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我們請全序部施部長好 請施部長秘書長 我主要是要針對這個相關考機法我在請教這個施部長那如果有其他有關政策部分秘書長如果要補充就請秘書長可以上台來做政策上面的這個整理政策的表述那這個施部長我想這個剛才前面也有委員有詢問到有關於我們這個公務人員的考機制度的相關問題"},{"start":42.079,"end":57.572,"text":"那我看你們這個業務報告,你們今天業務報告裡面有關今年工作重點及立法計畫第四點裡面就列入說你們要精進考機法制,建構完善的考機制度這是你們的工作重點,今年度的工作重點"},{"start":58.649,"end":79.021,"text":"那這個事實上我個人在這個我們在這個公共政策網路參與平台所謂中台獎裡面事實上也是有這樣子有關於這個考機法的這個相關提案這個部分市部長你有了解嗎我理解我知道這個網路我們公共政策網路平台也就是我們考機法的這個修改的部分事實上在這個"},{"start":83.063,"end":87.864,"text":"社會上面也是很重視這個議題而且已經討論多時了有各種不一樣的意見我在天下雜誌上面看到我們師部長關於烤雞法的發言基本上講說現行的烤雞法已經沒有獎勵效果了"},{"start":102.208,"end":123.501,"text":"這是用引號,這是事務長講的啦現行的考記法已經沒有獎勵的效果那他的標題,這個文章的標題就是說有做事沒做事,薪水都一樣就因為這些原因,所以我今天大概就針對考記法的部分,我會來跟事務長討論接下來在我們業務報告,一樣在我們業務報告裡面有關於近期已執行的業務情形"},{"start":124.261,"end":145.36,"text":"裡面你們提了兩點第一點是通盤檢討修正公務員考積法剛才討論的這個部分那第二點是檢討研修公務員任用法所以今天大概就考積法跟任用法這兩個部分來請教那這個其實公務員考積法它裡面的這些相關的問題很多是"},{"start":147.659,"end":170.828,"text":"同樣兩個價值的橫平啦就是這個公務體認用公平但是他同時他又要能夠這個這個這個激勵績效這樣子兩個價值之間的橫平會造這個橫平所以他在從過去一直到現在公務員考積法他一直是大法官會議解釋的常客就是說可以說大法官會議解釋裡面最多的就是公務員考積法"},{"start":171.848,"end":191.784,"text":"從歷年來大法官會議解釋有八次大法官會議解釋針對我們這個公務員考機法那在憲法法庭還有一次憲法判決加起來其實九次的這個判決那事實上在這個從民國75年到114年我們也提過五次修法整個這個公務員考機法有五次修法"},{"start":192.825,"end":208.759,"text":"那這整個這種體系我想從過去到現在其實市部長我想給你相當的肯定啦因為你大概非常我看你非常用心的是真的真的把它當作一個志業啦要改革這公務人員考機制度我看你是真的很用心的在在談但這個問題"},{"start":211.653,"end":240.815,"text":"非常很重要而且你很用心但是他偏偏他就是在在他的改革是不容易的不容易的那所以我大概就是從這個從過去這個公務人員考機考機法的修法經驗過去說五次提我們五次提到立法院來修法但是都後來都沒有修成了都沒有修成了因為這個都都每次一到這個什麼考機比例到比例要不要要不要維持到這些爭議這個就大家就這個共識就很低了所以每一次都沒有修法修成了那"},{"start":241.636,"end":268.337,"text":"我們大概在整個我們把它提到這個既然你們又把它列為今年度的重要工作事項那也是你們的重要工作成果所以我們就重點就是說我們這個公務員考機法修法到底有哪幾個重點我這裡是提出這個三個大變相第一個就是我剛剛提的這個等地的比例就是到甲等有沒有要設置比例多少比例甲等地的比例這是第一個面向第二面向就是你在打考機的你那個區別"},{"start":270.325,"end":283.676,"text":"他到底具不具區別性的這個平良的機制到底要建立這是過去一直詬病的就是我們這個到底為什麼我甲等為什麼我乙等這個平良的這個機制這個東西這個平良性這個是第二個面向"},{"start":285.08,"end":305.572,"text":"那第三個面向就是大概就是這個一般基層公務員比較關心的就是那你主管打烤雞你要不要負責就是你這個主管的平和責任我做平和這個責任大概這三個面向是我們如果我們要做烤雞法的改革我想這三個是重要的面向所以一個一個面向來跟這個部長討論你們在全區部我看在這個"},{"start":309.909,"end":329.51,"text":"一個禮拜前你們全區部有講說你們這個其實你們過去到現在你們已經經過這個向考試院進行了五次的專案說明進行五次的專案說明而且你們在這個你們報告裡面也提到從114年6月到8月召開三次的專案會議這個專案說明會議而且"},{"start":332.498,"end":359.551,"text":"達成一定的共識之後在十月跟十一月又召開兩次總共召開五次的專案說明會議嘛對不對那有關於這個我現在要請問部長就是說有關這個長期大家對於這個比例配合的這個僵化這部分我們什麼樣的改革方向我想我用更整體來跟委員報告可能因為我們的方向會跟現在不一樣所以不能用現在甲乙丙這種概念來看我們未來的方向簡單講"},{"start":361.192,"end":370.051,"text":"我長期在政府部門服務那我自己是學人資的那我還是要坦白講人資的那一套理論"},{"start":371.394,"end":394.921,"text":"或技術放在政府部門來必須要做修正要不然會沒有辦法可行性在政府部門如果沒有辦法可行性就是為什麼以前送的五次烤雞法的方式通通沒有下文對 沒有下文就是因為它會有可行性的問題但是我們希望又可行又要兼顧一些也不要說完全沒有效果所以我們大的方向是這樣子"},{"start":395.741,"end":420.837,"text":"我們不會再有夾魚餅那個概念我們會重新用另外簡化的等次我不贊成如果我們現在連夾魚都很難區別的如果你再把顆粒再拉高老實說那爭論會更大所以我們的方式是簡化方式簡單講我們大概會當烤雞簡單講未來機關要達到最重要兩件事情"},{"start":422.011,"end":444.587,"text":"如果我們會設定條件那個真的是做不好的符合什麼條件你就是未打良好那只要你沒有未打良好基本上就是就是非常好 良好那在良好上面如果我們再有一個條件如果你真的符合更好 優等 特優我們就這樣子而已那所以但是從"},{"start":446.528,"end":455.049,"text":"從理論的實務或者人質的實務不可能特優惹人會比那所謂良好跟對好這是我們要改變嘛那所謂良好跟不良"},{"start":456.444,"end":480.343,"text":"這兩個中有比例我們不會設定比例這是重點我們絕對不會設定比例不設定比例 這個比例才是重點何時根據法定的標準不管它叫做假等 叫做疑等還是它叫做良好 叫做優良都是到底要不要設定比例這個問題我們不會去設定所謂叫未達良好了這個比例不會 因為我們就根據你符合這個條項 機關就要何時考基本上我們的整個修法方向是要把過去的這個比例"},{"start":481.664,"end":503.016,"text":"這個比例配額的僵化要把它廢除掉這是第一個方向這是第一個面向第二個面向有關於評量方式過去這個評量方式大家一直在講說不過如果你簡化之後這個評量方式就比較容易了我們就是有兩個主要的標準一個是如果未達良好必須要什麼標準未達良好基本上要有一些具體的事證如果你要更好你就要有什麼標準我們主要是用這兩個概念"},{"start":504.537,"end":523.107,"text":"接下來就是第三個面向就是我們所提到的主管平和的責任這個有我們剛剛講在這撞開講這個網路政策平台上面大家提到說你要付理由啦要付理由所以你剛剛講說如果我們未來改成說良好跟未達良好那未達良好部分你一定要"},{"start":523.447,"end":539.613,"text":"一定要附相關的書面理由跟說明而且我們會認為如果你年終要打人家未了良好在平常的考核裡面就一定要先示警平常要示警就是平常考核的時候如果你覺得他真的不好"},{"start":540.433,"end":568.406,"text":"未達人你一定要在 你在真正最後做考機之前而且要跟他溝通因為我們不希望 老實說政府部門大家辛辛苦苦考進來我們不希望呢好像是隨便就fire一個同仁這也不是好事情啦所以過程要給他這個知道說他做得好不好好 這樣子的修法方向我個人是非常支持而且我認為說這樣子事實上可以解決一下我剛剛講這整個三大面向的這些問題啦 