{"error":false,"id":["167554"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167554,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167554","日期":"2026-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-18T09:28:28+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-18T09:42:53+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad6053bee7146cda5d7a8db086282839459da0f13775304d9d746a8ee19690b6fa94555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:28:28 - 09:42:53","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及19日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.99659375,"end":9.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.76846875,"end":6.0553437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.801593750000002,"end":11.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.15471875,"end":19.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.234718750000003,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.402843750000002,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.836593750000002,"end":61.219718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.62471875000001,"end":84.23721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.37221875,"end":86.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.69659375,"end":90.17721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.02096875000001,"end":91.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.89846875,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.31471875000001,"end":104.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.59659375000001,"end":124.78784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.30284375000001,"end":126.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.44159375000001,"end":148.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.85221875000002,"end":145.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.82659375,"end":153.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.25659375,"end":149.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.53034375000001,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.23221875000002,"end":170.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.02534375000002,"end":172.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.81409375,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.29471875000002,"end":175.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.86784375000002,"end":217.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.01721875,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.57909375000003,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.53221875000003,"end":227.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.54471875000002,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.78909375,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.96596875,"end":234.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.69096875000002,"end":233.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.00284375,"end":250.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.73846875,"end":265.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.18346875000003,"end":268.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.01846875,"end":273.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.86159375,"end":274.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.97534375000004,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.79721875,"end":281.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.00346875,"end":318.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.09971875,"end":316.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.17971875,"end":330.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.08471875000004,"end":340.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.66971875,"end":341.