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想請問部長您自己"},{"start":153.041,"end":170.657,"text":"滿意嗎委員我跟您報告我們從今年元月1月1號開始上路到2月1月到2月的數字目前總共有2700多人申請單日請的育嬰留庭然後總共有大概5200多個申請案"},{"start":174.58,"end":202.869,"text":"不是你剛才說的數字在兩個月前我講的是你過去兩年你剛不是說你有一些配套沒做好嗎不是我現在在說的是從今年的1月1號正式可以以日請因為前面的之前的事辦其實是要契約主動願意的可是我們在去今年的1月1號的正式上路是就是說只要勞工有提出雇主是不能拒絕的"},{"start":203.729,"end":212.016,"text":"好,我希望之後我們可以看到你的成果,我們也會在委員會繼續的講我現在,我現在在問問我先回顧一下,我回顧一下這個是我們在委員會,因為這個是執政黨委員對您的comment他之前在評論您的事辦計畫,他是這樣子說的當然他講了20分鐘,我簡短的播一下"},{"start":233.904,"end":250.436,"text":"計畫註定要失敗因為一開始就沒有人主動要參加本來你叫大家去辦這個示範計畫就註定要失敗了結果你就不要你通通都叫示範計畫也不願意照民間的版本去示範出來然後看他的彈性到底有沒有可行結果你一意孤行那註定到的是失敗啊"},{"start":250.936,"end":268.772,"text":"第一個這個數據出來我其實當然非常不滿意啊其實我認為這個數據...部長他本來就是做一個故意會失敗的計畫我們都知道故意你一個方案一定會失敗然後告訴大家說台南市民運營價不可行他們當時就是這樣先這個預設的立場要讓它失敗當然不可行啊"},{"start":270.612,"end":294.5,"text":"那個委員你可以看一下那個時間點是2024年的12月18號我知道我剛剛不是一直在問你過去兩年嗎這個政策的推動本來就需要一點時間事辦也需要時間嘛好我現在想說少子化這個危機很多縣市首長都看到了所以蔣萬安市長他最近推出一個育兒減少工時的計畫他看到很多家長的需求啊"},{"start":295.02,"end":320.343,"text":"那我這邊先說衛福部他的comment是樂觀其成因為協助育嬰爸媽有更彈性的時間那您剛剛被林淑芬委員講的這個事辦計劃你現在是批評蔣國安市長政策是象徵性事辦我想請問部長您的標準到底在哪裡跟委員說明你應該把我整段話給看完"},{"start":320.95,"end":342.047,"text":"我的意思很簡單是任何一個政策需要把相關的配套措施給做好比方說我們在去年九月推出的單日型的彈性暈暈流停也是因為醞釀了這個把配套一段一段的給做到位所以到今年的頭兩個月才有這樣的成績所以我這段話"},{"start":343.228,"end":372.354,"text":"你自己這個示範計畫做了兩年內你也發現所有的政策從上路到開始推到真正落實本來就有很長的準備時間那衛福部認同你卻要開始講說這個是象徵新示範我只想問你一句話我想問你台北市率先推出這樣子方便爸爸媽媽的做法您精神上支不支持我等一下會舉出很多配套我們也可以討論很多配套"},{"start":372.674,"end":387.509,"text":"回我完整的說法我認為你應該要把我完整的說法就是今天地方政府願意這樣做嘗試我們當然是正面看待的很好我的一句話前面說的意思是如果配套不夠完善的話"},{"start":388.57,"end":408.042,"text":"不希望落入象徵性事辦所以我的意思是大家應該要一起來思考怎麼把配套做得更完善讓它更可行其實你就講你正面看待對啊 以你勞動部部長的高度你剛剛就說得很好啊你可以講說我正面看待但是配套如何做我們中央地方一起來協力所以我今天"},{"start":410.083,"end":438.491,"text":"今天要準備的資料其實就是把世界各國的東西拿出來因為院長知道嘛 現在我們很急迫可是很多國家其實都做得非常成熟了我覺得我們可以直接考慮是不是我們應用一些成熟國家的做法嘛好 我們現在來看一下其實你剛剛講的那些配套當時可能有人說可能會標籤化或者是說同事之間會曝光抱怨 歧視 主管 靠關係等等的"},{"start":439.131,"end":466.803,"text":"這些在英國、歐盟、澳洲、荷蘭他們都已經整個把它法制化了它是一個法定的權利所以有沒有小朋友或者是有的是一般員工到職有需求就可以提出雇主在期限內按照程序處理有合理理由才可以拒絕用機制來降低不確定性並且你在這個地方如果你覺得未來工作是有彈性的你剛好有伴侶你也可以趁機來規劃未來嘛"},{"start":468.484,"end":484.756,"text":"那再來我就要講跟我們一樣面臨少子化國家的新加坡跟日本他怎麼做呢新加坡他在疫情後他發現這個彈性工時的企業因為他們去導入work life grant所以發放補助金支持企業"},{"start":485.677,"end":505.877,"text":"他從52%爬升到72%那他也發現這些員工的滿意度留任生產力有正面的效果你剛說的配套新加坡也有想到所以並不是所有的產業都適用有符合這個特質他們才會做但是有做的滿意度都很高那我再講到日本"},{"start":506.477,"end":520.893,"text":"日本呢他們在疫情後雖然遠距工作有下降可是現在是穩定的持平維持在一個程度所以他們發現說只要他們去補貼企業改造制度設備的成本那企業就可以"},{"start":521.394,"end":537.254,"text":"去照顧這些有育兒或是照顧高齡長者需求的工作型態來連動調整所以去年這邊要跟院長報告2025年10月開始日本對於家裡有3歲到就學前的小朋友"},{"start":537.895,"end":567.262,"text":"他規定這個企業要從五種多元方案裡選擇至少兩種出來提供裡面就包括蔣萬事長現在提出的比如說調整上下班時間縮短工時每個月至少十天用遠距如果你這個公司是可以用遠距上班的月額支援休假以及托育設施等等那在這邊我是想請院長責成部長大概多久以內可以評估這樣子的報告出來來研擬中央法規的配套"},{"start":567.882,"end":580.748,"text":"是謝謝委員跟委員報告這種彈性減少工時都是一種可嘗試性的一個工作我們往這個方向來講勞動部已經在做那目前地方政府做的呢我更希望他能夠在勞工端"},{"start":584.531,"end":609.493,"text":"還有就是植物代理人這一方面還有就是企業端三方面都能夠完整因為越小的公司這種彈性減少工時它所產生的工作力的減少跟變動是最為明顯的所以要想好這些配套部長的意思就是這樣子我已經幫你找好資料了那當然部長那邊也有很棒的研究所台北市政府要想好這些配套"},{"start":609.953,"end":624.741,"text":"對我有幫你找好資料所以在國外他雇主也可以在法定期限內按程序處理或是有合理的理由來拒絕這邊我都幫你找好資料了之後如果歡迎勞動部您的聯絡人也可以來跟我跟我討論好嗎"},{"start":627.272,"end":653.535,"text":"其實我可以直接回答委員我覺得各種讓工作的時間跟職堂能夠更有彈性然後把這個來包容或兼顧這個工作跟照顧小孩的方法我想我們都願意綜合的來做思考可是一樣重點關鍵我們在這幾年的嘗試下我們認為關鍵其實的確是在於配套的完善與否"},{"start":654.384,"end":672.643,"text":"這是我原話最重要的點所以我完全不是在批評地方政府或者說風涼話我覺得不要誤會我也沒有這樣子的用意那大概多久以內我們可以出一個研擬報告我剛剛這最後的問句是院長責成部長多久之內可以去朝你這樣中央法規的配套"},{"start":674.779,"end":691.415,"text":"這個勞動部的那個彈性工時報告他剛剛已經有這兩三個月執行的報告那我們應該有一段時間報告的內容這個基準數才會準確我們才來做檢討好 謝謝部長您可以回座 謝謝部長接下來請衛福部部長"},{"start":693.625,"end":714.732,"text":"麻煩請衛福部長備詢部長一邊上台的時候我先播放給院長看一段影片現在台灣常常在網路上開始大戰雁同你應該知道有一些店家他是標榜他不接待兒童並且他還會大獲好評有的時候會在地圖上變成他行銷的環節可是看到這個我是非常的擔心"},{"start":716.092,"end":735.288,"text":"有网友更在Google地图共同整理大人友善清单表示要大力支持不接待小孩的店家这些场所包含西餐厅、咖啡厅、宠物餐厅都是最常有小朋友的行为被放到社群公开讨论的场所是家长管教不积极还是我们的社会逐渐厌痛"},{"start":739.774,"end":758.622,"text":"這邊很簡單快速帶過一些數據但是院長應該一目了然根據這個兒童的統計民眾的驗童程度大概會在六成從輕度到重度那認為應該限制孩童進入的地點包括餐廳大眾運輸或是咖啡廳家長也感受到非常大的壓力所以百分之"},{"start":759.622,"end":786.23,"text":"60左右的家長他會覺得他出去的時候極不友善那不友善的行為這個網路上都有最近在新聞上常常被播出來就包括被偷拍啊 公審或是直接被虛被白眼被趕下車廂等等等等的那我覺得對於目前我們這個國安危機小子化只會越來越嚴重因為一般大眾討厭噪音的跟家長他出門害怕被噴"},{"start":787.19,"end":808.437,"text":"以至於他就是很難帶出門很難生小孩那這邊呢我是要給院長很具體的建議因為問題並不是我們希望全國每一個角落都適合嬰幼兒而是我們希望借盡外國的經驗我們希望在城市裡面提供分流的設計來降低衝突"},{"start":808.957,"end":823.727,"text":"那這些可以從有一些這個國家的公用機關開始做比如說車站醫院圖書館政府場館等等他會有親子的安撫角落或是站離的產息區讓你安撫好你的小朋友然後我們再回到大眾的場域"},{"start":825.448,"end":851.099,"text":"這邊舉幾個案例像這些是機場裡面的這個Calm Room讓他安撫下來或者是像芬蘭的火車上他就直接會有親子的車廂那這邊我也會稱讚我們衛福部或是行政院我們現在也許哺乳室或者是無障礙廁所多功能室我們一到某一個場域我們會有標示我們會找得到我們會知道這個地方有沒有可是像這樣子親子友善的空間"},{"start":852.099,"end":868.589,"text":"他沒有被當成一個公共服務來推動沒有被標準化密度也沒有規劃沒有導引沒有維持也沒有民眾可用性所以他會變成想做的人會自發性去做可是沒有的地方就不知道那家長也不知道要到哪裡去找"},{"start":869.669,"end":897.017,"text":"這邊呢我要跟院長報告日韓已經開始超車了韓國2024年谷底反彈生育率回升了他們現在今年生育率又到0.8當然很多配套住宅或者是這個津貼這些我們也都有在努力追上但是友善職場跟友善公共空間是他們值得我們借鏡的他們會利用企業的誘因還有數位整合我們舉一些比較直觀的"},{"start":898.757,"end":917.57,"text":"韓國之前的驗童是比台灣還要嚴重他們曾經爆發非常多的衝突所以政府很積極在解決他們推動這樣子的認證的標章跟貼紙貼在店家前面並且跟他們民眾最常用的地圖去做結合可是當然這件事也不是毫無補充"},{"start":918.511,"end":941.953,"text":"所以根據你的場域他會給予30萬韓元的補助更大就是40萬韓元他讓你去購買這些兒童會用到的產品或者是你可以付保費假使兒童在這個場域受傷那這個韓國市佔率最高的民間地圖他就跟他無縫接軌的串聯所以等於是政府用全國的力量去幫他保護精準的課員"},{"start":943.374,"end":967.579,"text":"那再來這個日本熊本熊的標章他就是支援全國的育兒照護事業然後嬰兒休息站等等他去調查如果你這個地方願意提供熱水泡奶點心嬰兒友善停車的遊戲哺乳室等等我們就幫你把它登入全國共通的官方搜尋或者是APP也會直接發放數十萬元不等的補助款"},{"start":968.823,"end":997.321,"text":"那具體我們來看看台灣現在做了什麼剛那個新聞讓我很擔心的就是我們已經有了不要小孩的地圖但是這些爸媽只能自己靠自己他們互相自救他們現在在社群裡面無私的投稿分享有哪些景點哪些餐廳有提供友善兒童的做法然後變成台灣人自己自治自救的友善地圖這個本來是政府應該要做的事情"},{"start":997.981,"end":1018.069,"text":"所以這邊具體的本席提供四件事情四個建議我希望院長可以答覆第一剛剛我們已經跟勞動部長說了我們希望讓父母縮短工時有配套直接變成大家都可以使用的彈性工時制度這個需要兩到三個月來研議讓所有人可以受惠的可能"},{"start":1018.709,"end":1040.13,"text":"第二個我覺得院長應該可以直接做到請院長通令發函那希望我也可以有副本所有的政府機關立刻去盤點我們的公共空間給孩子一些分流還有安撫的地方並且要讓民眾在手機上可以查詢預測可以使用像這樣子的決心不知道院長可不可以表達"},{"start":1041.189,"end":1068.754,"text":"我這個建議相當的完整我覺得完全拒絕跟可能家長放任這個都是極端這是極端的例子還是有但是整個社會不應該有那麼強烈的厭同尤其是我們這個少子化的時代但是政府該做的就是讓想要在一個地方能夠安安心心的自己跟他的小孩有一個親子活動的空間我們可以提供他一個可以知道哪裡找到這些訊息的我們衛部做了很多這樣的"},{"start":1069.454,"end":1087.648,"text":"好像這次在過年也做了很多在手機上找到這個訊息我們用這樣的經驗我覺得我們可以全國來做一個大調查所以您一個月內可以發函給這些所有的政府機關去盤點他們的場域有沒有辦法提供這個服務如果是政府機關我很快就可以處理很快就可以 