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我們有請林佳龍林部長請林部長我也好部長好 我想先問喔 欸你知道台灣GD是誰嗎欸有人笑就是你們知道 哇你們果然是外交部的專業同仁不會是你們取的吧"},{"start":22.967,"end":49.499,"text":"他們有時候這樣叫我是有點害羞啦不好意思因為你是good dragon嘛對不對有人這樣講但我不敢去沾光喔這不是我講的了解了解那但是因為這樣子那我想您對韓國應該很了解也很友善才對對我很多好朋友從學術界到現在那但我也要請教一下就是說從今天開始我們要如何來稱呼韓國勒"},{"start":52.223,"end":71.533,"text":"南韓嗎?南韓,好,南韓,OK好那麼呢,好,我們要從這個整個事件開始講起來是在去年12月的時候南韓的電子入境卡白台灣寫成這個台灣China之後呢引起很大的討論那在這個事件出來的時候,我想請問一下我們外交部的第一個做法應該是跟這個南韓這邊的相關的外交部門來做聯繫跟溝通希望他們能夠做調整,對嗎?"},{"start":78.696,"end":104.592,"text":"那對方是給予我們樣子就是在交涉我們先講交涉的這個部分那對方是給予我們什麼樣的一個回應他們本來是二月一號就要統一就沒有紙本統一什麼就是那個就是這個入境那個電子卡電子卡對以前還可以用手寫那統一的話就變成是都是寫台灣China的意思就是都用電子入境卡對啊電子入境卡不允許你用手寫的我知道現在他們延後了他們現在還是沒有說把它合併"},{"start":107.694,"end":132.589,"text":"是 但是沒有啊 因為你電子入境卡上面Taiwan China有被做任何的修正嗎他們在這部分 表示說我們跟他交涉之後我們去年底交涉之後 他2月1號是要整合的 就先放的那我問一下 那你們去交涉的時候你們只是說 哎呀 這個分開讓我有兩種選擇還是你們是認為說 你交涉的是你的南韓電子入境卡的這個部分不要寫Taiwan China"},{"start":133.95,"end":151.362,"text":"對那你剛講的那只是就是一種備案而已啊實際上面我們主要訴求人家沒有接受啊他們現在在處理中啊處理中對啊他說他們有了解我們的立場啊然後他們也在這個研究啊好好等一下我會再跟你進一步討論說他們他們您剛剛的意思是我們一個一個來"},{"start":152.102,"end":175.443,"text":"他們現在正在處理中要把南韓電子入境卡上面寫的台灣 China用其他的方式表示您的意思是這樣嗎對 他們就是正在研究中正在研究 那他有告訴你說要研究多久嗎他們有一個規劃 有一個期程嘛總是要有一個時間點嘛 不過我永遠都在研究 研究100年內結果委員今天的質詢之後 我想他們應該會聽到了沒有 我沒有那麼偉大 我不是台灣GD我沒那麼厲害"},{"start":177.885,"end":191.555,"text":"沒事 那但是南韓的媒體卻指出呢在南韓的官方文件當中一直都是用台灣China來標註台灣的那這個政府二十多年來包含這個其中也有八年是蔡英文總統的執政他說我們都沒有提出異議那請問一下南韓的媒體這樣子報導是有符合事實嗎還是過去其實我們有經過多次的抗議但對方沒有去做改善呢"},{"start":203.298,"end":216.505,"text":"這個是確實韓國一直這樣但是他現在是就是所謂的目的地跟他旅遊的上一站他把它用成China包含台灣所以這個是新制"},{"start":217.568,"end":223.012,"text":"心智是從什麼時候開始 因為它要電子化所以就要整合 去年二月整合是它原本本來有一個 但它有兩種辦法但現在本來要改成只有一種辦法那我先不談紙本的部分 我針對的是電子入境的部分那南韓的媒體它的報導是說 因為如果南韓媒體講的是錯的那我覺得我們也有責任在這裡公開告訴他們說你們這樣報導是不是實的"},{"start":243.746,"end":258.617,"text":"那他們的說法是說呢南韓的電子入境卡不講紙本喔一直以來都是用這樣的一個方式去做標註那你們都還是我們20多年來都沒有意見現在突然對我有意見過去都有意見只是沒有像我這麼樣的清楚直接有力就表達懂你的意思所以就是說過去確實有提出異議但是林佳龍部長是對於這個事情最強而有力去表達的"},{"start":269.645,"end":273.787,"text":"因為他去年二月開始就在我上任外交部長然後他要把他整合啊那整合就會連這個空間都沒有的時候我們當然要表達立場他也聽到了他也暫緩了現在三一我們也但我們不能等他因為他暫緩我們就不做我們該做的所以我們該做的就是呢所謂的反制措施也不是反制就是如實的記錄"},{"start":292.697,"end":307.538,"text":"不是啦 我們反制措施是把韓喬拘留證改成南韓嘛那原本是怎麼寫 現在改成怎麼寫跟大家說明一下好不好就是第一步啦 