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處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算提出書面報告後死的動資等29案決定以上29案報告完均均同意動資並提報院會"},{"start":1824.223,"end":1835.108,"text":"國防部部長顧立雄軍備局局長林文祥及海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮報告委員盧美林等12人質詢軍有國防部部長顧立雄軍醫局醫務管理處處長王玉琦戰略規劃師師長黃文綺空軍司令部參謀長李慶然"},{"start":1842.771,"end":1856.221,"text":"知通電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥及國家中山科學研究院院長李士強等即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及巡大結束二委員黃仁許巧欣所提書面質詢列入記錄勘定公報"},{"start":1857.822,"end":1878.361,"text":"三委員書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請國防部與二周內書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從其所定討論事項處理運會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議公布主管預算凍結案依海軍司令部第一幕向下行政事務之一般事務費預算凍結50%中案報告案"},{"start":1881.123,"end":1897.37,"text":"決議本案處理完均,同意動之並提報院會二、國防部主管預算凍結案等40案決議以上40案處理完均,均同意動之並提報院會宣讀完畢請問在場的委員對於上次的會議議事錄有無疑落、錯誤或需要更正之處沒有好,議事錄確定那現在介紹在場的委員陳俊宇委員"},{"start":1912.239,"end":1937.851,"text":"沈博洋召委陳永康委員那現在是介紹我們列席的官員我們部長林嘉榮亞東太平洋司司長藍夏禮西亞籍非洲司副司長陳永博歐洲司司長黃金耀"},{"start":1939.724,"end":1956.431,"text":"拉迪美洲及加勒比海斯市長鄭麗晨北美市市長王良義條約法律副市長許博義國際組織市市長孫簡元國際合作及經濟事務市市長連一平國際傳播司副市長蕭美惠"},{"start":1969.164,"end":1987.281,"text":"研究設計會副主任林世新李斌處處長我們陳欣欣秘書處處長陳景林人事處處長呂士儀政府處處長余世明主計處處長林佩華"},{"start":1995.077,"end":2001.96,"text":"資訊及電務處處長林啟文公眾外交協調會副執行長陳怡君非政府組織國際事務會執行長江振偉台灣日本關係協會副秘書長林玉慧台灣美國事務委員會秘書長邱高偉"},{"start":2026.127,"end":2055.103,"text":"外交及国际事务学院副院长陈文颖领事事务局主任秘书苏立威参访法人国际合作发展基金会秘书长黄毓林参访法人台湾民主基金会执行长廖达琪参访法人太平洋经济合作理事会秘书长许俊斌"},{"start":2056.917,"end":2068.96,"text":"行政院主席總署專門委員邱碧珠以上請醫事人員先讀討論事項"},{"start":2070.994,"end":2087.653,"text":"討論事項處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議外交部主管預算凍結案等三案一第五目向下對國際之關懷救助及重建中業務費預算凍結三百萬元案二第一項決議括弧一預算凍結案括弧密三第一項決議括弧二預算凍結案預算凍結案括弧密宣讀完畢"},{"start":2094.312,"end":2101.356,"text":"本日會議處理外交部主管預算解凍案請外交部長林佳榮上台報告主席各位委員各位先進各位女士各位先生大家早"},{"start":2114.142,"end":2139.527,"text":"承蒙大院外交及國防委員會安排本部主管114年度預算凍結項目進行解凍今日列入議程既有討論四項三項本部已分別原題書面報告含送大院在案此部分已納入大院議案關係文書 敬請各位委員參閱鑑於政府資源有限本部"},{"start":2141.627,"end":2165.363,"text":"將秉持尊潔的原則除了在核實編列預算之外也會切實落實執行各項重要的外交事務敬請各位委員一本長期以來對外交工作的關注和支持對本部敘以督促與鼓勵並同意解除上述各項預算凍結案以利本部業務之順利推動謝謝"},{"start":2171.503,"end":2190.488,"text":"現在開始詢答本會委員5加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點30分發言登記截止如有臨時提案請以10點半提出11點左右處理那現在開始請我們陳俊宜委員上台諮詢"},{"start":2203.203,"end":2205.187,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請林部長部長早"},{"start":2213.202,"end":2239.083,"text":"首先就我們這個國人這個旅外的權益的還有安全的部分我想來跟部長您做一個討論那美國總統川普政府持續以這個打擊猶太主義為由那禁止哈佛大學招收國際生並且對學生的這個簽證進行限制我國目前有50多位學生可能會受到影響"},{"start":2239.904,"end":2264.062,"text":"那就這個目前的情況來看這個國土安全部給哈佛大學的這個30天寬限期即將到結束那除了川普和這個哈佛之間的一個衝突問題以外也包括哥倫比亞大學及部長您的母校耶魯大學等這種長春藤盟校也都被點名了"},{"start":2264.562,"end":2271.28,"text":"那先前國際國務院也曾公布學生簽證這個審查和面試的新措施規則"},{"start":2273.902,"end":2299.08,"text":"部分恐怕會一再的變化那面對諸多不確定的因素讓已經在美國的這個求學的學生或是正在申請當中的相關的實習機會或是申請當中的這些我們簽證的學生都沒辦法安心那我想請教部長就是相關事務是由我們外交部跟教育部一起負責"},{"start":2299.881,"end":2312.636,"text":"那接下來美國對於這個國際學生的政策可能會如何的發展是否能夠主動來提供我們留學生必要的相關協助報告委員在"},{"start":2315.098,"end":2337.056,"text":"第一時間我們就透過跟美國在台協會包括跟鼓勵委員處長來提洽關注我們留學生的權益那也透過美處跟國務院來進行反應那也在委員這個質詢的最近的發展"},{"start":2342.02,"end":2371.076,"text":"AIT已經有復告我們就是近日內因為恢復學生簽證的這個面試的這個受理他的申請那也會盡快提供民眾申請的細節就是這邊我想AIT應該在等在華埔整體的那個Guidelines這個指導的原則 那就會對外來公布"},{"start":2372.489,"end":2397.505,"text":"那這個美方在去年公布的這個報告當中,那台灣已經成為美國第五大的國際生的來源那赴美留學的人數已經成長到兩萬三千人左右所以暫停學生簽證的這種面試問題,對於要前往美國深造的同學來講影響甚大"},{"start":2398.365,"end":2422.493,"text":"我們看到部長剛剛也說對於這個問題已經多次和AIT交涉那除了先前已經預約的這個學生簽證的面試照常進行以外目前還沒有安排面談的這些學生還蠻多的似乎無法再預約面試那即將在九月開學的學生來"},{"start":2424.254,"end":2440.93,"text":"來講對他們是一個非常大的隱憂雖然我們外交部已經持續和美方在協調但是有關簽證及面試的預約相關的政策我們是否有所轉變的契機能否爭取在近期恢復開放預約"},{"start":2442.734,"end":2471.676,"text":"是我們平均一年申請到美國的留學生大概有一萬出頭其實已經前面一半左右已經申請而且排的面試的時間大概都陸續進行中現在是本來暫停的是新申請也是可以受理但是面試的時間他沒有辦法安排不過我們最近得到的就是AIT跟我們的"},{"start":2473.297,"end":2496.13,"text":"回復是很快的時間內就會來恢復有關於學生辦理簽證面試的這個受理至於說細節因為他要上網去公告這個大概目前正在處理中所以暑假期間當然有些暑期班可能會受影響至於說九月開學我想現在時間應該是還相對足夠"},{"start":2498.831,"end":2526.467,"text":"我們先前也有一些例子包括新北市議員 林津潔議員她有反映她的女兒有申請到美國留學的許可目前都順利辦理完 就是說面試但她的同學 林津潔議員告訴我就是她的女兒的同學就遇到了一些困難也沒辦法安排進去不過按照最新我們得到的訊息應該可以在很快的時間安排面試"},{"start":2527.768,"end":2551.563,"text":"就是因為在社群上,社群上也有許多可能是要赴美的這些學生,他在社群上有留言有看到所以我們同理心,假設我們家裡有一個孩子是去申請到好的學校,我們一定是心急如焚所以我在第一時間就跟同仁講,每一個個案我們都要去了解,然後關心跟協助他"},{"start":2552.363,"end":2566.195,"text":"目前大概就是剩下大概一半還沒有安排面試的我想應該很快的時間他們就可以排上時間那就會比較放心好 謝謝部長這部分再請我們同仁也繼續為我們學生爭取權益"},{"start":2568.317,"end":2587.341,"text":"那針對近期以色列和伊朗的一個衝突這個問題區域緊張的情勢已經持續在升高當中並且隨時都有可能會產生相關的變化然後我們也看到我們外館已經幫這個目前滯留在以色列280人中的16位已經"},{"start":2591.722,"end":2612.696,"text":"讓他們辦理搭乘專機專車離境那在伊朗的部分我們有九位可是好像沒有聽到說我們對伊朗的部分有什麼相關的一個策巧或是幫他們轉境的動作這部分我們部長對伊朗的部分因為"},{"start":2614.858,"end":2643.812,"text":"伊朗是有我們駐杜拜的代表處轄管我們本身並沒有在伊朗的代表處不過就是我們在那邊也有包括駐德惠蘭台貿中心那另外我們也跟其他國家的大使館密切聯繫所以您提到的所謂九位目前已經有三位已經離境那是透過陸路那就是往土庫曼或周邊國家那還有六位國人在伊朗"},{"start":2644.252,"end":2671.57,"text":"那我們都有跟他們直接聯繫所以任何的狀況我們都會在第一時間來關心跟協助那目前都是安全的我想請教部長就是針對我們現在在以色列還有伊朗的所有的國人我們是不是都有確實掌握他們目前是否需要協助的這個訊息能夠在第一時間假設他們提出需求我們可以幫他們"},{"start":2672.35,"end":2688.793,"text":"有,因為我們旅外國人動態登錄有一個資料我們現在在住以色列,我們代表處還是辦公的根據以色列政府的安全指引,有一些是居家辦公但是必要的時候還是要到代表處"},{"start":2689.614,"end":2716.051,"text":"不過我們也看到說我們的代表處附近也因為轟炸有造成一些輕微的毀損甚至我們代表的官邸也是在算是他們就是有受損地區那我們都密切的關注因為以色列他是都有很多的這些疏散跟安全的措施我們就按照那個指引來辦理"},{"start":2717.552,"end":2728.782,"text":"那針對以色列的我們的代表處有沒有可能在短期間之內會關閉或是撤離?我們沒有撤管,我們現在還是辦公中,當然現在通訊很發達所以用一個比較彈性的方法來辦公,那也隨著這個"},{"start":2739.631,"end":2761.999,"text":"中東這個衝突情勢的變化我們會做好因應那部長我想請教就是以色列的部分我們目前還是設定在第三級的這個橘色警戒那伊朗已經是紅色警戒那未來這個以色列的部分有沒有可能提高這個警戒的級數我們是這樣我們都按照國際的標準"},{"start":2764.542,"end":2778.28,"text":"其實以色列在北境跟加薩還是維持紅色的景勢那在其他的地方是列為橙色不過就隨著我們的這個目前的這個"},{"start":2780.102,"end":2802.507,"text":"安全的情形在做調整那相關來講跟我們維持一樣警示程度的國家也包括韓國日本法國義大利等那當然有些國家有發布全境紅色就是最高警戒不過在橙色跟紅色之間我們基本上我們的這個規範的內容已經是很接近"},{"start":2803.867,"end":2823.998,"text":"那這部分還是請我們外交部持續關注啦,能夠提供給這個旅外的我們這些國人一個安全的保護以外也可以提供給我們國內民眾要這個赴以色列或是伊朗或是其他中東國家旅遊的時候一個比較新的一個資訊是因為現在的空域"},{"start":2824.958,"end":2841.964,"text":"都已經管制了很多是透過陸路所以我們是不鼓勵大家這個時候到有戰爭這個衝突跟風險高的地方但是已經在那邊的國人因為有各種因素有些人是已經在那邊有"},{"start":2844.125,"end":2873.114,"text":"就結婚,家庭在那裡,有一些是讀書或旅遊或是經商那情形都不太好,我們都是聯繫也尊重但是也都會告訴他們我們政府相關的措施也會提醒他做好這些安全維護的這個工作非必要先暫時不要前往對好,謝謝部長好,謝謝委員謝謝陳俊宜委員的諮詢接下來有王定宜委員上台諮詢"},{"start":2884.175,"end":2908.241,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長好 委員好今天大家都關切中東的局勢那以色列伊朗的戰事升溫我想這個無庸置疑啦川普最新的X Twitter推文上面只有寫兩個字叫做那個投降就是無條件投降 他只寫兩個字所以看起來美國"},{"start":2909.761,"end":2934.998,"text":"我們看他從不管是英國或義大利或其他單位他們的加油機、轟炸機大概都往中東集中所以除了以色列跟伊朗以外大概美國在這件事情上不會置身事外特別牽涉到核子武器這個是大概媒體都有報導的客觀局勢那我現在詢問的是我們外交部第一個我們外交部掌握國際局勢當必要這待會我請教你"},{"start":2935.618,"end":2955.284,"text":"但是國人在外面的安全很重要因為我們旅遊警示是你們在公布的目前伊朗是紅色嘛是是屬於第四級所以第四級是不僅不建議前往在那邊的還請他離開對不對對那我們對伊朗我看伊拉克啦伊朗"},{"start":2956.144,"end":2969.455,"text":"然後這個以色列黎巴嫩這個區域靠近黎巴嫩這個區域我們都列為紅色第四級所以不建議前往還要求他儘速離開那我們在這個區域有沒有撤僑的計畫"},{"start":2971.711,"end":2990.326,"text":"在以色列我們目前都還沒有到撤僑沒有那如果國人要離開外交部住處可以提供協助嗎協助包括好幾波透過我們路路啦交通載具然後離境的時候比如到約旦也有人去接所以你現在講的是已經有執行的"},{"start":2990.626,"end":3019.967,"text":"有三坡 二十位從以色列離開那就有在執行嘛只是說你沒有主動啦現在就是說如果要離開的外交部目前透過陸路到約旦那已經走了三坡 大約二十名是然後需要徹底的人是向我們住處聯繫嗎我們好像有個聯繫的網絡嘛對 我們就是里外國人登錄表那個都是隨時在滾動式修正有沒有在我們掌握的國人以外的人目前在那裡的"},{"start":3022.145,"end":3048.896,"text":"因為他們之間互相也都聯繫跟我們代表處常連都有聯繫因為其實以色列或是加薩爾佐蘭或是這邊的戰事已經一段時間了一段時間了但伊朗這邊情況是比較形態因為人也比較少就九名那目前三名已經離境所以我先跟你確認一下我們現在以色列全境是列為第四級紅色還是有一部分維持在橙色北境跟加薩爾佐蘭是第四級"},{"start":3049.856,"end":3074.106,"text":"但其他的部分就是第三級就靠近黎巴嫩跟靠近加薩這邊列為紅色第四級對其餘的維持在第三級第三級就是避免前往沒有勸離的一個呼籲所以現在如果我是位處在橙色的部分我希望撤離外交部也協助嗎也協助也要協助而且密切聯繫中"},{"start":3075.126,"end":3095.896,"text":"那你現在掌握我們在那邊的目前真的還在那裡的台灣人有多少包含學生啊 經商啊 駕駛的270位所以我這邊 我看到就有的數據是280位因為已經有離境一些那剛剛同仁給我嘛 因為滾動式在修正目前是274位 還在目前274 對那離開有20位嘛 你剛才講20個嘛所以原來應該294在那個地方對啊 就數學嘛"},{"start":3106.002,"end":3118.559,"text":"來274你剛才一開始我問你我們到底有多少台灣人在那裏委員是這樣子因為就像剛剛我們剛剛講的他是滾動式的他在整個滾速學不會變嗎不是 因為有些國人他是自己看到我們外館發布訊息他主動來聯繫的"},{"start":3119.781,"end":3137.054,"text":"沒有 主動聯繫 因為有些是短期上的國人 我們的確可能我現在說 我們外交部要展現的是 我國人在以色列我有掌握住他們 是294位或290位目前是19位 18位或20位 這不能大約啦每一條 每一條台灣人都是珍貴的 所以我的意思說"},{"start":3137.694,"end":3155.749,"text":"每一個每一條生命都是非常寶貴的所以你剛才說有安排20位經過陸路到第三軌就是約旦而且有人接這是很好非常好安全出去了嘛所以那邊有多少人加上現在那裡還有多少人那就equal to那就等於我原來有多少人嘛沒有例外嘛例外就是我不知道的嘛"},{"start":3156.289,"end":3173.145,"text":"沒錯 有些就是主動通報所以人數上會有一些變動的原因在這個地方所以我們現在台灣人 現在是274位現在現存274 是已經離開幾位 20位所以原來大概就是294 如果這樣加的話就294這沒有錯啦那伊朗那一邊呢 在伊朗的台灣人"},{"start":3173.939,"end":3194.196,"text":"伊朗那邊原先我們掌握的是九位那現在有三位是剛剛部長提到他們已經從陸路到土耳其去了那最近呢還會有三位可能會往北邊東北邊往土耳其那他們的離開是我們有提供協助還是我們只是掌握訊息我們現在的話就是我們那個冒險德黑蘭一個辦公室他們有跟他們冒險主任跟他們都有當事人都有訊息"},{"start":3195.457,"end":3221.828,"text":"當時烏克蘭戰爭爆發的時候因為一開始烏克蘭當時也不讓我們有住處在所以是經由茂協一個專員在那地方提供相關的協助聯繫所以現在聽起來就是有三位在伊朗的台籍人士已經走陸路往土耳其方向走你說未來接下來還有三位要離開那我們在那邊提供行政協助的是茂協的駐地人員那我們現在茂協有幾個人在那裡"},{"start":3222.967,"end":3238.173,"text":"茂賢目前有一位主任另外的話是當地僱員那位主任本身有沒有要撤離?