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bwd6"},{"start":1120.064,"end":1120.926,"text":"好久不見"},{"start":1925.155,"end":1950.96,"text":"現在繼續開會請議事委員宣讀今日的議程邀請財政部莊部長翠玲衛生福利部邱部長太元法務部海洋委員會海巡署就近三年煙酒管理法對於私煙含電子煙加熱煙查緝成效與煙品健康捐經費分配及運作使用情形進行專題報告並被質詢宣布完畢"},{"start":1954.653,"end":1962.437,"text":"我們現在原例介紹在場的委員跟與會的政府官員首先林德福委員吳秉瑞委員我們介紹政府官員財政部莊部長公務署的陳署長護稅署的宋署長以及關務署的彭署長"},{"start":1984.472,"end":2012.59,"text":"還有國務財政署的曾署長財政資訊中心的張主任衛生福利部的邱部長以及國健署的吳署長食藥署的王副署長醫事室的劉副市長長期照顧室的吳律師長及管制署的楊組長"},{"start":2016.451,"end":2038.055,"text":"健保署的陳組長社會及家庭署的楊組長法務部檢察室的主任檢察官劉檢察官以及林檢察官海洋委員會海巡署謝護署長情報組的廖組長"},{"start":2043.427,"end":2049.469,"text":"以及正方式的滕主任曾黃分署的黃分署長"},{"start":2052.861,"end":2073.907,"text":"好 今天議程安排邀請財政部莊部長翠雲 衛生福利部邱部長泰元法務部海洋委員會海巡署就近三年研究管理法對於私菸含電子菸加熱菸查緝成效"},{"start":2075.729,"end":2081.139,"text":"與菸品健康圈經費分配局運作使用情形進行專題報告現在請財政部的專務部長進行專題報告 請"},{"start":2092.045,"end":2119.202,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會安排就近三年的菸酒管理法對於失菸含電子菸跟加熱菸的茶氣成效以及菸品健康捐的經費分配及運作情形進行專題報告接下來請就本部的業務部分我們說明如下首先就是近三年違法菸品茶氣成效還有精進作為對於違法菸品的茶氣成效從111年到113年"},{"start":2121.623,"end":2127.927,"text":"查獲的違法菸品分別為1564萬包跟1838萬包以及1120萬包那麼113年的查獲量比112年減少了718萬包那麼但是查獲的件數是增加了4589件那主要是因為邊境走私的菸品轉變為國內地下的菸廠來產製私菸"},{"start":2147.11,"end":2153.132,"text":"而且從大型的製菸設備違法製菸轉變為地點分散而且規模小型化以至於使以查獲違法菸品的數量降低但是查氣的困難度卻是相對的增加那麼114年到5月底在中央和地方查氣機關的努力之下違法菸品查獲量是826萬包那麼和113年同期比較是增加了283萬包增加幅度是52%"},{"start":2177.701,"end":2184.045,"text":"目前還沒有經衛福部核定通過健康風險評估審查的加熱菸市面上的加熱菸都是屬於私菸查獲數量有逐年上升的一個趨勢在113年查獲的是229萬包"},{"start":2199.025,"end":2226.595,"text":"就要113年是增幅達到131.91%那114年到5月底那麼茶貨的一個數量113萬包呢比114年同期也增幅達到72.66%在電子菸的部分電子菸它因為不含菸草所以不屬於菸酒管理法所管理的範圍邊境的管制是由海關配合衛福部執行查緝市面上則是由地方衛生單位來負責查緝"},{"start":2228.556,"end":2246.907,"text":"那麼煙品茶器的精進作為包括本部每年會訂定加強茶器失煙煙酒測淨的計畫並且將地下煙廠以及加熱煙等新型違法的太陽列為重點的茶器對象第二個為了有效茶器地下的煙廠我們除了請海關運用風險管理機制並且善用X光檢查儀加強茶器進口貨物虛報豁免或是夾纏煙業或煙絲以及制煙設備的案件"},{"start":2259.141,"end":2264.284,"text":"同時也請地方政府要把廢棄或偏遠地區的工廠列為查查的重點那麼對於加熱菸請海關我們也請海關將快遞郵包列為查棄的重點透過情資的分析鎖定相關高風險人員或者是貨物我們截查於關口"},{"start":2278.874,"end":2291.933,"text":"另外本部也將會在近日會召開會議我們會邀集衛福部、署罰部、中央還有地方的查緝機關來延伸精進失菸查緝的一個作為並且修正我們的一個加強撤進的計畫"},{"start":2294.376,"end":2320.015,"text":"對於煙捐分配和運用情形根據煙害防治法及煙捐分配運作辦法的規定煙捐徵收的金額其中的1%是供中央以及地方撕裂煙品茶器及防治煙品稅捐逃漏之用那麼本部貨配的煙捐其中95%用作茶器撕煙之用那麼5%作防治煙品稅捐逃漏之用"},{"start":2320.675,"end":2336.468,"text":"那麼撕裂菸品茶器經費近三年的平均數是2.56億元其中提供給中央茶器機關及地方政府是2.33億元其中0.23億元是由本部國庫署作為茶器資訊系統的維護還有業務宣導等用途"},{"start":2340.071,"end":2366.71,"text":"對於防治煙品的稅捐逃漏經費的運用情形防治煙品稅捐逃漏經費近三年平均是0.13億元主要是撥供本部負稅署來督導各地區國稅局辦理宣導活動來提供民眾正確租稅常識以及防漏防渡逃漏稅捐之用那麼對於檢舉或查獲違規煙酒案件獎勵金請領以及核發的程序那麼根據我們"},{"start":2368.211,"end":2379.879,"text":"檢舉或查獲違規煙酒案件的獎勵辦法的規定違規煙酒案件在判決或行政處分確定之後那麼就會由地方政府逐案的提報給本部的國庫署申請發給獎勵金那麼這個獎勵金是發給檢舉人以及查緝機關"},{"start":2387.024,"end":2393.807,"text":"那麼本部國庫署都沒有支領相關的獎勵金那麼為強化菸酒獎勵金的勤領程序還有管理的機制本部可進行檢討以及做精進的作為那最後的結語本部將根據和各茶器機關通力合作來積極茶器步伐滾動檢討茶器措施還有精進作為來提升我們茶器以及管理的效能"},{"start":2412.057,"end":2417.765,"text":"達到維護市場的秩序以及確保國家稅收的目標以上敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2432.785,"end":2455.363,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士先生 今天 答應第十一屆第三會期財政委員會召開第十八次全體委員會議 本部呈邀列席報告深感榮幸之就今三年N9管理法對失煙含電子煙交流源查緝成效以煙品健康福利與經費分配及運作使用情形提出專案報告 敬請各位委員不吝會議執教"},{"start":2457.324,"end":2482.953,"text":"一 備警說明為防範電子煙危害本部推動修訂煙害防治法全面禁止電子煙等烈煙品及未經核定通過健康風險評估審查之指定煙品含加熱煙二 電子煙及加熱煙管制測試及成效一 跨部會合作嚴妥管制有建議非法煙煙品取得來源系透過網路販售管道為主"},{"start":2483.533,"end":2504.034,"text":"本部追討相關部會進行沿途管理以邊界攔截加強網路稽查違法販售資訊及強化跨單位查緝等精進作為更成立跨部會M&M查緝平台從供應面、販售面及使用面進行各階段分工合作"},{"start":2504.614,"end":2520.028,"text":"本部已召開114年第一次電子煙查緝平台會議整合台政部等九大部會持續強化源頭阻斷稽查執行以網路監控作為此外本部已著手檢討並推動煙害防治法修法工作納入"},{"start":2521.329,"end":2543.631,"text":"電子煙等烈煙品沒入機制及完善網際網路違法廣告行銷行為管制以守護國連健康二 監測及稽查取締情形為杜絕網路販售電子煙及加油煙違法資訊本部同步強化網路平台合作與監測自112年至114年5月抵制本部國民健康署"},{"start":2544.111,"end":2565.816,"text":"通報平台業者及其自主管理下架,涉違反煙害防治法案件合計44,681件。從114年監測案件中,政府民間及業者合作下架案件達4.4%,電子煙及加熱煙產品在購物平台違法販售情況初步已有控制。"},{"start":2566.696,"end":2575.681,"text":"中央與地方政府共同加強稽查電子煙及加熱煙等違法產品至112年至114年5月底開立處分書計6,367件,計裁法現代幣約5.4億元,另予與財政部官務署合作,以邊界攔截違法產品後檢護"},{"start":2588.288,"end":2612.817,"text":"相關事證資料已請地方政府依NHK防治法N9管理法查處3.N品健康福利兼經費分配及運作使用情形NHK防治法明定N間用途並依N間分配及運用辦法規定之分配比例應用各秀分配機關年度經費之止血情況及成效等相關資訊依法每年於機關網站公開結語"},{"start":2615.698,"end":2632.919,"text":"本部持續推動《NR防治法》部分條文修正草案並更系對網路平台及販售者加強監測與稽查判未來呈強力執法工具本部呈答應各委員執職教及監督在此靜置歇程並期各位委員繼續予以支持 以上謝謝"},{"start":2636.251,"end":2659.819,"text":"好 謝謝邱部長的專題報告那麼我們還有兩個單位的報告就請委員自行參閱因為這個海巡署的報告跟側政部的有些資料是有一點重疊的法務部等一下有各位要問的話再問好了所以我們現在開始先做一下的宣告"},{"start":2661.018,"end":2678.098,"text":"每位出席委員發言八分鐘必要的時候延長兩分鐘每位列席委員發言五分鐘今天上午十點鐘截止發言登記現在請依登記順序登記地位的林德福委員執行請"},{"start":2693.76,"end":2698.967,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請財政部莊部長財政部的莊部長請委員長莊部長你好我請教因為賴總統日前接見"},{"start":2709.622,"end":2728.112,"text":"美國聯邦眾議員國會台灣連線共同主席貝拉訪問團時刻提到期待解決台美雙重課稅法案能在今年順利完成立法"},{"start":2728.812,"end":2751.052,"text":"那台美雙重課稅法案雖然在美國眾議院有通過但是還必須面對兩關啦兩個關卡就是參議院的表決通過以美國總統的簽署那我請問莊部長這個台美雙重課稅法案最快你認為何時在美國參議院進行處理"},{"start":2756.124,"end":2760.986,"text":"跟委員報告台美避免雙重課稅這個協定的案子謝謝委員的關心您的關心也可以表達國內各界對這個法案的期盼除了眾議院在1月15號通過之外參院同時也在1月23號提出了一個內容一致的法案"},{"start":2776.536,"end":2782.322,"text":"所以基本上這個法案是美國國會跨黨派的一個支持當然目前美國國會參議院還在處理他們其他的一個法案但是我們本部外交部還有駐美代表處都維持一個推案的動能以及就如同您剛剛所講的不管總統也好副總統也好在接見美國相關的團體的時候都會表達這樣的意願"},{"start":2800.18,"end":2822.579,"text":"以及美台商会的协会还有台湾美国商会等等都在努力的在促进这个案子那你认为在今年年底这个有没有信心在年底这个美国能够完成立法程序这个部分我们当然是希望越快越好这样子可以避免这个双方跨境投资者一个课税的一个重复课针"},{"start":2823.086,"end":2834.359,"text":"那但是有關其成的部分不是我方所能夠掌控控制的但是我們會努力的做這個推案的一個進行的一個相關努力動作都會在各個方面"},{"start":2834.758,"end":2854.447,"text":"那委員的一個質詢事實上也是表達了國內的一些期盼我希望越快越好那個部長因為日前發布我國五月出口的金額首度突破500億美元創下517.4億美元的新高跟去年同期增加38.6%"},{"start":2857.848,"end":2881.164,"text":"增幅度增加的幅度驚人外界認為主要原因是因為川普關稅戰暫緩90天的緣故強勁的拉貨效應那帶動大幅出口那今年一到五月我國對美貿易寸差已經達到418億美元估計前年將會超過1000億美元那我請問部長對此現象"},{"start":2887.81,"end":2888.357,"text":"有何解讀呢"},{"start":2889.705,"end":2895.047,"text":"是跟委員報告確實5月份的出口達到517億美元是創歷年來的一個新高從來沒有超過500億美元而1到5月份的部分我們的累計出口也達到2300億跟去年同期比是成長24%這個部分當然有我們的人工智慧的一個創新科技的商機持續的一個擴展在國際間那第二個部分當然還有一些部分的科技新品上市要準備要再做一些推"},{"start":2918.097,"end":2936.723,"text":"那你認為這是不是拉貨的效應關稅的關係當然美國關稅這個措施有一個延緩90天的實施那麼客戶端他把那個需求提早提出來然後也加大的拉貨的力道這個確實是有這樣的一個因素在裡面那是短暫的那我請問對此現象的解讀你是否對台美關稅談判將來會帶來不利的影響會不會"},{"start":2945.486,"end":2945.866,"text":"但是齁"},{"start":2961.983,"end":2979.172,"text":"從各方面去觀察其實你看我們鄰近的國家包括日本、韓國甚至於對岸他們都很硬就是跟美國在談關稅的時候很硬但是我們就是剛好對倒"},{"start":2980.032,"end":3006.812,"text":"相反不要說到時候是因為我們這幾個月這個粗糙而且是大幅度的增長那帶來未來有很不好的一個結果我們是期待能夠跟其他的國家能夠比而且不要超越現在差不多百分之十到百分之三十"},{"start":3008.152,"end":3033.978,"text":"那當然十以下是最好啦那我再請教部長以色列跟伊朗之間的衝突沒有降溫的跡象那美國總統川普也對外表示開始考慮對伊朗來發動攻擊那多數專家認為短期內亞洲整體股市將會走跌中東戰爭將衝擊整個全球的原物料"},{"start":3034.998,"end":3058.098,"text":"包括能源、運輸以及全球的這些供應鏈油價與黃金價格上漲若中東供油長期受阻通盆將持續升溫今年3月行政院物價穩定小組宣布進口大宗物資免稅或減稅的期限到9月底"},{"start":3059.178,"end":3086.883,"text":"那請問部長如果美國對伊朗進一步採取攻擊中東衝突擴大行政院物價穩定小組與財政部是我會緊急來調整整個大宗物資降稅相關的措施以來穩定我們國內的物價會不會是跟委員報告那個中東情勢的緊張當然會影響到能源市場的一些價格的一些波動以及其他供應鏈的一些影響"},{"start":3087.663,"end":3094.307,"text":"那至於這個有關物價的一些情況我們在那個行政院有一個物價穩定小組裡面那已經決議就是說相關的大宗物資的營業稅、關稅還有貨物稅都調降或減免到九月底那這個期間呢"},{"start":3103.796,"end":3117.323,"text":"穩定物價小組也會持續的關注國內物價的一個變動情形那如果有需要的話當然是還可以往後延續對啊你要事前有一些這個必要的措施來杜絕緩緩嘛不然到時候"},{"start":3118.504,"end":3142.089,"text":"你要是整個衝擊擴大那當然對整個國內影響會非常的嚴重來 部長我請教有媒體報導認為如果伊朗封鎖這個荷莫茲海峽限制石油的運輸將促使油價大幅度的上漲更進一步來推高通貨對原本已經受到美國總統川普關稅戰衝擊的國家"},{"start":3145.391,"end":3148.133,"text":"將造成更大的經濟壓力那美國關稅戰的談判有經濟學者認為"},{"start":3152.25,"end":3177.557,"text":"英國關稅大概就落在10%預料是地板至於美國目前對中國大陸課成30%全面性的關稅則是天花板意味著未來各國的關稅談判大概都會在10%到30%裡面來進行那台積電已經赴美投資政府也打算採購阿拉斯加的這個"},{"start":3179.505,"end":3184.166,"text":"那我請問部長目前台美關稅談判到底有沒有什麼進展"},{"start":3204.668,"end":3216.995,"text":"台美關稅談判目前是由副院長領軍還有行政院OTN他們在持續而且密集的相互溝通那這個部分也會爭取國內國家以及產業的一個最大利益"},{"start":3217.574,"end":3246.351,"text":"那目前來說因為雙方的默契並不便於對外說明那在適當時機可以說的時候一定會對外說明什麼都是保密啦反正你這個到最後一翻出來一翻兩遍不要賠了忽了又責兵那個部長查集失菸有賴第一線的同仁積極來查集以維護個人的健康防止逃漏稅捐在今年二月由財政部阮市長來主持召開一一四年度的失劣菸"},{"start":3247.993,"end":3271.432,"text":"煙酒的查緝匯報會議中提到113年在查緝同仁通力合作下一共查獲涉嫌違反煙酒管理法煙類的數量達到1120萬餘包但近日爆出不肖的海巡人員利用人頭來詐領"},{"start":3273.314,"end":3282.053,"text":"查集失焉的獎金讓國人感到非常的失望也對過去查集失焉的績效打了一個大大的問號"},{"start":3283.581,"end":3308.12,"text":"那國人對茶旗失焉的數量也產生質疑那我請問部長113年度失焉茶旗數字是否有被動手腳的可能性你認為有沒有失焉的茶器基本上各個茶器機關都會到茶器現場去先看有沒有違法的情勢然後要清點茶貨的數量並且做成記錄那絕大部分的"},{"start":3308.946,"end":3323.554,"text":"絕大部分的查緝機關以及查緝人員一定是合法合規的在做那極少數的害群之馬那是不應該的那我們這個部分當然不會司法一定會進行調查以及不會寬容"},{"start":3324.394,"end":3326.016,"text":"那在制度面的部分呢我們財政部呢國庫署也會在下個禮拜就會要幾個相關機關再來做精進來防度這樣的一個不應該一個情勢發生但是絕大部分的查緝人員跟查緝機關都是依法依規在做的"},{"start":3341.976,"end":3360.43,"text":"最後一個議題 華務部廉政署為防範政府採購過程中潛藏的這些廉政風險今年辦理高風險政府採購案件全國性專案集合依循行政院及所屬機關使用深層式的AI參考指引"},{"start":3363.512,"end":3392.272,"text":"這個深層式的AI進行跨機關資料庫的大數據分析本席認為值得政府其他機關來學習那針對此次海巡失焉人頭案媒體報導人頭多為無業或低收入戶導致大筆罰款沒有辦法執行因為罰款都是呆帳不斷的增高同一個人的人頭負責重複出現而且"},{"start":3393.032,"end":3417.373,"text":"也不繳罰款 因為他沒有錢怎麼繳那本市希望說未來查集私菸相關單位導入AI大數據分析機制再早期揪出漏洞改善政府部門內部監控的這些機制 打擊不法那請問財政部 法務部 海巡署你們有什麼看法"},{"start":3419.891,"end":3433.158,"text":"委員這個建議也就運用AI來做一個檢查我覺得我們可以在討論的時候把它納入好啦 我希望說你們要積極而且要用科技的方式對 運用大數據跟科技謝謝委員指教 謝謝好 下一位請吳秉立委員資訊 請"},{"start":3445.717,"end":3449.159,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長來 莊部長委員好部長現在這個菸的稅跟捐的比例是怎麼樣待會就跟委員報告 是那當初這個菸的防治法是"},{"start":3472.295,"end":3484.413,"text":"112年3月修正的時候你們有經過試算嗎這個部分他們有各的等一下沒關係請署長幫忙回答好是"},{"start":3489.584,"end":3502.877,"text":"不好意思委員可不可以麻煩 菸捐跟菸稅的比例菸捐跟菸稅的比例以及112年3月菸害防治法修正的時候你們有沒有估算過每一年收到菸捐跟菸稅的這個金額我現在手上"},{"start":3510.205,"end":3538.156,"text":"煙捐我們以113年度煙捐是264.21億這個不是負稅嘛那煙稅的部分呢煙稅是155.88億所以大概捐是稅的一倍嗯 差不多差不多100那如果是這個樣子的話這幾年的陶漏加熱煙的部分漏掉了多少稅"},{"start":3539.321,"end":3550.554,"text":"漏掉了多少捐因為加熱菸現在是還沒有經過衛福部許可所以我們沒有辦法因為這幾年沒有通過使得捐跟稅各少了多少嘛你們的估算"},{"start":3552.469,"end":3578.198,"text":"包括委員因為這個蠻難估算因為根據衛福委的說法其實它這個是有替代效果簡單講它如果沒有加熱菸可抽它會抽其他的菸所以我跟你說啦市面上都在抽加熱菸立法委員你去抓院會旁邊兩黨三黨全部都在吸加熱菸啦我親眼所見我在這邊作證包括民進黨國民黨跟民眾黨"},{"start":3580.376,"end":3603.093,"text":"抽菸的立法委員裡面大多數都是吸加熱菸啦所以我就是要問你說你們當初有沒有做稅市的評估嘛因為你如果有評估的時候你就會去知道說這個你們原來估計大概是多少後來收到多少相減就是可以評估大概漏掉多少"},{"start":3604.641,"end":3633.146,"text":"跟委員報告因為煙稀食量的減少有的人是會認為是因為煙稅跟煙捐多課了所以它影響了消費所以我們因為現在沒辦法去獨立說煙變少是什麼原因這是我們困難的地方但是我們可以看到是說現在對加熱煙的部分我們也是在等如果它許可的我們這個部分一定會去課徵這樣好 那請回座請衛福部的邱部長"},{"start":3635.925,"end":3636.146,"text":"邱部長"},{"start":3642.985,"end":3671.508,"text":"總部長請回座部長112年3月12號 陰害防治法施行那你當時也是在衛環委員會所以我們透過這個東西是很不容易但是你們後面加了一個要健康風險評估 這我們當然也贊成可是健康風險評估 請問什麼時候開始送件到現在將近兩年半了"},{"start":3672.449,"end":3688.566,"text":"超過九個季了到現在還沒有任何一家通過健康風險評估沒有通過的原因是因為評估的很嚴格等於是實質上雖然立法院通過了但是你們這個評估委員會再把關然後再限縮還是"},{"start":3690.808,"end":3708.253,"text":"沒有人要送件 還是送件的這些廠商都是阿里不搭包括研究公司 都亂七八糟 九個月通不過到底是什麼原因 可不可以告訴我們好 