謝謝院長第三點我們過去也針對這個身障者也有去創造這樣的一些"},{"start":1094.608,"end":1113.457,"text":"盤點然後做APP讓這個身上朋友要就醫的時候可以查詢那剛剛委員這個建議我覺得是非常好把我們過去從這個友善生育再轉換成友善孩子的環境那我們來一起推動那我們第一步先來盤點後面看看如何來做一些"},{"start":1114.085,"end":1137.063,"text":"指引跟輔導來建立一個友善孩子的空間第三點也很需要院長的幫忙因為你看到他們是有官方的認證跟標章不管你是貼紙或者是你是數位的認證所以他是用公部門的資源去幫店家導客跟曝光讓願意做的人看到我可能有補貼而且我還會獲得認證我對親子友善是好處的"},{"start":1140.666,"end":1157.865,"text":"那我們現在有世界無敵宇宙爆炸牆的速發部對於速發部而言是不是應該是很簡單的我們是不是院長跟速發部部長可以承諾去研發去做這樣子的認證跟地圖因為這兩點是日韓現在做得非常的積極"},{"start":1159.008,"end":1181.757,"text":"既然這個方向第二點的方向大家都認同來做的話那這個部分應該先要有一個執行的一個標準甚至一個未來鑑定的一個流程認定它所以我們先把這些作業做起來那來準備看怎麼樣讓這個場域能夠有一個明顯的標示能夠得到更多在這個行動上支持它的地方"},{"start":1181.977,"end":1206.783,"text":"好第四個因為以上我剛所述的真的是跨部會的責任就從勞動部一直到衛福部可能到抒發部等等的具體要求的院長是不是只是我們政委來協助推動因為很快也許你們又會推動小子化計畫或綱領能不能明確的加入新的一項的指標也就是友善嬰兒友善兒童的環境請院長承諾"},{"start":1210.435,"end":1212.498,"text":"在我們現在在這個少子女化2.0的行動計畫裡面其實有在"},{"start":1220.188,"end":1243.688,"text":"推動相關的友善職場那剛剛提到的就是這個友善環境更大我們過去有推動過這個高齡友善環境高齡友善城市那我們可以用過去的這個經驗我們來研究把這個友善這個孩子友善兒童的這個環境也來照過去的模式來推動所以您也會在多久以內給我報告"},{"start":1244.384,"end":1261.229,"text":"我們來這個研議一下給委員一個報告多久三個月內好 三個月蘇發部長您可以先休息一下那接下來我們請衛福部長再留步最近部長您常在媒體上講到推動這個健康病本席也很支持"},{"start":1262.551,"end":1282.128,"text":"好但是呢這個APP我不知道你自己有沒有使用過這個有幾個問題我想問你這個APP花了900萬開發900萬然後我幫你統計了一下下載量只有500次每天下載的次數是5次操作你操作過了嗎"},{"start":1283.486,"end":1309.411,"text":"跟委員報告 我們講的健康幣不是這個APP啦這個是你在媒體上講的 你說你未來想委託不是這個APP 應該是說我們是透過我們健康存摺那未來我們會導入 第一步就是預防保健包含打疫苗啦 癌篩啦 成人健檢啦然後會在健康存摺裡面去轉換成健康幣"},{"start":1310.311,"end":1329.88,"text":"然後這一個要做轉型這個是之前國建署開發的那我們這個叫轉型變成一個這個offline的這個chain來專門做兌換我先播一段影片給你看你會很震驚因為我知道你有在用穿戴式的運動設備你看一下這個APP怎麼用"},{"start":1330.851,"end":1353.961,"text":"你每天喝多少水是要自己輸入的所以你自己要統計再來你運動也要自己輸入你可能先看你其他的運動APP再把它輸回來我跑了幾步最後更誇張的是現在很多營養學的APP是拍照就已經告訴你蛋白質多少澱粉多少這個是要自己輸的"},{"start":1354.801,"end":1365.234,"text":"跟委員報告這個APP我非常不滿意啦你花九百萬了喔所以才要求它轉型這個是國建署之前開發的所以你九百萬丟到水裡啦不會不會這個未來您會很滿意"},{"start":1368.993,"end":1389.527,"text":"那你九百萬做了什麼 我看到的是這樣而且昨天我請我助理也去下載喔我說我認為難用 你們是不是認為難用你知道他現在在雙平台都下架了嗎因為我們在做這個轉型當中因為我就是覺得他很不好用這個跟我們現在的期待差太遠所以我們在做轉型"},{"start":1390.049,"end":1412.455,"text":"院長他花了900萬做出一個電子記事本然後每天要自己輸入步數自己計算蛋白質你覺得合理嗎現在很多的穿戴裝置都非常的實用便利所以剛剛委員不應該把林部長請下去如果蘇發部長在這裡的話我等一下蘇發部還會再上來我只是想要告訴院長還有部長錢不是這樣子亂花的"},{"start":1419.297,"end":1437.565,"text":"900萬開發了一個500元下載現在還不知道多少人已經把它刪掉了再來我對於健康幣的質詢不管是在委員會或者因為剛好是遇到次長次長沒有那麼熟悉後來我就直接再發函院長我很認真我所知寫了三頁"},{"start":1438.425,"end":1466.078,"text":"三頁整整問他說這個點數你想要怎麼計算如果針對一些高風險族群你要不要加權那你有沒有上限我問了非常多的問題結果部長回我一頁他那一頁上面就寫比他新聞採訪還少的內容他寫說促進健康預防逆轉疾病的目標就這樣但是你在新聞說你四月健康必要上路我想問一下你現在覺得會跳票嗎"},{"start":1467.494,"end":1488.789,"text":"整個規劃接近完成待我們跟行政院跟院長報告完畢之後就會對外來宣布是院會跳票嗎我問那麼簡單的問題因為我們還是要跟這個院裡面報告還有現在最後的這個手續正在做最後的確認當中這些這個基礎的"},{"start":1489.69,"end":1513.511,"text":"因為它是兩個APP啦一個是健康存摺的部分這個已經ready了另外一個是這個health goal的部分現在正在改版還沒有完成那你四月到底會不會跳票我們朝這個目標來努力朝這個目標來努力就是有可能努力不會在四月的時候launch因為據我所知你的結標你說你要改善剛剛那個APP你的結標是三月底耶"},{"start":1517.643,"end":1540.943,"text":"對 現在已經決標了 現在正在做進行好 這個還要我自己從新聞去找1到4是你講過的話對於5678我很在意的數位落差或者是會不會更讓健康不平等因為國外已經有做過數據他們研究過健康幣後來是比較重視健康的人才會去加入這個Program"},{"start":1541.303,"end":1563.248,"text":"那你是不是要加權還有你要怎麼幫自己設KPI因為你說你要配合健康台灣的政策你總要設定說你有了這個健康幣後來你的疫苗施打率增加多少這些可不可以請你的同仁等一下來跟我要我這張slide還有我上次的公文你完全沒有回我"},{"start":1564.088,"end":1585.951,"text":"你可以回覆嗎我們在完整規劃完之後會再跟委員做一個更詳細的說明所以你什麼時候可以說明大概也是三個月內再跟您說明希望衛部這個數位化的工具在這個時代是跟民眾接觸最方便的那剛剛那樣的一個過程那個APP的內容一定要儘速的優化"},{"start":1586.38,"end":1596.531,"text":"好那院長我現在跟你講一個最大的問題如果你今天可以壯士斷腕你可以做下一個決定你會改變很多事這邊請運動部部長文化部部長上台"},{"start":1599.136,"end":1615.995,"text":"請運動部長、文化部長被選文化部長你還要留著時間暫停陳委員不好意思我們只能三位叫院長好您看先文化部還先體育部那我們就先運動部跟文化部然後很快再換衛福部長文化部請回時間暫停 謝謝"},{"start":1620.939,"end":1628.589,"text":"運動部跟文化部運動部跟文化部好 衛福部請回兩位部長及代理請"},{"start":1634.323,"end":1650.722,"text":"謝謝兩位部長院長我從這邊開始跟你講解其實剛剛講到的健康幣把一些好的行為最後轉化成點數或是紅利這個在其他國家都有做我先舉新加坡他是把運動幣跟健康幣合併在一起了因為"},{"start":1652.144,"end":1674.442,"text":"運動所轉化的行為你也可以去購買保健食品或者是你就把它換成運動券等等這個是新加坡做的事情他把它整合再來日本做的是速發布等等我們也會請速發布他把政府所有相關的這些紅利點數全部交由速發布去彙整速發布彙整但是各部門設計設計好了之後速發布就找"},{"start":1676.984,"end":1698.395,"text":"民間的支付業者或者是我們這邊可以找財政部所以他們用了一個人民很普遍的支付系統最後他就變成錢他可以去消費所以任何你希望他做的健康行為最後他就會變成錢日本是這樣做的韓國他是把文化跟體育放在一個虛擬的卡片裡面他把這兩個東西結合"},{"start":1700.336,"end":1712.944,"text":"那這邊我是想問文化部還有運動部一個問題先問文化部你有沒有遇過我身邊很多人滿了23歲對於這個一年一次用的APP他就把它刪掉了"},{"start":1714.617,"end":1743.067,"text":"是啊 這個有發生嘛所以利益良善的文化幣APP一年用一次23歲不會再發文化幣他就把它刪掉了那我想問運動部長請問你有抽獎是不是抽獎之後他掃完這個QR code換完東西他也就不會再用不會再使用你這個介面了運動部的運動部是用網頁他不是用APP是嗎我們是用網頁沒錯對 可是你換完你如果沒有抽到獎或是你抽到獎你使用完你就不會再使用這個網頁了嘛"},{"start":1744.397,"end":1769.629,"text":"理論上是這樣對嘛 是所以院長你現在遇到的最大一個問題是什麼我們三種幣 三種APP那你看剛900萬是這樣子丟掉的我們為什麼要這樣子應該是要很直觀嘛你既然想要促進各種藝文活動 運動 健康你應該留著那個最永續的窗口可能是健康幣"},{"start":1770.549,"end":1785.272,"text":"他會養成習慣那你那個文化幣進來以後二三歲沒有可是你跟他並在一起你義務活動還是會被推波你的運動還是會變成閉碼兩位可以回座了所以今天其實院長你需要做一個很大的決定"},{"start":1786.144,"end":1808.363,"text":"未來各種不同的部門還會有不同的幣出現地方政府也有包括你發消費券也有可能別的國家是精簡直觀完全的降低數位落差高齡也不用記什麼不用什麼幣要用什麼APP他把它全部整合成一個國家生活的錢包"},{"start":1809.224,"end":1832.662,"text":"所以你今天的判斷非常的重要我們請速發部上台你看你有沒有辦法做到我幫你想的方法就是速發部可以擔任我們的project manager那財政部他比較厲害他負責金流而且他對於台灣Pay也非常的有經驗看他是要把它變成app還是他要把它結合學日本一樣結合成台灣Pay"},{"start":1833.783,"end":1855.23,"text":"不然你只是會只要一個部推行什麼幣你就要做一個APP然後重新一直疊床加屋下去像我們現在蘇發部有一個共同發放平台像是我們普發現金一萬還有課加幣這個都是用蘇發部共同發放平台去使用"},{"start":1886.881,"end":1890.022,"text":"對 院長 我覺得其他國家是化繁為淺我們現在問的話"},{"start":1894.967,"end":1902.062,"text":"冰凍品還有客家冰所以在年齡整個金額都順暫了所以在經濟上是個性的證明但是我也看到這個現象"},{"start":1924.904,"end":1924.924,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:19:19.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:19:22.773000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，我想請卓院長及勞動部部長。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:19:22.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:19:23.594000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長、勞動部部長備詢。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:19:32.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:19:54.105000+08:00","text":"院長您辛苦了一天，所以今天有一個蠻大的新聞你可能沒有注意到，也就是我們的人口來到了第26個月的負成長，去年年初我第一次質詢您的時候，您說希望有些策略可以達到13萬保衛戰，結果到年底的時候又承認也許不到11萬，最後結果是10萬多。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:19:55.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:10.758000+08:00","text":"剛剛午間的時候，最新的新聞出爐了，今年2月的新生兒是史上最低──6,523人，1月是8,723人，許多婦產科專家很擔心今年的新生兒甚至不到10萬人。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:11.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:26.993000+08:00","text":"人力就是一個很重要的戰力，這個你也認同，我今天的質詢會圍繞在少子化，還有大健康、健康促進等等，可是很多題目是需要各部會一起整合的，所以院長稍後您給我的回應會格外地重要。是。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:27.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:38.884000+08:00","text":"首先，我想請教部長，我非常肯定彈性育嬰留停，您在當委員的時候也非常關心，今年3月終於正式實施，這是一個很好的發展。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:39.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:39.945000+08:00","text":"1月就實施了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:39.