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宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二 文化部次長李靜蕙列席就台灣世界遺產潛力點推動現況即欲求深登世界遺產必先完善我國潛力點保存進行專題報告並被質詢本次議程有委員柯志恩等22人提出質詢均經文化部政務次長李靜蕙及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員萬美玲 謝龍介 林倩琦提出書面質詢決議"},{"start":1847.554,"end":1861.688,"text":"一 報告及詢問完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三 對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關建樹與書面答覆通過臨時提案一項宣讀完畢"},{"start":1865.646,"end":1885.583,"text":"由於在場委員未達一決人數的三人所以我們一直都站不確定今天的議程是邀請國家科學及技術委員會副主委林法正副主委列席就競逐太空國科會太空科技發展佈局與未來藍圖進行專題報告並備質詢我們首先來介紹在場的委員萬美玲委員"},{"start":1895.623,"end":1919.004,"text":"好 我們國科會副主委林法正林副主委國家太空中心吳宗信主任好 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推動本土衛星產業除了規劃打造台灣首批六顆低軌衛星通訊"},{"start":2107.591,"end":2115.659,"text":"建立完整太空通訊印證平台外也著力於國內外立方衛星發展並提供各式地面與非地面的"},{"start":2116.789,"end":2141.648,"text":"检测平台加速产商技术与产品验证三强化自主发射能力我国的卫星发射长期仰赖国外的发射载具服务但也因此容易受到他国影响使太空认为面临不确定性强化发射能力及时促进太空自主太空中心将透过国家发射场域建制以及陆轨火箭计划持续增进我国自主进入太空的能力最后在策略方面"},{"start":2142.188,"end":2155.394,"text":"本會將扮演整合推動角色透過太空計畫引導產學投入協助其累積技術能量與培養專業人才同時致力消米業者投入的技術與資金門檻如提供驗測資源與技術資源等提升"},{"start":2160.556,"end":2179.801,"text":"廠商參與誘因此外本會也將持續督促國家太空中心並完善太空基礎設施建構友善太空產業發展環境加速接軌國際太空市場透過產官學協力合作各自發揮所長其能將台灣既有高科技產業優勢轉化為推動太空產業促進產業升級的關鍵動能"},{"start":2185.783,"end":2195.511,"text":"進而開拓太空市場新南海 競逐太空以上報告 懇請委員鼎力支持敬祝各位委員身體健康 順遂平安 謝謝好 謝謝林副主委的口頭報告"},{"start":2204.233,"end":2218.339,"text":"我們現在來確認議事錄 議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處好 沒有 那我們就確定議事錄我們現在開始來進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘 列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘"},{"start":2222.501,"end":2240.847,"text":"委員如有臨時提案也請於上午10點30分前提出並與本會委員林沛翔委員質詢結束後即立即處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言人登記第一位萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":2248.168,"end":2252.205,"text":"好 謝謝昭葦 我們有請林副主委好 請林副主委"},{"start":2255.655,"end":2256.095,"text":"副主委早"},{"start":2285.455,"end":2295.885,"text":"主要是因為那時候還沒拿到export license主要是沒有拿到export license"},{"start":2299.434,"end":2311.318,"text":"OK 好那我接下來問我想根據我們台灣國家這個太空中心的網站上有看到B5G低軌這個通訊衛星預計是要在2027、2028年來發射尤其剛剛提到我們這次這個美商這家公司它提供的這個通訊籌載這一顆它是要在2027來發射的那能不能請教一下廠商什麼時候具體可以完成"},{"start":2326.604,"end":2334.902,"text":"也是2027同一年嘛但現在剩下兩年半左右的時間請問一下副主委我們確定有把握如期發射嗎"},{"start":2336.42,"end":2360.565,"text":"是很好那我們再來看另外一顆是我們國內研發自製的通訊籌載那是我們公研院來研製的可是根據本席一直以來的關心跟掌握的最新的消息公研院其實在今年的3月3號就已經去函了太空中心他指出說公研院一約履行完成第一期到第五期的審查並且驗收通過"},{"start":2362.785,"end":2363.565,"text":"這個問題太空中心主任比較清楚我請他回答"},{"start":2378.7,"end":2408.004,"text":"好委員你好所以知道嗎對當然知道這幾天我們有跟主委報告主要是這樣所以您知不知道我當然知道知道好那為什麼呢委員一約要遞交的項目叫做工程題然後我們最近有召開一些審查會審查會我想委員有不同的意見然後代工中心我想我們依法需要跟依照這個審查會委員的意見然後後續的處置"},{"start":2408.684,"end":2426.934,"text":"近期工研院進一步在坐下來討論共商解決之道所以現在的狀況是工研院要解約但是我們覺得其實不妥當可能會有很多的問題所以才要來共商解決之道詳細的情形我們跟他大概最近商討會主動"},{"start":2429.635,"end":2434.979,"text":"我想主任還有副主委其實公研院也有回覆本席因為我們很關心這個問題他說他們擅長的通訊系統關鍵技術已經轉化成了衛星籌載的自主設計他也完成了階段性工程體的開發任務"},{"start":2447.688,"end":2461.654,"text":"但是後續有一些工程的驗證體跟飛行體它是需要太空環境跟模擬測試而且牽涉到一些籌載跟本體的整合或者系統工程跟品保運輸發射等等項目"},{"start":2463.375,"end":2488.146,"text":"這些他說都不是工研院擅長的所以他要還給太空中心將來看可不可以找一些這個具有這個產業化能量的這個台灣廠商一起去走最後這一里路我想這裡面其實有些問題第一個呢我覺得你們應該要儘速去再繼續這個研商開會去討論第二個呢其實本席也不太理解就是說為什麼如果說後續這麼大一段都不是原本我們工研院擅長的那當時為什麼會做這樣的決定所以呢"},{"start":2492.167,"end":2513.099,"text":"依據他的說法第一個我想副主委同意嗎我們主任同意嗎那可以接受嗎如果他堅持要解約那麼我們會同意他解約嗎簡單回答我就好我想根據合約我們現在正在進行這個工程體的驗收我想本席的問題是如果後續他確定要解約我們會同意嗎"},{"start":2514.393,"end":2527.865,"text":"這個我想要依這個協商的整個的狀況我會主動協商完成會主動跟萬委員主動跟萬委員報告主任其實從你這個回答的這麼為難我們就可以知道他要解約這件事情恐怕也會帶來很多我們對這個問題上的困難那還要去面對還要去解決"},{"start":2533.951,"end":2555.073,"text":"所以我覺得可能是要加速啦因為呢我看起來如果真的解約了我們國內研製的這顆通訊籌載的後續太空中心是不是有能力還是我們國內的廠商可以來接手我看起來恐怕也是一個問號這你同意嗎不同意所以是有能力可以接受因為我們JC有一個根據去年11月中的一個SRB的"},{"start":2557.355,"end":2579.584,"text":"一個決議這個決議會統合有一個自主開 優化很好我覺得有這樣的信心很棒因為任何一件事情我們都要做好危機的處理那還有一些備案所以我們這一顆當時是規劃2028要發射所以本席在這邊我想也要先提醒如果工研院解約了您剛剛也很有信心說其實不會有影響那我們是不是就應該要在2028是一定能夠發射這點可以確保嗎"},{"start":2584.006,"end":2610.453,"text":"我們會delay到 根據我們現在最新的規劃是2030因為這一個東西非常非常的複雜要整合非常多的 尤其是產業界好 所以已經會delay了 對嗎對 會delay但是我想 這個現在既然已經就說會delay但是這個中間有很多該掌握的其中還是要必須去把它掌握好那最後我想 這個工研院現在沒有打算要繼續發展那我們要找國內廠商這件事情我相信太空中心或者是國會會這邊要繼續積極"},{"start":2612.233,"end":2635.576,"text":"否則當初我們推動這個B5G的計畫是要扶植我國太空產業的這個目標假設我們自己國內沒有這個能力的話我想可能就會跟我們當初的這個是背道而馳的所以在這件事情我們要繼續加強好不好謝謝好 OK 謝謝好 謝謝萬美玲委員的詩薰林副主委請回我們接下來請葛如君召委"},{"start":2647.849,"end":2651.594,"text":"好謝謝召委有請林副主委林副主委請"},{"start":2655.183,"end":2679.769,"text":"各位委員早早我想今天很謝謝趙偉排案那這個我作為這個太空粉這個阿宅其實也認為這個主題非常重要本席過去也贊助過火箭阿伯的計畫所以也希望這個太空相關的發展我們可以一起持續往前衝那太空計畫的第三期呢多年前就有聽說國歌會要修正那聽說現在是送到行政院有說"},{"start":2681.489,"end":2706.238,"text":"經費有可能要提升到650億那目前想了解一下因為這裡面有包含通訊衛星 入軌火箭等等的計畫目前行政院的意見怎麼樣什麼時候會向國人報告4月16號我們已經在行政院開了第一次審查會議然後6月13號已經正式送入行政院裡面所以大概預期什麼時候我們可以向國人再具體的分享"},{"start":2708.581,"end":2726.622,"text":"我們在等那個行政院的指示行政院現在好像到處集中不管是AI基本法還是太空的計畫我們也希望我們卓榮泰院長可以多花時間在您手上的這些文件跟資料台灣的發展不能等我想我們也關注一下"},{"start":2727.242,"end":2747.095,"text":"現在各國都在做這個太空競逐那也有人開始去想說算力可以直接上到近地軌道Orbital Edge Computing就OEC那我想問一下國科會跟太空中心有沒有計畫把AI算力把它放到這個軌道上去更快速的來計算一些相關的訊號有沒有這樣的想法OK 好"},{"start":2747.535,"end":2765.851,"text":"就是說我們未來會發展那個完整的遙測衛星這裡面包含關節的包含那個那個合成孔徑雷達裡面會有AG computing所以相關的這個AI運算也會含在裡面那這一次的這個第一顆衛星A是沒有的那接下來BCDE是會有嗎"},{"start":2769.059,"end":2785.813,"text":"就是因為剛剛有說未來嘛那到底是哪一顆哪一號以後我們大家可以要早一點準備我們也來配合我們總共有湖巴總共光學有六加二顆前面六顆的我們後面有兩顆有一個叫做HRX那顆會有還有EF"},{"start":2786.954,"end":2800.848,"text":"好非常好謝謝謝謝這個相關的回應那接下來我也想請教一下這個近期大家有一些社會上的一些不安所以有人在拍攝街景等等好像有這個匪諜"},{"start":2802.229,"end":2827.823,"text":"還是有這個敵人在到處亂拍攝但實際上呢大家的說法是說谷歌地圖沒有被掌握在敵人手中所以他們在拍街景可是事實上我們的太空的技術現在全世界也都非常先進了我們也非常感謝我們國科會還有太空中心一直都做得很努力我們的遙測的這個衛星的影像服務員的影像也相當清晰可不可以幫忙大家科普一下其實這些街景"},{"start":2828.263,"end":2834.35,"text":"其實衛星都拍得到了是不是可以幫我們科普一下不要讓大家過度的焦慮或恐慌被有心人士利用"},{"start":2840.137,"end":2864.569,"text":"因為我想這個Google或什麼這些都是靜態的東西但是我想民眾在憂慮的是有一些動態的比如飛機的起降啊 它一些動作我想這是我講的是街景 不好意思對所以街景不會有疑慮啦 對不對衛星都有拍了謝謝 謝謝這個主任所以我想大家也不用過度憂慮但是當然我們的國安還是要好好的警示一下"},{"start":2865.089,"end":2866.831,"text":"接下來我想請教一下太空研究我們除了科普之外我們也要研發守梅的深空探測儀的任務完成中央大學有刷新最遠的飛行紀錄當然算是不夠完美"},{"start":2882.971,"end":2902.35,"text":"接下來再接再厲但我們想要關注一下就是說其實我們也找了一些資訊有看到太空中心呢其實有委託了很多的太空的計畫但是剛剛我們提到的這個計畫太空中心是沒有補助的那我們也看了一下國科會好像對於剛剛那個計畫也是沒有補助他是用高校生根的計畫"},{"start":2903.191,"end":2924.554,"text":"所以我想請教一下就是教育部 國科會 太空中心這個互相的這些太空計畫的選案有沒有那種我一起來合作讓一個案子失敗一次了我們再讓他一次我們給他多一點資源讓他成功有沒有這樣一個可能能不能在經費啦或特定的方向上副主委或主任這邊能不能給多一點的協助啊好"},{"start":2925.578,"end":2953.585,"text":"那個基本上高校對大學的支持還有國科會對大學的支持其實都是非常的重要那基本上來講一般的大學他是根據他們過去在國科的研究成果去申請國科教育部的一些中心的一些經費那所以呢其實這個都是聯繫的很好也就是說其實各中心在審查時候國科會也都會去看所以那個委員講得很好我們基本上那個經費都是一起在應該沒有複製啦"},{"start":2954.625,"end":2972.876,"text":"對不對 沒有說高教生跟用的錢國科會就不能補助 太空中心就不能加碼 對吧沒有互斥啊曾經有發生過 就是這個計畫他們在教育部的經費已經使用完畢了他會回來跟國科會要求 我們會去審查如果他所言所述 我們會緊急的撥款給他們"},{"start":2975.017,"end":2996.751,"text":"所以因為我們真的都非常關心我們希望各項太空計畫不管是誰在進行能夠幫助台灣的我們都一起來支持好不好所以剛剛有一些專案我想希望副主委還有主任來關心一下另外我們也看到太空中心委託工研院做的分析報告我先給予肯定2024年在衛星製造上面成長率是100%那整個產值是有往上提升的"},{"start":3002.495,"end":3010.822,"text":"那2024年現在已經過了六個月我想請教一下2024年的全球佔比的產值是多少今年2025年或者明年接下來有沒有一個預計的目標好 我請太空中心的同仁回應各位委員報告2024年產值大概已經接近大概2900億的台幣"},{"start":3027.009,"end":3044.916,"text":"所以是有持續成長所以我想這個相關的人才還有資源 目標都應該要設好最後想跟主委談一下AI的議題我想請教一下副主委對不起抱歉副主委想請教一下您覺得AI現在在各國之間是競爭還是觀望"},{"start":3048.339,"end":3066.513,"text":"競爭競爭嘛對嘛沒錯所以我們就看到其實鴻海就推出了很多的計畫其實也就知道現在是在競爭韓國也在1月推出人工智慧基本法日本本月初通過了相關的這個法案還成立了所謂的AI戰略部但是國會主委呢"},{"start":3067.193,"end":3084.303,"text":"竟然在去年提出草案版本被收尾以後呢現在突然說回去了吳主委甚至還在上週三我們審查AI基本法的時候說AI發展仍在起步當中各國這是主委的話喔反而採取一種觀望的態度"},{"start":3085.273,"end":3113.137,"text":"我想這種做法大家會同意嗎我想請教一下副主委您同意嗎您剛剛已經說啦是競爭嘛我們就應該要趕快加速結果主委又說是觀望是跟葛委員報告其實我們國會很多計畫現在真的都在加速建制AI的算力還有包含那個它所需要的電源的取得我們都是在加速規劃對那這些資源跟這些算力跟這些能源要有一個整體的框架那您是不是支持AI基本法應該要趕快通過"},{"start":3116.166,"end":3131.331,"text":"應該要趕快通過是好 謝謝我們大家一起努力最後跟主席爭取一點點時間我們現在看到有所謂的AI新十大建設國科會裡面也做了一些響應我想請教一下號稱15兆2040年國科會要分擔15兆當中幾%的產值"},{"start":3141.662,"end":3162.921,"text":"其實那個整體的方案我們其實包括了國科會國發部經濟部書書發部我們目前還整體在討論當中所以很難說這樣國科會負責多少的產值所以我想我還是要再提醒一下如果計畫都還沒有確定吳主委國科會國發會的劉主委就喊了這麼大聲"},{"start":3164.222,"end":3185.847,"text":"結果規劃一問到細節連國科會到底負責多少都不知道那我再問一個嘛那你具體整個大餅你分到多少不知道或者是你要分配多少責任不知道那請問你們提到了四項這個十大建設的AI新科技智慧機器人 