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這三次已經討論過一次了我們再一次今天無論如何也把他送出去了因為不要影響到這個相關的一個議程部長你不能講一下你三次討論過了連兩次了你有沒有你最後的堅持還是說最後的你希望是什麼判斷這樣"},{"start":2034.051,"end":2042.746,"text":"謝謝趙委還有各位委員大家找我們當然希望是按照院版的版本是不是請各位委員能夠支持"},{"start":2051.656,"end":2066.594,"text":"謝謝主席這個原本就是說是到156年然後再給你們行政授權再延長一次兩年違憲是不是那我的提案是說"},{"start":2068.837,"end":2088.052,"text":"就直接是到188年其實是最後的結果有可能會是一樣的我在想啦因為我覺得你不可能說你到了這一個116年的時候你就覺得說這個效果不好或者說已經沒有需要再這個減稅了然後呢 所以你就不做了"},{"start":2088.752,"end":2099.125,"text":"那我是覺得說那既然最後的結果有可能是一樣的話那我覺得就直接延長到118年12月31號就好啦"},{"start":2100.795,"end":2120.694,"text":"而且你這個是實際的狀況實際推轉的情況這個其實是蠻抽象的啦什麼叫做實際推轉的情況這個其實就變成說不明確的一個概念性那另外我本來還有提一個啦這個是關於這一個我看看喔15的啦"},{"start":2124.724,"end":2138.617,"text":"沒有 我們現在只有討論十一之一好 那就先講這一條好了先講這一條這條比較急來 我們周委員有沒有意見當然有 委員是張先生 張委員嗎不然你講你講周委員先講來"},{"start":2144.11,"end":2160.462,"text":"就只限在11條之一好不好因為11條好謝謝主席署長各位委員大家好我們認為就是針對經濟部這個有關於節能加電比如說電冰箱冷氣機主持機等等過去以來這樣子的政策"},{"start":2161.283,"end":2172.953,"text":"其實讓很多的這個消費者可以享受到這個節能家電的一些優惠所以我們當然是希望說在這114年6月15號要截止希望可以延長到116年的12月31號那麼也樂見財政部說"},{"start":2177.476,"end":2178.096,"text":"好 最後一題"},{"start":2202.708,"end":2227.524,"text":"好 謝謝張委的安排我們看到今天要討論的十一條之一呢有清楚的 謝謝整理出一個非常清楚的表我剛剛聆聽了昆城委員他是落在一二三四五六 第六第六欄 如果第一欄是行政院的話那他是在第七欄那張志倫委員呢是在第四欄那我是在第"},{"start":2228.604,"end":2250.595,"text":"三藍那看起來呢行政院的提案會是落在張委員跟李委員之間張委員是直接到116年的年底那麼李委員的是到118年的年底那行政院的是取兩者之間先是到116年年底那事情況可以到118年年底"},{"start":2251.328,"end":2269.057,"text":"那因為我的條件都比上面三個案都還嚴格不過聽起來我可以支持行政院版的提案就是到116年年底那必要時延長到118年年底那這樣子剛好介乎張委員跟李委員的提案之前 以上好我們請黃珊珊委員請就位"},{"start":2270.629,"end":2292.846,"text":"好 謝謝家瑋 我想台灣民眾黨也有一個貨物稅的版本那主要是耗電 高耗電的部分我們同意延長那第二個部分比較特別可能也是各黨團體有提到的就是有關已經不合時宜而且可能也納課不到稅的一些小家電比如錄影機這種根本就不可能再有的東西或者是說"},{"start":2293.627,"end":2317.837,"text":"他在跟其他的同樣3C產品上面的有所謂的課稅上面的差距我們認為直接應該廢除啦所以就是說延長的部分高耗能我們同意但是我們希望能夠增加廢除部分我們已經不合時宜甚至已經課不到什麼稅的這些小家電那這個部分的那個條文麻煩請大家參酌我們也希望大家能夠支持民眾黨辦謝謝"},{"start":2321.138,"end":2345.578,"text":"我現在這兩個 