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:40.945000+08:00","text":"1月，但這一套以日為單位的申請政策，從你開始醞釀到真正上路，請問你推動了多久，還記得嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:40.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:41.587000+08:00","text":"我們是在去年9月公布的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:54.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:20:58.669000+08:00","text":"我是說從你開始醞釀、試辦，你還記得……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:20:58.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:00.391000+08:00","text":"其實從我在當立委的時候就醞釀了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:01.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:03.995000+08:00","text":"對，你也記得，大概是兩年了，對嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:04.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:06.838000+08:00","text":"從我當立委的時候就醞釀了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:06.838000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:07.838000+08:00","text":"那現在涵蓋的範圍……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:06.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:09.281000+08:00","text":"但關鍵是一些配套的設計。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:09.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:11.323000+08:00","text":"好，現在涵蓋的範圍有多廣？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:11.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:13.205000+08:00","text":"公務人員一併適用了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:13.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:14.026000+08:00","text":"是，公務人員適用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:14.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:24.156000+08:00","text":"好，我們希望院長可以多關心您旗下這麼多的公務人員是不是都可以同時兼顧家庭、兼顧工作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:24.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:30.723000+08:00","text":"我想知道這個兩年的試辦計畫，您覺得自己的成績看起來是如何？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:31.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:46.444000+08:00","text":"我查詢了一下，參加的有89家企業，其中七成六沒有半個員工申請，實際上有業績的只有21家，總共受益的是166人次。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:47.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:21:52.162000+08:00","text":"對於這樣的試辦成效，我想請問部長，您自己滿意嗎？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:21:52.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:13.600000+08:00","text":"委員，我跟你報告，我們從今年元月1號開始上路，1月到2月的數字，目前總共有兩千七百多人申請單日型的育嬰留停，總共有大概五千兩百多個申請案，不是你剛才說的數字。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:13.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:14.641000+08:00","text":"我講的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:14.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:16.021000+08:00","text":"在兩個月前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:16.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:21.083000+08:00","text":"我講的是你過去兩年，你剛剛不是說你有一些配套沒做好嗎？是吧？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:21.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:40.849000+08:00","text":"不是，我現在說的是從今年1月1號正式可以以日請，因為前面之前的試辦其實是要企業主動願意的，可是我們在今年1月1號的正式上路就是只要勞工有提出，雇主是不能拒絕的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:41.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:45.813000+08:00","text":"好，我希望之後我們可以看到你的成果，我們也會在委員會繼續地講，我現在在問的……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:45.813000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:46.813000+08:00","text":"委員，我再跟你說明，它的成果就是1月到2月，目前已經有五千兩百多個申請案了，不是你說的這個數字。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:45.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:22:49.996000+08:00","text":"好，我先回顧一下我們在委員會時執政黨委員對您的comment，他之前在評論您的試辦計畫是這樣子說的，當然，他講了20分鐘，我簡短地播一下。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:22:49.996000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:23:48.932000+08:00","text":"（播放影片）","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:23:48.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:23:53.133000+08:00","text":"委員，你可以看一下那個時間點是2024年12月18號，這是我剛上任……","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:23:53.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:23:56.495000+08:00","text":"我知道，我剛剛不是一直在問你過去兩年嗎？對。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:23:56.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:24:00.216000+08:00","text":"這個政策的推動本來就需要一點時間，試辦也需要時間。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:24:01.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:24:05.938000+08:00","text":"我現在想說的是，少子化這個危機很多縣市首長都看到了。是。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:24:06.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:24:22.208000+08:00","text":"所以蔣萬安市長最近推出一個育兒減少工時的計畫，他看到很多家長的需求，我這邊先說，衛福部的comment是樂觀其成，因為可以協助育嬰爸媽有更彈性的時間。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:24:22.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:24:35.480000+08:00","text":"相較於您剛剛被林淑芬委員講的這個試辦計畫，你現在批評蔣萬安市長的政策是象徵性失敗，我想請問部長，您的標準到底在哪裡？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:24:35.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:24:59.547000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，你應該把我整段話給看完，我的意思很簡單，就是任何一個政策需要把相關的配套措施給做好，比方說我們在去年9月推出的單日型彈性育嬰留停，也是因為醞釀了，就是把配套一段一段做到位，所以到今年的頭兩個月才會有這樣的成績。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:24:59.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:00.047000+08:00","text":"所以我這一段話……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:01.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:16.491000+08:00","text":"你自己這個試辦計畫做了兩年，也發現所有的政策從上路到開始推、到真正落實，本來就有很長的準備時間，且衛福部認同了，你卻要開始講說這個是象徵性試辦……","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:16.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:17.511000+08:00","text":"委員，不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:17.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:26.633000+08:00","text":"我只想問你一句話，臺北市率先推出這樣子方便爸爸媽媽的做法，您精神上支不支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:27.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:30.334000+08:00","text":"我等一下會舉出很多配套，我們也可以討論很多配套……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:32.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:39.163000+08:00","text":"委員，我認為你應該要完整的聽完，我的完整說法是，今天地方政府願意這樣做嘗試，我們當然是正面看待的……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:39.