量子 矽光子 主旋AI那這四個又怎麼分配比重這是你們內部自己可以決定了決定了嗎"},{"start":3188.087,"end":3208.997,"text":"跟委員報告基本上來講我們現在是全力推動這些前瞻技術的研發所以平均分攤經費的部分還是要看因為目前來講不是產值對不起我講的是十大建設的產值因為國科會喊出這四大項我們在推動不僅十大建設圖片都有寫是是是這個總是你們為主了吧"},{"start":3211.423,"end":3230.319,"text":"負責前瞻科技的這個部分的投入那當然那個產值會從上中下游整體來去沒有我說你們負責的產值好沒有關係我們其實可以看到其實現在就是一個口號啦那沒有關係我覺得大家在努力但是國外在搶資源在走競爭真的不是觀望"},{"start":3230.979,"end":3252.287,"text":"也真的已經是不只是起步在加速了我們現在只見到口號沒有內容我們從AI內閣到主權AI現在還沒看到一個線索來突然跑出一個十大建設我想是不是請副主委帶回去跟吳主委討論一下具體方案能不能早一點確認內部的還有跟外部聯繫的尤其主委又是政委"},{"start":3253.027,"end":3269.675,"text":"面臨到什麼樣的困難那也許早一點現在又在編列相關的計畫我們一起來努力可以嗎好是好謝謝謝謝副主委謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝葛如君委員的質詢林副主委請回我們接下來請劉書斌委員質詢"},{"start":3281.755,"end":3305.244,"text":"有請國科會副主委好 林副主委劉委員早好 主委早我們看到的這裡有沒有PPT的遙控器嗎沒有對不起 先暫停一下無事先暫停一下OK 好我先試試看 OK 可以好"},{"start":3307.352,"end":3320.025,"text":"因為在5月29號的時候呢在解凍國科會的預算有提到的是在三個科學園區它的淨零碳排的這個事情然後呢6月10號的時候我們看到的是收到了關於會的這個報告"},{"start":3323.268,"end":3340.774,"text":"那這裡面呈現出來的是讓人家很嚇一大跳的我們可以先看一下就是當初問的是排碳量耗電量跟用水量科學園區到底是多少然後呢看到這邊部分的有給了但是你可以看到這個資料三個科學園區是不一樣的有竹科中科跟南科結果"},{"start":3342.356,"end":3360.711,"text":"國科會所給的資料卻是全部放在一起的看到這個右邊裡面的資料卻是把三個科學園區從110年到110年分別放在一起這個情況之下他們三個差別有區別但是你沒有呈現出來而且用水用電佔碳的比例在台灣的比例也沒有放出來"},{"start":3362.172,"end":3377.758,"text":"你們提到說 三年的幾資料當中可是有一年 例如說113年的這個排碳資料部分因為還沒有到 今年要控告所以沒有出來可是這些資料裡面我們怎麼會知道它在你們三個科學園區裡面總共17個大大小小的科學園區裡面它的真相到底是怎麼樣沒辦法探求這個DC-0碳排的成果啊我很訝異的是 國科會做事竟然是這樣做的怎麼做這個科研研究呢主委您請回答"},{"start":3389.542,"end":3392.404,"text":"那個比較細的資料應該都有我們那個會後再補充給那個劉委員細的資料全部都有那我可以大概跟委員說明一下那基本上來講整個有三個園區管理局有12個科學園區它的這個用電量差不多占台灣總用電量快要到20%"},{"start":3415.28,"end":3439.805,"text":"那排碳量大概是百分之十那這個量其實是非常的大所以你們目標我也沒看到你們目標在哪裡淨零碳排這部分等一下我想說你們這個時候國際標竿當初吳主委的時候有提到的部分那您副主委這部分你也是主管這個業務在科學源泉業務所以請這部分就在兩個星期之內我想就是請要提供到本辦公室來去做資料提供跟報告好嗎"},{"start":3440.805,"end":3457.24,"text":"好 可以OK 下一個我們看到另外我想要再追蹤的是台灣的綠電足夠供應廠商的需求您剛才說的這部分用電大概20%對不對那我們現在再從你們給的資料的呈現出來的是等於說要達到R100尤其是高階的半導體的這個部分等等的那現在是"},{"start":3459.161,"end":3485.726,"text":"這個到今年的時候都有330億度但是我們看實際上面來看看2050年是到2030年是400億度這也都沒問題這是你可以看到我們本辦就從其他其他資料當中去把它彙整出來大家可以看到台積電的部分是全國用的是整個台積電是223億度但是在再生能源的這部分的時候呢全國只今年就剛剛說的2023年只用了三只供應了366億"},{"start":3488.346,"end":3494.187,"text":"事實上根本遠遠沒有超過沒辦法達到這個情況那科學園區總電量你剛才說的2765億度那現在只供應366億度根本也都不夠那如果再往下看的情況是10到八分之一的情況那台積電我們要看看未來情況是2030年他必須要他自己講他目標沒有到R100但是他說40到60%"},{"start":3511.531,"end":3517.154,"text":"這部分大概也是需要450度可是全國再生能源也是到400度這個情況之下你就可以知道遠遠是不夠於發展的對不對它的所需台積電都不夠囉那我們繼續往下看這邊有廠商的這個供應的這個分量區它是職工的是給電廠是直接給科學園區沒錯那看到也有在綠營的部分也都呈現出來了可是事實上就剛才所說的"},{"start":3535.243,"end":3539.586,"text":"電網的跟實際調度的情況之下深圳在綠電配比的情況之下只能滿足到30到50%的這樣的部分需求好 那我現在問的部分我們看看整個科學園區再看看在台積電如果就一個廠商來講來看看的時候我先問一下您認為那個林副主委請問你認為台積電擴敞的外移原因是什麼"},{"start":3556.136,"end":3577.835,"text":"我先跟委員報告一下綠電的情況剛好最近有一個演講我有整理了這些數據目前台灣再生能源的發電量佔總發電量的已經到12.5%現在大概就有300多億度今年年底一定可以達到366億度現在就已經300多億度然後到了今年年底絕對會達到400億度就是綠電你們昨天的資料給到366億度"},{"start":3583.602,"end":3589.909,"text":"對對對我是說到今年年底齁然後那個您所秀的那個經濟部2030年只有400億度那是舊的資料其實其實到了2026年我個人預計這個綠電應該就有接近到500億度對但是像他們供應RE的話多少"},{"start":3599.761,"end":3628.92,"text":"比重的能夠讓那個RE的廠商能夠達到呢我覺得是絕對夠的因為到了明年就會達到接近500億度那目前原居業廠商加起來也不會有那麼多好那我回答這部分你這個後聊之後再補給我但是現在重點是台積電擴廠外的原因是什麼其實基本上台灣的土地其實是不夠的所以基本上只有土地而已嗎當然還有其他相對應的資源但是應該講哪些資源"},{"start":3630.029,"end":3655.003,"text":"土地然後還有水資源還有各方面電有吧應該都有應該都有而且是綠電嘛對不對因為再生能源最重要的就是在地的環境嘛對不對但是我是覺得綠電如果正常的成長應該是會夠那他另外一次因為他這幾年的成長的幅度太大了他不去往外擴張他也沒有辦法繼續的成長這是我個人的看法他有沒有考慮到供應鏈要RE100的需求台積電有沒有考慮到這個問題"},{"start":3663.097,"end":3686.539,"text":"您揣測您是科學研究人員您是研究人員你這個部分應該可以從學術興趣回答我覺得這部分的比例應該比較少因為目前綠電的發展還算是順利的好你這樣回答好那我們繼續往下看根據在台積電的這個部分來看的時候就剛才已經其實大概就只有到2030年大概就只有到25%的部分資產那也許有在調整可是距離他要求的部分差距差了很遠"},{"start":3687.139,"end":3699.506,"text":"那我們看看喔現在台積電他 大家全世界都知道他到日本了他先到美國到日本他到德國我們看看在美國的部分呢他在亞利桑那州的情況電力結構當中有27%再生能源16%等等最重要的是他保證他非碳的能源的是"},{"start":3703.829,"end":3727.721,"text":"保證是同百分之百的這個情況因為這個阿里桑那州的這個電力公司跟他這樣講那我們再看看所以美國能滿足美國廠能夠滿足他非他能源的需求這是淨零碳排需要的目標第二個部分看到的是日積電啦日積電這部分呢他也是提到的是因為九州電網裡面提到他現在救星是他本身自己九州裡面核能跟再生能源26%"},{"start":3728.982,"end":3736.907,"text":"非碳能源51%那當然他只要送去一個台積電也沒問題所以他也九州電力公司也宣手全綠電供應的協議也是這樣子所以日本熊本電廠熊本線能夠滿足他的非碳能源需求這也是OK的喔那我們再看看另外一個是在德國的部分德國他本身自由再生能源是54%但是綠能保證的部分至少62%那供應給他也都沒問題其他部分更好65到95%現在都沒問題所以德國也是供應綠電也是沒有問題可是台灣呢我們現在看看"},{"start":3759.402,"end":3768.188,"text":"台積電裡面的最重要的一個它是Apple的廠商裡面最重要的尤其是有些獨家的供應廠商這個部分所以它是2030年就表現到100喔100%喔那我們繼續往下看在這邊呈現出來的話前面你就會看到2025年就好像其他國家都三個廠都已經達到100%了那我們呢我們看到我們台灣的廠的部分2030年大概30到50%這是從台積電下的資料拿出來的它就算是它自己提到說2040年全球RE100可是還是不夠這部分"},{"start":3789.122,"end":3797.59,"text":"的確出現到這個問題就跟主席說一下就是在一分鐘左右就結束掉那可以看到所以如果你是台積電的董事長您認為台灣從現在到2050年的發展結構能夠滿足台積電淨零碳盤的目標嗎"},{"start":3804.571,"end":3821.702,"text":"原來如果照原來的發電的結構到了205年綠電是60%以上一定可以滿足台積電的目標因為他已經外移到別的地方去了這部分也是有這部分的需求"},{"start":3822.723,"end":3843.184,"text":"這部分我想你講的是2050年可是他2030年就必須要達到了耶你沒有聽到2030年需求的響嗎2030年的需求也可以達到現在是說台積電生意真的太好了他的成長的幅度可能已經脫離了原來的規劃所以這部分我的了解是台灣電力公司還有經濟部也拼命的在想辦法去meet這方面的需要"},{"start":3843.404,"end":3858.159,"text":"但是你剛才講說在地能源有它的需求有一個必定的限制條件對不對我們當然希望在地能源一直在發展沒有錯但是這部分廠商它必須有國際性的規劃它部分它現在2030年Apple的需求就是很大了這部分我們再繼續追蹤下去"},{"start":3861.502,"end":3882.851,"text":"那最重要的是我們現在看到的是目前至少在二零現在的情況之下台積電依依國企的需求還包括的是他自己要理性的去做探討這部分有達到這種情形那所以他就必須有這樣子的和所謂的非碳能源的部分事實上是很重要的部分好那最後解開空的部分我就回答就是再做一個部分那三十秒就請問一下在"},{"start":3886.968,"end":3904.254,"text":"舉經選定的屏東縣的滿洲鄉九棚村那這個地方因為你報告到昨天為止的時候看到這個你們也做了一個公聽會等等那他到底這個面積還有多少人口還有土地的產權現在目前是需要去購買是公家還是私家的還有最重要在公聽會當中有漁撈衝擊的影響評估是必須要去承認他對漁業的影響是怎麼樣環境影響評估是怎麼樣回饋經濟是怎麼樣那是不是可以簡單回答一下"},{"start":3913.297,"end":3937.588,"text":"它的面積25公頃土地產權它大部分都公有地所以處理起來相對的容易然後最主要是我們在做的時候我們會順便的把地方的經濟也把它還有基礎建設也會把它建起來其實對目前的屏東縣來講縣長還有當地的住民都是非常的歡迎以上簡短的報告 謝謝"},{"start":3938.388,"end":3959.018,"text":"那最後一個就是屏東科學園區的招商關係是什麼因為他們已經強調這裡 屏東縣立委也非常強調這裡我們可以看到 屏東的現在科學園區是在在屏東市 它距離有114公里來回去程就要2.5小時車程怎麼去招商呢 這部分那怎麼樣 科學園區跟生醫園區怎麼去支用太空園區你們的規劃是怎麼樣"},{"start":3960.179,"end":3973.226,"text":"好 未來有一些整備還有需要的一些關鍵技術會在科學園區裡面的太空園區會在那邊進行以上那這個距離呢 交通這邊距離就沒有什麼關係嗎"},{"start":3976.533,"end":3988.261,"text":"你們沒有回答這個問題是不是可以書面報告再跟劉委員好 那就這樣子那也謝謝主席的寬容大量 謝謝謝謝劉委員主席幫忙就說之後做書面報告想寫書面報告再給劉委員我們就請那個男科一起給那個劉委員好 謝謝包括不是要來可能要說明一下謝謝副主委 謝謝好 謝謝劉書斌委員"},{"start":4006.297,"end":4008.74,"text":"副主委請回好 我們接下來請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席我請國科會副主委 太空中心主任好 有請副主委還有吳主任"},{"start":4024.36,"end":4036.908,"text":"好那個吳委員早副主委好最近我看了台灣的紀錄片電影造山者那我想很多的國人都跟我一樣非常的感動那今天現場我們有國科會我們太空中心還有我們科學園區的很多同仁都在現場所以我想台灣有今天的科技發展以及國家的安全"},{"start":4046.894,"end":4057.281,"text":"其實我們非常感謝我們國家的科技人才過去的努力那從造山者就台灣的集體電路這一路從工研院到聯電到台積電這一路的發展這當中我們台灣我們有我們自己技術的表現有人才的表現當中我覺得也非常關鍵的因素其實也就是政府支持啦"},{"start":4069.83,"end":4088.831,"text":"是不是副主委所以今天我們是太空中心的專題報告所以台灣的太空發展國家跟政府的支持在這個階段也是我們非常關鍵中之關鍵所以我請教副主委我們國科會對於太空三期的計畫我們的願景我們的目標是什麼"},{"start":4092.364,"end":4109.875,"text":"跟那個委員報告基本上我們的願景有幾個第一個就是要有一個比較完整的這個遙測的星系這裡面包含了解析度高解析度還有孔徑雷達目的就是能夠提高國家的安全那第二個來講就是低軌道的這個"},{"start":4112.436,"end":4138.048,"text":"衛星通訊利用那基本上來講就是讓台灣未來的這個低軌道通訊的發展也能夠帶動我們的經濟的發展然後第三個就是要有自主的發射的能力也就是說我們要發展低軌的火箭能夠把低軌衛星帶入低軌的軌道以上三個重要的方向是那我們現在三期在上次質詢中博科有回答計畫已經抱怨了嘛"},{"start":4138.668,"end":4156.829,"text":"那我們的預算過去小英總統任內曾經喊到是要加碼到400億那上次國科會說有信心是要來超過400億所以我想我們非常的期待這個太空三期計劃近日就要來核定那我有關注到我們太空中心在6月9號上週"},{"start":4159.952,"end":4182.347,"text":"在台湾太空科学联盟的太空法律论坛当中我们有讨论到未来因应我们台湾太空产业的前景我们的法规也是必要进行调试我们的国科会的太空科技长城计划是在1991年的时候进行但是我们的太空发展法"},{"start":4183.507,"end":4200.616,"text":"遲到7年之後2021年才制定太空發展法它基本上是基本法所以我們其實授權你們主管機關針對此法你們可以自己來訂定我們目前比較會遇到要接下來要做的法規的調適主要有哪些這個要不要請主任來回答委員長"},{"start":4203.837,"end":4231.942,"text":"大概我先講一下我們的事實到現在這個發射大概已經有9次然後立方衛星這個載具大概已經有15次所以非常的頻繁然後我們需要有一些因為隨著時代改變我想這個太空載具登陸的審查的基準還有發射載具的審查的基準還有發射載具技術規範這些我們隨著時間我想我們都要因時而至於都要隨時間要進行我想必要修訂或改變"},{"start":4233.72,"end":4253.733,"text":"我們的太空法當中就有講到說我們台灣要來遵守國際太空法的原則雖然我們沒有在聯盟當中那現在美國在推阿提米斯協議這個對於我們台灣未來的比如說我們在資料的共享啊衛星碎片的處理啊等等我們自己的法規有沒有還要進行調適的部分"},{"start":4256.335,"end":4275.752,"text":"我想是必要的因為這個太空的技術變化很快尤其像剛剛講這個碎片這對保護我們國家的space