{"error":false,"id":["167513"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167513,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167513","日期":"2026-03-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-16T11:23:42+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-16T11:32:25+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e545302d1642c5f60ffebcc9ddaae28e0bc6757ec415edbebfd7ce027fbc82e0ce33abcfce886a825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"11:23:42 - 11:32:25","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":0.08159375,"end":2.46096875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":9.818468750000001,"end":11.961593750000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":12.130343750000002,"end":13.345343750000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":18.711593750000002,"end":19.21784375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":19.30221875,"end":80.60909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":81.01409375,"end":83.79846875000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":85.06409375000001,"end":143.67096875000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":88.21971875,"end":88.70909375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":144.22784375,"end":146.21909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":147.04596875000001,"end":150.70784375000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":150.75846875000002,"end":150.79221875000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":150.79221875000002,"end":151.29846875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":151.29846875,"end":152.69909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":153.39096875,"end":156.85034375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":155.38221875000002,"end":158.57159375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":159.55034375,"end":162.11534375000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":162.48659375,"end":163.44846875000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":163.88721875000002,"end":165.94596875000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":166.58721875,"end":168.51096875000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":168.47721875000002,"end":169.64159375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":170.51909375000002,"end":175.17659375000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":175.21034375000002,"end":175.22721875000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":175.22721875000002,"end":176.12159375000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":176.12159375000002,"end":177.30284375000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":177.58971875,"end":184.42409375000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":184.72784375,"end":189.03096875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":189.08159375000002,"end":193.09784375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":193.19909375,"end":194.31284375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":196.43909375,"end":197.70471875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":197.75534375,"end":239.85846875000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":240.19596875000002,"end":243.09846875000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":241.61346875,"end":269.67659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":270.48659375,"end":285.10034375000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":285.74159375,"end":288.84659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":289.89284375,"end":290.88846875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":291.22596875,"end":293.20034375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":293.65596875,"end":307.47659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":307.89846875,"end":315.98159375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":316.13346875,"end":324.46971875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":325.06034375,"end":351.82409375000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":351.89159375,"end":359.31659375000004,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":359.75534375,"end":360.07596875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":360.46409375,"end":370.92659375000005,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":370.89284375,"end":378.48659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":371.46659375,"end":371.88846875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":372.76596875,"end":381.47346875000005,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":380.22471875,"end":384.30846875000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":382.26659375,"end":383.44784375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":384.30846875000003,"end":389.87721875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":388.25721875000005,"end":396.07034375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":395.27721875000003,"end":396.32346875