{"error":false,"id":["167699"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167699,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167699","日期":"2026-03-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-19T10:10:19+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-19T10:22:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ddc1636ead3b8e590b34014309cfdc2b9f861acbcf5e15015e5c86e8186f6ced15f377d25edfc7d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"10:10:19 - 10:22:04","會議時間":"2026-03-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及19日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.379093750000003,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.67346875,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.73659375,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.95596875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.60096875,"end":25.664093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.309718750000002,"end":25.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.664093750000003,"end":25.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.69784375,"end":25.934093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.136593750000003,"end":37.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.89846875,"end":37.915343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.556593750000005,"end":38.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.36659375,"end":42.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.30284375,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.90596875,"end":53.625968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.305343750000006,"end":53.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.625968750000006,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.642843750000004,"end":53.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.79471875,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.48221875,"end":60.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.595343750000005,"end":75.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.17721875,"end":63.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.63096875000001,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.03159375,"end":77.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.55471875,"end":77.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.67284375,"end":85.90784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.09346875,"end":97.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.83096875000001,"end":92.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.87221875,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.71909375000001,"end":108.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.50784375,"end":154.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.56471875000001,"end":121.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.93596875,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.70784375000001,"end":124.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.71409375000002,"end":139.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.97721875000002,"end":156.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.56346875,"end":184.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.06534375,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.54909375000003,"end":207.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.93096875,"end":216.