{"error":false,"id":["167306"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167306,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167306","日期":"2026-01-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-29T09:27:48+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-29T09:40:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88fae411af6ac7b95752fd623850d83d5bba72e0f898bedb446a72962f41d473255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:27:48 - 09:40:01","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.06471875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.87409375,"end":6.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.333468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.68721875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.00221875,"end":22.356593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.17096875,"end":23.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.094718750000002,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.33909375,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.45284375000001,"end":74.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.13346875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.82909375,"end":92.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.42221875,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.95346875,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.27346875,"end":95.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.71284375,"end":148.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.19346875000002,"end":158.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.65596875,"end":177.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.67284375,"end":158.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.25409375,"end":165.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.40971875000002,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.38784375,"end":173.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.80909375000002,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.99471875,"end":185.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.01159375,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.27284375000002,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.83346875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.47034375,"end":187.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.86659375000002,"end":205.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.78784375,"end":206.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.00721875000002,"end":222.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.94659375,"end":216.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.37596875000003,"end":222.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.51096875000002,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.23909375000002,"end":274.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.46096875,"end":276.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.89096875,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.47284375000004,"end":277.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.87221875,"end":289.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.33596875,"end":290.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.42846875000004,"end":297.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.29721875,"end":294.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.89596875,"end":296.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.91284375000004,"end":296.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.92971875,"end":297.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.77346875,"end":308.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.45159375000003,"end":306.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.34596875,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.75909375000003,"end":308.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.77596875,"end":309.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.01221875000005,"end":312.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.04971875,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.70346875,"end":326.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.92659375,"end":317.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.90909375,"end":320.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.92596875000004,"end":320.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.95971875000004,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.97659375,"end":321.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.52846875,"end":326.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.64659375,"end":368.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.47096875,"end":343.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.88471875000005,"end":369.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.12096875000003,"end":374.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.87534375,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.02721875000003,"end":376.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.52909375,"end":377.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.98471875,"end":412.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.12346875000003,"end":380.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.92909375000005,"end":382.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.20346875,"end":408.43971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.60784375000003,"end":413.01284375},{"speaker":"SPE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有請部長請時部長"},{"start":12.163,"end":30.047,"text":"陳委員早好 副長謝謝你們這個國民年改的那個接受民眾黨黨團建議的第15跟50項的修改 謝謝那最近澄清醫院也發生了急診暴力那有酒醉的這個民眾他把護理師打到腦震盪所以造成很多民眾跟這個醫療人員他們都非常的憤怒"},{"start":30.587,"end":53.007,"text":"有人提出這樣的主張說在醫院施暴或毆打醫護人員應該要停用健保卡一年全額自費但是部長我知道全面停卡會涉及憲法上的一個健康權跟比例原則但是我還是要請教衛福部在不能停卡的一個前提下有沒有辦法讓施暴者付出實質代價的一個制度上的設計呢"},{"start":54.762,"end":81.042,"text":"跟委員報告我想對於不管在任何場域任何的情境之下那麼我們對於這個暴力行為一定是嚴厲的譴責啦那特別是在醫療這種救人的場域更不應該那麼過去呢這個在103年 不好意思請教部長你有在做一些制度上的設計嗎制度上我們有很多的措施啦那麼剛剛提到的這個"},{"start":83.104,"end":92.415,"text":"這個用健保的方式因為健保畢竟它是以這個保障這個生命的安全做最重要的基本再請問下面幾個問題就是您一併考慮就是說醫護人員是否有據診"},{"start":97.661,"end":117.999,"text":"就是說拒絕診療或終止就暫停這個醫療的空間施暴者除了刑責他本身就要負刑責那是否有健保給付上的一個譬如說加重負擔是否研議對特定惡意的行為人設計部分負擔的加成或指定就醫流程等等這個配套有沒有往這個方向去思考呢"},{"start":119.12,"end":148.197,"text":"我想我們有在這個擬定一些相關的指引那麼所有在醫療過程當中還是以安全最重要所以這個剛剛說到的據診那麼不是很下當但是呢保護自身醫護人員自身的安全還是應該優先考慮如果有這種這個暴力甚至危害到安全的情況應該先處理安全的情形那麼自身的保護還是最重要的"},{"start":148.577,"end":176.534,"text":"對 