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辛苦我想今天聽了院長針對台美關稅這樣的一個專報聽到了很多讓民眾安心的地方但是其實有一些對產業的一個衝擊本席在這個地方也不得不提出憂慮也就是說從這一次我們看到2025年"},{"start":59.092,"end":73.04,"text":"4月3號川普宣布32%的一個對等關稅然後呢我們政府開始去做一個因應到了去年的2025年8月1號談出一個暫時性的一個稅率28加MFN"},{"start":75.953,"end":98.654,"text":"那到了2026年都到今年就是其實是幾天前2月13號我們談出了一個國人跟我們行政團隊啊拍手叫好2月13號這個簽署的一個ART的一個協定15%不疊加可是呢這個2月20號啊美國最高法院就裁定啊這個"},{"start":101.035,"end":126.405,"text":"引用的法源有問題啊那所以又認為他是違憲或者是違法那在2月24號呢川普用引用的這個貿易法一二二條款那又變成15%又疊加MFN最後一個待遇所以我在這個地方要請教就是說我們這一次的談判裡面我請教副院長你認為"},{"start":128.726,"end":156.552,"text":"取得最重大的一個勝利行政團隊你們覺得自豪的地方是哪一點報告委員台美歷經十個月兩個階段的談判我國跟美國是對等關稅及232條款並談我們分別簽署了ART對等貿易協定跟投資MOU取得在逆差國中對等關稅最佳的待遇15%不疊加"},{"start":157.731,"end":170.862,"text":"以及232條款下最惠國待遇我想這是雙重的一個最佳待遇所以這個談判結果我想對於不論我們是傳統產業農業以及高科技產業"},{"start":172.311,"end":191.393,"text":"過去在10個月前以及10個月內造成衝擊已經大幅減緩甚至未來我們將由副轉正來提升我國在國際上的競爭力我想這是我們的一個談判結果那委員所關心的有關美國高院的判決那我想美國政府已經說得很清楚232條款"},{"start":193.094,"end":214.729,"text":"是不受影響的所以我們取得的232的多項的關稅優惠是不受影響的那至於在對等關稅所簽署的ART的部分那美國政府也已經宣布了未來他們的關稅政策方向不變但是判決失效的IEPA的法律工具美國將會有替代性的法律途徑的安排"},{"start":215.356,"end":243.229,"text":"那階段性的是122條款目前行政命令公布的是10%加MFN那當然川普總統他有說可能會提高到15%那目前我們還在關注中他要怎麼提高那至於122是一個過渡性的階段性安排未來其實USTR美國貿易代表組格瑞爾大使已經說了他可能會啟動301條款或其他的法律途徑來重建原來對等關稅的法律途徑"},{"start":244.149,"end":267.488,"text":"來反映出前階段的一個談判的結果所以我想我方政府的目標非常清楚就過去已經爭取到最佳待遇未來在美方過渡性的措施以及後續法律基礎的一個重整的過程當中我方持續努力溝通來確保我們已經取得具相對優勢的最佳待遇"},{"start":267.748,"end":287.665,"text":"我們有信心達成這個目標來維繫我們產業已經取得的在國際競爭上的相對優勢那我們已經跟美方取得聯繫我們會密切保持聯繫跟溝通我們期待的不是只有行政團隊有信心我們期待的是行政團隊談判完以後這一些具體的"},{"start":288.971,"end":302.94,"text":"談判結果可以去做一個落實我為什麼這樣講呢你像譬如說成儒副院長你所講的有百分之七十六八裡面涉及到232的部分你們簽訂了MOU這部分這間安全過關這個整體來看為什麼國人會認為該給你們掌聲的地方"},{"start":310.578,"end":335.985,"text":"高科技 你說半導體也好AI也好 伺服器也好那這一些是台灣的一個強項整個供應鏈強得不得了 毛利也高這個部分維持原來的那24%這個部分就令人擔心了但最擔心的是在什麼地方你本來好不容易去彈出一個ART你本來是不疊加了這個2月13號簽署了以後15%不疊加MFN"},{"start":340.06,"end":355.093,"text":"那你整個談判的內容裡面啊裡面可是有471項裡面的產品是豁免可是美國現在川普一個行政命令馬上就跟你講說我現在用122你原來那些豁免"},{"start":355.894,"end":380.096,"text":"不見了也就是說整個法條一轉換授權一轉換以後我們原來那一些可以得到過免的地方本來是可以領的美國政府跟你說我現在全部都收回那這一些衝擊啊如果站在一個理性的國民來看整體的談判成功 給掌聲可是如果站在整個農業來看的話"},{"start":383.326,"end":404.634,"text":"我看了實在有點心驚膽跳啦我是一個農家子弟啊 問淨產啊農民很辛苦我都非常清楚啦譬如說這一次美國這個叫做對等關稅在本席看來這哪是對等關稅這個全部都是在懲罰全世界啊台灣身為美國的第四大的一個順差的一個貿易國"},{"start":405.936,"end":431.836,"text":"我們賺太多嘛所以呢川普也因為說全世界賺太多全部隆重給你課懲罰關稅講的叫做對等關稅那可是那個單方面課以後很大的一個麻煩就是台灣的出口的強項是工業工業賺順差台灣的並非強項的農業我們就必須要去扛關稅要扛關稅我來請教我們的"},{"start":436.186,"end":440.908,"text":"農業部長好了 農業部長我們一年對美國農產品的出口多少跟委員報告 出口的部分是37億37億才38億沒有 那是應該是8.9億 對不起8.9億 應該是進口進口是36.9億進口37億 出口8.9億我們出口那8億多少 比較高一點"},{"start":462.308,"end":467.512,"text":"但靜靠三十倍贏了農業來講的話整體來看我們是逆差"},{"start":469.485,"end":489.69,"text":"只是我們衰咧我們不去美國賣酒 我們自己賺很多我們今天被懲罰的部分是因為我們享受了很多貿易的順差所以川普針對這一些美國針對這一些貿易順差的國家他就要給你懲罰這個就對等關稅 我懲罰你可是針對農業來講的話這次的一個談判結果我是開心不起來啦整體來看對整個國家那當然我們的影響會不大"},{"start":498.972,"end":527.16,"text":"跟其他國家來做比較的話,我們算不錯可是農業來講我出口比較不高盈我進口比較不三十八盈好了,這個關稅我變成我農業來中槍我來舉例就好了啦你本來蝴蝶蘭的部分美國市場你占四成以上啦它現在15%15%你的利潤全部都歧視掉了那你競爭對手你看荷蘭就是我們最大的競爭對手嘛"},{"start":528.8,"end":544.432,"text":"泰式15%是 但問題是荷蘭跟我們模式不一樣我們是要海運我們要運輸啊再加15%荷蘭 我跟你一樣都15%但是荷蘭它是怎麼樣它蝴蝶蘭是怎麼樣我直接在美國那個地方設廠啊"},{"start":545.949,"end":574.809,"text":"我們臺灣也在美國社長 我跟委員報告我們要比高的市場 我們現在臨時性的一二條款10%或以後的15%我們跟荷蘭的立足點是一樣的那現在我們在美國的市佔率 我說市佔率以113年來是46%跟荷蘭也差不多 所以我們兩國是勢均力敵一直在競爭我們的美國市場那現在的競爭的基礎是一樣的那我相信我們 一定有不一樣"},{"start":576.38,"end":594.769,"text":"不一樣 立即的 核心不一樣模式也不同 我跟委員做一個報告在我們原來ART爭取到的我們的蝴蝶藍是豁免的也就是說我們原來MFN是零對等也豁免 專屬豁免所以我們就憂鬱 