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讓你分不清楚"},{"start":150.02,"end":163.688,"text":"還有我們常看到的退訂你要退出的流程很麻煩比如說你去買一張門票或者是我們經常使用的去訂一間旅館你會發現到最後你付的錢比你在"},{"start":164.848,"end":182.639,"text":"這個APP在網路上訂的價格高很多是因為它裡面它沒告訴你是比如說你去日本你訂一家旅館日本訂旅館是有稅金的是你也不知道稅金有幾%是你要抽多少還有它的一個手續費所以你可能到最後你以為你訂了一個十塊錢的"},{"start":183.78,"end":201.839,"text":"你付錢的時候可能是遠超於10塊啦13塊 14塊不一定喔是那這樣的讓消費者在資訊不清楚的狀態下我們稱為暗黑消費模式啦最近的爭議很多啦老部長你對這個事情你有看法"},{"start":202.259,"end":220.432,"text":"是委員提到這個問題真的是實在是非常不對這些電商不應該這樣做那我們也注意到了剛好我昨天已經簽到一個文就是我們那個素產署他們就是去修改了這個定型化契約電商的定型化契約以後就是要求這些"},{"start":221.992,"end":237.158,"text":"電商他不能把這些付款設定為預設就不能預設就是說我又使用這個服務他就開始扣我的款這個就不行那是不是請我們素產署的林署長補充說明一下好那等一下我待會讓他一起回答啦我們讓自己署長一起回答"},{"start":238.198,"end":263.898,"text":"第二個我說呢 退訂的很麻煩我再舉個例子給你看 你會比較清楚像那個庫篷 這是庫篷的退訂程序我去試一下你如果要加入 大概三個步驟就完成那你要取消 你看你要先到設定的先進去設定 然後點選會員方案然後再訂取消"},{"start":264.679,"end":282.654,"text":"那取消的話不是這樣就結束喔他會再挑一些優惠的方案告訴你再吸引你如果你不要他會再警示你你就會損失有多少然後你就會被降級囉哩吧嗦啦九個步驟你才可以退出啦"},{"start":284.315,"end":311.827,"text":"委員長這我感同身受因為我之前就是走剛剛走過這個流程對那這個其實是一個對消費者很麻煩那很不公平的一種類似消費陷阱那至於我們要請署長你說的我跟署長交換一下這韓國跟歐盟他已經很明確訂出那什麼叫暗黑消費模式他訂出有19種我不知道我們政府有沒有這樣的一個認定標準"},{"start":313.707,"end":327.23,"text":"比如說就像我剛提的 你要取消的那個步驟很麻煩或者是你隱藏一些支出費用 那消費者在點選的時候他並不清楚啦"},{"start":329.029,"end":348.103,"text":"或者是說消費者沒有購買的一些東西突然間因為你不小心誤觸什麼他會等於跳到你的購物車裡面所以你結帳的時候你如果沒有注意啊你會多買一些原本不是你需要的或者是說啊"},{"start":349.325,"end":361.254,"text":"強迫你自動續約你不清楚狀況下你會被續約還有消費者買到的產品跟最初你看到廣告中的產品不同等等 有19項來 署長你的看法"},{"start":364.308,"end":379.843,"text":"我們有沒有這樣的一個類似的一個研究我們目前發現就跟委員講的民眾最大的是三個困難第一個是定型化契約他們寫的太密太小第二個是這個取消定略的流程太複雜第三個是自動的扣款"},{"start":380.484,"end":406.813,"text":"那這三個我們因為我們管理這些電商是要用消保法所以用定期化契約我們在新修訂的定期化契約已經把這三個問題解決了包括他在定期化契約裡面一些重要的資訊要用大的文字另外的話他取消訂業的流程要簡化那第三個是要消費者明確同意才能扣款所以這在我們新修訂的定期化契約已經農入那剛剛委員講那個我們已經在要求他了"},{"start":407.688,"end":425.56,"text":"那我再給你參考你看國外他把這個暗黑的消費陷阱他寫的訂得非常詳細你看他包括你去引誘消費者去點擊不確定是否會廣告的東西那基本上是個廣告有時候他會用一些"},{"start":426.981,"end":450.371,"text":"虛假的東西比如說你要如何維護你的身體的健康怎麼樣等等引誘你點閱實際上都是要強迫你去接受一些廣告訊息或消費等等我希望你剛講的那個只是三個重要的那個樣態啦那暗黑消費陷阱裡面有非常多的陷阱啦所以很多國家都只好定法規"},{"start":451.471,"end":480.301,"text":"去明定限制它我給你看歐盟啦美國啦 韓國啦韓國甚至那個法案名稱就寫得更清楚啦線上暗黑模式自我管理指引那就針對19種就我剛給大家參考的還有19種你在網路上這個常看見的守法它就會進行裁法那我國啦我們台灣目前是沒有專法但是我們其實有一些相關的法"},{"start":481.363,"end":507.231,"text":"如果跨部會你們跟公平會再合作一點的話其實是可以更進一步來保護我們的消費者例如像我們公民交易法的21條和25條等等那這人在請部長要來在這邊要多多的來注意相關網路上因為現在網路的消費或使用網路服務已經是人民生活非常重要的一個一部分了"},{"start":507.871,"end":516.649,"text":"是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我們非常同意那我們會往這個方向持續加強改善好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:57.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:57.565000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:58.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:59.606000+08:00","text":"本席邀請數發部林部長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:59.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:59.826000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:59.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:00.046000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:00.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:00.146000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:00.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:43.438000+08:00","text":"部長，我今天想跟你討論關於民生的問題，民生問題最重要，關於一些網路上的消費、網路的服務以及有很多陷阱，所謂的暗黑消費爭議，這兩天有個很大的新聞是美國有一家很大的軟體公司──Adobe，它被美國聯邦政府送上法院，後來跟政府和解了，它要被罰大概48億臺幣。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:43.