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":396.23909375000005,"end":402.60096875000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":401.43659375000004,"end":401.94284375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":402.83721875000003,"end":403.52909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":403.30971875,"end":440.62034375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":433.09409375,"end":449.58096875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":446.23971875,"end":477.62721875000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":451.79159375,"end":452.39909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":454.47471875,"end":454.99784375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":456.76971875000004,"end":457.39409375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":459.13221875000005,"end":459.48659375000005,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":463.70534375000005,"end":466.03409375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":466.60784375000003,"end":471.09659375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":471.68721875000006,"end":472.26096875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":473.03721875,"end":473.44221875000005,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":477.98159375000006,"end":482.60534375000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":482.80784375,"end":484.96784375000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":485.25471875000005,"end":488.78159375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":489.08534375000005,"end":496.24034375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":496.05471875,"end":496.15596875000006,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":496.24034375,"end":500.74596875000003,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":496.32471875000005,"end":498.11346875000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":499.78409375,"end":503.15909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":504.64409375,"end":518.22846875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":518.34659375,"end":518.8190937500001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":519.15659375,"end":523.24034375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員嘉郡","start":519.71346875,"end":520.32096875,"speaker_score":0.971}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.37,"end":2.252,"text":"主席我想請葉主委請國務卿 葉主委"},{"start":20.656,"end":34.06,"text":"好久沒有在質詢台上碰面了那今天呢我想跟主委討論的話題是有關於少子化的這個危機那根據統計呢台灣今年二月的新生兒數量僅有6523人創下"},{"start":38.541,"end":64.517,"text":"三月歷史新低紀錄與去年的同期相比更是呈現雪崩式的衰退衰退了37.32%少了3884人回顧去年2025年全年的新生兒還有10.7萬人但是目前的這個崩跌態勢來看今年的新生兒總數恐"},{"start":66.038,"end":83.232,"text":"跌破10萬大關我想這不是危言聳聽可能是目前的保守估計那我想請問主委您認為今年台灣還守得住10萬新生兒的這個防線嗎我們努力鼓勵大家多多生育"},{"start":85.137,"end":113.936,"text":"我現在今天就要問你 你的努力在哪裡你的實際的政策在哪裡我先繼續講一點事實上我認為國發會的人口推估一直過於樂觀我翻出2020年國發會發布的人口報告當時推估要到2054年新生兒才會跌破10萬結果現在的狀況就有可能在今年跌破整整"},{"start":115.237,"end":134.867,"text":"提早了28年耶 整整提早了28年當然這不是你任內做的模型 也不是你任內做的報告但是呢 我相信這是一個嚴重的脫節那民眾怎麼能夠相信說現在政府推出的少子化對策真的能夠對症下藥呢尤其我們從2018年到現在這個成立的少子化辦公室"},{"start":144.272,"end":169.526,"text":"到現在你知道花了多少錢了嗎?剛剛真正前委員有大概看了一下多少錢?一千多萬吧一千多萬跟一千多億你知道差多少嗎?我算了總共編列了高達5931億委員你那是累計的吧?當然是累計的啊"},{"start":170.6,"end":173.922,"text":"5931億就算是累計也很高啦 8年欸是多少錢欸結果你這些錢花下去了不但沒有成效還產生崩跌的效應那國發會有沒有思考一下說你現在是哪裡沒有落實還是你的正確方向不正確才導致"},{"start":196.705,"end":216.171,"text":"這樣子的結果呢因為就是台灣面對到很嚴重的不婚不生這個問題那我在中研院的同事也有做研究就是說目前我們的補助這樣的一個效果對於是不是能夠引導40的婦女去生育這樣的效果看起來好像沒有那麼的強"},{"start":217.131,"end":236.838,"text":"所以變成就是說我們可能要另外一個思考就是說我們的目前在推的一些政策可能有一些部分要做一些滾動式的檢討所以在少子女化對策計畫2.0這部分的話是希望從養育養育住子啊就養育養育住子這五大方向來來來來"},{"start":240.319,"end":265.096,"text":"看可不可以讓我們少子化應該是說主委 我跟你建議這個可能會是你主委任內最能夠做出成績的一件事情而且最能夠影響台灣的一件事情因為人力及國力啊我們人口一直減少這是一個國安危機而且這是你最能夠凸顯出你在主委任內最能夠有的作為你要想喔 2018年我們的出生人口還有18.1萬"},{"start":270.539,"end":275.565,"text":"到了2025年我們幾乎腰斬只剩下10.7萬而且在這當中我們是砸了5931億想解決少子女化的問題結果花了這麼多錢然後投入了這麼多資源"},{"start":289.929,"end":296.392,"text":"沒有半點幫助之外還腰斬了這真的是一個值得我們去省思的問題那我舉一個例子好了舉韓國的例子過去呢韓國是我們少子女化的難兄難弟我們差不多是同樣的狀況"},{"start":307.978,"end":324.03,"text":"但是他們2023年生育率那時候是低谷全球最低在0.72但是在2024年他們為了因應這個危機成立了人口戰略企劃部結果他馬上有成效"},{"start":325.111,"end":329.713,"text":"韓國的生育率已經連續兩年止跌回升2025年他們的生育率已經重新重返0.8新生兒人數呈現正成長還創下他們四年來的新高那主委你有研究過為什麼韓國可以而且他們是短短兩年內就開始逆轉成功這個是不是值得我們借鏡呢"},{"start":352.16,"end":370.958,"text":"這個部分我們會參考一下南韓以及新加坡的一些資料然後我們看說有沒有什麼地方可以進進不過跟委員報告一下就是說這個部分我們也會去跟那個陳時中政委那邊以及衛福部那邊做協調啦但這不是我們國防會督導的這個部分"},{"start":370.998,"end":377.42,"text":"我知道,但是你要建議啊,否則你國花費怎麼都不歸你管,根本就是不是一盛情啊我們會去參考一些南韓...國家發展都歸你管啊,我們人都沒了,還管什麼南韓跟新加坡的一些成功的一些方法,然後我們來做一些...我現在就告訴你關鍵在於哪裡關鍵在於政府有沒有覺得這是一個嚴重的事情有啊,當然有"},{"start":396.385,"end":398.628,"text":"政府有沒有決心說這件事情是我們國家要面對的嚴峻的困難會會我想韓國跟我們最大的不一樣就在於韓國他除了發放津貼還有各項的福利政策之外"},{"start":411.584,"end":427.134,"text":"他們更勇於去規定企業要接入育嬰福利而且大幅提升男性育嬰價的比例那韓國是政府帶頭聯手企業多管齊下在催生"},{"start":427.734,"end":431.438,"text":"那反觀我們 我們就是停留在撒幣發錢的這個傳統思想就不敢用國家的公權力去調整整個生養的環境我們國內就是男性申請育嬰的那一個比例有很大的一個進步是 但是我的意思是說你決心要拿出來啊"},{"start":449.995,"end":476.294,"text":"整個生養的環境是要政府帶頭去聯動企業把它帶起來否則你知道女性求職她一知道你懷孕了你可能就是下一個要被砍掉的人就是你了這個就是一個文化的問題嘛我們的企業不知道說要去保護我們的下一代甚至這些都是我們珍貴的國家資源嘛所以呢我真希望說"},{"start":478.075,"end":482.259,"text":"主委能夠真的大刀闊斧拿出決心韓國可以力挽狂瀾我們怎麼可能不能而且我們不是沒錢我們這短短幾年投了5900多億你知道5900多億可以做多少事情我們投了這麼多錢還一直崩跌 可見現在投的錢是"},{"start":505.09,"end":517.299,"text":"就已經投到水裡去了所以我希望這個政府展現決心把政策力道完全的把它展現出來用國安層級的高度來面對少子女化的這個問題好不好好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉好 謝謝張家俊委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:23:42.