謝謝委員我想我們在NHK網路日報裡面就是有審查的一個健康風險評估審查辦法"},{"start":3710.133,"end":3725.147,"text":"那其實有七家申請六家什麼時候開始申請這個時程等一下請吳署長跟報告一下那我們一定是因為這涉及人民權益跟公眾健康所以我們依照審查辦法循著審查的程序組成審查會"},{"start":3726.688,"end":3736.819,"text":"秉持科學實證專業及保護公眾健康最高目標其實是很謹慎一程序在辦理那實際上的詳細的比較細的狀況我請過程請吳署長跟委員報告跟委員報告第一家送成的是在當年112年的6月底"},{"start":3750.134,"end":3773.064,"text":"那到現在兩年了都審不過那因為審查的過程中有時候因為委員的要求看到業者送出來的資料有一些不完整或缺漏那會請業者再重新送件那每一屆業者他再重新補正資料的時候那各家都不一樣你能不能公布那個審查的流程的那些細節啊我現在要問的問題是什麼意思你越慢通過"},{"start":3774.656,"end":3798.726,"text":"漏掉更多的稅跟捐啦這兩年多來加熱菸因為你們審查結果都一直遲遲不通過使得國庫應該收到的稅以及應該收到的這個菸捐啊到現在都收不到你們現在用抓私菸用罰款其實跟稅跟捐的比例啊還是不成比例你知道嗎每一年國家因為這樣漏掉多少錢啊那"},{"start":3801.538,"end":3821.395,"text":"這個審查是這樣子啦我要把它定成無比嚴苛那我立法院當初包括部長在的衛黃委員會包括我們本院的院會為什麼要通過加熱菸經過健康風險評估之後就可以審查就可以通過那你等於是用健康風險評估把這個東西掐死了嘛如果你審查的東西是用這樣的態度那我再問普健"},{"start":3828.157,"end":3836.022,"text":"你們因為這個社會大家對這個責任爭議不休你知道嗎甚至有人認為說這個是煙現在的捲煙業者在中間做梗讓加熱煙不能夠合法上市讓捲煙可以繼續佔有它的市場外面各種揣測陰謀論一大堆"},{"start":3854.687,"end":3872.596,"text":"阿我是覺得這個有賴衛福部你要把你們審查的經過細節還有欠缺什麼東西公佈而不是讓人家還有人用政治陰謀論說因為上層反對啦所以掛一個這個審查在那邊事實上就是不給你過阿"},{"start":3874.332,"end":3892.547,"text":"也有這樣子的政治陰謀論也有從經濟角度說因為捲菸的這個業者希望不要通過所以去施力那不通過他就能夠更長久的佔有市場你知道嗎中華民國政府所擁有的菸酒公司投資這個加熱菸的設備"},{"start":3895.205,"end":3921.887,"text":"早就都投資進去了錢都花了等著在那個合可之後能夠製造販賣你把合法的管道用這樣的方式縮減的話那就會助長非法嘛再來第二個問題是現在已經在吸加熱菸的人那麼多立法委員你去抓嘛你每天都宴會外面去尋就好啦我跟你講一抓一大把"},{"start":3923.257,"end":3950.882,"text":"然後在立法院眼看著這麼多的同仁在違法我是不抽菸的啦看著這麼多同仁在違法然後我們那個審查就是九計啦沒個進度你看第一家兩年啦審一個健康風險評估要兩年那七家申請 七家都不過到現在都不過那個請財政部再幫忙說明一下菸酒公司送多少"},{"start":3956.989,"end":3984.425,"text":"菸酒公司送件大概已經有超過一年了應該有超過一年以上了超過一年以上到底多久啊實際的時間因為他們你可不可以同意我我跟你講我現在跟你同意你們審查官民監控署要不要照程序來然後叫你補件你們的菸酒公司補件審查數據是這樣子我問一個問題再過半年不夠菸酒公司董事長下台要不要"},{"start":3987.492,"end":4008.171,"text":"健康風險評估上屆一年多審不完做不出來是因為普建什麼這些資料不齊備那英九公司鮮有疏失嘛我也沒有很嚴苛你回去跟他們其安講再過半年審不過他辭職要不要要不要立這個軍令狀"},{"start":4009.93,"end":4026.355,"text":"我想這個部分他也一直都非常努力的對於我們衛福部相關的意見他們也都在調整那我覺得我們所知是113年2月送件的那113年2月送件到現在一年多啊那中間補件過幾次啊 開過幾次啊你跟他講 他越慢我們中華民國就損失更多的錢啊"},{"start":4035.097,"end":4064.43,"text":"因為第一個 煙酒公司做這個焦熱煙它可以賺錢第二個 合法的管道真的符合了之後這些非法的自然就會減少很多那我們的煙稅 煙捐都可以都收得到這對社會有很多的好處那再加上它是職責所在煙酒公司董事長職責所在再半年不過我會請它下台這樣好不好他已經非常努力在做了事"},{"start":4065.828,"end":4067.755,"text":"你不要跟社會大眾講什麼 一定不會過啊"},{"start":4069.685,"end":4098.383,"text":"你是講一句我非常努力有衛福部來說明說明 請說明一下跟委員報告 Angel公司在113年2月左右送件那中間經過了審查會以後 退了5次的件那最後一次是在今年的4月底退還給財政部他被退了5次件 5次的理由都不一樣嗎還是每一次都找不同的理由你不能夠一次把理由跟他講清楚叫他一次補嗎"},{"start":4099.344,"end":4118.817,"text":"我們都很明確的告訴他需要準備哪一些案件好 聽到沒有 很明確告訴他所以如果再補不來 再通不過這個研究公司的董事長真的沒有什麼好做的啦坐在那個地方讓中華民國每天在損失稅跟捐然後損失你研究公司該賺的錢我講的有沒有道理"},{"start":4122.305,"end":4135.674,"text":"回去想想看那你問我希望你們國民健康署這個審查的過程喔細節給人家公佈對社會招公信可以嗎我們選來以後該公佈的一定會公佈而且一定會讓社會明瞭"},{"start":4136.647,"end":4157.228,"text":"什麼理由 要補什麼件 也讓人家知道嘛專家也會知道你要求的補件有沒有道理不是啊 我說對下派大政說明 我們立法委員不知道啊不然你把各公司的補件的理由 通通算入份報告到我們的辦公室來啊算到財政委員會來啊讓我們知道你這個補件到底有沒有道理啊"},{"start":4159.206,"end":4169.291,"text":"好不好主席我要求他們這個官民監督署審查的過程中要求補正的資料跟開會的次數補正的內容送到財政委員會來給每一位委員有一份報告我們會依政府資訊公開法相關的資訊送給財政委員會"},{"start":4176.594,"end":4194.768,"text":"對啦 你就送給本委員會啦好不好可以公開的 可以送的 我們都一定會送所以有一些不能公開不能送的你那些什麼地方 什麼原因不能公開不能送你要住民喔 讓我們能夠了解喔不然我們還不知道你審查為什麼可以審查九計咧從法律通過到現在九計啊這不是三計 不是四計啊"},{"start":4203.458,"end":4220.187,"text":"我們這個非常的注重 所以我們一直瞭解到他整個所以非常嚴苛 手都通不過所以大概我們依法來盡量來公告相關的資訊部長 不要只站在自己的本位啦我為什麼會先問財政部長國家每天在損失錢啊好 謝謝接下來我們請賴昭偉來"},{"start":4238.972,"end":4249.298,"text":"謝謝主席及各位先進的有請財政部的莊部長以及海巡署的謝副署長兩位長官早因為媒體揭露了說你這個查緝私冤的祭司獎金"},{"start":4265.114,"end":4294.181,"text":"每一年八千萬幾乎資訊率百分之百全部領光了結果呢 剛才我也有提到啊結果就發現說已經被逮到了彰化那個地方我們的棄屍就是海巡署底下的這個人 然後你跟這個等一下找他的職業走私人頭有勾串把這個錢都領光光這個事情你們現在到底媒體這樣揭露沒看到你們的反應你們到底查得怎麼樣"},{"start":4298.373,"end":4307.759,"text":"有沒有這回事現在是偵查中偵查中已經好幾天了咧3月11號搜索調查開始之後我們依照規定6月11號跟他現在機下還有一位立刻免職"},{"start":4317.557,"end":4339.932,"text":"那另外兩位呢 因為現在偵查中我們會列為年終考劇淘汰的對象所以涉入的有三位是不是有三位 一位羈押 兩位交保那為了你怎麼封門呢 這個東西歷史所在啊各位報告我們現在 我去年就聽一個規定所有在做檢舉筆錄的時候隊長親自在場"},{"start":4342.264,"end":4369.636,"text":"第二個核發獎金依照規定核發獎金下來之後要頒發的時候要由政風人員在現場不僅要保護他的身份而且要確認檢舉的真實性這個記事員你們的官員的你這個獎金不是什麼機密吧不是機密吧我們所有的那個破壞獎金就是那個查緝獎金最多一個人如果沒有有檢舉的人只有3萬5"},{"start":4370.97,"end":4385.417,"text":"沒有檢舉人的話最多也只有7萬7萬很多耶7萬不是只有很多耶我希望這個事情這個很丟臉海巡署很丟臉我覺得要徹底的把它怎麼樣糾正過來不要"},{"start":4390.82,"end":4416.332,"text":"海巡署啊 拼命講預算不夠啊幹什麼這個不夠那個不夠結果一有機會就這樣子這個撈著撈這個把預算整個吃掉很不好啊 副署長報告委員 報告委員那個台中茶具隊最近三年就申請那個工廠喔 食鹽工廠就這一件171萬所以對廟外界講的議員喔我想這樣對辛苦工作的海巡隊員是不公平的"},{"start":4416.752,"end":4429.317,"text":"好得了啦這一件我們對以後的犯罪絕對凌東正要凌犯罪的好啦你請我啦我們就請那個邱部長一起上來好了邱部長邱部長來"},{"start":4435.339,"end":4438.003,"text":"因為美國的對等關稅的關係一到五月份外銷非常暢旺大家提早出貨 售收有沒有增加"},{"start":4453.472,"end":4470.987,"text":"跟委員報告一到五月份這個部分在比較上可能有一些還沒有太大的意義為什麼因為大宗的稅款就是中所稅跟銀所稅那一般是到五月底結算以及繳納那今年因為延到六月底所以今年的一個數額到五月底的數額"},{"start":4471.912,"end":4498.418,"text":"在比較上沒有太大的相同基礎所以要到六月底才會比較明確那個證交稅呢證交稅是比去年的同期是來的少的少多少少大概有兩百少了兩百二十六億比去年同期一到五月少少的百分比呢少的百分比是百分之十九點五那很多耶對 十九點五 對那因為成交量的關係是好 莊部長你請回了謝謝"},{"start":4499.798,"end":4526.495,"text":"我請教這個邱部長剛才大家都一直在罵這個嘉樂園我也罵嘉樂園嘉樂園你看到喔這個年成長率是百分之八九十這個大家就會想說那標準趕快出來一拖二拖三拖四拖使得我們的稅損減少一百億了有人這樣算過好 現在有一頂帽子戴在你頭上"},{"start":4527.435,"end":4531.957,"text":"有媒體這樣講 邱部長你仔細聽喔他說 衛福部卡關駐長嘉樂園的走私這頂帽子好大一頂喔 你要回應一下吧你們卡關 所以走私 拼命走私"},{"start":4545.051,"end":4559.767,"text":"我想報告召委,Ni防治法當然就是我在衛環委員會當立委的時候當然也討論了很久,那裡面特別又要求要審查所以變成有指定N品健康風險評估審查辦法的一個制定那這是兩年前的事情"},{"start":4563.231,"end":4580.009,"text":"那不管有辦法還有審查委員怎麼找那都找好了就一直在審所以它其實它是有標準的不是沒有標準一直有標準只是說等一下請吳司長可以補充就是據我整個去了解它整個過程就是"},{"start":4581.244,"end":4595.649,"text":"審查委員有意見就變成審查會的意見嘛然後就請業者去補就這樣來來回回然後他其實開會開了五十幾次以上最主要的問題是什麼地方告不定"},{"start":4600.977,"end":4629.48,"text":"應該都是風險評估這個部分風險評估 什麼樣的風險評估是這樣子啦 我要求健康署去把所有的會議能公告的健康署的署長還是副署長都能夠盡量給大家知道你跟我講一下 什麼風險 什麼地方的風險知道問題在哪裡有時候其實是有時候其實我據我了解有時候是業者提出來的就沒有符合上一次的要求所以這樣的一個其實我相信他們也省得很痛苦啦"},{"start":4630.24,"end":4641.952,"text":"那這中間其實大家要...好 你們告訴我們一個啦 大家都很關心的 給我們一個時間表可以嗎什麼時候渴望落日 這個法審定什麼時候 今年可不可以 今年底"},{"start":4643.902,"end":4665.719,"text":"我想我們會因為有很多都已經進入到最後的階段所以應該希望業主能夠在最後的不需要到今年底嗎我們越快越好在三個月可以嗎按照他的規定我們當海在行政手續絕對一定是用最快的速度在處理三個月內可以搞定嗎 三個月"},{"start":4668.814,"end":4689.643,"text":"三個月可以搞定嗎我們希望能夠可以嗎 目標三個月搞定可以嗎我們希望能夠另外其實大家對加拿大的擔心是因為裡面可以放大麻的萃取物一堆什麼之類的有獨架什麼之類的你在這裡是不是可以承諾"},{"start":4692.658,"end":4699.343,"text":"衛福部站在保障國人的健康大麻絕對不可老化可以嗎"},{"start":4701.413,"end":4724.375,"text":"大麻到目前為止也是未來也都不會有開放的這種絕對不會齁因為法務部的次長公開承諾大麻絕對不合法法務部也不同意開放嘛所以法務部就不開放大麻大麻在台灣這個地方不可以合法電子煙"},{"start":4727.998,"end":4749.343,"text":"也是不能合法 是不是是的好 這兩個好 第二個問題我想請教這個AIT不僅僅關心我們的什麼急救保啦還關心我們的血袋不夠啊說我們的血袋啊 裝血那個袋子啊那有什麼了不起台灣沒有做 都是靠進口的部長 你在說什麼為什麼"},{"start":4751.583,"end":4771.44,"text":"為什麼這個血袋你自己拿著做啊?你要怎麼做?我想賴昭偉是算醫療中的很了解醫療的委員啦齁我說實在我也不清楚為什麼當時為什麼血袋都不能做?可能因為他透視的技術或者是說做這個是過去怎麼樣目前我們要做的就是血袋我們要國產"},{"start":4781.158,"end":4793.447,"text":"這是在做的方向,是不是我們那個食藥署食藥署來,食藥署署長副署長賴委員報告,目前學貸的部分已經有一家國產業者在上個月底跟我們申請查案登記什麼時候可以開始申請"},{"start":4795.06,"end":4818.948,"text":"我們儘速審查 因為之前我們已經有跟他做過相關的 順利的話順利的話應該下半年就可以拿到許可證就可以開始有產品出來供應國內醫療院所使用這個實在丟臉啦 我們現在等於是台灣雲露要快打上的樣子 然後都是AIT給我們指指點點我們的這個醫療準備 他說我們的這個急難包也是他來給我們講"},{"start":4821.349,"end":4832.976,"text":"請問你,如果打仗,血漿夠不夠?部長,血漿夠不夠?血漿夠不夠?當然,血漿方面我們會不會,如果是全血,就不敢講,血漿我們已經儲備了相當的一個量多長?血漿多少?"},{"start":4846.753,"end":4855.762,"text":"我們把這個事務室了解以後再報給委員會相關的消煙料呢主要打仗用的最常用的當然是止痛藥消煙料這個"},{"start":4859.273,"end":4877.347,"text":"我相信這個我們衛福部有一個韌性的計畫因為這個是有他有一個很重要的韌性的我們醫事室報告一下好不好醫事室下面的人拜託像周偉報告我們對於這個戰略的本來就有準備十萬人份的外傷的相關的藥品這個是過往就已經準備了有沒有規劃地下醫院"},{"start":4890.7,"end":4908.314,"text":"這個部分也跟周委做一個報告事實上這個我們也在準備我們現在的公立醫院如果有新建的這個建築物我們都要求在地下應該要有準備這個醫療的空間所以只要有新蓋的都要要求地下化是不是我們現在的公立醫院我們都有要求"},{"start":4908.894,"end":4935.981,"text":"好 最後一個來部長 大家很關心的題目中融第一劑斷頭3億 第二劑斷頭5億外務部規定每一劑不可以比去年多因為你們為了要那個點數好看北農6月初已經達到了同去年同一劑的100%之後啊 這都是做功德啦"},{"start":4936.966,"end":4955.063,"text":"事實上對醫務人員就是僅薪啊這個事情啊 這個部長啊 你是表面好看 哇 0.9 0.95對賴總統有交代 可是對醫務人員變相都僅薪耶現在總統沒錢 總統就最好的例子 不用也是啊"},{"start":4956.178,"end":4964.383,"text":"只要跟稍微簡單報告 整理要報告一下中榮來講因為他成長的率其實也太快他成長的7.6% 我們已經給他7.6%了已經高過中區6.0%的標準"},{"start":4971.508,"end":4990.983,"text":"那他因為第一屆領到的錢比去年多領了2.5億那我們希望醫學中心真的要落實分級醫療也這樣讓醫學中心的同仁當然薪水不減低之下減輕負擔這個部分都不會影響到相信都不會影響到現在已經有了我剛剛講了北龍現在6月10號就已經達標了"},{"start":4994.884,"end":5022.056,"text":"後蓋作為都給作為不是不是給作為啦有打折啦我們會還有就是特別強調一下剛性需求譬如說你看重症你看急症這個我們都健保都會補給他所以秉作道才是正道啊有沒有考慮我們要爭取把碳費做補充保費可不可以你要不要這樣主張我想這個都大家一直在研議當中保費真假你想辦法去拿錢啊"},{"start":5024.993,"end":5047.28,"text":"謝謝委員一直把我們健保的資源能夠增加你在這個時空要漲保費不容易啦去漲碳費可以啦我們會多元化而且委員也知道這個政府在公務預算的預支真的也不少啦所以今年是有史以來最高的啦其他你就用書面來給賴召委好不好好的沒問題沒問題好謝謝召委謝謝委員"},{"start":5059.912,"end":5063.174,"text":"下一位 下一位請國共委員 資訊卿謝謝主席 有請兩位部長 莊部長跟邱部長莊部長跟邱部長請"},{"start":5085.333,"end":5088.174,"text":"莊部長我先讓你看一下照片這張照片是放在海關裡頭滿坑滿谷的這一個加熱菸你自己有沒有去看過總共在海關沒收的這一個加熱菸總共有34萬條之多依照5月的統計已經有442萬.54萬包了"},{"start":5108.62,"end":5130.531,"text":"這滿山滿谷的情況底下還有一部分是已經交給地方政府喔有14萬喔放在海關裡頭是20萬喔過期的也銷毀了11萬條喔你看看這麼多的情況底下結果呢事情已經變成是財政部的事情了剛剛有委員說啊如果半年內沒有通過的話菸酒公司的董事長要下台"},{"start":5130.831,"end":5156.092,"text":"但是沒有讓他通過的是你右邊那一位啊是你左邊那一位邱部長啊這個衛福部可以主導這個菸酒公司董事長下台這真是笑話啊另外一個部分這還有什麼後遺症連日本啊都質疑台灣的法規啊會阻礙日客來台啊就因為江若驗的審查延期因為三月份的時候衛福部還說連持有都要罰"},{"start":5157.582,"end":5172.976,"text":"就像毒品一樣那到底家庭合不合法你是誘人犯罪嗎政府誘人犯罪嗎違反信賴保護原則嗎基本的法律素養會沒有嗎還是怠惰審查全部都卡在衛福部我們心頭非常清楚"},{"start":5174.178,"end":5188.689,"text":"部長你也應該希望多一點稅收的來源吧剛剛賴昭偉就說稅差損就差了100億嘛長照3.0需不需要稅收的來源需不需要邱部長有需要嗎"},{"start":5191.565,"end":5219.383,"text":"3.0欸一個月過去一個月補助一萬接下來一個月要補助一萬五所需要的稅金來源要更多結果你這個稅差損就差了一百億部長我們的這個審查標準有其他的比其他的國家還原嗎還是因為人為的因素上一屆的委員剛卸任的這屆委員對外就放出風聲在這一屆裡頭不可能通過而通過了這一屆的委員當中呢到現在還沒有開會審查"},{"start":5221.084,"end":5238.494,"text":"如果說衛福部有這麼大的意見,當初院版就不應該提出,就不應該讓他通過不是嗎?院版裡面當然就是有設立,就是說三讀的時候當然那個法案就有審查的辦法那這個辦法裡面也列出了標準"},{"start":5242.129,"end":5262.65,"text":"任期那個時候也聘請了委員 但任期是兩年嘛那現在到期了 我們現在也換了新的委員兩年 年齡限都沒有通過審查標準有別人家演嗎你就比較其他國家就好了嘛你不要制定一個自己的標準嘛很多國家都已經合法化 那個要要去抄也很容易抄好不好有需要搞成這麼久嗎"},{"start":5266.101,"end":5294.896,"text":"跟委員報告目前全球只有兩個國家在審查一個是美國一個是台灣其他的國家是沒有審查直接合併就可以上市對一般的那沒有審查也會有一個標準嘛那我們標準為什麼這麼嚴我們審查為什麼這麼嚴我們為什麼拖了兩年多為什麼十家沒有一個通過開了五十幾次會都沒有通過為什麼我們就是依據美國FDA的一個上市前審查的一個標準來做相關的審查作業所以說我們的標準是依照美國是"},{"start":5295.416,"end":5310.886,"text":"完全一樣口味都相同幾乎都相同幾乎都相同那我們拿回來的這些加熱煙有沒有美國煙目前在美國也還沒有上市那目前這些煙是從哪邊來他們在全球有各地方不同的"},{"start":5313.815,"end":5335.203,"text":"不同的國家那我們既然已經合法化了我們難道不能一定要比照美國的標準是不是你現在意思是這樣嗎我們按照那個規定跟流程還有相關業者需要準備的相關的一些資料來做審查這業者會不清楚嗎業者都清楚我們也說過很多次的說明會如果是標準的問題那你就把標準公布出來嘛"},{"start":5337.205,"end":5365.248,"text":"那你就把標準給我們委員會到底問題出在哪裡到底是行政怠惰還是標準過嚴還是業者不從我們把這整個過程只要依法能夠公告的我們一定來報告委員會剛剛那個委員趕快啦那五十幾次會議會議紀錄給我們啊讓我們清楚知道到底什麼原因嘛可以嗎好的我們會把那個依法可以公告送給大家應該解決問題部長你還是要解決啦拖了不是辦法啦你看海關放了三十四萬條在這邊啊"},{"start":5368.291,"end":5380.024,"text":"對其如山啦其實工作同仁都是依法在辦依法依規定可以搞了兩年多好 接下來我問一下那個莊部長莊部長我讓你看一下數字"},{"start":5386.19,"end":5405.558,"text":"這個中國啤酒的問題經濟部在4月28號的時候就已經對中國啤酒的這個傾銷造成台灣產業已經造成傷害了根據最新的統計中國啤酒的市佔率在今年的第一季已經來到36%你知道台啤目前的市佔率有多少嗎"},{"start":5406.869,"end":5432.679,"text":"那我知道台啤的市占率現在在下降當中那原來都是超過五成以上的現在也在下降對 目前一直下降當中已經下降到四成點九一啦跟中國進來的36相差不遠啦比較於去年啊這一個還當了6%已經接近死亡交叉了恐怕在一年之內啊就會被中國啤酒給超越了"},{"start":5433.839,"end":5439.644,"text":"在這種情況底下我們現在要可能會祭出臨時反請銷稅嘛對不對要70天之內對不對對 是的我們這個部分因為經濟部已經在剛剛如同委員說在4月30完成初步的產業損害調查那麼70天以內我們要完成所謂的請銷初步調查而且我們還會送關稅稅率審議委員會小組所以最晚我們在7月9號之前就會去公告"},{"start":5463.343,"end":5466.187,"text":"公告初步的一個調查結果7月9號之前會公布是否會在課徵臨時稅臨時課徵反省銷稅是的7月9號之前臨時反省銷稅7月9號之前它裡頭有一個條款說有必要的時候延後30天應該不會延後了吧"},{"start":5482.505,"end":5494.511,"text":"這個部分我們的關務署一直非常積極而且積極的在進行當中然後會所以不會延後一起做一起依照這個期限來做不會再延後不會再延後好不會再延後70天內7月9號好那你知道喔"},{"start":5498.293,"end":5520.407,"text":"現階段他們在這個比較於去年五月多進來59% 接近六成那為什麼會多進來呢你去看右邊這一張表格價格調漲通知 