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.43596875,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.38096875000002,"end":226.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.86471875,"end":250.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.70471875,"end":254.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.14721875,"end":256.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.12159375,"end":273.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.85471875,"end":265.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.02721875000003,"end":267.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.91221875,"end":284.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.86534375,"end":277.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.84721875,"end":293.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.12534375,"end":288.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.57159375000003,"end":317.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.74034375,"end":293.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.61846875000003,"end":341.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.05784375,"end":350.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.48659375,"end":353.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.08971875000003,"end":354.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.24534375,"end":363.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.58596875,"end":365.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.91034375000004,"end":379.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.88721875000005,"end":381.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.50721875000005,"end":382.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.80221875,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.00346875,"end":407.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.33034375000005,"end":418.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.34096875,"end":423.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.42034375000003,"end":437.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.78534375000004,"end":446.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.81346875,"end":461.89971875000003},{"spe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有請考試院劉秘書長跟我們程序部施部長好 請秘書長還有施部長兩位長官 我想先請問一個我想全國都很關心的問題就是現在到底軍人加薪跟警消退休金的狀況是怎麼樣目前執行的狀況如何呢"},{"start":39.617,"end":59.314,"text":"軍人加薪不是我們的業務範圍那您說警察就是就那個警察人事條例修法的部分那就審定的部分全區部這邊去年底已經之前都已經完成審定函那執行的部分呢執行的狀況如何執行的狀況因為這個就是跟全區跟這個對不起跟行政院編列預算這個有關"},{"start":61.055,"end":85.618,"text":"所以說就是行政院沒有編列預算嘛現在的狀況是那所以如果問題是出在行政院的話那行政院不願意編列預算是不是我們考試院應該主動啟動所謂的院計協商來去依法編列預算呢跟委員報告因為它這個修法是修在警察人事條例裡面這個條例是行政院的主管的法律所以也不是考試院主管的法律"},{"start":86.192,"end":96.837,"text":"那他的預算法律在行政院那預算也是行政院要編列依照法律的規定所以這個我們沒有這個反而是跟我們的退府制度是沒有沒有關聯"},{"start":97.938,"end":124.972,"text":"所以我所以說現在狀況就是說沒有編列預算那小勢雲變成是說這個法過了但是沒錢可以沒錢可以執行對吧對他目前的狀況是這樣老師說我就覺得我讓我覺得很困惑因為嚴格講起來不管不是只有公務人員是公務人員警員警軍人也好警消也好也是廣義的公務人員也是所謂廣義的這個國家體制他就是公務人員的一部分對對對"},{"start":126.013,"end":154.28,"text":"那老實說他們在比起一般的公務人員來講警消尤其是警消軍警其實對於國家的保護跟幫助是更重要的他們長期站在第一線他們的壓力比別人都來的大老實說我們現在看到我們很多的法制都是選美國那美國也好還是說任何先進國家至少是優等優良的先進國家都對於軍公教警消是給予"},{"start":155.182,"end":155.892,"text":"足夠的照顧的"},{"start":156.636,"end":184.382,"text":"但是很可惜的說真的如果法律通過之後我們行政部門沒有依法執行然後甚至說特地苛扣預算那嚴格講起來對於我們的這個公務人員其實蠻刻薄的不管是哪個黨對於說這個年改政策把退休金一砍再砍我想在座的所有的文官體系文官體系出來的人都會覺得感同身受這是不好的這是不對的"},{"start":185.262,"end":207.285,"text":"尤其是說我剛剛查了一下整個公務員體系在美國的這個整個金額是台灣的三倍到五倍之多但是相對比較起來我們台灣就用這種年改之類的這種年改方式對於這個我們的公務人員無形的苛扣那我是不知道說各位的感覺怎麼樣我是覺得不