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是我們現在請考試院秘書長 考選部長及全序部長好 請秘書長還有兩位部長委員長"},{"start":24.205,"end":42.011,"text":"早 兩位部長早MU長我想請教一下就是我國的這個學子報考國考的人數逐年的下滑那從考選部的資料顯示報考高普考的人數從105年的95,062人報考到114年只剩下57,707人MU長您對於報考人數的這個下降的趨勢您怎麼"},{"start":52.074,"end":72.367,"text":"是 我們了解這個狀況 當然也會很重視這個事情對 那如何重視呢其實我們就針對這個國考人數下降的部分我們覺得就是說第一個就是考試 如果剛剛有講過考試真的讓硬職者付出很大的求職成本"},{"start":73.248,"end":88.247,"text":"那我們現在面對民間的人才的需求的競爭的確是處於比較不利的局面所以第一個我想就考試的怎麼樣更友善一點那我們就在推動高補考檢科降低這個考試的障礙因為考生其實為了要考考試都要去補習班都要花很多錢"},{"start":89.088,"end":113.79,"text":"那第二個部分就是說我們也就只等調高的部分那個其實全局部都有在逐步的通盤檢討啦那其實最主要還是說哪些不足而入取的類科是最需要去緊急搶救的部分這個部分我們都有在跟行政院的相關部門組成工作圈來做各個面向的其實我想考試的你說科目減少事實上過去啦過去要報考這個國考其實"},{"start":116.292,"end":130.738,"text":"這個更為困難啦所以但是大家還是真香的來去也報考我們的這個國家考試就是因為以前大家都認為公務人員就是金飯碗那有很好的保障那現在就是覺得相較於民間的這個公司我們"},{"start":131.978,"end":158.458,"text":"退休之後的保障呢縮減了很多所以讓他們不願意來報考國考才是我覺得才是最重要的原因所以針對應屆畢業生報考的部分就107年還有一萬六千多名的新生新鮮人報考但113年只剩下三千元只剩下三千人那請問一下114年應屆畢業生有多少人報考這個我請劉部長來說是請部長"},{"start":161.024,"end":179.246,"text":"就114年的應屆畢業生報考的有多少不好意思 應屆畢業生我可能還要再查一下因為到去年就只剩3000人所以今年的應屆畢業生報考的可能相對更少喔那所以這個部分可能是不是再麻煩部長給本席辦公室相關的資料因為我這邊要陳述的就是說"},{"start":180.607,"end":199.367,"text":"卡西文部當然有提到說報考的人數減少是因為少子化還有現在外面的景氣好但是為什麼是在108年會出現斷崖式的下跌是不是因為107年年改上路之後所以造成讓年輕人看到政府帶頭毀約的負面示範"},{"start":201.989,"end":223.862,"text":"大學的畢業生才不願意報考公務員我跟委員報告就是說如果我們觀察考生人數變化看得久一點的話最高峰大概出現在民國一百年那前後三年那之後就急劇的下降我想跟當時的這個民間年輕人的薪資跟求職的困難產業西進有一些人多少都有些關係"},{"start":225.263,"end":251.369,"text":"那您剛剛講是不是年改的因素我要講的就是說大概從101年開始它就急劇的下滑那一直到106年但是年改的因素一定也佔了很大一個部分它有沒有影響對 所以我說應該說我覺得不報考的原因有很多那您說其實就待遇面我覺得那個都是相對應它跟民間的時間的吸引力我想我們現在針對這個報考人數的這個報考人數的逐年下降"},{"start":251.989,"end":271.557,"text":"我們應該要提出一個務實的方法除了您剛剛講的報告科目減少其實不是主要的原因而是要怎麼增加他身為公務員的薪資待遇還有他的優越感讓他願意來為國家報效而不是只是看薪資的部分我覺得這個部分才是應該我們要探討的一個重點"},{"start":272.597,"end":289.134,"text":"那當然在這邊也要特別的再請教一下我們的這個全旭部長部長我們現在就是要修改考積法的這個上限嘛那因為您也曾經講過現在的考積法已經沒有獎勵效果所以你們現在想要修改"},{"start":289.494,"end":316.739,"text":"不過以往我們的考機大概就是說真的很多單位都是照分配的輪著輪著你今年甲等你明年乙等但是呢因為這樣的關係就讓很多想要就是認真優秀的公務員員他覺得可能我現在好每年也是有機會輪到乙等而不是都甲等所以您現在說放寬甲等的一個這樣子上限可是現在看起來如果假設到時候一些長官"},{"start":317.839,"end":340.949,"text":"都不願意當壞人然後全部都假等的話那要怎麼來去杜絕這樣的一個狀況委員講的都是正確的就是說我們怎麼修法本身最後到底是自己執行但是我們在修法過程裡面可以減少我們不想要發生的事情所以我們的方向就是不要再用甲乙丙丁這樣一個很僵化的一個方式我們就基本上未來就是"},{"start":343.142,"end":352.137,"text":"會請主管處理注意兩個部分一個是真的很好的同仁一定要把他找出來那如果真的工作表現不好你要把他找出來那其他呢大家就是"},{"start":353.383,"end":377.167,"text":"秤值表現工作良好大概是用這個方式那因為會不會有那種就是大家知道說反正都是主管在打烤機的所以我就要去巴結主管讓他們給你這樣子的這個官場維諾的這樣子的一個工具呢我想是不會有這樣的一個當然我的意思是說打烤機本身就很難完全科學化但是它是有管理的措施但是我們的制度設計會讓畢竟像說未來是以條件說"},{"start":380.928,"end":408.398,"text":"就是說你一定要符合某一個條件核實你才可以打那個等次所以全序部這邊其實已經針對這個部分做好這樣子的一個對我們準備大概下禮拜就開始要徵詢正式徵詢機關跟公務人員的意見那大概什麼時候會送到本院來如果可以大家有一個共識的話我還是要講如果我們徵詢過程裡面大家還有覺得我們的方案不夠好我們就當然還要再討論我們不希望送出一個大家"},{"start":409.218,"end":424.949,"text":"意見很多了但是如果大家覺得我們剛剛那個想法是可以走的那順利的話我們會以這個會計為努力的目標我們的考期是能夠對於我們真正優秀的公務人員給他們一個鼓勵跟獎勵而不是為了打而打"},{"start":425.809,"end":448.491,"text":"對 而且我們平常也有 我們這一次討論的過程裡面希望就是說我們剛修過我們是要大家另外善用平時的激勵獎勵的一個制度因為我想委員也有很多行政經驗知道有時候不是只有年終的時候給一個獎勵現在平常的時候就應該有一個機制給主管有這個機制獎勵這個同仁我想我們是希望有更多元的方式來處理這個事情好 謝謝部長"},{"start":451.013,"end":474.705,"text":"然後另外呢我要再請教的就是在這個有我們根據喔你可以看一下我們公務體系的人才流失的現況喔從109年到113年公務員離職的人數大量的流失大概總共累積了12503人喔那當然很多的原因是有的人說他是請辭的最大原因當然都是個人因素啦"},{"start":475.325,"end":503.488,"text":"那其中有高達43%的人坦言是因為另有他就這是不是代表政府所提供的這個待遇跟職涯全景已經全面落後於民間企業呢這個部分老師我們部裡面的一個統計表因為原因太大類的沒有很細的一個規範我沒有辦法回答但是我從另外一個角度跟委員報告另有他就有可能他就重新再考試因為我剛剛有報告說我們有大概有兩成的人又重新考回來"},{"start":504.409,"end":513.192,"text":"換別的單位就對了所以這個原因我們沒有太細究我覺得要去探究他真正離職的原因你才能夠根本的解決我們也嘗試想要提供一個新的調查表同仁如果真的在辭職的時候我們請他能夠回答他為什麼辭職我們有嘗試再做新的一個調查表"},{"start":527.978,"end":551.448,"text":"然後另外就是再請教一下就是請我們的這個公務體系的初等考試五等的公務員其實起薪扣完工保退府實領薪水跟其實跟基本公司其實差不多那過去長輩都說工職是鐵飯碗嘛現在已經有好像有點生鏽所以我們可以看一下在這個台灣公務員的人事費的支出在OECD國家的排行"},{"start":552.728,"end":574.378,"text":"平均是9% 