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透過災難或者透過幫忙被看見這一點本席在這邊給我們外交部部長跟所有同仁很高的肯定"},{"start":37.442,"end":64.627,"text":"真實的戰場其實是在外交其他的海巡警政國防是面對威脅但是每一天在面對這樣的挑戰其實外交部駐外人員都相當辛苦那我們也曾經討論過駐外人員相關的防捕、叫捕各種那一塊我們已經討論一段時間我今天就不再著重在這一塊我先請教一個問題賴總統就職到現在邁向第三年了"},{"start":66.167,"end":86.18,"text":"出訪一次,目前有一次出訪到南泰,那今年第三年有沒有出訪的計畫?有,我們有接到邀請,但是出訪除了國事訪問,也有時候會配合對方國家,有重大的典禮。目前有哪幾國邀請我們?"},{"start":90.056,"end":95.161,"text":"斯瓦帝尼最近有邀請台灣 因為他們有重大的節慶應該是死亡奔機40年 以及他們58歲的生日"},{"start":108.404,"end":123.529,"text":"所以斯瓦帝你有邀請 還有沒有其他的地方其他當然一般來講我們有一些比如說有新政府產生的國家或是因為他有來訪我們也是有要回訪 這些也都在評估的範圍"},{"start":124.309,"end":148.235,"text":"所以今年確實有受邀也在評估出訪的可能性那我們元首外交其實對台灣很重要我們特別困難所以透過元首外交有的是鞏固邦誼有的是做外交突破那有的是希望被看見那你估計今年我們元首外交的頻率會一次兩次三次或者不盡限於一次能回答就回答了"},{"start":149.062,"end":169.301,"text":"我們一般來講會朝兩次來做規劃當然也會因應情勢的發展來做調整所以我們樂見也希望今年的不管是國事出訪或元首外交能夠有好的消息接下來我們要看一些面對的狀況"},{"start":170.862,"end":198.254,"text":"在立陶宛的部分我們原來期待的是一個正骨牌效應也就是當時立陶宛設立台灣代表處那我們希望聯動不管是這個愛沙尼亞啦或者捷克啦其他國家能夠仿效讓台灣代表處能夠陸續成立那確實當時中國在歐洲尤其中東歐本來是他們有幾家幾那個很強勢的外交力量在那個狀態下"},{"start":199.454,"end":213.561,"text":"加上COVID-19的期間所以中國在這個Central Europe它確實是降下來了那現在目前我們觀察到的現象是立陶宛的總理盧錦尼涅呢他"},{"start":216.155,"end":240.657,"text":"認為設置台灣代表處是一個巨大錯誤那他們的前任總理呢也向中國提案要恢復中國跟立陶宛相關的互動跟關係那這是一個警訊因為這警訊除了我們原來期待的正骨牌效應沒有發生我擔心的是逆骨牌效應也就是設立台灣代表處被定義為一個巨大的錯誤"},{"start":242.011,"end":263.414,"text":"那接下來對我們在歐洲的外交工作不管是多瑙河沿岸九國啦或者其他國家要開展往前更進一步讓台灣被看見讓台灣被證明可能會遇到更大的困難我先請問立陶宛發生了什麼事情他會做出這樣的表述然後對於我們住處的更名目前立陶宛的態度是什麼"},{"start":264.612,"end":285.314,"text":"報告委員 雖然他們總理曾經有這樣的發言不過後來也有修正然後在他們總統老薩達出面召開國安會議之後也定了調有跟台灣的關係怎麼樣持續的來發展所以說他們要跟中國的關係那個也不是操之在立陶宛要看中國到底怎麼做"},{"start":285.854,"end":305.496,"text":"所以我覺得經過這樣的一個總統召集的國安會議之後啊我們也很清楚他們也是很肯定跟台灣的這個我們的這個社畜的關係就外交部的評估我們目前跟立陶宛的狀態包含住處的名稱編制是不會有影響不會有改變OK那"},{"start":306.497,"end":333.678,"text":"骨牌效應的部分因為2758號決議文事實上是對台灣非常重要的一個法律跟國際事件當中國濫用扭曲解釋2758號決議文作為一中原則或一中政策的基礎對外宣稱代表台灣2300萬人那個虛幻的幻影讓台灣參加不管是聯合國或相關的國際組織遭受阻礙我們跟各國建立正常的邦交關係呢也因為這樣子台灣已經被代表的假象"},{"start":335.36,"end":362.728,"text":"傷害了台灣幾十年那從澳洲開始到歐盟許多國家甚至於連義大利的外委會參議院的外委會到美國到加拿大主流的民主國家都說2758號決議文無關台灣這是一個在法國際法理上破除所謂的中國代表台灣一中原則一中政策非常重要的法律戰的一個我認為是一個勝利那這也是外交部長期很努力美國國務院也幫了很多的忙"},{"start":364.508,"end":386.093,"text":"在2758號決議文加上立陶宛的效應,原來我們期待是歐洲像愛沙尼亞、埃斯多尼亞也許我們可以設置一個台灣代表處或其他住處做一個證明目前愛沙尼亞的設處其實講了很久很久包含雙邊的合作互訪也相當多現在的諮商的階段進到哪裡"},{"start":387.149,"end":405.2,"text":"包括我們在他通過國會賦予的法源已經在進行施行細則那這施行細則會針對當然因為他是把台灣放在整個法案裡面就是某一類那我們實質上當然在周邊國家也都有一些涉處"},{"start":406.361,"end":429.22,"text":"我們的外交的這個地位跟特權還有豁免等這個都有在溝通中可是因為那個施行細則要完成我們才能夠正式的來提出這個方案這個Estonia他們的是用一個法律去框架不同的外交關係的定義所以設出那個法源細節出來就可以處理了"},{"start":429.941,"end":445.915,"text":"住處名稱呢住處名稱當然也都會交換意見在這個階段目前傾向是台北經貿或者是台灣因為對方在通過國會這個法案以及他們內閣的這個決定的時候其實他們是用台北"},{"start":446.556,"end":460.554,"text":"他是用台北 是所以目前是往台北辦事處做他們先前的這個就是用的希望如果台灣有設處是以台北那我們外交部的態度呢跟工作的方向呢"},{"start":461.161,"end":476.982,"text":"我們基本上就是建立實質的外交關係那有外交的這種代表性這是我們的目標那每一個國家也都會因應他的情況我想這個是就是不是單一的方案"},{"start":479.085,"end":505.404,"text":"外交部長在這邊不適合把我們底牌縮死啦但我們還是期待讓台灣2300萬人像我台南我就不是被台北代表的啊就是說我們還是希望能夠被看見被代表的名稱我們希望我們各位同仁繼續努力啦但是底牌當然實質的台灣的困難我們都知道困難的來源我們也知道所以往對的方向努力不代表輕鬆啦所以請你們繼續加油因為我移到巴拉圭"},{"start":506.064,"end":531.778,"text":"最近巴拉圭的用那個超級豪華的旅程邀請了巴拉圭的國會議員去中國訪問那確實也產生一些效應他們回巴拉圭之後這是我們在拉美唯一的邦交國在南美唯一的邦交國他也表達說建議要調整對台的相關關係那我們都曉得中國習慣性或者中國會把經貿當外交武器"},{"start":532.802,"end":557.541,"text":"中國也會把貪腐當作外交的機會跟外交的工具這是中國的習慣有時候中國答應要買你的白蝦像洪都拉斯跳票沒關係洪都拉斯的人民付出代價沒關係但是他掌握key