{"error":false,"id":["167632"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167632,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167632","日期":"2026-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-23-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-18T11:18:22+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-18T11:28:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60537aba01f5505e6af075f3d6415d2a29ea997b7b3c5b8577b375006cf0b37b233e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"11:18:22 - 11:28:23","會議時間":"2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長及國家科學及技術委員會主任委員就「落實臺灣AI治理與基礎建設，發展臺灣AI軟體產業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月18日及19日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":1.38096875,"end":3.7434687500000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":3.84471875,"end":4.73909375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":9.869093750000001,"end":10.45971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":11.10096875,"end":11.759093750000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":13.024718750000002,"end":16.43346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":16.78784375,"end":17.47971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":18.30659375,"end":18.82971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":19.30221875,"end":23.453468750000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":24.12846875,"end":42.28596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":42.79221875,"end":52.73159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":53.322218750000005,"end":55.27971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":55.650968750000004,"end":56.32596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":56.798468750000005,"end":82.98846875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":68.91471875,"end":69.25221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":83.29221875,"end":98.34471875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":99.17159375,"end":121.44659375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":121.61534375000001,"end":184.37346875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":184.77846875,"end":193.72221875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":194.39721875,"end":199.71284375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":199.71284375000002,"end":199.99971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":199.99971875,"end":200.97846875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":200.97846875000002,"end":278.83971875000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":266.72346875,"end":268.93409375000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":279.29534375000003,"end":288.01971875000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":288.30659375,"end":288.93096875000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":289.25159375000004,"end":289.55534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":290.02784375000005,"end":291.04034375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":291.05721875,"end":295.78221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":296.17034375000003,"end":313.02846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":313.19721875000005,"end":314.02409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":314.27721875000003,"end":319.32284375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":319.32284375,"end":326.14034375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":326.81534375,"end":347.70659375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":348.17909375000005,"end":348.60096875000005,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":348.73596875000004,"end":383.02596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":383.02596875,"end":440.40096875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":440.40096875,"end":440.48534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":440.89034375000006,"end":441.97034375000004,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":441.97034375000004,"end":452.24721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":452.87159375000005,"end":462.40596875000006,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