asset就是太空的資產非常重要所以我們因為阿提米斯我們還沒有簽因為我們是我們很特殊的國際環境關係但是我們是用盡所有力量在跟國際保持"},{"start":4276.092,"end":4289.779,"text":"好那我就是提醒因為我看到我們清大的黃居正教授有提醒我們針對國際的這個情勢我們要有相關的應應那除了法規之外接下來要請教的是我看公園院關於我們台灣太空產業調查計畫113年底的這個期末報告"},{"start":4294.742,"end":4307.839,"text":"有指出呢我們其實我們台灣的衛星自主研發除了是我們自己國家的太空發展能力以外也是幫我們國內的廠商取得太空履歷就是來扶植我們國內太空產業其實是非常重要所以這其實是一體兩面"},{"start":4312.945,"end":4339.278,"text":"我們的太空三級計畫提升質疑國家的能力針對我們的產業的福祉它也是非常重要我們過去九年來2017年8月福衛五號升空2019年6月福衛七號升空2023年10月我們裂縫者衛星升空這是我們首科的自製衛星自製率超過八成接下來就是今年10月的福衛八號我們自製率預估是可以到幾成"},{"start":4341.841,"end":4365.181,"text":"我们预估是要84%的自治率以上这我想非常的重要那我看到工研院的报告也就是告诉我们说过去几年四年我们太空产业的成长率连年都超过10%这非常高比国际平均的成长率高到将近要10倍然后我们自己的卫星制造领域连续两年都是100%的成长"},{"start":4367.023,"end":4389.316,"text":"所以這表示我們的太空產業它的發展相當的蓬勃公園院給我們三個建議第一點建議我們提升台廠技術量能第二建議逐步準備檢測資源第三拓展衛星遙測應用針對公園院的建議我們目前有沒有哪些的因應作為呢"},{"start":4393.192,"end":4418.386,"text":"我想我們一直持續在進行這樣就是我們協助台灣的廠商他們需要的一些研發的資金還有技術門檻因為我們比較懂太空然後幫助他們取得一個在太空最重要就是要取得飛行履歷有取得飛行履歷以後就證明他是可以上太空的我想對他們打入全世界的整個的太空的supply chain是非常非常重要我們一直持續在進行這件事情"},{"start":4418.846,"end":4433.55,"text":"好所以我們的太空產業跟我們太空中心的發展產官學的合作我們也持續在進行當中這一點也很重要那也請你們繼續來努力好謝謝來謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝吳佩奕委員副主委請回"},{"start":4444.622,"end":4453.524,"text":"接下來請林宜謹 張偉質詢謝謝葉主席有請林副主委還有太空中心吳主任請林副主委以及太空中心主任"},{"start":4458.364,"end":4480.244,"text":"副主委早靜竹太空接軌國際這應該是我們太空中心的目標不過策略上應該要怎麼樣進行又該如何跟國際的盟友來產生發展夥伴關係我想這都是我們未來要很努力的方向首先我想要跟副主委請教是說"},{"start":4481.705,"end":4496.074,"text":"太空的技術在我國國防戰略上它的重要性我想當然最重要就是低軌衛星系統的部件因為我們怎麼如何打造自己的所謂的"},{"start":4498.318,"end":4523.437,"text":"護國新群衛星護國新群是當前的要務那我們有看到6月12號金門有舉辦這個冰推零災的應變那其中有個核心項目就是低軌衛星的通訊來應對這個網路的中斷那既然冰推已經有納入這個項目那我們就看得出低軌衛星通訊技術在我國應該要更加以重視"},{"start":4524.378,"end":4550.851,"text":"那我們看到最近就是中國對台灣的侵擾不斷尤其前一陣子還頻繁的破壞這個台灣海底電纜那意圖干預台灣的這個通訊自主那中國對台灣的基礎通訊設施進行破壞我覺得這個可以預料的事情可是積極發展低軌通訊衛星的自主性就看起來更加的迫切"},{"start":4551.531,"end":4576.576,"text":"那我是認為說台灣必須要建立多元自主而且不受政治干擾的低軌衛星網絡然後來確保國家安全跟產業發展的需求來打造我國的這個數位韌性好 所以從國際上的實力來看俄羅斯跟烏克蘭開戰後俄羅斯就針對烏克蘭通信設施來攻擊那電信設備被嚴重癱瘓這個時候"},{"start":4579.678,"end":4599.523,"text":"馬斯克就為了烏克蘭送上星鏈低軌衛星的服務那我們就讓世界看到低軌衛星的重要性所以想請教一下說既然打造低軌衛星的護國星群那麼重要那我們現在到底有什麼樣的產業發展有投入科研上的積極規劃嗎比如說加速技術研發或尋找國際合作的夥伴"},{"start":4606.164,"end":4630.339,"text":"又或者說輔導廠商來投入這樣的一個行列所以目前我們有什麼樣國防視野或戰略性的規劃那有沒有辦法加速進行跟委員報告對這個LEO來講我們現在太空中心就有二加四二的話就是前面有提到的EA跟EBEA的籌載我們是買現成的就是要學怎麼去設計籌載還有整合測試然後EB我們就要自主研發"},{"start":4633.661,"end":4658.652,"text":"另外呢要帶動產業我們還有四顆利誘基本上來講就是要帶動台灣具有系統整合能力的低軌道衛星的廠商去發展那四顆可以帶動產業那剛剛委員講得很好國際合作非常重要如果有緊急的狀況的話我們可以跟國外大的新系來做國際的合作用成熟的方式可是我們成熟的時候也是要強調我們的這個主權也就是說我們必須要掌握他的主權"},{"start":4660.583,"end":4675.953,"text":"是 以上報告好 謝謝那接下來我們再繼續來跟吳主任請教就是說我們國際太空交流的部分因為今年3月吳主任你有率隊前往美國華盛頓去參加國際太空衛星展會"},{"start":4676.894,"end":4703.605,"text":"那以台灣形象館的這個姿態來展出那也展示台灣太空的這個產業地圖那今年四月吳主任你也有去美國科羅拉多來參加第四十屆那個太空博覽會那主任那時候你有提到說希望藉由太空教育跟立方衛星計畫的活動來充分運用台灣的太空技術化為國際合作參與的重要基礎"},{"start":4704.585,"end":4726.482,"text":"那你也提到說台灣的太空面臨最大的挑戰其實就是在對岸中國那為了突破中國對我們國際組織的封鎖所以真的要很肯定我們太空中心積極參與世界這個太空論壇的各項努力那我接著想要詢問的是說那我們九月"},{"start":4727.422,"end":4755.984,"text":"有一個澳洲雪梨要辦的2025國際太空大會那吳主任應該也會團團參加那你有什麼樣準備什麼樣的內容要跟我們分享首先要感謝政府因為我們變行政府之後資源真的變得比較多所以在比較像多邊的國際太空合作就變得更多尤其剛剛委員講的這個三月的這個space symposium我們從那邊接觸到非常多所以從那邊衍生過來非常多我舉個例子像"},{"start":4756.664,"end":4782.086,"text":"台發的合作我們有非常緊密的合作還有跟英國有非常緊密的合作我想這邊因為時間的關係沒有辦法講得很詳細然後這個澳洲這個叫IAC它是不過這個IAC它主要是一個國際除了美國以外最大的年會我們每一年我們同事都有不少的工程師會參與但是因為這個年會基本上它這個中國的影響力相當的大"},{"start":4782.666,"end":4806.519,"text":"所以我們在那邊的這個真正的position比較尷尬所以我們還在思考要怎麼如何比較積極的參與好 那除了今年有預計這個9月要去澳洲雪梨以外你還有預計未來要跟哪些國家進行雙方的交流那達成什麼樣的目標就剛剛講過的像跟法國"},{"start":4807.499,"end":4830.133,"text":"法國跟我們的合作一個 top priority 就是太空還有跟波蘭還有跟美國當然跟美國跟日本像我們今年三月底就跟日本簽了一個正式的合作的備忘錄有很多所以我想這個太空這個東西非常的貴所以國際合作是必須的好 辛苦吳主任了也謝謝副主委謝謝主席謝謝謝謝議員 請回座"},{"start":4843.322,"end":4845.483,"text":"好謝謝我們接下來請陳秀寶委員質詢謝主席請國科會林副主委及太空中心吳主任好請林副主委吳主任"},{"start":4860.917,"end":4879.383,"text":"陳委員早早安副主委早我國的民眾都非常關心我們國科會太空科技跟太空發展的這個相關的規劃那過去我們一直在國際新聞看其他國家發射火箭我們的國人也非常期盼有一天我們台灣可以自製衛星自製火箭發射到太空"},{"start":4880.003,"end":4903.514,"text":"但我們從成立太空中心制定太空發展法到各大專案院向立方衛星不斷有好消息到現在我們已經可以來討論福威八號的這個騎乘以及2034年我們預計自製火箭送衛星入軌這些都是非常巨大而且影響深遠的進步本期在這邊要表示最大的肯定以及對大家的這些努力來繼續支持"},{"start":4905.475,"end":4930.723,"text":"賴清德總統在五月份視察太空中心的時候也看到了存在高度期待的這個福衛八號但是這邊想請教副主委及太空中心目前我們福衛八號的測試及驗證工作的進度是什麼另外福衛八號預計到美國發射那我們目前整備及相關的起運規劃是請我們這邊副主委或者是太空中心說一下"},{"start":4931.543,"end":4959.88,"text":"我的了解是目前測試還有驗證工作都進行了非常的順利細節我請吳主任前陣子就是那個EMC的測試已經完成昨天開始進行最後的校正因為有那個望眼鏡在做最後的校正應該是沒有問題就大概準備要開始他們有一個就是要發射測試完的一個比較大的審查會結束大概八月的時候會起運送到美國"},{"start":4960.2,"end":4965.546,"text":"所以目前一切都非常的順利也都按照期程那復會8號總共預計是有發射8顆的衛星目前是第一顆預計是明年要發射第二顆那後續我們相關衛星的製作都有在時程規劃上順利的進展嗎"},{"start":4977.62,"end":5000.91,"text":"沒錯 像1B現在幾乎整個已經都組裝起來了每年至少一顆 對 基本上是這樣謝謝主任那太空中心的衛星發射計畫之所以非常重要也主要是因為這次的福衛八號的關鍵元件我們自治率很高那我們除了協助太空產業元件取得相關的關鍵認證之外我們也必須要得到這個太空飛行的履歷"},{"start":5001.67,"end":5026.931,"text":"因為這是我們相關產業導入國際非常重要的門檻那也希望說我們在逐步的達成衛星入軌目標的時候也一起協助我們台灣的廠商來取得這些相關的認證那接下來要請教的是說在競逐太空的規劃裡面我不僅要努力提升自己關鍵元件的技術那其實國際合作是非常重要的一環那吳主任您在參加太空博覽會的時候有說會透過太空教育及立方衛星計畫來作為國際合作的基礎"},{"start":5029.193,"end":5050.14,"text":"那目前韓國也很積極的佈局太空戰略標示成為全國前五大太空強國在這邊要請教目前太空中心對於國際計畫有沒有比較具體的成果或是方式或是我們在目前有沒有具體的遇到怎樣的交流的主力再來以韓國為例我們有沒有首要要合作的國家名單或是比較理想的合作對象"},{"start":5050.52,"end":5065.552,"text":"我想台灣因為國際政治的關係我們的首要的合作對象當然是美國還有日本當然歐洲法國是一個非常重要的合作對象然後因為我們台灣的太空大概衛星的製造技術我想大概全世界"},{"start":5066.312,"end":5090.668,"text":"大概在15名加減3所以我們有一定的實力可以協助像菲律賓或者其他的國家另外我們在氣象衛星的籌載GNSSRO跟R我們有相當的在全世界跟美國同時是算相當領先的這個是可以做一個非常好的外交工具然後協助達到量測氣象衛星的資料的目的"},{"start":5096.752,"end":5108.02,"text":"當然我們有非常優秀的原件製造技術這也是我們可以去跟大家合作的一個基礎那剛才說到這些國家是已經有一些具體相關的規劃了嗎"},{"start":5127.233,"end":5151.309,"text":"這個委員報告好那您會後再移分資料給我辦公室這邊其實要強調我們慶祝太空不只是說我們科技的競爭從來其實也是未來國力及戰略很重要的這個競爭的目標那台灣的太空科技跟誰合作怎麼合作就會顯得是非常的重要那也希望說我們是審慎的交流但是要大膽前行希望國科會跟太空中心可以帶領相關的太空產業我們要持續的來前進"},{"start":5154.051,"end":5177.748,"text":"有提到说主任参加太空博物馆会的时候有支持有说我们会透过太空教育立方卫星计划来作为国际合作的基础那办理相关的竞赛就是一个很好的方法太空中心有办理台湾杯火箭竞赛那决赛的时间在下个月月底那虽然亚洲的其他国家都有办理但是其实参赛的资格大部分都是大学那我们台湾比较特别这次台湾杯火箭竞赛的"},{"start":5178.228,"end":5194.273,"text":"中學主我們是以中學為主是亞洲的首例那對於這次太空中心辦理這個競賽呢本席也是給予最大的肯定跟支持那對於這次的競賽太空中心你們希望說傳遞給學生的概念知識大概是一個怎樣的方向"},{"start":5194.878,"end":5217.362,"text":"我想是讓這個學生首次可以自己用團隊的概念然後他所學到的科學知識然後真的變成一個產品一個系統可以飛上天空我想對任何一個這太空教育來講是扮演非常對他們未來一輩子不管他有沒有從事太空教育太空的科技我想是影響非常大的"},{"start":5218.383,"end":5229.875,"text":"謝謝主任喔而且有聽說有國外的學生是血腥尋問過是不是能夠參加所以這個活動如果未來這個比賽如果回饋很好的話太空中心有沒有計畫將來將台灣飛火箭競賽往國際競賽的方向來前進一定會的"},{"start":5235.18,"end":5255.599,"text":"会因为太空产业的人才其实涵盖很多专业透过竞赛的方式我们吸引很多有兴趣的孩子来参加也像主任说的让我们在竞赛过程了解火箭的制作认证相关的程序了解才能带来进步而且这么如果有优秀的这些竞赛成绩这往后也会是我们台湾发展太空这个"},{"start":5256.44,"end":5275.125,"text":"一個很重要的一個標竿希望說太空中心這邊持續努力我跟主席接一點時間最後這邊要來關心一下我們台灣火箭發射場址的這個時程今年3月國客會已經選定九盆為國家火箭的發射場的場址那地方也非常的期待可以因為火箭發射場的設置帶來火箭經濟效益來活絡地方經濟及發展"},{"start":5280.987,"end":5286.817,"text":"當然後續還需要做相關的開發規劃及環評那本席這邊想了解一下相關的進度如何那個環評已經開始在進行了"},{"start":5291.596,"end":5317.045,"text":"就已經有在規劃有在進行那因為其實我們自己自製火箭搭載我國自製衛星如果順利的在自己的國家火箭的發射場子升空我想這對我們相關的科研人員以及對國人都是一個很振奮的很期待那也希望說我國的太空實力可以持續在國際間戰舞我們大家一起努力好謝謝國科會謝謝主委好謝謝委員謝謝陳秀巴委員副主委請回"},{"start":5322.133,"end":5323.513,"text":"接下來我們請謝龍介委員主席 我請這個副主委跟這個吳主任好 有請副主委跟吳主任"},{"start":5348.647,"end":5369.614,"text":"市委員早請問我用合理的 你覺得有困難沒問題我們兩個都沒問題請說都沒問題委員我是台南人喔喔 台南 你住哪裡安南區喔 這樣好像港區啦我來請教你這個第二期跟第三期"},{"start":5378.715,"end":5394.785,"text":"我們第二季進行 執行差不多六七十趴而已是不是第二季的結尾 有完成的你現在的第三季 總共增加到六百五十億這樣這個六百五十億 增加這個五成這麼多是在原本結尾 延期的第一部分"},{"start":5407.642,"end":5432.054,"text":"我先回答 主要我們是沿線上的遙控車 最新的有八輪 還有一個合成空間有兩輪因為過去這幾年 行政委員會有一些擔當 因為這個低軌道通信車所以現在我們有加六輪出來 加飛行的技術所以加起來 加出來的主要是這14輪裡面 包括這個駕駛規則 這輪車"},{"start":5436.809,"end":5452.557,"text":"裡面有多少%是可以軍事使用?一般來說,這輛車都是雙用,因為它叫做Dual Use,就是說軍民,譬如說你行駛,你能行駛50公分所以,對著我們國的軍事工業發展,會有最大的幫助"},{"start":5458.885,"end":5479.478,"text":"因為一般有車輛用的都是在一些地方不方便所以這跟軍事工業,看你怎麼改定啦,這不是做武器啊對定位有影響嗎?對定位?我們現在做的東西跟定位沒有關係沒有關係,所以跟我們飛行的定位完全沒有關係那麼我們飛行的定位完全就是用美國的GPS"},{"start":5484.781,"end":5494.548,"text":"對 或是有放一份的QGSS那我們就會選擇到哪一國合作 占多少你是說在亞洲來說 在火井的部分發射到維生的數額"},{"start":5500.97,"end":5517.695,"text":"第一名應該是日本跟中國日本跟中國應該是在第一定位第一class的地方我們合作對象當然是跟日本可能是美國沒有嗎?怎麼可能呢?因為委員說是亞洲啦當然美國是我們需要的我們吃美國白的豉油大汗怎麼可能沒有美國我來"},{"start":5529.076,"end":5531.759,"text":"如果這樣這手法針對火箭發射的部分是用什麼燃料"},{"start":5535.522,"end":5560.077,"text":"我們未來會用這個液體 用這個 用這種煙油跟液體氧新的發電 我們去補這裡面那你發電是要向發生機 現在是向發 還要跟別人做我想這個火箭這個東西 它要需要建立的基礎工業 基礎的建設費用最多所以這需要時間我們的工業系統跟我們的商業鏈 有辦法支持你的火箭發電嗎"},{"start":5563.379,"end":5573.405,"text":"因為我以前在台北當時我去過台北市所以我知道在這樣的情形下原本的我們的工業過去是不是受到經濟因素的限制?有嗎?