可是122在150天裡面就沒有豁免會不會再延長也不知道"},{"start":601.972,"end":628.12,"text":"122是一個過渡的階段目前是10加MA分那這是一個過渡階段所以美國政府已經有說明了過渡階段之後會啟動其他法律途徑那我們推估我想未來的法律途徑調查之下的結果某種程度應該會反映談判結果那也就是我們要去爭取確保的一個目標那所以我們有達成協議的國家是嘛是嘛ART是一個我們有利的基礎"},{"start":628.78,"end":633.263,"text":"所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢"},{"start":645.631,"end":657.626,"text":"會不會再延長 我也相信啊啊就簽署下去 經過兩邊的國會以後那當然它就是一個穩定的一個架構啊它是一個有利的基礎是一個基礎沒有錯啊 但是你150天這150天政府要怎麼幫忙我跟委員報告喔 這150天就跟去年4月以前一樣"},{"start":663.874,"end":665.135,"text":"我們補充我們不要用這個角度"},{"start":679.554,"end":703.831,"text":"我要講的就是說 一定會受到衝擊啦我們政府就必須要當農民的後盾市場開發不易啦這第一個蝴蝶蘭的部分啦我絕對肯定你們一定會有行政措施我希望我們品牌打出來以後我們也可以去升級因為它整個經營成本是不一樣的第二個我再來舉例 毛豆就好我們非常認同 我們會絕對支持產業不論任何變數"},{"start":706.673,"end":726.262,"text":"我們都讓我們的產業能夠維繫相對的競爭力我們也會爭取到最後的結果講到很多的成果我都肯認我是從這些擔心的本來跟我農業沒有事情的整體談判下來以後我本來就是弱勢我本來出口就是比較少還進口更多還要開放"},{"start":728.091,"end":752.73,"text":"雙重打擊你知道嗎我再舉一個矛盾就好了委員我三點跟你報告我們已經有300億的農安基金作為後盾這個可以解決未來可能發生的種種狀況再來美方政府已經說過了他延續延續後續的作為之後他會通知包括我國在內其他已經簽署的一些國家我們那時候才會知道我們確保的這個阿特的最有利的待遇會不會得到"},{"start":754.27,"end":778.062,"text":"維繫住 我們現在就全力來爭取這個再來15%不疊加的這個關稅還沒有發生所以我們院長我們今天才必須要這個專報嘛你本來說阿特我告訴你 我就專報給你拍拍我給你農業 你就把農民都倒極其得現在就變成是122的條款這150天政府怎麼來支持我還談到第二個 你說毛豆就好啦中國本來是這樣 中國都不會說嘛 對不對"},{"start":780.183,"end":801.258,"text":"本來就是說中美之間的貿易大戰 台灣撬一塊肉的魚肉給它開拓一點市場 好啦 現在大家都一樣以後中國賣不到美國去的 會賣到什麼地方去 日本日本台灣是占七成 台灣本來到日本市場占七成啊中國到美國是占七成啊"},{"start":803.05,"end":827.109,"text":"他做他的 我們做我們的你現在賣米還賣不賣給他之後他全部都把你丟到日本去你說對台灣不會有衝擊一定產生嚴重的衝擊嘛所以我要跟你說的 柏定不是說你沒搞我要跟你說的是說這八五天裡面要怎麼做一個因應尤其是 我很擔心啦八五天 你說我笑笑咧八五天之後跟你說不然再延一百天"},{"start":828.65,"end":835.652,"text":"很難講啦尤其是你看 譬如說 部長你最清楚啊你過頭腦的部分 本地15% 現在15%又變成加MFN 被寫出口去到美國嘿嘿 你再加這15%下去齁 我如果買這裡 我跟你講啦"},{"start":846.276,"end":869.005,"text":"15%的利潤也差不多再來喔 黑人也要挨挨救啦李純也差不多在那裡報告委員 是不是我跟委員補充一下這個現在行政命令還是10加1倍分當然川普總統說15現在10加1倍分我們還會再觀察那毛豆的部分我們之前是23因為是20加1倍分那現在就是10加"},{"start":871.027,"end":887.726,"text":"3.8那未來即使15的話是18.8跟越南泰國中國立足平等如果我們未來鞏固R的談判結果我們會優於越南泰國中國那您關心的這個鬼頭刀的這個部分如果我們這個目前如果是以"},{"start":889.649,"end":903.185,"text":"這個10或15跟越南厄瓜多立足平等但如果我們能夠鞏固ART的成果其實我們也會立足平等相對優勢所以我簡而言之第一個我們原來ART的談判結果並沒有委員所說的雙重衝擊"},{"start":904.426,"end":917.214,"text":"我們爭取到的出口優勢我們在進口的部分守住我們糧食安全的重要項目那的確現在面對一二二的行政命令我們會全力支持我們的產業來面對新的優勢那我們未來會鞏固我們的台灣成果"},{"start":925.959,"end":930.625,"text":"我講一句話 就是說我們現在你關心這8.5天1.2條款裡面我們怎麼樣去協助農民我跟委員報告我們已經持續 像軌道道來講我們已經持續"},{"start":945.149,"end":957.297,"text":"你到最後你這個東南亞的成本他更低啊他更低啊所以對台灣你說沒有衝擊那是不可能今天的一個狀況要分析啊最主要是說擔心"},{"start":964.627,"end":988.974,"text":"一個衝擊的部分期待我們政委法可以給農民給漁民更大的一個當他們的一個後度啊如果沒有人要跟我們說我滿意啊我是針對說農民 漁民無辜啦因為我正是在談的是在講貿易的一個勝差懲罰的一個關稅啊跟農民幹什麼因為台灣事務部別家並沒有發財所以我們回到原來"},{"start":995.888,"end":1007.959,"text":"好 我們那個是不是其他的不用問 你用書面問書面回答莊委員 好不好好 謝謝莊委員謝謝莊委員為農民發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:06.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:11.077000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:11.077000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:12.077000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:11.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:17.599000+08:00","text":"還有行政院鄭麗君副院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:17.599000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:18.599000+08:00","text":"請鄭副院長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:17.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:20.039000+08:00","text":"請這一次的談判代表楊代表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:20.039000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:21.039000+08:00","text":"楊代表，請備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:21.039000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:22.039000+08:00","text":"也請農業部陳部長、經濟部龔部長。