他家人有沒有在那?主任他目前在德黑蘭不過他會依據情況會做一些相關的調整那個以色列撒空飄單是要在德黑蘭能趕快離開欸"},{"start":3240.164,"end":3260.719,"text":"我們那位主任安全也很重要甚至於他應該聯繫剩餘的六位應該要往郊區避就是說因為這兩天看起來以色列空軍會先撒單子叫你離開這個區域那接下來真的就是會來炸嘛所以你們現在有沒有辦法跟這一位我們茂協的主任聯繫上"},{"start":3262.27,"end":3277.15,"text":"包委我們每天都有聯繫而且主任他自己對於其實他還沒有離開的一些撤離路線他都已經規劃好了包含可能往北往離海的方向或是往西往拓斜方向現在都規劃好那我們會依據實際的情況來去做任何即時的因應對我是覺得"},{"start":3278.391,"end":3293.819,"text":"他在當地最清楚我們在外面知道國際局勢他在當地知道當地的狀況有時候原來通的路會shut down 就關掉了所以安全第一啦我們的國內人能夠撤離 盡速撤離那這件事看起來我們外交部掌握得還不錯那我覺得要請問的是接下來就是"},{"start":3295.8,"end":3322.461,"text":"這一波當然在經濟上我們就會關心到油價啦黃金啦國際相關的經濟的議題這會影響地緣政治也會影響像美國有一個航母群已經開往那個位置所以它也會連動到印太地區的安全部署也會影響到這個烏克蘭那邊的戰爭像烏克蘭最近沒有拿到防空飛彈因為那些彈就移到了以色列那邊所以這個是其他的邊界影響我現在要提的是"},{"start":3323.422,"end":3350.337,"text":"就從去年發生的哈馬斯屠殺以色列人這個事件開始去年10月那在加薩地道的作戰以及伊朗它的核設施以及用飛彈對以色列發動了幾波的攻擊以及在以色列周邊伊朗的附庸不管是葉門的或者是黎巴嫩的這些相關的攻擊"},{"start":3352.346,"end":3360.724,"text":"據相關資訊顯示以色列人發現這裡面不管是在隧道裡面的武器大概九成以上都來自於中國"},{"start":3363.446,"end":3387.865,"text":"伊朗核設施的能量來自中國上一次一艘來自中國的運輸機停在伊朗快被以色列炸掉那個飛機來自中國昨天三架從中國飛往伊朗的7370就是波音的飛機後來訊號關掉他們也相信這個是去運補伊朗那邊"},{"start":3388.926,"end":3404.474,"text":"所以以色列過去這長期以來是幫助中國武器現代化很重要的國家其實以色列跟中國很好那台灣跟以色列從我們大概第一代雄風飛彈以後直接的接觸就減少了"},{"start":3405.094,"end":3432.015,"text":"我要問的問題是 部長 這個讓你親自回答從去年到現在 我們外交部跟以色列之間我們台語的關係 是不是有因為這些局勢的改變台語關係有升溫 我講的升溫是保護和呈現在交流的頻率交流的品質 交流的層級以及不管在安全議題 軍工業合作議題或者經貿議題上 你的評估怎麼樣"},{"start":3435.767,"end":3458.576,"text":"確實如您講以前以色列跟中國的關係是包括在軍事還有武器上是有密切的關係但是自從這個中東的戰事發生之後我想他們已經很清楚中國在背後支持他們的敵對的治理"},{"start":3460.777,"end":3471.688,"text":"那跟台灣的部分,我想不只是說理念相近,現在地緣政治上也是厲害,關係是很密切所以在交流的程式跟範圍都有所提升"},{"start":3479.881,"end":3507.777,"text":"因為光我們在立法院連續接到的以色列訪問團頻率跟裡面的成員裡面成員擔任過部長級的擔任過摩薩德副手等級的都公開來所以我是覺得這個質跟量也許是一個彼此關係提升的契機那我最後30秒問一個簡單的問題這個因為不完全你們負責哥斯大黎加的情報安全局有派五個情報官來台灣授勧嗎"},{"start":3508.925,"end":3534.157,"text":"有還是沒有因為這不是我們外交部主管業務我就不予回答了不是透過我們海外住處去聯繫安排這個嗎我們對於一些國際交流有一定的都有掌握不過因為涉及到不是我們主管業務這個消息來源是來自於當地的媒體報導那哥斯拉伊加跟我們斷交相當時間了他2007年斷交到現在了"},{"start":3537.719,"end":3554.415,"text":"那哥斯大黎加近來因為資安問題跟中國產生了一些摩擦這是背景那當地媒體報導說有五個他們情報局的人經由第三國來台灣參加情報安全培訓這個是坦白講"},{"start":3556.38,"end":3582.621,"text":"有的是屬於國安事務但是這個是一個朋友之間如果情報人員都去你那邊受訓的話這代表關係的提升所以這也是外交啦你不肯回答我不勉強啦就是說有關這個哥斯大利加情報安全局他們自己報導說有五個官員來台灣這件事情後續會不會引起中國的抗議中國跟哥斯大利加的變化以及台灣跟哥斯大利加的變化"},{"start":3583.502,"end":3601.233,"text":"我是建議外交部其實有一塊是相當於大的一塊其實是台美跟中南美洲的關係,這個要掌握住啦是,所以川普政府更重視西半球,特別是拉美那這個部分當然我們在外交空間上是有增加啦"},{"start":3601.693,"end":3612.963,"text":"那在交流方面,我們不以邦交國為對象,不論情報的交流,各種經貿交流,乃至於有一些政務的交流,都是有在推動當中"},{"start":3617.745,"end":3639.28,"text":"我們當然非邦交國主要理念相近我們現在總和外交其實都是積極在跟他們多接觸好建立彼此互信合作機制這個有很多方面的層次啦那這一題我們會持續追蹤那我們先外交部繼續加油好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝王定宇委員上台的質詢接下來有羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":3648.566,"end":3668.782,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長部長好部長好今天我們多位委員駿魚委員也好或是地域委員都在關心在以色列還有伊朗地區我們的國人的安全尤其是在伊朗像之前的話我們所知道的是有"},{"start":3669.162,"end":3690.118,"text":"九位的國人還在伊朗剛剛很欣慰就是說陸陸續續已經有撤出了尤其我看到歐洲各國呢已經開始陸續的撤僑那再來川普也呼籲國人全面撤離這個德黑蘭所以我們也很擔心這九位國人的安全那當然還有三位現在在伊朗我們也希望就是說我們外交部這邊外管這邊全力的來協助讓他們安全的離開這個德黑蘭離開這個伊朗"},{"start":3695.902,"end":3715.035,"text":"那再來還有就是畢竟在以色列還有兩百多位的我國的僑胞在那裡那我們所看到就是說像川普像之前他第一時間的時候他有提到說以色列的這個軍事行動是跟美國沒有關係他並沒有介入可是我發現說這兩天他的這個言論稍微有做了一個轉變他說可能他們還是可能會參戰那如果美國真的參戰的話對整個中東局勢的這個目前的處境會不會會更加有更高的風險可能會更加的嚴峻"},{"start":3726.282,"end":3743.877,"text":"那可能有哪些地方會受到影響那各種的可能的情境我們都有做分析啦跟也做好因應那因為這個美國是不是參戰或者是伊朗的反應這個當然會升高"},{"start":3746.039,"end":3767.955,"text":"從區域的甚至變成全球性的衝突那這個對於不只是地緣政治對於全球的經濟也會有很大的影響所以我們政府包括總統還有行政院長都有召開包括國安高層會議今天行政院會這個卓院長也有所指示就是有關於因應這個戰局變化"},{"start":3770.652,"end":3794.442,"text":"對中東這個的部分其實我們還是會有一些評估跟推斷因為畢竟說我們在中東地區的這個僑胞其實也不少所以對他們的安全我想都是國人最重視的那再來還有一點昨天晚上呢在新聞報導新聞這個播出的時候突然間呢看到一個跑馬燈說這個伊朗可能會讓全世界呢有一個surprise is a surprise是怎麼樣的一個狀況部長"},{"start":3795.903,"end":3817.332,"text":"因為那個短片我有看到 因為涉及到核彈 核武器到底真實的情形如何後續的發展這個因為我想在會不會升高 甚至變成一個核武的戰爭這個確實是全世界都在關注"},{"start":3818.454,"end":3846.436,"text":"我們當然本身在這個地區除了我們我們是沒有正式邦交國家但也有代表處另外我們的能源尤其油氣經過這個中東地區也會影響我們的經濟這個都會連動所以不只是總統召開高層的會議行政院院長也責成各部會做好這個戰爭升高的時候我們的應變計畫"},{"start":3848.303,"end":3863.56,"text":"所以這部分的話我想外交部還是要隨時這個繃緊神經來注意這個整個中東局勢的這個發展那當然伊朗的態度當然是很重要當然美國希望就是說回到這個核談判的這個"},{"start":3867.004,"end":3879.261,"text":"這個重新來做一個談判那我不曉得因為每天的這個街道的這個新聞其實都會讓全球人民成全的這個人民會覺得說非常的這個驚恐因為畢竟這是有關於這個核彈"},{"start":3881.964,"end":3900.079,"text":"這個核戰爭會不會再會不會發生這件事情那尤其伊朗昨天做出了這個聲明甚至是讓大家半夜其實都睡得不是很好甚至有人說他可能半夜起來看看說到底伊朗想要做什麼樣的動作所以變成說外交部隨時都要保持這個警戒那再來還有一點就是也是這個國人跟"},{"start":3902.941,"end":3931.453,"text":"尤其是一些學生跟家長呢非常重視的就是說對於美國這個留學簽證的這個面談那當然剛剛也有委員在關心這一題那我想請教就是說到目前為止我們有多少這個學生呢會因為川普的這個政策呢受到這個很大的影響尤其川普對於這個哈佛大學呢是採取一連串的這個限制的這個措施所以我想了解的就是說針對哈佛大學這個部分呢多少學生會因為川普政策呢受到影響"},{"start":3933.33,"end":3959.425,"text":"哈佛現在我們台灣的留學生有50多位今年申請到的也大概是這個數字我請我們北美司也許進一步提供比較更新的資料因為它當時有一個月的寬限期現在也快到了那有什麼樣的變化因為這事關國人的尤其留學生的權益我請我們北美司長來跟委員再報告詳細一點因為我大概知道的是一個比較整體的情形但是個別的細節"},{"start":3962.612,"end":3988.448,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們目前在哈佛的學生陳如剛剛部長提到的有50多位那至於說今年的新生的話我們的了解是應該是有53位新生那另外也還有就是幾位是研究的人員所以加起來大概是70位上下那現在今天早上接到的資訊就是關於這個簽證的面談受理的部分"},{"start":3989.569,"end":3990.931,"text":"就是AIT這邊應該蠻快的"},{"start":3992.898,"end":4015.913,"text":"就可以針對面談的部分繼續接受這個受理那應該他們會在這一兩天之內就能夠把新的這個process提供出來這是針對簽證受理的部分那至於說哈佛這邊的情況的話我們的駐波士頓辦事處也持續的在跟校方保持聯繫那目前他們稍微卡到的地方是在針對這個學生申請簽證的這一塊"},{"start":4020.055,"end":4034.433,"text":"所謂牽扯到學生簽證這塊可以說清楚一點嗎因為所以很多家長其實是人心惶惶的辦公室也會接到一些詢問所以這個部分的話可以說明得清楚一點嗎針對學生簽證的部分就是"},{"start":4035.434,"end":4047.687,"text":"國務院這邊的措施其實是一個全球性的措施今天早上我們也有看到美國有一些媒體已經報導了就是國務院會再重新的受理簽證面談的申請這個我們也已經跟AIT這邊有稍微詢問過"},{"start":4053.672,"end":4071.137,"text":"他們現在呢就是只要收到新的這個announcement之後他們就會在他們的網站上面做說明所以我們的國人要申請這個去美國的學生簽證的部分應該是在近期之內就可以再恢復申請和受理所以這邊說其實之後"},{"start":4074.578,"end":4092.635,"text":"因為學生還是想說那以後我申請有沒有這個機會會不會被不受理或者是被拒絕所以市長您剛才講的意思就是說其實這個措施這個限制措施到後面其實不會受到影響是不是對於學生的這個申請"},{"start":4095.49,"end":4109.001,"text":"針對這個簽證面談這部分是不會受影響的嗎我們的理解是AIT應該很快就會再再度的恢復接受簽證的申請的受理那他們也會就是在完全恢復這個簽證申請的受理之後"},{"start":4111.323,"end":4125.318,"text":"他們也會加快腳步來處理我們學生的申請那但是具體的細節的話就是還是需要由AIT這邊來做正式的宣布那我們的理解是AIT應該蠻快的在一兩天之內"},{"start":4128.221,"end":4150.188,"text":"就会有具体的新的声明出来所以也就是说学生台湾的孩子放心您就去申请AIT这边会全力的协助我们会这个政策其实会恢复到之前的那个面谈的这个作业会恢复所以这个不用担心是这样子的意思吗简单说我们经常的理解是"},{"start":4151.648,"end":4176.634,"text":"我稍微補充說明就是本來申請已經受理的都在辦理中那只是面試的時間後來就停了那現在連面試的時間原來已經申請已經排的面試時間的也會進行了都有進行完相當多那現在就是申請完之後那以之後要申請的現在還沒有排面試的那一部分這幾天AIT表示他們會"},{"start":4177.934,"end":4191.164,"text":"就是公布如何排面試一旦面試時間定了大家都比較安心因為買機票啦等等那比較受影響是暑期班因為現在六月下旬了嘛所以這個至於說正式的學期啊因為時間還有我想那個衝擊會相對比較小"},{"start":4194.306,"end":4209.239,"text":"所以因為這個時間的關係當然孩子他當然很擔心希望說有一個明確的答案所以我在想說如果說外交部能夠有一個明確的一個回覆的話可以公開的告訴大家是我們是每個人我們都是"},{"start":4209.779,"end":4226.553,"text":"根據他個人 我們也都會去關注他持續申請的狀況也跟AIT 衛星本身跟古力園處長已經不斷地都有在提洽這個請委員方 我們會全力來維護跟爭取國人 尤其是留學生的權益OK 好 以上謝謝好 