有有嘛所以這是台灣發展太空事業非常無難的地方"},{"start":5584.628,"end":5598.241,"text":"在這樣的情形下,為什麼我們的新的太空室有去修構到針對飛機重複使用這個技術,或者我們的身份是很大的,而且我們的身份起來,"},{"start":5602.264,"end":5614.85,"text":"定義很特寫 那麼在未來的五年 七十年所有的衛生發射 我們會變成完全沒有競爭力本身這樣跟你說是比較不好意思 這是一個屬實 真正你們的屬實那麼是經費不足 其實是說可以在適度增加經費的增益化改變你發展廢棄的基礎"},{"start":5629.495,"end":5642.3,"text":"我認為這個肥錢的技術是要一步一步踏進去當然我認為委員說的是肥錢的維修 是這個技術當然是在我們的土地裡面 但是我們現在目前到...主任我告訴你 因為本來白人的油店我們要餓對 中國大陸有很多科技晶板發電 但是都是效法升值"},{"start":5657.153,"end":5671.491,"text":"我們台灣有這個技術,有這個基礎,如果覺得想要對人家的課程去走,很可惜,很可惜,我相信飛機那麼發射之後,重複回收,"},{"start":5672.523,"end":5682.234,"text":"已經不是很短暫的科技了以現在的太空科技來說應該是台灣有那個能力對這個方向來發展那麼如果要這樣發展再把我們本身原有想要整個發射的衛星來委託給雙翼發射"},{"start":5693.886,"end":5703.148,"text":"這樣你不覺得這樣成本會更低嗎?發電會是需要一定的時間,我跟韓國人...我了解,一定的時間,但是越早發研究的人,時間越多這樣就要麻煩委員支持...沒有問題,越晚發電的人,他可以有效發展就是因為他吸收別人失敗的經驗"},{"start":5718.431,"end":5726.436,"text":"所以我認為,現在要跟你請教的是說,我們國有辦法針對這個風雄去做研究那件事,我們在技術上完全不可能技術上我想是有可能,只是我想是經費,還有時間我知道經費嘛,所以你就是說"},{"start":5735.521,"end":5754.973,"text":"你想想嘛,你開一百個、兩百個、三百個、五百個,做一般的廠,如果我們粗敵突破的技術,這對台灣的太空室來說比較是真真正正,不用想政敵因素,政敵當然有包括國來跟國外,跟國際的政敵因素,所以本席在這裡就是說,應該,"},{"start":5757.334,"end":5765.841,"text":"有辦法提出一個比較修律的辦法 公開是不是你可以在一個月內 針對中北蘇擁灰燼發射的部分來跟本醫 做一個書面的報告 有辦法嗎可以 好 謝謝委員好 感謝蔣龍蓋委員的接訊 副主委的請回我們接下來請張雅琳委員"},{"start":5791.744,"end":5796.452,"text":"謝謝主席 我們邀請副主委跟太空中心的主任好 林副主委還有吳主任請"},{"start":5797.984,"end":5820.096,"text":"我可以先請主任講一下嗎?我剛剛有聽到外媒林委員有關心有關於BG-5的一個現在製作的一個狀況跟我們工研院的一個合作的狀況那其實因為我上次的諮詢在諮詢國會的時候我就非常關心我們這個B5G的這件事情所以這個目前聽起來好像是你們會回去再做一些討論那這個是不是有結論的時候呢?也可以讓我們有這份報告"},{"start":5821.997,"end":5828.313,"text":"你可以跟我們說明喔 是我想大家都非常關心這件事情這個是可以的嗎是沒問題好那我們就先回來今天我要質詢的問題"},{"start":5831.67,"end":5854.672,"text":"主要是說,因為其實我看到2024年5月的時候呢,韓國的宇宙航空廳呢,他們被稱為是全韓國,他們是要來發展航空的一些航天技術啦,然後來發展這個對於航天產業等等的標誌的韓國的太空人,要進入一個新的世代。"},{"start":5855.473,"end":5872.147,"text":"那也要推動韓國成為全球的太空強國並且他們已經宣示了一個目標是要擠進全世界前五強那他們甚至也成立了一個太空政策的一個決策委員會像是太空委員會那也寫出了非常清楚的五年的願景"},{"start":5873.488,"end":5893.264,"text":"那我自己在想說其實兩國的太空使其實我們並沒有起步的比較晚可是我們好像走的方向有點不太一樣因為他們的目標其實是世界前五強可是我們在第三期的太空計畫呢我們的主要目標我覺得我們是這樣寫的就是要發展高解析度的光學遙測衛星超高解析度的光學衛星組成完成的星系守護台灣"},{"start":5894.245,"end":5907.864,"text":"這些好像都是比較一個實質面實務面的東西它不是一個更願景面的東西所以我會認為說可能這個我們到底雖然我們這樣寫但我們心裡有沒有一個目標我們要成為世界前幾強呢"},{"start":5909.445,"end":5927.205,"text":"好 我跟委員報告那基本上我們跟TASA跟CASA比起來其實目前在經費跟人力大概都只有人家的五分之一那原因很簡單以前我們整個太空計畫其實是非常的保守的像以TASA為例它也是在兩年前才"},{"start":5928.126,"end":5948.313,"text":"正式成為行政法人之後才開始有比較遠大的計畫所以目前看起來都是比較實際上的東西因為你沒有實際上的目標基本上科技預算是很難爭取到的至於是不是有一個有很宏大的願景我們是有很宏大的願景我請吳主任說明一下好 謝謝"},{"start":5949.013,"end":5964.647,"text":"我想全世界的太空科技對台灣也一樣我們大概有兩個最重要的願景第一個是維護國家安全因為剛講過這個太空的資產其實是Dual use民用也可以還有國家需要也可以"},{"start":5964.847,"end":5993.377,"text":"第二個是我想一個很重要的任務是要促進台灣的太空經濟的發展成為全世界整個太空產業一個很重要的供應鏈之一這是兩個最重要的願景根據這個願景才會發展出這些剛剛講的衛星、雷射光動力甚至衛星載具的發展這樣整個計畫才有辦法去但是因為我們的經費以前長期30年其實如果跟韓國比起來大概差了快五倍這個我們是需要時間"},{"start":5994.617,"end":6022.784,"text":"去追上的所以我之所以這樣提所以我認為就是說當然我們還是要我們會要進行實質面的盤點然後設立這些新竹的各個下面的子計畫的一些目標我們才能夠去爭取預算所以我自己認為我們畢竟是競逐太空是世界現在最重要的一個任務一個工作我們應該還是要一個我們到底要站在哪個位置我們才足以競逐太空對不對所以這個願景的目標應該還是要非常非常的明確"},{"start":6024.204,"end":6040.43,"text":"那這個就變成說我接下來有幾個點因為剛剛其實但是主任跟副主委其中都有做一些說明就在經費的部分那經費的部分目前看起來我們直接到這一頁好了我們的確是略略略遜一籌啦但是其實我們在這個在"},{"start":6047.83,"end":6067.75,"text":"我們在第三期的時候呢當時是有你們送到行政院要把實質的時程再往上拉拉到2031年然後經費其實我們又再加碼了超過400億那所以政策目標上面並有沒有再做一些新的調整呢在針對這第三期的延長跟加碼之後"},{"start":6069.911,"end":6091.366,"text":"那個跟委員報告那基本上我們現在說的是比較務實基本上就是希望未來台灣在這個遙測衛星還有LEO就是低軌道通訊衛星的部分都能夠有自己的這個完整的星系然後同時候呢除了兼顧國家安全之外也能夠把產業所以目標是沒有修正只在學務面上面的工作項目做調整主要是要把那個通訊的產業"},{"start":6094.088,"end":6105.012,"text":"整個台灣的產業帶起來好 了解那我就問一個問題那就是說因為目前看起來就是說我們在113年的話產值推估大概是2600到2800億嘛對不對那主要的成長就是這個B5G嘛那我們是有辦法達成118年我們現在有設定一個目標嘛就是衛星產值要達照這個目標現在是可行的嗎你們現在評估"},{"start":6115.477,"end":6133.681,"text":"根據我看成長的情形還有因為台灣本身在半導體跟ICT這兩個東西在全世界的衛星產業裡面非常非常重要所以我想這個成長是可以預期的但是我看一下因為你們自己寫說設定產值要達照的話目標每年要成長28.21%但這幾年其實只有9%實際上跟目標落差非常大"},{"start":6139.873,"end":6150.592,"text":"我想是有很多基礎建設要完備以後才有辦法成長比較快所以那這到底是因為我們現在已經114年了嘛你基礎設施什麼時候完備因為你目標是在118年就要達成啦"},{"start":6152.31,"end":6170.376,"text":"我這個舉那個SRB的一個我們就自主開發這個低軌通訊衛星的籌載這個為例這個東西就是我們希望未來可以建置國內非常完整的ODM的生態系就像現在台灣的ICT產業一樣有這個能力以後你才有辦法去接人家全世界的"},{"start":6170.776,"end":6192.226,"text":"我懂我懂我的意思是說好沒關係因為時間有限好那我想沒關係這個事後呢因為既然118年剛剛說是可以達成達到照這個目標產值達照這個目標的話那我就需要知道說你們怎麼去達成這118年會達照因為以目前我收到的數字來說我自己算了一下基本上應該是非常困難才對"},{"start":6193.286,"end":6206.391,"text":"但是你剛有說基礎建設如果做好後面就會快好那我也同意那我就想知道那這個時程你們大概是怎麼樣那這個是不是會後我們再約來討論或是給我分報告可以嗎好不好可以來說明那我最後抱歉我再講一件事情就是說"},{"start":6208.408,"end":6227.071,"text":"因為我們其實在目前我們其實是希望說因為剛剛有講其實我們有做很多的基礎建設對不對希望可以達成國家安全國家的這個發展等等的那我們之前是有一個目標希望我們可以達成百分之百完全台制那這幾年我們持續的往這個目標前進嘛那下一個"},{"start":6228.152,"end":6247,"text":"福衛八號是有機會達到這個目標的嗎或者是說如果達不到百分之百他會突破裂縫者的百分之八十三嗎當然會突破大概我們目標是因為我們福巴有好幾顆嘛到最後希望可以九十五%為什麼要有其他五%因為有些東西沒有必要自己做啦是"},{"start":6248.28,"end":6263.942,"text":"對 因為這個提到就是說沒有辦法達現在因為好像從審計部的報告來看是因為電池還有S頻段收發機以及反應輪技術門檻非常高所以自製 現在是自製欸不對喔 這個是現在我收到的資料是你們自製上無法取代外購欸"},{"start":6265.755,"end":6290.488,"text":"其實像插片的那個產品其實都可以自製然後現在我們有兩個一個是solar panel然後再加上電池這兩塊其他的大概都快接近成熟的階段了所以你的意思是說我們可以期待福衛八號達成95%對對這是我們目標這是你們的目標對ok好那這個的話可不可以再把相關的計劃和說明提供給我好不好好謝謝"},{"start":6293.697,"end":6300.201,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員 副主委請回接下來請郭育晴委員好 謝謝主席 有請副主委好 有請林副主委"},{"start":6312.313,"end":6329.112,"text":"郭委員早好林副主委早安我想近期國科會積極推動五大信賴產業包含半導體另外還有人工智慧以及資通安全關鍵領主還有太空科技我想台灣的太空科技"},{"start":6330.253,"end":6341.939,"text":"這個角色其實也進入到一個另外一個非常重要的一個關鍵的時刻那我們所知道的就是首批有六顆的低軌衛星當中其實我們的第一顆預計是在2027年要發射這個時程會延後嗎還是會準時會如期"},{"start":6348.402,"end":6369.57,"text":"好 那我想要再加問的就是說這些所謂的這個低軌衛星有沒有在設定上就是他們的任務的設定上有沒有跟比方說像防災中心或者是海巡署 農委會或者是其他的一些比較相關的一些部門來建立所謂的這個需求的一個界面還是我們就是只有停留在這個科研的階段"},{"start":6371.185,"end":6394.165,"text":"我們也有跟經濟部等跨部會的合作基本上它還是屬於實驗性的衛星主要是做一些技術上的驗證還有一些培育我們在低軌衛星方面的產業所以目前都應該嚴格上來講算是在科研階段可以這麼說嗎"},{"start":6396.173,"end":6403.082,"text":"1A1B4在科研階段後面有4顆2加4後面4顆就是衛星製造平台這個是我們希望可以培養國內有兩家衛星的系統整合商"},{"start":6414.138,"end":6427.216,"text":"裡面我們的RFP會讓他們一定要跟國際大廠合作所以這是我們的設計所以希望以後國內有比較完整的系統商也有做原件的廠商這樣整個生態系會比較健康完整"},{"start":6427.757,"end":6448.004,"text":"那既然我們要跟國外合作其實真的就扣到另外一個這個我想要詢問的一些主題了就是我想這個太空應該是下一個戰略科技的戰場我想這個大家其實都不否認那制度上的規劃就不能只是所謂的附屬的一個工具了那其實它也跟這個國安緊緊相扣那這個部分我想"},{"start":6448.464,"end":6477.279,"text":"已經不是能不能發射衛星的一個問題它可能還牽扯到我們到底能不能夠由台灣這邊來自主監控那能不能夠及時處理能不能夠安全協作那這個部分我想呢在我們的太空法制的一個建制的一個制度上我不曉得這個國客會這邊有沒有一個比較確定的進程或者是目前我們的規劃還有我們的發展大概是怎麼樣可以請這個副主委來說明一下嗎"},{"start":6478.759,"end":6504.706,"text":"因為部會有分工比較屬於國安方面的基本上這部分應該是由速發部跟國安會在負責我們的部分主要還是在一些前瞻的科研還有如何帶動低軌道衛星的產業這是我們要負責的部分剛剛有說我們要跟國外來做合作吧我們在跟國外做合作的同時我們能不能夠跟國際合作當中掌握我們自己本身的主導權這個部分"},{"start":6505.646,"end":6524.676,"text":"是是那個委員講得很好基本上我們在跟國外談的時候因為到時候有一些臨時的需求我們的量沒有那麼大的時候一定要跟國外租用所以我們在跟他談的時候一定要談到這個主權也就是說我們在衛星在指揮上在使用上的控制權我們是必須要有自己的主權"},{"start":6525.296,"end":6545.867,"text":"所以這個是我們部分可以一定是可以掌握的對不對我們一定跟他們談的時候一定要掌握這方面的主權基本上在國際上還是有競爭不是一家獨大是是是好那接下來其實我比較想要就是請問我們的這個副主委就是包含我們的太空科技人才的這個部分了不管是人才的培育也好或者是我們在"},{"start":6546.307,"end":6551.009,"text":"引進國外的這個優秀的人才進到台灣我想這個昨天這個相關的產官學的代表特別齊聚在我們台灣離太空最近的地方就是我們跟太空最接近的地方就是我們的屏東那我們大概也都知道就是在我們的這個3月今年今年3月我們國家正式的發射場域我們也確定要落腳在這個屏東的九棚村"},{"start":6572.857,"end":6585.288,"text":"那我想這個地方政府其實是大力的在應該是說他們高度的一個投入但是呢其實也衍生出來有很多人力上的一個需求人才上面的一個需求那麼這些需求其實還包含所謂的這個熱控啦材料啦或者是研發啦設計啦甚至軌道的這個模擬的一些人才"},{"start":6594.015,"end":6612.731,"text":"那這個部分我們有沒有什麼樣一個近期的規劃因為我們知道其實台灣在這個79年11月就已經成立了國家太空科技發展長期計畫的規劃小組那我們的國客會當然也設立了我們這個國家太空中心那目前其實已經是進入到這個第三期的部分了"},{"start":6613.191,"end":6631.65,"text":"那我想人才培訓的部分其實是我們非常希望能夠知道也希望能夠積極來做這樣子的一個不管是人才的培育跟產官學上面的一個合作那這個部分我們有沒有一個比較進程的一個目前大概是進入到什麼樣的一個階段是不是請副主委也可以說明"},{"start":6632.15,"end":6654.48,"text":"那個跟委員報告基本上國科會比較是屬於這個太空科技人才的培育所以我們有開一些短期班那另一方面我們有跟經濟部合作就是在業界所需要的人才是由經濟部來培育然後最重要是教育部的部分我們目前國科會跟太空中心跟教育部已經合作成立了五間太空研究所"},{"start":6655.2,"end":6681.648,"text":"那這方面就是如同委員講的前瞻科技的研究不管是材料啦還有他一些前瞻的技術的人才的培育是非常的重要的所以目前都有按照我們的規劃進行當中都有按照規劃進行當中那我舉個例子來講像我們這個太空事務青年人才的選訓計畫那有沒有規劃產學合作實作的一些平台有實作的一個平台嗎目前"},{"start":6684.633,"end":6684.934,"text":"貨心工作"},{"start":6692.496,"end":6715.628,"text":"請吳主任我們其實非常積極跟你委員講的太空選訓其實都有持續在互動我們在看有沒有機會其實前幾天新聞剛有報導一位中央大學的他現在要去歐洲參加這個startup他其實就是從這邊出來從這個選訓工作授訓出來的所以我們持續有在做這個"},{"start":6716.708,"end":6737.976,"text":"因為今天時間的關係我想時間真的是不夠啦但是有一些如果有這個比較進程的一些規劃跟計劃或者是確實已經在執行的部分是不是可以提供給我們的辦公室因為我們其實也蠻想知道就是國科會目前有沒有一些實際的做法讓這些人才不管是參與他海外的一些實習也好或者是來駐外的單位的一些交流"},{"start":6739.156,"end":6759.617,"text":"那經營部再接受所謂的這個國際的訓練或者是技術上的一個培養等等這些確實的計畫再提供給我們辦公室好嗎好可以好謝謝謝謝副主委謝謝主席好謝謝郭雨琴委員副主委請回接下來我們請葉元芝委員質詢在葉元芝委員質詢後休息五分鐘"},{"start":6773.372,"end":6776.044,"text":"麻煩請副主委 