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:21.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:22.680000+08:00","text":"農業部陳部長、經濟部龔部長，請備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:34.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:36.932000+08:00","text":"院長、副院長，辛苦了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:36.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:37.932000+08:00","text":"莊委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:37.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:20:56.308000+08:00","text":"我今天從院長針對臺美關稅的專報，聽到了很多讓民眾安心的地方，但是有一些對產業的衝擊，本席在這個地方也不得不提出憂慮。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:20:56.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:22:17.647000+08:00","text":"也就是這一次從2025年4月3號川普宣布32%的對等關稅，然後我們的政府開始因應，到了去（2025）年8月1號，談出暫時性稅率20%＋MFN；到了今（2026）年，其實就是幾天前的2月13號，我們談出了一個讓國人跟行政團隊拍手叫好，2月13號簽署了ART協定，15%、不疊加；可是2月20號美國最高法院裁定引用的法源有問題，認為是違憲或者違法，那在2月24號川普又引用了貿易法122條款，又變成15%且疊加MFN的最惠國待遇，所以我在這個地方要請教副院長，你認為在這一次談判裡面取得最重大的勝利，讓行政團隊覺得自豪的地方是哪一點？","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:22:17.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:23:06.585000+08:00","text":"報告委員，臺美歷經10個月、兩個階段的談判，我國跟美國是對等關稅及232條款併談，我們分別簽署了ART對等貿易協定跟投資MOU，取得在逆差國中對等關稅最佳的待遇──15%且不疊加以及232條款下最惠國待遇，我想這是雙重的最佳待遇，所以這個談判結果不論傳統產業、農業以及高科技產業，過去在10個月前以及10個月內造成的衝擊已經大幅減緩，甚至未來我們將由負轉正來提升我國在國際上的競爭力，這是我們的談判結果。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:23:07.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:23:20.098000+08:00","text":"委員所關心有關美國最高法院的判決，美國政府已經說得很清楚，232條款是不受影響的，所以我們取得232的多項關稅優惠是不受影響的。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:23:20.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:23:49.982000+08:00","text":"至於對等關稅所簽署ART的部分，美國政府也已經宣布了，未來他們的關稅政策方向不變，但是判決失效的IEEPA法律工具，美國將會有替代性的法律途徑安排，而階段性的是122條款，目前行政命令公布的是10%＋MFN，當然川普總統有說可能會提高到15%，目前我們還在關注他要怎麼提高。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:23:50.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:09.752000+08:00","text":"至於122條款是一個過渡性的階段性安排，其實USTR美國貿易代表署的葛里爾已經說了，未來他可能會啟動301條款或其他法律途徑來重建原來對等關稅的法律途徑，反映出前階段的談判結果。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:10.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:29.468000+08:00","text":"我想我方政府的目標非常清楚，過去已經爭取到最佳待遇，未來在美方過渡性的措施以及後續法律基礎的重整過程當中，我方持續努力溝通，確保我們已經取得具相對優勢的最佳待遇。謝謝。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:29.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:37.154000+08:00","text":"我們有信心達成這個目標，維繫產業已經在國際競爭上取得的相對優勢。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:37.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:41.238000+08:00","text":"我們已經跟美方取得聯繫，我們會密切保持聯繫跟溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:41.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:53.893000+08:00","text":"我們期待的不是只有行政團隊有信心，我們期待的是行政團隊談判完以後，這一些具體的談判結果可以去落實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:53.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:24:54.313000+08:00","text":"我為什麼這樣講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:24:55.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:25:28.682000+08:00","text":"譬如說，誠如副院長所講的，其中76%涉及到232條款的部分，你們簽訂的MOU這部分這次是安全過關，整體來看就是為什麼國人會認為該給你們掌聲的地方，高科技不管是半導體也好、AI也好、伺服器也好，這一些是臺灣的強項，整個供應鏈強得不得了，毛利也高，這個部分維持原來的，但其他24%的部分就令人擔心了。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:25:29.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:25:30.743000+08:00","text":"但最擔心的是在什麼地方？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:25:31.