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請問在場委員對於上次會議的議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處好 那我們議事錄確定現在我們介紹在場委員羅美玲委員陳俊宇委員接下來我們介紹列席的官員這個部長 顧立雄先生 謝謝顧部長副參謀總長執行官 洪志偉上將常務次長 楊基隆中將"},{"start":2125.714,"end":2153.414,"text":"全民防衛動員署署長李定忠中將督察總督察長張元勛中將參事石文龍中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將政治作戰局局長陳玉玲中將軍備局局長林文祥中將主計局局長謝其賢中將軍醫局醫務管理處處長王玉琦上校"},{"start":2155.425,"end":2179.918,"text":"戰略規劃司司長黃文綺中將資源規劃司司長藍靜婷女士法律事務司副司長陳子怡先生整合評估司司長苗慧芬女士國防採購事主任趙雅萍中將人事參謀次長是次長劉佩志中將情報參謀次長是次長謝日申中將"},{"start":2182.13,"end":2192.773,"text":"作戰及計畫參謀次長是次長連志偉中將後期參謀次長是次長李鳳翔中將通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩聯中將訓練參謀次長是次長郭俊德中將陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮中將空軍司令部參謀長李慶然中將"},{"start":2212.799,"end":2241.553,"text":"後備指揮部參謀長薛恩泉少將憲兵指揮部參謀長呂振芳少將陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤少將職東電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥少將軍事情報局執行長李永康少將電訊發展室執行長林振偉少校國防大學教育長李承忠少將國家中山科學研究院院長李士強中將"},{"start":2243.342,"end":2267.59,"text":"行政院主席總署專門委員張正輝先生謝謝那請醫事人員宣讀報告及討論事項報告事項二 邀請國防部報告海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行存效並被質詢三處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算提出書面報告後 使得動資等二十九案"},{"start":2268.47,"end":2284.14,"text":"第一案陸軍司令部第八幕第二節向下河嶺冒險訓練場預算凍結五百萬元案第二案海軍司令部第八幕第三節向下載人公務車輛籌補預算凍結三百萬元案第三案海軍司令部第八幕第四節向下國軍後備"},{"start":2286.081,"end":2295.31,"text":"後備部隊未請裝備整備第二階段預算凍結435萬元案第四案空軍司令部第13目向下設施及機械設備養護費預算凍結1793萬元案第五案軍醫局第1目向下"},{"start":2301.135,"end":2322.005,"text":"案件計資籌金預算凍結100萬元案第6案軍醫局第一幕向下物品預算凍結100萬元案第7案軍醫局第一幕向下一般事務費預算凍結150萬元案第8案軍醫局第三幕向下對特種基金資補助預算凍結300萬元案第9案陸軍司令部第三幕向下動員準備預算凍結500萬元案第10案陸軍司令部第8幕第二節向下城鎮站訓練場及"},{"start":2329.648,"end":2354.133,"text":"核生化訓練場新建工程先期規劃案預算凍結一百萬元案第十一案海軍司令部第一幕向下按日案件技資籌進預算凍結十五萬元案第十二案海軍司令部第一幕向下設施及機械設備養護費預算凍結七十萬元案第十三案海軍司令部第三幕向下教育行政預算凍結一百萬元案第十四案海軍司令部第八幕第四節向下發展海軍官校"},{"start":2357.033,"end":2377.565,"text":"基礎及專業經濟教育設備師預算凍結100萬元案第15案空軍司令部第三幕向下國令旅費預算凍結200萬元案第16案空軍司令部第五幕向下新式高校機性能科目軌跡噴煙裝置預算凍結500萬元案第17案全民防衛動員署第三幕向下其他業務駐軍預算凍結200萬元案第18案"},{"start":2381.314,"end":2383.88,"text":"陸軍司令部第八幕第二節向下莊訓部長安營區訓練場整建工程案預算凍結500萬元案"},{"start":2388.069,"end":2413.167,"text":"第十九案 陸軍司令部 第五目向下路通用行油罐車採購案預算凍結 五百萬元案 第二十案第二項決議 括弧一 預算凍結案 括弧密第二十一案 第二項決議 括弧三 預算凍結案 括弧密第二十二案 第二項決議 括弧四 預算凍結案 括弧密第二十三案 第二項決議 括弧五 預算凍結案 括弧密第二十四案 第二項決議"},{"start":2414.628,"end":2427.277,"text":"瓜湖6預算凍結案 瓜湖密第25案 第二項決議 瓜湖9預算凍結案 瓜湖密第26案 第二項決議 瓜湖13預算凍結案 瓜湖密第27案 第二項決議 瓜湖15預算凍結案 瓜湖密第28案 第二項決議 瓜湖22 預算凍結案 密第29案 第二項決議 瓜湖23預算凍結案 密"},{"start":2438.55,"end":2465.24,"text":"討論事項處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算凍結案一海軍司令部第一幕向下行政事務至一般事務費預算凍結百分之五十專案報告案二國防部主管預算凍結案等事實案強附表二第二案至第四十一案第二案陸軍司令部第五幕向下搬用機槍預算凍結六百萬元案第三案陸軍司令部第八幕第二節向下"},{"start":2466.58,"end":2491.523,"text":"戰甲車掩體新建工程第一階段預算凍結一千萬元案第四案陸軍司令部第八幕第二節向下清兵器靶場新建工程掀起規劃案預算凍結一百萬元案第五案海軍司令部第五幕向下多功能特種作戰訓練場預算凍結一千萬元案第六案海軍司令部第五幕向下訓練複合式標靶建案預算凍結一千萬元案"},{"start":2493.066,"end":2512.313,"text":"第七案 海軍司令部第五目向下 國軍重要防護營區 聚衛型警艦系統建置案 括五第二階段預算凍結10%案第八案 海軍司令部第五目向下 仁興市短程防空飛彈預算凍結1億元案第九案 空軍司令部第五目向下 興市高級教訓機預算凍結4億9千萬元案"},{"start":2516.594,"end":2539.425,"text":"第十案 空軍司令部第五幕向下 兼徵起無人機預算凍結10%案第十一案 空軍司令部第八幕第四節向下 國軍衛生部隊衛情裝備整備預算凍結10%案第十二案 直通電軍指揮部第四幕向下 軍事裝備及設施預算凍結1000萬元案第十三案 軍備局第十一幕向下"},{"start":2540.505,"end":2564.954,"text":"國防先進科技研究計畫預算凍結五千萬元案第十四案本部第二幕國防政策規劃與督導預算凍結一百萬元案第十五案本部第二幕向下獎補助費對國內團體支捐助案預算凍結一千三百五十萬元案第十六案陸軍司令部第三幕向下按日案件記資籌金預算凍結兩百萬元案第十七案陸軍司令部第四幕向下軍事裝備設施養護費預算凍結五千萬元案"},{"start":2567.755,"end":2577.323,"text":"第18案陸軍司令部第4幕向下軍事裝備設施養物費預算凍結5000萬元案第19案陸軍司令部第5幕向下戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結3500萬元案第20案陸軍司令部第5幕向下木貨型無人機預算凍結2000萬元案第21案陸軍司令部第5幕向下兼徵型無人機預算凍結1300萬元案"},{"start":2592.356,"end":2610.516,"text":"第22案陸軍司令部第8幕第二節向下裝訓部坑子口訓練場整建工程案預算凍結1000萬元案第23案空軍司令部第5幕向下F16AB型戰機性能提升預算凍結800萬元案第24案空軍司令部第5幕向下F16型"},{"start":2611.156,"end":2639.975,"text":"基远距精准武器筹购案预算冻结10%案第25案空军司令部第五目向下高高空无燃机系统预算冻结5亿元案第26案空军司令部第五目向下F16VBlock70型基作战支援夹枪及武器弹药筹购案预算冻结3000万元案第27案全民防卫动员署第五目向下新型步枪预算冻结1000万元案第28案全民防卫动员署第五目向下"},{"start":2641.916,"end":2662.423,"text":"國軍HF通信機換裝案預算凍結五萬三千元案第二十九案參謀本部第四目向下車輛及辦公器具養護費預算凍結百分之十案第三十案陸軍司令部第三目向下物品預算凍結七百萬元案第三十一案第二項決議括弧七預算凍結案密第三十二案"},{"start":2663.223,"end":2672.412,"text":"第二項決議關乎8預算凍結案命第33案第二項決議關乎11預算凍結案命第34案第二項決議關乎12預算凍結案命第35案第二項決議關乎14預算凍結案關乎命第36案第二項決議"},{"start":2681.681,"end":2684.522,"text":"第37案第二項決議第38案第二項決議第39案第二項決議第40案第二項決議第41案第二項決議宣讀完畢"},{"start":2704.448,"end":2727.684,"text":"好那我們先把報告事項跟討論事項都先念了那我們先處理這一個報告事項3這個是處理院會交付1億4年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算凍結案是這個是提出書面報告後使得凍之這邊有29案那現在書面報告都已經送交本會請問各位委員對於預算解凍有無異議"},{"start":2730.135,"end":2757.574,"text":"沒有異議那均同意動之提報院會那接下來等一下的這個要這個書面報告並經同意的我們就等到這個質詢完畢之後我們再來處理那本日會議邀請國防部就海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效做報告並被質詢同時也就這個預算的解凍案必須要同意後時得動之的其中包含專案報告一案來進行報告"},{"start":2759.316,"end":2777.878,"text":"請國防部顧部長上台報告各位委員先進今日大院安排專案報告及解凍議程,本部在此表達"},{"start":2779.642,"end":2799.747,"text":"誠摯謝意感謝各位委員長期關心國防事務並給予各項指導為適應兩岸局劇升溫的敵情威脅本部針對聯合反制、整體防空、海上截擊等作戰需求編列特別預算執行海風戰力提升計畫採購案並以民國一百一十一年至一百一十五年籌獲各式"},{"start":2801.047,"end":2827.064,"text":"精準飛彈、載台等裝備有效強化國軍整體防衛能量建構可視嚇阻戰力達成防衛固守、重層嚇阻之作戰需求以確保國家安全與區域和平穩定本部將全力督管中科院及各建安軍種缺一計畫目標籌建海空戰力提升計畫所需各式武器裝備並兼顧戰力提升與貫徹國防自主政策"},{"start":2831.047,"end":2835.293,"text":"本次辦理解凍計70案,其中討論事項41案、專案報告1案、書面報告40案新台幣22億6628萬元,針對委員所關切個案執行現況檢討與經濟能作為等項,均以決議指導辦理個案凍結"},{"start":2849.831,"end":2868.984,"text":"預算呢?軍委本部施政所必須請各位委員鼎力支持預算解凍BASE各項國防施政及建軍規劃順利推行接續由軍備局局長林文祥中將實施海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效專案報告及海軍參謀長邱俊榮中將實施海軍一般事務費凍結50%專案報告謝謝"},{"start":2887.236,"end":2910.391,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好 軍備局局長報告海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效專案報告一 前言為適應兩岸集聚升溫之敵情威脅快速提升國軍整體防衛能力本部編列特別預算籌獲海空戰力提升計畫各式武器系統並提升國軍整體戰力現緊就採購進度及執行成效 說明如後"},{"start":2911.572,"end":2923.361,"text":"計劃目標至111.7.115.1聯合反制整理防空及海上截擊等作戰需求邊內特別預算新台幣2369億5000萬餘元以八類十項專案籌建、安置反艦飛彈、高效能艦艇、海巡艦艇加裝戰時武器、萬艦飛彈無人攻擊載具、雄生飛彈、陸軍防空飛彈及野戰防空飛彈等武器系統三"},{"start":2939.432,"end":2957.342,"text":"113年執行成效本計劃113年獲付特別預算573億元規劃籌建各型飛彈載台軍事設施及通信指管裝備等四項執行成效分數如後一 專案執行進度飛彈籌購進度年度以一計劃產製各式飛彈並截角軍種擔任戰備任務執行進度100%載台籌購進度"},{"start":2965.646,"end":2968.212,"text":"年度以一計劃產製各式機動載台並節繳軍種擔任戰備任務執行進度百分之百"},{"start":2972.917,"end":2999.735,"text":"軍事設施策建進度年度一計畫完成各項軍事設施並移交軍種執行戰備任務執行進度82.97%其中陸軍航空系統陣地工程前因山坡地水土保持問題需配合農田水利署現康排驗作業核定方可辦理變更設計陣地工程施作限於114年3月28日完成驗收任務執行進度100%"},{"start":3002.176,"end":3014.546,"text":"通信指管裝備籌貨進度年度已依計劃產製各式通信指管裝備並交互海軍及海巡署應用執行進度百分之百二預算自用113年度貨物預算573億5975萬"},{"start":3019.19,"end":3023.154,"text":"5566元包含了113年分配預算489億6334萬6千元及112年接轉數83億9640萬9566113年滯用數563億餘元滯用率98.25%接轉數管制於本年度內滯用完畢 詳如效表1請參閱"},{"start":3044.676,"end":3048.72,"text":"三 試商成果113年度試商規劃348.1億元採購簽約325.3億元試商成效達93.5以執行採購試商計5107案參與的廠商計有1983家"},{"start":3062.375,"end":3072.322,"text":"跨足 機械 電子 營造 資通 造船 汽車 化學 光電等各產業產業衍生效益達650.6億元 增加就業人口17358人有效創造國防安全與擴大產業鏈經濟動能效益之雙引目標市場總計表 祥儒下表二 請參閱"},{"start":3085.131,"end":3105.44,"text":"四 強化履約及專案督管機制為確保各型武器系統與裝備確依計劃期程完成籌建並防篤違安及違法歧視本部督管作法如後一 嚴格落實利益迴避中科院目前列管利益迴避職務對象計3358人該院每日以系統針對構案得標廠商負責人董"},{"start":3111.903,"end":3129.24,"text":"董事、理事、監事等與列管的職務實施勾基比對截至113年12月底已查核了1094筆未發現有違反規定的情形要求該院持續勾基比對以落實利益迴避二"},{"start":3130.101,"end":3151.17,"text":"強化廠商查核機制本部108年部班國防科技工業合作廠商安全調查執行做法由偵探局保防安全處對中科院及涉密合約廠商參與國防安全事務前審酌專案實質內容以涉密程度完成安全查核以防範機敏資訊外洩三"},{"start":3154.291,"end":3181.592,"text":"嚴禁錄製品滲入要求政科院缺一113年不頒國軍採購禁用大陸地區香港澳門產品認定及履約驗收作業指導與採購文件明定禁止錄製錄製品開標前實施背景查核投標要求提供料件產地來源決標後加強製程的查核針對契約規範禁用錄製原料原件情形適合查驗與杜絕錄製品"},{"start":3184.374,"end":3192.459,"text":"四 專案督管機制 針對中科院各專案執行計畫節點軍總每月召開專案整合團隊會議及本部納編各業管聯參每兩個月召開審議作業整合團隊會議就專案的風險 工進及預算執行進度綿密管控並採定期不定期的查查集合"},{"start":3206.989,"end":3221.793,"text":"另具風險專案足及提報方式由軍備副部長每月召開會議管制確保專案執行無虞順利達成年度量產任務五、114年度執行規劃本計劃114年度貨戶特別預算474億3998萬4千元籌建雄風、天艦系統及天空三型等各型飛彈機動載台等各式裝備及軍事設施"},{"start":3235.857,"end":3261.569,"text":"針對海空戰力提升計畫各項專案須由本部依規劃期程督管建案軍種及中科院落實執行並滿足年度量產任務六節語本計劃依防衛固守、重層嚇阻軍事戰略指導與對短期程內籌建成熟效高及快速形成戰力之各式軍種揮彈與海軍高效能艦艇有效強化國軍整體"},{"start":3262.409,"end":3282.518,"text":"防衛能量建構可視嚇阻戰力感謝大院各委員指導有關海攻戰力提升計畫113年各項工作均於計畫期程執行本部入力按節點管制武器裝備獲得並且全案推動國內私商帶動國防產業發展升級逐步建構完整國防產業供應鏈報告完畢 敬請指導"},{"start":3294.249,"end":3322.165,"text":"主席先進跟各位委員大家早我是海軍參謀長報告行政書費凍結的狀況報告一前言海軍113年7月造成性騷擾個案經性評會調查機制合意給予必要行政懲處為審議期間單位位移規定完備保護被害人應有權益人有精進空間令通盤檢討分析性騷擾案件噪音為性評教育未增普及"},{"start":3322.805,"end":3331.873,"text":"各級督管機制未落實及法紀觀念未能升職等三項二、噪音檢討一、性平教育未增普及"},{"start":3332.952,"end":3354.68,"text":"就海軍歷年性騷擾案件太陽分析造成與長官與部署之間比例較高同儕間次之就噪音分析可歸納為性平教育為深入基層與內部管理不善所衍生各單位須排定性平生活座談以及專案講述等宣教課程為教材內容較為刻板"},{"start":3357.745,"end":3378.272,"text":"且未執行課後的檢核,透過測驗與湊驗的方式自流於形式,難達失效。而各級督管機制未落實,在考核方面,各級隊所屬負有督導與管理職責,依全程分層督管性平教育執行成效,應建立具體機制性的考核做法。"},{"start":3379.383,"end":3404.691,"text":"在執行面方面,現已建立性騷擾案件處理準據為相關幹部未依規定妥善將加害人隔離、被害人保護委員會遴選及利害關係人迴避等措施採取必要保密程序與落實法規觀念未能升值為防範性平安噪聲,須藉持恆不斷的法規宣教樹立正確性別相處與行為規範"},{"start":3407.632,"end":3413.46,"text":"違反後相關的罰則對個人職癌生涯的發展的影響以達二指的效果"},{"start":3415.131,"end":3444.64,"text":"各單位辦理軍人懲罰的案件依現行《陸海空懲罰法》一行為一法的辦理為法律未參納、肅行為之犯意及整體影響予以相對應的懲處的一個程度是113年8月7日總統公布之《陸海空懲罰法》以完備懲罰機制並修訂為合一評價的程度規劃在今年下半年予以施行三、精進作為依廣採多元教育"},{"start":3445.967,"end":3461.649,"text":"海軍會推動性貧工作小組,每季編組性貧業務督導成員,赴各單位實施教育服防及課後的檢核,並就直屬長官、個別官士兵與內部管理等三個面向進行考核。"