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MANGA"},{"start":1493.131,"end":1493.913,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1522.645,"end":1522.726,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1585.718,"end":1585.799,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1670.819,"end":1670.9,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1817.217,"end":1834.449,"text":"請報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員19人已租法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會期經濟財政兩委員會第二次聯席會議議事錄時間114年5月11日星期三9時1分至11時48分地點紅樓101會議室"},{"start":1843.342,"end":1872.475,"text":"出席委員吳秉瑞等26人列席委員謝榮介等8人列席人員經濟部部長郭志輝財政部政務次長阮清華勞動部常務次長陳明仁農業部部長陳俊濟教育部政務次長葉秉成行政院公共工程委員會委員會副主任委員陳偉祥國防部副部長薄宏輝海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲內政部政務次長董建宏衛生福利部常務次長蔡周志浩"},{"start":1873.175,"end":1896.737,"text":"雲竹民主委員會政務副主任委員杜璋梅莊國家發展委員會副主任委員彭麗珮行政院主席總署主席長陳淑芝等主席謝昭吉委員依奉報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄 決定 確定討論事項 繼續審查行政院行情審議因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案等實案"},{"start":1899.189,"end":1923.211,"text":"決議一行政案各黨團及委員等所提時案所有法案名稱及條文並同修正動議二案均保留送院會處理二附帶決議兩項均保留送院會處理三並願審查完略以據審查報告提報院會討論需交由黨團協商並推請謝昭吉委員依奉於院會討論時做補充說明主席宣告通過之條文條次"},{"start":1924.232,"end":1953.393,"text":"引述條文部分文字及相關法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理 宣會宣讀完畢繼續討論 進行討論事項請宣讀討論事項審查一 本院委員謝業鳳等16人拟據農業保險法第10條條文修正草案二 本院委員邱六華等21人拟據農業保險法第二條及第10條條文修正草案三 本院委本院臺灣民眾黨黨團拟據農業保險法第二條及第10條條文修正草案宣讀完畢"},{"start":1961.755,"end":1971.496,"text":"本人議程所討論事項共計有三個提案版本現在先請提案委員說明提案要旨請謝一鋒委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":1982.281,"end":1999.156,"text":"主席所有與會的官員大家好我們現在要修的是農業保險法第10條我們知道說2020年的平均氣溫是24.6度是目前上氣溫最暖的一年"},{"start":1999.816,"end":2022.928,"text":"而之後的年平均溫度雖然都沒有超越2020年但是根據中央氣象署的統計分析發現我們台灣現在年均溫都有上升的趨勢同樣的我們台灣的日雨量也超過了350毫米或者是三小時累積雨量200毫米以上的天數"},{"start":2024.349,"end":2042.476,"text":"我們2022年有14天是目前最高的紀錄雖然之後沒有超過14天但是下豪雨的天數也是逐漸的增加108年到112年天災所造成的農業損失我們估計是540億467萬顯見極端氣候所造成的災損是"},{"start":2054.2,"end":2078.355,"text":"持續的攀升從事農業的風險具高度的不確定性所以現在現行法說定定的依實施年限遞減補助的規定將面對無法解決農民所面臨的風險所以本席認為應該修正依實施年限遞減補助的落日條款改為授權給農業部建立"},{"start":2080.776,"end":2099.37,"text":"以风险为导向的动态补助的制度来精准扶持高风险的弱势农民并配合未来国家的食粮食安全政策优先保障战略作物的生产任性以上谢谢谢谢谢一芬委员"},{"start":2117.431,"end":2121.296,"text":"現在請農業部陳俊濟部長就委員提案進行報告"},{"start":2133.228,"end":2155.448,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生今天立法院經濟財政兩委會的第三次聯席會議審查有關於謝依鳳等16人凝聚的農業保險法第10條修正條文的草案以及邱若驊等21人及台灣民眾黨團凝聚農業保險法第二條及第10條條文修正草案那以下本部緊就"},{"start":2157.049,"end":2174.438,"text":"現在目前有關於農業保險的一個實施的現況跟委員所提的版本的一些分析向在座各位的委員做說明首先先說明農業保險辦理的概況那就誠如剛才委員所提到的"},{"start":2175.94,"end":2188.05,"text":"農業的經營風險逐漸的提高是因為現在目前前後的不穩定性特別是極端天候的頻率越來越高為了協助農民分散經營風險穩定他的經營收入農業部在106年起就擴大推動農業保險"},{"start":2194.374,"end":2207.163,"text":"也承蒙大院通過的農業保險法並於110年1月1日實施架構了整個農業保險的一個運作機制目前農業保險已開辦了28項44張的保單覆蓋率已出現了0.93%提升到53.72%自推動以來整個理賠有12.5萬件總理賠金額超過了60.6億元"},{"start":2222.153,"end":2228.524,"text":"有效的發揮損害填補的一個功能實質保障受災農民的一個收入"},{"start":2230.069,"end":2249.655,"text":"其次來說明提升農業保險的一個精進作為那也因應歷次的委員一直要求我們農業保險的這些保單的設計或保單的這些評估要作為有更精進的作為那為了因應氣候變遷及農民的需求我們本部也持續滾動檢視來精進保證能源農並擴大"},{"start":2254.056,"end":2271.146,"text":"公開品項例如我們在113年新增了水域的保險那114年也剛剛也公告了所謂的那個豐數參數的翻地資的一個保險那此外為了扣合產業輔導及獎勵措施我們也辦理相關的教育訓練"},{"start":2272.988,"end":2292.321,"text":"講習、研習會及助談會等並運用多種管道來透過新聞稿、臉書等貼文來加強宣導保險跟風險管理的意識期待有更多的農民來參與同時我們也簡化了投保理賠的程序開發整合投保理賠的系統性資訊"},{"start":2293.742,"end":2312.538,"text":"並鼓勵我們產檢公司開發氣象參數型的保單氣象數據達到理賠基準就可以啟動相關的理賠來提供農民的一個即時的一個補償那接著就針對委員的提案我們在這邊做一個說明那本次委員共凝聚三個修正版本"},{"start":2313.098,"end":2333.577,"text":"那除配合行政院組織改造後修正第二條主管機關的權限由原來的農業委員會改成農業部以外那最主要是針對第十條刪除第一項實施第六年以上補助上限的規定並增列要求主管機關因事農業發展需求定期檢討調整"},{"start":2334.998,"end":2347.49,"text":"那針對第10條有關於增列定期檢討的規定那本部就農業保險補助比例系一我們的產業概況、政策目的及推動狀況等通盤檢討並定期的滾動的檢視在113年12月18日我們修正了農業保險保費的一個補助辦法"},{"start":2357.099,"end":2379.828,"text":"我們將餘產的保險費補助的比例由三分之一我們提升到二分之一那這也是一個例子就是在法的授權之下我們可以適度的調整這些保費的一個補利那現行的做法其實已經跟委員提案所增列的規定的意旨是相符的那第二個部分要說明的就是"},{"start":2381.068,"end":2398.725,"text":"農業的保險是透過保險來協助農民重視風險然後建立風險分攤與管理的一個概念那保費乃是獲得保險的保障的一個對價那農民負擔部分的保費"},{"start":2400.848,"end":2414.867,"text":"可以明顯的避免一些道德的規範那第十條系參考各國的部分補助的一個辦法朝野共識下當年所定的前五年保費是以75%為上限那第六年"},{"start":2415.948,"end":2431.558,"text":"起以60為上限那這樣的一個設計是有利於強化農民自主管理然後適時採取防範措施的動力以及提升農業經營任性有關那根據農業保險法補助的比例乃是針對中央政府的規範那農業部"},{"start":2433.919,"end":2457.38,"text":"現行規定是依二分之一為原則然後並鼓勵地方政府加碼所以我在這邊也再次強調就是相關的規定是規範在中央主管機關我們的保費的一個補助那以農業部來講我們現在補助的標準大概是二分之一除了強制性保險有到八成或百分之百以外但是地方政府會因為地方的"},{"start":2458.041,"end":2472.952,"text":"地方的各種作物的特殊性那地方政府他也可以得以給予加碼的補助那這個加碼的補助並不會受到這個上限而受限換句話說如果地方政府"},{"start":2474.292,"end":2498.825,"text":"中央政府補助50% 地方政府願意補助30%的時候它的整個政府的補助是80% 農民只要出20%那這樣的方式也是合於規定的 最近要特別去說明我們用這樣的一個設計 其實除了能夠適時減輕農民的負擔並有利於中央與地方協力來推動農業保險來加大政策的效益 來分散農民的經營風險"},{"start":2500.126,"end":2528.003,"text":"那最後我想現在分階段補助上限的規定是在109年經六法院三讀通過那現在才實施四年多那如果現在刪除了第六條上限的百分之六十的文士那就農業部的立場來講這樣的一個刪除本身它有可能是不再給予補助也有可能是補助可以達到百分之百因為純粹只是把文士刪除而已"},{"start":2528.763,"end":2541.851,"text":"那實際上的作為還是由農業部本身透過我們的機動的管理機動的調整像現在目前我們是定在75%為上限但是我們大部分的保單還是50%還有一些彈性所以我們建議說這個條文事實上"},{"start":2547.375,"end":2566.288,"text":"可以能夠不修那是最好的那農業部也會定期的做相關的滾動檢視而且我們也會跟地方政府來協力來達到一個就是雙贏的一個政策那以上報告敬請各位委員指教好謝謝請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤"},{"start":2569.67,"end":2599.062,"text":"没有哦那议事录确定现在财政部跟行政院主纪总处的书面报告请委员自行参阅并列入公报记录现在进行询答委员质询前原例作以下宣告每位委员发言时间联席会委员6分钟必要时得延长2分钟非本会委员5分钟上午10点30分截止发言登记首先请邱毅英委员做询答"},{"start":2609.726,"end":2610.67,"text":"謝謝主席我請一下部長"},{"start":2619.369,"end":2640.558,"text":"部長好部長針對我們今天要談的這個農業保險法的修正條文的部分剛您的報告裡面其實有談到就是說我們這個保費是對於農民風險管理的這個所謂的對價補助過高可能會怕會降低他自主管理的動力大概你們列了幾點第二個是這個法條其實是在109年才三讀通過"},{"start":2642.699,"end":2656.477,"text":"距今也差不多是五年前差不多五年了而且你們在食物上已經有執法跟所謂的行政裁量權去做這一些彈性的調整可是部長您剛剛講的這一些部分"},{"start":2657.577,"end":2671.972,"text":"我是同意但是有沒有想過其實我們現在有一些有一些作物或者是有一些品項其實你的補助已經超過了百分之百那如果你又不修法的話"},{"start":2672.873,"end":2696.66,"text":"那在未來在橫貧上面會不會產生極大的落差這一點我是不是能夠請部長您來說明一下比如說我們的水稻收入保險它雖然不是強制但是水稻收入保險的基本型它基本上已經算是百分之百嘛除非你是要去補你是要去加保投保所謂的加強型你才是自己要再多付費百分之應該是15左右吧"},{"start":2698.012,"end":2720.429,"text":"那如果是這樣那包括你說強制保險那就不算在此列了你不是誅之的這個叫強制保險所以這個補助當然也是百分之百所以部長我再請教一下您剛剛講的這些部分有沒有做一些彈性調整的可能性或者是說你在橫平性上面有沒有再去做一些思考來部長"},{"start":2721.701,"end":2747.951,"text":"業委員的提問那我先說明一下水稻的基本型的保險它是屬於一種由原來的天然災害整個移轉過來的所以它把我們利用天然災害過去幾年的一個受災的金額直接移到保險的額度來然後農民就不用再出錢了所以它屬於一種類似強制型的一個保險它不需要出保費的這種概念那其他的像租資啊"},{"start":2748.351,"end":2773.045,"text":"那像有一些比較大的政策型的保險那在原來的法裡面就有所謂的排除在外的部分這第一個說明那第二個說明就是委員剛才也提到一個重點就是保費的補助是一件事情但是我們怎麼樣讓保單的設計更合理更有利才能夠讓農民有意願投保當投保的農民越多的時候他的風險的分散越廣"},{"start":2774.406,"end":2790.448,"text":"那他的保費就會越低那個才是我們需要更積極去處理的所以如果就這一方面我想整個宣導跟整個配套似乎還是不太夠啦很多農民對於我其實不太贊成就是說你全額補助他保費"},{"start":2791.589,"end":2807.883,"text":"這樣對農民來講他沒有那一種投保的概念跟想法 換講中建戶的步驟啊他也不會想要去投保所以有沒有可能就是說我覺得主管機關你們應該是要去做一個所謂的定期檢討補助比例這樣的一個檢討機制檢討原則如果"},{"start":2810.905,"end":2819.111,"text":"不同意修法那是不是有一些動態滾動性的調整這些檢討甚至說我們要去讓農民更清楚所謂的農業保險對農民的保障這個區塊我認為農業部也應該要加緊腳步因為其實人都會去做人壽保險更何況是去做作務"},{"start":2834.062,"end":2853.762,"text":"那這一次的稻米欠收空炮彈的事件其實對農民來講他就了解到保險的重要性所以很多農民他是投保基本型的他其實沒有去做所謂的加強型的所以那一天我們到大寮到美濃去跟農民做對談的時候農民就會知道說原來還有一個加強型"},{"start":2854.683,"end":2880.438,"text":"所以它的補助是會增加的它的理賠金額是會增加的我覺得像這一些不管是滾動性的檢討或者是宣導應該都要加強就是在農業部來說你們應該都要加強讓農民理解這件事情很多人都會遇到天災的時候才會知道說保險的重要性但是還沒有遇到天災之前其實我們都應該要加強宣導你同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":2881.291,"end":2909.676,"text":"好 謝委員也提醒 我想宣導一定要再更積極的去做那另外的滾動式的檢討其實我們最近就在研議就是因為我剛才說的我們希望保險是一個長期性每年都能夠投保而不是好像又跟天氣對賭那如果我們再考慮說如果它連續的對它從事的作物連續保的話我們會給予保費的優惠那其實保費的優惠的概念其實就是政府增加補助的比例啦"},{"start":2910.276,"end":2925.876,"text":"所以用這種保費的優惠的概念去取代我們政府的保費提高所以不然您剛講的這個概念其實也是一種滾動式的檢討啦我不直接取消就是我不直接說你全部的保費都是政府出但是你如果連續投保"},{"start":2927.818,"end":2936.225,"text":"那我政府會給你再更多的一些優惠或者是鼓勵我覺得像這樣子的滾動式檢討是不是能夠就這個修法的層面上來說農業部能不能整理一個你們的相對應的政策出來到時候我們如果再進入主條的時候其實可以有更深入的一些討論"},{"start":2948.936,"end":2977.638,"text":"好 謝謝委員給我們這樣的機會我想在正式主條討論的時候我們會把更精進的滾動檢討的機制跟可能涵蓋的方向也讓委員了解所以你大概也知道說哪一些品項包括你要不要用品項去做分類你要做怎麼樣的分類標準補助標準或者是什麼我覺得可能你們內心大概也都有做一些評估報告可能在我們在進入主條的時候可能這個要請農業部來提出來好 我們一定到時候會提供"},{"start":2978.579,"end":3006.107,"text":"那接下来我要跟部长您提到最近大概你们也知道昨天傍晚我看到农业部也发布一个讯息日本米的米价飙升所以呢这对台湾来讲是一个很好的契机我看到你们的报告台湾的米销日本单单在今年的二月份它的涨幅是700%多所以整体来说台湾米销到日本去"},{"start":3007.848,"end":3032.628,"text":"應該是有大幅的競爭力的對不對好這個是你們整理出來的這個年增率喔今年的二月份年增率是768%喔是部長我最近有送你這個你有收到嗎應該有吧你如果沒有收到應該不曉得是不是被幕僚偷吃掉了齁這是我們美濃優質好米美濃147米是現在正在盛產是"},{"start":3034.11,"end":3055.517,"text":"我就在想說其實我們一直在講說這個公糧補助啊什麼的我們一直在講我們要鼓勵農民種好米種了好米之後你這樣遇到像日本像鄰近國家有這種糧食荒的時候其實我們的米就可以在這個時候去外銷出去日本買得到"},{"start":3056.477,"end":3077.376,"text":"部長您看一下這個照片其實日本是買得到台灣米的依照我們現在現行的這個數字上來看但是呢這個台灣米它沒有品種它沒有很明確的出現說比如說它這個米是哪裡來的它只有告訴你是台灣的米但是比如說像我們美濃的147米"},{"start":3078.897,"end":3100.118,"text":"他有沒有可能我們未來有一個品牌化可以銷到日本去讓大家知道說你在日本買到的是高雄的好米是池上的好米是哪裡的好米有沒有可能去做這樣的一個去做這樣的一個政策宣導或者是說做外銷的這樣的一個推動"},{"start":3100.902,"end":3125.908,"text":"我想委員提醒的齁 我非常認同 而且我覺得也應該這麼做如果說我們我們消毒日本米都只是寫台灣產的米那就不能凸顯地方的特色所以我們現在一直積極能夠讓我們產地的農會也好或是比較大的集團產區的話我們會協助他做品牌的建構然後去對接對方的通路這樣的話就能夠直接把我們地區的這些米的品牌直接帶上架"},{"start":3126.688,"end":3152.1,"text":"這個方式我想我們會積極來推動其實過去現在時代已經在轉變部長你可能會知道過去台灣人到日本去旅行的時候會很習慣帶一包日本米回來大家都說日本米很好吃現在已經不一樣了現在是台灣人去日本會習慣把台灣米帶過去給日本的朋友分享那當然這樣子帶出關會有一些簡易的問題這個就"},{"start":3153.86,"end":3175.552,"text":"後話啦這個簡易的部分就後話再談但是就是說台灣米現在已經受到市場上的侵爛但我覺得就農業部來講我們應該要更努力的去推展我們所謂的台灣自由品牌米不管是池上不管是美濃不管是其他的任何的地方"},{"start":3176.913,"end":3195.248,"text":"優質好米這件事情我們都應該要盡全力的來推動好嗎我想跟委員報告我們不能因為只是日本現在缺米我們趁機會把米外銷我們希望說米的外銷到日本是一個持續性的工作他必須建立一個完整的供應鏈必須建立相關的品牌跟通路的系統"},{"start":3196.048,"end":3208.919,"text":"我們會朝向這個方向來努力那未來如果日本米它本身的供應量還恢復穩定的時候我們還是能夠持續的去供應我們的U子米到它的高端的市場其實我覺得台灣米是有競爭力的啦我認為"},{"start":3211.221,"end":3228.854,"text":"日本你的這個米荒解除之後大家如果吃到台灣米吃到好吃大家也會回來買所以我覺得我們自己的品牌建立這件事情是很重要的這個我期待請農業部能夠趕快的去做相關的規劃"},{"start":3230.475,"end":3256.698,"text":"那我順便趁這個機會跟委員說明也許讓我們的消費者知道如果說我們帶米要到日本去送禮的時候只要是6公斤以下的話你可以直接在機場那邊檢疫就可以了我們在機場有一個檢疫的服務不需要說事前要去做那個所謂檢疫證的取得在機場可以有一個通路通關可以直接處理那日本帶回來的呢"},{"start":3257.481,"end":3266.184,"text":"日本帶回來的相對的應該在日本那邊我覺得你們可能要把那個流程稍微把它整理一下讓民眾也清楚啦我們會盡量的宣導好 謝謝現在請林德福委員做詢答謝謝 謝謝主席"},{"start":3281.623,"end":3288.288,"text":"議會的各部會的官員是不是請農委會農業部的陳部長陳部長原長部長你好"},{"start":3298.823,"end":3311.859,"text":"因為農村人力不足那為解決這個缺工的問題那政府啊除了積極推動以這個農業機具來替代人力外其中推動遙控無人機啊這個來噴藥"},{"start":3315.982,"end":3338.404,"text":"四維的比例逐漸的增加無人機噴藥通常省時、省錢、省力、省能力農民不用暴露在高濃度的這些農藥的環境裡面但偶爾有污染林田的這些爭議的發生不問農民施行有機耕作"},{"start":3339.125,"end":3359.738,"text":"或無農藥無撕毀的自然農法卻因為林田使用無人機的噴灑這些農藥的撕毀而受到影響那污染到自家的作物對此農業部對於無人機噴灑農藥撕毀如何避免污染使用"},{"start":3360.658,"end":3378.244,"text":"有機農法或這個無農藥的這些林田有沒有一些配套的措施好 謝謝委員那的確就是說針對無人機去噴藥的時候有可能去污染到林田那其實我們農業部在無人機第一個無人機噴藥的時候它必須要有雙證照"},{"start":3380.364,"end":3406.323,"text":"必須要取得技術上的認可第二個就是說我們已經有相關的一個規範包括操作的規範那更重要就是我們建設了全台灣的RTK那所謂的RTK就是無人機它可以定位到幾公分的距離那這樣噴的時候就不容易外到其他的林田去啦那第三個就是萬一有噴到的時候我們有一個所謂的鑑定的一個制度"},{"start":3407.243,"end":3419.209,"text":"能夠來確定有鑑定的制度是有一個鑑定的制度因為我們不希望說這個事情經常發生而且如何去避免農田飄落林田發生糾紛這個事情的發生部長"},{"start":3423.271,"end":3438.634,"text":"你有沒有說更好的方式我想我們現在也在積極推動因為畢竟我們現在目前雖然在推有機專區但是有部分的有機點它是跟傳統點在一起的所以在那種臨界地的時候我們就推動它有保護行的概念"},{"start":3439.495,"end":3457.915,"text":"就是說它雙邊都有一些保護行就是它不要在那裡用無人機去噴那這樣的話無人機如果沒有飛的依照我們的規定在珠貫4公尺以下的話它的風速在3米以下的話就不會飄散所以有保護行的制度它會避免它的臨天的污染這個很重要啦那個部長"},{"start":3459.144,"end":3485.681,"text":"美國今年4月宣布將對各國實施對等關稅後來又宣布90天的暫緩期那美方要求各國在6月4號以前要提最佳的提案在7月8號以前這些關稅暫緩期限到期前完成談判對此總統賴清德曾表示說我國將展開以零關稅為基礎"},{"start":3488.282,"end":3514.6,"text":"對美談判許多的農民認為台灣稻米產業認為將會因此受到嚴重的衝擊陸續有農民上街抗議認為開放美國稻米零關稅進口將犧牲台灣糧食的安全那陳部長你也說不會發生進口稻米零關稅那我請問這是對國人的承諾嗎"},{"start":3516.252,"end":3533.134,"text":"我跟委員報告現在台美的關稅正在談判中那談判的細節我不方便講但是你有講啊你說不會發生啊我還沒講完就是以農業的立場來講我們一定是在確保糧食安全的前提之下確保產業永續的前提之下"},{"start":3533.735,"end":3549.31,"text":"那我也承諾就是說我盡我們農業部的可能我們絕對不會讓稻米在這一波的關稅裡面去處理到零關稅甚至於我們都不希望稻米現在的制度而做任何的調整這是我們農業部的一個立場好"},{"start":3550.091,"end":3553.997,"text":"那政策要是跳票誰負責請問農業部你除了今年五月初農業部有派員赴美參與對美關稅的談判外後續六月還有再進一步磋商談判嗎"},{"start":3564.232,"end":3580.849,"text":"不過我想整個台北的談判是考慮到因為不只是農業不只是工業農業有非常非常多的品項所以我們考慮的是整個農業的最大的利益而且是農業能夠跟美國貿易雙贏的政策之下去處理的所有的談判的一個細節"},{"start":3581.71,"end":3595.867,"text":"但是到目前為止其實整個關稅的談判如在物理看花美國講的對講的是我們這個要去爭取到目前為止人民真的還看不到"},{"start":3597.679,"end":3620.976,"text":"那個陳部長日本近年來有米荒現象那台灣米2025年外銷日本預估全年銷量會超過1萬公噸但有日本民眾投書媒體分析台灣米出口日本市場的現象該名日本民眾認為日本米荒風波過去價格回落"},{"start":3622.13,"end":3642.513,"text":"哪怕台灣米與日本米的售價相當日本消費者會主動選擇台灣米的可能性能相當有限那我請問農業部台灣米外銷日本的銷量增加從長遠來看曇花一現還是可以穩定的成長你的看法呢"},{"start":3642.873,"end":3671.003,"text":"我剛才就提到了就是我們現在削日本的米的策略絕對不是因為它短期的短缺而大量的去推廣我們要建立的是整個完整的供應鏈我們要建立的是透過我們的品牌透過我們的品質跟美國的通路做鏈接去達到特定族群的市場那這樣的一個市場那個機制不管你未來日本稻米本身是不是回穩我們都還是能夠進攻一定的市場這才是我們的目標好"},{"start":3671.963,"end":3682.326,"text":"那個部長 會後你就提供本席書面資料說明112年到114年台灣米外銷日本政府有沒有補助相關的預算 有沒有"},{"start":3683.223,"end":3702.875,"text":"我想我們有很多相關的行銷還有包括品牌包括產地包括像極端產區有沒有我們希望是用氣做極端產區那這方面我們都有一些協助你會後給本席分資料我們再提供資料那個部長本席持續關注這個豬肉的價格民眾反映豬肉價格還在高檔"},{"start":3703.855,"end":3731.252,"text":"6月9日新北市毛豬的交易行情為例每公斤102.72元行政院穩定物價小組關注17項重要的民生物質其中豬肉漲幅最高來到6.9%創14個月的新高而中華民國養豬協會理事長認為目前的豬價1公斤破百元是合理的價格"},{"start":3732.113,"end":3744.229,"text":"喊話行政院物價穩定小組不要出手那豬肉破百價格請問農業部端午過後豬肉價格是否可以回檔你的看法呢"},{"start":3745.183,"end":3761.336,"text":"我們現在評估認為現在的豬肉價格在95到100之間是一個合理的價格那因為現在目前的豬的飼料跟成本跟幾年前都不可以相比那我們的目標是希望我們農業的生產能夠持續的生產國產的豬肉那你認為會回檔嗎"},{"start":3766.724,"end":3773.107,"text":"我想就在這個區間再跑再跑 還是會維持到中秋因為目前農業部任認為的這個豬肉合理價格因為你認為應該是多少才是合理價格"},{"start":3779.332,"end":3796.75,"text":"我們昨天大概是99塊已經不會再帶超過100塊只是短時間一天的那個那我們希望是控制在95到100之間但是要是超過農業部會採取哪些豬肉價格調節的措施我想批發價格會跟你的"},{"start":3797.771,"end":3806.565,"text":"批發的投訴是有關的所以當他的價格已經有些偏離的時候我們就會進場調節他的批發的投訴進場的數量那這樣的話就能夠讓他的價格穩定在95到100之間好"},{"start":3813.095,"end":3834.472,"text":"最後一個議題2024年颱風接二連三侵台造成許多榮損以香蕉為例颱風造成整體香蕉產量大幅的減少那香蕉價格屢創新高甚至於一百多塊一斤不是一公斤那目前農業部目前的整個香蕉的產量以價格"},{"start":3835.967,"end":3861.269,"text":"有沒有回穩現在價格已經回穩了齁回穩 以前齁我去買的時候是20塊一斤啦現在是差不多40塊因為我常年都有在吃這邊大概是25塊左右25塊 一斤喔市場價才25塊啊 差不多啦它那個比這個高啦 高很多啦114年度這個香蕉收入保險投保的情況如何"},{"start":3862.694,"end":3887.623,"text":"我們香蕉的投保人數我可能會有再提供給劉先生你們要提啊 這個你們其實要去關注啦是不是有比113年成長今年有多少香蕉種植面積 有參加投保大概是為時 那我跟委員報告因為香蕉的收入保險是基準產量乘以價格那因為它量少 但是量少的比例比價格高的 漲幅有沒有"},{"start":3888.263,"end":3915.705,"text":"因為價格漲幅太高了所以兩個一層的時候變成保險就不容易理賠到或是理賠的比較少那這個部分我們也在關切也在看看說保單有沒有可以調整的空間部長交農部參加這個相交收入表現的主要原因為何政府如何讓農友來體認農作物保險支出也是農業生產成本的一環我認為這個很重要"},{"start":3918.18,"end":3935.68,"text":"我想我們會在根基因為香蕉比較特殊因為香蕉一個園子裡面有當年生的有第二年生的它是比較沒有一致性然後香蕉從高雄屏東到南投的部分它的產地跟價格區間也比較大"},{"start":3936.261,"end":3952.577,"text":"所以我們現在用區域型的保險看看可不可以讓他更集中我們的數據比較好調查我希望農業部在這方面多去加強去要求跟控管謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝好 謝謝現在請鄭振淺委員做詢答"},{"start":3965.203,"end":3966.626,"text":"謝主席 我想請一下農業部陳部長陳部長"},{"start":3977.105,"end":4004.4,"text":"部長好因為今天主席特別安排了一個農保條例的審查那你剛才有特別針對說對於這次委員提出的版本其實農業部希望是先不去做這個調整那我想說因為在你的報告當中就有特別提到說到114年4月30號之後我們的農保覆蓋率有53.72%對不對那我想說因為這裡面能夠這麼高因為很大一部分是因為有強制納保的一個部分"},{"start":4005.04,"end":4021.257,"text":"那我想說如果扣除掉水稻跟豬肢的強生老婆還有20.7那聽起來也是挺高的比當時那個之前的陳宜仲部長他期待的數字還要高那我想特別看一下因為我針對這個也是"},{"start":4023.519,"end":4049.349,"text":"今年的4月30號當中的時候也是一個農業保險那個投保情況的表當中的時候我發現裡面有一些狀態數字其實坦白說很不漂亮啦比方說以禽流感來講的時候比方說我們看到說它整個投保的租資大概是716萬支可是部長你知道說我們整個那個台灣這邊所有的那個機資總共有多少支你知道嗎"},{"start":4050.914,"end":4069.826,"text":"豬肉還是雞?