電的穩定這是階段性的應變措施並不代表中火要恢復過去高負載的常態運作民進黨始終堅持增氣減煤的人員政策全力推動中火興建高效率的燃氣機組"},{"start":22317.9,"end":22332.484,"text":"而這些新機組的排放遠低於傳統燃煤機組對於改善空氣品質是至關重要而具體的進度上第一步的燃氣機組預計在今年8月上線第二步的燃氣機組預計要2026年明年來投入運轉隨著燃氣機組陸續的完工上線我們也將同步啟動老舊燃煤機組的廚藝跟拆除"},{"start":22345.407,"end":22350.413,"text":"力求在2034年底前來實現無煤城市的願景"},{"start":22352.079,"end":22380.358,"text":"本席非常理解有委員提出2028中火無煤的期待這是一項非常充滿理想性的目標然而人員轉型是一項高度複雜且務實的工程如果在新機組尚未到位前就冒然全部的停煤可能會導致電力供應吃緊進而衝擊民生與產業的發展因此我們主張穩健推進"},{"start":22382.659,"end":22407.917,"text":"穩定 漸進為原則穩步完成人員轉型這才是對國家 對人民最負責任的態度戴華要在這邊強調中央與地方在空污治理上的目標是一致的民進黨也將持續與地方緊密合作共同推動人員結構優化打造一個乾淨 安全 永續的用電環境"},{"start":22409.298,"end":22428.211,"text":"人員政策需要理性的討論與跨黨派的支持任何取信息的言語與錯誤訊息的傳播都無助於問題的解決我們每一位肩負公職責任的人都應該展現高度格局跟誠信為台灣未來負責謝謝 以上謝謝林黛華委員接下來我們請陳廷飛委員發言郭鈺晴委員請準備"},{"start":22449.82,"end":22462.967,"text":"謝謝院長我想我們所有台灣人民都在關心用電但是身為台中市長的盧秀燕要給正確的資訊不是錯誤的訊息"},{"start":22467.17,"end":22492.251,"text":"其實我們知道台中電廠是中部地區必須用電需求而存在的依據而且台中市用電量從2019年開始就已經連年超過台中電廠的發電量它是需要靠外線式的資源所以這些數字"},{"start":22493.752,"end":22521.708,"text":"我們覺得盧秀燕是不知道還是故意用錯資訊給所有台灣人民甚至我們看到的我們台電一直努力在減煤減空污所有的數字所有的曲線圖或許用資料大家一時聽不清楚可是我讓大家看"},{"start":22523.808,"end":22548.968,"text":"這個就是我們一路來從空屋減少減煤減少這個曲線圖非常的清楚空屋減下來煤也減下來這樣的曲線難道盧秀燕市長你看不懂嗎還有我們看到"},{"start":22550.933,"end":22576.39,"text":"台中的用電量已經超過台中電廠的供應量這個圖也是非常清楚在2019年就已經交叉了這個難道盧秀燕你看不清楚嗎而我們所看到的這些數字這些曲線都是一樣"},{"start":22578.134,"end":22589.452,"text":"為什麼盧秀燕你一直要用錯誤的訊息說我們所有的人在河山場正式除役之後都是用肺在呼吸"},{"start":22590.706,"end":22615.464,"text":"這些數字從核一、核二甚至核三都沒有改變過因為這是我們的目標是我們給予所有台灣人民的承諾我們除了要用電穩定我們更要讓所有的空污減少我們更要朝著減煤量來方向處理"},{"start":22616.364,"end":22641.182,"text":"這些我們的目標請盧秀燕你不要混淆視聽所以在這個關鍵的時刻只有穩定的用點我們也拜託所有的台灣人民大家一起站出來大罷免大成功好 謝謝陳廷飛委員的發言接下來我們請郭玉琴委員發言林月琴委員請準備"},{"start":22651.752,"end":22666.717,"text":"主席各位同仁大家午安有沒有發現是最近藍白的議題都是用短打快速的短打看能打多少算多少能夠亂槍打鳥打到幾張反罷免的票他們也覺得好不錯"},{"start":22668.055,"end":22688.828,"text":"我們來看一下包含今天的中火2028年停煤這件事情其實也是5月17號大家都知道這個核三的二號機正式處理台灣邁向新能源的一個不同的階段台中市政府他們有三部喔盧媽媽市長你說的三部喔這三部是什麼他說中火不能燒"},{"start":22690.009,"end":22712.897,"text":"核電不能來 核廢不能放但是台中發電只有87%捏他還供不應求捏他還要從其他地方來電捏那怎麼辦呢其實這些都是假的最重要的就是這位盧媽媽她在保他們的台中新三寶她在保護他們免於被罷免這就是主軸啦"},{"start":22713.937,"end":22740.091,"text":"要怎麼做呢很簡單啊就跟那個白的一起嘛就跟民眾黨一起來甩鍋給中央一起來抹黑給台電這是最快的一個方式他們就說了這台中的電廠的機組呢無照運轉事實上是什麼台電早在去年的9月就已經合法合規遞出他們要展延的申請但是台中市政府把他壓著壓了一整年了"},{"start":22740.811,"end":22757.302,"text":"快要一年了齁他說壓著我不辦就是不辦他就是要讓台電沒有辦法能夠展延但是人家台電是合法原正在運轉喔我們來看一下空污最嚴重的時期是什麼時候啊就是前面這張海報啦"},{"start":22759.604,"end":22770.016,"text":"2008年到2016年是誰執政馬英九呢2008到2016是誰當台中市長是胡志強呢是你們的國民黨在執政那8年你們為什麼不喊空誤你們為什麼不敢說啊"},{"start":22775.842,"end":22793.613,"text":"再說啦台中跟三很有緣別忘了台中市政府還有三座的焚化爐這個三座的焚化爐不但是空污的罪魁禍首同時文山焚化爐說要改善計畫改到現在了進度在哪裡進度一樣"},{"start":22794.775,"end":22819.505,"text":"零啦 六年了 改善計畫仍然是零這跟他們在罷免我們民進黨區域立委也一樣啊這個進度趕快是零嘛所以現在零比31 你們還沒破蛋咧讓你們好好的寫 連署書不寫讓你們用抄的 也抄的這麼個掉漆我真的要說啦 拜託藍白啊 你們真的要站"},{"start":22820.985,"end":22848.394,"text":"這裡有績效有數據台電講求的就是證據我們不怕戰雖然我們在這個地方表決會輸但是也麻煩你們贏的不要那麼骯髒可以嗎最後送你們一句大報名大成功好謝謝各位議員的發言報言會現在一場二樓來自美國的台灣人公共事務研究會所有的好朋友Welcome我們掌聲歡迎"},{"start":22849.912,"end":22854.894,"text":"主席各位同僚今天要討論我們2028年要完成梅中火的提案那我就想問台中市的如媽媽市長台中市空屋的元兇是誰啊"},{"start":22879.245,"end":22896.215,"text":"那讓台中市的國小的師生來告訴你吧110年數億國小的師生們在數位讀寫網中發表了探討台中市空氣污染的文章指出呢政府增加經費改善空污AQI"},{"start":22897.216,"end":22921.735,"text":"指數逐年下降而中火排放量也減少可是台中市市民的健康卻沒有改善因為危害健康的PM2.550%來自工廠 20%來自交通廢棄所以台中市除了要降低台中中火發電廠的排放外也需減少來自工業跟交通廢棄的排放"},{"start":22922.967,"end":22928.892,"text":"國民黨無煤中火提案看似迫不及待的要改善空氣品質"},{"start":22930.334,"end":22953.219,"text":"實際上目的是在掩蓋民眾反對重啟核電的壓力並且無所不用其其地破壞政府穩定供電的承諾製造民眾對缺電的危機感尤其這個提案來自罷免二階連署案連署率全台第一的羅廷偉委員之手"},{"start":22954.139,"end":22971.208,"text":"提出一個這麼不專業的案子無非就是為了他個人的失利傷害整個國家的能源政策為什麼我這樣說因為第一現行能源轉型政策以明確規劃我們的減煤的進程當下政府正依據"},{"start":22973.349,"end":22974.03,"text":"臺中用電成長全國第一"},{"start":22991.365,"end":23012.731,"text":"用電長期大於供給台中電力自給率87%用電量大於發電量不夠的部分還要靠其他縣市的發電廠來支援並且需求越來越大在新的機組還沒有設立完成之前馬上要切斷藍莓機組根本就是在胡鬧三"},{"start":23013.411,"end":23034.16,"text":"空的改善应从整体的空污的源头来着手不能够仅以中火用煤为焦点台中市的空气污染最大的来源是工业区跟交通那中火在过去五年间空污的降低到60%现今也只占我们台中空气污染源的"},{"start":23035.661,"end":23059.634,"text":"2.3%而已反倒是台中市魂化爐上升48%造成整體的空屋上升3%所以你今天不去怪盧媽媽做不好反而是來打陳吉安最好的小朋友好 謝謝林玥晴委員發言接下來我們請陳秀寶委員發言林楚英委員請準備"},{"start":23071.854,"end":23097.484,"text":"主席各位同仁減煤減碳是共識也是一直以來民進黨政府的目標跟努力的方向台中火力發電廠在國民黨政府時代規劃但是有效的減煤減污是民進黨政府做到的我們要再強調一次台中火力發電廠10組的燃煤機組是國民黨執政的時候規劃台中電廠用煤最高峰以及"},{"start":23098.004,"end":23123.406,"text":"空污排放最高點時期是國民黨執政當時總統是馬英九市長是胡志強立委是盧秀燕但是有效的減煤降低空污排放是民進黨執政才做到的國民黨提案要求在2028年完成無煤中火我們不禁想要問國民黨提案的評估在哪裡國民黨在提案之前有沒有先要求台電等相關單位進行專業的評估"},{"start":23125.988,"end":23140.602,"text":"當中部地區發展迅速台中市用電量節節攀升2028無煤中火最先衝擊到的將會是提案的各國民黨籍的台中立委如何面對大台中地區的民眾無電可用"},{"start":23141.563,"end":23145.848,"text":"難道國民黨這次的提案也是在毫無依據以及研究的情況下提出的不負責任的提案嗎陳璐一開始所說減煤減碳減污是共識台電也積極地進行以氣換煤的相關工作"},{"start":23156.4,"end":23184.526,"text":"但是新的燃氣機組計畫卻被台中市的盧秀燕市長卡關一黨再黨嚴當以氣換煤的騎乘這種兩面的手法就是國民黨慣用的政治操作的伎倆我所居住的地區是中火影響最大的地方我比任何選區的立委都更希望也更嚴格地要求台電中火要盡快完成以氣換煤降低空污的排放改善空氣的品質"},{"start":23185.586,"end":23187.747,"text":"民進黨讓中火有效減煤從2016至今減煤約600萬噸空污的減排超過七成我們同時也提案要求經濟部及台電應該做好專業的評估以及研究在2032年新增四部燃氣機組"},{"start":23204.273,"end":23219.469,"text":"在於2034年完成以氣化煤的計畫同時民進黨也要求經濟部以及台電應該加強跟在地民眾的說明及溝通循序漸進才是負責任以及全面考量後的提案"},{"start":23220.369,"end":23244.802,"text":"盧秀燕市長任內對台中市焚化爐的空污排放節節攀高束手無策卻一再地對努力減煤減污的中火開刀請國民黨不要再為了收割政治利益 