":462.62534375,"end":465.86534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":466.97909375,"end":468.10971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":468.63284375,"end":487.02659375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":487.02659375,"end":487.92096875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":488.96721875000003,"end":503.85096875000005,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":503.00721875000005,"end":505.40346875000006,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":505.97721875,"end":506.24721875000006,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":506.39909375,"end":506.66909375000006,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":506.66909375000006,"end":506.80409375000005,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":506.80409375000005,"end":506.87159375000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":506.87159375000005,"end":506.92221875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":506.92221875,"end":507.25971875000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":507.25971875000005,"end":507.36096875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":507.36096875000004,"end":512.74409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":507.41159375,"end":507.54659375000006,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":507.54659375000006,"end":507.69846875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":507.69846875,"end":507.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":508.59284375000004,"end":508.67721875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":508.67721875,"end":508.71096875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林署長俊秀","start":508.71096875,"end":508.74471875000006,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":513.0478437500001,"end":527.6784687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":527.9484687500001,"end":541.3640937499999,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":541.85346875,"end":543.1528437500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":543.7265937500001,"end":545.61659375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":545.93721875,"end":546.86534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":547.16909375,"end":548.2322187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":548.5359687499999,"end":550.08846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":550.42596875,"end":564.85409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":563.7234687499999,"end":591.5672187499999,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":592.1072187500001,"end":593.03534375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":593.27159375,"end":594.1997187500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":596.3428437499999,"end":598.21596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"魯委員明哲","start":599.88659375,"end":601.3884687500001,"speaker_score":0.975}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.397,"end":4.524,"text":"好謝謝主席有請事務部林部長請林部長陸委員好部長好"},{"start":13.269,"end":41.849,"text":"直接進入主題因為現在這個事實上我們所有的民眾我想包括你我很多的都不去實體天面那現在都在這些網購平台它的量體是非常大的特別我們看了一下你們給我們的資料根據那個SimilarWeb它的統計在過去三個月平均每個月大概目前在台灣看到的一個"},{"start":43.53,"end":57.395,"text":"網購平台業 電商的一個平台業者排名的順序 全五名有列出來第一名Shopping 第二名Momo 第三名PC Home第四名伯克萊 第五名庫蓬還有以下的排名"},{"start":58.255,"end":81.697,"text":"那在這個前五名我們看到有很多國內的知名品牌那也有一些國外的像Shopee是新加坡然後這個Coupon是韓商所以他們但對民眾來講我說真的在哪裡找到我要的貨我才不管你是什麼樣的在你是這個國內的品牌還是國外的那個平台對不對那我想在這個這樣的一個"},{"start":83.399,"end":97.386,"text":"大家採購的一個那種習慣已經幾乎是已經九成已經完全改變了過來這時候我們資訊安全跟很多的詐騙在這些網購平台上面已經談了很多年了談了很多年從整個"},{"start":99.707,"end":113.333,"text":"購買的過程中 購買的流程不管是假包裹或是說用電商傳一個假訊息很多的釣魚的那種方式這個已經被談過很多次了那針對你們在數位部來講對於電商平台產生的詐騙整體來說有什麼樣的具體作為"},{"start":122.317,"end":135.959,"text":"首先我們要了解這個問題這個問題通常一開始是什麼是這個電商他裡面的個資遭到洩漏或者他是交易記錄遭到洩漏然後當這個通常會有一些這個不法集團把這些資料賣給一些詐騙集團"},{"start":137.02,"end":158.129,"text":"它現在分工市場蠻細的然後這些詐騙集團就會偽冒這些電商發簡訊或者是發email或什麼方式去通知那個使用者說你之前買了什麼什麼貨那現在發生了什麼事情叫你補錢或者怎麼樣因為這些資料還有這些會員資料如果是真實的話那使用者一般民眾就很容易上當"},{"start":158.989,"end":183.923,"text":"所以我們現在很重要的事情是要管到這個源頭它不能有各自的洩漏那像最近就是有幾樁的那個各自洩漏的問題就我們發現它這個問題是什麼出在人的問題其實不是它資訊的問題是它內部有內鬼像說最近那個韓國就發生了這種事情就後來發現是一個來自中國大陸的工程師他從內部就是把那些資料通通就是用"},{"start":184.884,"end":192.831,"text":"不法的方式去存取那我們這個地方我們事實上我們最重要就是遇到這個事情趕快揭露趕快去那個"},{"start":194.851,"end":221.899,"text":"趕快去通知這個民眾就是尤其這個資料遭到洩漏的民眾你一定要小心好部長其實我們在立法院當然經常是問我們政府單位能夠多做一點可是在這樣的一個平台業者加大越大我們本身平台業者他在不管是一堆的電商還有這麼多的一個消費者在中間他的一個治安責任應該是要相對的越來越大"},{"start":222.639,"end":248.814,"text":"是 