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:41.425000+08:00","text":"很好，我只需要你這句話！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:41.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:54.295000+08:00","text":"我這句話它前面說的意思是，如果配套不夠完善的話，不希望它落入了象徵性試辦，所以我的意思是，大家應該要一起來思考，怎麼把配套做得更完善、讓它更可行，這樣才更好，我的意思是這樣的。","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:55.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:57.216000+08:00","text":"你就講你正面看待，對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:25:57.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:25:59.818000+08:00","text":"以你勞動部部長的高度，你剛剛就說得很好啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:26:00.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:26:05.241000+08:00","text":"你可以說：我正面看待，但是配套如何做，我們中央、地方一起來協力！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:26:05.241000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:26:06.241000+08:00","text":"委員，那天記者會我的說法就是這樣子的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:26:05.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:26:22.887000+08:00","text":"所以我今天要準備的資料就是把世界各國的制度拿出來，院長應該知道，現在我們很急迫，可是很多國家其實都做得非常成熟了，我覺得我們可以直接考慮，是不是我們就來應用一些成熟國家的做法。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:26:24.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:26:57.600000+08:00","text":"現在來看一下，其實你剛剛講的那些配套，當時可能有人會說，這可能會標籤化，或者是同事之間會互相抱怨、歧視、靠主管關係等等的，其實這些在英國、歐盟、澳洲、荷蘭等等，他們都已經整個法制化了，它是一個法定的權利，所以包括家中有沒有小朋友，或者有的是一般員工到職後有需求就可以提出，雇主在期限內按照程序處理，有合理理由才可以拒絕，用機制來降低不確定性。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:26:58.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:27:04.783000+08:00","text":"並且在這個地方，如果你覺得未來工作是有彈性的，剛好又有伴侶，你也可以趁機來規劃未來。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:27:07.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:27:12.328000+08:00","text":"再來我要講的是跟我們一樣面臨少子化的國家──新加坡跟日本，他們怎麼做呢？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:27:13.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:27:31.284000+08:00","text":"新加坡在疫情後，針對採取彈性工時的企業導入了Work-Life Grant，以發放補助金來支持企業，所以從52%爬升到72%，他們也發現這對員工滿意度、留任、生產力有正面的效果。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:27:31.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:27:42.015000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說的配套新加坡也有想到，但並不是所有的產業都適用，有符合這個特質的他們才會做，但是有做的基本上滿意度都很高。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:27:43.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:28:06.223000+08:00","text":"再講到日本，日本他們在疫情後，雖然遠距工作比例有下降，現在則是穩定維持在一個持平的程度，而他們發現，只要他們去補貼企業改造制度、設備的成本，企業可以照顧這些有育兒或是有照護高齡長者需求的，就其工作型態來做連動調整。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:28:08.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:28:45.242000+08:00","text":"在此跟院長報告，去（2025）年10月開始，日本對於家裡有3歲到就學前的小朋友，規定企業要從五種多元方案裡選擇至少兩種出來提供，裡面就包括蔣萬安市長現在提出的，比如說，調整上下班時間；縮短工時；每個月至少10天用遠距上班，如果你的公司是可以用遠距上班的；育兒支援休假以及托育設施等等，在這邊我想請院長責成部長，大概多久以內可以有這樣的評估報告出來，就是研擬中央法規的配套？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:28:46.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:29:19.826000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，跟委員報告，這種彈性減少工時，都是一種可嘗試性的工作，我們往這個方向來講，勞動部已經在做了，而目前地方政府做的，我更希望他們能夠在勞工端，還有職務代理人端，還有企業端，三方面都能夠完整，因為越小的公司這種彈性減少工時所產生的工作力減少跟變動是最為明顯的，所以要想好這些配套，部長的意思就是這樣子。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:29:19.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:29:24.390000+08:00","text":"院長，我已經幫你找好資料了，當然部長那邊也有很棒的研究所……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:29:25.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:29:27.473000+08:00","text":"臺北市政府要想好這些配套。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:29:27.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:29:42.741000+08:00","text":"我有幫你找好資料，所以在國外，雇主也可以在法定期限內按程序處理或是有合理的理由來拒絕，這邊我都幫你找好資料了，之後歡迎勞動部的聯絡人來跟我討論，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-10T15:29:45.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:20.152000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，其實我可以直接回答委員，我覺得各種讓工作時間跟職場能夠更有彈性，然後包容或兼顧工作跟照顧小孩的方法，我想我們都願意綜合的來做思考，可是在經過這幾年的嘗試之後，我們認為關鍵其實的確是在於配套的完善與否，這是我原話最重要的點，所以我完全不是在批評地方政府或者是說風涼話，我覺得不要誤會，我也沒有這樣子的用意。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:20.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:23.696000+08:00","text":"非常好，那我們大概多久以內可以提出一個研擬報告？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:23.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:30.623000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提了最後的問句，就是在院長責成部長之後，多久之內可以草擬出這樣的中央法規來配套？","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:32.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:33.980000+08:00","text":"是勞動部的彈性工時報告？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:35.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:45.171000+08:00","text":"他剛剛說已經有這兩、三個月執行的報告，我們應該要根據一段時間，報告內容的這個基準數才會準確，我們再來做檢討。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:45.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:48.454000+08:00","text":"好，部長，您可以回座了，謝謝部長。謝謝。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:48.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:49.415000+08:00","text":"接下來請衛福部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:51.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:53.246000+08:00","text":"麻煩請衛福部部長備詢。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:53.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:30:56.106000+08:00","text":"在部長上臺的時候，我先播放一段影片給院長看。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:30:57.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:31:12.712000+08:00","text":"現在臺灣常常在網路上開始大戰，你應該知道「厭童」，有一些店家是標榜不接待兒童，並且還會大獲好評，有時候會在地圖上變成它行銷的環節，可是我在看到這個影片以後非常的擔心。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:31:12.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:31:14.813000+08:00","text":"（播放影片）","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:31:14.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:31:41.176000+08:00","text":"我在這邊很簡單、快速地帶過一些數據，但是院長應該一目瞭然。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:31:41.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:32:13.167000+08:00","text":"根據兒盟的統計，民眾的厭童程度從輕度到重度大概是占6成，被認為應該限制孩童進入的地點包括餐廳、大眾運輸或咖啡廳，家長也感受到非常大的壓力，所以有60%左右的家長會覺得他們出去的時候有人極不友善，在網路上都有看到一些不友善的行為，最近在新聞上也常常被播出來，包括被偷拍、公審或是直接被噓、被白眼、被趕下車廂等等。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:32:14.