man就好了那key man用什麼方式來掌握眾說紛雲所以有關巴拉圭的部分我們外交部目前評估狀態是怎麼樣"},{"start":560.046,"end":587.718,"text":"因為我們的前駐巴拉圭大使現在是拉美師長我待會請他簡單補充師長剛從那邊回來對對對中共對巴拉圭要挖我們牆角是不擇手段的他動用的資源那個是非常可怕可是為什麼今天台巴關係還是穩定啊包括貝尼亞總統包括他們國會因為他們要跟台灣合作是看到台灣發展模式所以在巴拉圭就是台灣模式對中國模式在拉美的一個對決"},{"start":588.96,"end":600.334,"text":"所以最近包括宏都拉斯他當然旁邊有瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯就是林邦所以我們跟對方比的不是比金錢或比霸權而我們比的是台灣的發展經驗的模式所以巴拉圭"},{"start":605.02,"end":620.036,"text":"我們現在做到榮邦計畫包括八個旗艦包括他的醫院有資訊系統智慧醫院是全拉美最好的我們在巴拉圭榮邦計畫坦白講做得相當不錯我有去拜訪那個Gustavo他現在是巴拉圭駐美國的大使"},{"start":620.396,"end":631.401,"text":"江啟臣副院長也有組團距跨黨派所以這個巴拉圭本身榮邦計畫是做得還不錯那中國挖我們牆角所以你們現在目前評估巴拉圭狀態還可以那他們的總統佩妮娜邁總統訪問的邀請還持續中嗎"},{"start":638.676,"end":651.407,"text":"當然我們也邀請他啦他來我相對看起來比較簡單啦那我們總統出訪比較起來要考慮比較多啦所以巴拉圭的邀請還存在"},{"start":653.255,"end":671.992,"text":"對,我們市長一直點頭嘛,黑村你團的嘛來來,讓我講講大使大使來那時候邀請的時候你還是大使嘛是,巴拉圭的貝納總統從上台以後就一直不斷的在公開或私下的場合表達希望賴總統有時間有機會能夠去訪問今年會安排嗎?"},{"start":674.661,"end":697.723,"text":"你這樣的笑容很燦爛我們隨時在準備啦但是實際是適當的時候那個有些要讓府方來宣布好啦謝謝我真的懂了啦我最後兩個問題第一個是史瓦帝尼的基礎建設因為他也跟非洲的開發銀行申請當然史瓦帝尼跟我們非常友好"},{"start":698.303,"end":723.31,"text":"那斯瓦帝尼還是會跟非洲銀行申請一些貸款、基建的計畫現在他的那個培克尼大壩的計畫申請到42億台幣的基建的融資結果飆到的是中國的公司用低價切到了因為我剛才還是講那句話中國會把經貿當外交工具、武器中國會把貪腐當作外交機會"},{"start":724.77,"end":740.285,"text":"就你們判斷斯瓦帝尼跟這一個培克尼大壩對我們有沒有什麼值得擔憂或關注的地方我是非常關注啦因為我這個這個當然是他們低價競標我關注就是說這個大壩有沒有發電"},{"start":741.306,"end":756.176,"text":"如果發電後續的營運可能中共就會進來那還好這個大壩是純粹是一個水壩它沒有發電再來就是我們現在在我們的龍幫計畫已經進入這個石瓦地你就暫備儲油槽"},{"start":757.997,"end":778.022,"text":"那個計畫更大所以我們也讓台灣的包括OIDC啦 OECC啦還有包括這個台灣世襲國會都進去所以其實也許那個BAR弄起來我們台灣來幫他弄發電也是一個方式啦後續我們都可以去接手但是他們的品質如果不好我們不敢接因為他們的BAR有時候會破洞"},{"start":779.862,"end":804.845,"text":"大波動是會垮掉的,那個...還沒有放啊,要賠償啊,包括要再...要挖多啦,對那個...那個會壞東西,我們不要問啦,但我最後提醒一句話目前南韓的部分,我們是採取不升級對應的方式處理,這是好的但我提醒外交部,還是要有些實質的處理方式因為韓國這種做法非常不禮貌那當然有網友說應該叫他南朝鮮,但我們未必要做到"},{"start":805.686,"end":819.957,"text":"跟他們一樣這樣失格的事情但是我要提醒說對韓國來講我們應該還有一些實質的工具但是採取外交不升高衝突的方式展現國格我個人是給予支持但這個事情應該要盡快有一個處理方向謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:51+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:52+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩林佳龍部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:51.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:51.927000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:51.927000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:32:56.380500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:32:56.380500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:00.834000+08:00","text":"部長，辛苦了。不會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:00.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:27.482000+08:00","text":"外交部在部長擔任部長以後，不管是總合外交或者是整體國力的呈現，過去這兩年多來確實有一些新的面貌，而且臺灣在國際舞臺被看見的風貌越來越多元、越來越豐富，不像以往都透過被打壓、透過災難或者透過幫忙被看見，這一點本席在這邊給外交部部長跟所有同仁很高的肯定！謝謝。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:28.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:33:51.386000+08:00","text":"因為真實的戰場其實是在外交，其他的海巡、警政、國防是面對威脅，但是每一天面對這樣的挑戰，其實外交部駐外人員都相當辛苦，我們也曾經討論過駐外人員相關的房補、教補等等，那一塊我們已經討論一段時間，我今天就不再著重在這一塊。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:33:51.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:05.833000+08:00","text":"我先請教一個問題，賴總統就職到現在邁向第三年了、出訪一次，目前有一次出訪到南太，今年第三年有沒有出訪的計畫？