},{"start":3462.844,"end":3478.767,"text":"在直屬長官部分,致重點於性平案件處理程序與法規,並於課後實施測驗,使其了解主觀職責、行為分際及所涉法則,以消除性別歧視,促進性別地位實質平等。"},{"start":3480.046,"end":3499.482,"text":"就個別官兵的含聘僱人員部分自重遠於性別相處的行為限制及懲處影響個人發展等以受替力之效在強化內部管理部分則由各基層單位主觀與管理面營造性別尊重的環境並則由上一級單位"},{"start":3500.763,"end":3524.287,"text":"督導管理自動典於領導統一與內部的院隊處理有效發掘單位潛藏的問題針對好發的太陽列入宣教聚焦於職務關係性騷擾防範令廣採多元的活化教育以簡易法規丁寧預案如何舉發的內涵發揮實效二長化督管機制"},{"start":3526.278,"end":3534.968,"text":"採定期營務營歸督檢或不定期督檢的方式赴损署部隊生活或辦公處所了解性平工作推動與常規執行的狀況協助發掘潛存問題"},{"start":3539.52,"end":3555.6,"text":"要求主觀強化管控作為,造成疑似性平安時及啟動調查機制,落實加害人隔離、被害人保護或證人保密等作為,並就上一級督管的責任列入考核。3."},{"start":3555.6,"end":3556.381,"text":"適衡法規教育"},{"start":3557.582,"end":3572.947,"text":"針對部隊特性依職場性平工作法,所列單位負責人的責任,一般或權勢性騷擾,經證定後,由詐案單位所在縣市政府予以發言等太樣,將納入法紀課程實施宣教。"},{"start":3574.495,"end":3579.26,"text":"廣布參據新修正的陸來空軍懲罰法第55條數個違紀行為合一評價的規定以研修法令納入綜合懲處的一個評定將強化宣教並落實辦理懲處"},{"start":3588.973,"end":3607.368,"text":"然未健全性平的一個處理的機制,經組成性騷擾申訴會進行調查成立之後,透由懲罰評議會的機制,按其身份異別、違犯態樣及騷擾的一個危害的程度,審認之後施予適當的懲處,確保處置合宜,並兼顧當事人救濟的程序。"},{"start":3612.532,"end":3638.82,"text":"是 結語 依大院對新操導案件指導海軍將廣採多元教育強化多管機制及持恆法紀教育等作為避免內岸再生另考量行政事務費向下預算需維持海軍所屬400多個單位基本運作官兵生活設施改善及災害防救支出等任務所需預算見其大院准以解凍 逼力各項工作順利推動報告完畢 敬請指導"},{"start":3644.363,"end":3661.259,"text":"好那我們現在開始詢答那今天呢我們是三四一次會那理由是因為當然第一個我國人都很關心一直以來的這個特別預算今年也有特別預算的提出所以針對之前11年到115年的這一個海空戰力提升計畫的這個相關的這個預算當然是"},{"start":3664.142,"end":3680.907,"text":"我覺得定期來這邊做一個檢核對於我們之後要去審酌未來的這個特別預算應該很有幫助但更重要的事情就是因為我們這個解凍案到現在還是沒有辦法解凍完那裡面有其中一項是這個凍結50%的那因為它不是書面報告並進同意它是專案報告並進同意所以大家應該有聽到就是說專門針對這個性平相關的專案報告"},{"start":3692.41,"end":3717.082,"text":"所以我們三四一次會議 最後還要處理討論事項最後書面同意 書面報告要同意時還有40個案件所以事情比較多所以本會委員今天6加2分鐘 非本會委員5分鐘10點半發言登記截止如果有臨時提案請於10點半前提出 11點左右處理我們現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":3727.153,"end":3729.755,"text":"謝謝主席,有請顧部長有請顧部長是,羅委員好部長好,部長,繼這個今年的三月之後呢中國在今年的六月初呢,又電民通緝我國之通電軍指揮部二十名的成員呢來做這個發布宣傳的這個通告"},{"start":3752.93,"end":3762.253,"text":"然後呢指控他們涉嫌從事對中國軍政系統的這個網路的攻擊而且呢每一個人是以萬元人民幣的獻賞來鼓勵這個民眾來做這個舉報而且呢還公布了我們這20位成員的這個大頭照啦姓名還有這個身份證字我想請問部長我們國防部有沒有掌握"},{"start":3776.698,"end":3780.803,"text":"這些資訊畢竟還是屬於個資那中國是如何得知我們這20位資通電軍的這個成員的這個資料請問部長我們是不是請中間先"},{"start":3792.868,"end":3817.655,"text":"跟您報告那這些資料都是從網路上一些舊的這些網路資料來拼湊而來拼湊那所謂拼湊是這20位成員的姓名大頭照跟身份證字號他們是一致的嗎這資料都是對的嗎所謂拼湊是什麼意思就是這些人有錯誤嗎"},{"start":3819.489,"end":3842.408,"text":"這些目前查是舊的資料這是舊的資料那這些成員還在我們執行部嗎?有三分之二人員都已經退伍了所以三分之二已經退伍了其實有些成員還在我們資通電軍指揮部裡面對,少部分而已那少部分這些成員他公布的資訊是對的嗎?"},{"start":3843.829,"end":3870.181,"text":"都是舊的資料舊的資料對OK好我想請教接下來就是我想請教的就是我們自通電軍我們依照國家情報工作法第三條第二項規定已經是同意我國情報的機關其實應該要接受嚴格安全的查核跟保密的規範可是我剛剛聽您在講說其實這是舊的資料在網路上可以撈得到的資料所以我們對這些成員是完全沒有明確的身份保護機制嗎"},{"start":3871.441,"end":3891.132,"text":"包委員 這個部分就是陳副委員所說的就是有適用對象 就是在勤工法適用對象那另外一個就是既有的這些做法 針對身份的這些保護的這些機制和措施都有規範那所以會保障這些人員相關的權益和安全權益跟安全 那身份我們沒有做到保護嗎"},{"start":3892.213,"end":3913.499,"text":"我們跟委員報告我們現在就是要採取相關的一些保護措施所以會強化社會隱匿跟掩護的相關的措施所以之前是沒有的 之前在網路上就可以撈到他們的資料所以現在我們才開始要研議 比如說建立這個化民化的制度啦或者是他們的生活安全維護 現在才要開始的意思嗎 部長"},{"start":3914.404,"end":3938.829,"text":"我們應該在這個月就會來實行這個月才要實行所以之前其實雖然說資通電軍已經是納入這個國家情報工作法裡面適用的這個對象可是一直以來我們都沒有在做這方面的保護措施現在才要做我想我們繼續就是說"},{"start":3940.856,"end":3962.094,"text":"一些相關在網路資料上面的一些他會收羅那我們也了解這個友情工法的一個適用所以我們現在已經採取了相關的這些做法我們一定會來強化身份隱匿跟掩護的相關措施就是做一個補救的措施就對了所以之前完全沒有做為什麼呢"},{"start":3964.336,"end":3971.485,"text":"為什麼我們都已經納入勤工法這麼多年為什麼之前都沒有再做現在問題發生了才來做呢"},{"start":3976.721,"end":3992.608,"text":"那這個部分是他在個人臉書的一些資訊那這個部分都已經在從去年的時候都已經都移除了所以就剛跟我們報告這是舊的資料"},{"start":3995.709,"end":4022.058,"text":"OK好那當然剛剛有提到就是說我們有些成員目前還是在我們志通電軍的指揮部裡面那像這些成員的話我們對他們目前當然他一定會覺得這個安全受到這個疑慮嘛那我們如何去做保護呢因為畢竟他們有些人都還是在在這個我們指揮部裡面目前的保護措施目前能做到怎樣的保護措施"},{"start":4023.503,"end":4050.071,"text":"我想剛剛已經提過了因為他現在相關的這些資料的揭露其實是過去的那個網站上面的一個資料所以現在網站上可是畢竟他還是掌握了部分的成員啊對不對有些已經退了剛剛說有些已經退可是有些都還在我們指揮部裡面還沒退啊還沒退的這些成員呢我們現階段如何保護出國我們有沒有保護到他的人身的安全他的家屬有沒有這個安全的疑慮這部分呢"},{"start":4051.72,"end":4064.132,"text":"我們現在應該會採取一些別名的措施,還有內部管控這些相關的作為,以勤工法的相關規定來進行加以保護。"},{"start":4065.762,"end":4088.213,"text":"這個部分我想應該還是要努力來做這個補救當然他現在發布這些資訊我想應該都是發動資訊戰跟心理戰的一部分那像習近平在這個中共二十大報告裡面他有提出研究掌握信息化智能化戰爭特點規律講的其實就是戰爭的形態其實已經加速向這個資訊化跟智能化來做這個轉變"},{"start":4089.714,"end":4116.869,"text":"那像之前國安局他都已經有提到了共軍他是針對台灣的基礎設施網路進行滲透那意圖呢當然需要奪取這個控制權那隨著這個AI的技術的這個運用越來越成熟當然我想未來中共用這個AI工具生成跟散發這個假資訊是會越來越嚴重那國安局之前也有示警說台灣政府在2024年每一天我們遭受到這個駭客的這工具是高達兩百四十餘萬次"},{"start":4118.69,"end":4136.979,"text":"幾乎都是中共的晚軍所為我們賴清德總統之前有宣示要提升台灣的軍費達GDP的3%以上所以我想請問一下我們國防部針對我們的資訊安全這部分我們會不會投入更多的資源來做升級目前我們有怎麼樣的一個規劃"},{"start":4138.6,"end":4153.825,"text":"我想我們一直不斷的在強化我們的這個資訊安全的環境那現在包括這一次有提出的那個特別條例裡面那麼我記得應該相關有關涉及資訊的部分應該有600多億總共700億,總共700億左右700億?對"},{"start":4163.948,"end":4188.536,"text":"有關於這個特別條例裡面其實有我們有700億的這個預算準備出來做這個提升這個資訊有關資訊的安全,是這個部分嗎?因為它涉及到一些這個自動作業環境的韌性設備效能的提升,還有指管系統的韌性跟治安的防護的擴充那當然還有一些共同圖像的一個潛能力"},{"start":4189.136,"end":4207.516,"text":"然後作戰區的一些同時線基礎設備的提升,然後還有網傳作業的各項設備的一個補充我想這個案子對於我們治安的韌性的提升是有相當大的幫助,還請各位能夠支持放在我們這一次"},{"start":4209.957,"end":4232.682,"text":"這個韌性的一個國土安全韌性對是OK 好 謝謝部長因為我想這個資訊作戰呢就是我們國土防衛的這個第一線我想國防部呢對這個部分應該要提出更多具體的這個做法我想資訊安全不應該是要成為這個不應該成為這個防線最脆弱的這個破口我想這部分應該大家要來做一個努力OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝薛薇"},{"start":4236.754,"end":4241.197,"text":"謝謝羅委員 部長請回接下來有請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席 有請顧部長有請部長"},{"start":4259.568,"end":4288.187,"text":"部長早部長有關我們這個海空戰力提升計畫採購的特別預算從111年到115年我們總共在這五年間編列了2369億左右的預算那要依註在可快速量產的各式武器裝備也可以落實我們這個國防自主的政策而在這個特別預算的依註之下我們中科院產人和專業人員"},{"start":4290.288,"end":4315.134,"text":"這個部分都已經在擴充當中那也在建構完整的一個國防產業的一個供應鏈但是這個特別預算到明年他就會退場那如果後續沒有其他的案子銜接上來我們好不容易這個擴展的這個量能恐怕又會消散那在此我想請教部長就是國防部後續不論透過公務預算或是特別預算在"},{"start":4316.134,"end":4336.757,"text":"委治案的規劃上有沒有相應比例的一個編列,來延續這些產能和人力?有的,那因為現在我們有會納入我們的一個特別預算案裡面,那當然也有我想這個部分是不是由站櫃司來做一個說明好了"},{"start":4337.226,"end":4345.317,"text":"委員好,我是三貴市市長,向委員報告,海空戰力提升裡面我們所採購的精準彈藥,後續年度我們都會編列訊號,相關的需求,"},{"start":4348.342,"end":4373.772,"text":"那針對中科院未來發展更符合我們國軍防衛作戰的這些品項那我們也會依據敵情威脅的狀況來編列未來可能請中科院繼續去產製的這些項目所以中科院擴產的這些能量跟人才未來還是會持續的運用它是不會受到這個影響會持續延續下去對不會因為我們特別預算結束就沒了不會"},{"start":4376.096,"end":4393.912,"text":"我想再請教部長下禮拜在伊蘭蘇澳的海域我們將舉行無人艇的公開展示活動除了要延續發展國造無人載具的政策也包括中科院去年啟動快騎專案"},{"start":4395.854,"end":4422.604,"text":"的這個科研部分那部長先前也提到兩棲的這個徵收大隊將率先增編無人艇的這個專責部隊接下來我們國軍針對這個無人艇的運用我們這個需求是否都有按照我們原先的這個規劃提出相關的數量那採購案會編列在明年度的這個供應預算中嗎"},{"start":4425.802,"end":4438.513,"text":"我們希望無人品的部分如果能夠盡快通過測評的話,我們會想辦法編列在特別預算案裡面下半年度下半年度,那就可以執行了"},{"start":4439.717,"end":4454.433,"text":"我們期望能夠編入這個特別預算案我相信這個吳征廷對於我們守護的這個海域非常重要那我這部分要請國防部海軍這邊還是相關單位應該這個優先來重視那我們"},{"start":4459.451,"end":4480.988,"text":"最近也看到國安部為了讓這個後備組織跟幕僚機制能夠事權統一並且要建構後備動員合一的這個機制在今年的2月1號將編配的這個部分從陸軍兩年多的這個後備指揮部再回到這個權動署的管轄"},{"start":4483.05,"end":4506.784,"text":"最近有傳聞說我們國防部規劃後備旅明年將再編回陸軍以達到地面部隊事權統一的一個指揮那我想請教部長目前後備體制的這個評估是否有在這個移編後備旅的一個規劃那那個後備旅編載這個全動署和編載這個陸軍對於國軍的整體戰力會有什麼樣的影響和差別"},{"start":4513.477,"end":4540.85,"text":"跟委員報告幾點,第一點就是說國防部依照黨章編訓的原則跟強化全民國防兵力結構調整的方案,我們現在正在進行規劃規劃整個的這個兵力結構調整方案,其實這個相關的兵力結構調整方案的弧度不會只限於剛剛委員所提到的後備的部分,是整體的海控路等等還有其他包括"},{"start":4542.491,"end":4559.199,"text":"這些相關的,包括自動電軍也好,還有甚至這個後備部隊也好那所以相關的這個部分,因為還在規劃當中,我想涉及機密,我們就不立意公開不過可能第二點跟委員說明就是說這個權重署下轄的這個後備指揮部的這個部分,我們認為"},{"start":4569.966,"end":4577.32,"text":"後備組織跟這個權動署的這個部分要來予以整合因為他整合要"},{"start":4578.536,"end":4604.097,"text":"要來負責整個國防軍事動員的這個政策然後還有各跨部會的協調整合所以後備指揮部隸屬於權動署之後我們認為他們要全新,權動署加後備指揮部要全新貫徹這個全民防衛動員的事項然後有關於動員召集還有留守業務等等的這個都在我們現在正在整體規劃的範圍之內"},{"start":4606.059,"end":4634.727,"text":"那另外我們2023年開始實施這個女性後備軍人的這個志願教召那國防部年初有公布114年相關的這個作業規定來看將會由480人增加到590人那截至目前來看今年志願參加的這個情形是否踴躍那近三年擴大辦理女性官兵投入召集的這個訓練對於我們後備戰力的提升有何成效"},{"start":4636.008,"end":4654.05,"text":"我想我並不感到滿意有關那個志願的女性志願教召的部分那我們現在著重的政策的重點是在將志願役的官士兵全部納入後備教召的邊關那這個要進行修法我們希望根本之道是在這個地方也就是說"},{"start":4655.21,"end":4671.622,"text":"國家栽培這些自願意的女性的官兵我們還是希望納入後備教召屬於納入動員的一環這樣子因為他們都表現得也都非常的好部長您在去年上任之後兩個禮拜有推動一個叫"},{"start":4673.163,"end":4699.979,"text":"這個國軍人員出國業務作業規定的這個修正那要新增自助旅遊的相關規定鬆綁長久以來這個軍人出國自由行的限制當初我們初估有多達18萬人會受惠獲得了這個廣泛的好評那實施已經滿一周年那在這一年我們這個官兵申請出國自助旅遊的這個人次相較救治團體旅遊來看"},{"start":4701.9,"end":4716.808,"text":"有沒有顯著的增加另外部長認為在官兵出國自由行的這個作業上是否還有能夠改進的一個地方並且能夠兼顧安全也讓國軍在安排休假時能夠更加的便利"},{"start":4718.729,"end":4742.72,"text":"那天參加交通部的那個有關官民優先登記之後,後來有請人士做個統計看起來應該是說我們去年6月5號開放以後,這個自助旅遊的人數已經達到2萬多人然後2萬7千多,團體旅遊大概1萬6千多所以就要去年同期增加到1萬6千多人,所以這個"},{"start":4744.881,"end":4748.007,"text":"部分看起來應該是有相當人數的增加"},{"start":4749.912,"end":4774.526,"text":"好那我們也就剛剛陳儒這個部長您說的跟交通部也有提出一個六家國籍航空的部分軍人優先登機的禮遇那這項政策具有相當正面的意涵不但可以提升這個官兵休假的便利也是對於我們國軍的支持和尊重那出國的時候因為我們目前"},{"start":4776.199,"end":4804.071,"text":"這個要求可能是要佩戴這個軍人身份證那軍人身份證如果離隱之後代出可能會有相對的風險那我們在這個軍人身份證方面有沒有其他的變通的一個證明文件可以提供給我們這個休假的這個我們目前還是以軍人身份證的查驗為主因為到了這個因為他是到那個登機的那一刻所以我們還是以軍人身份證為主那我們現在已經配合"},{"start":4804.764,"end":4830.14,"text":"修正的那個身份證管理要點跟那個出口作業出口業務作業規定就刪除了不可以攜帶身份證的這個相關的規定是因為我跟委員報告就是說以前說出國不可以帶身份證那說怕遺失或如何那事實上你在國內也可能會遺失所以我認為這樣的一個政策上面"},{"start":4831.86,"end":4850.768,"text":"來最主要當然是說這樣的措施來形塑軍人的榮譽感那麼我想身份證這個部分上面沒有任何機敏的資料然後攜帶我想應該是還好好因為這也是擔心啦擔心他身份證那個軍人身份證如果錯過如果他會掉的話那他再"},{"start":4851.949,"end":4866.863,"text":"這個任何地方都會掉所以我覺得會不會掉我們當然會希望他們妥善保管但是任何的身份證件資料他只要有拿著他當然在任何地方都會掉另外部長我們這個"},{"start":4869.545,"end":4885.968,"text":"公布的這個禮遇措施沒有包含這個軍人眷屬那這個部分是不是我們也可以研擬看看對於這個出國旅遊的這個軍事官他的眷屬未來隨行的話是不是也可以納入相關的這個優惠的一個"},{"start":4888.19,"end":4901.879,"text":"我想這個部分還該再跟交通部再商議一下因為我們比較其他國家像美國的話他大概是說有一名的眷屬可以帶一名"},{"start":4904.321,"end":4932.791,"text":"所以我想我們再跟這個交通部再來協商看看那有關這個軍人眷屬的部分要如何來實施好那這部分就請部長跟我們相關同仁可以盡速的會同這個相關部會讓相關優惠的措施更加的完備達到我們禮遇國軍的一個目標也期待接下來我們推出更多有感的進軍政策給予我們國軍最大的支持"},{"start":4933.191,"end":4951.204,"text":"好 