一個是同意他延長 第二個希望廢除第二個廢除的部分就是電唱機 電視機 音響組合 錄音機 錄音機 電烤箱你看現在錄音機 錄音機幾乎已經沒有了那電視機他現在跟所謂的液晶顯示器 液晶顯示器完全不用克水那電視機的部分要克水 這是一個很不公平的狀況"},{"start":2346.519,"end":2369.477,"text":"那這些相關的設備其實都已經是人民生活的必需並不是所謂的奢侈用品那它本身目前也不列為所謂的耗電高耗電的商品所以我認為說我們黨團的立場我們會蠻堅持說是不是應該要先廢除另外就是節能家電的部分我們希望延長到2030這部分那個部長要不要講一下有沒有在這條裡面"},{"start":2371.798,"end":2383.904,"text":"是我先就民眾黨團的建議那個是在第11條並沒有院版裡面沒有提那第11條的所規定的是電器類的課稅項目及稅率所以還有羅列9款課稅項目那這個部分呢我們是建議是這一次我們並沒有納入修正而未來貨物稅條例裡面有關相關要課稅項目的部分我們也準備要委託"},{"start":2399.392,"end":2404.237,"text":"委外來做一個研究看是不是要就整個貨物稅條例來做一次檢視我想這個部分是不是未來再來做討論那至於第十一條之一剛剛各委員所提的一個建議版本第一個謝謝各委員都支持有關耗能的一個家電"},{"start":2415.827,"end":2420.148,"text":"能夠鼓勵民眾去買節能家電然後給予貨物稅的退還那就是其一點在於延長的期間那有委員建議到116年的12月底那也有委員建議直接延長到118年的12月底"},{"start":2433.172,"end":2444.216,"text":"那這個部分院版為什麼會建議的條文是到16年的12月底然後必要時由行政院再來延長兩年主要是因為節能家電這樣的一個我們現在的條文是所謂的一級跟二級那未來我們這個電器設備因為隨著科技的進步它的節能的"},{"start":2455.279,"end":2472.723,"text":"未來的標章會不會只是所謂的一級二級會有更先進的一個方式我們會認為說也許這個科技的進步以及家電用品它是屬於消費型的也許進步的會更快使用的年限也會短那所以我們是不是認為說到兩年的時候我們如果有更新的"},{"start":2473.423,"end":2496.141,"text":"節能家電出來而它又不是所謂一級二級的話那到那個時候我們應該更鼓勵消費者去買更高的一個節能效能的一個家電所以我們認為到先到1160的12月底然後到那個時候我們再檢討如果有更高效能的出來的話應該更鼓勵往那邊去那這個時候我們的內容也許可以做一些修正然後再"},{"start":2496.701,"end":2513.308,"text":"如果沒有變的話 照你這樣講就贏兩年就好了啊兩年以後再來就好 對啊 如果這樣就贏兩年了但是如果沒有變的話 那就可以由行政授權不可以行政授權這麼長的啦 哪有這樣子的 租稅法定主義 這個稅法絕對是定名定的啦你要傲驕傲 我絕對反對 我給你事都可以"},{"start":2522.518,"end":2550.847,"text":"我一會去給你試給試的話那如果在這個當中有一個更進步的你再提啊 你再提啊再提方案就好啦要修啊 再來修啊為什麼你要有一個行政授權給你兩年呢那你就這樣子 不可以的啦行政授權的話行政授權的話是在於就是說沒有行政授權給你可以減稅 行政授權呢沒有 那其他的條文也是有我們大概檢視在第九條之一"},{"start":2553.709,"end":2566.294,"text":"同樣是貨物稅條例裡面在9條之1跟12條之3也都有相關就是說行政院得釋實際情形延長免徵稅的行政院不能用行政院自己來決定沒有這回事了來我們要公開問問 還沒講完來請"},{"start":2579.692,"end":2595.765,"text":"謝謝主席我剛剛聽部長的說法分兩階段有授權的兩年半的條款的調整我記得行政院原來版本是直接延長四年半到一億八年年底"},{"start":2596.425,"end":2617.38,"text":"然後後來分階段是因為品項的關係嘛如果更節能的這個項目來做一個彈性調整那我要第一個要問的問題是說所以原則上所謂的這個第二階段還是會執行到這個1180年底嘛只是差別品項而已嘛 是不是應該是 