這個可以一併解決那我們希望說 那時程呢你們計畫什麼時候"},{"start":570.708,"end":588.303,"text":"應該這樣講我們大概我剛剛有報告我預計在這個月會正式進入跟各機關發出正式的這個意見徵詢但是我們會請各機關也要把這個意見那你們預計在什麼時候完成如果順利的話我想我希望在下個月如果順利啦"},{"start":588.723,"end":607.869,"text":"大家同意我們這個做法的話我不希望說大家有意見我還往考試院送老實說也沒有意義啦所以我希望在這樣一個過程裡面大概能夠順利到下個月四月到五月之中間我能夠順利把這個法案草案送到考試院因為還是要經過考試院就是希望說四月五月能夠送到考試院"},{"start":609.189,"end":626.479,"text":"這樣子就時程也很具體了那一個小問題就是過去在修法的時候常常說在打烤機的時候你們這個修法的時程跟這個打烤機的時間重疊人事行政局就說你這樣子我根本我就這個部分要注意一下謝謝委員的提醒這個部分烤機法到這裡"},{"start":630.439,"end":652.964,"text":"關於公務人員任用法的部分,我這邊給你顯示一個比例我看這近六年公務人員辭職的人數看比例,其實辭職率看起來提升沒有很多,從0.8%提升到1.4%比例看起來沒有很高但其實實際上的辭職人數是攀升從1157個人到將近2000人"},{"start":658.085,"end":677.299,"text":"這個其實攀升的比例那這樣子的你們是怎麼看待你們覺得這個是人力結構的流失還是你們覺得這個影響有限我做一個部長我長期觀察這個數字來講事實上人數在增加沒有錯但是它佔整個公務人員比例真的是很低"},{"start":678.683,"end":696.235,"text":"這剛我講的比例1.4而已那我再講一個數字我們在很多辭職的同仁裡面大部分都是新進的沒幾年的同仁那他後來又重新考試回來快有兩成左右已經考回來我接下來就是要講這個所以我的意思在講是所以問題一定有問題"},{"start":698.596,"end":718.213,"text":"為什麼我考上了我要辭掉然後在兩年內我再去拚另外一個考試再考進來因為我們是分發考試我們是分發考試他可能分到了機關他覺得而且不得轉任不得轉任對不對因為我們現在有高普考三年地特有六年"},{"start":718.974,"end":736.575,"text":"那我跟委員報告,這個一定是用人機關很複雜議題的政策啦,算在法律裡面這近六年來齁,這個辭職的公務員,剛剛你講有兩層會在任公職這兩人裡面有七成五次,第二次在考試考進來的再重新再考試的齁所以這個,我們"},{"start":738.897,"end":757.145,"text":"對於這個高考的這些綁約地特這樣子的這些問題我們有沒有想要做改變或檢討我跟委員報告我們現在當然已經有一個室友是說如果他有育三歲以下的一個小孩子可以在一定條件裡面他可以轉啦那我們一方面也在檢討這個可能要請秘書長我們這個"},{"start":760.425,"end":782.619,"text":"這個其實不得轉調的這些相關的法條依據是在公務人員考試法裡面那這個部分我們是不是能夠整體做結構性的調整要不然這實在是我們一說出來就很荒謬這麼多人大家考上了我還辭掉辭掉再去重新考再考回來如果這掉了我還是不高興那我再辭我再考"},{"start":783.776,"end":805.964,"text":"我瞭解委員講這個問題這個是我們國家的特殊結構下的特殊的副作用因為我們是統一考試統一分發用人機關完全不能選擇他就等著我們分發一個人給他但是分發的這個權利是在於考生依照分數去填寫他的志願但他填寫志願的時候我簡單講他最後填了一個譬如說在東部"},{"start":806.764,"end":834.6,"text":"他並不是真的想去東部服務但他只是想要拿到這個分發以後完成訓練使得他可以得到公務員資格那所以 拿到公務員資格之後他就有一個底氣他可以重考在職重考或離職重考但他已經具備資格所以這個對用人機關來講是很大的困擾就是說我提供了一個職缺但這個人心不在此然後我們就變成一個過水跟新人訓練的機關所以我們也必須考慮到他們的需求要有限制轉調這個要求啦"},{"start":835,"end":841.583,"text":"那但是這個現在要怎麼樣提前解除這個條件我們可以來討論你們檢討一下除了這個離職率以外我們看看我最後提到這個你看我們這個辭職的從108年到113年辭職的人員的職等跟年資"},{"start":854.548,"end":865.197,"text":"其實蠻集中的,其實真的蠻集中,集中在幾個職等在委任三職等跟建任六職等、建任七職等加起來,這三個加起來就到68%"},{"start":866.809,"end":892.365,"text":"這個就要實質的68%快到七成了那如果是70等以下的幾乎就是九成了幾乎就是九成了這問題我希望說我們能夠也能夠針對這樣子這個做一些具體的改革方向包括考機機效這些聯動機制還是要留才啦還是要留才好不好 曾委員希望報這個值等就是剛剛好那個考試剛分發的對就是考試剛分發就集中在這裡就快到七成了好以上"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:55:31.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:55:33.494000+08:00","text":"主席，我們請銓敘部施部長。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T09:55:33.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:55:35.055000+08:00","text":"請施部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:55:35.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:55:49.425000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我主要是針對考績法相關內容請教施部長，如果秘書長要補充其他有關政策的部分，就請秘書長可以上臺來做整體政策的表述。","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:55:49.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:55:51.426000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:55:51.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:56:15.572000+08:00","text":"施部長，剛才前面也有委員詢問到關於公務人員考績制度的相關問題，我看你們今天業務報告裡面的今年工作重點及立法計畫第四點就列入：精進考績法制，建構完善考績制度，這是你們今年度的工作重點。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:56:18.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:56:30.317000+08:00","text":"事實上，在公共政策網路參與平臺所謂的「眾開講」裡面也有關於考績法的相關提案，這個部分施部長有了解嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:56:30.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:56:31.638000+08:00","text":"我理解，我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:56:32.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:56:43.163000+08:00","text":"知道嘛，在這個公共政策網路平臺，也就是我們考績法修改的部分在社會上也很重視這個議題，而且已經討論多時了，有各種不一樣的意見。