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:32:29.251000+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣只會讓我們目前少子化的國安危機越來越嚴重，因為一般大眾討厭噪音，家長害怕被噴，以致於他就是很難帶小孩出門，很多人就不想生小孩了。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:32:30.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:33:01.707000+08:00","text":"我在這邊要給院長很具體的建議，問題並不是我們希望在全國每一個角落都適合嬰幼兒，而是我們希望借鏡外國的經驗，我們希望在城市裡面提供分流的設計來降低衝突，可以從一些國家的公用機關開始做，比如說在車站、醫院、圖書館、政府場館等等，他們會有親子的安撫角落或是暫離的喘息區，讓你先安撫好你的小朋友，然後再回到大眾的場域。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:33:03.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:33:13.292000+08:00","text":"我舉幾個案例，像這是機場裡面的Calm Room，讓小孩可以被安撫；或者像芬蘭的火車上就設有親子車廂。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:33:13.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:33:26.658000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也要稱讚衛福部或行政院，現在像哺乳室或者是無障礙廁所、多功能室，我們一到某一個場域會看到標示，我們會找得到，我們就知道這個地方有沒有設置。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:33:27.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:33:46.569000+08:00","text":"可是像這樣子的親子友善空間並沒有被當成一個公共服務來推動，沒有被標準化，密度也沒有規劃，沒有導引、沒有維持，也沒有民眾可用性，所以會變成想做的人就自發性去做，可是在沒有人做的地方，家長也不知道要到哪裡去找。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:33:49.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:34:04.954000+08:00","text":"我要跟院長報告，日、韓已經開始超車了，韓國2024年從谷底反彈，生育率開始回升了，他們今年的生育率回升到0.8，當然有做了很多配套，包括住宅或者是津貼，像這些我們也都有在努力追上。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:34:05.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:34:32.067000+08:00","text":"但是他們的友善職場跟友善公共空間是值得我們借鏡的，他們會利用企業的誘因還有數位整合，我們舉一些比較直觀的部分，像韓國之前的厭童是比臺灣還要嚴重，他們曾經爆發非常多的衝突，所以政府很積極地在解決，他們有推動這樣子的認證標章，把貼紙貼在店家前面，並且跟他們民眾最常用的地圖去做結合。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:34:33.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:34:49.463000+08:00","text":"當然這件事也不是毫無補助的，會根據場域給30萬韓元的補助，如果更大就給40萬韓元，讓你去購買這些兒童會用到的產品，或者是你可以付保費，假使兒童在這個場域受傷，就可以獲得理賠。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:34:51.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:34:59.933000+08:00","text":"而且有跟韓國市占率最高的民間地圖無縫接軌的串聯，所以等於是政府用全國的力量去幫它導入精準的客源。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:35:01.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:35:25.559000+08:00","text":"再來，日本的熊本熊標章是支援全國育兒護照事業、嬰兒休息站等等，它去調查，如果這個地方願意提供熱水泡奶、點心、嬰兒友善停車、遊戲、哺乳室等等，我們就幫你把它登入全國共通的官方搜尋或者是app，也會直接發放數十萬元不等的補助款。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:35:27.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:35:55.301000+08:00","text":"具體我們來看看臺灣現在做了什麼，剛剛那個新聞讓我很擔心的是，我們已經有了不要小孩的地圖，但是這些爸媽只能自己靠自己，他們互相自救，他們現在在社群裡面無私投稿，分享有哪些景點、哪些餐廳提供友善兒童的做法，變成臺灣人自己自製自救的友善地圖，這個本來是政府應該要做的事情。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:35:55.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:36:16.049000+08:00","text":"所以本席具體提供四個建議，我希望院長可以答復，第一，剛剛我們已經跟勞動部長說了，我們希望讓父母縮短工時有配套，直接變成大家都可以使用的彈性工時制度，這需要兩到三個月來研議，讓所有人可以有受惠的可能。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:36:16.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:36:38.130000+08:00","text":"第二個，我覺得院長應該可以直接做到，請院長通令發函，希望我也可以有副本，所有的政府機關立刻去盤點我們的公共空間，給孩子一些分流還有安撫的地方，並且要讓民眾在手機上可以查詢、預測、使用，像這樣子的決心，不知道院長可不可以表達？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:36:39.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:14.059000+08:00","text":"委員這個建議相當完整，我覺得完全拒絕和家長放任都是極端，都是極端的例子，還是有，但是整個社會不應該有那麼強烈的厭童，尤其是少子化的時代，但是政府該做的就是讓想要在一個地方能夠安安心心的，自己跟他的小孩有一個親子活動的空間，我們可以提供一個知道哪裡找到這些訊息，我們的衛福部做了很多，像這次過年也做了很多，在手機上就可以找到這個訊息，我們用這樣的經驗，我覺得我們可以全國來做個大調查。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:14.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:21.304000+08:00","text":"所以一個月內可以發函給所有的政府機關，去盤點他們的場域，有沒有辦法提供這個服務嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:21.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:23.466000+08:00","text":"如果是政府機關，我們很快就可以處理。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:24.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:24.267000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:24.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:24.367000+08:00","text":"第三點……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:24.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:37:55.968000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們過去針對身障者也有去創造這樣的盤點，然後做成app，讓身障朋友要就醫的時候可以查詢，剛剛委員這個建議，我覺得非常好，把過去從友善生育再轉換成友善孩子的環境，我們來一起推動，第一步先來盤點，後面看看如何來做一些指引和輔導，建立一個友善孩子的空間。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:37:55.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:38:33.302000+08:00","text":"第三點也很需要院長的幫忙，因為我看到他們有官方的認證及標章，不管是貼紙或數位認證，所以他是用公部門的資源去幫店家導客和曝光，讓願意做的人看到我可能有補貼，而且我還會獲得認證，我對親子友善是有好處的，我們現在有世界無敵宇宙爆炸強的數發部，對數發部而言，應該是很簡單的，院長和數發部部長是不是可以承諾去研發、去做這樣子的認證和地圖？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:38:33.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:38:35.865000+08:00","text":"因為這兩點日韓現在做得非常積極。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:38:37.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:38:59.737000+08:00","text":"既然第二點的方向我們都認同可以來做的話，這個部分應該先要有一個執行的標準，甚至未來要有鑑定的流程去認定，所以我先把這些作業做起來，再來準備怎麼樣讓這個場域能夠有一個明顯的標示，能夠得到更多在行動上支持它的地方。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:00.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:39:14.061000+08:00","text":"第四個，因為以上我剛剛所述的真的是跨部會的責任，從勞動部一直到衛福部，可能到數發部等等，具體要求院長是不是指示政委來協助推動？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:14.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:39:24.523000+08:00","text":"因為很快也許你們又會推動少子化計畫或綱領，能不能明確加入一項新的指標，也就是友善嬰兒、友善兒童的環境？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:24.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:39:24.783000+08:00","text":"請院長承諾。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:24.783000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:39:28.475000+08:00","text":"先請部長講一下技術上能不能做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:28.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:39:58.965000+08:00","text":"可以，我們現在在少子女化2.0的行動計畫裡面，其實有在推動相關的友善職場，剛剛提到的就是更大的友善環境，我們過去有推動過高齡友善環境、高齡友善城市，我們可以用過去的經驗來研究，把友善孩子、友善兒童的環境也照過去的模式來推動。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:39:58.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:01.668000+08:00","text":"所以你也會在多久以內給我報告？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:02.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:05.825000+08:00","text":"我們來研議一下給委員一份報告。多久？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:06.