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現在介紹出席的部會官員因為出席的部會官員非常眾多那我們就以相關性的就是跟預算有相關性的主要的部會來做介紹那我們首先是經濟部郭志輝部長台灣電力公司曾文森董事長"},{"start":2059.259,"end":2063.242,"text":"國家發展委員會高先副主任委員農業部陳俊濟部長教育部鄭英耀部長內政部董建宏政次國防部薄宏輝副部長"},{"start":2088.424,"end":2114.196,"text":"公共工程委員會陳維祥副主委財政部阮清華政次海洋委員會張忠榮常務副主委兼海巡署署長交通部公共運輸及監理師胡副司長"},{"start":2117.182,"end":2140.204,"text":"文化部我們影音及流行發展師曾專委原住民委員會經濟發展處王處長法務部法治師謝副師長好 以上"},{"start":2142.878,"end":2158.822,"text":"那目前到場的我們的立法院同仁有鄭天才委員王振旭委員鍾嘉斌委員黃珊珊委員好謝謝那我們現在就開始針對法案名稱開始討論了那因為"},{"start":2173.058,"end":2191.256,"text":"所有的法案众多那我们是不是先以就是说请经济部先就我们就是行政院的版本以及国民党的版本还有民众党的版本做"},{"start":2192.915,"end":2221.266,"text":"重要的介紹我們先走一輪因為其實大家的意見會很分歧喔那我看到每個委員的版本好像都不是很相同那我們就先就主要的版本來進行相關的這個討論那請經濟部先說明行政院版本以及民眾黨國民黨版本還有民眾黨版本的法案名稱"},{"start":2244.246,"end":2257.638,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好經濟部所提出來的這個特別條例提案的版本一共有12個提案加上兩岸修正動議併案的協商對這個部分我想一共有"},{"start":2268.26,"end":2288.465,"text":"我們主要還是在強化這個經濟社會以及國土安全任性 儘量有這個必要及急迫性那行政院版本已經通盤考量各方面的需求普發現金有短暫效益但是並非最佳的解方可能這個分散政府支持的力度應該"},{"start":2291.089,"end":2318.05,"text":"集中國家的資源全力支持最需要的產業和國人國民健康與文化發展屬社會任性的範疇所以建請支持行政院的版本以上那對於其他委員的就是說對於國民黨以及民眾黨的版本那行政院的意見呢我們還是建請支持行政院的版本"},{"start":2320.931,"end":2322.572,"text":"因為這個法案名稱會涉及到那個條文的第三條"},{"start":2341.611,"end":2357.593,"text":"所以這個是不是就先保留因為第三條這個項目會跟這個這個法案名稱會有連帶關係包括第一條的立法目的都會有連帶關係以上好黃珊珊委員"},{"start":2361.291,"end":2379.678,"text":"好謝謝主席我想臺灣民眾黨版本的意見是一樣的主要還是這個是強化經濟社會韌性的部分我們認為已經包括相關的內容那更何況說內容涉及到名稱涉及到內容所以我們認為說這個三方的意見如果不一的話我們還是希望能夠保留好現在到場的是張祺凱委員"},{"start":2393.137,"end":2394.378,"text":"民進黨委員其實我們這麼多的版本其實都有到強化經濟社會這幾個大家都共同的還有韌性那至於說不太一樣的地方除了強化經濟社會韌性之外民進黨跟黨籍委員這邊行政院是強調國土安全"},{"start":2415.987,"end":2429.235,"text":"那麼國民黨有民眾消費全民消費或者說民生紓困或者說民眾消費等這議題那我想到底國土安全跟民眾消費哪一個比較符合韌性這個應該是顯而易見的啦"},{"start":2432.577,"end":2454.12,"text":"那至於經濟社會的韌性大家都有共識那至於接下來要在國土安全跟民眾消費怎麼樣比較符合所謂的韌性的這樣的定義呢我想剛剛有委員提到說要看到第三條那是不是我們這個名稱的部分呢就先暫時先暫保留到條文的時候我們再回過來看以上建議"},{"start":2457.008,"end":2481.778,"text":"要先討論還是先那個因為其實在行政院的版本跟國民黨的版本就前面這一個是一樣的就是因應國際情勢還有強化經濟社會那對於後面一個是國土安全韌性一個是國民黨的版本是民眾消費韌性"},{"start":2484.42,"end":2513.82,"text":"就這個部分是不是民眾黨對於我們在名稱上面是不是能夠達到共識因為畢竟現在目前我們也不是只有美國對等關稅的問題那還有其他的國際的情勢也產生了變化那是不是就這個名稱我們是不是能夠達到初步的就是簡易的共識以後我們再進行下面的就是說各條的條文討論"},{"start":2517.461,"end":2538.526,"text":"齊凱第一次發言因為現在看起來所有人提的就是因應國際情勢衝擊這個是有共識的那目前看起來比較大的爭議點就是我們台灣民眾黨認為說強化經濟跟社會韌性這個我看各黨的這個也是一樣的可是唯一比較不一樣是國土安全韌性這個要不要留著所以我建議先保留因為事實上昨天"},{"start":2539.446,"end":2548.92,"text":"賴清德賴總統都特別提了他在年底之前要提那個經費的這個特別預算這可能有些地方也會重疊啦所以我建議先把名稱先留下來好"},{"start":2550.418,"end":2570.688,"text":"那我們就按照所有在場的各黨團的意見因為我們對於這個名稱大家還有疑義所以是不是就把這個名稱先保留那我們開始討論後面的條文那現在進行"},{"start":2572.725,"end":2600.024,"text":"第一條立法目的的相關討論那是不是請經濟部先報告就是說各黨團的版本以及委員版本跟我們行政院版本的一個差異是 這個跟各位報告我們大概就是行政院的版本跟這個國民黨的版本就是只有這個名稱立法目的"},{"start":2601.129,"end":2627.302,"text":"那刪除國土安全加入普發現金這相關的內容譬如說這個促進消費民生紓困擴大內需這個部分大概有一點這個差異那跟民眾黨的版本名稱跟立法目的民眾黨的版本是要刪除國土安全的這個任性內容那我們行政院的認為說這個"},{"start":2630.263,"end":2658.842,"text":"強化經濟社會及國土安全認証均有必要跟急迫性但是行政院版就已經有通盤考量各方面的這個需求了那民眾黨的版本強調因應美國關稅導致重大的經濟變故這個是跟行政院版本大概有點差異的部分另外就是王振旭委員的版本就是要增加國民健康與文化發展的相關內容那"},{"start":2659.662,"end":2678.533,"text":"在我們的這個行政院版本在國民健康與文化的發展是屬於社會任性的範疇所以在這裡建請各位支持行政院版本好那我們在場委員王振旭委員"},{"start":2680.894,"end":2698.455,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是王振旭第一次發言那針對於剛剛郭副長所提到相關第一條的內容部分我們之所以會把國民健康跟文化發展會特別放進來除了剛剛郭副長所提到的"},{"start":2699.056,"end":2726.241,"text":"好像是屬於經濟社會的一部分事實上還是有他必須要再強化的部分那理由我想大家也都很清楚這次這個川普的關稅影響非常的大那在於雖然在後面第三條的第七款裡面有講到會針對全民健康保險基金會有挹注的部分事實上相對來講並沒有"},{"start":2728.041,"end":2743.571,"text":"完全涵掛到國民健康的部分我們也了解全民健康保險的費用基本上是以疾病為導向的韌性可是針對於未來我們要因應這些國際的變化尤其是在關稅變化的時候"},{"start":2745.516,"end":2759.831,"text":"藥物的韌性非常非常的重要那個藥物韌性其實也是讓我們的國民健康得到重要的保障那這個不只是健保的問題而已它含括的是更廣泛對國民健康的這個要求"},{"start":2761.073,"end":2778.19,"text":"所以我們很期待說在這次處理當中也把國民健康這個重要的議題還有這個重要的訴求可以納進來另外就是針對於未來當各個世界國家的原料要"},{"start":2779.011,"end":2793.631,"text":"目前大宗的出產是中國還有印度可是對於川普總統來講他期待的就是美國本身在使用這些原料藥的時候他的關稅需要能夠符合他們照顧美國"},{"start":2794.893,"end":2815.566,"text":"人品的這個用藥的需求這個會導致全球未來對這樣的掌控其實是非常非常不穩定所以我們希望能夠把這個重要的議題也能夠在第一條裡面就把它做一個完整的訴求那針對於這個文化發展的部分那大家也清楚的知道曾經川普他們針對於電影課稅100%"},{"start":2818.208,"end":2835.094,"text":"那這個對於未來台灣如果有關於這個提升藝文的產業希望也能夠落實的話我們也希望用這樣的特別條例把它納進來那這兩部分其實在上一次的這個報告裡面我們也跟這個主席"},{"start":2835.894,"end":2836.374,"text":"現在請黃珊珊委員"},{"start":2864.521,"end":2883.46,"text":"谢谢主席还有各位同仁我想特别条例它其实是要符合预算法83条的规定预算法83条有左列情势之一得于年度总预算外提出特别预算第一要国防紧急设施或战争"},{"start":2884.1,"end":2912.488,"text":"第二是國家經濟重大變故第三是重大災變第四不定期或數年一次的重大震勢也就是說我們現在面對的是特別預算它必須是國家經濟重大變故所謂的不定期或數年一次的重大震勢都不應該本來就是一個空白收取我們都不應該在特別預算裡面所以今天這個特別條例尤其是在野黨願意希望行政院能夠用"},{"start":2913.408,"end":2941.845,"text":"相關的特別預算來進行的主要是因為國家經濟重大變故的原因也就是說原來行政院版本裡面包括軍購他本來就會在總統所說的他接下來會提軍購特別預算有關老屋重建有關相關的人才招募這些都是他平常就該做的事我們認為國家經濟重大變故才是特別條例的精神所以台灣民眾黨版本其實已經非常的廣泛了"},{"start":2942.445,"end":2960.17,"text":"強化經濟跟社會韌性特別條例草案那這個內容其實已經包括可能行政院要加的或者是國民黨要加的我認為第一條的部分我們可以讓它就單純是經濟跟社會韌性而這中間其實應該要扣住所謂的國家有重大的經濟變故"},{"start":2961.83,"end":2985.154,"text":"現在因為變故才有特別預算的必要而不是包括什麼老屋重建這些全部都納到這個特別預算我們認為這樣的狀況會變成包山包海所以我們希望說在比較精簡的方式就是我們現在是因應國家重大變故強化經濟社會流行比較簡單但是一樣可以達到相關的目的鄭天才委員"},{"start":2995.776,"end":3011.405,"text":"這個國民黨團的版本跟本席的版本這個類似這主要就是因為因應這個美國關稅的這個政策所以經濟產業會受到影響農業這些產業也會受到影響當然直接的就是"},{"start":3016.368,"end":3039.064,"text":"一般的人民勞工農民也會受到更大的影響所以這個民眾的這個相關的這些包括擴大內需這些都必須一一納入考量所以這個部分第一條國民黨團的版本就是跟這個會跟第三條也都是有直接的關係以上說明好"},{"start":3042.665,"end":3056.236,"text":"現在請張祺凱委員那張祺凱委員發言完畢我們先請行政就是經濟部以及相關部會做對於委員所提的意見做相關的回覆然後再繼續二輪發言"},{"start":3057.797,"end":3071.35,"text":"今天我們在討論的是特別條例 特別條例後來要編列特別的預算剛剛珊珊有特別提的 特別預算的 就是預算法裡面的第83條這一次我們開始要貼4100億的特別條例跟預算最主要就是針對美國高關稅 對不對"},{"start":3079.946,"end":3093.678,"text":"美國高關稅就是所謂的預算法第83條裡面的重大經濟所以民眾黨裡面特別提到第一條就是說因應美國對等關稅跟國際情勢的衝擊因為國家的經濟重大變故所以我們才要編列本條例"},{"start":3099.904,"end":3123.516,"text":"那現在發現就是說行政院現在把那個國土安全安全這個國土安全任性這一塊把它放了進來那事實上這一塊就是在你在年度預算裡面已經有了跟特別預算應該是比較有衝突性的所以我們一直力主就是說把這個文字把它刪掉相關的這個預算回到年度預算來編因為你以前就有編你要的話你明年也可以編這是一種"},{"start":3123.976,"end":3152.975,"text":"那第二個我們最新的這個進度是賴清德總統昨天特別強調了他在今年底之前要提出經過的特別預算像這裡面的很多預算跟這個應該都是重疊的所以他第一個可以回到年度預算去第二個也可以用賴總統這個到時候的特別預算進入特別預算裡面再來做所以我建議把這個條文可以第一條可以採用台灣民眾黨這個版本因為老實講他這個是把國土安全任性這個把它拿掉之外然後也符合這原來的特別條例跟特別預算這個規範 謝謝"},{"start":3155.897,"end":3156.038,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":3171.409,"end":3185.585,"text":"受這個關稅的這個影響啊那麼開始我們會發現在這個中國因為中國他製造了很多東西會有外溢的現象他沒有辦法賣到美國去他開始有外溢現象外溢現象第一個會進來的就是在台灣"},{"start":3186.326,"end":3213.963,"text":"所以我們對這個部分說國土安全其實是我們在防止走私防止來台灣洗產地所以才會有這樣的一個名詞說這個國土安全我們主要的國土安全事實上因應國土安全來保護國內的產業不至於受到這樣的一個衝擊所以我在這裡強調國土安全是非常非常非常重要"},{"start":3217.349,"end":3235.75,"text":"好 我們現在請鐘嘉賓委員好 謝謝喔那麼當時在四月份的時候因為美國的關稅政策引發了一連串的連鎖反應餘波蕩漾或者說芳心未艾到前幾天我們看到了以色列跟伊朗"},{"start":3236.511,"end":3261.668,"text":"為了核設施開始進行了彼此對方的軍事攻擊不要小看這些事件背後環環相扣一開始或許大家認為國際情勢的變化似乎只限定於經貿但是我們看到了就算是經貿的議題一開始從關稅後來跳到了匯率 幣值的匯率的升降後來又跳到了美債的債息的利率的問題"},{"start":3262.549,"end":3282.137,"text":"我想這些環環相扣進一步引發了什麼事情?