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:26:26.947000+08:00","text":"本來好不容易談出一個ART，本來是不疊加，2月13號簽署了以後，15%且不疊加MFN，整個談判的內容裡面，可是有471項產品是豁免的，可是美國現在川普以一個行政命令，馬上就跟你講說，我現在用122條款，你原來那些豁免不見了，也就是說，整個法條一轉換、授權一轉換以後，我們原來那一些可以得到豁免的地方，本來是可以零的，但美國政府跟你說，我現在全部都收回，就這一些衝擊，如果站在一個理性的國民來看，整體的談判是成功的，給掌聲，可是如果站在整個農業來看的話，我看了實在有點心驚膽跳。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:26:28.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:26:40.351000+08:00","text":"我是一個農家子弟、種田的，農民很辛苦，我都非常清楚，譬如這一次美國叫做「對等關稅」，在本席看來這哪是對等關稅？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:26:40.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:13.716000+08:00","text":"這個全部都是在懲罰全世界，臺灣身為美國第四大順差貿易國，我們給人家賺太多，所以川普也認為全世界賺他太多，全部都向你課懲罰關稅，講的叫做「對等關稅」，可是他單方面課了以後，一個很大的麻煩就是，臺灣出口的強項是工業，工業賺順差，而臺灣並非強項的農業，就必須要去扛關稅。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:13.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:18.286000+08:00","text":"我來請教我們的農業部長好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:18.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:18.666000+08:00","text":"請問農業部長，我們一年從美國出口的農產品是多少？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:18.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:20.607000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，出口的部分是37億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:20.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:20.767000+08:00","text":"37億，差不多38億。對……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:20.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.207000+08:00","text":"沒有，那應該是進口……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.487000+08:00","text":"8.9億，對不起，是8.9億。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.547000+08:00","text":"應該是進口。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.807000+08:00","text":"進口是36.9億……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:21.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:27:22.188000+08:00","text":"進口37億，出口8.9億。8.9億。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:27:22.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:28:09.729000+08:00","text":"我們出口八億多還不夠用，我們還進口38億，以農業來講的話，整體來看我們是逆差，只是我們倒楣，賣去美國的少，但進口很多，我們今天被懲罰的部分是因為我們享受了很多貿易的順差，所以川普、美國針對這一些貿易順差的國家，他就要給你懲罰，跟你說這叫做對等關稅，所以我懲罰你。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:28:09.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:28:49.120000+08:00","text":"可是針對農業來講，這次的談判結果我是開心不起來啦，整體來看，對整個國家，當然我們的影響會不大，跟其他國家來做比較的話，我們還算不錯，可是以農業來講，我們出口不到9億，進口不到38億，但這個關稅變成農業來中槍，我來舉例就好，本來蝴蝶蘭的部分在美國市場占四成以上，現在是15%，你的利潤全部都稀釋掉了，有關競爭對手，你看荷蘭就是我們最大的競爭對手，我們跟他們……","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:28:49.120000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:28:51.341000+08:00","text":"對，他也是15%。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:28:51.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:05.151000+08:00","text":"是，但問題是荷蘭跟我們的模式不一樣，我們是用海運，要運輸再加15%，荷蘭雖跟我們一樣統統是15%，但是他的蝴蝶蘭是怎麼樣？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:05.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:06.412000+08:00","text":"是直接在美國那個地方設廠。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:07.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:36.168000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣也在美國設廠，我跟委員報告，在美國的市場，現在臨時性的122條款中的10%或以後的15%，我們跟荷蘭的立足點是一樣的，現在我們在美國的市占率，我說的是市占率，以113年來講是46%，跟荷蘭也差不多，所以我們兩國是勢均力敵一直在競爭美國市場，現在的競爭基礎是一樣的，我相信我們……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:36.