謝謝好 有請林副主委"},{"start":6781.235,"end":6802.829,"text":"我們要發展太空計畫,人才很重要我們昨天也有去了解一下你們現在培育人才的情形我們可以看到這個檔案上面你們總共是分四個部分來培養人才第一個是國科會質詢的部分,叫做基礎人才培育第二個是產業人才,這個是經濟部產業發展署執行的"},{"start":6804.95,"end":6813.648,"text":"但是經濟部產業發展署執行的他不見得最後會投入到太空產業第三個也是一樣就是那個新創企業署執行部份也是一樣"},{"start":6814.434,"end":6831.601,"text":"那重點應該是放在第四個就是有關於太空系統工程研究所那這部分是教育部質詢我看連續兩年114年5月是有入學100人那114年預計在招收79人換句話說會有179個比較相對專業的屬於這個領域的人才那不知道說現在這個國客會對於我們人才招募有沒有一個比較精進的計畫有沒有"},{"start":6845.253,"end":6871.04,"text":"那基本上委員看到的這些都是比較specific的就是我們要辦一些專班或者是成立太空研究所可是在前面一些理工人才的培育其實那些經費其實都有涵蓋因為他如果沒有前面這一段的養成教育其實這些比較specific的東西也事實上是沒有辦法執行的因為我看到你們國會有一些計畫譬如說像第一個太空基礎人才培育計畫"},{"start":6872.04,"end":6900.989,"text":"那個計畫比較像是贏對的性質啊它像講座嘛 辦個四天大家來看一看感覺是培養基礎的興趣啊但至於說它最後會不會投入這又是另外一回事啊所以我們是希望說把經費用在 喔 真正喔當然這個也沒有不排斥去辦啦培養一下基礎興趣也不錯只是說我們是不是應該花更多的心力啊在更專業的人才上面喔那現在像我們昨天我們"},{"start":6902.336,"end":6915.176,"text":"辦公室也有去看了一下你們招募的情況這是104能力銀行你們有在104能力銀行招了很多職缺可是你仔細去看每一個職缺的應聘人都是零人沒有人來應聘"},{"start":6919.011,"end":6932.596,"text":"那太空中心這邊回覆是講說113年緣額486人都已經招滿了在去年底招滿那114年今年的緣額要增加55人那5月底的目前是再值是500人還要再招聘41人"},{"start":6934.036,"end":6953.77,"text":"我不知道說我們昨天有稍微了解一下好像你們的回覆是說因為薪資大概是4到6萬跟竹科的競爭力比較差啦就要可以吸引一些不用加班可以準時上下班的人來上班昨天你們私下的回覆是這樣不知道說你們有沒有什麼應聘的策略請吳主任"},{"start":6955.031,"end":6977.883,"text":"這可能委員看到的這些是今年剛上去的去年是整個都已經完全拼完拼了這看到是今年的第二個是我們今年還要再招四十一人嘛我們今年還有五十五個已經還剩四十一嘛對對對持續因為就在interview我們吸引的人才是比較特殊因為"},{"start":6978.703,"end":7002.642,"text":"因為現在在台灣的太空經濟規模還是很小所以我們吸引了大概大概在10%的年輕人對太空有興趣的我是提醒一下啦因為你看下一頁喔我們賴總統五月的時候才去新竹視察太空中心福威八號的進展的情況嘛那這個福威八號也是第三期國家太空科技發展長城計畫的第一個計畫賴總統也是對這個寄予厚望啦"},{"start":7005.504,"end":7017.133,"text":"就是說政府會從法制預算人才等面向及其發展所以人才這一塊是非常重要的我覺得也是提醒你們一下那另外問一個問題你看一下這一頁福衛一號二號"},{"start":7020.54,"end":7037.718,"text":"那時候是李登輝總統還有陳水扁總統當時發射可是你看那個火箭外面都有我們中華民國的國旗都有我們中華民國的國旗然後到了蔡英文總統時代福衛五號上面我們的國旗就不見了"},{"start":7038.419,"end":7060.299,"text":"那取而代之的是一些有我們台灣意向的像台灣藍雀、天燈、101大樓、蘭花稻米等台灣意向那當時國會也有辦一個全國兒童的征途比賽我覺得也都很好啦把台灣的意向發射到天空但是就沒有了我們的國旗那當時"},{"start":7061.994,"end":7080.928,"text":"政府的說法啦是講說呃好像從從福衛三呃說後來有頒布說除了美國以外的國家都禁止在火箭外殼放置國旗所以從福衛三號開始我們就改用台灣意向的文字或圖像取代有這回事嗎"},{"start":7082.134,"end":7109.484,"text":"跟委員報告那基本上因為一個火箭上面會有非常多的籌載我們的只是其中的一小部分所以我覺得這個事情應該是主因那細節是不是請吳主任說一下我想他們現在的原則都是放MISSION叫任務的LOGO另外一個剛剛就像副主委任務的LOGO什麼意思就像剛剛上面的右邊的那個圖不是國旗現在比較少除非這個整個火箭裡面在的籌載"},{"start":7111.105,"end":7117.735,"text":"幾乎都是我們為主因為現在我們的衛星在這樣的勢力裡面不是最主要的"},{"start":7119.265,"end":7143.889,"text":"國旗不是最主要的不是你看總統在視察福威八號衛星的時候就也有提到你們也有提到說要讓台灣製造飛向宇宙啦那有一些台灣人印象也不錯我的意思是說為什麼沒有國旗呢好你看一下下一頁韓國的部分2020年7月20號韓國SPEXX有一個獵鷹九號的火箭成功將韓國的軍事衛星"},{"start":7147.358,"end":7151.478,"text":"深空啦啊這個是韓國的衛星它上面就有他們國旗的意象"},{"start":7152.353,"end":7181.287,"text":"對,我剛剛講過它是主要的籌載就是它整顆火箭裝的是韓國最主要的我們現在的是跟人家一起做但是這件事我們還沒有跟SPAC我們會跟他再談看看是沒有可能但是有沒有可能把我們的國旗放上去我們要想辦法跟他協商所以不是你們講的那樣啦什麼除了美國以外什麼禁止其他國家的國旗因為當時的說法是這樣沒有這個說法是這樣沒有這個說法,不是這個原因就對了"},{"start":7184.309,"end":7201.163,"text":"因為這個原因就對了一般都只有放MISSION這一顆是很特殊因為它們的軍事衛星所以它很單獨一顆因為軍事衛星要送到一定的軌道所以整顆火箭做的就是只有它現在是我們一堆人一起做所以我想不大一樣"},{"start":7202.043,"end":7228.634,"text":"好然後再來最後就是我們在發展那個太空的過程當中如果有一些紀錄啊也可以把它放在博物館裡面啊如果有博物館的話當作也可以吸引大家來看嘛也可以增加台灣對於太空計畫的認識跟重視那像其他國家都有啊像這個是華盛頓的國家航空太空博物館啊它是世界最大的太空飛行器材的收藏的博物館"},{"start":7229.514,"end":7256.055,"text":"那其他很多國家也都有啦除了美國之外像加拿大然後這個俄羅斯英國日本還有中國大陸通通都有那我是覺得說如果有一個太空博物館的話可以從發射到太空艙回收物還有很多故事都可以留下來"},{"start":7257.216,"end":7271.944,"text":"那我不知道說這個國科會有沒有可能跟文化部和國防部溝通啦可以有機會可以成立台灣自己的太空博物館因為我們現在也在發展過程當中應該有很多東西可以收集有很多故事可以展示有沒有這個可能呢"},{"start":7272.984,"end":7297.554,"text":"這個委員的建議很好我們現在東部的發射產業從台東到屏東我們就會去蓋博物館跟蓋科學館就是而且可以配合這個國發會他的這個東部漫遊城鄉的這些計畫所以基本上來講除了科普之外也可以帶動地方的發展謝謝好謝謝好謝謝葉元之委員我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":7304.758,"end":7304.959,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":7620.789,"end":7623.991,"text":"現在繼續開會 接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢好 謝謝主席 幫我有請林副主委請林副主委"},{"start":7645.09,"end":7670.575,"text":"羅委員長好 副主委好副主委今天我們在討論競逐太空國科會的太空發展科技的這些佈局跟未來藍圖那剛剛也有其他的委員對於這一個我們太空相關的計畫不管是我們過往一些相關的一些任務性的導向或者是科研的一個導向那我們都有一些過往的計畫甚至實體故事"},{"start":7671.315,"end":7698.46,"text":"那剛剛也有提到你有說要作為一些不管是太空博物館或者是科學館有沒有一種想法你是台中人那台中科博館有沒有機會在就在這個科博館能夠把這些太空計畫的故事能夠再更新也好能夠再讓這些計畫能夠在國人更多的一個機會在台中來做一個曝光這部分您覺得呢"},{"start":7699.889,"end":7721.736,"text":"好 跟那個委員報告其實科博館裡面本來就有太空相關的展覽我知道然後那個是由 我就說更新對對對然後那個是由國研院還有跟太空中心一起連展的那未來呢我們現在想法就是說就是我們配合我們的發射產育還有國發會的這個東部城鄉漫活的計畫我們會把"},{"start":7723.357,"end":7749.919,"text":"目前的規劃會把這個科博館跟這個人才培育的這些博物館等等的放在這個東部那未來如果推動的成效很好我們可以去規劃看看看在其他的台灣其他地方是不是也有機會能夠蓋新的館或者是把這些展覽的內容做巡迴的展覽好 我為什麼會這樣講因為我們從這一次的國科會的報告中指出"},{"start":7751.3,"end":7773.511,"text":"我們的太空政策已經從早期的科研導向那已經轉向任務導向那我覺得對這樣的一個報告我們表示肯定但是從實際的規劃內容來看許多計畫仍在技術驗證跟平台建置為主那並未真正從任務需求的一個出發反推技術的一個發展整合應用場景例如我們現在稱之為B5G"},{"start":7774.972,"end":7803.092,"text":"那現階段低軌通訊的衛星計畫主軸人集中在通訊的一個籌載採購地面的測試平台整合還沒有清楚定義應用在目標服務對象更無從談起國防資通訊災防海洋等領域的深度鏈接這樣的做法與所謂的任務導向政策顯示我覺得還有一段距離那您覺得呢"},{"start":7804.51,"end":7831.133,"text":"那個公委員報告那基本上來講因為我們在這個低軌道通訊衛星的起步比較慢可是另一方面呢我們在遙測不管是光學啦或者是紅外線方面我們其實是已經有比較好的這個基礎那所以未來我們真的是就如同委員講的我們在這個低軌道通訊衛星不管是技術的研發或者是帶動產業的發展甚至應用這個是我們未來要努力積極的地方"},{"start":7832.099,"end":7853.108,"text":"所以我覺得任務導向應該明確的需求用驅動的技術設計例如針對災害預警偏鄉通訊漁業的監測還有離岸風電等具體場景研發對應的衛星載具以及通訊服務我覺得想要問一下國科會目前B5G1A跟1B的通訊任務實際上"},{"start":7855.189,"end":7882.657,"text":"預計服務的哪些族群應用於哪些領域是否由太空中心內部自行設定的一個技術指標在無明確的牽引情況之下是否會導致衛星設計與產業發展的方向有點錯置國會應該清楚明確的去做相關的計畫來跟我們說明如何對接我國的戰略任務您覺得呢是 我請吳主任說明好 請說"},{"start":7883.958,"end":7888.026,"text":"其實EAEB這兩顆主要是實驗型的低軌道通訊為主也都是通訊為主"},{"start":7891.419,"end":7918.641,"text":"對 它主要是因為要執行因為我們國內業界產業你地面的設備要跟上面要整個連起來就端對端的整個的聯合測試這個技術是沒有那麼簡單所以剛剛我們的副主委特別講說我們起步稍微慢所以因為這樣說我們要建置所有的驗測的包括地上天上的平台讓業者可以執行端對端的測試當然這很重要 沒有錯啦只是因為我們的"},{"start":7919.642,"end":7936.642,"text":"國科會報告就寫得很清楚是任務性導向所以當然我們給予的一些寄予眾望我想洛克科會將這個低軌衛星定位為我國未來數位基礎的一個設施的一環將更應用在納入各部會共同設計的一個任務需求"},{"start":7937.162,"end":7964.877,"text":"以及服務目標避免出現技術研發與實際的實務上的應用會有脫節的一個情況所以目前是否已經有跟速發部交通部內政部以及實務應用的單位參與這一次B5G 1A跟1B的任務設計技術規格討論還有服務整合那有沒有整合這樣子的相關計畫然後甚至有跨部會的任務協調避免整個任務跟實務脫節"},{"start":7966.058,"end":7993.333,"text":"有嗎 我跟委員補充一下就是第一個這個是一個跨部位尤其是跟經濟部跟其他部位我舉其中一個要做實驗就是寬頻的視訊這些我想是就是在模擬未來的實際的應用這個其實有很多項的實驗實驗不是只有連接還有很多未來實際包括AIoT包括剛剛講的寬頻視訊所以這個是符合未來任務的需求當然這是一個重要基礎我們沒有說不重要只是說它是"},{"start":7994.314,"end":8011.797,"text":"一開始實驗性的最重要的一個基礎去做一個擴展延伸對我知道我能夠體諒但是我還是要說就是說我們會擔心嘛在這樣子的一個基礎上也就是紮馬步馬步紮得穩當然很棒未來就有很大的無限可能"},{"start":8011.997,"end":8030.638,"text":"但是不要忘記跟實務上不要有脫節這是我們所擔切的擔心所以我也希望說從今天的計畫我們看到有科研有任務甚至有相關的計畫2027相關的未來的部署我們都希望說有些可以再做更新未來是不是能夠在我們的科博館"},{"start":8031.659,"end":8052.276,"text":"有一些相關的計畫或者是未來展望不知道我們的副主委你有看過台中市政府有所謂的城市未來的一個展區在台中市政府一樓嗎沒有有機會可以去看一下是他在規劃整個城市的過往經來那也希望說跟大家講願景館"},{"start":8053.917,"end":8074.256,"text":"那未來有沒有這個機會有關於所謂的太空科技的發展有這個願景甚至未來的部署然後有些先行的計畫能夠呈現出一些故事來更新在科博館讓這些孩子能夠有太空夢能夠再看到我們台灣所屬的太空計畫這部分我也希望你能夠評估一下"},{"start":8074.716,"end":8100.958,"text":"好 謝謝委員我想做一個展區不是說一定要把這個東西拿過來放在這邊因為畢竟你們還在使用甚至有些東西不一定能夠曝光但是是不是有一種太空的願景館能夠再更新在科博館我知道本身科博館就有這一類的一些相關展區但是我希望說有更進一步的更新讓孩子能夠看到因為科博館其實很多的一些一體設施您在台中你也知道它是我們曾經北區"},{"start":8102.239,"end":8129.236,"text":"還有西區的驕傲但有一些硬體設施我曾經去看過裡面還在用滑鼠點東西我們都在用觸控裡面還有用滑鼠所以我也希望說當然這個科博館不是你們的一個要照顧的一個機關但是未來它裡面的一些展區有你們的東西這是我們希望說這次國科會能夠有來幫忙的地方這個您覺得呢"},{"start":8129.696,"end":8145.226,"text":"好 謝謝委員的建議科博館裡面的一些展覽尤其是太空方面的它都要適時的更新所以下一次更新的時候我會請太空中心把委員所指教的這些太空的願景要有故事化把它納入裡面"},{"start":8145.686,"end":8171.896,"text":"好那是不是可以一兩個月內有沒有這樣的計畫先行給我們好我們把那個規劃先期的規劃計畫我們再送到委員的辦公室不要強人所難但是說有沒有這個機會能夠更新一些東西那你們內部去看科博館的一些太空展覽是不是有一些過於老舊的幫我們關心一下給予指證也好給予科博館一些指導這個我們都希望今天副主委可以幫我們這個忙我會請太空中心積極的去辦理好謝謝委員"},{"start":8176.512,"end":8192.945,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員質詢副主委請回座接下來請范雲委員質詢謝謝秀寶主席有請副主委請副主委"},{"start":8196.864,"end":8225.763,"text":"范委員好副主委您好時間有限我今天想針對人設的這個領域就是來跟您討論您應該有看到人設人才不斷的流失現在大學文史法證選庭率依據報紙講是受到AI熱潮的影響選庭率只有七成連台大法律系都有缺額那這部分我請辦公室幫我整理一下"},{"start":8226.443,"end":8234.771,"text":"近五年來就是科發基金中人設研發的經費佔比越來越少如果110年度是10.09%到114年度只剩7.94%"},{"start":8241.457,"end":8245.939,"text":"那我不知道為什麼人設研發經費因為我們整體都是提升的嘛總預算從400多億到714億那可是佔比的話人設研發經費我知道它本來就比較少因為就是比較不需要就是高科技尖端昂貴的器材"},{"start":8260.086,"end":8266.93,"text":"可是占比越來越少我覺得還是個危機喔那跟您就是分享一下如果我們從教育部來看我們的人設的系所的占比的話結構來講的話我們是OECD最後一名耶"},{"start":8275.695,"end":8279.338,"text":"所以我們本來這相關的畢業學生就讀的學科結構這部分我過去也有質詢過本來就太低了所以並不是所有的經濟發展國家都不重視人設台灣在人設學系的訓練人才來比人才就比較少了經費又這麼少"},{"start":8296.914,"end":8323.822,"text":"那我剛剛我知道我們國科會有三個副主委嘛我們主委是電機博士您也是電機相關的博士對不對然後另外一位陳副主委是資訊過去也是相關的博士然後我們常務副主委是土木博士所以你們三位副主委中是哪一位主管人設的領域的"},{"start":8325.753,"end":8334.779,"text":"跟委員報告是另外一位陳秉宇副主委OK是陳副主委好那他今天沒有到對不對是但是我想我還是想要問你們這個問題就是我在2023年當時還是科技部的時候我們前部長就承諾說我講的在泰德因為泰德是我們非常重要的一個就是AI的這個發展台灣的這個本土前端"},{"start":8353.272,"end":8367.528,"text":"人文設計就要納入人文社會思維因為這個部分是我們研究國外其實就希望這樣做human