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:23:43.672000+08:00","text":"主席，我想請葉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T11:23:43.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:23:44.232000+08:00","text":"請國發會葉主委。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:23:44.232000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:23:53.444000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:23:53.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:24:02.656000+08:00","text":"葉主委早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:24:02.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:24:12.258000+08:00","text":"好久沒有在質詢臺上碰面了，今天我想要跟主委討論的話題是有關於少子化的這個危機。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:24:12.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:24:50.260000+08:00","text":"根據統計，臺灣今年2月的新生兒數量僅有6,523人，創下單月歷史新低紀錄，與去年的同期相比更是呈現雪崩式的衰退，衰退了37.32%，少了3,884人，回顧去年2025年，全年的新生兒還有10.7萬人，但是以目前崩跌態勢來看，今年的新生兒總數恐跌破10萬大關。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:24:50.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:24:55.945000+08:00","text":"我想這不是危言聳聽，可能是目前的保守估計。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:24:56.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:03.071000+08:00","text":"我想請問主委，您認為今年臺灣還守得住10萬新生兒這個防線嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:03.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:05.212000+08:00","text":"我們努力鼓勵大家多多生育。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:07.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:13.021000+08:00","text":"我今天就要問你，你的努力在哪裡、你的實際的政策在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:13.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:14.882000+08:00","text":"我先繼續講一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:14.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:39.138000+08:00","text":"事實上，我認為國發會的人口推估一直過於樂觀，我翻出2020年國發會發布的人口報告，當時推估要到2054年新生兒才會跌破10萬，結果現在的狀況就有可能在今年跌破，整整提早了28年！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:42.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:25:56.127000+08:00","text":"當然這不是你任內做的模型，也不是你任內做的報告，但是我相信這是一個嚴重的脫節，那麼民眾怎麼能夠相信現在政府推出的少子化對策真的能夠對症下藥呢？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:25:56.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:10.334000+08:00","text":"尤其我們從2018年成立的少子化辦公室，到現在你知道花了多少錢了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:10.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:12.315000+08:00","text":"剛剛鄭正鈐委員有大概看了一下。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:12.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:13.616000+08:00","text":"多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:13.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:14.416000+08:00","text":"一千多萬吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:14.416000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:17.318000+08:00","text":"一千多億元。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:17.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:21.620000+08:00","text":"一千多萬跟一千多億，你知道差多少嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:21.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:28.644000+08:00","text":"我算了，總共編列了高達5,931億。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:28.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:30.285000+08:00","text":"委員，你那是累計的吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:30.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:31.506000+08:00","text":"當然是累計的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:32.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:33.341000+08:00","text":"5,931億就算是累計也很高啦，8年耶。對。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:33.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:33.421000+08:00","text":"是多少錢耶！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:33.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:26:59.425000+08:00","text":"結果這些錢花下去了，不但沒有成效還產生崩跌的效應，國發會有沒有思考一下，現在是哪裡沒有落實還是你的方向不正確才導致這樣子的結果呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:26:59.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:27:43.880000+08:00","text":"因為就是臺灣面對到很嚴重的不婚不生這個問題，我在中研院的同事也有做研究，關於目前我們的補助對於是不是能夠引導適齡婦女去生育的效果看起來好像沒有那麼的強，所以變成我們可能要有另外一個思考，我們目前在推的政策可能有部分要做一些滾動式的檢討，所以在少子女化對策計畫2.0這部分，是希望從「孕、養、育、住、職」這五大方向來看可不可以讓我們少子化不要那麼嚴重……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:27:44.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:28:06.755000+08:00","text":"我跟主委建議，這一個可能會是你主委任內最能夠做出成績的一件事情，而且也是最能夠影響臺灣的一件事情，因為人力即國力，我們人口一直減少，這是一個國安危機，而且這是你最能夠凸顯出你在主委任內最能夠有的作為，你要想喔！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:28:06.