我們是5.9%所以其實我們是在末段半而且過去10年來這個比例也下滑了1.8%那部長請問一下這反映的是台灣政府對於人才投資呢過於吝嗇還是說這就是一種變相的國家級的血汗呢"},{"start":575.118,"end":603.629,"text":"我跟委員報告 比較各國的人事費用這個是很危險的一件事情 佔比因為每一個國家的GDP或者生活資本都不一樣我覺得應該是自己的國家長期來看那我們過去十年來比例也下滑了1.8%那跟我們分母有關因為人事費佔總之是有比會跟我們分母多少有關我覺得比較好的指標是我們的平均年所得到底有沒有變化"},{"start":604.709,"end":625.242,"text":"那這個部分確實我們平均年所得實質上公務體系的平均年所得都在增加中因為我們不斷調薪那也許是說這個部分就某些特定領域的人還比不上民間企業我想現在目前應該就是這樣的一個狀況但是並不是全面性啦我知道我知道像比如說像剛剛講一些工程師他可能在別的地方還有這個他的"},{"start":626.082,"end":646.835,"text":"他的證照還可以加急所以針對這個部分我覺得應該是要通盤的來考慮真正的讓有能力的人願意進入到國家體系這個薪資貸的部分在權責上是有行政院主管是好 那再麻煩各位我們針對公務人員我們讓他們有更多的尊嚴跟願意進來我們國家服務謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:27.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:32.238000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們現在請考試院秘書長、考選部長及銓敘部長。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:32.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:33.621000+08:00","text":"請秘書長，還有兩位部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:33.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:37.205000+08:00","text":"委員早。早！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:38.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:38.586000+08:00","text":"兩位部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:39.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:53.650000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我想請教一下，我國學子報考國考的人數逐年下滑，從考選部的資料顯示，報考高普考的人數從105年的9萬5,062人報考，到114年只剩下5萬7,707人。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:24:54.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:24:55.011000+08:00","text":"秘書長，對於報考人數下降的趨勢，您怎麼看？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:25:05.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:25:08.336000+08:00","text":"是，我們了解這個狀況，當然也會很重視這個事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:25:09.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:25:09.957000+08:00","text":"對，那如何重視呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:25:14.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:25:41.247000+08:00","text":"針對國考人數下降的部分，我們覺得，第一個就是考試，如我剛剛有講過，考試真的讓應職者付出很大的求職成本，我們現在面對民間人才的需求競爭，的確是處於比較不利的局面，所以第一個，我想考試怎麼樣更友善一點，我們就在推動高普考減科，降低考試的障礙，因為考生其實為了要考試都要去補習班、都要花很多錢。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:25:42.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:00.705000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，我們也就職等調高的部分，銓敘部都有在逐步地通盤檢討，其實最主要還是那些不足額錄取的類科是最需要去緊急搶救的部分，這個部分我們都有在跟行政院相關部門組成工作圈來做各個面向的努力。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:01.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:31.943000+08:00","text":"你說考試科目減少，事實上過去要報考國考其實更為困難，但是大家還是爭相報考國家考試，就是因為以前大家都認為公務人員是金飯碗，有很好的保障，現在覺得相較於民間的公司，我們退休之後的保障縮減了很多，所以讓他們不願意來報考國考，我覺得這才是最重要的原因。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:34.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:49.456000+08:00","text":"針對應屆畢業生報考的部分，107年還有一萬六千多名的新鮮人報考，但113年只剩下3,000人，請問一下114年應屆畢業生有多少人報考？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:50.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:51.318000+08:00","text":"這個我請劉部長來說明。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:51.