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移 丙 丁的這樣一個等地方式坦白說已經跟現在的"},{"start":167.572,"end":184.651,"text":"这个很多的评鉴的制度啊还有就是连考试打成绩啊等等都不会再用甲乙丙丁的这样的等地制度所以有没有可能可以去想想看用着其他的这个等地制度来代替比如说特优啊优啊就是良好等等的来"},{"start":187.834,"end":211.268,"text":"來彰顯他確實公務人員他在考金上面他可能因為他的表現的不同然後會有不同的評價否則大家確實會覺得說所有都是76%的人公務員都是假等都是一樣好嗎事實上也不見得是一樣好因為有些是表現的特別好但是卻因為這個等地制沒有辦法去凸顯出這公務員他其實真的表現非常優良"},{"start":212.643,"end":234.16,"text":"還有另外一個就是為什麼這個基層公務人員很在意考積甲等乙等這當然跟獎金有關嘛這個說來說去其實也都是跟所有的公務人員的福利待遇有關那你現在你的這個甲等的考積獎金一個月乙等的呢是0.5個月"},{"start":235.421,"end":254.034,"text":"如果你未来就是可以把它这个等地做得更细致,比如说多增加几个等地,然后也提高考级奖金,我想这个是大家皆大欢喜,而且也不会有人会抱怨说,拿特优的就应该拿一个月,或是1.5个月,那其他的这个普通表现优良的可能就是0.5个月,"},{"start":255.015,"end":273.457,"text":"那中間可能有優良的或者是你們可以有一些不同的一個等地標準那這樣的話我認為說其實會讓公務人員比較心服口服而不是認為說我今天被打一等那個以的在中國人的概念真的是代表說其實不是那麼好但其實還是有拿到考級獎金的"},{"start":274.157,"end":285.024,"text":"所以這次本席就是給市部長還有秘書長這邊建議可以通盤的去思考我們現在在大學裡面教書都知道學生的成績已經也不是在用100分"},{"start":286.584,"end":306.201,"text":"百分比来计算用什么A加A减然后ABCD嘛就有不同的这个等级所以我想师傅长您也在大学教书您可能知道就说我们这个整个评分的制度其实有在改变也很希望说是不是接下来在讨论考G的这个等地制的时候呢也可以有一些新的思维"},{"start":306.98,"end":325.412,"text":"我跟委員報告剛剛陳委員在質詢的時候我們也意識到這已經40年沒有改變了所以部裡面跟院裡面有充分的溝通那其實這是我們從去年周院長在被提名統一權審查的時候他就把這個當成是他兩個"},{"start":326.713,"end":351.094,"text":"工作的一個重點那去年應該先處理的是保障法上半年所以下半年我們就積極在討論那整個大的方向是用不同的思考方式如果你問我的話我們是有點重訂考積法的概念不是叫修正考積法所以那個架構應該會跟以前會有很大的不一樣我可以公開這樣我不會再用甲乙丙丁這種概念"},{"start":352.516,"end":376.873,"text":"但實際上的狀況一定會要跟各個機關因為最後我們法律怎麼設計執行了還是在機關機關要怎麼執行的順暢務實可行我覺得這個才是一個重點然後接下來公務同仁的一些想法過去的想法當然我自己在政府部門這麼久我當然有聽到我想這個事情很自然會在這一次的"},{"start":377.867,"end":390.214,"text":"有點像是比較是重新架構裡面一定會去考慮這些事情那以行政機關的方式大概這樣運作的方式跟委員先做這個報告好 謝謝部長重要的還是要聽這個基層公務員的心聲如果說能夠多辦幾場座談會的話我想會對於就是修正考機制度會很有幫助"},{"start":396.818,"end":414.988,"text":"就這點是不是容許我講個幾十秒現在一個方式要聽意見非常多所以我們設計的方式因為所有公務員都有內部網站都有我們叫ECPA的概念我們會透過這個方式就不斷在上面我們會有設計問卷直接push到每一個公務人員就我們的問題"},{"start":416.77,"end":431.412,"text":"這個表示我想他的觸及力會遠比其他方式來得快好的OK那接下來我還有另外一個議題喔因為在你們今天的報告裡面其實有談到就是接下來會通案性的調高地方機關還有中央政府機關的"},{"start":433.536,"end":452.171,"text":"這個植物列等來平衡中央與地方的發展那麼事實上本席是非常支持這樣的做法確實有關於公務員的官職等的重新調配是有必要的但是本席也看到一個問題就是說你們在這次的調整裡面你們好像似乎忽略了學校"},{"start":453.012,"end":468.797,"text":"學校機關好像其實我們知道像公立學校不管是從大學中學小學應該都有一些公務員的這個配置可是你們看看就是說這個公他們就是同樣就是國家考試考試及格的公務員可是卻在"},{"start":470.057,"end":483.833,"text":"因為他服務的機關的不同而以至於他的這個值等這個所列的值等有差別同時在升遷的時候呢他的這個天花板其實也不同譬如說你從藥治基層的這公務員以組員來講在公立大學"},{"start":489.44,"end":508.265,"text":"高中國中小的組員他最高只能夠升到七職等可是在地方在中央的二級二三級機關的組員就可以升到八職等那在組員專員組長編審秘書組密處長都是同樣的情況也就是說是往中央或地方機關"},{"start":509.565,"end":536.636,"text":"那裡服務的公務員他的職等的升遷會比在公立大學或是其他學校裡面更為順暢而且可能也更有誘因這個基本上會造成一個問題就是可能在大學裡面在這些學校裡面公立學校裡面他留不住好的公務員因為大家如果想說我要往職等更高的地方去的話就會往其他的機關走所以這邊是不是有可能"},{"start":537.81,"end":560.523,"text":"就是請學習部也一併的考量有關於在公立學校裡面服務的這一群公務員他只等可以做一些調整我跟委員簡單的一個報告我們做職務調整一定是先鎖定一些就優先順序啦應該這樣講那所有事情我們意見我們都會參考包括現在我們在學校裡面可能沒有特別這一次在這裡面"},{"start":561.383,"end":582.004,"text":"但是這個我們會再跟行政部門好好再討論那學校跟行政機關最大差別學校人比較少啦就是說你也知道學校雖然大部分都是業用人員可是不能把他們當成是公務員孤兒嘛不會當公務員孤兒啦那另外像是醫院裡面的公務員因為一些公立醫院裡面可能也有一些公務員的一些配置在這次的調整裡面他們有調到嗎"},{"start":584.867,"end":588.133,"text":"醫院體系裡面有另外一套方式不過我想醫院我們另外一塊體系在處理中"},{"start":597.658,"end":616.506,"text":"總之就是說這些都是具有公務員資格的這些人那麼我們希望就是說全區部在調整相關的職等職官等的時候也要注意到公平性一致性不要讓在其他單位服務的這些公務員就覺得好像全區部大小眼"},{"start":617.266,"end":642.435,"text":"我們還是很希望說在這次你們調整裡面能夠把這些學校裡面的公務員能夠一併納入接下來還有一個問題就是剛剛其實也有提到的公務員結社權的問題公務員這次因為因為考試院也提出公務人員協會的修法那裡面又特別提到就是要成立特種"},{"start":643.815,"end":657.336,"text":"公務人員協會那你們現在是因為不允許警察司法醫師等等專業人員去組成化機關的協會所以呢才特別要增加這個特種公務人員協會是嗎"},{"start":659.281,"end":674.694,"text":"對 