當然我這張投屏的標題說能不能註記當然我也覺得註記是當然這個也要考慮然後指定就醫流程其實有點像開黃燈就是說我們知道他就是有可能有暴力傾向但是在醫學倫理上又不能不照顧部長這個健保署統計去年11月到今天全國UCC每天看診的人數大概只有350人還不及一間急救責任醫院他一日的看診人數"},{"start":178.075,"end":205.317,"text":"甚至有好多天是不到300人那其中台北市很嚴重每個月只有40個人次那台北有三個點那其中兩個點還蠻靠近的那陳署長您也說過說UCCC由健保署來進行方案的規劃那提供經費支持那但是選點是由地方衛生局來做的那當地的衛生局也許是更清楚醫療的量能那但是目前的健保署的資料統計還是顯示整個量能是很不一的"},{"start":206.358,"end":232.311,"text":"陳署長你也說過說開始有設計說4月初預計要針對這些選點再重新做個盤點因為設立之初的時候是尊重各地衛生局他來選擇這個地點但並沒有預設說要多少人數就醫人數所以我下面就請教部長跟署長以目前累積的大概我的所編資料4800的人次的累積使用量請問UCC是否已經達到避免民眾都往急診衝的這個政策目標呢"},{"start":234.432,"end":259.8,"text":"我想這個階段是剛剛如同委員所提的我們初始的階段是搭配這個跟衛生局討論那麼由衛生局去指定這個點那麼一共有六都開始試辦未來可能還會擴大到其他縣市有這個需要的話那六都共選定了13個處所我們可以看到有些處所很成功譬如說在台南的點它的這個"},{"start":260.96,"end":288.911,"text":"這個一天的這個就診量將近200人那也可以看到他他鄰近的像成大醫院集美醫院的急診輕症的人數也有下降像這樣的點還有服務的方式就很成功那但是像台北市像您指教的台北市看起來三個點那麼他相對於台北市的整個就醫的量是大的那麼以這三個點提供到的這個分流的機制確實有限"},{"start":289.511,"end":309.886,"text":"所以我們未來會去檢討我想再提醒一點說雖然說選點是尊重這個地方面具但一個這個是一個全國性的健保政策那如果說完全沒有中央的最低標準沒有使用量的門檻來看的話也沒有退場機制那這樣有點像地方自治有點像中方中央政府就放手不管了有點就是說請"},{"start":311.347,"end":335.208,"text":"我們會跟地方衛生局討論醫療改革基金會也非常重視他們提出一個很關鍵的提醒他不是說制度本身沒有錯而是改變的順序錯了醫改會要指出很多國家UCC的成功是因為比急診快比急診便宜但是在台灣民眾之所以家人還是跑大醫院的急診近六成這是他們的數字近六成是因為不知道哪裡有診所可看病"},{"start":335.908,"end":353.497,"text":"那26%是無法判斷病情的這個嚴重度那健保署常說台灣有推動了20多年的這個加一群計畫應該能夠在基層為民眾的健康把關但是醫改會也曾經用神秘客的方式抽樣六都 六都加一群整組的電話諮詢發現這是他們的調查數字96%的人無法回答哪邊可以看門診在假日的時候"},{"start":361.281,"end":374.541,"text":"不到25%可以提供任何衛教指導一聽到發燒大概有一半以上都直接接你去大醫院急診那這樣的家喻群真的有能力來重接輕的急症分流的角色嗎這是他們的統計數字"},{"start":377.064,"end":391.956,"text":"所以部長您是第一次聽還是就是讓您參考畢竟他們也做了一些方法學去了解那醫管會有指出UCC成功的關鍵不是只有設點而是事前能不能有人幫民眾做判斷那醫管會執行長林執行長也說"},{"start":393.977,"end":419.327,"text":"世界各國都知道一般人是很難為自己做疾病的嚴重度判斷所以正在民眾立場來看設計配套提供各式各樣的諮詢的一個引導是很重要我們台灣的UCC其實是仿效日本可是部長您知道這件事嗎日本的UCC有它明確的修制條件而且很重要的它非常重視事前的諮詢所以它有不同年齡群都各有諮詢專線這樣可以免跑一趟就是說"},{"start":423.128,"end":439.297,"text":"就避免白跑一趟嘛會不會到將來有打算要規劃類似的一個諮詢系統嗎跟文說明第一個對那個加一計畫裡面確實我們有call center的設計這個我們都有一些這個經費的支持那"},{"start":440.137,"end":467.889,"text":"能不能夠提高他的這個功能讓他因為這個都是老病人我們現在納入加一計畫大概已經超過600萬人600萬人如果能夠把這個機制強化我覺得這個是有幫忙這個我們會來檢討那第二個呢就是對民眾的就醫的指引的建立我們也會去建立起來未來會上線那至於說這個看診的資訊像我們今年的春節期間我們就會有一個專區"},{"start":469.13,"end":475.194,"text":"看診的資訊這九天哪裡可以看讓他很好搜尋那麼未來我們也會去強化在假日期間他可以看診所以我們會去鼓勵這個基層開診哪裡可以看我們會再多監導那我們現在就回到UCC的"},{"start":486.621,"end":503.048,"text":"你的定位究竟是在民眾自行判斷後前往的一個選項呢還是應該建立在專業判斷跟轉介系統之後的服務這是看你覺得如果沒有前端的判斷跟指引那UCC再多設幾個點都不會改變民眾直接跑急診這種行為所以這個台北市醫師職業工會有提出幾項建議那請部長跟署理這邊參考"},{"start":510.191,"end":514.754,"text":"對於現存UCC的應該設置的預期達成目標值如果你經過嘗試還是沒有辦法達成的話應該即時退場止損或是另外尋求其他的這個長指這是他們第一點的建議第二個政府應該考慮設置這個院前的諮詢管道讓民眾可以透過線上或是說電話諮詢剛剛部長有提到是在平台上嗎"},{"start":533.244,"end":549.439,"text":"至少他的問題可能適合你可能適合在UCC獲得結束因此不必直接往這個急診去你要讓他知道嘛讓他放心那第三個如果UCC是政府這個應變災難及重大傷患的一個任性醫療的一環假設你把他列在這樣的一環那應該考慮將來是不是把他列入這個人員都要接受定期的訓練"},{"start":554.423,"end":570.929,"text":"之列並且以社區急救站這樣的概念的標準來打造就是涉及你對UCC的這個定位那我們必須再談一件事就是說那個希望政府能夠正視UCC跟醫院急診之間的巨大資源的鴻溝部長您知道我這句話的意思嗎"},{"start":572.189,"end":588.878,"text":"現在我看署長在點頭這三倍以上的經費差異可以看作說是醫院醫護醫療人員醫護人員勞動力受到高度的壓榨為什麼是說三倍你知道UCC所規範的薪資一天光是人事費大概是12萬元那全國13座你講的是大概156萬元那我們扣掉民眾有部分負擔的部分大概也要支出150萬可是這些人如果一天350人他都往急診去的時候醫學中心急診室"},{"start":598.923,"end":610.857,"text":"健保只支出30到50萬就是這一塊是150萬但是如果他們都往急診區他是50萬所以這個醫院的醫療人員他們就覺得他們事實上是在過去勞動力受到壓榨的程度就從你做參考"},{"start":614.581,"end":639.466,"text":"所以部長就是涉及您對UCC的定位還有目前能夠做改進定位之後當然就有目標還有大家提供的意見如果你要繼續讓它存在然後也有清楚的定位目標是應該讓民眾有能夠有一個指引不然大家還是繼續往那邊衝因為現在平均的量比一家醫院的一天的量都還不足"},{"start":640.787,"end":659.968,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛提到的有一個UCC的點一次假日可以進200人次這個已經高過有一些地區醫院的量所以他看你怎麼去宣導跟設計啦至於剛剛你一直在強調的這個院前諮詢管道這我們會去思考"},{"start":661.35,"end":678.5,"text":"這個我們會有一些就醫指引那甚至未來搭配AI的方式我們像現在健保也開始克服第一線是AI克服然後後線才是真人克服那這樣的設計也許搭配我們的指引未來的這個就醫指引再搭配AI的協助"},{"start":680.221,"end":699.359,"text":"可以一起來思考那麼這個所謂的院前這個諮詢的管道那至於UCC的定位那麼我剛剛提到我們一直在強調這個分級醫療可是在假日的時候或連續假日的時候很明顯的因為這個基層的醫師要休息這個是"},{"start":701.06,"end":722.3,"text":"這個有必要的所以呢讓假日的時候不會說我們平常分級醫療假日不分級醫療通通到醫院去所以UCC是要扮演這樣的角色至於到目前的績效來講確實有需要再提升的地方我們會滾動式的來修正謝謝部長跟署長因為這是美意啦我們就是要繼續進步然後這個進行盤整了解民眾的需要好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":728.232,"end":731.103,"text":"謝謝陳昭芝委員發言接下來請林月琴委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}