罔顧台灣人民的權益不要再為了怕罷免操弄台灣人民的善良與真心請罷免不釋任立委 大罷免大成功"},{"start":23246.377,"end":23255.916,"text":"好 謝謝林秀寶委的諮詢接下來請林楚英委員發言然後羅黃秀芳委請準備"},{"start":23270.461,"end":23277.039,"text":"主席各位立法院的同仁還有線上直播的朋友以及來參觀立法院的海外朋友你們好"},{"start":23278.581,"end":23304.72,"text":"有句話說大罷免治百病但我要說大罷免更是照妖鏡照出國民黨這一群現在怕罷免的人只好胸抗胸抗來救自己但是我要告訴大家種豆得豆種瓜得瓜你們所造的孽現在就是因果循環回到自己身上我為什麼這樣講"},{"start":23306.341,"end":23330.514,"text":"從今天早上我們非常多民進黨的立委已經根據數字根據現在現有的狀況整理出三點第一點就是在國民黨時代所規劃興建的十組燃煤機組是從民進黨執政之後才開始逐步減煤減碳來避免空污對於台灣人民造成的傷害"},{"start":23331.374,"end":23360.137,"text":"但是國民黨現在怕罷免把責任往中央推我就問馬英九時代的時候你們這些國民黨立委有說什麼嗎不好意思大家可能忘了當時那個國民黨的立委叫盧秀燕現在叫做台中市長盧媽媽盧媽媽要救三寶想出來的是什麼是把所有的責任往民進黨身上推但是我要告訴大家事實第二點是台中市政府你自己空污處理不好"},{"start":23361.097,"end":23387.597,"text":"現在你就隨便一樣化無路的找一個所謂稻草人來當箭靶我要告訴你當你自己空屋都做不好的時候我們看到的是你居然拿空屋減量第一名的好學生來懲罰這就像國民黨大罷免做不到找一堆死人連署來連署結果作弊被抓到竟然還說老師你怎麼可以抓作弊這就是國民黨"},{"start":23390.88,"end":23408.685,"text":"盧秀燕為了救自己的三保立委擔心被罷免擔心自己未來仰望國民黨主席擔心要選2028整個被斷手腳所以現在竟然好意思來提案這一個自己都做不好空污然後把空污的怪罪到中火"},{"start":23409.705,"end":23420.355,"text":"第三點我要強調的也是大家都講的台中在成長所以台中的用電量自舉率都不足的時候你現在又要關掉燃煤電廠那麼請問電哪裡來對國民黨來講你永遠就是這樣"},{"start":23425.182,"end":23452.748,"text":"五月的時候我們討論到核三的部分沒有好好的去討論核廢料處理的問題國民黨舉手表決空過了要再重啟核能那麼請問核廢料放哪裡呢我要必須說大罷免照妖鏡照的全部國民黨立委無所遁形要截住這個政治鬧劇也許等一下我們表決不會贏但是全民一起大罷免大成功我們會贏"},{"start":23457.605,"end":23462.97,"text":"謝謝林楚英委員的發言接下來我們請黃秀芳委員發言羅廷瑋委員請準備"},{"start":23469.673,"end":23496.847,"text":"主席各位同仁大家午安從早上到現在我們很多同仁針對中火的這個議題提出了一些數據上在這幾年當中中火確實在減煤在減碳減排那我在這邊也特別提出來中火在馬英九政府時代他的這個燃煤"},{"start":23498.708,"end":23508.515,"text":"總共有1839萬噸一直到2024年已經減到1208萬噸減排的部分也將近從2012年一直到2024年減排也將近減了八成所以我們看到台中火力發電廠"},{"start":23523.304,"end":23551.894,"text":"在小英政府的這幾年當中確實減煤減排我們看到台中火力發電廠台電他們也確實在電廠機組的部分他們也提出申請五部機組已經向台中市府申請展延其中兩部機組審查都已經超過五年了台中市政府就是不審查"},{"start":23552.794,"end":23579.533,"text":"那其中三部的這個審查有將近九個月我們看到中火的這個燃氣機組也遭到這個台中市政府的卡關所以如果台中市政府真的認真的來審查的話我們看到這個台中火力發電廠的這個部分應該早已經是用新式的機組搭配我們這個新的污染防治設備來運轉"},{"start":23581.474,"end":23603.428,"text":"那對於空污排放進一步減量政府持續在努力持續在做那更換新式的機組就是以氣換煤的這樣的一個目標都已經陸續努力在做我們實在不應該把這個議題當成政治操作那我們看到"},{"start":23604.068,"end":23626.629,"text":"台電台中火力發電廠他們希望以燃氣等待燃氣逐步商轉之後那燃煤機組也可以逐步除役轉為緊急備用那達到2035年以氣換煤的目標我們看到台中市政府每一次選舉甚至這一次的大罷免"},{"start":23627.109,"end":23654.353,"text":"又拿台中火力發電廠來當提款機我們希望以理性務實來討論台中火力發電廠我們也希望這個台中火力發電廠能夠盡速以氣換煤讓所有中部地區的民眾能夠呼吸到更乾淨的空氣那我們也確實看到台電的努力不要再把中火"},{"start":23657.639,"end":23665.322,"text":"好 谢谢黄秀芳委员的发言接下来我们请罗廷伟委员发言范云委员请准备"},{"start":23694.986,"end":23710.214,"text":"我曾在中國絕食抗議因為我看太多肺腺癌的案例上圖所圈的就是癌細胞因為我看太多台中大人小孩支氣管的問題過敏的問題這都是台中人的痛"},{"start":23712.4,"end":23739.358,"text":"2025年蔡英文曾說綠電要達到20%成功了嗎請問蔡其昌和新淳所提的2035年燃氣機組備而不用你相信嗎高雄興達電廠偷偷運轉空污修餓讓地方減少了減煤權被剝奪讓台中五部機組偷偷運轉這樣子的中我欣然變成了全球最老"},{"start":23739.898,"end":23766.73,"text":"最舊最大的啞鈴界藍莓機組我們看到中南部的影響健康最為劇烈讓中部這樣子的台中火力發電廠變得如此之大民進黨不會告訴你只告訴你說這是中國國民黨所興建卻沒有告訴你在陳水扁執政的時候九號機組十號機組是他所興建"},{"start":23767.23,"end":23783.818,"text":"也絕口不提盧秀燕上任之後大量的減少藍莓數百萬公噸甚至告訴你盧秀燕市長在不斷的努力交涉就是希望王美花能夠同意藍棄機組變藍莓機組而現在郭志輝全部跳票"},{"start":23789.48,"end":23805.313,"text":"民進黨告訴你現在台中所謂的焚化爐有空污但是沒有告訴你中火是焚化爐的16.4倍他只告訴你有移動污染源卻沒告訴你一部燃煤機組等於1400萬噸"},{"start":23809.016,"end":23831.057,"text":"摩托車的排氣空污量我們要告訴大家這不只是我個人的提案這更是集台空盟環保團體甚至是在座葉光鵬醫師還有趙研究員以及高雄行動聯盟理事長黃理事長專業人士以及經濟部的數據來告訴我們這是可行的"},{"start":23832.138,"end":23855.12,"text":"經濟部的數據告訴我們2028年我們的燃氣電力達到了8990mW遠遠大於的中火燃煤機組5500mW我們所以考慮到新建的電力設備還有所謂的燃氣設備都能夠去將所謂的台中中火來做置換我們要告訴大家"},{"start":23856.461,"end":23879.428,"text":"韓國的啞鈴街機組30年除以為什麼台灣不行難道民進黨現階段所有的立法委員還有你們的行政院院長請問賴清德還有卓榮泰為什麼劉建國可以提2028無煤中火為什麼藍白不行我們一起為了下一代努力我們一起為了下一代健康努力"},{"start":23896.321,"end":23902.887,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷維委員的發言接下來我們請范雲委員發言李坤城委員請準備"},{"start":23912.728,"end":23932.565,"text":"好 院長跟大家我們羅廷文委員應該之前比較沒有關注這個議題不是MW是Megawatt好 謝謝現在關心沒關係但是請記得你們的合夥的民眾黨最常講的科學跟務實"},{"start":23934.006,"end":23957.888,"text":"我想我們在座所有的人包含所有關心的環保團體都知道空污當然需要防治它非常需要中央跟地方政府一起努力那釐清責任比喊口號重要釐清責任是我們面對問題的第一步先講空污根據環保署的資料來源"},{"start":23958.829,"end":23981.922,"text":"空屋不只是台中還有包含其他縣市境外的污染源佔這個污染源的三到四成境內佔六到七成境外的部分希望傅坤祺下次率隊去見誰的時候也關心一下那我們先講境內境內的空屋的污染源到底中央的責任佔多少"},{"start":23982.702,"end":23999.255,"text":"根据台中市政府自己的环保局在2018年对自己的台中市议会的报告不知道当时罗廷伟还是议员了没有他们的报告里面讲如果只以PM2.5大家最关心的来源结构分析"},{"start":24000.476,"end":24015.427,"text":"固定元占32%移動元你剛剛講到的移動元占29.6%易散元就是空中易散的占39%所以固定元占裡面的三分之一不到固定元包含什麼"},{"start":24016.127,"end":24022.111,"text":"包含电力业台中这个电厂当然是也包含像钢铁业等"},{"start":24046.487,"end":24065.876,"text":"不只是污染排放減少那事實上整體的都減少所以我們剛講的是2018年的資料所以從中央執政的台電最努力佔所有境內的台中市的空污汙染源中努力最多的"},{"start":24066.836,"end":24091.082,"text":"卻被罵得最多我懷疑盧市長是以罵中央政府來減掉轉移地方政府努力不夠的地方以努力來講我們看到的資料2016年到2021年台中電廠的空污排放量減了60%台中扣除台中電廠的不減反增卻增加了3%"},{"start":24092.802,"end":24109.09,"text":"那增加的部分盧市長不用負責嗎大罷免大成功大罷免日本好 謝謝走路小心謝謝范雲委員的發言接下來我們請李昆城委員發言張雅玲委員請準備"},{"start":24130.579,"end":24147.464,"text":"台中電廠的10部的藍莓機組都是在1997年國民黨執政的時候制定的當時候的總統是馬英九 