引發了包括美國對中國實施了晶片的一個禁運美國開始轉向跟阿拉伯國家達成了NVIDIA這樣的高階的未來AI所需要的智慧型晶片的一個貿易的一個交易"},{"start":3282.717,"end":3299.171,"text":"那也看到了中國回報以稀土的禁運造成了不只是世界汽車工業的生產線的停頓也甚至造成了連帶許多國家在國防上必要獲得的原料這些軍備所需要的原料的困難"},{"start":3299.992,"end":3317.28,"text":"所以我們認為前面所說的因應國際情勢的變化這個國際的情勢變化它的衝擊的正如剛剛幾位委員所提到的是預算法83條當中所說的為什麼你看這三款當中包含了什麼包含了國家緊急設施或戰爭"},{"start":3318.641,"end":3345.496,"text":"包含了國家經濟重大變故包含了重大災變其實當我們動用預算法第83條的時候就不能排除這三種狀況都可能是國際情勢變化當中所可能分治踏來的所以如果一開始只是著眼於4月9號那個時候美國總統川普宣布的他美國的關稅政策就以為我們其他國家所受到的衝擊僅限於經濟跟產業"},{"start":3348.197,"end":3368.173,"text":"我想這個是從現在的事情發展來講是可見當時行政院版本反倒是有預先的去因應到國土防衛的部分國土防衛不只是剛剛部長所說的查緝走私嚴防來洗產地而已說到洗產地目前我們的經濟產業的因應談了一個可能認為說跟這些國防最無關的"},{"start":3371.596,"end":3400.376,"text":"中國啤酒大局入侵我們現在行政院已經在對它進行一個反傾銷調查可能未來會處以反傾銷的暫時稅率防止這樣的經濟衝擊繼續擴大難道我國單單只就啤酒的產業不受到這個國際情勢的牽動嗎因此在這當中我們的第一條當中包含國民黨的黨團的版本跟行政院版本最大的差別是在於經濟產業後面行政院版加入了國土防衛"},{"start":3401.897,"end":3421.031,"text":"國民黨團的版本只著重在民眾消費請問一下以現在國際的形勢變更來講民眾消費會是因應著國際形勢變更最主要的考量嗎還是我們應該考量到國土防衛眼看著這個國際形勢的推展我們應該更加把這樣的國土防衛的精神放進去"},{"start":3421.832,"end":3444.791,"text":"第一條 第二條 第三條是連帶相關的這當中國土防衛的有無涉及到我們如何去因應國際情勢的變化非常重要的一個項目它也符合預算法第83條的第一款的規定因此我們在這裡呼籲支持所有包含了經濟產業跟國土防衛的項目在內的一個因應的特別預算的特別條例的編列以上"},{"start":3447.196,"end":3466.862,"text":"好 張祺凱委員 主席在這裡也對我們經濟部還有相關的部會有相關的詢問就是其實國民黨跟民眾黨對於是不是應該把強化國土防衛能力以及提升支通作業環境及設備這兩項"},{"start":3468.482,"end":3497.347,"text":"就是共1500億的預算放在這4100億裡面那就這個部分是不是等一下請海巡署的張副署長來說明喔因為上一次管委員在這裡報告的時候在委員會報告的時候他提到的似乎比較接近於國土防衛而不是剛才郭部長所說的查緝走私喔那就這個部分是不是請海巡署來提出相關的說明喔那"},{"start":3498.307,"end":3521.115,"text":"當然就這個部分如果是可以放在未來的軍購的特別預算裡面是不是就應該要把它拿掉而放在未來我們立法院審議的軍購特別預算裡面那就這個部分我們來釐清並解決目前各黨團與行政院的爭議那現在請張祺凱委員做說明"},{"start":3524.856,"end":3536.647,"text":"今天我們在討論的是特別條例為什麼叫特別它跟年度的預算當然是不一樣的當然是不一樣的所以要問兩個問題如果國土這個韌性這個要放進來那請問這次如果給了這1500億那明年度的"},{"start":3546.079,"end":3557.476,"text":"預算裡面會不會重疊這是第一個第一個我剛才提醒了賴清德總統已經講了今年度還要提出跟經過有關的跟國防有關的特別預算到時候要再編一次嗎"},{"start":3558.911,"end":3576.423,"text":"所以它是有一個這是一個法治的這個社會特別條例跟特別預算百分之年度就不一樣了當你可能會影響到年度的時候或者其他另外的賴總統講的另外一個特別預算我認為這1500億這時候不宜通過我覺得如果繼續再討論下去大家還是有意見就只能先保留啦"},{"start":3577.605,"end":3601.201,"text":"我認為即便是未來要保留我們現在也應該要充分討論然後也給國人同胞知道說我們這個4100億的特別預算的內容是什麼那如果我們只是就是每一條都保留而沒有給大家清楚了解這個內涵的話我相信大家也會不了解不清楚這樣子的情況那"},{"start":3604.277,"end":3611.655,"text":"蔡委員是不是讓那個張署長先報告我剛才的提問然後再請你發言好不好好張副署長"},{"start":3614.265,"end":3643.004,"text":"主席還有各位人大家好那有關這個部分在海巡署的部分其實海巡署所要面對的是中國長期而且是系統性的灰色地帶的活動跟軍事的侵擾矩爭那不斷的派出海警船還有這個假的漁船還有民兵船包括海監海警漁政科研船這些等等這些所有各類的公共船舶然後進入我周邊海域"},{"start":3644.365,"end":3662.364,"text":"意圖常態化的挑戰我國的主權然後嚴重影響我國的海洋權益跟海域安全那另外現行的以現行的這個年度預算編列部分事實上是不足以這個立即來更新這些設備跟裝備的所以我們急需要"},{"start":3663.084,"end":3687.138,"text":"這一個特別預算來立即來充實我們的預算另外部分就是有關這個部分主要是分三個部分來說明第一個就是強健的徵收的這個能力那從陸海空3D的思維建置海巡的空中能量現代化的雷達全海域的調查以及建構全方位的監控的網絡那第二個部分就是"},{"start":3687.958,"end":3713.619,"text":"及時的應處提升第一線部署艦船艇的密度然後更靈活的能夠應付灰帶地帶灰色地帶的這個策略另外一個部分就是優化後勤讓我們的海巡弟兄有健全的裝備那事實上這一個部分上次我們管組會在這個上一次會議中也特別提到我們只需要這些裝備來強化海巡立即的這個聯合勤奸爭的能力以上補充報告"},{"start":3716.158,"end":3730.63,"text":"好 現在請蔡委員好 謝謝主席那我想我們今天協商在討論這樣的特別預算剛剛鍾嘉斌委員有講整個情勢的變更從川普第一次宣告"},{"start":3731.169,"end":3749.488,"text":"他的對等關稅的宣告然後到延緩90天那現在90天事實上也已經到了尾聲了所以事實上未來的情況會怎樣變化還不知道但是至少就這幾個月來的時空環境我們知道有很多關鍵的因素有一個就是包括說"},{"start":3750.489,"end":3766.625,"text":"很多現在的中小企業尤其這一些的出口的一些製造業者他們都認為第一個控制成本是他們很重要的一件事那既然要控制成本我們也進一步的去問這些業者成本最高是什麼他說第一個電價所以他希望維持穩定的電價這個是他們這些很多業者他們認為說第一個可以來做的"},{"start":3774.773,"end":3779.196,"text":"所以想的話我們這一次的特別預算希望把導入對於台電的一個電價的一個這一千億的特別預算然後讓台電穩住他們整個財務狀況甚至未來也不要因為這個整個政策面然後造成台電在評估這個電價的時候又有一些"},{"start":3797.129,"end":3824.827,"text":"多餘的考量然後造成業者的成本提高所以這個東西很清楚也很要緊第二個現在業者現在擔心的就是說整個對等關稅並不是只有台美兩國因為這一些對等關稅包括最近已經宣告的中國的部分可能會落在55%那如果台灣不是跟中國是一樣的一個關稅的情況之下就會造成中國的息產地的狀況"},{"start":3826.568,"end":3829.13,"text":"所以這個東西也很要緊,那要怎麼杜絕行散地我想整個包括海巡他們認為他們的一個強化我們國土韌性強化國土韌性的背後就是他們要所謂夜間全天候的監控"},{"start":3843.583,"end":3858.693,"text":"要全天候的監控這也是需要醫生所以不能說我們這一次再提四千一百億那只要涉及到了台電的部分涉及到了經濟部涉及到了海巡涉及到了國防部我們就要大家丟掉就說那邊不是 我覺得這樣就不好大家應該是好好去討論說"},{"start":3863.596,"end":3885.538,"text":"我們在討論的就是對應美國他們現在整個對等關稅到底未來會對台灣產生怎樣的影響那我們才針對這一些產業面然後去提撥我們這一次的特別預算然後來做特別預算的處理我感覺這個才是正辦那現在事實上藍白也還是多數所以如果藍白想要發一千億想要"},{"start":3888.741,"end":3894.586,"text":"想要發這個一萬塊市商藍白也可以再提別的條例不用把它扯在一起不要把它扯到這一次對等關稅這一次對等關稅我們還是要站在產業面整個產業現在他們有怎樣的需求那我們來停對應的一些特別預算"},{"start":3914.225,"end":3931.479,"text":"至於其他的有什麼方式因為我們研會也好像要延到了8月31也都還有時間可以提其他的特別預算那不要把所有的事情都把它扯到了這一次的這一個美國對等關稅的特別預算那以上是我初步的一個發言是這樣好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":3935.043,"end":3949.324,"text":"謝謝我們蔡委員的發言那就接著我也有一個提問想要問那個張副主委就是舊海巡的這個部分就是強化國土能量這個部分"},{"start":3950.305,"end":3966.542,"text":"就一定要放在這一次的特別預算裡面還是你們可以就是說行政院可以提出不同的追加減預算或者是其他的相支應的預算來就是不一定在這個條例裡面要處理嗎"},{"start":3968.984,"end":3987.839,"text":"跟主席報告我們為什麼要在這個預算裡面提主要是因為我們有它的急迫性那上次我們管委會在會中也特別提到說第一個我們的年二期間真的能量不足包括夜間的包括空中的包括水下跟水面的這個都是非常欠缺的部分"},{"start":3988.739,"end":4015.678,"text":"第二個部分就是我們因應目前情勢的改變那目前中國對於台灣的所有的利用各式的洗腦包括小型目標的洗腦這個部分都對我們是一個非常非常大的威脅那我們希望能夠在這個時候用特別預算立即來彌補這些在我們在國土安全維護上面聯合勤建政的部分的不足那第三個部分就是有關載具的部分在建團群的建造部分"},{"start":4016.158,"end":4031.468,"text":"那我們現在數量遠遠比中國大陸的海警船還少那海警船目前有600多艘1000噸以上的有將近150艘在我們周邊移動但是我們海巡署的600噸以上的目前才只有28艘"},{"start":4032.789,"end":4050.101,"text":"是遠遠不足所以我們在應對上面是非常非常的困難所以我們希望能夠在盡快的在特別預算裡面呈現我們需要的這個目前及需要的這個部分我們這邊也特別這個懇請這個我們各黨團還有各委員能夠支持這個特別預算以上報告"},{"start":4051.375,"end":4070.52,"text":"我們也非常你看我們都給你發言這麼多次代表我們非常重視我們海委會就是相關的這個設備的這個部分那只是我們希望說我們特別重視你們相關的這個預算所以才希望說是不要在這個條例因為這個條例裡面還有其他"},{"start":4072.62,"end":4092.891,"text":"就是說要處理的事情是不是能夠請行政院再提出其他的最加減的預算那現在請郭部長然後郭部長完我們再請委員報告主席因為我們為什麼在這個時候要提出這個緊急預算就是我們面臨到的這個狀況是緊急的是緊急的狀況嘛因為這個關稅現在還在談"},{"start":4100.103,"end":4128.802,"text":"還在談 談出來的結果大概方向趨勢我們可以把握大概中國的美國對中國的課稅應該會高於台灣那個結果就是他一定沒有辦法賣給美國的東西他一定會外溢出來這個是大家都知道的一個未來那第一個他能夠外溢進來一定是考慮台灣嘛一定到台灣來所以我們過去沒有這樣的一個需求"},{"start":4129.802,"end":4148.408,"text":"過去沒有這樣的一個現象但是現在我們必須要防範於未然所以提出來的海巡的這樣的一個預算我懇請各位委員能夠了解事實是緊急的狀態所以提出緊急的預算 