雞雞雞雞的部分多少隻?三億一千萬三億?三億一千萬隻三億一千萬隻如果三億一千萬隻只有700隻的話它的比例非常非常的低啦那我想說除了說禽流感這個部分我們如果有三億多隻的雞隻的時候呢"},{"start":4071.147,"end":4094.845,"text":"那跟這個部分 因為你的數字更大那表示統計的一個標準不一樣可是我們看到整個一個投保的一個機織顯然數字非常的低 非常的低那我另外再挑出一個狀態剛剛那邊特別提到了一個香蕉的一個植株的部分我們香蕉這邊目前只有79公頃我們全台灣香蕉的面積 種植面積有多大"},{"start":4096.932,"end":4108.399,"text":"大概1萬5、1萬6所以這比例也非常非常的低只有0.48% 0.5%都不到這數字也非常的不漂亮那另外的部分針對那個豬隻的運輸"},{"start":4113.021,"end":4133.896,"text":"跟豬隻的死亡的相關的保險數字也都很差豬隻的運輸的部分的時候大概只有我看到說如果說我們保險的數字只有25萬隻的時候相較於整體的台灣的一個豬隻來說比例大概5%不到那如果是針對死亡的部分的時候只有0.25%更低那我想說針對這樣子的一個狀態的是因為你剛剛提到說那個"},{"start":4138.959,"end":4166.385,"text":"排除掉我們強制納保的部分還有20%以上這數字看起來本來是不錯的數字可當我們看到這細部 個別品項我們必須有一些低的我們必須要去檢討那您剛才說的豬隻的運輸的保險的部分因為現在是自願式的嘛那我們會考量因為它從生產端到運輸端到土甲端我們希望是連在一起的所以我們會考慮它的強制性然後特別我也跟委員報告其實"},{"start":4167.465,"end":4190.393,"text":"這個平均20.7%裡面其實水產才是我們更需要去加強的那因為水產本身現在我所知道的投保率大概只有2.7%左右所以它也把整體的那個平均的保險規格率拉下來所以後續我們會針對比較特殊的品項包括您剛才講的香蕉如何去增進它的保險的"},{"start":4191.573,"end":4214.154,"text":"投保意願那很重要就是保費啦跟理賠金額農民本身的認知跟我們在做精算的時候的認知是不太一樣的所以我會盡可能讓農民了解很多保險他的保費比較高是因為他的風險高的時候他比保費的保費保額就會變高那這個部分可能"},{"start":4214.915,"end":4231.185,"text":"可能都要做更多的宣導理解 因為就像我們比方說一般人的保險不然是受險或者是殘險的部分它也是經過很長的時間的溝通然後慢慢讓民眾能夠接受農業保險這樣的一個新的概念從110年到現在開始推動的時候其實也就是大概4年5年不到的時間"},{"start":4235.327,"end":4259.308,"text":"所以我們希望這過程當中其實能夠農業部這邊能夠加緊一些腳步因為本系也認為農業保險是一件好的事情就不能只靠政府的一個天災救助的部分來解決農業的一個問題所以我們也希望說能夠透過民間然後市場的一個農業保險的方式的時候能夠讓台灣的農業更為茁壯然後讓農民能夠得到更大的一個保障那這過程當中我們就希望說農業部這邊有更"},{"start":4261.169,"end":4278.296,"text":"扎實然後更有強大的一個力量去推動它讓民眾能夠讓農民能夠真正知道說農業保險對他們的重要性所以我剛剛特別提到這個部分就是說20.7的數字感覺很漂亮可是細部來看的時候事實上是很不足的尤其像剛剛針對禽牛桿這部分數字就更低了所以我們希望說部長這邊針對這農業保險推廣的時候能夠更加緊"},{"start":4285.338,"end":4311.119,"text":"動作讓農民能夠真正了解好不好好我想我們會來努力來朝這個保單的一個我一直強調跟委員報告我一直強調我不會去追求保單的數量增加我會去要求保單的品質提高讓每一個保單就有很多人投保很多人投保以後他的保費風險分擔就會變低了有大數法則之後才能夠真的得到保險的價值跟功效啦對 這個是我的目標"},{"start":4314.482,"end":4336.074,"text":"是 理解 那我想請教一下 因為那個想請教部長 就是我們今年整個紅火椅的那個相關的一個房子預算大概有多少錢紅火椅預算多少紅火椅將近三千萬左右將近三千萬 去年其實有三千兩百萬那我想問 琉璃椅這邊有沒有房子經費"},{"start":4337.802,"end":4344.289,"text":"琉璃椅的部分琉璃椅我們沒有防治經費沒有防治經費嘛齁那為什麼沒有防治經費勒齁"},{"start":4346.532,"end":4365.378,"text":"最主要是琉璃蟻它本身不直接危害作物就認為它不是農業害蟲嘛對不對所以我們沒辦法編相關的這個進度我想請教一下因為那個琉璃蟻在2019年的時候那時候農業部這邊有針對一個目前它的一個危害的範圍我想說當時講出來的狀態是有9個縣市24個鄉鎮"},{"start":4370.239,"end":4398.036,"text":"都有琉璃椅的一個那個危害的一個範圍那我想說有沒有最新的一個數字最新的數字是範圍是多大我現在手邊沒這個資料可能後續再提供給委員因為這裡面很特殊因為新竹市也在這個琉璃椅的一個肆虐的範圍當中那針對這個部分很多民眾他們去去投書或檢舉的時候呢其實我們看到了比方說"},{"start":4400.337,"end":4408.625,"text":"農業部這邊因為你剛剛提到說因為你覺得他不是一個農業害蟲所以沒有辦法去做太多的一個動作然後另外就是環境部這邊也認為說"},{"start":4410.814,"end":4431.162,"text":"琉璃椅它其實是從農業這邊來的它就應該是農業部在管所以環境部他們也不管衛福部這邊的時候呢認為說琉璃椅它沒有傳染疾病所以他們也不管所以變成琉璃椅就變成一個大家都不管的一個情況那本席是認為農業部這邊的時候是不是應該把這部分把它給"},{"start":4432.743,"end":4447.136,"text":"這個工作把它接起來而不是各部會當中大家不斷的推皮球那因為我們目前針對這個琉璃椅的部分目前的狀態就是說給他們一個幼稚嘛就幼稚那農業部這邊建議的狀態的時候就是糖水加膨沙"},{"start":4448.277,"end":4464.866,"text":"就是調整成一個右繼去處理這個問題可是這個部分對於豐農是有影響的所以我們認為說目前如果說農業部還是不把琉璃役當作是一個農業害蟲的時候這事情其實是沒有解的"},{"start":4465.266,"end":4491.32,"text":"他就繼續的去肆虐擴大更大的一個範圍所以本席這邊是不是希望部長這邊能夠把這個事情把它擔當起來因為它是不是有一個農業害蟲的部分它其實是定義的問題就像我們目前的琉璃蟻的幼稷有些學者就說它對於蜂農是產生影響的所以這個部分是不是有可能請部長把琉璃蟻這件事情當做一件事情來對待"},{"start":4492.821,"end":4517.079,"text":"我想跟委員報告以我的立場我們既然已經看到一個問題雖然說農業部的定義來講它不屬於農業害蟲但是相對的它的確也在田裡面造成了一些困擾特別是芽蟲跟寄馬這個部分我們是可以透過這個方式所以我很願意針對這個工作"},{"start":4519.581,"end":4541.061,"text":"能夠跟衛務部正式啟動一個跨部會的協調因為不能只有農業部做因為居家環境而且是要用區域防治的概念區域防治的概念才有可能去把它降到最低啦所以這個部分我想我願意啟動這樣的一個跨部會的一個平台而不是互相推不是我的不是你的這樣子"},{"start":4541.641,"end":4567.539,"text":"OK 謝部長我覺得這是一個很正面的態度來面對這個問題那我們也希望這個後續有一些進度的時候再隨時跟本辦公室做一個回報好不好可以那另外最後一個問題就是因為現在的一個對美的一個關稅貿易談判當中的時候我想特別關注一個狀態其實就是茶葉的一個部分那茶葉的部分的時候台灣目前茶葉輸美大概是佔整個台灣出口的三成左右大概31對 31%"},{"start":4569.58,"end":4589.62,"text":"但是31%當中的時候因為我們看到整個茶葉的一個狀態的時候我們會發現整個茶葉出口的部分其實是用一個拼配的一個方式在做處理那拼配的這邊的時候就是跟洗產地這邊的時候我們要怎麼去做定義"},{"start":4590.28,"end":4603.19,"text":"部長這邊可不可以簡單做一個說明我跟委員報告其實台灣最強的就是我們的拼配的技術但是我們為了讓我們的國產茶本身有它的一定的一定的"},{"start":4604.626,"end":4627.131,"text":"認同所以你要標示為台灣茶的時候一定是要100%的茶葉用台灣的茶不能用拼配的方式那第二個部分是當你出口的時候你有超過55%去做實質轉型的時候你可以去掛我們的產地的部分但是你的標示裡面你還是要去標你的茶葉裡面的來源國啦"},{"start":4627.651,"end":4642.977,"text":"那這樣的話就不會被認為是息產地你如果只標台灣茶去出口但是裡面你可能混到越南茶混到其他國家的茶的時候那就會被誤認為息產地但是你的標示裡面你如果誠實標示的話就不會這樣子"},{"start":4644.978,"end":4661.334,"text":"你提這個點其實本席可以理解台灣茶認為要百分之百才能夠標入台灣茶不過我覺得這邊有個概念是英國茶的概念英國其實並沒有產茶葉可是英國的茶葉風行全世界那他們其實也是某一個部分其實也用拼配的方式在做所有的"},{"start":4661.814,"end":4681.75,"text":"後續的一個製造跟程序所以說本席這邊也希望說藉由這樣的一個關稅談判過程當中的時候把台灣的一個所謂的拼配茶這樣的一個定義當中的時候讓它更清楚然後讓我們其實台灣的茶農在跟國外在做相關出口的時候能夠有一個比較好的一個對待"},{"start":4682.771,"end":4702.439,"text":"那在這邊就請部長這邊針對這個拼配查這個部分的時候我們能夠好好去做一個新的定義然後讓我們的國際的貿易對象也能夠去理解台灣這邊的一個政策好不好我想我們會針對拼配查本身怎麼樣有利於我們國內的拼配查的外銷我想這部分我們會來努力"},{"start":4702.839,"end":4717.648,"text":"是因為目前看起來來說說台灣目前國產的茶葉其實已經沒有進口的茶葉多了所以拼配茶這部分肯定是台灣的一個茶葉的業者他們其實很關注的一個部分好不好是謝謝部長好 謝謝好 謝謝現在請張祺凱委員做詢答"},{"start":4749.978,"end":4767.646,"text":"請 陳部長陳部長各位好 今天要來搶救人命要談一個很觸目驚心 嚇人的光電開發案因為現在紅台聽要來"},{"start":4772.52,"end":4801.074,"text":"不要造成小林村土石流滅村的事件重演我們要非常嚴肅的看這個有媒體報導也有民眾來陳情非常有急迫性的問題我們共同來解決這個案子是發生在高雄的大樹區51公頃的山坡地陡峭的山坡地喔竟然"},{"start":4802.446,"end":4809.101,"text":"山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了網友你看這個圖這是現場的圖"},{"start":4813.732,"end":4840.712,"text":"右邊啊 這個黃圈圈這一塊啊這個土 山都被鏟平了已經放了 那個就是光光電板 都已經潑上去了另外裸露的這個地區紅色圈起來 綠色圈起來整個那個拖鞋的 那個本來就是山整個山坡地被鏟平了哇靚 你有看到這裡住這麼多居民嗎現在居民要陳情那你 或是你親友 你覺得住在那裡嗎"},{"start":4843.988,"end":4868.794,"text":"部長 如果是你 後你的親友現在住在那邊你敢不敢住 安全嗎從這張圖來判斷說 現在這裡的房子的安全性啊保定 這個媒體已經大肆的報導了民眾都來陳情了欸 你本來小林村那個妹村事件啊 土石流"},{"start":4870.853,"end":4890.043,"text":"這高雄的大樹區耶第二個現在極端的氣候都是那個暴雨雨就下的都很大對不對突然就來啊結果怎麼去把一座山挖掉這座山坡地很多都是穿過30%的我們明定是30%以上的躲的這個山坡地是建築開發的耶"},{"start":4892.382,"end":4918.364,"text":"我跟委員報告喔30公斤以上必須去委會來做環評審查嘛那開發還有開發許可那相對的我們同仁跟我講的就是說這些他的整個環評的部分水保計畫是已經被開罰嗎?已經被開罰了非常多次啊五次開罰這麼多次然後又危險那為什麼不把他停下來捏?後台聽要來捏?不定"},{"start":4922.24,"end":4929.493,"text":"這個市政府的權責不是農業部可以處理的啊現在有三個主管機關嘛對不對水土保持是你們管的嘛"},{"start":4930.916,"end":4956.184,"text":"水土保障 計畫的審查計畫審查 還是 也是令啊但是在市政府 也是市政府在執行市政府當然 高雄市也是個主管機關所以高雄市政府開罰嘛 對不對對 它有兩種罰 一種是罰錢啊一種就是這麼危險 東京直接停了來啊停的部分是地方政府地方政府跟你都是主管機關啊 你當初合的嘛那它現在有危險性不是我們合的喔地方政府合的喔"},{"start":4956.904,"end":4977.82,"text":"水土保存是你們合的嗎?他整個開發案是地方政府合的啊地方政府合,水土保存你們不用管嗎?你們來說明一下吧因為我覺得這是要非常明確全責的單位啦如果說農業部必須要處理的,我們就要盡到我們農業部的責任如果不是農業部能處理的,我們也不能說在這邊隨便承諾"},{"start":4980.962,"end":4994.027,"text":"對不對經濟部當然他們負責一部分嘛對不對開發那一塊啊你們水土保持嘛甚至他他現在沒有發現他已經越區去開發破壞的水土保持你們當然要做啊另外一個是地方政府是不是這樣"},{"start":4995.553,"end":5015.033,"text":"對 它所有的最後的核定都是地方政府不管你是水保三開計畫最後的核定都是地方政府我們是督導我們是法規的部分最後的審查跟核定是水保計畫還有執行都是地方政府所以你們督導到哪裡去了"},{"start":5015.984,"end":5030.035,"text":"你們都不用負責任嗎我們針對我們針對相關的法規的規定啊那如果說有很明確的那個我們可以跟地方政府 因為地方政府是核定的部長 人命關天不要推責任因為我的個性因為我的個性也不會推責任我們共同解決問題嘛第一個你有督導這個責任嘛對不對因為你現在已經發現問題了是不是要共同來解決問題"},{"start":5039.153,"end":5066.971,"text":"我想如果他是一個問題的話我覺得我們應該有跟地方政府溝通的一個責任希望他們能夠去落實依法去處理這個我想我們一定會做到馬上再去溝通好不好來我們看一看危險性到哪邊來來看看這個問題當然出在中央跟地方都有狀況來你看看這麼大一個山51公頃他現在做光電板高達46"},{"start":5069.77,"end":5094.813,"text":"下一年營收可以有四億兩千萬我們政府在推光電的時候你們注意到人民的財產生命安全有沒有生態保護的這個問題還是你們重視的只是光電業者的利益呢當有衝突的時候當然立即趕快去處理啊你看這個多危險紅色圈圈現在是暗場所在的TG區紅色的你看"},{"start":5097.093,"end":5120.866,"text":"左邊這個地方是斷層地質敏感地帶離那個暗場大概只有不到5公里這麼近喔另外綠色這個線第三個劃過來了這個紅圈圈這個地方土壤異化高潛勢區另外還有一個順向坡右下角這個粉紅色的歷年來就發生過好幾次山坡地災害的位置了"},{"start":5122.441,"end":5143.197,"text":"這個地區這麼嚴重 結果以前已經有多次的這個受害了結果你把山挖山砍平 把樹砍掉這是政府跟農業部跟經濟部在推這個光電的原意嗎當人民的財產生命安全受到影響 生態受到影響的時候"},{"start":5145.263,"end":5173.26,"text":"光電業者的利益那麼重要嗎所有的光電的開發案或其他的開發案的話我想政府有一定的相關的審查的遊戲規則跟審查的基準那不管是在斷能地區所提到的或是高風險區的部分他的審查的條件會更嚴苛所以當他業者沒有照這個方式去處理的話就會所謂的剛才說的所謂的開罰的部分然後開罰到某個程度不行的話可能就會"},{"start":5174.281,"end":5191.55,"text":"廢紙嘛那這個部分我剛才說了如果是地方政府的權責我們會盡量去跟地方政府溝通但是相關的審查本身它有一定的標準而不是說我們為了光電的利益而去犧牲掉我們人民的安全這個我想我們絕對不會做正事"},{"start":5192.73,"end":5215.617,"text":"就是速度要快,我剛剛講了兩個第一我要講如果鬧出人命,不是只有財產受到影響鬧出人命就有刑責的問題嘛,對不對,這在那邊喔,要看起來喔第二個更重要怎麼說,訪台廳已經來了嘛現在大家已經注意到這個問題,趕快解決問題啊來,你現在一直在說葛永新高雄市陳其邁讓人家負責任嘛他暖男市長啊,有心急的"},{"start":5216.954,"end":5244.926,"text":"結果前陣子已經發生那個清達電廠3號機跟4號機沒有許可沒有許可的狀況之下開始燒煤炭大家已經去追他的責任啊這一個也是人命關天的啊他當然要負起責任啊他如果解決民調才會高嘛如果出入民調當然會掉下來嘛一樣啊中央部會從經濟部跟經濟部會追農業部讓我們負起責任嘛來看一下你們自己嘛水土保持法第十九條"},{"start":5246.815,"end":5271.709,"text":"這你管的嘛 對不對所以趕快跟地方好好去討論那個地方啊有那個南河岩那邊有一個南河岩水土保持這些都想你管的這裡沒有化為特定的水土保持區域所以就沒有所謂的禁止開發的行為所以當初那個水土保持完全都通過嗎 沒有任何問題嗎"},{"start":5272.898,"end":5278.361,"text":"沒有,我沒有參加這個審查我剛才說的,所謂的審查我們一定有一定的遊戲規則而且審查也不是一個人來決定它是一個召集相關的委員會去處理的啦所以"},{"start":5288.387,"end":5307.942,"text":"我現在不確定這個案子本身是不是如同你說的因為我沒有辦法從照片裡面畫出來的東西說說它是安全或是危險這我沒有辦法確認我會去確認說我也不會說因為媒體報導它危險就認定它危險我們一定會去更詳細的了解這個案子本身"},{"start":5308.643,"end":5332.335,"text":"以他的用專業的角度去看說他是不是真的是落實危險 如果是危險的話我們一定會第一時間跟縣市政府請他們提醒他們去做相關的事情部長我們跟時間下來 人命歡天 好來那我們解決問題來所以請農業部在一個禮拜內提出來你們當初怎麼核准這個案的開發的申請文件跟核准的資料"},{"start":5333.084,"end":5361.153,"text":"還有相關的這時間點可以嗎這是地方政府我剛才說的是地方政府核准的啊不是我們有關於你們的這個你們農業部當初完全沒有沒有參與嗎我們只有在農地沒有你們沒有角色呢當然也有經過你們啊農業部就廢掉了這麼重大事情怎麼可能也經過你們沒有我們可以表示意見但是我剛才講的決定權核准權是在內政部的區委會"},{"start":5362.557,"end":5371.954,"text":"不是農業部合或不合我們是在處理農地變更那農地變更本身如果區委會同意的時候我們才進行農地變更這樣子"},{"start":5373.206,"end":5402.305,"text":"你們是督導嘛 你剛才說要隨機高雄市政府聯絡嘛 對不對對 我們會來協調 但是我剛才說的我們不是全責單位 我們沒辦法直接介入至少對你的全責督導那部分來你兩座內 請高雄市政府把那個 還有你農業部當初怎麼核准的水保計畫 我說的 我們沒有核准嘛怎麼一直叫我們拿核准的文件 我們沒有核准啊所以你們完全在水保計畫這塊完全不負責任嗎所以 老實講老實講 要主管的講 怎麼可能完全沒有我請我們的法治好不好"},{"start":5404.259,"end":5429.924,"text":"我們一定的規則不是說照規則當然有督導啦有參與啊怎麼可能農業部就廢掉了不是嗎委員報告一下水保計畫的核定在水保法裡面有明定的很清楚原則上都是直轄市縣市政府的核准除了中央興建的工程才是我們農業部來核准所以水保計畫的核定就是有民間開發都是由地方政府來做核准"},{"start":5431.064,"end":5455.703,"text":"要跟您做個說明所以這個案子的開發案它一定要擬水保計畫它不是19條的特定水保禁止開發它是個開發案是內政部核准的開發案那在開發的當時一定會開挖整地嘛那只要在山坡地做開挖整地依水保法12條的規定就要擬水保計畫報經地方政府做核定"},{"start":5456.664,"end":5469.714,"text":"核定完以後依照水保計畫來做實施並監督跟委員報告所以你們現在所以到底農業部的角色是什麼除了你剛剛講的督導要去國中之外呢"},{"start":5471.417,"end":5500.556,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們中央在水保法裡面的角色除了剛剛講說中央的工程是我們核水保計畫我們還是法規的主管機關法規那我們水保計或者水保我們也住監督剛剛我們的主秘也說得很清楚是說監督所以地方如果有一些執行不是很妥適的我們會來了解那在這個案子就我們所知地方政府有做裁罰他有用水保法去做裁罰也勒令停工了"},{"start":5500.936,"end":5525.874,"text":"所以吹爆法該做的裁罰地方政府都做了所以站在我們督導主管機關的立場他不是我們可以去做了解他不是不裁罰他如果不裁罰我中央當然要介入那現在目前來講他已經有裁罰勒令停工你們先盡你們督導的這個責任對不對包含你剛剛講法規有沒有被誤解這個地方第二個你剛剛講裁罰就是民眾跟媒體現在為什麼跳起來"},{"start":5527.83,"end":5535.979,"text":"人命關天的事情現在只有罰錢嘛然後就一直做嘛我都懂他一年可以賺到錢一年收四億多你去罰那個小錢那當然就繼續做啊他有熱定停工嘛有熱定停工好一部分啦台水剛來的消息沒有"},{"start":5547.352,"end":5562.065,"text":"他那個地是台水的沒關係你去查清楚現在不要各說各話因為我的這邊的消息來源是台水來的我要質詢你之前我特別去問好不好那沒有的話就要熱令到田工趕快把安全做好尤其是訪台廳這段時間"},{"start":5563.286,"end":5588.911,"text":"我剛才說的齁 這個詳情我們會跟高雄市政府去了解然後高雄政府如果依法已經做了一些決定或停工的話他也是依水保計畫相關的處罰嘛那就結了嘛 就跟農業部是沒有特別的關係嘛對對 東田你已經看裡面停工嘛 現在台水那邊人家消息就沒有那有 沒有的話就趕快去處理這件事情好不好那另外做一件比較整體的 保定 做一個比較整體的山坡地 咱知道說過了 山坡地"},{"start":5589.929,"end":5606.634,"text":"整個生態的這個問題 安全問題嘛你是不是能夠一個月內比較完整針對國內山坡地跟開發重電的光電這個問題做一個檢討跟報告出來你的生態保護啊 你的山坡地的保護啊這個題目好大"},{"start":5608.418,"end":5625.871,"text":"這個題目很大你那現在出現這種地方蠻多的啦你有發現台灣現在有一個要重電啦沒有第一個你的漁電共生一些漁溫已經被犧牲了對不對那一些農地一部分現在連山坡地都開始砍樹挖山因為山坡地本身的界定齁"},{"start":5626.952,"end":5647.667,"text":"他跟他的那個羊角是有關的那山坡地本身能夠讓他開發光電或其他的開發工程的話一定是經過審查的一定都是個案審查的那你要告我你要我說把全台灣的山坡地的這些光電的這些政策跟立場這個沒辦法沒辦法沒辦法說明的因為他都是個案在處理的"},{"start":5648.151,"end":5668.793,"text":"副長,就是這個案子出問題嘛,所以你說高雄市政府開始裁罰嘛對不對,奧先生說他要勒令停工或是要停嘛,不能只有罰錢嘛那你是督導單位你要進去,這是第一個,第一個是個案嘛第二個我是要跟你講,有沒有類似的個案是有危險性的,你先去清一遍嘛我剛剛已經講了喔,這有行程問題喔,如果你的山坡地這樣開發出問題"},{"start":5670.558,"end":5679.193,"text":"那主管機關要不要把他扣起來這個有刑責問題喔不要說於心何人啦人民的財產生命安全這如果鬧出人命怎麼辦"},{"start":5680.424,"end":5705.423,"text":"是不是 於心不安的同時還有選擇啊沒有 所有的開發都有開發許可嘛啊就是開發出了問題所以才要你去查嘛那如果去查沒有問題當然就沒事啊那就是地方政府的問題啊部長你怎麼一直把責任推給地方政府地方要負一部分責任 中央你剛剛講你要督導 你要去解釋對不對現在包括有高雄的地方在哪裡等一下看民進黨立委會不會上來要求要做這件事情"},{"start":5706.324,"end":5727.462,"text":"這部分黨派人民的生命財產安全中央跟地方本來就是分工的啊農業部的職權我可以介入處理的我一定介入處理我可以溝通了解的我一定溝通了解嘛這是跨部會的問題我最後只要一個東西針對國內的山坡地特別是開發去種田去光電的到底安不安全"},{"start":5728.283,"end":5738.721,"text":"你去清一下好不好有發生像這樣的事情我可以了解說現在的山坡地裡面有多少的光電暗場那到底安不安全絕對我沒辦法去判斷"},{"start":5740.865,"end":5762.053,"text":"先去看安不安全嘛 對不對沒有 我沒有辦法判斷它安不安全因為它如果被許可的話就是一個安全的那我可以在一個月之內去調所有的山坡地有水保計畫 有光電暗場的資料這個可以處理但是要我去判斷說它安不安全這個我沒辦法做到那你就全部 一個一個先調出來好不好做一個簡單總結 保定保定"},{"start":5765.305,"end":5791.121,"text":"我們是支持要發展綠電的可是光電發展到現在我已經問過你好幾次了餘電共生你看我們多少餘溫 多少農民的生活都受到影響了這是第一類 所以我上次就說我知道你們壓力可能很大啦一方面要充分供電一方面老講那些業者 老實講你們壓力到我可是你們要多站在人民的立場農民的立場 人民的財產安全的立場"},{"start":5792.72,"end":5812.743,"text":"來我最後說一個總結你看八十幾年的時候台灣一直在推BOT那時候有一部電影很有名叫海角7號它裡面這樣講土地也要BOT山也要BOT連我們面對的大海都要BOT它是我們台灣的海這麼漂亮可是我們自己都看不到"},{"start":5813.7,"end":5832.794,"text":"那是在諷刺我們VOT 氾濫又出了一堆問題我們現在光電也出了一堆問題這樣搞下去連山坡地都產平了台灣還剩下什麼所以政府有責任啊你在光電推動的時候光電業者的利益不能夠侵犯到我們人民的財產和生命安全嘛"},{"start":5834.074,"end":5843.681,"text":"這一定的啊我今天一整個質詢從前幾天問你的漁電共生到今天山坡地被剷平樹被砍掉這是我們台灣人民要的嗎"},{"start":5845.285,"end":5868.74,"text":"這是政府一開始要推動光電藥的嘛 出問題要解決問題如果他申請剛出過了但是他後續沒有依照水保計畫去執行就會開罰嘛所以這個部分我想我們會來做啦在整個申請過程當然有法律的依據啦可是老實講很多申請案子過了以後一出現一堆弊案嘛所以才需要事後好好去追嘛現在媒體為什麼報導這麼大 民眾已經在申請嘛我們不能解決問題啦"},{"start":5870.1,"end":5886.824,"text":"都站在人民的立場 特別幫人民解決財產跟生命安全 說實在的我今天提出的指示很重要喔 紅台聽來喔如果因為我今天 我已經提醒大家了出了問題 不是只有良心不安 這有刑事責任 人會抓去關 謝謝好 謝謝 現在請鄭天才委員做詢答"},{"start":5907.825,"end":5933.392,"text":"主席 各位委員有請部長陳部長部長好農業保險已經實施差不多10年了現在已經113年度你們的資料是說投保27萬件"},{"start":5935.995,"end":5950.026,"text":"總共23.4萬公頃這樣的一個數字按照你的報告裡面還提到到這個就以今年來講投保19.1萬件15.8萬公頃覆蓋率目前是53.72"},{"start":5963.955,"end":5987.409,"text":"53.72這樣的覆蓋率經過是10年來算嗎還是從109開始算應該從110年吧現在是當下當下的平均投保率現在嗎對 去年的啦 以去年的這樣還是有非常需要加強的空間對不對"},{"start":5990.549,"end":5997.827,"text":"因為這樣的覆蓋率我個人認為就是整個投保的覆蓋率"},{"start":5998.991,"end":6027.446,"text":"不是一直一味的一直拉高我們希望說每一張保單有它的保單的設計是符合農民需要而且它的每一張保單的投保人數是多的那整個投保覆蓋率本身又牽扯到有的保單剛剛開始有的保單還沒設計它品項太多了嘛所以我想我們未來會要求投保的保單的品質而不是衝保單的數量品質好"},{"start":6029.4,"end":6037.828,"text":"那我們就看這個理賠率好了這個到今年4月理賠12.5萬件總理賠金額60.6億你說理賠率怎麼樣?