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謝謝主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢林委好卓院長好卓院長今天我站在這裡不是來否定行政團隊對於台美關稅上付出的心力跟努力而我們是來了解現況"},{"start":39.568,"end":60.938,"text":"而且來幫國人解惑的對台美合作我們是支持的為台灣爭取更好的經貿條件我們也鼓掌但是因為我們支持所以我們更要問清楚畢竟協議簽了魔鬼藏在細節裡院長先請教你第一個問題日前美國最高法院裁定川普總統2025年對各國爭"},{"start":63.837,"end":90.647,"text":"加徵關稅的措施違憲這不是小事這代表美方行政權所依據的法律基礎已經出現重大的動搖行政院過去對外說明台美談成的15%關稅是不疊加但是現在實際情況上面來講15%已經出現疊加所以我就在這邊想請教院長既然法律的授權的基礎已經改變"},{"start":91.385,"end":120.435,"text":"原本不疊加的條件是否仍然成立好 跟委員詳細報告我們現在的狀況即使沒有發生美國最高法院的判決我們現在仍然是百分之二十加MFN所謂談判的ART裡面的百分之十五不疊加還沒有經過國會保留的程序所以是沒有生效美國對他國內程序也沒有完成行政命令也沒有完成所以我們的現狀是百分之二十加MFN"},{"start":121.115,"end":147.79,"text":"那爭取到百分之十五不加那個還沒有生效但經過美國最高人判決之後現在他改用這個一二條款已經不用原來的IPA用一二條款之後現在美國宣布是百分之十加MFN所以現在是百分之十加MFN或許未來川普總統的百分之十五還會往上疊加目前狀況是如此所以我們認為我們所爭取的百分之十五"},{"start":148.82,"end":165.578,"text":"不疊加這個是對台灣最有利的我們可以跟我們競爭國家相比較我想請教一下行政院是否現在有跟美方確認我們談的效益我們談的協議是否有用當然我們已經跟美方取得聯繫我們希望在這個150天當中一二條款的暫時的關稅當中"},{"start":169.222,"end":195.36,"text":"我們盡快跟美方確認也確保我們在ART當中已經雙方簽署的這個內容那因為美國要對其他全世界各個國家所以我剛剛在報告裡面也提到美方政府團隊會研議後續作為他完成後續這作為之後會通知包括我國在內的已簽署的協議國家我們也在這個對象當中有正式的文件或法律意見書嗎"},{"start":196.641,"end":220.873,"text":"我們希望如果他因為法律基礎有所改變從IPA變更到122的時候他應該告訴我們法律變更的內容不變這就是為什麼我把第一個問題提出來的原因因為說真的我們不是在質疑談判團結的能力而是我們在於制度穩定性的問題上面我們是出口導向的國家關稅的一個百分點牽動是整個產業的競爭力"},{"start":223.274,"end":236.724,"text":"那我在這邊也誠摯的建議院長我們是否可以放慢一下腳步看看我們最主要的競爭對手日本 韓國他們面對這一波的關稅談判採取什麼樣的態度 什麼樣的步驟 什麼樣的節奏"},{"start":238.966,"end":258.602,"text":"他們一樣表達堅持過去的談判協議的結果我們是可以慢一點我們在這邊是建議是慢一點因為現在不確定因素太多了那如果我們急著表態不見得能夠幫我們台灣換取到最大的利益穩健出牌才是我認為跟留台灣之道"},{"start":258.962,"end":272.699,"text":"我應該也支持我們爭取原來我們談妥的ART15%不疊加的關稅吧你也支持我們去做這樣的確保我現在其實我現在要問第二個比較敏感的問題了啦老實說因為我們知道曾立勳副院長封城僕僕從美國趕回來"},{"start":274.241,"end":294.433,"text":"在記者會上面告訴全國人民說談判成果豐碩我們爭取到比日韓更優惠的15%關稅不疊加還有2000多項的零關稅優惠條件但是現在我想明確請院長告訴我們現在這2000多項零關稅是否還依舊是零關稅有沒有疊加的風險呢"},{"start":295.489,"end":312.599,"text":"部分的品項是在美國現在一二當中沒有豁免的品項當中所以我們要確保的就是已經談妥的協議是不是照原來2700多項的關稅豁免的部分我們能夠全數的保留下來"},{"start":313.799,"end":334.949,"text":"對台灣能夠繼續的予以豁免這個我們才能夠跟我們的競爭國家因為其他國家也許對美的關稅原來是低的我想我現在問的問題跟剛剛莊委員有些地方有些相似就是說我們了解說在國際在國際政治上面守信的重要性我們也支持台灣遵守這個協議但是守信的前提是"},{"start":335.689,"end":348.964,"text":"這個所謂叫reciprocal tariff我記得是條件一致雙方對等如果當初談定的條件是15不疊加現在卻變成15再加其他關稅那這還算是同一份協議嗎更何況"},{"start":350.726,"end":364.064,"text":"美國大法官已經判定川普關稅違憲賴總統也表示台灣願意繼續遵守協議這份誠意我們肯定但是美國如果被判違憲之後反而可以不受本來的協議約束繼續加收關稅"},{"start":366.767,"end":395.244,"text":"史蔣院長這就不叫對等關稅這叫做我說了算所以委員我請問委員是不是支持政府去向美國確保我們已經爭取到了如果要繼續執行這樣的協議行政院要如何說服國人美國是可以在任何狀況下單方面改變協議另一方卻必須無條件遵守這樣子立法院如何同意已經變調的協議呢所以委員是不是也同意我剛剛所說的"},{"start":396.104,"end":419.439,"text":"希望政府去確保我們取得的百分之十五不疊加的我們是現在先去問說這法律基礎的問題我只想請問一下如果有人支持我們這樣的做法我們現在的做法就是向美國要求他我們現在是在法律基礎上我們必須先確認不然的話我們現在談出來任何事情可能就是因為一個念頭而去改變這其實對我們台灣談出來的結果是非常不利的"},{"start":419.679,"end":448.127,"text":"所以我想請院長回答我剛剛的問題所以兩個問題是委員應該支持我們現在的態度爭取百分之五不疊加這個協議我覺得我們現在已經到一個死胡同就是我們一直在說因為我現在要問的是說我們是不是在這個法律上面這法律基礎是穩定的因為我們如果簽的協議法律基礎是不穩定的那這個協議嚴格講起來就很fragile就非常的脆弱所以我想請院長先跟我們確認一下是否這個法律基礎是穩定的"},{"start":448.507,"end":475.19,"text":"所以我再次強調我們在報告當中所提到的美方政府正在研議後續的作為完成後會通知包括我國在內的已經簽署的貿易協議的國家法律是不是穩定是美方政府正在努力的工作不是我們去替美方說美國的法律但就我們而言我們是極力爭取已經確保得到的最佳待遇我們爭取這個態度"},{"start":476.932,"end":496.234,"text":"所以美國說的算嗎美國的法律當然美國說的算啊那變成是說我們兩邊法律的