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.83409375,"end":349.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.13221875000005,"end":351.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.70596875,"end":352.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.44409375000004,"end":376.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.62034375,"end":362.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.10846875000004,"end":369.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.09534375000004,"end":371.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.89221875000004,"end":378.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.65971875,"end":388.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.62971875000005,"end":381.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.87846875,"end":382.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.24096875000004,"end":386.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.36284375,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.20659375,"end":411.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.97909375,"end":415.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.25284375,"end":419.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.33284375000005,"end":418.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.52659375,"end":422.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.25596875,"end":459.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.30659375000005,"end":425.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.77221875000004,"end":444.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.51846875,"end":446.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.42471875,"end":456.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.10721875,"end":457.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.67659375000005,"end":459.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.95909375,"end":474.60659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.97971875,"end":464.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.92721875,"end":507.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.69409375000004,"end":540.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.2465937500001,"end":539.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.57534375,"end":564.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.0515937499999,"end":543.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.77721875,"end":547.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.3334687500001,"end":548.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.6453437499999,"end":552.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.30284375,"end":557.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.0365937500001,"end":564.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.34784375,"end":564.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.43221875,"end":597.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.8490937500001,"end":615.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.6584687500001,"end":603.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.0122187500001,"end":606.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.7209687500001,"end":608.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.4328437500001,"end":616.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.68159375,"end":624.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.35221875,"end":617.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.71034375,"end":655.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.86096875,"end":674.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.42346875,"end":675.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.26721875,"end":695.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.51721875,"end":699.