以上補充好 現在請張清凱委員"},{"start":4150.606,"end":4177.467,"text":"上次我們在經濟跟財政聯席會的時候管碧玲管主委有講一個非常重要的內幕他講說事實上在談高關稅之前他就已經認為說應該提出來國土安全潤性這部分對不對那天主席也都二月份他就跟行政院要求了嘛那天的結論是怎麼樣第一個就是剛剛郭部長跟海巡這邊一直在強調的"},{"start":4179.592,"end":4197.823,"text":"這個要打查緝走私跟洗產地長久都有在做嘛長久都有在做嘛所以是在年度預算裡面那天又談到就是說你在年度預算已經有了你要怎麼去強化要把它做得更好這是一個第二要嘛你就是在明年度的預算裡面去做你不要把這個東西全部都灌到4100億4100億剛剛郭部長在講了他有一個很大問題喔 郭部長"},{"start":4200.524,"end":4214.779,"text":"你現在把這1500億放到那裡面去他就把我們稅計剩餘剩下的錢幾乎都用光了剛剛郭部長講說你還在談你有可能出來衝擊是更大的你現在留一點錢在手上這是一個你真的要一次就把錢錢不都花掉嗎"},{"start":4216.141,"end":4244.874,"text":"這是把錢花掉這是一個很重要的概念第二個他不只是花掉他還衝擊到其他的例如說在野黨現在普遍上認為這個高關稅的衝擊裡面又有通膨這個問題這應該也是經濟部管的啊所以我們認為普發現金是一個比較好的辦法嘛這都是一個選擇的問題啦當你把錢第一個把錢用掉了第二個你就排擠了其他的用途包括這個普發現金然後第三個也是更重要的我再講我們要重視財政紀律重視預算法如果這個國土安全任性這時候可以一千五百這樣"},{"start":4245.914,"end":4260.586,"text":"把它擠到這裡面裡面 灌水灌到這裡面 我要問喔那其他都可以灌喔為什麼連度預算有特別預算那個三兆的預算裡面如果照這個這次這個國土安全熱線這可以放進來的話我相信再放一兆進來也OK"},{"start":4262.342,"end":4281.997,"text":"我們要嚴守預算法跟嚴守財政規律好不好如果真的你們任何需要就回歸到那天我們講的管碧玲管竹偉講的你二二分就已經提了嘛你照原來的年度預算去提或者是在經過的那個經過的那一塊賴總統講經過預算那邊去爭取不要灌到這裡面來不要急著把錢用完了好現在請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":4284.657,"end":4301.637,"text":"我們希望今天的協商當中我們的委員的發言能夠真的是恆時的去考量到國際局勢的劇烈變動我們都以為關稅之外貿易的原因只是來自於關稅嗎"},{"start":4303.055,"end":4325.236,"text":"我們看到中國現在比亞迪人家都說中國的電動車將會有第二個恆大類似恆大的地雷要引爆歐洲各國對於中國的電動車傾銷對外流血賣一台賠一台的方式的輸出也對這些原來的工業國製造了很大的威脅各國莫不言政以待"},{"start":4325.896,"end":4335.508,"text":"所以大家只把問題限縮在一個四月的關稅對等關稅引發的貿易談判未免太小看這個國際形勢的變動了單單是一個中國經濟內捲它的產能過剩對鄰近國家造成的這些傷害"},{"start":4344.457,"end":4366.196,"text":"其實是關稅而已我們看到了美國對於柬埔寨提出了高達三千百分之三千四百的這樣的一個懲罰性的關稅就是因為這些東南亞國家目前就是承繼著中國光電模組低價賠本透過補貼大量的對外稀產地然後轉銷售到美國市場"},{"start":4367.366,"end":4383.436,"text":"美洲市場美國都已經嚴正以待了台灣如果還把這當作說每年的例行事務編列在年度預算當中就可以我們試問一下如果沒有這個特別預算的支持我們經濟部有沒有能力去東南亞針對這些已經被美國針對性鎖定"},{"start":4386.198,"end":4408.678,"text":"的這些儀式協助中國光電板洗產地的這些國家進行實地的考核如果沒有這些預算的編列我們說一夜知秋啊沒有這些預算的編列我們行政部門如何因應這些國際形勢的變化這當中我覺得洗產地中國光電板洗產地的實地考核只是一個例子而已還有很多包括我們剛剛海巡所所說的我們的"},{"start":4409.258,"end":4426.645,"text":"周邊的查緝走私國土安全海面的一個監控這個都是在未來國際形勢當中變動國家因應這樣的情況所需要編的預算不是狹隘的限縮在只是對等關稅造成的貿易衝擊而已千萬不要以款窺天啊"},{"start":4429.65,"end":4432.394,"text":"我們其實國民黨的版本裡面其實為什麼沒有納入這個部分其實是因為我們認為這應該要在其他的預算裡面來提出來"},{"start":4446.154,"end":4467.41,"text":"當然我們也不是小看了這個國際情勢的演變那這一次的就是說嚴防大陸傾銷的問題那有可能除了設備的採購還有人力的增加等等相關的部分其實你們可以看到本條例裡面即便是民進黨團的版本"},{"start":4469.712,"end":4489.539,"text":"賴瑞榮的版本裡面都不能夠用在人的費用裡面那除了這個相關性除了有軍購就是我們海巡艦艇的採購等等相關的設備其實還有人力的增加以及相關的問題那所以我們才說是不是能夠請"},{"start":4491.32,"end":4518.325,"text":"我們行政院能夠在其他的特別預算裡面提出相關的這樣子的一個就是其他的條例喔那我們在這裡只單純的解決經濟部相關的相對應的問題喔那現在郭部長你是不是有話要說報告主席這樣子喔我們剛才我想有委員在爭執海巡署的預算怎麼樣"},{"start":4519.085,"end":4532.081,"text":"那個二月份的時候還沒有產生關稅這樣的一個命題嘛所以造成現在的緊急的狀況是四月以後的事情我們也經過這個全國的這個產業的這個訪談以後做出來這樣的一個緊急的特別的這個預算"},{"start":4539.529,"end":4554.92,"text":"這個都是我們了解民生所苦民生所擔心的未來對整個經濟衝擊的部分來自於國土安全的部分是非常非常非常重要的不是二月份提出來二月份的那個狀況跟四月以後產生的狀況這個"},{"start":4556.864,"end":4584.514,"text":"這個差異太大了所以國土安全如果萬一讓中國的東西進來到台灣以後產生的這個動盪更大那個時候我們光是來彌補你一個人發一萬塊給這個國人這個有什麼用呢我們根據經濟學家的統計這一萬塊發給老百姓是刺激經濟的成長但是你的目的不是要刺激經濟的成長"},{"start":4586.365,"end":4604.224,"text":"我們是要讓國內的經濟不受到外來的影響保護國內產業的經濟這個是我們的目的國土安全的目的是不讓外地的威脅進來這個才是最重要的我們在討論的是這個部分"},{"start":4606.491,"end":4627.543,"text":"並不是什麼常態的事情因為這個是緊急的事情我們不需要把過去常態的論述放進來如果要放進來那必須要有時間的觀念我們不能夠停在過去的時期再來論述未來的因應這個是非常我認為這個"},{"start":4629.542,"end":4644.699,"text":"沒有充分的討論我們要講國土安全是因為會造成國土的威脅所以才提出來這樣的一個預算你要趕快撥給我們我們才有辦法防範再拖下去啊一旦破口進來了以後誰來負責呢"},{"start":4648.388,"end":4657.194,"text":"我們現在請張祺凱委員,其實我在做對郭部長的做一個回應,我是說其實我們在講發現金,普發現金一萬對經濟的刺激,那我們也知道這是總體經濟的一環"},{"start":4666.54,"end":4683.308,"text":"當然在如果對現在我們還不知道未來情況怎樣我們現在只在嚴防就是大陸的商品傾銷在台灣那如果未來關稅造成了就是說大幅度的那造成了因為他們現在已經搶單了嘛"},{"start":4684.488,"end":4711.034,"text":"那未來可能我們的中小企業以及相關的供應鏈有可能沒有辦法出口的情況下我們普發現金當然能夠刺激國內的消費以及能夠增加經濟的成長那所以這都是同等的重要那只是說怎麼樣子來放這個預算問題現在請張啟凱委員今天的主席謝玉鳳 謝主席是經濟學的博士"},{"start":4712.736,"end":4729.985,"text":"剛剛經濟部長說普發現金對刺激消費完全沒有幫助你是在打臉以前民進黨政府嗎民進黨政府包括孫文昌那麼多發過現金啊當時的那個報告裡面都說會刺激景氣啊當然有幫忙怎麼會沒有嗎這是第一個點然後第二個你剛剛講這個查緝這個佐施啊稀產地這當然是重要啊"},{"start":4738.936,"end":4748.771,"text":"可是我剛剛一直在強調嘛這個真正的重點是管碧玲管竹偉在上市你那天也在場啊他已經清楚講了嘛他本來在提的就不是放在這個高關稅裡面啊"},{"start":4750.882,"end":4776.513,"text":"它在二月份就已經提出來了嘛而且你去看年度預算它以前就有這個啊就是因為重要所以每一年都在做每一年都在做所以我才有一個質疑我再問一個問題我們要重視財政基地的同時要照預算法去編預算那你之前已經有了那我現在問你你現在如果要急到這裡面來那你原來做的你有沒有精進把它做好結果你明年要不要再編你明年要不要再編"},{"start":4777.932,"end":4803.974,"text":"我剛剛甚至講過了你進來以後你會排擠到其他的嘛就我們剛剛在討論的啊你進來以後你這個要補發薪金這一塊都沒有了嘛像台灣民眾黨我們是強烈支持包括這個提升企業這一塊提升產業競爭力的還有這個透銷多元市場的還有勞工的安定這一塊還有幫助同業這一塊欸我們不只是支持原來台灣這個行政院的版本欸我們把金額要提高欸"},{"start":4805.475,"end":4812.371,"text":"可是被你這樣1500億進來你不就排擠了本來該做的事情嗎這個輕重緩急而且牽涉到財政機率問題嘛"},{"start":4814.014,"end":4843.107,"text":"所以我覺得要慎思啦就是說現在不要從單方面去看這個事情我覺得有一個非常重要的如果在立法院在審預算然後如果要違反這個預算法跟特別預算的這個精神那我要特別強調那我們坐在這邊整個制度被破壞掉了我剛剛在提一年三兆左右的這個預算現在把國土安全認証這東西一定要應急進來不是排擠了其他的那其他還有多少是可以這樣放進來的這制度整個亂掉了嘛"},{"start":4845.23,"end":4865.791,"text":"請回到財政紀律 回到制度面我們先給委員說完再請部長我回應張委員剛才所講的麻煩你把時間放清楚你有沒有與時俱進在討論這個問題你一直放在今年的二月關稅是今年的四月才開始的"},{"start":4866.391,"end":4894.814,"text":"我們針對這個關稅的問題然後繞了全省所有的這個產業然後提出了這樣的一個緊急預算你一直扣著二月再講表示你根本就停留在二月到現在都沒有沒有發現說這個這個環境的改變我們再提出來這個環境會因為關稅決定了以後開始改變但是很抱歉你一直在停留在過去那你說我不是經濟學家對不起沒錯"},{"start":4896.277,"end":4923.275,"text":"我們主席是經濟學博士那你請問主席的觀點國土安全重不重要對未來的影響變數重不重要我想在討論這個學術的話我非常歡迎你來討論但是這個問題不是學術的問題今天我們要看的國家安全國土的安全重不重要對關稅的這個緊急預算重不重要如果你認為不重要"},{"start":4924.551,"end":4951.523,"text":"那我想我們沒有辦法討論下去經濟部的立場我要防範未然我今天是防範未然所以提出來這個國土安全會對我們未來的經濟造成更大的衝擊你花一萬塊錢對我的經濟的對這個滋潤只有一部分而已不可能來彌補當這個破口衝出來以後花一萬塊你就發十萬塊的救不回來"},{"start":4952.883,"end":4963.428,"text":"這個是非常關鍵的部分所以我們還是一樣這個破口絕對不能打開所以國土安全請各位委員務必支持"},{"start":4964.465,"end":4981.57,"text":"因為郭部長好像不是來解決問題是來製造問題對啊 他一直要點名回答我的問題當然要講啊等一下等一下等一下我講完馬上好剛主席是說剛主席的主持是換我的喔換我的喔來來來 主席決定誰先講 對對對剛剛因為郭部長提的是我的是我的問題嘛"},{"start":4984.012,"end":4994.087,"text":"讓主席決定可是剛剛郭部長講的是我的話對讓主席回答尊重主席的主持不是你跟官員一來一往可是我要提醒剛剛郭部長來啦等一下啦對嘛讓主席決定"},{"start":4998.052,"end":5014.104,"text":"好 我們休息一下好不好我們休息一下 休息兩分鐘副長 是我剛講的問題他回擊問題 那不是應該說明嗎沒有啦 本來哪有這樣一來一往的那又不是尋答"},{"start":5014.864,"end":5023.114,"text":"現在又不是巡打現在不是巡打啦欸 齊凱偉人齊凱偉人我覺得郭部長剛講的有什麼錯啦"},{"start":5136.886,"end":5138.687,"text":"好 現在請蔡議員好 謝謝主席那我覺得剛剛因為被中斷掉本來要輪到我事實上我是附和郭部長的一個說法因為你站在經濟的整個考量剛剛齊凱委員是不是有去講到說民進黨過去的普發現金拜託 