就是當時是針對就是說因為我們現在是以機關為主體所以就變成那個地方的消防同仁他們的反應他們就只能參加縣市政府的協會那縣市政府有沒有協會當然會變另外一個問題那第二個是他們的意見沒有辦法反映所以我們就做了這樣的設計"},{"start":675.495,"end":704.534,"text":"是 那既然說你們都考慮到就是說是基層的警察 消防等等這些人員他們有這個強烈的希望能夠組織協會的這樣的需求可是呢你們你們放寬的部分項目可是卻在草案的第七條裡面還是說有一些排除的情況簡單來說就是如果說當涉及到像待遇值等薪資等等這些條件或者是說像警察人員"},{"start":705.996,"end":716.572,"text":"最在意的就是有關於像裝備的汰換還有危險加急等等這些難道他們在你們接下來的修法裡面到底可不可以列為協商事項"},{"start":718.749,"end":738.639,"text":"我跟委員報告,不管是公會或是協會,因為我們台灣有個很大的特色,我們內部的人力資源管理制度幾乎都是在法律明定,簡單的說法律寫實了啦,既然是法律寫實了,大概就不太適合作為協商的事項,那可以做的是什麼,它可以透過這個過程來表達,"},{"start":740.62,"end":759.618,"text":"譬如說也許哪些法律不夠好不夠好那可以怎麼一個修正比較會是這樣一個方式啦我想跟委員做這樣一個報告但是如果說只是這樣的話其實我就感受到但是協商的事項還是有放寬的成意不足嘛基本上我們當然希望就是未來他們能夠組織協會之後能夠針對跟與這些警消人員有關的權益的事項能夠自己的表達"},{"start":766.784,"end":795.232,"text":"但是你們現在在第十條裡面有講到如果說它涉及到公共安全的問題的話那又排除但是就像我們剛剛說的像是裝備汰換難道不重要嗎在你們自己的修法裡面就講說如果說是警察機關駐地安全維護相關設施執行各項警務的警力配置警用裝備攜帶的實機警用的槍械與防彈背心採購等等這些事項是不可以提出協商的"},{"start":797.054,"end":822.103,"text":"這細節的東西其實在這種過程裡面我們會很跟譬如說主管機關是內政部這邊的一個討論所以細節的部分是不是這樣子我想可能就是在你們去環遊所以我希望你們回去檢討談判什麼叫做有些協商事項涉及到公共安全所以它就不能夠列為協商就像我們剛剛講像警察的這個防彈背心它是很重要這種採購的部分或是要採購哪些為什麼不能夠加入協商我想定義上應該不是這個意思啦"},{"start":824.044,"end":850.227,"text":"應該說那個部分因為採購設計採購後面的程序你們自己的修法理由這是本席在這裡看到的一個問題點希望說能夠既然我們要修公務人員協會能夠讓這些警消司法警察人員可以組織特種協會的話當然就希望能夠更開放讓他們有更多的權利可以有一些談判協商的事項然後最後一個非常小的問題就是說"},{"start":852.68,"end":872.3,"text":"我們知道身心障礙者權益保障法裡面其實有談到如果因為身心障礙者提前老化的話中央勞工主管機關應該要建立身心障礙勞工的提早退休的機制來保障他的退出職場的生活品質那麼這個是在身心障礙者權益保障法裡面的規定"},{"start":873.061,"end":896.016,"text":"那么现在就是有一些公务人员他有身心障碍的情况的公务人员他提出的问题就是说我们目前在公务人员退休之前抚恤法里面的规定是只有规定就是这些公务员身心障碍的公务员他如果要申请自愿退休必须任职满15年而且要符合所谓重度以上的等级"},{"start":896.496,"end":920.401,"text":"就是他身心障礙等級要符合重度以上等級可是我們知道有些像是中度的身心障礙的公務員他可能鑑定的結果沒有達到重度但是隨著年齡的老化他的體能生理狀況其實早就已經沒有辦法去負荷這種高強度的行政工作所以我們在這裡是不是建議就是說考試院學習部這邊也可以一併的去思考"},{"start":921.181,"end":936.217,"text":"有關於這個中度重度這個之間是不是可以再多列一個標準那麼可以讓一些可能這個偏向重度但他還不到重度的這些公務員也可以讓他們有提前提早退休的機會"},{"start":937.625,"end":954.024,"text":"我跟委員報 重度現在大概法律本來就有講不過重度可以經過一定的評估不過委員的意見我想我帶回去再跟同仁再好好看看說這中間有沒有可能需要應應實務上的一個需要哪些部分也許可以再做一些討論但是這個真的是一個要相當謹慎的一個議題啦"},{"start":955.646,"end":980.031,"text":"好那我希望說你們回去可以好好討論一下這個議題那是不是也可以請你們給我一份報告就是說到底目前在公務體系公教體系裡面有多少的是屬於身心障礙的這樣的公務員然後達到周度以上的有多少位事實的部分我先提供給委員但是至於那個討論的部分可能沒有辦法那麼那麼有一個結論但是就是相關的數據麻煩請先提供給我參考好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:28:59+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:00+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:28:59.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:05.919000+08:00","text":"先有請劉秘書長及施部長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:05.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:06.019000+08:00","text":"請劉秘書長、施部長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:14.