謝謝部長是 謝謝委員支持好 謝謝軍委員 部長請回接下來我們有請馬文君委員上台質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請部長有請部長"},{"start":4959.315,"end":4962.839,"text":"部長好 部長我們今天針對有一些凍結的案子要解凍不過我們有幾個案子提出來跟部長探討一下因為今天海軍有特別就性騷擾申訴案件處置還有他精進作為來做一個報告"},{"start":4979.696,"end":4986.22,"text":"可是我想這個也答應要今天解凍不過昨天國防部卻傳出性騷擾的案件國防部監管國防性品業務的資源司人力資源處長遭投訴多次在公開的場合用歧視性的或者甚至性字眼辱罵女性下屬"},{"start":5000.687,"end":5003.849,"text":"這個也造成很多人的深情不適部長這個國軍性騷擾事件成績越來越高因為過去我們看到所有發生的這些性平事件那去年媒體也有披露"},{"start":5016.075,"end":5019.498,"text":"就監察院在111年的機敏調查報告裡面他特別提到他認為國軍性騷擾存在的比較大的問題是因為他的權力不對等還有他的黑數還有他的申訴機制以及保護措施不被信任宣導以及督導偏重刑事營區環境不安全等等的問題那就這些問題我們現在發現"},{"start":5042.118,"end":5063.053,"text":"雖然今天海軍做了一個精進處置作為可是國防部監管國防性品業務的主官自己就是性品事件的加害者那如果說今天要處理這樣子的一個解凍案子部長你覺得適合嗎我們那個成立的委員會都有外部委員"},{"start":5064.572,"end":5068.514,"text":"對 外部委員 我們是按照相關的規定來成立這個部長我們知道我們知道我們都有成立相關的這些外部委員也好或者相關的機制可是我們剛剛提到就是說為什麼在國防部國軍裡面他會有比較讓大家覺得比較擔心的問題就是剛剛提到的那些其實這些根本的因素如果不解決其實像我們剛剛提到的他的成績越來越高甚至"},{"start":5092.984,"end":5117.198,"text":"你自己本身都已經是這個性平的事件的一個主要的主觀可是他成為加害者的時候那他怎麼有辦法公平這是我們現在要特別提醒國防部的今天雖然這個案子解凍可是他持續在發生當中而且才昨天部長也震怒所以我相信其實你認為這個事情還是可以應該要有更精進的一個做法"},{"start":5121.661,"end":5149.671,"text":"不是只有這些委員而已是,我想剛剛海軍也提出相關軍事重點這個應該不是只有海軍,應該是三軍都要來做現在就是說我們也立即採取一個隔離跟保護的措施也就是將被申訴人就立即調離的縣職然後到陸軍當任這個委員那也對這個受害人加以保護那我們同時成立了一個具有部外委員的一個"},{"start":5150.679,"end":5154.804,"text":"客觀公正的一個委員會來進行調查部長我知道我說這個可能是形式上的啦因為剛剛提到就是說他的因為如果說我們沒有去做根本的改變他很難不再發生這個才是我們要去提醒國防部的主要的重點這個不"},{"start":5169.679,"end":5182.066,"text":"這個請部長再去做一個更全面性的或者像黑素今天如果不是多名女性一起那這個一定不是昨天才發生或前天才發生嘛它應該是已經很長的一段時間那為什麼到後來大家才敢很多人的時候才敢表示出來這一個問題在哪裡請部長再去就這個根本的原因去做更好更深入的一個改善好不好是那另外"},{"start":5197.754,"end":5200.176,"text":"一個案子就用剛剛我們聽到在報告的時候也聽到有一些委員有特別都提到說我們對於訓場這個預算的一個凍結可是我們發現在"},{"start":5215.073,"end":5228.98,"text":"桃園高鐵營造廠一口氣把承攬石案工程停工他資金缺口大概20億引發市場的這個嘩然這個也是老字號的一個營造廠那這家營造廠他停工的項目裡面有兩項是關於國軍的工程部長您知道嗎"},{"start":5235.388,"end":5240.712,"text":"我想這是不是先請陸軍來做一個沒有關係 是不是有這樣的事情有有時間的關係嗎我們在凍結長安訓場的這個預算的時候我們也希望有一些是新的委員可是也有舊的委員不要隨便扣帽子剛開始我們去凍結這一筆預算的時候是因為長安營區它是學校"},{"start":5260.808,"end":5263.069,"text":"它是戰車基礎訓練尤其是我們M1A2T的一個基本駕駛訓練的一個場域對不對它本來應該在112年就應該要完成可是已經拖到114年如果再加上今天這個廠商又有"},{"start":5280.454,"end":5288.201,"text":"財務缺口的時候我想又要演了到明年可能都還來不及本來已經要演明年了嘛這是我們凍結的原因而且它比較離譜的是它全案的工作項目本來主要是戰車射擊靶場還有戰車的駕駛訓練場是這兩個主要項目總共四億五千萬可是我們在"},{"start":5303.155,"end":5306.617,"text":"整個執行的過程當中卻把這個重要的部分把它拿掉很多拿去做變更還有做水土保持工程而讓我們這個訓練的這個項目其實它沒有辦法完成而且要放在第二階段就另外在這邊預算在做這是我們凍結的原因請清楚的告訴我們所有的國人而不要用那種煽動性的或者誤導性的這是我們凍結的原因那今天長安營區要拿出來解凍"},{"start":5333.275,"end":5336.399,"text":"結果昨天發生這樣的問題它是不是會造成我們後續的整個執行的影響會不會包委員容我向您報告第一個我們今天已經召集了這個同胞商來做一個研討那"},{"start":5348.012,"end":5372.178,"text":"它後續是否有繼續承攬的能力那另外一個它有共同的承攬廠商也有分別有四家跟一家那我們也在持續的掌握承攬廠商它是否有接續這個營造能力我們都在持續的掌握當中那如果真的它無法遂行的話沒關係細節你們自己去做處置像這樣子這樣今天可以解凍嗎"},{"start":5373.653,"end":5391.674,"text":"包委員因為他目前這個你連所有的協商都還在進度超前進度超前這個好意思在這裡講嗎你本來112年要完成你把它延到115年而且把所有重要工項拿掉你可以說他進度超前"},{"start":5392.014,"end":5398.981,"text":"我做個比喻如果說如果說今天我們真的跟他解約的話我們要去跟他做你要怎麼做沒關係以我們國軍的利益為考量這個這個要怎麼樣的處置作為你們自己去判斷我現在講的是當我們在凍結預算的時候一定有他的原因和理由今天我們剛要解凍的時候他又發生另外一個"},{"start":5413.554,"end":5423.046,"text":"其他的因素而且會造成我們MYA2你們說這個是非常重要的這個要做我們基礎訓練駕駛訓練他如果沒有地方訓練他以後開出去我們動不動就撞到民車或撞到民人那會造成什麼樣的影響這是我們凍結的原因所以請"},{"start":5432.157,"end":5450.613,"text":"務實的去解決我們凍結的一個根本的一個問題所在而不是拿來作為一些政治工坊或者像一些在尤其現在大家動不動就大罷免把我們凍山預算全部都拿來說嘴"},{"start":5452.014,"end":5461.62,"text":"我們每一筆動三我們一定都有原因你現在我剛剛隨便舉兩個理由你們全部都沒有繼續做好而且才剛剛解凍又有新的事情發生這樣可以讓大家相信嗎這是我們今天要特別提出來的那今天借用一點時間要請部長可以去深刻的再去考量就是我們軍人家心的部分那這兩天其實引起非常大的就是討論"},{"start":5481.975,"end":5482.082,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":5482.628,"end":5507.352,"text":"今天行政院的立場不管他是怎麼樣可是我們在這裡請部長你一定要站在國軍弟兄的立場去想因為昨天聽說所有的只要可以接觸到訊息可以看到電視螢幕或者可以看到其他的訊息來源的時候大家都在關注尤其我們國軍官兵其實全部都在關注這個案子會不會過當過了以後其實有非常多的歡呼聲"},{"start":5512.293,"end":5515.634,"text":"今天為什麼我們覺得他們是值得的是因為我們現在讓他們不管在演訓各方面其實他們的強度都越來越高今天如果我們在GDP已經要提升到3或3%以上動輒都有幾千億的一個增加我們買太多的武器裝備如果沒有精良的這些人力其實是沒有用的"},{"start":5536.383,"end":5539.546,"text":"如果看到他們聽這個訊息這個法一通過的時候大家那種歡呼其實這就是戰力的提升因為只有讓他們覺得我是值得的他們才會願意犧牲或者保家衛國才不是口號所以這個部分我們請部長您的看法"},{"start":5555.802,"end":5559.944,"text":"不要去配合行政院因為聽說國防部昨天也發聲明要配合復議或者要釋憲這個部長您的看法怎麼樣是不是可以讓大家知道我想我剛剛在會前接受記者訪問的時候已經說明了國進當然辛苦應該適度增加這個待遇但事實上我們在今年四月已經提升了志願役跟這個"},{"start":5582.434,"end":5603.269,"text":"戰鬥部隊的加急,網路戰加急也在6月1號提出,我們事實上要很多很多種的加急所以整個國軍練部加急的這個橫頻性我們必須是要考量的部長,我提醒一點另外一點當然就是還是要說明一下,就是說立法所提的立法案如果大幅增加稅出的話還是要懇請立法院能夠徵詢,請這個意見"},{"start":5605.31,"end":5615.134,"text":"好 那我提供兩個看法第一個就是說我們4月1號通過的這些加急其實它的加急是部分而且會造成有些偏頗就是你的關節越高有些你是領越少那有點像懲罰性的因為你到連急可是引急會受它的影響是比較大"},{"start":5624.918,"end":5643.979,"text":"那另外一個就是像他預算大幅支出預算大幅支出不是在軍人加薪的部分因為他大概增加是200或300億這個可能還要再去細算可是我們在國防支出的增加是高達三五千億這個對"},{"start":5646.241,"end":5667.727,"text":"整個預算來說它增加的幅度不是最大的可是它對我們戰力的提升卻有非常大的幫助這一點我們請部長可以因為您是國軍的大家長今天您的所作所為一定對他們會造成深刻的影響如果我們去把他們的福利拿掉或者跟他們站在不一樣的對立面的時候"},{"start":5668.507,"end":5674.39,"text":"其實它可能也會影響大大的影響他們的決心跟戰力這一點我想兩三百億對於我們整個戰力提升來說它可能是更重要的而且我們現在面臨最大的問題是即使我們有裝備都沒有人我們寧可"},{"start":5685.334,"end":5691.257,"text":"讓我們自己的國軍可以接受可以有更好的福利我聽到他們說那些歡呼聲我相信部長如果聽到的時候你也會感動那我們就這個部分是不是部長在就您現在目前的在這個位置上面可以再去跟高層或者相關的部會再去做一些考量跟討論好不好"},{"start":5710.848,"end":5729.654,"text":"我想國防部立場當然就是說能夠照顧到官兵的待遇福利這當然都是樂見的但是我想我們還是要考慮到整個國家整體施政的很平性跟國家整體財政的餘度這樣好部長我還是要再提一次當我們增加兩三五千億預算的時候我們對於這樣兩三百億我覺得這樣的比例並不為過再一次提醒部長謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":5740.161,"end":5766.175,"text":"謝謝馬委員 部長請回接下來我們有請林楚英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長是 林委員好"},{"start":5767.425,"end":5771.666,"text":"部長辛苦了因為本來其實現在應該都已經是進入休會期那麼你們可以回去好好的來針對我們的國防或者是其他相關的軍事演練來做這個處理但是今天還是為了預算解凍必須把我們所有的這些包括從部長以下我們所有的參謀指揮官通通找來這裡剛剛我們看到國民黨的委員"},{"start":5789.77,"end":5801.218,"text":"一方面面對這個我們要解凍預算尤其是非常重要的相關的這些所謂軍事設施等等的這個預算的解凍我們今天在這裡剛剛昭偉也講了那麼國民黨的委員呢自己在質詢當中也不斷的強調"},{"start":5808.103,"end":5819.765,"text":"這個不要扣帽子然後這個預算的動刪都有一定的原因甚至於擔心因為大罷免大成功所以趕快要來做解釋一方面呢他們在煽動預算而且剛剛不斷的強調是說好現在這個預算因為相關的基地又出了問題所以不動行嗎不動難道說還要繼續這樣下去嗎但是部長"},{"start":5833.308,"end":5838.232,"text":"我請問一下有關於我們相關的軍事設施的這個預算我再來整理一下2025年藍白大砍的國防預算84億軍事的設備設施51億那設備跟投資13億國外的差旅教育費2億然後政策宣導是比較少一點0.3億因為本來國防部也就這部分的預算是比較少的然後一般事務水電啊這個我們國軍需要的水電費"},{"start":5859.566,"end":5870.454,"text":"也動刪了16.7億現在剛剛如果前面就國民黨的委員所講的話好像不動不刪就不行監督了部長真的是這樣嗎我們特別針對這個尤其凍結的這個預算高達快900億899億多就這個我來這邊已經第三次了"},{"start":5883.442,"end":5902.123,"text":"到現在還沒有完全能夠解凍完還有113年度的解凍案也還6個案也還沒有能夠解凍所以我想這個不管是3特別剛剛我們之前有提到國外旅會他又說不准留用"},{"start":5902.683,"end":5911.197,"text":"那事實上我們跟有盟國家的軍事交流應該會有相當大的一個影響那凍結的部分高達了快900億的這個部分到現在為止"},{"start":5917.066,"end":5937.904,"text":"剛剛當然馬委員舉了一兩個例子,但事實上高達900億的凍結預算我認為在國際間傳達的一個,就如同美國國會所講的其實是一個非常不利於我們願意爭搶自我防衛能力決心的一種"},{"start":5940.486,"end":5966.993,"text":"一種訊息的傳遞就是會傳達一種錯誤的訊息就是說我們到底對於強化我們的自我防衛的能力然後來透過國防預算的一個甄列然後來展示我們成為區域嚇阻裡面的一個最重要最重要的一環這件事情其實是在我看起來反而是非常"},{"start":5968.714,"end":5989.025,"text":"要值得大家麻煩各位不管是在朝或在野委員都要去深思的問題好所以本席特別為什麼把這個例子舉出來是因為國民黨的委員從昨天他說要給軍人加薪一手加薪但是一手動山預算我坦白講部長在這兒我們現在所有的這些我們的高階將領都在這裡這些動山的預算絕對不是只有部長一個人用或是在場的這些我們的這些高階的將領用"},{"start":5998.33,"end":6010.793,"text":"應該是所有的弟兄都會用到是吧那麼一方面我來看他們一山動山欲算但另外一方面呢他說他要加薪但是從2008年到2024年我特別做了一個比較表2008到2016馬英九執政是國民黨的馬英九執政的時候我們的薪資成長只有15%"},{"start":6021.957,"end":6048.771,"text":"16然後我們到了2016到2024年就是我們民長蔡英文總統執政的時候成長了26.76%我相信這個部分充分展現了我們對於國軍包括我們弟兄們的一個薪資上面的照顧包括我們昨天也特別提到了如果說今天一手是砍玉算動山運山讓國軍動潭不得甚至於就像部長您剛剛所講的就是我們"},{"start":6050.332,"end":6058.798,"text":"對外展現的是好像我們沒有想要好好的來對於國家的防衛的這個對外國際信息是錯誤的傳達的時候部長現在擺明了就是立法院通過了這300億那麼他會不會因為要強制加薪而排擠到接下來我們在軍頭或作業費上面的維繫跟維持我講一個更殘忍的是給他加薪但是不給他好的設備不給他好的配備"},{"start":6079.872,"end":6081.794,"text":"維護作用上面都受到影響的時候請問這個是真愛國軍嗎還是只是拿國軍當擋箭牌只是就像剛剛前面的委員講的提到擔心被罷免"},{"start":6095.636,"end":6115.818,"text":"我想我的看法跟委員報告,因為我們現在就任性的部分已經提出一個特別條例那我們會在下半年提出另外一個特別條例可是我們的年度預算有三分,就是一個人員維持會、作業維持會跟軍事投資就這個部分納入年度預算的時候呢"},{"start":6117.079,"end":6141.611,"text":"當你的人員維持會大幅的這個增加的時候你的年度預算的部分勢必會排除排除擠壓或不應該說排除應該是擠壓到我們的作業維持會跟我們的軍事投資作業維持會你不要看它不重要作業維持是我們唯心戰力的一個非常重要假設我們作業維持會因此被排擠而不夠的話那這個我們"},{"start":6145.695,"end":6171.592,"text":"我們這個沒有辦法妥善率能夠維持在一個程度的話那事實上這個對我們的戰力是非常產生大的影響那我們還有沒有納入特別條例的一些持續性的一些預算案那這個如果我們因此而產生被排擠的話我們軍事的投資這個更會彰顯出我們對於自我防衛能力的決心的不足所以我覺得"},{"start":6173.253,"end":6200.686,"text":"我在這邊只是說懇請就是說委員在做這樣的事情的時候我們能夠跟行政部因為我們花了很多的時間就4月1號的志願役條這個加級然後戰隊部隊的加級那加加網路戰電偵戰航管的加級等等都經過內部很審慎的討論那如果委員在立法的同時能夠跟行政部門好好做一個溝通協調來審慎的研議相關的這個整體施政的橫平性我會"},{"start":6201.866,"end":6221.27,"text":"站在公安部裡講我會比較感激這樣子的一個做法好 其實本席也是認為不論是在薪資上面給予我們辛苦第一線的國軍給予一定的所謂的加級或者是加薪都是有其必要性但是除了加薪之外因為他們第一線是需要這些裝備來協助他們捍衛國家"},{"start":6223.891,"end":6241.572,"text":"那我也希望呈現出來的是不要一手給加薪一手在黨預算凍結預算我們今天要處理的所有凍結的預算要解凍都是國民黨的委員所提出來的所以我也希望在這個質詢台上要把事情講清楚不是扣帽子而是事實就是如此"},{"start":6241.932,"end":6245.574,"text":"另外我來看下一張剛剛其實有委員問到了這個有關於就是讓我們的國軍可以優先登基的部分其實本席第一時間就非常的肯定那麼但是剛剛也有特別提到的就是有關於眷屬的部分"},{"start":6257.921,"end":6269.872,"text":"因為我們都知道國軍如果今天是因為公務外出那麼我相信在部裡面都會做一個很好的安排很妥適的安排但是有些時候這些狀況是難得可以收假的國軍弟兄們他們可能要跟家人出國"},{"start":6277.319,"end":6301.25,"text":"所以這個部分是不是有考量進去除了公務之外公務之餘這個部分的休息是不是也有納入那這個部分也許是在這個辦法推出的時候沒有在細部思考的我不知道部長是不是也有思考到這個部分就是我相信如果是公務公務優先但是我認為他們難得可以休假如果帶著家屬"},{"start":6302.11,"end":6318.247,"text":"那麼有沒有機會優先或者是有沒有什麼樣的思考這個部分部長您這邊跟交通部部分有沒有進行更細部的的了解我想第一點就是說我上任之後就開放自助旅行嘛是旅遊那自由行"},{"start":6320.61,"end":6335.392,"text":"自由行 剛剛人事給我的資料就顯示人數是增加的所以我們這一次的優先搭機當然就是不會限於公務就是當然包括你要參加團體旅遊也好 或者參加自助旅遊"},{"start":6335.732,"end":6362.999,"text":"自由行也好都是可以使用那軍人身份證的部分我們也研究過了沒有涉及相關的機敏的部分那眷屬的部分的話我們在第一波沒有納入那不過我想交通部也表示相當大的一個善意說願意來跟我們進行研討那應該是說我們會想辦法納入第二階段好 所以第二階段有機會把一起出國的眷屬也納入"},{"start":6364.68,"end":6385.315,"text":"對,不過這個還有一些細部討論,就是說眷屬,我的瞭解是有軍人眷屬的身份證,有包括父母子女跟配偶,那究竟是如何?