沒錯那第二個是 事實上很多的一個平台業者對於電商的不管是上架費或者手續費啊這幾年也不斷的提升啊我說這個提升的過程肯定裡面也要有一個部分是自己要投資在治安吧對不對當然那我想你剛剛特別說了齁這個庫蓬頭去年11月他的一個個資外洩那我就覺得這個是有一點鞭長莫及的那種感覺齁"},{"start":249.895,"end":255.177,"text":"去年11月發生這樣一個事情新聞見報的時候看到蘇發蘇衛部有跟我們回報11月份就有去問酷朋台灣說這個只是韓國的帳號主要韓國的帳號12月再次你們都有去問算是有沒有盡你們的責任文字的承諾都會覺得還蠻無奈的第二次問他酷朋又跟你說沒有台灣的帳戶受影響這是你們說的"},{"start":279.364,"end":293.675,"text":"那一直到兩個月之後當然因為事件發生在韓國嘛資料庫在他那邊那後面他們第三方調查清楚了說不好意思都有影響到台灣大概有超過20萬個用戶的個資未經授權可以講被盜取"},{"start":299.159,"end":320.736,"text":"那現在到底面臨這樣的一個情況有兩個部分啦對於這個事件在台灣我們的個資20萬個個資這樣的一個外洩這樣的一個部分未來有什麼樣的處罰或是有什麼樣的一個責任第二個到底有什麼樣的一個改善的機制在數位部的角度跟業者能不能說明一下是 針對這個我們先講說我們現在處理的進度這個地方請問素產署的林署長說明"},{"start":327.223,"end":346.144,"text":"跟委員二要報告一下這個發生之後我們當然第一個要求他補漏洞第二個去做行政檢查那行政檢查我們把調查報告目前已經送到行政院那因為調查的結果還是要請那個當事人陳述嘛現在他正在陳述當中所以這個我們未來還是會在行政院那邊開會來進行報告"},{"start":348.146,"end":362.741,"text":"是是好那這個部分你們特別我在詢問的時候特別你們有一種感覺啦就整個資料庫在外商可能全部有點你要去查他的電腦資料庫可能都在國外是那我們剛剛看到第一名Shopee"},{"start":363.342,"end":385.724,"text":"可能他是不是也在新加坡這些資料庫那當然庫蓬在韓國那這樣的一個有一點這個鞭長莫及的一個感覺你們不是也是不是有提說在台灣的客戶希望他們能夠資料落地我們可以就近用資安的角度不管是協助他監督都在第一時間第一時間就能夠確認不知道有沒有這個方向安保"},{"start":386.584,"end":406.535,"text":"從監理的方向來講的話我們非常希望說所有這些公司他的資料能落地事實上我們最近都在講主權AI這個也是主權資料就是資料我們這樣才有管轄權但是因為台灣之前加入WTO的時候事實上是簽過一些協定那依照WTO的那些"},{"start":408.356,"end":431.994,"text":"那些協定就是各個國家不應該去要求那個國際的這些公司進行資料落地那當然我們知道說最近因為國際的局勢已經發生變化那美國川普政府對於說資料落地這件事情他們態度已經改變了所以這個地方我們正在努力的跟那個協調當中我們希望說在不違反就是說我們之前對"},{"start":432.974,"end":448.648,"text":"其他國家在WTO架構之下的承諾的狀況下看能不能做一些更好的監管好 今天最後一個問題還是延續性的我們事實上在我們的數位部在延續過去工業局有針對企業 企業資安檢測的一個服務這署長你來說一下好了"},{"start":453.492,"end":465.582,"text":"這個因為從107年到現在大概也七年了吧七八年了那這樣的年年我們看了一下大概都三四十家有這個檢測服務所以我想了解一下是"},{"start":467.008,"end":484.8,"text":"他主動報名是不是就是說他要參加不參加不是我們決定到底主動權是我們覺得哪一些風險高或者像這個比數高他影響的層面大我們去選還是你們自由報名參加因為你說明一下好不好你誰來參加我們這個企業資安檢測服務"},{"start":489.643,"end":517.032,"text":"當然就是各行各業嘛但是他們 我們這邊有一個篩選的院子能量還是有限嘛所以還是以所以是我們自己篩選對 因為有時候不是我們篩選有時候他也願意來報名因為他可能要配合一些學校我到底是怎麼回事啦我跟你講那個 委員來來來 部長我時間到了齁因為我的想法是這樣齁是如果你是自由報名院子的上鉤啊我也覺得那你們太辛苦了啦是為什麼"},{"start":518.132,"end":527.241,"text":"就是那種不重視治安的或者治安有可能那種觀念有問題或者他可能根本我根本不報名嘛第二個但是我的風險非常高我的客戶我的個資這麼多但是我還是不參加所以我是覺得我是不知道但我覺得經歷這樣的一個事情因為我看了你們連續的三年的"},{"start":542.354,"end":563.2,"text":"檢測的40家各40家100多家公司並沒有剛剛講的這5家1 2 3 4名都沒有所以我是覺得建議一下啦我不是說你們要去干擾誰啦那你抽測的部分對這種非常重要只要一旦個資洩漏影響非常大的這個我們要一定要有點主動"},{"start":564.981,"end":591.376,"text":"跟委員說明一下這個的確是我們努力的方向但是我們現在很努力的速發部要告訴所有這個民間企業說我們是來幫忙的不是來找你麻煩的因為我們如果說通常是用那種監督或者是檢查的方式所有這些企業都怕得要死他們都想辦法躲那我們現在就是想辦法說我們是來幫你改善你的資安的所以我們不是說我來找麻煩的這個我想我們第一步要做到這件事情"},{"start":592.156,"end":593.998,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 非常感謝魯明哲委員接下來我們邀請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:23.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:18:24.119000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:24.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:18:25.281000+08:00","text":"有請數發部林部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:25.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:18:26.063000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:26.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:18:26.203000+08:00","text":"魯委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:26.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:18:26.503000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:18:35.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:19:19.375000+08:00","text":"我直接進入主題，事實上我們所有的民眾，我想包括你、我，很多人都不去實體店面，現在都在網購平臺，它的量體是非常大的，特別看了一下你們給我們的資料，根據Similarweb的統計，在過去三個月，平均每個月大概目前在臺灣看到網購電商平臺業者的排名順序，前五名有列出來：第一名蝦皮、第二名momo、第三名PChome、第四名博客來、第五名coupang，還有以下的排名。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:19:20.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:19:42.196000+08:00","text":"在前五名我們看到有很多國內的知名品牌，也有一些國外的，像蝦皮是新加坡、coupang是韓商，但對於民眾來講，我說真的在哪裡找到我要的貨，我才不管你是國內的品牌還是國外的平臺，對不對？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:19:42.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T11:19:43.196000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:19:43.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:20:13.952000+08:00","text":"我想依大家採購的習慣，幾乎9成是已經完全改變過來，這時候我們資訊安全跟很多的詐騙在這些網購平臺上面已經談了很多年，從整個購買的流程，不管是假的包裹，或者是電商傳一個假訊息，有很多釣魚的方式，這部分已經被談過很多次了。