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:43.482000+08:00","text":"部長，不一樣、不一樣，利基核心不一樣，模式也不同，我們的成本比別人高。","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:44.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:53.968000+08:00","text":"我跟委員做一個報告，我們原來在ART爭取到的，即我們的蝴蝶蘭是豁免的，也就是說，我們本來MFN是零，對等也豁免，是專屬豁免，所以我們是優於……","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:54.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:55.808000+08:00","text":"問題來了，雖然是專屬豁免，可是122條款在150天裡面就沒有豁免啊！","quality":0.44},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:29:55.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:29:56.749000+08:00","text":"會不會再延長也不知道啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:03.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:31.300000+08:00","text":"報告委員，122條款是一個過渡的階段，目前是10%+MFN，這是一個過渡階段，美國政府已經有說明過渡階段之後會啟動其他法律途徑，我們推估未來的法律途徑，調查之下的結果某種程度應該會反映談判結果，那也就是我們要去爭取、確保的一個目標，所以我們是有達成協議的國家，ART是一個我們有利的基礎，所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:31.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:47.631000+08:00","text":"我絕對相信有利，我也肯定你們這一次的談判，但是本席擔心的是122條款這150天的暫時性措施，第一個，是不是真的只有150天？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:47.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:48.732000+08:00","text":"會不會再延長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:48.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:54.499000+08:00","text":"我也相信ART簽署下去，經過兩邊的國會相關程序以後，當然它就是一個穩定的架構啊！","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:54.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:56.362000+08:00","text":"它是一個有利的基礎。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:56.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:30:58.324000+08:00","text":"是一個基礎沒有錯，但是這150天政府要怎麼去幫忙？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:30:58.324000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:31:06.534000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，關於這150天，就跟去年4月以前一樣，關稅大家一致性的時候就各憑本事，臺灣是用水草種植，我們的盆花壽命會比荷蘭用木塊種植還高，所以我們的市占率還是很高的。","quality":0.26},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:31:06.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:31:41.728000+08:00","text":"部長，我們不要用這個角度來看，我要講的是一定會受到衝擊，我們的政府必須要當農民的後盾，市場開發不易，這是第一個有關蝴蝶蘭的部分，我絕對肯定你們一定會有行政措施，我希望我們的品牌打出來以後，我們也可以升級，因為他整個經營成本是不一樣的。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:31:42.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:31:43.630000+08:00","text":"第二個我再來舉例毛豆就好了……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:31:43.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:31:54.216000+08:00","text":"委員關心產業我們非常認同，我們絕對支持產業，不論任何變數，我們都要讓我們的產業能夠維繫相對的競爭力，我們也會爭取到最好的結果。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:31:54.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:11.472000+08:00","text":"你們說了很多，講到很多的成果我都肯認，但我還是要提出我所擔心的這些部分，本來農業是沒有事情的，結果整體談判下來以後，我本來就是弱勢，我本來出口就比較少，結果還進口更多、還要開放，雙重打擊你知道嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:11.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:12.472000+08:00","text":"不會啦……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:12.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:13.472000+08:00","text":"不是這樣……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:11.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:12.653000+08:00","text":"我再舉例毛豆就好了……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:12.