市長是胡志強 立委是盧秀燕請問一下這三個人有做了什麼嗎 有說了什麼嗎"},{"start":24148.973,"end":24167.532,"text":"直到2016年民進黨執政之後呢大幅減少用煤量降低空污的排放量到現在為止呢減煤約600萬噸空污排檢呢超過七成這就是民進黨政府呢積極改善空污重視國人健康的證明然後呢"},{"start":24169.134,"end":24183.381,"text":"這個如果按照目前國民黨在野黨的這個提案要求在2028年完成無煤中火然後你又沒有提出任何的替代方案我跟各位報告"},{"start":24184.588,"end":24198.634,"text":"目前台中電廠的裝置容量是550萬千瓦在目前整個供電系統呢超過15%那如果按照在野黨目前的這個提案也沒有任何的替代方案"},{"start":24199.639,"end":24219.595,"text":"接下來呢一定會讓台灣的電力系統在2028年面臨癱瘓的一個狀況請問一下盧秀燕電要從哪裡來請問一下盧秀燕電要從哪裡來我們來看一下台中現在的這個發電量跟他的用電量就在這邊"},{"start":24221.749,"end":24241.635,"text":"到2024年為止台中的用電量已經大於台中電廠的發電量預估未來供電的需求會持續擴大如果按照這一檔的提案到了2028年缺口會超過200億度那請問一下盧秀燕電要怎麼來"},{"start":24247.591,"end":24264.404,"text":"如果說要用核能演繹來解決的話那不是只有核三演繹而已要核一、核二、核三全部都要演繹那請問一下盧秀燁你是不是打算讓核一、核二、核三全部都要來演繹呢"},{"start":24266.465,"end":24288.401,"text":"目前行政院民進黨政府的做法就是在2034年要以氣換煤達成無煤供電未來台中的火力發電廠會有十部燃煤機組其中有四部會除液六部轉為緊急備用的機組其中有四部是屬於燃氣的機組"},{"start":24289.682,"end":24317.439,"text":"那所以呢 早一天蒸氣 早一天減煤請盧秀燕不要再不蒸氣阻止台電換燃氣的機組把中貨當成你的政治的提款機呼籲一下盧秀燕 你要三思啊不要一直把你的中貨當成你的政治的提款機好 謝謝李坤城委員發言接下來我們請張雅玲委員發言 郭國文委員請準備"},{"start":24325.969,"end":24350.844,"text":"我們線上關心這個議題的公民朋友其實真的很想長長的嘆一口氣大家還記得嗎 之前國民黨說要研會的時候是希望說他們要來通過一些扶國立民的法案但是今天是研會後的第一個院會他們做的是什麼他們就是來潑髒水 造謠要來救自己免於罷免"},{"start":24351.744,"end":24377.694,"text":"我覺得這個真的是令人非常的遺憾我們來到立法院每一天都在闢國民黨的謠像首先我們來講這中火的10部燃料機組是誰規劃的是國民黨台中電廠用電最用煤最多空污排放最嚴重的時候總統是馬英九市長是胡志強立委是盧秀燕"},{"start":24378.434,"end":24405.046,"text":"冤有頭債有主是國民黨拿台中人的肺來發電這一點要非常的清楚第二個呢反而是我們民進黨執政之後呢2016年至今中火減煤已經有600萬噸空排放量也減了超過七成不只減煤還進一步的去轉氣從這個環境部的資料上都可以看到"},{"start":24405.846,"end":24418.518,"text":"這個民眾黨一直在講務實科學理性但是我想大家可以從今天的發言看到完全都不符合這一個點那中火的空污減排效果是全市第一真正有在做事的其實是民進黨"},{"start":24420.236,"end":24446.831,"text":"那我們再來看一下市府的管的這個三座焚化爐排放量不減反增暴增48%文山焚化爐的工程延宕六年一事無成盧秀燕怎麼絕口不提呢空氣變好不是靠你出一張嘴是中火的基層人員在努力是我們民進黨政府非常認真的在負責如果沒有中火近年來持續的減排"},{"start":24448.792,"end":24466.867,"text":"靠盧媽媽置空屋台中可能早就爆表了盧市長卻整天只會抹黑中火說無照藍媒可是呢這個最大的問題是證照自己審查了五年都審查不出來還好意思潑髒水這不是謝則這是造謠"},{"start":24470.572,"end":24499.044,"text":"這不僅是卸責也還是造謠那我想大家非常的清楚可以看到為什麼要一直不停的盧秀燕他們要不停的市長要不停的做這件事情最主要就是要救那三寶把這個空污嚴肅的議題變成保護三寶的一個逃避罷免的政治工具我想台中的空氣不會因為國民黨你們說謊就會變好但是台中的未來可以因為罷免你們而變得乾淨所以呼籲我們台中的鄉親"},{"start":24500.044,"end":24529.171,"text":"是时候站出来了持续的来去进行我们要罢免这些谢责不作为只顾政治算计的国民党立委大罢免大成功好谢谢张亚林委员的发言抱怨会登记第23号郭国文委员与登记第26号陈俊宇委员对换发言次序接下来我们请陈俊宇委员发言林一锦委员请准备"},{"start":24540.796,"end":24553.839,"text":"主席 各位委員今天我們所要討論的議案 同樣是有關到民生國家安全以及三亞發展的一個聯盟議題我想為了國家安全的運作不需要單獨來討論到國安的發展項目是要對於整體聯盟發展做同盟的一個考量進行專業的評估及規劃所以日空日白"},{"start":24569.946,"end":24580.616,"text":"沒有恢復的政策這個國旗應該要恢復全時心中來討論它堅固到電力、穩定的發電、民眾、健康的福祉和國家方位、人性為目標不惜來提出就副績人的國旗請求我們透清經濟委員所講的二十幾年來"},{"start":24594.738,"end":24614.693,"text":"在之前國民黨執政的時候 總會所歸位 選擇的10台基礎不管是用飛船的量 還是空汙白鳳的量都在二空一宿年內 執政的時候 大家各奉旗事實上一直到九年前 民進黨執政之後"},{"start":24617.916,"end":24638.052,"text":"積極推動減少用煤炭的量降低空污的排放和這次所減下來的煤炭每年台額有六百萬噸減排更加超過七成我們應該讓政府和台電對於穩定供電以及積極改善空氣"},{"start":24641.564,"end":24663.258,"text":"經濟所做出的努力,社會大眾應該要給予他們一個公平的看待。中匯對於台灣經濟發展有很大的貢獻,尤其台中電廠這幾年來,提起了我們大台中地區民生和工業的用電,但是大台中也存在著用電的缺口。"},{"start":24664.943,"end":24681.972,"text":"可是在配套要不完善前程我們就強行給他這個中匯提早來提供不然有可能提升到企業來用電的風險連台也有可能影響到產業的發展而且消費團的技術有關於國家方位的一個輪廠必須要有完善的安排才可以維護到我們國家的安全讓我們在面對國內外各種變革的時針"},{"start":24695.058,"end":24709.088,"text":"有更加充分的營運的策略我們也絕對支持兼職會同會來發展更加希望有更好的空氣但是應該要不施來面對一步一步"},{"start":24711.601,"end":24719.825,"text":"在合理的整個政策之下來落實透過目前政府所設定的台中電廠不回軚供電的目標燈觸到我們相關單位加速來推動整體檢討的這個進度"},{"start":24735.196,"end":24747.668,"text":"好謝謝陳靜穎委員的發言接下來我們請林怡靜委員發言陳培餘委員請準備林怡靜委員請發言"},{"start":24757.216,"end":24779.369,"text":"主席 各位同仁 低污染 低碳排的永續環境是全世界共同追求的目標 台灣當然也不例外可惜我們的在野黨 國民黨和民眾黨 只剩下口號作秀跟詐欺為了擁護核電 藍白不惜造謠 核電廠除以後就是火力全開"},{"start":24780.71,"end":24807.558,"text":"對於再生能源毫無願景為了掩飾自己的無能藍白兩黨把矛盾指向認真解決問題的執政黨彷彿減碳的工作台中市政府可以雙手一攤置身事外台中空氣汙染的高峰期就是馬英九當總統胡志強當台中市長盧修彥當立委的時候"},{"start":24808.698,"end":24826.733,"text":"民進黨執政小英總統才開始大幅度的減煤減空污2024年台中電廠用煤量創立歷史新低相較於2014年國民黨執政的歷史高點減少超過600萬噸空污排放量近80%"},{"start":24829.775,"end":24845.603,"text":"推動能源轉型是民進黨長年的目標而且我們也有逐步實現的方法論述跟策略所以改變是現在的進行式需要時間以及不分中央地方的協力合作"},{"start":24846.363,"end":24875.963,"text":"可是今天藍白兩黨硬要把專業的空污防治搞成政治鬥爭那麼我們就要很不客氣的問為什麼低碳低空污的燃氣新機組遲遲沒辦法及早運轉原因之一難道不就是盧秀燕一直在卡關嗎是誰在卡燃氣機組的新建是誰在卡以氣換煤就是盧秀燕一直都是盧秀燕"},{"start":24876.983,"end":24902.031,"text":"如果不是行政院直接發給特種建築執照那中火的燃氣機組可能還被盧學瑞一直卡住持續被當成政治提款機盧學瑞上任之後台中電廠從2019年開始發電量就已經不夠台中用電去年台中市用電量更是六都之一有近80億的電力"},{"start":24904.412,"end":24926.269,"text":"缺口需要其他縣市來支援 面對這樣的狀況盧修煥還是要卡燃氣機組的興建為了自己的利益 國民黨總是昧著良心攻擊民進黨另一個被盧修煥卡關的也是剛剛很多委員在提的就是台中文山焚化廠的改建工程我想"},{"start":24927.492,"end":24950.17,"text":"燃氣機組我不給蓋焚化廠改建又不積極改建那看誰最無能打假球姿勢最漂亮當然就是盧秀燕所以只能解決用大罷免大成功好 謝謝林一金委員的發言抱怨會登記第26號郭國文委員"},{"start":24952.622,"end":24964.148,"text":"跟28號徐富奎委員再次對換發言次序我們接下來請陳培宇委員發言徐富奎委員請準備"},{"start":24973.622,"end":25001.583,"text":"謝謝主席我想這張圖卡非常的清楚顯示在民進黨執政之後碳排還有空污都大量的降低但是盧秀燕不看這個數字盧秀燕不聽這些數字盧秀燕不想解讀這些資訊為什麼我想了很久就是為了保護台中三寶剛剛有非常多的立法委員都一直說台中三寶可是我好怕大家忘記我真的好怕大家忘記"},{"start":25002.264,"end":25022.064,"text":"台中三保是哪三保羅廷偉 廖偉祥 