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T09:56:43.163000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T09:56:44.163000+08:00","text":"對，我們大概……","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:56:43.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:57:11.215000+08:00","text":"兩天前我在天下雜誌上面看到施部長關於考績法的發言，基本上就是講說現行的考績法已經沒有獎勵效果了，這是用引號，這是施部長講的，就是現行的考績法已經沒有獎勵的效果，這篇文章的標題就是「有做事、沒做事薪水都一樣」。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:57:11.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:57:16.678000+08:00","text":"因為這些原因，所以我今天大概就針對考績法的部分來跟施部長討論。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:57:16.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:57:30.549000+08:00","text":"接下來也一樣在你們業務報告中，有關近期已執行的業務情形裡面你們提了兩點，第一點是通盤檢討修正公務人員考績法，就是剛才討論的部分；第二點是檢討研修公務人員任用法。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:57:31.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:57:35.133000+08:00","text":"所以我今天大概會就考績法跟任用法這兩個部分來請教。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:57:37.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:58:20.577000+08:00","text":"其實公務人員考績法裡面的這些相關問題很多是同樣兩個價值的衡平，就是公務體系任用公平但是同時又要能夠激勵績效，這是兩個價值之間的衡平，所以從過去一直到現在，公務人員考績法一直是大法官會議解釋的常客，可以說大法官會議解釋裡面最多的幾乎就是公務人員考績法，歷年來大法官會議解釋有8次大法官會議解釋針對公務人員考績法，到了憲法法庭還有一次憲法判決，加起來其實有9次的判決。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:58:20.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:58:55.277000+08:00","text":"事實上，整個公務人員考績法從民國75年到114年也提過5次修法，關於這整個任用體系從過去到現在，其實我想給施部長相當的肯定，我看你非常用心而且真的把它當作一個志業、要改革公務人員考績制度，我看你是真的很用心在談，這個問題非常重要而且你很用心，但是它的改革是不容易的。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:58:57.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:59:17.715000+08:00","text":"我大概從過去公務人員考績法的修法經驗來看，過去你們5次提到立法院來修法，但是後來都沒有修成，因為每次遇到考績比例要不要維持的這些爭議，大家的共識就很低了，所以每一次都沒有修法修成。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:59:21.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:59:31.906000+08:00","text":"既然你們又把它列為今年度的重要工作事項，也是你們的重要工作成果，而公務人員考績法修法到底有哪幾個重點？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:59:31.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:59:54.950000+08:00","text":"我這邊提出三個大面向，第一個就是我剛剛提的等第比例，關於甲等有沒有要設置比例、多少比例為甲，這個等第的比例是第一個面向；第二面向就是建立更具區辨性的評量機制，這是過去一直被詬病的，就是到底為什麼我是甲等？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:59:55.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T09:59:55.551000+08:00","text":"為什麼我是乙等？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T09:59:56.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:00:13.746000+08:00","text":"這個評量的機制，也就是評量性，這是第二個面向；第三個面向大概是一般基層公務人員比較關心的，就是主管打考績要不要負責，也就是主管的評核責任。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:00:16.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:00:23.112000+08:00","text":"如果要做考績法的改革，我想這三個是重要的面向，所以我一個一個面向來跟部長討論。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:00:27.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:00:55.541000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜前，銓敘部有講說其實你們從過去到現在，已經向考試院進行了5次專案說明，而且你們在報告裡面也提到，從114年6月到8月召開3次專案會議，達成一定的共識之後，在10月跟11月又召開兩次，總共召開5次的專案說明會議嘛，對不對？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:00:58.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:01:04.945000+08:00","text":"我現在要請問部長，有關長期來大家對於比例配額的僵化，在這部分有什麼樣的改革方向？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:01:06.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:01:35.296000+08:00","text":"我更整體地跟委員報告，因為我們的方向會跟現在不一樣，所以不能用現在甲乙丙這種概念來看未來的方向，簡單講，我長期在政府部門服務，我自己是學人資的，我還是要坦白講，人資那一套理論或技術放在政府部門必須要修正，不然沒有辦法具可行性。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:01:35.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:01:42.778000+08:00","text":"在政府部門如果沒有辦法具可行性，這就是為什麼以前送的5次考績法的方式，通通沒有下文。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:01:43.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:01:43.498000+08:00","text":"對，沒有下文。