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16:50:23","會議時間":"2026-03-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第1次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告並備質詢（2月24日下午）。二、行政院院長提出臺美關稅談判結果及其影響專案報告並備質詢（3月3日）。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.31721875,"end":7.709093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.265968750000003,"end":9.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.09971875,"end":19.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.77471875,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.01346875,"end":83.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.54534375,"end":127.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.58909375,"end":188.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.09846875000002,"end":194.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.85284375,"end":196.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.60784375,"end":199.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.62846875000002,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.63596875000002,"end":206.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.47534375,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.61846875,"end":214.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.54221875000002,"end":212.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.32221875000002,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.74409375000002,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.89159375000003,"end":221.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.21159375000002,"end":237.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.74659375000002,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.79721875,"end":226.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.39909375000002,"end":264.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.45784375000002,"end":238.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.53159375,"end":255.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.55221875,"end":255.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.83471875000004,"end":259.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.73284375000003,"end":261.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.08659375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.68846875,"end":275.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.39721875000004,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.33346875,"end":278.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.54346875000005,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.95221875000004,"end":290.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.65596875,"end":293.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.67284375,"end":293.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.68971875,"end":300.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.90909375,"end":298.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.04721875,"end":302.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.21596875,"end":305.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.44784375,"end":302.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.98346875000004,"end":307.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.24471875,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.58159375,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.23096875000005,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.16659375,"end":347.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.14534375,"end":350.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.86221875,"end":382.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.53659375,"end":410.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.73471875,"end":424.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.12909375000004,"end":453.96846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.25346875,"end":442.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.91409375,"end":454.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.96846875000006,"end":455.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.03596875000005,"end":457.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.74034375,"end":462.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.45721875000004,"end":458.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.42284375,"end":465.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.57846875,"end":470.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.30346875000004,"end":473.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.74596875000003,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.07034375,"end":491.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.17909375000005,"end":485.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.55409375000005,"end":488.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.50721875000005,"end":493.16909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.16909375000006,"end":509.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.28721875,"end":493.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.25221875000005,"end":501.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.28596875000005,"end":501.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.724718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我們請卓榮泰卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":19.193,"end":47.188,"text":"徐委員好主委長好主委長這段時間以來因為行政院一直以這個我們這次談判的一個重大突破跟強調它的成果跟紅利那但是呢當然針對這個部分的話政策的評價我想不是只有我們自己的大內宣應該還要回歸到我們這個雙方的這個條文本身是不是權利義務能夠對等還有風險是不是可以控管"},{"start":47.947,"end":73.457,"text":"因為其實我們看到這49頁的文本ART這49頁的文本我們可以看到其中有很多呈現的不是單純的這個關稅互惠而是多項足以影響我國主權的這個政策彈性的安排那許多條款在過去的經貿條款談判中也確實鮮少見到首先的話我們先來談談這個國防的部分"},{"start":74.076,"end":101.234