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11:29:50","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形)，並備質詢。二、審查委員林俊憲等23人擬具「市區道路條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】【3月16日及18日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.636593750000003,"end":16.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.43346875,"end":16.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.32784375,"end":17.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.407218750000002,"end":34.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.64159375,"end":38.674718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.99534375,"end":53.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.149093750000006,"end":59.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.81971875,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.88659375,"end":62.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.384093750000005,"end":65.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.53971875,"end":71.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.96909375,"end":72.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.65659375,"end":74.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.50034375,"end":87.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.78096875,"end":91.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.32034375,"end":164.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":165.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.74346875,"end":166.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.90784375,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.79534375,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.31346875,"end":308.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.03409375,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.83409375,"end":288.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.52284375,"end":308.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.82659375000003,"end":340.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.87721875,"end":308.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.73221875,"end":318.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.91784375000003,"end":319.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.29846875000004,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.56346875,"end":345.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.23784375,"end":350.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.72159375,"end":360.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.97034375000004,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.03784375000004,"end":361.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.15596875,"end":361.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.71284375000005,"end":361.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.89846875,"end":361.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.98284375000003,"end":377.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.08409375,"end":362.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.95721875000004,"end":365.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.94659375000003,"end":384.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.83596875,"end":412.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.81471875,"end":385.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.84784375000004,"end":389.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.46346875,"end":391.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.77909375,"end":397.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.90471875000003,"end":403.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.73909375000005,"end":431.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.36284375,"end":417.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.15971875,"end":419.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.26909375,"end":420.