因為他們其實南韓政府曾經跟我們拜託嘛"},{"start":309.101,"end":335.024,"text":"就是以前最早的時候都把它用南韓然後呢後來變成韓國然後現在我們就說你這樣子對我那我要再叫你南韓是這個意思現在就 Korea 括號 SouthOK 所以他給我們這個對不起 校長China 括號台灣所以我給你 Korea 括號 South你是這個意思是對等跟尊嚴對等跟尊嚴 好有底氣那再來就是說呢"},{"start":336.685,"end":349.57,"text":"他們電子的不改我們改用紙本那這個也是屬於我們反制行為的一環嗎應該是說我們交涉啦我們其實是希望說這個東西能夠大家有一個解決的方法他也說聽到他也暫緩把它整合了"},{"start":352.191,"end":373.496,"text":"對啊所以這個就有時間來談但是我們3月1號因為是基於超支在我們的部分我知道我想要問的是我們用了哪一些我們用了哪一些的手段方式然後去宣傳說大家不要用電子入境卡都要用紙本沒有啦就是有這個選項至少還維持有些人想用台灣還可以用台灣那你有沒有建議嘛因為這也是報導報的如果他說電子化就沒有這個空間了啦"},{"start":378.957,"end":392.8,"text":"對 這個你剛剛講過了我現在講的是說呢因為現在有電子的嘛然後跟紙本的嘛那外交部是否有建議國人不要使用電子入境卡而改填紙本這個報導的這個標題是否屬虛這個標題有一點稍微有點不太一樣那具體是怎麼樣呢你聽我理解的是怎麼樣那如果說對於China括號台灣我們有些國人他很有他的立場啊他有另外一個選項OK"},{"start":407.142,"end":424.193,"text":"所以你沒有建議他要改資本只是說如果你個人覺得那你不想要用這個方式的話那你就填資本這個人的程式是這樣子但在國家的程式我跟他交涉就是基於說你必須要尊重台灣然後用可識別最簡單就是這個我清楚"},{"start":426.414,"end":432.455,"text":"那剛剛講到嘛那我們現在呢就要把這個喬韓的居留證你說以前我們叫你南韓後來呢這個韓國政府請託我們就叫你韓國好那現在呢我要把你改回這個Korea括號South南韓那部長您今天接受媒體訪問的時候你覺得這個會有效還是有效在哪個地方可不可以再具體幫我們解釋說你們是怎麼評估評估它會有效的那有效是有什麼效"},{"start":453.956,"end":458.217,"text":"有沒有效 當然我們先表達我們的立場交涉中他也聽到了 也做了初步先暫緩合併這個紙本跟電子卡但是呢 進一步我們也設定了一個時間3月11號我們希望說他有具體他得出來到底研究的結果是如何所以他有跟您訂一個時間點就是3月11號我們交涉的時候給他一個時間點我們下一步啊"},{"start":479.744,"end":484.425,"text":"我們訂3月11號會有進一步我們的作為都有先知會他所以是這樣子我們給對方的deadline叫做3月11號那如果3月11號對方就是還是這樣子3月31號對 因為我想11號已經過了 sorry3月31號所以我們給對方一個deadline叫做3月31號"},{"start":502.27,"end":510.536,"text":"那如果對方還是依然顧我沒有把韓國的這個入境標示卡去做調整的話我們還要再有進一步的動作是這樣嗎是那你們已經 我不問你喔因為給你到時候 給你到時候時間宣布這個我就不直接去問你反正3月31號之後我們就知道了嘛但是總之你們已經準備好新一波的這個反制作為等到3月31號不如我們預選的時候我們要推出來是這個意思嗎"},{"start":529.048,"end":546.958,"text":"我們交涉中啦當然我們相信對方已經有表達他有知道我們的意見對方有沒有成功我還不是很確定喔你這個也不是現在講說成功就成功因為這個所言甚是啦因為做外交的事情都不是單方面能夠決定因為很難講嘛因為我們看一下齁這個給大家看一下齁這個是呢今天我要來跟部長講因為雖然你是這個台灣GD但你不見得有在看韓國的這個論壇"},{"start":556.403,"end":570.861,"text":"那這個呢FM Korea網站呢它是韓國的一個大型的綜合網路社團就有點像我們的PDT或是Dcard那他們因為台灣祭出這樣的一個措施之後其實給予了很多對台灣的這個負面評價"},{"start":573.024,"end":575.165,"text":"那裡面呢當然我們台灣有這個網友講話有時候比較酸然後可能比較直接那韓國當然也一樣這個世界各國的公民都一樣所以呢比如我一個一個念部長你不要介意這部我寫的一完全沒有打擊感二"},{"start":590.051,"end":595.452,"text":"不是說南韓嗎英文標示的是South