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:51.458000+08:00","text":"好，請部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:54.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:56.327000+08:00","text":"114年的應屆畢業生報考的人數有多少？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉部長孟奇","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:56.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:26:59.030000+08:00","text":"不好意思，應屆畢業生我可能還要再查一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:26:59.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:27:10.303000+08:00","text":"因為到去年就只剩3,000人，今年應屆畢業生報考的可能相對更少，這個部分是不是再麻煩部長給本席辦公室相關的資料？好。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:27:10.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:27:25.480000+08:00","text":"我這邊要陳述的就是，考選部有提到報考的人數減少是因為少子化，還有現在外面的景氣好，但是為什麼是在108年出現斷崖式的下跌？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:27:25.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:27:37.230000+08:00","text":"是不是因為107年年改上路之後，讓年輕人看到政府帶頭毀約的負面示範，所以大學的畢業生才不願意報考公務員？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:27:37.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:27:56.862000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，如果我們觀察考生人數變化，看得久一點的話，最高峰大概出現在民國100年前後3年，之後就急遽地下降，我想跟當時民間年輕人的薪資跟求職困難、產業西進可能多少都有一些關係。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:27:58.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:28:06.465000+08:00","text":"您剛剛講是不是年改的因素，我要講的就是，大概從101年開始它就急遽地下滑，一直到106、107年才推動上路，它有沒有影響……","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:28:07.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:28:12.466000+08:00","text":"但是年改的因素一定也占了很大的一部分，您不反對吧？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:28:14.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:28:20.248000+08:00","text":"對，應該說我覺得不報考原因有很多，其實就待遇面來說，我覺得那個都是相對應的，是它跟民間之間吸引力的關係。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:28:21.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:28:44.557000+08:00","text":"針對現在國考報考人數逐年下降，我們應該要提出一個務實的方法，除了您剛剛講的報考科目減少，我覺得報考科目減少其實不是主要的方法，而是要怎麼去增加公務員的薪資待遇，還有他的優越感，讓他願意來為國家報效，而不是只是看薪資的部分，我覺得這個部分才是我們應該要探討的重點。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:28:46.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:28:50.782000+08:00","text":"當然在這邊也要特別再請教一下銓敘部長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:28:50.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:29:37.762000+08:00","text":"部長，我們現在要修改考績法的上限，因為您也曾經講過，現在的考績法已經沒有獎勵效果，所以你們現在想要修改，不過以往我們的考績，說真的，很多單位都是照分配的、輪流，你今年甲等，明年乙等，但是因為這樣就讓很多認真、優秀的公務人員覺得他表現得再好，每年可能也是有機會輪到乙等，而不是都甲等，所以您現在說要放寬甲等的上限，如果到時候一些長官都不願意當壞人，然後全部都甲等的話，要怎麼去杜絕這樣的狀況？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:29:37.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:29:51.928000+08:00","text":"委員講的都是正確的，不管我們怎麼修法最後都還是涉及執行面，但是我們在修法過程裡面可以減少我們不想要發生的事情，所以我們的方向就是不要再用甲乙丙丁這樣一個很僵化的方式。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:29:52.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:09.324000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們未來就是會請主管注意兩個部分，一個是真的很好的同仁，一定要把他找出來；如果真的工作表現不好，你也要把他找出來，其他大家就是稱職，工作表現良好，大概是用這個方式。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:10.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:20.586000+08:00","text":"會不會有那種就是大家知道反正都是主管在打考績的，所以就要去巴結主管，讓他們給你官場唯諾這樣子的一個工具呢？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:20.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:26.387000+08:00","text":"我想是不會這樣的，我的意思是說，打考績本身就很難完全科學化。