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紐西蘭政府也下令軍用飛機先預作準備"},{"start":162.596,"end":186.021,"text":"所以我講這件事情你總不能講說其他國家都沒有做所以我們也不做對不對這個在現在我們雖然階段性的任務已經完成了但你確定後面都不會有事大家安全無虞這個可不可以掛保證戰爭還在發生中所以我們也需要持續因應所以有關於包機以及可能的需求跟方式行政院有在評估因為這涉及跨部會"},{"start":190.062,"end":216.742,"text":"我想院裡面都會有整體評估之後的決定所以本期我沒有要求說你一定講我也要派軍機啊或者是我也要一定要做好應變的準備包括這個選項當然我希望第一個方法多元啦第二個如果其他國家做得到我們也要盡量做到啦我不是講現在就一定要做因為沒有需求不一定做得到要有這個準備一個方案有這個能力去執行如果需要的話那再來剛剛也有提到嘛就是有一些旅客到最後他是透過中國東方航空"},{"start":217.322,"end":234.874,"text":"回來那他顯然是透過中國大使館的協助我請教一下部長這幾位旅客或者是旅行社當初有沒有尋求我們外館的協助我是說這個資訊我們都有掌握然後他要透過哪裡去轉機我們先了解之後那些航班是有的就像也有中國人透過我們台灣來轉機的我有在聽所以我了解"},{"start":238.917,"end":257.666,"text":"所以他們有透過外交的這個就上海這個例子基本上並沒有說有什麼樣的爭論那因為盡快的讓當事人可以選擇他認為最好的方式離境我覺得這個是我們的共同目標所以部長可以基本上也是可以怎麼評價這個事我覺得這個轉機到任何地方去只要是從戰場離開我就覺得我們應該都要支持啊"},{"start":266.47,"end":290.315,"text":"我希望外交部這邊你至少要做一點事不要讓這些人受到非難因為你講的這很敏感就是大家考量什麼政治立場你要比照日本還表達感謝之意也太為難你們了這本席我不會強加於你但問題是有些人講認知作戰他會形成國安破口然後甚至側翼想要去攻擊我覺得至少我們國家可以確保這些人不要受非難因為外交部已經公開表態任何的方式只要能夠安全的迅速的有效的脫離"},{"start":291.755,"end":305.931,"text":"混亂回到台灣都應該要正面看待部長可以承諾這事嗎對在這地方公開承諾希望大家不要再針對這群人的非難趕快翻篇好不好因為每一個的處境都很特別啊當事人最在乎他的生命跟安全所以我們全力來協助他能夠"},{"start":306.752,"end":334.905,"text":"所以撤僑這件事有兩個提醒第一個因為戰事可能會延長後面可能會有需求改國委在這裡呼籲有一些國人可能這個時候不要再過去旅遊或者是轉機或者是萬一又戰爭又升高然後又困住了降低風險是一環嘛你該宣導要宣導但是做好準備嘛隨時對那邊的人隨時動態做掌握確保安全第二不管透過任何手段進來不要再讓政治的立場去干擾這個事情讓它可以順利秉持這樣的原則就好"},{"start":335.365,"end":349.909,"text":"另外花一點點時間跟部長探討一下國際局勢的一些變化最近美國川普總統的外交政策跟路線跟傳統的外交圈子裡面認知的其實有非常非常大的落差其中最重要的一點基本上就是國際組織的參與這個部長這個川普政府參與國際組織是積極的嗎"},{"start":355.834,"end":375.704,"text":"他自己在形成以他們的國家的這個為中心的國際的聯盟嘛 組織嘛當然也退出了一些組織 這對我們來講有挑戰也有機會OK 他退出了很多的組織 或者是用聚角會費啊 或者是消極參與等等的方式他其實是往後退嘛 大的方向來說他的參與率是下降的"},{"start":377.805,"end":391.159,"text":"那剛剛部長很好這是我正想問的問題啊這個美國在這個地方建區消極的這樣子的一個大環境下我們參與國際組織的策略啊要怎麼樣來做因應您剛剛講的所謂的機遇或者是挑戰分別是什麼您簡單說明一下"},{"start":392.299,"end":414.928,"text":"其實美國雖然推出一些國際組織他還在聯合國所以對於比如說聯合國2758號解釋他不但有更完整的他還發函各個這個使節團那另外就是說他在形成中的新的國際的組織或聯盟比如像細勝市這種供應鏈那當然跟半導體AI有關那我們就是變成裡面不可或缺的夥伴"},{"start":415.308,"end":435.101,"text":"那這個也是機會那至於說你說我們原來想積極爭取的一些國際組織那美國退出之後當然會有一定的影響所以我們也會跟G7其他國家在協商就是說是不是由他們這個比較有分量的國家也能夠來領先因為有時候要集體去洽或者是支持我們的時候的一些行動"},{"start":435.962,"end":462.037,"text":"好 這個剛好也是我要問因為美國雖然推出了很多國際組織但同時在2758號決議上面他做了非常強的政治的表態加大了一定的力道但本席想要問的是實質上他改變了什麼比如說以聯合國來講因為他對2758號全世界講這些東西不應該排除台灣有意義的參與國際組織的各種方式嘛 對不對那我們長期以來這不管誰在執政的時候大家都希望比如說國際刑警組織 對不對國際民航組織大家可以用實質參與的方式來做處理"},{"start":463.638,"end":490.328,"text":"那這段時間現在的進度如何?有沒有遇到狀況跟...委員提到聯合國昨天有四個組織是我們特別集中要爭取的嘛剛剛除了這個Akeo這個Akeo或Interpol以外那當然它退出的那個UNFCCC跟這個WHO所以我們在這兩個是不一樣的處理方法比如說以國際民航組織跟這個國際刑警組織其實沒有台灣世界是會有一個漏洞是啊 這大家都這樣說啊這個時候"},{"start":491.989,"end":517.162,"text":"我是覺得他們對我們支持的力道其實是有持續甚至增強甚至包括日本加拿大等那在這樣子的一個局面下面比如說我們還是要想辦法加入或是想辦法參與對不對國際刑警組織或民防組織也好你現在外交部的策略是怎麼樣正面突破因為我現在反正可能各個國家形成集團跟陣營所以我只要站在人多這邊我正面突破或者是我要迂迴的參與或者是因為怎麼樣都繞不過中國大陸的打壓"},{"start":517.662,"end":547.037,"text":"所以我乾脆死了這條心現在外交部打算用什麼樣的策略因素有一些輪值主席國是比較友善的國家啦比如說國際民航組織那日本他們擔任主席當然秘書處因為過去有一些是中共長年的經營他就掌控所以我們當然我們有道理是一回事但是涉及到投票或涉及到政治力的角力嘛這個時候我們的議程聚焦幾個國際組織我們也要有策略而不是說都是去call們結果都沒有進展"},{"start":548.057,"end":569.229,"text":"所以正面突破可能有一些困難另外我再跟委員補充比如說世界衛生組織我們今年有去因為那時候江啟臣副院長有希望說我們去辦智慧醫療展我們這個智慧醫療跟健康產業我想在那裡就形成會今年一起我們也期待如果委員們能夠到場去指導但是美國也在"},{"start":570.75,"end":589.267,"text":"也可能會形成新的這種跟世界衛生組織性質相近的組織的時候那我們也講嘛我們總是ready準備好我們也可以我覺得這個時候就是有時候就是挑戰有時候是機會就看我們也要做好各種準備"},{"start":590.428,"end":609.385,"text":"這部長有