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11:38:23","會議時間":"2026-03-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.16096875,"end":6.8990937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":9.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.185343750000001,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.602843750000002,"end":13.277843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.20596875,"end":16.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.12534375,"end":24.617843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.97221875,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.74846875,"end":66.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.98346875,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.15971875000001,"end":73.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.48784375000001,"end":81.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.45346875,"end":78.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.54159375,"end":159.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.84096875,"end":83.17409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.52721875,"end":118.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.47221875000001,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.02909375,"end":120.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.51846875000001,"end":120.68721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.52909375000002,"end":172.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.16409375,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.17659375000002,"end":233.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.64346875,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.18846875000003,"end":278.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.44784375,"end":248.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.82284375,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.62346875000003,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.96471875000003,"end":289.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.55096875000004,"end":311.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.55409375,"end":297.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.90846875,"end":297.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":311.12159375000005,"end":314.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.83846875,"end":314.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.22659375,"end":319.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.71534375000005,"end":323.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.91284375000004,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.31784375,"end":326.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.59596875,"end":336.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.79284375000003,"end":335.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.07971875000004,"end":373.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.93596875000003,"end":338.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.54034375000003,"end":358.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.55721875,"end":358.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.59096875,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.96409375,"end":377.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.49096875000004,"end":378.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.18284375,"end":396.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.88034375,"end":399.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.95159375000003,"end":415.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.86909375000005,"end":418.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.66596875000005,"end":424.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.95221875000004,"end":427.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.52971875000003,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.11159375000005,"end":466.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.16221875,"end":429.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.78909375,"end":495.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.20659375,"end":497.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.84346875000006,"end":500.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.19721875000005,"end":515.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.84096875,"end":514.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.6003437500001,"end":515.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.98409375,"end":516.