話變成我們簽這法律還是美國說的算的話那我們就知道美國的法律基礎在調整不是我們在調整是美國的法律基礎在調整第三個問題因為我時間也蠻有限的第三個問題也是我認為目前最迫切的"},{"start":497.035,"end":515.989,"text":"電子業工具機傳統產業農漁產品石化汽車零組件每一個產業受到的衝擊程度是不同的成本轉嫁能力也不同供應鏈的結構也截然不同目前企業只能從新聞片段拼湊資訊自行解讀協議內容老實說這樣對於產業的發展是極大的傷害對於整個經貿治理嚴謹而講起來也是不負責任的因此"},{"start":524.935,"end":548.565,"text":"我們正式要求行政院責成經濟部財政部農業部等相關部會針對各主要產業別儘速召開更多的公聽會讓業者能夠清楚了解他們被影響的範圍成本變動情況政府的配套措施以及補貼或協助機制同時讓業者有機會能夠直接表達意見"},{"start":549.685,"end":571.272,"text":"我個人認為經貿談判不能只有政府對政府也必須有政府對產業的溝通與對話院長針對這個召開公聽會這件事情我們已經在做在去年對等關稅宣布4月2號的前後我們已經啟動了所有的影響評估的委託智庫來研究那現在我們在"},{"start":571.952,"end":593.944,"text":"美國最高法院判決之後我們也委託智庫來進行影響的分析這個都有在做那分析的結果我們會透過跟產業的關懷座談跟產業做報告這個部分請部長來說明對事實上座談會從4月1號開始我們現在辦了幾十場的座談會包括大大小小總統還有院長還有我個人中南部不知道跑了多少次"},{"start":594.471,"end":620.069,"text":"然後呢除了這個之外我們在過年前還院長指示下我們還啟動了這個關懷的這個電話打了超過幾萬通的電話包括如果公股銀行的話是十幾二十萬通就是問他們就是說在這個過程當中是不是要政府有需要更進一步的協助那有一些我們就會把它整理出來那什麼需要政府政策我們就來加強這個部分"},{"start":621.25,"end":642.845,"text":"不好意思 部長 院長我覺得是目前來講因為這個時空背景不同國際關係 國際環境變化很快那所以說可能這個公聽會可能要繼續辦要讓產業多多了解因為現在狀況已經變成是沒有人可以猜到明天會發生什麼事所以說院長其實我認為我們的立場其實很清楚"},{"start":643.365,"end":661.75,"text":"我們支持台美合作我們也支持台灣的國際布局但是我們要求制度要穩定法律要清楚產業要能安心資訊要能透明因此我認為說這有四點就是院長必須要給我們不只是給我個人也不只是給國民黨黨團而是給全民的一個回答"},{"start":662.83,"end":690.429,"text":"我希望委員再加上支持現在政府向美方確保我們已經得到最佳利益的爭取支持政府向美方確保我們已經得到的最佳利益我們先把四個問題講清楚因為我認為這四個問題也是全國的人民甚至全國的人民都在關心的第一個就是美國高等法院裁定違憲之後台美協議的效力依據為何行政院是否已跟美方正式確認"},{"start":691.71,"end":710.31,"text":"第二個原談判成果中兩千多項的零關稅優惠目前是否依舊有效是否已排除疊加風險第三行政院是否同意召開各產業別公聽會第四行政院是否願意提出完整的產業衝擊評估影響報告送及立法院來審閱"},{"start":714.494,"end":736.275,"text":"我認為台灣的產業界需要的不是口號而是一個可預期可依靠的制度環境那我認為這些東西也都是我們全民不分黨派大家都在期待的那最後剩有一點時間剛好雖然今天是所謂關稅的專案報告但是昨天才發前幾天目前全世界最大的新聞就是美伊開戰"},{"start":737.156,"end":761.636,"text":"那美伊開戰之後呢我本席要在這邊利用非常短的時間來請教院長跟部長在伊朗發生戰爭之後經過四天之後經濟部剛好部長在這邊今天才要召開能源會議那我想請問部長跟院長因為這個是有關國安危機我們都知道能源危機就是國安危機請問院長跟部長我國的天然氣來源能源有25%來自卡達請問現在的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":765.556,"end":781.265,"text":"我先說一下程序第一天戰爭發生之後的第一天國安團隊已經向總統跟行政團隊提出了說明昨天我們已經召開了一次的會議接下去是經濟部要啟動真正的這個緊急應變機制他馬上啟動至於說能源的分佈緊急市場來請部長來說明"},{"start":784.235,"end":810.573,"text":"是 報告委員那個院長的指示我們從今天開始是從我們次長賴次長每天都會主持專案會議來看看這個情勢的一個變化那第二個就是說先跟您報告就是說我們先講三月份天然氣的部分如果是前半個月的部分因為已經出了核母式海蝦這個都沒有問題了那現在關心的是三月份下半月的事情下半月的事情跟委員報告"},{"start":812.489,"end":825.87,"text":"昨天那個同仁已經跟我講這個在其他的市場上已經掉到貨所以3月份沒有問題所以我們盡量的是說4月份我們開始啟動了有一些掉貨如果因為我們也不希望說萬一"},{"start":828.315,"end":844.212,"text":"這個暫時拖到四月份的話但是萬一拖到四月份的話我們還是有一些因應措施因為這個戰爭目前各方眾說紛紜有說四週有說四年所以完全非常不一樣所以我們現在準備好最少最少這個三月份的問題已經解決了"},{"start":844.833,"end":872.128,"text":"所以我現在是未來有沒有可能這應該在短期之間不會因為有電燃天然氣不足而限電的問題吧短期之間不會 絕對不會那我們大概到幾月包委員現在我們是程序上來講第一個您剛才講天然氣我們先把這個3月份的這個來源先確保了那因為天然氣的部分主要還是用來發電目前來講那如果是電力的部分的話包委員因為我們現在還有一些備用基礎"},{"start":872.828,"end":897.441,"text":"就是非天然氣的備用基礎隨時可以來備用接下來兩個末期的問題可是全國都很關心的有沒有可能造成電價上漲是不是會全面啟動煤炭發電呢因為這個電價還是要回歸到電價審議會那我們也希望說這個事件都是短暫的時間或是一個階段性而已那就比較不會對電價有沒有可能是不是會造成電價上漲"},{"start":899.051,"end":910.238,"text":"我們還是要觀察目前的情況因為這個決定權還是在審議委員會有沒有打算那是不是因為這個事情會打算全面開啟煤炭發電呢那個是最後手段"},{"start":914.637,"end":931.685,"text":"跟委員報告我們LNG還是有安全的存量那剛剛部長所報告是三月份我們進來的LNG的這個量沒有任何的影響現在我們經過我們這個緊急的調度啊資源之後三月份來源是沒有影響但是我們還是會有"},{"start":946.833,"end":948.436,"text":"好 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:13.