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先跟經濟部來做一個溝通我想剛剛其他的委員對於這個統裝瓦斯漲價的部分非常關心本行業應該要為基層百姓來發聲我想統裝瓦斯的部分經濟部這邊可不可以幫忙帶入相關的意見穩定相關的物價波動這部分統裝瓦斯漲價是不是能夠幫忙抑制一下經濟部"},{"start":49.201,"end":75.347,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我會把這個意見交給相關的生產供應公司好好謝謝那另外呢也要再銜接剛剛有一題我們陳主委我們剛剛賴委員其實對於這個賴總統曾經說過這個緊急命令可能會重啟核能來做一個備用那我們先不管這整個過程我想先預設一個立場假設今天"},{"start":76.567,"end":94.762,"text":"我們因為國際的地緣政治衝突的一個問題導致最後我們真的需要重啟核能瞬間要來這樣子的一個備用機組趕緊頂替上來相關的緊急使用的SOP你們準備好了嗎"},{"start":97.615,"end":114.493,"text":"因為剛剛都在探討所謂的緊急命令嘛那個要賴總統來宣布嘛我現在就直接問假設今天他真的必須宣布了核能要趕快啟動來接替我們相關不足的部分你們有沒有相關的SOP"},{"start":115.578,"end":142.738,"text":"所有的東西一定要合乎核能安全對我知道我知道你們一定會檢查檢驗嘛在核能安全無疑慮的情況之下才能夠啟動嘛我都知道但是你有沒有這樣子的SOP來應付緊急使用的一個過程不要說到時候賴總統宣布了緊急命令然後結果你們才說喔我來研擬一下SOP"},{"start":144.266,"end":149.185,"text":"現在已經有國際地緣政治的衝突了嘛那我們是不是有這樣的SOP 請回答"},{"start":150.678,"end":176.019,"text":"跟委員說明喔那如果要緊急使用當然首先當然一開始有說到要有法源依據喔那要緊急使用核能電廠跟一般的發電廠不太一樣因為如果核電廠平常就是台電公司平常要維持設備的可用性那相關的人員的運轉維護能力都要有這我知道最重要的就是核燃料那核燃料要有足夠"},{"start":176.9,"end":203.796,"text":"那這部分就是事先要準備好所以有沒有SOP啦回答我那安慰本身就有一些管制的程序平常都會有監控住所以如果他緊急要使用的時候你們就會打開這個SOP去跑這個流程平常我們就有一些管制的程序在會去監督他所以你只有管制嘛我現在是說啟動對 本來啟動就有一定的程序在監控所以你可以因應這樣子的狀態"},{"start":206.102,"end":230.78,"text":"是可以的可是那台電公司就事先都要一些準備作業出來當然嘛他一定會準備不可能說我下一秒緊急啟動你下一秒就開嘛你一定會啟動一個程序然後SOP的檢查然後最後通報無疑慮然後最後再開始重啟核能嘛對不對對吧所以有SOP你要跟社會大眾交代啊我們才不要說到時候遇到了完全沒辦法才來抵定"},{"start":231.801,"end":254.189,"text":"所以你給我的回應是有SOP編長都會監管著好好謝謝那主委另外一個我想我也一直很關心我們現在福島河廢水排放的一個問題感覺現在也只有我在持續追蹤這個議題那第六次的赴日實地觀察整個完整的報告已經公佈在網站上"},{"start":255.169,"end":281.934,"text":"這次你也親自出席相關的訪團這次參訪的名稱我們叫做參加第十一屆台日核能管制的資訊交流會議以及核能設施的一個參訪主委請問這一次我們交流的會議及核能的參訪相關的設施針對我國核二核三再運轉你們相關的意見傾向為何"},{"start":290.831,"end":317.48,"text":"不好意思是沒辦法回答還是我的問題太深報告委員因為這次我們去日本參訪主要是針對這個寒川廢水的議題來進行討論所以我們主委親自出席寒川廢水是一部分嘛再來你也有啊參訪核能設施啊看完別人的核能設施了嘛那你對我國現在核二核三的再運轉有沒有什麼意見啊"},{"start":319.527,"end":337.52,"text":"我們去參訪福島電廠看看他的這個災後重建的狀況以及寒川廢水我想旅費也花了意見交換了實地現場也看了那總要表態一下和二和三重啟你們是樂觀其成還是有所疑慮"},{"start":340.899,"end":360.067,"text":"我們會依法安全審查這回應就是太過官腔了主委我就簡單問你我們剛剛說的2025完成了非核家園對不對然後呢現在核核三要重啟叫做新核能"},{"start":361.209,"end":