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.96284375,"end":521.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.89471875,"end":521.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.13096875,"end":521.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.9409687500001,"end":527.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.12659375,"end":523.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.6953437500001,"end":529.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.99471875,"end":553.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.7365937500001,"end":533.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_0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因為他項目他有三百多項啦對 那有的是一個月買一次有的是一年買一次不不不 仔細講我講的是你我大家外食族都感受到的過去可能我們買三菜一湯可能是一千一千二好了假設一千二好了我覺得可能夠四五個人吃我們現在發現說可能看起來沒漲價但是份量變小了三四個人吃不飽"},{"start":103.004,"end":118.519,"text":"要不然就各個單品 剛才羅秘財委員講說滷肉飯變貴了現在大多是外食族跟租屋族都特別體感通膨的狀況特別的 感受特別的深刻妳同意我的說法嗎"},{"start":120.7,"end":142.638,"text":"所以就是說帳面上的我們的去年的通膨控制的好像還不錯但是特別是像今年一二月CPI帳目上看起來是呈現收斂的狀況但是卻因為春節的因素所以其實去年的基期偏高所以很多人都會說通膨看起來好像是假象民眾的體感通膨還是非常深刻"},{"start":144.199,"end":172.486,"text":"譬如說我在今年一月份的時候我就特別質詢了去年十月份店家上漲但是從十一月份開始我們的瓦斯已經連漲三個月也就是每公斤持續上漲了3.15塊其實這個數字我們看起來好像不多連續三個桶裝瓦斯每公斤上漲3.15塊看起來好像不多但是對於做外賣小吃夜市"},{"start":174.195,"end":200.664,"text":"那個老闆感受都特別深所以相對的我剛才講的外食族他就開始都整個漲上來那今年當然我們變今年變動實在是太多我們都很多會發生的事情其實我們都想像不到你我都想像不到包括中東的議題包括這個雖然看起來我們去年關稅大戰然後關稅看起來好像定案然後現在又有一波不同的變數你就是說"},{"start":202.245,"end":228.734,"text":"我覺得我們政府應該要有好幾套劇本雖然這些現狀這些變動的因素都不是我們樂意看到的但是很顯然的面對這些因素我們政府要去想好多不同的劇本過去我們覺得不可能發生的我們都要把所有的狀況想到極致來去做因應你同意那包括在中東的油價現在也是賣方的市場"},{"start":229.514,"end":247.49,"text":"雖然說我們現在都說我們跟亞洲其他國家調貨我們中東買不到我們過去跟天然氣跟卡達買20%、35%那個數字我等一下後面會有但是我們跟其他國家調貨也很多人都在搶貨所以還是價格漲還是賣方市場所以價格還是上漲的所以後續整個影響到我們整體台灣通膨的狀況其實還是有"},{"start":256.477,"end":278.176,"text":"那到底我們今年看起來你們的公佈在ART公佈之後我們今年上升率是1.68但是那是在當時原油的價格我記得當時原油的價格差不多每桶大概在67塊不到70塊嘛對不對那現在已經到今天為止我剛剛查了一下數據找到美工機長"},{"start":279.598,"end":289.486,"text":"漲到105到今天價格是105塊所以這個推估你覺得未來還會不會再調整"},{"start":290.629,"end":291.089,"text":"我知道"},{"start":312.4,"end":319.806,"text":"所以妳也認為它會超過2%是 那我們隨時會做因應那超過2會不會超過2.25或2.5這個差距就非常大非常大 這個我也不敢講因為我必須要看我們整個每一個月的一個狀況包括它的一個情況 包括它的"},{"start":336.178,"end":358.593,"text":"好 我大概懂妳意思我們有了這些數字工具其他的就是各部會的因應策略對不對 我們要苦民所苦嘛這是我剛剛講政府要好幾套劇本雖然我們現在有在油電的部分我們做動漲的動作但是我們都知道所有的物價的漲幅它不會只有油電的因素而已"},{"start":359.053,"end":377.185,"text":"包括鋁 糖 尿素包括硫磺等等化肥等等 氦氣等等這些大眾物資也受到戰爭的影響也會影響到我們整個國家各個產業的原物料所有當外食族這些在漲其實其他的貨物也都在漲是的"},{"start":380.007,"end":396.257,"text":"那這個價格也都在漲所以這個衝擊是非常的大那我們手邊到底我們有哪些工具我們現在可以動漲但是我們也擔心說後面當恢復的時候那個一彈很高就像我們每彈瓦斯一樣那個數字就會非常可怕"},{"start":396.977,"end":418.345,"text":"我們剛剛也講了就是那個那個中油還有台電它相關天然氣的一個部分呢它在三四月它已經有優先去取得了所以再來就是五月以後的一個數字所以我們整個月就會根據這些各種狀況所以如果這樣子漲下去的話明年我們補貼台電的費用要增加"},{"start":419.586,"end":430.116,"text":"所以這個部分要請委員來支持我們該支持的合理的不可抗力的因素我們當然會支持政策的因素我們必須支持我們去年強化任性的預算到114年底我們編列了2794億"},{"start":442.788,"end":463.157,"text":"我們累積的實現數字有86億當然有一大部分原因是因為普發現金那普發現金我把它算進去的話大概還有2400億所以我們將近有400億當時我們還沒有用還沒有實現所以在去年其實我們已經有預估到關稅的問題當然還沒有今年中東的戰爭所以"},{"start":468.059,"end":486.908,"text":"沈縣長你對於目前執行的狀況有什麼具體的建議跟規劃的方向嗎其實早在去我們去年114年我們還有400億還沒有花欸但是我們都已經可以遇到包括產業的衝擊包括農業的衝擊雖然最後的關稅還沒談定貿易關稅還沒談定但我們就一直在預估說這個對台灣某一些包括藥品包括農業的衝擊會非常的大所以沈縣長你在這一塊"},{"start":496.272,"end":500.134,"text":"你如何去監督各部會這是我第一個問題好 謝謝委員關心這個韌性的這個部分我們也非常關心大概當時這個韌性特別預算是差不多花三年三年度的預算我知道三年但是我們現在跟時間在跑我們沒有趕快及時及時與沒有去救那些產業的話"},{"start":522.003,"end":527.346,"text":"很多員工 很多產業公司都關門 員工就已經解職了所以怎麼還會有400億放在那邊我不應該說不去花 應該趕快去跟各部會瞭解其實去年他們貿易關係還沒談定的時候 我們大家都知道農業是第一波一定會衝擊 因為美國那些黃小玉一定是要進來的"},{"start":544.856,"end":571.822,"text":"早就應該要處理了怎麼還要放400億在那邊不去跟產業各部位怎麼沒有去跟產業做溝通所以沈縣長我要提醒你這個就是要去跟經濟部抵下其實我們沈縣部應該要去了解的地方對 我們有開過這個分率法院藍綠大家共同通過這個版本給你錢你不去趕快我不要講說不去花你應該好好的趕快去執行什麼還會放在那邊呢我們都在追了"},{"start":572.382,"end":579.186,"text":"我們現在在追他 有的都那個執行率只有3% 4%啦這些對現在的一個情況影響得到 我會當同意委員的意見所以我們現在已經專案在追 這是執行率的問題包括那個普發現金 應該已經花過很久了都還沒有再接報 造成的執行率不是挺好看的"},{"start":598.737,"end":618.262,"text":"主席長 審計長我最後 我不要佔用別人時間其實我認為我們現在很多產業 很多中小企業經營得非常辛苦我們在跟時間賽跑既然立法院大家有共同的共識通過這些任性預算我們應該趕快好好的去花"},{"start":619.302,"end":631.317,"text":"不會說還有400億放在那邊不去趕快去救急主席想 沈議長你了解我意思那另外最後就是說我們今年我們今年我本來預估經濟成長大概只有3年50後來因為貿易關稅談定到7.1%但是現在"},{"start":635.942,"end":640.206,"text":"大環境又在變動所以我想問一下主計長我們今年的經濟成長後續還會再調整嗎因為現在面對包括美日的衝突油價的飆升美國接下來有可能會有停滯通膨的問題那我們還會不會再下修我們現在的經濟成長率"},{"start":656.087,"end":680.201,"text":"我們是經濟撐拿率是每三個月調整修正我知道我知道還會再下修嗎我們必須在五月中旬那我們必須看各種狀況來做調整那你認為還會再下修嗎我現在還沒有辦法去看因為我們一二月整個的一個部分是狀況是還不錯那第二個還必須要看戰爭它是怎麼持續那第三個其實關稅我只是想你不要回答我說"},{"start":681.161,"end":692.679,"text":"你還要再看因為其實做政府就要去做很多的預測你才知道要對症下藥我們有哪些政府的工具可以去救可以去處理你現在跟我講說你不知道我覺得這個答案是不及格"},{"start":696.264,"end":716.937,"text":"你現在來講數據還沒有出來我也沒辦法告訴你說大概是但是你一定是跟院長報告你一定會跟院長報告說數字有可能下修所以我們現在各部會要做什麼事情嗎因為數據還沒有出來啦我知道數據還沒有出來但是你可以去做預估嘛是要預估是要那個所以我現在問你所以你預估數字會下修還是會上漲好 謝謝你不要不敢講"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}