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:05.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:16.339000+08:00","text":"有，我們有接到邀請，而出訪除了國是訪問，有時候也會配合對方國家，比如有重大的典禮，最近……","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:16.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:17.180000+08:00","text":"目前有哪幾國邀請我們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:21.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:24.580000+08:00","text":"史瓦帝尼最近有邀請臺灣，因為他們有重大的節慶。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:24.580000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:25.580000+08:00","text":"蘆葦節的樣子。什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:25.580000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:26.580000+08:00","text":"好像是國慶，他們每一年這個時候都會辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:24.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:26.141000+08:00","text":"應該說是史王登基40年以及他的58歲生日。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:39.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:42.245000+08:00","text":"OK，所以史瓦帝尼有邀請，還有沒有其他的地方？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:43.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:54.529000+08:00","text":"一般來講，比如說有新政府產生的國家，或者是因為他有來訪，我們也要回訪，這些也都在評估的範圍。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:34:55.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:34:59.710000+08:00","text":"所以今年確實有受邀，也在評估出訪的可能性嘛？是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:00.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:19.055000+08:00","text":"元首外交其實對臺灣很重要，因為我們特別困難，所以透過元首外交，有的是鞏固邦誼，有的是做外交突破，有的是希望被看見，你估計今年我們元首外交的頻率會一次、兩次、三次或者不僅限於一次，能回答就回答。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:20.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:30.071000+08:00","text":"一般來講，我們會朝兩次來規劃，當然也會因應情勢的發展調整。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:31.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:35:37.918000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們樂見，也希望今年不管是國是出訪或元首外交，能夠有好的消息。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:35:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:36:00.790000+08:00","text":"接下來我們要看一些面對的狀況，在立陶宛的部分，我們原來期待的是一個正骨牌效應，也就是當時立陶宛設立臺灣代表處，我們希望連動，不管是愛沙尼亞或者捷克，其他國家能夠仿效，能夠讓臺灣代表處陸續成立。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:36:02.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:36:16.237000+08:00","text":"確實當時中國在歐洲，尤其中、東歐，本來他們有幾加幾很強勢的外交力量，在那個狀態下，加上COVID-19期間，所以中國在Central Europe確實是降下來了。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:36:17.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:36:38.425000+08:00","text":"現在我們觀察到的現象是，立陶宛的總理魯吉尼涅認為設置臺灣代表處是一個巨大錯誤，他們的前任總理也向中國提案，要恢復中國跟立陶宛相關的互動跟關係。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:36:38.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:04.323000+08:00","text":"這是一個警訊，因為這警訊，除了我們原來期待的正骨牌效應沒有發生，我擔心的是逆骨牌效應，也就是設立臺灣代表處被定義為一個巨大的錯誤，接下來對我們在歐洲的外交工作，不管是多瑙河沿岸9國或者是其他國家，如果要往前開展更進一步，讓臺灣被看見、讓臺灣被正名，可能會遇到更大的困難。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:04.