提到四大組織啦因為今天時間比較有限我還有最後一個問題你要四大組織的參與策略你會有提供一份報告好不好讓我們做長期的追蹤跟了解因為我們也希望有突破嘛如果任何哪怕你只是迂回參與我覺得都是在外交上都可以或多或少加分我講我沒有要求一定要突破或你要在多少時間內達成什麼目標這太為難你們我都非常清楚"},{"start":609.625,"end":624.947,"text":"然後最後一個問題就是剛剛部長有提到因為國際局勢的改變美國策略的改變很多時候它可能變成多邊轉雙邊比如說最近的河母之海峽的這個狀況顯然大家都想說這照理來講過去應該要共同"},{"start":625.587,"end":648.855,"text":"國際社會共同處理來確保海峽航路的暢通但為了沒辦法處理呢我想跟我剛剛提到的美國撤出國際組織降低參與你少了一個很大的平台啊少了一個協作的空間所以就變成美國要個別雙邊的去找各個國家來協調這件事情那顯然以現在的消息露出來講好像不是特別的順利大家對於這件事情是心態是比較保留的我覺得也合理啊"},{"start":649.355,"end":660.126,"text":"因為從外交角度大家以本國利益為優先的情況之下我幹嘛去擔負這樣子的一個高風險的這樣子的一個狀況呢所以這是一個大的問題但我要提醒部長而且這是預料問題當大家這個"},{"start":663.055,"end":690.752,"text":"外交的這個專業的人員做了共同的考慮所以不管是多邊跟雙邊這要暫時都陷入僵局走不通的時候有台灣內部竟然有一群人說我們要率先響應這樣的一個協議然後要派甚至要派武力等等去響應川普總統的說法然後認為這樣可以帶來新的外交突破部長從外交的專業來講或者是各位外交部的人員可以來做補充這樣的說法對台灣的安全也好或者是對國際利益來講是有幫助的嘛"},{"start":691.445,"end":718.139,"text":"外交是一定以自己的國家利益還有包括主權跟安全為出發點所以第一個美國也沒有邀請再來就是說我們的角色我們比較不是透過軍事方式我想台灣的外交走得出去跟我們整體我想比較不是在軍事方面的角色但是安全面"},{"start":719.159,"end":741.773,"text":"很多情報的交換 各種可能我想包括像你看俄羅斯戰爭對不對我們也是有一些我們可以做的事情那也是在確保我們國家的利益啊跟這個委員會所以因為美國沒有邀請然後也不太適合嘛 對不對其實部長我也不多為難你但你看我點了這個事情跟剛剛我講的因為那會捲入一個我們比較不能夠掌握的一個戰場啊"},{"start":747.076,"end":776.303,"text":"所以這部分也希望外交部適時的有一些比較合理的說法我常常講國防題目跟外交題目不要有太多政治的色彩去介入的時候他其實推動會比較順利專業才會比較被尊重外交就是多交朋友少找敵人對啊朋友多多敵人少少嘛對不對所以我想不管是剛剛我講撤僑的題目有一些人透過中國大陸的角度就不要讓他們受到非議跟責難或者是我講和睦之海有一些基於"},{"start":777.143,"end":792.699,"text":"這個短視的政治利益然後去搞煽動跟操作這時候外交部要適時的站在專業的立場以國家利益為優先因為涉及到能源我們確實是要很專注的做一些因應但是不能亂搞啦 好不好好 幾個事情提醒部長也謝謝部長詳細的回答 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:45+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:46+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請林部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:46+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:47+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:45.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:46:45.189000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:46:56.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:04.065000+08:00","text":"部長，剛剛黃建賓委員有關心撤僑的問題，本席也滿關心的，我做幾個補充，跟再做一些比較詳細的提問。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:07.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:15.735000+08:00","text":"目前為止還有多少國民，或者僑民、留學生，甚至旅客等等，以外交部的掌握，還有多少人滯留在伊朗及相關的海灣國家？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:16.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:20.774000+08:00","text":"目前我們如果估計是8個館處，加上土耳其……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:22.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:23.075000+08:00","text":"土耳其不算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:23.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:30.038000+08:00","text":"土耳其不算，我們有6個國家、7個館處，土耳其我們也把它放進來，因為周邊有時候轉機或者有需求。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:30.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:31.298000+08:00","text":"那我們的僑民……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:33.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:35.460000+08:00","text":"僑民總共有3,000人。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:36.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:40.422000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說現在還滯留的，因為有一些回來了、有一些還在，現在狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:42.