捨啦"},{"start":208.005,"end":225.999,"text":"因為我的想法一向都是如果我們這個國家要能夠好好運行要能夠正確運行那優質的公務人員不能少但是另外一方面我也想就是直接講如果說預算沒有編那其實難免會讓很多的公務體系的人心寒"},{"start":226.94,"end":250.059,"text":"那同樣的不只是對過去的公務人員對過去的警消對過去的軍人那他們是苛扣的之外其實對新來的人才要進來剛剛我也聽到說市部長在回應這個審發會委員的質詢那其實這公務體系裡面現在變成是說請問一下要報考的人是不是越來越少啦"},{"start":252.539,"end":273.158,"text":"警察整體是整體報告人數受殺死亡影響一定會下降但是警察報告人數目前我們還沒有說不是問題不過消防的部分比較有空缺因為主要是我們的需求量變得很大所以我們考進來的人越來越多入選人"},{"start":274.179,"end":292.813,"text":"儘管有增加但是缺員越來越多因為大家需要更多的人力去執行這個工作然後讓大家不要過勞所以這個部分的需求還沒有辦法完全平衡那整體公務人員呢我也想請教整體公務人員的考試人數是下降中那其實是想算是另外一種的國安危機吧"},{"start":294.292,"end":317.083,"text":"除了人員危機除了少子化危機之外當然跟少子化危機會有一點關係但是最直接的就是說如果我們國家的優秀人才都不願意投身公務系統的時候那會不會導致說我們國家整個行政效率或整個國家整個制度的敗壞呢這算是另外一種的國安危機其實但是我們都選擇性的不看到嗎"},{"start":318.235,"end":338.294,"text":"這個不會說沒有看到不過我想他主要重點的問題是反映在那幾個入局不足額的相關類科就是我們會聚焦在這幾個部分來努力那整體雖然說報考人數有降低但是我想積極想考公務員的人他還是會積極報告就是我們看到很多重複入局啊重複報考甚至辭職再去考就表示說其實還是有"},{"start":339.114,"end":361.074,"text":"熱心想要來這個體系的人還是會很努力的想請問一下目前考試院掌握的最新數據是多少去年報考公務人員的報考人數是多少那整體報考率大概是多少這個我請部長來說明好委員好 公務員報告去年整個公務人員考試報考的是149,130人那錄取是18,413人"},{"start":366.92,"end":391.013,"text":"好那我想請問一下那如果說現在報考人數向低嘛那各方面都在降低那請問一下如果有沒有什麼具體的改革方案我聽說好像前一陣子好像就把我們的國家考試報名費調漲了25%那現在有動漲嗎跟委員報告那因為是考選基金如果不做這個調整的話可能今年底就破產了所以我們也是不得已必須做這樣的調漲"},{"start":392.065,"end":418.395,"text":"那如果在這個前提之下因為考選基金要破產所以我們調高的報名費那我們現在也實質的報考人數在往下降很多那是不是最後面是說一考就上還是說我們就是什麼人才會亂選呢有沒有可能呢跟委員報告目前的入取率大概是百分之二十但是還是要看類科那其實跟委員所關心的大概主要會集中在幾個類科不足額的情況會比較高特別是土木類科"},{"start":419.406,"end":436.713,"text":"土木類課一個類課大概就佔了說不足我的大概的三分之二所以說老實講我為什麼提出謝謝謝謝部長市部長也請回好了不好意思我其實為什麼提出這些問題其實有一個就是一個都只剩下同一個現象就是說當我們的公務人員"},{"start":437.933,"end":460.978,"text":"前面警消他們退休金該撥的沒有撥那我們三讀通過的法案沒有編列預算那其實表面上受害的只是說這些警消退休警消警消人員而已可是實質上全民都在看尤其是下一代的年輕人他們會覺得說講話都不算話我為什麼要進入公務體系"},{"start":463.078,"end":478.464,"text":"當我們公務體系的威信的誠信已經被嚴重去受到挑戰的時候我們怎麼期待說下一代的我們的這些新興學子覺得對於公務這個公務體系還有任何的憧憬有任何的改革方案嗎"},{"start":479.651,"end":507.558,"text":"各位報告那個您提的這個警察人條例修法跟預算編列的問題因為不是考試院職權所以我沒有辦法回應啦那對於您剛剛講說年輕人看到這個退休制度的部分他到底跟他報考的意願有沒有關係我想報考的意願這件事的確有非常多因素不過我要跟您報告就是說現在新進公務人員他適用的是個人專戶制所以我們現在在原來的退服法或者退服法之外的這個警察人條例的修正這個部分其實跟新進人員他們將來自己的"},{"start":508.779,"end":531.235,"text":"退休金的制度其實是脫鉤的是沒有關聯的因為他們已經在採用個人專戶制那個人專戶制它的優點就是說它比較不會出現這個繳少領多然後這個有潛藏債務的問題但它也有相對應的保障它跟我們的勞工制度也是對應的那但是您講的這個報考人數下降的部分當然我們會很重視有沒有具體方案啊老師說因為"},{"start":532.336,"end":546.796,"text":"我們聚焦在幾個真的是比較招募不足的部分我們這個有些部分要從教育資源的投入開始譬如說我們發現前一陣子我們發現就是說圖目人才的確有不足的錄取那它又反映在東部這邊"},{"start":547.957,"end":572.071,"text":"東部的縣市基層他們非常欠缺這個人力所以我們就檢討出說東部這邊其實沒有土木科系的教育高等教育作為他的人力的當地人力的培養的支撐所以我們跟工程會這邊協調我們跨院合作後來我們去協調宜蘭大學到花蓮去設置學分板我想我們在立法院其實如果我們遇到看到這個現象通常不是單純的個案"},{"start":573.852,"end":588.32,"text":"秘書長現在回答是單純個案的改善我講的是整個目前整個現況都是這樣那如果說可以的話你們的改革方案不是只有針對說我們現在講東部縣市土木學科而是明年搞不好還是一樣一堆"},{"start":589.801,"end":604.087,"text":"一堆的缺出來但是不見得有人可以對我剛剛在報告者有講就是說其實就一個年輕人來講我到民間部門我就是地理力表面試也許有考試但是那個考試絕對不會像我們國家考試那麼繁複"},{"start":604.907,"end":618.524,"text":"那年輕人要來進公部門他投注的成本真的很高我們其實調查很多錄取人員平均可能考三年然後在這個被考的期間他可能沒有正職工作他其實賦予非常大的心力很多人是這麼熱衷的就是願意來當動務員但他的確這個門檻很高"},{"start":623.13,"end":645.769,"text":"對 所以您講就是說我們多方面的解決方案包含我們講現在高補考要減課因為我們考試的門檻真的很高所以我們高補考減課也是減輕考生的負擔然後我們讓考試更聚焦核心職能我們希望讓考生在準備的成本不要太高否則他跟四部門求職的成本差距那麼大的話我們也很難去競爭"},{"start":646.935,"end":670.479,"text":"老師講您講的是一套但是老師講不管是說對於這個退休金制度的不公平之外然後還有包括說調漲國家考試因為這個考選基金要破產直接調高25%這其實講的是一套但是做的時候讓民眾有沒有感覺到讓未來的人願不願意投入公務體系我想你們自己會自己感覺最清楚"},{"start":671.359,"end":698.693,"text":"應付國會議員的質詢是一回事實質上現況如何解決又是一回事我會期待說考試院提出一個真正提出一個改革方案一個能夠激勵讓未來年輕人投入公文官體系的一個改革方案謝謝如果有機會的話再跟委員做下面講可以給我至少能調整的方向我會整一下我們對這個部分的做法來給委員做一個書面報告什麼時候要給我呢我想應該"},{"start":701.377,"end":702.963,"text":"一個月?一個月可以 沒有問題好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}