黃建豪這是盧媽媽市長想要保護的台中三保立法委員但是大家不要以為只有他們三個喔這個荒謬的提案書上面有非常多在這一次被罷免名單當中的委員"},{"start":25022.645,"end":25041.176,"text":"就讓我一一唸出來提醒大家他們不僅跟著盧媽媽市長坐上這台私塾列車他們也跟三保立委一樣不看道理不講道理不聽道理提出這個荒謬提案讓我一一點名楊瓊英委員徐巧欣委員張祺凱委員"},{"start":25043.377,"end":25059.788,"text":"連署人 葛如君 蘇清泉 傅寬祺 羅志強 鄭振乾 謝龍介黃仁 呂玉玲 張家俊 牛許庭鄭天才 萬美玲 王紅薇 圖全集 張志倫 許宇珍"},{"start":25060.148,"end":25061.55,"text":"這果然又是藍白合作的再一個荒謬提案國人從來不會對藍白失望"},{"start":25078.77,"end":25105.342,"text":"國人從來不會對藍白失望藍白就是這麼荒謬剛剛有非常多的國民黨委員說民進黨委員今天所有的發言都是為了攻擊盧媽媽市長但我要說如果沒有人提出這麼荒謬的提案我們今天為什麼要坐在這裡要站在這裡浪費原本本來可以討論寶貴法案的時間來駁斥你們的謠言你們的謠言非常非常多我想要請盧市長記得"},{"start":25106.963,"end":25114.965,"text":"你之前說在5月17合三廠除疫前後中火5月16的發電3GW到了5月18發電4.5GW你認為增加了50%這完全是牛頭不對馬嘴因為你拿5月16號白天跟5月18號晚上不同的時段"},{"start":25128.328,"end":25154.586,"text":"不同的用電量做比較你就是刻意造謠刻意帶風向有非常多委員提醒你難道台中產業不要發展了嗎台中的用電量遠遠超過台中的發電量難道你最近標榜你要蓋的大巨蛋不用座談不用公聽會不用議會同意你私自說要蓋就蓋了大巨蛋難道也不需要用電了嗎我要說民進黨在救火國民黨在放火民進黨在減煤減排"},{"start":25172.459,"end":25183.969,"text":"好谢谢陈培委员的发言接下来徐富奎委员发言完结束之后我们将会休息十分钟休息之后首先再请陈素月委员发言现在请徐富奎委员请"},{"start":25190.447,"end":25205.108,"text":"主席 各位同仁台中市長盧秀燕為了爭奪國民黨黨主席的大位甚至問鼎2028年總統的位置我想她用了中火的議題不斷來搏版面"},{"start":25206.397,"end":25227.946,"text":"我們看到的是盧市長在所有的民調裡面一直不斷地下滑不顧市政只想著做大衛這些表現對台中市民情何以堪台中不要火力發電廠用電成長卻是全國第一盧市長只為了個人的權益卻要犧牲台灣我們提出最高的一個譴責"},{"start":25229.554,"end":25258.584,"text":"台中的天空霧濛濛盧市長用毫無科技的根據來抹黑台電根據數據顯示台中的火力發電原本最高的燃煤量高達1800萬噸但是去年已經下降到1187萬噸減煤量超過三分之一我想這是我們民進黨政府不斷努力的結果藉由減煤興建空污的防治設施我想這部分我們努力了再努力"},{"start":25259.144,"end":25283.612,"text":"很遺憾的盧市長不但不思考問題出在哪裡反而一再抹黑我們的執政黨根據目前環境部委託雲林科大所做的一個專案計畫中部的空氣污染只有2.5%是由電力業造成的有18%是來自於交通工具那中部的交通工具的污染源是全台比例最高的"},{"start":25284.532,"end":25303.939,"text":"盧秀燕與其不斷的炒作中火製造空氣污染不如應該怎麼思考解決台中的交通問題減少排碳的機會反觀台中市政府自己管轄的焚化爐空污排放量不減反增去年排放量更是成長了48%這樣的一個結果造成"},{"start":25307.54,"end":25322.729,"text":"而台中人的健康其實就被當成一個政治的籌碼用台中人的肺在燒垃圾台中用電量成長全國第一隨著城市的發展用電量不斷的激增到去年已經高達350億度"},{"start":25325.05,"end":25350.147,"text":"名列全台六都的第一台中人想要用电却不想火力发电在台中天理下哪有这么好的事情我想这个不是政治议题这个是我们全民关注的一个问题发电经济攸关全国家的一个防卫的一个韧性卢市长要求中火停疫得力的"},{"start":25350.728,"end":25379.217,"text":"是誰呢是台中人還是什麼人他只是把他當作一個政治的籌碼在這邊我要再次譴責藍白兩黨我們支持減少排碳要顧台中人的費但是我們反對藍白卻硬要重啟河山場我們屏東人情何以堪大罷免大成功好謝謝徐副魁委員的發言報告會我們現在休息十分鐘現在休息"},{"start":25960.151,"end":25961.032,"text":"我們繼續開會 接下來請陳樹越委員發言 郭國文請準備"},{"start":25977.13,"end":26005.006,"text":"主席 各位委員我們今天在這裡討論國民黨羅廷偉等29人針對台中發電廠因逐年提出並落實減煤計畫的議決案提案說明中有一段文字說過去經濟部對台中市民承諾增一氣拆一煤的減煤規劃如今不減反增中火將持續成為國內最大型的燃煤發電廠二氧化碳的排放量也將持續居世界前茅"},{"start":26005.766,"end":26019.802,"text":"這樣的敘述是惡意的造謠和抹黑我們先來說如果國民黨認為台中火力發電廠是製造空污的最大來源那麼造成這種狀況的罪魁禍首是誰呢就是國民黨"},{"start":26020.583,"end":26046.697,"text":"因為台中電廠的10部燃煤機組都是在1997年之前國民黨執政時期所決策跟興建的而且台中電廠的用煤量跟空污排放量最高峰是在2014年當時是誰執政呢是國民黨的馬英九執政當時的台中市長是胡志強市長而當時身為台中市選出台的立委盧秀燕你當時有出生嗎"},{"start":26047.597,"end":26074.239,"text":"直到民进党执政蔡总统上任之后我们努力减少台中电厂的用煤量降低空污排放量从2016年到现在台中电厂已经减煤600万吨更降低七成的空污排放量数据会说话我们持续的减煤减排让用煤量连年的创新低这就是最好的证明国民党做不到的事情民进党做到了所以请国民党不要再骗了"},{"start":26075.099,"end":26086.428,"text":"請盧秀燕不要再騙了在這裡也要澄清一下根據環境部委託學者研究我國PM2.5的來源境外傳輸佔了46.6%交通員佔了12.2%工業員佔了10.7%電力員只佔2.3%台電為了兼顧民眾的健康跟穩定用電的需求"},{"start":26096.916,"end":26104.544,"text":"持續的推動增氣減煤用空污排放和碳排量比較低的天然發電要來天然氣發電要來取代燃煤發電但是當台電2020年3月到2021年6月總共申請了8次"},{"start":26112.552,"end":26125.867,"text":"台中電廠的燃氣機組操作許可證的時候身為台中市長的盧秀燕你擋了一年半的時間都不通過你一邊罵台中電廠燃煤機組製造空污另一方面你又卡可以改善空污的燃氣機組的運轉"},{"start":26127.369,"end":26153.283,"text":"你的居心何在你只想讓台中市民沒有電可用嗎2014年當立委的時候無視空污排放量跟用煤量創新高的人是你當市長後阻擋台中發電廠燃氣機組運轉的人也是你這樣的兩面手法真的是令人不齒今天國民黨提案要在2028年完成無煤中火的減碳目標要完成這樣的無煤中火的目標必須要讓燃氣機組趕快興建運轉啊"},{"start":26155.684,"end":26171.667,"text":"一边喊一边卡这样扯后腿是要如何达成这样的目标呢要让国民党不要好谢谢陈书彦委员发言接下来我们请郭国文委员发言罗美林委员请准备主席各位同仁"},{"start":26183.407,"end":26200.702,"text":"本期今天看到羅廷偉 黃建豪等人所提的這個提案我個人感到感慨萬千為什麼在過去台中的火力發電所造成的高潤的過程當中大家都非常清楚是在馬英九執政時期所造成的結果"},{"start":26201.704,"end":26217.201,"text":"而這樣的結果呢在民進黨執政之後所形成的這個政治壓力我們不斷地改進不斷地修正不斷地進步的情況底下卻造成他們有政治操作的空間而今天啊台中這三位三保立委之所以這樣的提案"},{"start":26218.188,"end":26237.418,"text":"無非是從師故技之所以會從師故技是因為詞綴之謂為什麼過去老老屢屢用盡各種這個口號不論是用愛發電也好用廢發電也好奪取最多政治利益的其實就是盧秀燕本人"},{"start":26238.206,"end":26257.273,"text":"可是過程當中,當我們整個天然氣發電廠的基礎建設好之後,阻撓最出力的也是台中市政府。台中市政府不給證照,結果呢,逼著經濟部、中央政府不得不介入發出特種的證照,才得以天然氣運作,才得以達到這個減碳的結果。"},{"start":26259.336,"end":26286.408,"text":"現在減碳的成績出來了又成為他們操作的方式想要從2035或2034提早到2028要去除到所有的藍莓機組有可能嗎藍莓機組的備用是備而不用之所以備而不用的理由非常清楚一來極端氣候因素的考量二來是地緣政治的思考所以不得不這藍莓機組一定要備著"},{"start":26287.25,"end":26299.967,"text":"我今天提案啊,讓我不禁聯想到啊,這又是一種癱瘓國家的作為。這個作為其實呼籲了什麼?呼籲了之前啊,翁小玲所說的,如果是台電大停電的話,對藍營比較有利。"