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:18.585000+08:00","text":"主要就是因為它利用服務的消費者，Adobe設了很多陷阱，其中最大的爭議就是譬如要取消訂閱非常困難，加入會員很容易，但是一旦加入以後，想要離開就很麻煩，甚至它還隱藏了取消訂閱還要付違約金等訊息，這種狀況造成很多消費者不滿。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:21.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:28.117000+08:00","text":"Uber也是，我們要加入Uber很簡單，想要退出卻很麻煩、很囉嗦！","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:30.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:39.938000+08:00","text":"美國政府發現這個問題很嚴重，引起很大的民怨，很多消費者都在抗議、抱怨，所以就直接處罰他們。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:40.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:43.538000+08:00","text":"引發訴訟之後，軟體公司Adobe也承認，就跟美國政府和解，賠了很多錢。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:55.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:08.409000+08:00","text":"針對所謂的暗黑消費，本席要請數發部特別注意類似這種使用網路服務或者在網路上消費所引起的爭議。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:11.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:23.599000+08:00","text":"很多消費者抱怨這些平臺或電商會把重要資訊隱藏起來，或者把一些消費拆得很細，讓你分不清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:25.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:29.662000+08:00","text":"還有我們常看到的退訂問題，要退出的流程很麻煩。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:29.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:04.626000+08:00","text":"比如買一張門票，或者是民眾經常使用的旅館訂房，可能會發現最後所付的錢比在app、網路上訂的時候多很多，因為它有一些資訊沒告訴你，比方你去日本要訂旅館，在日本訂旅館是要付稅金的，你也不知道稅金是百分之多少，還有手續費，你以為自己訂了一間10塊錢的，付錢的時候可能遠超過10塊，13塊、14塊都不一定。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:07.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:16.819000+08:00","text":"讓消費者在不瞭解相關資訊的情況下消費，我們稱之為「暗黑消費模式」，這方面最近的爭議很多，請問部長對此有何看法？","quality":0.653},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:17.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:23.804000+08:00","text":"委員提到的這種事情真的是非常不對，這些電商不應該這樣做，我們也注意到了。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:24.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:43.635000+08:00","text":"剛好我昨天簽到一個文，數產署修改了電商的定型化契約，要求電商以後不能把這些附款設定為預設，包括我只要使用這個服務，它就開始扣我的款，這個就不行。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:44.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:47.436000+08:00","text":"是不是請我們數產署林署長補充說明一下？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:48.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:52.138000+08:00","text":"等一下再請署長一起回答。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:53.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:21.360000+08:00","text":"第二，剛剛說到退訂很麻煩，我再舉個例子，這樣你會比較清楚像酷澎（Coupang）的退訂程序，我去試了一下，如果要加入，大概3個步驟就完成了，如果想取消，要先進去「設定」的頁面，點選「會員方案」，按「取消」，但不是這樣就結束喔！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:22.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:35.372000+08:00","text":"它還會跳出一些優惠方案來吸引你，如果你不要，它會警示你的損失有多少，你就會被降級，囉哩叭嗦啦！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:36.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:37.434000+08:00","text":"總共要9個步驟才可以退出。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:39.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:43.497000+08:00","text":"委員講的這個我感同身受，因為我之前就走過這個流程。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:44.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:50.360000+08:00","text":"對消費者而言，這其實是很麻煩、很不公平的事情，類似消費陷阱。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:52.