是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:20:14.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:20:15.333000+08:00","text":"就你們數位部來講，對於電商平台產生的詐騙，整體來說你們有什麼樣的具體作為？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:20:24.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:20:39.800000+08:00","text":"首先我們要瞭解這個問題，這個問題通常一開始是電商裡面的個資遭到洩漏，或者交易紀錄遭到洩漏，通常會有一些不法集團把這些資料賣給詐騙集團，現在分工事實上是蠻細的。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:20:39.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:20:54.006000+08:00","text":"然後這些詐騙集團就會委冒這些電商發簡訊、email或是以什麼方式去通知使用者，說你之前買的什麼貨現在發生了什麼事情，叫你補錢或者怎麼樣。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:20:54.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:21:05.472000+08:00","text":"而這些資料還有會員資料如果是真實的話，使用者一般民眾就很容易上當，所以我們現在很重要的事情是管到源頭不能有個資的洩漏。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:21:05.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:21:15.197000+08:00","text":"像最近就是有幾樁個資洩漏的問題，我們發現這個問題是出在人的問題，其實不是資訊的問題，是他們內部有內鬼。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:21:15.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:21:27.965000+08:00","text":"像最近韓國就發生了這種事情，後來發現是一個來自中國大陸的工程師，他從內部就把那些資料用不法的方式去存取。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:21:28.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:21:41.292000+08:00","text":"就我們來講，我們最重要的是遇到這個事情就要趕快揭露，趕快通知民眾，尤其是資料遭到洩漏的民眾，要他們一定要小心。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:21:43.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:03.879000+08:00","text":"我們在立法院當然經常會問及政府單位，希望能夠多做一點，可是這樣的平台業者家大業大，平台業者包括很多電商及這麼多的消費者在中間，他們的資安責任應該相對的要越來越大。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:04.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:05.360000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:06.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:20.448000+08:00","text":"其次，事實上很多的平台業者，對於電商不管是上架費或者手續費，這幾年也是不斷的提升，在這個提升的過程，肯定裡面要有一個部分是自己要投資在資安吧，對不對？當然。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:21.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:33.035000+08:00","text":"你剛剛特別說了，酷澎去年11月個資外洩，我就覺得這有一點鞭長莫及的感覺齁，去年11月發生這樣的事情，新聞見報的時候，數位部有跟我們回報嘛，11月份就有去問嘛，酷澎臺灣說這個主要是韓國的帳號。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:33.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:34.176000+08:00","text":"你們在12月再次去問啦，你們都有盡你們的責任去問啦！","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:34.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:34.356000+08:00","text":"是，而且要求他們有文字的承諾。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:22:34.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:22:37.157000+08:00","text":"但我就覺得還滿無奈的，第二次問酷澎又跟你說沒有臺灣的帳戶受影響，這是你們說的齁？是。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:01.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:23:15.655000+08:00","text":"一直到兩個月之後，當然因為事件發生在韓國嘛，資料庫在他們那邊，後來他們第三方調查清楚了才說不好意思，實際都有影響到，臺灣大概有超過20萬個用戶是個資未經授權，可以講被盜取。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:21.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:23:34.730000+08:00","text":"現在面臨這樣的情況有兩個部分，對於這個事件，我們臺灣用戶有20萬個個資外洩的事件，未來有什麼樣的處罰或是有什麼樣的責任？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:35.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:23:40.154000+08:00","text":"第二個，在數位部的角度跟業者到底有什麼樣的改善機制？","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:40.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:23:41.135000+08:00","text":"能不能說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:41.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:23:42.716000+08:00","text":"先針對現在處理的進度，請數產署林署長說明。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T11:23:49.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:24:08.124000+08:00","text":"跟委員扼要報告，事件發生之後，我們當然第一是要求他們補漏洞，第二是去做行政檢查，行政檢查的調查報告，我們目前已經送到行政院，因為調查的結果還是要請當事人陳述，現在他正在陳述當中，所以我們未來還是會在行政院開會並進行報告。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:24:11.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:24:27.124000+08:00","text":"就這個部分可能外商整個電腦資料庫都在國外，我剛剛說的第1名蝦皮的資料庫是不是在新加坡？","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:24:28.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:24:47.063000+08:00","text":"那酷澎當然就是在韓國，這樣會有一點鞭長莫及的感覺，你們是不是有提臺灣的客戶希望他們能夠資料落地，我們可以就近用資安的角度，不管是協助或是監督他們，都能在第一時間就能夠確認，不知道能不能朝向這個方向？