},{"start":26304.526,"end":26318.596,"text":"這根本是在落實翁小玲的一個想法的構思嘛根本是在製造國內的分段造成這一個兩岸之間讓人家對岸有跡可乘的地方各位"},{"start":26320.002,"end":26345.607,"text":"過去馬英九執政到民進黨執政剛剛多位委員已經提到中火的排炭量到現在已經減了六百萬噸排炭的成績呢已經超過七成之九我們必須說在過程當中每一個地方都在努力特別我說身處的台南現階段是整個太陽能綠能發電當中負擔最多的地方"},{"start":26346.847,"end":26372.819,"text":"過去這些政策責任負擔的情況底下每一個區域的居民都要做一些承擔的情況底下結果我看到台中市的台中市政府卻不斷用政治操作只考量那政治利益不是真正的為環境為台中市民來做考量這樣的政府其實應該被唾棄大罷免一定要大成功好謝謝郭國文委員的發言接下來羅美玲委員發言黃建豪委員請準備"},{"start":26381.638,"end":26403.41,"text":"主席 各位同仁 針對台中市的三位國民黨委員共同提出的中火應於2028年完成無煤化的決議案如果仔細對照目前的能源政策和中火實際轉型進度就會發現他們根本刻意忽略了電力規劃的時程和條件這恐怕會對台灣的供電穩定"},{"start":26404.771,"end":26415.625,"text":"還有這個產業的發展帶來巨大的衝擊國民黨立委怕罷免就是不斷地抹黑 不斷地造謠我們絕對不能夠坐視不管也不容國民兩黨"},{"start":26417.245,"end":26438.268,"text":"国中两党操纵民意 煽动民粹怕被罢免就乱开支票抛出不切实际的口号来骗选票其实台电已经规划两阶段来推动以气换煤整体的目标是2034年底完成无煤化这是在确保供电稳定下最可行的节奏"},{"start":26439.029,"end":26455.391,"text":"國民黨應要提前到2028年停用所有的燃煤機組等於一口氣拿掉八部的機載電力不只衝擊民生和工業用電連台灣科技產業的發展都會受阻這種做法根本不是反燃煤而是反產業反發展"},{"start":26457.293,"end":26460.774,"text":"台電這幾年透過以氣代煤來改善防滯的設備已經把中火的空污排放從2016年的10.7萬噸降到2024年的3.4萬噸減少近七成環境部研究也提出來了台灣的PM2.5來源有將近一半是境外移入電力業只佔了2.3%"},{"start":26484.122,"end":26502.988,"text":"甚至比這個交通的12.2%和工業的10.7%還要少所以我們不允許他們為了政治目的把中火當成戴罪羔羊尤其是盧秀燕市長放著空污更嚴重的文山焚化爐改建的這個問題不管"},{"start":26503.968,"end":26527.298,"text":"反而急着关掉中火的燃煤机组这根本是把治理的无能转嫁给市民及台电中火的10部燃煤机组是国民党政府在1990年代核定的而用煤最多控污最严重的时期呢刚好就是马英九当总统胡志强当市长卢学院当立委的那段时间反而是从2016年"},{"start":26528.499,"end":26557.176,"text":"蔡英文总统上任之后呢才开始大幅的减煤改善空气的品质蓝白两党现在一面要拆机组关中火形同削弱了台湾的能源安全甚至连国防呢都会受到影响这整件事件凸显出蓝白立委不懂专业又爱抹黑而卢秀燕市长呢则是在空污治理跟这个产业这个政策上呢是毫无这个作为最后我们要强调大罢免一定要大成功"},{"start":26559.612,"end":26578.241,"text":"好謝謝羅美玲委員的發言接下來我們請黃建浩委員發言廖偉祥委員請準備好謝謝主席各位委員我想我們今天這個提案首先我們要講"},{"start":26579.485,"end":26599.298,"text":"我們確實也肯定台電在中火減煤上的努力所以今天的提案並不是在檢討說中火都沒有減煤今天的提案是衡量整個能源政策之後我們希望台中火力電廠能夠在2028年達到無煤中火的一個目標"},{"start":26600.765,"end":26620.555,"text":"今天在討論過程裡面台電發的新聞稿講說台電承諾中火只發9部機組如果以500萬我來計算的話發電佔比將近14%以目前的電力供應狀況評估中火在2028年如果無煤我國的電力系統可能面臨癱瘓我想講說如果以上言論是真的"},{"start":26621.235,"end":26644.866,"text":"那就表示一件事情就是台電在打臉經濟部公布的全國電力資源供需報告表示經濟部公布的全國電力資源供需報告可能是假資料我們要討論能源問題所以我們要有數據我想請問一下經濟部公布的全國電力資源供需報告是真實的數據還是粉飾太平的假資料"},{"start":26645.706,"end":26660.336,"text":"我們為什麼講2028 而不是其他年份我們依據剛剛那份報告從今年開始算全國的火力發電 燃氣發電 不含綠電114年會競爭1660百萬瓦115年競爭1110116年競爭600117年 一年就競爭5620百萬瓦而台中火力電廠的裝置容量總共也就才5500百萬瓦而已"},{"start":26675.507,"end":26692.604,"text":"所以到2028年不包含所會增加的綠電總氣光是增加的燃氣機組就能夠增加8990百萬瓦遠遠大於中火老舊燃煤機組的5500百萬瓦那如果台電認為2028無煤中火會導致電力癱瘓那請台電告訴我們"},{"start":26696.608,"end":26721.597,"text":"這份經濟部出的報告總計燃氣給增加到8990這個數字到底是真的數字還是假的數字那再來台中火力電廠現在主力為燃煤電廠燃煤的裝置容量這麼高也是台灣目前最大的單一火力電廠那按照經濟部的規劃未來總共要新增到六部燃氣機組然後留下六部燃煤機組來備用換句話說"},{"start":26724.653,"end":26738.928,"text":"每一個燃氣機組如果它的裝置能量1300六部就已經是7200就已經比現在還多了然後你再留六部保留下來當作備用我們從興達電廠案例可以看到備用就是可能隨時來啟用"},{"start":26740.369,"end":26757.55,"text":"而偏偏台中電廠跟新南電廠一樣都是舊的亞磷界機組台電自己都發過報告知道說新的這個所謂的超超磷界機組才是相對比較乾淨的能源卻留下最舊的給台中那這個部分我們台中當然不能接受"},{"start":26775.553,"end":26781.778,"text":"好 謝謝黃建豪委員的發言接下來我們請廖偉祥委員發言賴世保委員請準備"},{"start":26794.488,"end":26795.33,"text":"主席各位同仁"},{"start":26796.127,"end":26820.626,"text":"今天我們討論2028五美中火的主決議這不只是台中的事更是全台灣人民健康與永續發展的關鍵首先事實勝於雄辯有很多民進黨委員前面提到故意用焚化爐來混淆視聽根據環境部公布的資料中火每年的空氣污染排放量是焚化爐的50倍以上"},{"start":26821.526,"end":26844.045,"text":"中火長年以來都是中部空污的最大污染源更是全球碳排最高的電廠之一這不是任何人可以否認的事實台中市政府近年來也強力監督裁伐中火也慢慢地讓用煤量逐年下降這是地方民意的勝利不是誰可以輕易抹煞的"},{"start":26844.545,"end":26856.779,"text":"第二 健康不能等待根據台大公衛學者推估如果中火持續燃眉到2034年恐怕會導致將近兩萬人因空污提前失去生命"},{"start":26858.218,"end":26877.809,"text":"燃煤產生的PM2.5、重金屬、致癌物讓我們的孩子、長輩每天都在承受風險台灣肺癌、心血管疾病高居不下這都跟空污有密切的相關我們有責任為下一代打造乾淨的呼吸環境第三,能源轉型做得到"},{"start":26878.729,"end":26893.08,"text":"根據經濟部自己的電力資源供需報告,2028年前全台新增的燃氣機組再生能源的裝置容量已足以取代中火現在有的燃煤發電量。"},{"start":26894.241,"end":26909.162,"text":"那2024年的中火新燃氣機組即將上線那2026年還有很多更多的替代電力要加入只要政府決心汰除燃煤我想2028年完全可以做到無煤中火不會影響供電穩定"},{"start":26910.183,"end":26937.163,"text":"最後我要強調現在政府做不到過去承諾的增一氣拆一煤那所謂的增氣不拆煤就是拖延跟欺騙合三除一後我們可以看到許多的這個廚藝電廠偷偷開啟而中火呢一週就多燒了同一年同期比上一年同期多燒了五萬噸的煤這代表我們的呼吸空間再次被壓縮每多燒一天的煤就是多一份健康的風險"},{"start":26939.213,"end":26953.711,"text":"這是對中部居民非常的不公平喔那我也要嚴正的告訴大家錯誤的能源政策讓中火火力全開中南部人民用廢發電這樣的事情已經讓全民火大我們不同意讓百姓繼續用廢發電"},{"start":26955.68,"end":26970.564,"text":"各位同仁,2028美中火是我們對健康、對環境、對未來的承諾,懇請大家支持這項決議,讓台灣真正邁向乾淨、安全的能源新時代。謝謝大家。"},{"start":26997.266,"end":27001.91,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長今天本席要談的題目是2028中華無煤發電"},{"start":27006.172,"end":27035.195,"text":"有人講說啊你為什麼你台北的你關心台中的 抱歉我台中人我的故鄉在台中我的家人都在台中我很關心台中的空汙台中原來是好山好水啊有紅胎來喔 台中都沒事啊有個中央沙漠有個中央沙漠擋在那裡所以再大的颱風都進不來 除了那一年八一七水災更有機會造成重害 大家很愛台中的啦"},{"start":27037.061,"end":27065.421,"text":"生活位不高拼幾個站我在那裡住了18年我19歲念大學離開的結果沉寂而死現在看到說住台中的人都通通的要搬回台北了是怎樣空氣太慢啊盧秀燕市長很緊張啊針對南美的機組第二號 第三號 第六號 第七號 第十號"},{"start":27068.305,"end":27091.353,"text":"兩雞肺症了 三雞預期了就是希望能夠維持台中好的空氣啊讓大家不要因為用愛發電 用肺發電 用命發電用台中部的人 還不僅僅是台中市 中華也對啊中華也對啊 婚姻也對啊 大家都對啊"},{"start":27092.543,"end":27117.822,"text":"就是因為我們的錯誤的人員政策而且現在最惡劣的是什麼最惡劣的是當台中市長打撤照的時候不給發執照的時候為什麼環境部部長把他撤照請問你環境部長彭啟明你有沒有名利基礎啊你是怎麼樣 你是因為長官閃失你啊你有這麼大的權利嗎"},{"start":27119.741,"end":27148.176,"text":"不要忘了中央跟地方政府都是民選的喔盧秀燕 賴清德一票一票選出來盧秀燕也是一票一票選出來的為什麼你可以踐踏盧秀燕的一個她的命運她的決定就是不可以再燒藍莓了為什麼你要把她撤掉你說就說 哇 蔡英文只賺空氣我賺 賭我賺看看 如果這樣子的話"},{"start":27149.742,"end":27167.854,"text":"盧秀燕撤照藍媒的機組你們應該鼓掌啊 要感謝啊怎麼可以這樣子扯後腿呢彭啟明到底是什麼東西啊他憑什麼跟人家撤照人家選出來 百萬選出來的台中市長他的命令被這樣檢查"},{"start":27169.968,"end":27192.416,"text":"這個啊賴清德已經把總統變成超級總統制了地方走的跨了北宋的街頭天底下沒有這個事情了看看美國爸爸他做什麼謝謝賴思寶委員發言接下來我們請葛如君委員發言楊瓊英委員請準備"},{"start":27197.443,"end":27197.785,"text":"1972年 