請提前囤貨看到沒有雪山 百威 Corona Bar 等等而且是從七月一號開始他們要全面調漲價格請把握補貨機會搶購現價庫存看到沒有 這叫囤貨"},{"start":5529.074,"end":5555.016,"text":"進口越多 囤貨越多對台灣的這個啤酒產業者傷害越大我就要問啊這個科增這個依照平衡稅及反請銷稅科增實施辦法第25條之一第二項第二款科增臨時反請銷稅可以追溯既往至90天前這樣的行為你認為是不是應該追溯 部長"},{"start":5555.683,"end":5577.183,"text":"有這樣的規定 那可以由業者來提出申請業者又要申訴一次 你才決定要不要柯真這很明顯是囤貨的行為啊這很明顯啊 就是在對抗你的反傾銷的行為啊你還要問業者 你主管機關沒有判斷能力嗎"},{"start":5578.882,"end":5583.183,"text":"我們回溯課程法律上是有規定要件我們是從展開調查的前三個月跟後三個月來比較有沒有因為我們展開調查大量的囤積"},{"start":5601.067,"end":5604.571,"text":"數字上會說話數字我們會再調查很明顯啊是 那也跟委員報告抓到啦基本上他要申請要課環境交稅的時候同時要跟我們申請說他要不要臨時課徵那你覺得這有沒有明顯這個行為有明顯 你自己看嘛"},{"start":5619.21,"end":5630.989,"text":"從委員的這個圖表數字來看我們要看他展開調查之前三個月跟後三個月的基期的一個變化這我們回去會看數據你們好好調查一下 如果必要時應該追溯對不對 署長"},{"start":5635.341,"end":5650.09,"text":"我們還是要看他是不是符合要件我們還是要看他有沒有符合回溯要件來 部長我再跟你講一個那個假嘴有慣犯真的是慣不怕今天就談菸酒的問題你看有一個零性慣犯"},{"start":5651.01,"end":5675.416,"text":"他在2016的時候施設地下這一個工廠製造假酒被判刑五年還是因為火災喔從2022到2027結果呢緩刑時間還沒到2021呢又賣假酒因為組織犯罪才被判刑兩年今年 今年又因為犯罪集團的顧問繼續賣假酒又被抓到了總共三次"},{"start":5678.036,"end":5698.165,"text":"違反了什麼 違反了這個組織犯罪法 它是因為組織犯罪而被犯罪的喔還有包括這個商標法喔 還有其他的文書罪喔 那我就要問啊這個是不是啦 我們的菸酒管理法當中呢 太弱 或者是我們食品安全衛生法"},{"start":5698.965,"end":5722.471,"text":"管理法太鬆兩位部長兩位部長這個假酒會害死人啊連酒瓶一瓶 連酒瓶喔都可以賣錢還到處收購因為它被扣留了兩萬瓶空瓶子兩位部長你們是沒有在喝酒啦我相信你們身體都非常的健康啦但是問題呢 國人也要健康啦"},{"start":5723.817,"end":5734.069,"text":"怎麼處理屢犯屢抓再屢犯兩位部長 莊部長要先回答還是邱部長先回答"},{"start":5740.052,"end":5752.799,"text":"我想這個部分應該是很不應該有這樣的情況那因為酒不算食品啦不算食品但是財務財政部在做所以說跟你都沒有關係那財政部來回答來財政部要怎麼處理"},{"start":5756.256,"end":5767.381,"text":"我想這個部分對國民的健康非常重要但是因為現在的菸酒管理法裡面原來對於就是說有刑罰但這個部分早我已經站起來了我做現場的要求那個法該檢討的檢討一個月給本席一份報告"},{"start":5771.483,"end":5781.052,"text":"是不是要專案欺查齁你也是做一個考量啦衡量一下也給本席一個報告好不好專案普遍的現象是不可以啦好不好OK 謝謝"},{"start":5795.595,"end":5808.481,"text":"主席 在場委員 先列席政務機關長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士 先生我們先請邱部長和石耀署的王滬署長那待會我們就請海巡署的謝滬署長以及我們財政部的莊部長和國庫署的胡瑞署的王滬署長國員好"},{"start":5817.554,"end":5846.445,"text":"部長,剛剛我覺得賴委員賴昭偉的質詢非常精彩COVID-19之前台灣有辦法製造目前的這種口罩嗎?有沒有能力?有沒有在做?COVID-19之前有嗎?世界主要的口罩跟誰買的?世界上主要的這種COVID-19防護口罩當時都是跟中國買的啦後來台灣趕快的進口那樣的一個表面噴劑我們才有辦法自製嘛,對不對?血袋是不是一個比較低階的產品?"},{"start":5848.308,"end":5874.585,"text":"全世界大概集中在哪幾家工廠生產 你知道嗎副組長跟他講一下 副長剛剛委員報告全世界主要是日本 美國跟歐洲有在生產是的所以整個全球化經濟的結果大概這些醫材如果不是很通用性的醫材有些就是少數的國家 少數的工廠在製造但是剛剛委員召委的諮詢前台灣要有備戰的準備包括我們的"},{"start":5875.868,"end":5886.162,"text":"部立院的地下室要做緊急的傷患修製包括我們這些會需要用到的醫材要趕快自主籌措 自主證到能力部長能不能做到"},{"start":5888.043,"end":5912.215,"text":"剛剛醫事室也有報告齁在我們準備的藥材、醫材都有準備十萬人份的一個急救那另外當我們準備這個時候呢你要想到什麼?去化因為啊這些東西都有保存期限的所以你解決你的緊急存量之後你要思考到定期的推陳出新的去化當然這是一定只是管理藥品一定要的事我們給你一個報告給你一個書面報告好那我們先問謝副組長謝副組長"},{"start":5917.747,"end":5936.558,"text":"請問 目前我們看一下 為什麼金門海域走私日漸長久 我們看到新聞啊遊艇喔 金門的遊艇會到中國海域走私喔把台灣的一些東西 在非法運送電子產品運到中國去啊還有什麼 澳洲的龍蝦怎麼到中國的是透過金門馬祖從台灣這邊把龍蝦進到中國去啊"},{"start":5940.8,"end":5967.213,"text":"包括這些顯卡科技產品這些包括無人機的晶片都用漁船搬貨副組長你們有沒有抓到過我們抓到非常多非常多嗎是所以這是一個嚴重的問題我們往下看接下來我們看到這兩天這個是密集的報導灰色海域變成了中國大中國的走私產地越容易來我們看看越靠近中國越容易"},{"start":5967.913,"end":5990.466,"text":"基本上是台灣的漁民跟中國下單,他們在福建養成成背,綁成浮球在海上丟包,馬祖的漁民領獲,在馬祖海域綻放,然後變成台灣的牡蠣,有沒有這樣的情況?馬祖沒有超過列案,有嘛,馬祖本來的產量是148公噸,2023年,結果去年馬祖向往台灣的牡蠣多少?1500噸啊,你們不覺得可疑嗎?"},{"start":5993.991,"end":6011.854,"text":"有沒有跟農業部去查一下到底馬達族哪些人在雅牡蠣這不僅跟地方漁業主管機關也跟中央主管機關我們都協調過我們在查計畫全力以赴另外呢我們希望從源頭管理包括產銷履歷等等是的那產銷履歷那就是農業部的事金馬的海域"},{"start":6013.537,"end":6024.356,"text":"兩邊共同去管理的海域就成為兩邊走私的一個漏洞我們想要看現在我們看到今夏海域有一個違規的磕棚是不是是現在金門縣政府有辦法去拆嗎"},{"start":6026.514,"end":6045.665,"text":"這個是非法漁業行為我們建議金門縣政府要依照漁業法聽到沒有 你們建議金門縣政府海巡組可以去執行嗎 不是嘛拆客架不是你們的事情嗎我們負責漁業界入船好 你們負責漁業界的入船包括說拆除的話 有安全顧慮的話我們全程戒護 都沒有問題所以現在執法的困難在哪裡"},{"start":6046.805,"end":6059.773,"text":"跟委員報告這個距離剛好它核損的地方各2公頃96跟100年各2公頃只有4公頃剛好在我們檳榔嶼就是在淨線水域線上就在旁邊距離廈門一點西鄉是不是影響到我們的國安是"},{"start":6063.53,"end":6087.936,"text":"那淨線水域如果模糊是不是走資越容易所以我們強制執法 嚴正執法但是你執法還要法是怎麼定我們來看一下現在有在野黨立委主張兩岸協商金馬的淨制水域要內海化怎麼說前項限制或禁止水域由海洋委員公告之但是他是這樣他把淡化組言到說這些地方"},{"start":6089.605,"end":6106.733,"text":"要跟陸方透過協商定出陸方承認的我國司法行政有效水準是這樣嗎你覺得可以接受嗎我們不同意因為這個案子涉及到國家安全國防策略還有區域的區域的發展那這部分不是單單執法而已是"},{"start":6107.153,"end":6124.509,"text":"是 所以我們看到在野黨的他的關係文化立法理由說1949年以來的內戰狀態其實我們解決洞刊之後就沒有什麼內戰的問題了這個法治觀念根本不懂好 我們來看一下兩岸協商禁制水域會擴大還是縮小目前的做法是國防部公告禁制水域 海軍組執法 對不對是"},{"start":6126.05,"end":6145.866,"text":"如果未來照在野黨的法案通過的話,兩岸協商禁限制水域,然後要有陸委會公告海巡組執法。你覺得目前這個點,是目前在我們現有的禁限制水域後,我們海警,對岸的海警船入侵的軌跡點,至少目前還維持著他們不敢越線。"},{"start":6146.673,"end":6162.478,"text":"如果未來禁限制水域縮小的話或對方不跟你結帳的話你覺得會面臨到什麼樣的情況?這個涉及到國家主權的問題這不是可以協商陸方可以得來的所以我們堅持這是我們國家主權區的展現所以我們看到了"},{"start":6162.958,"end":6192.358,"text":"如果說在現在我們有法律的授權之下我們海巡署還可以維持這樣的海域我們國家的主權如果這個上面的法律更動了海巡署恐怕沒有辦法執法了我們更很難去打擊兩岸的走私是不是是好那我現在再問接下來請財政部長準備來我們看一下反海上走私海巡準備好了嗎有沒有看過這樣的一個國外媒體報導用科技的無人船來協助我們做這些海域有高風險海域的這個巡邏"},{"start":6193.498,"end":6198.3,"text":"我們不僅在特別特別條例草案我們爭取兩百六十億的經費我們在公共建設也同樣的我們也爭取經費那麼以後不僅是要強化岸海健身設備航外線也包括立體徵收無人機"},{"start":6221.047,"end":6243.362,"text":"還有水面的無人載具所以結論兩個請您承諾請海軍委員運用無人載具強化我國禁限制水域的執法方案可以嗎是包括海底電纜全體等等還有對於金馬海水域走私猖獗的情況我們應該用無人載具去反制可以嗎是我都略不考量是謝謝好來我們接下來那個請我們財政部"},{"start":6253.477,"end":6266.183,"text":"這些新聞事件啊告訴我們一個社會現象很多年輕的家長你看很看到的虐嬰對不對幼兒園的性侵補習班不減反增這說明了什麼"},{"start":6267.458,"end":6280.557,"text":"所以目前我們現在的家長在養育子女的過程當中從三歲之前的托嬰到三到六歲的幼兒照顧到六到十二歲這些課後的照顧是不是都是我們現在家長越來越依賴"},{"start":6282.67,"end":6304.895,"text":"對於雙新家庭來說,這個孩童怎麼樣有一個安全的一個地區所以政府有沒有義務責任要來推動,協助家長減輕他們負擔是的,對,那我們其實這幾年來也都做了蠻多的相關的措施為什麼我是問你,不是問邱部長,因為這個議題邱部長很熟悉,但是莊部長你要了解,苦民所苦往下看"},{"start":6305.834,"end":6321.486,"text":"所以當我們看到勞動部已經在昨天在修改原意彈性的月薪假讓企業可以臨時排班也防止企業拒絕家長他能夠照顧嬰幼兒而我們目前財政部我們的學齡前的特別扣除額擴大到6歲對不對"},{"start":6323.567,"end":6340.628,"text":"這最近財政部做的嘛是不是那是不是說六歲以下的第一名15萬第二名再加50%是不是對第二名第三名都是但是我們說到了未來幼托和子女育兒的對子女的要求不是只有三歲之前對不對"},{"start":6342.423,"end":6363.906,"text":"也不是只有六歲之前對不對當然孩子是很成長的過程現在我們看到市場的趨勢這些課後的安親班如雨後春筍的取代了過去我們考高中大學的聯考補習班說明了一件事情12歲以下的學齡兒童成為我們目前年輕父母他最大的負擔你同意嗎"},{"start":6364.97,"end":6378.05,"text":"是確實育兒的經費是比較好那政府如何怎麼分攤照顧6到12歲的呢邱部長他想講不用了我們都做很多政府呢就是我們學年兒童國家跟你分攤一起照顧財政部可以做什麼莊部長"},{"start":6379.224,"end":6407.194,"text":"我想財政部的地方當然就是除了稅負的部分之外不是除了稅負的部分就是稅負的部分來清理真的這部分還有我們的那個國有財產的相關的提供都有各種優惠的措施國有財產的土地要來釋出這是一個啦但是要知道目前年輕家長他托育的需求大概都跟我們的國有地不是那麼接近所以最好做的最容易做的就是特別扩足額特別扩足額可不可以擴張到12歲"},{"start":6409.775,"end":6438.12,"text":"委員這個建議我們要做一個評估是做一個評估來現在對不起本來想讓邱部長休息一下邱部長你們是不是有呼籲家有未滿12歲的兒童要做到一步二要不要讓孩子獨處抽空陪孩子每天抱抱孩子有沒有這是很重要的事情那我們財政部我們沒有辦法幫家長陪孩子沒辦法抱抱孩子但是我們財政部是可以做到讓家長"},{"start":6439.451,"end":6462.232,"text":"避免孩子獨處送到6到12歲送到客戶安親班的時候他這樣的費用可不可以國家幫他減負擔莊部長我想這個部分相關的一些經費以及用什麼樣的方式支出都需要審慎的評估是的財政部左手右手啦你左手收稅右手交給衛福部擴大我們的客戶照顧擴大我們的"},{"start":6463.527,"end":6480.247,"text":"托育的費用對不對所以邱部長你現在放在托育政府照顧協助這樣托育的錢是不是財政部去籌來的是是嗎那如果要你不斷的擴大你的照顧範圍另外一方是財政部給你租稅優惠讓我們家有12歲以下看最後一頁"},{"start":6481.331,"end":6507.563,"text":"是不是研議將幼兒的學前特別扣除額擴大為兒童特別扣除額不是幼兒扣除額適用年齡擴大到12歲以下並提交評估報告可不可以提交評估報告喔 要隨時評估喔是是多久以前可以 多久之內可以我想至少兩個月吧給我們兩個月的時間兩個月的時間 看看明年報索得稅會來得及好不好兩位部長支持這個計畫吧 支持這個方案吧邱部長 支持不支持"},{"start":6508.624,"end":6519.456,"text":"站在兒童照顧的立場我們當然是很好的謝謝 莊部長聽到邱部長的話沒有你不幫忙減這個稅你要多付錢給他 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝莊委員的執行 下一位請賴會員召回執行 請"},{"start":6533.468,"end":6549.66,"text":"謝謝主席 先請財政部部長財政部村部長官務署官務署的彭署長還有國民健康署國健署的護署長我也好署長 署長 護署長部長早安我想 這個部長你們家有沒有人抽菸"},{"start":6559.813,"end":6580.746,"text":"家有人抽煙抽電子煙還是抽紙煙紙煙紙煙齁那你想想看這個電子煙已經這麼普及了可是我們一直都沒有辦法那個主席暫停一下齁那個我的電腦跳不過去主席暫停一下出來"},{"start":6594.221,"end":6595.667,"text":"是我們的壞掉還是他們壞掉"},{"start":6615.956,"end":6637.841,"text":"主席我們繼續啦我想部長在這裡我要特別請教你一下就是說當你們家你的四周圍有這樣的一個抽菸的一個人口的時候那我們事實上有很大的一個困境因為我們抽水抽不到這個電子菸還是加熱菸"},{"start":6639.481,"end":6641.764,"text":"這個2023年通過的2023年通過的1月12號通過 已經是790天了那所有這個"},{"start":6649.864,"end":6674.827,"text":"就是我們的菸的一個稅戶跟那個健康福利間我們在這裡面臨到這樣的一個困境那部長 你有沒有什麼樣的一個看法竟然就是說我們之前的幾位委員一直遲遲的在質疑就是說我們的台酒公司送了五次送了五次的一個資料然後這五次全部都被退回是什麼樣的一個原因呢"},{"start":6676.947,"end":6700.741,"text":"我們那個菸酒公司他確實有送件去申請跟衛護部申請所謂的要製加熱菸不過因為被退五次那相關的細節內容可能是我們國健署比較清楚國健署署長來你來說明為什麼台酒會被退了五次我不管另外那六家公司我就管台酒公司為什麼被你退了五次"},{"start":6702.101,"end":6719.637,"text":"他寫的很差嗎?他的計畫寫的很差嗎?我們審查的最大的風險評估的標準那其實就是說所有的指定制菸品它的風險不得高於國內指驗的一個比較如果足以證明這樣子的方式所以台酒公司送出去"},{"start":6721.819,"end":6740.149,"text":"台酒公司送出去的所有的資料都不合乎你們的標準不是說所有 至少說他已經那持續啊 你持續給他退了五次啊那當然 因為他沒有辦法說服大家認同這個部分沒有辦法說服 我覺得你已經不知道社會的問題存在哪裡"},{"start":6741.576,"end":6764.067,"text":"上一屆我在衛環委員會 電子菸是我當召委的時候通過的結果2023年3月22號要去執行它 到現在完全沒有辦法執行為什麼我不請衛福部部長上來因為衛福部部長當初也是我們衛福部的委員其實我都認了幾次都會"},{"start":6766.483,"end":6779.491,"text":"為什麼這些問題存在哪裡我相信所有的人在現場所有的人大家都搞不清楚只有你最清楚只有你最清楚問題出在哪裡為什麼讓這個這麼簡單的一個問題然後這個社會的一個對立面這麼大為什麼不要去處理呢"},{"start":6788.925,"end":6813.502,"text":"你說你的委屈在哪裡 說給我們聽聽看我想這不是委屈 該行政來的時候 該有行政來的時候我們必須依法保障民眾最大的立法院那所以你能力很差 經過790天了你沒有辦法去執行它 為什麼審查的過程中一直都是要最完備最完整的情況下以民眾的健康而為之那最完備完整 三讀通過了當初在立法院的一個送案就是不夠完備"},{"start":6815.257,"end":6841.58,"text":"是不是這樣子 我可以這樣講咧不是這樣說 因為售錢給我們做這樣的審查就要證證審查委員對於相關的風險評估的一個審查我非常謝謝賴思寶召委今天排這個案子啊我跟你說齁 這個對我們執政黨的委員來講我們是很委屈啊 我們不知道怎麼樣去要求國建署啊"},{"start":6842.923,"end":6864.458,"text":"國監署每一次在質詢的過程當中你同樣都是回答相同的問題你看連我們的台酒公司在上一屆換了就是跟這一屆是不同的一個董事長我們竟然要賭上這個台酒公司在半年如果沒有辦法通過的話執政黨的委員要他辭職這個有道理嗎"},{"start":6871.804,"end":6876.47,"text":"當然是沒有道理啊 大家不好意思賣力啊是你的問題啊不是嗎我覺得這個讓我們很困境欸怎麼辦"},{"start":6885.546,"end":6901.34,"text":"我想我們都會全力來協助吳相關的那也要依歸來辦理三個業內喔三個業內你可以提出我想我們會做最後的一個審查確認那也希望業者能夠把相關完整的資訊給我們最後的一個確認的審查要多久來 部長你回答"},{"start":6908.955,"end":6920.825,"text":"第一個我想整個我希望健康署我們要求他把開會比如說委員為什麼投票不會通過他的理由以及缺乏的"},{"start":6922.089,"end":6945.719,"text":"資料到底在哪裡,一次一次說清楚一次一次說清楚,不長三個月內我覺得不能說,不能讓社會不瞭解你看嘛,你完全扣不到稅,然後你還要花到那麼多的一個社會的一個成本,那去抓他我想我們應該清楚的來瞭解這個過程,才讓全民知道說為什麼要這麼,走得這麼"},{"start":6948.481,"end":6971.972,"text":"走得這麼辛苦是不是要到790天到現在大家還這麼嚴肅的再來討論這些問題是你的審查卡關還是你其他的一個問題部長我們應該去面對這些問題我們不能把那個稽查的成本積高不下你讓這一些這一些其他的一個部會的這個社會成本是這麼高的沒道理啊"},{"start":6972.312,"end":6986.617,"text":"好 我們會站在人民健康以及它規法的規定之下那個絕對是馬不停蹄來處理你的馬不停蹄要多久 三個月可以嗎我們很期盼三個月能夠"},{"start":6987.83,"end":6993.977,"text":"不要期盼我們用確定的因為這個是委員會啦所以委員也必須要拜託拜託業者能夠提供我們也希望業者真的是如果針對審查會提出的意見能夠"},{"start":7003.809,"end":7025.556,"text":"符合就好像我們在科技上,科什麼的,我們就把它補好就好嘛你已經準備兩年,題目都給你們啊我是站在比較一個公營的立場來看,其實行政單位也是努力那專家學者你不得,因為當時兩年前就請這些專家學者"},{"start":7026.076,"end":7050.284,"text":"他們有他們的各種堅持或者是專業這個我們也尊重這樣的一個模式我們必須要去做修正當然已經很多的這個社會的聲音還有很多的委員在這裡提出了這麼多不同面向的一個問題你應該要去正視如果你再繼續不正視的話下一次我就再談完全了解我們非常正視"},{"start":7052.705,"end":7057.067,"text":"謝謝部長我們那個彭署長署長來 請彭署長彭署長官務署的彭署長委員好彭署長我們就是這整個官務署有幾個這個幾個官下面有四個官區有四個官區哪一個官區它的規模是最大的"},{"start":7082.439,"end":7102.367,"text":"以人數來說是台北關一千兩百多人那我請教你現在台北關他所有在倉庫裡頭存放的那個寄放的物品最多的是哪一樣的一個物品目前加熱菸有二十萬條是比較多加熱菸有二十萬條那啤酒啤酒中國進口的啤酒多不多"},{"start":7110.766,"end":7121.862,"text":"啤酒扣押的應該不算多中國進口的啤酒多不多他洗禪地的多不多好那我再請問你太陽能板多不多"},{"start":7124.088,"end":7140.847,"text":"都有那所以就是從加熱菸到這個那個中國啤酒到那個太陽能板跟委員報告扣押的沒有中國大陸的啤酒禮拜三我們到你的台北關來考察"},{"start":7141.388,"end":7164.711,"text":"好 我們真正的去看到了 到底就是我們整個關務署台北關存在的一個情況你到底是換了多少這個中國啤酒 換了多少太陽能板換了多少加熱菸 可以嗎老闆 委員 那個現在台應該是到基隆關因為那個中國大陸的啤酒是從基隆關好 那就去基隆關跟台北關 兩個關都看"},{"start":7167.872,"end":7190.161,"text":"兩個關都看 好不好 趕快回去準備幹什麼準備就怎麼準備有沒有問題沒有問題 謝謝財政部部長我想今天本來要跟你討論一些那個煙間的一個用途當然我們知道就是說長期以來這個煙間的用途跟那個煙稅的那個"},{"start":7192.102,"end":7207.966,"text":"用途其實是有差異性的那倒是特別要在這裡就是說煙尖是不是夠那每一個人抽煙的人口其實一直在減少那當然我們知道煙尖是不夠的這個是來補助健保健保的一個他在一個總額總額的預算裡頭不足的地方那所以就是說沒有關係這個我們在私下就是說煙尖那個撥保健保的一個"},{"start":7220.489,"end":7243.534,"text":"強化健保的一個制度我們私下再跟你要一些資料你再提供給我們我們當然也看到國健署在今年也面臨到一個困境它已經開始去動用爭取公務的預算31億我們希望抽菸的人口變少我們也希望就是說"},{"start":7244.814,"end":7255.403,"text":"這些抽菸的人口要共同的負擔我們國人的一個健康那在這裡是本席今天所做的一個質詢的內容 謝謝好 謝謝蔣委員我們提供資料 謝謝好 那麼向委員報告我們質詢到陳育成委員之後才休息喔我們現在請李坤勝委員繼續質詢"},{"start":7269.654,"end":7293.854,"text":"還有藉這個機會我要公開的要肯定我們的邱部長兩次在這個委員會他不是我們委員會的但是他都親自到我們本委員會我們是可以來肯定我們的邱部長我們希望邱部長都可以親自到了我們希望財務會的"},{"start":7297.897,"end":7300.6,"text":"謝謝主席請財政部莊部長 衛福部邱部長兩位部長請"},{"start":7318.051,"end":7334.801,"text":"兩位部長好 這個卓院長有宣示長照3.0明年要上路那我們看一下 按照衛福部的估算 今年長照支出是343億 明年增加到469億按照長照法的規定 我們的長照支出來自遺產稅 菸稅跟菸捐"},{"start":7337.583,"end":7360.729,"text":"那可是我們看一下啦我們先看一下這個長照基金長照基金呢今年前五個月呢一株長照基金呢四大主要稅收呢來自房地合一稅、菸稅、遺產稅跟證語稅那其實呢都減少了我們看一下房地合一稅呢這個前五個月呢是撥入了140億但是呢跟去年同期減少了44億年減24%然後呢菸稅菸稅也減少了"},{"start":7368.371,"end":7381.497,"text":"這個雖然預租107億但是年減1.7%這個是長照基金 房地合約稅跟菸稅這個剝落金額都有減少好 那我們再看一下下一張表"},{"start":7383.196,"end":7396.18,"text":"這個走失嚴重那也造成這個我們長照的財源短少我們從比較110年到113年110年的煙捐跟煙稅有780億然後到113年只剩下684億然後這3年下來短少了97億那請教一下莊部長好了這個煙捐跟煙稅少了97億是好事還是壞事"},{"start":7414.245,"end":7436.014,"text":"有兩種來看,第一個就是說如果吸菸人口減少的話,那當然就是減少那如果是因為非法,就是所謂的私菸,私菸情況沒有能夠查緝到的話以至於這樣的一個稅或捐沒有能夠課徵到的話,那就是不是好事那部長你認為是哪一種可能性比較大?