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:01:43.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:01:58.984000+08:00","text":"就是因為會有可行性的問題，但是我們希望又具可行性，又要兼顧一些……也不要說完全沒有效果，所以大的方向是這樣子，我們不會再有甲乙丙那個概念，會重新另外用簡化的等次。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:01:59.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:38.023000+08:00","text":"我不贊成，如果我們現在連甲乙都很難區別了，如果把科例再拉高，老實說爭論會更大，所以我們的方式是簡化，簡單講，未來機關要達到最重要的兩件事情，我們會設定條件，真的是做不好的，符合什麼條件就是未達良好；只要不是未達良好，基本上就是非常好、良好；在良好上面，再有一個條件，如果真的符合法定條件……","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:38.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:40.745000+08:00","text":"更好、優等、特優。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:40.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:41.706000+08:00","text":"更好，就這樣子而已。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:41.706000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:42.706000+08:00","text":"優等、特優，對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:42.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:47.395000+08:00","text":"但是從理論的實務或者人治的實務，不可能特優的人會比良好的人高嘛！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:47.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:50.844000+08:00","text":"所謂良好跟……對，這個是我們要改變嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:50.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:54.945000+08:00","text":"那所謂良好跟不良，這兩個有比例……","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:55.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:56.926000+08:00","text":"我們不會設定比例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:57.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:58.047000+08:00","text":"不會設定比例，這個是重點。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:58.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:02:59.108000+08:00","text":"我們絕對不會設定比例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:02:59.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:01.090000+08:00","text":"不設定比例，比例的部分才是重點。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:01.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:02.090000+08:00","text":"要覈實根據法定標準。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:02.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:08.335000+08:00","text":"不管叫做甲等、叫做乙等，還是叫做良好、叫做優良，都是到底要不要設定比例的問題。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:08.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:13.660000+08:00","text":"我們不會去設定所謂未達良好的比例，因為我們就根據符合的條件，機關要覈實考核。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:13.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:21.966000+08:00","text":"也就是基本上整個修法的方向，是要把過去這個比例配額的僵化廢除掉。對。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:22.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:23.807000+08:00","text":"好，這是第一個方向、第一個面向。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:24.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:25.848000+08:00","text":"第二個面向是有關於評量方式。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:26.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:31.151000+08:00","text":"過去大家一直在講說這個評量方式……不過，如果簡化之後，這個評量方式就比較容易。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:31.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:34.653000+08:00","text":"我們就是有兩個主要的標準，一個是未達良好必須要有什麼標準……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:34.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:37.454000+08:00","text":"所以未達良好，基本上要有一些具體的事證。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:37.454000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:38.454000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:37.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:39.796000+08:00","text":"如果要更好，就要有什麼標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:40.