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:15.637000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:15.637000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:16.637000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:15.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:17.198000+08:00","text":"秘書長、施部長好。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:18.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:39.203000+08:00","text":"我剛剛聽到施部長在業務報告裡面有特別提到公教退休金停砍法案現在的實施狀況，剛剛施部長已經有說，應該是滿肯定6月底之前就可以完成新的退休金審定函吧？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:40.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:43.970000+08:00","text":"對，當初委員在質詢的時候，我就講過這個事情，我們有根據我們的進度在進行。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:44.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:29:48.172000+08:00","text":"所以現在進度到哪裡，可以很簡單地大概說一下嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:29:48.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:30:06.017000+08:00","text":"簡單地說，現在的進度是各機關都已經確認哪些人必須要重審，這個是很重要，不要lose掉，然後我們系統也幾乎快開發完成，所以下個月系統一旦ready就開始真正進入到實質審定，實質審定大概要用一、兩個月的時間。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:30:06.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:30:12.719000+08:00","text":"我們預計在6月就會開始……最後還要發給機關確認，大概是這樣的進行方式。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:30:13.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:30:30.086000+08:00","text":"如果可以的話，我當然希望相關作業越快、越提早完成越好，因為銓敘部完成之後，還要發給各機關，各機關作業可能也還需要兩個禮拜或一個月的時間。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:30:32.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:30:50.478000+08:00","text":"所有退休公教人員的期待就是能夠看到7月1號之後退休金停砍，這個部分希望部長還有秘書長可以加速，儘可能的兌現你們的承諾。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:30:51.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:31:06.264000+08:00","text":"這個部分對於一些基層的退休公教人員來講，雖然看到法案通過了，但退休金還是持續扣，心裡面肯定是不舒服的、不愉快的，不希望6月之後可能還會發生其他的變化，就麻煩施部長。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:31:06.264000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:31:11.045000+08:00","text":"我理解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:31:11.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:31:23.472000+08:00","text":"接下來我想談一個議題，剛剛陳昭姿委員有提到關於最近大家很關心的打考績問題，就是公務人員考績甲等、乙等的問題。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:31:23.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:00.487000+08:00","text":"事實上，我也知道這麼多年來，從民國76年到現在，考績制度已經差不多快40年了，從來沒有改變過，本席在這裡有個建議，因為現在考績制度用甲、乙、丙、丁這樣的等第方式，坦白說，已經跟現在很多的評鑑制度有別，就連考試打成績等等都不會再用甲、乙、丙、丁這樣的等第制度，所以有沒有可能想想看用其他的等第制度代替？","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:00.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:20.842000+08:00","text":"譬如特優、優、良好等等來彰顯公務人員在考績上，確實因為表現的不同會有不同的評價，否則大家會覺得76%的公務員都是甲等，都是一樣好嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:20.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:22.043000+08:00","text":"事實上，也不見得是一樣好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:22.