我們的吸菸率有下降嗎?"},{"start":7437.474,"end":7457.805,"text":"我想這個部分都有,因為現在大家對健康意識也比較強那當然我覺得在相關的一些健康的宣導上也一直都努力在做那你認為走私嚴不嚴重?走私的部分呢,不管是我們海關也好,還有這個地方政府也好,都加強的查緝"},{"start":7459.586,"end":7469.73,"text":"對 那我按照你們的資料啦這個113年你們查獲的這個菸品件數有1120萬包市價7億然後112年呢 查獲了這個1747萬包市價8.59億可見走私是非常嚴重的好 那再請教一下這個我們邱部長好了那走私"},{"start":7489.249,"end":7513.165,"text":"加熱菸很嚴重 按照財政部給的資料113年違法加熱菸比116年相比增加了130萬包然後到本年5月 查獲的違法加熱菸與去年同期相比又增加了47萬包 接近48萬包"},{"start":7514.306,"end":7529.117,"text":"然後呢 加熱菸走勢這麼嚴重呢有一個很大原因 我想剛剛很多委員都提到了是不是我們現在對於這個加熱菸的健康風險評估的審查一直遲遲沒有結果這個是不是造成一個很大的原因"},{"start":7531.547,"end":7560.603,"text":"好 我想報告委員我想這個是有相關有相關對 部長你有認為有相關好 那這個為什麼我看一下你們資料啦現在是有有六家進入健康風險評估的十次審查是不是六家有六家進入十次審查那我看它後面都是進度不一樣進度有點不一樣對 進度不一樣我看後面都是打三角形打三角形就是審查中嘛"},{"start":7561.65,"end":7581.85,"text":"那請問一下這個打三角形的審查大概是審查多久了這個最長是審查多久了目前最長的審查就是第一家比較完整的審查他是從112年的6月底送進來的就等於是7月的時候送到112年那今年是114年"},{"start":7583.652,"end":7606.74,"text":"那所以你們審查這個沒有Date Line嗎?就可以無限期審查下去嗎?我們原則上是希望6個月加6個月但是會扣除中間業者在補件的時間因為那是屬於業者他的不是我們審理的時間所以要給予業者更寬容的時間那所以6加6這個看起來也是超過期限啊但是我剛剛提到的業者在補件的時間那一段要扣掉"},{"start":7607.62,"end":7622.629,"text":"因為這個都是我原先審查那其實這個我們不會特別去給你一個期限說你一定要哪個時候審查出來但是這期限也拖太久我問一下邱部長你會不會覺得這期限拖了有點久"},{"start":7625.12,"end":7645.297,"text":"我想最主要是如何能夠確保風險的問題這很重要 當然大家有些看法我是認為啦 署長 YES 或 NO 我覺得就講清楚我們作為行政機關 YES 或 NO 我覺得講清楚最怕拖 你不合格你就退掉"},{"start":7646.505,"end":7671.892,"text":"立決合格就讓他進來讓他進來的好處當然就是這個煙稅跟煙捐其實也增加了這個本來要課的稅本來就應該要課只是因為現在你們沒有讓他合法所以就變成一種走私結果大家也在抽加熱菸但是稅也收不到現在的困境就是這樣子所以我是請教一下邱部長你認為"},{"start":7673.274,"end":7679.329,"text":"這個從去年112年就有開始審查到現在也超過兩年的時間你有覺得這個審查時間有稍微久了一點了嗎"},{"start":7682.194,"end":7703.828,"text":"當然審查的時間是一件事情另外就審查的流程是不是有延宕這部分因為可能要有給他恢復的一個時間這個我都同意風險評估這個是法律規定我也同意全民的健康我也都同意我們不會讓行政部門有延宕的"},{"start":7704.788,"end":7726.326,"text":"但是我是覺得說我們也不要當鴕鳥因為你明明知道說現在加熱鹽其實在使用加熱鹽的很多從三個方面來那個第一個就是說審查委員的共識把那些規定啊標準大家寫了一個更多的共識第二個在法規這個部長啊這個我都沒有意見我的意思是說因為"},{"start":7728.788,"end":7751.46,"text":"你既然有一個風險評估但是呢 就是你yes或no你要跟人家講清楚就是你不要懸在那邊你懸在那邊 我跟你講過了嘛這個走私的照常走私我們該扣的稅也扣不到然後呢 那你就審查在pending那邊那也沒有什麼動作我認為行政機關不能這樣子啦"},{"start":7752.261,"end":7767.25,"text":"好 我想我們一定站在人民的健康以及社會的一個像走私 如果因為這樣真的是形成走私那就是不是一個好的狀況我們這也是一個社會的問題 這也要解決我們政府就是要解決問題的"},{"start":7768.354,"end":7792.272,"text":"我想任何問題出來我們就來解決請委員放心我們一定用最快的努力最大的努力來解決這一個大家所關心的問題所以今天不是是催促你說你一個月兩個月三個月就會要有結果出來我們會盡快開相關的會議絕對不會delay任何的行程因為拖延拖太久了就變成是說我們行政機關的問題"},{"start":7793.473,"end":7817.32,"text":"所以我一直覺得說你如果覺得說那你交出來的報告不好不對你就退回去你就隨便發個X也可以嘛因為兩年前那個時候我也是未還的立法委員我很清楚這怎麼組成的那都按照辦法在做可是一旦用這種審查的方式其實它的困難度就會真的會增加很多像美國的第一個Amin審"},{"start":7820.202,"end":7845.124,"text":"美國審第一個加熱菸審了四年多所以你覺得兩年還好就對了我們不是依那個為那是因為美國他剛才是審那其實我們是有這個基礎在審其實應該不用到四年的時間吧對不對所長你的意思應該是這樣子吧我已經從一直跟他報告我們一定用好意到社會的問題好意到整個"},{"start":7846.951,"end":7866.206,"text":"民情還有考慮到專業考慮到人民的健康的綜合下我們一定依法來辦理這個我覺得都有共識啦全民的健康那也顧慮到有社會的共識然後呢我們也希望說合法化之後呢我們的菸捐菸稅能夠增加因為現在長照的確也需要"},{"start":7867.787,"end":7893.922,"text":"這個其實都支持但是我的問點或是很多的立委的重點其實在於說因為你在那邊不上不下太久了那個三角形已經放很久了嘛那你也不給個答案我認為這樣不對你覺得不合格你就退回去那你如果覺得可以你覺得你覺得可以那你就讓它合法化我覺得應該是這樣子做才對啦我覺得不能夠不能夠一直Pending在那邊然後你也不做任何的決定啊是好 那我問一下這個莊部長"},{"start":7897.033,"end":7922.592,"text":"我們是不是有發個文啊給這個菸商啊請教一下說為持續提升茶器、菸品含加熱菸的效能還有防堵網路販賣違法菸品請菸商提出卓借與建議這個文的用意在哪裡啊我想對於茶器對我們精進茶器不遺餘力那當然這個部分我們也想聽一下他們的一些意見"},{"start":7924,"end":7944.782,"text":"那為什麼,我很好奇為什麼會發文給菸商,你是認為說因為他們比較知道說,這個走私危害到他們的這個正常的營業是這樣子嗎?所以你就發文給這些菸商,因為我是覺得陳正波發文給菸商然後去問說怎麼去防範走私,這個有點奇怪啦"},{"start":7945.362,"end":7947.086,"text":"我想我們是徵詢相關的意見然後來做我們精進的一個參考那當然應該我們也知道其他國家也都有合法的販售所以我們想請看看"},{"start":7956.087,"end":7975.077,"text":"他們能不能提供那這些其他國家在查緝上面的做法做我們的一個參考是這個應該是我們自己內部你包含警政署海巡署我們應該去做處理的這個內部我們也會我們下周就會再開一個會然後請他們大家提供一些更好的意見那先生有給你回覆嗎這個國庫署是來說明好"},{"start":7980.4,"end":8001.573,"text":"我們發函,那菸商他們也都有提供相關的意見但是意見大部分就是希望說整個茶器走私是阻絕於關外然後如果在市面上的話,就是在市面上的相關市場或者是販售地點去加強茶器這個部長不好意思,我是覺得這個是凸顯了我們對於這個茶器試菸"},{"start":8007.213,"end":8033.403,"text":"可能齁這個在力道上面齁有不足的地方結果呢我們自己內部當然你說你內部當然是有去做檢討去做聯繫我看你們還要加開什麼匯報之類的但是去問到這個菸燒我就覺得說好像是變我們行政機關去這個這方面查器試菸好像有做不到的地方還去問菸燒你跟我們講一下要怎麼去查器我就覺得這個很奇怪啦"},{"start":8034.584,"end":8035.485,"text":"主席有請財政部莊部長莊部長請"},{"start":8065.384,"end":8078.369,"text":"部長早總部長今天是6月19號目前的報稅情況如何預收金額跟目前的時收數達成率是多少可不可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":8080.253,"end":8087.817,"text":"跟委員說明今年因為所得稅的申報以及繳納的期限延長到6月底到6月17號為止中所稅已經完成申報的有583萬件大概達成了85%還有15萬還沒有完成申報那在中所稅的部分已經完成了88%"},{"start":8105.865,"end":8124.413,"text":"那至於在稅收的部分呢大概是我們目前來說只有統計到五月底那這個數字其實在比較的基礎上比較沒有具有太大的意義因為今年整個繳納的期限延到六月底所以所以五月底的數字跟去年的同期當然是有一段很大的差距是"},{"start":8124.873,"end":8141.872,"text":"是的 分別是85%跟88%這個是申報的件數 大概到6月17號那還是要呼籲一下民眾儘早完成報酬是的 是的 還有剩10 12天我們希望民眾在期限內完成回到主題我們那個私菸 茶器一直是國人關心的重點"},{"start":8142.913,"end":8147.816,"text":"那你們這個實驗查緝作業的報告指出說1月3年查緝違法菸品1,120萬包那1月2年查緝查獲數量是1,838萬包相較減少了718萬"},{"start":8160.605,"end":8175.38,"text":"這個煙啦但是件數增加了4589件現在看起來就是件數增加是因為有假發現增炸彩的情況這個部分新聞都有寫啦因為這不是口說空口說的這個部分新聞分別都海巡人員這個"},{"start":8178.363,"end":8202.1,"text":"涉勾結私煙集團詐領查緝獎金還有就是加熱煙走私 年成長86%海關人員說政府不徵稅 偷垮基層海巡抓煙暴集團集體貪污這個勾結集團詐領高額獎金的部分那所以我想這個部分"},{"start":8205.653,"end":8218.841,"text":"利用街友低收入戶當人頭然後乍領茶企這個私菸獎金國庫直接變成他們的提款機那人頭戶原本帳戶收入不多但是在2019、2023年間開設的私菸工廠"},{"start":8222.023,"end":8236.685,"text":"總共被裁罰了七次那這罰款五千五百多萬但是他卻只繳了一萬四千多塊的這些罰金那這七次的查緝獎金跟檢舉獎金就被領走兩千四百八十二萬"},{"start":8237.626,"end":8263.306,"text":"那如果依照海巡單位自己的說法說查緝一千萬的私菸最高獎金是四百八十萬就四十八趴 這相當高喔那二零二三年查獲的私菸市價是八點五九億獎金發了八千多萬減少七百一十八萬包但是件數增加四千五百八十九件這很明顯的內神通外鬼不知道A走多少錢 部長"},{"start":8264.927,"end":8277.89,"text":"太晚發現釀成了這樣子的一個大錯這是一個大問題所以請教部長你要如何精進如何檢討那國庫署這邊有沒有跟你提出相關的檢討報告可不可以跟我們說明一下"},{"start":8278.996,"end":8286.879,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員我想第一個就是包數減少但是呢查獲的件數增加主要的原因第一個就是說原來私菸他透過走邊境走私轉化成為在國內的地下菸廠來施製來產製這個私菸而且這個地下菸廠原來是屬於大規模的"},{"start":8297.703,"end":8301.305,"text":"那個比較大的機器設備而現在是採小規模但是它地點分散所以在查緝的難度上確實有提高那件數增加我想這個部分我們已經有所說明那當然還有當然今天發生就是說我們發現這個海巡這樣的一個不法的事件是絕對不應該的但是也不能因為這個事件而去抹殺到其他的"},{"start":8320.154,"end":8336.605,"text":"查緝人員跟查緝機關的努力我想還是有合法的海巡同仁對沒有錯但是我要告訴地方政府都在努力的查緝我要告訴部長部長因為我們不只是失冤啦包括查扣的這些成品半成品原料還有產製的器具是不是都應該銷毀"},{"start":8337.566,"end":8342.19,"text":"沒有錯 都應該銷毀但是我們要講一個實例2023年9月我們這個簡年派人到彰化和美倉庫辦理實驗室被銷毀的時候卻發現我們的茶系人員僅將這些機器都拋棄在"},{"start":8355.5,"end":8377.068,"text":"這個廢鐵回收區沒有針對馬達主機板主體結構等重要部會進行破壞還把這些高單價的像包裝機這個部分刻意藏匿於這個鐵罐區你們的報告裡面有說為了要避免查獲的私營原料器具再度流入流出做非法的用途所以財政部"},{"start":8377.908,"end":8386.098,"text":"會依菸酒管理法57條沒收或者是沒收之後競速銷毀那請問部長你有沒有規定一個銷毀的期限"},{"start":8388.588,"end":8406.404,"text":"我沒有規定應該要做這樣的事情對 它還沒做對 它沒有做 表示說沒有徹底資金那至於怎麼樣強化這樣的一個機制財政部也一直在努力然後下個禮拜我們會邀同相關的機關來把制度上更做的經濟把它明定出來 好不好避免這些東西沒有被銷毀然後又流入市場"},{"start":8412.549,"end":8435.897,"text":"那造成不當的這些人士,不孝的這些人士,變成他們來練才啦好,謝謝委員的指教,謝謝那再請教部長就是說,其實這件事常常發生啦偷龍轉鳳啦,偷天換日啦,這些東西把一些比較沒有價值的,價值性低的,或者是去做更換那所以我這邊要講的就是說"},{"start":8437.865,"end":8453.323,"text":"事實上就是這些器具跟成品總是能夠逃離執法人員的法眼再度的流入市場甚至有一些已經到了焚化廠但是委外辦理的這些人操作的人"},{"start":8455.245,"end":8480.794,"text":"原來要銷毀的這些違規的這些菸品或者是器具被這個偷糧換住然後變成他們私自販賣得利的這樣子的一些這樣子的情況所以這個問題是顯示說我們原來在查緝上跟銷毀制度上的不夠完整剛剛部長你也提到很多東西沒有明定對不對 沒有強化所以這部分下禮拜就拜託部長"},{"start":8481.634,"end":8503.705,"text":"把這些我們需要補強的部分把它強化之後好不好讓我們的制度能夠更加的完善謝謝委員的指教我們這個一定把它納入對當然這個查緝銷毀這部分是要強化但是至於說我們的檢舉跟獎勵制度上也要做更全面的修正好的也要做一個更更嚴密的一個制度的設計是的謝謝委員的指教謝謝部長部長請回"},{"start":8507.507,"end":8512.077,"text":"謝謝 再次加一部分有請我們衛福部邱部長還有國建署的吳署長"},{"start":8517.782,"end":8546.463,"text":"委員好部長好 署長好這個主管機關是我們衛福部跟國界署那當然我要強調就是說我們不鼓勵抽菸啦但是剛剛很多委員都有提到就是說因為造成因為加熱菸的這樣子的狀況那造成現在走失猖獗走失猖獗那因為這是因為政府的不作為嘛不可以說現在"},{"start":8548.072,"end":8575.612,"text":"除了是走私猖獗也是國庫的損失啦變成說讓這些民眾要去用高價購買這些走私菸所以這沒有人樂見啦剛剛我們很多委員都有提出嘛提出說要求說我們計數什麼時間之內能夠完成審查那我想請教說部長跟署長可不可以請你們定出一個時間到底多久才會完成這個審查就是加熱菸的這個部分"},{"start":8577.76,"end":8595.549,"text":"確定的時間當然我不敢講因為這是審查會的審查裡面的專家學者他有沒有針對資料然後做以投票的一個過程我想這個部分很多很多的審查都是這樣子所以這要尊重半年之內有沒有辦法"},{"start":8597.07,"end":8614.596,"text":"我想我們一定在這裡面盡量來完成這樣的一個我們會站在人民的健康、社會的關注以及說國家應該來看看怎麼樣均衡這些健康跟社會問題我們政府就是要來解決問題的我們會盡速來解決這些問題"},{"start":8617.757,"end":8637.113,"text":"對啦 部長跟署長要請你們再加把勁像去年光是加熱煙就增加了1.3倍走失的部分這是有查獲的喔那沒有查獲的我們不知道有多少當然因為他還沒有審查過所以基本上他也是屬於要查緝的對對對 沒錯好 謝謝部長跟署長要再請我們海巡署的謝副署長謝副署長請"},{"start":8651.775,"end":8677.598,"text":"委員長這個警方出估類似的詐領獎金的事件恐怕已經持續五年以上那國庫損失的部分已經高達數億元這個還不包括非法的私菸流入市場但是你們跳出來說詐領的金額沒有高達上億元是媒體錯誤的報導那我想海巡署發生了這麼嚴重的漏洞"},{"start":8679.199,"end":8705.736,"text":"實在是讓人無法接受應該是要怎麼樣強化這個法紀的教育這些空洞的說辭都沒有辦法為你們為整個海巡署在發生這麼嚴重的這樣子的一個狀況之下嚴重的漏洞你們除了處分這個偵辦的偵查員之外還有沒有什麼其他具體的做法"},{"start":8706.417,"end":8723.674,"text":"謝謝委員 委員我們除了我們對於危有犯罪絕對零容忍這個涉案被激要我們立即免職另外交保兩位我們列入年底考機要太除另外在精進作法部分所有類案我們做檢舉筆錄的時候隊長要在場"},{"start":8725.996,"end":8750.534,"text":"要核花檢舉獎金的時候 政風人員要督辦不僅保護當事人身份 也要確認檢舉事實的真實性接下來我們也全面清查類案跟委員報告 我們現在清查目前這個案 彰化地檢署正在偵辦這個案子最近三年 台中地檢署有申請只有一個案子思源工廠 核花是171萬元"},{"start":8752.515,"end":8779.003,"text":"目前我們掌握是這一件那當然我們排除其他案件我們清查中目前包括地緣署也還沒有其他具體的線索只有這一件這一件核發是只有171萬元那如果說講數億元的話對於絕大多數辛苦奉獻的因為時間到了所以我想就是說你還是要這個要挽回大家對海巡署的信心那必須要有些具體作文好不好那你也要為國庫的損失"},{"start":8780.623,"end":8788.647,"text":"提出一個合理的交代是好不好我們就全力以赴好 謝謝好 謝謝英文的執行 下面請李卓文執行我請財政部部長跟邱部長兩位一起兩位部長請也感謝邱部長每一次我們委員會的這個重要的議題你都親自來代表你對本委員會的重視喔也代表你對CN查緝的重視喔"},{"start":8810.718,"end":8838.174,"text":"5月20號的時候針對於私菸茶器的部分我們財政部發文給五大菸商就是對於我們目前加熱菸的違法達到96萬包跟去年相比113年同期相比增加了44萬所以我們財政部就發文問了菸商說我們到底要應該怎麼做這麼多私菸但是我們大家都知道私菸的管理茶器事實上重要的責任是在衛福部"},{"start":8838.914,"end":8845.482,"text":"我覺得這個做法 當然可以財政部做了 中部長做了 當然沒錯但是我們有橫向聯繫的部門啊怎麼沒有第一時間先找衛福部商量"},{"start":8851.519,"end":8868.854,"text":"或者找大家一起來同時找衛福部一起來這是第一個我覺得你們是不是感情不夠好照道理說部長你應該先找邱部長我們大家一起找看有關單位是誰來海關 檢查 警察哪些單位一起來 菸商一起來"},{"start":8870.535,"end":8875.698,"text":"直接發文給他 在我看來你們兩個感情是很好的但是5月27號 我們衛福部就發了一個電子煙箱的查緝平台對於後續未來各部會怎麼去從源頭去做管理我們去做一些討論"},{"start":8892.628,"end":8918.961,"text":"相較之下我覺得這也凸顯出我們包括我看到衛福部我們的國建署在6月17號就在媒體發出聲明就是說我們對目前財閥的這個數目我們是非常滿意的財閥的數量高但是同時我覺得財政部也沒有錯因為我們違法的訴訟也高"},{"start":8921.887,"end":8938.663,"text":"財閥的數量高跟我們違法數量高這是兩件不一樣的事情代表我們違反的人特別多這個也是我要提醒衛福部的地方違規的人多當然你財閥數量也高啊相對的不斷都在提高啊所以"},{"start":8939.861,"end":8957.936,"text":"我覺得這並不代表財政部杞人憂天但是邱部長我憑良心講我能夠理解財政部的擔心因為我看到國建署提供的數據從今年1月到5月我們全國查緝電子菸的數量只有158件家人菸總共有1445件網路平台裁罰的只有7件"},{"start":8966.721,"end":8971.108,"text":"這個數據 