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:26.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:27.387000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:26.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:38.150000+08:00","text":"但是它是一個管理的措施，我們的制度設計，譬如未來是以條件來看，就是你一定要符合某一個條件，你才可以打那一個等次。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:38.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:42.571000+08:00","text":"OK，所以銓敘部其實已經有針對這個部分做好修法的準備？","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:43.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:49.213000+08:00","text":"對，我們準備大概下禮拜就開始要正式徵詢機關跟公務人員的意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:49.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:30:50.694000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候會送到本院審議？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:30:51.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:10.984000+08:00","text":"如果大家可以有一個共識的話……我還是要講，如果在我們徵詢過程裡面大家覺得我們的方案還不夠好，當然就還要再討論，我們不希望送出一個大家意見很多的，但是如果大家覺得我們剛剛那個想法是可以走的，順利的話，我們會以這個會期為努力的目標。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:10.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:17.929000+08:00","text":"我希望我們的考績是能夠給真正優秀的公務人員一個鼓勵跟獎勵，而不是為了打而打。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:18.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:32.762000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯，這是我們希望做的，而且我們這一次討論的過程裡面就是希望……我們剛修過，是要大家善用平時的激勵、獎勵的制度，因為我想委員也有很多行政經驗，知道有時候不是只有年終時給一個獎勵。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:32.762000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:33.762000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:33.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:41.250000+08:00","text":"平常時就應該有一個機制給主管獎勵同仁，我想我們是希望有更多元的方式來處理這個事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:41.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:31:41.491000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:31:44.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:19.134000+08:00","text":"另外，我要再請教的就是，您可以看一下公務體系人才流失的現況，從109年到113年公務員大量的離職、流失，總共大概累積了1萬2,503人，當然有的人說他請辭的最大原因是個人因素，但其中有高達43%的人坦言是因為另有他就，這是不是代表政府所提供的待遇跟職涯全景已經全面落後於民間企業呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:19.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:32.545000+08:00","text":"這個部分老實說我們部裡面有一個統計表，但因為原因分類太大了，沒有很細的資料，我沒有辦法回答，但是我從另外一個角度跟委員報告，另有他就也有可能是他重新再考試，因為我剛剛有報告……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:32.545000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:33.545000+08:00","text":"這也是有可能的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:33.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:36.488000+08:00","text":"我們大概有兩成的人又重新考回來，也就是說他辭職再換別的單位。","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:37.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:37.809000+08:00","text":"換別的單位就對了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:37.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:39.730000+08:00","text":"所以這個原因我們沒有分太細，就用這種大歸類的。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:39.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:43.151000+08:00","text":"我覺得要去探究他真正離職的原因，你才能夠根本解決這樣子的問題。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:43.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:46.172000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯，我們也嘗試想要提供一個新的調查表，就是同仁辭職的時候，我們請他回答為什麼辭職，我們有嘗試在做新的調查表。