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:17.044000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:17.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:28.289000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:28.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:28.549000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:29.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:29.590000+08:00","text":"卓院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:30.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:38.534000+08:00","text":"卓院長，今天我站在這裡，不是來否定行政團隊對於臺美關稅上付出的心力跟努力……謝謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:39.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:43.069000+08:00","text":"我們是來了解現況，而且來幫國人解惑的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:44.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:37:57.695000+08:00","text":"對臺美合作，我們是支持的；為臺灣爭取更好的經貿條件，我們也鼓掌，但是因為我們支持，所以我們更要問清楚，畢竟協議簽了，魔鬼藏在細節裡。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:37:57.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:38:16.341000+08:00","text":"院長，先請教你第一個問題，日前美國最高法院裁定川普總統2025年對各國加徵關稅的措施違憲，這不是小事，而是代表美方行政權所依據的法律基礎已經出現重大的動搖。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:38:16.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:38:36.506000+08:00","text":"行政院過去對外說明，臺美談成的15%關稅是不疊加，但是現在實際情況上面來講，15%已經出現疊加，所以我想請教院長，既然法律的授權基礎已經改變，原本不疊加的條件是否仍然成立？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:38:37.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:39:02.415000+08:00","text":"跟委員詳細報告，我們現在的狀況是，即使沒有發生美國最高法院的判決，我們現在仍然是20%+MFN，所謂談判的ART裡面的15%且不疊加，還沒有經過國會保留的程序，所以是沒有生效的，美國國內的程序沒有完成，行政命令也沒有完成，所以我們的現狀是20%+MFN。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:39:03.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:39:26.608000+08:00","text":"而爭取到的15%且不疊加，那個還沒有生效，但經過美國最高法院判決之後，現在他改用112條款，已經不用原來IEEPA，用112條款之後，現在美國宣布是10%+MFN，所以現在是10%+MFN，或許未來川普總統的15%還會往上疊加，目前狀況是如此。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:39:27.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:39:36.146000+08:00","text":"所以我們認為我們所爭取的15%且不疊加是對臺灣最有利的，我們可以跟我們競爭國家相比較。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:39:36.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:39:43.434000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，行政院現在有跟美方確認我們談的協議是否有用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:39:43.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:01.869000+08:00","text":"當然，我們已經跟美方取得聯繫，我們希望在150天當中、112條款的暫時性關稅當中，儘快跟美方確認，也確保在ART當中雙方已經簽署的內容，但因為美國對於其他全世界各個國家……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:01.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:02.869000+08:00","text":"有正式文件嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:02.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:15.739000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛在報告裡面也提到美方政府團隊會研議後續作為，當完成後續作為之後，會通知包括我國在內的已簽署協議國家，我們也在這個對象當中。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:15.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:17.360000+08:00","text":"院長，有正式的文件或法律意見書嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:18.