{"error":false,"id":["167301"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167301,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167301","日期":"2026-01-28","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-28T11:35:20+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-28T11:44:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0b5ec5fbcfced67d6df73f7e1a18259b55c72c672141dad9c672fc13014a68ae47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:35:20 - 11:44:20","會議時間":"2026-01-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"2.胡被提名人博硯-立法院第11屆第4會期內政、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送中央選舉委員會委員提名名單，游盈隆為委員並為主任委員，胡博硯為委員並為副主任委員，黃文玲、李禮仲、蘇嘉宏、蘇子喬及陳宗義均為委員，請同意案。【1月28日及29日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.2415937500000003,"end":2.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.607843750000001,"end":9.902843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.10534375,"end":12.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.244093750000001,"end":14.712218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.876593750000001,"end":16.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.93534375,"end":85.28346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.65471875,"end":103.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.88034375000001,"end":106.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.99784375,"end":111.00096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.10659375,"end":124.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.65284375,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.24346875,"end":131.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.92596875,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.68534375000002,"end":137.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.39784375000002,"end":136.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.00534375,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.47971875000002,"end":159.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.73596875,"end":177.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.07909375,"end":203.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.92096875000001,"end":193.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.75034375,"end":225.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.26846875,"end":213.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.98909375000002,"end":215.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.87034375000002,"end":218.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.41034375,"end":218.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.35846875000001,"end":230.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.06721875000002,"end":227.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.22284375,"end":235.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.84221875000003,"end":237.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.82096875000002,"end":242.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.36471875,"end":241.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.27159375000002,"end":264.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.16721875,"end":269.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.52096875,"end":270.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.59221875000003,"end":269.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.84096875,"end":273.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.23721875,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.25409375000004,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.52659375,"end":285.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.52221875000004,"end":287.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.71596875,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.01034375,"end":294.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.76534375,"end":340.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.82409375000003,"end":298.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.65284375000005,"end":347.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.09909375,"end":368.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.90909375,"end":348.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.61471875,"end":371.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.37784375,"end":374.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.37346875000003,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.53784375000004,"end":394.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.70659375,"end":374.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.95971875000004,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.02409375,"end":406.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.16221875,"end":412.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.02596875,"end":410.54909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.88659375000003,"end":416.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.17721875,"end":433.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.61721875,"end":434.56221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.06846875,"end":437.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.96284375000005,"end":439.