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:30.247000+08:00","text":"因為有些是表現得特別好，卻因為這個等第制沒有辦法凸顯出這些公務員真的表現非常優良。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:31.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:37.468000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是為什麼基層公務人員很在意考績甲等、乙等？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:38.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:32:47.956000+08:00","text":"這當然跟獎金有關，說來說去其實也都是跟所有公務人員的福利、待遇有關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:32:48.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:33:32.437000+08:00","text":"現在甲等的考績獎金1個月，乙等的是0.5個月，如果未來可以把等第做得更細緻，譬如多增加幾個等第，也提高考績獎金，我想這個是讓大家皆大歡喜，而且也不會有人會抱怨拿特優的就應該拿1個月或是1.5個月，其他表現普通優良的可能就是0.5個月，中間可能有優良的或者是你們可以有一些不同的等第標準，這樣的話，我認為會讓公務人員比較心服口服，而不是認為他今天被打乙等……乙等在中國人的概念就是代表不是那麼好，但其實他還是有拿到考績獎金的。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:33:33.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:33:38.761000+08:00","text":"這是本席給施部長還有秘書長的建議，可以通盤去思考。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:33:39.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:33:51.889000+08:00","text":"現在我們在大學裡面教書都知道，學生的成績已經不用百分比計算，而是用A、A+、A-，有A、B、C、D不同的等級。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:33:53.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:34:04.960000+08:00","text":"施部長也在大學教書，你可能知道整個評分的制度其實有在改變，很希望接下來在討論考績等第制的時候，是不是也可以有一些新的思維？","quality":0.561},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:34:08.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:34:15.646000+08:00","text":"剛剛陳委員在質詢的時候，我們也意識到這個已經40年沒有改變了，所以部裡跟院裡有充分溝通。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:34:17.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:34:35.542000+08:00","text":"去年周院長被提名同意權審查的時候，他就把這個當成是他兩個工作的一個重點，去年上半年優先處理的是保障法，所以下半年我們就積極在討論，整個大的方向是用不同的思考方式。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:34:35.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:34:47.072000+08:00","text":"如果你問我的話，我們有點是重定考績法的概念，不是叫修正考績法，所以那個架構應該會跟以前有很大的不一樣。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:34:47.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:06.967000+08:00","text":"我可以公開講不會再用甲、乙、丙、丁這種概念，但實際上的狀況一定要跟各個機關溝通，因為最後無論法律怎麼設計，執行的還是在機關，機關要怎麼執行得順暢、務實、可行，我覺得這個才是重點。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:07.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:20.749000+08:00","text":"接下來是公務同仁過去的一些想法，我自己在政府部門這麼久當然有聽到，我想這個事情很自然一定會在這一次有點比較像是重新架構裡面去考慮。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:22.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:25.212000+08:00","text":"行政機關大概這樣運作的方式，先跟委員報告。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:25.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:26.673000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:26.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:29.194000+08:00","text":"重要的還是要聽基層公務員的心聲，如果能夠多辦幾場座談會，我想對於修正考績制度會很有幫助。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:35.