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:40.996000+08:00","text":"我們主要是用這兩個概念。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:42.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:53.563000+08:00","text":"接下來是第三個面向，就是我們所提到的主管評核責任，剛剛講到網路政策平臺上面，大家也提到說要附理由啦！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:53.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:03:56.304000+08:00","text":"我知道，對啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:03:56.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:00.627000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講說如果未來改成良好跟未達良好，未達良好的部分，一定要……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:00.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:01.087000+08:00","text":"一定要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:01.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:05.548000+08:00","text":"一定要附相關的書面理由跟說明，對不對？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:05.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:12.071000+08:00","text":"而且我們認為如果年終要打人家考績是未達良好，那在平常的考核裡面就一定要先示警啦！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:13.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:14.332000+08:00","text":"平常要示警？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:14.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:19.273000+08:00","text":"就是平常考核的時候，如果覺得他真的不好，針對未達的，你一定要在這個過程……","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:19.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:21.174000+08:00","text":"在真正最後做考績之前的這一年，必須要對他示警。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:22.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:35.961000+08:00","text":"而且要跟他溝通一下，因為我們不希望……老實說大家在政府部門都是辛辛苦苦考進來的，我們不希望好像是隨便就fire一個同仁，這也不是好事情啦，所以過程要讓他知道，讓他知道做得好不好。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:36.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:46.226000+08:00","text":"好，這樣子的修法方向，我個人是非常支持，而且我認為這樣子事實上是可以解決我剛剛講的三大面向的問題，這個部分可以一併解決，那時程呢？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:46.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:04:46.386000+08:00","text":"你們計畫什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:04:48.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:00.558000+08:00","text":"應該這樣講，我剛剛有報告，預計在這個月會正式跟各機關發出正式的意見徵詢，我們也會請各機關要把這個意見轉給他……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:00.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:02.139000+08:00","text":"你們預計在什麼時候完成意見徵詢？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:02.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:13.165000+08:00","text":"如果順利的話，我希望在下個月……如果順利啦，大家同意我們這個做法的話，我不希望大家有意見，我卻還往考試院送，老實說這也沒有意義啦！","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:13.165000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:14.165000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:13.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:23.308000+08:00","text":"所以我希望在這樣的過程裡面，如果順利的話，下個月4月到5月中間，能夠順利把法案草案送到考試院，因為還是要經過考試院。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:23.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:25.849000+08:00","text":"就是希望4月、5月能夠送到考試院？對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:27.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:29.090000+08:00","text":"這樣子時程就很具體了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:30.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:38.756000+08:00","text":"還有一個小問題，就是過去修法時常常都是在打考績的時候，就是修法的時程跟打考績的時間重疊……","quality":0.634},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:38.756000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:39.756000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:38.