還是嘛那現在就是說呢"},{"start":2618.755,"end":2633.294,"text":"你有沒有去看過過去它的產品週期當中那幾年當中有類似你說的新的更加節能的這個產品的出現才會有你這個條文存在的理由我是覺得我要問的是第一點是這個就是說"},{"start":2633.755,"end":2652.29,"text":"你之所以會用兩年兩年半的條款來做分階段的授權那你因為有擔你會希望說將來如果有更加節能的你可能會品相做一個調整嘛那你要跟我們講說那之前是不是這兩年或兩年半的週期當中有更加節能的這個項目你們有遺珠之憾的"},{"start":2653.13,"end":2682.436,"text":"所以說你們才有這個條款的設立嘛 對不對你要一個事實依據嘛那否則的話以授權條款來說 老實講以前也都有存在嘛就條文內容也都存在嘛所以我要問的是說你為什麼要特別增設這個授權條款這是第一個第二個你剛剛回答黃珊珊委員的一個問題其實是我們委員會一直長期來關心有關於獲出稅哪些項目要減免這從我們第一次來到財政委員會到現在已經搞了不知道幾年了五六年 不知道也問了幾次 不知道幾個委員問了那次數加起來不知道多少了"},{"start":2682.856,"end":2699.848,"text":"你現在告訴我們說你要做一個研究報告,你們以前沒有研究報告過嗎?沒有嗎?對啊,我才不相信你們以前沒有研究報告,而且研究報告老師說很多東西大家已經成為眾所皆知,接近於嘗試的階段,你們還要委外給學者來做研究。"},{"start":2701.73,"end":2725.181,"text":"是拖延還是不願面對還是真的有基本的立場的存在或者有保持可能性的修法你要講清楚啊你不要隨便講一個說我以後接下來要做研究那研究哪些項目那哪些項目是必要的研究項目那些項目有可能會做修改你才來做研究嘛不然你不要一句話跟我們講說接下來再來做研究這根本要呼嚨整個委員會嘛我看法輪候 黃委員你有沒有認同"},{"start":2726.786,"end":2731.152,"text":"好 我們郭偉文講完就先請黃偉先講然後再來信聖部門好 我同意焦偉說的"},{"start":2736.262,"end":2762.709,"text":"稅制還是要法定主義所以還是應該很明確如果是就是不是就不是如果你要來的話兩年後再來不是行政授權當然你說之前有但是我覺得貨物稅這個真的就像郭工委員講的已經質詢太多次每個委員都講了一遍而且過去財政部的行政院的覆改會也多次建議要檢討貨物稅條例而且要整併綠色稅制還有健康稅就碳稅跟糖稅"},{"start":2763.889,"end":2787.117,"text":"這些都已經講了N年了所以現在已經不是再找個藉口說要再拖這些小家電請問現在有誰在買錄音機啊手機就可以錄了然後電唱機音響組合這是人民基本生活需求而已那電烤箱還要電烤箱要另外課稅我實在是不太懂那麼多的家電包括尤其是電視機最不公平"},{"start":2788.137,"end":2805.027,"text":"電視機要課貨物稅液晶顯示器不用現在哪個家庭你家裡的電視機是電視機它大部分都是液晶顯示器可以上網的只要能上網的就叫它3C這個國家不去面對科技的進步而是直接想說我不要把這個稅拿掉那整個貨物稅"},{"start":2806.789,"end":2831.492,"text":"到現在金額電氣類徵收是71億那這取消的話大概是10億左右其實這些真的課徵的必要性是不是真的很高我是覺得真的可以廢了第二個就是你以前的綠色稅是健康稅都不檢討到今天還在講說要去委外我是覺得真的不需要了我們直接把它廢掉他們就不用再研究了好那就請那個署長"},{"start":2834.352,"end":2859.538,"text":"跟委員稍微報告一下其實以前我們電器的節能加電的減增退還減增的貨物稅一般都是兩年那每次又兩年到了那又再修法再延兩年這樣以前都是兩年到期再修法再延那因為委員就會講到說因為這樣好像一直修法延期好像感覺有一點立法上比較複雜"},{"start":2860.598,"end":2884.646,"text":"所以我們這次經濟部跟我們會同研商的結果就是說因為究竟電氣類這個節能效率尤其我國現在又實施碳費明年要報今年的碳費了然後有很多節能減碳的政策會改變必須與時俱進電氣類它本身它是消費性產品它周期很短所以它的革新會更快"},{"start":2885.206,"end":2909.633,"text":"所以我們才會建議說又兼顧了每兩年都要修法一次好像感覺上好像對立法院也是一種困擾所以我們這一次才改變的方法是說也是金融並報就說好那我就延到116年底然後再由立法授權是經過立法授權甚至吳秉瑞也有提到這叫立法院同意我行政院有權實施的狀況"},{"start":2911.613,"end":2926.364,"text":"那所謂實施狀況就是包含譬如有沒有新的產品出來類似這樣好 