那時候的時空環境是什麼那個時候是疫情"},{"start":5164.326,"end":5180.815,"text":"疫情的情況之下是因為整體國內的消費不足所以我們當時普發現金去刺激國內的消費那這一次的發生的原因叫做對等關稅主要就是我們的出口業會因為美國客語的關稅的改變會造成國內我們整個出口的產業會受到衝擊而且也會進一步的因為全世界都跟美國有他的關稅所以關稅的一個落差"},{"start":5193.122,"end":5209.009,"text":"會造成會不會有商品他透過走私透過其他的方式或者是洗產地的方式進入台灣再轉到美國或者是發生了所謂替代替代出口的狀況本來過去是台灣在出口的那因為"},{"start":5210.339,"end":5228.585,"text":"舉例中國因為中國現在對美國的出口有55%所以中國就要擠到其他的地方然後替代了台灣的商品的出口所以這4100億要因應的狀況主要還是要針對國內的出口的製造業或者是農業所以看來變業預算"},{"start":5231.227,"end":5255.106,"text":"如果國民黨跟民眾黨對於普發現金這件事這麼執著那就請提自己的特別預算你們可以去抓你們要的特別預算甚至我剛剛看到鄭天才委員也有提出說他希望把對於地方政府的補助款也把它列入為特別預算但是這個還真的就跟這一次的對等關稅的事件不一樣"},{"start":5258.728,"end":5280.233,"text":"所以不管是國民黨或者是民眾黨未來可以支持行政院的追加預算然後來處理一般補助款那這個我們也非常支持啊因為一般補助款涉及到很多地方政府的需求我們用追加預算還是你們要像我當時有建議國民黨可以去提特別預算這個我們都支持不然跟這個的對等關稅沒關係"},{"start":5283.174,"end":5298.247,"text":"我覺得大家在這裡我們還是理性的討論到底美國關稅的一個改變對台灣產生怎樣的衝擊那這個衝擊需要編列哪些預算所以不管是經濟部所提出來台電所需求的1000億穩定電價控制這些產業的一個成本的一個問題"},{"start":5302.871,"end":5313.562,"text":"第二個海巡署全天候的政策擴大我們國內對於走私對於洗產地的一個政策的能力這件事要緊所以我們就要做我們要做要怎麼做要特別醫生所以我覺得大家既然在這裡我們就實踐這件事我們大家討論就好"},{"start":5321.569,"end":5330.273,"text":"國民黨有對於政策 你們有自己獨到的建議獨到的提案 你們就提出你們的特別條例你們現在人數比較多 您提特別條例行政院也不懂不用把這件事情把它糾纏在一起然後延宕了我們這一次在對應美國現在很多製造業他們是確實需要這個4100億然後來穩定我們國內的產業好 謝謝"},{"start":5347.233,"end":5373.126,"text":"好 現在請鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員完張祺凱委員 黃珊珊再鄭天才委員好 謝謝主席沒有提到也不曉得我們主席是經濟學博士 真的失敬但是很多議題不需要經濟學博士有點經濟學常識也可以判斷剛剛又有人提到所謂的普發現金要刺激消費"},{"start":5375.018,"end":5392.225,"text":"這的確是在疫情期間內需不振的時候我們經歷過走過來那個時候餐飲業一家一家倒零售業顧客不敢上門因此在防疫紓困振興的特別逃離當中我們希望能夠透過"},{"start":5393.625,"end":5416.533,"text":"現金的發放鼓勵民眾趕快的在社區去救餐飲的部分旅宿的部分讓零售通路能夠活絡起來效果我們看到了過去這一年我們整個台灣從書稅面來看從書稅面來看我們的營業稅 營所稅很明顯的在原來的零售通路上都有大幅的成長"},{"start":5417.833,"end":5433.286,"text":"所以在當年這樣的一個政策內需不振的情況之下我們用現金鼓勵民眾來多消費是有用的但是現在是內需不振的情況嗎今天發給民眾一萬元現金讓他去買比亞迪的電動車嗎是這樣子的嗎"},{"start":5436.345,"end":5461.182,"text":"可能你会说比亚迪电动车台湾买不到啊没错啊台湾是买不到比亚迪的电动车啊但是比亚迪的电动车流水输出造成欧盟美国家很大的压力啊那难道我们不要预防洗产地进来吗你以为中国的产能过剩他只会往欧盟过去吗他只会拿来跟美国做关税谈判的一个筹码来要求美国退让吗他不会寻求从东南亚国家现在从越南"},{"start":5462.25,"end":5476.228,"text":"泰國現在包括柬埔寨甚至遠到土耳其都現在是已經被美國盯上的中國的獲勝產能 起產地意圖要透過第三地消亡美國市場難道台灣不要預防嗎"},{"start":5477.589,"end":5498.665,"text":"難道我們可以多發一萬塊的現金鼓勵民眾買來這些席產地的產品嗎中國的啤酒過去這幾年來未裝成美國的品牌未裝成日本的品牌大舉攻陷我們台灣引以為傲的本土啤酒的市場本土的啤酒市場的本土自佔率已經跌跌下降"},{"start":5499.626,"end":5516.431,"text":"這裡面一直獨秀增加的就是中國福建的啤酒,銷往台灣,產地上寫得一清二楚,消費市場上不應該防止嗎?難道要我們多發一萬塊現金,讓我們的民眾去多買這些進口的中國啤酒嗎?這難道是我們台灣要的嗎?"},{"start":5517.882,"end":5534.953,"text":"這些很簡單的道理抱歉不需要經濟學博士只要經濟學嘗試就知道現在不是內需不振需要透過消費的刺激來活絡我們的經濟現在遇到的情況是國際形勢的匹變整個陣營全球化已經分成了兩球化"},{"start":5536.257,"end":5559.43,"text":"那麼美國這邊透過有岸外包能夠將民主同盟的產業鏈、工業鏈去串成一個非紅工業鏈的情況之下難道我們台灣要自決於這個非紅工業鏈之外的腳步嗎我們編列的這些特別預算透過特別條例來支應就是要加強我們國家不管是在經濟社會的韌性還是國土安全的韌性上能夠保護我們的台灣原來我們台灣的貿易"},{"start":5560.951,"end":5588.409,"text":"基本上以相當大量的歐美的進步市場為主我們國內的消費市場也要慎防遭到中國的低價傾銷透過第三地息產業的方式進來難道我們要發一萬塊的現金讓台灣的民眾去買中國的產品幫中國去劃它過剩的產能這個絕對不是我們今天審查特別條例編列特別預算的目的因此在這樣的一個國際情勢匹變的情況之下這樣的特別條例的"},{"start":5590.773,"end":5610.421,"text":"範圍它的用途就要能夠精準的去對應到目前是國際經濟環境的變化而不是在回味當年COVID-19時間民眾拿到一萬塊為了能夠渡過紓困能夠在防疫之後我們能夠振興經濟此一時彼一時請不要拿過時的話來隨便亂套"},{"start":5612.779,"end":5632.014,"text":"好 現在請張祺凱委員蔡英瑜委員跟鍾嘉斌委員跟民進黨立委都是反對要普發現金的剛剛蔡英瑜 蔡委員講啊他說那你就這筆錢啊這筆預算你另外去編那這個很好笑啊那為什麼 如果是你這個成立的話那國土安全任性這個為什麼要放在這裡為什麼連老舊房屋的這個修建都要放進來都要灌水灌進來"},{"start":5644.722,"end":5647.212,"text":"連強化高等教育人才培育都要灌到裡面來"},{"start":5648.564,"end":5674.056,"text":"連年度預算裡面都有的國土安全任性的這個預算都要灌進來嗎所以你這個自己的推論就打到了自己啊那更重要的你們民進黨反對普拉現金可是你們以前也做啊以前你們做都可以現在在野黨主張就不行你去看看民調過八成的民眾認為這時候面對著高關稅的衝擊甚至是通膨的這個壓力你去看看主計處最近的統計"},{"start":5678.359,"end":5691.811,"text":"普發薪金有什麼不對呢你們現在會不會過幾天啊你們賴清德總統突然轉彎了你們的普發一萬二啊你們講話到底有沒有根據你們做的時候都可以 別人做的時候都不行力能別人都不能嗎"},{"start":5693.291,"end":5715.209,"text":"那個邏輯怎麼會這麼奇怪包括剛剛經濟部長 郭部長針對性能那麼強你們一路的否決普發現金我只是要提醒你不要打臉以前的民進黨政府以前都有普發現金過請你們不要逐勢驚飛打到自己 這是一個點第二個 剛剛郭部長還特別提到"},{"start":5716.872,"end":5734.447,"text":"你說國土安全任性這個事情是在2月份我跟你講這個不是我們提的這上次會上管碧玲管子偉自己講的他在2月份要提出這個那他提出這個他也認為應該是另外的特別預算裡面那你說我們應該以時俱進台灣民眾黨是針對"},{"start":5736.519,"end":5752.538,"text":"你們行政院提出的4800億的特別條例之後做了大幅的修正我要強調部長要注意我們提出在支持經濟發展跟多元的市場部分提的都比行政院還多"},{"start":5753.686,"end":5775.438,"text":"我們不只沒有停留在你說的在後面我們是已經超前你們了反而是 郭部長請你要跟上這個時代我們已經提醒過你好幾次了提醒過你好幾次了你們提的這個經濟的這個整個這個方案裡面不管是對金融的支持提升產業競爭力還有這個多元市場的這個金額可能都是不過的"},{"start":5777.165,"end":5798.805,"text":"那我們都已經把它提升得更高你們要共同應用來支持民政網的版本才對啊怎麼反過來打我們一把呢你剛才提到很重要啊你負責去談這個關稅那目前還在現代進行式啊你把這個1500億就放進來還有更不堪的是我剛剛講的竟然把老舊房屋的這個修建也灌進來把高等交易的錢也灌進來連台電的運算1100億有一個多補"},{"start":5801.047,"end":5820.611,"text":"立法院都已經刪除通過就是刪掉了叫你趕快去改善你的體質改善你的這個錯誤的能源政策要不然的話一直在撥普根本就是錢越撥動越大嘛你不正本清廉然後全部灌到假高關稅之名全部灌了一堆大灌水進來人民黨就反感啊請解決問題不要來今天製造問題 謝謝請華佳佳委員好 謝謝主席我想剛剛聽了這麼多"},{"start":5829.045,"end":5851.583,"text":"其實今天我們很心平氣和的坐在這邊要討論特別條例我希望這件事情真的非常的重要90天的關稅暫緩期7月初就要見真章了我們的時間真的不多了第二個剛剛講的不管坐在現場的每一個人我不相信有人認為國土安全不重要"},{"start":5852.967,"end":5869.608,"text":"在這裡的每一個人都認為國土安全很重要但是如果剛剛以這樣的方式來跟委員溝通我覺得這不是很有智慧啊為什麼如果按照管碧玲主委說二月她就提出來那是行政院認為她不重要"},{"start":5870.865,"end":5884.542,"text":"因為行政院沒有幫他編預算所以沒有錢他只好現在插在特別預算裡面我覺得這樣子沒有必要啦也就是說大家都很重要錢不夠是事實要分配很重要所以今天才要坐在這裡討論今天這個特別條例完了之後還有特別預算"},{"start":5887.486,"end":5909.416,"text":"所以今天這個爭端不要影響到將來的特別預算所以朝野政黨本來就是坐在這邊放下旗艦希望能夠找到共識所以我還是認為說剛剛講的這裡每一個人都認為自己的預算很重要但是就像剛剛齊凱委員說的這個案子從四月份發生美國關稅的事情之後"},{"start":5910.43,"end":5938.664,"text":"行政院包括在野黨都非常認真的去跟院長溝通我們希望我們能夠做些什麼所以看到行政院提出800億我們覺得很棒後來暴增到4100億我們覺得很好但是沒想到暴增到4100億裡面真的跟關稅有關的大概只有980億其他3000億是包括台電的也來了然後危老重建也來了輔助弱勢也來了人才培育也來了"},{"start":5939.983,"end":5965.23,"text":"在我們看起來他就是硬要把這4100億湊成把所有的稅基剩餘用完而已所以1500億要放進來1500億還宣傳預算我相信委員都會支持所以現在主席的意思也只是說你們能不能用其他的方式來編列沒有人要否定你的國土安全我想這個我們的立場也是一樣的所以還是一樣在野黨很希望能夠在"},{"start":5966.03,"end":5983.599,"text":"面對國家這麼重要的時候我們只剩下一個月不到的時間我希望有個很完整的結論我們提出的版本大家可以討論但是可能不要去否定對方的版本或者是扭曲對方的意思好 謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員第一個就是席產地席產地是什麼大家應該都很清楚"},{"start":5995.618,"end":6014.487,"text":"就是產房移轉或者是他的標示給他這個改變但是他還是從海關進來海關進來就是經濟部或財政部公務署財政部公務署的怎麼樣去把關"},{"start":6016.21,"end":6039.719,"text":"跟海巡署沒有關係除了走私之外跟海巡有關係跟其他有關係所以這個部分是不要混亂一團所以這個國家安全我們都非常非常的重要但是我們必須針對這一次的美國關稅的問題提出 我剛剛也提到因為"},{"start":6045.136,"end":6069.985,"text":"這個經濟產業農業各方面的影響而目前所提的這些措施是對產業那對人民當然也有影響所以才會有這個相關的這些民眾的需求的一個提供那另外就是剛剛這個蔡議員有特別提到我的修正動議我的修正動議在第三條的最後一款"},{"start":6072.848,"end":6095.122,"text":"針對這個行政違法這個刪減地方一方一般性的補助款還有原住民基本設施的維持費我把他納入在這裡是要去協助我們的地方政府但是如果我們看我的修正動議的第五條之一我並沒有要去動用這4100億的經費"},{"start":6099.105,"end":6119.346,"text":"沒有人要去動用這4100億的經費以上 謝謝好 