我現在講的數字你應該都很清楚但是我們底下的黑數"},{"start":8981.132,"end":9002.834,"text":"是這個的幾倍你們知道嗎你有聽到嗎 邱部長我們從供應面 泛射面 使用面其實都是結合各部會對啦 我說你知道黑樹有可能是這個的幾倍你知道嗎那你知道黑樹比這個都多很多所說的樹木不曉得吳司長有沒有誰可以回應我"},{"start":9005.189,"end":9013.336,"text":"謝謝李委員的關心那過去移送裁判的案件有一些事還沒有裁判還在行政調查當中那莊部長你覺得黑數是現在查緝到的可能的幾倍所以比現在查緝到的更多"},{"start":9026.363,"end":9040.055,"text":"有沒有可能應該當然查緝到的跟沒有查緝到的當然都有啦部長你都不敢承認我就直接告訴你黑數恐怕是你們查緝到的數十倍以上好來我要以網路販售為例"},{"start":9043.698,"end":9071.33,"text":"我們現在網路上根本就不能賣煙嘛你們很清楚嘛無論是煙品或電子煙都是依法都是全面禁止的但是我們光從Google上面就可以輕易找到三家在網路上販賣加熱煙或電子煙或者我們年輕人現在從IG也好臉書也好或者有一些LINE的社群都會告訴大家你要抽電子煙你要去哪裡買"},{"start":9072.811,"end":9099.577,"text":"所以就是說我們現在國建署對外只是蝦皮啦 露天啦或者跟有一些平台業者合作獲得初步的控制但是買這些私菸的狀況事實上有太多的管道都不再列入你們現在茶季的範圍之內所以今天為什麼張偉排了這個專報就是對於目前茶季私菸的部分"},{"start":9100.357,"end":9104.038,"text":"對於你們目前所掌握到的管道事實上大家是不滿意的這也凸顯出財政部的憂慮事實上是沒有錯的所以我覺得在查緝的部分我還是要提醒邱部長我們還是有精進的功能你不可以只看蝦皮露天因為現在很多人賴群組有在抽這個電子驗他們自己有跟你講到哪裡去買"},{"start":9126.624,"end":9155.461,"text":"所以目前我看到的其實用心一點大家都知道翠上面也有人在糾團的餵啦所以我覺得這個是你要去注意的地方但是部長 邱部長你可以站旁邊來 莊部長但是我覺得你經濟的地方還有一些地方可以去做處理就是說翠上面我有看到網路在分享譬如說小港機場有人講說我們現在拖運的行李都會照X光你多帶菸大家都看得到你帶什麼微鏡瓶都看得到"},{"start":9156.081,"end":9176.124,"text":"但是手提的就沒有經過X光機嘛就是用目測看你有沒有多帶多買嘛但是往往我就看到TRACE上面有一個漏洞喔有人就是我先手提用拿的當我經過因為我們現在有那個驗那個豬肉的那個豬瘟非洲豬瘟嘛但非洲豬瘟不管菸品嘛部長你知道嘛你帶十條菸你帶二十條電子菸他沒有看嘛因為他只看有沒有帶豬肉嘛"},{"start":9185.826,"end":9193.65,"text":"他拿完 通過那個X光機查有沒有豬瘟的時候他就走到廁所去那他就把他所買的電子菸全部都塞到T0的行李裡面你就沒看到嘛所以我只講這個案例給你事實上 查緝私菸不是只有衛福部的責任事實上財政部有很多可以精進的作為"},{"start":9208.416,"end":9223.508,"text":"所以這是我今天在提醒你們的地方好 我這個議題到此結束來 部長你們都可以請邱部長你可以請回 莊部長你可以留下來部長你要再留下來對不起 我還有第二個議題好 那個你們其他可以請回就是說上個月我有質詢那個不印證的議題就是說如何對於不印證的那個補助的扣除額的部分現在你們本來是要求前三年要會計制度完備現在改成前一年就好了看起來是放寬了"},{"start":9237.859,"end":9255.552,"text":"但是我要提醒的是我們做這件事情當時賴慧雯是召委我們都同意說事實上我們政府做這件事情我們扣除的目的是要維持基本生活的必要支出還有我們政府認為這件事情應該是要給予扣除跟"},{"start":9256.972,"end":9272.427,"text":"補助的所以那個扣除而改成一年這個事情跟不孕症夫妻事實上是沒有足夠原因這是兩件事情我覺得應該把重心放在如何讓診所採取何種報稅的方式"},{"start":9273.644,"end":9277.488,"text":"就是不應該把它放在你是哪一種報稅方式而是應該確認民眾確實他因為做不孕症的這個醫療他可以得到補助這個核心問題應該是在這邊而不是說你報稅制度完被改成三年改成兩年我覺得這件事情我仍舊不認同"},{"start":9293.804,"end":9321.05,"text":"我希望你可以回去考慮那第二點就是說我覺得你們目前無論是次費補助或健保補助你有四種方式無論是查證核實或書面審查或前三年的這個平均損益或按費用的費率來做申報這是屬於健保診所的部分但是事實上對於現在次費的部分你要求說你一定要用按費用率來去做申報"},{"start":9322.37,"end":9331.922,"text":"不管是健保有沒有健保或自費我覺得你不應該有兩套制度才來去叫做會計制度的完備我覺得這個對於我們對於政府獎勵就是說"},{"start":9337.749,"end":9363.248,"text":"補助 就是你可以做不印證就扣除了這件事情我覺得應該是回到一些基本包括大法官701號也有解釋說對於醫療費用支出 稅增機關應該等於職權審核至於用哪一種審核方式不應該增加行政稽查的成本否則用特定的申報方式是有違反平等原則"},{"start":9364.489,"end":9384.035,"text":"這是大法官701號的解釋我要提醒您所以不管是健保或者是自費我覺得應該都要用便民的方式來去做處理也不應該違反平等原則最後我要請邱部長衛福部有要求你就是說對於做不孕症的部分我們本來要求說"},{"start":9385.936,"end":9411.028,"text":"財政部有建議衛福部說應該要會計制度的完備你才可以申請到那個不孕症的補助對不對他有要求這件事情嗎我剛剛講的那個是扣除額的部分那我是講人工生殖的補助這部分我們補助的全部免稅對不起你再講一次如果由國健署補助的"},{"start":9412.012,"end":9434.492,"text":"對啦 事實上我覺得跟委員報告 我支持衛福部只要是政府補救的費用多免納入報稅免稅這是兩件事 我們現在對 但是現在衛福財政部要求說應該要會計制度完備才可以 你到醫院才可以領到那個人工生殖補助這是兩件事情 剛剛我講的是"},{"start":9435.353,"end":9463.105,"text":"扣除額 在你的每年要繳的稅的扣除額我現在講的是國建署現在目前那個補助的要件的修正跟調整喔所以我絕對支持衛福部現在不用去管會計制度有沒有完備 你只要有做我就給你補助 這個是我們政府給予補助的目的所以財政部這樣是 你不要去介入他那麼多 因為"},{"start":9464.145,"end":9483.439,"text":"我們政府目的是不是要補助給這些年輕人你不認證的困難我就是給你補助讓你去做有沒有自費或有沒有健保這都不是當時選擇這些診所條件他只要選擇說我覺得這個醫生好做有機會成功風評不錯我就要去這家醫院做他馬去管說請問你這家醫院有沒有會計制度完備"},{"start":9484.64,"end":9494.805,"text":"我覺得這個是不對的所以我絕對支持衛福部的做法以上就是今天的質詢我們再跟委員做說謝謝麗委員的質詢現在請陳立正委員質詢幫忙為陳立正委員質詢完畢後我們休息十分鐘剛才宣布過了先請我們邱部長邱部長請"},{"start":9512.403,"end":9530.998,"text":"部長你支持國不國立國際醫療台灣發展的國際醫療產業我們國家一直在發展對嘛 支持這個產業發展國際醫療因為台灣的醫療水準醫療產業相當的好除了現在我們有台積電希望下一個國際醫療可以變成我們一個很好的這個產業對吧"},{"start":9533.386,"end":9540.193,"text":"請問,境外人士來這邊做這些國際醫療,比如說醫美啊,境外人士啦,外國人啦,境外人士,可以使用健保嗎?不行。不行嘛,對不對?是不是自費?自費。所以這樣會掏空健保嗎?"},{"start":9555.906,"end":9579.236,"text":"如果以單純來做醫美對啊就做這些國際醫療當然就是因為他們如果是國外的人嘛對就國外我說就國外來這邊做一些國際醫療啦他沒有我們的健保沒有健保就是國外的人嘛日本人啊韓國人啊就是國外的人嘛都是國外對境外人士啊就外國不管哪裡反正沒有健保的人啊沒有健保的人不能用健保嘛對不對因為國際醫療是這樣而且要自費對不對是這個產業我們也很鼓勵嘛一直在推嘛是那這樣會掏空健保嗎"},{"start":9585.766,"end":9614.299,"text":"如果只有在這個國際外國人到這邊做智慧的項目外國人包括大陸人士啊大陸人是境外人士啊沒有什麼關係這樣子沒有啦 沒有關係喔跟那個健保的 不會掏空健保跟醫療量沒有關係喔好 謝謝不會掏空會影響健保就是國人這醫美 然後如果產生副作用對 那個是國人嘛 那個就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就就"},{"start":9615.762,"end":9619.164,"text":"我今天要請教您是因為有一個霸團或者是律師賴中強說他最近一直說出一些很奇怪的話雖然他是法律專業但他也不是醫療產業也不是這個軍事專業他說什麼我們主張做國際醫療就會掏空台灣的健保量能掏空台灣健保"},{"start":9645.259,"end":9674.058,"text":"這個是雞心叵測 非常差第二個 他又說 來 這個 這一個他又說兩岸人民關係條例第29條修正案企圖將禁限制水域去主權化將台海關係定為內戰關係形成台灣問題是中國內政問題的法律框架這是陳永康委員提出來的那個我想請問你這個兩岸條例這個29條修法重點這個你應該知道我們禁限制水域是由哪邊公告啊"},{"start":9675.279,"end":9695.381,"text":"我們金縣制水域現在都是國防部公告依照聯合條例第2條現在是國防部公告是好那我想請問那現在我們這個金縣制水域就是我們現在金門以金門地區來講金縣制水域周遭的水域是你們是海軍國防部的海軍艦艇來巡防還是由海巡署你們來巡防"},{"start":9696.443,"end":9708.738,"text":"那個地方因為太敏感太近我平時上都進行水域都4000到6000公尺那我也非常清楚地理非常接近所以目前執法在近現實水域內都是海巡人員在執法馬祖金門包括東定等等都是中國"},{"start":9715.667,"end":9734.662,"text":"自己宣稱所謂的臨海基線 臨海範圍內嘛因為他很近嘛 我們太近了嘛我要重申是中國宣稱所謂的 我知道我知道因為他那條線劃過來基本馬祖就在中國劃的那個臨海範圍內嘛所以我們那時候中華民國劃一個那個臨海基線的時候對 劃第一批臨海基線的時候有沒有把我們基門劃進去"},{"start":9736.104,"end":9742.83,"text":"金門的話因為臨海基線的話我們現在劃的現在都是近線之水域就沒有劃沒有劃沒有劃基本上臨海基線一劃就跟東沙一樣東沙本島一樣劃臨海基線我們12海里就臨海"},{"start":9758.306,"end":9787.175,"text":"所以這個陳永康委員修這個二十九條的這個兩岸條例是因為現在的確執法就是這個是執法就是海巡署在執法吧不是國軍執法因為環境特殊吧也避免太近啊萬一什麼衝突啊因為兩岸關係特殊所以畫設淨水線涉及到國防戰略國家安全跟地區情勢等等我知道我想請問你來我想請問你這一點是所以"},{"start":9788.055,"end":9791.418,"text":"所以如果 我想請問法務部 法務部上來一下我先請問你 禁限制水域這個東西是不是國際海洋法裡面的我先請問你 賴中強說 將會把金門大變成中國的內海化國際海洋公約內海這種名詞嗎"},{"start":9807.011,"end":9831.119,"text":"有 寧海跟主委報告寧海可以自然基線跟直線基線中國大陸採直線基線 不管怎樣寧海基線耗完之後裡面是內水12海浬是寧海那有內海嗎 有內水我知道內國水域啊 沒有內海他說我們把它變內海 是內水嘛專有名詞怎麼可以說是內海呢學法律的律師什麼都不懂胡說八道我請問法務部來"},{"start":9833.666,"end":9861.067,"text":"金縣治水你剛剛有聽到金門因為這個環境特殊所以有畫了金縣治水域 國防部畫了一個金縣治水域然後金門也沒有被中華民國畫入在臨海基線裡頭因為我們就是離大陸太近嘛特殊原因沒有辦法畫嘛但是大陸畫的裡頭 中國大陸是有把我們畫進去這是他畫的啦好 那特殊 所以我們現在是海巡在守嘛海巡在守 沒有國防部在守因為怕說萬一有什麼衝突 海軍第一級啊擔心這很多衝突啦所以現在是海巡在幫我們顧海岸"},{"start":9861.907,"end":9877.261,"text":"還要顧那個禁限制水域這個事實上就是這樣子那請問啊這個如果禁限制水域這個東西喔這個由國防部改為海委會來公告那這個是不是請問這個國防部是不是代表國家主權國防部我們政府機關都是代表國家去行使我們的公權利沒錯嘛海巡署算不算"},{"start":9887.998,"end":9897.819,"text":"是嘛 海巡署有比國安部高 海委會啦應該說海委會啦海委會高比國安部稅寒國安部代表國家主權海委會就不代表國家主權嗎"},{"start":9899.5,"end":9922.418,"text":"都是屬於行政院的一部分對嘛 都是行政院 都是我們國家的中央機關嘛 這個沒有問題嘛所以就法律上來講 為什麼有律師會說把限制或禁止水域把國安部公告的部分 公告啦 改為現在本來就是已經是海巡在管了啦實際上海巡在管 改為什麼海委會來公告就會變成是我們去主權化呢"},{"start":9923.752,"end":9937.588,"text":"為什麼這樣會被人去阻結案 你可以解釋一下嗎他的這個律師公開開記者會這樣講喔他說公告單位本來是國防部變成海巡的話為什麼這樣被人去阻結案你們海巡組海委會不是國家主權的象徵喔委員可以補充報告嗎他為什麼這樣講啊報告委員 不管律師怎麼講"},{"start":9940.731,"end":9957.28,"text":"我們政府機關立場是這樣因為現在實際上在你們政府機關立場沒有問題誰要換我都沒有問題重點不在這裡我是說這樣是會我的意思是在評論這件事情說是不是他的評論是正確的因為就像他說國際醫療來做國際醫療就會把我們的健保掏空明明那些人都要付費"},{"start":9958.16,"end":9972.298,"text":"都要花錢耶我們意思是說我們不僅司法考量當然還有國防戰略跟國家安全考量這個都是可以考慮但是這等於是說如果有你們來公告就去主權嗎我問的是這個問題有誰來公告這都可以考慮"},{"start":9975.342,"end":9996.514,"text":"但是會因為這樣而變得去嘴因為今天是海巡在管那現在海巡不要管叫國防部回來管因為實際上海巡沒有錯但是他整個牽涉層面國安跟國防戰略考量等等包括地區穩定等等所以還是由國防部會比較恰當沒問題我說誰公告這都不是重點現在是你們在管所以你們在管就不是捍衛國家主權"},{"start":9998.655,"end":10005.78,"text":"我們絕對絕對捍衛國家主權 是嘛所以你們也是捍衛國家主權嘛 是但是因為 帶中強胡說八道來 那請問另外一條 來 我先發布兩岸人民關係條例第八十條之一規範規範什麼你知道嗎我唸給你聽一下大陸的這個船舶未經許可進入台灣地區台灣地區就是金門台灣地區 台澎金限制或禁限制水域處心臺壁的划船一千萬 三十萬"},{"start":10024.173,"end":10049.152,"text":"這個機關訂的是哪一個機關喔?我該跟你講了你知道這條嗎?應該是由主管機關來海巡啦主管機關那如果照這樣講這個處罰應該要給國防部訂啊為什麼要給海委會訂?跨社都不能給海委會處罰為什麼要給那個我問一下法律觀念啦在兩岸條例部分有關距離越界路傳的話我要問法務部好不好你都知道我知道我要問法務部因為這是法律問題啦"},{"start":10050.693,"end":10078.035,"text":"實際就是你們在做嘛我知道我是不知道為什麼這樣跟主權會有關係會把什麼會矮化我們的主權啊然後也沒有內海這種詞啊要說什麼這是什麼什麼內海內水就內水不懂為什麼這樣會矮化主權喔法務部這怎麼解釋成矮化主權中央行政機關都是捍衛主權為出發點來去解釋都是代表國家的主權嘛齁有沒有問題海委會就是矮化主權是嗎"},{"start":10080.867,"end":10094.947,"text":"跟委員報告說兩岸條例很多主管機關去年就入船的話主管機關明定是我們海委會海巡署但是我剛才報告過了整個化設淨水域要牽涉到方方面面的考量沒問題 有別的考量沒有問題但是這跟主權有什麼關係"},{"start":10096.189,"end":10111.606,"text":"沒有關係嘛 對不對來 副主長我來問一個 海巡署的一個問題這個齁 反正我在這裡釐清啦就有一些所謂什麼金明年耐律師啊什麼都不懂 軍事也不懂 醫療也不懂 就胡說八道什麼都是什麼矮化主權 只是為了要罷免而已來"},{"start":10113.428,"end":10136.128,"text":"這個破壞國人的這個破壞產業的發展像醫療產業發展很重要這樣子誤導老百姓來那個海巡署我要請問啦副市長這個艦對不起再一分鐘艦隊君子聯執行海上查緝主角和海域衝突的高抗性情務風險很高嘛高的案情那至於設計你們現在沒有24小時待命或是已領海情加急你們把它排除當作戰鬥加急對象對不對是"},{"start":10137.97,"end":10141.192,"text":"我們在108年有跟人種爭取過那因為以前都是養種局變艦隊分屬因為你們裡面有警職人員嘛 直八倍四嘛警職人員可以加班可以申請補休 軍職卻沒有辦法 這樣公平嗎"},{"start":10155.742,"end":10177.678,"text":"因為我們有規定各類人員要依照各自的人事法令來辦理軍職就沒有申請只有夜點會我知道所以我的意思是說因為我們最近不是修軍的話有戰鬥家旗可以加所以像在海巡裡頭的軍職人員他沒有啊而且你們還要求你們是不是有要求軍職人員簽署不清明戰鬥家旗的切結書有要求嗎"},{"start":10178.578,"end":10191.883,"text":"那個事讓他知道你過來依規定他過來艦隊分屬沒辦法支領海巡部隊你們可以行政程序法第70條行政機關不得已企業或其他方式限制人民依法得享之潛力喔你可以隨便叫人家簽這個嗎我們等於是調查意願調查說這個沒有強制力就對了沒有沒有沒有沒有而且"},{"start":10197.885,"end":10215.727,"text":"軍人待遇條例通過之後他以後會比我們的人員高考比方稍微出任一個月多一萬七左右副組長我再講說一下三件事情第一個請你釐清戰鬥家籍的適用標準實際用實際的勤務來認定適用對象如果你說什麼考試院還是權需不要"},{"start":10215.967,"end":10234.404,"text":"人種我們會全力爭取不要用形式來排除這個艦隊的君子聯第二個沒有辦法請領加班費這個不合理之物請要檢討這個東西第三個請你們禁止有一法務在這裡不可以用切結束方式剝奪老百姓尤其你們的"},{"start":10235.305,"end":10255.074,"text":"人員申請補助的權利不要再簽這種東西違法行為不要再簽這種東西而且要追溯補償回復應有權利一個月內給我答案可以嗎是一個月內可以嗎一定可以好 謝謝副處長好 謝謝陳立堅委員的諮詢我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":10281.815,"end":10293.657,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10336.613,"end":10345.218,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10372.944,"end":10390.725,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":10416.526,"end":10422.814,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":10444.155,"end":10459.683,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":10492.755,"end":10493.956,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":10532.763,"end":10532.783,"text":"好"},{"start":10584.923,"end":10594.957,"text":"來 請"},{"start":10624.764,"end":10626.665,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10661.459,"end":10685.435,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":10717.337,"end":10729.989,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10742.79,"end":10757.278,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":10774.326,"end":10775.309,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":10811.903,"end":10813.049,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":10842.978,"end":10843.52,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":10871.598,"end":10876.241,"text":"好 報告委員會 我們現在繼續開會有請林思敏委員 請好 謝謝主席 有請財政部莊部長財政部的莊部長好委員好市長部長好 部長"},{"start":10897.179,"end":10925.673,"text":"我想在2019年2月當時因為省紀部的審核報告所以監察院進一步的去查核後續的監察院報告指出財政部長期消極以韓文要求地方政府全然未派源實地查核以落實執行菸捐經費運用要點所定的實地查核機制導致地方政府持續多年未依專款專用的原則來辦理運用茶器的經費"},{"start":10927.034,"end":10955.853,"text":"因此後來監察院也糾正了財政部但是我們看到上週有媒體報導有海巡人員涉嫌勾結私煙集團詐領私煙的查緝獎金高達數億國庫署在6月10號雖然有發出新聞稿做出相關的說明但是針對這個案件我想了解說財政部內部是否已經有去了解到底被詐領的金額有多少"},{"start":10957.114,"end":10970.503,"text":"那國庫署的新聞稿中對於這些被詐領的金額其實他沒有做任何的說明就金額的現在這個追討的結果如何並沒有做一個說明所以後續我們對於追討會採取哪些動作請部長來說明謝謝委員對於這樣的一個情況我們認為應該要嚴處"},{"start":10981.963,"end":10996.35,"text":"那另外對於這一個個案目前因為檢調司法在偵查當中那我們到第一個動作我們就是發函給海巡署看能不能提供我們相關資料這個個案到底這個人領走了多少"},{"start":10997.126,"end":11015.524,"text":"金額的獎金那麼我們後續才能夠做相關的一個追討所以財政部還是要等到司法偵辦的一個結果對 