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有請秘書長"},{"start":13.069,"end":27.9,"text":"委員長好 秘書長早這是本席第一次質詢考試院我想關心我長期關心的議題當然我想先從最近報導不知道秘書長有沒有看到最近一直有媒體報導公務員提早退出職場的狀況"},{"start":31.903,"end":59.35,"text":"有當然我相信您一定有在了解各種原因今天我想針對其中一個潛在的我很關心的原因就是職場霸凌想問就是考試院目前的狀況我想我們都看到考試院修正公部門的職安新制去年7月上路到現在大概已經有9個月了請問一下祕書長您覺得目前做得如何"},{"start":60.39,"end":86.638,"text":"目前就是立法之後主要工作就在各項制度機制的建立那保訓會這邊也充實了人力要來處理好這個業務那當然跟各機關人員訓練等等很多工作我是不是請主委跟您詳細說明沒關係 細節可以先不要講那請問秘書長那你們有沒有一個自我評估的機制譬如說一年或是半年知道自己做的怎麼樣請主委來說明"},{"start":90.681,"end":102.651,"text":"公務員報告您剛提到的自我檢視的機制大概我們有分成幾個部分第一個就是我們從去年的安慰辦法從去年修法通過以後"},{"start":105.193,"end":128.382,"text":"連續已經發出三次的這個調查表那確定就是說各機關都有依照我們的規定還有相關的指引來這個完成應該所做的部分那這是第一個就是我們去了解現場的情況那跟委員報告就是目前所有的機關全部都已經依照這個規定組成了機關內的這個安全及衛生防護委員會然後呢這個相關課程的訓練"},{"start":132.803,"end":153.532,"text":"觸及率呢也這個基本上呢達到了九成五以上那第二個部分是我們自我審視的部分那我們在機關裡面呢我們定期都會這個就各機關還有公務人員他們會其實這個陳如委員所提到這是大家很關心友善職場的最基本面所以呢他們所有的這個基層的"},{"start":154.753,"end":155.694,"text":"你剛講的那個是不是那個自我檢核表"},{"start":172.685,"end":195.88,"text":"自我檢核表是其中機關需要填的一份表單也就是法律上規定每年3月底前要報送到保訓會的那張表單這個部分如果你們因為你剛說95%都有達成那如果有相關的統計可以讓我知道一下好不好好 跟委員報告目前陸陸續續都在回收中因為今天是3月19嘛19對 那目前呢這個"},{"start":199.815,"end":213.994,"text":"部分的這個機關其實他們都很還蠻早都沒有像我們這個退退到最後的時候因為我覺得對我來講時間沒有那麼急就是做好比較重要那你如果有相關統計再給本席一看好嗎是"},{"start":214.935,"end":230.467,"text":"我想再回來請問秘書長其實我們是要肯定你們7月就開始根據修過的法把它納入自我檢核表我有拿到相關的表我想這樣的做法是蠻好的"},{"start":231.588,"end":251.27,"text":"今天我比較是想針對這個表的內容想跟秘書長討論是不是有可能精進我讓秘書長看一下這個表格你看這邊譬如說這一份前面是講當然就是安全及衛生防護這邊有防止機械設備器具危害爆炸性等等"},{"start":251.79,"end":279.983,"text":"那但是就是這裡面其實你們把兩個東西放在一起一個是職業安全一個是職場霸凌那其實會有一些情況就是好像有些時候是不適用的那我想問就是說秘書長覺得有沒有可能評估有些完全不相干譬如對那個機構單位是不是有可能加上一個不適用這是第一個有可能喔那你們可以評估一下這個可以評估"},{"start":280.703,"end":302.283,"text":"那另外就是這個減核表好像不夠細緻就是因為職場風險的等級跟業務其實非常的不一樣因為你現在是所有的公部門大家知道公部門數量何其多我是給你們參考一下勞動部怎麼做因為其實我們的法源都是那個職安法"},{"start":302.964,"end":329.23,"text":"那勞動部執