我們下面請黃仁委員質詢"},{"start":4242.526,"end":4270.081,"text":"有請部長主席委員好部長請教一下部長目前的中東的一個地區的一個戰事那請問一下這個評估中東地區的戰事的狀況我國人擔心的可能被戰事波及那但據知道巴林還正在有我們排球隊在當地的比賽亞洲盃請問部長有什麼樣的掌握狀況"},{"start":4273.324,"end":4277.851,"text":"我們80是有涉處我請我們亞非斯也來說明一下對他們現在聯繫的狀況"},{"start":4280.317,"end":4306.78,"text":"市市報委員目前在波斯灣地區這幾個海灣國家巴林它目前並沒有相關的一些安全上的問題那我們在這一次的這個以色列跟伊朗衝突這個部分我們在這幾個國家包含巴林我們做了這個旅遊警示的一些相關的文字的更新那目前來講的話那邊的一些相關活動都還持續那住宿也都有掌握對我們我國的排球隊也都還在那個地方隨時掌握好不好是那"},{"start":4307.981,"end":4330.531,"text":"另外就是請教一下部長這一次的出訪關島我等帶隊到這個關島來做一個採訪這個訪問那本期六月初在出訪關島的時候那謝謝我們外交部的細心的安排的跟協助也恭喜文這次出訪非常的成功引起很大的分享"},{"start":4332.132,"end":4344.802,"text":"這個總和外交跟原民外交是非常重要的在這一次出訪就是擴展了我們原民外交的成效但行程中的收穫已經遠遠超過了原民外交的範疇"},{"start":4346.604,"end":4362.445,"text":"特别是在台美印太安全合作台湾在第一岛链战略枢纽的能见度与外交的空间南太平洋的布局以反制中共大陆在南太扩展的背景下"},{"start":4363.065,"end":4376.99,"text":"那讓本席堅信我國應該更有明確的戰略定位及後續的一個行動那本席在這一次最重要的任務就是推動南島共同體以原民外交"},{"start":4378.59,"end":4391.961,"text":"文化的外交這一次雖然只到到了關島但是在本席可以作為推動到南島語系的範例包含如何以語言文化為紐帶"},{"start":4394.022,"end":4408.816,"text":"推動南島語族多層面的交流所以因此本市在關島這個跟總督會面的時候也提出了成立南島文化語言永續的合作平台的想法那請問一下部長對於"},{"start":4410.137,"end":4433.043,"text":"建立原民外交交流及浮生的文化合作協議例如關導薩摩羅族以可以台灣原民團體簽署的一個相關的MOU合作的一個備忘錄那外交部有什麼樣的想法要如何促成如何推展南歐以西的一個國家"},{"start":4433.783,"end":4449.536,"text":"是 先恭喜委員也感謝為我們外交透過國會外交去拓展我們的總和外交特別是援助於外交方面我們跟關島自從去年總統過境關島總督古雷諾總督也來台灣訪問在近期內已經訪問完了"},{"start":4460.605,"end":4480.415,"text":"因此這個包括原住民外交這個差不多族跟我們原住民族是有這個遠親的關係所以在原住民文化的合作上包括一些研究包括未來怎麼樣去促進更多的交流將會是一個重點"},{"start":4481.195,"end":4484.119,"text":"那因為它是第二島鏈是非常重要的樞紐位置隨著印太的這個地區大家越來越重視那應該是台灣跟關島包括"},{"start":4495.1,"end":4518.931,"text":"文化、經貿還有各方面的交流應該可以預期是會更為蓬勃發展我想總統都已經有表達關島跟我們這邊都是一家親而且語言上的一個語文的交流就非常的一個緊密所以這一次這個和關島總督與還有議長的一個交流的時候"},{"start":4520.192,"end":4538.767,"text":"他們特別的關心農業、觀光跟醫療的互動那尤其是總督提到台灣是關島最重要的醫療的轉介夥伴那但目前直航班機非常有限關島居民對於台灣的醫療品質非常的信賴"},{"start":4539.568,"end":4548.552,"text":"那希望雙方能夠有更頻繁更常態化的直飛的航班那請問部長在有什麼樣的能夠在這個比較積極的一個作為"},{"start":4553.482,"end":4568.672,"text":"是跟委員報告其實我們在今年的就是過年這個春節的前後我們也有華航的包機那後來現在當然是聯合航空現在在就是飛這條航線那國內的航空公司我們也在協調希望能夠有定期的航班飛關島跟台灣因為這裡面除了觀光旅遊以外包括剛剛講的醫療的轉診"},{"start":4582.521,"end":4601.447,"text":"其實台灣對他們來講醫療是價格更便宜但是水準很高他們很期待很期待而且希望能夠就是說也能夠在農業上跟水產業上這一次古雷諾總督來台灣特別去考察了包括一些垂直的農場還有養殖業還有這些那對他們來講他們這些很多都是進口"},{"start":4608.21,"end":4635.279,"text":"這個糧食如果透過台灣去投資也可以出口那要到美國算是免稅所以這個確實是有商機所以因為直航所以現在國內的這些企業也有一個想法希望能夠在那個地方不管是醫療科技而且甚至未來是不是也要提出請我們關島能夠釋出一塊土地作為"},{"start":4636.179,"end":4652.152,"text":"科具延期的一個地方來提供給我們國人能夠有這個投資的一個空間在那個地方好不好我們有進行 請台灣世西進行了一個規劃那現在的在港口附近的那個工業區設施比較完整另外就在機場旁邊還有一塊可以新開發那我們現在也在就是針對各個產業適合去投資美國的其實關島是離台灣最近的美國"},{"start":4663.261,"end":4680.602,"text":"的這個領土所以確實是關島跟我們可以除了互設代表處我們可以有更多的這個未來可以交流合作的項目我想這個是總統也很重視那我想說再一次的可能我會再出訪"},{"start":4682.063,"end":4705.573,"text":"到關島還有一些企業可能隨同去了解一下關島的一個投資地點是不是適宜那另外就是再次強調我國的外交必須要有新的思維尤其是中共不斷的壓縮我們這個壓縮國的外交空間美中博弈局局勢又顯得詭異複雜"},{"start":4707.074,"end":4729.206,"text":"所以以原民外交低調突圍絕對是未來我國外交的重點低調突圍就是我們現在原民外交最重要的一環那另外就是我們針對烏克蘭的原住烏克蘭的預算那今天關於我國原住烏克蘭的重建"},{"start":4732.087,"end":4756.072,"text":"經過外交部說明應該已經取得了提案委員的理解待會應該可以解凍但如果外交來持續編列援助烏克蘭的一個計畫還有預算本席提醒外交部這一次的預算解凍的其中一個主要的原因是因為存在在以下的一個明顯的一個缺失的爭議第一"},{"start":4757.853,"end":4772.015,"text":"資金用途不夠透明缺乏明確專案的明細第二部分款項轉交國際組織執行成效無法追蹤第三位於烏克蘭官方或當地華僑"},{"start":4773.116,"end":4795.038,"text":"社群建立固定的协调机制第四原预算编列过于笼统所以缺少专案的分裂第五预算执行进度与成效报告不符实所以陆外交部乃要持续援助乌克兰本市建议针对以上缺失必须要有所改进好不好部长"},{"start":4795.458,"end":4816.447,"text":"好 我跟委員也說明一下我們從人道援助到協助重建那當然因為我們跟烏克蘭沒有設代表處嘛那我們就透過這理念相近周邊的中東歐國家那確實在幾個項目成效很好除了教育然後醫療現在到包括能源那這些當然有一些項目因為涉及到我們"},{"start":4817.888,"end":4842.487,"text":"在當地特殊的採購我們是會用比較屬於權宜的方法但是一定是要遵守立法院的決議來辦理所以這次的解凍案也感謝委員有關於在執行上面怎麼樣能夠有更透明然後更詳細的報告包括成果的評估好 謝謝謝謝黃委員"},{"start":4848.169,"end":4850.23,"text":"接下來由我們陳永康委員上台質詢部長您好剛才各個委員先進前面大家都關切我們在這個"},{"start":4874.642,"end":4900.696,"text":"整個以牙中間所以我是最外面的專家我正想聆聽大家都關切所以我們就不再focus在所謂僑生我們的同胞在那邊旅遊這個我知道外交部就做了很多精神花這個功夫那我下面也要希望提幾個問題就是因為川普總統上來以後現在我們要關切的就是川普2.0那他的國家安全戰略"},{"start":4901.776,"end":4918.514,"text":"在他的任内要向国会提出来那这个里面包括他的国防战略军事战略印太战略那上一次在月前古里安处长曾经回答媒体说有关川普总统的印太战略可以先参考第一任的2019的"},{"start":4919.835,"end":4940.844,"text":"那這個2019的那個解密的文件呢就在下面那句話那這個就提供參考了實際上啊我們就發現現在國際情勢的變化他不只是軍事實力被變外交立場的預防南海經濟的追求另外他要強調很多的法規專利的保護那這個是一個整合性的一個外交"},{"start":4942.397,"end":4954.847,"text":"事實上前陣子我們部內也安排過美國國會特別針對中共的研究委員會也來訪問我們也做過意念交流那就發現了我們需要把外交"},{"start":4957.64,"end":4970.128,"text":"經濟當然關稅問題了還有這個能源醫療體系還有國防啊我們希望做一個一個整合的概念那這個東西呢我們政府當然現在努力朝這個方向做但是將來啊他不能夠切開單獨做報告那這張圖啊"},{"start":4974.921,"end":4994.201,"text":"是从川普第45任拜登46任到他现在47任美国对国际所有他的不管是对手合作的对象当他要实施一些重点要求的时候他就在这个中间虚线里面的这20项主要的项目前后调整"},{"start":4995.743,"end":5012.91,"text":"从后面拉到前面加码那前面的放松就往后移其实它是一个完整的战略的一个scope那我们希望未来在这个领域里面透过跨部会的协商不管执政在野我们在共同努力能够预应掌握这个情势"},{"start":5013.82,"end":5034.166,"text":"那這樣子的話就不是說針對每一個單項的狀況去做問如何反應這點要大家共同努力那事實上這個美方的要求各位看出來了不只是關稅的問題也要取消障礙開放市場增加投資包括你的high tech過去"},{"start":5035.006,"end":5053.06,"text":"那么最后面这张我很快就跳过去就不提了那这是因为我们从这个民间的各种不同的资讯从美国内部资讯对这个川普总统对他的这个国际的招式做了一个分析但我就不提了那现在最主要就是"},{"start":5053.72,"end":5083.1,"text":"在这个国际情势变化万千我们外交部当然刚才都提了我希望我们的资讯处将来能够导入一些AI的技术掌握我们全球有邦交的国家有代表处的国家结合那个及时的GIS的情报就可以标注出来除了这个文字叙述以外可以显示出来那么利用这个AI的资料库我想我们在外讲所这边可以办研讨会我们都很愿意大家把一些经验做分享"},{"start":5084.061,"end":5098.72,"text":"现在比较严肃的问题啊就是以色列在这个6月13号啊凌晨3点啊打了两个伊朗的核设施那么伊朗的领袖啊就要谈啊要不要做报复那现在这个大家都是看媒体啊"},{"start":5099.301,"end":5125.076,"text":"很關心這種衝突會不會變成真正的所謂宣戰的戰爭目前是軍事衝突我們還沒有聽到聯合國的安理會對這兩個議題不管是中美英法書常任理事國提出這個問題的重要性現在大家都在關注所以就產生很多的不同的方向的論述包括昨天晚上的媒體甚至講了"},{"start":5128.495,"end":5150.834,"text":"巴基斯坦說如果以色列要用核武打那巴基斯坦就要挺伊朗這個就很衝突了伊朗會不會報復以色列的核設施這些圖上因為現在的工情跟衛照太容易做校正就找出來了我們當然希望看到還是用和平解決"},{"start":5153.393,"end":5179.745,"text":"川普總統是說要伊朗無條件surrender但是因為他不是戰爭行為如果不進行談判的話目前還保他一命還不要動手可是在伊朗內部的緊張會反映到他在其他情勢這個是昨天晚上剛才說有三架飛機進到伊朗其實是伊朗三架飛機往外走"},{"start":5180.592,"end":5203.325,"text":"那是昨天晚上的那透过专业的分析啊伊朗领导人的专机再加上两架空吧从昨天晚上就出来了那起飞以后啊中间他的这个所谓的cosign的他的接接252627三个cosign的号码消失中间有一架飞机啊完全失踪了"},{"start":5204.141,"end":5232.944,"text":"那昨天晚上的兩三腰拐11點17分他降落到阿曼馬斯卡特機場伊朗的好朋友是卡達因為他們在鴻海原油開發可是卡達有中央指揮部他不敢去巴林有第五艦隊結果他飛到阿曼去了"},{"start":5233.991,"end":5239.971,"text":"两种假设一种是领导人就脱逃了第二种假设是不是在"},{"start":5241.104,"end":5267.796,"text":"阿曼设一个会议的第三地那么由双方来探讨我是建议这几个问题请外交部持续关注这个昨天晚上落地这已经公布这个是Flightradar24的情报已经降落了就三架飞机包括领导人的专机再加两架Airbus已经降落了所以并不是中共的飞机进去而是三架飞机没有显示它的cos已经出来了"},{"start":5268.456,"end":5292.876,"text":"那麼大家都希望這個中正狀況能夠和平落幕那麼也希望我們駐外的同仁能夠在這個承受這麼大的壓力之下持續啊協助我們的學生協助我們的這個在外的僑胞或者是經商同仁能夠確保他們安全這點我們肯定外交部同仁以及在外面的合作這個"},{"start":5295.297,"end":5314.057,"text":"這個是承受一個壓力那真正的關切我們還是記住長遠的國際情勢安理會對這件事件有沒有提出會議那另外就是公情跟可以用的一般的資訊做交叉比對我們把這個及時資料大家分享也肯定大家努力謝謝部長您的指導"},{"start":5315.058,"end":5335.407,"text":"不敢當,確實我想怎麼藉助這種可視化的方式去呈現這些資訊另外一個就是我們跟友邦都有在做情報交換另外這個大使館之間也橫向的聯繫所以我們怎麼樣去掌握正確的資訊跟它可能的動態的發展的趨勢"},{"start":5339.109,"end":5354.373,"text":"有多一點時間來做好應變的準備所以剛剛委員提到的這些資訊都非常的寶貴那特別有一些是方法論這對我們外交部我想我們外交學院未來的這個在課程師資的設計跟怎麼樣導入包括AI來協助我們做決策的一個判斷那這是我們會來積極的來辦理謝謝委員謝謝部長"},{"start":5368.005,"end":5371.916,"text":"謝謝陳友康委員的私訊接下來有林柱英委員上來質詢"},{"start":5384.742,"end":5396.886,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長好 委員早部長早我想今天大家都蠻關注就是伊朗跟以色列的狀況那麼前面很多委員問過的部分我就不再重新提起我比較關注的就是事實上在"},{"start":5401.209,"end":5424.776,"text":"以色列跟伊朗衝突升級之前在網路上許多的年輕朋友關心的是有關於度假打工這個議題因為這個時間點上面真的是有點巧合啦就是我們在2023年的5月3號其實就台灣跟以色列就簽署了台乙的度假打工那麼其實我知道很多年輕朋友對於度假打工是非常希望前往的"},{"start":5425.236,"end":5433.525,"text":"比如說像在我的辦公室裡面就有好幾位我的同仁過去曾經到澳洲度假打工這些經驗對他們來講都非常的重要那麼但是我們是到2025年的6月1號就是這個月我們才開始外交部開始受理可是當時我們在以色列這邊我們已經是黃色的燈號了"},{"start":5447.139,"end":5464.325,"text":"那麼當然我們知道6月13號以色列攻擊伊朗之後整個外交部就把這個旅遊警戒變成橙燈跟紅燈那也暫停了度假打工就是台語的這個所謂的計劃那麼以目前為止因為時間上非常的短所以目前有人申請嗎"},{"start":5466.93,"end":5492.481,"text":"應該還沒有 因為我們只是公佈之後再就是可以來登記嘛因為我們並沒有審查也沒有在執行了那我跟委員提一下為什麼外交是很很微妙因為我們都知道現在因為以色列認為伊朗背後有中國的支持所以我們跟以色列關係是有很大的空間所以怎麼樣在國際的這個"},{"start":5497.225,"end":5522.896,"text":"規範或者是一些之下我們能夠跟以色列加強關係我們當然會因著情勢做調整不會說讓我們的國人去置於險境可是這代表一個我們對於以色列其實就是說其實他們還是有分區啦比如說在北境或者是在加薩那附近當然是市級的警戒紅色可是其他的地方"},{"start":5523.516,"end":5538.171,"text":"其實他們常年處於這種可能的威脅之下他們也是在過正常生活所以我們怎麼樣不會過度反應但是也能夠隨著情勢去做調整就像很多人會覺得從國外的媒體報導以為台灣很危險"},{"start":5542.395,"end":5553.498,"text":"那我們也希望大家來台灣之後會發現沒有那麼危險那這個判斷是什麼必須要有事實的依據所以我想說這個外交我們跟以色列透過這樣一個度假打工讓很多國家當然包括澳洲紐西蘭韓國等等也都是如此的時候我們怎麼樣跟國際同步"},{"start":5561.12,"end":5563.861,"text":"目前我們知道我們簽了18個國家啦那麼因為這個題目為什麼本席會特別希望在質詢台上講也是因為我覺得就是讓部長跟外交部有一個好好來說明的機會就像您剛剛說的這個外交或者是國跟國之間的狀況瞬息萬變但是目前因為我們已經停止受理了之後"},{"start":5583.806,"end":5589.431,"text":"那麼接下來外交部怎麼樣來規劃因為畢竟約簽了我們也不可能片面的就終止因為這個包括其實是兩個國家之間彼此之間在外交上面的協定那麼以目前的狀況停止了之後那麼外交部有沒有針對這個部分做研究跟了解那麼接下來當面對類似的狀況的時候又會大概如何來處理 