這個因為我們等一下這個會我們下一個要開另外一個會好不好所以最後一個我都做結論了好不好結論之後我請大家表達意見我跟昭緯做個建議結論就是採取張志倫委員的提案"},{"start":2933.61,"end":2945.177,"text":"因為為什麼會說就延兩年因為剛剛立法行政機關的說明是說貨物稅的調整基本上都是為了優惠延長而要求立法院來做修改"},{"start":2946.26,"end":2966.983,"text":"那立法院好像感覺上呢 不想動一次來就兩年 一次兩年好煩喔 乾脆一次給你四年但是聽起來大部分的委員各黨團意思不是這樣子啊是覺得貨物稅要做根本性的檢討啊剛剛黃珊珊委員就說的嘛要根本性的檢討嘛 電氣類 油氣類 非油氣類要做個根本性的檢討所以不是立法"},{"start":2968.725,"end":2991.423,"text":"機關想要輕鬆給你們比較長的授權或者給你們2加2讓你們自己看著辦而是希望行政機關積極的提出對貨物稅的根本檢討所以 稍微我這邊建議聽起來就是給兩年那如果你們本來想是情況要延長那下次就沒有提延長這樣的一個單一目的了整套的檢討拿出來如果還要延長的話 整套檢討拿出來"},{"start":2992.003,"end":3018.458,"text":"那如果要延長是經濟部這邊會有壓力那財政部呢是不想要動聽起來就像只要提到減稅財政部就不想但是經濟部呢對優惠延長是有需求因為產業發展那既然這樣我們透過經濟部要延長產業需求的動機來要求財政部做整個貨物稅的檢討那我是建議給兩年沒有再多兩年的一個立法上的授權那到時候兩年出來你們把貨物稅檢討一時拿出來由我們本院來審查"},{"start":3019.558,"end":3046.704,"text":"最後一位因為黃委員還是有一點意見我們就不再發言了好不好我才是強調如果還要再等他檢討不如真的這次就直接幫他廢了因為這個東西不是特殊的這已經討論很多年了那這些相關的電唱機電視機音響組合其實都是人民生活必需品它已經不是單純的消費品它以前是把它當成奧奢侈品"},{"start":3047.344,"end":3070.426,"text":"那因為耗能但這些東西都已經我是認為說與其再叫他們再去檢討兩年後再來又跟今天一樣啦這些都已經幾年前都講過了所以我是我們黨團的意思是這一次就直接把這些項目先廢掉另外節能家電給他兩年甚至我們同意給他到2030都可以但是該廢的要先廢這樣子好不好我做結論好不好"},{"start":3073.43,"end":3075.133,"text":"這個先請經濟部經濟部長官你們希望兩年的市民"},{"start":3083.84,"end":3105.455,"text":"從產業發展的角度當然是長一點是比較好不過我們還是要按照願板跟財政部的意見沒有 是要按照願板就我們委員大家做決定我建議啦 我建議 我這樣建議喔幾個方案他各位要去哪一個我們就尊重這裡沒有辦法表決的第一個就是兩個人"},{"start":3107.335,"end":3126.318,"text":"沒有那種什麼兩年授權這東西就是兩年第二個四年就一次給你十年四年一次給你十年經濟部產業發展然後對那個黃委員剛才的我們加一個附帶決議附帶決議對於你剛剛寫的那一些我們是不是叫他"},{"start":3127.455,"end":3141.364,"text":"你看怎麼寫比較好我們負責決議看他脫鍋這樣我們負責決議因為今天沒有討論到十一條你們能不能保留因為這個是黨團的建議黨團蠻堅持的而且這我們已經提案很久了"},{"start":3158.043,"end":3163.454,"text":"飲料類要檢討啊非油氣類的要檢討啊怎麼只有這個電器類的檢討呢我認為電器類的檢討不夠不過電器類是規範11條但是其他非油氣類的"},{"start":3168.666,"end":3176.471,"text":"如果現在全案保留了就全案保留出去我除了擔心他們有時間的問題來不及喔來不及喔"},{"start":3199.106,"end":3223.397,"text":"這個已經是黨團政策很重要的意見黃委員 