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:09.749000+08:00","text":"我先請問立陶宛發生了什麼事情，他會做出這樣的表述？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:11.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:14.414000+08:00","text":"對於我們駐處的更名，目前立陶宛的態度是什麼？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:15.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:36.294000+08:00","text":"報告委員，雖然他們總理曾經有這樣的發言，不過後來也有修正，然後在他們總統瑙塞達出面召開國安會議之後也定了調，跟臺灣的關係要怎麼樣持續發展，至於說他們跟中國的關係，那個也不是操之在立陶宛，要看中國到底怎麼做。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:36.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:46.405000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得經過這樣總統召集國安會議之後，我們也很清楚，他們也是很肯定跟臺灣設處的關係。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:46.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:54.794000+08:00","text":"就外交部的評估，我們目前跟立陶宛的狀態，包含駐處的名稱、編制是不會有影響？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:54.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:37:55.535000+08:00","text":"不會有改變。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:37:55.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:38:27.140000+08:00","text":"OK，至於骨牌效應的部分，因為2758號決議文事實上是對臺灣非常重要的一個法律跟國際事件，當中國濫用、扭曲解釋2758號決議文，作為一中原則或一中政策的基礎，對外宣稱代表臺灣2,300萬人，那個虛幻的幻影讓臺灣參加不管是聯合國或相關的國際組織都遭受到阻礙，我們跟各國建立正常的邦交關係也因為這樣子，臺灣已經被代表的假象傷害了幾十年。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:38:28.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:38:49.566000+08:00","text":"從澳洲開始，到歐盟許多國家，甚至於連義大利參議院的外委會到美國、到加拿大，主流的民主國家都說2758號決議文無關臺灣，這在國際法理上破除中國代表臺灣的一中原則、一中政策，我認為是法律戰上非常重要的一個勝利。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:38:50.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:38:53.708000+08:00","text":"外交部長期也很努力，美國國務院也幫了很多的忙。對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:38:56.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:39:17.093000+08:00","text":"2758號決議文加上立陶宛的效應，原來我們期待是歐洲，像愛沙尼亞，也許我們可以設置一個臺灣代表處或其他駐處做正名，目前愛沙尼亞的設處其實講了很久很久，包含雙邊的合作、互訪也相當多，現在諮商的階段進到哪裡？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:39:20.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:39:31.037000+08:00","text":"報告委員，他通過國會賦予的法源，已經在進行施行細則，這施行細則會針對……因為他是把臺灣放在整個法案裡面，就是某一類。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:39:32.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:39:43.947000+08:00","text":"當然我們在周邊國家也都有一些設處，我們外交的地位、特權還有豁免等，這個都有在溝通中。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:39:44.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:39:51.873000+08:00","text":"可是因為那個施行細則要完成，我們才能夠正式提出方案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:39:53.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:39:56.978000+08:00","text":"愛沙尼亞是用一個法律去框架不同的外交關係的定義嘛。是。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:39:56.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:00.200000+08:00","text":"所以設處那個法源細節出來，就可以處理了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:01.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:01.582000+08:00","text":"那駐處名稱呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:02.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:05.846000+08:00","text":"駐處名稱當然也都會交換意見，在這個階段。