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:19.541000+08:00","text":"我們希望如此！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:19.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:29.046000+08:00","text":"如果他因為法律基礎有所改變，從IEEPA變更到第122條款的時候，他應該告訴我們，法律變更，內容不變。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:29.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:42.853000+08:00","text":"這就是為什麼我把第一個問題提出來的原因，因為說真的，我們不是在質疑談判團隊的能力，而是在於制度穩定性的問題上面，我們是出口導向的國家，關稅一個百分點牽動的是整個產業的競爭力。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:40:45.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:40:58.704000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也誠摯地建議院長，我們是否可以放慢一下腳步，看看我們最主要的競爭對手日本、韓國，他們面對這一波的關稅談判採取什麼樣的態度、什麼樣的步驟、什麼樣的節奏，因為充滿著……","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:00.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:03.828000+08:00","text":"他們也是一樣表達，堅持過去談判協議的結果。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:04.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:20.582000+08:00","text":"我們是可以慢一點，在這邊我們要求、建議慢一點，因為現在不確定因素太多了，如果我們急著表態，不見得能夠幫臺灣換取到最大利益，穩健出牌我認為才是根留臺灣之道。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:21.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:25.808000+08:00","text":"委員應該也支持我們爭取原來我們談妥的ART 15%且不疊加的關稅吧？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:26.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:27.911000+08:00","text":"你也支持我們去做這樣的確保？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:28.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:55.672000+08:00","text":"其實我現在要問第二個比較敏感的問題，老實說，因為我們知道鄭麗君副院長風塵僕僕從美國趕回來，在記者會上面告訴全國人民談判成果豐碩，我們爭取到比日、韓更優惠的15%關稅且不疊加，還有兩千多項的零關稅優惠條件，但是現在我想明確請院長告訴我們，這兩千多項零關稅是否還依舊是零關稅？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:55.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:41:56.413000+08:00","text":"有沒有疊加的風險呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:41:57.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:42:24.003000+08:00","text":"部分品項是在美國現在第122條款沒有豁免的品項當中，所以我們要確保的就是已經談妥的協議，是不是照原來兩千七百多項關稅豁免的部分，我們能夠全數保留下來，對臺灣能夠繼續予以豁免，如此我們才能夠跟我們的競爭國家……因為其他國家也許對美的關稅原來是低的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:42:24.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:42:50.724000+08:00","text":"我現在問的問題跟剛剛莊委員所提有些相似，我們瞭解國際政治上守信的重要性，我們也支持臺灣遵守這個協議，但守信的前提是所謂的Reciprocal Tariff，我記得是條件一致、雙方對等，如果當初談定的條件是15%且不疊加，現在卻變成15%再加其他關稅，這還算是同一份協議嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:42:50.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:11.529000+08:00","text":"更何況美國大法官已經判定川普關稅違憲，賴總統也表示臺灣願意繼續遵守協議，這份誠意我們肯定，但是美國如果被判違憲之後，反而可以不受本來的協議約束，繼續加收關稅，院長，老實講這就不叫對等關稅，這叫做「我說了算」……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:11.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:17.192000+08:00","text":"所以我請問委員，是不是支持政府去向美國確保我們已經爭取到的？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:17.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:34.222000+08:00","text":"我現在要問的是如果要繼續執行這樣的協議，行政院要如何說服國人，美國是可以在任何狀況下向單方面改變協議，另一方卻必須無條件遵守，這樣立法院如何同意已經變調的協議呢？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:34.