現在請充嘉賓委員因為剛剛有委員提到的時序上我想到立法院來不管在經濟委員會或財政委員會至少去年都經歷過預算審查今年度的中央政府總預算是在去年"},{"start":6120.563,"end":6148.045,"text":"主計總署就要在五月的時候就要做概算要完成概算的編列所以如果今年海委會的管主委在二月的時候提出了海委會的預算需求那也是在今年的五月應該要納入到明年度的中央總總預算先進行概算的籌編完成預算後才會在今年九月送到立法院來審查這個時序不要搞混了"},{"start":6149.737,"end":6174.378,"text":"財委會的管諸位所提的需求在今年二月份的提出依照正常的預算程序最快也只是在明年的年度預算當中編列如今行政院透過這個特別預算跟特別條例提前來做不是表明了問題更迫切更需要解決嗎難道把這個預算放到明年的編列再由在野黨不分青紅到白的亂三一通才可以嗎"},{"start":6175.325,"end":6186.793,"text":"我們看一看今天在會場的國民黨籍的委員只有鄭天才委員到場 他是經濟委員會的我們的主席是經濟委員會的謝委員但是民進黨籍的委員來了三位"},{"start":6188.562,"end":6213.532,"text":"在野的民眾黨的兩位都是不分區大家想想看現在外面社會民團喊的政天嘎響的大罷免不就是導因於去年的在省中央政府總預算的時候省今年的中央政府總預算的時候藍白在野不分清紅皂白的亂三嗎這其中還包括了關係到我們電價電力供應非常重要的這個電價的一個相對的補貼"},{"start":6215.453,"end":6239.799,"text":"也正因為亂三預算的苦果現在國民要來承擔國民忍不住這個怒火才要針對這些胡亂三今年度中央總預算的國民黨委員來提出罷免以至於今天這些委員沒有一個在現場沒有一個國民黨面臨被罷免的委員在現場因為他們知道做錯了"},{"start":6240.612,"end":6266.617,"text":"不應該去胡亂亂三今年的中央政府總預算也不應該去阻擋這些因應國際情勢變化包括我們國土安全任性所必要的預算只有不受到民意罷免這樣的一個監督的委員今天還敢在這裡提出說對台電的電價安定所需要的預算說三道四"},{"start":6269.168,"end":6291.761,"text":"還可以在這裡扭曲時間序列說海委會管組委所說的需求是應該從去年編的預算這哪有可能啊就是因為我們目前所面臨到的國土安全任性遇到對岸的滋擾透過各種灰色地帶的作戰透過各種無時無刻的一種對我們海防的一個刺探"},{"start":6292.461,"end":6307.203,"text":"我們海委會才需要趕快的來強化我們國土安全任性當中包括無人機無人載具我們的沿海監控所需要的預算趕快提出特別預算希望能夠在特別條例當中予以編列"},{"start":6308.157,"end":6330.596,"text":"如果今天在場在場的委員你們敢面對民意的話先去說明清楚為什麼去年省今年中央政府總預算的時候把一些攸關我們國家社會安全任性包括供電穩定的預算刪除當我們現在行政院跟其他的民進黨委員提出的要將這個部分放到我們的特別條例特別預算當中來予以補救你們憑哪一點來反對你們憑哪一點來表達說這是民意不要的"},{"start":6337.145,"end":6360.441,"text":"好 我們現在請張七愷委員鍾家斌委員是名義顯出的立法委員他不幫人民勘緊荷包連今天我們在共同要解決4100億高關稅的衝擊他竟然還是扯到大罷免你們腦袋裡面只有大罷免嗎我講一個最具體的"},{"start":6362.236,"end":6381.459,"text":"蔡英文總統在當民進黨黨主席的時候她就講預算省預算是人民破托給立法委員最重要的事情之一她說一定要好好省如果每個部位砍掉平均10%每個部位都活得好好的而且善盡立委的職責"},{"start":6383.154,"end":6400.263,"text":"宗嘉濱忘了蔡英文的這個丁寧嗎更重要的人民給你的戶口是什麼民進黨立委現在來這邊變成打手變成來這邊造謠連民主國家最基本的立委監督預算竟然今天都還來這邊造謠來這邊罵人"},{"start":6403.168,"end":6427.198,"text":"你這樣怎麼對得起你的選民嗎你看美國 你看川普他至少自己改革啊他省下了一部分的這個預算人民是股長叫好的啊你民進黨政府自己大灌水的對預算大量的預算有弊案跟民主國家一樣台灣的 我們的中華民國立法院在野黨當然好好監督啊結果你們執政黨不好好監督對不起人民的時候還在這邊造謠 講什麼大罷免"},{"start":6430.329,"end":6449.188,"text":"剛剛講到台電的一千億有經過多少次的這個討論你之前動了三次的三千億你的洞為什麼越補越大經過立法院三讀通過三檢的你竟然在這時候要移民高官所以你竟然把他丟進來去看看民調你的一千億被砍掉之後多少絕對多數的民眾"},{"start":6450.632,"end":6477.089,"text":"是贊成是 要台電對你們再撥補事實上經濟部長 郭志輝 郭部長是有講過啊你反對台電撥補啊 你忘記了嗎你們自己都正本青年 有病要去治病以前一個經濟補被你們搞成敗家子到底怎麼樣的人員錯 人員政治要去改啊一直讓人民納稅錢去補 怎麼是一個方法呢結果 今天民進黨的立法人來這邊不只不幫人民完全站在這個打手的這個角度"},{"start":6479.534,"end":6499.384,"text":"我只建議啦 摸著良心 回到初心啦宗嘉濱以前當在野黨立委的時候 你們看你們砍了多少預算現在當了執政黨之後 講到登山倒市的 卓氏清飛你們的良心怎麼對不起選民 對不起人民啊今天 這個協調非常非常的重要"},{"start":6501.285,"end":6523.338,"text":"攸關到總額去應用高關稅還有現在碰到這個衝擊還有通膨的這個衝擊之下我們趕快把預算協調好對 特別條例 趕快協調好讓特別預算可以趕快進來好不好現在開始我是覺得不要講一些情緒性的發言針對條文那如果真的目前沒有答案的去保留好不好OK 謝謝好"},{"start":6525.137,"end":6531.672,"text":"那我們現在第一條所有版本提案及修正動議均保留"},{"start":6557.046,"end":6558.53,"text":"現在第二條請經濟部說明"},{"start":6570.526,"end":6588.651,"text":"主席各位委員大家好關於第二條這個主管機關為經濟部那麼相關機關配合預算來編列執行這個是行政院版那這個民眾版有提出來說要刪除國土安全"},{"start":6589.551,"end":6605.021,"text":"新增普發現金相關內容我們還有這個賴氏寶委員提出來的主管機關為國家發展委員會刪除國土安全任性相關內容"},{"start":6606.365,"end":6623.614,"text":"那我們的王振旭委員是提出來增加國民健康與文化發展的相關內容那我們主要在這個在行政院版是那是保委員所提案的主管機關為國發會"},{"start":6626.363,"end":6643.972,"text":"但是考量本條例是因應國際情勢對國家造成經濟社會與國土安全的衝擊以強化經濟韌性為主軸建請支持行政院版本由本部擔任主管機構好"},{"start":6648.277,"end":6675.192,"text":"什麼我其實除了那個經濟部就是除了那個行政院提出的版本以外還有其他版本雖然都是經濟部那還有賴氏寶委員的版本是國發會那過去這樣子就是跨這麼多部會的這個情況一般都是有一個就是可以跨部會的單位來做相關的這樣子的因應那"},{"start":6677.853,"end":6680.574,"text":"主要還是強化經濟韌性主軸是強化經濟韌性所以由經濟部來主持"},{"start":6704.778,"end":6707.901,"text":"這個第二條啊 主要是第一項是主管機關那第二項會跟這個"},{"start":6730.932,"end":6741.918,"text":"這個法例名稱還有墓地還有跟後面的第三條有相關的所以剛剛前面已經保留了所以這個部分也要保留但是我建議了"},{"start":6743.004,"end":6759.682,"text":"建議這個行政院就是經濟部跟相關部會尤其跟國發會在討論因為今天如果我們各種版本現在所有的版本第三條所以也不是只有經濟部的業務有農業部的業務"},{"start":6762.825,"end":6787.012,"text":"有教育部的業務還有其他的部會的業務所以是不是由這個國發會作為主管機關這個是不是我們先保留然後讓經濟部跟國發會來先跟行政院做這個報告之後下次審查的時候可以並提出來 以上"},{"start":6789.465,"end":6809.015,"text":"好那因為這一條理念除了就是主管機關還有就是相關於就是我們第一條剛才在討論主題的時候有相關性就是行政院版本跟在野的政黨的版本是不一"},{"start":6810.176,"end":6830.148,"text":"對於國土任性這個部分是不是應該要放進來還是在其他的一般性的預算或者是其他的特別預算裡面來做相關的提出那大家對於這一點有不同的意見那我們是不是就在於保留好"},{"start":6841.014,"end":6857.14,"text":"現在進行第三條請經濟部先報告那這個部分有政委員所提的修正動議我們一併納入來討論"},{"start":6867.583,"end":6895.08,"text":"是我們先報告這個政委員的這個提議就是要挹注直轄市縣市政府一般性補助款以及原住民地區鄉鎮市區公所基本設施的維持費增加這一點那我們回應是這樣子就是說在第三條強化任性措施我們部分的版本因為"},{"start":6896.241,"end":6920.821,"text":"沒有採納挹注台電及國土安全任性的措施並提出普發現金將挹注台電及國土安全任性的經費轉納入普發現金的這個措施之中那普發現金雖然有這個短暫的效益但非最佳解方可能分散政府的支持力度應該集中國家資源全力支持最需要的產業與國人"},{"start":6923.303,"end":6928.653,"text":"台電以調節能源價格的方式減輕民眾負擔舒緩國際情勢對我國民生及產業經濟所造成的影響"},{"start":6937.506,"end":6945.151,"text":"111年到113年台電已經先行吸收了民生級產業電價這個環漲成本將近6000億元業者反映不希望再調漲電價如果能夠撥補台電將可改善台電公司的這個財務狀況降低"},{"start":6958.152,"end":6968.602,"text":"增加電價的這個壓力那麼避免產業同時遭受到關稅匯率以及電價的衝擊建請支持行政院版本"},{"start":6970.638,"end":6997.253,"text":"因為這一條事關重要就是今天剛好與會的各部會都已經來到這裡那我們是不是就是按照那個就是讓各部會也說明一下他們的那個情況因為你要爭取這些經費那我相信也需要跟委員說明那除了經濟部以外那我們是不是請各部會也來跟委員報告"},{"start":7004.52,"end":7028.551,"text":"我們按照條例的那個項目好不好就按照你們行政院的那個版本的條例的那個項目喔那提供企業金融支持是不是請財政部是財政部嗎是嗎經濟部經濟部第一款財政部跟經濟部兩部位都有"},{"start":7038.949,"end":7049.996,"text":"主席 各位委員這一次的特別條例就是為了協助相關業者能夠度過這次美國平等關稅的相關問題所以我們在這個"},{"start":7055.74,"end":7076.767,"text":"在相關的優惠方面提供的包括企業的金融的支持包括外銷貸款優惠保證加碼中小微企業貸款加碼貿易融資利息的減碼還有輸出保證的優惠等等這一部分我們將來如果通過之後"},{"start":7078.648,"end":7080.694,"text":"我們會請蘇瑩來配合執行以上簡單說明 謝謝"},{"start":7086.837,"end":7114.418,"text":"因為其他委員的版本裡面都有提到過去我們在最初規劃的時候都是以出口的企業然後受影響的來提供就是貸款的檢碼等等的相關的那我看到其他委員的版本有提到就是農漁業的其他的就是出口或者是相關的那這個部分請問就是說"},{"start":7116.62,"end":7133.546,"text":"議政部主席報告農業支持的部分大概有180億我們這整個我把它報告一下我們大概有四大主軸分配支持產業加上安定就業大概930億這裡面照顧民生大概1670億強化韌性1500億這裡面我們有十大措施提升產業的競爭力在研發轉型支持是200億"},{"start":7144.631,"end":7163.159,"text":"那麼加上設備太舊換新50億那金融支持我想剛才已經有報告過第三個強化農業支持180億開拓多元的市場100億第五安定就業我們合計150億第六才是易住台電的這個1000億加上勞保100億健保"},{"start":7168.802,"end":7190.579,"text":"200億照顧關懷弱勢因為這個會衝擊所以照顧關懷弱勢大概170億強化高教人才的培育200億那麼這個強化國土防衛的能量那麼提升資通作業環境及設備這個主要是怕走私那外溢的這個現象所以合計1500億總共加起來是4100億"},{"start":7194.777,"end":7206.381,"text":"是 因為在場委員也有提的版本那我說的第一項的250億的部分是關於就是金融支持那他所提的是救農"},{"start":7209.926,"end":7217.23,"text":"他所提的是就農業跟地方產業的金融支持的部分那不曉得就是說經濟部後來是怎麼樣子規劃因為過去在一開始討論的時候是就出口產業還有"},{"start":7226.739,"end":7241.31,"text":"我們在經濟部的110億裡面主要是在外銷貸款的保證減免保證的手續費最長兩年對中小微貸款利率減碼1.5%那是250萬以內最長是半年"},{"start":7247.034,"end":7273.831,"text":"那外銷貸款優惠保證加碼受美國關稅影響有出口時機而且營業額只要減少10%以上的進口廠商在出進口廠商通通受惠中小微企業多元發展的貸款直接或者間接受美國關稅的影響營業額少10%的中小微企業都受這樣的一個那所以就是"},{"start":7276.153,"end":7286.602,"text":"農業以及地方產業的金融基金支持也包含在這裡面嗎農業有另外農業的所以那沒有包含在裡面是不是好 