in the loop你要在過程中設計的部分使用者回饋的部分各方面有可是我"},{"start":8368.509,"end":8388.084,"text":"兩次的要求你們回應我的東西好像都只是在後端我的三項要求降低資料庫偏見AI決策過程要加入人為社會參與研發人工道德行為者那這幾個部分那國科會這部分泰德還是你們的重要計畫嗎"},{"start":8389.005,"end":8415.817,"text":"你們到底要如何納入呢可不可以先回應我剛剛講的那個人設經費佔比越來越低從10%降到7%好 那個跟委員報告你也知道其實這幾年為了一些比較前瞻科技的發展例如精創 例如AI的算力還有為了淨零科技其實那部分的經費的比例是大幅度的成長所以以至於相對的人設的東西就好像就變得比例比較少"},{"start":8416.317,"end":8445.997,"text":"副主委請你暫停喔你剛講的包含像泰德對不對那這些裡面都不需要人設資源嗎我剛講的就是說其他的國家都談到這個Human in the Loop就是在這個過程中就要有人設的從一開始的研發到各部分喔那如果你都依照過去的比例的話他應該經費是要等比例啊因為你整體國科會的經費是增加嘛"},{"start":8446.577,"end":8467.288,"text":"那這部分就是說為什麼是不增反降而且降的幅度蠻多的從10%到7%等於是少了三分之一我說就百分比啦我跟那個委員報告基本上來講這整個科學產業的發展其實很多地方跟這個人設有關像舉個例子"},{"start":8469.325,"end":8498.144,"text":"這個科學園區的整個發展要必須要符合人性的部分還有包含它的這個我們講說它的日常的生活還有等一下 副主委你這樣讓我更驚訝了科學園區只有日常生活是跟人設相關不是不是 我不是這個意思我說很多跟人文有關的其實都包含在這些基礎所以就是電機博士也要吃飯這就是人設相關不是不是不是我說它的在文化方面的其實基本上這些我們都有考慮到他參加文化活動這是文化相關"},{"start":8499.005,"end":8513.335,"text":"副主委那這表示就是您的訓練中也非常缺乏這一塊絕對不是這樣子狹隘的理解的那我想經費的提升我待會會要求你們應該逐年回到就是說一定的比例不是說要發展"},{"start":8516.097,"end":8537.277,"text":"然後這方面就沒有那就像我講以AI為例我2023年跟2024年都針對AI的過程中那如何能夠有人設的參與是要從設計前端就要參與不是只有後來再測試使用者回饋的話找一些因為AI大數據涉及到的是語言"},{"start":8539.499,"end":8556.594,"text":"這個語言的話一個電機博士跟一個人設的博士他的感受就非常的不一樣而且當時我們講的是本土的繁體字的這個部分所以我想他如何校正如何提高精確度都跟我們的設計有關沒錯沒錯"},{"start":8558.996,"end":8576.929,"text":"沒錯跟委員報告其實這部分需要很多這個linguistic的人那linguistic的人基本上是屬於人文方面的而且最好是跨領域人才我們在這些資料庫的建置我們是找科證中心裡面有很多人文社會方面的人細節部分我可不可以請國防中心的"},{"start":8577.714,"end":8594.974,"text":"好 科證中心你講是哪一個科證中心就是國研院下面有個科證中心基本上台德一開始所有的資料庫裡面data的整備就是請科證中心在負責好 那我現在要講的是你整體的國科會在資源的配置上能不能讓就是說"},{"start":8596.515,"end":8620.994,"text":"未來十年我們這方面跨領域的人才覺得是被支持的那原本只有單一訓練的人他也會看到這個human in the loop的重要性如果你的經費沒有增加不能讓跨領域的人覺得或者原本就是說就是做科技決策相關的人或者原本做AI設計的人他能夠往這方向投入的話那其實大家就不會投入這個領域"},{"start":8622.075,"end":8638.213,"text":"所以我覺得長期的資料就是說跟我們的決策跟資源的配置我看到國科會出了蠻大的就是我個人覺得有偏差啦我不能說是錯誤就是說BIOS所以是不是請你們整體就兩件事情"},{"start":8640.455,"end":8664.407,"text":"這突然當掉了 下一頁就是第一個 國歌會應該要逐年提高人設研究經費比例不可以從10%降低到7%那第二個 AI發展的前端設計就應該要有人設的人才參與好不好 那這兩點 就是副主委多久之內可以給我一個初步的書面報告呢"},{"start":8666.027,"end":8694.397,"text":"我們一個月內給委員那我剛剛要講的就是說像我們前面在台德或者是一些精創裡面其實有些也是跟人設有關的只是它通通包在裡面所以您剛剛顯示的數據是專門給人設方面的研究可是在我剛剛講那些大包裡面包含淨嶺淨嶺裡面有個很重要的就是我們要有這個社會的轉型但裡面都是一些人文的東西裡面有個沙盒其實比例是非常高的"},{"start":8694.957,"end":8717.515,"text":"謝謝副主委的更正喔那因為我實在查不出來你們怎麼計算因為那你把正確的計算比例給我們辦公室好不好也是一樣過去五年內因為你有統計你才會關注這件事如果連基本的統計都拿不出來表示你們並不關心這件事情好不好我們非常關心人設方面的很關心喔好那謝謝那一個月內給我相關的報告是是是謝謝委員好謝謝范雲委員"},{"start":8722.279,"end":8724.92,"text":"副主委請回我們接下來請吳麗華委員謝謝主席第一個部分我想先請國家太空中心主任好有請吳主任委員長"},{"start":8745.556,"end":8765.72,"text":"主任好謝謝您我特別是要來謝謝您因為過去多次以來我針對我們太空發展法之後一些原鄉地區的發展包括科研火箭場域或者是國家發射場域我都有很多的關心包括地方的基礎建設或者是跟我們學校的一個配合"},{"start":8770.802,"end":8785.28,"text":"那這方面我都有很多的關心那特別是在5月29那一天我有就這些關心的部分再次的來質詢我們的主委那您呢也在昨天有特別來辦公室做一個報告"},{"start":8786.181,"end":8792.402,"text":"所以我關切的部分 我們可以看那個圖它其實就是一個生活圈雖然我們之前已經選定旭海做科研火箭廠之前我們又選定了九鵬作為國家的發射廠但是我們可以看到它非常鄰近的牡丹鄉的高市八窯部落"},{"start":8810.106,"end":8838.086,"text":"特別是我們的八瑤灣它其實呢就是在酒棚那個地方的出海口其實都是同一個生活領域傳統領域那或者是到非常積極的達仁鄉的南田他們是透過阿朗伊步道去做一個連結我想這個部分您都有提到都會全面的來做規劃那甚至是呢關於我們的這些太空博物館啊或者是增加工作機會"},{"start":8839.527,"end":8867.553,"text":"然後地方基礎建設的道路拓寬電力的線路配置自來水的工程這些基礎的設施甚至跟學校簽署這些合作備忘錄培育在地人才那最令人期待的就是你們在7月份會跟屏東縣政府辦理一個2025第一屆的台灣杯火箭競賽那首次的對象是高中跟大學生嘛那未來也會開放到社會組"},{"start":8868.813,"end":8891.406,"text":"我想總總這些您今天帶來的這個未來的太空藍圖的佈局我想這個應該都是非常基礎的那我希望說這個部分能夠在南台灣特別是我們的原邊鄉能夠發生能夠跟我們的太空有這樣的一個緊密聯繫我要特別謝謝您做這樣的一個規劃跟藍圖的撥劃那有沒有什麼要特別勉勵我們的地方"},{"start":8898.018,"end":8912.041,"text":"我想我們在當地建置這些我想國家發展太空非常重要的基礎建設除了這個太空需要的這個建設以外我想一個很重要的原則是與地方共融"},{"start":8913.004,"end":8936.689,"text":"然後相關的東西我們會非常積極地進行我們應該達到雙方共同的目標這基本的原則好 那就謝謝我們就繼續努力我們下次再跟時間賽跑那祝福我們一切順利那接下來我想要問一下人文社會科學研究發展處鄭瓊芬副處長"},{"start":8942.735,"end":8950.01,"text":"我想要问关于有关学门那不晓得是不是林副主委的负责业务也是吗"},{"start":8952.197,"end":8955.179,"text":"陳副主委在3月17號的時候我有來問過主委就是關於原住民一直希望能夠成立所謂的獨立學問"},{"start":8975.27,"end":8994.836,"text":"但是當時呢告訴我們說並沒有如我四年前質詢回應我的並沒有朝那個方向發展那倒是告訴我說已經有放在三個次領域就是法律、經濟、社會所以我在這邊我還是不斷地要講一下為什麼"},{"start":8996.291,"end":9008.56,"text":"因為我們都很清楚學門呢當然它有很多的次領域可是我上次舉的例子就是說現在有越來越多他們都有成立所謂的排灣學研討會盧凱學研討會阿美學研討會"},{"start":9012.623,"end":9031.901,"text":"那各族的學者都很積極的推動這件事可是問題是他不管叫原住民學還是排灣學他其實他的次領域很多啊有歷史啊有文學啊有法律啊有土地啊有心理啊其實他"},{"start":9032.561,"end":9049.41,"text":"其實也是很需要很多的次領域來成為一個學門所以我看到其實國科會長期以來有一個族群研究與原住民族的研究計畫那最近就是4月10號有開過這一場會議那這個會議呢"},{"start":9054.153,"end":9060.759,"text":"我辦公室也有去參加那參加了之後發現說這個會議蠻好的為什麼因為就是專門這個會議的目的就是為了要提供政府部門做政策參考"},{"start":9070.387,"end":9098.843,"text":"所以呢 那一天的會議也有去針對明年度這個族群研究與原住民族研究做一個公告它有分幾個議題知識層面 政治層面 法律層面經濟層面 環境層面社會層面 文化層面還有當代的這些像維旗式議題等等我覺得非常的好但是呢 很可惜為什麼因為 請教一下那一天有邀原民會跟客委會"},{"start":9100.469,"end":9127.49,"text":"但是原民會有沒有出席有有嗎他有提供資料他提供資料但是當天並沒有與會對不對對好那第二個可惜我就不了解說為什麼只要原民會跟客委會我猜想應該是我們的會議名稱叫族群研究與原住民族研究所以就覺得那就是客委會跟原民會"},{"start":9128.351,"end":9148.08,"text":"但是我覺得很可惜的原因是不是這樣啊這個對於提供我們的政策參考其實沒有辦法達成目的我光是舉一個例子來講我們特別來看一下像是如果說我要談所謂的一個現在最熱門的淨零碳會的問題好了"},{"start":9151.161,"end":9175.193,"text":"如果我們在部會的權責 環境部是負責方法學 農業部森林經營那金管會是探權的交易 國發會有公正轉型但是呢 涉及到我們知識領域的時候你看原住民他有地形地貌的問題 自然主權的問題他會衍生地理學 法律學 農業學 經濟學 畜牧學 管理學很多很多很多 到最後的產業轉型"},{"start":9176.932,"end":9205.371,"text":"所以他並不是我們找 原民會找 客委會來就可以去解決就可以提供政策的一個指引參考是沒有辦法的所以這個是舉一個例子所以我就特別希望說我們是不是可以至少先做幾件事情第一件事情就是我看到我們國科會有在出有一個叫東亞科技與社會研究國際期刊"},{"start":9207.372,"end":9235.949,"text":"沒有錯吧這期刊是你們出的吧那我就不懂了那請問如果說這種關於原住民族或南島語族研究的期刊有沒有可能發行期刊的發行要先要看他的這個整個需求跟規模還有整個那個學術社群這邊的一個那我現在說非常多的學者希望能夠從期刊來著手"},{"start":9238.17,"end":9260.086,"text":"來廣納各學門,這樣可以嗎?跟委員報告,就是說國內期刊的一個出版其實我們是鼓勵學術的團體來做這樣的事情,我們也有那你們會協助嗎?對,我們有補助相關的學術團體可以來發展出版學術期刊那請問東亞科技與社會研究期刊是怎麼來的?"},{"start":9262.448,"end":9272.554,"text":"因為有點久 它是屬於國際型的一個期刊是 那你們有沒有朝這個方向規劃目前是沒有去那我就是要這樣子請你們來規劃可以嗎因為我不斷 我追這個其實我已經問五年了"},{"start":9279.357,"end":9300.882,"text":"我希望能夠慢慢的帶動我們朝這個樣的學術方向去那你們先來做規劃可以嗎是不是容許我們就是再盤點一下研究一下好那就是朝這個方向規劃因為我們覺得知識的建構最忌諱就是閉門造句我剛剛有講了就是我們要研究一個主題"},{"start":9302.142,"end":9320.789,"text":"高山農業淨林攤會或者是疫情災難社會復原力甚至是我們的公共工程銀行金融我不斷地講其實公共工程每一次我們都會要求說可不可以詢問尊重接納在地的意見"},{"start":9322.301,"end":9343.106,"text":"我光是舉那個好查幾十年前原住民是死也不要遷到政府規定的那個地方就知道不行莫拉克風災果不其然全村淹沒那每一次做的公共工程在地都有很多意見建議我們的工程單位這樣做那樣做但是呢都是聽聽而已"},{"start":9344.423,"end":9369.361,"text":"所以我覺得我們現在應該要正視這個問題很多的液體的研究特別是在原鄉地區我覺得它是需要非常多的領域共同來支撐所以我們也很希望要來培立專題研究團隊讓這些跨學科年輕的研究者在地的知識實踐者能夠共同組一個研究團隊國科會可以支持嗎 副主委"},{"start":9372.113,"end":9399.849,"text":"那個基本上我們在整合型計畫的政案的部分我們可以考慮成立一個跟原住民相關就是委員所提到這些內容我們可以去規劃一個專案但是基本上專案規劃出來之後還是要看投進來的這些計畫因為這是PREVIEW嘛他們的計畫是不是有足夠的創新性但是我們會朝這個方向去規劃至少他如果是串聯化學科甚至是在地知識實踐者你們到時候如果計畫"},{"start":9401.25,"end":9429.583,"text":"夠好你們是OK的嗎是是是好那我就是希望說兩個訴求啦一我希望期刊的規劃那另外一個就是像這種跨部會的一個培立專體研究團隊那我希望呢兩個禮拜內可以給我一個報告可以嗎可不可以一個月因為還要回去跟主委報告看要怎麼處理好可以喔好謝謝副主委謝謝主長謝謝主席好謝謝吳立華委員副主委請回我們接下來請林沛翔委員"},{"start":9437.864,"end":9459.591,"text":"好謝謝主席有請林副主委林副主委請林委員好副主委好針對這份報告裡面其實我是認為說太空產業的發展在台灣是有其的必要性但是這份報告裡面我覺得有這五大項裡面有兩大項我覺得我想有些疑問想就教我們的副主委"},{"start":9460.211,"end":9473.661,"text":"第一個就是有關低軌通訊衛星的案子也就是說我的第一個疑問是說我們是不是已經在重複投資在一個國際上面其實已經有完整生態系而且競爭非常激烈的產業呢"},{"start":9476.167,"end":9504.706,"text":"為什麼這樣說 我們都知道STARLINK甚至後面有STARSHALE這是在SpaceX 就是馬斯克的一個大企劃裡面下來的而STARLINK也能夠講起來它的COVERAGE它整個廣泛的範圍已經到全球基本上它可以提供全球大眾大家上網的能力也就是說STARLINK的COVERAGE已經到全球的時候我們台灣也是其中之一只是看它開不開放那另外一方面ONEWEB"},{"start":9505.889,"end":9534.368,"text":"英國的OneWeb也是另外一個他們提供的服務也相當成熟而我們台灣現在說在短期之間我們要對於這個六個通訊衛星的本體來做製造來去掌握關鍵的籌載技術然後甚至火箭的發射能力還有稀缺的所謂的frequency也就是所謂的頻譜上資源的分配我們要從這邊獲得競爭優勢老實講我覺得個人覺得蠻困難的啦尤其說我們現在只是部署六顆"},{"start":9535.909,"end":9561.786,"text":"實驗性的衛星然後我們培養兩家系統整合商然後我們在沒有明確的應用市場國際之間我們並沒有明確的應用市場也沒有本土的需求支持之下我們花這一筆錢下去讓廠商練練兵 