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:06.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:08.348000+08:00","text":"目前傾向是臺北經貿或者是臺灣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:09.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:16.895000+08:00","text":"對方在通過國會這個法案以及內閣決定的時候，其實他們是用臺北。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:17.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:18.397000+08:00","text":"他是用臺北？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:18.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:21+08:00","text":"所以目前是往臺北辦事處的方向？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:21.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:28.950000+08:00","text":"他們先前希望的，如果臺灣有設處，是以臺北代表處……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:29.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:31.353000+08:00","text":"那我們外交部的態度跟工作的方向？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:32.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:40:47.962000+08:00","text":"我們基本上就是建立實質的外交關係，有外交的這種代表性，這是我們的目標，也都會因應每一個國家的情況，我想這不是單一的方案。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:40:50.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:41:15.003000+08:00","text":"當然，外交部長在這邊不適合把我們底牌說死，但我們還是期待讓臺灣2,300萬人……像我是臺南，我就不是被臺北代表的，我們還是希望能夠被看見、被代表的名稱，希望各位同仁繼續努力，但底牌當然實質……臺灣的困難，我們都知道，困難的來源，我們也知道，往對的方向努力不代表輕鬆，所以請你們繼續加油。謝謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:41:15.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:41:26.469000+08:00","text":"另外我移到巴拉圭，最近巴拉圭……用超級豪華的旅程，邀請了巴拉圭的國會議員去中國訪問，確實也產生一些效應。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:41:28.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:41:36.835000+08:00","text":"它是我們在拉美唯一的邦交國，在南美唯一的邦交國，他們回巴拉圭之後也表達了建議要調整對臺的相關關係。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:41:36.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:41:51.408000+08:00","text":"我們都曉得中國習慣性，或者中國會把經貿當外交武器，中國也會把貪腐當作外交的機會跟外交的工具，這是中國的習慣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:41:51.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:02.716000+08:00","text":"有時候中國答應要買你的白蝦，像宏都拉斯跳票，沒關係，宏都拉斯的人民付出代價，沒關係，但是他掌握keyman就好了，那keyman用什麼方式來掌握？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:04.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:04.878000+08:00","text":"眾說紛紜。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:04.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:08.541000+08:00","text":"所以有關巴拉圭的部分，我們外交部目前評估狀態是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:11.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:15.268000+08:00","text":"因為我們的前駐巴拉圭大使現在是拉美司司長，我待會請他來補充。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:15.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:18.269000+08:00","text":"司長剛從那邊回來？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:18.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:27.713000+08:00","text":"對，中共對巴拉圭，他要挖我們牆角是不擇手段，他動用的資源非常可怕，可是為什麼今天臺巴關係還是穩定？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:28.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:42:38.718000+08:00","text":"包括貝尼亞總統、包括他們的國會，因為他們要跟臺灣合作，是看到臺灣發展的模式，所以在巴拉圭，就是臺灣模式對中國模式在拉美的對決。