陳部長"},{"start":7289.042,"end":7316.43,"text":"主席還有各位委員那這邊我就有關於這個我們農業部分來做一個說明第一個部分就是農業部門本身的相關的作為是獨立分項出來的那最主要是因為農業部門的產業特性跟工商業產業是不一樣的那雖然說有的委員說不應該把農業拉出來放但是大部分的委員都支持說農業的產業的支持是另外可以獨立拉出來的"},{"start":7317.31,"end":7342.195,"text":"第二點要說明的是整個農業的部分我們編列的預計是編列181那其中分為三大部分第一個部分是金融的支持那金融的支持裡面因為我們透過農業金庫的一些執行我們特別是針對相關的這些農業專案貸款的部分去做一些利息差的一個補貼那這個補貼的額度跟"},{"start":7345.276,"end":7362.572,"text":"工業工商業那邊財政部那邊的是並不是相關的但是精神是一樣的第二個部分是有關於產業競爭力的提升的部分那這個最主要就是說當我們進軍美國的這些商品的時候我們希望說能夠趁這個機會能夠提升產業競爭力能夠甚至於在"},{"start":7367.256,"end":7382.901,"text":"面對中國同樣在美國的市場的競爭的時候事實上我們是有優勢的趁這個機會能夠提升產業的競爭力那第三個部分是開拓更多元的市場那整個台灣農產品除了美國以外其實我們還有很多市場"},{"start":7383.641,"end":7405.515,"text":"那除了美國的市場我們會加強力大來協助以外那同時我們也會針對其他的市場來針對這些市場裡面去做一些相關的一個行銷的協助所以整個部分大概分為金融支持提升產業競爭力跟開拓多元市場這個是在版本裡面的相關的條例裡面我們有特別說明的以上"},{"start":7407.95,"end":7436.923,"text":"所以農業的金融支持是放在就是第五款對我們第五款農業的部分全部放在第五款所以農業的金融支持放在這裡面對全部都放在這邊好那所以你也順便說了一下你們農業的其他的相關的部分嘛對不對那那個在那個鄭天才委員的版本以及徐宇貞委員的版本都提到了就是還有輔導農民的部分那這個部分也有"},{"start":7437.819,"end":7461.059,"text":"我想在提升產業競爭力的過程裡面輔導農民的部分就會同時帶出來在這個項目裡面去處理所以就是包含在裡面對,是在產業競爭力的提升裡面其實產業競爭力的提升它本身的很多作為就跟農民有關的那是可以在立法理由裡面寫"},{"start":7464.863,"end":7489.968,"text":"因為整個產業競爭的歷史上它是一個產業鏈的概念從生產端的農民到集貨端到外銷端它是一個供應鏈所以這個供應鏈是一個整個系統的不會說只針對後端的出口商或者是中間的加工我們是一個供應鏈從生產端到加工一直到外銷它是一個供應鏈的概念的輔導"},{"start":7491.069,"end":7518.128,"text":"好那所以就是委員所提的其他的就是說包含性如果包含在裡面的是不是行政機關可以在立法理由裡面或者是其他的我們可以在立法理由裡面去做一些強化我舉個例子像很多農民端本身的輔導就是他的一些品質的驗證有沒有這個東西就是直接對於農民的一個輔導那我們在立法理由我想我們可以再去做強調"},{"start":7519.269,"end":7522.912,"text":"經濟部已經對於第二款的部分提升產業競爭力有做相關的說明"},{"start":7534.48,"end":7554.25,"text":"歐小林委員的版本裡面有提到了就是希望能夠提升產業競爭力跟強化產業人才培訓那何欣淳委員版本也有提到就是推動產業集中小企業加升級轉型跟這樣子的部分那不曉得是不是也跟"},{"start":7557.153,"end":7582.401,"text":"是報告主席我想我們在這個提升產業競爭力的部分我們是有辦法的我們的辦法是這個補助的資格就是直接或間接受美國關稅影響的製造業那補助的內容分為四項一個是一是雙手轉型二技術加值三行銷佈局四跨域整合那補助的金額呢個案補助"},{"start":7584.082,"end":7586.767,"text":"縣中小企業個案補助大概就是500萬元"},{"start":7588.362,"end":7603.733,"text":"那這個產業聯盟是4000萬元那補助的科目就如同剛才主席所宣示的包括人事費、材料費、設備費、驗證費等那全新設備的購置費大概佔整個個案30%行銷佈局費佔個案的30%委託研究及勞務費可以佔到個案經費的40%"},{"start":7615.501,"end":7621.046,"text":"那如果是設備太就歡欣我們是支持請這些業者優先採購國產的設備"},{"start":7626.26,"end":7651.199,"text":"那我們當然還有透過其他的補助方案比如說經濟部有節能減碳的方案大概根據我們的推論大概可以補助到40%來代救換薪以上所以委員的版本提到的就是說提升產業競爭力及強化產業人才培訓或者是推動產業這個都可以包含在裡面嗎是不是"},{"start":7652.102,"end":7670.781,"text":"是那經濟部有沒有建議怎麼樣子做整合性的條文或者是我們會在這個立法說明上面再加強好那第三款也是你們的你剛剛也說了第三款第三款"},{"start":7672.435,"end":7682.706,"text":"第三款就是經濟部如何協助企業開拓多元市場我們會有兩項第一項部件行銷通路第二個爭取海外的訂單那我們在"},{"start":7684.333,"end":7712.29,"text":"補助受美國關稅政策影響的出口進口的這個廠商到海外新設展示中心或者服務維修中心或者花貨那花貨倉庫等實體據點或新增代理商經銷商那麼單一的企業我們最高補助500萬元多家聯合申請最高補助2000萬元單家多家只能折一申請製作款須達到全案總經費的50%以上"},{"start":7720.604,"end":7735.5,"text":"這個部分好像其他版本都跟行政認同相同嘛對不對好那只有就是民眾黨的版本裡面有提到了就是要明定預算的這個部分那是不是張祺凱委員"},{"start":7738.724,"end":7765.271,"text":"這一條是行政院的第三條也是民眾黨的第四條這是重中之重現在是全民跟所有的產業跟企業在等待的這一條裡面有一些很有共識的我建議就可以大家有共識可以讓他先通過那台灣民眾黨是有一部分不只贊成行政院對於產業跟勞工跟農業的這個支持跟幫忙我們把金額更適度的提高我跟大家報告一下"},{"start":7765.931,"end":7774.415,"text":"在這個提供企業金融支持這個行政院版提了250億這個民眾黨是贊成的這個金額我們沒有動也是250億提升產業競爭力一樣250億民眾黨表示支持"},{"start":7782.506,"end":7810.076,"text":"那在協助企業開拓多元市場這個本來行政院提了100億台灣民眾黨增加到200億就多了100億因為這次主要是因為你關稅這個衝擊你說有些不是要到美國去你要改變這個市場那現在多元這個市場就非常重要所以我們建議要多加100億另外在支持勞工就業這一部分支持勞工安定就業行政院版提了"},{"start":7812.313,"end":7831.824,"text":"150億我們增加200億希望可以幫助到勞工所以增加到350億另外是農業這一個區塊農業市場做的跟產業那個三個項目是一樣的它也是包括這個金融方面的支持就是像雨天不只不要縮傘還要進一步去幫他了金融支持還有提升產業競爭力跟協助開銷開拓多元的這個市場"},{"start":7836.386,"end":7842.757,"text":"行政院版編了180億那民眾黨建立大幅提高到300億也就是增加120億所以從"},{"start":7845.482,"end":7873.561,"text":"協助企業一直到支持勞工安定就業一直到農業的支持台灣民眾黨都支持而且把金額適度再提高我們刪減掉的是強化高等教育人才培育這200億還有藝術台電的1000億然後我們在幫助全民健保跟勞保這部分行政院把提了全民健保要增加200億我們把它提高到370勞保部分100億提高到400億"},{"start":7875.722,"end":7896.557,"text":"另外普發現金這個條文裡面就是剛引起很多討論的到底要不要普發現金我們在第四條裡面明定我們在第六條會有一個標準那原則上就是每個人普發六千塊錢我們出國的預算大概是一千四百一十六億元另外我們增加兩個很重要的一個是"},{"start":7897.574,"end":7913.716,"text":"一個是要遵守強化我們的財政紀律所以我們要求還本戶籍變250億還有降低民眾受到高關稅還有通膨這個衝擊不只產業需要照顧民眾一般的生活也需要照顧所以我們建立要"},{"start":7914.989,"end":7933.131,"text":"要是補助這個TPAS就是大家在通勤的時候一般的特別是比較學生或者是這個一般的民眾會影響到的我們添了一百八十億那今天這一條是重中之重我建議如果大家比較有共識的某些條文就可以項目可以先大家有個共識然後至於金額要多少再進一步來討論謝謝"},{"start":7934.531,"end":7956.439,"text":"好 那請王振旭委員謝謝主席允許我發言針對於這個第三條就是剛剛齊凱委員在講民眾黨的第四條這個的確是重中之重因為大家都想要了解未來在這個編列的項目裡面如何能夠落實那除了落實以外那針對這些款項"},{"start":7958.22,"end":7980.978,"text":"能不能夠也有效的去匡列或者是規範那我還是再強調一下就是我們版本裡面針對於這個健康國民健康的部分希望也能夠納進來很重要的原因是其實我們是希望讓它有一個法源未來針對於在因應國際變化這麼快速的情形之下如果因為民眾的健康維護包括一些用藥"},{"start":7982.159,"end":8010.77,"text":"不只是在解除健保而已而應該是全方位的來針對國民的健康有更好的因應措施這是我們張出最重要的理由不過我這邊也提出一個困擾或一個問題來請教我們主計總署以這個民眾黨剛剛七月委員所提到的他非常用心的明列在這個條文裡面相關的所有在這個各個部會裡面需要使用到的費用"},{"start":8011.59,"end":8030.375,"text":"那未來我不清楚的是說如果依照民眾黨這個所提出來這麼樣具信名義的這些費用的話那未來在處理的部分當然我們也知道剛剛大家都有提到各個部份要用多少費用可是如果說以這個"},{"start":8032.736,"end":8058.786,"text":"第四條的第一款包括說這個提供企業金融支持其金會不得低於新台幣250億元這是不得低於那未來在主計總署在處理這個費用的時候在不管是預算的編列或是將來的這些最後看到的結果會沒有造成執行上的困難或者是困擾這部分可能要再先請教一下專家們謝謝"},{"start":8061.254,"end":8064.636,"text":"好 那我們是請副組長回答是 跟主席還有跟委員報告就是說基本上我們當時這個特別條例行政院版的設計就是有考量到因為關稅的高度不確定性所以我們有希望說針對這個不同的項目之間"},{"start":8091.389,"end":8117.469,"text":"可以不用受預算法62條跟63條留用的限制所以基本上我們就是有考量到到時候要因應這個隨著時間地也一直在變化的這個情境每一個項目它可能會支應的金額還是會存有不確定性所以針對就是說"},{"start":8120.495,"end":8140.638,"text":"民眾黨的這個版本就是說希望每一個項目不低於多少金額這樣的一個設計可能會到時候在支應的時候可能會有失掉它的這個彈性所以我們還是希望能夠支持行政院的版本"},{"start":8144.672,"end":8147.434,"text":"剛才王委員所問的還有金額的部分是否能夠寫在條例裡面"},{"start":8162.635,"end":8190.32,"text":"就是說一來就是說如果寫在條文他就因為他去綁他說至少要花多少錢這樣的概念可能就會有彈性上的問題另外我們也有擔心就是說因為我們財政紀律法是希望不要綁一定的比例或一定的金額啦所以我們才會說是不是盡量這個條文不要用這樣的一個設計的方式那如果不寫在條例裡面那要怎麼樣處理這一塊"},{"start":8192.84,"end":8212.359,"text":"因為我們現在就是說我們設計就是說4100億然後我們就做就是我們有在第三條有列舉這些項目嘛那但是這些項目屆時就因為我們這個關稅的對應的方式因為還是存有不確定性嘛"},{"start":8212.779,"end":8236.895,"text":"所以到底我們企業的這個貸款的利息補貼啦或者說我在照顧民生對民生的衝擊是多少其實這彼此之間都會隨著這個不確定性它的金額也可能會改變所以我們才會希望說每個項目之間的那個金額不要現在就把它確定是多少"},{"start":8238.056,"end":8262.423,"text":"當然我們到時候提出來的預算我們還是會有那個金額但是我們在條文的設計上就是說未來如果某一個項目跟我們現在預計的我們預計可能要花100億但是實際上它衝擊沒有原來那麼多可能花80億但是另外一個項目我低估了那我們這個剩的20億就可以去解決低估的那個項目"},{"start":8264.065,"end":8283.546,"text":"所以這是我們當時設計的一個概念所以就是說不會把就是金額名列在條文裡面就是細項的金額不去綁定但是總額4100億可以彈性的運用好 