部長"},{"start":5607.911,"end":5617.445,"text":"這個都有標準作業程序啦我們簽了這個但是當然會依照這個情字來做判斷那所以是受理"},{"start":5618.164,"end":5637.207,"text":"到他去辦理真正的度假打工這還是兩個階段是可是我們不能講說因為這個危機那我們就對外交有時候反而是一個契機啦就是雙邊關係的提升可是我們一定把安全置於最重要的一個基礎"},{"start":5637.908,"end":5661.862,"text":"因為畢竟部長也知道當這樣的訊息之前6月1號在網路上曝光之後我相信外交部也收到包括臉書或者是社群媒體上也收到許多的反饋是說怎麼把我們的青年直接就送上了危險的第一線所以在這個評估跟說明的部分外交部也必須要再更有"},{"start":5663.943,"end":5670.188,"text":"激敏 敏感度一點 對因為這個部分確實在時間點上面會讓外界覺得說非常的敏感那至於說什麼時候會再繼續重啟我想這個也要看兩個地區之間的戰況或者是彼此的最新的訊息那所以說現在目前為止來講因為它當時是個黃色燈號那我知道我們其實在外交上面有灰色 黃色 橙色跟紅色嘛灰色是提醒那麼黃色是注意"},{"start":5692.526,"end":5702.274,"text":"那麼有沒有可能未來在這個部分提升到說如果一旦是有黃色燈號的時候至少我們就不需要先公告還是說因為當時已經跟以色列有說明了就是要在2025年的6月1號要開始實施我們還是要依照國際規範來辦理而且要跟國際同步避免過猶不及啦"},{"start":5714.884,"end":5736.919,"text":"那因為我們旅遊的景色很多國家的情況不斷的在變化我們都會做滾動式的調整那從外交看來講啦因為其實以色列更能夠感受到跟台灣真的是我們都面對強敵的威脅那我們也在過正常的生活那這個地方通案性的去通過了度假打工"},{"start":5738.5,"end":5761.051,"text":"跟我們個案什麼時候要去實施這個我們都會應照情勢來做一些評估跟判斷那所以有一些說什麼偷偷拿下來或者是說為什麼這個時候去公佈不公佈才奇怪公佈但是是隨著情勢去調整那這個都有依據比如說那些旅遊的警示就是很好的依據而且我剛剛講跟國際同步"},{"start":5763.223,"end":5767.745,"text":"這才不會讓人家覺得我們有時候沒有反應也不好啦 反應過度所以您部長的意思就是其實在有關於這個度假打工公佈的同時其實在國際上也是認為此刻這樣子比如說讓留學生又或者是這些實習生到以色列區其實是安全的所以我們也沒有做的特別的超過但我們也沒有特別的不敏感"},{"start":5788.573,"end":5791.814,"text":"其實都是跟國際同步的狀況韓國跟澳洲紐西蘭都持續辦理中但是最近的情況也都在調整中好 了解那麼另外一個當然就是我們今天會解凍一個300萬的台灣對國際關懷救助及重建的業務費那因為我們知道其實台灣現在面對就是我們的宣傳費在外交部這個外交單位的部分是完全都"},{"start":5815.121,"end":5831.646,"text":"被刪除了所以本席其實當然也要特別肯定部長啦現在是用一種文化外交或總和外交的方式讓台灣走出去尤其是本席過去一直非常關注台灣的藝文展演可不可以在國際上發光那麼這一次部長到休斯頓去推動這個台灣Tower就加深台美的文化關係然後包括我們台灣的藝術家Aka Chen特別到這個美國美東美西都去做了展覽"},{"start":5843.089,"end":5854.535,"text":"那麼四月份捷克也跟我們簽了國家文物的保護法所以我們故宮要到捷克去做展覽其實我覺得這個部分都是非常好的那我不知道部長知不知道接下來包括像這個台北的故宮現在呢跟這個美國大都會的展覽現在也開始了那麼還有就是連續"},{"start":5866.141,"end":5888.674,"text":"三年這個環法自行車也會在我們的南投舉行我自己都認為這個是一個非常好的文化外交或符合你的總和外交在我們的這個所謂外交部的國際宣傳費用被砍到零甚至於負的狀況底下本席是要特別提出來質詢但是也肯定部長和外交部的同仁透過文化跟其他的部會的結合可以讓台灣持續被看見"},{"start":5892.156,"end":5901.83,"text":"是 我跟委員也依照這個機會報告當然預算 台灣現在外交部的預算我站我們中央政府總預算已經不到1%"},{"start":5903.697,"end":5926.619,"text":"那逐年地檢從1.79%在這個2008年那個時候所以我們要現在全世界想跟台灣來往的越來越多所以我剛剛講比如科技外交我們的半導體AI這些是在像美國、日本、歐洲另外文化外交的軟實力像故宮在捷克"},{"start":5927.599,"end":5950.966,"text":"還有這個法國的一個展出 9月跟11月陸續這個百件文物那我們就把它發展成歐洲台灣文化年那把這個品牌打出去就是這個是我們當然沒錢也有沒錢的做法就多辦活動啦那當然其實宣傳效果透過活動當然是一個但是如果能夠讓我們有宣傳的費用我想可以達到更多的人歐洲我們有26個館處都動起來"},{"start":5953.087,"end":5964.772,"text":"都把他們年度要辦的活動整合成一個歐洲台灣文化年很精彩的包括這一次去教廷的台灣原民原聲合唱團那真的是驚動了整個歐洲嘆為可以說是天籟之聲我們比如說駐維也納劉璇勇大使他不只在維也納街頭被邀請指揮樂團他最近俠館的克羅埃西亞還有另外一個"},{"start":5983.53,"end":6007.611,"text":"那個國家斯洛維尼亞其實我們的演出還有很多的活動我意思是說台灣現在不只是所謂價值外交是加值外交就跟台灣來往我們怎麼跟他對應之後會增加附加價值那對他那個國家來講我想他們會感受到台灣的就是說"},{"start":6009.352,"end":6025.1,"text":"我們講說良善的力量啦可以促進彼此的成長跟提升所以台灣真的是很豐富但是巧夫也是難為無名之催所以還是要有一點預算那我們是期待能夠恢復"},{"start":6026.181,"end":6053.781,"text":"到將近20年前的那個數字因為我們的GDP還有我們的中央總預算成長這麼多可是我們外交部的預算都都在300億而已這一點在我會一個一個去拜訪我們外交國防委員會我們的委員跟大家詳細說而且大家委員想推動的國會外交也是總和外交一部分像剛剛黃仁委員他去做原住民外交的時候那個簡直是我們自己外交部就"},{"start":6054.682,"end":6064.053,"text":"我們就省掉這條預算,那當然整合大家的力量,步步都是外交部嘛,人人都是外交部部長講得很心酸啦,但本席為什麼會特別提出來是因為像這種別人走進來台灣,或是台灣的藝術家,或者是文化走出去其實這個宣傳跟行銷也都是展現台灣,而且讓台灣的職人可以被世界看到"},{"start":6074.986,"end":6088.531,"text":"那像這樣的預算絕對不是用在部長您身上或者是我們其實在場的這些外交部的同仁身上其實更多的是用在我們的國人身上我也覺得這個部分其實是應該要透過我們的質詢讓全國民眾看到好 謝謝"},{"start":6091.921,"end":6112.664,"text":"誠摯邀請委員們能夠去出席在布拉格跟巴黎的故宮百見文物展我覺得國會如果在黃仁委員或是趙薇帶領之下能夠一起到全境歐洲台灣文化年 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝林淳英的質詢 接下來由沈伯陽、趙薇上台質詢"},{"start":6125.679,"end":6148.542,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 有請這個部長 謝謝好 委員謝謝這個 在一開始就是說這一個除了預算解凍以外因為幾個跟預算有關的事項因為現在還有一項還沒有排啦那這個我想先問就是說因為在這個六月的時候民主基金會有去這一個這個日本嘛跟一橋大學有一個這個東海民主論壇"},{"start":6149.262,"end":6173.829,"text":"那因為這個院會進行,我們這邊也蠻多不能過去的那是不是可以請部長或者說請民主基金會跟大家順便跟國人報告一下他最主要的一個目的還有他的一個結果來,請主席,委員您好,部長您好是,我們是其實六月十一號、十二號才過去那我們這一次是我們的台灣民主基金會的旗艦計畫叫做"},{"start":6175.329,"end":6203.45,"text":"ADF is the Asia Democracy Forum我們已經舉辦第十一屆了那這個最主要是在東亞地區那包括日本、韓國包括菲律賓包括新加坡還有包括印度尼西亞這幾個國家是我們的steering committee我們聚會最主要目的這次是討論我們怎麼樣重新適應調整民主的步伐增強我們的韌性那這些連結都是各地重要的NGO那所以這是我們基本上就是穩固"},{"start":6204.13,"end":6229.162,"text":"台灣在東亞地區既有的某種NGO的領導地位對 因為我今天偶爾有看到這一個相關的報導看起來就是有一些專家然後看起來不少的NGO啦那這個跟部長常提到的總和外交應該是非常的合致那因為我現在我們跟日本的關係其實變得越來越重要我們在外交上面當然在日本上外交有一定的拓展但是因為日本的NGO有一些它也有一些官方的背景"},{"start":6229.662,"end":6255.837,"text":"然後有一些NGO也比較低調但我們如果能夠更長的接觸因為我覺得民主基金會是一個很好的橋樑所以希望能夠再多宣傳多跟國人講這件事情我認為這是非常重要的我跟委員報告其實執行長跟我講他們想做很多事情那也是跨黨派所以民主基金會的預算相對國際來講我們當然也是表現了很好的國會的支持如果能夠足以增加"},{"start":6256.897,"end":6274.594,"text":"因為現在這個玉山論壇之後有推出這個IMGO中心在台灣因為現在香港大家都知道這個中共的這個控制那其實在印太地區最適合發展這種國際非政府組織作為總部或是分部的是台灣尤其是川普因為他對USAID"},{"start":6278.257,"end":6298.896,"text":"把他改組之後所以我們這個過渡期間今年其實跟很多NGO反而有更大的合作的空間所以這一點委員本身都有在推動我是覺得在預算上面如果大家肯定民主基金會我們在明年編列預算的時候我們來佐與增加"},{"start":6302.339,"end":6323.965,"text":"希望可以,因為我覺得這個真的是蠻重要的一件事就是說在國際情勢的這個變化當中尤其是不管是USAID還有像NEDNED我知道他們最近可能慢慢能夠取回一定程度的預算但是也沒有到百分之百,搞不好百分之五十、六十之類的這其實都應該是台灣能夠站出來的時候但它偏偏我們的預算如果不夠的話我們也站不出來"},{"start":6325.485,"end":6349.515,"text":"這個部分就反請部長到時候再做更好的一些規劃可以因應這不是只有中國威脅而已還包含這個美國內部政治的改變那這個其實我們在民主機器會的因應我認為特別重要好 謝謝文哲哲那接下來我問一個小問題這個就是說最近我們這個外交部的小編在這個外交部的這個粉專上面在回應的時候呢回應得比較嗆辣一點"},{"start":6350.996,"end":6369.687,"text":"那我先講我沒有說什麼要回去什麼要什麼小編要懲戒啦或者要調查我不是這個意思我在想的一件事情就是說其實小編的回覆的有一些是有創意的但是問題是創意要用在哪一個部分我覺得這可以再思量因為我覺得以外交部的立場"},{"start":6370.487,"end":6392.72,"text":"就是說小編是近期尤其是這個網路世代所生的一個產物那它本身在過往假設我們還沒有這個小編的時代它在很多網站它其實是類似有點像總編的一個地位但我們現在小編有時候就是因為小編某種程度它代表一個人格化的政府所以它會在上面做發言所以它某種程度還是會代表外交部"},{"start":6394.221,"end":6412.956,"text":"因為這個其實它是在針對跟中國有關的議題尤其是那時候跟六四有關這當然也是現在很尷尬的地方我們雖然把很多的業務是切給陸委會但其實對於中國的打壓在外面應對的是外交部所以在這個程度上面對方他去用什麼樣的話語我們要怎麼應對他還是有一種"},{"start":6413.596,"end":6441.298,"text":"外交辭令因為外交部本身有外交辭令上的一些要求小編當然是比較生活化然後讓人民覺得比較貼近就是說我這邊寫的他是一個比較親切的一個公僕的角色啦我並沒有說這個一定是對或錯但我想知道的是因為其實小編的地位我認為應該要提升那在小編地位提升的時候呢表示他在比如說他要去回覆他要去發文他一定會有一定程度的審核SOP因為他要跟外交部其實要更緊密的對接嘛"},{"start":6442.058,"end":6466.852,"text":"那所以在這個方面現在我們這個對於小編譬如說他發文的SOP或者回文的SOP還有到底是誰在審核這個機制現在有沒有慢慢建立起來好 我們國傳司當然有一些機制我大概提他說不過我覺得對委員提這個問題非常好因為現在在社群媒體的時代你怎麼樣很及時的互動那當然要正確另外至於說有一定的"},{"start":6468.462,"end":6494.453,"text":"就是說活潑性這個空間啊所以我並沒有去責怪任何的人但是用的語言因為涉及到有一些是網軍來攻擊那小編也是人啦他有用某種方式去回應我是覺得其實社會可以從另外一個角度但是因為是外交部啊我們有一些語詞在用的時候我們稍微要有一個"},{"start":6496.334,"end":6522.334,"text":"理解就是這個畢竟是你一個用人物的方式來呈現外交部所以這個我都沒有去責備我們的小人我覺得一個人願意在第一線去捍衛我們外交部或國家面對到那些網軍其實很多甚至AI機器人大量的假訊息在攻擊的時候但是我就覺得大家也不用應該講說不用"},{"start":6525.711,"end":6539.938,"text":"跟對方一般見識啦我覺得用一些更有時候更更有智慧的方式或更比較就是不是去嗆"},{"start":6541.618,"end":6561.436,"text":"跟對方一樣的方式陷入對方的邏輯因為這個其實說真的當時有成為新聞的報導但某種程度又呈現了一次就是說中國對我們的打壓所以當然在呈現的目的上面我們其實可以讓別人知道說這個事情的嚴重性因為其實現在尤其是外交部或者說我們總統的臉書這個是外國的網軍很喜歡來洗版所以那個感受當然也不是很好"},{"start":6565.88,"end":6589.296,"text":"所以我可以理解他當時的這個心境,然後以及回文,其實某種程度都凸顯了這個問題那我覺得,所以我不會說這個是一個對錯的問題,但是就是我們以後,因為小編的責任會越來越重大,在現今的這個社會所以他的那個審核的機制啦,SOP啦等等之類的,然後每一次如果出現了什麼事情,誰要來說明什麼等等之類的這個機制如果建立好,我覺得可能比個案還要來得更重要啦"},{"start":6591.097,"end":6618.229,"text":"還會檢視一下這個機制對希望能夠趕快建立好 趕快建立那接下來就是這個問題其實我之前有稍微提過但是我覺得也有必要在這個時間點我覺得我也可以再問一次就是說因為經濟學人這個他有統計說這個全球有這一個70個國家去認同這個認同其實不是說單純一個中國的問題而是就是中國到底有沒有權利用任何手段達成"},{"start":6619.469,"end":6644.496,"text":"統一 統一這個錯誤的字眼啦 其實就是侵略啦就是用任何的手段去達成侵略這一件事情中國一直嘗試去說服別的國家那我知道外交部要應對這件事情不是那麼容易啦那中國要去說服別的國家這我們很難去達成但是我們總是要有一些反制的方案這是第一個第二個就是這一件事情因為外媒報導但其實台灣內部對這一個的報導其實是比較少的但我總覺得這其實應該要讓國人知道"},{"start":6646.957,"end":6665.988,"text":"因為陸委會有時候做很多比如說就是風險的控管啊什麼等等之類的我覺得陸委會在這一邊的能量不一定有辦法還要再關注這一事情但因為這個事情涉及是中國跟別的國家的外交事務我覺得外交部如果能夠把這件事情更清楚的讓國人知道應該會是一件重要的事"},{"start":6666.482,"end":6694.218,"text":"我想這就好好跟委員說這個事情非常重要因為中共在造成新常態它跟很多國家的共同聲明它就是最近有兩個現象一個就是把聯合國所謂27582決議要放進去變成所謂一中原則的依據另外一個就是所謂認同或支持中國可以採取任何手段來所謂統一台灣"},{"start":6695.279,"end":6712.369,"text":"或是說推動國家的統一這個是在對武力犯台建立它在法理上的基礎所以我們當跟很多國家講他才意識到所以我們也曾經阻止了最近這半年來中國企圖壓迫一些國家"},{"start":6713.906,"end":6734.377,"text":"就是寫上了這幾句話就是說認同中國可以採用一切手段統一台灣他們才意識到因為有時候有些人可能在應付或是不知覺那我們也透過這個東西去操作比如說像今年的應該說G7在日本的某種程度就是提醒因為以前都會講一個中國的政策"},{"start":6737.932,"end":6749.629,"text":"可是一個中國政策跟一個中國原則很難分別那老共就是不斷地用這個方法去扭曲所以當這個時候其實G7已經我們看到就沒有再去提所謂的一中政策"},{"start":6750.706,"end":6774.307,"text":"我們也是用這個跟很多國家的他們會覺得有道理因為一中政策會被一中原則給去把它扭曲因為其實各個國家的一中政策也不太一樣所以這個也是另外一個我們的反制那也有成功的例子那至於說70幾個認同它這個樣子其實還有100多個國家我們要做好跟他們的溝通避免再有更多重複這樣的一個情形"},{"start":6774.867,"end":6803.681,"text":"那就像說法律戰在為他的軍事犯台建立所謂的這個不管是法理基礎或是未來這個混合戰的操作所以這一點確實委員有提出來這是我們現在在外交領域上可以說每天都在面對的一個新常態那我們也有所因應感謝部長 