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:42:40.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:03.588000+08:00","text":"最近包括宏都拉斯，旁邊有瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯，就是鄰邦，所以我們跟對方比的不是比金錢或比霸權，我們比的是臺灣的發展經驗的模式，所以對於巴拉圭，我們現在做到榮邦計畫，包括八大旗艦項目，包括它的醫院有資訊系統，智慧醫院是全拉美最好的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:03.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:11.016000+08:00","text":"我們在巴拉圭的榮邦計畫坦白講做得相當不錯，我有去拜訪Gustavo，他現在是巴拉圭駐美國的大使嘛。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:11.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:13.237000+08:00","text":"江啟臣副院長也有組團去，是跨黨派的。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:13.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:18.259000+08:00","text":"對，所以巴拉圭本身的榮邦計畫做得還不錯，但中國挖我們牆角。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:18.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:22.401000+08:00","text":"你們目前評估巴拉圭的狀態是還可以，他們的總統貝尼亞邀請賴總統訪問的邀請還在持續中嗎？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:29.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:31.778000+08:00","text":"對，當然我們也有邀請他啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:32.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:36.482000+08:00","text":"他來的話，我看起來相對比較簡單啦！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:37.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:39.625000+08:00","text":"我們總統出訪相較起來要考慮比較多啦！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:40.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:44.255000+08:00","text":"所以巴拉圭的邀請還存在？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:44.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:46.216000+08:00","text":"我看司長一直點頭嘛，那時候你組的團嘛。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:46.216000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:47.337000+08:00","text":"來，讓他說明。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:47.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:43:51.581000+08:00","text":"來，請大使，那時候邀請的時候，你還是大使嘛？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"韓司長志正","start":"2026-03-19T11:43:51.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:02.531000+08:00","text":"是，巴拉圭的貝尼亞總統從上臺以後，就一直不斷地在公開或私下的場合表達希望賴總統有時間、有機會能夠去訪問。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:02.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:02.992000+08:00","text":"今年會安排嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:05.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:08.064000+08:00","text":"你這樣的笑容很燦爛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"韓司長志正","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:08.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:11.327000+08:00","text":"我們隨時在準備啦，在時機適當的時候。好啦！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:12.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:13.489000+08:00","text":"沒關係，有些話要讓府方來宣布啦！","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:14.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:15.470000+08:00","text":"好啦，謝謝委員！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:15.