,"text":"因為第五點四條我們可以看到第三項會將國防的年度預算應高於GDP的3%納入我們協議的文本那國防的預算本來就應該依照我們的安全情勢財政狀況跟我們國會審議的一個決定但是現在是透過貿易協定的方式予以拘束也限縮了我們未來政府的一個財政的一個編列的彈性跟我們立法監督的一個空間"},{"start":102.253,"end":107.571,"text":"那我們來看一下3%的GDP大概如果看起來大概至少要新台幣8500億元"},{"start":109.659,"end":132.837,"text":"那我們可以看一下我們115年度的這個軍事預算的組成因為我們用的是歐盟的這個計算方式所以我們可以看到包括國防部以及三項特別預算的退伏會海巡署跟非營業特種基金大概是9495億那未來美國如果不同意用歐盟的計算方式的話我們可能要扣掉退伏會的1064億"},{"start":134.585,"end":163.841,"text":"那還有包括新式戰機跟海空戰力提升這兩項因為今年就會執行完畢在扣掉這兩項之後大概有7只剩7700億左右那也就是說我們的公務預算未來還要再增加800億元才能夠達到8500億的規模所以想要編列到3%的GDP也勢必會影響到不管是教育啊社福啊或者是這個農業經濟以及基礎建設的這個資源喔所以要"},{"start":164.625,"end":186.471,"text":"那也讓我們這些年度預算是會受到外部的一個作用那也會削弱我們立法院審議跟這個財政自主的本身喔那所以國防支出喔應該是要依照我們的戰略需求跟財政能力來做一個彈性的調整但是像這樣子在商務協議中被寫死喔那放在商務的這個協議裡合理嗎"},{"start":189.344,"end":214.736,"text":"我剛剛看到文字的內容也應該清楚的看到它是TECO跟AIT宣誓一致這個宣誓一致表示我們是已經達到了我們已經達到了 所以我們宣誓說我們已經達到了3%因為94 95這個數字已經達到了3.32我們已經達到了 只是宣誓說未來會達到嗎未來我想隨著國家財政的能力跟國防的需求"},{"start":215.811,"end":231.989,"text":"對百分之三再往上增加看看我們的需求有多少我們的能力的支銷多少那因為你現在在協議文本裡面是寫寫清楚就是要至少要三趴嘛對不對對那未來如果沒有辦法達到是不是就本先說我們自己的一個財政的一個編列"},{"start":232.609,"end":261.701,"text":"國防支出的財政編列的一個能力那我們接下來再看一下我是不是跟委員做一點點補充因為這個條文其實它展明是一個我們談判前已經發生的事實也就是我國賴清德總統在去年的3月就已經宣示了這樣的一個國防預算的目標那談判是4月以後才開始的所以這個條文是一個展明我國已經總統宣示的一個目標跟事實所以未來也是會這樣子嗎沒有 這只是一個說跟我們所宣布的目標"},{"start":262.882,"end":272.575,"text":"這樣的一個事實宰民在條文裡面那如果說剛剛我提到這樣一個狀況勢必可能也會有些排擠到其他預算的一個狀況的時候那我們要怎麼樣來去因應排擠"},{"start":275.595,"end":295.643,"text":"報告委員 我們目前的確我們的國防預算就已經是朝這個目標在編列我們已經也向特別條例送到大院我們也希望 懇請大院能夠支持我們國防的特別條例就是我剛剛提到這個部分我是覺得那至於為什麼要在這個經貿所以這個是基於國家的 國防安全的目標對 那為什麼要在經貿的協議當中就加上這個 加上我們的這個國防的預算"},{"start":301.604,"end":309.551,"text":"這個是一個宰民事實我想這個只是表達說目前世界各國沒有這樣子我國自己已經有這樣的一個目標"},{"start":310.609,"end":338.985,"text":"另外我再請教一下就是在這個第五點一條裡面當美國以經濟安全為由制裁某國時台灣收到通知後必須要跟緊所以我們可以看到就是這樣的做法等於將我國是否對第三方採取貿易制裁的這個決策跟美方行動是綁定而且根據這個條款的話現在美國一直講說要制裁歐盟那如果他制裁歐盟的話我們也要跟進嗎"},{"start":340.287,"end":348.442,"text":"好這個我想在條文裡有這樣子的一個狀況那另外呢我再請院長看一下下面這張表就是針對台灣這個第五"},{"start":351.605,"end":379.112,"text":"我們這個協議裡面的5.2條第三項台灣的出口管制要跟美國的這個FDPR保持一致那未來美國的商務部如果他隨時修改這個規則那我們台灣也必須要自動跟進那未來如果損擊到台積電或是其他半導體大廠的重大利益時我們就沒有說部的權利只能當美國法律的這個執行窗口對台灣的廠商也非常的不公平那另外呢我們也可以看到"},{"start":379.571,"end":405.019,"text":"在這個3.2條的第三項就是有關醫藥主權就是未來只要經過美國FDA許可的我們就可以作為藥品在台上市那事實上我們都知道東方人跟西方人不管在基因在代謝上有所差異這個是醫學常識那現在美國FDA如果通過核准的就可以在台灣上市而不需要經過這個人體的試驗或任何臨床試驗的話"},{"start":408.24,"end":423.388,"text":"未來如果發生這樣子的一個這個爭議的話FDA會負責嗎尤其是過去在美國我們也曾經出過在美國通過卻在亞洲引發致命心律不整的這樣的一個案例那未來這樣的一個狀況的話誰要負責跟委員報告其實在這次談判中美國是對各國在談判那美國對許多國家都有提供ART這樣的一個這個各個條文的framework一起談"},{"start":435.655,"end":465.301,"text":"但是所以其实很多条件你可以比较各国所谈出来的也就是说各国都会放弃这样的健康主权吗在FDA的部分其实是FDA所许可作为我方审查的一个充分证据所以我方仍然保有相关的一个所以未来还是可以有人体试验还是可以有临床试验是吗那这个我们请部长可以来进一步说明跟委员说明这个美方跟我们的产品之间其实它是有区隔性所以我们它进来的大概都是比较高阶的"},{"start":465.711,"end":489.377,"text":"那麼在為了讓這個加速審查其實我們早就有一些加速審查的機制對於過去在一些我們認可的國家像FDA美國FDA或者是日本歐盟我現在就是要代表大家就是事宜的部分就是說未來是不是就是美國FDA這上市的就是最後到我們國家來我們還是可以我們還是可以經過人體實驗跟臨床實驗是嗎"},{"start":493.238,"end":519.326,"text":"我覺得這個部分對我們國人的健康安全非常的重要尤其是東西方人種的差異我們也希望說在這邊不要造成大家的誤解而是讓大家能夠知道針對這樣子的健康主權我們是有所堅持的絕對不會拿國人的健康開玩笑有兩重一個是它要符合美國FDA第二個是它作為我們充分的證據但是我方還是有一個審驗的程序持續進行那委員官卻那幾項衛福部都會持續把關"},{"start":519.966,"end":543.064,"text":"然後另外我們再看看第4.1條跟第4.4條就是全世界都在討論如何對Google