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:42.778000+08:00","text":"人事行政局就說這樣子我根本……這個部分要注意一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:43.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:44.079000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒，這個涉及實施的時間。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:44.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:05:44.479000+08:00","text":"考績法的部分就到這裡。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:05:48.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:10.204000+08:00","text":"有關公務人員任用法的部分，我這邊給你顯示一個比率，剛才也有委員提示，近6年公務人員辭職的人數，辭職率並沒有提升很多，從0.8%提升到1.4%，比率看起來沒有很高，但實際上的辭職人數是攀升……","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:10.204000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:11.204000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:10.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:22.150000+08:00","text":"從1,157人到將近兩千人，這個攀升的比率，你們是怎麼看待？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:22.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:23.791000+08:00","text":"你們覺得這個是人力結構的流失？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:23.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:25.012000+08:00","text":"還是你們覺得這個影響有限？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:25.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:35.279000+08:00","text":"我做為一個部長，長期觀察這個數字來講，我必須講事實上人數在增加沒有錯，但是占整個公務人員的比率真的是很低，所以……","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:36.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:37.484000+08:00","text":"這就是剛剛我講的，比率1.4%而已。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:38.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:48.791000+08:00","text":"我再講一個數字，在很多辭職的同仁裡面，大部分都是新進沒幾年的同仁，他後來又重新考試回來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:48.791000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:49.791000+08:00","text":"好，我接下來就是要講這個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:48.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:50.953000+08:00","text":"大概有快要兩成左右考回來，所以意思就是……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:50.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:51.973000+08:00","text":"我接下來就是要講這個，你看、你看，我接下來就是要講這個。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:51.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:06:53.594000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是在講……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:06:53.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:02.722000+08:00","text":"所以一定有問題，為什麼考上了要辭掉，然後在兩年內再去拼另外一個考試考進來？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:02.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:05.404000+08:00","text":"因為我們是分發考試。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:05.404000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:06.404000+08:00","text":"「吃飽太閒」嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:06.404000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:07.404000+08:00","text":"不是嘛，一定有問題！","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:05.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:08.587000+08:00","text":"我們是分發考試，可能他被分發的機關，他覺得……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:09.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:11.850000+08:00","text":"而且不得轉任，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:12.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:22.441000+08:00","text":"現在高普考是3年，地特有6年，我跟委員報告，這個部分一定是用人機關很複雜的政策議題而放在法律裡面。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:22.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:42.499000+08:00","text":"近6年來辭職的公務人員，就剛剛你講的，有兩成會再任公職，2年裡面有七成五是第二次再考試進來的，再重新考試的，所以對於高考、地特綁約的這些問題，有沒有想要改變或檢討？