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:49.301000+08:00","text":"目前已經沒有滯留，更重要的是他有沒有意願想要離境，現在是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:49.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:50.202000+08:00","text":"現在都沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:50.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:50.702000+08:00","text":"一個都沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:50.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:53.683000+08:00","text":"大家都安全回來了？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顏司長嘉良","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:53.683000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:47:54.683000+08:00","text":"應該沒有，我們外處掌握是沒有。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:47:54.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:48:04.148000+08:00","text":"我們再來了解一下，因為剛剛部長在答詢的時候有講，或者是前面不管在新聞媒體或怎麼樣，很多人講也不是大家都用包機等等方式來處理，不過是這樣子嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:48:04.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:48:09.190000+08:00","text":"部長，其他國家針對僑民的撤離，跟當初在短時間內做的決策，你有了解嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:48:10.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:48:42.454000+08:00","text":"所謂專機，當然有用軍機、有用民航機，要看當地的情形，我們初步調查在地僑民沒有這個需求，因為他們當然也比較有經驗，可是旅行社帶的旅行團，曾經在一段時間內，因為要安置在那裡的時候……因為交通部跟觀光署是直接掌握旅行社，這方面我們也跟他們都很密切……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:48:42.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:01.969000+08:00","text":"我知道，我不會太為難你外交人員，因為這本來就是第一個跨部會協調；第二，我們的國際處境本來就比較狹窄，不過我還是要舉幾個例子，比如說日本就安排先搭乘巴士從陸路轉到一個相對安全的地方，然後有包機可以回來，還順便幫忙了我們一些國民……對。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:02.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:06.611000+08:00","text":"這都是好事，然後他們也準備軍用運輸機以備不時之需。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:07.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:18.394000+08:00","text":"新加坡也一樣，11號撤離218名，他們一樣用包機的方式處理，其中一半是留學生，我剛剛有講留學生就是這樣，甚至都有軍事上的一些準備，你總是要護航的嘛。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:19.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:31.257000+08:00","text":"美國也有撤僑班機，法國是安排航班，紐西蘭政府也下令軍用飛機先預做準備，所以這件事情你總不能講其他國家都沒有做，所以我們也不做。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:34.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:41.659000+08:00","text":"現在雖然階段性任務已經完成了，但你確定後面都不會有事、大家安全無虞，這個可不可以掛保證？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:41.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:51.021000+08:00","text":"戰爭還在發生中，所以我們也需要持續因應，有關於包機以及可能的需求跟方式，行政院有在評估，因為這涉及跨部會……是啊！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:55.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:49:57.024000+08:00","text":"我想院裡面都會有整體評估之後的決定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:49:57.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:00.446000+08:00","text":"本席也沒有要求你一定要派軍機或者是也要……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:00.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:04.169000+08:00","text":"這一定要做好應變準備，包括這個選項。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:04.