Korea那又怎樣改了又怎樣背景那些也改了嗎他們發表的時候不是也是中國台灣嗎完全沒被戳到干我什麼事連對中國都不敢吭一聲的傢伙們那是一樣的道理啊哈哈你想做什麼就做什麼啊就算是倒台灣那邊的傢伙說到骨子裡還是中國啦戰爭爆發的時候你們終究還是得向別人尋求協助但你們認為你們現在的態度正確嗎"},{"start":617.737,"end":638.312,"text":"我念這些的意思是說我們在做這個調整之後對於韓國的民眾來說似乎對台灣開始產生一些敵意而且這一些的內容不是說這個是什麼中國大陸的這個認知作戰或是什麼中共的人然後在那邊寫這個基本上韓國很多民眾確實就我們想嘛 妳像報告委員啊 這個是假的"},{"start":643.375,"end":654.24,"text":"韓國的名義我充分掌握你意思說這上面的人都是假的韓國的六七年輕人都很支持基於對等尊嚴尊重台灣用我們的名字你怎麼知道是誰告訴你說這是假的我都有搜尋資料後來中共大陸大力的介入開始發動網路作戰認知戰所以有一些想要去扭曲其實這件事情是相對來講其實是很清楚的我們就是說你幫我們就是變成中國台灣這個事情我們有意見嘛"},{"start":672.287,"end":693.946,"text":"所以基本上大部分的人都是支持的 包括韓國人你怎麼知道大部分的人都是支持的南韓的人也都很支持你怎麼知道他們都是支持的我有在搜尋啊你有搜尋啊 你搜尋到的結論是怎樣但是後來因為有一波大量的認知作戰進來所以你認為說洗過了啦所以你不能講說是假的因為這些人他可能是真的有這個障就是說確實在論壇上"},{"start":696.528,"end":701.752,"text":"那個部長我跟你講確實在論壇上有這樣的討論但是你可以認為說這一些討論是來自於你認為是中國大陸他們來做的任志作戰那你不能講說這個是假的因為我今天不可能說沒有出現的東西我自己做一個假的論壇然後我來這邊跟你實施假的東西我只是問你說為什麼他們會有這樣子的一個討論所以部長您的意思是你覺得"},{"start":722.105,"end":734.66,"text":"南韓的民眾其實是支持我們現在的反制作為然後甚至因此要求希望他們的政府能夠去改善他的電子入境卡的標示方式而在網路上這一些論壇上面有不同意見的"},{"start":738.825,"end":753.556,"text":"韓國所謂的韓國民眾是因為中共他們在透過認知作戰介入所以才會有的內容是怎樣我跟妳很簡單講第一時間以及我們先前掌握的資訊其實大部分人是覺得這件事情就尊重台灣的日常"},{"start":754.196,"end":778.889,"text":"但是後來確實有介入 這個境外的這個部分不是說是假的 而是說它有網路作戰在操作中的那最後就是呢 那台灣的媒體也有很多因為我跟你講 因為我比較實事求是所以我是直接去南韓的這個網站上面去看他們的討論但是呢 在台灣我們也有許多的媒體他們的報導是這樣 比如我隨便找一篇叫做"},{"start":779.329,"end":797.49,"text":"外交部被嗆爆反制韓國改稱南韓遭韓網集體狂酸自卑作祟這些就是台灣媒體的標題那你有什麼想要跟台灣媒體說的嗎因為如果你認為這個是一個中共的認知作戰那台灣的媒體也跟進報導的話那是不是也被認知作戰"},{"start":798.345,"end":802.746,"text":"有時候不小心會被他利用所以你現在是呼籲大家也相信媒體他應該有判斷的這個能力因為這個論壇裡面相關的這個瀏覽人士其實超過49萬那留言數是900多則所以當然我們台灣的媒體也會注意到那可能也會去報導或是引用"},{"start":820.151,"end":822.633,"text":"但是呢今天部長您的說法是說所以您的說法就是說你所了解的情況這些人是少數中的少數而且是受到中共他們的這個介入所以才會有這樣的一個發言應該說中共已經發動認知作戰了但是不代表說裡面的每一個留言都是來自於這樣"},{"start":843.151,"end":856.904,"text":"好那最後一個問題就是說3月31號如果韓國沒有去修改電子入境卡我們會提出比什麼改成Korea South更加強烈的一個外交的"},{"start":858.38,"end":878.28,"text":"對峙的一個措施我們期待我們的交涉對方也已經有收到也在研究我們就給對方一些時間那我要講的是說最壞的打算最好的打算當然是就我們外交部去協商的事情都能夠成功我也祝福外交部能夠成功但是我作為一個立法委員在這裡監督我還是要問那最壞的打算我們3月31號我提出的那具體的作為一定是比"},{"start":882.083,"end":890.992,"text":"現在只是單純就說你把我改名我也把你改名這樣子的一個措施更加更加的劇烈程度上面提高強度是嗎"},{"start":891.992,"end":917.448,"text":"我們目前就是一步一步來可是你剛剛都講到一半只是你話都已經講一半大家都聽到了那我們現在只是改的是他那個所謂的僑民拘留證是完全是我們自己的我們還沒有去更改這一個所謂的入境的登錄的了解了那我大概了解你的意思了那也希望這個交涉能夠一切順利好不好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}