理賠率130%"},{"start":6051.4,"end":6072.71,"text":"理賠率那理賠的金額每件大概平均多少就要看不同的那個就像您剛才講的27萬件23.4萬公頃嘛那相對的一除的話大概就是幾萬塊吧大概就這樣子所以他這個以理賠12.5萬件總理賠金額60.6億的話"},{"start":6079.963,"end":6092.406,"text":"就是平均那另外剛剛說我如果理賠率是130%的話就是我保費收了100塊可是我賠了130塊就這種概念所以換句話說農民會增加了這個30塊的的一個貨到這個理賠以現在的數字數字60.6億來算的話差不多48000多了"},{"start":6110.911,"end":6115.094,"text":"平均4萬8千多也不是很高啦保險不是用來賺錢的所以這個部分是怎麼樣去精進的"},{"start":6132.321,"end":6140.606,"text":"因為經過如果你這邊寫說自104年推動以來表示還沒有這個法例的時候就開始推動了嘛"},{"start":6142.241,"end":6163.002,"text":"我跟委員報告,其實如果要談到農業保險,那最佳的理賠率應該是70%到80%因為再一加一些行政成本嘛,那這樣的話就能夠攤平整個的系統那現在理賠率超過百分之百,超過百分之百表示說很多保單因為保的人數太少"},{"start":6164.043,"end":6177.852,"text":"保單流出太少的時候 它保費沒有辦法被分擔風險沒辦法被分擔所以我們的目標就是要讓更多人設計出一個好的保單讓更多人來投保讓這個保險的那個理賠率能夠降到70%到80%左右"},{"start":6181.912,"end":6195.581,"text":"就是因為有這樣的一個實際的狀況實際實行的情形所以我們召委才會提出這個修農業保險法第10條"},{"start":6197.122,"end":6226.223,"text":"怎麼樣能夠當然這個部分等一下如果有主條的話討論的話是可以再討論這個怎麼樣讓這個條文更好當然他這個利益良善就是希望這個補助比例授權給主管機關因應農業發展的需要能夠定期檢討這個部分是一個"},{"start":6227.574,"end":6239.462,"text":"怎麼樣因為有時候條文有時候硬梆梆的如果我們基本上農業部我們都會相信農業部是會照顧農民是以農民的"},{"start":6240.926,"end":6267.944,"text":"這個利益的一個尤其是相關的應該他之所以會要理賠就是因為符合理賠的條件所以這個部分是這個部分當然你們有你們的一個考量這個在你們的資料裡面這個補助刪除補助比例是不是不利還是有利在你們的報告裡面都有都有提到"},{"start":6269.065,"end":6283.785,"text":"所以這個部分你們的理解按照你們對於這個條文的修正的理解就是說增加第二項前項補助比例主管基本考量農業發展之需要定期檢討調整"},{"start":6286.185,"end":6306.572,"text":"這樣的文字跟你原來的線型條文的施行後第六年起以60%為上限是不利是嗎?還是有利?我跟委員報告,我非常感謝委員包括謝議員委員還有其他兩位委員的版本那其中有一個重要的就是"},{"start":6307.797,"end":6328.525,"text":"這些補助的比例應該要考量農業發展的需要定期的檢討調整這個我覺得我們也在做我們絕對認同那至於說把第六年以後的60%刪掉那那個刪掉了以後反而會造成法的不確定性的空間它可以是0也可以是100"},{"start":6329.847,"end":6353.511,"text":"就是沒有一個完整的敘述因為前面只是敘述75%而已嘛那如果說敘述75%然後講的是前項補助的話那就會有點邏輯不通就是說因為你刪掉了後面6年那你的現在紅色的前項的部分就是去調整前面5年可是前面5年已經過了啦"},{"start":6354.714,"end":6377.563,"text":"所以這個部分我覺得農業部我們未來在調溫的足調審查的時候我想我們會提出一些我們的精進的作為那我都知道委員都是為了農民希望鼓勵農民來增加投保的前提那同樣的我們可以設計一些誘因來"},{"start":6379.824,"end":6395.843,"text":"增加農民投保的這些意願這個我想我們在未來在主條審查的時候我們會提出一些想法來跟委員做一個報告這個我們討論的時候一定要考量到"},{"start":6397.037,"end":6421.11,"text":"農民啊然後尤其是我們考量到這個目前的執行的狀況所以這個比例怎麼樣去決定雖然是授權給你們但是前面怎麼樣去譬如說幾個例子啊其補助第一項啊補助比例不得低於多少假設補助比例不得低於60%不得低於60%"},{"start":6425.885,"end":6451.63,"text":"然後第二項其補助比例你還可以往60以上還可以增加給你彈性我問你你講的就是另外一件事情你說不得低於那農業部是絕對反對的啦因為保險本身是一個對價的一個關係如果所有東西都由政府承擔有太多的道德風險我想委員也經常在產業看嘛這個部長"},{"start":6453.031,"end":6466.022,"text":"這個就是我剛剛只是一個給你討論的方向因為有第二項嘛前項補助比例給你去檢討嘛所以那個第一項的文字怎麼樣去修的會更好"},{"start":6467.292,"end":6488.726,"text":"這個部分我們當初的想法就是第一項不刪六年的話後面那項留著就很好因為兩個都會考慮對 因為那個以本法實行後五年內以75%為上限那個已經過了嘛所以已經文字不需要啦所以第一項看怎麼改會更好我們到時候再一起討論 好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":6493.027,"end":6505.957,"text":"好謝謝現在請賴銳榮委員做詢答謝主席請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":6512.114,"end":6538.387,"text":"陳部長 先請教一下 先恭喜其實亞洲成為了這個口蹄疫跟非洲豬瘟跟傳統豬瘟的非裔國亞洲的唯一的一個非裔國 這個非常的重要這個未來台灣應該持續的會把我們的好的豬肉銷往世界各國吧才有更好的一些收益吧會的 我想第一個部分就是我們成為三大豬瘟非裔國的"},{"start":6539.963,"end":6566.313,"text":"我們另一個階段我們會持續的守成這個很重要這個很重要一定要守成然後這個機會我們是很少因為全亞洲兩個唯一的一個我們針對幾個目標市場國因為以前傳統豬瘟存在不容易外銷現在都可以去做會鎖定哪幾個目標市場國我想幾個主要的日本早期的日本是一個我們豬肉外銷日本還有其他的嗎那還有本身"},{"start":6567.771,"end":6586.375,"text":"東南亞的地區新加坡新加坡菲律賓的部分都有菲律賓都會去東南亞的國家都有我們希望把台灣豬肉的品牌往上提升就像很多新的國家比如說很多人講到西班牙的伊比利豬肉想要很多的時候我們就會講到那我們希望台灣的豬肉品牌也能夠持續在國際上讓這個豬肉持續在國際上是"},{"start":6589.236,"end":6616.71,"text":"台灣的豬肉是被認為是國際上品質非常好的一個豬肉我們認為這個也是提升台灣整體的一個形象是部長會朝這個方向嗎會 我們會朝這個方向好 那明年所以剛剛這幾個國家都要來推動嘛對不對對 我想菲律賓的已經現在已經同意我們可以輸出了嘛菲律賓同意了對 菲律賓同意了新加坡也同意了同意了那現在就是日本我們會開始其中跟他做一個談判日本還在談判當中對"},{"start":6617.831,"end":6645.388,"text":"那預定什麼時候會這個我想我們會努力因為我們現在日本也設了農業組嘛我們希望說用更積極的態度去溝通那麼預定說將來在外銷的那個量部分達到一個什麼樣的目標明年有沒有設定一個目標的量我們現在正在跟業者討論因為現在目前銷日本的他有不同的類別生鮮的以外還有一些加工的加工的部分他們現在銷的還不錯啦他現在通路已經建立了"},{"start":6645.948,"end":6674.787,"text":"好像跟日本的西武鐵道公司整建立了那以後生鮮如果談得上的話就可以搭接在現在的通路往前走那這個部分我想我們會繼續努力好再抓一下一個可能預估目標的量好不好對我們會來跟越野談完以後我們當然希望提升台灣豬肉的品質也讓這個豬肉有更好的一些收益是好那另外回到今天的這個我看了一下整個這個報告裡面其實"},{"start":6676.048,"end":6697.926,"text":"到現在為止從這個實施了四年我們這個法實施了四年多來那如果要照現在委員們的修法的話把這個第六年起的60%的上限文字拿掉的話那等同未來幾乎是形同五年內是75%那第六年之後有些可能就完全是沒有上限的規定了"},{"start":6698.226,"end":6719.185,"text":"那我看來 農業部覺得這個是有不確定性嗎 有所擔憂嗎是 我想第六年以後拿掉 因為它是一個上限拿掉的話 可以是0也可以是100那個不確定性就非常高 那當初訂這個法的時候是希望一開始的時候能夠給政府單位補助的一個"},{"start":6720.066,"end":6734.815,"text":"指導就是前面5年比較辛苦大家不認知農民比較不認識這個保險所以補助比例最高是75然後慢慢的推廣的時候農民知道這樣的保險的重要性那補助的比例可以下降到6%當初的立法"},{"start":6737.056,"end":6747.219,"text":"75、60這樣慢慢的來不要依靠政府的補助來然後以現在來講我們大概是二分之一然後地方政府有時候會多也會補30%或40%但是它不會影響這個上限"},{"start":6750.64,"end":6770.128,"text":"所以現在最高的大概是給50不住50以實際狀況上是如此啦那反倒是如果把這個東西拿掉之後反倒是像主委部長講的是0到100多反而產生一些不明確性所以我覺得這個可能在整個到時候可能我們再討論到時候再做討論那另外我想請教其實"},{"start":6771.888,"end":6793.517,"text":"農業的損失像現在年均大概121億其實農業保險是真的有必要性但是在推動上面的時候現在現金的救助大概是佔25%大概75%等於是農民自己要自行來負擔這樣的損失所以我們當然也希望未來更多的農業保險的推動的時候能夠讓"},{"start":6794.617,"end":6807.192,"text":"更多農民參與進來的時候能夠讓這樣的一個這個農民的遭受這些風險能夠降低不要承受那麼大的一個風險那但是好像成效上不是那麼好部長怎麼來看怎麼來推動"},{"start":6810.415,"end":6826.77,"text":"我想第一個部分就是整個天然災害本身我們是希望就是以補助它的成本的20%為上限但是現在因為天然災害的頻度越來越高以去年來講我們整個的天然災害救助金花了84億"},{"start":6828.391,"end":6843.114,"text":"是蠻高的啦所以怎麼樣讓我們的農業保險能夠去補足天然災害的不足那這個部分我覺得才是要去思考的重點所以後續我們會去看哪一些天然災害風險比較高的"},{"start":6844.244,"end":6869.318,"text":"的品項那天然災害本身絕對有限那這個時候的農業保險就要加強力道去做這個方面的處理我希望部長針對每一個的在深入去那個之後然後跟農民去做溝通啦因為農民大家感受到政府的補助進來讓我做這個保險之後我能夠達到效益的時候他當然才比較有意願嘛如果說效益上不大那當然大家就會想要"},{"start":6870.198,"end":6897.044,"text":"賭賭看嘛賭過了就不賠嘛但是賭不過的話那就慘了但是一定要把那個每一個狀況給分析出來這樣才有辦法讓那個然後政府的補助到多少能達到那個效益那這樣子才有辦法達到讓更多的農民加入這個保險的部分好不好請部長再更細緻的去把它給抓出來這樣才能夠達到比較小那再要請教一下其實如果我們把強制型的扣掉的話其實"},{"start":6897.964,"end":6903.308,"text":"整個保險率其實是偏低的20.7如果把強制的話20.7這其實是在推進了4年還20.7這樣成效部長應該不滿意吧我覺得還好"},{"start":6911.864,"end":6932.434,"text":"還好啦 但是20.7的一個平均裡面 我覺得水產特別低 水產才2.7而已那水產又把一些的平均值拉下來那我一直強調就是說 我希望我們的保單的品質要提升讓更多人來投保 那個保單才有它的風險分擔的價值"},{"start":6934.355,"end":6961.211,"text":"部長也點出來其實20我覺得還有成長的空間那水的水產品更低啦更需要努力2點多而已的話那這個呢你看我們來看一下水產品這一個啦其實從106年的20件到107年的19件降到了去年只有剩6件這個整個持續在降啦那幾乎推行的結果反倒是降了所以我當然知道現在原來補助是三分之一現在有可能會補到二分之一我們現在補到二分之一有送10件進來了嗎"},{"start":6964.833,"end":6983.932,"text":"應該10件都會給予支持吧應該會吧10件支持至少比去年的6件就增加了我還是希望部長針對這些水產品的部分再去加強我們先來努力啦因為我覺得它一定是某個環節我們的保端的設計是讓漁民無感的啦"},{"start":6984.592,"end":6999.887,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們會努力來這個保險一定是這樣啦你政府有給我補貼了補到了三分之一甚至補到二分之一我還是只有這些建設要來限燃他沒有感覺他還是要去讀讀看所以表示說在政策上應該還可以再更怎麼樣去針對這個問題現在看來是"},{"start":7002.909,"end":7019.216,"text":"石斑、鰻魚跟鵝魚嘛那我覺得應該還可以再找到更有效的方法去讓更多農民加入只有更多的農民加入保險才能夠比較確保他們整體的收益啦那特別現在的青農越來越多的時候也許可以努力看看去溝通好不好請部長再加強力道啦好 謝謝林黛華委員質詢完休息五分鐘現在請林黛華委員做詢答"},{"start":7043.25,"end":7043.754,"text":"有請部長陳部長"},{"start":7050.642,"end":7064.617,"text":"本席針對糧食自主率這個議題受到持續下降我們檢討它的原因其中有一項特別要跟部長來做討論就是地緣政治風險下的農業邊防的檢疫因與時俱進農業因盛防灰色威脅所造成的傷害"},{"start":7073.746,"end":7099.887,"text":"好在這個非洲我們的這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株的非疫區這是非常不容易的一個成果那但是呢我們的這個威脅是存在的所以在這個非洲豬瘟的飄死豬還是成豬扑熊的出現在我們的海防那包括這個農業的灰色危機這個我也舉了一個美國的"},{"start":7100.407,"end":7124.456,"text":"案例好那在這個甚至呢在推波助瀾在農業自動化之下這樣的農業灰色威脅也開始了自動化這對於我們現在比較艱困的糧食自主率的下降當中我們應該怎麼樣的一些因應好在世界動物衛生組織當中我們在法國在法國舉行台灣在會中取得了傳統"},{"start":7126.016,"end":7151.79,"text":"租溫非異國的認證成為亞洲唯一擁有非洲租溫以及傳統租溫及口蹄三大諸之並證的非異區的地位農業部房檢署的同仁是功不可沒但這個威脅卻並未消失我們要如何謹慎因應這當中我們的總統也提到了幾個方向持續強化"},{"start":7153.672,"end":7166.746,"text":"邊境房檢以及提升競爭力好我們就來檢討我們現在的房檢現況跟未來好在非洲豬瘟的部分自中國發生非洲豬瘟的時候一直到去年6月26號金門都還出現非洲豬瘟的病死豬"},{"start":7171.351,"end":7190.885,"text":"而這在回溯到4年前110年4月的時候也出現了非洲豬瘟的病史豬漂流到新北他不是我們傳統認為中國來的會是在金門馬祖竟然在4年前是漂到新北好那這個呢我們來看"},{"start":7193.126,"end":7216.708,"text":"美国他是怎么积极的因应这样的一个边境防疫不分龙鱼跟鳞的部分好他们在前几天6月3号的时候美国的司法部起诉了两名的科学家他们呢起诉他呢他们这个走私带入美国的真菌为核古联包菌"},{"start":7217.749,"end":7236.489,"text":"這個河谷聯包郡就是右邊這樣的一個報導當中這四個塑膠袋每一個塑膠袋就是一個郡租這郡租當中裡面內含了多少的郡司跟郡總在裡面郡司在裡面可能是千萬"},{"start":7237.63,"end":7258.531,"text":"這樣一包裡面這一小顆你們可能有千千萬萬顆在裡面就好像我皮革力可能大家比較好理解就是我們的這個常常為一般國人所苦的像香港腳他腳但是這個真菌這樣的菌類附著在腳上了所以就有香港香港腳這個東西概念是一樣的好所以這樣的菌"},{"start":7259.432,"end":7288.031,"text":"附上到我的農業的這個品種上的時候種下去當中該真菌會被認定為可能為農業恐怖攻擊的潛力武器而這個東西呢他們追溯是在三年前就展開他今年起訴這樣的中國科學家但是發現到他們在三年前就展開這樣的規模的規劃跟進行為什麼他要做這件事情呢因為這個核包聯包菌核穀聯包菌多麼厲害會造成小麥大麥玉米"},{"start":7289.432,"end":7314.173,"text":"稻米的刺霉病这个小麦大麦玉米在美国他们是饲料在是作为饲料用台湾的稻米我们是人在吃的所以这样的菌丝在美国如果未来在台湾发生的时候会导致牲口人类的呕吐吃下去之后种出来然后有了这些霉菌之后然后就会"},{"start":7315.294,"end":7336.034,"text":"有这种牲口人类呕吐肝损伤甚至缺陷及刺癌所以为什么美国的针对这样的边境防疫这么的谨慎因应好那这个农业自动化下这样的农业的灰色威胁可能也就自动化怎么说呢我就以这个为例河谷联包菌"},{"start":7336.654,"end":7360.888,"text":"的擴散樣態它可以透過自然界擴散它可以透過人為的自動化載具的擴散如果在自然界這樣的河谷蓮苞菌它附著在玉米跟水稻的一個種子上生長而導致這樣的植物發病之後在它的子蘭苞只成熟噴出之後藉著自然的氣流風雨的傳播整片的田野"},{"start":7361.909,"end":7377.905,"text":"就這樣一顆我一粒米我一粒玉米或一粒水稻它裡面有這樣的菌絲菌種這樣存在之後這樣它的噴出來成熟噴出來之後藉著自然的風雨傳播跟"},{"start":7379.086,"end":7397.508,"text":"氣流整片田野就染病了那也透過人為的這樣的自動載具這樣的河谷連包具呢就是只要融入這個液態的肥料透過各種自動化的設備如果像無人機右上角所示的圖片它噴灑在農田它不需要附著在物種"},{"start":7398.089,"end":7402.632,"text":"他只要噴灑在這個肥料裡面 液態肥料裡面這樣一灑 哇 這樣全田也都腫這個都懶病了所以這樣的農業的灰色威脅令作物大幅減產和失去使用價值嚴重威脅到我們的糧食自主和食品安全好 我們來看本席在意的這樣的糧食自主率"},{"start":7422.885,"end":7450.018,"text":"這樣的糧食自主率當中這個呢國內因應旱災的政策優先順序一定先停工農業灌溉用水那所以呢農業部去年公布的112年的糧食供需年報當中很呈現了剛好112年是百年旱災台灣的糧食自主率持續下降所以一直到2023年我們還跌到18年新低喔這個前年在水稻方面112年加難"},{"start":7452.439,"end":7457.222,"text":"平原的停灌導致水稻的減產減產了10.7萬公噸使我們的穀類糧食自足率從111年的26.6%下降到25.5%好我就以美國個案"},{"start":7468.889,"end":7479.215,"text":"如果我國若招式類似的農業灰色攻擊將會使原有的穀類特別是稻米的糧食自主力出現更大的衝擊將嚴重影響到國內糧食穩定好我在這邊建請農業部你們做要做精進了現有的防檢跟防疫要做精進我絕對肯定這個防檢署的這個同仁的努力或者我們不會是亞洲在這個"},{"start":7499.107,"end":7519.132,"text":"這個非疫區的這樣的豬瘟能夠拔疫而且是亞洲第一的非疫區但是是不是要面臨針對糧食危機所因應的這個我們邊境的這個防檢跟防疫我們是不是應該要更精進呢那所以呢對於防檢的部分你們就了解一下國際先進國家對於農業邊防的管制跟檢驗的方案類似"},{"start":7525.414,"end":7537.681,"text":"尤其類似這樣的真菌株的查驗困難因為本席非常的好奇我都想瞭解你看這第五頁右上角這個菌是他們美國怎麼查獲你說株質這麼大體我還可以去看這樣的這樣的一個河谷聯胞菌在右邊這樣子他怎麼查我我個人都很好奇"},{"start":7548.547,"end":7549.79,"text":"我們本部當中的這個防檢的同仁你們怎麼來防檢呢這個我都很好奇所以這個第一個"},{"start":7558.649,"end":7561.251,"text":"你們就要經濟你們的參考一下新進國家怎麼做這是第二個呢這個經濟農業防疫的機制預防威脅還是剩餘事後的處理農業部應該積極主動掌握國內主要的經濟物種不管是榮 漁 畜產等他可能遭遇的毀滅性影響的病原資訊"},{"start":7581.443,"end":7600.97,"text":"為什麼我講這句話呢因為這個您也是學者出身啊所以呢我絕對相信我們的農業專家國內的農業學者或專家他絕對知道我的主要經濟作物他可能會有哪些毀滅性影響的病原資訊那我們農業部通常都怎麼做就是"},{"start":7601.69,"end":7607.211,"text":"他做他的學術我做我的行政作為然後我遇到困難的時候再邀請他們來那我們一起來想辦法但是為什麼不事先你對於國內主要的經濟物種不管是龍魚畜牧你事先掌握了這樣子的邊防你看美國他是怎麼的因應他們也追能夠這麼小的東西是農產品的對於他們這個美國農業當中的影響他能夠在邊防就阻絕了這樣的一個證據"},{"start":7631.676,"end":7635.738,"text":"好那在國內我也請你們一定要針對可能遭受的農業灰色恐攻所形成的傷害作物的染疫減產跟這個疾病的傳播預先建立起這樣的對應機制好針對這樣的精進作為的"},{"start":7649.966,"end":7662.482,"text":"這樣的一個建議來提高不要說提高啦能夠穩定我們國內的糧食自主的一個這樣的一個這樣的一個目標您怎麼看本席的這樣的"},{"start":7664.111,"end":7689.13,"text":"這個提案呢我想非常謝謝委員的一些建議我分兩點第一個部分就是那個河谷連刀菌正式的全名是連刀菌不是連包菌連刀菌本身在台灣已經有這樣的一個病原菌發生的這些危害然後它現在目前並不是法定的該防檢疫的部分但是委員提到一個非常重要的是"},{"start":7689.87,"end":7713.193,"text":"一般我們在蜘蛛如果染這個病的話我們看到會把它銷毀但是它可能是一個單株而已可是當它是拿整個試管或整個的一個濃縮的這些病原進來的時候就真的很有可能被不法之徒用去當做一些可能的灰色攻擊您說的灰色攻擊這個我們必須要防"},{"start":7714.134,"end":7735.385,"text":"所以在田間的部分我們現在針對河谷鐮刀菌有一套很好的防治的技術然後也有一些抗病的品種在出現那這個部分我們會持續不只是這個菌其他的部分我們現在已經我只是舉這個案例不管是榮、榆、樹你現在講的是你的防疫那如果防潛的部分呢"},{"start":7736.406,"end":7749.634,"text":"對 防疫的部分也是一樣我們一定要把所有的病人阻擋在所謂的境外好 那你們就精進檢討一下對 我們這個會來處理好 謝謝 以上謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":7799.531,"end":7800.23,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":7950.172,"end":7950.725,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":7996.22,"end":7997.841,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":8053.584,"end":8053.804,"text":"謝謝主席有請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":8077.092,"end":8101.781,"text":"部長好我想經濟委員會召委很用心排這個題目我認為非常好確實是要去思考現在農業保險這幾年上路之後的一個檢討的問題可是在這個同時其實相關的一個法案的修改最近都紛紛出爐包括我之前提的農民退休金促進條例第7條的修正案還有包括農民保險的這個排付條款的部分請部長這邊跟行政院溝通的部分能夠加速進行這第一點提醒"},{"start":8103.902,"end":8118.519,"text":"那第二個的部分呢今天在野黨所提的這個拉掉中央補助的上限的部分我覺得第一個有可能會排擠到剛剛我所提的那兩項的一個福利預算的問題因為預算是都綁在一起這是第一個那第二個的部分補助的部分"},{"start":8118.899,"end":8139.253,"text":"你也說明很清楚可能到75%如果到75%的情況底下依照目前的覆蓋率個人的算起來看起來農業保險覆蓋率大概53.72%但是實質上你如果扣除掉強制納保的豬隻水稻等等覆蓋率其實不過是20%20.7%對 