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:07.085000+08:00","text":"三個月內。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:07.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:07.605000+08:00","text":"好，三個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:08.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:09.666000+08:00","text":"數發部部長，您可以先休息一下。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:10.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:12.547000+08:00","text":"接下來請衛福部部長再留步。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:13.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:28.998000+08:00","text":"最近部長常在媒體上講到推動健康幣，本席也很支持，但是我不知道你自己有沒有使用過這個app，有幾個問題我想問你，這個app花了900萬開發，900萬！","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:31.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:40.128000+08:00","text":"我幫你統計了一下，下載量只有500次，每天下載的次數是5次，你操作過了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:41.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:44.607000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們講的健康幣不是這個app，就是說……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:45.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:40:49.608000+08:00","text":"這個是你在媒體上講的，你說未來想委託……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:40:49.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:03.450000+08:00","text":"不是這個app，應該是說我們透過健康存摺，未來我們會導入下一步，第一步就是預防保健，包含打疫苗、癌篩、成人健檢等這些……","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:03.450000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:04.450000+08:00","text":"這個我知道……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:04.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:19.596000+08:00","text":"然後會在健康存摺裡面轉換成健康幣，而這個要做轉型，這是之前國健署開發的，這個要做轉型，變成一個offline的chain來專門做健康幣的兌換。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:19.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:26.599000+08:00","text":"我先播一段影片給你看，你會很震驚，因為我知道你有在用穿戴式的運動設備。對。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:26.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:51.941000+08:00","text":"你看一下這個app怎麼用，每天喝多少水是要自己輸入，所以你自己要統計；再來，運動也要自己輸入，你可能先看其他的運動app，再用它輸入你跑了幾步；最後更誇張的是現在很多營養學的app用拍照就已經告訴你蛋白質多少、澱粉多少，這個是要自己輸的欸……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:52.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:55.104000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個app我非常不滿意。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:55.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:41:56.786000+08:00","text":"你花900萬欸！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:41:57.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:00.991000+08:00","text":"我非常不滿意，所以才要求它轉型，這個是國健署之前開發的，現在做轉型……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:01.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:02.433000+08:00","text":"所以你900萬丟到水裡喔！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:02.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:02.753000+08:00","text":"不會、不會！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:02.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:03.214000+08:00","text":"這個未來你會很滿意。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:06.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:08.334000+08:00","text":"那你900萬做了什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:08.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:15.379000+08:00","text":"我看到的是這樣，而且昨天我請助理也去下載，我說，我認為難用，你們是不是也認為難用？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:15.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:17.960000+08:00","text":"你知道它現在在雙平臺都下架了嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:17.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:27.507000+08:00","text":"對，因為我們在做轉型當中，我就是覺得它很不好用，跟我們現在的期待差太遠，所以我們在做轉型。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:27.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:28.507000+08:00","text":"委員，現在很多的穿戴裝置都非常……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:28.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:41.033000+08:00","text":"院長，他花了900萬做出一個電子記事本，每天要自己輸入步數、自己計算蛋白質，你覺得合理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:41.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:44.274000+08:00","text":"現在很多的穿戴裝置都非常實用、便利。對、對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:45.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:48.995000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員不應該把林部長請下去，如果數發部部長在這裡的話，就可以馬上……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:49.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:42:49.855000+08:00","text":"等一下數發部還會再上來。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:42:49.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:02.219000+08:00","text":"我只是想要告訴院長及部長，錢不是這樣子亂花的，900萬開發了一個500人下載，現在還不知道多少人已經把它刪掉了。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:02.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:12.183000+08:00","text":"再來，我對於健康幣的質詢，不管是在委員會或者……因為剛好是遇到次長，次長沒有那麼熟悉，後來我就直接發函。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:12.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:13.404000+08:00","text":"院長，我很認真欸！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:14.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:20.587000+08:00","text":"我索資寫了3頁，整整3頁，問他說這個點數你想要怎麼計算？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:21.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:24.249000+08:00","text":"如果針對一些高風險族群，你要不要加權？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:24.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:25.229000+08:00","text":"有沒有上限？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:25.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:44.078000+08:00","text":"我問了非常多的問題，結果部長回我一頁，那一頁上面就寫比他新聞採訪還少的內容，他寫「促進健康、預防及逆轉疾病的目標」就這樣，但是你在新聞說4月健康幣要上路，我想問一下，你現在覺得會跳票嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:45.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:51.939000+08:00","text":"整個規劃接近完成，待我們跟行政院及院長報告完畢之後，就會對外來宣布。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:53.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:54.320000+08:00","text":"4月會跳票嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:54.