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:35:39.020000+08:00","text":"就這一點是不是容許我講個幾十秒？好。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:35:39.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:36:00.818000+08:00","text":"現在的方式要聽的意見非常多，因為所有公務員都有內部網站，都有我們叫ECPA的概念，我們會透過這個方式就不斷在上面設計問卷，直接push到每一個公務人員就我們的問題表示意見，我想它的觸及率會遠比其他方式來得快。OK。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:36:01.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:36:15.598000+08:00","text":"接下來，我還有另外一個議題，因為在你們今天的報告裡面有談到，接下來會通案性的調高地方機關還有中央政府機關的職務列等，來平衡中央與地方的發展。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:36:16.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:36:32.852000+08:00","text":"事實上，本席非常支持這樣的做法，關於公務員的官職等重新調配，確實是有必要的，但是本席也看到一個問題，就是你們這次的調整似乎忽略了學校機關。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:36:33.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:37:01.632000+08:00","text":"我們知道像公立學校，不管是從大學、中學、小學，應該都有一些公務員的配置，他們同樣是國家考試及格的公務員，卻因為服務機關不同，以致所列職等有差別，同時升遷的天花板也不同。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:37:02.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:37:39.369000+08:00","text":"譬如同樣是基層公務員，以組員來講，公立大學、高中、國中小的組員最高只能夠升到7職等，可是在地方或中央二、三級機關的組員就可以升到8職等，那在專員、組長、編審、秘書、主秘、處長都是同樣的情況，也就是在中央或地方機關服務的公務員，他的職等升遷會比在公立大學或是其他學校裡面更為順暢，而且可能也更有誘因。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:37:40.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:07.016000+08:00","text":"這個基本上會造成一個問題，可能大學或這些公立學校留不住好的公務員，如果大家想要往職等更高的地方，就會往其他機關走，所以請銓敘部也一併考量在公立學校服務的這一群公務員，他的職等是不是有可能可以做一些調整？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:07.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:23.486000+08:00","text":"我跟委員簡單報告，我們做職務調整一定是先鎖定優先順序，所有的意見我們都會參考，包括學校在這一次可能沒有特別納入，但是我們會再跟行政部門好好討論。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:24.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:30.513000+08:00","text":"學校跟行政機關最大差別是學校人比較少，你也知道學校大部分都是約用人員，非公務人員……","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:30.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:32.595000+08:00","text":"雖然他們人少，可是不能把他們當成是公務員孤兒，都沒有看到他們！","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:33.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:34.277000+08:00","text":"不會當公務人員孤兒，就是說我們……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:34.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:41.004000+08:00","text":"另外，像是醫院裡面的公務員，因為這些公立醫院也有配置一些公務員，在這次調整裡面，他們有調到嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:43.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:38:47.113000+08:00","text":"醫院體系有另外一套方式，不過醫院是另外一塊體系在處理中。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:38:56.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:39:15.486000+08:00","text":"總之，這些人都是具有公務員資格，我們希望銓敘部在調整相關職官等的時候，要注意到公平性、一致性，不要讓在其他單位服務的這些公務員覺得銓敘部好像大小眼，好不好？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:39:16.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:39:23.369000+08:00","text":"我們還是很希望你們在這次調整，能夠把這些學校裡面的公務員一併納入。好。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:39:24.