才20%而已所以你已經補助到75%還20%也就是補助不是關鍵是在保單的設計才是問題那保單的設計的問題這就是我們今天要好好來探討的問題"},{"start":8149.279,"end":8171.391,"text":"那保單的設計第一個我看到那個整個結果農營領不到產險公司賺飽飽第二個是多項農產品其實是被遺漏的沒有納召一個農業保障的範圍第三個現有保單又難以滿足產需的一個需求如果就這樣子來我們區分的話以目前的政策型的保險或商業型的保險來看的話"},{"start":8172.572,"end":8196.359,"text":"我看起來政策型的保險之所以能夠處理一來是分為收入型一來分為死亡型不論是收入型的這個部分這理賠的部分的參數能夠容易量化另外死亡型的部分還有包括這個豬隻跟乳牛的部分基本上也是容易量化這個基本上是比較OK的目前這個還OK可是呢我必須提醒部長部長"},{"start":8198.3,"end":8214.218,"text":"主要是出現在商業型的保險這36種當中是非強制的保險真正需要檢討是這個部分覆蓋力過低的元兇也是在這邊主要的在哪裡一來理賠的門檻不太一次一來過高"},{"start":8215.379,"end":8229.27,"text":"二來呢 理賠的金額呢 過低來 我那個 看一下部長 部長 數字看一下啦除了聽幕僚講一下 看一下我PowerPoint整理出來的數字你看喔 理賠率這三年當中以2021、22、23 理賠率不過是1.94% 6%"},{"start":8235.855,"end":8263.057,"text":"你總totally的這個保險基金從第一年的267億到第三年的300多億來看理賠率都沒有超過這個10%那以國泰這個產險的這個巴拉的保險來看的話設定的最大的陣風要十幾以上要連續五天那以照目前我算一算以照這個條件來看造成全國現有的巴勒的投保率不到1%"},{"start":8266.802,"end":8284.296,"text":"我查到一百六百就農民反應過得起來是這樣子這是第一個啦你要繳的一兩萬的這個保費來說然後等到那個大颱風大豪雨的時候那時期得當在中台啦大家就認為不划算還有一個我選區裡頭的大內的部分"},{"start":8286.141,"end":8303.341,"text":"你搭建一個往事的部分 起碼要花兩百萬即便你又補助 夯不啷噹你至少要出個一百你一分地 賠起來不到一千元賠起來不到一千元 你知道部長 木瓜的投保件數有幾件嗎 你知道嗎"},{"start":8304.623,"end":8326.638,"text":"六件 六件所以說 你看 芭樂不到一耙 那木瓜才六件這就是 你已經弄了四年多了喔 原因在哪裡第一個就是 豪雨成為常態 理賠的門檻過高嘛那第二個呢 就是理賠的金額太少 保險報酬率太低嘛"},{"start":8327.881,"end":8350.95,"text":"那我這樣再算一算部長這個保單的真正需要設計的問題是在這邊過往我們只要去我們去要求拜託看起來好像拜託公股的一些產險公司或私人的一個產險公司何嘗你們來拜託人你們說他們都配合政策那你怎麼不要求他來兌換這個社會責任呢你去看300多億當中"},{"start":8353.251,"end":8365.421,"text":"五十幾%的覆蓋率超過三成以上是那個政策型的保險有其他的部分是屬於給私人的保險他們不當是300多億當中呢一年當中就有超過100億當中丟入這個產險公司裡頭而非農業系統這種情況底下你賠率這麼低"},{"start":8372.819,"end":8395.669,"text":"不能是他們暴利啊我先跟他們報一下您這邊的算法可能有一點出入第一個就是說我們的理賠率應該是保費的收入當分母而不是保險的金額當分母是保費的收入當分母除以分子是理賠金額那大概多少那樣子我們算出來商業型的保險本身在113年它的理賠率是47"},{"start":8397.069,"end":8422.615,"text":"那如果47啊那一個合理的理賠率應該是在70到80因為它還有成本嘛所以它還是偏低沒有錯所以我們有現在有在設計就是說當它前一年度的理賠率比較低的時候我們就會降低保費來做處理因應啊大概是這樣子的方式如果是這樣子的話那為什麼那個投保的那個件數會那麼低呢"},{"start":8423.375,"end":8452.235,"text":"沒有 如果沒有那麼離譜的話你把你相關的理賠率啦 匯後給本息一份我覺得重點的部分是要告知那個部長這個保單的設計其實是關鍵啦不是在保費的補貼 不是關鍵啦所以你保負那個整個保單的設計的部分的這個商業型的保險是目前外界最詬病的地方除了農產品之外 部長我趁這個機會再提醒你一下"},{"start":8453.535,"end":8479.483,"text":"就是說呢 以漁產的部分的保單的這個投保起伏也是過大譬如講 這個以虱目魚來說他之前如果鯉賠有出險的話 有鯉賠的話那下一年度的投保率就會增加可是呢 你像牡蠣啦 文蛤啦像我的選區當中的七股這邊都有基本上到目前為止也都還不行"},{"start":8481.325,"end":8506.758,"text":"還沒有納入捏還在等待保單捏我要跟市長報告您講得非常重要就是保單的內容跟它的品質才是重點對啊然後像牡蠣來講因為它本身這幾年來它發生天然災害的風險變高了以後它的保費設計就是說我可以開辦這個保單但是它那個保費會高得離譜因為它的資料的計算的時間點很短過去我們並沒有這個資料"},{"start":8511.36,"end":8532.754,"text":"那這幾年大家藏一個比較長的時間來做平均值才對啊但之前我們並沒有一些比較明確的數據所以換句話說在現有的數據裡面他去算那個風險的時候他的風險非常高所以他的保費變成非常高那漁民一定沒辦法接受的所以我們現在就是說看看有沒有辦法設計出一些"},{"start":8533.82,"end":8546.499,"text":"比較改良式的一些一些保單的內容包括就是說你在特定的情況之下去做處理那如果說超過一定的風險的時候政府的吸收會高一點"},{"start":8549.523,"end":8569.821,"text":"我們以後不能補的那些也很奇怪你回去最快也要一個好這個我們一直在檢討 對另外還有包括那個柚子的部分我再直接講重點好了那個你柚子的部分的話一般傳統人壽的保單如果項目越多保費會越低可是那面積越大保費會越高以照目前為止他的計算的方式要立即落狗"},{"start":8570.501,"end":8584.849,"text":"但是颱風來所造成的這些東西延遲性的一個損傷大概都沒有納入啦那現階段的類似這種東西你只適用一個粒子如果延遲性的損傷沒有保障的話那就困難啦對啊 但是我給你們報告齁"},{"start":8586.09,"end":8604.027,"text":"我一直希望說第一個就是如果同一個農民他每年都有投保的時候我希望他保費能夠下降就是有折扣這樣能夠鼓勵第二個就是你投保的面積越大應該你的保費應該也要有折扣這樣的話才會有誘因部長時間到我也不要耽誤後面會員的時間"},{"start":8605.709,"end":8634.422,"text":"只是要求一件事情 四年多了啦 該檢討的啦我特別要求是商業型的這個部分啦或者是你政策型的要多一些品項也OK啦做一個整體的檢討麻煩你一個月的時候給本席一份好 可以對啊 你要如果改進現在這種經營的方式剛剛本席所提出的這些問題去年一整年我們就在檢討每一張嘛對對對 所以我待會要求你啊最近你既然有檢討 那你一個月拿出來應該是沒有什麼問題啊我們會提供 一定會提供好 一個月內喔 你把所有資料給我可以 好 謝謝"},{"start":8635.342,"end":8639.387,"text":"好谢谢现在请陈听飞委员做询答请部长谢谢赵伟陈部长"},{"start":8657.352,"end":8676.41,"text":"我也好部長我想請教一下我們如何去強化青農要從農的誘因我想有很多的青農說真的因為沒有固定的雇主來替他繳勞工的退休金所以基本上我們實際從事農業的"},{"start":8678.612,"end":8698.818,"text":"这些青农说真的他在后续的保障如果跟老保这些有冲突的时候他是没有有一定的一些后续的选择所以这个部分也是他们要转到我们农业服务一个很大的关键"},{"start":8699.378,"end":8719.895,"text":"他會去思考到他後續雖然如果他全力都是在做這樣的一個農業從事那沒有問題可是大家都知道現在要一個年輕人要全力來從事這樣的一個農業其實並不是那麼容易能夠去維持他自己的生活維持他一個家庭是有困難的"},{"start":8720.535,"end":8736.102,"text":"那在這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方向可以來協助他在他後續的保障尤其在我們農萃除菌的部分有需要去檢討讓他可以在達到一定規模的時候他也可以有所選擇"},{"start":8737.427,"end":8760.656,"text":"我跟委員報告從我們實際的調查當中特別是您所提到的青年跟青壯年的部分大概有一半將近一半的人他是原來是從事勞工的就是投保勞保他可能在公司但是他過了一段時間以後他從事農業又不願意放棄他的勞保的年資所以他是投保勞保"},{"start":8761.616,"end":8790.568,"text":"但是現階段他沒有辦法領我們的沒有辦法參加我們的農業退休儲金所以這個部分所以我們也特別去考量到就是說他未來是我們的農業經營的主力之一所以我們應該可以設計出一個方案讓他維持他的勞保的年金的一個領取的資格但是同時又可以來參加我們的農業的退休儲金的一個保險那這個部分我們現在正在設計"},{"start":8791.488,"end":8813.487,"text":"因為這個會讓他們有回到自己的家鄉從農的意願是否則他會兩難是也就是說當他現在目前投保是老保可是呢他又面臨如果他轉回到我們農業的部分那麼他在儲金是有一個"},{"start":8814.568,"end":8835.185,"text":"要求跟限制的所以我認為說在這個部分因為在這段時間其實很多的青農也一直有在反映這個區塊那我覺得這是必要性如果我們真的認為青農未來是我們農業的主力我們現在所有的政策方向也是朝這個方向希望青農回歸自己的家鄉"},{"start":8835.865,"end":8851.59,"text":"去從農如果是這樣子的話我們更應該讓他後續有保障所以這個部分再拜託我們的部長能夠在這個區塊多用點心然後我們預計多久我們現在已經在持續在討論當中嗎"},{"start":8853.01,"end":8873.04,"text":"對我們現在持續本來是有所謂的法律的禁核問題勞保跟農保的部分那這個部分我想我們的法治單位都已經解釋已經可以排除了所以我們現在基本上要推這樣的方式是沒問題的那我們會併同其他的委員的意見我們希望說在下個會期能夠併提上來做一些修正"},{"start":8878.163,"end":8889.71,"text":"因為我們認為說既然要檢討啦不要是好像頭痛一頭腳痛一腳而是我們既然要討論儲金的問題我們就一併討論因為一併討論的話雖然這是不一樣的"},{"start":8894.853,"end":8897.214,"text":"我們的這個農退儲金我們如何去增加覆蓋率跟我們的增加輕農重農的誘因這是兩個區塊可是我們既然要討論我們就一併討論"},{"start":8910.601,"end":8933.503,"text":"要不然每一次就是一下子修這個然後下一次又拿出來修那一個我覺得這個對我們修法的整個時程也會有所延宕所以這個部分在麻煩我們的部長我們來努力那另外一個部分是我們其實常常接到我們農民或是農會跟我們說我們常常"},{"start":8934.966,"end":8960.663,"text":"就是突然之間人家已經保了十幾年了然後突然跟他講說哇 你要被退保因為你是工商負責人那因為你戶籍異動因為你地籍異動因為你這個地價稅的問題然後你的勞農重複然後因為你人不在國內還有就是說你耕地沒有到達一分地然後他可能一二十年他農保這樣的一個資格就被"},{"start":8961.403,"end":8989.061,"text":"去除掉了 其實對於他是很傷耶他保養過的時間耶 我們到底有什麼樣的一個機制而不是 好像我們想到了要清查 就清查一次然後有些是耕地未打一分地的 都是在最後他已經要申辦了 結果我們農會把他調出來資料 他賣了賣到一切切切切切到"},{"start":8990.339,"end":8993.05,"text":"耕地餵打一分地沒辦法了"},{"start":8994.127,"end":9018.372,"text":"已經半個月了 沒辦法了要怎麼辦所以到底我們現在有什麼方式現在已經變成農會非常頭痛的問題也是農民現在大家都不知道我到底什麼時候我可以去確認我的身份而且這一二十年來他的保養 他的錢都一直在叫一直在叫 叫到半天跟他說 不好意思你的資格不好吧 這怎麼辦"},{"start":9021.953,"end":9047.704,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們也注意到這個問題那第一個要先跟委員說明歷來的這些查都是審計部要求農業部來查的那我們現在是六四四的部分我們自己能夠定一個時間標準嗎我們有我們的標準那我現在就是說我不希望說六四四清查就是一審查就定生死我希望能夠更提前的去用輔導的方式讓這些"},{"start":9048.544,"end":9063.056,"text":"有一些不符合規定的能夠在真正清查的時候能夠補正他的資格是啊這個部分我們已經在設計而且是有跟農會在溝通也許在六四事之前的半年就開始去啟動這樣子的一個溝通"},{"start":9065.158,"end":9085.547,"text":"主動的去了解以後如果他不符合的話那他趕快想辦法補相關的資料做調整對 他可以做調整的讓他有機會調整而不是到最後就是一句話說抱歉你一定要提報那65歲以上我們是不會去特別去查的啦"},{"start":9086.294,"end":9111.249,"text":"沒錯啊 可是不特別去查重點是他要去申辦的時候對這些資料還是會顯露出來啊對 所以我才會說就是我們有很多東西是可以主動的去了解的時候他有什麼問題的時候在真正的去清查的時候能夠補件的 能夠調整的就盡快調整部長 那你這個機制SOP什麼時候要把它訂出來這應該就有了嘛沒有啊 現在還是問題還是產生啊"},{"start":9115.745,"end":9127.413,"text":"委員我們現在正在跟各個農會來做一些溝通那基本上打保局的部分技術上已經沒有問題了所以應該很快可以推出來好那什麼時候很快一個月可以把這個SOB我覺得我們就把它公開好就是說未來我們到底在哪一個時間點我們可能會去做這樣的一個告知或是這個資料做一個核對"},{"start":9143.223,"end":9165.195,"text":"然後呢我們可以多久來做一個補正那補正的時候又有多少的一個時間點可以去做那個澄清或是更正我覺得這個部分我們應該把它訂出來讓農民都知道這現在SOP我們都已經擬好了現在就是跟農會溝通的部分我們應該三個月內之類的三個月我覺得我們就把資訊公開化因為現在已經不比以前了"},{"start":9172.578,"end":9200.424,"text":"現在從LINE 從資訊 大家都可以得知我可以有什麼樣的一個更正辦法那我自己如果身為有這樣的一個可能被退保的機制 我可以怎麼補救我就把它訂出來 訂出來之後就不會有這些枝枝節節說我已經叫一二十年了 我的權益全部被受損然後權益就不見了這部分再麻煩三個月了那另外一個部分就是說"},{"start":9202.205,"end":9207.93,"text":"我給我們部長看一個我們現在的投保率是53.7%其實部長你可以看從蔬菜類雜糧類蔬菜類甚至果樹類甚至養蜂產業"},{"start":9218.2,"end":9226.602,"text":"他這個都偏低喔你看我們的養豐產是0.7而已喔農業設施才18.2%然後甚至在我們漁業的部分我們從漁業或水產才3.2%跟1.5%甚至到我們的畜牧業在家禽類才21.4%所以因為這幾樣為什麼他們的一個投保率這麼低 有沒有去檢討過"},{"start":9246.616,"end":9265.867,"text":"我想第一個養蜂產業我們現在在溝通因為養蜂產業本身就是一個類似游牧民族除非是全國性的像龍眼樹有沒有那時候不開花那造成比較大面積的時候它不能遷移造成影響但是我們一直灌輸一個觀念就是保險是一個"},{"start":9267.652,"end":9288.906,"text":"協助他能夠降低他的損失因為以前養蜂我們沒有辦法蜂農沒有辦法得到災損那現在有了那基本上他有登載的地方因為要依照登載的地方所以我覺得這個部分已經可以慢慢的可以去鼓勵他們但是我要講的是今天有"},{"start":9290.006,"end":9307.857,"text":"這麼多那麼沒有辦法去增加他的投保率其實問題在哪裡問題是在於說我們的品項其實也不廣泛我們目前才28個品項44張的保單可是你看喔我們商業保險承辦21項農會體系的政策是7項可是你看比例當中農會的體系承辦的他的"},{"start":9318.303,"end":9346.169,"text":"所謂投保率都會比較高喔是不是那為什麼跟農民有信心感有信心指數而且是政策型的對是政策型的所以呢我們是不是應該有一些更多的政策性來讓農會來做賬主辦然後增加我們投保率的一個部分然後還有一個就是說因為你的設計你的保單設計根本不符合農民的需求"},{"start":9347.209,"end":9364.19,"text":"這個才是最大的問題所以我們現在每一個畜產或是漁產或是農作物說真的每一個樣態它的狀況都不一樣甚至是我們目前整個氣候的變化還有我們在理培的部分"},{"start":9365.521,"end":9382.253,"text":"商業保險公司都很嚴格捏就很嚴格捏我相信平常要求保單的時候要收保費的時候是一個臉捏可是要理賠又是另外一個臉捏這個部分你有沒有去了解所以大家信心"},{"start":9382.833,"end":9396,"text":"就不高啊我頭髮那麼多結果我要用的時候用不到這才是關鍵啊所以我覺得部長這個真的整個都要檢討既然我們要檢討農業保險因為我們農業保險從110年到現在這也是我們民進黨的好政策"},{"start":9402.123,"end":9425.798,"text":"都要保養讓他雙軌並行有災損我們政府的災損補助也有農業保險可是因為現在天氣的變化所以我們其實應該是要把每一年的這個氣候樣本還有災損紀錄其實都要做一個統整紀錄一個延續性帶狀性的你沒有做這個帶狀性的我告訴你我們兩天要去鄉鴨 鴨保養局都說不走啦"},{"start":9429.961,"end":9448.124,"text":"全部的公務員 像水管 水道 這一次其實我們就有改變了他抽樣取樣的部分所以有部分 可是他的理賠率也不高啦 也不高啦可是如果我們沒有去改變這個理賠率更低啊"},{"start":9449.025,"end":9462.959,"text":"所以部長我覺得這個部分是很重要我們一定要有一個參數來做調整讓商業保險能夠有依據不然你如果都故意的我告訴你所有的農民你不會都站不上去"},{"start":9464.099,"end":9492.82,"text":"所以部長我們是不是應該全面對於農業保險在做所有的一個調整最重要的是如何讓農民有信心增加符合農民需求的保單設計我想我非常認同委員的想法也是我一直希望說未來的農業保險應該朝向保單的品質的提升這個保單的品質提升就像委員所說的你要符合農民的需求這最重要的"},{"start":9493.14,"end":9522.223,"text":"是 然後那些風險本身的一個設計我也跟委員報告商業保險的保證的設計都會經過我們農經局這邊一起最後才做定案不會說純粹他講什麼就講什麼沒錯啊 可是他會有要求他自己這個保險的獲利率啊所以他還是一樣會他跟你們這樣子一支長一支長啊可是最後回歸到農民的身上其實又有差了啊"},{"start":9522.603,"end":9546.794,"text":"對我知道所以我想我基本上會遵照委員的意見就是重新全面去檢討現在已經在做了檢討每一張保單為什麼它保單的人數會那麼少它到底哪一些保險的內容或是保費的金額有差異的時候我們逐項來做檢討這個我們現在已經在行動了那部長什麼時候我那時候應該是講年底之前"},{"start":9547.634,"end":9551.32,"text":"我那時候是要求他們年底之前那你剛剛跟前衛立委說一個月那是現在的經濟的報告經濟的方向可以一個月但是因為每一張保單要去調整的話可能到年底才能調整完那年底調整完"},{"start":9563.038,"end":9589.102,"text":"好年底調整完喔把每一張保單調整完喔那一樣你也是一個月你說精進的報告也是可以給我們給我們那個經濟委員會然後呢年底喔我們設定一個年底把所有的每一樣的保單品項而且品項太少的部分也應該要做調整好 謝謝好 謝謝現在請李昆城委員做詢答"},{"start":9598.757,"end":9602.141,"text":"謝謝主席我們請這個陳部長陳部長還有我們這個房間署的這個徐署長徐署長"},{"start":9611.788,"end":9631.156,"text":"這個有一個新聞在一個禮拜之前有一個台灣的藝人他去中國然後從中國帶回來一個特產叫做活珠子他們是當南京的一個特產就是一個胚胎蛋然後帶回台灣然後農業部知道這件事情環節署知道這件事情"},{"start":9633.335,"end":9656.729,"text":"有沒有去查這有沒有違反我們這個動物傳染病防治條例的規定剛委員說明原則上就是在我們的隱私節目裡面這是屬於活動物的話它是一個產品是需要來申請的它有申請嗎它沒有申請可以帶進來嗎當然不能帶進來不能帶進來那因為這個事情是在一個禮拜之前那請問一下你們有去查嗎"},{"start":9657.998,"end":9685.224,"text":"這後來我們有請同仁去追查那因為這個產品它是夾帶進來我們之前沒有在當場收到那後來去查那個產品已經沒有辦法去做可是它有影片啊那影片我們就是追查那個人就是請人就是當事人來做說明那這個會有所謂的罰則有沒有找當事人來做說明的"},{"start":9686.181,"end":9713.976,"text":"我們的分屬的同仁有去做做做訪談有做訪談啊那有沒有確認說的確是從中國帶回來這個東西那這部分我可能要再確認一下因為這部分還在做訪談當中的記錄我沒有看到那你了解一下那等一下跟本席來報告一下就是說這個結果是怎麼樣好不好因為他已經違反了這個我們的這個動物傳染病防治條例了嘛對不對對他是因實施的檢驗物不能帶進來"},{"start":9715.046,"end":9743.813,"text":"那現在尤其暑假又快到了其實我也很擔心啊暑假到了可能這個兩岸這邊這個往返的人會越來越多那怎麼樣去再來防範類似這一種帶回來他是我認為他是知道了然後還故意在這一個他的這一個直播節目上面還說什麼從這一個中國帶回來那怎麼去防範就是說現在暑假快到了有可能是兩岸的這一個來往會比較頻繁有類似犯這種情況的"},{"start":9744.895,"end":9768.961,"text":"跟委員說明原則上當事人知不知道這個是不能帶進來我不曉得啦那原則上就是說我們在宣導方面我們會再強化我們可能在就是在出入境的整個人流當中我們再強化有一些人不曉得因為這個東西其實在以前我們的國人同胞很少會帶這種就是所謂的珍珠彈這個進來那以前我們在東南亞所謂的壓載彈這部分是很明確"},{"start":9772.482,"end":9800.33,"text":"所以在東亞的一些旅客他們都了解這個不能帶的但是中國這所謂的珍珠彈這之前很少人有聽過所以這個我們在加強宣導方面這算是活體的啊理論上它是有做加熱其實加熱也不行就是我們在活動檢疫物裡面如果所有加工也是要經過申請那這個也不能說因為他不知道就不發啊"},{"start":9801.737,"end":9828.345,"text":"當然要法,如果我不曉得當事人知不知道,可能有些民眾也不曉得所以你們要加強宣傳,但是我是認為說這不可能不知道這個是違法的啦當然我們之前的宣傳都是做假的啊不過我想齁,這件事情的處理就是說,剛才我們防險組署長已經有提過了他們的分署會去訪談,那訪談如果是確定他是從中國帶的雖然說當下已經沒有那個實證了,但是他如果筆錄過程中這影片有啊"},{"start":9829.846,"end":9841.992,"text":"對 影片有時候他會說他造假他隨便說說啦所以變成說他如果真正的筆錄過程裡面他確認說他也承認他是從中國帶進來的話那就會依照相關的處罰的規定去處罰"},{"start":9844.233,"end":9859.175,"text":"那第二個部分就是我們會在機場邊境去做更加強的一個宣導我覺得我們現在很重視整個肉類製品慢慢的那個帶進來的旅客那個比例有越來越低了"},{"start":9860.076,"end":9882.479,"text":"動直率的方法 然後現在像這種有點加熱 會讓人家覺得說好像是可以的那這個誤解的部分 我想我們會用圖卡的方式或其他的方式能夠讓更多人知道 這個我們會來努力好 那署長去查一下 看你們這個訪談結果怎麼樣那今天跟本席報告一下那我再跟這個部長請教一下"},{"start":9885.123,"end":9911.401,"text":"這個齁 在美國 他有查到說有一種這個有毒的真菌 河谷蓮苞菌這個就是蓮苞菌 它這個走私到美國去他們認為說這是一種這個潛在的農業恐怖主義的武器那我也記得說在幾年前台灣有類似這種案子 但當然不是這種菌就是說從中國那邊也有寄一些不明的一些種子啊土壤來到台灣"},{"start":9912.582,"end":9933.257,"text":"我跟委員說明就是河谷連刀菌正式的學名叫連刀菌不是連包菌那這個菌其實在台灣已經有發生的紀錄包括在小麥包括在玉米還有包括在稻米都有發生這樣的一個情況然後最主要是河本科然後他的致病"},{"start":9933.917,"end":9949.13,"text":"病原是不會比我們的道樂病的那個病原還強啦所以他現在目前是在檢疫的規定裡面不是因斯檢疫的項目之一那為什麼美國這位說他這是我要講的第二個重點就是說"},{"start":9949.89,"end":9967.516,"text":"那是因為他附著在植物種子帶進來那個可能危害個別危害比較輕微可以後續可以防治處理但是你如果純粹拿這個菌種菌種帶進來的話就有可能像剛才我也有提到可能變成一個灰色攻擊"},{"start":9968.776,"end":9985.39,"text":"就是說他可以混在任何的方式去做做特意的撒播的時候那就會變成短時間之內大面積的危害那樣的一個情況可能就會造成一些恐慌啊或是方式在台灣之前有發生過"},{"start":9988.351,"end":10009.251,"text":"有這個病但是沒有說被人用這種濃縮的菌種去做惡意的散布啦這個是沒有啦但是我們可能也要預防啦所以後續我也要求我們防監署未來針對在X光檢驗的時候因為它包裝應該會比較特殊嘛如果看到的話要特別去加強去查處啦"},{"start":10010.112,"end":10036.414,"text":"這是第一個部分然後回歸到田間的時候我們現在目前對這支菌的防治方法都已經都有一些現有的防治的技術跟防治的藥劑然後主要的那個品種像水稻或玉米都有一些抗病的品種那這樣的話也會降低萬一被惡意的做那個傳播的時候也會有基本的抗性"},{"start":10037.395,"end":10053.564,"text":"所以基本上在台灣是有技術去克服說這種如果說進來的話它的蔓延對我們已經因為它本身就已經存在在台灣了對好OK那我再請教一下那那個書長請回我再請教一下這個農業金融署的這個李書長"},{"start":10059.667,"end":10082.718,"text":"這個請教一下就是說這個央行在從去年開始那就陸陸續續有一些這個打房的一些措施那其中有央行的理事有提到說那會不會有可能這個有關土建農的貸款或是說一些民間的這些貸款跑到這個農會信用部去所以我想請問一下從去年大概年底到現在"},{"start":10083.999,"end":10094.672,"text":"有關於這個農漁會的信用部的這一個有關土建農的貸款還有這一個你們是有所謂的這個農安貸款嗎這個比例有增加嗎"},{"start":10096.701,"end":10114.068,"text":"是 各位報告那農安貸款的話大概最近一年他大概每個月承作的建樹跟進口是大概相當並沒有明顯的增加沒有明顯的增加對 