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:12.775000+08:00","text":"是的，但我希望第一個，方法多元，第二個，如果其他國家做得到，我們也要儘量做到，我不是講現在就一定要做，因為沒有需求不一定做……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:13.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:17.439000+08:00","text":"要準備方案，有這個能力去執行，如果需要的話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:17.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:24.824000+08:00","text":"再來就是剛剛也有提到有一些旅客到最後是透過中國東方航空回來，他們顯然是透過中國大使館協助。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:24.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:29.447000+08:00","text":"我請教一下部長，這幾位旅客或者是旅行社當初有沒有尋求我們外館協助？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:31.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:39.174000+08:00","text":"有，這個資訊我們都有掌握，他要透過哪裡去轉機，我們先了解之後，哪些航班是有的，就像也有中國人透過我們臺灣轉機的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:39.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:39.854000+08:00","text":"你剛剛回答我都有在聽，所以我了解。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:43.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:45.098000+08:00","text":"所以他們有透過外交的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:46.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:50:57.864000+08:00","text":"上海這個例子基本上並沒有說有什麼樣的爭論，因為儘快地讓當事人可以選擇他認為最好的方式離境，我覺得這是我們的共同目標。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:50:57.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:00.766000+08:00","text":"所以部長基本上怎麼評價這件事？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:00.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:02.106000+08:00","text":"我覺得轉機到任何地方去，只要是從戰場離開……","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:02.106000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:03.106000+08:00","text":"只要安全回來就好嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:02.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:02.646000+08:00","text":"我是覺得我們應該都要支持啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:02.646000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:11.470000+08:00","text":"好，OK。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:11.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:22.312000+08:00","text":"我希望外交部至少做一點事，不要讓這些人受到非難，因為你講的這很敏感，大家考量政治立場，要你比照日本還表達感謝之意也太為難你們了，這本席不會強加於你。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:22.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:28.093000+08:00","text":"但問題是有些人講這是認知作戰，會形成國安破口，甚至側翼也想要去攻擊。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:28.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:39.058000+08:00","text":"我覺得至少我們國家可以確保這些人不要受非難，因為外交部已經等於公開表態，任何方式只要能夠安全、迅速、有效脫離混亂回到臺灣，都應該要正面看待。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:39.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:41.120000+08:00","text":"部長可以承諾這事嗎？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:41.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:42.321000+08:00","text":"在這個地方公開承諾……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:42.321000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:43.321000+08:00","text":"我同意啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:42.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:44.964000+08:00","text":"我希望大家不要再針對這群人非難，趕快翻篇好不好？