那個出去朝野協商的時候不一定會比我們現在這裡的協商更有那個效果 是不是如果這樣子 黃委員再因為我是站在一個社會需要的角度就是 兩人是你們在說"},{"start":3224.878,"end":3252.131,"text":"我們先給他說大家有沒有意見可以去讀兩年或者四年然後 你的題目我們馬上審第十一條馬上 下次給你排 下次審第十一條因為其實黃委員民眾黨版本對於兩年四年其實他們沒有特別的意見那我覺得 但是沒有意見就先讓他通過好不好"},{"start":3258.653,"end":3282.53,"text":"我是支持趙偉說我們趕快十一條之一以外的趕快後續再排馬上排好不好我在這裡承諾就下一次排你案子十一條十一條好不好可不可以這樣子那這個先給他出去這樣因為這十一條所以你到底是兩年還是四年我建議四年我們的版本"},{"start":3284.591,"end":3285.618,"text":"我們的版本是到2030嘛"},{"start":3287.928,"end":3309.022,"text":"我們給的更長因為他們要二就要二嘛我覺得一次就給四年啦那你後面的貨物稅要排嗎 什麼時候排就現在兩週後排啊兩週後排排十一條十一條 十一條 十一條還有幾條的 我不知道只有幾條我們一併啦 一併討論啦 好不好十一條以及相關的條文啦"},{"start":3319.582,"end":3332.939,"text":"主席聽起來是時間上的壓力,兩年讓他先過再附帶決議啦主席不能再,但是我們重提就好了啦不能再我們重提啦"},{"start":3334.864,"end":3350.607,"text":"如果按照這樣的話 我們黨團應該是會比較支持四年啦四年好不好 四年齁可是現在那個黃委員現在有個問題是 你的十一條是跟十一條之一放一起沒有單獨一個案子"},{"start":3353.672,"end":3375.738,"text":"同題能不能夠 趕快同題同題要去 院會你下禮拜 我們不要黨了下禮拜二就進程序下禮拜五一讀然後大家不呼籲大家不呼籲下禮拜五就排了好不好這個各黨團都要玩 都要同意大家簽字 大家簽字可以嗎"},{"start":3376.96,"end":3403.768,"text":"我再講一遍喔 我的結論我全部打下 寫在寫商結論裡面寫商結論 第一個四年一次到 第一個這個是送出去了齁我建議四年半啦四年半 四年半 四年半 四年半到118的年底了齁 第一條第二條 請這個民眾黨團你就趕快提案 去連署幹什麼 就快蓋章"},{"start":3405.157,"end":3413.577,"text":"下個禮拜二 程旭下個禮拜五 金淵威通過 我們就 我就排大家不呼籲 大家不呼籲"},{"start":3419.349,"end":3427.713,"text":"今天會整案 整個案子 協商的案子還有11 12-5 12-6 37要維持現行條例對 就是等一下他要讀就是包括11-1之外還有讀11 12-5 12-6"},{"start":3448.522,"end":3470.94,"text":"三十七這個現在控補三十七這他們要讀讀了就維持維持現行條例維持現行條例然後就是請民進黨下禮拜要記得送程序好不好下禮拜我派不是只有我們嗎別的委員還有十一條的版本所以十一條的版本全部都被丟包了嗎今天還是大家都要下禮拜提"},{"start":3479.117,"end":3495.906,"text":"所以那其他人還有很多包啊委員會還有一包在委員會裡面這一包出去另外還有一包在委員會裡面那我的已經不見啦沒有 你可以用修正動議進來不要啦 這黨團提案跟修正動議那個不行啦 我們有黨團版本所以我們要再審黨團版本"},{"start":3498.866,"end":3526.662,"text":"現在還有一包啦下下禮拜還有一包下下禮拜還有一包好不好那我們就提新啊不複議你們就要提啦你們就要提一下麻煩寫在協商結論裡好嗎請黨團不要複議就完成我再講一遍今天本台宣讀完畢以後我們就按照這樣通過就是11.41一次元4年半延到11.18年的底"},{"start":3528.312,"end":3539.259,"text":"12月31號就第一個結論第二個結論行政院的 