那另外針對信用部承作土建農的情況我們每個月都有在追蹤然後都有在督導以上"},{"start":10114.668,"end":10142.197,"text":"我是說有沒有成長的比例啊從去年比如說九月到現在一年的時間有沒有這個成長啊相關的那個比例我是不是可以匯報再提供給委員不過我們每個月都是有在注意的好 那就你的印象所及有成長嗎應該是大概差不多沒有特別的成長沒有說因為銀行那邊比較難貸款的他跑來我們這個農業會信用部來貸款大概因為農安貸款是從大概兩年前開始推廣第一年的時候大概成長的速度比較快那大概這一年大概是已經有趨緩的現象"},{"start":10144.448,"end":10158.881,"text":"那你這個把這個相關的數字給我因為我去查資料至少到去年年底是有增加的啦但是你是認為說這個算是屬於還算是正常現象那你把這個相關數字提供給本席參考好不好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長好謝謝"},{"start":10188.095,"end":10189.756,"text":"我們接下來請憲一鳳委員質詢謝謝主席 我想要請陳部長請陳部長委員好"},{"start":10208.534,"end":10225.322,"text":"部長我看到你說對於農業保險的這個就是說我們希望修正的在6年以後就是降低成補助就是可以達60%這個上限你不建議拿掉是不是是"},{"start":10227.352,"end":10254.406,"text":"我覺得說我們今天在討論因為六年快到了嘛我們必須要來討論嘛那今天討論的很多委員所講的就是覆蓋率不高的問題是不是那你認為拿掉這個60%的上限對於法律沒有一個確定性讓公務人員也沒有遵循的標準那我們還有幾種修法啊"},{"start":10255.006,"end":10269.789,"text":"對不對我們畢竟在這個目前這個農業保險沒有一個像我們來提到說保單的這個品項沒有辦法涵蓋全方面例如"},{"start":10270.59,"end":10284.096,"text":"像我們今年彰化縣的荔枝因為低溫灼果不成所以導致於產量受損但是過去的農業保險的保單內容只有舊氣溫太高"},{"start":10287.418,"end":10310.134,"text":"相關性來提出相關的保單而沒有對於氣溫太低造成灼果不易產生產果量不足這樣子的一個情況給予他的一個保單的內容嗎那這個部分你們未來怎麼樣子來提供相關的保單呢"},{"start":10310.994,"end":10318.609,"text":"我想非常謝謝委員的一個提問特別是委員提這樣的一個案子其實也讓我們有機會能夠重新去思考"},{"start":10319.4,"end":10348.84,"text":"那因為委員的版本把6年以下的劃掉了以後然後第二項又加了前項要去做滾動檢討嘛那變成前項只有變成前面5年而已前面5年已經過了就還是我們增加就是說增加6年或者是就是留著把它留著以後然後第二項說要做滾動的檢討這第一個第二個部分我覺得委員一個重要的精神我們有catch到就是說"},{"start":10350.02,"end":10360.307,"text":"我們要協助在某一個條件之下讓農民的保費能夠少繳一點那我們是希望用什麼用"},{"start":10361.4,"end":10388.659,"text":"一個條件我舉個例子他如果每年都從事同樣作物的保險的時候那相對的他的保費是可以打折的我們用保費打折的概念會讓農民有一個另外一個誘因我不是跟天氣對賭今年好像颱風會來我就來保明年好像機會不大就不保我希望他們是一個持續性的投保那這樣子的話保險的覆蓋力不是保險的整個分擔風險的"},{"start":10390.259,"end":10405.035,"text":"程度會變大那如果說連續兩年或連續三年都有保的時候我的保費的打折的比例我可以調整那這樣其實也達到委員的目的就是因為保費打折的也要等於政府增加嘛"},{"start":10405.975,"end":10424.844,"text":"那其實也是達到同仁的目的但是對農民來講不會造成農民說這都建物來出了我就不要去管理了不要去幹什麼可是問題是目前我們在涵蓋率不足的情況下我們就已經到了這個6年要就是降低成就是保費補助只能60%的上限"},{"start":10427.045,"end":10446.356,"text":"那當然對於農民的這樣的投保率以及我們希望拉高這個就是農業保險的覆蓋率那會不會也有相關的你知道嗎農民也會覺得說未來整個保費的補助以及相關的誘因不足的情況下"},{"start":10447.236,"end":10463.074,"text":"那我們怎麼樣子來增加農民的提保率有可能他們就不要啊是不是所以我才會說我們現在更重要的作為是提高保端的品質去設計一些真正的符合農民需求的而且每一張保端的"},{"start":10464.075,"end":10482.111,"text":"對你提到了設計保單那今天我們金管會的保險局也有來那對於農民的保單的設計那當然了會不會我們產業界的就是說所有的保險公司他們不願意共同的投入會不會"},{"start":10483.031,"end":10511.179,"text":"我先跟委員說明也許金管會等一下再說明我覺得現在我們遇到的商業的保險公司其實他都還蠻樂意配合政策的那現在很重要一點就是我們保險的風險有沒有過去累積的資料並不夠長所以他在有限的資料去設計的時候那個風險值會變高風險值一變高的時候保費就會變高保費變高的時候農民看到這個保費也不想保了"},{"start":10511.839,"end":10526.207,"text":"所以變成一個惡性循環但是隨著時間拉長你的保險本身的數據的累積夠多的時候就能夠趨近於一個比較合理的風險值而且我們會看就像剛才委員有提到的"},{"start":10526.607,"end":10545.511,"text":"如果商業型保單現在平均的理賠率47那47我剛才說的好的理賠率應該是70到80包括可以扣除它的成本那如果比較低的話我們就會希望它能夠降低保費做一個動態的調整那這個東西就是我們現在在努力的"},{"start":10545.691,"end":10559.183,"text":"但是對啊這是你們農業部期待的方向但是商業保險這些保險公司有沒有辦法共同配合國家的政策嗎這也是我們在下一波應該要共同來檢討的"},{"start":10560.885,"end":10588.644,"text":"你說到了去年的我看到你說去年我們的天然災害救助的八十幾億那去年的災損是多少錢我的資料只有到112年112年是150億左右那隨著氣候變遷的條件因此加劇的情況下會不會導致於我們天然災害的這個受損的金額越來越高呢"},{"start":10589.324,"end":10611.944,"text":"你有觀察到相關的趨勢嗎這個趨勢一定是逐步的上升啦等於說我們現在的像去年上個颱風那今年還沒有到颱風季真的颱風來我們已經因為低溫有沒有造成一些開花不結果的這個品項公告的品項有超過60項已經蠻高了表示說"},{"start":10614.061,"end":10628.633,"text":"就是極端的天后造成農業經營不確定性越來越高這個越來越高的時候以去年大概農損大概500多億那我相信今年也不會太低啦以現在的天后來講也不會太低所以"},{"start":10629.313,"end":10643.119,"text":"當我們加入了農業保險這樣子的項目能不能共同的來幫助我們涵蓋所有受災農民的這樣子的一個"},{"start":10645.08,"end":10662.81,"text":"受災的金額 有沒有辦法共同來協助這就是我們未來的目標我們會再跟商業保險公司剛才也有委員提到農會也是一個可以承保的單位那農會跟農民的互動會更好也許我們可以共同努力還有一個重點就是"},{"start":10663.61,"end":10681.744,"text":"中央跟地方因為農業部現在出百分一般都出二分之一那有些品項是地區型的品項地方政府會再加碼甚至於加了百分之三十百分之四十所以農民有時候只負擔百分之十百分之二十所以這個比例在這個法定其實"},{"start":10682.825,"end":10697.916,"text":"我覺得它不會影響到中央跟地方的合作啦所以後續我想我們一定會透過中央跟地方的合作如果適當的品項的時候看怎麼樣去協助農民來做這個分擔如果風險高的話也許它的比例可以提高一點"},{"start":10698.576,"end":10713.882,"text":"好還有你說的你去年你就答應我了今年你三個豬瘟都拔針了你說我們拔針的時候台灣的稻谷是不是可以輸到日本"},{"start":10714.656,"end":10730.846,"text":"臺灣在什麼 稻谷 稻桿對 我們現在也在處理這個區塊因為臺灣的稻草啦對 稻草 稻桿嘛 做榻榻米我們現在已經在談了因為當初他們有一個理由就是因為我們還有這些傳統豬瘟存在"},{"start":10732.307,"end":10755.762,"text":"那現在沒有了包括我們的豬肉的生煎豬肉的削日本還有相關的稻草的削日其實他們也蠻需要業者也蠻需要的做榻榻米啊那些東西所以我們同步已經在跟他們在談而且我們自己也可以處理我們的農費嘛對不對減少減少那個人家燒稻感吧委員關憲的我們一直在做啦那現在目前進行了怎樣喔 談判的東西齁還要再跟他們讀啦"},{"start":10760.303,"end":10782.781,"text":"還沒如成功是不是這個要繼續努力啦還有啊剛才有委員提到我們彰化的194號米是你們農改廠出來的啊是不是是不是也應該要共同的推銷到日本嘛它的那個米相跟傳統的日本米的米相是不一樣的不是月光米的這種品種嘛我跟委員報告我們現在有個想法就是"},{"start":10783.542,"end":10811.118,"text":"我們會針對不同地區的特色米會建立地區的品牌然後會跟日方的通路做連結像今年二月初我們就邀請了日方的幾個大的商社來台灣然後我們有做一個簡單的媒合讓他們了解台灣到底有多少種米讓他們試吃可是他們有擴大嘛對不對我們台灣米蔬日有擴大對不對"},{"start":10812.799,"end":10837.858,"text":"沒有 擴大是固定的但是如果說我們的族群鎖定在比較高端的話它的配額外的關稅就算比較高那個售價還是有利潤的啦好 那這個部分再麻煩你協助好不好會 一定會有協助我們彰化有非常多的米喔都是可以適合去外銷到日本去的而且要建立特有的品牌啦這個我想我們會來努力好 那那個美國的對等關稅7月8號會談完嗎我們"},{"start":10841.804,"end":10854.242,"text":"台美的關稅現在正在談判中那農業部的立場還是一致的就是在確保糧食安全產業永續的情形之下我們會尋求一個雙贏貿易雙贏的一個方法"},{"start":10857.206,"end":10885.032,"text":"那我們不會放棄水稻讓它變成外界炒作的關稅會不會最後要拿我們的農業去換我想總統已經宣示了很多次包括院長也說的農民農漁民優先我們絕對不會犧牲農業來換取工業的一個利益那這個部分一定是國家整體考量那農業部有農業部的堅持我們也一定會堅持那7月8號會出來嗎"},{"start":10887.728,"end":10899.361,"text":"照理論上應該要一定要出來啦我相信會吧我相信因為美國就三個月嘛三個月他就一定要處理啊那我覺得我們現在正在做積極的談判啊我希望"},{"start":10907.748,"end":10916.8,"text":"什麼時候出來不是重點出來的結果是我們能夠大家都很開心的那才是重點所以你也不確定7月8號因為談判還在進行當中好 謝謝"},{"start":10936.749,"end":10938.57,"text":"主席我想請陳主委陳部長陳部長部長早已經午安了我想要呼應一下前面幾位委員都有談到有關於農保清朝讓非常多的農民都非常恐慌這件事情請問一下SOP什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":10962.276,"end":10978.855,"text":"包括說可能被退保的人什麼時候會有補救的機會讓他們有一個緩衝的時間然後把他的農保救回來的機會呢我想謝謝委員的提問我知道委員也非常關心就是農保保了"},{"start":10979.736,"end":10983.139,"text":"一輩子很長的時間以後然後在那個六四四那個節點就判生死所以我們也體認到委員的這種關心而且實務上所以我們現在有個設計就是往前我們先主動的清查如果發現說你可能不符合規定的時候"},{"start":11001.156,"end":11012.215,"text":"我們就主動的希望他趕快補件那我舉個例子有一些土地的買賣我們可以用資料庫勾結那買賣的當下可能農民"},{"start":11013.53,"end":11041.113,"text":"不了解那個嚴重性沒錯如果說他買賣的時候我們發現了我們就提前的跟他講那他要趕快去補那個地他還有一些時間點但他會預留多少時間讓他去補呢我覺得我們現在初步規定大概半年是比較適當因為太長也沒有用我覺得合理大概半年之內所以我們三個月之內會有我們現在很多規範基本上我們不希望"},{"start":11042.234,"end":11059.101,"text":"農民花了那麼多的年去保保以後會被這個判生死然後就失去了他領這個老農年金的機會過去很多其實都不是農業部願意主動去查都是審計部邀請我們去查這個我完全理解但是還是希望說農業部"},{"start":11061.042,"end":11074.738,"text":"盡速的把那個機制喔把它公告出來讓所有的農民有一個依據甚至所有在辦這個檢查農保的這些人員喔可以有一個依據然後他們懂得怎麼去協助他們否則基層的辦事人員他"},{"start":11077.862,"end":11097.752,"text":"等於是兩手一攤他也幫不上忙他不是不願意幫忙而是不知道怎麼幫忙如果像部長所講的有一個這麼好的機制就是說他有半年可以補救甚至說他如果遇到其他的什麼問題他可以怎麼解決讓他們有一個補件的機會的話那這樣子很明確的把它列出來的話讓所有的"},{"start":11099.633,"end":11124.087,"text":"包括我們的農民包括我們的辦事人員都有所依據我想你農業部接收到的陳情也會減少就會從基層就把這件事情解決會部長您同意嗎對我同意所以我三個月之內我們會把這個SOP包括一些該注意的指引跟事項特別是有一個農一個農地裡面的水池要不要扣掉水塔要不要扣掉這些細節細節也讓"},{"start":11126.508,"end":11142.525,"text":"這些地方的人能夠更清楚更明確的清楚那就特別拜託部長可以繼續追蹤這個事情趕快落實下來三個月內趕快提出這個公告讓大家可以知道整個SOP然後細節怎麼規範讓大家有所依據好嗎好謝謝那部長你知道琉璃椅嗎"},{"start":11149.79,"end":11162.318,"text":"知道 琉璃椅大概每年大概這個時間點 是不是是 最近這個琉璃椅的擴散問題喔越演越烈那以本席所在的雲林為例啊琉璃椅的通報件數從2019年的50件"},{"start":11165.6,"end":11168.623,"text":"到去年喔已經暴增到700件了那今年有可能還會再增加那尤其以林內鄉古坑鄉的蟻害最為嚴重啊所以這個琉璃蟻它不只是危害多種的果樹包括"},{"start":11183.878,"end":11190.701,"text":"這個蜂蜜產業蜜蜂產業也對從事農事的這些農民造成實質的傷害因為葉嘎啷嘛所以這個學界明確指出說琉璃蟻入侵會導致作物害這個從病蟲害加劇那對於農業農業的實質危害已經構成了面對這樣子的問題不曉得部長現在有沒有解決的方案呢"},{"start":11208.68,"end":11224.119,"text":"我跟委員報告雖然說以農業部現在的規範來講琉璃椅不認為因為它不會危害農作物所以我們不認為它是一個農業的害蟲但是我覺得不能說不認為農業的害蟲我們就不理它"},{"start":11225.222,"end":11252.604,"text":"第二個部分是我覺得要處理這件事情也絕對不是在農業的田間去處理可能在居家的環境也要處理所以我會在會後我會盡速安排跟衛務部起動 對不起 環境部起動一個工作平台看要怎麼樣子的去共同的防治雖然說它不是農業害同但是我覺得我們可以有更積極的態度去處理"},{"start":11253.945,"end":11268.341,"text":"因為每一年都發生每一年都會發生而且在這個季節所以不及時的處理的時候我覺得受害的是我們的民眾或是我們農民所以我會主動的成立一個工作平台看怎麼樣共同來解決"},{"start":11269.142,"end":11296.35,"text":"太棒了 這個如果部長主動來做這件事情我相信所有農民都會給你泡泡真的因為已經影響到他們的一般的這個作業的工作的這個過程包括也入侵了很多校園 住宅等等那如果說趕快我們農業部發起主動跟他們有一個跨部會的這個討論我想這是非常非常的重要因為學界他要指出說這個"},{"start":11297.35,"end":11314.09,"text":"琉璃蟻是從東南亞傳來的外來種那依法其實是希望說農業部要趕快啟動這個嚴格管理機制那是不是要列為害蟲這個我想你們有一個評估的標準啊但是我想要建議部長的"},{"start":11315.071,"end":11318.973,"text":"意思就是說其實過去像這個荔枝樁巷我們當初不就編了1.5億的預算然後跟地方合力釋放它的天敵這個貧富小豐然後再往前看紅火椅的時候那時候也有成立一個國家紅火椅防治中心打造一個全民的這個通報平台"},{"start":11336.624,"end":11351.804,"text":"那是不是喔面對這個琉璃同樣的這個擴散這麼迅速然後跨場域的影響災害能不能喔等於是設立一個研議一個這個常設的害蟲防治中心啊就是"},{"start":11353.085,"end":11366.091,"text":"不是只是針對琉璃椅不是只是針對琉璃椅是不是農業部能夠有一個害蟲防治中心是常設的然後針對不同的物種是不是等於是病蟲害等等都可以在這邊"},{"start":11368.252,"end":11383.909,"text":"討論我跟委員報告尤其還有那個小黑文小黑文為什麼三年就裁測掉了你知道現在小黑文有多嚴重嗎是不是主委除了劉立以之外小黑文的問題也一起跟衛福部討論我的一手都被小黑文咬了"},{"start":11384.509,"end":11411.36,"text":"不是不是小黑文真的很嚴重耶我跟委員報告就是您剛才所說的建議其實我們現在已經在規劃而不是純粹農業害重我們是農業的病蟲害的監測防治的中心是然後在這個中心之下我希望幾個主要的產區都有一個類似區域中心的這種概念然後它包括了很多監測所以我們現在也在陸陸續續跟幾個學校在談合作的"},{"start":11412.46,"end":11431.509,"text":"因為不能只靠農業部或是農業部所屬單位還有跟學校可以一起來做這樣的話才能夠有更系統的防治特別是針對一些琉璃椅的部分會等到工作平台去處理的時候因為他要同步去啟動而不是只有農業這邊來啟動如果說需要的經費我想我們也會想辦法來爭取來支持這樣的一個防治的作為"},{"start":11437.032,"end":11444.193,"text":"這一點也要特別請主委關心趕快編預算然後趕快落實那甚至整個琉璃你們現在因應的整個方向你們跨部會討論出來的時候是不是也可以給我們委員會一個報告讓我們所有的委員我想關心的委員也很多能夠有一個很明確的知道說農業部現在已經很積極的在處理這件事情那當然剛剛講到的小黑文這個也要拜託這個部長因為"},{"start":11465.697,"end":11484.108,"text":"才三年喔 這個小黑文的這個就裁撤掉了嘛 這個防治中心喔裁撤掉了 那現在其實小黑文的問題並沒有減少不能夠變成習以為常 就忘記了小黑文的影響這個齁 我想我們在工作平台會跟環境部來建議啦因為小黑文是環境部在處理的啦"},{"start":11486.51,"end":11510.501,"text":"既然你要跟他講琉璃椅這個小黑文就拜託部長也一起跟他提到時候我也會過去他們那邊跟他們講我們環境部有很好的溝通的平台啦包括一些循環再利用的場域啦這些東西所以我想我們應該很快會有一個比較好的方案那到時候這個會議的一些相關的決議我們也會讓經濟委員會的所有委員都知道"},{"start":11511.121,"end":11514.242,"text":"謝謝 那另外我想要再請問部長有關於老農津貼排富門檻的問題因為自100年起老農津貼就是設有這個排富門檻就是如果他有不動產超過500萬就是不能夠領這個老農津貼那到現在已經14年了都沒有更新這個排富條款的門檻那其實這當中房價漲了6至8成"},{"start":11540.514,"end":11547.138,"text":"14年來已經漲了房價已經飛漲了那物價上升了18%所以呢這個排富的標準門檻還留在這個14年前就是民國100年的水準喔已經嚴重失衡所以有很多真正在務農的老農因為他的"},{"start":11559.646,"end":11575.127,"text":"房產升值而被排除在津貼領取的範圍之內所以他的生活權益也受損了這一點不曉得主委上次也有提起說你會趕快積極去修改這個部分我第一個跟委員說明就是"},{"start":11575.988,"end":11590.076,"text":"其實農業部有農業部所規劃的一個版本那以現在來看的話其實影響到現在目前必須調整有兩個因素一個是您剛才所提的物價指數的部分它漲了大概15、16"},{"start":11592.237,"end":11614.757,"text":"一個更重要的是土地的公告限值漲了百分之六十幾對六成至八成因地區不等所以說我們也認同說適度的排富的現在的條件包括你的所得包括你的那個自有住宅的扣除還有你的財產所得這三個部分我們會做適度的調整"},{"start":11615.538,"end":11637.038,"text":"那我們現在大概規劃會送到行政院以後在下個會議會送進來所以已經有規劃了規劃的方向可以稍微讓我們知道一下嗎委員大概有十幾個版本我們的規劃的方向大概在委員版本的中間中間就是取則中這樣子我們不是這樣取的我們有一個計算公式"},{"start":11637.578,"end":11658.295,"text":"那這個計算公式到時候也可能要讓我們所有委員理解因為現在還沒有抱怨因為所有東西必須抱怨以後才能夠對外大方向是朝大家的方向是一致的其實我也要跟部長說我們經濟委員會的所有委員甚至所有關心農業的所有委員其實都可以成為你的助力"},{"start":11658.695,"end":11676.505,"text":"在你抱怨之前假設你的版本先讓我們大家知道我們甚至都可以協助你說服行政院趕快通過這個版本我們是可以來等於是說大家互相幫忙只要是對農民有利的我們是不分你我一起來努力讓這個趕快來落實"},{"start":11678.566,"end":11700.04,"text":"我第一個先謝謝所有經濟委員會的委員不管是任何黨派的我覺得對農業都是支持的其實我們擔心的是在黨團那邊的提案這個你也非常清楚第二個部分就是像這個案子其實我們有信心我們可以用我們的數據去說服行政院來支持這個我們絕對有信心"},{"start":11702.161,"end":11731.281,"text":"如果你有需要的時候請你不要客氣你就把這個需求發出來我們大家共同來支持那最後呢我真的是也希望說這些老農因為他們這一輩子務農如果我們的排富條款門檻不與時俱進的話把他們排除在外讓他們沒有辦法受到他們應有的保障我覺得是很心酸所以也希望我們在做這件事的時候能夠常常記起他們的這個心酸跟他們的需求"},{"start":11731.681,"end":11758.253,"text":"我們會來努力好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝現在請蔡易瑜委員做詢答好做以上宣告我們中午不休息延長開會時間好謝謝召委那我們是不是有請我們部長陳部長"},{"start":11768.587,"end":11787.138,"text":"喂吼 部長 現在一起的稻作那現在差不多等於收割啦對阿大概這個禮拜應該都陸續在收那當然現在當然農民比較擔心的是接下來這個蝴蝶颱風這隻蝴蝶會在後面背來背去我們這邊所以大家也很高興因為風太大就剩割 那個季節就會受到影響"},{"start":11793.582,"end":11803.906,"text":"現在的價格不錯,現在我們推動的糧食產業升級方案現在的產地糧價百台幣都是一千一百多現在的價格大概一百五十一百五十,三下過去當然也有九百也有八百"},{"start":11819.412,"end":11826.237,"text":"去年齁 去年是不錯喔 去年差不多一千二百元 但是去年勒沒有啦 去年比較高 去年比較高 不過去年沒中 去年稍微缺一點所以今年是很好喔 今年我這樣聽起來 農民有收十八塊 也有十九塊甚至喔 用料比較好的有拚到二十塊喔"},{"start":11839.167,"end":11858.283,"text":"他拚到二十塊就有差不多一千一百五十塊的一個收入的話今年對於稻農來說他們是豐收的一年所以我想柏中這應該也清楚你去年你要推動的整個糧食政策我覺得這個大方向有朝著你們農業部的一個期待我跟委員報告"},{"start":11860.225,"end":11872.963,"text":"去年的平均價在這段時間平均價大概是980左右980、990左右提供去年喔去年去年一起做今年大概是1100左右啦所以你看嘛我們"},{"start":11874.648,"end":11885.417,"text":"雖然說沒有像委員要求到公糧到五塊錢我們是希望說糧沒有 民糧能夠拉高對於整個產業都有幫助嗎那的確我們如果民糧拉高的話就對農民來說他會不要繳公糧對啊我賣給民糧我反而還更好啊所以這個才是一個健康的一個糧食的一個方向所以我覺得這個農業的這個價格的"},{"start":11898.928,"end":11905.716,"text":"就是說糧食價格這件事對農民來說它是最直接有感的所以你們要怎麼樣再繼續去推動讓我們不要說今年好而已以後這種就是要保持著這樣的一個力道我覺得這件事就很重要"},{"start":11915.928,"end":11936.708,"text":"那當然啦齁,農作就是這樣啦齁,因為我記得我上個月齁,我們在這邊的時候,那我有聽到包括戴華委員,包括廷飛委員,事實上他們在講的,是說他們那裡有遇到災害,他們的稻谷有遇到災害,啊我們嘉義當然沒有,我們現在收起來看起來是齁,整個是一個順利的方向,所以就是說,"},{"start":11937.469,"end":11963.436,"text":"事實上整個農業受到天然災害的影響啊每個地方會有每個地方的一些差異性就比方啦就比方我最近我去沙町這樣走沙町的農民也是有很大的一個落差喔今年的果農吃壞保證你也知道所以說像水養的啦、淋浴的都沒收成水養、奶雞、淋浴"},{"start":11964.896,"end":11980.652,"text":"所有都不繳 都沒有繳費啦所以就是沒有收金 所以那個就沒有了沒有費就漂亮啦有費啦 有費沒錢啦 沒錢啦所以就看起來說果農的部分今年是收成是不好的"},{"start":11981.572,"end":12007.017,"text":"啊大概他們說是因為氣候因素天氣比較冷所以雖然開花可是後來沒有結果所以沒有收成但是氣候冷咧對山頂進地理的地農他們今年大風修對地農都要點得好他們抓今年的茶 哇茶農都收很多所以整個氣候的因素對於農業來說它就是一個"},{"start":12008.934,"end":12017.86,"text":"第一不穩定第二每一個氣候的一個干擾的一個影響如果不是說一次做大水這種的純粹是氣溫的影響每個作物都不一樣每個作物不一樣他們所需要他們認為適當的那個農作物要成長的溫度不一樣所以這個都會牽扯到的說我們今天在討論農業保險這塊的時候那它的標準怎麼定以及說他們一旦"},{"start":12037.231,"end":12045.158,"text":"遇到減產的時候要怎麼把這個氣溫的因素討論好我覺得這件事情農業部應該就是要再跟每一個產業別然後應該去討論說現主席這個農業保險他的認定標準是不是有符合這個農產品的品項我想保留這個也很重要吧"},{"start":12059.068,"end":12080.2,"text":"我就說我們現在會重新檢討每一個保單裡面的天氣山數到底它的數據到底是不是正確性是不是必須再做確認因為一些什麼樣的溫度會什麼樣的影響這可能都需要靠我們的專家去確認我們重新來檢討那必須調整的我們會立即來調整"},{"start":12082.71,"end":12102.982,"text":"所以這個很重要啦第二個就是說剛剛很多委員都有講到事實上老農津貼的這個牌幅的這個條款因為14年沒有調整嘛這14年來事實上你看物價的波動消費者物價指數是成長了16%如果你以土地的一個價值的漲幅來講漲了65%"},{"start":12105.143,"end":12114.267,"text":"所以事實上我也有提案我在上一個會期就提案這個會期我依然是把我上個會期的提案我仍然要求說這個排付條款應該要調整那排付條款要調整咧兩個層面的問題第一類就是說這個土地"},{"start":12121.189,"end":12141.478,"text":"這個土地 