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.85409375,"end":708.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.20346875,"end":707.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.51534375,"end":708.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.9497187500001,"end":732.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.1184687500001,"end":709.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.08846875,"end":714.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.2734687500001,"end":716.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.47159375,"end":718.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.13784375,"end":723.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.57534375,"end":728.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.03096875,"end":729.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.7690937500001,"end":747.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.1672187500001,"end":807.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.48721875,"end":825.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.19721875,"end":838.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.46596875,"end":835.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.30534375,"end":840.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.2922187500001,"end":845.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.02971875,"end":849.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.2022187500002,"end":854.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.5009687500001,"end":858.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":854.9353437500001,"end":855.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":856.01534375,"end":862.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":861.43221875,"end":864.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":865.70159375,"end":866.0559687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.017,"end":9.108,"text":"也很歡迎陳昭之委員加入我們思維會謝謝主席 有請部長 鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":18.668,"end":37.142,"text":"部長早安部長你看到我今天的題目詐騙集團比法務部更懂得利用刑法因為刑法是由法務部由你們來主管那我會形容詐騙某一些領域他的犯罪他的罪犯是在跟法務部賽跑"},{"start":38.183,"end":46.106,"text":"但是我覺得詐騙集團這個部分,顯然法務部落後了很多好,那我今天就是要跟部長來談這個詐騙集團的部分部長,2024年卓院長上任,他講的這個口號,鄭天祥你看看,你看看右邊,他說我會讓詐騙想騙的不敢騙,已經騙的會被抓"},{"start":61.733,"end":85.859,"text":"已經到手的梅德花信誓旦旦讓全民宣誓就是說國家這個打詐隊要有這個決心但是兩年過去了防部身為打詐這個國家隊的一個重要成員有讓我們看到成效嗎現在我們的感覺就是想詐騙的繼續騙已經騙到的不一定會被抓騙到手的大筆花"},{"start":91.038,"end":100.867,"text":"部長整個司法系統無論是警察無論是檢察官或是法官我知道都被這些詐騙案件簡直是癱瘓掉了部長您覺得是哪些環節出了問題呢"},{"start":106.916,"end":120.035,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個一個打架的一個國家隊那個成立就是說我們在行政院有一個打詐的一個指揮中心那法務部也有一個打"},{"start":123.42,"end":137.21,"text":"老闆部長更簡要的就是說您覺得哪些環節出問題我認為是我們這個打架國家隊的一個大家的一個努力事實上這是有成效的因為我們可以看出來一個指標就是打架一個儀表板的一個數據"},{"start":138.351,"end":147.735,"text":"那在今年二月 上個月 其實較去年同期已經顯著的下降所以這個是有成效的受理件數已經降了27.6% 財損的金額降了23%部長謝謝你 因為您提的數字 等一下我有別的數字我想這個是一個最精準的一個數字那整個新收的件數 那因為我們查貨的兆頭 查貨的增加了"},{"start":161.681,"end":172.405,"text":"增加了那個那個查獲的兆團3903件的比去年那個那個成長很多也就是說我們這個氣焰這個氣焰油壓下去壓下去那另外那個查獲的利得那個"},{"start":178.488,"end":183.693,"text":"歷得了也330億那透過偵查中的調解到56億我也是這一組新手好 謝謝部長的說明部長因為政府宣稱要抓這個騙子結果抓到的往往是我今天指的是打詐的部分往往抓到就是被找去當車手的孩子"},{"start":196.307,"end":203.633,"text":"我們來看看這個在令人心驚膽戰的數字請部長參考就是2024年警政的統計官方是最後9月到12月4個月全台灣抓了5123名的少年的嫌犯部長你知道當中有多少年輕人是被打詐欺團黑化了嗎就是說有多少是涉及詐欺你有這個數字嗎"},{"start":219.092,"end":224.774,"text":"這部分因為這是少年事件有人知道嗎?5123名少年罪犯當中有多少是跟詐欺有關的嗎?