國天公園"},{"start":27204.915,"end":27225.96,"text":"過去經濟部向台中承諾增益器拆煤的減煤計畫也就是透過燃氣機組來取代燃煤機組沒想到私信於民對這些原本計畫要在燃氣機組興建完成以後要廚藝的舊燃煤機組政府卻不廚藝了轉成緊急備用機組"},{"start":27229.341,"end":27246.919,"text":"然後當氣溫上升用電需求增加備轉容量降低的時候就名正言順的來啟用它台中的民眾就很好奇到底煤減在哪裡碳減在哪裡大家只看到蒸氣完全沒有看到減煤減碳"},{"start":27248.801,"end":27263.932,"text":"這些機組都應該在6%、8%的備轉容量以下才能夠啟用的但是我們的行政院長竟然說打開APP看備載容量17%電夠用電真的夠用嗎"},{"start":27264.873,"end":27284.992,"text":"核三二號機停機以後17 18號的晚上中火各機組運轉高達90%繼續開到半夜凌晨我們的民眾在睡覺一邊吸入這些燒煤產生的東西造成的空污當然對居民健康有嚴重的影響"},{"start":27286.013,"end":27312.788,"text":"我們的肺癌 肺腺癌 致死率都持續的在提高民進黨政府期待用再生能源來取代核能然而光電在半夜無法發電在夏季的風電效率不佳因此核電造成的電力缺口勢必得要火力全開來補足而可能還是越補越不足"},{"start":27313.428,"end":27327.885,"text":"未來隨著氣候越來越加炎熱夜間的用電需求上升台電就只能靠著犧牲燃煤電廠附近居民的費來補足錯誤的能源政策造成的缺口"},{"start":27329.246,"end":27345.775,"text":"經濟部老是說供電無虞不缺電然而真的不缺哪需要偷開老舊燃煤電廠的機組呢每次要出現缺口的時候就偷偷開機又告訴民眾不缺電"},{"start":27347.055,"end":27362.202,"text":"難道只是會跳電只是會限電嗎不缺電的2032年電價是多少我們的政府敢不敢保證不要漲電價5月21號興達電廠偷偷開機發電接著我們還有更多的電廠都偷偷開機發電"},{"start":27369.245,"end":27395.159,"text":"甚至無照運轉超過五個月如今核電研議法法規已經解除我們還要承受多久用費發電不要讓台中居民成為錯誤能源政策下健康的犧牲品謝謝謝謝葛如君委員的發言接下來我們請楊瓊英委員發言武力華委員請準備"},{"start":27407.121,"end":27424.105,"text":"好謝謝請尊重發言委員權益謝謝主席韓院長楊瓊瑜發言各位同仁新聞界的朋友各位國人減煤是全國人民的共識攸關的下一代的健康跟發展我們要求台中火力發電廠逐年提出並落實"},{"start":27425.405,"end":27453.047,"text":"改善減煤的計畫提出就是因為民眾擔心政府倉促的廢核之後台灣成為火電家園我們要請政府跟台電面對數據不要硬拗好好地落實減煤的計畫去年中國機組在環評爭議的時候政府跳票過去爭議氣難棄就減燃煤機組的承諾還不敢提出中國逐年減煤的規劃"},{"start":27455.028,"end":27466.091,"text":"當時行政院跟台電所提出是說一直要到2031年才可以從1260萬公噸減到900萬公噸但事實現在每一年的中火是大概燒煤1100萬公噸至1200萬公噸所以換句話說從現在開始到2031年7年當中根本沒有減煤的計畫政府猛開未來7年的燃煤"},{"start":27483.195,"end":27504.113,"text":"减煤的这个超时空支票但是对于今年的减煤计划根本没有提出而且说不清楚数据提不出来无视于台中人长期受电厂的影响想要一个健康的一个空气的一个新生政府要争气"},{"start":27506.074,"end":27520.66,"text":"來發電大家都接受但是蒸汽如果不減煤那麼排放只會越來越多所以到底為什麼政府不拿出這個數字減煤計畫到底是因為沒有計畫還是因為怕缺電而不敢承諾我們也看到5月17號河山停役之後台灣進入到非核家園的狀況"},{"start":27530.143,"end":27550.416,"text":"那么台中火力发电厂就在这个时刻呈现了火力全开从17号到20号我们看到这几天的晚上火力中火的机组高达90%的运转而且10部的南北机组有一部它是水修换句话说左部它是超运转"},{"start":27551.256,"end":27556.658,"text":"發電量也比去年同期的增加到1000至2000MW所以換句話說從5月17號到23號燃煤24萬噸幣那麼今年暴增到29萬噸也就是說7天內我們增加了將近5萬公噸所以因此數據會說話"},{"start":27571.283,"end":27594.413,"text":"如果一邊嘴上說我會減煤另外一邊就火力全開再加開這樣的政府政策絕對沒有辦法進臨轉型所以我請政府不要再當鴕鳥能源錯就趕快改減煤的配套以及數據請拿出來我們絕對不接受火電家園也絕對不接受台中人"},{"start":27599.031,"end":27599.632,"text":"大家好"},{"start":27618.362,"end":27639.425,"text":"等一下我們就要來表決中火公爵看一下這個主文改善空氣品質當然要改善守護國人健康當然要守護台中發電廠因逐年提出並落實減煤計畫台中電廠一直都這麼做而且是全國的自由生"},{"start":27641.533,"end":27667.147,"text":"在2028年完成無煤中火之國家減碳目標三年後我們就要完成無煤中火非常讓人錯愕到底葫蘆裡想要賣什麼藥減煤不是不能減停機不是不能停但是總要講個道理台中電廠他有規劃要在2034年"},{"start":27669.301,"end":27684.861,"text":"在這個之後燃煤的燃氣機組全部蓋好再來除液所有的燃煤機組2028到2034就6年有這麼急嗎非要急救張嗎"},{"start":27686.872,"end":27702.823,"text":"我想到今年本來要上路的國土計畫我們原住民族人等了很久但是硬生生表決也要把它延後6年那麼該等的不能等"},{"start":27703.995,"end":27720.552,"text":"該做的一言再言這真的是很奇怪那我們來證明一下誰是口惠實不至誰才是真正想要減煤減碳減空污回頭看2008年"},{"start":27723.489,"end":27737.722,"text":"當時台中電廠的空污量是歷史最高標那個時候總統是馬英九市長是胡志強立委是盧秀燕最愛讓台中市民用廢發電的應該就是他們"},{"start":27740.905,"end":27755.78,"text":"但是2016年蔡英文總統上任後減煤600萬噸空污減排超過7x7是歷史最新低也是所有台中空污減排成效的第一名"},{"start":27757.721,"end":27785.433,"text":"這個還不是終極目標因為2050淨零碳排是政府執政黨持續努力在不缺電和淨零之間所做的一個平衡跟努力到時候空氣OK守護健康OK無煤中火OK這個就是用實際行動來減碳而不是喊喊口號嘴巴說說"},{"start":27787.301,"end":27798.973,"text":"能源政策關乎國家運作的基石一點都閃適不得我們深怕有人要癱瘓政府的運作這些出賣台灣的人歷史絕對會好好記住謝謝"},{"start":27819.592,"end":27823.106,"text":"中國鄉親大家好能源轉型包括藍莓"},{"start":27824.966,"end":27848.341,"text":"轉燃氣提升電網性推動再生能源這是需要時間以科學規劃的一個大工程絕對不是喊口號噴政治口水就能完成針對台中三位國民黨立委共同提出的中媒應該在二零二八年完成無媒化的一個提案看似環保實際上"},{"start":27850.282,"end":27869.401,"text":"其實就是把它導向民粹毫無配套不僅罔顧電力網以國安的一個備戰更可能讓南部再一次被犧牲被迫承擔更多的化電的責任台中電廠是長年支撐前台供電的重要支柱"},{"start":27870.302,"end":27889.129,"text":"行政院卓議院長已經承諾提前推動在2034年完成中火的無煤化本席要在這裡強調 民進黨政府的能源轉型政策的目標從來都沒有模糊台中電廠在第一期燃煤機組今年 明年就要陸續上線"},{"start":27890.529,"end":27905.254,"text":"第二期也正式完成環評顯示南美轉南企正在穩健的一個進行中但是南白的提案卻是提前6年來停美卻完全沒有提出來"},{"start":27906.014,"end":27926.729,"text":"替代的一個方案這會有什麼樣嚴重的後果呢會導致中火必須要提前除役讓整個整體的一個能源轉型進度更加的落後供電一旦不穩定一來最有可能重啟的就是我們南部的藍莓機組二來"},{"start":27928.911,"end":27944.845,"text":"南白又可以針對的南部的這個河山研議繼續政治的操作簡單的來講就是假環保真惡搞那如果這個提案通過的話等同要用南部的電來補北部的電"},{"start":27945.786,"end":27966.555,"text":"各位南部的鄉親你們覺得這樣是公平的嗎當然是不公平所以在這裡要提醒各位鄉親中火的十部南梅機組都是在中國國民黨時期設立的而空污最嚴重的時候當初的總統是馬英九市長是胡志強"},{"start":27967.415,"end":27987.386,"text":"台中市的立委是盧秀燕變成台中市長的盧秀燕還好意思拿股關的空氣出來騙票真正解決空污的辦法是民進黨政府在九年來中火我們滅了煤六百萬噸空污減排七成"},{"start":27988.246,"end":28007.052,"text":"不僅是靠嘴巴說說或是胡亂的提案而是台電上上下下所有人的努力能源轉型是講究理性跟科學的必經之道大罷免大成功好謝謝賴會員委員的發言接下來我們請閻寬恆委員發言莊瑞雄委員請準備"},{"start":28014.427,"end":28041.813,"text":"主席各位同仁5月17日台灣正式進入非核家園國人最擔心的是會不會缺電經濟部長拍胸部保證供電穩定但非核家園才進入第二週全國各地都發生停電事件台電雖然回復是動物物處線路及潰線故障所引起的停電但夏季本來就是用電高峰不穩定供電影響最大的就是民生當政府要停止徵收某項稅收時"},{"start":28044.153,"end":28069.251,"text":"都會尋找其他裁員補進然而核電廚藝顯然是沒有辦法補足相等的備載電力不然就不會重啟沒有操作許可的燃煤機組高雄興達電廠三四號機燃煤機組在今年四五月被發現啟動三次另外早已廚藝的高雄大林電廠五號機至今已重啟八次核三廠廚藝後台中火力發電廠七天內多燒了五萬噸的煤"},{"start":28071.713,"end":28090.291,"text":"綠能發電不穩定受到天候地理位置政治因素限制一個颱風或受大陸政策影響短期內無法供電都有可能會面臨到全國限電的困境藍莓基礎重啟本身就是一場退步藍莓對環境及國人健康的危害眾所皆知"},{"start":28091.496,"end":28110.531,"text":"燃煤機組重啟加大燃煤量就是打臉民進黨政府過去的承諾未來就算中火新增燃氣機組除疫被疫的燃煤機組還是隨時會重啟當初中火燃氣機組通過環評的重要條件就是減煤就是燃煤機組拆除除疫"},{"start":28111.011,"end":28124.15,"text":"但看到高雄星達和大林發電機組的案例之後全國民眾驚覺被騙了原來執政黨要繼續用中部人的肺換取發電我手上拿的"},{"start":28124.972,"end":28152.202,"text":"是全國各縣市發電量電力自給率的統計表前面有委員用縣市的發電自給率來刻意誤導要把台中塑造城市依靠其他縣市發電才能補足用電量但要告訴大家的是台南自給率也只有36%台北2%難道總統府行政院及各部會都不用發電嗎我們談的是北中南東供電區請不要用單一縣市來誤導民眾"},{"start":28154.397,"end":28161.324,"text":"根據台電的統計資料核能佔2024年發電量的4.7%再生能源11.9%燃煤31.1%燃氣47.2%核能發電的發電成本在2025一到三月份是一度1.76元而購買再生能源"},{"start":28174.117,"end":28199.714,"text":"風力一度6.58元太陽能一度4.8元購買燃氣則一度3.62元特別是風電的部分買入賣出的價格差異懸殊等於買一度就要虧一度錯誤的能源政策不但救不了發電量反而讓燃煤要增加最無辜的還是全國民眾謝謝閻寬恆委員的發言接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言陳冠廷委員請準備"},{"start":28210.658,"end":28234.346,"text":"謝謝主席 