農民他持有土地可是這個土地不應該會造成說我最後我失去我去領這個老農津貼那或者是我的收入是多少我感覺我們在訂這個排富條款事實上對農民來說是一種剝削而且事實上柏中你可以再認真想"},{"start":12142.358,"end":12149.472,"text":"你如果想說有很多農民他可能因為排富的因素有可能他們住在這裏住他們這裏住超過標準他都不會住"},{"start":12153.257,"end":12176.777,"text":"或者他要過戶給他的子女他要過戶給子女但是這都會造成家庭的一些狀況啊所以我是覺得這種相對對農民是不公平的所以我們如果站在照顧老農的立場上我真的覺得這個排戶條款應該要檢討甚至我們可以說是不是可以讓這個排日條款就進入就讓他落日了部長"},{"start":12177.959,"end":12189.199,"text":"我非常認同委員所提的委員一直常常關心這些老農津貼的排富的部分因為像委員講的如果因為排富設定的不好"},{"start":12190.031,"end":12212.754,"text":"被逼著要賣房子造成後面的分家會造成更大的困擾所以我們也針對剛才您所提的土地的公告限值過去這麼多年來漲幅了百分之六十幾那這個部分我們有重新去試算包括你的所得包括你的財產的總額還有一個你如果自住房的這些可以扣抵的"},{"start":12213.194,"end":12238.791,"text":"我們都有適度的做調整根據相關的一個公式那我們希望說這樣透過這樣的一個比較制度化的公式那後續我們就可以每隔四年就可以滾動同步來檢討而不是純粹只是調整那個CPI而已還可以排付可以同步的去做一個處理那這個部分我想我們預計在下個會期我們在這個會期就會送到行政院去經過審議然後下個會期會進到立法院來做處理"},{"start":12243.334,"end":12266.835,"text":"好我想部長事實上我們對於農業的照顧對於農民的照顧是最基礎的一塊啦所以雖然說大家都說老農今天造成政府幾十億的預算的支出但是這都是必要支出啊因為這樣的農業人口我們要希望他可以留在農村這個對農村才是實質的有幫助所以這塊我覺得保證我們真的要"},{"start":12268.777,"end":12272.199,"text":"檢討好一個比較好的方式讓這些老農他們活得有尊嚴事實上你說每個月才領個八千一百塊也不是很多啦那說實在不是這麼多啦事實上這個錢只是說因為他就是有務農他過去的務農"},{"start":12284.764,"end":12308.916,"text":"那我們希望他繼續留在農村啊縱使老農沒做啊他沒實際下去做啊實際上老農是都拚到拚到七六八六到八十幾要做的啦但是就算他沒做啊他帶他的經驗穿修給他學一年這也是很好的農村就是需要這些人留在農村啊好不好我想我一定會朝這個方向來努力那我也相信啊我們的版本應該會讓委員滿意啦"},{"start":12313.151,"end":12328.412,"text":"好,最後我再問一下,就是說最近開始有人說雞蛋的產能過剩,因為我們知道,目前我們的雞蛋,它的日產量是12萬8千箱"},{"start":12330.214,"end":12351.254,"text":"事實上已經超過國人的需求所以有一點產能過剩事實上這就會開始反而產能過剩就會有後續的狀況的演變尤其現在也要放暑假暑假後一些像營養午餐都沒有再供應這會造成雞蛋的需求可能會相對減少所以這件事是補充 我覺得要注意一下"},{"start":12353.536,"end":12375.651,"text":"我想謝謝委員的提醒,我對雞蛋的議題一直非常關心特別是除了雞蛋的日產能以外,我覺得一個非常重要的是雞蛋的庫存也要同步考慮因為庫存有時候,他們在做市場機制調節的時候可能庫存壓力更大的時候,它就會降價它不見得直接反映到每一天的蛋產能"},{"start":12376.851,"end":12388.299,"text":"所以這個部分我們已經用一個比較有科學依據的這些調查系統去收集這個資料然後我們也針對彈廠的升級我們也在處理所以我們希望說這個彈能夠"},{"start":12390.487,"end":12407.495,"text":"維持在市場機制之下但是也不會過於太低或太高太低就影響農民的權益這個我想我們會來努力部長事實上大家最近看到像日本他們發生了這個米的價格飆漲然後他們的米的需求"},{"start":12408.335,"end":12429.286,"text":"看起來供給不夠需求事實上大家都在檢討啦所以每一個國家遇到這樣的狀況但是如果有一些狀況我們看到那些徵兆提早來佈局就可以防止類似這樣的狀況的發生這個非常重要就是說我們在徵兆一開始的時候就要進場去處理啦不然等事情"},{"start":12430.246,"end":12435.09,"text":"變得很嚴重的時候 那有很多事情後面的處理都很難處理很難處理 因為到後面的時候 講最白的啦每一次的這種需求問題都是 問題都是出在恐慌啦民眾的恐慌心態 這個恐慌心態一天就嚇起來你政府這個手怎麼出來 也不夠白色 大家緊張"},{"start":12453.944,"end":12469.457,"text":"所以我們事先的佈局把它準備好就可以防止一些可能的狀況發生 好不好好 謝謝委員提醒好 謝謝部長 好 謝謝好 謝謝蔡委員我們現在請陳超敏委員"},{"start":12478.933,"end":12481.641,"text":"謝謝子綺,首先有請陳部長陳部長沒關係,喝個水起來"},{"start":12493.379,"end":12507.449,"text":"市長蔡議員說到老農新帖,你說到我們的地價公告地價公告限制已經漲了64%所以這個排污條款一定要趕快"},{"start":12508.92,"end":12520.358,"text":"我又聽你講 下個會期一定會拿出來經過神秘的細算 我希望趕緊拿出來不然現在走到鄉下 天天都被罵你知道為了你們母親的辛苦"},{"start":12523.426,"end":12534.339,"text":"了解 一定會做的只要蔡議員說我們現在雞蛋是生產過剩你怕他註銷不是只註銷說我要調節市場你看美國物價上漲現在的雞蛋說一顆兩顆要到兩百塊"},{"start":12541.667,"end":12553.78,"text":"我們沒有關係我們跟美國關係那麼好如果我們這邊台灣的雞蛋生產的時候我們用灰機板來印過去我們還划算你覺得怎麼樣不可能我們的規模齁"},{"start":12560.146,"end":12574.534,"text":"不夠那麼大而且我們要去推銷先打知名度嘛不要以為小就不做嘛外銷不能說你有存的再買外銷沒有存的我現在是在反俄邪沒關係你給三個美國我們台美友誼堅固堅若磐石表現我們的誠意這樣就不會失效讓美國人來感謝台灣"},{"start":12583.959,"end":12594.409,"text":"雞蛋的進口要很多檢疫的條件要去談判啦所以我們現在我只是一個方向啦好不好再來你會去給日本民家現在飆漲你曉得為什麼會飆漲原因在哪裡"},{"start":12603.234,"end":12632.286,"text":"他的年度的相關的這些稻米的生產他的掌握度不夠啦所以造成一些減產以日本的掌握度集體不會說不夠我告訴你這個原因是怎樣就是日本的旅遊客去得太多你看台灣都跑到日本旅遊世界都跑到日本旅遊所以日本的米覺得好吃所以稻米不夠"},{"start":12633.649,"end":12660.497,"text":"我們台灣啊 本來最多大陸的遊客也沒有過來來得稀稀少少 所謂米家為主 我想他們也不會去這個一個很重要的因素外國旅遊客一天吃一碗不是 一餐吃一碗 一天吃三碗 你要看養的量要多少我們就要想那個土地的貸不是產量控制不足 是他們的旅遊客太多"},{"start":12661.497,"end":12676.366,"text":"而且他們把米是變成一個意識化很多遊客都去廁所加一塊加加一塊米就消失了聽說我們的小日本我不知道是小日本還是小啦你稍微報告一下我收了一下問題我再跟你講米日本的管制機制不亞於我們"},{"start":12682.694,"end":12700.868,"text":"第二個,他的理由靠太高每一個人都給他吃了一碗一碗,一天三碗你要看他量要多少,總言不講所以這種因素你們要去想我跟你說,原因是在這裡我了解,我剛才講的就是說他們其實一個國家的"},{"start":12702.048,"end":12730.327,"text":"作物的生產規劃不只是國內的需求還有外來的需求不要說回答太多啦你的米價就會上漲啦一人吃一碗就不得了了啦好不好禮物客一人一天一餐吃一碗一天三碗米價就會上漲百姓的消息這個良性行為我們去想一下好不好今天主要是說"},{"start":12732.627,"end":12759.119,"text":"我們的農業保險,保證我是最佳推銷員。我今天在農會,或是在農民節,或是在產銷班,我都說三保一軍,就是我們的農民健康保險,我們的農民職業災害保險,我們的農業保險,我叫我農民的鄉親,他們一定要去保養。但是我在上面的營港,"},{"start":12761.445,"end":12774.716,"text":"但是我看他們在聽著聽著,叫做什麼言之沉沉,聽之渺渺,就是覺得沒什麼重要我一直跟你們推銷,我覺得這裏面你們一定要去研究安裝的方法,讓農民能夠高興,又甘願來跟你們做這個保險地我今天給農業保險來說"},{"start":12784.096,"end":12791.923,"text":"你來看你農業保險的覆蓋率從109人9.5%提升到今年53.8%喔 那數字看起來不錯但是 保證 我相信你知道這個農業裡面扣到強制保險的項目啊你的覆蓋率不到20%"},{"start":12805.711,"end":12813.002,"text":"所以這幾年有在推,但是推到不是很成功的你說這個成績,我不能這樣說,你們農業部很怕病這裏面有一個重要的問題就是臨時天然災害,我們現在選擇"},{"start":12823.501,"end":12846.799,"text":"農民已經比較容易承受天然災害,你們農業更加有補助,盡!效率又好!肥料又保險的滿意,感覺這樣整理很好,我雖然補償少一點沒有關係,盡就好!看到你們的效率就好!所以這天然災害保險啦,你說酸肥素,我覺得這個不能保,民眾已經習慣了"},{"start":12848.32,"end":12874.961,"text":"有困難找政府,農業部做得很好,天然災害都沒事,都很快心事反應所以你的農業保險,這裏面就有這個問題第一,我們付出的保費,不去農業保險,你的保險公司不一定賠剛剛有講到天氣各方面的問題在,因為那些銀行吹冷氣的,因為知道地產卡在流汗,天氣的變化"},{"start":12877.728,"end":12905.575,"text":"他們那大樓地,他不了解天氣的變化有多嚴重所以在這個地方,他建造去農業保險的話保險公司不一定賠我叫我保險,他不一定給我賠,我怎麼去保險你再想想看,你不要用單純你的想法你要用農民的想法,要用保險的公司想法現在保管公司,光是貪你這裡的保險,他貪得很難過"},{"start":12907.475,"end":12931.784,"text":"他只是表面上為了社會為了這個民生為了慶三月社會的責任我照顧農民勉勉強強去保險所以這個保費我們政府提款要讓我們農民去保險地這樣農民才會心安你知道嗎誘因不足保費我付了不一定得到賠償"},{"start":12933.419,"end":12960.602,"text":"所以我給你一個概念 你要學經濟部 設立一個中小企業保險基金你農業部份啊 農業維農基金地啊這個基金該進行 他出一塊 北施出一塊那個出一塊 我看你這個概念來我們現在就有農業保險基金啊我曉得你們有啊你只要說我不知道 不然我自己問你幾句 你只要我講喔你只要講 我就不會了我沒有這樣講喔"},{"start":12963.493,"end":12986.778,"text":"好啦,我第一個沒有誘因,因為想了兩次啦還有一個,理賠沒有標準,就我跟你說的那保險公司不曉得農民種什麼,去貨怎麼樣啊沒有標準,不一定能拿到理賠的標準我教你錢又沒有賠,不然天然不治所以啊,農民是要對保險沒有信心希望這方面加強一下"},{"start":12988.284,"end":13009.924,"text":"會 謝謝委員的提醒我們也真的在檢討每一張保單那我希望那個保單是涉及到也真的能夠分擔農民的風險但是也不能讓農民說我投保就是溫暖的這個觀念我們大家會持續的宣導這個部分我想我們會強化你說對啦 不是溫暖的啦但是要有保障"},{"start":13010.424,"end":13016.058,"text":"不然我就天然災害補助我把你拉到你樓梯又繳錢給你又讓你來忙你都不知道這個行為你想說做得很好"},{"start":13020.053,"end":13040.801,"text":"農業人很怕麻煩,捏的藥不是多少錢啊不然我找你農業部天然災害補償的時候,這樣就好我一直在強調一點,你去保養沒拿到錢,我又付錢,我沒一定捏到錢保險的時候是很不穩定啊,沒一定教育的規矩來啊"},{"start":13041.781,"end":13054.533,"text":"那個標準很難定啊 天氣的參差很難掌握我跟妳講 不要用自己的心在想要想過三邊 大家想法會怎樣才會做得成功啊謝謝 謝謝委員的建議好 謝謝陳委員我們現在請鍾嘉斌委員做詢答"},{"start":13075.254,"end":13098.016,"text":"主席在場委員先進列席的政府經貿組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請農業部陳部長然後請畜牧師的李師長另外農經署李署長和農糧署的陳副署長都一併準備第一頁部長好 市長好 署長好 副署長好"},{"start":13099.158,"end":13115.67,"text":"部長先跟你講一下 不錯的消息過去我們糯農一直在埋怨台紐經濟協定紐西蘭的乳製品零關稅進口衝擊到本土糯農的生計結果我們昨天幾位委員開了一個記者會謝謝施長來提供資料這幾年"},{"start":13121.974,"end":13150.361,"text":"零關稅之後紐西蘭的液態乳進口量沒有增加呢市面的銷售金額也沒有下降呢反而是冰磚還原乳啊大量增加都跑掉什麼跑到不是零售通路的那個盒裝牛奶都跑到業務通路的那個手搖飲裡面部長知不知道這個情況我每個禮拜他們都會有包括鮮乳、薄酒乳跟冰磚乳的進口量所以我說的是不是這個情況是所以你們都要補牌換店嘛對不對"},{"start":13152.9,"end":13174.094,"text":"鹵農現在長大減少不是台牛零關稅嘛是鹵廠四大品牌廠大量進口那些冰磚懷孕乳供應到業務通路加在我們手搖飲裡面而且這個占比越來越高不怪我們本土的鹵農他們的生靈啊品牌廠說我不要給你訂那麼多有沒有這個情況 部長"},{"start":13175.677,"end":13198.859,"text":"以現在來看冰莊乳大概每一年大概一萬七千多增加到一萬八現在到六月六月的話它本身的量還在它這個範圍之內沒有暴增的非常厲害所以我是說農業部當時堅持鮮乳標章未來的食品安全就要以鮮乳標示這個地位明年七月要開始實施請農業部繼續跟酪農宣導"},{"start":13201.842,"end":13210.067,"text":"請幫諾農推廣我們的鮮乳一個通路好不好我們現在就要做 一定要做很好 謝謝謝謝市長 謝謝市長我們接下來問農保的問題其實上個月我們辦了一個考察財政委員辦了一個考察到農會去農民就反映了很多農業保險的問題那其中就有提到這個很多"},{"start":13223.029,"end":13241.918,"text":"也能心清天然再救助啦但是沒有那個保險的品項啦或者是說在檳榔樹之間種香蕉或者說椰子樹之間種檳榔只要有檳榔不被認為農作物的檳榔園裡面種有保險保單的這些作物像香蕉是不是農業保險不保"},{"start":13243.931,"end":13255.212,"text":"現在是這樣吧現在是這樣子,就是建做的但是你要知道,我們農民建做一個一個廠房裡面多種作物建做"},{"start":13255.737,"end":13274.102,"text":"是一個常態有他們的道理是不是回去評估一下類似像這樣檳榔園裡面建做香蕉這個香蕉也可以導播可以考慮嗎?辯護一下我覺得可以但這就是面積要重算面積要重算面積要重算應該是可行的你面積跟植株要重新計算可以嗎?請指示署長回去研究"},{"start":13275.502,"end":13293.694,"text":"其實我們來看一下農友反應的問題環環相扣台灣的國賓產值佔了37%一年在我們屏東的產值佔了大概32億新台幣其中你看香蕉是個重要作物但是去年的天災 最近我們常常去行星庭南台叫走的有雷夢嘛 有陸來嘛 有雙鴨嘛 陸來跟雙鴨有多大"},{"start":13300.353,"end":13323.594,"text":"目前沒有嘛所以我們是不是可以說這些農民有在栽作的這些品項保單要不要擴充品項要不要增加可以嗎?可以減價嗎?我想我們對於新保單的開發當然要看它本身的過去的數據夠不夠多才能夠算它的理賠風險這是一個很重要如果說這個數據是可以開始算的話我們就會來啟動"},{"start":13326.917,"end":13353.692,"text":"是然後第二個部分在啟動的過程中我們過往少做的就是我們比較少去我們都是開發完了以後再去跟農民宣導其實在保單設計中就應該跟農民來做參與好所以呢你剛剛講的有幾個品項啦就這個農作物的品項要不要來開發為農業保險的保單包括說它的種植面積它的產量有沒有到一定規模產值是不是夠大因為你沒有這些基本的量不然就沒辦法做嘛是"},{"start":13354.953,"end":13367.151,"text":"是不是說不會賠錢的才能做 有沒有這個規定不會啊 我們現在平均禮賠率是130欸我就跟你講 你看聽起來你講得很理直氣壯禮賠率130欸 就是因為禮賠率130不幫我們公司要做啦"},{"start":13372.651,"end":13391.708,"text":"所以我是說我們農業保險一方面我這個有點讓你為難一方面你要擴大我們作物的保單的品項內容二方面你又要找到那個保險公司你叫他怎麼都沒辦法做啦所以這個農金署要想辦法好不好這樣也用強人所難嘛 要馬而好 要馬而不吃草"},{"start":13393.251,"end":13417.685,"text":"不過現在商業保端的理賠率是47%啦商業保端是47%喔?所以還是有錢賺喔?那就趕快開發啊!我們最多的就是鳳梨釋迦啦!鳳梨釋迦我知道有很多啊!那銀行感到抱,賣你就不要做了喔?會不會這樣?我相信他們明年不會保了,因為過去平均幾年你說保險公司他不承保了是不是這個意思?是那這樣怎麼辦?那是政策保險"},{"start":13418.826,"end":13438.439,"text":"所以政策保險所以農金屬這邊要想辦法有保險公司都是兩張包袋你如果說有很多品行都有來報有的報端料有的報端攤報端公司要做嘛你全部的報端都要料他就不愛做了嘛你們現在賣的最好的保單是什麼來往上是不是水稻是不是水稻水稻的覆蓋率怎麼樣"},{"start":13439.673,"end":13459.124,"text":"學到政策型的保險啊是啊 所以呢 通通要保沒有吧八成 大概八成三八成 因為你們第一個基本型的保險它不用保護 它都幫你保了 對不對政府出錢嘛一般的加強跟優質的加強分兩種嘛其實說過去高公牛的不可以保嘛現在高公牛的可以保不可以可以保 農民知道嗎"},{"start":13460.683,"end":13469.331,"text":"應該知道 應該知道 應該啦 農糧署 我們剛剛有揣映下去啦很多農委他沒有積極去選擇啦所以這個長農 他不知道說 啊 原來喔 我們如果我們基本型的不是立法會 不用立法會喔我們那一般型的 一般加強的 跟尤其加強的 我們高工也能參加這是不是去年開始的政策對 我們的統計大概也增加了1000多公頃來投資 對"},{"start":13483.963,"end":13490.831,"text":"很好 表示一個政策符合農民的需求加強宣導好不好好就是說你今年開始啊 現在我有在去跟農會問 他們都不知道呢他們都不知道 哇 原來這政府補助一半呢這補助一半比較好 對不對好 來往前 我們來看"},{"start":13499.12,"end":13520.756,"text":"所以呢現在我們來看到了齁這個保費啊是農民要不要投保的一個關鍵對不對所以我們現在要審查的這個第十條是說本來的條文設計原來的農業作物保險原來在2020年的五月嘛六月實施嘛現在實施已經快四年多了嘛對不對所以有在討論說這個費率的問題為什麼當時你們這個費率五年之內的是75%第六年之後降為60%為什麼這樣寫給"},{"start":13527.455,"end":13543.824,"text":"我想當初的立法精神就是說在初期的時候大家對保險不是那麼熟悉所以政府如果必要的時候可以補助多一點但是有五年的時間慢慢大家了解了這些保險的精神以後"},{"start":13544.404,"end":13563.504,"text":"那應該回到保險的基本的就是它是一個風險的對價關係自己投資自己分擔好但是現在有條文說把後面的60%拿掉了只有說5年以內的是多少沒有5年以後的多少如果修法改成說5年以內的75%5年之後的變成85%你覺得這樣合不合理"},{"start":13568.356,"end":13588.891,"text":"我跟農業部的立場基本上是 我跟你講啦 說有的這種限時優惠 時間來越少啦你超過時間來 越慢來越貴啦 大家才要參加嘛 對不對所以你們原來的設計就是前高後低 鼓勵農民趕快來參訪 對不對如果改成了前低後高 我就慢慢來啊 是不是這樣子"},{"start":13590.12,"end":13606.548,"text":"所以你知道了解了沒有所以我們這次第十條的修改呢如果把這個邏輯破壞掉了那就是亂修法啦所以我希望說農業部我們今天沒有主調審查我們今天是巡打大地頭 巡打而已所以說你們這個情形在我們實際上要修改的時候你們要講清楚你前陣子頂75%後陣子頂60%就希望說前陣子五年那幼肥農民館他們參加覆蓋率提高不然他們才不會了解嘛"},{"start":13616.713,"end":13624.395,"text":"那如果說你後面的60%拿掉了 農民說要投錢75%我就投投蛋啊不可能領你90%全部補走啊 會這樣嗎會這樣嗎 所以參與率低 保蛋的範圍趕不上農民的需求還有申訴跟協調其實不足 理賠困難這個都是目前我們農業保險推動的一個問題 是不是這樣所以現在我們要怎麼樣來推進納保作物的品項 有什麼方法"},{"start":13646.838,"end":13656.074,"text":"我覺得第一個我剛才也曾經說過就是我希望農民對一個作物的保險他是一個持續性的他每年都能夠投保"},{"start":13657.231,"end":13681.966,"text":"而不是用投機的方式看到風險高就投風險低就不投那如果持續性的投保我們可以考慮它的保費可以打折用這種方式來做一個優惠設施你要想要促銷跟行銷你的保電要促銷跟行銷所以過去我2018年到2024年5年我問了5次有3個重點第一個要有一個農業金融專屬爭議的協調機構有沒有在研議了"},{"start":13684.998,"end":13701.693,"text":"這個我們有在做還有我們用科技定損的方式遙測的資料庫完善災前災後的對比機制我們現在也在做還有一個就是希望你們定期的跟農民有座談會對於農保的諮詢委員會辦理定期座談會農民意見有沒有在做"},{"start":13702.543,"end":13718.096,"text":"有在做但是我覺得還可以密度還可以再提高所以希望這三點本席有提出來像今天說的這個品項還有修法希望農業部繼續加油好不好好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請邱志偉委員做詢答"},{"start":13729.72,"end":13734.102,"text":"謝謝主席我是不是請農業部陳部長然後漁業署王署長王署長我也好部長辛苦了部長上個月我經濟委員會考察到北高雄我選區的一些漁業的建設大概我想謝謝王署長全程參與"},{"start":13756.509,"end":13782.855,"text":"這部分,每一項工程我都親自去看過都有急迫性跟必要性,對移民的幫助也大所以集中在延安、彌德,加那些家庭保溫是在歐來,這都是養殖醫院專區所以這保溫,大家都很重要先請教一下王署長,您也都有陪我去看過"},{"start":13784.095,"end":13807.538,"text":"每一項你都會提出寶貴的意見漁業署都全力支持那現在說我今天在利用這個質詢的機會在請部長能夠更了解署長很認真很用心每一項的建設工程啊我邀請他他都親身參與而且他都提出專業的意見所以這些高行是不是可以請他補充請農業部全力支持漁業署"},{"start":13808.459,"end":13815.347,"text":"把這個酒巷這個工程依序把它完成我想以農業部長一定會支持"},{"start":13816.468,"end":13844.146,"text":"然後現在就是牽涉到經費看夠不夠我會後面去看這個經費夠的話因為這裡可能有些是分年的嘛如果沒記錯好像署長說應該沒有問題啦對他有的是分年如果分年的話就比較沒問題啦如果同一年的話可能可能經費會不夠啦分年當然是他有他有這個比方說有年限有三年期或者是兩年期所以這個回去我想基本上我們會支持但是極必要的這個優先來做"},{"start":13846.668,"end":13855.935,"text":"LNG海水管線的擴充工程這個這部分尤其3.53.5那個我們有共識我們有討論過這個可以優先處理這個我們會來協助那這個謝謝署長署長請先回那第二個是關於保險這個我們天災救助未來有沒有可能做一些轉變天災救助如果轉型成這個免費的農業保險"},{"start":13878.247,"end":13900.665,"text":"我們也曾經考慮過就是逐步把天然災害救助轉為農業保險那水稻是一個先行的案例那它有一個前提就是原來天然災害可能過去三年過去五年平均的農損的金額要直接轉到那個保險基金來而不是 經費沒有到位的話未來如果理賠的話是沒有經費理賠的"},{"start":13902.103,"end":13916.765,"text":"我們從一個數據來對照我們的農業保險的這個保費的補助這個支出在整體補助的比重大概只有一趴啦這跟美國比較起來是天差地遠所以大家想說我們的農業安全網"},{"start":13918.083,"end":13933.172,"text":"它整個架構你這偏重於產品以及要素的補貼所以這部分反而整個農業保險政策在你們整體的施政裡面還不是相對重要的一個角色你要想面對"},{"start":13934.332,"end":13957.586,"text":"這個氣候變遷跟貿易自由化農業安全往下面的農業保險是非常重要所以要有前瞻性跟有韌性所以這部分是不是可以往這方面去思考吧天然救助的轉型成免費農業保險可行性品 你也先做一個可行性評估對 我們可以先做看哪一些品項可以"},{"start":13958.939,"end":13978.089,"text":"由天然災害的保險轉到農業的保險這個我想我們可以來評估然後比較可行的我們也許可以現在試辦這個部分是不是可以請三個月之內提出一個可行性評估你們初步的規劃一個月三個月三個月可以三個月做出一個比較詳細的評估報告你們以未來的初步規劃繼續再請教部長還有我們署長"},{"start":13987.514,"end":14014.09,"text":"這個如果農保把強勢性的納保把它扣除 事實上我們負保率啊 覆蓋率20.7現在20.7啦 是OK 我們數據沒有更新所以那整體的覆蓋率是五成多啦所以代表說你扣掉強勢性納保比如說水道 那個住宅保險所以只要20點多那部分高風險 譬如說九板椅啦"},{"start":14016.712,"end":14030.397,"text":"平均才2.7而已喔?