那因為美國的話,他就是說一名軍人,然後可以有一名眷屬,那這個細節的部分我們再跟交通部商量一下。"},{"start":6385.555,"end":6408.093,"text":"好,我認為其實不只是薪資啦,其他的福裕、待遇跟像這種在交通上面或者是其他我們在日常生活中給予我們國軍弟兄一定的優先或者是一定的待遇的優惠我想這個也都是另外一種我們展現我們軍外民營進軍的一個方式我覺得我這邊要特別提出來就是說"},{"start":6409.174,"end":6431.261,"text":"這樣的一個措施 我說明就是說看似是一個平凡 但是它事實上彰顯了要提升軍人的榮譽感軍人榮譽感的提升 在我看起來 我們從政策上來看如何能夠提升軍人榮譽感是一件非常重要的事情本席也非常肯定 謝謝部長謝謝林楚瑩委員 部長請回"},{"start":6437.591,"end":6441.113,"text":"接下來我們請沈伯陽召委上台質詢謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝有請顧部長"},{"start":6470.171,"end":6496.85,"text":"部長好剛剛前面其實又一直提到因為昨天這個軍人待遇條例的這個通過剛剛這個處應委員其實有提到就是到底會不會影響到其他的這個作業維持但是我還是要再講一次就是說這個其實在4月1號之前我還記得我們在這邊有做這個協商那我那時候記得部長有特別提到就是說如果要入法的話因為他放的是戰鬥部隊加級"},{"start":6498.351,"end":6516.877,"text":"但我們其實還有戰航管 我們有網路戰 有什麼任何其他的我們有十幾種的對 有十幾種嘛 就是十一種的那單單的把一個放在這個法律上其實是顯得非常的詭異啦那裡面呢 我記得也有提到 就是超時加急這一個部分因為超時本身它不是加急的這個定義"},{"start":6517.837,"end":6543.459,"text":"所以其實在這個協商我們都有把這個意見提出國防部也有提出這個意見不過顯然看起來好像這個協商好像沒有任何的意義啦所以呢就這樣結束了然後表決然後就過了然後呢剛剛馬文君這個委員提到說這個國軍歡呼啦什麼等等之類的我是覺得啦就是說其實我們做這種違憲完全不符合憲政體制的這種方式呢其實並不合時宜但其實我們當然是支持"},{"start":6544.299,"end":6561.193,"text":"軍人這個加級或者待遇的一個提升然後讓這個不僅是士氣的提升跟待遇的提升那剛剛這個部長有提到4月1號的時候我們已經有做過第一次嘛戰鬥部隊嘛6月1號志願役加級跟戰鬥部隊加級志願役跟戰鬥部隊然後6月1號有增加了網路戰加級"},{"start":6562.154,"end":6583.164,"text":"所以這是一系列的這個措施那這個一定是有去橫著整個財務的規劃不要去做到任何的擠壓然後在能力範圍之內所做的事情所以我還是覺得我們立法院就是這一年以來用這種迴線亂政的方式真的我也必須要講假設今天立法委員直接通過一個法律說電價全部歸零我相信全國人民也會歡呼啦"},{"start":6583.684,"end":6599.744,"text":"但問題是他就不符合我們現在憲政體制的這一個這個設計所以還是要講一下但是問題是這個我看今天開始大概很大一部分就是會做這樣的一個政治攻擊所以我也是希望國防部能夠多多跟軍人說明就是說"},{"start":6600.465,"end":6629.72,"text":"今天我們並不是說支持或不支持軍人的這個加擠的這個方案我們是針對這個憲政體制針對這樣的一個立法方式有所懷疑那但是我們對於現在呢這個待遇的提升 士氣的提升我們當然大方向是贊成的但我還是認為立法院應該要做的事情是用決議的方式然後讓行政院 讓國防部去評估然後評估之後呢我們可以看到其實在過往我們都已經發生過好幾次的加刑嘛"},{"start":6630.1,"end":6650.228,"text":"那我們當然是建議要往哪一個方向前進我覺得這才是一個立法行政比較好的一個分際但我還有一個小問題因為這是剛剛前面馬文俊委員提到的讓我想還是我覺得應該把這個立場講一下那我今天有看到這個因為今天有這個跟性平相關的這個解凍案那這個性平相關的解凍案我認為就是說"},{"start":6653.084,"end":6665.413,"text":"當然這個既然都已經做了專案報告我覺得可以做一個稍微的檢視就是說在第一頁的時候裡面有提到說這個性別相關的這個教材叫做科版那第一個我認為雖然科版這個是有檢討但是它的解決方式我覺得好像"},{"start":6672.358,"end":6701.658,"text":"好像沒有寫在上面我的建議就是說一些跟實力相關的整合這件事情因為既然都說已經刻板了實力相關的整合我覺得應該要進去這是第一點第二點就是通常因為我以前當過性評委員所以性評機制蠻重要的一個就是叫做處理的流程圖跟窗口如果說今天即時處理的窗口還有流程圖是有讓每一位官兵都能夠知道他很清楚說這個處理的流程是什麼樣子"},{"start":6702.658,"end":6718.996,"text":"以及處理時間通常我們都已經很在意就是說因為如果說你處理時間都很長那就可能會造成什麼就算我知道這個流程圖就算有這個處理的窗口這個一年半載根本就沒有辦法處理這個會降低他們想要去通報的意願"},{"start":6720.237,"end":6736.964,"text":"那問題是處理時間的長短這個可能是要長期追蹤我們才知道那這個是我們定期每一年可以去看一下如果我們有這個處理的流程然後呢 加上我們處理的時間然後定期的也跟讓官兵知道那這樣對性平的這一個幫助我認為會比較大啦我就直接建議啦 這個"},{"start":6738.104,"end":6762.347,"text":"建議那再來就是性別友善這件事情其實蠻重要那女性的一個比例比如說我們今天在這個裡面有哪一些平等的工作小組啦什麼等等之類的我在猜可能有可能有比例啦只是在報告裡面沒有寫到但這個可能也稍微注意一下稍微建議一下那接下來我想問一下自通電不好意思 請自通電"},{"start":6765.029,"end":6794.307,"text":"這件事情其實已經發生一陣子了這個我記得之前這個時序2024年9月的時候就有一次這個台獨網軍匿名者六四起底這樣的一個文章那這個我好像在X上面我印象是這個樣子2025年說他鎖定4名然後呢2025年6月5號說又20名那剛剛自動電有提到說這個是舊的資料所以我覺得這不是一個最大的問題因為他們本來就喜歡用舊資料而且他跟護證機關我們護證資料也有外洩嘛所以做一些比對啊等等之類的"},{"start":6795.427,"end":6821.105,"text":"但是我現在想要知道的事情就是說因為我們今天一直提到軍人待遇的提升希望是他留營就是希望軍人待遇提升之後大家願意待在國軍那現在這件事情對資通電它是一個新戰資通電人數其實也多那在這樣的一個新戰的狀況之下一定也會影響到招募、留營等等的意願所以我這邊第一個就是剛剛美林委員有提到但我想再確認一次就是說我們在這個匿名的機制在這個資通電是說過往"},{"start":6825.347,"end":6850.286,"text":"沒有做 但是現在要開始 是這個意思嗎就是說我們跟委員報告 應該是說我們今年的三四月開始已經開始在研討這個議題那就我的了解就是說有關相關的這些具體的做法跟畫面作業的系統的建立我們就會在這一個月底以前完成 然後來實行這樣"},{"start":6851.587,"end":6876.808,"text":"好,我覺得這個很重要,因為軍情跟國安通常會做這些啦那這個我是覺得說,因為這個機制是正在建立當中嘛那正在建立當中的同時呢,自動電應該是現在應該要做一些比較純防守的業務因為如果說在這個期間呢,又有一些其他的情勢發生的話那因為這個機制還沒有完成嘛,那就很容易又會被做文章啦所以我還是覺得說,這一個方面可能還是要多注意一點"},{"start":6877.549,"end":6902.352,"text":"那另外一個就是這個因為剛剛有提到說其實有三分之二的人他已經他已經離開了嘛他已經不在自動電了但問題是他還是可能會有一定程度的風險他不只是可能會被制裁的風險或者被抓的風險甚至有可能是這個所謂的這個被統戰的風險所以我這邊有提到就是說呢當然因為我不知道他們因為剛剛並沒有提到他離開多久啊我覺得在這邊也不要講但如果說他已經是可以出國的話"},{"start":6903.413,"end":6931.474,"text":"可能要跟他講這個相關風險而且不是只有這20位因為他可能只是隨便挑20位然後去拼湊一些舊資料他鎖定的可能是比較多人那這些不管是尤其是已經退役的那剛剛我們也有提到甚至現已我們都有提到跟這個觀光有關的這個措施嘛這個有可能會造成他們人身上的安全又倒過來講可能變成反過來要統戰的對象這個風險有可能必須要告知這件事情所以拜託注意一下"},{"start":6937.393,"end":6951.399,"text":"我們現在就是參照國安局跟軍局相關的做法我們會來進行相關的這些退役人員管制的一些作為然後剛剛也提到了我們會有一些具體的一些做法"},{"start":6953.9,"end":6973.875,"text":"就是隱匿或者是掩護等等那即使是退役的話我想我們也會來進行所以這個部分我覺得我們有國安局跟這個軍情局可以來做一個參考因為離開國軍之後有時候反而是風險開始增高的時候因為對他們來講容易接觸是"},{"start":6978.157,"end":6991.522,"text":"這個趨勢科技因為最近當然也有做一些新的資安報告那這個我先不多問因為但是這個也跟現在跟自動電它不同的路徑怎麼去感染什麼等等之類的那這個在不管是我們做採購什麼等等之類的這可能要特別注意一下"},{"start":6992.762,"end":7009.269,"text":"接下來我還有一個比較小的問題是要問中科院跟資源司這個部分其實已經有在辦公室先討論過但是我覺得我們還是跟國人來做一個公開的說明就是說我們都知道現在有軍品認證軍品認證這邊有一個評鑑事項的評分的表格在這個做評分表格之後因為這個評分表格裡面有講到研發"},{"start":7017.873,"end":7030.808,"text":"那這個有些跟中科院合作的廠商他就有點害怕就是說因為他比較負責製造然後中科院做了研發他就怕說研發的分數沒有辦法算到他身上所以呢那因為中科院也會跟他講說反正你就去申請這個認證這個認證內容的標準就擺在那邊你就去申請就對了但是他們有時候會有點無所適從"},{"start":7037.876,"end":7059.336,"text":"那我們那時候問資源司的時候資源司說這個中科院某種程度可以做一些輔導但中科院的立場會說這個會不會有迴避的問題所以呢是不是這邊再跟國人說明一下就是說這種軍品認證它的流程那它應該怎麼做有沒有什麼輔導的機制讓他們說他們的評分機制在這邊然後有哪些是算分不算分該怎麼做是不是跟國人說明一下"},{"start":7060.081,"end":7082.107,"text":"級別認證的部分主要是資源師在做負責我想輔導的部分以及宣導的部分都是由資源師來做那從我上任以後我發現級別認證的這個廠家數不夠高所以我們現在應該要多鼓勵他們來進行那現在在相關的辦法裡面大概有分三類"},{"start":7082.927,"end":7101.091,"text":"所以他們也要就這個不同的這個三類的這種軍品的這個認證部分也要有一定的治安的一個認證的要求那另外我要求他們的流程要加快因為過去本來審議的時間會比較長一點那我們現在應該是要縮短這個級別認證的審議的時間所以我希望在軍品認證的這個部分能夠盡快的加速加多"},{"start":7112.233,"end":7126.218,"text":"那現在是中科院的合作廠商的部分呢反而就是說他不一定會來做級別的認證那就這個部分的這些合作的廠商的部分以後我想我們也應該要設法來輔導他們"},{"start":7128.649,"end":7146.055,"text":"那這個中科院的部分要補充一下嗎我們確實很積極的在輔導他們並沒有角色認證的問題那就拜託因為今天部長也講了那就請兩位單位幫忙來做一些輔導至少說讓他們覺得這個流程是順利就跟我們剛剛講性平機制一樣"},{"start":7147.515,"end":7161.333,"text":"有一個流程一個SOP是長什麼樣子這一定會有幫助那因為我時間已經到了那最後呢我剛剛忘記了就是說剛剛自動電的部分因為前陣子他們去年針對海巡的興戰比較多那現在針對自動電感覺也是一個興戰這個相信除了我們剛剛講要怎麼去針對"},{"start":7163.796,"end":7188.17,"text":"已經退出的要怎麼去保護他或者告知他以外對於現役的資通訊人員他一定會有一些心理上的壓力所以這個不管是輔導的機制什麼等等之類的拜託就是可以協助一下另外最重要的就是我剛剛寫在第一頁的就是就是因為這很明顯對方用拼湊的資料啦用什麼之類的直接做一個新戰的攻擊所以呢我知道今天有各個委員去詢問但是拜託就不要再要求各級要什麼檢討提報什麼之類的"},{"start":7189.691,"end":7206.205,"text":"這完全就是在增加業務我覺得沒有任何的意義他就是一個中國的攻擊師中國應該負責我們現在想現在第一個先扶貧情緒然後接下來就是我們該怎麼防範把防範這件事情做好我覺得就可以了好 謝謝謝謝文哲我們就在現在就在做這樣的事情謝謝部長謝謝謝謝沈伯陽召委部長請回"},{"start":7223.211,"end":7252.004,"text":"接下來我們請林益鈞委員上台質詢謝謝召委 有請國防部顧部長有請部長市委員委員好"},{"start":7252.861,"end":7258.384,"text":"部長好我想請教一下就是部長你們今年是不是有一筆從機密的預算轉成公開的預算就是今天會議送來的預算解凍案之一有一個F16V的型的戰機作戰資源夾娼妓武器彈藥籌過案"},{"start":7269.71,"end":7272.033,"text":"在114年的編列15億的預算中被凍結了3000萬那部長這個案子其實在今年的114年之前其實都是編列在機密的預算但是當然之前就是都沒有公開的審查"},{"start":7284.807,"end":7290.331,"text":"所以但是今年度已經改成公開預算了所以我想請教一下就是國防部裡面對計畫的內容是什麼究竟買了什麼還有買了多少作戰的需求是什麼還有要買多少的彈藥呢還是資源的夾艙呢然後彈藥夾艙要買多少呢籌備後能夠這整個符合多少的作戰的效應因為當初這些是連最基本的內容都沒有在整個預算"},{"start":7312.188,"end":7316.611,"text":"預算書裡面所以但是本席從你們今天送來的解凍案中似乎還是依舊沒有看到整個的說明的內容因為這一項的籌購案是一個總額高達428億的跨年度的預算明年度的預算就在9月份就會送到立法院來審查預計大約編列了32億的預算那是不是也是一樣買什麼和買多少都不知道呢"},{"start":7341.247,"end":7350.236,"text":"反正是不是國防部的預算凍結不得 刪減也不得呢還是就會被說成中共同路人呢難道這是國防部在面對預算審查的態度嗎可否請部長簡單的說明一下"},{"start":7355.426,"end":7374.91,"text":"委員好 我是空軍新聞部參謀長跟委員回報我們在F16的案子這個部分包含作戰甲艙跟武器的部分都是列在機密預算裡面那並沒有轉成公務預算那公務預算的部分可能是前面的一些作業費的部分那這個部分我們一直都是列在機密預算裡面跟委員做個報告所以今天不是他已經公開了嗎可以公開預算可以公開"},{"start":7384.847,"end":7406.6,"text":"機密預算的部分目前沒有公開的部分不是不是這個在114年度的時候他這個是已經變成是可以變成轉成公開的預算嗎目前了解的是沒有轉成公開預算的部分從機密就是夾艙的部分還有我們武器彈藥的部分這個部分是沒有轉成公開預算的部分"},{"start":7407.079,"end":7410.4,"text":"好 那沒關係那我再接下來部長你看一下美國同意對外軍售的時候會公佈在美國安和局的這個網站上面所以本席也請助理花了很多時間過濾美國的安和局最近幾年對台軍售的項目裡面就有關F16V作戰資源的夾艙的內容就是剛才所說的那部長你看一下螢幕的內容過濾之後可以發現其實沒有幾項啊"},{"start":7434.508,"end":7448.844,"text":"如果再根據對應的構型來整個我們來篩選一下那其實具體這些軍購案是哪一項其實我們看得非常的清楚啊所以我想再看一下下一個圖表這個是美國安和局宣布同意對台灣軍售的新聞稿數量"},{"start":7452.228,"end":7457.573,"text":"還有跟整個的項目都是清清楚楚的如果美方資訊揭露都那麼完整那是否表示對美國來說這些軍售案根本就已經沒有機密的問題了那國防部的聯度預算書或解凍報告裡面是不是也應該相對的要有基本的資訊的揭露呢"},{"start":7475.246,"end":7500.797,"text":"委員好,我是站會市市長,向委員報告我們這個軍售案的那個制度,一向都是在美方知會國會之前我們會列為機密,是避免遭遇到干擾那EBISODE WE BLOCK 