謝謝那現在請蔡易瑜委員"},{"start":8286.106,"end":8304.055,"text":"我建議主席 因為我們在處理條文的保留與否我們沒有辦法就該條的款次來說 第幾款通過 第幾款保留是沒有辦法這樣 因為它是做整個條文的處理"},{"start":8304.835,"end":8325.914,"text":"那事實上從早上11點一個小時大家的正義點在第三條就是核心的正義因為它涉及到這4100億必須怎麼使用那這個每一個黨團看起來有基礎的立場不一樣那行政院也有行政院的堅持那我建議是我們第三條就是保留"},{"start":8326.854,"end":8347.369,"text":"那再就單款說哪一款怎樣基本上條文我們也沒辦法做這樣的處理就是說第三條第一款保留第二款通過沒辦法這樣所以我們還是不是就直接第三條如果要保留的話我們就保留就全條文就保留現在請鄭天才委員"},{"start":8349.748,"end":8375.963,"text":"有關這個剛才這個農業部長所說的說明我來特別再強調一下這個因為在這個經濟部相關這些產業所受的影響所以它這個行政院版也有這個第三條的第四款支持勞工安定就業"},{"start":8377.063,"end":8399.665,"text":"是有針對勞工所以我才會在這個農業的部分除了產業的部分農業的產業的部分所以也特別針對這個對農民的一個支持協助在這邊特別一個說明另外就是本席的那個條文"},{"start":8400.846,"end":8428.001,"text":"第八款有針對一個益助援助民族綜合發展基金最主要就是因為這個基金本來是100多億那因為被違法挪用去作為禁法補償所以現在都已經是負的是負的所以這個過去被違法挪用的53億多將近54億希望這一次能夠把它"},{"start":8429.342,"end":8449.262,"text":"比照 比照健保跟勞保基金能夠也預注 預注54億那另外就是針對這個弱勢族群的第8款行政院版的第8款弱勢族群的部分 我把它名列這個低收入戶 中低收入戶 身心障礙者"},{"start":8450.023,"end":8468.381,"text":"及原住民等這個弱勢族群那另外當然國民黨版的裡面有特別提到這個所有的人民應該為了為了這次的那個相關的這些關稅問題相關的人民應該也要這個普發現金這個部分"},{"start":8469.301,"end":8492.119,"text":"那另外就是我的修正動議剛才有做了一些說明修正動議的部分就是為了營運這個行政違法這個刪減一般性補助款跟那個原住民的基本設施維持費但是我雖然列了這個項目在這裡但是在第五條之一有特別明定"},{"start":8492.619,"end":8492.659,"text":"現在請張啓凱委員"},{"start":8507.813,"end":8525.75,"text":"就是特別預算據行政院提出來是大概畫了一個上限大概是4100億左右那台灣民眾黨提出的這每個項目都是有經過精算的就是差不多也是4100億左右我們把它移出了某一些就是在因應高關稅這個930億這個我們不只是支持我們還增加了這個預算"},{"start":8529.639,"end":8551.563,"text":"那我們把它移出去的最主要一個是已經被立法院刪掉的我們認為後來灌水灌在這邊不理想的一千億的台電的這個撥補我們很期待台電可以自己做一些改革包括你們現在開始在賣那個RE30多賣一點現在產業急著要綠電啊多一些你們那個收入就可以增加的資本不要急著要去用撥補或者用漲電價來解決這個問題這個一千億移出去另外呢"},{"start":8554.904,"end":8579.865,"text":"有本來在年度預算裡面的包括老舊的這個房屋的這個修建這部分今天教育部長也在包括這個強化高等教育人才培育這200億這個本來在年度預算裡面就有啦我們會支持可是請回到請回到從4100億特別條例特別預算回到年度預算裡面還有剛剛一直在討論的國土的安全韌性這個回到年度預算裡面去就是該移出去的"},{"start":8580.485,"end":8587.072,"text":"讓他單純化是真的跟高關稅有關係的或整個社會跟經濟的衝擊面要怎麼去幫助的移出剛剛講的這部分然後我們增加的一個是普發現金還有幫助勞健保這個區塊然後甚至幫助一些弱勢者還有一般的家庭"},{"start":8596.681,"end":8597.361,"text":"我們現在是不是先休息五分鐘"},{"start":8633.2,"end":8662.739,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8666.032,"end":8687.858,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8696.253,"end":8708.579,"text":"中文字幕——YK"},{"start":8716.459,"end":8727.004,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":8744.923,"end":8761.954,"text":"謝謝觀賞"},{"start":8776.294,"end":8776.514,"text":"主席"},{"start":8807.827,"end":8807.867,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8838.154,"end":8838.354,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8887.753,"end":8887.953,"text":"等一等"},{"start":8899.936,"end":8913.026,"text":"不好意思我们刚好讨论比较久然后我们也还没有订便当所以是不是休息三十分钟让各部会去用餐玩我们继续协商"},{"start":8944.464,"end":8945.026,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":11398.268,"end":11413.339,"text":"好 現在繼續開會我們進行到第三條請經濟部經濟部發言過五個人次 張碧凱委員都發言過兩次王俊傑委員 蔡議員 鄭建才都發言過他們要發言"},{"start":11428.809,"end":11442.098,"text":"主席第三條剛剛都討論過了是不是都發言過了是不是先保留好那第三條大家都是不是都有意見那我們是不是就請保留各位委員好現在開始進行第四條"},{"start":11470.543,"end":11474.69,"text":"請經濟部先就行政院跟各黨團的版本做說明"},{"start":11484.591,"end":11512.394,"text":"主席各位委員大家好這第四條這個授權由相關機構訂定辦法規範措施的執行相關的事項我想這個幾位委員包括蔡易委員何新淳委員王美惠委員王振興委員國民黨版鄭天才委員賴思寶委員版徐宇貞版都跟行政院版是一樣的"},{"start":11513.615,"end":11536.829,"text":"那這個裡面呢民眾黨版是授權相關機關訂定辦法部分同行政院版然後另外民定要這個普發現金的不適用政府採購法的招標決標的規定翁小林版增加辦法需送立法院備查程序"},{"start":11538.45,"end":11552.056,"text":"賴瑞榮委員是授權相關機構訂定辦法部分同行政院版定規定主管機關的會診訂定統一執行的準則跟各位報告我想這個因為"},{"start":11554.617,"end":11577.792,"text":"行政院版未納入普發現金所以無法辦理普發現金的相關配套規定翁曉林委員提案要求機關訂定辦法需送立法院備查依現行法制作業程序各機關訂定之法規命令均會送立法院查照"},{"start":11578.792,"end":11606.682,"text":"所以無需於本條例明定需送立法院備查那麼關於內內容委員提案規定得由本部訂定統一執行準則考量各相關機關的措施辦理方式適用對象及應遵循事項均有差異那麼已由各機關相關機關視其所需制定辦法所以建請各位能夠支持行政院版本"},{"start":11609.104,"end":11629.878,"text":"好那因為這一條涉及到就是說發現金的相關的業務還有就是其他的就是國民黨民眾黨以及行政院版本是不一致的情況下那我們是不是全條保留全案保留現在進行第五條"},{"start":11637.272,"end":11660.158,"text":"主席各位委員第五條是談國土安全任性措施的採限制性招標排除採購法的公開招標限制性招標規定的限制那麼這個在蔡玉怡委員何新倫委員王美惠委員王振興委員版都是跟行政院版一樣"},{"start":11661.312,"end":11676.038,"text":"國民黨版、耐斯堡版、鄭天才委員版以及民眾黨版、翁曉寧版、徐宇貞委員版無強化國土安全任性的措施所以沒有這個規定"},{"start":11677.598,"end":11688.588,"text":"賴瑞榮委員版國土安全任性措施排除採購法部分同行政院版但要求應揭露採購標的類型及得標對象並依條約或協定辦理"},{"start":11695.171,"end":11711.979,"text":"那麼為使強化國土安全任性項目快速獲得所以行政院版明定相關採購得採限制性招標不受採購法有關公開招標及限制性招標規定之限制"},{"start":11714.055,"end":11736.87,"text":"賴瑞榮委員提案涉及國防部及海委會後續辦理採購時應遵循事項國防部海委會均表示相關採購會依採購法規定公開建議無需增訂建議由國防部海委會及工程會來表示意見所以建請同意行政院版"},{"start":11739.261,"end":11763.064,"text":"第五條因為涉及到就是國土安全任性的部分那因為只有行政院的版本有那國民黨團跟民眾黨團等都沒有這樣子的那我看今天也不會有共識就這個部分所以我們第五條全述所有的版本都保留"},{"start":11770.293,"end":11790.368,"text":"第六條是預算規模4100億 排除預算法科目 均不得流用流用比率及公債法每年舉債比率限制"},{"start":11791.26,"end":11819.354,"text":"那麼這個蔡議員委員版、何欣淳委員版、王美惠委員版、王振旭委員版、徐宇貞委員版國民黨版、鄭天才委員版、翁曉琳委員版、賴世寶委員版都同行政院版那麼民眾黨版是未排除預算法第62條特別預算科目兼不得流用第63條有關流用比率限制之規定"},{"start":11820.715,"end":11844.19,"text":"未排除公共債務法第五條每年度舉債比例限制執行期間尚有以前年度稅計剩餘可供一用時應優先供應賴瑞隆委員版預算規模定為4500億元特別預算不得用於常態性人事委員或行政管理支出"},{"start":11845.111,"end":11874.133,"text":"那麼行政院版建議國際情勢變動的不可預測性特別預算據高度的彈性需求同時斟酌財政紀律法規定能設有實行期間總額舉債上限的管控以防舉債過度膨脹以兼顧財政靈活與機率特別預算執行過程必然衍生必要"},{"start":11875.171,"end":11889.332,"text":"行政管理支出內容委員提案加以排除恐不利預算項目的推動本條涉及國家預算收支的運用建議主計總數表示意見"},{"start":11892.298,"end":11906.963,"text":"對於62條不得留用跟63條就是按比例可以留用那是不是我們就要授權給所有機關都可以留用"},{"start":11907.643,"end":11922.114,"text":"如果排除了這62、63以及不受預算法23條就是第一預備金的相關的規定的時候那是不是就是各部會都可以就是以後這一筆預算是所有機關都可以留用"},{"start":11923.712,"end":11952.488,"text":"是 跟主席跟會委員報告就是說他設計的概念只是說當我執行有剩餘的時候我可不可以給別人用那概念上他還是要有剩才會有流用的問題就是說如果沒有剩他也沒有辦法給別人用所以這樣的一個設計主要還是為了因應這個整個關稅的不確定性"},{"start":11953.743,"end":11966.731,"text":"所以目前我們看到很多版本也都同意有賦予它這個排除這個流用的限制那請問各黨團鄧天才委因為這個涉及到第三條因為第三條民眾黨團的條文就是把每一項"},{"start":11981.53,"end":11981.991,"text":"好 那民眾黨"},{"start":12001.451,"end":12015.263,"text":"黃珊珊委員對 現在主席我們剛剛就是正委員說的其實就是符合到第三 前面的規定那我們的版本其實有很明確的限制它的所以可能留院的部分我們還是沒有辦法同意"},{"start":12018.015,"end":12033.198,"text":"好那這樣子是就是行政院跟我們各委員版本都有不同然後黨團都表達了就是不同的意見那所以我們第五條也都全第六條也都全數保留他又提了一個"},{"start":12066.274,"end":12077.687,"text":"好 那因為現在有鄭天才委員所提的今天的修正動議第五條之一那我們也請經濟部表達意見"},{"start":12103.831,"end":12107.612,"text":"這題是請主席總書表示意見 