累積經驗那是不是這個無法轉成實質上的產業價值呢我想請問副主委謝謝委員那基本上來講我們在推動低軌道衛星的時候的確有考慮到委員所講的但是委員也知道台灣在半導體"},{"start":9562.646,"end":9578.516,"text":"還有一些製造業其實是非常強的尤其是ICT的產業其實我們是打算讓台灣變成未來變成一個衛星的ODM的產業也就是說我們具有設計跟製造的能力能夠打入國際在低軌道衛星的產業鏈"},{"start":9579.677,"end":9599.199,"text":"那為什麼呢 因為其實低軌道衛星它的壽命很短大概就五到十年 大概就要整批換官所以台灣現在利用我們既有的產業的優勢是在這個低軌道衛星的發展 我們未來是會具有相當的優勢所以我們的策略是這個樣子你剛剛講到這一點 因為我們在報告裡面看到你們現在是停留在所謂的技術驗證平台"},{"start":9601.261,"end":9616.094,"text":"並沒有說主動說跟聯發科跟鴻海這些指標性大廠做出整合性的深度的整合而且更現實的是說你們要用在哪裡你們要用什麼因為老實講應用有很多不同方面"},{"start":9617.676,"end":9635.488,"text":"太空知識的太空產業的這個衛星的運用有很多方面你們要focus在哪一塊你不能只是說單單純純說OK今天我要發展衛星我要做低軌道衛星但是針對哪一個方面的應用你們並沒有講得很清楚就是說因為台灣有鴻海因為台灣有聯發科所以我們就要發展出來"},{"start":9636.989,"end":9640.091,"text":"其實我想低軌道通訊衛星的籌載這個全世界現在還在激勵發展我想美國是最領先的我想根據台灣過去發展ICT跟半導體"},{"start":9656.301,"end":9676.71,"text":"這一個產業的經驗台灣其實扮演一個很重要的ODM台灣有非常完整的ODM的生態系其實我們的著眼點就是想要往這個方向所以我們要很多驗證的平台來達到這樣然後可以打入全世界整個太空產業的生態鏈我想這是我們最重要要做的事情"},{"start":9677.15,"end":9704.333,"text":"那講到生態鏈 講到太空產業的話那我想請問一下有沒有具體的建設計畫跟時間表歐盟有所謂的戈巴尼計畫所謂叫這個 Copernicus Program那台灣是不是也有相似的東西用多顆的低軌衛星所組成的星座來確保覆蓋範圍跟通信任性呢有沒有目前有這樣的計畫這是從直接應用的角度因為要維持一個台灣如果24小時不斷"},{"start":9705.615,"end":9720.255,"text":"這個大概要一百到兩百顆左右台灣這個我想在資源上但是基本上的這一個低軌道通訊衛星的籌載的技術不好意思 這就是我要提的台灣單獨要去做出這樣的大型計畫其實很困難沒有 沒有"},{"start":9720.876,"end":9744.231,"text":"真的非常困難我想這件事情我們必須務實的來看到這個投入這個成本在我們應用的方向不明確之前投資的成本巨大的時候讓我們現在其實如果比較務實一點是否應該直接跟日本跟澳洲甚至美國來去直接做資源共享來提升技術來去說真正務實的強化所謂的合作戰略關係呢"},{"start":9746.292,"end":9753.981,"text":"因為說真的我們現在為了要發衛星所以我們變成一筆錢我們發上去之後我們不知道幹嘛用我們只是想說試試看因為我們的ICT夠強"},{"start":9758.225,"end":9779.401,"text":"各位我們錢不能這樣亂花吧那我們總是說好把它拉回來如果你要做衛星產業你要做低軌衛星產業至少應用模式你要給地方的知道啊那你這個最後面如果說你現在完全沒有這方面的計畫譬如說我是基隆的委員我是基隆的立委那是不是衛星的未來查到東西可以跟基隆的海洋產業做配合"},{"start":9780.021,"end":9805.701,"text":"那這邊有屏東的立委是在屏東沒有做那屏東是不是那邊的聚落是不是能做得起來現在我們製造所有太空的東西不是在中央大學就在中央研究院然後你現在說慢慢把東西放到屏東去那邊的整個產業鏈夠嗎不是說什麼地方我們看到美國Houston可以這樣成功我們把東西丟過去我們就可以成功我不知道林副主委認不認同我這樣的想法有沒有經過考慮說這是要製造一個園區"},{"start":9807.805,"end":9820.147,"text":"而且這是一個資金密集的園區美國NASA是說真的STARLINK是因為是私人去做所以他們有效率美國NASA其實當年是被人家稱為最沒有效率的機構之一"},{"start":9822.106,"end":9843.794,"text":"火箭幾十牛長得一樣直到馬斯克出來那我們是不是再重新再走一次當初NASA走過的錯路呢請教林副主委我們在未來在這個屏東科技園區裡面會有一個太空的專區然後會把一些相關的產業會往那邊聚集那在這個未來應用的部分我請吳主任"},{"start":9845.519,"end":9873.514,"text":"其實我剛可能我再講一下就是有關於這個低軌通訊衛星我們現在是在著眼在整個技術系統的發展然後達到整個我們有辦法做系統設計跟製造能力我們這樣然後經過飛勢我們拿到飛行履歷才有辦法打入全世界的太空產業的供應鏈我舉個例子從前年到去年我們在衛星製造部已經有八十幾億"},{"start":9874.434,"end":9900.384,"text":"跳成兩倍在去年已經達到一百七十幾億從這個趨勢就看出來台灣逐漸在成為全世界很重要的衛星的製造產業裡面的一環我們要更進一步提升大概都是OEM我們想把它提升到ODM就像台灣現在的網通事業一樣可以就是你給我系統規格我有辦法把你設計跟製造出來我想這是台灣台灣的國家不是很大我們沒辦法"},{"start":9901.684,"end":9917.831,"text":"單獨 可能很難自己單獨維持一個很大的星鏈但是國家的需求我們的策略除了剛剛一直在我們其實是Mati Orbit各位可以看到中華電信他們今年底有跟美國購買一顆同步衛星它今年底就會發射"},{"start":9919.311,"end":9944.472,"text":"所以我們的佈局 整個台灣國家的佈局是除了高軌還有低軌 中軌像這個蘇化部也有SES所以我們整個應用的需求會先去照顧但是我們同時平行的我們國內產業的技術發展未來太空產業非常重要把它拉進到全世界的整個太空產業的一環這是我們的策略跟目標"},{"start":9944.952,"end":9961.946,"text":"我必須在這邊還是提醒國科會在發展這個在這些衛星計畫裡面尤其是低軌通信衛星計畫裡面要真的注重到地方產業是否也有需求因為你現在講了一堆說我們就是要做像國外做我們跟全世界要競爭我們有競爭優勢可是不見得我們一定會贏"},{"start":9964.133,"end":9990.052,"text":"這樣講好像說我們只要製造出來ODM製造出來我們就一定會營養It's not gonna be that easy可是如果比較務實一點除了這個之外我們的低軌通訊衛星我一直在強調低軌通訊衛星這一塊因為它實際上可以跟海洋產業不管是漁業也好很多地方是可以連結起來的那這邊的Data會是未來大數據計算甚至就去所謂的去觀察漁群去設計很多不同的像海上上面的這些"},{"start":9990.993,"end":10010.614,"text":"有價值的資源開發的時候可以用的所以這一點我想說請國會會如果在低軌通信衛星上面這邊來講特別要注意這樣能夠持之上扶植到地方跟我們國內的產業是是謝謝是謝謝委員好謝謝林沛翔委員副主委請回接下來請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":10023.343,"end":10051.13,"text":"主席 在黨委員先進列席了政府局長 官員會長 觀眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請林副主委以及太空中心的吳主任好 林副主委還有吳主任請總委員好副主委好 吳主任好謝謝昭偉安排這個議程他剛剛就預告了他知道排這個議程我一定會來請教不完全是因為我們未來的這個發射廠會是在屏東而是說整個太空計畫對我們台灣各項的需求非常的重要"},{"start":10051.61,"end":10069.476,"text":"那我今天呢就專門要來請教SAR可能就是先請教我們吳主任其實呢在去兩年前我就問過我們第三期的太空計畫有兩顆SAR的衛星福衛九號對不對它是要跟我們的光學的影像呢跟SAR影像的結合那請問這兩顆什麼時候上空"},{"start":10071.497,"end":10082.969,"text":"根據我們現在的規劃是在第一顆2028 第二顆2030好 2028最快好 但是在我們自己的SAR的投載衛星上去之前我們國內要怎麼樣取得SAR的服務"},{"start":10083.649,"end":10104.33,"text":"我想大部分就是透過商業購買好沒有錯我們看下一頁其實我們都知道這個合成拱鏡雷達它作為海洋監測可以大範圍的國土安全的管理包括廢棄土的監測還有氣候變遷等等事實上我在兩年前問的時候就問SARS的技術需求但是我最近看到一個新的下一頁"},{"start":10105.251,"end":10120.991,"text":"就是說有一個叫做ISAR就是目前台灣的海軍要求垂直起降的無人機要搭載逆合成孔徑雷達請問一下主任這個ISAR跟SAR它的主要用途功能是什麼樣的差別"},{"start":10121.311,"end":10148.562,"text":"我想一般的這個SAR像衛星在上面飛,地面的東西它因為它很快,它速度很快,所以它幾乎是地面觀察是幾乎靜止然後ISAR主要是可以很精準的去拍攝到在動態的,對所以我們的低軌衛星的SAR,它看到的是一個靜態的狀況但是如果是有其他的用途,譬如說我們對於海面的船艦我們可能就要用一個ISAR的方式來偵測,是這樣嗎?"},{"start":10150.003,"end":10164.439,"text":"那這兩個的籌載呢它其實有不一樣的規格用戶也不同那我想請教一下再往下看那目前我們SAR呢大概有這樣的意義無空間限制啦目前我們海巡署呢就用一個這個定義無人機已經在部署了"},{"start":10164.94,"end":10184.965,"text":"另外呢我們對於國土監測有定點監控還有用無人機用光學攝影的無人機那請教一下您認為我們國科會或太空中心的立場或以國科立場副主委有沒有可能我們可以來支援以SARS的技術來支援我們其他的國土偵測的需求這個基本上技術上是有可能的副主委願不願意支持"},{"start":10186.693,"end":10190.717,"text":"這個一定要支持好 那我們往下看那事實上我們現在發現一個問題最近我們看到了中國把它的MMSI將我國的海巡艦這應該是應該"},{"start":10199.246,"end":10219.241,"text":"海巡艦的巴里艦啊它故意的把它標示在福建的港口那事實上對於這樣的一個自主的一種標示服務呢它其實是沒有很難去防止偽造但是如果有SAR的話其實我們隨時可以掌握這些海面上艦艇的所在不知道吳主任同不同意這樣的一個科技能力"},{"start":10220.419,"end":10247.075,"text":"當然當然當然是可以好但是在我們自己的服務費9號上空之前除了我們跟國際上購買商用的SAR的服務之外有沒有可能我們現在就像海軍他自己籌建用ISAR有沒有可能我們國科會可以協助包括我們的海委會海巡署還有我們的林保署這些對於國土監測防護有需要的單位有沒有可能我們來協助他們我想在一些技術諮詢我們當然是可以技術諮詢好舉例來講"},{"start":10248.905,"end":10271.128,"text":"最近其實早在兩年前也有中國橡皮艇從我們的北部沿海偷偷的上來那問一下軍方或海巡單位橡皮艇跟波浪的反射波按上雷達根本看不出來因為它太小了而且有波浪所以很容易就偷渡上岸但是用SAR有沒有可能來有效的判別呢"},{"start":10272.348,"end":10293.059,"text":"如果我們的數目夠多,天上是有可能的。您說數量夠多是指什麼意思?衛星的數量夠多。衛星,那有沒有可能不要用到衛星,可能用到其他的長滯空時間航程久,譬如說可以滯空12個小時以上的定義的無人機,那繼續在我們的上空巡邏。"},{"start":10294.8,"end":10322.897,"text":"顧好我們周邊的海域因為這個不是太空中心的業務對我是請教你啦延伸請教如果就我的個人了解齁其實台灣民間已經有一定的技術它可以將這個有人的飛機改成無人機它的滯空時間可以十幾個小時所以基本上如果有這樣的無人機你搭配一些SAR或光學再飛在三四千公尺高其實它可以大面積而且是autopilot我想是可以達到非常好的效果"},{"start":10323.217,"end":10338.733,"text":"所以這樣的技術用包括單螺旋槳雙人座的一般的小飛機民用航空器或者把它改成自動化無人化也就可以來擔任這樣的任務了那這樣估計大概台灣只要同一個時間有六架大概周邊的海域就顧得很腳穩了嘛"},{"start":10339.393,"end":10355.047,"text":"我認為是這樣 如果台灣可以做個20架因為20架在成本效益上是可以開模所以它製造成本是夠然後你同時有5架到6架autopilot我想是可以在一些重要的地點達到非常快的功效而且這個速度非常快好 謝謝"},{"start":10356.568,"end":10361.272,"text":"感謝吳主任這麼詳細願意不嘗試也謝謝我們我希望國科會未來在行政院當中對國防部或海委會可以多提供這樣我們在科技上的研發能力來協助他們好不好最後我們來看一下其實我在兩年前的6月18號就因為橡皮艇事件我就有提過說海巡署透過雷達它很難看斷但是透過無人載具有的是去拒止有的是去監控"},{"start":10379.508,"end":10398.457,"text":"但是監控呢如果有SARS的話呢它就有辦法來增強我們的國土徵收能力所以今天我就最後呢先展示太空中心的還有我們國科會的報告但是我希望說針對目前我們國土監測國土安全防衛的需求我們希望除了科研的任務之外國科會應該將你們這樣的技術將SARS這樣的籌載能夠"},{"start":10402.839,"end":10427.564,"text":"讓它能夠與時俱進或者說提供各種的籌載類型譬如說你們現在SAR是放在衛星上的衛星上大概多重 多大一個這樣的SARSAR在我們衛星上 福衛九號的SAR大概這個籌載是多重大概七八十公斤如果包括用飛手會加起來超過一百公斤那如果是七八十公斤用大概籌載兩百公斤的無人載具無人航空機是可以做得到的"},{"start":10428.171,"end":10447.803,"text":"我剛剛是口誤大概100多公斤,因為它是主動式,跟它的power都有關,它如果要飛機飛,它是需要再做改造或者reduce它的model我們都知道因為在非常高的低軌衛星,通訊衛星它才500公里,那你們目前要讓那兩個福衛9號才達到多少公里高?"},{"start":10449.218,"end":10468.653,"text":"五百多公里對沒錯就是五百多公里大概五百多公里嘛但是我們一般的大概監控型的大概都不會在五公里之內那五公里之內的SAR它的這個籌載是不是可以用無人機來承載拜託我們國科會能不能請副主委回去跟主委報告之後我們在這個技術上來支援我們相關的海委會跟國防部好嗎"},{"start":10469.983,"end":10485.713,"text":"那個跟委員說明就是你的建議很好但我要跟委員說明一下其實一般的巷尾陣列雷達其實在岸上跟船艦也相當的成熟所以未來可以用巷尾陣列雷達跟SAR一起做配合一起配合啦對對對沒錯沒錯好謝謝謝謝兩位謝謝主委好謝謝鍾嘉斌委員副主委請回我們接下來請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在我們請黃國昌委員"},{"start":10504.8,"end":10530.191,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請副主委好 有請林副主委黃委員長副主委好 這個案子因為當地有民眾來跟我澄清檢舉所以我這一段時間 我現在先帶你進入狀況2024年8月的時候 我們在陽明山裝一個太陽能電板"},{"start":10531.468,"end":10555.181,"text":"下面有鋰電池空瓶感測器這是2024年8月的時候發生自然的事件副主委你看一下那個照片看了是有一點觸目驚心我現在第一個問題是說在2024年8月發生這件事情以後我們做了什麼事"},{"start":10556.061,"end":10585.601,"text":"好 跟委員報告我們基本上會已經有盤點所有的監測裡面只要是用鋰電池我們通常把它換掉換成磷酸鋰鐵甚至外面會加...