拐動,它的彈藥跟作戰甲槍的部分在美方知會國會之後,我們就開始進入改列公開的這個動作所以目前這個預算改列公開,是因為美方已經知會國會"},{"start":7505.034,"end":7519.973,"text":"那他們都可以公開了那個相關的項目彈藥的這個部分跟委員報告他主要是F-16V不外乎他使用的四型彈藥跟他使用的您看到的這個作戰甲艙的這個部分"},{"start":7522.58,"end":7534.785,"text":"所以我們再來看一下其實國防部各個軍種其實關於年度預算資訊揭露的完整性周本齊真的是要跟部長提到一下就提到我看一下那個陸軍的預算的資訊揭露就是非常的完整我們來訪觀一下我們海馬4的多管的火箭還有托式飛彈到M1A2的戰車這個整個作戰的需求要買多少"},{"start":7546.11,"end":7549.193,"text":"還有要買什麼還有我們美方交付的多少預算書裡面都是清清楚楚的那為什麼陸軍都做得到海軍跟空軍都做不到呢那這問題是不是請部長要多加強海軍空軍的督導啊而且還要提醒一下部長"},{"start":7563.004,"end":7569.69,"text":"只要預算不涉及機密本來就應該要公開資訊的根據預算法裡面規定國防部就有責任還有義務要向我們全體的立法委員說清楚去年我們立法院預算中心的預算評估報告裡面也有提出整個警告"},{"start":7581.16,"end":7587.706,"text":"針對國防部對美國的軍購案有很多項目都沒有按照主計總署要求預算編列的規定寫清楚所以部長希望國防部在下會期送來的立法院審查115年度的預算書裡面至少軍購案裡面的主要的籌購的品項還有各品項籌購的數量"},{"start":7602.757,"end":7615.345,"text":"還有分年度預算、籌貨品項及數量這三項的內容務必要基本的資訊揭露讓我們立法院大家看預算書的時候可以清清楚楚的一目了然"},{"start":7619.407,"end":7636.854,"text":"我們原本在美方智慧國會之後它的各個相關的項目一定會按照預算書表裡面詳細的去陳列至於委員提到的有關於海空軍的部分寫得不夠詳細的話我們會回去重新檢視一下是不是有相關疏漏的部分或是因為"},{"start":7637.554,"end":7660.734,"text":"他當初知會國會的時間剛好是在預算書送達立法院之後也就是解密的時間這個預算書表已經在立法院了所以他之前是機密但是後面知會國會的時間已經進入到裡面我們是後面才進行解密的動作所以可能會產生資訊的落差這一點我們會去做改善"},{"start":7661.63,"end":7665.715,"text":"好那今天時間也不多啦所以這個我想國安部還是要改善好那接下來我再詢問部長關於F16V的戰機延遲交付的問題請問一開始的時候這個計畫是2023年的時候應該要交付4架但是因為新冠肺炎嘛"},{"start":7679.773,"end":7699.778,"text":"還有俄烏戰爭影響改成去年2024年才開始交付但是整年還是沒有交付所以好不容易今年2025年3月我們第一架F16終於出場了但是最近又看到媒體在報導說今年只能交付六架那我想請教一下部長就是根據國防部掌握的資訊就是美國今年究竟"},{"start":7700.998,"end":7703.639,"text":"預計能交付幾架F16戰機給台灣呢全案是不是會一樣維持整個明年2026年會完成整個交付的計畫呢還有國防部現在目前掌握的資訊造成進一步延遲交付的原因到底有哪些呢美國應該是不會毫無理由的故意拖延的吧國防部應該有持續跟美方保持密切溝通吧"},{"start":7728.312,"end":7750.027,"text":"委員好這邊繼續跟委員做個報告這個延遲的原因就如同陳儒這個委員剛剛一開始提到的這個在後疫情時代這個整個供應鏈有慢慢在恢復的這個狀況那恢復不如預期那第二個就是國際局勢的這個變化非常大還有一個很重要的關鍵因素是我們這個整個系統都是非常先進很多在美軍跟我們來講"},{"start":7750.828,"end":7771.054,"text":"是第一次做一個系統的整合所以在整合上的風險都非常的高那我們每一次每個月的專案會議都有督促美方也都了解到進度我們也有定期不定期的訪場了解整個專案的進度美方在組裝線上也有增加人力跟組裝站的作為"},{"start":7772.654,"end":7795.099,"text":"那目前我們最後一次就在上個月的專案會議裡面也都非常的樂觀看待明年底能夠如期的交付那今年媒體報導的這個六價我們從來沒有看過這個數字那在美方的評估今年交機就是產權轉移十價以上這個是非常樂觀那以上跟委員報告"},{"start":7796.479,"end":7810.535,"text":"好那我最後再因為時間到了再問一個問題就是今天部長有說網路站加擠已經開始實施了目前的增幅的幅度增加的幅度到底有多少呢還有第二波加擠的時候是何時可以實施呢第一波的部分的網路站加擠的部分呢他這個網路站的加擠其實是"},{"start":7819.407,"end":7848.133,"text":"蠻複雜的,它有分成專精二級、專精一級、精英二級、精英一級跟專家級這個是我們,它本身就是一個很複雜的一個它需要取得相關的一些證照啊等等的然後還有一些戰國的評估所以我們本身就是一個很複雜的一個網路戰家級那戰狼館家級跟定層家級現在已經在行政院在審議當中所以第二波家級何時實施還不知道"},{"start":7851.608,"end":7869.557,"text":"鎮安館的勤務加急跟電增的加急我們當然就期待行政院能夠加速審議所以現在還沒有嗎?對不對?還在研議中嗎?還是審議中?就應該是在院裡面吧OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":7874.771,"end":7885.821,"text":"謝謝林委員 部長請回那待會我們這個王定宇委員執行完畢以後我們那個短暫休息五分鐘不好意思那現在請王定宇委員上台執行謝謝主席 麻煩部長有請部長"},{"start":7910.289,"end":7930.123,"text":"部長早,有好幾個訊息我想我把握時間盡快詢問,也希望在不影響國家安全、不影響保密的規定下,我們盡量透明的讓民眾了解。第一個,我看到一個很荒謬的現象,全世界台灣大概是網路攻擊受害的第一名,每年都第一名。"},{"start":7931.084,"end":7953.933,"text":"每一天平時根據國安局的報告就有240萬次的網路攻擊主要的來源不管是透過VPN 透過跳板大概跟中國都脫不了干系中國還有戰略支援部隊他們的總部在上海以及其他地方結果他們現在把我們的支通電軍他公佈了一個20名"},{"start":7956.514,"end":7983.016,"text":"那這個資料我贊成國防部你不用去跟他講是或不是就讓他們亂猜他現在今天最新的消息是國台辦竟然這標準的做大賊到處喊抓賊說什麼廣州一家資安公司被駭客現在他們準備把台灣的知通電軍這20個人納入重點監管範圍第一個國防部的態度以及我們有沒有反制的做法"},{"start":7985.611,"end":7995.539,"text":"我想我們廣播的態度當然就是認為是說真正在做這些妄害的,我想第一個還要先說明的,真正妄害的這個"},{"start":7997.29,"end":8018.703,"text":"全世界都公認的是中國在進行這樣的妄害是最多那我們的中間核心任務還是要維護這個國境的資訊,確保網路的安全那相關的這些剛剛因為幾個委員都聽到了,我們防範的部分現在就是說既然是"},{"start":8021.52,"end":8047.367,"text":"這個四重情報機關嘛那所以我們對四重情報機關在勤工法的規範之下我們來建立相關的這些保護安全管控跟這些機制保護重要他們的司法管轄權不及於我們跟世界各地也是事實但現在中國是進行所謂的法理長臂管轄的法理戰所以對於你看上次主張武統武統是什麼意思啊"},{"start":8048.565,"end":8072.381,"text":"贊成解放軍來殺我們的軍人來攻擊我們的國家上次那個中國籍配偶雅雅因為贊成武統現在被遣返回去她昨天也在那邊發布說這20個自動電軍要抓起來神祭儀法這擺明了土匪我們在國軍保護自己的國家是正正當當的國家的軍隊"},{"start":8073.482,"end":8102.453,"text":"他們現在想要侵略我們的國家想要消滅我們的國家用法律的概念說要通緝某個將領要抓某個軍人資料內容未必為真但他用這種態度要展現殘弊管轄對他們相關的人負荷的人國安部有沒有考慮採取法律動作你將來要再入境台灣你這種恐嚇國軍主張把國軍要讓中共來懲治啦 研辦啦"},{"start":8103.984,"end":8109.839,"text":"這樣子的行為我認為法律戰還是要用法律為之我不知道部長你是法律人這事應該怎麼辦"},{"start":8111.167,"end":8134.91,"text":"我想中國對我們進行所謂的心理戰、認知戰跟這個輿論戰這個是每天都在進行的而且相當綿密的然後來這個結合這個我們在地的協力者來進行這樣的一個作為那所以我想我們"},{"start":8137.353,"end":8151.525,"text":"對這個法律戰的一個認知是我們從來不認為他可以管轄到我們這一點在國際上我們要清楚的說明這也就是說明我們像現在"},{"start":8153.386,"end":8180.219,"text":"好像王委員也被列入了我列入好多次了本來還覺得蠻高興的我好像也被列入了那所以像這樣子的我認為這種心理戰跟認知戰的作為程度是比較高這一題我先在這邊打住啦就是說我建議國安部去尤其用法律思考一下這種附和來恐嚇我們國軍的我們在中華民國的司法體系告他你以後再入境辦他"},{"start":8182.398,"end":8199.438,"text":"這個東西就是我們國家有司法主權我們國家的國軍是憲法的部隊不能讓這些土匪的行徑來威脅我們第二個題目要請教的是F5F5要除役了那F5其實對我們中華民國空軍來講是很有感情的"},{"start":8200.579,"end":8223.933,"text":"一架飛機從1965年11月28號第一架F-5A呢美國用援助的方式提供給我們第一架到現在服役超過50年我們空軍最多的時候擁有423架其中國產的就有336架1973年從諾斯洛普那邊得到技術在台灣生產到1986年生產了308架等等那"},{"start":8229.196,"end":8248.163,"text":"這一個過程F5可以說是捍衛我國領空是一個相當有超過50年我相信在場的飛官我們的教官們步訊機大概都飛過這一架過去的大漠計畫我們援助越南F5都看到影子一架飛機的廚藝"},{"start":8250.56,"end":8276.848,"text":"有很多舉辦的方式我不知道現在國防部這個廚藝我聽說六月底要廚藝了這個廚藝的規模是在中隊聯隊還是大隊辦一辦有沒有什麼特殊的儀式或紀念式的活動我的了解應該是會在7月4號吧花蓮基地來進行這樣的一個一個廚藝的一個典禮這樣子我給你看法國"},{"start":8277.748,"end":8303.895,"text":"這影片大家看的參考就好法國的這一個他的幻象1除役典禮他會拍一個日本也會他們的幽靈4戰機在除役的時候第一個會一個影片然後第二個在地上的分裂式或怎樣來尊榮這個老兵保護我們的領空他退伍了這一個除役的動作我真的建議空軍或者我們國防部可以"},{"start":8306.345,"end":8331.941,"text":"更具備紀念性的也讓他想起我們的領空在這麼多空軍艦兒也很多人付出生命的代價捍衛著他而F5伴隨著我們超過50年的時間這個儀式不可以潦草舉辦啦我知道那如果7月4號要辦呢時間很迫近啦我真的建議可以好好來舉辦一個F5的除役活動這個是給部長的建議你們目前有什麼樣的規劃現在"},{"start":8337.385,"end":8362.576,"text":"我想我們應該會做一個紀念影片會參與其他國家做法來製作具有這樣傳承跟紀念意義的一個影像讓國人一同來見證這個榮耀那典禮的這個規劃的這個部分我想我們現在還在進行當中好 我們希望如果到時候的話可以的話我們國防委員會也可以受到邀請去見證"},{"start":8363.556,"end":8376.763,"text":"如果不方便沒關係因為這先到人力物力跟你們勤務的時間這不勉強那接下來我這個建議那個部長國軍內部管理工作教範我們以往還沒有正式我們6月20號2019年6月20號有一個修訂版"},{"start":8380.705,"end":8394.416,"text":"規定是志願役就職業軍人6點出營第二天早上7點半要入營那其實以前沒有這個叫飯的時候呢那個原來的規定默契是早上的"},{"start":8396.918,"end":8415.287,"text":"下午的五點半下午的五點半離營然後早上的八點進入營區啦原來的規定比較人性化是第一方面志願役軍人他的家庭大概都在當地所以不管是孩子的上下學家庭的生活作息原來的朝八下午五點半"},{"start":8416.167,"end":8435.372,"text":"比較接近我們現在是早上呢7點半以前就要露營然後晚上到6點才能離營這個跟上班作息時間會有點落差我們原來戰備期間根本就沒有什麼休假了但在平時平時的時候如果可以有更有"},{"start":8436.132,"end":8447.554,"text":"符合生活特性更人性化的管理其實這個對志願役的軍官士兵來講是一個可以做得到的事情我不知道部長怎麼看這個事情這不是大事但是應該做得到"},{"start":8449.97,"end":8464.822,"text":"這個部分我覺得我們還是要考量操課前後的相關訓練的準備的所需要的工作跟時間如果下午是五點半可以離營早上八點就上班時間才露營因為現在會影響到操課嗎"},{"start":8466.744,"end":8485.296,"text":"因為現在操課的時間就是會到下午的這個如果下午來講會到6點不過我們如果委員關心的話是針對特殊的個案我們經過這個邊界上校主管的核定可以來做一個調整"},{"start":8485.956,"end":8502.737,"text":"所以他是可以個案調整的就是針對一些特殊的個案部長是不是這樣就是說在有操課班表的需求的值班的本來就要值班的這個按照這一個那對於沒有這樣的特性的話這個上班時間我沒有說一定要怎麼樣讓部長去考量"},{"start":8504.98,"end":8523.517,"text":"就是讓我們的志願役的軍官士官士兵們在上下班上能夠比較接近家庭生活作息我做這樣建議讓部長去做參酌下一件事情給部長我覺得國防醫學院要解釋一下小事但這都作業上的不嚴謹"},{"start":8526.053,"end":8539.357,"text":"國防醫學院的醫學級戰傷救護嚴錫銀這個很好提高全民韌性報名的開始時間是6月10號報名截止是6月3號部長有沒有看出他的問題網站上報名時間是6月10號開始然後想要報名的人在6月3號就收到說我們已經報名額滿了那國防醫學院在幹什麼 這內定的"},{"start":8555.383,"end":8578.512,"text":"這就是國防醫學院說明你告訴我這是什麼原因是 包委員 這個應該是內部作業沒有 這公告喔 你們的公告喔我6月10號開始接受報名然後呢 網路上的作業已經通知要報名說我們6月3號已經額滿了你們是有內定名額是不是包委員 沒有那沒有 你告訴我 6月3號學院哪裡來的"},{"start":8580.766,"end":8608.095,"text":"那這個我們下去會再你現在手上有沒有報名的名單你現在手上如果已經有報名的名單今天是6月11吧6月11嘛那你們那個就做假的啊要不然你現在手上怎麼會有報名的名單理論上是昨天開始接受報名然後你們6月3號就跟人家講額滿了然後你現在手上已經有報名額滿的名單了啊這不是內定什麼是內定小事但從小看大你們如果這樣作業的話"},{"start":8609.255,"end":8633.066,"text":"每件公文我都要開始懷疑每個作業時程你們答應的節點我也開始懷疑國防醫學院哪一個最科學的啊怎麼會發生這種事你知道你們上次也一樣這樣的事情你們上次報名類似的營隊也發生過一次我那一次議題太多沒有問你沒想到現在又來一次你們是內部的子女很樂於報名這個還是怎樣"},{"start":8635.64,"end":8662.438,"text":"謝謝委員長 我一定會要求公安醫學院來做一個充分的說明我謝謝那個我們後備 因為後備旅較糟的費用物品費三月都沒有了 很多人帶電不過這部分你們已經解決了那個是你們在人事跟物品費的項目的編列數額有一個落差 那解決就好那我也謝謝你們 昨天跟你們反映你們今天開始要作業處理這個事情不要讓基層的官兵"},{"start":8663.479,"end":8670.832,"text":"帶電費用啦 這個事情不要再發生了好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝林委員 部長請回那我們先休息五分鐘"},{"start":9195.097,"end":9217.506,"text":"好,我們現在繼續開會,有請陳雪生委員上台質詢好,謝謝主席,是不是請顧部長有請部長是,陳委員部長早,辛苦了"},{"start":9218.618,"end":9245.729,"text":"那麼今天質詢一個緊急呼籲一個蝴蝶採風的環流效應已經到達馬祖了那麼這兩天我們海上的交通已經全部中斷尤其離島的也中斷了氣候也不是非常好目前還在目前還沒開場那麼我們縣政府已經提出軍機申請的要求請國防部這邊就是軍機"},{"start":9248.157,"end":9262.068,"text":"西腰山洞能不能已經提出申請了,因為旅客非常的多,那麼海上的交通中斷,能不能請部長幫個忙,能夠同意我們我們是請看"},{"start":9264.261,"end":9277.075,"text":"如果說天氣許可的情況下,我們空軍都會有做一個緊急待命的飛機,提出申請我們評估完,如果說可以的話我們都會執行請幫忙一下好不好,不要說一架兩架,三架四架都要去好不好,拜託一下"},{"start":9278.476,"end":9293.99,"text":"之前有去過試駕的紀錄,試駕次不是試駕,他其實兩駕次嘛兩駕次降落以後飛回來再飛一趟所以我們會平衡一下我們整個戰備任務跟軍機許可的狀況第二件事情就是部長"},{"start":9295.336,"end":9321.908,"text":"馬阿祖到高雄航線已經飛了其實這一個航線我們主要還是為了軍人因為那邊在南部的軍事兵大概有一半那我也希望國防部在票價的部分能夠在預算上做個適合的一個調整讓他們回家的路能夠更近部長可以嗎差不多三分之二都是官兵"},{"start":9323.332,"end":9350.566,"text":"三分之二都是官兵,好不好?鮑委員我們了解,那個入侵部已經在編列相關的預算未來看怎麼樣沒有的話先雲枝流用都可以嘛,好不好?這個讓馬防部的官兵能夠順利的能夠回家,好不好?這個行業畢竟不容易,你不要隨便讓他再關閉好不好?好,謝謝,請回...部長最近啊,大陸解放軍東部戰區演習我想請問一下"},{"start":9351.86,"end":9371.232,"text":"我們台灣這邊也在做兵推,那金門馬祖,尤其我關心的是馬祖地區,四個鄉五個島。那麼整體的戰略規劃,兵推的結果是怎麼樣?你能夠告訴我們?還是部長你無法回答,請適當的人員來回答我的問題?"},{"start":9372.375,"end":9394.141,"text":"您講的是指這兩天民間做的兵推還是我們?你們在前兩個禮拜在馬祖做過兵推,就防衛韌性的演習那個是屬於城鎮韌性的那個部分城鎮韌性的部分,我想他是從韌性的角度,由內政部那邊來"},{"start":9396.022,"end":9414.781,"text":"主導有關,當然還有行政院會做協調,然後做一個有關早上會議題式的併推,下午會實作,這個是屬於城市內心的部分現在馬祖的軍力,這兩四動大炮部署在北竿南竿"},{"start":9416.448,"end":9438.643,"text":"那麼他裝填砲彈要一分鐘,最少要一分鐘他準備的時間很久,要半個鐘頭到幾個小時準備的時間,裝填砲彈所以你第一級出去以後,馬上會被鎖定第二級的話可能都打不出去,這個要注意好不好155家大概裝填的時間比較快一點"},{"start":9439.892,"end":9458.385,"text":"那現在就是說在南竿裡面部署的雷霆2000,雷霆2000大概是自走式的,打了就可以跑,這個是比較好。目前它的模組有MK15、MK30、MK45,這個火力大概比較強。那我現在在意的是什麼?"},{"start":9459.495,"end":9475.759,"text":"在意的是當作戰發生的時候,我們台灣這邊國防部對我們整個馬祖有可能與本島隔絕,那我們目前的兵力及戰略,國防部有沒有做一個妥適的規劃,怎麼樣來救援馬祖?"