不好意思超過一點時間謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝沈委員 照顧委員的資訊接下來有徐曉新委員上來質詢"},{"start":6805.367,"end":6806.868,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 委員好部長好我想要請教一個問題就是我們台灣跟巴拉圭是不是先前有一些經貿相關的協議它的背景是如何的可以幫我們稍微陳述一下嗎"},{"start":6835.239,"end":6844.012,"text":"經貿的協議我們跟巴拉圭對就是呢台巴經濟合作協定在106年7月12號簽署107年2月28號生效實施那它是為了擴大台巴經濟合作協定的效益"},{"start":6850.641,"end":6870.931,"text":"那先前呢其實我看到新聞這個部長您也有對於台巴之間的這個因為簽署相關的協議之後的產生的兩國之間的這個正向幫助有過一些談話所以我想要問一下當初在簽訂相關的這個協議的時候您有沒有掌握那協議的相關的內容"},{"start":6872.532,"end":6898.26,"text":"是108年跟10那個時候還不是外交部長沒有沒有就是最近的時候因為他這個今年的8因為他呢是要修正這個海關進口稅責所以才就進口一些農書對他簽約的時間很早嘛那跟您沒有關係但是呢他到要準備實施上路的時候那您當時已經是外交部長了所以呢這個附委審查呢是113年的11月29號"},{"start":6900.461,"end":6928.259,"text":"委員會是在這個財政委員會審查那是114年的3月20號然後呢不需要協商行政院提案通過那呢當時我有看到新聞上面您有針對這個台灣跟巴拉圭那經過這樣子的一個協議之後那可能在外交上面能夠更緊密的結合那這個部分可不可以為我們說明一下其實台巴的經貿關係對雙方都很重要因為它有一個"},{"start":6929.659,"end":6948.909,"text":"難追共同市場有將近3億人口所以假設有自由貿易協定類似那當然他的進口台灣因為這個包括牛肉豬肉等另外就是我們現在那邊要設科學園區一個智慧化的科技園區本來有一個工業區在東方市"},{"start":6949.529,"end":6954.134,"text":"後來就是因為有些很多紛爭一直都無法開發那我們現在解決了所有問題因為我們現在台灣已經有企業包括像我們最近那個電動巴士國家隊經過我們國家審查過國產化的就去那邊已經有運電巴過去而且會設廠"},{"start":6968.47,"end":6984.291,"text":"另外也有紡織業 人造纖維會在那邊因為他們有很好的水力發電也是綠電另外包括AI計算這些包括美國的國務卿Rubio他都有提到巴拉圭是很適合做AI資料中心的地方"},{"start":6984.611,"end":6998.363,"text":"所以我們過去會覺得說這些地方好像相對來講沒有那麼多商機可是我們現在發現跟我們建交反而我們可以運用在當地國的投資免關稅不然這個南美的關稅是很高的同樣我們對他進口台灣也是免關稅這樣也可以促進他產業的發展"},{"start":7004.588,"end":7007.551,"text":"所以您剛講到免關稅那實際上面我們免關稅那關稅修正到這個包含是說調降巴拉圭的去骨豬肉或者是已經調製或保存的牛雜碎等等的"},{"start":7020.982,"end":7030.305,"text":"那這些呢 是稅率降到免稅那這個部分呢 農業部當時的說明因為 不好意思 因為外交部 農業部跟這個財政委員會我們共同針對這個台八的相關的協議一定都是有參與到的那不會只有外交部嘛 有相關的評估可能是其他的部會"},{"start":7042.529,"end":7063.6,"text":"那當時農業部的說明裡面他就講到說調降巴拉圭農產品關稅對我國的影響在冷凍去骨豬肉這個部分他寫到調降巴拉圭冷凍豬肉的關稅將可以替代自歐盟進口的部分高價豬肉對我國的養豬產業不至於造成影響"},{"start":7064.801,"end":7076.296,"text":"那這個我不曉得這個部長知不知道這件事情就是說我們在台巴協議的時候呢我們把豬肉冷凍去骨豬肉的關稅降到零了"},{"start":7077.216,"end":7102.708,"text":"我知道最近開始實施所以貝尼亞總統也認為這是一個非常重大的一個雙邊關係的突破那至於說農業部他基於他專業的評估那個進口這個巴拉圭的牛肉零關稅的時候當然他現在有一定的這個進口量但是對他們來講是出口國台灣是會變得最重要"},{"start":7103.468,"end":7121.924,"text":"但是這件事情在包含雲林的豬農開始有非常多的抗議這個也是要跟這個部長做一個報告那巴拉圭豬肉漲到林關水那當初講的農業部的他的所謂的專業意見是不會被豬農造成影響但是實際上面我們的豬農有非常非常大的反彈在雲林等養豬的相關的縣市"},{"start":7129.811,"end":7143.023,"text":"所以呢在這樣子的一個經貿相關的這個我們的簽訂的時候對我們是有一些地方有加分的但對我們的某一些產業它也可能受到傷害那我們不能說因為呢我們簽了這個相關的合約然後我們"},{"start":7146.826,"end":7167.751,"text":"有一些產業受到正面的影響但是對於負面的影響這個部分我們就好像並不是這麼在乎尤其是豬農在台灣來講是非常非常重要的一個產業就像是先前以前可能我們防止非洲豬瘟然後我們這個豬肉的市場或者是說美國當時來豬進口的時候豬農的相關的反彈等等的"},{"start":7171.872,"end":7198.71,"text":"所以豬農對於這樣子的一個台巴協議把豬肉降到零關稅這件事情已經開始表達非常多的不滿那我能夠理解外交部這邊的想法是說我們兩邊的雙邊互惠那你給我們免稅或低稅率那我們這邊也必須要在巴拉圭所需要之處給予零關稅或是低稅率這個我是能夠理解的"},{"start":7199.19,"end":7204.716,"text":"但是對於這個豬農所受到因為我們的這個雙邊的外交關係所受到的重創所受到的影響以及他們的不滿我覺得還是必須要反應讓外交部知道那我想要最後請教的是說那既然現在有跟您提到這件事情有沒有可能外交部這裡再去協同農業部"},{"start":7221.272,"end":7224.977,"text":"許問一下他們當初說不會受到影響但是豬農有反彈這件事情是不是請農業部他們能夠去跟豬農了解一下或者是說明一下或者是說在他們所需要相關的補貼補償或協助上面能夠做好"},{"start":7239.895,"end":7244.381,"text":"因為呢一個一個反推回來之後最後會推到的是因為我們做台巴的外交就像呢川普的這個關稅貿易戰我們也經常就是在外交委員會來詢問嘛那這種跨委員會的這個情況那雖然呢不是這個豬肉的部分"},{"start":7257.396,"end":7266.927,"text":"評估不是由外交部主責但它是為了增進台巴之間的經貿關係以及外交關係所以推演到最後其實還是兩國之間的關係的緊密程度所以我在這邊呢想要請這個我們的外交部長"},{"start":7272.614,"end":7278.558,"text":"是不是回去可以開通農業部請他們針對過去他們講說不會受到影響這個部分重新評估並且跟包含是雲林等縣市養豬比較多的縣市去做一個好的溝通如果真的豬農感受到會受到影響也必須要有相關的對應的措施"},{"start":7294.247,"end":7309.878,"text":"我們的政府部會不會是分外交部、農業部每個部會然後互不隸屬、互不關心所以在這個部分我想要請問部長是不是可以回去跟農業部來溝通一下這個豬農現在反應非常非常的激烈這個情況"},{"start":7311.679,"end":7334.621,"text":"我們會按照委員的意思來辦理當然我們也尊重農業部專業的判斷確實這個外交是總和外交是全國人的事情其實這個是雙向因為台灣現在的豬肉出口因為我們都拔針了而且非疫區這個有時候是雙向怎麼樣幫助我們的"},{"start":7336.079,"end":7343.889,"text":"農民啊能夠擴大市場這也是最近包括去巴拉圭比如說食品加工其實巴拉圭的牛肉"},{"start":7345.721,"end":7374.201,"text":"這個我們台灣的這個企業是覺得加工之後是非常有衝突沒有因為台灣有出口到包括美國對我知道因為台灣對於牛肉是比較沒有這麼量這麼大啦那對豬肉的影響一定會比較大如果你問牛跟豬的話來講的話豬肉對於豬農台灣的豬農的數量非常多我們養豬的品質也非常的好所以在豬肉相關的這個品項降到零關稅的時候那難免我們的豬農他可能"},{"start":7375.762,"end":7380.503,"text":"會有覺得有壓力或者說會認為會影響到他們的這個產業那如果說呢只是他們的誤會那希望說外交部這裡可以告訴農業部請他們去做說明那如果真的有影響的話農業部重新評估真的有影響的話該輔導的該協助的該協助開拓市場的這件事情呢一定要做"},{"start":7398.928,"end":7424.667,"text":"那因為他推到最後極致是我們台灣跟巴拉圭之間的互動關係我們中華民國的外交所以還是希望由我們外交部長能夠向農業部這邊來做一個說明就是說我們這裡接收到的信息我們有跟農業部長雙部長會議我們會來反映但是我就跟委員講這個不是零和我都同意我們現在利用巴拉圭其實我在跟很多的養豬業"},{"start":7426.089,"end":7432.128,"text":"尤其是智慧養豬的這些青龍討論整個要去巴拉圭設廠"},{"start":7433.561,"end":7461.413,"text":"然後其實善用巴拉圭在南追共同市場這個龐大的人口以及他們可以出口他們到美國到歐洲其實包括跟歐盟也在簽自由貿易協定您講的是青農的部分但我講的是在像雲林的傳統的豬農所以說雲林傳統豬農才是因為我對雲林有一定的了解沒有 我跟您說包含是丁學中委員跟張家俊委員都收到非常多來自豬農的抗議"},{"start":7462.313,"end":7467.836,"text":"所以這個抗議是確實存在的不是我今天一個人在這邊就覺得可以胡亂的來講說豬農的我同意委員剛剛的提醒我也會去推動只是我想說這不是零和我們只要讓台灣的農業包括養豬業走出去"},{"start":7479.183,"end":7504.272,"text":"因為像菲律賓也是另外一個很好的所以我們也有額外的投資所以我理解我們必須簽訂這樣子的協議對某些產業是好的嘛但當豬農他們有抗議確實有在抗議的時候那我覺得我們也應該要負責不管是在外交上面的溝通或者是農業部上面的評估以及溝通我們都希望能夠讓外交好的同時對於國內的一些重要產業尤其是傳統的相關的農業"},{"start":7507.173,"end":7529.784,"text":"農牧業 那他們也能夠感到安心 好不好好 謝謝部長 好 我們一起來推動好 謝謝謝巧勳委員的質詢接下來有鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員不在那待會我們在馬文清委員執行後休息五分鐘我們請黃國昌委員上台質詢"},{"start":7535.692,"end":7560.901,"text":"社會主席麻煩請部長可以了嗎?部長可以了嗎?可以喔,我也好好的,部長好府院黨高層發生了共諜案讓全體的國人非常的痛心"},{"start":7562.321,"end":7587.327,"text":"之前請教部長的是有關於在外交部伴隨在外交部長身邊的一些機要他們進行安全查核的狀況吳釗燮已經成為我們在國安上、外交上一個非常嚴重的破口"},{"start":7588.906,"end":7611.389,"text":"任內六年內斷交八個邦交國當然裡面最可惡的是中華人民共和國不斷地在挖我國外交的牆角這也是為什麼在外交戰上面這麼的重要大家都支持外交部希望把工作給做好沒想到"},{"start":7612.881,"end":7641.73,"text":"我們的吳釗燮部長旁邊養了一個共諜長年洩露資料目前吳釗燮他的親信何仁傑已經起訴了起訴代表案件偵查終結了他所洩露的機密資訊對我們的外交所造成的傷害外交部進行了評估沒有有傷害大不大大非常大"},{"start":7643.427,"end":7662.329,"text":"就是傷害大那何仁傑當然接受司法審判嘛你認為吳釗燮要不要負責這個有檢調單位跟司法單位我們分兩個層次嘛何仁傑的部分司法檢調當然追溯的是刑事責任嘛"},{"start":7663.072,"end":7680.323,"text":"我說吳釗燮要不要負責是政治責任他養在旁邊的人洩露的資訊部長剛說對我國國家外交國安造成非常大的傷害吳釗燮要不要負政治責任就是我的問題因為在這個"},{"start":7681.96,"end":7709.488,"text":"檢察官的起訴書上也呈現了一些我想對外交傷害的描述至於說您在質詢我我的看法我都誠實講包括這個查核的範圍因為他接觸的機密的程度怎麼樣能夠確實來落實這個我也都我們都會透過這個事件來做檢討跟改善你覺得吳釗燮要不要負政治責任"},{"start":7710.959,"end":7731.458,"text":"這個所謂政治責任就是有一個政務官自己去判斷他自己判斷就對了嘛他自己要知所進退嘛 部長你的意思是這樣嘛委員如果有機會的話可以問他我就沒有機會啊 是啊 法治委員會請了他好幾次啊他不來就是不來啊好像現在全中華民國 我們整個台灣吳釗燮最大吳釗燮最大"},{"start":7734.901,"end":7762.904,"text":"什麼人都管不到他他也不用管任何人我是沒機會問到他啦所以我才請教部長沒關係你是現任的部長要你去批判前任的部長我也不要為難你這不是我的初衷但是在國會殿堂我們一定要利用機會說出非常多台灣人的心聲啊造成這麼大的外交國安破口啊還有臉賴在位子上"},{"start":7764.688,"end":7781.837,"text":"還有臉賴在位子上啊這什麼前外交部部長啊無恥至極啊自己不知道自己對國家造成的傷害有多大啊還賴在位子上啊立法院請他來都不敢來啊來 第二個剛剛部長說 起訴書你都看過了嘛對吧"},{"start":7792.373,"end":7804.047,"text":"剛剛你講到起訴書有描述對國家安全外交傷害很大嘛那代表部長起訴書看過了嘛對吧是好2022年"},{"start":7805.956,"end":7830.356,"text":"外交電報屏外洩駐美代表蕭美琴很生氣啊那時候我們的副總...呃...