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引中他的風險評估表有依不同的職場分類譬如這邊我找出來的像社工他長的就會不太一樣那另外右邊那個環境檢點物理環境方面他就是以噪音、照明等等為主所以這個風險評估表是有可能依照不同的職場做分類那不知道"},{"start":330.934,"end":348.819,"text":"就是秘書長覺得這個部分可不可以去研議有沒有辦法稍微分類分流一下呢謝謝委員在這個實際執行面中提供我們那麼多寶貴建議這部分我想我們可以來研議因為委員報告其實就我的角色來講我也是填表人你也是填表人我們是接受保訓會作為機關之一我接受保訓會這邊的要求"},{"start":350.239,"end":370.887,"text":"所以我們在填這個部分的時候其實委員剛剛也就建議我們自己委會覺得有點共鳴這樣對對對要不然就填太多跟自己這個機構不相關的那真正要他注意的東西他反而忽略到那這樣就很可惜謝謝那個秘書長也覺得這是可以去精進的那再來我也想提一個部分其實你們這個處理原則中有明定迴避規定是蠻好的嘛"},{"start":373.108,"end":393.163,"text":"包含就是如果有就是機關要要求迴避或採取適當措施不得參與職場霸凌的相關調查工作行政程序法也有講到什麼本人、配偶、前配偶、血親、三等、三親等如果是事件當事人時要迴避這個沒問題吧?蔣秘書長這個是蠻好的規定"},{"start":398.121,"end":425.996,"text":"那現在的情況就是還有另外一個原則你們這邊也規範了這些都必須要保密對不對因為調查結果很可能霸凌不存在嘛所以這要保密這部分是不是也沒有問題是沒有問題那所以這邊你們也有寫得非常好保護當事人與受邀協助調查人員的個人隱私其他人格法役對其姓名或其他足以辨識身份之資料上面都講機關要落實保障嘛"},{"start":426.916,"end":450.843,"text":"這樣是不是也沒問題就是我們現在講的是調查過程並不是調查結果因為調查有可能成立有可能不成立在調查過程中因為時間有限那我這邊就收到陳情有陳情人陳情他們是被邀請的調查委員結果居然拿到當事人身份證字號及電話地址這個有必要嗎 秘書長你覺得"},{"start":453.767,"end":468.873,"text":"名字都不需要了居然還有身份證字號跟電話筆寫這個應該是不需要啦不需要喔所以這明顯就是說你們的辦法中寫了可是執行上這個檢核表可能會看不出來的那這個部分有好那謝謝祕書長也肯定這樣的事情應該不能發生那我想保訓會也肯定保訓會今年已經要積極增修訂相關指引"},{"start":486.506,"end":496.517,"text":"我想這是非常好的事喔那我想你們既然要做相關指引是不是可以做兩件事喔第一個謝謝剛剛秘書長已經講了就是分類更精進一點"},{"start":497.358,"end":518.547,"text":"那第二個你這個具體指引迴避原則要怎麼執行好像有人還是看不懂就是我想我收到的是願意信任我的來跟我澄清的那可能還有別的所以這整個不管是教育或者是具體指引的工作譬如申訴人足以辨識身份的資料這些如何遮蔽在操作上"},{"start":519.447,"end":540.132,"text":"是不是能夠更清楚更精進那確定在執行面真的能讓大家看到我們政府要做好就是防治霸凌的這整個細節這個秘書長可以承諾嗎這個委員剛剛的建議我們待會去來做一個討論看看到底是這個規範上面不夠細緻還是說在操作面大家可能沒有注意到"},{"start":540.712,"end":563.505,"text":"那如果這樣的話我想就需要處理的強化宣導或者是強化規範的部分我們來研議或者是指引可能寫的還不夠細大家看不懂那個迴避原則跟那個資料遮蔽的部分了解 這個我們待會去研究 謝謝你那那個秘書長可不可以大概多好時間內可以本席一個你們準備怎麼處理的報告或者讓我辦公室知道一下也不一定要那個報告"},{"start":565.421,"end":572.665,"text":"一個月一個月 非常好謝謝秘書長那就這樣子了肯定你們在這方面的努力那就一起精進謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}