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:43:56.061000+08:00","text":"我問那麼簡單的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:43:56.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:15.477000+08:00","text":"因為我們還是要跟院裡面報告，還有現在最後的手續正在做最後的確認當中，這些基礎的硬體，因為它是兩個app，一個是健康存摺的部分，這個已經ready了，另外是Health Go的部分，現在正在改版，還沒有完成。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:15.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:17.258000+08:00","text":"那4月到底會不會跳票？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:17.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:19.300000+08:00","text":"我們朝這個目標來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:20.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:25.986000+08:00","text":"朝這個目標來努力，就是有可能努力不會在4月的時候launch。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:26.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:35.643000+08:00","text":"因為據我所知，你說要改善剛剛那個app，你的結標是3月底欸！對、對！對嘛！","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:35.643000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:36.643000+08:00","text":"你4月會不會跳票？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:35.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:44:37.765000+08:00","text":"現在已經決標了，現在正在進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:44:39.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:01.323000+08:00","text":"好，這個還要我自己從新聞去找，1到4是你講過的話，5、6、7、8則是我很在意的數位落差，或者是會不會更讓健康不平等，因為國外已經有做過數據，他們研究過健康幣，後來是比較重視健康的人才會加入這個program，你是不是要加權？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:01.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:04.444000+08:00","text":"還有，要怎麼幫自己設KPI？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:04.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:23.309000+08:00","text":"因為你說要配合健康台灣政策，你總要設定有了健康幣，後來疫苗施打率增加多少，這些可不可以請同仁等一下來跟我要這張slide，還有我上次的公文，你完全沒有回復，你可以回復嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:23.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:28.254000+08:00","text":"我們在完整規劃完之後會再跟委員做一個更詳細的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:28.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:29.596000+08:00","text":"所以你什麼時候可以說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:31.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:33.120000+08:00","text":"大概也是三個月內再跟您說明。好。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:36.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:44.380000+08:00","text":"數位化工具在這個時代是跟民眾接觸最方便的，剛剛那樣的過程，對於app的內容，我希望衛福部一定要儘速優化。好。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:44.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:45:54.511000+08:00","text":"院長，我現在跟你講一個最大的問題，如果你今天可以壯士斷腕，可以做下決定，你會改變很多事，請運動部部長、文化部部長上臺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:45:57.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:00.500000+08:00","text":"請運動部部長、文化部部長備詢。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:01.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:03.303000+08:00","text":"不是，衛福部部長，你還要留著。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:03.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:03.503000+08:00","text":"時間暫停。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:03.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:06.727000+08:00","text":"陳委員，不好意思，我們加院長只能3位。好。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:07.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:08.769000+08:00","text":"您看是先文化部還是先運動部？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:09.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:12.893000+08:00","text":"我們就先運動部跟文化部，然後很快再換衛福部部長。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:12.893000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:13.975000+08:00","text":"麻煩請運動部部長備詢，文化部部長請回。","quality":0.294},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:13.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:13.995000+08:00","text":"時間暫停，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:20.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:21.042000+08:00","text":"您是要文化部嗎？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:22.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:23.024000+08:00","text":"對，運動部跟文化部。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:23.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:26.329000+08:00","text":"好，衛福部請回，請部長及次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:32.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:46:32.323000+08:00","text":"謝謝兩位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:46:33.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:47:36.375000+08:00","text":"院長，我從這邊開始跟你講解，其實剛剛講到的健康幣把一些好的行為最後轉化成點數或是紅利，這個在其他國家都有做，我先舉新加坡為例，他是把運動幣跟健康幣合併在一起，因為運動所轉化的行為可以去購買保健食品，或者就把它換成運動券等等，這個是新加坡做的事情，他把它整合；再來日本做的是數發部……等等我們也會請數發部，他把政府所有相關的這些紅利點數全部交由數發部彙整，但是各部門設計，設計好了之後，數發部就找民間的支付業者或者是我們這邊可以找財政部，所以他們用了一個人民很普遍的支付系統，最後變成錢可以去消費，所以任何你希望他做的健康行為，最後就會變成錢，日本是這樣做的；韓國是把文化跟體育放在一個虛擬的卡片裡面，把這兩個東西結合。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:47:39.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:47:52.617000+08:00","text":"我想問文化部還有運動部一個問題，先問文化部，你有沒有遇過，像我身邊很多人滿23歲，對於這個一年用一次的app，就把它刪掉了？是的。是嘛！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:47:53.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:47:53.737000+08:00","text":"這個有發生嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:47:54.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:00.300000+08:00","text":"所以立意良善的文化幣app，一年用一次，23歲不會再發文化幣，他就把它刪掉了。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:00.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:14.945000+08:00","text":"我想問運動部部長，請問你有辦抽獎，是不是抽獎之後，他掃完QR Code，換完東西，他也不會再使用這個介面了，運動部是用網頁，不是用app，是嗎？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:14.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:16.705000+08:00","text":"我們是用網頁，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:16.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:21.047000+08:00","text":"可是你換完如果沒有抽到獎，或是抽到獎，你使用完就不會再使用這個網頁了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:22.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:23.457000+08:00","text":"理論上是這樣。對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:24.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:27.779000+08:00","text":"所以院長你現在遇到最大一個問題是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:27.