},{"start":9480.485,"end":9501.877,"text":"跟委員報告,我想相關的這些有關我們的防衛作戰的運用,應該不適宜在這個公開的場合來做出我知道,你能夠回答就回答,不能回答當然就不用回答我想應該是不適宜在這裡做一個回答"},{"start":9503.217,"end":9520.349,"text":"目前因為我們也擔心,尤其東引這個島,你也知道我們也部署了雄豐、天宮都在那邊,尤其是雄豐目前中共解放軍海軍的基地,它在寧德那邊是第15支隊在那邊"},{"start":9522.23,"end":9537.167,"text":"他的潛水艇要出來,會經過東引,會看得到他從潛水艇出來攻打台灣的時候,那個地方一定看得到看得到我們雄風如果第一級出去的話,我們面臨的問題東引會不會毀滅因為我們從96年的非戰危機有沒有"},{"start":9541.252,"end":9563.219,"text":"現在中共軍方那邊已經解密了,他們有100個將軍在那邊沉浸一個江津島,幹什麼?針對我們東莒地區東莒地區幹什麼?我們現在也知道,他準備要燒一旦來打這個島然後進在西莒,然後進在南甘,我們現在已經知道了"},{"start":9564.139,"end":9593.374,"text":"所以在東隱這個地方,如果他的潛水艇出沒的話潛水艇出沒的話,讓我們雄風再出去當然對潛水艇是致命的打擊但是你致命的第一擊以後,我們整個東隱島就完蛋了所以你們對東隱地區也好,東隱地區的居民啊到目前為止有沒有收容安置啊,或者防空洞避難啊等等有沒有做類似的一個演習是不是請部長回答"},{"start":9595.486,"end":9619.404,"text":"我想我們關於整個兵力的布置的部分,還是請委員能夠諒解我們的防衛作戰的內容應該還是屬於機敏的,應該沒有辦法民眾暫時的避難疏散,我想整體的部分我們會在陳正任性的時候,會做一個相關的演練"},{"start":9620.365,"end":9647.274,"text":"因為我今天的質詢是提醒部長您注意一下這個兩岸之間現在兵兇戰委他的演習區域不曉得在哪裡當然我也呼籲他們因為彼岸那邊大部分都是我們的親友也都是我們馬祖人的親戚馬祖人的居民大部分也都是從那個地方搬過來的所以希望就是說不要對我們馬祖來動手我常常也呼籲他們"},{"start":9648.214,"end":9673.38,"text":"但是我們在防衛能力的部分,我們還是要有準備,因為到目前為止我所了解的,當然因為這是機敏的問題我所了解的資料當然是遼禄支長非常的清楚,因為常年在那邊,軍人跟我們同島一命在96年的時候,我們子彈都已經發到每一個家戶,18歲以上的我們壯丁幾乎都有步槍都在手上"},{"start":9674.44,"end":9699.076,"text":"但是你們一旦作戰,你們要考慮到我們民眾的問題,不是說阿兵哥在那邊做兵推啊所以民眾任性演習的部分,我希望國防部跟內政部你們也能夠納入好不好部長是,尤其民眾的這個暫時疏散避難的這個部分是屬於我們你們要做妥適的規劃好不好是,我們任性的一環另外就是這個,跟你提一下靶場的事情,北竿靶場"},{"start":9701.819,"end":9720.326,"text":"陸軍常務長曾經也允諾我,這個靶場已經往前目前先暫處的一個措施,也就是說推到75公尺,原來是300公尺我常常講一句話,現在的作戰不是用步槍,現在的作戰都是用火箭跟飛彈"},{"start":9722.347,"end":9739.625,"text":"光打到步槍的時候,以我們的兵力要跟敵軍要對幹的話應該是機會非常的渺茫但是我們暫時的演練,平常的演練一定是必備的啦一定是必備的你目前南竿柱羅靶場"},{"start":9741.24,"end":9762.068,"text":"南竿的兵力比北竿來得多嘛,它的靶場也是個小靶場,也沒有300公尺那你北竿那邊少部的兵力,加上來台灣輪修,然後在營區又輪修剩下兵力所剩無幾啊,是不是所以你這個靶場需要在市中心也就是淡黃的區塊"},{"start":9763.71,"end":9789.073,"text":"來做這麼大規模的一個靶場有必要嗎所以我建議在歷次的總質詢裡面,建議能夠移到遷移到別的地方當然我在這個院會也總質詢了好幾次,都沒有人回答我這個問題不過顧部長謝謝您,我本來說要躺在那邊跟你們對幹但我想自己人嘛,是不是"},{"start":9790.368,"end":9815.871,"text":"總算今天元旦已經把這個風頭,參謀長這個英明的領導把這個風頭已經避過了所以參謀長還跟我講說,再一起到北竿勘察一次我敢去嗎?我說你不要命我會死耶,你知道嗎?那個民間的壓力很大你想想看,部長,我跟你報告過了周邊是什麼?醫院、國中、國小"},{"start":9817.299,"end":9838.476,"text":"長照中心你每天那個子彈在那邊砰砰砰在那邊打如果你是個病人,你是個學生在上課上一半這個在那邊打的話你受得了嗎所以這個遷移是勢在必行也謝謝部長陸軍那邊給我說五年的時間遷移部長能不能明確回答我一下這個問題"},{"start":9840.394,"end":9858.539,"text":"我想我們就如在這裡講的,我們寶廠的隔音牆已經開始施作,就這個遷移的地點我們會盡快來進行探測,然後規劃來盡速完成他現在是什麼?只花了五百萬要做一個隔音牆"},{"start":9859.83,"end":9880.179,"text":"做個隔音牆只做75公尺,本來想說這把牆就75公尺,我沒想到還是一樣,還是300公尺而且那一棟老舊的建築物,我本來說把它拆掉因為我們馬祖已經是光光立現了,你那個很突兀的一個老舊建築物擺在那個地方"},{"start":9880.959,"end":9908.456,"text":"事不像影響到我們的觀光,也影響到我們市區的安全部長能不能在這個部分你們從長計議做一個改善?隔音牆的部分我再請他們入軍做個評估有關其他地點的探勘跟相關的規劃我們再來部長能不能請入軍在一個月之內再向我做一次簡報可以嗎?"},{"start":9910.279,"end":9920.936,"text":"是,我想到委員那邊跟委員請教,我想陸軍應該會來做我的問政,我一直在挺國防部,我一直都是挺軍人的"},{"start":9921.727,"end":9940.616,"text":"我想部長您到任沒多久,我想所有的軍人他們都了然於胸我對軍人是非常支持的,我的父親也是軍人,也是陸關畢業的我以前從小就住在眷村,耳濡目染,我對軍人的尊敬無以復加"},{"start":9941.676,"end":9966.836,"text":"所以最近提出來什麼阿兵哥要優先等等,我們馬哈祖的軍人也提出來說他們在馬哈祖坐船、坐飛機能不能也優先因為馬哈祖的位置真的是非常少,飛機的定位、船的定位非常的少這一點我也請縣政府這邊去做研究部長你對軍人也拜託多照顧一下好不好是"},{"start":9968.416,"end":9995.393,"text":"最後一個問題就是金門大展已經開放了,開放觀光了馬祖這邊高登我數過去大概不到多少人因為精敏資料,我也不方便在這邊跟你報告但是我知道是多少人那你人數非常有限有沒有機會高登能夠開放觀光像比照大展的模式能不能做一個研究"},{"start":9998.863,"end":10023.677,"text":"報告這個案子馬防部他也做過評估因為高登他的地理條件和大膽其實也不太相同那馬防部初步的評估是如果開放觀光還是有一些對軍事安全上潛在的威脅那也在2月16號有把相關的評估報告有含文到這個縣府去那後續我們會再因應整個環境上的"},{"start":10025.298,"end":10049.471,"text":"實際的狀況隨時來做一些相關的判斷參謀長,據我的了解高登的彼岸是連江、黃崎、台陸、北郊最接近我們是北郊跟台陸那你沒有什麼兵力了福州軍區撤銷以後變成東部戰區兵力不多"},{"start":10050.899,"end":10053.555,"text":"兵力不多,對我們高登島的威脅,而且他對馬祖"},{"start":10055.277,"end":10081.403,"text":"敵意也沒那麼強啦,我說實在話敵意沒那麼強因為兩岸互動的非常的好,尤其民間我們互動的非常好所以打我們的機會,除了政治上的意涵我想在軍事上是毫無意義的我評估工黨馬祖的機率,我們如果沒有用飛彈火箭去攻擊人家大概暫時發生的可能性,我個人的評估應該是蠻小的"},{"start":10083.664,"end":10111.185,"text":"所以在這個時間點,我覺得高登如果適時的開放其實你們很多的坑道、部隊你看以前在北竿、南竿有100個傘兵坑的據點也就機槍連等等這都沒有啦,現在剩一個到兩個據點剩一個到兩個那你這樣已經不敷防衛的需求了對不起你如果能夠"},{"start":10112.421,"end":10141.216,"text":"能夠做一個觀光在戰時的時候這些據點也不會荒廢嘛是不是部隊進入據點馬上就可以作戰啦這對軍方來講也是好事啊你們不能夠從觀光的這個方向去考慮這個問題嗎是不是一旦他們攻打過來南竿北竿有兵力能夠支援高登嗎也支援不了啊也支援不了啊那你不如開放觀光是不是老百姓在有觀光客在那個島上"},{"start":10142.349,"end":10169.724,"text":"他們解放軍也不會輕易的發射火箭或是發射炮彈來打嘛是不是現在都是用火箭啦我剛才講的兩四棟大炮,155加炮因為莊田的速度,還有目前衛星的監測這種的火力都已經慢慢要淘汰了所以當然希望你們在防衛任性的部分對馬祖的部署希望能夠加強而且要注意好不好,部長"},{"start":10170.748,"end":10194.028,"text":"那個當然今天最重要的還是一個是飛機啦,經濟能夠支援我們還有這個大大腦開放的問題,好不好還有這個靶場的問題,希望部長能夠用心回去的時候能夠幫我們想一想辦法能夠做一些改善跟解決,部長可以嗎?我會請他們來進行演繹,再跟我報告好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席謝謝陳委員,部長請回"},{"start":10198.942,"end":10204.955,"text":"接下來有請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在接下來有請鍾嘉斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":10219.864,"end":10238.781,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政務機關所長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請顧部長 還有黃副參謀總長執行官 以及中科院的李中將 李院長有請部長 還有處長 謝謝 還有院長 謝謝所有中委"},{"start":10240.576,"end":10251.584,"text":"部長好那麼我們副參謀長長好久不見還有我們的李院長好那今天呢我們來談的就是最近很紅的無人載具來 我們想看"},{"start":10252.745,"end":10275.877,"text":"最近 今天到今天為止 還在辦一個民間自辦的台海兵推結果媒體的報紙呢 有兩種評價一個是說 哎呀 這個美日台重大兵推 落慘結果呢 台灣組拿不出辦法出來另外一個是 台海兵推 那個中共挑釁 我們按兵不動請問 這個有 部長知道這個兵推嗎有在關注嗎"},{"start":10279.076,"end":10295.205,"text":"我想我們了解有民間這樣辦的一個那你也了解有這三個國家的一些退役的將領來參加吧當然相關的訊息有掌握那你覺得他們這樣的兵推是不是有助於全民對於我們戰略模擬的一個認知"},{"start":10296.623,"end":10317.606,"text":"我想相關的這個民間的兵推,自辦的兵推,我們在他們兵推結束之後,我們會索取相關的資料,都會納入我們的參考是的,我想部長這樣非常開明,因為國防不是只有,就像您說的,不是只有職業軍人的事情,不是國防部的事情,是全民都要來關注,是不是?"},{"start":10318.829,"end":10328.633,"text":"是 我想大家都關心國航是一件好事好 最近在上週最熱門的就是烏克蘭的豬網行動部長你認為它是一個敵後滲透攻擊還是一個戰場的對敵反制我想這個應該顯示就是說無人機的這個運用在烏克蘭戰爭裡面顯示它已經產生了一些"},{"start":10344.554,"end":10365.758,"text":"他對其他國家的參考應該是已經起了一些關鍵性的思維的轉換然後整個作戰的思維都值得我們來加以參佐簡單用兩個話這個會造成的是說台灣可以用無人機驅逐中國還是中國可以用無人機來恐攻台灣你覺得哪一個可能性比較大"},{"start":10372.204,"end":10383.088,"text":"我看的是一身冷汗,你可能不變膽,有人看的,哇,烏克蘭好啊,以小即大,但是我看的是剛好相反,我覺得台灣更容易陷入這樣的一個敵後的滲透攻擊,你認為呢?"},{"start":10385.064,"end":10400.783,"text":"我想對於共軍各型無人機的一些研製跟應用的這個狀況,我們都要納入評估。那我們延續之後,我們對於可能的威脅,我們都有掌握。"},{"start":10404.046,"end":10426.467,"text":"不但是要掌握還要進行研析然後要加以應對其實這個無人機的生產攻擊它會開始走向都市游擊對話這是一個媒體的報導用3D列印就可以幫一個恐怖組織去投射彈藥這邊也提到了中國本身也開始設置了一個無人機的專修室換言之說今天所謂的俗稱過去稱的第五重對照潛伏到台灣來"},{"start":10427.228,"end":10435.419,"text":"以台灣現有的開放民間的材料腐蝕及得只要有人員進來他就可以自行組裝很多不需要大型的軍武工廠是不是這樣子很有可能啊他在3D列印在你台灣這邊做啦"},{"start":10445.154,"end":10462.839,"text":"跟委員報告就是說我想對於這樣子的一個無人機的整個的運用依照這個烏克蘭之前發動的它必須要花費相當長的一個時間對潛伏很久籌劃很久來做相關的一個沒有錯它需要相當的潛伏跟運量"},{"start":10463.619,"end":10479.541,"text":"物質的調度人員的安排然後來一個奇襲的攻擊對不對所以我們有相當程度的掌握我想我們會來也要來緩緩這樣子的一個狀況但是以台灣目前的情況要製造無人機不成問題彈藥比較難取得"},{"start":10481.041,"end":10506.3,"text":"所以這種情況之下 如果敵方要做敵後的滲透攻擊他首先的就是彈藥拿來取得是我們軍品彈藥的防竊或者說杜絕走私製造就變得很重要軍品彈藥防竊是國防部責務旁帶杜絕走私製造這個就需要其他行政部門包括海巡 包括警方的配合請問國防部有沒有思考到這個部分對於在他們潛入到台灣來取得在民間取得爆裂物的這個可能性有沒有辦法去防堵"},{"start":10507.04,"end":10521.629,"text":"有沒有做一個這樣的管理跟思維就我們現在的槍花彈藥刀血管制條例的這個管制上來講的話彈藥的生產製造尤其火工部門的話都是軍備局跟工科院才可以製造嘛所以它的防線很重要嘛"},{"start":10522.469,"end":10550.241,"text":"怕被人家偷走嘛好萊塢的電影都是去偷軍火來幹恐怖攻擊嘛對不對也就是說我們民間並沒有這樣子的一個彈藥的囤儲是所以說未來的軍品彈藥防竊非常重要避免被對後做敵後滲透攻擊的時候拿來取材好往下看所以在另外我們面對這個機敏設施關鍵設施預防斬首擊殺無人機我們要軟硬兼施嘛軟殺跟硬殺嘛但是軟殺跟硬殺現在發生一個問題了光纖導引的無人機它沒辦法軟殺怎麼辦"},{"start":10552.27,"end":10577.524,"text":"我們有沒有做各種的毛與頓的砂盤推演不可能像美軍一樣為了打兩百美元的無人機用三百萬美元的飛彈去打嘛不可能嘛反制無人機的這個部分現在當然一方面進展的也相當快就是說如同委員在這邊有提到的這個軟砂的部分硬砂的部分硬砂的部分當然還有包括有這個煉炮還有這個雷射等等的這些高"},{"start":10580.786,"end":10602.257,"text":"高科技的這種進步,現在都在我們密注關注的範圍,也在我們要努力來籌貨的部分,所以反制無人機確實是我們現在建軍的一個重點項目之一。就有人說他用光鮮的,因為光鮮很貴,光鮮的無人機來跟你做群攻不划算,他用光鮮的把你的耳目先打掉。"},{"start":10602.917,"end":10627.113,"text":"讓你的軟沙或讓你的硬沙沒有辦法去找到目標但是光線也有一定的距離的限制所以很怕他的敵後陣頭攻擊我們怕的就是這一點他這個部分就是他要到底的作戰地境所以就是說我們現在在說是不是要有一個無人機載具的谷土防衛學院這樣的一個民間智庫如果有人在推動這樣的民間智庫國防部的態度是怎麼樣是支持還是不樂見"},{"start":10628.696,"end":10655.046,"text":"我想無人載具的部分我們整個是我們軍民整合現在裡面重要的一環所以我們不只是我們中科院也好軍備局也好那我們現在不但要釋出這個相關的這個關鍵的一些技術給到民間那我們也希望跟民間一起來合作那最重要當然就是說我們要建立我們這個相關的無人載具的一個自准能量"},{"start":10655.646,"end":10677.115,"text":"那另外也要引進相關不同的科技來進行這個迭代創新因為現在不只是無人機還有無人艇然後剩下水下的無人載具這個都可能是在隨著這樣子的一個科技的進步那麼形成這樣一定的戰力之後納入我們籌購的範圍之後可以應用成為我們作戰運用"},{"start":10681.176,"end":10706.799,"text":"我想這裡要提醒部長跟各位這個國防重要的領導人其實呢 無人機不是只是一個裝備 也不是一個科技它會整個顛覆我們的戰法跟戰術也就是說 