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:20.779000+08:00","text":"委員，我有三點跟你報告，我們已經有300億的農安基金做為後盾，這可以解決未來可能發生的種種狀況。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:21.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:38.752000+08:00","text":"其次，美方政府已經說過他們延長後續的作為之後，他們會通知包括我國在內其他已經簽署的一些國家，我們那個時候才會知道我們確保的ART最有利待遇會不會維繫住，我們現在就全力來爭取這個。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:38.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:42.774000+08:00","text":"再來，15%且不疊加的關稅還沒有發生……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:42.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:45.935000+08:00","text":"所以我們今天才必須安排這個專報嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:46.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:32:55.680000+08:00","text":"本來如果是ART，全部就給你鼓掌，關於農業你支持農民就好了，結果現在變成122條款這150天政府怎麼來支持？","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:32:56.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:00.042000+08:00","text":"我再談到第二個，以毛豆來講就好了，中國本來都是賣給美國對嗎？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:02.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:08.487000+08:00","text":"本來是中美之間的貿易大戰，臺灣去撿一些肉屑，多開拓一點市場。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:09.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:15.232000+08:00","text":"現在大家都一樣以後，中國賣不到美國去的，會賣到什麼地方去？日本……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:15.232000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:18.755000+08:00","text":"日本是我們的主要輸出國。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:18.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:32.216000+08:00","text":"臺灣本來到日本市場是占七成，中國到美國是占七成，本來他們做他們的，我們做我們的，現在賣美國賣不進去之後，他們全部都丟到日本去，你說對臺灣不會有衝擊嗎？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:32.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:33.877000+08:00","text":"一定產生嚴重的衝擊嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:35.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:41.783000+08:00","text":"部長，並不是你們不厲害，我要跟你說的是這150天裡面要怎麼做因應？","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:41.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:49.089000+08:00","text":"尤其我很擔心美國人瘋瘋的，會不會在150天之後說再延100天？","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:50.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:33:51.450000+08:00","text":"很難講啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:33:53.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:34:13.698000+08:00","text":"部長你最清楚，鬼頭刀的部分本來是15%，現在變成15%+MFN，八成出口到美國，你再加這15%下去，我如果是買家，我跟你說15%的利潤也差不多了，包括漁民也唉唉叫，利潤也差不多是這樣而已。","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:34:14.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:34:24.142000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我跟委員補充一下，現在行政命令還是10%+MFN，當然川普總統說是15%，但現在是10%+MFN，我們還會再觀察。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:34:24.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:34:59.918000+08:00","text":"關於毛豆的部分，我們之前是23%，因為是20%+MFN，那現在就是10%+3.8%，未來即使是15%的話，就變成是18.8%，跟越南、泰國、中國立足平等，但如果我們能夠鞏固ART的成果，其實我們也會立足平等，擁有相對優勢。","quality":0.779},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:34:59.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:12.570000+08:00","text":"所以我簡而言之，第一個，我們原來ART談判結果並沒有委員所說的雙重衝擊，我們爭取到的出口優勢，在進口的部分，守住我們糧食安全的重要項目……不對！不對！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:13.