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:36.824000+08:00","text":"我們三種幣、三種app，你看剛剛900萬是這樣子丟掉的，我們為什麼要這樣子？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:37.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:38.965000+08:00","text":"應該是要很直觀嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:39.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:57.904000+08:00","text":"既然想要促進各種藝文活動、運動、健康，應該要留著最永續的窗口，可能是健康幣，他會養成習慣，那文化幣到23歲之後沒有，可是跟它併在一起，藝文活動還是會被推播，運動還是會變成幣嘛！","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:48:59.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:48:59.787000+08:00","text":"兩位可以回座了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:49:00.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:50:00.566000+08:00","text":"所以今天其實院長你需要做一個很大的決定，未來各種不同的部門還會有不同的幣出現，地方政府也有，包括發消費券也有可能，別的國家是精簡、直觀、完全降低數位落差，高齡也不用記什麼部要用什麼幣、要用什麼app，他把它全部整合成一個國家生活的錢包，所以你今天的判斷非常重要，我們請數發部上臺，你看你有沒有辦法做到，我幫你想的方法就是數發部可以擔任project manager；財政部比較厲害，他負責金流，而且他對於台灣Pay也非常有經驗，看是要把它變成app，還是要把它結合，學日本一樣結合成台灣Pay，不然只要一個部推行什麼幣，你就要做一個app，然後一直疊床架屋下去。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-10T15:50:03.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:50:12.770000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們數發部現在有一個共同發放平臺，像是普發現金1萬還有客家幣，這些都是使用數發部共同發放平臺做發放。","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-10T15:50:12.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:50:44.881000+08:00","text":"所以委員說的這件事情我們有在進行，只是健康幣這件事情比較不一樣，這不是由中央發一筆錢或一筆點數去分配，這是希望民眾以運動或一些活動來轉換為金錢，方向不太一樣，所以有關這部分，目前數發部還沒有做，但我們會去跟衛福部共同研究，看是不是可以跟運動部等一起合作來做這個計畫。","quality":0.008},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:50:44.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-10T15:50:47.001000+08:00","text":"院長，其他國家是化繁為簡……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:50:47.501000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:19.501000+08:00","text":"我有發現這個問題，我們現在的文化幣、運動幣還有客家幣，對象不同、年齡層不同、金額不同，數量也不同，在執行上是各自為政，我也看到這個現象，我曾經想過能不能將他們整合，今天很謝謝委員，我們會認真來研究這個過程，讓它能夠更簡化，也節省政府在公務行政上的重疊。","quality":0.232},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:19.801000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:24.372429+08:00","text":"好，那可以請你三個月提供一個報告嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:24.672429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:28.101000+08:00","text":"好，我請數發部來整合，謝謝。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:28.401000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:32.972429+08:00","text":"好，相信數發部有這個能力來整合，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:33.272429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:34.272429+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:34.572429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:35.715286+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:36.015286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:37.158143+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:37.458143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:44.886714+08:00","text":"謝謝陳菁徽委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:45.186714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:51:55.186714+08:00","text":"報告院會，本日排定的質詢委員已經質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長以及各列席閣員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:51:55.486714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:01.486714+08:00","text":"下一次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:01.786714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:09.215286+08:00","text":"再一次感謝王育敏委員陪同我們一起參與今天的施政總質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:09.515286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:10.658143+08:00","text":"現在散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:10.958143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:12.101000+08:00","text":"散會（15時51分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:12.401000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:28.686714+08:00","text":"� 運動部過去曾推動「優化全民運動與賽會環境計畫」.地方政府可以提出申請（中央補助新北市的比率上限為67.5%），但目前該計畫已結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:28.986714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:44.129571+08:00","text":"� 114年每人每月經常性薪資平均數為50,643元，年增3.22%；經常性薪資中位數為39,890元，年增3.09%；每人全年總薪資平均數為806,448元，年增3.89%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:44.429571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:47.572429+08:00","text":"2022年、2024年各加薪4%、2025年則調薪3%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:47.872429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:52:56.729571+08:00","text":"� 2025年賦稅收入為3兆7,515億元，較上年減少104億元，年減0.3%，整體低於預算數505億元。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:52:57.029571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:53:03.315286+08:00","text":"這也是自2010年、時隔5年來首度稅收實徵淨額低於預算數。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:53:03.615286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:53:32.758143+08:00","text":"� 「阿拉斯加永久基金」是該州價值830億元的石油財富基金，甶選民於1976年投票創立，當時正值阿拉斯加州石油開採的榮景初期，目的是把這些黑金財富的一部分存起來，基金透過投資不斷發展壯大，州憲法禁止動用基金本金，其投資收益則用於當地居民。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:53:33.058143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:53:37.058143+08:00","text":"自1982年以來，該基金每年都支付股息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:53:37.358143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:53:44.215286+08:00","text":"支持者認為這是確保阿拉斯加居民享有利益的一種方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:53:44.515286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:54:00.801000+08:00","text":"� 美國媒體披露，美國總統川普原本預期對伊朗發動的戰爭只會打四周，但現在美國中央司令部已在做至少持續100天甚至到9月的可能準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:54:01.101000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:54:15.672429+08:00","text":"透過「MoneySense」國家金融教育計劃，從學校教育到成人理財，系統性提升國民對投資、風險管理及防詐騙的認知。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:54:15.972429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:54:28.543857+08:00","text":"將金融教育納入中學國家課程，並設立專責機構（如金融行為監管局 FCA）致力於提升消費者的金融能力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-10T15:54:28.843857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-10T15:54:41.701000+08:00","text":"多個州已強制要求高中畢業前必須完成金融素養課程，強調退休規劃、信用管理與應對突發經濟危機的能力。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}