就跟我們的前膛槍改為有後方裝彈之後整個部邊的陣列就不一樣了所以這個部分不能只是有裝備科技的延伸還要有整個使用思維的改變那這點我是跟部長做這樣的建議"},{"start":10707.74,"end":10727.138,"text":"無人機確實是有部署靈活還有一個戰術運用的彈性甚至有通訊中繼等等這樣子的一些功能特性所以它確實是對戰力裡面現在重要的一環所以不是只有裝備跟科技的研發而已還有包括運用的技巧所以現在除了這個之外我們軍品採購的思維也要改變我們過去這幾年來"},{"start":10732.242,"end":10744.355,"text":"立法院支持我們國防預算編了很多購置無人機無人載具的預算但是這個買來是當作編裝的裝備使用但是編裝的裝備你知道嗎阿兵哥他是敢去動嗎掉一下下來就幾十萬幾百萬欸幾百萬欸所以也就是說我們現在採購的思維應該把訓練教育"},{"start":10751.662,"end":10775.361,"text":"跟未來的戰備應用做兩套的思維也就是說就像我們空軍一樣不可能一來的飛官就飛直接的一個第一線戰機他一定有教練機也一定有其他的前置的訓練所以其實要增加無人機的採購規模委外的教育訓練這一塊可以提供民間很大的商機換言之我來接受你軍方要委託的無人機的飛手訓練飛機我提供"},{"start":10777.563,"end":10799.09,"text":"摔壞了我負責我甚至可以找保險不要列入我們軍品當中的品項是要做維護的拿來打仗的是一個拿來訓練的是一個那這個部分呢可以大量的擴充我們軍用商規的無人機的生產也就是說我們軍事採購的那些編制書就有限嘛沒有打仗你沒有損耗你不會增加但是我們的教育訓練是經常會有損耗的"},{"start":10800.49,"end":10822.535,"text":"所以把教育訓練外包出去之後它的損耗自然會形成一個供應鏈下一個我們來看一下所以本土的供應鏈去紅供應鏈一定要有足夠的市場規模我之前對於軍兵採購不斷的提出如果我們沒有足夠的採購規模我們的廠商我們的國人我們的技術做得到但他不會投資就像拿光電球kimbo來說好了"},{"start":10822.995,"end":10838.687,"text":"目前我們無人機偵測最重要的光電球哪個地方生產最好東歐生產最好台灣要不要投入產線來製造做得到但是呢沒有那個量你沒有一年一千顆的量你投資那個產線不划算但是國防部有辦法每年買一千組嗎"},{"start":10839.608,"end":10859.654,"text":"不可能所以要對外去擴充這個無人機的市場對內我們要創造我們軍用商規無人機的使用機會不是打仗才來用教育訓練演習就來用那這些裝備你可以用怎樣用租賃的用教育服務租賃的不是用購買的這樣才能擴大我們無人機供應商的市場部長您同不同意"},{"start":10860.772,"end":10886.207,"text":"跟委員報告,現在有好幾個,您剛剛問的問題有好幾個層次,第一個是無人機的訓練這個部分我們本來就已經有出街的,我們運用一些小型損耗力高的這些無人機來進行出街的一個訓練然後進而再進階,所以我們陸軍成立無人機訓練中心,海軍陸戰隊事實上也有訓練中心,這是一塊另外擴大這個本土的供應鏈的這個部分,就是我們現在正在進行的,也就是說"},{"start":10886.927,"end":10899.253,"text":"要如何達到拳擊飛鴻這樣的一個概念的話包括整個不管是控制的單元或者是通訊的單元相關的這些晶片或者馬達還有電池等等這些的話我想真正能夠在地生產這個就是我們現在的目標我想現在要這個"},{"start":10913.879,"end":10933.308,"text":"從院裡面到國安部然後到這個大家在努力的事就這樣子事實上中間也提出一個共版的一個通用共版的一個無人機也就是說不只是軍方民間民間有一個共版的一個架構那麼到了戰時的時候呢我們加裝我們所需要的這一個"},{"start":10934.508,"end":10960.336,"text":"這個軟體進去以後就可以做一個軍用所以把這個生產的能量放入在民間然後讓民間有一個自主的能量的產生這是我們現在正在大體研究的方向然後另外當然要打入國際的供應鏈那這個部分我想跟其他一個周邊的國家都有相當的共識但是詳細的情形可能不便加以說明部長其實您講得很完整但我只有一個提醒"},{"start":10961.036,"end":10981.037,"text":"因為無人採取這個很特殊,它不是一個軍備的傳統軍備需要由軍火工廠來生產,它是一個軍用可以商規,商規也可以商用所以有這麼多的民間部門,有工業技術研究院,技術中心,有傳播研究中心,有其他大專院校現在我所知道有三所國立大學,就是我們分別成立的三個研發中心"},{"start":10981.937,"end":11005.367,"text":"這些都可以來協助商用軍規的無人機的研發當然它也有它商用的市場所以無人機的研發不一定要由中科院來我再強調一次其他的飛彈那個民間沒有在用飛彈的啦但是無人機民間用的很多所以軍用商規的無人機其實可以有第二條的一個研發的一個機構所以我希望部長這邊能夠跟行政院反映我們來籌組一個無人載具的研發中心來開發這種商規的無人機的應用"},{"start":11011.61,"end":11014.493,"text":"這也有助於我們減輕我們中科院的負荷您同不同意"},{"start":11015.276,"end":11043.107,"text":"所以我跟委員報告其實你講說飛彈我們民間沒有事實上中科院在生產這個飛彈的過程當中也跟民間有很多非常的合作民間沒有人在用飛彈啊台積電不會拿飛彈來打因為您講的是一個最後系統或者是一個裝備的成品但我們看的不是這樣子而是看的是一個生態鏈的一個建構那這個飛彈的部分現在當然就是說你最後火工部門還是要交到這個中科院的生產"},{"start":11043.527,"end":11061.54,"text":"中間現在有一些關鍵技術也要釋放給民間,讓民間也能夠做所以無人機部分當然是裡面的重要的一環,因為逐漸的無人機的發展是相當的日循日益所以這個部分除了火工部門之外,其他一些特別關鍵的元件,這個部分當然要建立在民間嘛"},{"start":11061.86,"end":11080.635,"text":"所以我們從中國的例子就是因為無人機大疆全國世界的無人機市場大疆佔了絕大部分所以大疆的在初期戰爭被大量來改裝表示什麼商用的商規的都很好用所以呢有民間強大的製造產能我們軍方要使用就選擇餘地很多我的意見就是說要有民間的產能不是啦關鍵就在關鍵元件啦譬如說電池譬如說這些其實您說的關鍵電池馬達這個我們的載體的部分都OK"},{"start":11090.462,"end":11117.421,"text":"其實籌載的部分比較傷腦筋籌載的光電球傳輸的晶片通訊的晶片這些訊號的防害這個都是問題那是軍規的部分沒有沒有現在就是說你先用商規的部分來進行那軍規的部分呢我們會也失望一定的量人好那最後呢到了一定的時候我們再擴充我想這個部分就可以來建構了好啦因為主委已經站起來往上一列最後那個其實為什麼要一個研發中心往上就是所謂的通信協定"},{"start":11118.778,"end":11131.046,"text":"產品的規格標準這些東西才是需要一個研發中心的最後兩個訴求建於無人載具及我們戰法的進步迅速請針對推動成立明天智庫 阻擇無人載具的國土防衛來提出評估報告這就提報告而已喔"},{"start":11134.588,"end":11162.555,"text":"另外呢就以擴大採購無人機的訓練服務並且整合促成一個研發中心也請你們提個報告來評估一下可以嗎跟委員報告事實上這個行政院已經在主責了那很好啊你們就把行政院主責的內容可不可以分享一份給我們看對如果您需要的話因為這是由副院長在主責的部分是如果您想要了解的話就我們就將相關我們有參與的部分是行政院整個在主責就跟行政院索取那就國防部提供"},{"start":11162.995,"end":11176.101,"text":"是 好 謝謝也謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝嘉賓委員 這個部長請回接下來有請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在接下來有請翁曉琳委員上台質詢有請部長"},{"start":11191.175,"end":11193.156,"text":"還有通信電子資訊參謀次長以及資通電軍指揮部的參謀長周少將應該是周少將好"},{"start":11217.666,"end":11221.427,"text":"部長好 那麼我在這個剛剛在準備質詢稿的過程當中呢就看到國台辦其實剛剛又發布了一個新聞他們再度強調他們會對於台灣的自通電軍祭出三項懲戒強調絕不輕重我想部長你應該很清楚知道在前陣子"},{"start":11243.915,"end":11249.319,"text":"中共他們這裡有發布針對我們臺灣的資通電軍的人員有20位發布了這個懸賞通告 懸賞公告那麼我想其實這一段時間裡面那麼可以知道就是大陸基本上他們針對我們現在資通電軍裡面的一些情資是掌握的"},{"start":11268.792,"end":11288.611,"text":"那麼不僅他們有立案 從去年 當時他們就有立案 要偵查三個人那麼在今年的時候呢 其實又陸陸續續公佈就是所謂的我們資通電軍的成員 他們的肖像姓名以及甚至身份證字號那麼在這裡呢 我想請問部長 你有閱讀過"},{"start":11293.085,"end":11309.559,"text":"這個大陸的國家電腦病毒應急處理中心所發布的皮膚漢素的這份報告嗎?呃,是不是請中間來說明一下?好。很好,呃,中間跟你們報告。這個部分報告內容我們有看過。"},{"start":11310.669,"end":11335.717,"text":"所以這個周首長您看過您看過這份報告在這個報告書當中所爐列的有關於資通電這個指揮部的相關的位置人員那麼以及這個這個首長他們基本上都有詳列身份的字號姓名以及這個相關的資訊就這個部分來說我們這份"},{"start":11340.816,"end":11341.959,"text":"裡面的資料是否屬實"},{"start":11344.605,"end":11372.504,"text":"我想在這個部分或許您方便作答的話您就答方便的話也無所謂我想我們在之前的委員都在過程當中已經說明了這個網路資料拼湊而來的我想我們沒有辦法來有任何進一步的評論那也跟委員做一個報告我們會案前功法相關的規定來建立這一個對於人員的相關的保護的機制好"},{"start":11372.984,"end":11395.186,"text":"那么在这份资料里面,因为他详载了有关于自通电军的指挥部等等的这些地点,那么还有就是我们现在的指挥官,在这份书里面有指挥官,这个参谋长,副参谋长等等,所以请问参谋长您看过这份报告书吗?"},{"start":11396.267,"end":11410.397,"text":"有看過,那這個資料目前所呈現的是舊的資料是,您知道您的大名也在裡面嗎?知道您有沒有感受到就是說,你會不會懷疑為什麼這份資料會洩漏出去?"},{"start":11411.457,"end":11437.29,"text":"就個人的研判是在相關的這個之前個人的臉書或是一般可能在同仁有可能退伍的求職網這些的資料您剛剛有提到譬如說像參謀長的部分我覺得這個是一個公開的一個資訊它並沒有因為有一些一定階層它是屬於公開的這個資訊所以"},{"start":11439.551,"end":11465.383,"text":"可是公開資訊應該不包括身份證字號吧出生年月日我想這些資訊其實是鉅細靡遺我跟部長報告就是我看到這份報告書之後我其實心裡面很擔心因為我覺得我們的國軍電修之通電軍裡面的這些夥伴們不管是軍職或是約聘僱人員他們的資訊"},{"start":11467.193,"end":11488.799,"text":"是公開的如果說裡面有些資訊可能是老舊的或是可能根本不存在沒有關係但是假設這些裡面有相當高程度是屬實的更何況已經看到了參謀長的您的個資都在裡面這真的讓我感到很驚訝的是我們這麼重要的這個"},{"start":11491.061,"end":11498.057,"text":"軍中的這樣的一個自動電軍的指揮部裡面怎麼可能會有這麼多的訊息會是外露"},{"start":11499.943,"end":11521.552,"text":"那我們也曉得其實從去年其實就有新聞有說當時國防部政風是讓情報員用本名申報財產當時也造成一些資料外洩那麼更早之前其實我們的健保資料也都有外洩那麼所以呢其實這些案子到目前為止都還沒有查到一個水落石出也不知道說這些資料從哪裡洩露的"},{"start":11524.033,"end":11543.169,"text":"所以有關於我們軍中人員的這個各自的保護本身是認為非常的重要那麼請問現在國防部對於相關的國防或情報資料尤其是對於人員各自外系有沒有什麼樣的防堵措施我想主要還是你們有沒有檢討"},{"start":11544.409,"end":11570.127,"text":"對我想我們外部各自的管控我們應該要繼續來加強那內部的這個黨制的稽查我們要加強然後相關的這一個保護的機制我們也要來進行好吧我聽了部長講我覺得那都是感覺還蠻空的我現在就回到法治層面來看依照情報工作法裡面的規定那麼資通電軍指揮部看起來應該是屬於我們這邊講的情報機關是吧"},{"start":11574.841,"end":11598.42,"text":"所以我們是屬於適同情報機關適同情報機關因為在你們主管國家情報事項範圍內我現在問的比較general就是說是那麼在這個資通電軍指揮部裡面是不是所有的人員都是適同情報人員還是說你們中間也是只有少部分的人還是屬於我們情報工作法裡面所規範的情報人員應該是限於那個"},{"start":11603.476,"end":11631.689,"text":"包委員這個部分是限於這個從事網路相關工作的同仁所以並不是所有的同仁那麼但是呢大家接下來看情報協助人員其實也是受到情報工作法裡面的規範那麼在這次因為我們有看到其實在這份報告書裡面這個皮膚漢書的報告書裡面他們也有揭露一些支持這個我們自動電機指揮部裡面的相關的公司"},{"start":11632.589,"end":11660.983,"text":"机关那就现在的这些被揭露的这些公司或是机关其实因为这也涉及到就是他们未来可能以后也很难在这个可能跟大陆做生意或者是说他们可能已经被威胁心生恐惧以后也不敢做国防部的生意了就是说有关于像这种长期支援支持国防部的这些公司"},{"start":11662.044,"end":11663.975,"text":"那麼我們有沒有一些什麼保護的措施"},{"start":11665.1,"end":11694.515,"text":"就除了我們講的人員之外來我們看一下這個下面這次在皮膚漢數裡面的報告裡面講台灣自通電軍支撐單位的情況包含神通、金城、序聊、登峰數位科技以至於中山科學研究院都在他們這份報告書裡面已經揭露的說這些都是支持台灣自通電軍的公司"},{"start":11694.895,"end":11710.85,"text":"我想這是屬於公開招標的一個範圍跟你報告一下這個部分這些公司都是我們公開招標針對一般一般沒有敏感機敏性的這些範疇領域的這些作業的公司"},{"start":11711.781,"end":11732.946,"text":"是但是因為他們現在已經被列入在可能會被大陸懲治的對象那麼我想基本上我們當然是希望能夠全力的支持我們台灣的資通電機指揮部然後以及保護所有的工作同仁那以及可能這個支持資通電機指揮部的相關資訊系統設備公司可是呢其實他們現在可能所受到的"},{"start":11741.728,"end":11764.525,"text":"潛在的損失還不知道因為已經被點名了就像我們現在看到的這些人員不管他們是不是有這批人但是萬一真的事後又有很多的個資被洩漏出去那麼對於這些個資洩漏出去我們在《現在情報工作法》裡面有沒有對於這些人員的個資洩漏有給予他們一定的損失補償"},{"start":11767.029,"end":11791.029,"text":"跟委員報告 我想您現在所提的都是中國對我們進行這樣的一個相關的心理戰來造成我們的一些希望來動搖我們的軍事時期我想我們還是會持續堅持這個我們應該有的這個努力來確保國家安全您這樣子一直在"},{"start":11792.63,"end":11813.402,"text":"我現在是說我希望這報告書裡面的都不是事實那我只是說從一個很基本的很general的角度來看這件事情因為在我們情報工作法裡面其實它的規範基本上可以分兩階段一個是前端的風險管理一個是後端的危機處理但是我們看一下第24條的規定"},{"start":11815.728,"end":11833.448,"text":"在我们第二十四条规定里面万一情报人员他的省的身份揭露或是在受工作受到伤有受伤失能死亡这里面给予的抚恤的补偿是指他们在境外发生这边没有涉及到就是说万一他们的个资泄露"},{"start":11834.571,"end":11862.011,"text":"的情況之下 如果是我們剛剛講資通電軍指揮部裡面相關人員他們也是同事情報人員但他們現在的個資可能有被洩露他們的隱私受到侵害那麼在我們現行法裡面有沒有什麼機制是可以去保護他們的或是給予他們一定的損失補償因為很可能這些人以後找不到工作"},{"start":11864.884,"end":11871.392,"text":"就是在現行制度上面我想請問蔡某長你們過去有研究相關的人員的保護嗎"},{"start":11872.791,"end":11900.334,"text":"我想相關的這個國軍在從事相關的機敏業務的時候都會有這個他們應該要理解我們要做一個風險的一個管控跟管理這是應該的那至於委員提到了這個勤工法的相關規定他必須是要治受傷失能或死亡嗎而且要在境外現在我們的問題不管在境外或境內都必須要治受傷失能或死亡啊"},{"start":11901.75,"end":11918.12,"text":"對所以我就說這就是現行規定看起來沒有辦法涵蓋到如果在境內因為涉及到個資的洩漏然後影響到他的行動自由隱私權這些問題我們現在的法律制度上面有沒有哪一塊是可以去"},{"start":11919.281,"end":11943.886,"text":"保護 或者是給予這些受到損害的情報人員 給他們一定的補償跟委員報告 我想這個個資的外洩所造成的情況也不是只有今天這宗電競這個案子所有國軍相關的 還有所有其他的人員都會有這樣子的一個狀況所以這個如果說你要認為要檢討的話 那應該要做通販性的檢討"},{"start":11946.827,"end":11960.297,"text":"所以國防部過去一直都沒有針對這個部分做通盤性檢討嗎?我想一般的如果說不涉及到情報工作的各自外線那可能他有另外一個比較簡單的處理方式可是這件事情很嚴重"},{"start":11961.28,"end":11989.553,"text":"因為它已經涉及到就是可能已經類似等同於情報業務情報工作的人員的各自外泄但是我們看起來我們現在沒有任何的法規可以處理然後更何況說我們現在講的情報協助情報工作人員它的範圍還只是限定在自然人但是不要忘記了我們現在看到很多的資通訊的設備公司等等都一一的被點名出來了"},{"start":11991.277,"end":12008.99,"text":"那他們所提供的服務所提供的這些會不會也是廣泛來說可能也是屬於協助情報工作那這些公司他們未來可能會受到的這個損失要由誰來承擔他們自己就吸收嗎"},{"start":12012.213,"end":12037.285,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們會依據情報公眾法的規定來採取一些身份隱匿跟掩護的相關措施那這個部分已經在建立應該就會盡快來完成來做這些相關的這個保護的隱匿跟掩護的這個機制好我最後再講一句話就是說我其實在看這份報告書的時候我真的是心裡面是真的非常擔心我們的這個"},{"start":12041.435,"end":12068.242,"text":"自通電軍指揮部裡面的這些人員們他們的安危那麼我本來也不願意相信說是裡面的可能一些內容是屬實的但是當我發現我們去看Google馬上Google這個相關的處所照片是一致的然後甚至今天也看到參謀長您的身份資料都在裡面對那我們國家到底給這些自通電軍弟兄們我們有沒有一個充足的保護"},{"start":12069.844,"end":12088.156,"text":"然後還有一些支援的公司也一一被點名出來那未來他們所受到的營業上這個相關的損失要由誰來來負負擔還是說這些公司他們就自行吸收了那最後呢因為剛剛部長講說你們有針對現在國軍的各自外洩有在進行研析了嗎或者是說我今天也希望就是國防部是不是可以兩個禮拜之內給我一份你們對於"},{"start":12101.605,"end":12120.551,"text":"這個確保這個國軍人員的各自外泄的防堵機制以及我剛剛講的針對這個在情報工作法裡面有關於這個情報人員的各自外泄到底是不是用情報工作法裡面的相關手勢補償如果沒有的話未來你們要怎麼檢討要怎麼樣提出相關的補償機制可以請部長兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告嗎"},{"start":12128.272,"end":12148.897,"text":"我們再請鍾建軍再跟委員聯絡好不好好 那我希望就是兩個禮拜之內因為這個應該你們之前早就都有study的這個議題那請兩個禮拜之內給我相關的報告好 謝謝謝謝溫委員那部長請回接下來我們有請陳冠廷委員上台質詢"},{"start":12175.072,"end":12177.516,"text":"來 趙委員我們請部長我請部長 謝謝跟戰略規劃是市長請市長 謝謝好 陳委員好部長好"},{"start":12188.786,"end":12217.963,"text":"部長其實最近有很多外媒不斷地在針對我們的無人載具的配置跟我們的戰略目標來做討論我想請教一下因為我們現在不是只是為了中國有所以我們也要有中國有無人機中國有大型的無人機中國的海面上的無人載具具備垂直的發射飛彈的能力所以我們也要有應該不是這樣子的戰略吧"},{"start":12218.243,"end":12240.062,"text":"我們現在的作戰想定我們的戰略目標是什麼?