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:39:56.336000+08:00","text":"接下來還有一個問題，剛剛有提到公務員結社權的問題，因為考試院這次也提出公務人員協會的修法，裡面特別提到要成立特種公務人員協會，是因為現在不允許警察、司法、醫事等專業人員組成跨機關的協會，所以才特別要增加特種公務人員協會，是嗎？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T09:39:58.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:40:13.694000+08:00","text":"對，因為我們現在是以機關為主體，所以就變成地方的消防同仁反映他們就只能參加縣市政府的協會，所以縣市政府有沒有協會就變成另外一個問題；第二個是他們的意見沒有辦法反映，所以我們就做了這樣的設計。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:40:14.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:40:55.572000+08:00","text":"是，既然你們都考慮到基層警察、消防等等這些人員他們強烈希望能夠組織協會的需求，你們放寬了部分項目，卻在草案的第七條裡面還是有一些排除的情況，簡單來說當涉及到待遇、職等、薪資等等這些條件，或是像警察人員最在意的就是有關裝備的汰換還有危險加給等等，在你們接下來的修法裡面，這些部分到底可不可以列為協商事項？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:40:57.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:15.718000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，因為臺灣有個很大的特色，我們內部的人力資源管理制度幾乎都在法律明定，簡單來說就是法律寫死了，既然是法律寫死了，大概就不太適合作為協商的事項。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:15.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:16.979000+08:00","text":"那可以做的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:17.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:25.986000+08:00","text":"他可以透過這個過程來表達，譬如說也許哪些法律不夠好，可以怎麼樣來做修正，比較會是這樣的方式，我想跟委員做這樣的報告。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:26.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:27.487000+08:00","text":"如果說只是這樣的話……","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:29.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:31.891000+08:00","text":"但是協商的事項還是有放寬的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:31.891000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:34.414000+08:00","text":"其實我就感受到考試院、銓敘部這邊修法的誠意不足嘛！","quality":0.174},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:34.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:38.618000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們當然希望未來他們能夠組織協會，並且能夠針對警消人員有關的權益事項來積極表達……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:38.618000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:45.784000+08:00","text":"裡面確實是有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:45.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:41:57.427000+08:00","text":"但你們現在第十條裡面有講到如果涉及到公共安全問題的話也有排除，但就像我們剛剛說的，像是裝備汰換難道不重要嗎？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:41:57.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:42:14.212000+08:00","text":"在你們自己的修法裡面就提到，有關警察機關駐地安全維護相關設施、執行各項警務的警力配置、警用裝備攜帶時機、警用槍械與防彈背心採購等等這些事項是不可以提出協商的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:42:16.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:42:24.277000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，這些細節的東西，其實在相關過程裡面，我們會跟主管機關內政部這邊來討論，所以細節的部分是不是這樣子，我想可能……我理解，有些部分是可以再做討論的。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:42:24.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:42:40.303000+08:00","text":"這是在你們的修法理由，所以我希望你們回去再檢討一下，什麼叫做因為涉及到公共安全，所以就不能夠列為協商事項，就像我們剛剛講的像警察的防彈背心，這是很重要的，像這種採購的部分或是要採購哪些，為什麼不能夠加入協商事項？