對,九板魚養殖的年期大概要5、6年如果霸王級的寒流好像2017年的時候造成整個石斑魚是大崩盤所以這個有保險制度你要針對比如說九板魚"},{"start":14039.821,"end":14057.795,"text":"芒果、木瓜、洋楓這個基本上是零頭保或者低頭保但是它是一個高災損只要發生天然氣候變遷或者造成氣候嚴重的傷害他們基本上沒有得到保險的cover"},{"start":14058.706,"end":14077.817,"text":"所以這部分你們有沒有怎麼樣去做調整把這些漁業長期處於低淘寶的狀態把它能夠有效提升我跟委員報告剛才就是扣掉強制性的話只有20.7%其中漁業的部分才2.7%是最直接的"},{"start":14078.377,"end":14101.644,"text":"那我們現在我初步的想法可能還要跟那個漁業署他們去討論喔我覺得比較高產值高風險的如果一旦出現它損失特別高的這個部分可能要另外拉出來去設計一套方法石斑魚就是嘛石斑魚高風險然後它是高度依賴外銷高風險的跟一般風險或者低風險的它的寶貝的設計設計應該是不一樣的啦你現狀來看石斑魚我要幫你報告"},{"start":14107.746,"end":14114.534,"text":"106我們推出已經要幾年了七八年了對不對現在投保面積不到100公頃全台中央是面積2%以下"},{"start":14120.233,"end":14145.175,"text":"那這種狀況你要把那個高風險 石板業高風險然後依賴外銷的這些產業把它納入農保的範圍您認為呢我想我們剛才說的我們在上個月一併評估天然災害一方面可能天然災害轉過來另外一方面就是像我剛才說的把這些用風險值去分高中低然後設計不同的一些保險的這些規範是 好"},{"start":14148.598,"end":14162.155,"text":"按照這個脈絡繼續再請教您你們在這個設計農業保單的時候這個相關的這個你們的政策大概傾向於重視的你保單數量要怎麼成長 理賠的金額累計來評估做一個成效的評估"},{"start":14164.997,"end":14190.683,"text":"但是你要從需求面還有品項公平性來切入才是比較符合農民的期待所以保險制度應該是對小農跟非主力的產業作為有更多的保障但目前現狀是保障非常的薄弱所以你應該從風險程度跟災害頻率以及產業脆弱性的連動做一個補助的設計牡蠣有沒有保險"},{"start":14193.554,"end":14198.288,"text":"現在沒有 最主要是他的保費太高現在以他們保險工程算出來的那個保費太高啦"},{"start":14199.069,"end":14227.729,"text":"我意思說你要有差異化差異化的補助條件不是這個花一條線就是它補助標準都一樣到這個天候所以這個部分不能有固定的補助比例應該用產業的特性這品項的特性來做這個差異性的補助條件的設計以及它災損的頻率評估機制有些農產品它災損頻率很低有些是很高"},{"start":14228.837,"end":14246.403,"text":"因為傷害這個輕重只要一衝擊一來有些傷害很重有些傷害相對沒那麼重所以是不是能夠有差異化的這個補助條件設計我想非常認同委員所提到的差異化的補助包括它的自災的風險還有包括它的一個相關的災損的程度"},{"start":14247.183,"end":14260.542,"text":"那這個部分如果用加權的方式去處理的話應該可以設計出另外一個遊戲規則我覺得我們可以朝這方面來努力謝謝部長我們繼續努力那另外這個國產羊肉國產羊肉一個公山"},{"start":14262.086,"end":14277.261,"text":"宮山市有名就是岡山羊肉,柏柳你吃過嗎?我吃過那目前國產羊肉市占率是5%而已啦,但是它有季節性的消費傾向,高低牛肉肉比較好消,低低就比較不好消現在的這個價格,國產羊這個拍賣行情"},{"start":14286.943,"end":14294.773,"text":"最近跌幅到180所以有時候到170幾跌幅到三成多每次一樣成本是2.3萬 二或兩萬三"},{"start":14298.444,"end":14323.709,"text":"你賣一支賠一支那針對這個部分農業部有沒有什麼相關的補救措施我們現在啟動了一個機制就是先有協助他們做宰殺凍存先做凍存做一個產期的調節啦不然你同時這樣繼續下去價格會越來越低所以有一些東西不一定要上市直接用凍存的方式去調節它上市的量"},{"start":14324.289,"end":14351.732,"text":"那這個部分我們現在已經在做相關的團體跟羊農有做過這個接觸對 已經有跟他們做討論他們知道說政府有在提供對 他們也接受這樣的一個方法他們也覺得這個方法是可以接受的好 最後一個問題我再花這個一分鐘來跟部長請教就是說台日米食的鏈結這個很重要但是需要一個制度性的長期合作的機制的那像日本釋出廚備米"},{"start":14353.257,"end":14368.659,"text":"阿對台灣的這個米出口會不會有這個比較屬於中長期的影響你們評估怎麼樣我們個人就是內部的一個評估齁就是我們其實每年稻米的外銷大概是平均大概3500日本啦3500噸左右那"},{"start":14369.7,"end":14398.153,"text":"今年會比較高有一部分原因是因為他們日本缺米但是我們長期來看我們不能依靠著他缺米才增加我們的銷售所以要建立一個供應鏈要長期的合作協定一定要有一個協議包括有在進行嗎有在進行而且我們像今年我們也邀請了他們很多大商社來這邊希望說能夠能夠定期的去契作或者是直接跟我們這個政策是跟商社去談就好還是要通過農林水產省"},{"start":14399.033,"end":14427.844,"text":"沒有 我們透過商社直接去做長期通路他們政府有沒有 農林水產省有沒有真的總和關稅的品質現在就是商社給我們回報就是他打特定的族群的時候就算關稅外的那個金額他們吸收都還有賺頭他們就願意我們不要是因為只要缺名的時候我們這個數量增加對 就是這樣子常態性的合作 這很重要對 常態性的合作就是要通路鏈接如果需要國會我們可以去拜訪他們的農林水產省"},{"start":14428.484,"end":14450.345,"text":"我們曾經談過啦 但是日本對米的那個額度配額跟我們一樣堅持就不讓步啦但是這個台日友好這個是最近幾年產業合作業交流我想他們對台灣會非常非常比較友善啦我們曾經問過啦 他說稻米不要碰啦"},{"start":14451.946,"end":14479.469,"text":"他說因為他們對稻民 那矢板魚可不可以矢板魚就有機會啦矢板魚再談一下啦矢板魚我們可以談啦矢板魚再努力一下 好 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請徐富奎委員做詢答謝主席 有請我們陳部長還有漁業署王署長"},{"start":14480.841,"end":14481.426,"text":"陳部長 王署長"},{"start":14488.411,"end":14515.402,"text":"委員好 部長署長午安我想剛剛聽到我們邱志維委員提到很多的一些的建設我想高屏過去一向是我們這個漁業的重鎮我相信部長跟署長也常常到高屏地區關心我們一些漁業的問題那尤其今年我們看到今年的東港的黑鮪魚一樣這個獵的量也很大的那我們也在6月8號都截止"},{"start":14515.822,"end":14539.312,"text":"那請見我們過去長期對於這個漁業的保育跟我們這個漁民的這個互動上面有做一個很好的一個改善的一個機制那我想我們也期待農業部跟漁業署繼續支持我們的一個漁業的一個發展部長認同絕對認同這個漁業是我們必須要去支持的產業尤其屏東除了這個高屏地區我們一直經常"},{"start":14542.843,"end":14571.426,"text":"很大力的協助了是因為最近部長跟署長也常常到屏東我想我們除了這個遠洋近海的這個捕撈作業之外還有我們的養殖也是養殖也是所以針對這樣的一個軟硬體建設還是要請部長跟署長來大力支持那不過最近我們有聽到我們這個漁業署我們提出了一個遠洋漁船的一個薪資保障的一個制度甚至提出一個公資電廠的一個互助基金署長"},{"start":14572.227,"end":14573.05,"text":"這個制度當時為什麼會有這個構想"},{"start":14577.113,"end":14602.103,"text":"跟委員報告基本上我們現在整個遠洋產業在面對國際上的壓力很大一塊就是強迫勞動這一塊那為什麼大家會認定台灣的漁業會有強迫勞動的情形這是最近這兩三年單單發生欠薪的船的個案大概有10件那每一個欠薪的個案大概都欠了12個月到18個月不等"},{"start":14602.623,"end":14615.061,"text":"所以變成在NGO或是美國在認定你台灣整個遠洋產業裡面你這一個雇主經營者你沒有履行到你要付薪水這樣的一個義務所以國際對我們的責難很大"},{"start":14619.126,"end":14644.312,"text":"這個付薪水這件事本來就是我們經營者你應付的一個義務所以我們後來是設計一套就是說未來你如果每個月付薪水的你要跟我散盡這一個通報的義務讓我知道你有每個月付薪水那我們的東港的小吊有一個特色是他一行次回來才付一次薪水問題是一行次回來是八個月"},{"start":14644.912,"end":14667.327,"text":"那等我們發現他欠薪水的時候這八個月欠起來都已經不是那個仲介保證金可以處理所以我們才想說發展出一道漁民自己之間提繳一定額度的互助金那目前我們馬上可以來做處理一艘船先繳五萬總湊了五千萬的一個基金這個版本嗎"},{"start":14668.167,"end":14684.308,"text":"我們現在希望是一年大概兩千萬那大概分三年逐年把這一個互助金的這一個水庫可以達到五千萬的這樣的一個規模蘇長你知道現在這個方案在地方已經造成很大的雜音嗎"},{"start":14685.525,"end":14710.882,"text":"我了解我了解但是其實跟委員報告這個有少數一些漁民有比較大的反彈聲音部長我想我們支持我們要照顧我們的這個漁工的權益但是我想用這樣的一個制度把所有大家一起去承擔風險但是對有的人說有可能就是少數的人他藉由這個機會他就是幫你幫忙不幫你錄影我們怎麼面對這樣的一個機制"},{"start":14718.649,"end":14728.3,"text":"我個人覺得就是你雇船員不管是國內或外籍的你應該付薪水這天經地義的然後你如果有一些"},{"start":14729.554,"end":14751.071,"text":"包括委員長有提到 如果說你的風險很高的話我就會強勢你去做一些護住金的提繳應該是選擇性的做處理那你如果說是正常繳的 你就是提報嘛所以我覺得現在還是在做溝通但是溝通中有不同的意見 我相信我們會收集起來以後然後再做一個調整啦"},{"start":14751.651,"end":14766.694,"text":"對啦,我今天還是要去溝通,要去收集意見啦比較只是你們現在的做法就是我就是不會這樣做,你們都要聽我的所有的反彈都是我們這些民意代表在承受你們都不要聽我的意見我想喔"},{"start":14767.435,"end":14785.065,"text":"我們現在會去溝通其實並不是說我們政策已經訂了然後去宣導這是兩件事情所以在溝通過程中如果有一些不同的意見我想我們待會來會重新去設計這個部分我想我們可以承諾會去做一個檢討好部長署長所以我還是要特別提到說這樣的案子"},{"start":14785.565,"end":14807.292,"text":"我們應該再來審慎來評估來討論一下甚至今年黑鮪魚的一個捕撈的一個制度當然我感謝署長跟部長的支持我們去年檢討完之後今年在運作上面當然已經有順暢很多但是還是有值得去要檢討的地方我再找時間再跟你來討論一下我相信我們一年要做的比一年更好"},{"start":14808.112,"end":14827.971,"text":"那另外剛剛我們邱志永委員有提到的那個建設問題我想我自己本身也帶了署長也看了好幾個地方我想包含我們的周縣長上一次部長來我們口提的疫區記者會的時候周縣長也有特別跟部長拜託那所以針對東港、漁港部長現在檢報啊這個沿流線那邊"},{"start":14829.926,"end":14851.396,"text":"很漂亮的 是一個觀光的景點但是相對現在東港碼頭這邊還是一樣破舊不堪真的要加快來進行東港現在是這麼重要的一個漁業發展的一個基地 那個景觀一定要顧起來部長能不能支持這樣的一個案件我想我們漁業署會跟縣府先做一個整體的規劃第二個部分就是所有的"},{"start":14852.986,"end":14881.524,"text":"經費需要支持我們一定努力來但是還是要有一個我們的總預算的限制所以相對的就是後續提出來的這些規劃我想第一個就是說縣府跟我們這邊要怎麼樣的去有一個更完整的規劃我覺得比較重要而不是一個規劃完了以後一直擴大或是一直追加那樣子的話農業部的經費沒有辦法被這樣子一個使用所以我想我們後續我想漁業組會跟縣府會做一個更完整的規劃"},{"start":14883.049,"end":14906.326,"text":"部長那我想最後一個就是5月27號我們感謝農業部跟漁業署的支持我們仿寮區漁會的漁市場在5月27號已經啟用這個花了5000多萬那製冰場也明年要完工那最後一里路就是這個擴港的一個計畫我想擴港計畫一完成之後包含我們所有仿寮漁港230艘的漁船一年的拍賣量200多噸"},{"start":14908.007,"end":14927.765,"text":"交易的金額有將近六千多萬現有的福利確實是不服使用請部長也要支持這樣一個擴港計畫我相信未來之後仿良也是我們未來在這個屏東的這個屏中跟屏南的發展的很重的一個漁業的一個基地部長願意支持嗎我想仿良漁港的部分我覺得那個金額已經"},{"start":14928.946,"end":14958.035,"text":"沒有辦法用我們的公務預算去支應所以我覺得像類似的未來的漁港的建設我覺得可能我們要重新去檢討然後用提一個比較具體的專案計畫向行政院爭取不然我們就用那個往前推進我們繼續就是往前所以我想用專案的計畫把所有的漁港必須建設的一次看怎麼樣的去向行政院爭取不然以現在那個我們的公務預算其實並不多支持一個漁港就掛掉了"},{"start":14959.296,"end":14969.329,"text":"部長最後一個我想我們今天感謝就是我們支持我們這個養殖的我們的一個海水供應站的系統但是我們現在有發現一個問題因為我們現在海水供應站並沒有串聯"},{"start":14975.077,"end":15004.266,"text":"那最近發生了我們加東溫豐的海水供應站他們在稅休的時候他沒辦法供水給這些養殖戶就變成養殖戶還是必須要用原本舊的管去抽水我覺得這個機制是有問題的我們既然要做供應站之後應該要把這些管路那些世界器官的管線應該把它除掉但是他們對漁民來講他們怎麼樣取得他們的水權的運用的這一塊是不是應該漁業署我們跟縣政府也要來討論一下"},{"start":15005.547,"end":15026.888,"text":"這個備援系統要怎麼做處理好 謝謝委員的建議我覺得委員的建議非常重要就是說兩個不同的海水供應系統之間要有可能的串聯的備援系統才能夠讓它能夠互相支援那這個部分我想我們約署這邊也在積極在做就是兩個部分之間的備援系統怎麼規劃然後未來再跟委員請教看要怎麼樣去做"},{"start":15027.749,"end":15036.215,"text":"在對地方是最適當的 都是獨立的部分能夠做怎麼樣一個對這個這個應該在其實建設的時候就應該規劃進去啦是好這個我們再來我們會來努力來做好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請楊瓊英委員做詢問謝謝主席楊瓊英發言邀請我們部長陳部長"},{"start":15060.892,"end":15074.977,"text":"我想面對於整個氣候變遷跟極端災害的頻率上升那麼我們努力的也就是農業保險條例這個對我們農民來講是非常的重要因為剛剛所說的這兩項因素"},{"start":15078.218,"end":15092.585,"text":"對於整個農業經營的風險是日益的在升高那所以我們的農業保險制度呢應該是要保障我們農民的所得穩定農業經濟的一個重要的一個政策工具"},{"start":15093.485,"end":15103.629,"text":"但是我們看到目前為止似乎在整個執行的情形不如我們預期那又因為這樣的因素所以我也統計到112年底我們自立性投保的農民僅佔了6.17%漁業、漁產跟農作物的覆蓋率甚至是達到2.13跟2.8那都基於3"},{"start":15117.834,"end":15128.418,"text":"當然在去年度113年我們不斷的在調整方案113年度那是有增加的但是我們仍舊認為在這樣的風險高風險的因子當中我認為我們還有很大的一個成長空間"},{"start":15135.101,"end":15153.447,"text":"那所以今天我們的召委我們也跟著一起來提案也就是怎麼樣在思緒怎麼樣能夠讓我們的農民更加的得到保障又更加的誘因讓他們可以來參加保險有很多的高經濟的產值的我們的農業比如說我們的這個來養這個產值非常的高但是現在高風險它不掉果"},{"start":15165.305,"end":15168.927,"text":"有時候就掉在我們的這個紙包裡頭結果它裡面是因為陰風搖曳而斷掉它到最後沒有辦法得到養分所以到最後到最後也是沒效的這個果實就壞掉了那所以看了這麼大一顆可是它竟然是沒有辦法"},{"start":15191.1,"end":15207.227,"text":"來採收農民的損失非常的大所以我們也提出了也就是我們的農業保險的這個部分在前五年上限75%的協助第六年60%那因應這個整個策略性以及老天爺給我們的一個挑戰"},{"start":15209.108,"end":15212.873,"text":"以前沒有想過的現在都會發生在這樣的情況之下我們非常的希望能夠把誘因能夠把條件更加的放寬因時因類別而定制所以我希望的也就是行政部門不要一下子"},{"start":15227.811,"end":15249.346,"text":"就否決委員的提案 因為我從早上聽到現在我不希望如此 而是希望把這些寶貴的意見來綜合我們所有的條件以因應我們因為氣候變遷 極端災害所受損農民的痛苦跟他的收入 請做說明"},{"start":15250.306,"end":15277.861,"text":"我跟委員報告第一個就是我絕對沒有否定所有委員的版本這第一個要說明的第二個就是說委員的版本裡面那你就要支持啊沒有沒有對不對因為委員的版本裡面第六年百分之六十把它拿掉以後那就有它的不確定性啦不一定是提高喔也可以是零喔因為沒有寫嘛一到五年有寫那原來的六年以後最上限是六十"},{"start":15278.641,"end":15288.065,"text":"所以要因應實際需求啊所以不受限在60啊你也可以繼續75啊甚至因應特別情況你也可以80啊所以剛剛本期特別說了是因應你的類別跟因應氣候變遷跟極端災害的頻率嘛所以重點是在第二項裡面要求農業部一定要定期的檢討我覺得那個才是重點然後第二個就是說"},{"start":15307.112,"end":15325.949,"text":"那個我們現在就算一到前面五年是75上限因為法律規定是上限嘛那以農業部來講以農業部來講我們實際在過去五年大概是用二分之一為標準也沒有到上限那我們鼓勵跟地方政府合作那地方政府出太多的話"},{"start":15326.209,"end":15350.329,"text":"是因為只有二分之一所以你的誘因沒有也沒有那麼多剛開始大家怕怕的所以也沒有宣討的那麼好那現在逐步有一點成績所以這個議題這樣子我希望你們去好好檢討我們整個農業保險制度要怎麼樣去提升頭髮的意願真正能夠保護我們的農民跟他的經濟收益我相信這個共識點"},{"start":15352.45,"end":15381.488,"text":"部長應該同意吧就是台中市的部分農業部補二分之一台中市政府補四成所以農民只出一成然後用這種方式也不會違背現在的法律規定現在法律規定只是這是因為我們盧市長他對於農業當非常的關心啊可是你不一定每件事都是如此啊今天是你是農業部是中央啊不能拿一個來比喻啊你比喻其他你比不了啊我告訴你好"},{"start":15382.128,"end":15405.029,"text":"所以我跟你說 這最重要 你好好去檢討我們的農業保險制度 要怎麼提升這個投保的意願要怎麼可以確保 我們農民的權利跟有經濟收入以因應 我還是回歸最源頭氣候變遷跟極端的災害頻率 好不好 你去研議好 那第二個 本校要請教 視網"},{"start":15407.296,"end":15435.618,"text":"赤網的部分最近媒體一直在披露宜蘭南方澳的豆腐甲海域它是整個 它是這個三港區但是有一些潛水的教練他們在那裡發覺到了這個問題民眾幫我們發覺政府就要有責任去管控赤網本來就是在2021年的時候我們就已經說了喔赤網實名制 對不對 部長"},{"start":15437.847,"end":15447.332,"text":"2021年我們就說治網要實名制你這個網路面前要有一個準確的編號所以萬一發生你才有線索去瞭解這是誰做的啊對不對那現在這個區塊都是什麼 珊瑚耶這珊瑚這麼寶貴耶你這樣任由他去抓尤其現在又是龍蝦的旺季"},{"start":15464.381,"end":15479,"text":"對不對 那可以嗎那我們政府要怎麼應對 請教我覺得這種行為是絕對不允許的絕對不允許我們也加強了這個實名制的查核但是很可惜很遺憾的就是說現在目前"},{"start":15480.256,"end":15491.345,"text":"包覆在那個三胡椒上面的那個刺網齁他並沒有辦法查到他的實名制可能是更早之前的啊所以你的方法不對嘛你既然你明知道有這個問題政府沒有辦法去應對"},{"start":15495.004,"end":15507.467,"text":"這樣子應付應付都可以這次你要好好去應對你要有方法你查不到那是誰可是誰怎麼放下去你要去找方法啊因為你不能破壞啊整個珊瑚家園這個是我們聽了心都會痛欸怎麼辦"},{"start":15513.311,"end":15530.398,"text":"所以我才會說因為雖然說現在沒辦法查到那個已經覆蓋在珊瑚江的刺網但是後續我們會針對這邊區域跟地方政府還有跟海巡要去強化就是說任何一個刺網你只要出去的話我先檢查你有沒有實名制再說"},{"start":15531.218,"end":15549.396,"text":"管控對不對從源頭管控而去落實行動才能夠保住對不對而且這個次網是出去也要回來喔你不能出去以後回來就不見了所以部長你知道嗎你們比如說去年你的次網你查獲得有幾件啊"},{"start":15550.799,"end":15569.494,"text":"你查獲有幾件你前年查獲的有幾件去年我們總共查了23件那處分的有13件前年幾件前年是17件 處分是11件部長你聽了會不會心痛你有方法要寫越來越多要不要改變方法"},{"start":15570.234,"end":15581.751,"text":"對不對前年跟去年 增加那你要不要改變方法這個是我們行政部門的責任對不對尤其它又是珊瑚區又是商港區不容許"},{"start":15583.052,"end":15609.188,"text":"要注意現在是農家的旺季生產旺季可以抓的旺季要趕快去圍堵好啦要有應對方法好不好最後一個議題你把方案給本席齁最後一個議題齁糧食產業全面升級方案就是你在6月10號你們所推動我也給予鼓勵也就是要讓我們地區農會大家都能夠有契作的制度欸對不起這個這個"},{"start":15612.373,"end":15639,"text":"都能夠要有契作的這個制度你強化整個統一栽培管理安全用藥產銷履歷的驗證跟水稻收入的保險機制這個非常重要來提升我們整個稻米的品質跟穩定農民的收益這也是我們一直一直一直在努力的所以在這邊本期要請教因為我們台灣米有夠讚世界讚我們觀光我們的這個品種"},{"start":15640.86,"end":15663.87,"text":"還有栽培技術跟實惠優勢會加了QQQ 哇 這個是又香 這太棒了所以我們外銷的潛力會很多 怎麼樣能夠有管道可以讓我們的農民 水稻的農民 他們的收益能夠更好到目前為止 你1月份到5月份呢 我給你統計你外銷日本是大概突破7700公噸"},{"start":15665.771,"end":15685.407,"text":"那是因為那是因為比去年同期增加6倍那是因為日本的米在走所以米荒所以我們這個時機做對了所以請教部長既然有這樣子的一個方案那我們針對於稻米在外銷的部分你是不是有針對日本不要因為人家米荒"},{"start":15686.408,"end":15688.711,"text":"我非常認同委員所說的也是我們在做的"},{"start":15705.802,"end":15730.649,"text":"我們不能因為日本缺米然後我們短時間之內供給比較多的米就引以為傲其實我們要消耗日本的米是一個優質的而且是要長期的供應的部分兩個重點第一個重點就是現在各縣市有很多各縣市優質的米那我們會協助它有一個品牌因為我覺得打造日本要用品牌去打第二個就是通路的鏈接啦"},{"start":15731.229,"end":15755.328,"text":"那通路鏈結我們現在也跟很多日本的大商社邀請他們來台灣然後去參訪我們的稻米的產地然後希望說他們能夠用一個比較長期的訂單來支持這個部分才是我們要的對 這個也是政府的責任品牌 通路 穩定 採購 制度非常的重要因為我們台灣米是非常的"},{"start":15756.729,"end":15783.644,"text":"這個棒喔 那我也希望近期可以聽到好的消息 方向是對了因為我們國內米要差不多30多塊那你外銷一定會比較好而且幫我們也等於做一個外交也協助我們的農民這是非常好的一個方向一定要加油有了好的成績請告訴大家可以開一個記者會告訴我們的通路是怎麼樣我們的米是怎麼樣好好的去宣傳 好不好幫助我們的農民 謝謝"},{"start":15786.445,"end":15805.096,"text":"好谢谢现在请陈冠廷委员做询答你好我们请部长陈部长"},{"start":15811.693,"end":15827.148,"text":"來 我也好 部長好部長 我有看這個貴部的書面報告那其中農業保險的覆蓋率到今年的4月底已經達到了53.72%離賠的金額已經超過60億這個我覺得是一個很大的一個進展可是"},{"start":15828.309,"end":15847.862,"text":"這個地方我想要請教部長我們知道超過五成的覆蓋率中它政策性引導的水稻水稻的保險它是佔相當大的比例那也就是說很多種植多元作物的農民那可能還在觀望他想要尋找一個更適合他們的好商品他們經營類型的好商品"},{"start":15848.402,"end":15864.046,"text":"所以我想請教部長 部長你裡面有提到說持續進行開發開發保單來去符合農民的需求這個部分那除了現行的單一品項有沒有可能設置更多樣化經營的這個農民的保險商品"},{"start":15865.359,"end":15893.069,"text":"我跟委員說明就是說我們現在如果扣掉政策性的保險我們的覆蓋率大概20.7那20.7裡面如果看品項的部分的話你會發現說漁產品的部分特別低才2.7而已然後有的作物是非常低所以我們現在會針對這些過往的投保有保單但是投保的件數非常低的我們拉出來重新去檢討到底那張保單為什麼不受歡迎"},{"start":15894.189,"end":15909.475,"text":"這個部分我想我們會檢討然後第二個部分就是新的就是我們也發現說有一些農民需要一些新的保單那這個部分我想我們也會來開發但是開發有一個前提就是他的過往的這些風險有沒有災損的資訊要夠才能夠開發所以我想我們會持續來精進謝謝部長"},{"start":15915.177,"end":15935.749,"text":"那部長我之所以問這個問題是因為我們有很多種植多樣化這個作物的青龍跟我們反映就是說它不是種一個而已啦它是種番茄啦 鳳梨啦 等等這種不同對 綜合的可是現在的保單他們的反應是說只能夠覆蓋到單一作物所以他是希望說可不可以開發更多元的這種保單讓這些青龍有機會能夠來去納保那保障比較不足的也可以提高他們的投保的意願"},{"start":15941.152,"end":15956.888,"text":"那這個部分不知道部長有沒有什麼看法因為有一種保單的方式就是按照他們整個農場的總收入來去未來可以去調節作物的種類來去應對市場的變化你們覺得這可行嗎 部長你怎麼看不過我想中和的農場裡面"},{"start":15958.61,"end":15970.017,"text":"我已經聽過很多農民在跟我講我覺得那個可以設計但是用總收入的概念的時候因為我們現在的農民缺乏收入的依據對沒錯你說稻穗的資料都沒有的時候你就很難去計算"},{"start":15974.619,"end":15998.325,"text":"所以我想我們初步也許會針對同一個地區它種的比例是多少我們有一個機制是可以用中二的方式來處理這樣我們會有利益其實不曉得這個我在質詢你之前我其實就已經在跟媒體部來討論看有什麼樣的更好的方式所以這個不是做不到另外就是說要怎麼設計因為其實像美國日本他們還有歐盟都有這個農場總收入保險的制度所以說"},{"start":15999.565,"end":16016.208,"text":"第一線農民的期盼那也有國際的範例所以我們就可以來想方法是看怎麼樣去設計那剛才其實部長你提到的其實我蠻理解的因為就沒有這個相關的報稅資料你怎麼去做一個統計怎麼去做換算那怎麼樣才可以設計出好的保險嘛但是"},{"start":16017.189,"end":16032.337,"text":"這個是挑戰但不見得不一定啦不一定一定要完全來依賴這一個報稅的資料就是我們過去農損的時候也常常講到一件事就是看你像地區的平均產量啊或者是市場公開拍賣的均價等等的有沒有可能用這些其他種類的公開數據來建立這個計算的模型"},{"start":16036.397,"end":16054.917,"text":"不過我想這個部分我可以請我們的同仁業人專案去研究啦因為中和農場跟個別的產量它本身的比較一定要有個加權去調整所以這個請他們先做評估因為我也沒有說有預設立場說你就用這個平均產量還是用市產公開拍賣就沒有了"},{"start":16055.858,"end":16071.51,"text":"這還是希望農業部 我們可以來請他們來評估對對對 