副主席長主席跟各位委員報告那這個第五條之一就是為了那個一般性補助款636億的問題以及這個園民會計劃型補助有一個給鄉鎮市公所基本設施凍結50%的這個問題"},{"start":12133.839,"end":12152.484,"text":"這個第五條之一修憲動議是希望說是不是在這個特別條例裡面來用我們114年度的預算裡面屬於不是法律支出的或者是獎補助費或者是預備金來支應那以及那個"},{"start":12153.984,"end":12158.847,"text":"計劃型補助那個6.4億裡面的3.2億凍結的部分來來這邊納入這個條文由年度預算來處理那我們的立場就是說這個一般性補助款636億這個部分已經"},{"start":12172.754,"end":12188.263,"text":"做了很多的一個討論那目前初步可能比較多的共識是透過追加預算來辦理那這個項目跟我們這個今天這個特別條例主要是"},{"start":12189.364,"end":12214.68,"text":"整個關稅的意義似乎也比較不相這個關聯性比較沒那麼強所以我們還是希望說這個636億的部分來透過這個追加預算來辦理那至於這個基本設施這個3點53.2億的部分就我們了解原理會也已經會做處理所以我想基本上"},{"start":12215.64,"end":12231.007,"text":"只是不要放在這邊 但是該處理我想都已經有在處理當中 以上報告好 陳天泰委員有關之所以會把它放在這裡"},{"start":12233.018,"end":12261.757,"text":"本來應該是先討論第五條了啊也就是行政院版的第六條啊國民黨版的版本是第五條那個是4100億那第五條之一應該是在後面了好沒關係我們既然先談了那這個第五條之一我並沒有去動用這個4100億的特別預算的經費那之所以會放在這裡是因為在過去雖然財政委員會"},{"start":12263.578,"end":12291.655,"text":"有討論了然後民眾黨團議議法院的決議也討論了這個行政院一直沒有沒有提出很好的沒有依法啦 沒有依法來處理而且提到的竟然是針對這個對一般性補助款的要提追加預算的建議我是建議要倒過來"},{"start":12294.451,"end":12321.054,"text":"因為這個636億636億一般性的補助款依行政院的規定依財政收入方法所授權訂定的中央對地方政府的補助辦法這個都是法例義務支出法例義務支出立法院也沒有刪減"},{"start":12322.563,"end":12346.435,"text":"所以如果所謂的通案3減636億行政院如果竊有自愛難行應該是要就行政院以及中央各部會自己所要支用的這些經費有不足有困難那應該是要另外提追加預算所以應該要趕快撥這個"},{"start":12349.986,"end":12373.542,"text":"給地方政府的所以我們沒有別的方法了討論了你們都不提出好的一個那個合法的所以不得不要在這裡提出來你說完全沒有關係跟因應關稅那個勞保的基金也沒有關係啊所以這個部分這個部分我們可以來討論以上"},{"start":12377.23,"end":12395.359,"text":"好 蔡議員我們現在這個條文當然是就涉及到這次特別預算的規模那一樣是有委員的版本是不一樣的那大概金額的部分雖然"},{"start":12395.799,"end":12419.924,"text":"多數是匡列在4100億但是還是有不同的條文所以我想跟前幾條是不是又維持一樣的處理方式因為整個特別預算的使用項目以及預算規模這個可能都先保留留待未來整個後續的協商可能才會有比較效率的一個處理方式好 謝謝"},{"start":12421.158,"end":12439.534,"text":"好跟鄭天才委員做一下說明因為你的條次跟行政院的條次不一樣所以你的第五條是等同於行政院的第六條所以修正動議的五之一我們就放在這裡處理那因為就如同各位委員所說的"},{"start":12440.054,"end":12458.137,"text":"就是這一條關係到金額所以五條之一所提出的修正動議也跟行政院跟其他黨團的版本不一樣所以我們就予以保留再請院會寫上好 謝謝現在進行第七條"},{"start":12469.428,"end":12495.728,"text":"第七條是補助及其他給予的免稅不得強制執行那麼蔡英文委員 何欣淳委員 王美惠委員王振興委員 許宇貞委員 國民黨版鄭天才委員 翁曉琳委員 賴世保委員版都跟行政院版是一致的那民眾黨版 明訂本條例規定是政府領取之現金免稅"},{"start":12496.829,"end":12523.57,"text":"不得作為強制執行之標的民眾黨版並於該提案第六條明定領取普發現金之資格條件那麼賴最榮委員版有明定法令另有規定者不適用本條補助及其他給予免稅不得強制執行的規定那麼我們的這個行政院版是這樣民眾黨"},{"start":12525.014,"end":12552.731,"text":"提案因普發現金增加現金二制並且在該黨團提案第六條規定領取普發現金的資格條件行政院版未納入普發現金原無辦理普發現金的相關配套規定考量特別條例為了達到有效支持產業及國人的政策目的才特別規定補助及其他給予免稅"},{"start":12553.632,"end":12563.387,"text":"不得強制執行那任委員提案排除本條例規定恐不力達成政策目的建請支持行政院版本其他黨團黃珊珊委員"},{"start":12569.622,"end":12583.409,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想這個因為法條上面都是一環扣一環的所以我們這個部分內容上雖然一紙上跟其他黨團的是一樣但是因為我們牽涉到相關的其他的內容我們認為還是應該予以保留那國民黨團"},{"start":12590.414,"end":12607.703,"text":"民進黨團既然各黨團的意見與行政院版本都有相關的出入所以在沒有共識的情況下我們第七條所有版本跟修正動議均於保留我們現在接著討論民眾黨的第六條"},{"start":12621.787,"end":12645.637,"text":"請經濟部先報告這個報告主席這個我們剛才有說了就是民眾黨版與該提案第六條明定領取普發現金是資格條件所以這個與這個行政院版本這個有差異好民眾黨"},{"start":12647.861,"end":12668.214,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想這一條主要是因為既然有補發現金的項目所以我們是比照之前疫後的特別條例既然你要補發還是要有相關的資格限制所以我們把的把比照之前的內容跟資格都限制在這邊那既然大家有不同意見我們也是建議予以保留好 那國民黨的民進黨的好"},{"start":12678.831,"end":12705.159,"text":"好 那就是本條保留好 現在進行第八條第八條 各相關部會專案管考預算執行這一部分有蔡議員委員版 何欣淳委員版王美惠委員版 王振旭委員版賴瑞榮委員版 國民黨版鄭天才委員版 賴思寶委員版 徐宇貞委員版都跟行政院版是一樣的"},{"start":12706.881,"end":12730.097,"text":"民眾黨版裡面有各部會應將執行情形按計送立法院備查翁曉琳委員提示各部會應將執行情形按計送立法委員備查實施一年後行政院長每年專案報告"},{"start":12734.335,"end":12760.508,"text":"我們的報告是民眾黨團及翁曉琳委員的提案各部會須按即將執行情形送立法院備查翁曉琳委員提案行政院長須致立法院專案報告立法院如有需求得隨時透過所知執行專案報告等程序監督"},{"start":12762.045,"end":12767.555,"text":"要求行政部門提供相關執行情形及資料建議無須明訂本條例民眾黨團"},{"start":12776.418,"end":12804.392,"text":"嗯好這個這一條的條文主要還是針對他實施的狀況我們希望有一個固定法定的義務否則變成是要委員他個別去做所資第二個現在的這個執行狀況就每一次的特別條例執行狀況都是不夠公不夠透明所以我們希望說還是能夠在法條上面明定行政部門的義務這樣子會比較明確好蔡英文委員"},{"start":12806.025,"end":12833.212,"text":"這一條雖然是在講整個特別條例的實施期間但是看起來仍然是存在第三條的一個重要爭議也就是是否有要執行普發現金這一塊那尤其是在國民黨版跟翁小林委員的版本都可以看出這樣的文字以及徐宇貞的版本所以在第三條的爭議沒有辦法取得共識的話我認為這個條文還是予以保留"},{"start":12838.504,"end":12838.824,"text":"現在進行第九條"},{"start":12852.776,"end":12878.777,"text":"第九條實施實行期間114年3月12號至116年12月31號這裡面蔡議員委員版何欣淳委員版王美惠委員版賴瑞榮委員版鄭天才委員版賴世保委員版王振旭委員版跟行政院版是一致的民眾黨版上面有自公佈日施行至116年6月30"},{"start":12882.707,"end":12894.618,"text":"國民黨版徐宇貞委員版翁曉琳委員版條例施行期間同行政院版但明定普發現金執行期限是114年10月31日"},{"start":12898.212,"end":12926.623,"text":"行政院版考量美國自114年3月12日暨對蘇美鋼鋁材及其製品課徵25%的關稅已造成衝擊並配合預算執行情形所以溯及自114年3月10日施行至116年12月31日部分委員提案規定普發現金執行期限但行政院版未納入普發現金"},{"start":12928.174,"end":12954.43,"text":"原無辦理普發現金的相關配套規定 建請支持行政院辦那這跟我剛剛在第八條的發言一樣一樣是存在第三條第一項的一個爭議那在共識沒有辦法解決第九條一樣是沒有辦法做完整條文的處理所以我們還是建議於保留"},{"start":12958.015,"end":12983.33,"text":"好 那我们第九条所有版本都保留现在来讨论委员会审查时候有两个附带决议案是由郑天才委员及李燕秀委员所提那现在请第一案是郑天才委员"},{"start":12985.157,"end":13000.982,"text":"鄭天才委員所提的附帶決議請經濟部衛福部衛福部衛福部請衛福部來說明請衛福部來說明呂健德市長"},{"start":13023.627,"end":13045.663,"text":"主席以及在座各位委員 大家好衛福部在這邊做一個說明主要就是我們對於整個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會以及國土安全任性特別條例那麼為了因應整個美國的關稅變革對我國經濟社會的衝擊本部我們現在目前是希望能夠提出健保的部分200億"},{"start":13046.784,"end":13063.881,"text":"老保100億還有協助弱勢120億那麼總共是420億那麼這邊呢我要跟這邊跟主席還有委員做幾個相關的說明第一個是美國川普總統提出這一個最惠國的要價政策那麼川普呢"},{"start":13065.261,"end":13084.65,"text":"總統強迫其他第一藥價國家來分擔美國的藥費成本那台灣藥價如果不相應來配合提高的話那麼可能會面臨無藥可用的一個風險那麼再加上整個我們整個全球藥品供應鏈被打破原料藥成品可能會轉嫁到其他國家所以那麼台灣每年我們從這一個美國進口是250億的藥品"},{"start":13088.152,"end":13104.27,"text":"那麼藥品價格跟原物料的成本因為世界情勢變化跟地緣政治的影響因此恐怕有必要再來多增補相關的部分來做相關的一些對於健保"},{"start":13104.83,"end":13124.947,"text":"還有藥品方面藥品韌性方面的一個補助這是第一個部分那另外第二部分是我們另外還有另外一筆呢是針對這個弱勢者那麼這邊主要是針對低收中低收的這個部分它的一個相關的一個另外的補助另外還有針對整個超高齡社會當中有關於這個獨老"},{"start":13128.27,"end":13129.411,"text":"的這個關懷的這個項目那麼以上再敬請大院能夠來予以支持謝謝"},{"start":13140.119,"end":13164.754,"text":"因為現在好像是那個衛福部對這個是支持的嘛對不對這個附帶決議是支持的但是我們本案還是需要保留因為這個是行政這跟行政院版本的第三條跟第七款跟相同那因為有連動的然後因為我們第三條跟第六條都保留了所以我們這一案"},{"start":13165.594,"end":13166.535,"text":"現在進行第二案也是衛福部"},{"start":13182.076,"end":13198.707,"text":"OK那麼關於第二案的部分主要是我們修法是整個全民健保保險健保基金的財務壓力那為了減輕人民負擔穩定民生物價來促進產業升級等等那麼來希望能夠來"},{"start":13199.568,"end":13225.67,"text":"另外再特別移住那這個確實我們現在目前有相關的一些相關的問題那移住健保基金的這一個這裡面提案人李燕秀委員相關他是希望這一個移住健保基金的預算數不得低於個期預算總數的12%那本部的一個立場我們基本上是尊重大院的一個相關的討論以上謝謝"},{"start":13232.057,"end":13233.477,"text":"目前這個附帶決議衛福部是予以支持但是因為這個本部我們是建議還是繼續討論我們建議保留啦好謝謝"},{"start":13260.242,"end":13272.678,"text":"那本案保留因为跟行政院的第三条第七款及第六条都有联动那所以我们本案保留送院会协商"},{"start":13277.742,"end":13302.099,"text":"那根據我們剛才以上的討論行政院跟各黨團委員所提12案所有的法案名稱及條文並同修正動議三案及附帶決議兩項均保留送院長召集協商以上結論好那今天會議到此結束謝謝大家"},{"start":13302.964,"end":13303.244,"text":"你好 聖誕快樂"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}