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:46.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:01.118000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:01.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:17.605000+08:00","text":"另外再請教一下，公務體系的初等考試，五等考試的公務員起薪扣完公保、退撫後，實領薪水其實跟基本工資差不多，過去長輩都說公職是鐵飯碗，現在好像已經有一點生鏽了。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:18.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:34.532000+08:00","text":"我們可以看一下臺灣公務員的人事費支出在OECD國家的排行，平均是9%，我們是5.9%，所以其實我們是在末段班，而且過去10年來這個比例也下滑了1.8%。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:34.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:47.358000+08:00","text":"部長，請問一下，這反映的是臺灣政府對於人才投資過於吝嗇，還是這就是一種變相的國家級血汗呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:48.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:00.003000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，比較各國的人事費用、占比，這個是很危險的一件事情，因為每一個國家譬如GDP或者生活水準都不一樣，我覺得應該是以自己國家長期來看我們的……","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:00.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:04.304000+08:00","text":"我們過去10年來的比例也下滑了1.8%。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:04.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:29.456000+08:00","text":"那跟分母有關，因為人事費占總支出的比率會跟分母多少有關，我覺得比較好的指標是看我們的平均年所得到底有沒有變化，這個部分事實上公務體系的平均年所得都在增加中，因為我們不斷調薪，但也許這個部分就某些特定領域的人還比不上民間企業，譬如土木可能就是一個典型的例子。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:29.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:32.498000+08:00","text":"我想目前應該就是這樣的一個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:32.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:33.699000+08:00","text":"但是並不是全面性的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:34.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:40.203000+08:00","text":"對，我知道，比如說像剛剛講的，一些工程師可能在別的地方，他的證照還可以有加給。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:40.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:41.203000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯、沒錯，委員很了解這個狀況。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:40.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:45.166000+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，我覺得應該是要通盤來考慮。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:45.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:46.166000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:45.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:49.509000+08:00","text":"真正讓有能力的人願意進入到國家體系。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:49.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:53.091000+08:00","text":"有關薪資待遇的部分，在權責上是由行政院主管。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:54.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:59.835000+08:00","text":"好，再麻煩各位，針對公務人員，我們要讓他們有更多的尊嚴願意進來為國家服務，謝謝。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:00.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:02.335000+08:00","text":"好，當然、當然，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:02.635000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:04.349286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝許委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:04.649286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:07.792143+08:00","text":"接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}