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:06.807000+08:00","text":"我要跟署長交換一下意見，韓國和歐盟已經明確定義了19種暗黑消費模式，不知道我們的政府有沒有這樣的認定標準？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:08.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:55.594000+08:00","text":"比如剛剛講的，取消的步驟很麻煩、隱藏某些消費者點選時並不清楚的支出費用，或者是消費者沒有購買的東西，卻因為不小心誤觸什麼按鍵就跳到購物車裡面，結帳時如果沒有注意，就會多買一些原本不是自己需要的東西，還有強迫訂戶自動續約，在不清楚的狀況之下就被續約了，另外還有消費者買到的產品和最初在廣告中看到的產品不同等等，總共有19項。","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:55.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:56.234000+08:00","text":"署長，你的看法呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:56.234000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:59.869000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員給我們……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:59.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:01.711000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有做類似的研究？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:02.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:38.812000+08:00","text":"目前我們發現的就跟委員講的一樣，現在民眾最大的三個困擾第一是定型化契約寫得太密、太小，第二個是取消訂閱的流程太複雜，第三個是自動扣款，因為我們管理這些電商是要用消保法、透過定型化契約，所以我們新修訂的定型化契約已經把這三個問題解決了，包括在定型化契約裡面，重要的資訊要使用大的文字，另外是取消訂閱的流程要簡化，第三個是要消費者明確同意才能扣款，這些在我們新修訂的定型化契約已經融入了。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:40.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:41.793000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員講的那個，我們已經在要求他們了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:42.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:09:13.726000+08:00","text":"我再給你們參考，國外把暗黑消費陷阱訂得非常詳細，包括引誘消費者點擊不確定是否為廣告的頁面，這種廣告有時候會用一些虛假的東西，比如說要如何維護身體健康等等，引誘消費者去點閱，實際上都是要強迫消費者接受一些廣告訊息或是去消費。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:09:14.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:09:48.558000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的只是三個重要的樣態，暗黑消費裡面有非常多陷阱，所以很多國家只好透過法規明定予以限制，像歐盟、美國和韓國，韓國的法案名稱寫得更清楚：「線上暗黑模式自我管理指引」，針對19種網路上常見的手法進行裁罰。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:09:50.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:22.211000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣目前是沒有專法，但我們其實有一些相關的法規，如果你們和公平會多一點跨部會合作的話，其實可以更進一步來保護我們消費者，例如公平交易法第二十一條、第二十五條等等，這方面請部長多多注意，因為現在網路消費、使用網路服務已經是人民生活非常重要的一部分了。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:23.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:28.924000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝委員的提醒，我非常同意，我們會往這個方向持續加強改善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:30.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:31.128000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:31.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:31.128000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:31.628000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:34.485143+08:00","text":"謝謝林俊憲召委的質詢。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席（林委員俊憲）","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:34.785143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:35.928000+08:00","text":"非常感謝！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（林委員俊憲）","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:36.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:39.656571+08:00","text":"接下來邀請陳素月委員發言。","quality":0.167}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}