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:18.193000+08:00","text":"的確現在面對112條款的行政命令，我們會全力支持我們的產業來面對新的潛勢……不對！","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:18.193000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:19.193000+08:00","text":"副院長，農漁業經營模式不是這樣……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:18.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:18.794000+08:00","text":"我們未來會鞏固我們的談判成果……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:18.794000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:27.959000+08:00","text":"現在譬如說臺灣鯛……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:27.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:28.360000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我講一句話就好。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:28.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:32.625000+08:00","text":"現在你關心這150天、112條款裡面我們怎麼樣去協助農民，我跟委員報告，像鬼頭刀來講，我們已經持續協助漁船部分相關的配套措施。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:47.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:35:55.895000+08:00","text":"是，我今天要跟你講的是，譬如像臺灣鯛，到最後東南亞的成本更低，你說對臺灣沒有衝擊，那是不可能的！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:35:56.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:16.570000+08:00","text":"在今天的專報裡面，本席最主要是擔心24%的部分、尤其是農漁業衝擊的部分，期待我們政府可以當農民、漁民更大的後盾，如果沒有要說這麼多，我也可以幫你鼓掌，也說很滿意啊！","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:17.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:20.051000+08:00","text":"我是針對農民、漁民，他們無辜啊！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:21.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:24.552000+08:00","text":"因為這裡在講的是貿易的順差、懲罰的關稅……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:24.552000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:25.552000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，沒有這樣，沒有這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:25.552000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:26.552000+08:00","text":"委員有所誤會，我們再說一次。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:25.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:30.974000+08:00","text":"因為15%且不疊加並沒有發生，所以我們是回到原來的競爭點，沒有改變的。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:30.974000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:40.831000+08:00","text":"是「20%+」有沒有下降，我們現在全力鞏固原來得到的成果，一定全力支持產業，一定全力支持產業。","quality":0.051},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:40.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:46.836000+08:00","text":"是不是其他的部分用書面回答莊委員，好不好？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:46.836000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:47.836000+08:00","text":"衝擊的部分也請院長、請部長……拜託啦，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:47.836000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:48.836000+08:00","text":"委員關心的衝擊，我們一定全力支持。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:47.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:49.339000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭副院長麗君","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:49.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:50.339000+08:00","text":"全力支持，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:49.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:49.939000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊委員為農民發聲。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:36:50.439000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:36:53.581857+08:00","text":"下一位請林沛祥委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}