現在的副總統當時的駐美代表非常火大我們駐美代表處的機密外洩造成美國的不信任結果洩密的來源不是駐美代表處部長你知不知道當時洩密的來源是哪裡"},{"start":7832.54,"end":7852.548,"text":"就這個個案我不清楚真的喔那個部長你回去再把起訴書再把它看得更詳細一點看完我相信你會掌握更清楚的線索所以我一開始我在開宗明義的請教你嘛何仁杰他搞出來的洞對我們的傷害有多大"},{"start":7853.379,"end":7882.024,"text":"因為傷害造成了法律責任、政治責任我們追究那但是,與此同時怎麼去修補這個傷害也是很重要的事嘛你一定要先知道傷害在哪裡才知道要如何修補嘛我的思考邏輯是這個樣子啦對,才能做好損害控管所以,2022年我們的駐美代表蕭美琴很生氣的這件事情"},{"start":7883.14,"end":7893.246,"text":"那時候瘋傳媒啊還寫一個評論外交電報評外洩啊蕭美琴該火大的對象就是她您知不知道那個她是誰啊這個報導裡面有寫啊是 吳釗燮嘛欸 這個報導裡面就是吳釗燮嘛那2022年警鈴都已經響了2022年警鈴都已經響了"},{"start":7912.282,"end":7937.199,"text":"結果呢 等到真的出事了真的出事了結果這個傢伙還賴在位子上我老實講讓我覺得真的是嘆為觀止啊不知道該怎麼樣啊 形容那藉由質詢部長這件事情因為啊 那個起訴書上面所寫的內容指證歷歷啦我們哪些外交活動"},{"start":7938.77,"end":7966.662,"text":"被吳釗燮旁邊養的共諜搞得亂七八糟的上面都有寫啦我希望部長還有外交部的同仁辛苦啦前面的人捅的馬蜂窩我們在第一線辛苦的外交同仁現在要收拾善後因為最近在接見一些美國友人跟智庫的時候他們也很關心這件事"},{"start":7968.14,"end":7991.57,"text":"我們相信台灣這邊的官員跟他們講很多事結果台灣官員旁邊養的共諜把他跑去跟北京講這對我們外交傷害非常的嚴重這種關係的修補漏洞把他補起來都是非常重要的事部長你同意嗎"},{"start":7992.993,"end":8015.341,"text":"同意好啊加油啊加油啊希望接下來上次你所提到的你們有關於啊人事特殊安全查核制度的改革能夠早一點落實不要再發生這樣的事情了好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝黃國昌呃執行接下來有馬文清上台執行"},{"start":8026.939,"end":8029.72,"text":"謝謝主席謝謝部長已經站上來了部長早部長今天我們也特別提到很多委員也在關切就是說中東的緊張局勢因為事實上他從112年開始因為以巴戰爭還有葉門的"},{"start":8046.664,"end":8049.227,"text":"這個胡塞組織的鴻海危機其實它就一直持續到現在美軍也一直在增強在中東地區的兵力部署的這個航母艦隊也從來沒有減少而且甚至近期更將印太的兵力往中東地區去做支援"},{"start":8064.304,"end":8080.735,"text":"那在昨天美國政府更宣布美軍已經在參戰的邊緣而且要求伊朗無條件投降美國務院也連續發出安全警訊要求不要前往伊朗、伊拉克以及以色列川普總統更要所有人離開德黑蘭這些事態外交部目前都有掌握嗎我們就是全力掌握中那現在我們的掌握跟美國的做法有什麼不一樣"},{"start":8093.976,"end":8099.959,"text":"我們當然有跟包括美方還有他們各國的大使館交換這些資訊來做因應那有沒有成立專責的工作小組跟外館建立高風險地區通報機制或者跟第三國協調撤離的機制"},{"start":8110.706,"end":8116.85,"text":"有 我們都有標準作為程序要針對這個就是在中東的這個戰事的發展密切注意跟相對的來做因應部長我們想要比較清楚的回答因為它已經發展 事態已經發展到這樣因為外交部直到昨天晚上六點的時候還是維持以色列橙色警訊因為美國都已經改成紅色最高等級我們還是橙色的這個原因是什麼"},{"start":8141.736,"end":8163.77,"text":"其實有些國家有紅色有些國家是有橙色有些是部分紅色部分橙色我們是部分紅色部分橙色我們哪裡是紅色北京跟嘉薩附近這裡我們是紅色我們認為其他地方還不到這樣的地步因為它都有它的一個評估的標準所以我們就是根據這個標準來辦理"},{"start":8165.342,"end":8167.264,"text":"可是美國已經發出這樣子的紅色的警訊了但是像日韓像很多國家他們還是維持也是橙色"},{"start":8176.314,"end":8194.764,"text":"那我們其實不是看日韓啦我們看的應該是我們能夠對因為日韓有些他們在撤離或者他們跟周邊國家的協調他們可以往周邊國家跑的時候其實他們都還有一些規劃跟他們的一些撤離的機制那我們的台貿的這個專責的工作單位"},{"start":8201.636,"end":8226.194,"text":"他們現在目前我們相駐德黑蘭的台貿中心是否要撤離因為我們在伊朗沒有代表處嘛就是這個貿協啊這個德黑蘭中心就是這個負責他當然是經濟部的單位不過我們的聯繫都非常的密切那因為我們針對旅外的國人都有這個登錄啦當然他有一些他沒有登錄他會來做"},{"start":8227.455,"end":8232.076,"text":"因為剛剛您說有掌握這相關的這些態勢的發展我現在要說的是美國已經發出紅色警戒那我們還在橙色那也如果我們認為這樣可以那另外伊朗是全部的紅色嗎那紅色警戒我們台貿中心是否應該要撤離因為你都已經紅色警戒他連地方都沒得跑他們是都有做準備有做的可以去哪裡"},{"start":8252.64,"end":8256.686,"text":"他們接下來要打第三區我們的台貿中心就是在第三區他們接下來已經宣布要打第三區我們就在那裡那你現在還不走要等什麼時候才走"},{"start":8268.422,"end":8283.488,"text":"因為九人裡面走了三人然後另外三個人已經安排要離境因為當然有時候我們的政府單位或所屬的法人機構他們怎麼去照顧我們在當地的人讓他能夠順利的離境這個也是他的工作可是也必須要照顧自己的安全"},{"start":8284.108,"end":8290.291,"text":"不能置於險境部長那個都沒關係我剛剛講的是台貿中心已經是被宣稱已經要攻擊的周邊區域了你們應該要做的是他有他即使照顧國人也要照顧自己他自己都不安全他沒有辦法再做後續的工作這個部分他們可以撤離去哪裡可以撤離去哪裡可以撤離他們都有做好的來請說"},{"start":8307.301,"end":8321.395,"text":"這個部分簡短跟穩報告您剛提到第三區的確伊朗國家電視台就在第三區昨天我們跟孫主任冒險孫主任也提到這個部分那他們的確聽到那個聲音離辦公室有一段距離那目前他們最近可能會測網報告的距離不是用聽的"},{"start":8322.498,"end":8349.271,"text":"他們是先聽到聲音對 我說爆炸的距離不是用聽的對他今天一打過來你連跑都沒機會跑那目前的話呢就是說像我們剛剛博鳳說的我們其他六位的官員包含孫主任本人我們之前那個已經跟他們提到就是說那個撤離的路線是會往土耳其那主任他還有另外一條路線是往離海往北邊走那地方是相對來講安全的已經有安排有 有安排那主任他可能這一兩天就會動身往離海的方向去做一個自我就是說一個安全的一個處理的一個動作"},{"start":8350.131,"end":8358.554,"text":"好 那可見我們也知道那裡的態勢是非常緊張而且它不是現在才開始剛剛部長我們有提到從112年就開始可是我們在中東地區緊張態勢已經持續這麼久的時間外交部為什麼在本月初的時候公告我們啟動青年學子赴以色列度假打工這樣的一個申請的訊息我們的原因是什麼"},{"start":8375.783,"end":8391.892,"text":"就是我們就按照標準作業程序的判斷嘛那因為這個因為其他國家還是都維持包括像韓國、澳洲、紐西蘭所以我們怎麼樣跟國際同步那這個對台語關係也很重要可是並不代表說我們要去讓國人置入險境我們會"},{"start":8392.893,"end":8400.878,"text":"檢討情勢的變化所以後來會暫緩也是因為情勢有變化因為那時候還沒有發生戰爭發生戰爭之後我們就暫緩了可是如果部長你6月3號還在往官網上面今天如果有疏失我覺得我們可以勇敢的去面對而不是在這裡去說這些理由今天如果6月3號有人看到的時候部長聽我講完那個不是過不急你的孩子你會讓他去那裡嗎"},{"start":8421.292,"end":8431.944,"text":"你不是笑話嗎今天如果我們沒有充分掌握所有的孩子所有的國人如果你知道專業更不可以用這種小編你的小編都在上面寫什麼就這個問題請你尊重我外交部的同仁專業的判斷"},{"start":8436.429,"end":8443.492,"text":"他是網路語言外交部的官網可以發生網路語言嗎部長如果可以你如果知道是專業你更應該要這樣好好的我們本來應該好好的談這是一個非常嚴肅的問題你讓我們年輕人在沒有充分的資訊之下他們相信的會是外交部外交部在你的官網上面鼓勵我們所有的青年人去以色列還有這樣的"},{"start":8464.1,"end":8469.226,"text":"他來登記我們都還沒有在執行中你6月3號還在受理如果他報名了他6月10號要出門可以嗎有人請你了解外交的專業可以嗎 外交專業是什麼我要為我的同仁"},{"start":8478.797,"end":8480.017,"text":"這叫專業是讓我們的年輕人到一個以色列戰火衝刺的地方什麼叫誇張什麼叫誇張什麼叫扭曲事實你6月3號是不是有那一篇6月3號"},{"start":8501.205,"end":8506.108,"text":"你去查看看6月3號美國是什麼樣的等級什麼叫沒有發生戰爭你胡說八道尊重外交專業我們就是不認為你有外交專業如果今天要講到這樣我們今天已經被你害的是韓國的外交紐西蘭嗎"},{"start":8519.258,"end":8526.241,"text":"你看的是澳洲 紐西蘭如果他們已經有人犧牲了你還是讓他犧牲嗎你今天如果是專業部長今天如果你是專業你在之前就應該要探訪如果外交協議或者辦活動是你的主要重點你應該讓現在社會正氣所以年輕人要去外交要去度假打工那是雙方一個度假打工辦法的受理的時間"},{"start":8548.971,"end":8554.712,"text":"我們當然會因情勢做調整啊你6月3號 包括情勢的層級都依照國際的規範跟國際對接部長因為這樣會傷害國家我才會這樣子回應你部長 部長因為會傷害台語的關係我才會這樣講啊部長你傷害到什麼因為您的發言傷害到我們的外交關係你的外交關係是什麼以色列會在乎的如果你認為這樣會傷害你告訴大家我們會傷害什麼"},{"start":8578.121,"end":8586.771,"text":"因為當其他國家還維持跟以色列度假打工我們自己單方面去停止那個時候還沒有發生戰爭這會傷害我們產業關係部長 把他講清楚其他國家什麼時候把這個危險的等級換掉的"},{"start":8596.081,"end":8622.534,"text":"都是按照警示標準的調整這個程序就是這樣子部長什麼時候你是外交部長我一跟你講說6月1號的時候包括澳洲紐西蘭韓國等等跟以色列有度假打工的國家還是維持這個辦法的實施但是不代表我們要出發也不代表我們完成了審查我們國人他在乎的是因為有太多扭曲了我必須要說明因為這涉及到我們的外交"},{"start":8624.229,"end":8631.591,"text":"你讓我們的國人深入險境你還敢這樣說你還敢這樣說 你還敢這樣說你們執政以後丟了幾個邦交國然後又有洩密的問題你讓我們的年輕人深入險境讓我們的年輕人深入險境你的小編可以在網路上面這樣子的編冒險王 什麼叫冒險王"},{"start":8651.736,"end":8656.722,"text":"你的孩子你會這樣讓他去嗎你扭曲事實的話不會接受這個扭曲的啊什麼叫扭曲事實你到6月3號你的官網還沒換欸我們的網站最重要那時候還沒有發生以色列跟伊朗的戰事"},{"start":8666.786,"end":8670.468,"text":"我們根據警示在辦理 根據國際的規範與其他國家同步可恥 今天如果我們發現我們氣象報告說哪一個地方可能在禮拜六或禮拜天或下個禮拜會有暴風雨會有颱風的時候你會在那時候還鼓勵你的孩子下個禮拜去那裡辦活動這個禮拜去那裡辦錄影嗎"},{"start":8691.781,"end":8697.304,"text":"部長 將心比心你今天 你今天要站在這個位你今天要站在這個位你如果要站在這裡 做維委員在那裡爛掉我不是這樣的人 我也知道所以我們剛開始很理性的跟你談沒有傷害 你有傷害沒有傷害到什麼外交關係你告訴我 傷害到哪一個外交關係我們跟以色列簽了這樣一個度假打工"},{"start":8720.195,"end":8730.041,"text":"獨家老公你可不可以請黑熊學院的去他們的成員需要面對的因為他們現在在教我們所有的國人現在他們需要的是暫時的一些實務的經驗如果你這樣說你怕跟以色列傷害到這樣的協議就可以推這樣的活動沒有國際規範"},{"start":8744.489,"end":8747.87,"text":"國家的安全是一個外交部長掌握所有國際態勢除非你根本不在乎如果你不在乎才會繼續做這樣的事而且在國會殿堂還可以持續這樣講我剛剛舉例你應該很清楚如果今天"},{"start":8763.194,"end":8776.8,"text":"我們事實有一些處我必須說明對國家的外交關係會影響我也必須要澄清6月3號他就已經是這樣然後你們鼓勵我們的孩子去冒險就跟我剛剛講的如果已經有戰爭發生你已經來不及部長戰爭發生你已經來不及很遺憾我們國家的外交部長是你林佳龍"},{"start":8787.85,"end":8803.423,"text":"您的行為在傷害台灣的外交謝謝馬文欣委員的諮詢接下來我們現在重新宣告待會王宏威委員諮詢完畢之後休息五分鐘那繼續由葉延芷委員上台諮詢麻煩請外交部長 謝謝"},{"start":8822.689,"end":8849.306,"text":"部長我先來關心一下台美關稅談判就是其實最近消息非常的少那90天的那個暫停期大概是到7月8號就到了我是看到最近是外交部次長陳明齊他可能是談判團的代表之一他是在5月30號的時候媒體報導說有信心談到一個好完整又漂亮的協議他是非常充滿信心而且談到如果別人是10%的話我們是有機會可以談到10%以下"},{"start":8851.167,"end":8876.907,"text":"請問一下那個部長現在因為只剩下18天7月8號就到了嘛那目前大概我們跟美國談判的狀況是如何跟委員報告在曾立軍副院長的這個主持下目前台美有關於關稅的談判都順利進行中那這一方希望我們提出最好的方案我們也已經提出他們也覺得相當完整他希望我們提出對他們來說最好的方案對彼此"},{"start":8877.828,"end":8904.595,"text":"當然也要對我們最好那對我們好的地方在哪裡我們就是希望說透過這一次的這個關稅的談判包括我們能夠建構台美的這個經貿還有科技產業的合作 更緊密的關係那關稅的部分這樣 部長 因為你回答很空洞 我來問因為那個陳明祺也有提到透過談判希望能夠釐清美方具體的關切事項請問一下美方具體的關切事項是什麼"},{"start":8906.942,"end":8924.838,"text":"其實他們都有公開講至少除了關稅之外非關稅障礙包括出口管制包括投資包括參購既然都已經公開講了為什麼我們還不斷談判去釐清美方具體關切事項他們關切事項現在很具體了因為那是5月30號現在的情形應該是很多的進展譬如說是什麼"},{"start":8929.703,"end":8947.172,"text":"我覺得很奇怪一件事情比如說像日本跟美國談判他們很多細節其實他們國內大家都掌握例如說像美國跟日本現在就卡在汽車關稅而且日本很多東西是不讓的因為他們知道說會站在日本的角度去跟美國談判關稅"},{"start":8948.493,"end":8967.382,"text":"那有的時候你適時的揭露一些具體的細節讓國內可以討論實際上國內的民意也可以成為政府對外談判的一個籌碼跟後盾而不是說好像我們現在針對美國談判一切都是以美國為主美國要我們怎麼樣我們就怎麼樣沒有站在台灣的利益去做這個事情"},{"start":8967.922,"end":8996.263,"text":"那其實這個是沒有你現在就都不能講嘛都是講一些口號嘛空洞跟其他國家都不一樣嘛所以我們現在好像大家在等開盲盒一樣7月8號告訴大家到時候能夠接受不能接受也已經談完了其實我覺得這是一件很恐怖的事另外再問一下因為潘孟安總統府秘書長6月初的時候到美國參加一個氣候的一個能源永續能源會議嘛當時可能也有觸及到"},{"start":8997.438,"end":9020.848,"text":"阿拉斯加液化天然氣設施的投資案那這兩天我有看到總統府一直有消息放出來因為都是不具名啊就說 哎呀 潘孟安去啊有助深化台美關係進一步讓雙邊的關係更好但是我非常好奇一件事情就是政府有沒有評估過假設到時候要去投資阿拉斯加這個液化天然氣設施這個到底是好還是不好"},{"start":9021.854,"end":9047.89,"text":"不知道部長您個人看法因為在阿拉斯加州長三月來台灣參加美台商會的忘年會的時候其實跟中油就有簽一個合作的意向書會增加對美國台南機的採購也會評估投資我希望政府可以好好評估這件事情是美國有點明台灣、日本、韓國說希望投資這是一兆多的一個投資案"},{"start":9048.53,"end":9061.148,"text":"那台灣如果要投資的話大概要負擔大概一百億美金這是一些公開資訊講的是十分之一啦他們的提到的十分之一就是一兆四的話十分之一的話就是一千四百億嘛四十四億啦"},{"start":9064.173,"end":9070.061,"text":"44億美金啦我剛剛講台幣啦總投資額的4分之1是這個數字啦那問題是在這個...