如果司法偵查出來以後會更明確這個人所涉及的一個個案那目前因為我們也大概透過各種方式來了解同時也發函給海巡署這樣子部長"},{"start":11016.625,"end":11033.303,"text":"但因為司法偵辦的結果通常耗日廢時是不是可以跟我們直接跟海巡署這邊跟海委會來做一個行政的一個調查到底他們這個詐領了多少錢然後我們提早跟他來追討"},{"start":11033.883,"end":11051.698,"text":"是的我們這個部分我們會再跟海委會跟海巡署來請他們再提供那追討的未來的結果如何也請財政部能夠再提供相關的一個追討的資料給我們財委會好的我們會把後面的追查結果提報告給委員會謝謝委員"},{"start":11054.42,"end":11076.774,"text":"另外我們關於媒體報導中他也提到說私菸茶器所處理的上億元的罰款因為私菸集團都是利用人頭來當負責人因此導致罰款最後都扣不到成為呆帳但是我們的獎金是一樣的發放那罰款扣不到但是獎金還是一樣給"},{"start":11078.18,"end":11086.85,"text":"造成聽起來讓人們的感覺就是說這個國庫損失不少像這樣子的一個情況未來要如何補救"},{"start":11087.478,"end":11091.68,"text":"是謝謝委員對於有關發給茶器這個獎金的部分是為了鼓勵努力跟積極茶器的人員給予獎勵那至於他所課真的罰還沒有能夠收到那涉及到這個這個這所謂的處分人他就對變那個人本身的財力那這個部分我想我們會在下一步的部分會在制度面上來做一個設計"},{"start":11113.03,"end":11128.237,"text":"在制度面上設計來避免有這樣的一個情況尤其是找所謂的人頭或低收入戶他根本就沒有財力的人來當人頭而造成這樣一個情況我們的制度面要設計然後讓他做得更精進更有效謝謝委員指教 現在請法務部的劉主任檢察官劉主任檢察官請"},{"start":11145.774,"end":11164.648,"text":"對於我剛才提到的就是私菸集團利用人頭當負責人導致我們罰款扣不到的情況當然剛才財務部說是會研擬但是我覺得這跟法務部的業務也有關那法務部對這種罰款扣不到的情況是否也會有相對應的一個措施"},{"start":11165.669,"end":11174.524,"text":"法管扣不到的時候如果說之後主管機關有移送到我們行政執行署來做強制執行的話我們也會配合來辦理"},{"start":11176.209,"end":11196.74,"text":"因為這人頭啊 他就沒有錢啊我相信說 法務部是不是也應該研理說如何遏止這些CN集團利用人頭來擔任負責人 結果規避查緝那法務部是不是應該有更積極精進的作為去遏止這樣的一個不法行為繼續的發生"},{"start":11198.443,"end":11218.374,"text":"不光是食鹽集團其實在其他相類型的案件犯罪中都會有這種以人頭作為公司或者是法人負責人的情況不管是逃避追緝或者是逃避刑事責任行政法都有的情況那我們這邊也會要求各檢察機關來精進的去辦理這樣的類似的檢查器"},{"start":11218.874,"end":11234.265,"text":"OK 好 謝謝接下來我想請問一下法務部的意見我想選罷法第81條第三項規定同一罷免案的提議人不得為連署人提議人及連署人的人數應該分別計算"},{"start":11236.807,"end":11251.28,"text":"所以如果說現在這個霸團就是他送進來的連署書第一階段的提議人跟第二階段的連署人是有重複連署的一個情況我想請教法奧普對於這種霸團"},{"start":11252.521,"end":11276.406,"text":"他明知故犯第一階段的提人你不能再成為第二階段的連署人結果你積極的去鼓吹告訴說請第一階段的提人你二階也來連署然後為了湊數灌水把這些一階段提人的連署書也把它一起湊起來重複連署達到我們二階法定的一個罷免門檻"},{"start":11278.066,"end":11288.794,"text":"請問這樣的行為是不是是用詩詠詐術來獲取不法利益讓被罷免的人可以達到被罷免的一個門檻這是不是一個詩詠詐術的詐欺行為啊區片中選會這樣是不是詐欺行為啊"},{"start":11295.94,"end":11313.956,"text":"報告委員有關於刑法的詐欺罪它規定在339條那它是屬於財產犯罪的類型那要件的話是要求說個人要被告行為人要有意圖為自己不法或第三人不法之所有意圖那也必須要適用詐數就誠如剛才委員所說的詐數的部分是"},{"start":11314.196,"end":11341.924,"text":"那最後的話他要求必須要有財產上的損害或者是獲得類似於財產上的不法利益那在符合這些構成要件的前提下才會去探討說是否這個行為是該當那回到剛才委員所提到的選罷法81條第三項的部分那固然這邊有規定一個強制規定禁止說這個提名人提議人作為一個聯署人不得為聯署人的部分"},{"start":11343.004,"end":11365.681,"text":"那明知故犯啊 是要有沒有犯下什麼罪那如果是從財產犯罪來講的話還是必須要回到財產犯罪裡面的本質就是要有財產上的損害你意思說這個是有私刑詐欺的太陽存在但是是不是構成詐欺罪因為它不屬於財產犯罪所以你認為可能這個還要再做一個進一步的分析嘛是不是你的意思是這樣"},{"start":11367.272,"end":11395.544,"text":"詐數是否存在還是必須要由個案去判斷不管是積極的使用詐數或者是消極不為而使人誤認都有可能構成或不構成的話還是要個案去看好那我接著再問你如果說他這樣子的一個連署行為就是法律已經明確規定了你不得為二階的連署人如果他還去連署請問這樣的二階的連署書是有效還無效違反法律的禁止規定應該講的"},{"start":11397.917,"end":11422.848,"text":"正如同說這個是一個違反法律的禁止規定來講其實相類似的比如說像股東會也有一些召開的一些強行禁止規定那有可能是造成股東會自始不成立無效或者是得撤銷那相同的在選罷法81條第三項有一個強行禁止規定的前提之下到底這樣的法律效果是如何的話可能還是要由主管機關來去做一個解釋這邊我們這邊就"},{"start":11424.79,"end":11440.371,"text":"相對的就是可能還是集中在刑事案件的偵辦上那跟委員另外報告的是有關於這個刑法的214條有關於使公務員登載不實的部分那當然也有可能會涉及到這一塊的犯罪構成要件"},{"start":11440.871,"end":11463.878,"text":"但是使公務員登載不實的部分的話我們現在司法實務是要求公務員如果有實質審查義務的話就比較不會該當於本罪所以在探討81條第三項違反提議人跟連署人同一的情況下這部分就要回到去看主管機關是不是有實質審查的義務來去判斷是不是有公務員使公務員登載不實的一個罪責可能性"},{"start":11464.338,"end":11490.009,"text":"好 OK這當然是我是認為他有實質審查的義務才能判斷說到底這個是不是有重複去抄寫去偽造文書或者是利用人家的個資去違反個人資料保護法的相關的問題所以這個重複聯署牽涉到的刑法的問題就是他可能是偽造文書他可能違反個人資料保護法因為一個正常的人不可能去同時簽兩份的聯署書"},{"start":11492.35,"end":11516.202,"text":"或者明知這個是第一階段我已經簽過二階不能再去連署他還去連署所以這個疑問是非常大的我想法務部也要去正視這個問題檢調要去介入我想這個部分我會去提告也希望檢調要積極地去調查到底有沒有偽造歸宿因為分數非常的多高達總分數的五分之一之多這麼多"},{"start":11518.403,"end":11526.045,"text":"這個一定要積極地去調查去申辦有沒有偽造文書有沒有違反個人資料保護法以上 謝謝好 謝謝林世民委員諮詢下一位請黃珊珊委員諮詢請我們現在可以開始發便當大家有需要可以享用"},{"start":11543.537,"end":11548.981,"text":"謝謝主席,我想請兩位部長,衛福部跟財政部"},{"start":11557.876,"end":11584.276,"text":"是 兩位部長早我想今天大家所有委員都很關心吸菸有害健康但是在國內它的確是一個產業它也是一個消費品加熱菸的問題今天大家都提了很多我想問兩位部長其實我們都知道很多的國人都在使用加熱菸對吧那國內是沒有合法的加熱菸那現在國人在使用的都是什麼菸都是走私來的對吧"},{"start":11588.647,"end":11614.826,"text":"是不是基本上是吧現在只要你看到在用加熱煙的人他就是走私來的現在走私依照財政部委託曾居樂教授的研究報告他裡面是說如果按照他的實際推估的話走私的煙品大概是從100萬到400萬用其他推估方式甚至高達1500萬"},{"start":11617.506,"end":11642.971,"text":"有沒有這麼多的走私的驗品啊財政不知道嗎我們跟委員報告當然這個部分我們在報告裡面寫到你們光抓到一百一十三年就抓到兩百三十萬包了嗎加熱菸對是加熱菸當然電子驗更不要講電子驗在煙海法治法完全是禁止的所以加熱菸它不禁止但是要審查所以現在問題是雖然"},{"start":11645.814,"end":11672.428,"text":"目前還沒有合法但是隨處可見走私猖獗查緝有但查緝的結果是讓很多人還是人手一樣人手一包啊所以兩位部長我們的問題在哪裡你們認為在哪裡認為我們的問題是出在衛福部的審查從一年到兩年到今天沒有進度對吧"},{"start":11674.437,"end":11685.062,"text":"邱部長,我覺得你已經回答很多了,很多委員都說了,到底問題出在哪裡?依據兩年前得審查的辦法,當時就設立審查的委員跟相關的辦法,那就請業者送上來。行政程序法有規定,我送給你,兩個月之內你要做處分。"},{"start":11697.428,"end":11722.771,"text":"那我們不主憤 一直擺著一年兩年 這跟行政程序法也不合嘛第三個就是 我們到底要管還是不要管啊我們知道它在 它存在 每個人都在用 但是我們不管而且走私一堆 抓到很多 然後審查很久這就是一個 該管不管 所以又坐視它這樣然後又去抓它違法 這個國家太矛盾了"},{"start":11724.193,"end":11743.428,"text":"報告委員這個我早上已經講過幾次這些問題我們政府會來解決它政府會來解決已經兩年了不是現在才解決我希望在你的任內今年要有個解決啦這個聽起來很可笑我們要管但是我們管不了但是大家都在用那我也抓不完"},{"start":11744.465,"end":11763.485,"text":"我們政府應該來解決這些問題他存在 不關我的事我只要求一個沒有人要因為要求你不開放就讓你放水我覺得不能放水但是你的速度也太慢了第三最重要的是嚴審之後就是納管"},{"start":11764.326,"end":11785.437,"text":"真的所謂的違法不合法的沒有經過相關審查通過的加強查緝該抓就抓重罰才有辦法讓合法的業者可以正常的生存不要都是靠走私然後每個人都知道那是走私的每個人都知道是從機場偷偷帶回來的機場也在抓但是"},{"start":11786.377,"end":11795.528,"text":"又很普遍的生活在我們的旁邊這很奇怪啦這太奇怪了所以我覺得這個問題是衛福部的問題還是財政部的問題衛福部你趕快合法他就趕快收錢啦不然我告訴你光現在走私的數量我們一年稅損達到13億啊"},{"start":11807.213,"end":11835.62,"text":"一塊錢也收不到啊好嗎 該怎麼做就要怎麼做吧不管你的時間怎麼樣 不能放水不能放水 但是不要再拖了合法就合法 不合法就不合法弄得現在大家確身不明沒有人知道發生什麼事然後每個人都在使用這實在太奇怪了好 第二個問題是在我們去年七月的時候說賴總統的政見是百億癌症新藥基金"},{"start":11837.045,"end":11852.772,"text":"我們今年編了50億的公務預算進入健保基金 接下去還要再補50億到100億然後去年的這個時候健保署的石崇良署長說要科冤"},{"start":11854.332,"end":11877.362,"text":"9捐來挹注相關的所謂的百億基金有沒有這回事沒有這回事那都是演繹而已啦演繹所以到今天為止我想建模署很用心在想各種方式來增加財源所以9捐不是衛福部的立場沒有我們沒有這種立場好那財政部我們有菸捐我們有沒有打算剋剋9捐呢"},{"start":11878.611,"end":11903.497,"text":"目前并没有这样的规划所以这个真的是不要乱说话啦如果没有就说没有另外我要问的是卫福部还有一个比较更奇怪的事情就是110年监察院对行政院纠正要求处理所谓的槟榔危害防治槟榔危害防治在卫福部12月已经完成预告草案"},{"start":11904.657,"end":11917.468,"text":"限制檳榔的銷售管道不可以賣給兒童跟青少年然後限制場域還有建立原料的檢驗機制這個法案草案過來以後目前的進度是怎麼樣部長你們暫緩了是嗎"},{"start":11922.096,"end":11940.046,"text":"沒有戰法 我們因為這牽涉到因為有人抗議了嘛所以必須要做好妥善的溝通社會溝通是一個我們政府必須要做的事情我同意但是推動戰法案也是一個要做的事檳榔人害防治是不是衛福部的重要政策"},{"start":11941.107,"end":11956.353,"text":"當然是重要政策是 會繼續推嗎一定會繼續推一定會繼續推因為監察院監察委員趙詠卿說如果你們不處理他不排除彈劾所以這件事情我覺得很重要啦如果我們對於煙要管對於酒要管"},{"start":11958.594,"end":11981.295,"text":"對於檳榔的危害 國人因為檳榔的危害口腔癌還是居高不下我們清洗再進行好不好 部長 如果是你的政策我覺得就要勇敢的推下去是的當然要解決業者他們碰到的困難但是不等於你要把他停下來否則 我是認為監察院已經說明了他不彈劾你就是他不對啊"},{"start":11982.142,"end":11999.705,"text":"好最後一個小問題就是這也不是小問題很大的問題我在這邊已經問了部長兩位部長多次了房地合一稅我們當時是要做居住正義用的但是97%都拿來做了長照這很奇怪"},{"start":12001.193,"end":12022.088,"text":"莊部長依規定 沒有規定啦後來你是被逼著要求說至少要給居住正義10%但是到現在也只撥了8.9%啊很少啊所以我要問的是邱部長你的長照現在是依靠所謂的移政稅 延稅"},{"start":12025.106,"end":12049.343,"text":"還有剛剛講的房地合一稅長照的金額一年已經高達900多億了房地合一稅是機會稅如果現在房地交易不多的話它可能會有來源的問題第二個 菸捐菸稅我們不希望它太多啊一證稅也是靠運氣靠機會所以台灣民眾黨已經提出了長照保險法"},{"start":12050.363,"end":12066.71,"text":"長照保險法就類似健保我們希望每個人現在出一點照顧未來的自己長照保險對於行政院來說對於衛福部來說你們完全靠這些不確定的稅額其實長照"},{"start":12068.431,"end":12096.29,"text":"的資金其實長期來說我們擔心它的不穩定性邱部長你對長照保險有沒有想法我問過你你去過日本考察也在議事公會這邊舉辦過相關的座談會所以部長我想問問你對長照保險接下來這個財源不是那麼穩定的情況下衛福部打算怎麼在長照以後3.0以後要不要退長照保險法"},{"start":12097.404,"end":12108.236,"text":"報告委員我分兩點報告第一個就是說113年底長照基金還有2039億元現在還夠以後可能就不一定夠我們今年的1月到5月收入就341億元所以現在目前來講還是可以支應"},{"start":12116.986,"end":12133.134,"text":"那至於說任何一個財務的規劃我覺得我們是必須要去考慮到利弊得失現在有荷蘭有德國有日本可以讓你抄啊我覺得這些政策至少部長我覺得要有態度啦方向我想財務的規劃政府應該負責任的讓它穩定"},{"start":12144.52,"end":12158.779,"text":"所以要人民自己出一點大家一起出一點政府出一點才有辦法真正做到長治久安因為現在每年靠這些稅900多億 900多億是砸在水裡面"},{"start":12159.58,"end":12180.215,"text":"就不見了 就不見了而且長照3.0對於中重症要加強照顧現在的長照2.0對於中重症沒有辦法做好完整的照顧各位 3.0這個部分都會加強是 所以我要說的是部長應該對於長照保是不是將來要推長照保險要有一些想法"},{"start":12181.069,"end":12206.839,"text":"日本、荷蘭跟德國其實都有很完善的長照保險長照保險在國民黨的智庫做的民調77.3%的民眾也都支持我相信這個是在野黨大力推展的你將來也會面對這個政策要不要來處理我們推了主權基金現在行政院也願意推我們現在推長照保險我相信將來"},{"start":12208.34,"end":12219.515,"text":"不管是行政院或者是衛福部也會面對在野黨提出來行政院必須要的態度跟目標跟方向我希望部長你至少給我一個"},{"start":12221.192,"end":12241.643,"text":"你們可以去演繹你們對於這個的態度你不一定要有具體的內容但是你要告訴我說接下來去長照3.0的內容跟將來長照保險長期的規劃是一個長治久安一二十年的計畫報告委員長照3.0的不管是它的內容跟財務我們都有做頭上的評估"},{"start":12242.603,"end":12258.668,"text":"那至於說長照到底是稅收或者是由社會保險其實國際間大部分的國家還是稅收少部分採社會保險那日本開辦長照保險其實還是公務預算要撥半數以上"},{"start":12259.428,"end":12263.49,"text":"所以政府要出來就跟健保一樣當學者在談論一個事情的時候好像很簡單說這樣看起來比較好可是當我們在想的時候就要看到人民的反應譬如說你們要年輕人所以要討論我也沒有意見我也沒有定見我只是說部長我們要不要有態度這個態度可能是希望你一個月給我一個書面的回答我們會書面回答"},{"start":12287.101,"end":12294.667,"text":"對高人化的社會 我們的照顧絕對是更多我們一起來努力好 那我等你的書面回覆好 下一位請往事監委員質詢謝謝主席 我請財政部中部長財政部中部長"},{"start":12319.232,"end":12340.55,"text":"委員好部長我還是前幾天的這個問題就是說為什麼民眾實際支出生育的手術費那麼他可否抵稅還要取決於說這個診所是不是報稅完備是不是會計紀錄完備"},{"start":12348.322,"end":12371.519,"text":"為什麼啦 為什麼 我前幾天就在講說我們就講我們國家的生育率我們台灣已經躍升為全世界生育率最低的國家欸我們四月份生不到一萬人 八千六百人 比去年同期少了二十趴"},{"start":12372.847,"end":12393.179,"text":"我們平均每一位國人的女性同胞平均生育0.8位這已經低於日本那麼低生育率的日本喔他1.3位我們0.8位所以現在生育率過低"},{"start":12394.622,"end":12409.892,"text":"已經是我們的國安問題啦也就是說提高生育率是我們國家政策也是各部會機關大家應該積極配合去促成的結果 欸 衛福部"},{"start":12414.98,"end":12425.713,"text":"人家國建署 各單位 教育部 他們都大家在配合宣導 在鼓勵獨獨財政部 我不懂為什麼啦 那也就是說"},{"start":12433.499,"end":12447.959,"text":"你們財政部用我不給你抵稅用這個來逼生育的國人同胞逼他們去幫財政部查稅查看看這個診所"},{"start":12450.462,"end":12473.041,"text":"這家醫院是不是報稅紀錄完備這很奇怪該查診所或醫院是不是有完整的會計紀錄完整的報稅這個是財政部的職責但是不能便於形式不是嗎你財政部竟然駕馭"},{"start":12475.27,"end":12503.878,"text":"各個機關部會幫你們去查稅又不能抵稅用懲罰民眾來達成你們的目的這很奇怪難道我前幾天質詢之後你給我的公文答覆我才發現欸糟糕還更慘你答覆我裡面你自己還從實招來你說去年啊四月份你們就發文給衛福部說你們還進一步說"},{"start":12505.307,"end":12531.733,"text":"人工生殖補助方案應該限縮在你們財政部要求的要會計記錄完備的診所天啊天啊還好還好當時衛福部的答覆很好衛福部說縮小補助範圍會影響民眾就醫的可敬信他用這個把你拒絕掉啊他們是正確的"},{"start":12535.066,"end":12551.791,"text":"而且人工生殖補助啊這個診所是不是合格合規這是國健署他們去合格 他們針對醫療專業去看這個醫師技術夠不夠水準是不是達到 設備規模是不是可以他們就專業的評估去通過的"},{"start":12562.864,"end":12583.583,"text":"而且人工生育的補助本來就健保沒有這一部分嘛他是要自費那自費當然人家民眾自然是自費他就針對隱私性跟就醫的方便性民眾當然會選擇自費診所嘛"},{"start":12586.582,"end":12597.736,"text":"所以對於自費診所或者醫院他是不是報稅紀錄完備財政部應該自己去查查就如同"},{"start":12599.028,"end":12626.547,"text":"就如同財政部現在我們針對民眾你如果租屋 租金你可以來抵稅報這個你要求的也只是說你那個租金是不是你實質有租金的支出的這個憑證這樣就好嘛你會去要求說你要提出你的房東他報稅紀錄是否完備嗎沒有嘛"},{"start":12627.452,"end":12649.65,"text":"不是嗎所以我不懂我不懂那個部長我到現在一直不懂你們為什麼這麼執著這一點啦要獎勵我們國人同胞要獎勵大家聲譽這個是國安問題國家的政策我希望你能夠配合而且喔部長我"},{"start":12654.793,"end":12680.574,"text":"看你這一年多來吼我的看法 我認為你確實你是奉公守法啦但是奉公守法只是部長們 只是官員們你們該做的第一步而已耶那如果我看你這一年多來的表現我八個字形容你是莫守成規 便宜行事不是這樣嗎"},{"start":12681.912,"end":12703.228,"text":"我一再的 一再多次質詢裡面我一再的說希望財政部在你的領導下能夠四個字 與時俱進各項的稅法我們該用綠色稅制的就用綠色稅制不合一的娛樂稅"},{"start":12707.192,"end":12719.064,"text":"這個印花稅包括昨天我們討論半天那個小家電那個近乎擾民我們列舉了這些小家電一年這個貨物稅收11億"},{"start":12721.52,"end":12737.851,"text":"結果不但擾民過去我們要收的部分是因為說這些小家電是奢侈品現在時代這麼進步啦這些小家電是家家戶戶必備的結果昨天討論了半天 一樣"},{"start":12739.754,"end":12756.893,"text":"你確實是規規矩矩的你就是死不讓步昨天討論了一整天半天十億多我們大概好像只減了三千多萬你真的這個部分我希望"},{"start":12759.448,"end":12782.369,"text":"能夠與時俱進十一億元去擾民我們一年收入是國家稅收是三兆一千億耶天啊那連尾數的尾數的尾數好不好我希望你四個字與時俱進然後我今天繼續質詢你的這件事情就是說"},{"start":12785.037,"end":12813.087,"text":"這個診所是不是報稅紀錄完備這個不應該列為我們民眾生育支出那麼去抵稅不應該列為這個裡面的條件可不可以不鼓勵都來不及了嘛好不好謝謝委員的指教我想這個部分的生育跟因為他是跟醫療是一起在裡面的所以他有一定的一個"},{"start":12813.905,"end":12815.29,"text":"部分的處理是"},{"start":12817.223,"end":12845.498,"text":"那你我希望你還是給我答覆啦你不能推給說啊這個法令啊這個什麼法令你可以財政部一天到晚自己主動提出修法的太多啦你們主動提出由行政院提出來這個很簡單就解決啦好不好我希望你重新給我一份答覆好謝謝委員謝謝你請你請回抱歉時間在我請那個衛福部邱部長邱部長請"},{"start":12848.803,"end":12871.136,"text":"那個 