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:40.566000+08:00","text":"所以委員是不是也同意我剛剛所說的，希望政府去確保我們取得的15%且不疊加呢？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:40.566000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:41.566000+08:00","text":"委員是不是支持？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:40.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:44.108000+08:00","text":"我們是現在先去問這個法律基礎的問題，我只是想請院長回答。對！","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:44.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:43:48.971000+08:00","text":"如果委員支持我們這樣的做法，我們現在的做法就是向美國要求他……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:43:49.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:01.419000+08:00","text":"現在是在法律基礎上我們必須先確認，不然的話，我們現在談出來的任何事情，可能會因為一個念頭而去改變，這其實對臺灣談出來的結果是非常不利的……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:01.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:02.419000+08:00","text":"是，完全同意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:01.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:04.620000+08:00","text":"所以我想請院長回答我剛剛的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:05.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:09.901000+08:00","text":"這有兩個問題，委員應該支持我們現在的態度，爭取15%且不疊加這個協議繼續……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:09.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:13.962000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們現在已經到了一個死胡同，就是我們一直在說……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:13.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:14.962000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有、沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:14.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:30.107000+08:00","text":"我現在要問的是我們在這個法律基礎上面是不是穩定的，因為如果我們簽的協議法律基礎是不穩定的，這個協議嚴格講起來就很fragile、非常脆弱，我想請院長先跟我們確認一下，是否這個法律基礎是穩定的？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:30.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:31.107000+08:00","text":"在於美國現在不定性的情況之下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:30.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:43.558000+08:00","text":"所以我再次強調，我們在報告當中所提到的，美方政府正在研議後續的作為，完成後會通知包括我國在內已經簽署貿易協議的國家。好吧！至於……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:44.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:44:57.170000+08:00","text":"法律基礎是不是穩定，是美方政府正在努力的工作，不是我們去替美方說美國的法律……但就我們而言，我們是極力爭取、確保已經得到的最佳待遇，我們去爭取的這個態度，委員應該是支持政府這個態度。","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:44:58.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:45:00.494000+08:00","text":"所以美國說了算，所以這個……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:45:02.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:45:03.597000+08:00","text":"美國的法律當然美國說了算。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:45:04.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:45:08.743000+08:00","text":"所以以我們兩邊法律來看的話，現在這法律還是美國說了算的話，那我們就知道目前談判的態度……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:45:09.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:45:13.909000+08:00","text":"那個是美國的法律基礎在調整，不是我們在調整，是美國的法律基礎在調整。