389.701,"text":"我想先請問一下核二核三重啟大概我們看到龔明新經濟部長有說過大概一年半的時間要整個流程過後請問一下重啟是檢查還是會順便太舊換新換成所謂的新式的核能機組還是原有的核能機組核二核三是原本的核二核三還是新核能是原本的核二核三他不是說新核能所以政府都騙我們這是新核能"},{"start":390.956,"end":394.99,"text":"合二合三就是合二合三就是原本原汁原味的合二合三嘛"},{"start":395.953,"end":420.063,"text":"所以我想現在日本目前正在積極的推動受污染的土壤在利用他們設置一個示範工程區其中一半是由正常的土壤來鋪設另外一半是受污染的土壤鋪設並進行相關的觀察還有測試在這一次第六次的一個赴日觀察報告第28頁"},{"start":421.443,"end":442.686,"text":"我方有提問 民眾對於道路提防示範工程的一個想法 日方回答得很坦白雖然政府努力推動 宣導 驗證 溝通但是民眾接受度仍面臨了不少的挑戰 換句話說就是日本政府承認"},{"start":444.028,"end":465.903,"text":"福岛相关土壤再利用受到现在整个日本社会还是有很大的疑虑如果连日本人对自己都还有这么多的疑虑我们政府在政策上却一路着急着开放福岛的食品我想真的台湾人啊最该用什么都不怕"},{"start":467.205,"end":479.803,"text":"報告第29頁也提到訪團第15日傍晚行程結束後有順道在福島周邊海域採集表層的海水樣品有沒有"},{"start":480.563,"end":495.447,"text":"有的待會台灣來做一個分析海水的穿跟放射性相關的來做檢驗結果顯示啊都在目前福島周邊海域環境活度的變動範圍內我想問一下主委"},{"start":499.329,"end":522.605,"text":"為什麼只採海水怎麼不順便採一下日本的土壤樣本回來檢測去都去了來都來了尤其土壤才是很多爭議的核心問題而且福島以及周邊地區的農產品是實際有出口到台灣的市面上是有可能已經被民眾吃下肚的你怎麼不順便採集土壤回來檢驗一下"},{"start":526.159,"end":554.133,"text":"報告委員那主要是我們採海水主要是因應那個日本有針對寒川廢水的排放而且是排放30年所以我們會定期我們會去關切它對於周遭的一個環境的影響所以我們會去採川水那至於委員所說的這個日本進口的食品這邊那因為這個是屬於那個食藥署的一個衛福部食藥署的一個職責食品的部分是食藥署對"},{"start":554.633,"end":577.361,"text":"我说你既然都去了采集土壤了解一下相关有没有核污染嘛这核安慰稍微了解一下嘛这不应该推给食药署嘛食品完食品我现在是对他们的核污染有没有所谓的污染土土壤的问题那一天你们已经有做土壤污染土的土壤工程防波堤的一个探讨了嘛"},{"start":578.061,"end":604.967,"text":"對不對就代表說你也關心所謂的污染土相關的示範工程那你怎麼不順便採集污染土呢不要跟我講說食品是食藥署我現在沒跟你講食品的問題跟委員報告一下這一個所謂的一些污染的污染的土壤其實在日本是做一個管制的要符合一些安全標準他們才會試出來去做這些的一個所以你的意思是說他不給你採集的機率很高"},{"start":605.567,"end":626.249,"text":"對 因為沒有 它就是本身就是一個受管制民眾也不能夠去做一個接觸的所以他們會有一個叫做儲屋中間的儲存設施那其實在剛剛講的那他們都是在做這個沒有嘛 你有沒有試著要採集被拒絕嘛你就回答我嘛還是說你真的沒想到你就直接坦白講"},{"start":627.685,"end":643.527,"text":"沒有想到因為這一次這個污染的土壤其實是主要是他們日本境內的一個議題所以我們沒關係我尊重你今天我們大膽坦白嘛你沒有想到要採集你剛剛承認嘛那沒有關係我沒有要責備"},{"start":644.488,"end":660.324,"text":"那是不是未來有第七次的機會第八次的機會來徵詢一下日方的意見我們是不是能夠採集這個土壤的部分來檢驗一下有沒有污染的外溢或者是相關的問題這部分主委你覺得可以嗎"},{"start":662.846,"end":691.569,"text":"我們會評估一下我希望不要評估啦因為第一除非日方拒絕第二站在我們現在核安會的一個立場我們為什麼要去看川就是我們關心核廢水排放相關的議題嘛那核廢水排放只有所謂的川的議題嗎汙染土也是我們應該關心的所以我要一直在講主委您覺得我今天講的這個議題值不值得您做參考"},{"start":692.537,"end":711