吳院長邱部長兩個問題第一個問題就是說最近啦 這個毒品氮濫透過電子菸那麼更滲入到青少年朋友尤其有一種新的這個伊朵米子就是喪屍煙彈那這個部分我們"},{"start":12875.27,"end":12888,"text":"教育部統計我們高中職學生我們以112學年度來講558000位那麼國健署也有統計說大概大概初高中生有6.3%那會使用這個電子菸"},{"start":12892.503,"end":12915.53,"text":"那電子煙我們現在嚴禁因為它的煙油裡面會參入這一些會毒害青少年朋友的所以如果照6.3%55萬8千位光高中職生喔那應該會有3.5萬極可能使用電子煙的我們的青年朋友但是"},{"start":12917.571,"end":12927.739,"text":"我查了一下你們兩年來衛福部中央跟地方衛生局我們所查獲開立處分數的這1021件我認為這個比例過低我們已是會使用電子菸這個數字已經是少估"},{"start":12939.227,"end":12959.515,"text":"然後你兩年只查緝一千零二十一件我認為這個查緝不夠徹底所以我希望在這個部分可以加強可不可以因為你像菸娟啊我們收了兩百六十四億那你有九成用在我們醫療保健這是對的但是"},{"start":12961.104,"end":12985.701,"text":"用在要對青少年朋友的這個宣導的部分我認為應該提升也就是說我們要進校園去宣導而且要加強查緝好不好你要通令各市政府各地方政府衛生局請他們大家一起通令"},{"start":12986.161,"end":12990.365,"text":"合作 是的 我們中央金融會一起努力謝謝王國英的諮詢好 下一位請葉元哲 王國英諮詢 請麻煩請衛福部長那就不上去"},{"start":13013.745,"end":13036.527,"text":"反映一個基層的醫療現象最近有民眾他為了要買一個眼藥水去社區藥局大概跑了十家才買到那我不知道部長你有沒有掌握現在真的很多民眾去藥局買處方簽的就領處方簽的藥很難說第一家就有啦都要跑好幾家其實這個造成民眾很大的一個"},{"start":13037.828,"end":13046.935,"text":"負擔那有的時候想說那乾脆去醫院靈好了醫院沒有缺藥但是社區藥局缺處方藥的狀況非常嚴重部長知道嗎"},{"start":13049.84,"end":13073.486,"text":"這個當然我們一直這幾年來都在觀察這個現象觀察你要解決這個現象部長我跟你講因為我們也是有去詢問一下社區藥局為什麼會出現這種情況因為你只有觀察我也有去了解他們的講法是說第一個這些藥可能醫院有但是配額的問題所以醫院沒問題但是配到社區藥局就不夠了這是第一個問題是的"},{"start":13075.146,"end":13098.846,"text":"所以其實是建議說是不是可以適當的讓社區藥局也能夠有足夠的藥那當然還有其他的原因啦譬如說現在社區藥局他們要買藥有的藥商都會訂一個低銷啦說你要跟我買藥就是要比如說一萬塊他本來買藥可能只要買三千塊但是為了要買那三千塊的藥另外再湊七千塊"},{"start":13099.887,"end":13117.793,"text":"那7000塊的藥也許他本來就有庫存他就先買來放著那放久了也有可能如果沒有人去買的話就過期了所以會降低一些他們去買藥的意願還有一個是因為現在藥商賣藥都是整裝嘛比如說一次就賣個500顆可是有人去領處方籤藥可能一次只需要28顆啊"},{"start":13123.075,"end":13140.992,"text":"他為了這28顆就買500顆然後買500顆如果他剩下的400多顆沒有人來領的話他就全部都血本無歸啊所以現在的社區藥局其實在經營上面有遇到很大的困難是的特別是回到第一點就是那個缺藥的問題我希望說部長可以"},{"start":13141.693,"end":13161.728,"text":"你真的去了解一下啦因為我覺得這不是幫社區藥局發聲其實這是為基層民眾發聲我們要讓民眾在很便利的狀況底下在藥局都可以領到藥嘛而不是說好像不曉得說要去哪裡跑來跑去跑去都領不到我覺得這是一個很大的困擾部長你有辦法去"},{"start":13162.609,"end":13180.718,"text":"去解決這個問題嗎謝謝委員也謝謝委員真的是了解到他們社區藥局碰到的問題這些問題我們都清楚因為他也牽涉到自己本身大小藥局還有現在聯手藥局也很多那真的是社區藥局"},{"start":13182.979,"end":13208.694,"text":"他的購買力真的是比較低那我們很希望啦如果你站在醫療院所常常在反應說我現在開除了結果那個藥劑而已甚至比較少的藥領不到這個也造成不方便所以這樣一定要來解決這個問題那現在目前碰到的問題以及解決的方式是不是讓我請食藥署王副署長簡單的跟"},{"start":13210.215,"end":13236.868,"text":"副委員報告一下簡單講一下是委員好其實針對這個部分我們在去年就已經跟這個藥食公會全聯會有合作目前在食藥署的網站上我們有建置一個藥品供應資訊平台那透過這個平台我們目前跟國內的藥品中盤商大概12個中盤商都有做連線合作所以如果個別的社區藥局他對於購買藥品像有剛委員有提到數量少或者這個藥商不願意供應這個狀況那他可以透過這12個中盤商去查詢他個別的庫存"},{"start":13237.788,"end":13247.498,"text":"那上面也有他們個別可以聯絡購買的方式希望透過這種方式能夠解決剛剛委員所說部長我跟你講齁你剛剛講說你這個機制去年提出來的嘛"},{"start":13248.5,"end":13276.556,"text":"已經在執行了在執行的嘛但我告訴你我了解的是最近的狀況嘛所以代表你的機制跟執行有落差嘛那我實際上我也有之前我也有詢問過部長有關於缺藥問題部長是說我們有個缺藥平台嘛所以我也是有問那個社區藥局說啊你們都沒有去缺藥平台登錄嗎他們回答說登錄啊啊就只是登錄啊沒有回應啊比如說他登錄缺什麼藥那衛福部確實會去跟藥商詢問但是藥商跟衛福部報的數量"},{"start":13277.436,"end":13297.373,"text":"人家還是買不到啊就買不到就是買不到啊所以導致一種情形是社區藥局到後面是連登錄都懶得登錄啦因為覺得不會有回應所以連登錄都懶得登錄因此你衛福部你掌握實際狀況跟基層實際狀況有很大的落差因為你的機制跟系統不被信任"},{"start":13298.214,"end":13320.621,"text":"所以我覺得其實你如果真心的要去了解狀況的話你可以趕快去你可以去幾個社區藥局問問看嘛不見得都跟全聯會去調查一下他們會跟你講因為我跑幾家講的差不多都是一樣的問題你會聽到很真實的聲音但前提就是我覺得不是說只了解要趕快解決因為這真的是解決民眾的問題我們馬上去理解好不好馬上去理解"},{"start":13325.602,"end":13327.863,"text":"主席麻煩我們的邱部長邱部長請委員好"},{"start":13354.532,"end":13354.673,"text":"邱部長"},{"start":13359.127,"end":13386.565,"text":"因為整體的煙害防治法的主管機關還是在衛福部而且上個月衛福部也跨部會召開了電子煙品的那個查緝平台部長最近有很多聲音都說電子煙抓不完危害反而也沒這麼大乾脆就開放算了所以我想問清楚全面禁止電子煙還是不是我們國家政策會不會鬆動"},{"start":13389.026,"end":13414.157,"text":"為什麼要這樣問呢因為昨天BBC才報導說像英國也開放收緊電子菸管制因為各國的經驗都顯示電子菸便宜好買很容易吸引青少年那一旦習慣了後果就很難處理尤其是法規不清執法不立的情況下這些東西根本就是藏在社區裡面甚至變成藥物濫用的入口所以部長你覺得台灣的青少年"},{"start":13415.18,"end":13418.417,"text":"現在到底好不好能夠容易買得到電子煙啊"},{"start":13420.407,"end":13444.455,"text":"部長你覺得他們真的知道這些電子煙是違法的嗎因為電子煙我們是沒有規劃有任何開放的方向可是有社工告訴我們有少年甚至拿著煙害防治法跟他們說裡面又沒有寫電子煙違法我知道法裡面那現在都叫做類煙品的原因那當然"},{"start":13444.955,"end":13474.057,"text":"社會大眾尤其青少年對這塊的理解還是不夠清楚這要麻煩部會宣傳你一定要趕快補上讓大家知道否則他拿著說沒有啊今天又沒有講說電子菸事實上是違法的不然今天要討論的事實上是茶氣那我就要讓你知道現在很多青少年不是只買電子菸那還被拉進銷售鏈裡面變成中間人可以看到這流程圖就知道今天照片事實上是青少年實際跟社工分享的"},{"start":13474.417,"end":13497.085,"text":"他們透過LINE IG TRADE聊天的群組裡面接觸到電子業還被上游廠商用代理利潤發放這邊寫得很清楚代理利潤發放是想每個月賺點零用錢的夥伴們說巴士我來教學你然後銷售技巧品牌的認定全管事實上是代理的是正品這樣子的一個"},{"start":13499.506,"end":13527.423,"text":"找下限的方式來層層分類所以我想問部長這樣的行為是不是已經違法 陰害防治法第32條販售最高可罰到100萬另外如果在這群組裡面招募的訊息是不是也違反了第31條要罰20萬所以部長在這裡針對這些案例來清楚說明那現在到底我們青少年有沒有意識到這樣子的違法跟相關的裁處的額度"},{"start":13528.283,"end":13543.717,"text":"看起來我覺得是沒有 因為為什麼他們都認為事實上這樣是可以去販賣的那他們現在也在做人家的下線那部長 以貨溯源是你們上個月衛福部電子菸茶器平台的重要議題那這兩張圖"},{"start":13546.079,"end":13568.022,"text":"我想部長看得很清楚 這就是青少年當下線的時候拿上游廠商的圖在宣傳 宣傳什麼呢貨源穩定 出貨包貨 忙到手軟 這不是個案是不同的縣市社工都跟我分享類似的訊息這是一個地下行銷鏈的現象 所以"},{"start":13568.683,"end":13592.802,"text":"部長我們如果比對國外的話台灣銷售電子菸的價格其實不高如同這張青少年分享的廣告貨源非常的充足最新型號一應俱全青少年甚至跟我們的社工分享說他覺得不好賺為什麼因為利潤低而進貨簡單這表示走私成本非常的低然後進貨難度非常的小所以青少年不只是能買"},{"start":13593.843,"end":13615.208,"text":"還能賣 甚至實體店面也買得到所以問部長 我們現在的查緝系統到底有沒有辦法追到這些貨源我說我剛剛講 你剛剛前面你們自己上個月開會的時候就說要與貨溯源所以想問一下說因為能不能對應這種聊天式的分享的內容分散式的地下交易"},{"start":13616.818,"end":13623.981,"text":"報告委員 我想我剛剛看到你這兩三張powerpoint呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦呦"},{"start":13646.85,"end":13670.836,"text":"專家寫者共同來電子煙查緝平台的會議由各方面來處理 從研討 換售及民眾啟用我們一定要沒有落實的 我們一定馬上再落實道義師 稍微給我一點點時間好 等我一下那像這種未成年在聊天室下廣告當下線所以部長有沒有實際的裁罰的數量有沒有裁罰的數量"},{"start":13675.681,"end":13701.291,"text":"跟委員報告一下那這個部分的話我目前沒有分出來的確是在提供會後是不是在提供還有我覺得還是要看一看因為現在是現場的老師跟社工都不知道怎麼處理因為為什麼未成年販售使用電子鹽都在問政府單位說家長這些到底要怎麼應對所以我也希望這個麻煩我覺得衛福部這邊是不是可以幫我"},{"start":13702.151,"end":13726.298,"text":"提供相關的處理的機制讓學校的社工讓學校的老師跟社工知道你們的處理機制是什麼所以我希望衛福部一個月內提供我這兩項就衛生年販售電子菸的地下經濟應對的策略跟適用法規還有關西人跟校園處理電子菸的流程指引一個月內好沒問題我們一定會來提供好謝謝李國恩的諮詢下面請王立民的諮詢請"},{"start":13737.625,"end":13742.128,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請衛福部部長衛福部長,WHO今年再度示警,青少年吸食電子煙成癮氾濫的問題其實是非常嚴重"},{"start":13758.869,"end":13786.472,"text":"這個它統計全球大概有3700萬的青少年吸食菸品電子菸瀏覽超過34億次然後許多國家的青少年電子菸吸食率高於成年人那在國內我們看到無論是高中生或者是國中生他們吸食電子菸的比例也都是呈現上升的一個情況但是衛福部查緝非法的網站只罰了7件"},{"start":13787.292,"end":13796.841,"text":"總金額一千零四十萬為什麼這麼多非法的電子菸在網路上面販售我們現在只罰了七件我想划的一個數目是不是請吳署長這邊報告一下"},{"start":13807.413,"end":13829.226,"text":"來 署長請說跟委員報告那我們的確看到如委員所示的狀況所以呢我們這兩年裡面來講從稽查然後到追嚴到現在的裁處那其實所有的裁處從去年的去年底才開始有裁處的動作那現在的業者配合以今年度來講我們大概像相關"},{"start":13830.126,"end":13847.528,"text":"委員所呈現的這些數字的話已經獲得相當的改善尤其是今年度包括Google、Meta、Swede、旋轉平台各類的網路平台目前的話都配合我們相關的政策那主動的做類組管理還有我們通報以後下架跟前期解析的部分"},{"start":13847.708,"end":13866.98,"text":"我要求一些非法網站刊登電子煙你們一定要全力去阻斷不能讓青少年去接觸另外一個5月27號電子煙茶器平台已經成立了那各部會的分工為何我要請今天的法務部也上來法務部是不是你們的成員"},{"start":13868.181,"end":13884.959,"text":"法務部的主任檢察官是的沒有檢察官在非法查緝的這一塊來 法務部的代表你們在報告裡面說這個是我看到另外一個更嚴重的部分請法務部的代表來是哪一位是委員好"},{"start":13887.844,"end":13907.538,"text":"你們自己在報告裡面說有不肖的業者將新興毒品添加到電子煙油當中在夜店或社群跟年輕族群兜售這個其實是很嚴重的俗稱上頭煙睡眠煙彈喪失煙彈強害身心健康治具"},{"start":13908.619,"end":13926.122,"text":"這件事情我覺得這個比吸食電子鹽本身還要再更嚴重數百倍因為它已經是吸毒是犯法然後它添加在這裡面讓這一些年輕人吸食或是青少年吸食那這一部分法務部你的查緝行動是什麼"},{"start":13926.442,"end":13941.414,"text":"因為我看你通篇的報告你們查緝了多少這種添加毒品到電子煙油當中的這個你破獲了多少你們追查了多少在你的報告裡面通通都沒有提那你是不是可以告訴本席你們具體查獲的數字"},{"start":13949.586,"end":13976.697,"text":"報告委員就是有關這個新興毒品有加入這個電子菸裡面其實我們都有責稱台高檢署持續辦理安居專案你們破獲多少案件你告訴本席有關這個安居專案第12波的部分像是有關這個伊托米之類其實已經有查到300多公斤幾件 你講清楚一點幾件我們是以查獲毒品的重量來計算"},{"start":13978.601,"end":14005.198,"text":"查獲毒品我是說這個電子菸裡面參有毒品的人查獲多少數量電子菸的部分這個數據可能要再確認因為電子菸的部分原則上還是有衛福部在辦理我們主要是處理毒品所以我們是記辦毒品的部分這個就是我要點出的問題關於已經涉及毒品我覺得法務部的角色太被動你認為主辦還是衛福部但是這個其實是涉及到犯罪應該法務部的主動性角色要很強這個今天就是我要點出的問題"},{"start":14006.158,"end":14034.321,"text":"既然已經成立電子菸茶器平台那每一個部會應該都有主動性的角色而不是全部都是衛福部像這個已經涉及到犯罪這個去偵辦犯罪是你法務部你的職責啊不是去被動式的配合這個衛福部啊你應該要主動去偵辦的能力啊因為這一塊是跟毒品是整個連動在一起的那茶器毒品就是你法務部這個你的職責是所在所以這一塊啊我要求這個法務部"},{"start":14035.302,"end":14054.981,"text":"你們在這一塊你們應該要有一個專案好好的來查緝喔因為這個其實對於年輕人的危害真的是太重大了因為他是假冒成電子煙讓他不知情的情況去吸毒那這個其實是對於這個青少年或年輕人來講這個部分是真的很嚴重喔所以這個最後這個部長我要要求你們你們的這個電子煙查緝平台喔"},{"start":14060.026,"end":14085.215,"text":"立案是5月27號成立那各部會的這個責任要非常的明確我們有強化各任務分組然後那個主動性要出來而且你們定期的成效要跟外界來做報告這一個部分我希望你那個書面要給本席然後要定期公佈你們的成效在這一個部分我覺得啦就是查緝電子業不是只有衛福部啦"},{"start":14086.075,"end":14096.699,"text":"這個法務部也要動起來速發部也要動起來這個是每一個部會如果組成這樣的一個查緝平台大家都有主動性的責任大家一起來防治這個電子煙氾濫的問題好不好好 是的好 謝謝謝謝委員會的諮詢 下一位請國民財委的諮詢 請"},{"start":14107.811,"end":14109.953,"text":"長期以來對於老人的福利健康我是最關心的我們一直在推動"},{"start":14130.165,"end":14153.882,"text":"巴士量表可以不要造成大家的困擾所以80歲以上免巴士量表就可以來聘請外來來照顧來幫助一些年輕人以前有很多像花旗銀行的那個管理總很優秀後來他沒辦法我說你怎麼會離開職場呢他說他爸爸只有一個"},{"start":14155.117,"end":14173.836,"text":"所以找不到人他就自己跳下去照顧啊那麼好的人才對不對那金融他算是很棒的一個人就是這樣的一個例子請問部長免巴士量表這個什麼時候開始實施80歲以上免巴士量表應該是7月1號"},{"start":14178.726,"end":14200.563,"text":"企業底,勞動部有表達配套措施,在企業底能夠完成就可以開始了這也是一個得證,因為需要的人真的蠻多的希望多多可以加強輔導一下有需要的人不知道怎麼申請的,可以來輔導"},{"start":14201.604,"end":14225.854,"text":"或者是做一些宣傳宣傳一下我看到路上很多都寫一個紅布條大大的一條說全面禁止電子菸我看很多學校門口台北上端外面都有我看了很振奮我覺得那個布條要多貼可是問題貼了有沒有效果"},{"start":14226.943,"end":14233.246,"text":"應該有效果有效果那現在那個抓到抽電子菸的會怎麼處罰那要分他看他是看他是那個從源頭或者是分或者是販售或者是那個個人那當然我們都會按照法規的規定來抽電子菸會不會那個判刑"},{"start":14256.892,"end":14282.105,"text":"本身喔?對蛤?罰款嗎?罰款,請那一位先生來來,吳署長,吳署長我想在使用者使用者會怎麼樣?使用者的話就是最高罰一萬罰一萬塊?是加強宣導好不好?好,謝謝你說罰一萬,根本沒在罰啊有啦有啦我周邊所有人齁,我遇到的人從來沒有一個人被罰過蛤?"},{"start":14285.866,"end":14312.39,"text":"當然你會說因為我旁邊都沒有人抽電子菸啊沒有抽到沒被訪可是有一些人有抽特別是年輕人因為本席有接觸就是士農工商年輕朋友有辦很多活動他們也不講說他有抽啦我看他手上就握了一支然後嘴巴就偷偷這樣比一下比一下後來我才知道不是在吃口香糖是在抽電子菸"},{"start":14314.594,"end":14338.335,"text":"像這樣子你要怎麼抓電子煙電子煙其實禍國殃民請問部長我們一直說禁電子煙全台灣有多少支電子煙有多少人吃電子煙有多少根 那個好像可以重複抽"},{"start":14339.697,"end":14368.402,"text":"電子煙多少根喔請旁邊的那個有沒有統計知道你大概粗估有多少根電子煙它就是煙油加上一個載具那個煙油是可以替換載具可以重複使用抽的時候必須要有那個就叫載具啦就要有那一根嘛那一支電子煙全台灣有幾支電子煙這個沒有統計大概不知道那接著請財政部部長"},{"start":14371.104,"end":14398.255,"text":"部長,坊間到處都在賣啊那重點是還有一些人從國外、日本或者是香港進來的時候欸?海關他就帶進來了啊你們抓不抓?會被處罰?超過10根、超過100根你們做什麼樣的處罰?