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11:26:14","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.29596875,"end":5.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.7009687499999995,"end":6.392843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.69221875,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.61596875,"end":10.763468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.35409375,"end":11.927843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.24784375,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.200343750000002,"end":26.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.28846875,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.49784375,"end":64.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.01659375,"end":83.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.13596875,"end":101.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.70471875000001,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.19784375,"end":93.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.53096875,"end":94.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.74096875000001,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.26784375000001,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.55471875,"end":134.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.86659375,"end":106.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.95471875000001,"end":110.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.18659375,"end":111.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.98346875,"end":115.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":119.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.98159375,"end":127.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.95096875000002,"end":136.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.43159375000002,"end":138.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.73096875000002,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.60846875000001,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.59971875000002,"end":141.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.47284375,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.79471875000002,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.60159375,"end":182.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.33909375000002,"end":197.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.44846875000002,"end":190.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.04659375,"end":199.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.00409375,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.34971875000002,"end":231.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.50221875000003,"end":224.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.15159375000002,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.37034375000002,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.44596875000002,"end":243.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.80846875,"end":236.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.09846875000002,"end":265.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.06346875000003,"end":251.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.18534375000002,"end":254.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.96409375,"end":279.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.39659375,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.40846875,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.80909375000005,"end":285.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.77034375,"end":297.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.03159375,"end":293.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.39409375,"end":300.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.62534375,"end":301.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.84471875,"end":302.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.16096875,"end":304.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.92846875000004,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.25909375000003,"end":323.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.99721875,"end":328.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.39346875,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.72221875,"end":434.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.13221875000005,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.14471875000004,"end":352.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.26034375,"end":368.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.86784375,"end":368.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.27284375000005,"end":369.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.37221875,"end":444.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.50221875000005,"end":458.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.54159375,"end":482.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.31721875000005,"end":463.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.970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我們請主席長主席長好 辛苦了那本席我看你今天所貼出來的報告但是這個報告我覺得這個主席長好像還是非常的樂觀這個對於這個今年的這個GDP的成長率還是估算有7.71%"},{"start":32.853,"end":53.395,"text":"但是呢 因為這個報告應該是這幾天才提出來的那但是我看一下 主席長你沒有把說美國現在在打伊朗嘛然後中東戰爭石油的危機那也不知道哪時候會結束然後呢 現在就是說這個因為美國的這個對等關稅已經被撤銷了那我們現在跟他重新再談判然後呢 他又重寫這個301的調查"},{"start":54.936,"end":79.622,"text":"這些都是一些不穩定的因素但是我看這個主計長的這個報告裡面都沒有把這些不確定的這一些甚至是負面的因素把它加進去那請問一下主計長這個今年對於這個GDP的成長率還是有這麼高的樂觀的7.71%的這一個預估嗎甚至這個人均GDP有到44181美元然後呢消費者物價指數CPI呢還是處在這個2%以下的這個溫和區1.68還有這麼樂觀嗎"},{"start":84.335,"end":103.97,"text":"我跟委員報告,事實上因為我們去年也是經濟成長也很好,8.68,那今年7.71在那個高成長之下,要再這麼高是呢?但是問題是我們的一月份它的出口就非常的暢旺,它整個成長成長非常大對,一月份二月份其實都沒有我剛才講的那些因素嘛,對不對?"},{"start":104.69,"end":131.73,"text":"所以到二月底才發生所以我們在二月中旬的時候初估的部分就是7.71到二月底的時候中東戰事開始發生的時候所以這個部分影響到我們的部分當然是油價油價的一個上升那我們剛剛也提到油價上升百分之十會影響到我們GDP0.1的一個部分那如果成長一倍那就會往上再去加深"},{"start":132.19,"end":150.775,"text":"那本身還有一個物價的部分所以那時候算油價是每桶是多少錢1千58塊那現在已經double了吧719塊差不多是一倍嘛所以等於是說可能會成長一倍然後包括我們的物價那我們的物價也是大概成長10%會有0.24%這樣的一個所以我們目前但是問題是說我們行政院在"},{"start":159.017,"end":187.425,"text":"整個一個物價穩定小組對我知道我做了這些努力所以三四月目前天然氣石油都有台電中油還有一些台水相關的公司都有吸收所以這個部分我們以後就做針對這個因為政策因素而需要做賠償的部分我們損失的部分我們來做補貼或包括增資所以這個部分我希望讓民生的物價能夠穩定"},{"start":188.685,"end":196.57,"text":"這都是政府穩定物價的措施啊那我只是問主計長還對7.71的經濟成長率還要保持這麼樂觀的態度嗎因為我剛才講這些變數都持續在進行當中喔持續當中我跟委員報告我們物價指數是每個月修正每個月會公佈物價指數然後每三個月會公佈我們的"},{"start":214.082,"end":214.402,"text":"一定會受到影響的吧"},{"start":235.239,"end":238.24,"text":"一個是可稱是在我們的部分那現在政府有做了一些油電的一些穩定的措施至少到四月份為止"},{"start":251.985,"end":256.966,"text":"但是我們不知道戰爭何時會結束那油價一直在漲另外就是說我們美國的301調查也不知道調查情況是怎麼樣那我們跟美國關稅的談判情況是不是能維持過去所談好的15%不疊加這都還不確定所以其實主席處應該要戒慎恐懼不是說這麼的樂觀還是維持在這麼高的一個經濟成長率"},{"start":279.431,"end":299.714,"text":"我要跟委員報告 