我們在場的媒體朋友 全國朋友 大家午安我今天從早上聽到現在啊 國民黨的朋友啊 實在是不知道怎麼說你啦 還是媽寶啦上一次河山要研議的時候啊 我們在修核官法國民黨的朋友我就跟你們警告啦 不要把人家的孩子死不掉"},{"start":28235.663,"end":28261.994,"text":"全台灣的民眾大家都非常清楚減煤 轉氣 降排這個是任何小學生都知道讓全民有更健康的空氣那誰不要國民黨的朋友你可以更有氣魄一點啊你可以把它做成一個決議啊在今年年底以後就百分之百全部都是中火就是全部都是無煤啊"},{"start":28264.312,"end":28291.004,"text":"你也可以做這樣的一個決議啊為了台東 為了台中人的健康快速的讓他變成無媒這是好事嘛 這是好事但是呢 在做這種決議然後在論述的過程裡面你強調的全部都是健康那我要請問啊那屏東人的健康呢那台東人的健康呢垃圾場你不要"},{"start":28293.281,"end":28314.912,"text":"藍莓廠你也不要 發電藍莓發電的你也不要你的意思就是說 核管法已經通過了那繼續屏東在河山就好了核廢料繼續放在屏東就好了核廢料繼續放在台東南宇就好了那全國除了屏東跟台東看不見的以外 其他人就健康了天底下有這樣的政客"},{"start":28316.857,"end":28321.449,"text":"天底下有這樣的政客 把人家都死不了這個議題怎麼來的 這個議題就很簡單嘛"},{"start":28326.179,"end":28348.941,"text":"2014年是最高峰嘛最高峰誰當家誰當然要負責啊民進黨責任蔡英文總統今天大家一直在討論她確實是降牌的部分已經到達超過七成啊減煤也將接近四成三成多啊這個就是努力嘛 努力不足民進黨政府還是有責任嘛但是在論述的過程裡面"},{"start":28350.354,"end":28365.65,"text":"讓我們屏東跟台東人就看不下去啊說哎喲 飛河家園誰叫你這個把河山你們全部民進黨要把它拉飛河家園時間到了貢獻40年本來就是該除役啊就這麼簡單啊要被罷免了拋出這樣的一個議題"},{"start":28374.125,"end":28390.089,"text":"不要叫真的不要叫要哭要叫罷免完回家好好的哭再好好的叫提出這種沒有良心的議案然後把不受歡迎你不想要的丟給屏東丟給台東這樣的政客要罷免掉好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言接下來我們請陳冠廷委員發言省發會委員請準備"},{"start":28410.926,"end":28432.898,"text":"主席 各位同仁大家好那關於台中發電廠的這個減煤路徑它攸關的是中部的空氣品質跟我們的國家的能源的安全那追求我們淨零的目標是非常重要不過一個負責任的政策它必須同時要注重能源的彈性還有韌性首先我們要先肯定過去的努力結果"},{"start":28433.918,"end":28460.896,"text":"台中电厂自2016年到2024年燃煤使用量减少了560万吨空污排放降低了76%这些都是数字这些都是具体的数据这些进展已经证明政府已经发了很多心思来去减煤也说明了稳健能源转型它还是需要时间我必须要再次强调能源转型它不是开关的切换而已它是精密的系统工程"},{"start":28461.856,"end":28489.601,"text":"現在國際情勢的變化是非常劇烈那還有加上我們的極端氣候頻率維持能源的供應彈性至關重要把部分的燃煤機組轉為備用不是退步而是在再生能源在尚未穩定前的必要保險如果我們貿然的去廢除所有的備用機組一旦遇到天然氣供應中斷或者是再生能源因天候巨降或者是尖峰用電激增的時候那後果就不堪設想"},{"start":28490.661,"end":28509.84,"text":"在野黨也不斷強調說能源的韌性還有你們也提告說要用新能源的方式來去應對這樣子的狀況那我們現在在台中不就是在做好一些準備嗎2024年的數據我們來做為例子台中市的用電需求它是超出中火發電量的80億度"},{"start":28511.401,"end":28530.048,"text":"顯現出區域電力調度它是有它的複雜性的在燃氣機組陸續上線儲能設備逐漸設置的過渡期我必須要再次強調保留彈性調度空間是負責任的做法而且就實際的數據我們來看中國已經超過6年沒有讓10部機組同時滿載所以這證明了備用不等於常態的運轉"},{"start":28538.288,"end":28563.254,"text":"我們務實的做法是應該堅持減煤的目標不變但是給予合理的轉型時程讓燃氣的發電穩定上限再生能源的配套完善智慧電網充分介質才能夠真正實現乾淨穩定的能源系統這是確保我們每一個路上都是在走上正確的腳步走在正確的路上確保我們的能源安全"},{"start":28563.954,"end":28592.689,"text":"所以我在此也要呼籲我們政業黨的同仁能源轉型它不是一個政治鬥爭的工具我們可以一同持續監督行政部門先進後拆蒸汽減煤的原則我們也可以要求定期報告那轉型進度還有配套措施但是我們也希望政業黨能夠理解我們行政機關需要這樣子的時間才可以在現實跟需求間找到最佳的平衡這是兼顧環境永續跟能源安全的最好方法謝謝大家"},{"start":28595.112,"end":28618.648,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員的發言報議會下面一位是登記第40號的審發會委員審發會委員發言完畢之後我們根據朝野協商開始要進行表決處理我們剩下沒有發言的委員有登記請將書面發言意見補列入公報記錄接下來我們請審發會委員請發言"},{"start":28638.841,"end":28643.504,"text":"各位同仁我們今天大家在這裡花了一整天的時間在討論國民黨台中"},{"start":28649.085,"end":28676.414,"text":"三個公子哥立委所提出來的這個一個說要在兩年後就讓這個中火能夠全部停止燃煤這樣子的這個就是國民黨那時候說他們要研會要審這個民生法案結果他們今天所提出來的第一個案子我們所討論的第一個案子是這樣子的案子"},{"start":28677.529,"end":28704.101,"text":"從早上聽到現在我聽到國民黨委員的發言我覺得這裡面實在有太多太多他們所講的一些扣上的一些帽子其實都不是事實其實這些東西這很簡單就是科學現在是什麼時代2025年了一切都有數據一切都是科學到底他們所講的是事實還不是事實這都是有科學根據的"},{"start":28706.189,"end":28716.119,"text":"他們中國人在1915年就說德先生、賽先生說我們所有東西都是要以科學為根據今天早上我聽民眾黨的發言我聽國民黨的發言"},{"start":28718.612,"end":28738.411,"text":"他們說現在中火火力全開火力全開那很嚴重啊過去沒有全開就已經這個空氣汙染大家就已經很有意見了現在還火力全開結果我們把資料趕快去調出來看什麼時候有火力全開根據說從2019年到現在"},{"start":28742.472,"end":28757.681,"text":"中火的10部機組已經沒有說火力全開過了沒有10部機組同時運作過了這是造謠第一個第二個盧秀燕說中火違法發電哪裡違法 違什麼法我們空氣汙染法第30條第二項就明擺的說在還沒有遲照之前可以依原照繼續發電哪裡有違法"},{"start":28771.442,"end":28798.7,"text":"他們說是因為河山停機了所以中火補河山它的發電量所以突然火力全開發電結果去看事實事實是從河山的一號機跟二號機停役之後台中電廠它的發電量比去年同期還減少15%所以這些都是科學啊這都不是政治造謠那他們為什麼要這樣子造謠"},{"start":28800.518,"end":28823.415,"text":"是因為沒有大腦嗎我們說大腦是個好東西我很希望這三位公子哥立委也有大腦這背後齁就是盧秀燕盧秀燕大家要記得盧秀燕她就是要癱瘓台灣的能源配置大家要記得盧秀燕"},{"start":28829.825,"end":28848.22,"text":"好 謝謝沈發慧委員的發言我們現在發言到此為止已經再重申一遍登記發言及沒有發言的委員書面發言意見我們均補列入公報記錄我們現在依照黨團協商共識開始進行處理我們現在開始按鈴七分鐘並開始分發表決卡現在開始按鈴"},{"start":29295.936,"end":29313.412,"text":"好 抱怨會是否每位委員表決卡都有拿到好 都有拿到 我們要進行表決現在有黨團針對 本案分別提議一 民進黨黨團提議再修正動議修正動議二"},{"start":29315.425,"end":29331.96,"text":"國民黨黨團提議本案照案通過我們依序進行表決如果其中有任何一案通過我們就不再處理其他案現在請議事人員宣讀修正及再修正動議內容"},{"start":29333.339,"end":29353.54,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議為務實推動穩定供電並加速減煤 原請院會作成決議一 