一根就會抓"},{"start":14398.922,"end":14416,"text":"一根就會抓 抓到會怎麼樣這個部分我們是不是請我們關務署署長來說明報告委員 加熱菸的部分它是因為現在都沒有通過健康風險評估所以我們是依照這個菸害防治法 移給地方的衛生局"},{"start":14416.772,"end":14439.022,"text":"那抓不抓抓那你從頭抓了多少目前電子菸的部分已經抓了47萬多條47萬多條47萬啊對 剛剛加熱菸的部分我更正一下這個數字很大耶加熱菸的部分47萬47萬是那我們一年大概一根電子菸多少錢"},{"start":14441.092,"end":14462.72,"text":"電子菸喔電子菸喔抱歉我不曉得我看很多人就是想辦法在國外買了以後帶回來賣啊那為什麼他會帶回來賣有利可圖啊就是他可能在國外甚至國外的免稅商店都有在販售他可能買一支一支大概多少錢要不要一百塊"},{"start":14471.677,"end":14483.366,"text":"一根起碼我覺得應該是一千塊以上不曉得對不對有沒有官員知道後面有人點頭一根多少錢那個戴口罩那位美女"},{"start":14487.018,"end":14506.19,"text":"這個各個國家賣的不太一樣那是以加熱煙的載具的話加熱煙的載具大概在800到1200電子煙的載具就比較便宜我猜對了你看大概1000電子煙的載具更便宜那他1000他帶回來在這個私底下這樣販售可以賺多少錢"},{"start":14508.905,"end":14526.639,"text":"以目前台灣的電子煙的那個載具在販售的話那從兩千塊到六千塊都有你看兩千六千所以他走私一根他賣一根就可以賺兩根啊這個利潤很高啊比去賣血還好賺"},{"start":14529.656,"end":14558.24,"text":"所以這個要從源頭看看怎麼樣如果是覺得說電子煙不好對下一代是一種強害是對我們的國民健康是有影響的大家要動起來特別麻煩莊部長那邊要好好處理一下平台你們要去好好整頓一下新加坡新加坡應該就沒有"},{"start":14559.708,"end":14586.896,"text":"嚴刑峻罰嘛七十八年吃口香腸你吐在路上馬上都被抓而且處罰嚴格所以接著請莊部長這部分麻煩你再想一下我現在那個其他人可以回去謝謝那部長我問一下現在的美國的關稅戰因為海關關稅這個都你管的現在情況到底怎麼樣"},{"start":14588.482,"end":14608.967,"text":"還有沒有在談 還是我們已經通過檢驗對等關稅的部分 行政院會有政府院長還有OTN他們在跟美國持續的而且密切的在溝通當中那上一次談是什麼時候 談的情況還好嗎"},{"start":14611.651,"end":14632.865,"text":"我想這個部分基於雙方的一個默契還不便對外說明那在適當時機的時候才會說明那談的時候你有沒有去參與過我想這個部分也不好在這邊說也是秘密喔秘密好多耶全國的民眾都不曉得秘密的答案是什麼我們就每天"},{"start":14635.246,"end":14651.339,"text":"整個待旦然後一些企業中小企業都不曉得怎麼辦是要等三個月過還是要折磨半年到一年通通不知道我想我們的談判小組一定會就國家整體的考量為國內以及產業爭取一個最大的利益對啊那問題是這些企業怎麼生存"},{"start":14664.066,"end":14688.316,"text":"其實大家都很苦,不曉得怎麼辦政府也提出了支持方案,我想在這個部分也編列了特別預算要在陳情大院這邊來做審議你們編預算他們都還沒領到啊因為預算還沒有過啊,特別預算一直還沒有審議過啊所有預算都這樣,大家一直在等那個一人領一萬的普發現金等到現在錢也還沒下來"},{"start":14690.539,"end":14700.743,"text":"我講你要動起來啦我們每個人都希望說政府要多多照顧去年稅收超徵5280億不是沒錢啊所以政府也編列了相關的預算做支持措施你出去有機會去吃一下魷魚羹跟那個炒米粉你知道現在一桌要多少錢一桌就是一碗羹加一碗炒米粉"},{"start":14720.205,"end":14739.329,"text":"以前我吃大概五六十塊 現在一百四十塊有空你去吃吃看所以一萬塊普發先進 還是有它的必要性通貨膨脹 物價飆漲 人民苦咖拜託部長也多講講好話多多動起來 謝謝好 謝謝羅明財委員的資訊下一位請 陳昭志委員資訊 請"},{"start":14748.783,"end":14751.831,"text":"謝謝主席 有請邱部長邱部長謝謝 麻煩邱部長"},{"start":14758.533,"end":14765.876,"text":"兩年前煙害防治法他修法了他把這個加熱菸納管也就是說加熱菸只要審查通過那就可以來合格在台灣上市使用可是修法已經過了兩年到目前為止還沒有任何一件審查案通過可是國健署今年初有講他說第一件這個加熱菸的健康風險評估在四月的時候會出爐"},{"start":14784.922,"end":14796.333,"text":"但是我們去查國建署的這個網站他所公布的進度目前為止所有都還在審查中請問國建署是受到壓力還是有意有意要拖延呢兩年多來沒有一件通過然後今年初四月會通過第一件"},{"start":14806.391,"end":14831.336,"text":"謝謝委員的詢問 因為大家很清楚 委員也是專家健康風險評估審查 我們是委員會 依法審查我們都尊重委員的專列以人民的健康為主我們講的是說那個期限可能到4月底那我們期待4月底能夠有一個答案當然是這樣的一個想法主長我只是想提醒 健康風險評估是科學啦"},{"start":14834.957,"end":14859.446,"text":"結果要不要公佈不要變成政治因為大家都心知肚明台灣現在很多人都在抽加熱菸立法院有好幾位委員在抽但其實這都是違法的那你這樣拖著結果是什麼樣讓人民無所適從你要合法的人守法的人他就在等結果可以抽就抽也許不能就不能但是你不守法變最大變最大"},{"start":14862.627,"end":14874.854,"text":"情況就是如此 加熱菸滿街 剛剛滿街跑 大家都 每個委員都提到了博定 我是要跟你說 你要抓一百個人 還可以抓啦如果有一百萬人要抓的話 你怎麼進行呢 博定所以要趕快公佈審查結果啊 不要拖啊什麼時候公佈結果呢"},{"start":14885.067,"end":14907.365,"text":"包委員 我想今天我一直在提過 這個審查我們是按照規定的 兩年前的辦法沒有啦 委員會我也參加一大票啊那審查這麼久了 兩年多你也知道說 這其實都要尊重你又不審查要價 你是審查價格 你是審查風險評估 這是科學啊科學多少證據就講出來啊 就是這樣啊"},{"start":14908.065,"end":14921.776,"text":"據我了解其實他們才看的真的是很多需要科學的根據那所以一直要業者一直在科學就科學就是說科學不要當政治處理加熱菸我覺得就是我在衛法院主委常常跟你講那句話"},{"start":14923.337,"end":14933.283,"text":"這個就像有一隻大象在房間裡嘛那個英文叫There is an elephant in the room嘛就是大家都視而不見大象那麼大 這樣當作沒看到當作沒有看到啊那根據煙害防止法其實合法的止煙都不可以在網路上販賣喔可是現在網路上你隨便Google都能買到違法未經政府允許的許可的加熱煙你看看 你看中間那個黃色的那個地方"},{"start":14949.434,"end":14961.773,"text":"賣家還宣稱 三天到貨品質保證 健康享受保定你就放任這個東西這樣放的嗎蓄意放水 還是你根本沒有能力處理你看廣告成這個樣子"},{"start":14963.823,"end":14990.1,"text":"報告委員 那個其實在過去我們妨礙到這個菸奶防治法的案件我們已經處理了四萬六千多件尤其在今年一百一十四年監測案件裡面下架啦 把它下架的有九十四%我只是跟你說 還很多啦所以你越不快 趕快處理這個事情你就拖越久嘛 等幾百萬人你就管不了我想這些問題我們有責任把它處理好我們也會負責任的來把它處理好"},{"start":14992.882,"end":15020.764,"text":"我們再說 加熱煙是可以有條件審查通過 電子煙是禁止的除了對這個健康是高風險的危害那也很容易放入毒品是不是例如易脫米子就是俗稱的喪屍的煙彈你去問任何一個第一線的員警他們都知道現在是氾濫成災但衛福部的預告的煙害防治法我要請大家聽清楚你只強調販售端跟製造端的規範卻沒有禁止持有"},{"start":15021.645,"end":15040.518,"text":"那你叫那第一線的警察無法查緝啊也沒辦法沒辦法沒辦法銷毀啊部長你如果不去禁止持有你要怎麼杜絕上市煙彈呢而且電子煙就是上市煙彈的載具嘛他是他的載具嘛你不從源頭著手那你這個法你怎麼杜絕呢"},{"start":15041.078,"end":15059.271,"text":"我們當然有從源頭還有換賣抓到以後以前地方政府在抓的時候他們最大的問題是沒辦法我們就講這個 禁止持有你要不要禁止持有你只有製造跟販售端嘛要禁止持有你這個沒有列入你的修法裡面嘛"},{"start":15059.571,"end":15065.635,"text":"趕快改 趕快改 跟委員報告一下我們有列入新的修法的內容我們新的修法 我們新的修法會處理這一個問題拜託中部長您上來就是說現在糖 台北總統一直在講說這個健康台灣 糖對人體有很大的危害肥胖 糖尿病 心血管病 脂肪肝 痛風等等那這個糖尿病 尤其糖尿病是在前十大死因之一 已經很多年了"},{"start":15089.392,"end":15102.772,"text":"我要告訴他糖尿病大家都不知道糖尿病病人罹患癌症有10%到25%罹患癌症病人當中有10%到25%是有糖尿病的這個糖的部分的管理對家庭的經濟健保的負擔都很重我現在請教莊部長莊部長您對糖稅"},{"start":15105.916,"end":15109.52,"text":"您對唐穗的見解如何?目前沒有這樣的規劃沒有這樣的規劃?邱部長你也沒有這樣的規劃嗎?"},{"start":15123.414,"end":15134.447,"text":"你也沒有這樣規劃嗎 邱部長也沒有嗎不是說健保沒錢嗎關心糖尿病 關心身體健康要多元化來照顧那我們當然可以鼓勵大家吃糖的飲料"},{"start":15155.215,"end":15156.457,"text":"麻煩請邱部長邱部長邱部長"},{"start":15164.681,"end":15177.629,"text":"市區部長好我想就是從我們2009年調整菸品健康福利捐之後呢其實到現在已經有16年都沒有再調整健康福利捐那麼針對這個要不要調整的問題其實現社會上也有一些意見就是說為什麼這麼多年來這麼多年了都沒有再調整我們現在的健康福利捐是每包20元也就是說這20元的價格已經是16年沒調"},{"start":15193.779,"end":15216.983,"text":"請問一下衛福部有沒有考慮要調整報告委員我想這個是有一個要不要調整這是一個審議會那會兩年再開一次會會做一個建議所以你們這兩年開一次會所以代表你們有八次的審議委員會都認為不需要再調整是嗎是不是我請國界署吳司長跟委員報告一下"},{"start":15217.998,"end":15232.866,"text":"好 麻煩很快謝謝委員我們兩年請這個專家評估一次那召開審議委員會以後提出建議那由這個外部跨部會跟財政部等相關單位要再召開委員會來決定要不要調整"},{"start":15233.066,"end":15240.008,"text":"好 了解 我跟你講主要是因為在WHO的建議是這個健康捐收達到75%但是我們現在的健康捐的比例呢只是54%健康捐跟菸稅加起來54%所以事實上是還有調整的空間那當然這個議題主要是涉及到就是我們看到我們目前的"},{"start":15256.152,"end":15266.076,"text":"健康捐另一年健康捐的收入是一直下滑這當然有一種比較好的說法就是因為可能衛福部這邊推動煙品 煙害防治有成效但是另外一個情況有可能現在就是吸煙草的煙"},{"start":15277.301,"end":15301.551,"text":"的消費族群全部都去轉到去抽加熱煙或者是電子煙所以這也是這個有這樣子的一個情況那麼因此對於這個煙圈的下滑的這個部分那當然本席這邊會認為說既然我們煙圈收入逐漸下降所以對於目前所分配的項目是不是應該有所調整呢"},{"start":15302.853,"end":15314.917,"text":"是對 我想我們就是剛剛吳市長有報告我們由兩年一次的專家寫者開會以後來再經過委員會來討論不是 我現在不是講菸捐調整 而是說菸捐的分配用途任何的建議我們都會列入來討論好 我們來看一下因為你們現在菸捐分配的用途的話這個我們在112年的時候曾經有修過菸捐的使用用途的這個分配辦法"},{"start":15325.14,"end":15354.141,"text":"那麼但是呢本席有發現依照你們自己的菸捐分配用途的這個執行計畫裡面我們有看到有一些費用有一些這個這些這個錢事實上應該是可以用公務預算來編列的譬如說像是疫苗基金有關於疫苗的部分疫苗基金有補助然後或是我們透過菸捐去補貼購買一些疫苗那這些疫苗的部分事實上它本來也是可以透過"},{"start":15356.062,"end":15374.282,"text":"這個公務預算來編列的那因為這會產生一個排擠效應雖然我們現在對於這個罕見疾病的防治的經費可能也有所不足現在過去大家常常講說我們是不是應該多挹注在罕見疾病的這個醫療上面那麼因此像這個部分的話是不是衛福部應該要去檢討有關於菸菌挹注的"},{"start":15377.541,"end":15386.345,"text":"這個可以來檢討 項目可以來檢討不過我跟委員報告一下我們對罕病的照顧我們是增加今年增加了20億原來的健保總部變之下增加了20億的公務預算來照顧罕病所以我們對罕病也是很重視那至於這裡面的一個項目我們都可以大家來研議"},{"start":15400.572,"end":15423.287,"text":"是也就是說是在整個菸捐的分配的部分如果說能夠將多一點的這個疫苗去這個菸捐的錢去捐助去益助罕病治療的話會更好但另外本行有發現在你們的這個菸捐的使用上面這也是依照你們自己的成果報告裡面所講的竟然還菸捐去支付國外的出國費用"},{"start":15424.908,"end":15446.223,"text":"像是林晉營次長陪同賴總統去繁榮南島智慧永續專案陪同賴總統去出訪太平洋友邦然後呢前衛福部的部長薛瑞元也是去巴拉圭參加這些會議那這些出國參加會議的經費適合用煙捐嗎嗯"},{"start":15452.683,"end":15473.793,"text":"那事實上是不應該用煙磚的有依規定編列就可以使用你們這個部分本來應該是編列你們在公務的出國預算裡面可是你們現在把煙磚拿來做這種什麼陪手桶出國這個我本身認為說這樣子的方式是不對的是不正確的其實醫療專業的官員如果去其實是做了很多的醫療上的交流啦"},{"start":15482.017,"end":15487.458,"text":"我今天提出這個問題,我希望衛福部能夠去檢討,而且要好好的善用煙捐而不是把煙捐拿去去貼補你們衛福部的高官出國的差旅費好不好好,謝謝我們會檢討,而且這個都是用在醫藥的交流啦,跟委員報告謝謝委員的資訊,下一位請,張祺凱委員資訊,請"},{"start":15526.073,"end":15529.975,"text":"請衛部邱部長跟財政部的莊部長兩位部長請委員好大家好"},{"start":15540.134,"end":15554.244,"text":"你們24號就要開這個跨部會的會議現在的問題嚴重在哪邊就是因為私菸的查緝不力不是只有私菸氾濫現在連毒品都已經是氾濫了所以一定要24號這個會要針對問題趕快去解決問題我先來看第一頁其實啦"},{"start":15562.708,"end":15590.374,"text":"你看那一天連那個卓榮泰卓院長到你們財政部的官務署去開記者會那一天啊大家看一下那個畫面多諷刺他本來是要去展現掃讀的、截心的結果那一天的早上啊媒體發了一個專題說啊海刑署集體詐騙領取契獎這個查緝的這個獎金高達數億元他中了什麼事情"},{"start":15591.121,"end":15605.536,"text":"他去戈劫了失焉集團他塞人頭去造假這個這個績效那天等於是財政部狠狠打了卓院長一巴掌失焉的這個茶器失焉的這個茶器"},{"start":15607.858,"end":15632.183,"text":"問題太多了 而且導致連毒品都進來了 也產生一堆鼻癌連海關 剛剛講的是一個新聞另外有一個海關 涉及集體這個貪汙他去蒐集一些微薄的賄賂 把跟這個私菸集團 走私集團都掛在一起連我們嘉義啊 你看嚴重到什麼程度連我的嘉義 嘉義關抄一個電子菸的地下倉儲 市值就超過五千萬"},{"start":15635.089,"end":15662.479,"text":"這私菸真的太氾濫了,而且毒品都藏在裡面來,讓我們繼續解決問題現在剛好有立委在提到說這個菸菸的分配目前是中央佔一半嘛對不對?對應一半嘛,是不是?保證可以,你的報告裡面專案報告說授權地方主要是地方去查緝啊你看一下地方跟中央查緝的比例多少?91比9耶"},{"start":15664.67,"end":15675.411,"text":"都是地方在查緝 中央分那麼多錢 啊分完之後還出現了 剛有委員講的拿錢 拿引擎 拿去陪總統出國"},{"start":15677.83,"end":15705.116,"text":"所以我具體的要求,第一個,中央的這個煙間啊,應該多下放一些給地方,因為地方負責查緝嘛,對不對?做工作是地方啊,第二個,不能再出現的拿煙間去出國這件事情。另外,我們看一個具體的解決方案,美國商會在2026年的6月白皮書,他提到說我們非法煙瓶交易已經變成一個多面向的議題了,他提了一個很重要的建議,"},{"start":15706.357,"end":15733.169,"text":"他建立說要導入新世代的執法這個科技這個我希望你們在24號的會議都要好好討論更嚴重來 我們來看看依照國建署這個統計112年我們歷年國中學生使用這個電子菸國中生抽菸的高達3.2%高中生跳了一倍6.3%"},{"start":15736.032,"end":15755.943,"text":"大學生5.24所以不只要好好清查要怎麼避免我們的學生抽屍菸而且甚至碰到毒品另外我要特別問一個就是成人的電子菸使用率為什麼一直都沒有統計我們有統計是1.0那這個一定是一個黑數太多了吧有可能1.0嗎 保定你有沒有看到有可能1.0"},{"start":15763.82,"end":15790.873,"text":"成人抽電子菸比例只有1嗎?我看加一個人可能不會吧?要詳時去查好不好?要詳時去查好來我提一個很嚴重的問題齁剛剛講這個菸毒啊就跟著就進來了上司菸蛋啊進來之後出現一個很嚴重的問題法務部的代表賽對不對法務部跟警察局你們現在查這個菸毒的時候"},{"start":15792.011,"end":15795.112,"text":"你的準確度只有30欸你這樣怎麼查這碰到兩個問題嘛你會不會侵犯到人權你快篩的時候因為你的快篩有問題你快篩就抓到他你就把他關起來對不對關到隔天結果隔天一篩是偽陽性"},{"start":15822.605,"end":15827.868,"text":"這問題要解決準確度只有30%我們具體做兩個很重要的現在有6家提供快篩去查一下先給本席一個6家他們的準確度有多少"},{"start":15846.809,"end":15860.654,"text":"那個食藥署安徒市長會談一下跟委員報告因為快篩本身不是屬於醫療器材那這個之前我們在行政院都開過會這個部分應該是刑事局在負責相關他的這個採購跟他的品管誰負責?刑事局"},{"start":15862.025,"end":15886.859,"text":"刑事警察局那24號會員要找他們來對不對好那你們法務部負責這已經變成毒品了嘛這個我們在行政院都有討論過這個已經變成是毒品啦不是只有私菸問題啊所以法務部也要進來啊好不好第一個把公布這六家它準確度到底有多少那你當然買比較精準的嘛好不好而且要求到快篩的精準度要高主席先站起來喔最後做四個建議"},{"start":15888.32,"end":15896.774,"text":"請這四個建立在24號 具體來落實跟討論好不好第一 建立地方跟中央調整菸間分配的這個比例"},{"start":15897.871,"end":15924.079,"text":"中央應該適度要下放給地方第二個嚴厲美國商會剛剛那個建議好不好然後呢第三個嚴厲就是剛剛講的這個喪屍煙堵的這個快篩劑的你要中央要給一個指引然後要把這個快篩的精準度要一次提高了第四個剛剛講的剛才我們統計不好寫統計成人煙的這個稀釋率是多少好不好我們一起來我們各部會來一起嚴厲第一天回去是你主席對不對"},{"start":15925.419,"end":15943.934,"text":"二十四號這個議題都要在裡面喔然後你到底得出什麼樣的解決方案送一份到報公室來好的好 謝謝好 謝謝張文宇的諮詢讓那個私菸不要這麼氾濫特別是毒品一定要煮好 謝謝張文宇的諮詢下一位請林楚瑩 林楚瑩 林楚瑩我們不在麥玉正委員請諮詢"},{"start":15957.811,"end":15962.781,"text":"蕭主席有請部長 衛福部衛福部局部長委員好"},{"start":15970.472,"end":15990.985,"text":"部長好我們現在根據煙害防治法的修正案從112年3月22日起電子煙未經核准的烈煙品已全面禁止但是相關的製造輸入還有"},{"start":15992.606,"end":16015.047,"text":"販賣供應的廣告還是一樣有展示的行為法律都已經明文規定是違法的但是不過我們要請教部長一下這部法雖然修了但是現在法則真的夠重 夠有震撼力了但是特別針對青少年"},{"start":16016.228,"end":16034.904,"text":"販售的電子煙這一塊是否跟法務部研議修法再進一步視為扎重責任行為來處理 第一個如果明知對象是未成年在販賣這個東西 但是是否應該引入"},{"start":16036.004,"end":16061.523,"text":"刑法還有納入詐騙或危害健康的相關的罪責有沒有言議有沒有兩邊來去討論我想謝謝委員的隨行這個是非常重要的議題我們一定要嚴加管理尤其面對青少年比較沒辦法了解太多"},{"start":16063.186,"end":16086.105,"text":"比較容易被可能被影響到的我們一定要保護他所以在其實我們最近也在已經研修法譬如說在第一線他就可以沒入這個對很多縣市他們的反應是第一線的是有很大的幫助那至於說在華澤方面不曉得國政司有沒有要補充"},{"start":16087.389,"end":16101.26,"text":"我想這個在相關的法令的研修過程中都會跟法務部一起來討論這個最後大家對於法條的行程跟法條大家的共識最後才能夠送出來給行政院或者最後到大安來審查"},{"start":16102.65,"end":16109.816,"text":"但是這些業者不只是罰錢了事所以我們要請衛福部這邊是不是願意主動研議修法一部就是說專門鎖定青少年的違法的行為還有實施更嚴格的刑事的處罰還有就是說收銀的財產能不能就是讓這些黑心電他們就是因為危害我們的孩子"},{"start":16131.391,"end":16140.183,"text":"所以他們就是屁股拍一拍,有一個地方繼續賣,繼續做生意這樣對我們的一脈掃指的話,今天真的很可憐好,了解"},{"start":16146.811,"end":16159.443,"text":"所以這個部分我們不只是法而已,還有關於他們的財產如何就是扣留,繳回國庫,或者怎麼樣,這樣才會怕啦不是說發發的,我有錢,發到就了事了,要不然我去那個地方再來,對不對"},{"start":16168.429,"end":16181.114,"text":"所以我們希望說在第二題就是說網路販售的跨境就是流通的平台的責任這個部分我們現在在網路上還是看到的"},{"start":16181.581,"end":16196.342,"text":"可是我們在這個部分的確是非常的用力啦比如說在今年來大概94%都有下架所以現在你去上去基本上有看到但是點不進去的很多啦"},{"start":16198.744,"end":16222.579,"text":"但是我們會再繼續努力我們會加強力道因為這個是很多大家所關心的這個是我們全力以赴的事情所以我們希望是說我們要和NCC就是跨部會就像我一直在建議我們的就是"},{"start":16223.78,"end":16237.552,"text":"警政署的現在把人家都利用在台灣有81萬的移工還有60萬的新住民還有8萬多的逃跑移工用不一樣的語言來去騙"},{"start":16239.053,"end":16260.235,"text":"去台灣的新住民跟移工現在我們就是在這些網站很多都是說國外的但是事實上他用不同的語言用不同的平台就是變成記憶台在別的地方但是我們可以應用這個現有這些人才現有這些語言幫你倒三天這樣才會抓到"},{"start":16262.337,"end":16286.869,"text":"不能說我們有啊有啊,但是你說點沒有,我們就點到有啊,不能這樣騙人今天手機發一個就看到了,點一個就沒了這很簡單的事情,所以我們希望衛福部一定要跟法務部還有就是NCC把這樣子的一個平台真正的消除、消滅這樣才會真的對我們年輕的孩子有幫助"},{"start":16289.83,"end":16302.353,"text":"好 謝謝 我們一定朝這個目標來努力而且各部會合作來努力沒有說在研議 在討論啊沒有什麼研議 這個就一直在做了這個就一直在做 謝謝委員提供一些資料"},{"start":16309.375,"end":16327.621,"text":"那麼向委員會報告今日登記發言委員經已全部詢答完畢本日會議作如下是決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內已書面答覆"},{"start":16332.163,"end":16355.288,"text":"委員另要求期限者從即所定三 委員蘇清泉 謝榮介 徐欣盈所提的書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆四 本次會議議程已全部進行完畢討論有在場的委員提出書面諮詢"},{"start":16357.049,"end":16359.952,"text":"並列入紀錄 刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}