這相關的咱去研究一下怎麼樣才能夠把這個多樣化的這種保單類型來做出來因為現在青農不是只做單一作物嘛那他們有各種不同的看法想法那我覺得是可以試試看的"},{"start":16072.17,"end":16090.583,"text":"那部長我也拜讀了就是關於這個保費輔助裡面的報告裡面我當然理解說在有限的我們還是財政支援不是無限不是我們想怎麼樣就可以怎麼樣那確保說輔助的效益那還要避免我們道德的風險那但是如果與其就像剛才你提到我們在算嘛就哪一個最沒有"},{"start":16091.263,"end":16116.218,"text":"沒有效益的把它剔除掉讓我們的未來的保單更有效益或者是說把這個比起把這個資源輔助分散在數十種的單一保單上我認為把一部分的資源就剛剛講的來試辦一下我們剛才提到的多種類的這個農場走收入的保險我覺得是不是可以更我認為啦可以更優化預算的效益那對未來我們產業升級那是有幫助的"},{"start":16116.778,"end":16131.988,"text":"好 謝謝部長部長真的要研究一下我們地方很多農會都有在想這件事情因為本身補助的上限是一件事情但是如何更精進保單的效率讓農民願意來投保才是比較重要的我們必須要關切的"},{"start":16132.348,"end":16161.433,"text":"這除了單一個別農民講這是很多農民又反映到農會然後農會再跟我們講所以我想這個是可以做的那農會這些有在算他覺得說這個可能會增加投保的意願特別青農現在都回來了再麻煩一下好不好好謝謝好謝謝現在請李彥秀委員做詢答謝謝我可不可以先請金管會的王專委王專委"},{"start":16167.223,"end":16192.404,"text":"我先請問一個小子題就是有關保險法前一陣子已經修法已經三讀完成了但是保單遭扣押後的相關的處置其實現在還是有很多的爭議就是說我們一般人的財產當遭到扣押之後我們債務人就沒有辦法去處分我們的財產譬如說我們的房子遭扣押之後我們就不能再去做房子其他的"},{"start":16193.224,"end":16218.978,"text":"再去用房子來抵押來借款我想這個你非常清楚那當然保單遭到扣押之後這個藥保人當然不能再拿保單再去做借款我想這個是清楚的那但是保單遭到扣押之後其實藥保人不能再去處分保單包括借款節約的行為但是一般我們在投保的時候都會附註說是不是可以自動墊付保險費"},{"start":16220.379,"end":16232.968,"text":"我們在做保險的時候通常會填這個事實所以有時候保單遭扣押的時候我們會發現事實上那個金額因為一般我如果被扣押事實上我不會再持續的去繳保費了那電付保費的性質其實在我看來其實就是借款"},{"start":16239.133,"end":16247.339,"text":"但是如果保險公司就是說繼續的去扣那個店角的保費的時候其實事實上這跟當時的法律是互相違背的我認為當時在保單的有關保單的強制執行法制化之後我們保險局應該盡速的跟保險公司跟法院去釐清就是說我們是不是應該對扣押時存在的這個解約的金額其實要去釐清應該不要 照理說應該不能持續做"},{"start":16269.954,"end":16288.587,"text":"這個帶電那個電付的這個電付自動電付的保險費的這個動作所以我覺得這個部分是不是應該要持續的去做釐清否則的話這跟當時我們當時那個金額就會不一樣如果持續代扣下去的話我們當時的這個法律當時就會有一點衝突你了解我的意思嗎"},{"start":16295.13,"end":16310.314,"text":"是 謝謝委員的這個提問有關這個部分因為是比較我們扣押的解約金的金額跟到最後其實如果不斷的帶電的話那個金額就會不一致我覺得這件事情應該要趕快競速的去釐清是 這個部分我們回去會再做一個研議跟這個問題的釐清 謝謝好 謝謝專委那我是不是請農業部部長"},{"start":16320.826,"end":16320.846,"text":"陳部長"},{"start":16351.067,"end":16362.682,"text":"后续这个经费我们后来有做什么要短中长期的规划原来的斑斑有限来的那个经费当我们停止以后我们就移走了我们经费就移走了"},{"start":16363.697,"end":16384.665,"text":"我知道移走了但是你們當時對外的說法是我們還是要針對於弱農的那個是整個弱農產業的升級的計畫還在還在那你們有說要做短中長期的規劃那到底規劃了什麼我們有一個完整的規劃就是我們在短期之內我們要先把寡產牛的支柱先做一個調控"},{"start":16385.665,"end":16395.368,"text":"讓他的生產效率變高然後去針對本身第二個部分所以短中長期的規劃都已經出來了這7.48億怎麼用都已經有規劃了不是這個7.48億是多少4年20.8億這是另外的經費多少對不起你再說清楚4年20.8億"},{"start":16414.735,"end":16421.276,"text":"20.8億是好都有規劃要怎麼用都有規劃了對我們有四年級的計畫在那邊執行好那我再問一件事情當時在2024到2027我們養牛的產業全面升級我們有個中程的規劃當時我看到你們的計畫書裡面是寫說我們希望農業部希望能夠達到生乳量的減量以利維持價格這個是當時的規劃對不對是"},{"start":16441.48,"end":16460.107,"text":"那現在的規劃的方向還是一樣嗎還是一樣好那我請問一件事情就是說有些弱能業者他們面臨現在台紐的協議零關稅這件事情為了要提升競爭力他們加入一些AI自動化的機器提高每天的產量那"},{"start":16462.848,"end":16479.934,"text":"如果你剛剛跟我講的就是說洛農目前減量還是我們的政策那目前洛農他們又透過AI系統希望增加牛乳量這個是不是互相衝突這個沒有互相衝突喔第一個就是我們把寡產牛就是說它本身"},{"start":16480.954,"end":16504.45,"text":"牛奶的生產效率比較低的我們把它淘汰然後一方面我們針對比較年輕的牛利用AI或其他的設備的改善讓它提升它的乳奶效率但是總體來講我們現在希望是牛奶產量大概48到49萬噸我們希望降到43萬噸才能夠達到一個比較好的平衡達到一定的價格嘛是那我再問部長齁好的價格是不是消費者"},{"start":16509.735,"end":16522.585,"text":"一定會買那也不一定嘛對不對重點是如何提高擺在架上如何讓國人看到國產的品質或包裝或行銷或透過我農業部的輔導我們有足夠的競爭力嘛"},{"start":16526.961,"end":16546.87,"text":"這才是重點嘛所以無論在你剛剛講的20億還是40億短中長期的規劃裡面我希望可以透過你這些預算看到福島落農我們東西本來國產的本來就比外面的好這才是重點嘛除了維持價格之外重點是如何讓我們產品有競爭力嘛"},{"start":16548.181,"end":16550.822,"text":"你同不同意我的說法價格當然很重要但是如何透過我們的輔導包裝行銷或我們提供足夠的資源或設備讓它更有競爭力"},{"start":16566.564,"end":16584.1,"text":"了解所以我剛才說了三難端我們有一定的方法更重要就是在消費端怎麼樣讓產品做市場區隔然後另外包括鮮乳的標章還有產交履歷對啊但是部長我要跟你講我自己是家庭主婦之一我也常常在架上買"},{"start":16585.717,"end":16605.696,"text":"我希望看到更多具體的成效去行銷這都是國產的國產一定比外面好因為國產的農業部做了哪些輔導環境各方面我們做了標章什麼樣的標章所以我們一定比這些好對不起但是我沒有看到所以我非常期待看到你這些預算當中"},{"start":16606.457,"end":16632.218,"text":"有這些具體的成效在輔導我們這些落農好我最後43秒部長我前一陣子我去考察了我們內湖的花卉市場我覺得台灣的花卉是全國全國非常重要也是台灣之光因為我們在國際上我們的花卉是有一定的競爭力那近期我知道我們近期我們都每一年都有撥一些預算在做輔導但是我們面對極端氣候"},{"start":16633.919,"end":16641.384,"text":"我覺得這些運送的過程當中無論從彰化無論從哪裡運送到台北的花卉市場也好或出了台灣到國際其他去參展也好我覺得相關的設備跟冷鏈的系統或面對現在極端氣候我們如何有更好的設備來去輔導他們我覺得是關鍵重要的所以我希望部長去多花更多的心思去關注這一塊"},{"start":16661.078,"end":16665.426,"text":"能力系統是不是要再加強 要做得更好我覺得都應該去做更專業的輔導或協助他們或編列預算去指導他們"},{"start":16671.038,"end":16694.254,"text":"我覺得同意特別是花卉的部分從產地不管是到北部的批發市場或到運銷的部分仍然是一個非常維持它的切花壽命或是盆花壽命的一個關鍵是無論是運送或在花卉市場都是這個部分我們在產地上面產業產地上面都有做適度的協助對我知道所以包括出了市場到國際去參展所以這個要拜託您編列相關的預算去更精進他們相關的設備跟輔導他們好不好"},{"start":16700.558,"end":16725.678,"text":"包括上飞机的那个战存箱是都要协助辅导好不好我非常期待今年也可以看到一些相关的预算的编列谢谢好谢谢现在请林诗明委员做询答林诗明委员林诗明委员不在现在请黄建豪委员做询答黄建豪委员黄建豪委员不在现在请吴秉瑞委员做询答吴秉瑞委员吴秉瑞委员不在现在请麦玉珍委员做询答"},{"start":16736.141,"end":16739.567,"text":"就希望有請農業部的陳部長部長委員好"},{"start":16747.81,"end":16765.875,"text":"部長好 請教一下我們5月份農業部是不是移工新制度上路名額從1萬2千名新增到2萬名 同時開放新的農量列型"},{"start":16766.835,"end":16773.88,"text":"也在就是供請數和合配率的放寬就由此事也是說軟解我們的農我們農業的缺工的問題啦但是問題在說要符合這個資格農民我們農業的團體需要先就是農量署各分署申請拿到資格認定函後呢才能在90天內向勞動部申請"},{"start":16797.015,"end":16799.797,"text":"就是聘用移工可是許多農產業別其實在有季節性的需求所以有一點差異這一來一往的話耗費很多的時間無法就是彌補的這樣子的需求的缺口上次部長質詢的時候說就是我們農業部審核的速度會盡量縮短"},{"start":16820.994,"end":16835.332,"text":"請教一下我們的部長目前就是新智商入後我們審核的案件有多少件還有說目前農業部內部的審核平均天數大約為多少因為我們現在這個我們都沒有看到一個規定"},{"start":16840.959,"end":16864.056,"text":"我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說我們也發現到就是說當我的移工的數量名額增加了然後申請人變多了那申請這邊會不會有塞車的部分那我們也瞭解就是說審查過程包括農業部的審查還包括勞動部的審查這兩個部分那這兩個部分其實我跟勞動部做了一個溝通協調"},{"start":16865.037,"end":16880.22,"text":"他們那邊是應該理論上是7加7天再加一個行政核定大概一個月左右那我們這邊有很多必須要實地查核的那我也要求我們農糧署或是相關的主管單位要盡速而不是"},{"start":16881.62,"end":16899.407,"text":"單子擠在一堆再去爬啦所以可以用個案的方式來就安排時間去查然後還有一個更重要的部分是很多申請者資料不齊全然後還要補件的這個東西過往都是用我們都用被動的我希望說其實應該讓"},{"start":16901.289,"end":16915.43,"text":"有意願申請的人他就一開始就知道他要提供什麼樣子的資料以避免說你為了補卷有沒有來來回回來來回造成太多次的這些往返這個部分都是我們在改進的一個空間"},{"start":16916.593,"end":16922.698,"text":"是所以我們就是因為我們農民有季節性的就是特殊的需求但是我們人力在這樣子的來來往往就會變成浪費很多時間但是剛才我們部長也有說我們要先有意願的輔導我們是有這樣的輔導的人員或者團隊嗎不然大家農民辛苦辛苦人家等著"},{"start":16943.114,"end":16946.516,"text":"到最後呢就是也沒辦法達成他們的需求就是農民需要的時候就沒辦法採收所以我剛才你有說我們也有提到部長在5月19的時候呢有跟說勞動部跨部會的討論但是呢我們現在還是沒有看到這樣討論的結果就是時間"},{"start":16969.768,"end":16977.771,"text":"網路也沒有看到資料也沒有看到所以呢我們希望說要有明確的時間更盡盡就是縮短這樣子的話才能有這樣子的進度還有掌握就是多少審查要涉及的修法是否就是明確的解決時間的問題的辦法這樣的話對我們農民真有幫助"},{"start":16992.735,"end":17015.523,"text":"這個部分希望是真正的明確的這個安才你說有跟他們真的協調但是我們今天沒看到不是我要跟委員報告我們當時間拉長的時候我們必須先釐清哪一個環節是塞車的我們從那個環節去解開那後來我們發現我們跟勞動部溝通了以後我們有跟他們有一些內部的會議我們發現說"},{"start":17017.604,"end":17034.89,"text":"勞動部那邊他也會承諾就是他們盡快在一個月之內審完我們這邊也目標也是一個月之內審完那現在可能要三個月所以要壓縮的時候看哪個環節是可以解開的我們是用這樣的方式而不是說我有一個新的會議決議說我要幾天因為那個決議說要幾天都沒有用實際上要怎麼樣去縮短"},{"start":17040.632,"end":17046.635,"text":"是所以我們就是說縮短的方法我們希望真的是有在就是說剛才你說嘛解決源頭就是要去輔導所以想要的去輔導我也希望說你說輔導誰來輔導因為這個是新的政策宣傳不夠還有說在我們的就是根據我們主計處做普查的時候110年的時候我們的國民我們農民"},{"start":17067.925,"end":17071.949,"text":"年齡已經高達六十七、八十四歲了啊你今天 你用講的 我們聽到了啊但是說沒聽到的人就不會了啦啊但是說 有聽到的 我們年紀 我們的長輩他要去網路要看也看不到了啊 這樣就變成了"},{"start":17088.484,"end":17090.566,"text":"達到這樣子的我們的農業的需求還有說我們的農民就是漁民他們的經營管理者也是年齡也達到就是64歲以上了顯然就是說我們的勞動力已經不足了但是我們要引進這個移工根據我們的監察院報告指出我們農委會"},{"start":17113.823,"end":17133.671,"text":"整體的政策 就是說就是邊做邊修沒有完全的 全盤的 妥善的統計您這邊的資料是在112年的資料嘛對 所以我們看到 因為我們現在網路沒有看到所以114年本身 其實我們針對各類的移工的人數從8000人 12000人 到20000人我們已經想辦法去調整 然後"},{"start":17138.913,"end":17163.595,"text":"歷次的委員特別是經濟委員會的委員都一直希望有特定的這些品項可以打開我們也陸續的檢討也做了一些開放這個開放絕對不是說開了一次就不調整了我們是滾動的檢討所以您剛才說這是一個新的制度對新的制度但是我們沒有看到你改變的地方它不是新的制度它是一個現有的制度不斷的去改進不斷的去精進的方式"},{"start":17165.096,"end":17169.399,"text":"來部長你說新進的部分我們是說這個不好意思就是我們的監察院你說好你說1110年但是我們現在112年6月份你開放的是額度就是1萬2就是"},{"start":17182.389,"end":17188.973,"text":"對 1.2萬人 但是現在在在我們13年 原額就說用完了所以我們的監法院也覺得說你用完我們是增加 但是你都沒有全盤的統計啦到目前為止我們也沒有看到如果你說110年你已經這個是舊的資料新的資料我們也沒有看到啊所以我們才在問你嘛如果我們看到我們就不會問所以我們希望"},{"start":17212.125,"end":17233.55,"text":"什麼樣的資料 你不能說我覺得掙扎 我覺得需要我就掙扎但是你們要全盤的統計真的是寬寬 不然你今天兩三個月你就放寬 等一下又補了不足了兩三個月你又要再放寬 這樣子都沒辦法一定會這樣子 因為農業的一些樣態他不斷的會去調整所以說我不是說這一次的調整我就不動了"},{"start":17241.492,"end":17261.399,"text":"員工2萬人也不一定會夠所以我們到了1萬7、1萬8的時候我們就會再來申請然後我們也會隨時讓各個地方的農民有一個管道知道說哪一些是值得再開放移工的部分那我們都會納入檢討如果需要的話我們就會再增加所以它是一個滾動的精進"},{"start":17262.947,"end":17267.27,"text":"私人你說是滾動為什麼我們監察院這邊就是說很多就是沒有達成到你們真正的去全盤調查所以才會去說希望你們真的是全盤調查如果是需要的時候我們再開放多一點還是怎麼樣但是你沒有的話變成是說你感覺就是需要"},{"start":17285.282,"end":17291.567,"text":"等一下又再開放所以沒有達到說很多人在等待的時候在申請的時候就等待不到又申請不到又在等你再開放這樣的話就是差一截了我們希望說你真正的去調查有資料有需求我們就是開放多一點或者怎麼樣就這樣達到我們農民的需求因為農民是跟我們在反映"},{"start":17311.144,"end":17338.735,"text":"你開放就是你覺得他們可能有申請的你覺得有需要但是還沒有即將申請的人他們不知道幫大家申請的時候哇 你就罵這申請的人就沒了所以我們希望是你真正的去調查全盤的去檢查這樣子現在產業很多的反應就是他希望移工但是他用了以後他又不管理他的居住太多人是這樣子的因為農業本身的這些季節性的部分"},{"start":17339.495,"end":17367.145,"text":"會有造成一些問題但是我們請了一個移工以後我們必須要負責他的管理那這個部分是現在農民比較沒辦法認同他覺得說我要的時候你就叫過來給我所以我們要請農會用一個外展的方式由農會來請然後各個農會轄區裡面的這些需要的用調度的方式來處理那這個就是我們配合農業的特色我們去處理這些季節性的缺工"},{"start":17370.066,"end":17395.537,"text":"好 我說說關鍵 因為時間我憨惜主席 最後一個 因為本來不想講這題 但是因為農業部長就講到我順便就講了雖然 所以在關於外展的部分在11年年底 移工失聯率就達到11.86所以呢 你外展 剛才你說的外展希望他們幫忙管理移工但是關外展的"},{"start":17396.858,"end":17400.639,"text":"逃跑率四連移工那麼多所以呢你的外長的管理還有制度還有所有的這些的話你講出問題但是你沒有解決問題所以我們希望今天的質詢的問題的話就是從農業缺工引進移工的制度不完善"},{"start":17415.485,"end":17420.088,"text":"還有就是非法移工雇用還有每個這些都是環環相扣但是目前我們農業部的制度無法及時補位這樣子的就是變成就是良善的政策但是就反而就是紙上談兵所以你自己都把問題提出來了但是你要解決不能說就是頭痛醫頭就是腳痛醫腳這樣的政策沒有達到"},{"start":17445.765,"end":17453.572,"text":"這樣子的效果所以我們開放但是倒是最後四年又最高所以我希望這些種種的問題希望你有個書面給我因為時間的關係書面給我完整一點讓我們才對農民就幫你協助來怎麼樣去達到這樣子的目標好 謝謝現在請賴市保委員做詢答"},{"start":17470.107,"end":17478.534,"text":"賴世保委員不在賴世保委員不在現在請何新淳委員做詢答何新淳委員何新淳委員不在現在請黃珊珊委員做詢答好謝謝主席我請部長陳部長"},{"start":17493.447,"end":17509.034,"text":"市部長好我想接下來7月9號就是對等關稅90天要到期了那現在應該是幾個密鼓在談判我想問問部長我上次在這邊問的是說你知不知道我們現在談判的進度然後有沒有什麼掌握"},{"start":17510.655,"end":17535.85,"text":"我只能說我們有參與談判的時候的討論那談判現在正在進行中有沒有什麼新的狀況或新的發展會不會像之前談判的過程中我想我不適合對外說明同意但是我要問的是你們都做好衝擊的準備了嗎我想以農業部的立場我們在談判的規劃跟跟討論的協調過程中我們一直堅持的"},{"start":17537.657,"end":17556.507,"text":"針對跟糧食安全有關的這些品項不能放水我們就一定要去捍衛它原來我們所堅持的東西不能放水尤其是食安尤其是對農民的衝擊要交換東西我們都知道但是安全是不可以放水的現在你們編列了180億主要是協助外銷對嗎特別條例"},{"start":17560.749,"end":17573.444,"text":"所以對內假設假如美國對我們要求跟英國一樣有一些美牛啊乙醇啊其他農產品的市場要大肆的開放或降低關稅那國內的市場你們有編預算的嗎"},{"start":17576.027,"end":17598.765,"text":"我們下一次180億是完全協助外銷是嗎不是 我們180億是當初在32%又降到10%的時候那有一部分是我們希望說它能夠持續的進銷外銷嘛但是有一部分可能訂單被中止它可能轉到內銷來所以有可能 我覺得說180億我還是問你一句你覺得夠嗎"},{"start":17601.206,"end":17627.396,"text":"臺灣民眾黨版本是要給你300億我知道但是以現在談判的不確定性來講我們也不期待說亂成這樣 還是希望啦就是說農業的部分是這次關稅裡面最重要的一環我覺得農業部要堅守原來的原則第二個盡量臺灣農民已經很辛苦了不應該再受到拿我們的農業市場去交換國家的其他的東西要換也要換個好價錢"},{"start":17630.057,"end":17646.823,"text":"那今天要講的是農保法農保法的部分2020年訂定以後目前為止有兩好像是雙軌嘛第一個是保險公司做一部分商業保險另外一塊是農漁會的保險農業保險部長你滿意嗎在109年覆蓋率是9.56%現在到114年3月大概是53.83%其實成長的算不錯你覺得現有的覆蓋率你滿意嗎"},{"start":17660.103,"end":17675.229,"text":"我覺得要看覆蓋率要分兩個階段政策型的要拉出來另外看53.7或者是八幾它本身是有涵蓋政策性的保險如果拉掉了以後是20.720.7其實以我們推五年我覺得整體來看20.7是可以達到階段性的目標但是20.7裡面你如果看細項其中餘產的只有2.7"},{"start":17689.375,"end":17715.277,"text":"對啊 這我才問說你滿意哪一塊哪一塊不滿意這個部分我就覺得說有必須有很大的必須要去精進的然後我們看了農業的這些保單裡面我也發現說有一些保單其實保的人數並不多那這個部分我們也把它撈出來看說要怎麼樣精進所以我的目標是我希望提升保單的品質而不是充保單的量"},{"start":17715.677,"end":17730.531,"text":"沒錯 重點是要好的保單啦也就是說我們雖然看起來有很多的商業保險它沒有保一些但是真正跟農民有保障的應該還是我們政府所農運會所保的這些所謂收入型偵測性的強制險"},{"start":17732.313,"end":17754.686,"text":"高粱水稻的基本收入險豬隻乳牛的死亡險但是商業保險針對天災或其他事故的保險顯然沒有辦法讓農民非常安心的去付這個保險費因為可能不一定會被理賠得到現在問題是如果照這樣的狀況我們去保了一個險又賠不到那我就不買了"},{"start":17755.646,"end":17778.362,"text":"現在問題是這裡吧所以設計出一個好的保險才是我覺得農業部或接下去不管是農漁會因為農漁會要他們設計商品我覺得有困難所以部長這部分怎麼解決我想我們後續會針對這些商業型的保單現在禮賠率大概47%所以很多人買了賠不到我就不買了"},{"start":17779.162,"end":17797.084,"text":"正常的理賠率應該是大概80%左右是所以當他理賠率表示他投保之後他的不理賠的機率很高所以我就不買所以我才會說一的會降低保費是或者是在裡面的這些品項裡面我覺得還是回到一個啦就是這個保單它的風險係數而且公司的"},{"start":17800.347,"end":17812.556,"text":"經濟價它的說哪天它的獲利可能性那第三個就是它為什麼會賣出這樣的東西因為賺不到錢我就不賣啊我乾脆弄個很高的門檻但買不到啊那更嚴重的就是"},{"start":17814.177,"end":17838.71,"text":"買到了但是賠不了一大堆另外條款一大堆所以重點還是那個風險的管控你看這樣看到國外的狀況大部分其實很多是由國家或是相關的農業協會他們去針對風險做好評估而且有國家的相關的數據讓保險公司可以設計出一個比較符合現實的保險所以我們現在是有農業金庫嘛"},{"start":17840.851,"end":17862.276,"text":"我們農業金庫只做銀行業務嘛要不要做點農業保險業務農業保險基金來處理是啊所以好的保險才是要設計的可能不能只是單靠商業保險部長同意嗎我同意而且我覺得不管什麼樣的保險我覺得資料庫的這些風險的資料庫的累積才是重點"},{"start":17862.836,"end":17878.493,"text":"因為這樣才能算出比較合時的狀況第二個我們政府有花這麼多的錢在補助那如果農業保險設計的好保費補的再高一點我們都不會反對重點是他要賠得到賠不到就是等於白買"},{"start":17879.728,"end":17899.738,"text":"所以部長我覺得這個部分可能是政府要扛起這個責任不是只是給錢了事我給錢讓你去買保險結果你買了保險還是賠不到要等於白搭我了解所以我已經要求我們的同仁從去年開始我們就每一個保單重新去評估它的沒錯"},{"start":17900.678,"end":17926.47,"text":"全面的重新檢視所以我說在今年年底之前我會全部盤出來如果沒人買的保單就是廢話啦就不用了啦好的保險讓他能夠有獲利然後農民保得到賠得了這個好的保險我們補再多保費我們大家都會支持這個是我的政策我不會衝他的保單的數量我會針對每一個保單是更多人來保保障農民保了錢得到賠"},{"start":17927.631,"end":17933.635,"text":"第二個不會血本無歸我們這才是保險的意義嘛所以馬來西亞對保險就不賠啊不賠啊40幾%而已這樣有點怪啦好嗎最後一個小問題就是我們現在農業保險我們大家都看到了就是"},{"start":17944.221,"end":17965.32,"text":"目前為止它在金融消費爭議目前把上次在農業保險修法的時候已經把它放在金保法的調處的機制但是農業保險還不能進入所謂的金融皮硬中心保護所以這個部分是不是要討論一下一個國家為什麼這麼多制度呢我們是不是找一下金管會上台"},{"start":17969.656,"end":17987.433,"text":"比如說農業保險目前是可以依金融消費者保護法進行調處但是還不到評議中心的評議然後農業信用部發生的金融消費糾紛也不屬於金融評議中心的評議這到底是怎麼回事呢"},{"start":17989.468,"end":18003.645,"text":"是 謝謝有人提問 有關這個部分因為有涉及到這個 目的是主管機關還是農業部這邊 那所以是農業部要去跟你們今晚會說我要加入金融評議中心是這樣嗎"},{"start":18005.591,"end":18025.622,"text":"因為這個 那我們就請部長吧 你是主管機關我的意思就是說 我跟委員說明就是如果有需要的話我們會委託那個做消費平益的部分去做調處 我就剛講農民拿不到保障 拿不到理賠 他要去找誰結果他要自己去告他 這很扯啊"},{"start":18028.263,"end":18048.468,"text":"第二個我剛剛講的現在金管會連融資租賃公司都要納入金保法結果我們真正在做金融消費的比如說農農漁會的信用部比如說農業保險不屬於金融消費者保護這很奇怪啊我給你一個月的時間你們去跟金管會協調如果可以的話農業部應該要把這兩個項目第一個農業保險跟"},{"start":18053.99,"end":18071.879,"text":"農業農漁會的信用部他們發生的金融消費爭議要納入金融消費者評議中心去做處理好我們來溝通看看怎麼樣是否則你們就是話外之明而且農民在裡面反而變成相對弱勢這不公平是好謝謝部長一個月好謝謝"},{"start":18073.046,"end":18079.456,"text":"好 謝謝我們現在請羅明財委員做詢答羅明財委員不在我們現在請羅廷輝委員做詢答羅廷輝委員不在"},{"start":18085.373,"end":18109.469,"text":"登记发言委员除不在场外其余经语发言完毕询答结束委员吕玉玲、林诗敏、罗明才、徐新英所提书面执行列入记录刊登公报书面执行和未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会本日议程询答完毕令折期继续审查谢谢大家现在散会"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}