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.73034375000003,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.79659375000006,"end":466.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.41784375000003,"end":471.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.41284375000004,"end":481.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.56784375,"end":484.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.98096875000005,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.71471875000003,"end":487.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.74846875000003,"end":485.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.96346875,"end":488.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.66346875000005,"end":511.30971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.56159375000004,"end":494.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.70846875,"end":498.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.07534375000006,"end":499.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.72346875000005,"end":515.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.00971875,"end":514.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.07284375,"end":516.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.93346875,"end":520.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.4353437500001,"end":518.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.76409375,"end":537.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.17909375,"end":537.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.8115937499999,"end":539.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.98034375,"end":540.01409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.244,"end":3.465,"text":"謝謝主席我們請被提名人胡伯彥教授胡伯彥教授被提名人好我想剛剛你有說明就是這一次的話基本上是由各黨派來推薦也是我們進入到立法院將近兩年來第一次的人事審查"},{"start":30.905,"end":59.331,"text":"是由各黨派來推薦我們當然也希望說能夠有這樣一個好的結果那當然就是今天有幾個題目我要這個就教於您那首先呢是在我們提問的一個問題當中針對中選會是否有權審查立法院的公投提案那您的書面回答得非常清楚就是依公投法第15條第二項立法院交付案件排除人民提案審核的程序"},{"start":59.83,"end":85.015,"text":"就法律解釋上應該沒有審查的適用你甚至說立法院交付本為政治決定在邏輯上不該由中選會進行合法的審查所以我在這邊請您先把你的立場講清楚你的意思是不是只要立法院三讀通過交付到中選會這樣的公投案其實中選會的角色就是依法辦理呢"},{"start":85.697,"end":101.803,"text":"我認為一件事情就是就這個法律條文解釋的邏輯上面來講因為它排除了第九條到第十三條的適用所以在這個時候如果中選會審查必須要回到一件事情上面來講就像以前所講的就是請你間斷回答是不是一個政策是不是因為在您的報告裡面在這個選擇上面來講就會是如何而且不是只有這個條文因為我們還有防衛性公投"},{"start":111.366,"end":132.012,"text":"的問題就是如果這是您的回答嗎所以是不是就是應該遇到這個有立法院三路通過交付中選會的這樣的一個公投案中選會的角色就是依法辦理對是好那所以不能再用什麼非重大決策或是合法性把他擋下來是嗎"},{"start":132.745,"end":151.38,"text":"我認為這個問題的憲政問題應該是要由大法官來去解決那接下來也是我要請教您的就是您認為如果真的有憲政問題的話那您覺得中選會雖然是獨立行政的一個機關但認為行政權的一部分並非憲政機關所以憲政上的爭議"},{"start":152.541,"end":176.863,"text":"依照憲法應該交由大法官來處理這是您的回覆所以針對這個部分中選會他不是憲政的機關所以中選會如果過度介入只會讓選務複雜這也是您在回覆中提到的所以我要問的更直接一點就是中選會直接駁回公投案是不是嚴重的越權了也僭越了大法官的職權"},{"start":178.12,"end":192.825,"text":"我其實在之前的研究報告有提出來一件事情是說中選會如果直接把人家駁回的話應該在法條裡面規範讓他立即可以去申請大官釋憲由大法官去解決所以中選會不可以駁回嗎我認為如果從我剛剛的研究報告立場上面來講從這個立場其實是可以讓他駁回但是"},{"start":199.327,"end":213.034,"text":"後面接續的就是馬上那個憲法解釋的問題可是中選會沒有權利嘛沒有權利駁回我們的公投案嘛如果照你剛剛的論點的話我們應該就是要辦理嘛那如果認為有問題的話再送交這個把憲政機關請申請釋憲的問題嘛所以這個部分的話就是好那其他機關是不是有辦法全力解釋違憲的問題"},{"start":227.261,"end":251.293,"text":"對 行政機關可不可以解釋違憲的問題實際上來講每個行政機關基本上來講都是在依據憲法來做成決定但是呢 最終而言決定有沒有違憲的問題的時候就要變成是大法官那所以說針對這個軍人加薪跟提高警校人員所得替代率的法律是否違憲 其實應該不是行政院長說了算吧"},{"start":252.133,"end":267.826,"text":"應該是要申請這個大法官釋憲由大法官來決定那在還沒有宣判違憲之前是不是就是合乎憲法在您這個法律學者的我覺得這個憲政爭議而言應該要交由大法官來處理但是因為行政院認為他是違憲的"},{"start":271.148,"end":287.53,"text":"行政院認為他是違憲就像定出來的某些制度的立法院也有可能認為他是違憲的你是不是針對這個部分就是只要還沒辦違憲之前就是合乎憲法只要還沒辦還沒有判違憲之前是不是就合乎憲法"},{"start":288.356,"end":294.898,"text":"跟委員報告就是每個行政機關他可能會認為他這個法條是違憲的所以最終他可能會去申請失憲的去做處理的因為你在國會改革的審議階段你多次的公開批評在野黨的修法是違憲擴權可是當這個中選會駁回我們的公投的時候"},{"start":306.661,"end":330.955,"text":"你卻沉默了你卻沒有站出來講說這個部分依法的話是應該不該駁回應該要依法憲政所以我覺得站在這個立場的話我覺得被庭名人你好像就是只有在監督在野黨不監督執政黨敢宣出來的就是表現了一個這個好像是側翼的行為而且你的書面也回答了就是中選會是違法但是你的沉默卻證明了你也不敢得罪民進黨所以當有這樣一個狀況的時候"},{"start":333.018,"end":339.613,"text":"我們要 你要如何說服我們這些被審 這個審查委員你未來能夠超然獨立的行使你的職權"},{"start":340.697,"end":368.082,"text":"我在2015年的時候我就說我要跟蔡英文劃清界限了這件事情其實報紙都有報導過這次的審查我想你要說服的是這一次被審查的委員他們的想法那另外一點呢就是我們在第一題就有提到的就是有關公投綁大選如何順利的進行那您的回答是說只要把場地租大一點分流做好工作人員增加然後提高行政效率"},{"start":369.022,"end":394.391,"text":"亂象107年的亂象就不會重演這是您這是您回覆的是嗎對那你這樣是不是就在說明了說民進黨這幾年說公投這個107年的公投綁大選選務亂是因為這個因為公投綁大選的關係所以你現在就是在證明說當時民進黨這幾年的說法純粹就是為了政治算計而做這樣子的說謊的一個行為嗎"},{"start":396.021,"end":419.638,"text":"107年確實當初2018年確實公投綁大選的那一天大選日的混亂狀況這個大家都看得出來是因為選務沒有規劃好嘛所以你才會提出來說接下來你就可以把選務怎麼規劃好所以你剛回答是這樣嘛但是那一天確實就是有十個十個公投案那就是因為表示你的人力還不夠嘛你分流沒有做好嘛這是你在回答中"},{"start":419.998,"end":432.975,"text":"可以解決的問題的方式所以說我們這邊是不是也就代表說以前上一次的2018年的公投中選會沒有辦好是因為人的問題是因為人無能而不是因為並大選"},{"start":435.157,"end":458.131,"text":"所以你在回答問題我覺得在2018年確實選務工作做得不完善所以說是因為這樣所以這幾年民進黨一直在講說公投綁大選造成選務的混亂其實不是嘛因為公投綁大選事實上是真正能夠展現民意真正讓每個民眾能夠有機會去表達他自己的意志的時間嘛所以我想您在這個整個回覆中也已經"},{"start":459.353,"end":488.035,"text":"已經這樣子充分的回答了說您針對公投綁大選覺得這個選務的部分其實的亂象不是因為綁大選而是因為行政座有沒有做好嗎是這樣嗎因為其他國家有些國家確實是沒有綁大選那我認為說如果真的要綁大選我們就必須要把選務工作處理做正用更好因為在你問題的一些言論跟立場事實上你是反對公投綁大選的那當然今天我在研究報告是寫我支持欸"},{"start":488.955,"end":505.943,"text":"對 你在你的但是你看喔 你在這個在這個自由時報的這個對 專欄裡面我寫你是這個空頭綁大選只會毀了公投本質喔對在你以前的說法對那我們希望說不要因為今天是未來來擔任副主委所以你就改變你過去的說法到底我們要相信哪個你"},{"start":506.343,"end":524.84,"text":"是公投同意公投綁大選的你還是反對公投綁大選委員因為我們現在法條已經改了我們未來就是要因應一件事情就是要綁大選我們要預防的一件事情就是2018年的那個狀況出現希望您不要是因為為了要擔任這個副主委這個職務而去出賣您原來的一個這個"},{"start":525.886,"end":535.874,"text":"自己的一個學術的一個良知還是希望您能夠如果未來您有幸能夠擔任副主委的話一定要秉持公正超然獨立的立場來行使職權謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}