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:24:48.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:25:17.001000+08:00","text":"從監理的方向來講，我們非常希望所有這些公司能夠做到資料落地，事實上我們最近都在講主權AI，這個也是主權資料，就是我們對資料有管轄權，但是因為臺灣之前加入WTO的時候事實上是簽過一些協定，假如依照WTO那些協定，就是各個國家不應該去要求這些的國際公司進行資料落地，就是data localization。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:25:19.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:25:42.140000+08:00","text":"當然我們知道最近因為國際的局勢已經發生變化，美國川普政府對於資料落地這些事情的態度已經改變了，所以這個地方我們正在努力的協調當中，我們希望在不違反我們之前對其他國家在WTO架構下承諾的狀況下，看能不能做一些更好的監管。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:25:42.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:25:50.588000+08:00","text":"好，最後一個問題還是延續性的，針對數位部延續過去工業局所做企業資安檢測服務的部分，請署長說明一下。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:25:56.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:09.869000+08:00","text":"從107年到現在也七、八年了，我們看了一下，年年大概有三、四十家做這個檢測服務，所以我想瞭解一下，是企業主動報名是不是？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:10.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:13.151000+08:00","text":"就是他們要不要參加不是我們決定的？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:13.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:14.512000+08:00","text":"到底主動權是在誰？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:14.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:22.097000+08:00","text":"是我們覺得哪一些風險高，或者像這個比數高，他影響的層面大，我們就去選？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:22.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:23.318000+08:00","text":"還是他們自由報名參加？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:26.800000+08:00","text":"就是誰來參加企業資安檢測服務？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:26.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:31.643000+08:00","text":"請署長說明一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:31.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:37.925000+08:00","text":"當然就是各行各業嘛，但是我們的篩選能量還是有限，所以是以管理……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:38.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:40.606000+08:00","text":"所以是我們自己篩選？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長俊秀","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:41.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:45.147000+08:00","text":"有時候不是我們篩選，有時候他們也要願意來報名，因為他可能要配合一些……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:45.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:46.128000+08:00","text":"那到底是怎麼回事啦？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:46.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:49.769000+08:00","text":"我來說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:26:49.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:26:59.032000+08:00","text":"部長，我時間到了，我的想法是這樣，如果是自由報名，願者上鉤啊，我也覺得那你們太辛苦了啦，為什麼？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:27:00.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:27:06.278000+08:00","text":"就是那種不重視資安的，或者資安觀念有問題，這些業者根本不報名嘛！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:27:06.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:27:45.200000+08:00","text":"第二個，如果是風險非常高，客戶非常多，但是還是不參加，我覺得經歷這樣的一個事情，因為我看了你們連續三年檢測的一百多家公司並沒有剛剛講的那五家，就是第1名到第4名都沒有，所以我是建議一下，我不是說你們要去干擾誰啦，你抽測的對象，對於這種非常重要，一旦個資洩漏會造成非常大影響的，這個我們一定要有點主動的性質，可以嗎？","quality":0.801},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:27:46.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:28:13.356000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，這的確是我們努力的方向，現在數發部要極力告訴所有民間企業的是，我們是來幫忙的，不是來找你麻煩的，因為我們如果通通用那種監督或是檢查的方式，所有企業都怕得要死，他們都會想辦法躲，我們現在就是想辦法告訴他們是來幫忙改善資安的，不是來找麻煩的，我們第一步要做到這件事情。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-03-18T11:28:14.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:28:14.536000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-03-18T11:28:14.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:28:15.357000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T11:28:15.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:28:15.798000+08:00","text":"非常感謝魯明哲委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T11:28:15.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T11:28:15.998000+08:00","text":"接下來請鍾佳濱發言。","quality":0.444}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}