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:16.171000+08:00","text":"我聽得懂啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:17.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:35.205000+08:00","text":"我最後有兩個問題，第一個是史瓦帝尼的基礎建設，因為他也跟非洲的開發銀行申請，當然史瓦帝尼跟我們非常友好，史瓦帝尼還是會跟非洲銀行申請一些貸款、基建的計畫。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:35.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:44:45.847000+08:00","text":"現在他的裴克妮大壩的計畫申請到42億臺幣的基建的融資，結果標到的是中國的公司，用低價切到了。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:44:47.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:02.737000+08:00","text":"還是我剛才講得那句話，中國會把經貿當外交工具、武器，中國會把貪腐當作外交機會，就你們判斷，史瓦帝尼的裴克妮大壩，對我們有沒有什麼值得擔憂或關注的地方？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:03.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:15.428000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我是非常關注啦，這個當然是他們低價競標，我關注的是這個大壩有沒有發電，如果發電，後續的營運可能中共就會進來。對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:15.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:20.372000+08:00","text":"還好這個大壩純粹是一個水壩，它沒有發電。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:20.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:39.199000+08:00","text":"再來，現在我們的榮邦計畫已經進入史瓦帝尼戰略儲油槽，那個計畫更大，所以我們也讓臺灣包括OIDC、OECC，還有台灣世曦都進去，所以其實……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:39.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:42.860000+08:00","text":"也許那個壩弄起來，我們臺灣來幫它弄發電也是一個方式啦……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:43.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:45.001000+08:00","text":"對，後續我們都可以去接手……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:45.001000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:46.001000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:45.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:49.002000+08:00","text":"但是他們的品質如果不好，我們不敢接，因為他們的壩有時候會破洞啊！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:51.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:51.923000+08:00","text":"壩破洞是會垮掉的……對啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:53.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:53.865000+08:00","text":"有裂縫要賠償啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:56.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:56.608000+08:00","text":"像厄瓜多啦……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:58.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:45:58.489000+08:00","text":"會壞掉的東西我們不要碰啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:45:58.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:18.007000+08:00","text":"但是我最後提醒一句話，目前南韓的部分，我們是採取不升級對應的方式處理，這是好的，但我提醒外交部還是要有一些實質的處理方式，因為韓國這種做法非常不禮貌，當然有網友說應該叫他南朝鮮，但我們未必要做到跟他們一樣失格的事情啦！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:18.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:30.957000+08:00","text":"我要提醒對於韓國來講，我們應該還有些實質工具，但是採取外交、不升高衝突的方式展現國格，我個人是給予支持，但這個事情應該要儘快有個處理方向，謝謝。好。謝謝。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:31.457000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:35.171286+08:00","text":"接下來請牛煦庭委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}