請經濟部等相關單位加速推動台中發電廠增氣減煤作業進度除務必在一百二十三年底前完成以氣換煤工程達成台中電廠無煤供電目標"},{"start":29354.241,"end":29371.989,"text":"一需積極研擬各項措施力求提前達標二未來台中發電廠六部緊急備用燃煤機組只能在國安天災因素發生時啟用並於啟動第一時間通知地方政府平時僅能做測試運轉且一年也不得運轉超過720小時三因應"},{"start":29374.83,"end":29397.351,"text":"国内外局势目前虽规划保留六部燃煤机组做紧急备用但预估在一百二十一年时台中发电厂已新增四部燃气机组在考量台电其他新建电厂是否推动顺利民营电厂是否顺利衔接全国再生能源发展情形台湾经济发展是否已达一定程度等多重条件下"},{"start":29398.091,"end":29413.164,"text":"届时应重新针对紧急备用燃煤机组进行全盘检讨与评估并加强与地方政府及居民说明和沟通以维护国人身体健康并监护产业永续发展是否有当勤工决案详如书面"},{"start":29414.205,"end":29442.174,"text":"民進黨黨團再修正動議為務實推動穩定供電並加速燃煤原請院會作成決議一 請經濟部等相關單位加速推動台中發電廠增企燃煤作業進度儲物幣在2034年底前完成以氣換煤工程達成台中電廠五煤供電目標亦需積極研擬各項措施力求提前達標二 未來台中發電廠六部緊急備用燃煤機組"},{"start":29443.194,"end":29459.913,"text":"只能在國安天災因素發生時啟用並於啟動第一時間通知地方政府平時僅能做測試運轉且一年也不得運轉超過720小時三 因應國內外局勢目前水庫號保留六部燃煤機組作緊急備用"},{"start":29460.553,"end":29479.693,"text":"但預估在2032年時台中發電廠已新增四部燃氣機組再考量台電其他新建電廠是否推動順利民營電廠是否順利銜接全國再生能源發展情形台灣經濟發展是否已達一定程度的多重條件下屆時應重新針對緊急備用燃煤機組進行全盤檢討與評估"},{"start":29482.396,"end":29493.704,"text":"并加强与地方政府及居民说明和沟通以维护国人身体健康并兼顾产业永续发展是否有当勤工决案详如书面宣读完毕"},{"start":29494.929,"end":29500.555,"text":"現在我們進行表決民進黨黨團在修正動議現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決贊成民進黨團在修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":29584.053,"end":29584.374,"text":"報名會報告表決結果"},{"start":29603.39,"end":29618.858,"text":"好 謝謝報告表決結果在場委員108位贊成50位 反對58位贊成者少數在修正動議不通過關於我們現在進行表決民進黨團提議的修正動議現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決贊成民進黨黨團修正動議 其他人贊成反對 請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":29712.063,"end":29733.654,"text":"好 謝謝現在報告表決結果在場出席委員108位贊成50位反對58位贊成者少數修正動議不通過報告委員會我們現在開始進行表決國民黨黨團提議照案通過現在有民進黨團要求"},{"start":29735.496,"end":29739.824,"text":"記名表決我們記名表決贊成國民黨團提議請按贊成 反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":29831.924,"end":29852.914,"text":"謝謝報告表決結果在場出席委員109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數照國民黨黨團提議通過謝謝報告委員會我們現在做以下決議"},{"start":29857.657,"end":29871.368,"text":"改善空氣品質、守護國人健康,台中發電廠因逐年提出並落實減煤計畫,並在2028年完成無煤中火之國家減碳目標。"},{"start":29873.323,"end":29894.623,"text":"我們現在依照黨團共識討論事項第三案及第四案處理時我們均不進行提案說明及大體討論本次會議進行之討論事項第四案處理完畢之後再行散會另外本次會議沒有委員登記臨時提案我們不進行臨時提案之處理"},{"start":29895.974,"end":29911.935,"text":"現在進行討論事項第三案本院國民黨團建議院會作成決議行政院立即全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費"},{"start":29912.575,"end":29927.792,"text":"另應由行政院自行調整3.636億餘顏請行政院長於一個月內向立法院提出專案報告請公決案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":29928.496,"end":29957.117,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於行政約一百十四年五月十六日和訂修正一百十四年度中央對各直銷市及縣市政府一般性補助款各縣市政府刪減比例高達約百分之二十七至百分之三十二查立法院通案刪減之決議其中因刪減令予補足的科目因細值一般維持費不包括補助款而因刪減令予補足的經費因細值屬於中央機關之用"},{"start":29957.978,"end":29979.287,"text":"的經費不應刪減補助地方政府的經費複查中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法第三條規定一般性補助款包括基本財政收支差段與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等補助經費如低收入戶、家庭、兒童及就學生活補助"},{"start":29979.767,"end":29994.082,"text":"無名年金老年農民福利津貼中低收入老人生活津貼身心障礙者生活補助弱勢兒童及少年生活輔助學校水電費學生午餐經費中小冷氣電費與維護費"},{"start":29996.204,"end":30024.909,"text":"還有水利 工程 清淤 輸菌文化與體育發展經費等但行政院竟以行政救濟為名在未經跟地方政府溝通下新聞給各直轄市及縣市政府禁制刪減一般性補助款嚴重影響民眾教育及社會福利等權益原件請院會作成決議行政院立即全額不符114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費"},{"start":30025.769,"end":30052.367,"text":"另應由行政院自行調整3.636億餘元請行政院院長於一個月內向立法院提出專案報告是否有當請供決案宣讀完畢報告院會依照立法院自圈新司法第八條第三項規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論之後即議決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議報告院會依照黨團共識本案不進行提案說明及大體討論"},{"start":30055.009,"end":30069.306,"text":"現有國民黨團提議禁服二讀請問會沒有異議本案禁服二讀依照立法院職權新釋法第74條之一規定交付黨團協商我們現在做以下決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":30073.991,"end":30096.568,"text":"各位我們現在進行討論事項第四案本院國民黨團建請院會作成決議請述邀請行政院長率同相關部會首長就我國是否設立國家主權基金之規劃及進程等相關事宜向立法院提出專案報告請公決案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":30097.386,"end":30115.436,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有介於國際金融情勢動盪且順行外變目前已有多個國家由政府主導設立由政府負責出資權力的獨立機構管理且以財政隱喻、天然資源或財政資本為基礎的主權基金"},{"start":30115.956,"end":30133.577,"text":"目的在於創造更多的財富操作原則偏重較高風險與低流動性的資產以換取較高報酬率透過長期投資與更廣的資產配置面向來佈局全球中央銀行才宣布國家發展委員會等部會前於立法院財政委員會"},{"start":30134.718,"end":30156.053,"text":"針對主權基金提出專題報告時就主權基金的設立目的是否制定專法監督管理機制資金來源以及主管機關等相關規定顯認為應先凝聚各界共識並審慎考量其必要性後再行存裡降為妥適中央銀行更明確表達不宜由外匯存體直接無償不用"},{"start":30156.773,"end":30173.622,"text":"朝野討論主權基金逾20年總統賴清德於就職一周年演說時宣布設立由政府主導的主權基金姿勢體大曾獲全球金融雜誌評選全球唯一14A前央行總裁彭淮南表示"},{"start":30174.102,"end":30196.153,"text":"主權基金追求報酬極大化絕對不是毫無風險2008年金融海嘯時全體主權基金虧損高達6000億美元一旦發生巨額虧損由誰負責絕對不應迴避立法院監督基此主權基金具體內容是有必要向全民說清楚講明白原進行院會做成決議"},{"start":30197.213,"end":30215.392,"text":"敬訴邀請協調院院長率同相關部會首長就我國設立國家主權基金制規劃及淨存等相關稅宜議案香港立法院提出專案報告是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢法院會依照立法院之間新司法第八條第三項規定本案經提案人說明提案子去"},{"start":30215.885,"end":30228.971,"text":"大體討論之後即議決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議依照黨團共識本案不進行提案說明即大體討論報議會現有國民黨團提議禁負二讀請問會有無異議沒有異議本案禁負二讀"},{"start":30234.315,"end":30250.779,"text":"依照立法院職權新司法第74條之一規定交付黨團協商我們現在做以下決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨團負責召集協商本會議討論事項依照黨團共識處理到此為止繼續處理復議案本院民進黨黨團針對第13次會議報告事項第374案之決定提出復議請公決案"},{"start":30264.183,"end":30270.417,"text":"現在我們做以下決定令定期處理抱怨會現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}