.88,"text":"我們可以做參考了報告第35頁寫得很清楚東京電力每一批LPS的處理水要排放前樣品都會送到大雄分析研究中心做第三方檢驗確認穿以外的其他盒種都有低於排放標準如果分析結果不符合標準"},{"start":713.241,"end":727.945,"text":"現在大雄分析研究中心檢查分析的流程和儀器狀態必要時會同一批樣品再測一次確認如果復驗之後還是不符合就會立刻通報日本的經產省由經產省再進一步來調查決定後續怎麼處理針對第35頁的內容請問主委"},{"start":734.527,"end":746.646,"text":"針對復燕之後還是不符合日本經產省其應對措施如何是採取禁止排放批次的處理水還是有什麼樣的作為"},{"start":749.692,"end":778.121,"text":"報告委員那因為在報告上我們其實是關心的就是等於大酒分析實驗室內部的一個品質保證的一些程序那如果就像委員講的如果今天已經複合又是不合格送到經產省這一邊那我相信因為他們會有一個緊急的停止排放的一些相關的一個措施那這個也是他們的考量的一個點之一好緊急停止排放相關的措施是不是也麻煩你了解一下"},{"start":778.761,"end":799.595,"text":"相關的流程我們要知道要掌握啊對不對我們不能都永遠相信日方啊台日友好沒有問題啊但面對這些相關的核汙染我們要採取最高原則啊所以主委在報告第21頁日方問我們台灣在海域監測發現異常時怎麼應變我們的答覆是什麼"},{"start":801.957,"end":822.122,"text":"先確認數據正確性再透過台灣日本交流協會向日方確認有異常排放確認資訊無誤後才提到跨部會平台再由全責機關啟動後續的因應主委請問若發現異常後相關措施第一時間為什麼不是先預警發布通知國內禁食啊"},{"start":823.154,"end":850.721,"text":"反而是要先向日方來做確認若是藥品發現疑慮食藥署第一時間是先要求下架停用在調查原因我們怎麼會變成反過來問日方這是不是太尊重了不是說要你不尊重我們應該要先以守護食安為第一優先這個流程是不是應該要有所更正更正一下主委"},{"start":852.645,"end":870.952,"text":"報告委員那就是如果我們有發現確實是在復合之後有異常那我們第一時間一定是資訊公開那後續為什麼我們要去掌握日本的一個排放源頭因為我們知道日本其實跟台灣其實還是有一些距離的就像我們現在在追蹤那個海洋擴散"},{"start":871.832,"end":889.84,"text":"其實他現在還是以日本本州的東部為主所以在這一段的一個時間我們就會來去跟日方去做整個等於資訊的一個正確的一個查證我承認我們跟日方有一段的距離但是我也要講的是我們應該透過日方"},{"start":890.74,"end":908.948,"text":"能夠更準確更快速的資料回傳讓我們能夠有所判斷透過台灣日本交流協會轉給日方會不會要有一週兩週的時間還是一個月啊如果日方不回應呢那如果日方只說沒事我們就完全相信是這樣子的機制嗎"},{"start":910.7,"end":937.092,"text":"所以我還是一再強調台日友好但面對食品安全但面對核污染我們應該是優先保障國人這樣的流程我覺得很接受挑戰所以我希望流程應該要再做相關的檢討不是不相信日方而是我們有沒有機制第一優先把關這部分主委可不可以給我回應一下我們應該回來檢討一下"},{"start":939.226,"end":954.466,"text":"好 我也見過跨部會還有一些在座討論好 再回覆委員主委 最近何安慧這幾年原子能科普的一個推廣上其實做得不錯所以我想把科普的相關知識科研"},{"start":955.507,"end":978.483,"text":"成果安全管制的業務結合設計很多互動式的科普遊戲這兩年大型的科普展在雙北雲林新竹把資源帶進到地方讓更多學生家長有機會接觸請問科普展今年有沒有機會辦在台中讓中部的家長學生社會大眾也一樣有近距離接觸原子能科普的機會"},{"start":981.46,"end":1008.091,"text":"我們再批規一下 再恢復台中有科博館 科學園區 大專院校地方百貨公司 大型展演空間過去也多次辦相關的科普活動我想都沒有問題我是最後希望是不是主委能夠承諾一下來到台中我們會補一下好不好再回答哪時候給我回應對不起 最後一個問題哪時候給我回應"},{"start":1009.434,"end":1015.815,"text":"哪周啊一个月内一个月内好啊一个月好好谢谢好谢谢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}