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:45:14.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:45:37.929000+08:00","text":"好，因為我時間也滿有限的，第三個問題也是我認為目前最迫切的，電子業、工具機、傳統產業、農漁產品、石化、汽車零組件，每一個產業受到的衝擊程度是不同的，成本轉嫁能力也不同，供應鏈的結構也截然不同，目前企業只能從新聞片段拼湊資訊，自行解讀協議內容，老實說這樣對於產業的發展是極大的傷害，對於整個經貿治理嚴格講起來也是不負責任的。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:45:37.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:46:10.565000+08:00","text":"因此，我們正式要求行政院責成經濟部、財政部、農業部等相關部會，針對各主要產業別儘速召開更多的公聽會，讓業者能夠清楚了解他們被影響的範圍、成本變動的情況、政府的配套措施以及補貼或協助機制，同時讓業者有機會能夠直接表達意見。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:46:11.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:46:18.927000+08:00","text":"我個人認為，經貿談判不能只有政府對政府，也必須有政府對產業的溝通與對話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:46:18.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:46:21.928000+08:00","text":"院長，針對召開公聽會這件事情……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:46:22.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:46:45.958000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，這個建議很好，我們已經在做，在去年對等關稅宣布、4月2號的前後，我們已經啟動並委託智庫來研究所有的影響評估，現在美國最高法院判決之後，我們也委託智庫來進行影響的分析，這個都有在做，而分析的結果我們會透過跟產業的關懷座談來跟產業做報告，這個部分請部長來說明。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:46:46.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:47:22.049000+08:00","text":"對，事實上座談會從4月2號開始，我們已經辦了幾十場的座談會，包括大大小小的，總統還有院長、還有我個人中南部不知道跑了多少次，除了這個之外，我們過年前在院長的指示下，還啟動了關懷電話，打了超過幾萬通的電話，公股銀行的部分則是有十幾、二十萬通，就是問他們在這個過程當中，政府是不是需要有更進一步的協助，有一些我們就會把它整理出來，需要什麼政府政策，我們就來加強這個部分，像委員這樣的……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:47:23.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:47:40.802000+08:00","text":"不好意思，部長、院長，我覺得目前來講，因為時空背景不同，國際關係、國際環境變化很快，所以這個公聽會可能要繼續辦，讓產業多多了解，因為現在狀況已經變成是沒有人可以猜到明天會發生什麼事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:47:40.802000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:47:41.802000+08:00","text":"會，關懷座談會會繼續辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:47:41.802000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:47:42.802000+08:00","text":"是，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:47:41.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:47:54.788000+08:00","text":"院長，我認為我們的立場其實很清楚，我們支持臺美合作，我們也支持臺灣的國際布局，但是我們要求制度要穩定、法律要清楚、產業要能安心、資訊要能透明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:47:55.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:03.730000+08:00","text":"因此我認為這四點，院長必須要給我們，不只是給我個人，也不只是給國民黨黨團，而是給全民一個回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:03.730000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:04.830000+08:00","text":"第一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:04.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:10.454000+08:00","text":"我希望委員再加上一點，就是支持現在政府向美方確保我們已經得到最佳利益的爭取……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:10.454000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:12.616000+08:00","text":"我先把四個問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:12.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:15.658000+08:00","text":"再增加一個，支持政府向美方確保我們已經得到的最佳利益。