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:28:36.431000+08:00","text":"2018年我們的出生人口還有18.1萬，到了2025年我們幾乎腰斬，只剩下10.7萬，而且在這當中，我們是砸了5,931億想解決少子女化的問題，結果花了這麼多錢，然後投入了這麼多資源，沒有半點幫助之外，還腰斬了，這真的是一個值得我們去省思的問題。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:28:36.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:09.212000+08:00","text":"我舉一個例子好了，舉韓國的例子，過去韓國是我們少子女化的難兄難弟，我們差不多是同樣的狀況，但是他們2023年的生育率是低谷，全球最低，在0.72%，但是在2024年，他們為了因應這個危機成立了人口戰略企劃部，結果馬上有成效，韓國的生育率已經連續兩年止跌回升，2025年他們的生育率已經重返0.8%，新生兒人數呈現正成長，還創下他們4年來的新高。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:09.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:09.972000+08:00","text":"主委，你有研究過為什麼韓國可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:09.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:11.693000+08:00","text":"而且他們是短短兩年內就開始逆轉成功，這個是不是值得我們借鏡呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:34.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:52.938000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們會參考一下南韓以及新加坡的一些資料，然後我們看看有沒有什麼地方可以精進，不過跟委員報告一下，這個部分我們也會去跟陳時中政委那邊以及衛福部那邊做協調，但這個不是我們國發會督導的部分。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:52.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:54.198000+08:00","text":"我知道，但是這個你要建議啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:54.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.079000+08:00","text":"否則你國發會什麼都不歸你管，你根本就是無事一身輕啊！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.199000+08:00","text":"是不是？沒有！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.519000+08:00","text":"我們會，我們會去參考一些南韓……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:55.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:56.339000+08:00","text":"國家發展都歸你管，我們人都沒了還管什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:56.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:57.439000+08:00","text":"南韓跟新加坡成功的一些方法，然後我們來做一些適當的建議……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:57.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:59.060000+08:00","text":"我現在就告訴你關鍵在哪裡，關鍵在於政府有沒有覺得這是一個嚴重的事情……有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:29:59.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:29:59.400000+08:00","text":"當然有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:18.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:19.847000+08:00","text":"政府有沒有決心說這件事情是我們國家要面對的嚴峻困難……會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:19.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:51.095000+08:00","text":"我想韓國跟我們最大的不一樣，就在於韓國除了發放津貼，還有各項福利政策之外，他們更勇於規定企業要揭露育嬰福利，而且大幅提升男性育嬰假的比例，韓國是政府帶頭聯手企業多管齊下在催生，反觀我們，我們就是停留在撒幣發錢的這個傳統思想……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:51.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:52.095000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:52.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:53.095000+08:00","text":"跟委員分享……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:51.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:51.516000+08:00","text":"而不敢用國家的公權力去調整整個生養環境……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:51.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:30:52.517000+08:00","text":"我們國內男性申請育嬰的比例有很大的進步，以往大概只有個位數，現在都已經快40、50%了。","quality":0.528},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:30:52.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:24.744000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，政府的決心要拿出來，整個生養環境是要政府帶頭聯動企業把它帶起來，否則你知道女性求職，企業一知道你懷孕了，可能你就是下一個要被砍掉的人！","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:24.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:26.065000+08:00","text":"對，就是這個部分我們……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:26.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:29.127000+08:00","text":"這就是一個文化的問題……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:29.127000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:30.127000+08:00","text":"對，就是一些價值觀跟文化的部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:29.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:41.076000+08:00","text":"我們的企業不知道要去保護我們的下一代，甚至不知道這些都是我們珍貴的國家資源，所以我真的希望主委能夠大刀闊斧拿出決心，韓國可以力挽狂瀾，我們怎麼可能不能！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:41.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:31:42.958000+08:00","text":"而且我們不是沒錢，我們這短短幾年投了五千九百多億，你知道五千九百多億可以做多少事情嗎？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:31:43.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.039000+08:00","text":"我們投了這麼多錢還一直崩跌，可見這些錢是已經都投到水裡去了，所以我希望政府能夠展現決心，把政策力道完全展現出來，用國安層級的高度來面對少子女化的問題，好不好？好，會！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.139000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.139000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.299000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝張嘉郡委員，主委先回座。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T11:32:19.799000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T11:32:22.941857+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請賴士葆委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}