跟委員報告因為這個少年的事件是屬於司法院主管所以要問司法院的數據就會精準我來告訴部長是有超過三分之一是34.37就是有1761名的詐欺少年我要跟部長講的是更離譜的"},{"start":245.242,"end":264.984,"text":"高達72.63%都是在第一線擋子站的車手當少年把日領、面膠這種當作暑假打工的一個工具請問部長 法務部除了宣導除了告訴孩子們說你們要負的法律責任之外這些孩子一旦留下前科"},{"start":266.226,"end":272.491,"text":"他甚至可能要附帶這個做民事賠償的這個連帶的這個賠償他們的人生等於還沒有開始就毀了耶部長這個數字您不知道我來告訴你三分之一的少年嫌犯是涉及煞車其中73%是當車手我想我都跟那個委員的立場都一致非常關心少年的一個被詐團的利用那事實上我們這個法律我們這次詐毀條例有修法就是"},{"start":294.529,"end":315.804,"text":"教所幫助利用少年來共犯詐欺罪有加重刑責的二分之一那其實這個委員有關心這個跟少女事件處理法這就是司法院主管的法規那這份據我了解因為司法院對少女事件處理法這部分對少年的這部分的這些犯罪的一個問題尤其我想這個司法院有做一個會檢討的謝謝部長講的就是說加重刑罰但我今天有另外的觀點"},{"start":322.349,"end":349.637,"text":"我前面提到的是少年掉進這個詐騙集團他的陷阱困境但是從新聞我們又發現詐騙罪犯往往只抓得到車手請問警察同仁這麼辛苦每年抓了大概上萬名的車手那為什麼詐騙事件還是跟蟑螂一樣抓不完打不死部長知道基層的警員跟這個檢察官他們最感到無力的部分是什麼嗎你可不可以很簡單的講他們覺得最無力的部分是什麼"},{"start":351.821,"end":375.77,"text":"就一個觀點我想這個大家都很辛苦啦不是只有警察辛苦警察辛苦我們真的是勞苦公關我們要以很大的他們感到無力的點你有去了解嗎謝謝那我想我們班難的團內不是只有警察還有檢察官還有我們調查局的一個工人都非常的一個辛苦那我想大家一起努力也不要去因為教團的我等一下再給你繼續看數字啦"},{"start":377.871,"end":387.317,"text":"然後我想兆團經過大家的努力從那個跨機關的合作還有公司的協力我想這部分兆團這部分公司要有氣焰最高的限我們把它壓下來而且反轉的趨勢這個詐騙集團把少年當作什麼呢黑幫免洗塊的一個斷點我們抓到的永遠是冰山一角你花了這麼多的人力去打擊這個罪犯但對這些少年而來說他們都是免洗塊用過即丟"},{"start":403.967,"end":410.27,"text":"請問法務部這些躲在少年背後的成年主嫌,你現在有沒有更強硬的方法?有嗎?有或沒有?細節我可以不太記得,你有沒有去想過對這個背後的主嫌辦,例如說強硬的方法?"},{"start":424.072,"end":438.788,"text":"檢警都在抓這個少年後面的我們向他說有後面的操作的這些集團這些的組謀那我們希望透過這些少年事件處理法以及現在的一個機制我們看能不能拿到少年能夠做少年的筆錄"},{"start":439.429,"end":443.632,"text":"但是很多委員包括我們現在對少年的比喻我們現在沒辦法做少年的比喻所以這部分很困難另外我們也跟我們各地檢署也跟法院這邊也做一個協調是不是說少年可以給我們獲得這個比喻可以給我們我們追溯少年把這些可惡的這些幕後的這些集團給揪出來"},{"start":460.061,"end":464.745,"text":"你看這個你們會說一定有在努力啦你看看這個法務部的數據你看這個法務部的數據喔這個不包含高檢署都是近三年來從各地地檢署的這個受理這個詐欺罪案案件被告他申請定職時刑"},{"start":475.334,"end":479.377,"text":"的一個件數你看2023年是3109件2023年是3508件到了去年是達到4340件六都的地方這個件數連年攀升那其中這個台中的地檢署增加的最快你看這個橘黃色的這個部分所以說定因執行型的這個被當作詐團集團的招募人才的工具啦"},{"start":500.189,"end":507.394,"text":"一方面檢察官也累壞了法官也累壞了因為工作量太大部長你知道詐騙集團現在都把這個用定執行制度招攬車手小弟招攬這個犯罪成員嗎所以你看這個大攀升這是個警訊喔花這麼多時間力氣在追這個詐騙案但是在定執行的制度出了問題部長我給你看三個例子因為時間有限部長這是第一個我找了幾個定執行的案例給這個裁定給部長看"},{"start":529.068,"end":538.219,"text":"這一張張姓受刑人他這個詐欺犯了42次最後定執行刑事只有三年二個月您覺得合理嗎你暫時先不要問我我想這個是我後面還有更多我想這個是我們是不滿意所以我們要求我們有就宣導"},{"start":543.865,"end":547.069,"text":"因為訂執行人是法官訂的所以我們希望法官在訂執行人又具有他的妥當性能夠嚇阻這些造成的企業所以有跟委員報告所以如果訂執行人像委員這種我們是希望就是也要求檢察官能夠判告能夠糾正這些輕判的這些的現象"},{"start":564.548,"end":569.271,"text":"下面這個案子是高院裁定 原本台灣地安法院法官對他做11個詐欺犯罪的判定是8年6個月結果高院說 你看我把它框起來 那是他講的話刑刑恐將偏重過客 不服現代刑事政策及刑罰社會功能第一次犯罪才剛滿18歲 原審就付表各罪組應執行刑違有期徒刑8年6個月 容有過重"},{"start":588.783,"end":603.751,"text":"那他雖然認為被告抗告有利啊 就改成四年六個月 部長你看到這個定執行刑的裁定我再給你看這個數字我再看了那個檢察官 我看檢察官看到法官的這樣的一個定執行刑的裁定這個定執行刑我想也是不滿意啦 那所以因為解釋這個問題跟委員報告 我們是嚴厲修法 宿醉病法 定執行 這邊修法"},{"start":612.015,"end":618.182,"text":"所以那個集聚我們要再更合理我們今天就是討論這個重點我想這個委員點出這個問題那我們會修法來裁量裁量這邊能夠更合理台中地院的裁定更誇張囉黃姓請你看好這一張黃姓受刑人本來被宣告的刑度總共加起來是11年4個月"},{"start":633.459,"end":637.382,"text":"前面幾次都已經定過執行刑了請你看那個編號1349他本來被台中地院定為是三年六個月那編號2567的案件被台北地院定執行刑是一年兩個月最後受刑人又再申請一次把所有的案件一起定執行刑"},{"start":655.996,"end":673.029,"text":"三年六個月加一年兩個月本來是四年八個月然後這一次又少了兩個月那變成四年六個月所以這個案子是十一年四個月變成四年六個月部長你不覺得詐騙集團一直在利用司法資源利用司法對他們有利的地方"},{"start":674.529,"end":695.036,"text":"在一直犯罪一直申請這個定執行然後定完後因為還有其他案件他又把它加在一起再申請一訂再一次一定再訂刑度不斷的減少這就是我們耗費社會龐大的資源但卻得到這樣的結果難怪詐欺案件一直發生主謀抓不到這個車手抓不完部長這樣子你能接受嗎"},{"start":700.518,"end":707.141,"text":"我想這部分這部分的確是不合理不合理那我想這部分各案檢察官會勘告或訴訴那另外我覺得根本解決這部分我們要嚴厲來修法一定是先把它做一個比較合理的一個集據讓法官"},{"start":717.446,"end":722.871,"text":"在這個比較合理的話我們去做一個裁量這個要有行動 等一下我會給你一個時間我們會把委員這寶貴的一個建議我們會傳給檢討那好好的監督法院的再一個量體他看準了小孩子 設施衛生然後想賺快錢 這個是榮譽錢快錢然後又沉迷通訊軟體所以他用很輕鬆 日領 面膠這種鬼話當打工 他變成暑期打工"},{"start":744.87,"end":766.324,"text":"那個用六校園的網絡去做他們職業訓練場這個是成少共犯成年跟少年共犯結構現在變成這個少年嫌犯的主要的這個形態部長告訴我我跟你講很多人跟我說就是現在的生活環境包括這件事他們不敢生孩子也有這件事在裡面原因他說現在孩子除了要學習之外"},{"start":766.784,"end":777.006,"text":"他也要去抵抗教他們如何抵抗這個外界的這個誘惑所以部長就是我的意思說除了宣導你一定要有更強硬的手段斷掉這些伸向校園伸向孩子的這個黑手因為如果任由法律去處理這個這個他們會跟孩子說反正判很輕反正沒事最後會沒什麼事孩子們走向沉淪之路那台灣永遠擺脫不了詐欺亡國的這個名稱"},{"start":793.47,"end":822.6,"text":"所以我覺得他們不只是犯罪他們在蠶食精吞台灣的下一代所以部長你可不可以承諾我就是說你對這個定職行刑的一個行動的檢討我是不是可以很快可以有看到你們這樣的一個做法這部分委員報告我想第一我們會嚴厲修法讓法官在定職行刑這部分不會像發生像那個委員所提到的那一種的現象這第一點第二點就是在個案還沒完整修法之前我要求檢討要監督法院的一個判決也就是說"},{"start":823.28,"end":838.65,"text":"如果定職刑這邊這個是不合理那我們就會看告後上訴來做一個處理那我想委員的聲音我們也會如實的來跟希望我們檢察官能夠再反映在我們在求刑的這部分求刑我們會具體求刑希望法官能夠具體求刑我們再依照我們具體求刑來判你今天說的東西我當時可以看得到"},{"start":849.278,"end":862.254,"text":"這個我想我們會把我們的做法我們再做一個書面報告給委員做一個不要太久好嗎就你們的方向等等好嗎我們儘快把我們的一個做法我們也都在學習啦因為我們希望法官能夠聽得到委員寶貴的聲音啦謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}