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:15.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:23.763000+08:00","text":"我們先把四個問題講清楚，因為我認為這四個問題也是全國人民都在關心的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:24.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:29.968000+08:00","text":"第一個，美國最高法院裁定違憲之後，臺美協議的效力依據為何？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:30.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:32.429000+08:00","text":"行政院是否已跟美方正式確認？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:33.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:39.736000+08:00","text":"第二個，原談判成果中，兩千多項的零關稅優惠目前是否依舊有效？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:40.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:43.140000+08:00","text":"是否已排除疊加風險？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:43.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:48.085000+08:00","text":"第三，行政院是否同意召開各產業別公聽會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:48.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:48:52.310000+08:00","text":"第四，行政院是否願意提出完整的產業衝擊影響評估報告，送立法院來審閱？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:48:56.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:49:07.985000+08:00","text":"我認為臺灣的產業界需要的不是口號，而是一個可預期、可依靠的制度環境，我認為這些東西也都是我們全民不分黨派大家都在期待的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:49:09.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:49:43.636000+08:00","text":"最後剩一點時間，雖然今天是所謂關稅的專案報告，但是目前全世界最大的新聞，就是前幾天美伊開戰，美伊開戰之後，本席在這邊要利用非常短的時間來請教院長跟部長，在伊朗發生戰爭、在經過4天之後，經濟部部長剛好在這邊，今天才要開召開能源會議，我想請問部長跟院長，因為這個有關國安危機，我們都知道能源危機就是國安危機，請問院長跟部長，我國的天然氣能源有25%來自卡達，請問現在的狀況是怎麼樣？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:49:47.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:50:01.624000+08:00","text":"我先說一下程序，戰爭發生之後的第一天，國安團隊已經向總統跟行政團隊提出說明，昨天我們已經召開了一次的會議，接下來是經濟部要啟動真正的緊急應變機制，他馬上要啟動。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:50:01.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:50:03.245000+08:00","text":"至於能源的分布情形是如何，我請部長說明。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:50:06.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:50:40.639000+08:00","text":"報告委員，依院長的指示，從今天開始，賴次長每天都會主持專案會議，以觀察情勢的變化；第二個，先跟您報告，我們先講3月份天然氣的部分，如果是前半個月，因為已經出了荷姆茲海峽，這個就沒有問題了，現在關心的是3月份下半個月的事情，跟委員報告，昨天同仁跟我講已經在其他市場上調到貨，所以3月份沒有問題。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:50:40.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:50:54.780000+08:00","text":"我們儘量可以做的部分是，4月份我們開始啟動了一些調貨，我們也不希望戰事拖到4月份，但是萬一拖到4月份的話，我們還是有一些因應措施，每天都會做因應。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:50:56.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:02.929000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，因為這個戰爭目前各方眾說紛紜，有的說4週、有的說4年，所以完全非常不一樣。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:02.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:06.192000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們現在準備好，最少、最少3月份的問題已經解決了。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:06.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:08.814000+08:00","text":"所以未來有沒有可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:09.