反正就是很大一筆錢啦就是大概100億美金你說44億美金嗎我按照他們提的方案的總額的資料我只要跟委員講這個數字"},{"start":9080.615,"end":9097.202,"text":"但是有一些資料是說一百億啦沒關係這個但不管怎麼樣都是一個很大的一筆錢可是我看到像在日本喔因為他有點名日本但日本其實國內對這個討論很熱烈而且很多人是持反對意見比如說上百個團體都有寫信給日本首相認為說這個投資案"},{"start":9098.783,"end":9122.381,"text":"是一個最昂貴的一個天然氣開發案而且它對於環境有很大破壞因為它從那個阿拉斯加從那邊拉一個線下來拉一個管線下來它必須要突破八百條河流還有三座山脈施工不易也會破壞很多野生動物的保護區會影響到一些動物的那個休息所以"},{"start":9124.427,"end":9138.486,"text":"國內是很反對日本的官員也多次提出不同的看法日本的保險公司說他們呼籲希望不要對類似的投資案做承保而且他們也希望銀行不要做融資所以這個案子在日本國內是討論很熱烈"},{"start":9140.368,"end":9161.858,"text":"在我們台灣呢 沒有任何的利弊得失的分析就是說 就像陳儒部長你講的我們已經簽了意向書了 好像一句話就帶過可是我們有沒有去評估 第一個 他到底有沒有破壞生態第二個 他這個投資 我們有沒有辦法回本如果沒有辦法回本 純粹是美國點名我們 我們就去投資那請問站在台灣的立場 我們換到什麼"},{"start":9163.427,"end":9191.71,"text":"外交或經貿都要以本國利益為出發不是說一直給現在我覺得台灣的政府都沒有看清楚川普的個性川普不是說你對他擺班的這個對他好然後讓他予取予求他就會對你比較好這一波美國跟各國談判我們都看得非常清楚可是我剛剛聽到部長您的回答都是說我們已經提出一個美方覺得很好的方案"},{"start":9192.35,"end":9199.422,"text":"或者是我們投資這個天然氣美國也會很高興好像都沒有站在台灣的角度去看這個事情有啦 這是前提啦"},{"start":9200.27,"end":9229.071,"text":"台灣優先啦那請問一下你們有沒有那部長因為這個投資天然氣我看到總統府潘孟安秘書長去的時候那你們也都很歡迎啊可不可以至少請政府提出一個分析報告出來嘛在投資上面還有就是因為接下來這個投資之後呢未來政府也要增加對美國天然氣的採購那對美國天然氣採購會不會又是變成說價格高運輸費然後又反過來發電成本提高我們電價又上漲"},{"start":9229.972,"end":9246.203,"text":"我覺得這一系列都要評估都要評估不是說每次都大外宣潘孟安去了好棒喔我們可以投資天然氣因為台美關係又更進一步好棒喔然後台美關稅談判好棒喔我們一定可以談出一個很棒的方案但是我們到底得到什麼"},{"start":9247.301,"end":9265.84,"text":"我們都不知道我是真的很希望政府那個部長啦因為你也算國安團隊一環啦新冒談判你們也有參與可不可以回去建議一下適時的揭露這談判的進度讓國內了解讓大家討論讓大家成為政府的後盾啦不要7月8號開盲盒啦可以嗎"},{"start":9267.176,"end":9277.512,"text":"您的意見我都會反映你也是部長你也可以有一定的決策權讓我講一下以阿拉斯加天然氣的採購跟投資你看最近中東戰爭"},{"start":9279.076,"end":9297.068,"text":"那能源需不需要有安全跟韌性你看喔 包括那個Duckworth這個參議員他來台灣喔他認為說只要是美國輸出的油氣美國他要保護他的航行安全我想這兩位人在這裡 就是說"},{"start":9300.751,"end":9305.035,"text":"這種屬於不只是能源經濟也是個安全議題所以我們怎麼樣站在國家最大的利益但是一定要尊重中油因為它作為採購中油也是配合國安團隊或什麼去投資所以我說你提出一個分析報告你可以把你的意見剛剛講的納進來我跟委員講其實中油評估已經好幾年了"},{"start":9326.372,"end":9348.421,"text":"因為我覺得大家也不要斷章取義因為這個是一個整體的計畫就國安的角度當然大家都支持但是其實比如說跟澳洲去買也是八天天然氣就到台灣他有很多替代方案所以實際上我覺得是需要一個完整評估啦然後適時揭露啦 好不好好 謝謝謝謝葉言之委員的上台質詢接下來由王宏威委員上台質詢"},{"start":9359.209,"end":9385.982,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請林佳龍部長好 委員好好 部長好剛才您回答馬文君委員的時候說外交是專業那特別提到因為大家都關注在6月3號外交部的這個官方網站裡面小編還說要冒險王那外交是專業那我想請問一下外交部有沒有得知"},{"start":9387.361,"end":9400.967,"text":"在美國在六月之前其實在今年年初曾經提出警告就是在伊朗跟以色列之間會發生空襲有沒有有這些資訊"},{"start":9402.692,"end":9418.908,"text":"呃 我們其實情報我們都有密切在掌握 有啊 總會有交換所以有沒有掌握 有沒有掌握 有沒有 但是對於 國旗日對於它發動戰爭 不懂不懂 有沒有嘛 我剛講說今年年初美國事實上已經釋出這個訊息也有警告 有沒有掌握其實 呃 有或沒有很簡單嘛"},{"start":9420.831,"end":9426.616,"text":"他就在戰爭中啊 包括...怎麼叫他們在戰爭中 如果他們在戰爭中你聽不聽得清楚小編還發這個就是去報險網嗎很簡單的問題嘛 有或者沒有我們都有掌握"},{"start":9435.373,"end":9463.354,"text":"怎麼掌握我要講就是外交事專業事實上中央社早在今年的二月份至少我沒有聽到任何的國安簡報對不對我也沒聽到外交簡報但是我們至少從媒體中央社在今年的年初的時候二月份就從華盛頓發出訊息說美國已經警告在數月之間伊朗跟以色列之間會發生空襲"},{"start":9465.185,"end":9473.934,"text":"好 這是中央社而他引述的都是美國的媒體都是大媒體包括華爾街日報 包括華盛頓郵報所以 部長啊我們為什麼在質疑你們6月3號"},{"start":9481.226,"end":9485.847,"text":"小編還讓我們的青年去冒險因為在之前其實在國際之間早就都有這樣的訊息我們如果沒有掌握啊那真的是笑死人但是如果外交部有掌握的話為什麼還會有那一篇發文這是我們今天所討論的外交部的專業到底在哪裡一種是你們沒有掌握沒有掌握的話外交部該死有掌握"},{"start":9509.315,"end":9513.278,"text":"外交部如果有掌握運出去那樣發文那麼外交部該打屁股你有掌握你還讓小編去發這個文而且你在這邊還強烈的幫小編辯護所以才會讓大家覺得莫名其妙啊還有部長啊你動不動就要說不要傷害就是我們的對外關係台灣的外交我們知道台灣外交非常艱難但是不要隨便的去扣在野黨帽子那我就請問一下喔"},{"start":9537.287,"end":9564.605,"text":"那個部長今年在年初的時候呢應該是去年年底今年年初我們通過通過了這個海關進口稅則這裡面呢對於巴拉圭的五穀豬肉開放進口對於他們的蜂蜜是降稅還有一些他們的農產品都給予甚至有些是給予免關稅還有相關的降稅"},{"start":9567.928,"end":9590.824,"text":"我想請問一下這個內容是不是我們也為了鞏固巴拉圭之間的關係就是我們進行了台巴之間的相關的經濟合作效益這是不是這些相關內容因為這個還是要農業部主政單位他們的評估我們是尊重不過就外交上來講促進台巴之間的貿易關係這是會有幫助的"},{"start":9593.913,"end":9609.96,"text":"这个立法过程呢我不晓得一部长现在全推给那个推给农业部也很奇怪来我告诉各位这个海关进口税则行政院喊请立法院来审议它的修正背景"},{"start":9611.24,"end":9633.469,"text":"開宗明義就是我們中華民國與巴拉圭共同簽就是經濟合作協定就是告訴你什麼時候簽署什麼時候生效他就把這些所有這個簽署協定的相關的這個程序然後期望來由立法院來做海關境的稅責修正所以呢這裡面當然"},{"start":9634.89,"end":9651.715,"text":"主要是牽涉就是進口巴拉圭的相關的農產品還要給予降稅所以我們立法院是完全沒有表決對不對因為這個大家都能夠同意就是我們要鞏固跟我們的邦交國之間的關係我們邦交國也沒剩幾個國家好結果呢因為現在這個稅則通過了結果我們的政府呢農業部竟然去告訴我們的豬農"},{"start":9665.051,"end":9670.336,"text":"說為什麼要進口巴拉圭的五穀豬肉呢因為豬農反彈啊豬農我們不曉得原來這之前都沒有跟豬農事先溝通欸都沒有跟豬農事先溝通然後說這個呢是國民黨同意的"},{"start":9683.479,"end":9701.237,"text":"然後我們就很傻眼啊我們就很傻眼部長這一黨難不難為啊如果我們不同意傷害外交關係如果我們同意這又是變成是國民黨要進口巴拉圭的這個豬肉怎麼樣"},{"start":9705.34,"end":9727.962,"text":"橫豎都會給我們丟帽子嗎因為委員我是第一次聽到的那我為什麼在這邊質詢我們這個海關進口稅我都通過了嘛對不對我為什麼要在這邊質詢我要確認部長你到底有沒有掌握我到現在為止我就覺得你掌握事情太少了都不敢有肯定句連我們已經通過的海關進口稅人都沒有肯定句你要多用功一點所以我確定"},{"start":9729.944,"end":9748.084,"text":"我們通過的海關進口稅則針對相關巴拉圭的農產品不管是開放進口或者是相關的降稅是不是在台巴之間的經濟合作協定裡面我們所協議的事項是不是對"},{"start":9752.892,"end":9770.776,"text":"所以這是配合外交嘛我就是要外交部這一句話我要講的是我們支持外交但是最後不要這樣子嘛每次都這樣子人牽手牽手然後背後下毒手回到地方跟豬農講為什麼進口這個巴拉圭的農產品呢全部都是國民黨是不是"},{"start":9773.397,"end":9775.559,"text":"所以拜託我們外交很困難但是呢要負起這個相關的責任來也請我們的政府不要把這種只要人家豬農有反彈你就隨便推責任好不好這一點也請外交部回去跟農業部講農業部不要當小孬孬啊"},{"start":9793.95,"end":9799.575,"text":"農業部在上面通通告訴你啊很好啊對我們的豬農沒有影響啊臺灣的豬肉非常好啊通通沒有問題啊怎麼回過頭來跑去跟國內的豬農把責任全部推給在野黨呢也拜託部長能夠回去反映謝謝謝謝王宏偉委員的諮詢那現在我們休息五分鐘五分鐘之後繼續詢答"},{"start":10172.53,"end":10175.996,"text":"現在開始開會我們請林彥秀委員上台質詢"},{"start":10189.806,"end":10216.163,"text":"謝謝主席 部長我好像這一屆第一次跟你打訊號謝謝委員部長 我關心的議題目前以疫的衝突目前是持續的升級現在看起來好像沒有降溫的跡象所以有幾件事情跟我們相關的是我關注關心的就是說以色列的旅遊警示目前我們仍舊沒有升級我們目前還是停留在橙色還沒有到紅色的警戒 為什麼"},{"start":10220.057,"end":10235.589,"text":"就是依照標準數位程序來做判斷那因為國際上也有很多國家也是就是列為橙色因為它的各種警示的內容我們要去看其實我們的橙色其實相當於接近紅色對啦 但是"},{"start":10238.567,"end":10257.675,"text":"一般民眾就看不到你知道嗎因為我們看新聞如果多關注一些國際新聞我們會覺得未來有可能會擴大所以兩邊的無論是我們青年打工的部分國人旅遊的部分或者甚至是有經貿往來的一些台商們"},{"start":10259.301,"end":10276.113,"text":"他就會看到說現在已經是紅色警戒橙色接近紅色 因為你在講橙色紅色你覺得已經差不多但是你覺得仍舊對我們來說還是有模糊的地方你直接跟他講紅色他就很清楚沒有 紅色要去執行的話你要全面撤離"},{"start":10278.983,"end":10291.928,"text":"因為在以色列情形很特別 因為他們常年都是在戰爭威脅下那他們有應變 他們有做好很好的這一些安全的措施所以我們是 陳澈就是避免前往 不要再去了但是站在那邊"},{"start":10292.928,"end":10308.443,"text":"居住的人他們要撤離我們也會協助我清楚我們會給予協助但我們並不知道有多少國人或青年打工什麼時候要去或者是旅遊有沒有人要去我們沒有辦法完全掌握那個數字跟要去的地點"},{"start":10308.763,"end":10318.252,"text":"我們對於我們有這個所謂的登陸所以在兩百多人都是長年我們都因為好沒關係部長因為我時間很短因為我是外國文匯的部長我是很善意的啦所以我只把我的問題凸顯出來我們青年打工的計畫目前是暫緩還沒有下架嘛你只是喊暫緩"},{"start":10332.828,"end":10342.42,"text":"因為我們的實施日跟以色列先前談好那個時間因為那個時候還沒有發生這次伊朗跟以色列的戰爭有多少人報名?零人那他們那邊有沒有人報名要來台灣?也是零"},{"start":10347.967,"end":10371.283,"text":"都是零好那這個部分我清楚了解但是我覺得目前官網還有留著這件事情所以我覺得後面你可以掛號就是說因為目前那邊的情勢狀況不清楚你要解釋清楚因為我不知道後面會不會有人報名我們已經告訴國人不要前往了那因為網站"},{"start":10373.665,"end":10383.914,"text":"網..網站上只是寫還..還掛在那邊只是寫狀態但是是不是完全撤離齁因為這涉及到很複雜對這我知道但是你後..你下面可能要做更多的說明這是我要提醒你的地方齁那.."},{"start":10386.195,"end":10405.875,"text":"打工的這個公告從上網到撤銷總共歷時11天那你剛剛跟我講說沒有人報名那我現在關注另外第二個點就是說我們目前我們跟以色列那邊有雙邊的協定包括在經濟教育跟經貿的部分跟資安的部分其實都有很多合作的往來"},{"start":10406.696,"end":10417.457,"text":"那請問這34項雙邊的協議會不會因為戰事的升溫有哪些是受到影響影響後續我們是做什麼樣的考量跟補助或措施"},{"start":10419.043,"end":10442.704,"text":"你有沒有盤點我們都有根據現在情勢針對雙邊的交流包括訪問我們在做一些檢討包括經貿包括金融包括科技包括資安因為相對你的警示層級提高的話有一些事項就會可能會那有一些台商的往來可能因為現在的戰事暫緩有沒有這樣的狀況你有沒有充分的掌握有"},{"start":10443.405,"end":10455.293,"text":"因為台商在那邊其實很多時候定居在那裡甚至婚姻甚至有他們自己其實就像有些已經幾乎等於這類人了我都了解我都善意啦但是我只要盤點你有沒有掌握這些狀況包括兩邊生意往來的或資安的有沒有受到影響我們現在給予什麼樣的協助你有沒有去盤點出來可不可以有一份完整的報告提供給本席因為戰爭的警示的層級還有這些旅遊我們來提供"},{"start":10474.445,"end":10500.993,"text":"那另外就是說我們在2023年11月份的時候當時以色列受到衝擊的時候我們有給捐贈50萬美金的部分那外交部目前無論對以色列或伊朗我們鼓勵台灣人應該反國之外我們其他幾乎其實都沒有再進一步的表態或具體的表示那對於目前的狀況我們整體行政院也好外交部有什麼樣的做法"},{"start":10501.929,"end":10521.142,"text":"有 我們其實對像醫院或者是學校的這一些我們的這個援助雪中送炭 以色列人是非常的感謝跟感動那我們駐那邊的大使 李雅萍大使幾乎現在跟以色列的來往包括政府還有國會我知道 這個我新聞都可以看到"},{"start":10522.723,"end":10548.061,"text":"我們目前外交部只呼籲相關兩邊保持冷靜保持自治那外交部除了撤僑之外你還會不會有任何具體的表態跟表示除了對我們國人撤僑或幫助協助是我剛剛問的另外一部分你會用書面回我我們在加強跟以色列的交流合作有很大的提升因為這個中東的戰爭另外就是因為伊朗背後跟中國的關係那以色列更確認跟台灣"},{"start":10550.042,"end":10562.654,"text":"我們不只是理念相近而且利益一致所以台語關係的提升很快速而且是範圍非常的廣這在外交上是很重要所以我們任何的一個行為啊我們都要非常注意到對台語關係的影響當然對台語關係的影響對但是對於這個整個戰兩邊的戰爭的態度具體的"},{"start":10570.842,"end":10590.42,"text":"我們目前沒有具體的表態我們只有呼籲兩邊冷靜但是我們無論怎麼樣對外做說明可能都影響的整體包括兩岸國際整個關係都包含在裡面我只是要問你你還會再有進一步的表態嗎我沒有要你怎麼表態但是我問你說你會不會做什麼樣具體的表態"},{"start":10591.481,"end":10607.266,"text":"我們目前還在密切觀察整個戰事可能的演變會不會升高會不會是有談判我們現在先關心的是國人另外就是我們跟台籍關係的維繫至於說其他我們會滾動式的去檢討"},{"start":10609.439,"end":10629.571,"text":"國安會議的層級去做處理討論其實昨天總統也已經都有召開過國安高層會議我們都密切注意跟做好各種的因應高層會議一週幾次 國安會議一週幾次 有沒有加開會議其實包括今天行政院以及其他的包括我想除了外交部其他部會都在開會因應最新情勢的變化"},{"start":10630.211,"end":10638.835,"text":"對 因為這整體的情勢背後也都會影響兩岸的關係我要提醒 謝謝部長好 謝謝委員謝謝林恩秀委員的質詢接下來由張啟凱委員上台質詢"},{"start":10662.766,"end":10667.251,"text":"我上次也很肯定你我看你今天早上特別說為了以色列跟伊朗親自衝突要開國安會議"},{"start":10682.972,"end":10698.618,"text":"你說針對那個石油跟天然氣的這個價格行政院長應該今天,因為我雖然在這裡沒有開院會,我都有掌握啊他已經有所裁示市長這次這個衝突啊,彰顯了我們要好好去重視我們的錯誤的能源政策保廷先生,我們現在天然氣佔我們所有發電的佔比多少?"},{"start":10706.892,"end":10716.509,"text":"這個朝五成邁進不錯 蠻精準的 谷泥47現在核冷廢掉之後已經將近五成了那這次這個金色衝突就看到了"},{"start":10717.571,"end":10746.132,"text":"第一個石油跟天然氣在飆漲嘛所以你們要開國安會議嘛這是第一次嘛第二次也是很重要的啊你有沒有發現烏俄戰爭的時候就炸那個天然氣的儲存槽啊對不對是那這是一樣啊你看這個以色列馬上就打的也是對對不對能源跟通訊啊大概是戰爭發生的時候就是第一集啊大概關鍵基礎設施所以你要開火兩個重點第一這個能源政策要好好去想一下你高度依賴天然氣這本身是個問題"},{"start":10747.384,"end":10755.328,"text":"那第二個,上次我肯定你就是高關稅這個談判裡面我們要找到美國願意賣給我們,而且是我們要的嘛會跟我們有個共識,是你說你爭取要跟美國買核能的技術跟他們的設備,對不對沒有啦,我是覺得應該是先解決核廢料其實美國、法國他們都有很先進可以處理核廢料"},{"start":10772.637,"end":10790.412,"text":"因為AIT處長鼓勵人說三次他就是說在核能的技術還有包括核會的處理他們要幫忙他已經講了三次了到後來他受不了他推特上面他自己都還貼上去你不是說要去反應嗎你贊成你沒有去反應我有反應啦美國人應該很高興啊"},{"start":10794.616,"end":10803.702,"text":"因為你賣給我們 我們第一個我們這個逆差就可以 我們賺到錢就減少了所以採購是縮短貿易對我們的電力有幫助然後核電也有技術 項目之一 採購有齁 工廠到底怎樣啦 應該是華爺啊 這個有主管機關啦負責啦 經濟部或者是這個跟這個好 從這次的以色列跟伊朗的這個金氏衝突我們看到兩個很重大歧視 第一個天然氣占比太高 這個抽了能源政策要去調整"},{"start":10823.573,"end":10850.693,"text":"第二個趕快再推動核電特別是美國已經主動開口了要賣給我們核電的技術跟設備包括你剛才說的核威力要處理我覺得委員剛剛提到一點除了這個能源結構以外我們這個天然氣跟油大量的依賴中東這次也說明了這是個風險所以我們能夠增加對美國的採購氣跟油也有增加能源韌性所以這個是國安的一部分"},{"start":10850.993,"end":10871.223,"text":"我贊成啦,你剛剛提到的,不過我跟你講美國現在那個,聽說成本比較高啦,感覺價格會良好嗎?