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:42.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:52.304000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，現在當然已經有一個事由是如果育有3歲以下的小孩子，在一定條件裡面他可以轉啦！","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:52.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:07:54.224000+08:00","text":"我們一方面也在檢討這個事由，可不可以……","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:07:54.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:04.209000+08:00","text":"這個可能要請教秘書長，其實不得轉調相關的法條依據是在公務人員考試法……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:04.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:05.463000+08:00","text":"考試法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:05.463000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:06.717000+08:00","text":"是在公務人員考試法裡面，不是在任用法。","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:06.717000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:07.971000+08:00","text":"對，在考試法的規範。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:07.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:10.773000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是能夠整體做結構性的調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:10.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:20.599000+08:00","text":"要不然一說出來實在很荒謬，這麼多人考上了還辭掉，辭掉再重新考回來，如果還是不高興，那再辭又再考。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:21.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:34.921000+08:00","text":"我了解委員講的這個問題，這是我們國家特殊結構下的特殊副作用，因為我們是統一考試統一分發，用人機關完全不能選擇，就等著我們分發一個人給他。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:35.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:08:52.188000+08:00","text":"但是分發的權力是在於考生依照分數填寫志願，他填寫志願的時候……我簡單講，他最後填了一個比如在東部，他並不是真的想去東部服務，只是想要在分發以後完成訓練，使得他可以得到公務員資格。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:08:53.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:09:08.838000+08:00","text":"拿到公務員資格之後，他就有一個底氣可以重考，在職重考或離職重考，因為他已經具備資格，所以這個對用人機關來講是很大的困擾，就是提供了一個職缺，但這個人心並不在此，然後就變成一個過水跟新人訓練的機關。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:09:08.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:09:16.561000+08:00","text":"所以我們也必須考慮到他們的需求，要有限制轉調的要求，但是現在要怎麼樣提前解除這個條件，我們可以來討論怎麼樣……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:09:16.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:09:16.922000+08:00","text":"你們檢討一下啦。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T10:09:16.922000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:09:17.922000+08:00","text":"更人性化一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:09:17.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:09:50.172000+08:00","text":"除了離職率以外，我最後再提到這個部分，就是108年到113年辭職人員的職等跟年資，其實真的蠻集中在幾個職等，在委任第三職等跟薦任第六職等、薦任第七職等，這三個加起來就到辭職的68%，快到七成，如果是第七職等以下的就幾乎是九成啦！","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:09:52.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:10:00.679000+08:00","text":"針對這個問題，我希望也能夠做一些具體的改革方向，包括考績、績效這些連動機制，還是要留才啦！沒錯。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T10:10:02.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:10:05.722000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個職等剛好就是考試剛分發的。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-03-19T10:10:06.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T10:10:10.345000+08:00","text":"對，考試剛分發的，就集中在這裡，快到七成欸！以上。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T10:10:10.845000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:10:12.273571+08:00","text":"謝謝沈委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T10:10:12.573571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T10:10:15.716429+08:00","text":"接下來請林沛祥委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}