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.77784375000005,"end":435.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.03471875,"end":459.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.22034375000004,"end":435.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.89471875000004,"end":440.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.46784375000004,"end":444.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.38221875000005,"end":452.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.21721875000003,"end":455.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.52034375000005,"end":461.14034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.37221875,"end":464.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.44784375,"end":464.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.18159375000005,"end":470.08409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.741,"end":15.965,"text":"謝謝趙偉,那我是不是有請我們內政部我們部長請劉部長"},{"start":23.439,"end":44.959,"text":"部長好部長首先要感謝因為在去年丹納斯颱風受災這麼嚴重那我們現在內政部也核定要針對鄉鎮的村裡的災防能力那內政部這邊會提供對應的一些他們需要防災的一些空間的一個補助那我想這個幫助很大"},{"start":45.359,"end":70.959,"text":"尤其是一些在比較偏遠的一些一些村裡的辦公室他基本上他們村裡辦公室就是防災中心就是村裡的防災中心那這個補助的幫助是有的所以在這邊先感謝部長那第二個那要跟部長來聊一下就是說我想這個是不是也請我們這個內政部國土署是不是也可以上來那"},{"start":74.627,"end":91.3,"text":"我們知道說現在整個土方的一個問題,很多土方是需要找地方去劃的所以這個問題我們必須要正視,而且現在就民間在說那個處理土方的費用一直墊高"},{"start":93.002,"e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事實上我一直在講就是我們布袋商港 布袋商港的北側到東石的這個壽島這一塊是適合填海造路的"},{"start":115.842,"end":140.638,"text":"那這一塊怎麼適合呢?我直接給部長看看他這十年來的一個變化因為我們知道東石布袋外側就是外山頂洲那在內側有一個壽島那整體外山頂洲跟壽島不斷的在難移所以我們可以看看2015年的時候我在講的這一塊它這個是壽島然後跟三港的北側你看當時候的沙洲長這個樣子"},{"start":141.479,"end":169.536,"text":"然後到了2021的時候它就開始在持續的它是持續的不斷的在南漂來再下一頁然後到了2023、2025的時候你看它已經南漂到第一個島已經完全都已經卡住了這一個港取家這一個布袋第三漁港的這個港嘴這裡已經堵住了然後第二個這個受導的第二個島鏈也往下漂過來"},{"start":170.256,"end":197.003,"text":"所以就會看得到原本的這個出海口是在南端現在變成是在中端所以以這樣的一個趨勢咧也許再過十年我們看的這一塊這一個海域咧它就會被完全封住會被完全封住再過可能再十年所以大自然的力量會導致這裡會變成一個內陸化所以原本裡面有刺蝸鵝尾現在你看2025的時候現在鵝尾已經都清除了"},{"start":197.863,"end":202.967,"text":"就表示說這裡已經沒有辦法去從事漁業所以也沒有生態問題那既然沒有生態問題的話很遺憾的這一個海域還被劃為濕地因為當時在決定國家濕地的時候範圍劃太大把我們整個布袋跟當時我們整個海岸線都把它劃為濕地那很明顯的這裡的濕地名稱叫做"},{"start":223.722,"end":246.591,"text":"叫做瀑紫溪河口失地 但是這離瀑紫溪超級遠跟瀑紫溪的河口完全沒有關係他只是當時把整個海岸線都把他抓進來那如果我這樣給部長很清楚的看到這十年來因為受倒的難移 然後整個海岸線的變化現在受倒的第二個島鏈也已經快要往下再繼續擠下去"},{"start":248.112,"end":270.843,"text":"所以這裡就是一個很適合做填海造陸也可以協助去化土方的地方那中間這陣段就卡到說也許這個跟私地的一個私地保育法的競合關係但是不管怎麼競合我想內政部總是有辦法來做通盤的一個檢討那既然這塊地適合現在來處理土方那我們是不是可以加速來進行呢"},{"start":272.064,"end":287.641,"text":"好 謝謝蔡委員的關心委員在戴納斯颱風過後你就有跟我提到這個事情所以回來我們有做一下這個精進跟檢討的方案第一個這個地方是不是適合做所謂的填海造陸現在國土署已經把它納入我們在做評估"},{"start":288.302,"end":308.373,"text":"那第二個就是說失地保育法其實呢第九條的規定就是如果他是因為國家的重大公共利益跟委員報告填海造陸是屬於我們要辦理國土流失那個最重要的這個利益的時候我們當然要衡量輕重認為是填海造陸是非常重要的"},{"start":308.973,"end":324.145,"text":"但是這一塊整個的嘉義布袋的這個部分不管是北邊或是南邊未來有沒有其他的國家重要建設比如說海水淡化廠或者是說因為嘉義現在有CORUS的關係會有其他的重要的科學園區需要做這個競合"},{"start":325.226,"end":338.272,"text":"那這個淨河上面如果已經有畫出來說這塊區域需要做填海造陸的話那當然它是一個非常好的未來這個營建剩餘土石方乾淨的土石方的一個去化的一個目標我們會朝著這方面來檢討改進"},{"start":340.333,"end":355.507,"text":"好 那跟部長說一下就是說我們做海蛋廠的填海加入地點並不是這一塊所以這一塊又是新的那只是這一塊面積遠大於原本經濟部所規劃的經濟部大概那一塊只有20公頃那大概100萬方的土方就"},{"start":356.047,"end":371.024,"text":"至少這邊去化一千萬方都沒有問題這塊明顯大很多但是會不會影響到布袋港我們是不是需要跟交流部可以加加在城市評估但是不會影響布袋港的原因就是說它原本就是一個極端已經快要內陸化的一塊"},{"start":372.406,"end":395.694,"text":"一個海域的所以這個地方你看連那個鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法進出了連最淺的鵝尾鴨都已經沒辦法所以它這裡的生態的功能幾乎是完全消失了是 我要跟委員報告不管是跟經濟部的水利署或者是交通部來聯繫就是我們填海造陸以後要做什麼譬如說我們現在台北港在接收剩餘土石方它是為了台北港為了要擴建"},{"start":396.994,"end":411.926,"text":"或者是未來的那個高雄的南興計畫區它有剩餘土石方法 它是要擴建可能當成是不是機場啦 或是其他的這個循環經濟園區使用不是說純粹土 但是那個地方 要有一個所以要做一個整體的 會面的時候總統也有來布袋這裡然後稍微跟他說明一下 市長總統也覺得說有一些方向讓我去思考"},{"start":420.533,"end":434.261,"text":"那我也覺得我會認真去思考未來要做什麼這件事情但是呢總是這個前提作業因為如果目前他還被沒有辦法啟動天海造作的話很多後續的計畫是也沒有辦法去認真去啟動的"},{"start":435.642,"end":457.52,"text":"報告委員那個院長他會跨部會來處理這塊事情那也知道那個蔡委員的關心有時間他可能要到現場去看那就會把內政部經濟部還有或者交通部相關的部會甚至國科會會籍召集然後來處理這一塊我想這個對於台灣在處理國土流失以內政部的主管機關來看的話我們是樂觀其事好 謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":463.242,"end":469.829,"text":"謝謝謝謝蔡議員謝謝好我們登記發言的委員除了不在場"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}