行政院條文的第四項不予修正嗎就沒有了嘛 我們結論這個 不可能然後第11條第12條之5第12條之6第37條等一下宣讀要不要宣讀"},{"start":3551.014,"end":3578.332,"text":"兒子現行條文 那就不用讀啦不要讀了 不要讀了 好不好那第三點就請這個民眾黨團在下禮拜二這個就送進慈禧委員會禮拜五進委員會大家不複一下下禮拜五排十一條跟相關的條文就這樣子 好不好已經相關條文了 有綱領 好不好綱領就這樣好啦請大家簽字喔 先不要走喔"},{"start":3581.701,"end":3587.184,"text":"其實能源署這邊對這個條文的是非常支持因為對這個不管是產業發展 節能減碳都有正面的功效特別是我們現在在做家電補助"},{"start":3609.195,"end":3616.22,"text":"加點補助再加這個兩千誘因就會更大那至於是延長兩年跟四年我們尊重大院的一個決議以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":3633.473,"end":3648.883,"text":"所以意思就是說申請期已經結束了可是還是繼續會補貼那這個還會再延長嗎?原則上應該會是在115年合併會延到115年合併對 有新集成的機會已經開始了114開始了它這個是修法還是它是自動"},{"start":3649.803,"end":3668.36,"text":"沒有那是行政院給專款然後我們有一個補助的要領那是用補助要領不是條例的要申請再跟我們講一下也是兩千塊三千一台都是三千不管大小三千加兩三是害舊換舊害舊換新舊是要多久"},{"start":3669.101,"end":3669.121,"text":"謝謝韋恩 謝謝"},{"start":3694.837,"end":3707.643,"text":"因為他今天來我們才是願意整潭的大家一起到處照顧我們今天來的老人家我們會一直拉著他們的腰包但是我們還是可以經過我們我們來訪問他們的家庭做過的事情我們就這樣子"},{"start":3716.09,"end":3719.933,"text":"不是只有能源,不是只有碳"},{"start":3739.639,"end":3750.123,"text":"對玻璃很燙 輪胎很燙就存在 汽車很燙有機類很燙 電梯類很燙水瓶類很燙飲料那邊很燙 重大型那邊就很燙我已經接受了對不對"},{"start":3763.817,"end":3765.559,"text":"我們決定呢不要說兩個星期後又來說現在會怎麼樣"},{"start":3782.897,"end":3783.417,"text":"我要簽名"},{"start":3803.329,"end":3803.349,"text":"國產化"},{"start":3842.742,"end":3843.683,"text":"本來是通知他們10點來"},{"start":3856.536,"end":3866.322,"text":"阿這個是想要結論 都簽好了 因為他是照行政院版修正的照行政院版 行政院版不知道116 阿修正阿修正 對對對這個都簽好了 可以拍一張嗎可以可以謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":3883.277,"end":3884.078,"text":"所以我們都會講說"},{"start":3915.372,"end":3925.619,"text":"美国在这个时候,那次到我以后大概还是这样,那是把我给收回来,把我给收回来,都走了,大家不失联以后才会来。"},{"start":3934.964,"end":3939.708,"text":"不好意思那下次我們講清楚了解 了解 了解好好好 不好意思"},{"start":3961.705,"end":3964.629,"text":"這個是公報 公報是公報 公報是公報"},{"start":4014.032,"end":4016.336,"text":"喔 你們沒拿到喔剛簽名的時候"},{"start":4032.955,"end":4033.117,"text":"小柯"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}