沒關係 我們一樣一樣啦因為你講話講得太抽象了我很具體的問在2024年8月因為這個是現場的照片嘛我不知道副主委有沒有看過啦但我可以跟你確定這個是當初自然的時候現場的照片嚇壞一堆人啦自己就燒起來了嘛"},{"start":10586.241,"end":10607.093,"text":"那我的問題是2024年8月以後做了什麼事我們就是把把那個鋰電池都換成磷酸鋰鐵什麼時候換的應該都是都已經全部都換完了對我說2024年8月以後發生了這件事情你們做了什麼事你告訴我說把電池都換了嘛那我請教你什麼時候換的我的問題沒有這麼困難吧"},{"start":10614.675,"end":10634.585,"text":"因為它牽涉到國政中心也有牽涉到國網中心所以基本上換應該是最近都是這幾個月把它換完的為什麼是最近這幾個月才開始做這不是去年八月的事嗎為什麼 這個是我的問題"},{"start":10642.058,"end":10660.331,"text":"那個他可能要盤點然後再要重新訂製因為他能夠鑽的那個面積都很小我直接切入重點跟副主委講啦你現在在台上突然想出的這些理由都不是理由請你們回去整理好"},{"start":10661.451,"end":10686.846,"text":"去年八月發生了這個事情以後每一個時間點你們做了什麼事情用書面回覆我可以嗎好我為什麼說你剛剛在台上我想副主委可能業務繁多啦這件事情未必掌握得那麼清楚那沒有辦法回應我的問題所以在台上想辦法回應也辛苦你了但是我質詢向來是有point的"},{"start":10687.888,"end":10716.765,"text":"為什麼我一直在問2024年8月發生這個事情的時候你們做了什麼事情因為今年4月的時候又發生一次陽明山火燒山 燃燒50公頃燃燒50公頃今年4月我接到這個澄清跟檢舉的時候大家沒有辦法理解事情是去年8月燒了一次喔什麼事都沒做"},{"start":10718.462,"end":10735.321,"text":"搞到今年四月再燒一次燒了五十公頃你所謂的更換我相信一定是燒了這五十公頃以後才開始換的對不對是我的問題就來了當發生問題"},{"start":10740.165,"end":10765.381,"text":"你不面對問題解決問題這就是後果贊不贊成贊成我希望國科會痛定思痛痛定思痛去年發生了問題不願意面對問題解決問題搞到今年四月陽明山火燒山延燒五十公頃"},{"start":10766.872,"end":10786.528,"text":"到目前為止 事故調查報告出來沒有目前的調查報告是消防那邊是寫電器原因對 但問題是 你們不覺得這東西很危險嗎"},{"start":10788.075,"end":10809.945,"text":"是很危險的你們找廠商跟你們合作就裝了一個這個東西如果你們到現在喔還不知道真正的噪音是什麼的話就是CAUSE啦你如果真的不知道CAUSE是什麼的話那代表了這像是一個不定時的炸彈一樣非常的危險好 那下一個問題"},{"start":10811.997,"end":10824.085,"text":"如果你連實際的事故原因它的噪音是什麼都沒有辦法發生的話都沒有辦法確定的話那我就擔心一件事情了你們為什麼覺得換了電池就會沒事"},{"start":10826.311,"end":10855.122,"text":"那個跟委員報告我們確定是李三元電池自燃所以才我剛剛跟委員報告所以是產品有瑕疵嗎不是那個電池他放了太久了他沒有去把它換掉那個是我們內部管理的問題所以從去你指教的很好去年8月其實是我們在內部的管理有問題所以4月之後呢主委已經已經要求我們國營院各單位這個自我的這些檢查的SOP必須要把它做出來我再問一下現在啊"},{"start":10856.209,"end":10880.731,"text":"一樣的東西還有幾支目前國網的都沒有了全部都沒了國網都沒有 對出問題的是國網的那個是沒有的因為其實那個計畫是民生公共物聯網最後一個問題誰要賠我們的責任我們的責任我們就會負責到底對 這個我知道啦如果是你們責任當然要負責到底我的問題很具體誰要賠是國家賠還是廠商賠"},{"start":10884.059,"end":10895.126,"text":"不是啦 如果國家要賠整件事情那我就覺得很荒謬啊拿國科會的錢去賠陽明山國家公園管理處這不是很好笑嗎拿納稅人的錢去賠納稅人的損失誰要賠這個部分說明一下這個部分我們有跟廠商協調這個分配的這個比例賠償比例是多少目前原則上對我們已經有初步的協商結果啦"},{"start":10914.505,"end":10929.591,"text":"會後書面給我好不好好OK沒問題好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員副主委請回接下來請林德福委員林德福林德福委員不在我們請徐富奎委員謝謝主席有請國科會林副主委太空中心吳主任好有請林副主委吳主任"},{"start":10945.547,"end":10971.441,"text":"委員長副主委 主任 午安我想我們非常感謝國科會選擇屏東作為台灣首座的國家級的太空發射場我想這個包含從我們屏東縣政府我們州縣長還有我還有我們各級民代包含我們所有滿州的鄉親都是以這個一個期待的心情來迎接這樣的一個地方的一個發展的一個喜事那這個對屏東來講"},{"start":10972.682,"end":10988.352,"text":"也是一個這個具有指標的意義我們屏東縣不再被定位成農業縣而是一個包含一二三級產業群方位發展的一個城市但是作為屏東縣的這個立法委員我想我們還是要提出地方的幾個期待"},{"start":10988.792,"end":11009.772,"text":"跟幾個這個擔憂的地方我想這部分還是請副主委跟主任這邊能夠來說明一下那我想目前我們大家最關心的就是我們整個發射場的一個期程請教副主委跟主任這部分我們大概目前的規劃進度是到哪裡那個細節我請吳主任說明一下委員長我想"},{"start":11012.422,"end":11024.749,"text":"入軌火箭我們是在2031年會掌握所有的技術會有兩階的次軌道次軌道就是說可以飛到那個高度但是能量還不足但是我們希望在2034可以乘載200公斤的衛星進入軌道"},{"start":11028.591,"end":11051.442,"text":"200公斤那我們目前TASA在研發這個入軌火箭這個大概目前期程是進入到哪裡我們是會一切有照期程未來是用液態引擎的火箭我想這個是未來是可以搭載1000公斤以上然後甚至可以做一個共生共榮的一個太空的一個科技產業"},{"start":11052.122,"end":11065.406,"text":"就是這個國家發射場它的量體的設計是可以1000公斤以上的頭載就是比較大的火箭但是我們在2034我們預定的是大概可以承載200公斤200公斤就分階段來做處理"},{"start":11068.307,"end":11085.953,"text":"那我想我們國科會在這個上一次的簡報裡面有特別提到未來我們針對太空科普還有科技教育跟這個文化設施部分每年可以吸引六萬人次到訪那我想這個當然帶動了整個旅宿也好交通也好還有地方創生"},{"start":11086.853,"end":11096.222,"text":"這對地方絕對是一個很好的事大家都樂觀其成那所以目前我們估出來的這個關聯的這個營建期間的產值有161億然後營運期間有479億副主委這個目標對嗎"},{"start":11104.325,"end":11128.12,"text":"我請吳主任這個是透過我們專業的顧問公司算出來像國家發生廠大概預定是要90億左右所以還有將未來的一些我想包括一些有可能的太空博物館等等這些整整還有我想當地的一些道路整修"},{"start":11128.74,"end":11151.362,"text":"所以未來還是應該還是要跟我們這個地方政府包含地方的這個生態旅遊我們的鄉鎮公所包含地方的這個部落的生態教育應該是整個要做一個結合我想這個才是應該共存共榮的一個目標跟委員報告其實從藍田到阿朗伊到旭海到酒棚其實台灣最美的地方"},{"start":11151.983,"end":11168.373,"text":"所以由這個發射場域的建置然後如何結合這些科普例如太空博物館 太空科學館然後整體的帶動地方的發展是我們這次主要的目標所以我們是一個帶狀的一個發展嗎不是只有一個定點式的不是 是一個帶狀的發展"},{"start":11169.414,"end":11188.728,"text":"好那所以我想最後我想我們開發一定會考慮到環保的問題是那所以我想這也是我們在地鄉親擔心跟憂慮也是關心的那我想站在政府的角度我想這部分我們應該會做一個最好的一個規劃啦那副主委我們目前基地的部分有沒有涉及到土地徵收的問題有徵收的問題"},{"start":11195.748,"end":11222.918,"text":"我們是用協議架構那目前已經有在左手跟鄉親在做溝通了嗎是 8月會開那個公聽會那當然未來這個在這個太空場域發射的時候勢必也必須要做一個交通相關一個環境的一個管制那甚至未來對於這個相關這些的這個環境的影響的部分我們對於地方的一個補償條款什麼時候會訂定出來"},{"start":11229.489,"end":11246.595,"text":"現在在規劃跟溝通之中我們知道當時有說明我們一定會遵守這樣的原則來處理但是我想百姓對於這個生活一旦受到這個生計的影響的時候我們應該也要比照國軍的敦親慕你的一個方式來給予我們事實的一個補償"},{"start":11248.115,"end":11274.173,"text":"那至於說後續我們還是持續關注對於農業自然生態跟相關一個施力的影響我想屏東我們樂見這個高科技產業落腳在地方我們希望這個案子能夠帶動屏東的轉型就業教育跟生活的一個里程碑我想未來只要任何跟這個屏東發射廠有相關的一個重要決策我想請副主委跟主任在這邊也要承諾未來一定"},{"start":11274.773,"end":11296.034,"text":"配合我們的屏東縣政府滿洲鄉公所還有我們當地的民意代表大家要好好來討論我們要往正向的方向來推動這應該是目標不變啦是是我們跟那個屏東縣政府還有鄉公所都有密切的聯繫對我想這個是我們大家人也是更換我們共同搭一個平台把這個事情把它做好然後帶動地方的觀光發展好謝謝大家周圍來拍片謝謝"},{"start":11299.916,"end":11313.145,"text":"好 謝謝徐富魁委員 副主委請回接下來請蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳委員不在最後請柯智恩委員謝謝各位我們現在是不是請副主委 謝謝好 有請林副主委"},{"start":11327.503,"end":11349.32,"text":"副主委好我想最後一個發言應該是有非常多人有一些的問題我想我們就綜合一下因為我們蔡政府她的確有特別提到從2019年通過第三期之後她估計10年要發射10顆的衛星那時候她都有宣示未來10年台灣每年都要發射一顆衛星請問主委2019到現在第三期計劃的10顆衛星總共發射幾顆"},{"start":11360.457,"end":11367.746,"text":"十年之内我们这十颗卫星成如我们蔡总统所希望的我们到底现在目前为止发射的几颗"},{"start":11370.775,"end":11391.554,"text":"目前基本上福氣算嗎委員我可不可以回答可以可以可以委員早根據原來的三期計劃是2023就是兩年前對因為我想中間有發生過這COVID-19的事情沒錯很多原物料所以說蔡總統的這個當初所提問的現在是完全是跳票的"},{"start":11392.476,"end":11408.054,"text":"因為有一些不可抗力因素再加上我們福威八號中間有一度就是設計上有構改有我知道因為那時候第九屆的時候其實我們都有關切這個問題今年會第一顆十月會所以十年之內從2019我們現在目前為止才要發射第一顆就對了"},{"start":11411.838,"end":11437.946,"text":"因为就这些资料显示嘛你们除了这个B5G通讯实验这个研制之外有完成一些但是呢这些立方卫星只是服务8号9号的一个部分元件的一个建立的验证嘛所以距离可以正式发射根本就还是非常遥远的所以说我刚刚特别提到跳票但是你刚刚提到有非常多的缘故那如果说是10月才要发射第一颗的话那"},{"start":11438.746,"end":11446.238,"text":"主委你是不是可以幫忙掛保證這個幫賴總統掛保證每年都可以如期發射一顆衛星有沒有辦法"},{"start":11448.704,"end":11474.66,"text":"每一年發射一顆衛星有沒有辦法我們一定會盡量的照計劃的規劃去沒有啊你們現在計劃其實跟當初所做的計劃其實是落差蠻大的我說實在的所以你光是說你要照計劃可是計劃還是趕不上變化那最主要是你身為立法委員當然需要監督我們這樣的一個角色嘛那賴政府基本上希望把這個計劃拉到2031年那預算加碼要超過650億喔所以說呢"},{"start":11478.805,"end":11485.722,"text":"這個650億是確定的嗎那個我們已經6月13號已經送到行政院了所以是650億"},{"start":11488.329,"end":11509.943,"text":"我们送上去的时候是650亿啊是啊所以这就是我们所要提到的蔡总统时候你已经是跳票那我们现在只要任何能够帮助我们能够上去的卫星我们绝对的支持但是这个绩效跟你所需要花的钱我觉得这个还是有非常大的一个落差没错吧这还是有很大的一个落差所以说你看吧"},{"start":11510.563,"end":11522.961,"text":"你看像目前来说的话都还是没有顺利执行而且很多大幅的延宕那你现在不断的增加新的计划不断增加新的预算所以我们真的要问你太空中心真的做得来吗"},{"start":11525.004,"end":11551.502,"text":"那个跟委员报告就是会从400亿变成651其实有些新的任务这边包含了太空发射的场域等等那至于计划执行的部分我请吴主任那我还是要问一下执行到底出了什么问题还是你们原本的卫星产业的发展策略就出现了一个问题而且最重要是你国科会还跟民间的厂商来做一些合作要再研制四颗的低轨通讯卫星"},{"start":11552.102,"end":11571.974,"text":"那如果照這個規劃你應該在118年就要發射了那請問這四顆衛星的發射期程是否也會受到影響基本上跟這個沒有關係還是如期進行我跟委員報告一下剛剛已經特別強調過了會員檔是因為這個COVID-19這是沒辦法全世界都因為物料"},{"start":11572.794,"end":11594.372,"text":"還有缺工第二個是這個今年像這邊寫的火箭這個第一顆伏八十月這個還沒到因為大概是七月八月我們會舉行這個PSR沒關係十月我還在我們就來看看來解釋我們來解釋到時候真的已經等很久了然後明年的第二顆現在在我們的廠房裡面已經大概整個裝起來了如期在舉行"},{"start":11595.493,"end":11612.451,"text":"我只是要提醒我们要花六百五十亿你要让立法委员通过这样的一个预算的话你要拿出绩效来COVID已经距离一段时间了我们给予你们努力肯定但是我还是认为这个期程你真的不能差距太大否则让总统挂的保证给这么多钱这其实有点落场了好不好谢谢"},{"start":11613.712,"end":11630.098,"text":"那当然我们要看到这个有关于人才的培育嘛对不对你既然计划延宕了但是呢新的计划要不断进来那我们的人力到底充不充足我们先来解释一下嘛这是诚如我刚刚所提到嘛改制的行政法人预算越增越大缺二越来越多113年缺二16114年缺二48"},{"start":11632.839,"end":11651.786,"text":"而且呢這些都是來自研發單位的特別是研究人員技術人員兩年沒有補滿甚至連工程人員今年都出現大的缺口這麼有產業這麼棒的一個未來前瞻世界都要的人才我們為什麼你們都填不滿包括委員這邊這個數字可能有一點稍微"},{"start":11652.666,"end":11659.932,"text":"這是我根據你的數字給的 那就再給我一個新的數字好不好因為他去年入職 但是今年1月2日就報到但是你們人力的缺口還是有嘛 對不對我不管我這個數字 雖然我這個數字可能沒update但是這個數字上面 你們要給我一個正確的但是我還是要問喔 你看你現在分別開設的這個太空科技跟工程 還有太空科技微學程然後你跟姚明交大等等學校"},{"start":11678.606,"end":11706.502,"text":"那副主委你认为这样的量体够不够这样人才的量体够不够而且你们到底有没有掌握学生未来的毕业动向开了这么多的学程然后呢到底这些学生的毕业动向是不是是学用合一还是等等我觉得这个都跟我们当初所讨论的合共人才都是一样的而且呢我们有很多时候学者也提到了目前所新增的四间研究所各校是分工完全不明确所以你说让大家投入太空的系统科学"},{"start":11707.202,"end":11732.248,"text":"恐怕难以聚焦方向了必须要做出很多的差异化这些都是我们在检视人才培育当中其实遇到一个很大的一个盲点所以我觉得这都是要彼此要互相搭配来做这样处理的而且我最后一个那个召委最后真的30秒时间你看我们抛开这个时间学士四万五硕士五万七博士八万七后续再加上年资等等说实在的"},{"start":11732.708,"end":11758.317,"text":"要投入这么多的人力然后跟我们这个科学园区的薪资条件起来其实没有太大的优势而且说实在你们这个领域是蛮专业的所以你要这些学生这些人才的培育能够配合他们未来的职业的发展我觉得这里面甚至需要有非常多的嫁接非常多的沟通那这个部分可能需要你们来做一个处理好 最后十秒钟我还是为高雄请命我说实在的很多冰冻的马来人台南的马来人我告诉你高雄最重要了你看"},{"start":11761.798,"end":11766.72,"text":"每一個東西你調列出來說實在的哪一項不是全國第一螺絲工廠我們的鋼鐵工業等等之類可以摳入一下嗎給我們設在台南各鄉下是一個最好的地方報告委員其實我們現在跟高雄地區合作至少十家以上這樣喔對對對然後呢這個部分不是只有十家以上以後的太空中心應該設在這個地方啦"},{"start":11785.802,"end":11792.426,"text":"這是太空中心啦,這是產業發展,這開始這樣靠...這樣靠的時候真的是最務實的啦台南的專委在這裡,我也知道他在台南要檢處啦但是我認為,攤開數字擺過來產業的發展,我們鋁鋼經業的發展,各項開始想好了副主委,你同意吧?同意同意,這樣對啦,希望未來,太空中心給我們靠入一下,這才是想好的地方啦這樣可以了嗎?好啦,感謝啦,謝謝,專委"},{"start":11815.999,"end":11821.969,"text":"好 謝謝柯思恩委員副主任請回 主任請回我們今天登記"},{"start":11824.261,"end":11846.561,"text":"質詢委員均已發言完畢另外還有柯之恩委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議做如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面資料及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}