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:42:40.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:42:45.807000+08:00","text":"我想定義上應該不是這個意思啦，因為採購涉及採購後面的程序。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:42:45.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:42:46.988000+08:00","text":"部長，我希望你們回去看一下，因為這是你們自己的修法理由。好。","quality":0.346},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:42:47.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:43:07.365000+08:00","text":"這是本席在這裡看到的一個問題點，既然我們要修公務人員協會法，讓這些消防、司法、警察人員可以組織特種協會，當然就希望能夠更開放，讓他們有更多權利可以有一些談判協商的事項。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:43:07.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:43:31.280000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題就是，我們知道現在身心障礙者權益保障法裡面有談到，如果因為身心障礙者提前老化，中央勞工主管機關要建立身心障礙勞工的提早退休機制，保障其退出職場的生活品質，這是在身心障礙者權益保障法裡面的規定。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:43:32.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:44:13.420000+08:00","text":"現在有一些身心障礙的公務人員提出的問題是，目前公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的規定，是只有規定這些身心障礙的公務員如果要申請自願退休必須任職滿十五年，而且要符合所謂重度以上的等級，也就是身心障礙等級要符合重度以上等級，可是我們知道有些中度身心障礙的公務員，他鑑定的結果雖沒有達到重度，但是隨著年齡的老化，他的體能、生理狀況其實早就已經沒有辦法負荷這種高強度的行政工作。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:44:13.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:44:35.217000+08:00","text":"所以我們在這裡建議，考試院、銓敘部這邊也可以一併思考有關於在中度、重度之間是不是可以再多列一個標準，對於一些偏向重度但還不到重度的這些公務員，也可以讓他們有提早退休的機會。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:44:36.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:44:53.004000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，重度現在在法律上本來就有，但中度可以經過一定的評估，不過委員的意見我想我會帶回去再跟同仁好好看看這中間有沒有可能因應實務上的需要，哪些部分也許可以再做一些討論，但這真的是一個要相當謹慎的議題。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:44:54.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:11.750000+08:00","text":"好，我希望你們回去可以好好討論一下這個議題，是不是也可以請你們給我一份報告，就是到底目前在公務體系、公教體系裡面有多少是屬於身心障礙的公務員，然後達到中度以上的有多少位。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:12.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:14.570000+08:00","text":"事實的部分我先提供給委員，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:14.570000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:15.570000+08:00","text":"是，那就麻煩部長這邊提供給我。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:15.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:18.051000+08:00","text":"至於討論的部分可能沒有辦法馬上有一個結論出來。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:18.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:18.911000+08:00","text":"好，相關的數據麻煩請先提供給我參考，謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:19.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:19.031000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-03-19T09:45:19.531000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:45:23.531000+08:00","text":"接下來我們請范雲委員發言，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}