它量大之後,價格就會下來,這個是...量大一點,然後要降下來,像這個保健公可能要比現在的,我們是所有天然氣買的占比,10%是從美國來,那以後可能會變20%或30%,那量就跟你講,保健公不能講,量大了,價格就要降,不能夠一兩倍價格,這樣不行"},{"start":10873.664,"end":10888.064,"text":"所以除了採購如果我們投資的話我們就變成就是會反映在我們未來也有一定的籌碼我們贊成跟美國買天然氣可是價格不能太高來 我們來談一個馬紹爾總統變成漏湯機的事情"},{"start":10892.236,"end":10910.063,"text":"這台鐵到底是外交部的疏忽還是總統府的不對跟委員報告這是總統府第三局的業務但是我是會代為說明我認為真的到他走到最後才突然間有一下雨而且真的他已經走到已經都進場然後已經在落場因為唱完國歌之後他要走回來的時候突然"},{"start":10917.346,"end":10932.794,"text":"有一個大雨 陣雨啦你看馬紹爾那個總統你看就是最後那一段你看那個頭起起那個是多大的雨然後你看這樣很不禮貌啦不是 我覺得委員齁如果您有可以我用一分鐘時間說明一下齁因為他們馬紹爾這個海部總統自己有發聲明喔"},{"start":10936.055,"end":10956.213,"text":"他自己有說明其實這完全沒有私理而且對他們來講這個有一個突然間的陣語這也是一種就是他們在他們文化裡面是代表下雨是一線就是這個所謂的這個好的祝福但我們不去講這個我講的是說他的標準作業程序其實他從車子到然後進場"},{"start":10959.296,"end":10982.737,"text":"到唱國歌然後這個三軍儀隊李炮都完了他在做閱兵的時候在走最後彎回來的那一段突然間有個陣雨這個其實是標準作業程序就是把它走完以前也是這個樣子所以外面的人因為沒有去了解這整個過程就造成誤會好像我們故意要去漏這個雨然後很失禮我們又好像引以為疑"},{"start":10984.038,"end":10990.945,"text":"這個實際上是個好事 國進黨賴清德賴總統最近出訪的話 您的語音會這樣講嗎其實有兩個問題嘛 第一個是你氣象報告的掌握這是一個問題嘛第二個你隨時要應變啊 現在總統出來說的是什麼因為三軍儀隊都是沒有拿雨傘的 跟穿雨衣的在現場 這是兩國的國事訪問耶"},{"start":11005.419,"end":11020.926,"text":"所以其實這個就是標準作為澄清我為什麼說我說外交是專業有一些批評我必須要澄清是因為我覺得我們看專業啦 保定你幫人要辯護啦 不然被困在外面來 這是第三局的業務啦2017年 來來來 保定你看一下看來看來 你當然有專業 我知道這也是專業啦2017年蔡英文總統抵達荒都拉斯的時候 進行經理 你看我們去繞路經理上面當然是可以撐傘的 為什麼不行"},{"start":11031.96,"end":11049.585,"text":"你講一部分的專業 可是更重要的專業跟尊重 專業跟尊重就是像這樣蔡英文總統沒有被淋雨嘛 我也很滿意啊 賴清德總統沒有淋到雨是不是這樣 如果有問題就要去解決問題 不要一直用專業這個名詞這個也是專業啊 洪都道是人家專不專業這兩個都是專業 情況不一樣 都處理得很好"},{"start":11054.578,"end":11072.426,"text":"不過至少不要讓我們總統出去淋雨啦好不好沒有我現在是要說明就是說那天的國事訪問的整個軍理過程都合乎規定而且雙方面都認為這樣是很正常那至於說外面如果斷章取義我作為外交部長我必須替總統府第三局來說"},{"start":11073.046,"end":11077.928,"text":"我們在講說這是天上的祝福嘛這個就是現場的時候喊你總統講的話因為我跟他也很熟他也用這樣的話講所以我們才會隱據來作為一個說明好啦 你至少也承認人家國外的專業嘛 對不對我們自己如果真的有失誤這兩個都是專業 這沒有衝突不過你到底總是不好 對OK 好啦"},{"start":11097.018,"end":11108.245,"text":"早上我看很多人在問你這個去以色列度假打工這個事情你剛講的一個計畫很重要啊以色列就是一個長年戰爭威脅的地方嘛他們的避難設施隨時那個警示 隨時的通訊"},{"start":11113.228,"end":11141.263,"text":"其實他們的狀況我們不能夠用外人去理解在那邊生活不管是在那邊已經定居或是工作或在那邊求學的人他的選擇就是我們必須如果你要強迫他撤離因為他跟伊朗的情形不一樣那邊國際上也是就是維持度假打工而且都要有受理這個不是說一公佈就一堆人去啊所以不能夠把這個程序壓縮好像我們鼓勵大家去戰地"},{"start":11142.323,"end":11149.087,"text":"冒著風險,這個不好啦,因為這個會造成不慰這個之前簽嘛,有生肖日嘛我們就按照這個,因為你突然間還沒有進入到更高的警示等級你自己單方面去做一些行動,這在外交上是很不合宜的啦現在問題出在哪裡啦,就是2023年12月27號要簽這個備忘錄的時候"},{"start":11168.658,"end":11183.66,"text":"那時候中東的情勢應該已經是緊張了吧那時候以色列跟以哈應該就已經開打了吧我肯定 我知道我們的外交人員是辛苦我們外交處境也是困難的要多一些交流 這個我們都肯定可是在交流跟國人生命安全之間"},{"start":11184.858,"end":11189.782,"text":"他是2023年10月10月7號發生戰爭嘛那我意思是說其實這種常年在威脅之下就像我們不要讓國際人認為說台灣很危險都不能來一樣我說這個怎麼樣去符合實際啊但是我意思是說他們的這些避難或安全的措施做得非常好全社會防禦任性 全民皆兵"},{"start":11209.82,"end":11228.491,"text":"我們不要是用外人 因為我們任何一個動作都會讓他覺得說 那以後我們台灣咧只要有一個什麼樣的中共的動作 那全世界人都不要來嘛這個都是我們有長遠的思考啊 而且是對等的第一 我們台灣比以色列安全很多啦第二個 當然我知道我們外國人也很辛苦當然台灣第一 東京人交流比較推的部長我今天要跟你討論的是 當初要簽這個備忘錄的時候以哈戰爭 那時候中東已經緊張了所以要簽這個要更謹慎 我不是反對簽啦"},{"start":11238.476,"end":11257.726,"text":"就是安全一定要注意啦這第一點 第一點 我跟你說你的這個度假打工的這個還在你們這個網站上面耶你至少蓋一個暫緩吧或者做一些說明吧因為它暫緩啊我剛才在看 我上去看它還是你的推特上面還有 有貼暫緩的"},{"start":11259.759,"end":11286.941,"text":"對 就是停止啦你上面蓋一個暫緩嘛要嘛就先撤下來是個辦法啦好不好沒有沒有沒有其實雙方面簽的東西在那裡就是在那裡那因為行政程序在辦理的時候我們已經...所以暫緩 東京市要繼續推動可以當然可是最重要的就是國人安全還是第一啦好對不對 國人安全第一個第二個 既然已經是現在暫緩要把它講清楚好不好是 石原董同仁參考一下委員剛剛的提醒謝謝我們張啟凱委員的諮詢接下來有林育君委員上台諮詢"},{"start":11302.895,"end":11305.682,"text":"謝謝主席有請外交部林部長"},{"start":11309.192,"end":11317.258,"text":"部長早今天每個委員質詢都是有關於以色列和伊朗兩國的軍事衝突的升級還有讓火藥庫支撐的中東的局勢都是更加的緊張尤其是對於我們國的以色列和伊朗之間其實我們比較關心的是它的安全狀況上週五6月13號以色列和伊朗兩國發生衝突的時候導致旅遊的安全風險都提高了"},{"start":11336.913,"end":11342.698,"text":"當天外交部當然就馬上調升了這兩國的旅遊警示的等級嘛所以兩國現在都已經是關閉了空域這樣想讓離境的外國人士當然也包括我們的台灣的國人無法順利搭乘飛機離開那我想要請教部長一下就是剛剛部長也有答覆其他的委員說兩國的衝突發生到今天所以我們在以色列和伊朗國人都已經持續的在清查嘛然後"},{"start":11364.994,"end":11371.639,"text":"當然剛才有說清查到目前的話伊朗是只有9個人但是3個人已經離境了但是還留在以色列的有294個人但是高達了274個國人滯留在以色列納亞才離開了20個人這樣像這樣的話我想了解一下就是說這些人是他們不願意離開還是離開不了還有我們"},{"start":11388.992,"end":11393.455,"text":"滯留在以色列的外交人員目前有多少人還有萬一兩國真的發生了戰爭那請問台灣目前有沒有撤僑計畫的一些具體的方案呢好 謝謝委員如同您上面顯示的在以色列有第四級紅色地區跟第三級橙色的地區"},{"start":11408.524,"end":11433.645,"text":"那紅色就是要禁書離境然後橙色是避免前往那剛剛委員講說為什麼現在還有274名在這個以色列因為我講那個情形就有些人已經是定居在那裡甚至結婚生子有些人是長年在那邊工作那有一些人是留學有些人是商務他們其實都很瞭解以色列的情況我們會都有建黨也都有聯繫可是我們如果說從外面要求他馬上就撤離"},{"start":11436.447,"end":11461.327,"text":"這個是 說實在 他們的現況比我們了解他們都知道怎麼去避難那以色列很長的生活在這樣的威脅之下我們也尊重 我們也支持所以當然我們在講說我們要馬上怎麼樣在搶先的在戰爭發生之前就去宣布可能啦 在他認為是說好像我們把它視為這個不能夠居住的地方所以布載的意思是說他們沒有想要離開的意思就對了很多人都"},{"start":11461.767,"end":11484.704,"text":"要繼續留在那裡但是如果這個戰爭繼續衝突升高也可能會離開那我們都做好應變也都跟他們聯繫中幾乎每一個人我們都有通訊我們在駐以色列的大使館我們的代表處真的做到大家都很稱讚就是每一個人都當作自己在家人一樣在看待所以當我們在處理這種外交關係上為什麼會有一些反應啊"},{"start":11485.964,"end":11505.62,"text":"我們在指導的時候 必須要了解在現地第一場比如剛剛有提到說 我們的伊朗現在是這個冒險中心在那邊他在保護我們的國人 九個已經撤了三個 另外三個已經要撤然後他也準備要撤 可是他可能要留到最後面但是如果危險 我們也是會跟經濟部協調 他也要趕快走"},{"start":11508.863,"end":11537.524,"text":"那這個也都有方案可是那個時機的掌握我們必須尊重第一線因為它才有那個情報所以我們很感謝各界的指導可是在很多的判斷上必須要有正確的情報好 那我也希望外交部就是說也可以有辦法確認說他們都是在那邊非常的平安還有他們如果是怎麼樣能跟台灣有順暢的溝通管道呢還是目前外交部有沒有透過某些管道然後你們可以了解兩國現在目前的情況"},{"start":11538.385,"end":11557.704,"text":"哪兩國 你說台灣跟以色列還是跟伊朗都是因為以色列我們很密切而且我們的情報交換跟各駐以色列大使之間橫向的非常平凡因為這個是面對到每一個國家要不要撤僑或者是要不要在那邊怎麼去應變那至於伊朗因為我們沒有撤代表處只有冒險"},{"start":11560.347,"end":11580.1,"text":"那我們是用這個杜拜去轄管所以這個時候我們當然需要趕快撤離這九個人已經撤了三個三個正在撤離中還有三個我們也建議啦其實安全第一雖然當事人可能有這個責任感想要去幫助所有人都撤離在撤但我覺得"},{"start":11581.321,"end":11601.473,"text":"這個我們已經都通知了也都安排了撤離的路徑那請大家趕快撤離好我現在還是說請外交部就是說還是要密切的關注啦這個兩國最新的局勢還有提供國人必要的協助因為不要跟以前一樣其實以前常常有聽到說我國政府無法保護旅外的台灣人的時候"},{"start":11602.774,"end":11606.399,"text":"國人常常都會求助一些中共我希望不要有這種事情再發生接下來我想請教部長一下有關共諜的問題就是部長你知道吳釗燮擔任外交部長的任內我們失去了幾個邦交國嗎"},{"start":11617.415,"end":11621.237,"text":"總八個那請教部長一下你擔任部長後有沒有重新清查還是有沒有重新了解過去這些和人節長時間擔任前部長的機要秘書的期間究竟主要的工作內容所涉及的外交重要的文件有哪些還有是否已經有影響到我們的外交關係還是國家安全的還有外交部隊這一次部內發生了共諜洩密的事情後來有沒有任何積極的防範"},{"start":11645.13,"end":11673.028,"text":"還有未來重要的邦加國我們的機密要如何管理因為發生一個危機我們要做除了去做應變以外就要做損害控管而且要做復原因為我本身也算是比較國安系統的背景所以這件事情也還沒有結束所以我們必須要啟動行政調查也是在檢調他們去查了一些資料我們都配合可是我們自己行政體系尤其外交很多的機敏性這個事情的衝擊"},{"start":11674.79,"end":11685.021,"text":"可能是還有在發展中所以我有要求我們外交部成立一個包括除了我們政風處之外有一個小組現在就是在做"},{"start":11687.004,"end":11695.231,"text":"徹底的釐清之後去做損害控管跟這個危機的復原您剛剛提到就是說因為這涉及到跟我們來往的很多的還有外交的洩密其實是非常重大的部長你也知道對不對現在回歸來講說這件事情的發生我想請問一下部長就是前部長吳釗燮他當時做一個首長的時候他現在又是高居國安會的秘書長這個位置其實他負責的是國家安全的大事"},{"start":11716.187,"end":11719.068,"text":"但是我們來訪觀這件事情他當初身為購諜的老闆是不是應該要有肩膀承擔這個責任但是部長你也知道到現在無債縣秘書長到現在還沒有接受任何的調查甚至都不願意出席立法院邀請列席的會議接受監督你覺得這樣合理嗎還有"},{"start":11736.115,"end":11742.881,"text":"是不是部長你是不是可以好好的發揮一下你的影響力啊勵勸一下吳釗燮要有擔當要擔起這個責任向外界說明呢如果他真的一直覺得他覺得很委屈的話那是不是他應該出來面對對外公開的說明而不是讓大家一直誤會他誤會執政黨甚至最主要是又誤會了整個外交部那部長你認為呢"},{"start":11762.077,"end":11788.485,"text":"我想立法院副監督職者你們的意見我想當事人也都會聽到檢調現在也在 已經起訴了幾位 這四位後續司法單位也會針對這個事情我想我們就配合司法來辦理可是在行政的層次我做一個外交部長我必須做好損害的控管"},{"start":11789.385,"end":11805.751,"text":"避免這個傷害持續可能會影響後續我們的外交工作所以當事人他怎麼去面對這個國會的監督或社會各界對於政治責任的期待那這個我不是當事人我無法替他回答"},{"start":11806.491,"end":11814.901,"text":"但是我想您的意見包括立法院希望就是說有機會能夠說明我想就是尊重立法院的職權好 謝謝"},{"start":11821.99,"end":11840.857,"text":"謝謝林益勤委員的質詢接下來有蘇清淺委員蘇清淺委員蘇清淺委員不在那已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議由陳冠廷委員提書面質詢請"},{"start":11843.038,"end":11854.87,"text":"列入這個記錄並刊登公報為素面及口頭執行為為其答覆部分或要求補充者補充資料者請依素面以兩週內答覆現在"},{"start":11860.41,"end":11881.622,"text":"接下來我們來進行討論四項第一項外交部主管預算對國際之關懷救助及重建中業務費凍結300萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍結外交部以書面報告送交本會請問各位委員是否同意解凍同意那同意凍結提報院會維持繼續凍結"},{"start":11892.357,"end":11919.559,"text":"提報宴會啊 對那第二個是討論討論事項第二項的第三項處理外交部主管預算凍結案提出書面報告並經同意後使得動之共兩案外交部以書面報告送交本會請各委員是否有同意解凍好 經同意動之提報宴會"},{"start":11923.854,"end":11927.54,"text":"那本日議程所列四項經已處理完畢現在上會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}