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:13.457000+08:00","text":"應該在短期之間不會因為天然氣不足而有限電的問題吧？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:14.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:15.538000+08:00","text":"不會，絕對不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:15.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:17.059000+08:00","text":"大概到幾月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:17.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:37.870000+08:00","text":"報告委員，現在我們以程序上來講，第一個，您剛才講天然氣，我們把3月份的來源先確保了，因為以目前來講，天然氣的部分主要還是用來發電；如果是電力的部分，因為現在還有一些備用機組，就是非天然氣的備用機組，隨時可以備用。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:38.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:44.273000+08:00","text":"接下來有兩個末節的問題，但卻是全國都很關心的，就是有沒有可能造成電價上漲？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:44.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:47.215000+08:00","text":"是不是會全面啟動煤炭發電呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:47.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:57.240000+08:00","text":"因為電價還是要回歸到電價審議會，我們也希望這個事件都是在短暫的時間內，或是一個階段性而已，這樣就比較不會對電價產生影響。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:51:57.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:51:59.441000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能造成電價上漲？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:01.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:06.575000+08:00","text":"我們還是要觀察目前的情況，因為決定權還是在審議委員會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:06.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:07.575000+08:00","text":"好，在審議委員會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:07.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:08.575000+08:00","text":"對，我們還是希望……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:08.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:11.518000+08:00","text":"是不是會因為這個事情而打算全面開啟煤炭發電呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:11.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:12.218000+08:00","text":"那個是最後手段。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:16.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:19.698000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們LNG還是有安全的存量……對。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:20.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:33.665000+08:00","text":"而剛剛部長所報告的是，3月份進來的LNG量沒有任何影響，經過我們緊急調度資源之後，3月份的來源是沒有影響，但我們還是會有一定的安全存量，所以現在在這個基礎之下，我們還有比較充裕的時間可以繼續去做多元的市場、去做各種不同的努力，我們一定會做到這一點。","quality":0.451},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:33.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:49.154000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。謝謝。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:49.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:50.436000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-03T09:52:50.936000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-03T09:52:54.078857+08:00","text":"接下來請洪毓祥委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}