其實我們的一個評估都是比較保守有喔 去年是很保守啦 後來一下拉到8點多啊但是今年我看好像又比較樂觀了一點點今年7.71其實目前也是保守的一個只是因為這還是保守的估計喔我看妳的新聞稿是說還會再上揚"},{"start":300.895,"end":323.711,"text":"不過那是二月份啦但是因為我們的評估都是偏向保守的那除了這個戰爭的部分的因素之外那這個部分我們在談到的就是整個你說關稅的一個部分其實301的一個我們因為已經跟美國有已經簽訂ART包括MOU所以他對我的影響並不是那麼大"},{"start":324.111,"end":339.555,"text":"這個當然我們是希望說能夠維持15%不抵價我們就會盡量能夠維持這個是我們的期待但是美方是不是能夠按照我們期待這是另外一回事所以我說這是一個這是一個變數這是一個變數我當然是期待就是說還是維持按照我們之前跟美索"},{"start":339.935,"end":364.982,"text":"美國所談定的這些關稅的一些內容只是說這些黑天鵝都在啊但是我是看這個主席處交給我們的報告還是維持這麼樂觀的一個數字啦所以等於其實是對啊沒有啦我是說你現在是跟我們這個參委會做這個業務報告嘛理論上應該是提供一些比較新的一些數據然後呢把這些變數把它加進去那或許呢會受到這些影響這民眾會比較會比較關心這一部分啦是是"},{"start":369.344,"end":388.942,"text":"就是說像現在這個大家很關心說這個物價可能會受到這些影響,微幅會上升那現在有媒體在講說,台塑他們有提到說這個石化下游的一些基礎的原料,比如說PE,PP還有PPC受到這個中斷的一個風險"},{"start":391.264,"end":411.039,"text":"所以包含塑膠袋,各類的包材,這些民生基礎工業的物資可能成本會上漲那這些上漲會影響到什麼呢?會影響到我們的手搖飲業因為手搖飲業有很多的一些塑膠杯、吸管是會受到影響的然後小吃攤的塑膠袋,據說媒體的報導,塑膠袋單價也都提高了"},{"start":415.802,"end":434.498,"text":"那整個這個對於我剛才所提到的不論是手搖飲小吃攤甚至我們的網購跟物料都會受到影響價格都會提高這個都是跟民生息息相關的我不曉得說主計走數這邊有沒有去關心或是去了解現在這個民生物價受到的波動"},{"start":435.439,"end":458.104,"text":"跟委員報告,我們物價的部分,我們是每個月都要公佈它整個的一個物價的指數,每個月所以我們現在都會進行調查所以我是針對就是說,因為現在石油的問題嘛那我已經想到說,這些有可能這些小吃業者或是手搖飲業者這些會受到的影響,你們有沒有去關心要了解,特別針對這個石油會造成他們的成本提升這部分"},{"start":458.624,"end":482.007,"text":"是有關他們這個成本會提升的部分我們會把這個反進運到一個我們行政院的物價小組穩定小組裡面來討論那譬如說經濟部要針對哪些中小的一個產業必須要做一個扶持或者是說小資業的一個部要怎樣來一個補助這個部分就會由經濟部來研理相關的一個對策"},{"start":483.289,"end":492.324,"text":"那這個有納進去你們所謂的民生的一些核心的調查物價指數有涵蓋在這裡面嗎"},{"start":496.977,"end":515.371,"text":"我們整個我們整個會把這個我們還是會提報啦還是會提報讓上面來了解就是說因為石油會漲到哪的時候我們不知道我們當然希望說戰事很快就確定但是看起來伊朗還是有一些反擊的能力那荷姆斯海峽還是"},{"start":516.492,"end":538.118,"text":"這一個也要運出來還是會有一些問題所以民生物資多少會受到影響那這些都是跟我們民眾息息相關的我希望說主計總署這方面能夠多去了解一下提供給上面來做參考好那現在就是說立法院他們有通過這個718億的這一個新興的預算可以動之"},{"start":541.159,"end":557.403,"text":"那現在就是說有 雖然這個是不合常規的預算審查的一個狀態啦那在這部分的話 那718億就是先動資就對了是 我們已經簽願要來動資但是我們今年的預算是3兆嘛 3兆350億那他只動資了這個718億 動資不到一趴吧"},{"start":564.105,"end":583.914,"text":"是 所以還有包括因為這是新增預算的部分新增預算還有299億沒有通過然後那個比去年預算還要增加的部分有1805億也還沒有通過那再來就是我們的第一預備金還有第二預備金還有栽准金總共有170億沒有通過所以總共有2274億元沒有通過"},{"start":588.096,"end":602.835,"text":"那請教一下,雖然說原來這個計畫可以再延續再來做使用但是萬一真的立法院有來審查今年度的總運算,現在已經是快三月底了"},{"start":603.922,"end":629.82,"text":"那可是 比如說 本來是按照原定的計畫跟預算 大家也在用的比如說 前面可能用了三分之一或四分之一的那結果立法院真的審預算了這個預算就把你砍掉了二分之一 砍掉了三分之一這種情況也有可能發生啊那就變成公務員說 你不是可以按照原來的計畫來做嗎我按照原來的計畫來做結果你給我砍了三分之一 砍了四分之一造成我原來的計畫受到影響了"},{"start":632.242,"end":657.957,"text":"對啊 公務員怎麼辦 現在到底做還是不做所以這個就是讓公務人員很為懶的一個地方所以就是他很多的不確定性他跟真正的三讀通過的一個預算是不一樣的所以本身執行將來有他的後遺症所以公務人員在這方面執行 他有很大的一個不確定性對公務人員來講 將來如果被刪除就是違反規定"},{"start":658.737,"end":687.94,"text":"那怎麼辦如果他認為說這筆預算這個是屬於這個原來的計畫那立法院說在黑黨說原來的計畫我還可以繼續用啊那結果用的情況之下萬一省的預算啃掉了這個原本的這個預算沒有這麼多那公務員要不要負什麼責任啊他維穩規定也是這些要收回啦所以這些要收回對公務人員他的一個壓力非常的大是啊那這個就是說用完了"},{"start":688.972,"end":713.78,"text":"現在就是說預算原來的計畫聽起來好像可以用但是如果聽這個主席這樣講用起來心裡也是驚驚你也不知道說到底這筆預算是不是不確定性太高不確定說這筆預算是不是能夠按照原來的這個預算數能夠通過如果能夠按照原來預算數通過用起來當然是心安但是這不是三讀的這是按照"},{"start":715.041,"end":740.624,"text":"預算法的這個規定等於開了一個後門讓大家可以用所以這種不確定性其實對公務員來講是造成很大的壓力啦但是就計畫超過的部分就沒有辦法也不行啊快1800公里都沒有辦法到謝謝我想主席長你再找個時間跟昆城委員去溝通一下因為這個其實也講不清楚這個齁其實要跟自來黨溝通啦其實也不用跟我們溝通啦謝謝謝謝主席謝謝昆城委員接著請李彥雄"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}