我們的無人載具作戰的構想,我們的主要的戰略目標是什麼?我想我們無人機作戰的這個運用參考這個俄武戰爭的經驗的實力跟我想已經三軍部隊有在執行這個我們整個防衛作戰兵力結構調整的"},{"start":12241.687,"end":12250.387,"text":"一個計畫,那我們會建置無人機鑽的部隊部隊也會有無人機的配置,朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":12251.365,"end":12278.877,"text":"我剛剛講戰略目標是說是以防守為主來去拒止中國的登陸為主還是有主要是要用什麼樣的方式來去確保說我們不被登陸這樣是一個戰略目標那剛才部長你提到的是說我們會全面檢討全面努力這個不是戰略目標這沒有回答到我的問題我們是不是請這一個司長來簡單的回答一下我不認為我們應該要在這個地方回答這樣子你認為戰略它不應該"},{"start":12281.519,"end":12293.973,"text":"跟國民來去做透視的因為無人機的應用我認為應該是在作戰層級跟戰術層級是這樣子喔那所以說我們各國的這些將領在對無人機的戰略表達他們的看法的時候"},{"start":12295.595,"end":12311.813,"text":"因為戰略成績是一個我們整個全軍的這個防衛作戰的計畫來做一個整體的構想無人機的應用是屬於在這個整體的防衛構想之下在作戰成績跟戰術成績裡面的運用"},{"start":12314.403,"end":12336.624,"text":"OK好部長如果你覺得這樣子的回答有你滿意的話那我尊重你我們現在請這個市長我們的戰略的目標無人載具的戰略目標是什麼我剛剛已經回答了你回答什麼我回答了就是說無人機的運用是屬於作戰成績跟戰術成績啊你回答說你無人機的戰術執行那你一定要請站位司司長回答"},{"start":12340.054,"end":12358.355,"text":"我們整個無人機的運用都是在我們總統指導的從神賀祖多於巨子的這個概念之下來做運用那在我們整個規劃裡面他所使用的面向當然是很多但是因為我們引進無人機現在處於起步階段"},{"start":12359.056,"end":12375.142,"text":"所以就我們能夠獲得的部分我們會依照我們建軍規劃的期程納入後續兵力整建的項目同時也依照這些無人機的獲得配合參謀本部這邊來修正它未來整個作戰運用"},{"start":12376.596,"end":12399.698,"text":"好 謝謝市長我剛剛講那麼多就是說我們希望無人載具它能夠在假設有台海衝突的時候它要扮演怎麼樣的句子我們的目標是他們的登陸艦嗎我們的目標是防止他們的兩棲的這個進攻我們的這些可能登陸的地方嗎主要是做偵測嗎還是做更多的比方說我們可以投入更多的資源在我們的自殺型的無人艦"},{"start":12400.879,"end":12429.242,"text":"或者是這個無人機等等就是說我們大概有一個戰略上面的目標所以剛才市長你說從陳鶴祖等等的跟委員報告您講的這些都在我們的作戰計畫當中那我認為我們這些相關的作戰計畫的運用並不適宜在這個公開場合去討論我們對無人機的運用我們有跟你講說要把計畫來解開你的計畫對 但事實上無人機運用就屬於這個問題是所有外媒都會問我們的我們的目的是什麼 比方說在"},{"start":12430.884,"end":12448.88,"text":"烏克蘭的這些軍方他們在進入外美的時候他們說我們希望在黑海能夠拒止他們用不對稱的作戰的方式等等這些都是戰略上簡單簡單二要的跟大家講嘛所以我們的目的是說我們當然會藉無人機的部署的靈活戰術的彈性跟通訊中心等等這些特性來進行精準的攻擊來發揮不對稱的戰力嘛"},{"start":12451.974,"end":12477.837,"text":"我們來請教一下中科院的6月78號我們在蘇澳外海舉辦的水面無人載具關於新聞媒體我們有提到是比武大賽我想請教院長我們這次的為什麼我們要決定邀請的對象是什麼樣的方式去是公開的邀請所有能夠參與的人都來一起參與是公開邀請"},{"start":12478.237,"end":12506.338,"text":"公開邀請所以說是全面性就是讓只要具備資格的廠商就能夠來參加甚至是能夠來展示嗎是的包含了造船的還有通訊的還有控制軟體的透過這樣子的目的我們的中科院的這個比武大戰的目的是什麼是希望未來有更多的民間的產業能夠進入投資然後來去生產更多這樣子的無人艦這是說一個拋磚引玉的動作嗎我們的目的是什麼我們這一次的中科院的這個"},{"start":12506.778,"end":12527.874,"text":"這個目的應該分成兩個層面第一個層面是對我們自己還有工部門的人而言讓大家都了解整個無人載具技術進步到什麼樣的程度未來的潛能在哪裡第二個是對於這些廠商提供給他們一個展示個人研發成果或是自己食品技術的一個展示的舞台"},{"start":12528.459,"end":12545.909,"text":"但是院長我想請教一下就是我們的需求是不是要先把它開出去這樣子未來能夠來自民間產業可能不是這種中大型的這些企業它能夠有一個先配合我們的需求就是先有這一個我們要把這個supply請他們做出來我們要有底面才會有supply因為這個"},{"start":12546.829,"end":12566.963,"text":"無人載具在海面上面的這些部署其實很多是有軍用面向的所以如果我們的spec沒有我們的spec是開得很高或開得非常的困難的話或許我們會得到很優良的這些無人的船艦但是可能它的量就沒辦法達到我們的目的所以說我們的戰略的方向是說我們是要做聚職"},{"start":12567.703,"end":12584.676,"text":"是在海面上拒止還是做偵測還有各個不同的面向讓我們的產業才能夠有它足夠的scale就是一切嘛你沒有量的話你沒有辦法你只有值的話那當你一對五到第六個第七個的時候我們就沒有足夠的反制能力所以我想請教一下這個院長未來你的規劃是怎麼樣"},{"start":12585.316,"end":12598.068,"text":"是怎麼樣可以讓這個更多的中小企業能夠有機會來去參與類似這樣子的它不見得是要自己做出整建那它也不需要一個場域能夠來提供他們的這些重要的一些零組件體"},{"start":12599.296,"end":12614.816,"text":"這邊跟委員報告這次參加的廠商總共有9家國內的廠商4家國外的廠商總共13家參與那這13家他們都有現成的技術和成品為什麼剛剛我們要講我們第一個層面辦理的目的就是讓"},{"start":12616.238,"end":12644.486,"text":"我們採購的包含軍方還有工部門包含海巡啊經濟部內政部等等去了解到現在現有的產品已經到達什麼樣的程度他才能決定他要用什麼樣的規格去採購多大的數量我想這是一個有主有從的我們可能先了解工信能到達什麼樣的程度還有未來的潛能在哪裡然後我們再來決定預算要怎麼編列好 謝謝院長我們時間五分鐘已經到了 謝謝"},{"start":12651.903,"end":12664.477,"text":"好 謝謝關廷委員 部長請回接下來有請李昆城委員上台質詢謝謝主席 我們請顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝"},{"start":12675.023,"end":12701.311,"text":"市立委員好部長好 辛苦了先請教一下就是今天的媒體有報導美國的國防部長赫格賽斯他在這個美國聯邦眾議院撥款委員會的國防小組裡面的這個聽證會他有特別提到說中國是美國步步進逼的威脅北京正在印太地區的戰爭中準備嚇阻中國是美國國防部在印太地區的首要任務"},{"start":12702.489,"end":12718.502,"text":"重點北京正在進行重大軍事擴張並積極演練入侵台灣那我請教一下部長美國國防部長這句話有新的含義嗎還是他只是把目前的這個事實把它呈示出來"},{"start":12719.497,"end":12735.744,"text":"美國部長在我看起來他就是呈現兩個意涵第一個當然就是說集體嚇阻的概念也就是說以實力來換取和平那麼如果能夠達成一個集體有效嚇阻的一個力量才能夠避免"},{"start":12736.644,"end":12757.982,"text":"硬態或他在情勢發生任何這一個既有的狀態就是說這個這個和平穩定的現況的維持那所以要用嚇阻的手段那這個嚇阻的手段呢是集體嚇阻這集體嚇阻當然裡面也包括了對我們的要求就是說要求我們要強化我們的自我防衛能力"},{"start":12758.961,"end":12776.532,"text":"那關於這個美國國防部長他所講的就是說北京正在進行重大軍事擴張積極演練入侵台灣那這個說法有進一步的的一個含義嗎那還是說跟過去他的說法是差不多的"},{"start":12778.068,"end":12793.56,"text":"我想我看他整個的全文看起來當然他在描述一個北京正在不斷的持續進行對台灣的軍事恫嚇然後另外的軍事擴張也就是跨過第一島鏈甚至到達第二島鏈這樣子的一個軍事擴張的一個"},{"start":12797.763,"end":12823.116,"text":"包括拒止外軍等等的這些這樣子的一個一個越來越大規模的這樣的一個演習那也許他有公開也許他沒有公開也許他有命名也許他沒有命名但是不管怎麼樣都可以看得出來他不斷的在從事更大規模的軍事的演習跟這個他的軍事的能力的投射這樣子好"},{"start":12823.456,"end":12847.402,"text":"因為他的這個參謀首長聯席會主席同樣以書面的聲明表示說這些軍事活動中國的軍事活動是針對台灣規模它的範圍規模複雜性還有頻率都日益增長那這些挑釁的動作呢並非例行的演習是為武統而進行的演練那是不是說美方這邊也擔憂這個中國有可能隨時由嚴轉戰"},{"start":12852.463,"end":12874.213,"text":"由訓轉站的這個可能性由訓轉也由原轉站或者是直接由訓轉站這個都是我們持續密駐的一個範圍因為我們現在觀察到中國不斷地在台海周邊從事這些有預警式的或者非預警式的這個演習"},{"start":12875.053,"end":12887.885,"text":"那這些演習也逐步的這個相關的規模也逐步的擴大所以我們對於這個部分的本於料底重寬的原則我們都要來加以這個掌握並且來加以因應這樣子"},{"start":12889.482,"end":12904.777,"text":"那因為今天是這個我們這個海空戰力提升計畫這個特別預算的一個報告那這個特別預算是從111年到115年那當初呢它是依照聯合反制整體防空海上節節的作戰需求編列了"},{"start":12907.499,"end":12923.894,"text":"2369億5000萬左右那其中呢有八類十項的專案那其中有一項是屬於這個無人攻擊載具那當然我想請教部長就是說因為這個是110年通過的這個特別條例跟運算那接下來呢接下來這五年都在做這些運算的執行但是呢"},{"start":12926.237,"end":12937.053,"text":"時間已經在改變了就是說我們在四年前五年前所訂的這個專案到現在為止部長有沒有認為說要做調整的地方您是說無人載具的部分嗎"},{"start":12937.742,"end":12962.609,"text":"我覺得就整個這個特別預算的部分因為我有看啦就是說我們當然那時候的111年的這個計畫5年的計畫或許無人機載具它不是一個特別的一個重點它只是其中的一個類象但是呢這個時間不斷的轉移嘛那現在有關於這個無人機這個無人攻擊載具不管是無人機或是無人機"},{"start":12963.309,"end":12992.17,"text":"無人這個潛艦它可能越來越重要了所以我是想請教部長就是說接下來我們的這個計畫還是按照這個原定的計畫那還是說會特別加強有關無人攻擊載具這部分第一個跟委員報告第一個當然就是說我們的下半年會提出的特別預算主要就是在不對稱戰力還有這個防衛韌性的這一塊那就這個部分無人載具當然是裡面重要的一環你說下半年的特別預算是對"},{"start":12993.31,"end":13016.813,"text":"對,所以無人載具是我們一個裡面相當重要的一個預換你說今年下半年會提出特別預算?今年下半年會提出特別預算,那其中會涵蓋無人載具的部分那無人載具,因為之前這個你說是指4100億這個預算?不是,下半年還沒有提出的下半年一個特別的預算?對那個特別預算是什麼樣的特別預算?"},{"start":13017.861,"end":13037.031,"text":"特別預算也就是說剛剛已經講了我們還是在不對稱戰力跟防衛任性的建構這些關鍵的戰力的形成那其中不對不對稱戰力的部分呢那當然有包括相關的這些無人載具包括無人機還有也可能會拉入無人艇這樣子"},{"start":13037.631,"end":13064.384,"text":"所以下半年度我們所提出的特別預算就是以無人的供給載具為主就對了應該不止吧我們像包括我們相關的這些反建的或者是我們應該就是說不電站立它有一個基本的共同定義就是要機動存貨力高致命然後低成本所以我想我們會按照這個方面來做一個規劃然後呢來建構我們足夠所需要的這個量能那"},{"start":13065.205,"end":13086.787,"text":"這個部分整個是在我們的這個海空戰力特別提升計畫以後之後那我們會繼續的來強化我們不對稱戰力跟這個防衛人形的建構這個當然也有包括一些像指管的系統等等或者是其他的一些相關的一個措施"},{"start":13087.948,"end":13104.746,"text":"這個部分我們現在還在整個在做檢討那檢討完之後我們下半年會提出來跟委員做一個詳盡的報告那預算規模大概多少我跟委員報告因為我們現在還沒有最後的定案是不是容我能夠稍微保留一下"},{"start":13105.56,"end":13130.715,"text":"那表示就是說我們整個方向會轉成說這一個不對陣戰爭裡面那尤其是包含這個無人攻擊載具應該是說我們一直在朝向不對陣關鍵戰力的建構那因為像剛剛陳委員也提到了這一個無人載具的這個部分那我只是在說明不管是機動的這個反艦機動的防空那麼還有"},{"start":13133.616,"end":13148.523,"text":"這個以外呢 我們無人載具的部分 基於它現在的這個成為從二五戰爭也好 從各國現在這個無人載具發展的進程來看的話我想我們也會把它納入 成為我們的特別預算的項目之一"},{"start":13150.824,"end":13175.097,"text":"那7月份的這個漢光演習的話 那會不會特別因應就是說不管我們自己認為說這個中國在由延轉 由迅轉戰的這方面的這個企圖心是越來越強那或是包含這個美國國防部長我剛才所提到的 他們認為說這個現在中國就是這個為了要武統台灣做準備 那漢光演習這部分有做什麼樣的一個因應嗎"},{"start":13176.197,"end":13188.527,"text":"我們漢光演習現在延長為十天,九夜所以我們從灰色地帶的運出一直到加強戒備然後一直到應急作戰"},{"start":13191.638,"end":13215.714,"text":"就有關於灰色地帶的這個硬組就是有關於它有可能由迅轉眼、由遠轉戰這個項目我們要根據相關的徵喉來做一個判斷然後來不管我們在之前的兵推或以後的這個漢光的實兵驗證我們都會來加以來應該說是一個很務實的來訓練然後根據這一些驗證的結果不斷的進行修調這樣"},{"start":13221.309,"end":13236.654,"text":"所以這次漢光演習的重點就是以防範因應中國過去地帶的侵略為主那你就從什麼全面入侵開始我們現在是拉到更前面就是從灰色地帶的硬主那灰色地帶的硬主就是他現在"},{"start":13237.694,"end":13247.358,"text":"常常在進行的一種他以訓練的名義演習的名義可是他的規模越來越大的情況之下那我們怎麼判斷這個關鍵的徵喉然後來進行後續我們所應對像我們現在相關的這一些這個立即備戰操演"},{"start":13255.521,"end":13268.515,"text":"其實目的也就是在訓練我們的能力也就是說你不可以輕忽他的灰色地帶的洗澡認為他是不是一定會一直停在灰色地帶的洗澡我們要持續的密切關注相關的預警徵候這樣子好 OK 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":13273.702,"end":13302.962,"text":"好 謝謝昆城委員部長請回接下來我們有請蔡易瑜委員上台質詢蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在那已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束那本日會有黃文委員跟徐巧興委員提出書面質詢請列入公報並勘定在公報那有書面口頭質詢未及答覆的部分在請以國防部請以書面答覆"},{"start":13303.782,"end":13322.183,"text":"那這個接下來我們來進行討論事項討論事項有兩個討論事項有兩個一個是今天有專案報告的那一個另外一個是其他的凍結案40案那我們今天我們是三次一次會就是要來處理這一些解凍案那我們先來看討論事項第一項"},{"start":13323.524,"end":13350.99,"text":"我們先來處理國防部主管預算凍結提出專案報告並經同意後使得凍之案國防部剛剛有做出專案報告這剛剛大家已經有聽了這個跟性平相關的請問各位委員是否同意解凍同意好 同意那我們同意凍之然後提報院會這畢竟是一個專案報告所以我們這個還是非常"},{"start":13352.912,"end":13376.926,"text":"這個希望這個提案的委員能夠來看一下這個報告的內容不然我們花了這個一整個早上來做這個專案那好但沒關係這個剛剛已經這個結束了今天這個我們國民黨本委今天只來來質詢只有一位而且現在在場是沒有國民黨的委員所以這個好"},{"start":13388.011,"end":13409.081,"text":"這個實在是我們這個研會然後要處理這些案子然後但是我們之前大家花了那麼多時間然後來做這些凍結跟討論那在解凍的時候其實是還是很希望這至少今天排的也是至少是國民黨非常關心的特別預算但是我們的本委只有一位他現在都不在"},{"start":13410.598,"end":13418.331,"text":"好 那我們來處理討論事項第二項處理國防部主管預算凍結案中提出書面報告並且統一後 使得凍值共40案"},{"start":13420.195,"end":13444.083,"text":"國防部已將書面報告送交本會請問各位委員是否同意解凍?同意這感覺真的都是我們在擦屁股而已這感覺真的是很差那均同意動之我們就提報院會但我們還是有很多甚至我記得113年是不是還有六案113年還有六案對不對是不是所以我們還是有一堆解凍案還是要繼續來"},{"start":13445.283,"end":13473.098,"text":"來做 那我們是很希望這個盡快我們就是 延會就是本來他就應該要早一點處理 但我們已經三月多才通過這一個總預算那這個時間就非常的緊迫 那現在要延會那看起來大家這個不管是法案還是解凍這個國民黨參與的程度還是有點低啦 那我作為主席還是我覺得還是要把這件事情講一下好 那本日議程所列事項均已處理完畢那因為六月十一跟六月十二兩日一次會 那我們現在散會"},{"start":13478.302,"end":13480.903,"text":"這是徐曉新提的耶我知道 他今天沒來開會啊對啊"},{"start":13525.282,"end":13526.817,"text":"響鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}