Meta這些數位科技巨頭課稅然後我們在協議裡就是承諾不課徵數位服務稅甚至不能要求查閱原始碼那院長請問一下這樣的做法是不是犧牲我們的數位的主權那這樣子對於我們原來的稅收會犧牲多少呢"},{"start":544.395,"end":560.018,"text":"目前我國本來就沒有存在數位貿易稅世界各國都在討論嗎那你這是未來的趨勢我國本來現在就沒有對跨境平台徵收數位貿易稅那如果他涉及的話我們一般的像加值型營業稅或者是所得稅這些都還是有的"},{"start":560.939,"end":579.513,"text":"那現在是全世界都在討論嘛那為什麼我們要在條文裡就把它就是要求說不可以課徵數位封存所以我們陳述的是一個目前我們沒有這樣的一個對 那未來也不會有因為我們已經簽訂這樣子的一個條文那這一次在數位貿易裡面我想雙方很重要也達成這個"},{"start":580.994,"end":601.889,"text":"我們的這個邊境的自由傳輸那麼以及對於自由傳輸不課稅那最重要在資安安全上面的這個合作那我想台灣跟美國我們是自由民主的國家在數位貿易跟數位安全上面的合作其實是有它的一個重要性但是因為在這樣的條文裡我們就是未來是不可以對他們課徵這個數位服務稅"},{"start":603.55,"end":631.902,"text":"那未來如果當世界的趨勢做一個轉變我們必須做這樣的改變的時候那因為簽訂了這個ART之後我們就沒有辦法來跟他們課徵這樣子的一個稅收這樣是不是合理那因為全世界其實都在討論這樣的一個事情那另外呢我們也可以看到就這個部分的話除了這個部分我們大家國人非常關心的就是食安的問題那因為院長也常常講到說食安是政府的底線"},{"start":632.842,"end":661.634,"text":"所以從這份協議看起來其實政府顯然對於食安的這個問題做了一些的這個退縮我們首先先看到不好意思那可能這個部長可能可以我們現在要討論這個食安的問題我們可以看到就是現在我們針對這樣的我們針對有關不管是美豬美牛我們都做了一些退讓包括殘留標準我們不可以制定更"},{"start":662.459,"end":677.508,"text":"嚴格的一個規範所以我們現在是要跟Codex一致那另外呢還有就內臟部位的安排那我們可以看到就是說因為國人的這個飲食習慣跟西方人不同那這個殘留這個這對萊克多巴胺的殘留的這個"},{"start":679.157,"end":702.535,"text":"容許量我們把它放寬之後還有這個內臟的這個部位進口變多之後還有這個萊劑的部分我們都其實國人都非常擔心尤其是這個做業者的婦女或者是一些老人家或是學童那針對這樣的部分的話為什麼過去我們一直說這樣子是不行的它包括這個水解步驟恐怕我們現在也禁止採用水解步驟"},{"start":703.083,"end":714.164,"text":"因為會這個降低來季的檢出率那針對美豬的部分我們不能百分之百的這個要終止百分之百的"},{"start":715.221,"end":734.066,"text":"P的檢測那對美牛也要這個終止竹香的查驗等等這個都讓我們覺得針對食安的部分事實上尤其是美豬美牛來豬來牛對我們國人健康都會造成很大的一個影響那請問一下針對這個部分我們有什麼樣子的的說法"},{"start":735.738,"end":750.471,"text":"跟委員說明在食安的部分我們是嚴格把關這個原則是不變的但是我們跟國際接軌所以我們現在重新再去檢視我們對於特別是萊克多巴胺的殘留量跟CODES也就是所謂國際標準的"},{"start":752.253,"end":767.92,"text":"食品這個法典委員會所公布的標準我們重新評估同時也在去年我們已經完成了國人根據國人的飲食習慣所做的健康風險評估之後那麼認為可接受那所以我們現在呢重新調整的"},{"start":768.52,"end":787.098,"text":"標準除了跟Codex是一致之外也跟日本、韓國、新加坡是一致的那現在我們放棄了就百分之百的這個主批茶宴跟主香茶宴這個部分是不是會造成更多的輸入的管理我們從源頭包含茶廠包含系統性茶宴這個都還是照做的"},{"start":787.498,"end":811.648,"text":"那另外在這個條文他規範的是什麼補充補長就是說我們的這個在四大不變就是民間品項維持不變原產地標示不變校園優先採購國產不變以及食安管理機制不變就是源頭邊境後市場管理機制不變那原來因為他是不能進來的品項所以採用竹箱竹坯"},{"start":812.888,"end":831.489,"text":"那現在我們要回歸一般的我們的邊境的查驗所以我們還是有邊境查驗的程序所以我想這個部分就是剛剛部長講的這個部分我想部長在這個源頭邊境因為源頭就去茶廠系統性茶盒那為什麼要放棄像以前這樣百分之百的這個豬批查驗為什麼"},{"start":831.889,"end":860.93,"text":"因為就是回歸我們的既有的常態性的管理只是說我們常態性的管理的法規它沒有說一定要完全採明在我們的協議裡面但是在法規裡面都有其實也要代表我想所有全國的父母都非常擔心未來這樣子不管萊豬 藍牛會不會進入到這個營養午餐會不會進入到校園還有基改食品是會進入校園基改不會進入校園這個部分是大家現在非常擔心的疑慮因為很多的萊豬 藍牛它因為你的這個"},{"start":862.01,"end":890.57,"text":"放寬這個檢驗標準之後他可能就會利用其他的形式進來這是我們現在我想家長都非常擔心的郭文貴議員報告我們現在改變的這個標準跟國際接軌主要是在內臟肝腎的部分那肝腎在國內的使用量進口的佔量是非常非常低都在1%左右而已最後我想我要這個提出三點的這個嚴正的要求"},{"start":891.155,"end":915.592,"text":"第一個就是要盡速送立法院實質的審議因為過去這個政府院長在擔任委員的時候也有特別說要拒絕行政獨裁那另外還有拒絕黑箱作業我們也是要落實政府院長當年主張要公開透明第三個我們也希望能夠盡速的提出產業的衝擊評估報告不可以拿這個台灣的主權"},{"start":916.497,"end":923.121,"text":"跟國人健康為犧牲所以在這邊也要特別的要求希望我們能夠落實這三樣的要求"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}