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:45.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:50.931000+08:00","text":"因為每個人的處境都很特別，當事人最在乎他的生命跟安全，所以我們全力來協助他能夠離開。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:51.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:51:56.974000+08:00","text":"所以撤僑這件事有兩個提醒，第一個，因為戰事可能會延長，後面可能會有需求，該比照其他國家的方式準備。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:51:57.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:07.299000+08:00","text":"不過我也在這裡呼籲國人，可能這個時候不要再過去，包括去旅遊或者是轉機，萬一戰爭又升高，然後又困住了……","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:07.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:13.302000+08:00","text":"降低風險是一環，你該宣導要宣導，但是做好準備，對那邊的人的動態隨時掌握，確保安全。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:13.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:19.885000+08:00","text":"第二，不管透過任何手段進來，不要再讓政治立場去干擾這個事情，讓它可以順利，秉持這樣的原則就好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:20.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:23.966000+08:00","text":"再者，花一點點時間跟部長探討一下國際局勢的一些變化。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:24.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:34.329000+08:00","text":"最近美國川普總統外交政策路線跟傳統外交圈子裡面認知的，其實有非常非常大的落差，其中最重要的一點，基本上就是國際組織的參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:34.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:34.909000+08:00","text":"部長，川普政府參與國際組織是積極的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:40.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:50.619000+08:00","text":"他自己在形成以他們國家為中心的國際聯盟、組織，當然也退出了一些組織。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:50.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:52:52.300000+08:00","text":"這對我們來講，有挑戰也有機會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:52:53.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:00.684000+08:00","text":"他退出了很多組織，或者是用拒繳會費、消極參與等等方式，他其實是往後退，大的方向來說他的參與率是下降的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:03.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:12.716000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長的回答很好，這就是我正想問的問題，在美國漸趨消極的大環境下，我們參與國際組織的策略要怎麼樣來因應？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:12.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:15.819000+08:00","text":"您剛剛講的機遇或者是挑戰分別是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:16.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:16.139000+08:00","text":"你簡單說明一下。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:17.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:28.724000+08:00","text":"其實美國雖然退出一些國際組織，他還在聯合國，所以對於比如說聯合國第2758號決議，他不但有更完整的，他還發函各個使節團。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:28.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:53:41.549000+08:00","text":"另外，他在形成中的、新的國際組織或聯盟，比如像矽盛事這種供應鏈，當然跟半導體AI有關，我們就變成裡面不可或缺的夥伴，這個也是機會。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:53:41.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:00.101000+08:00","text":"至於你說我們原來想積極爭取的一些國際組織，美國退出之後，當然會有一定的影響，所以我們也會跟G7其他國家協商，是不是能夠由他們比較有份量的國家來領銜，因為有時候要集體去洽，或者是支持我們的一些行動……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:00.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:09.467000+08:00","text":"好，這個剛好也是我要問的，因為美國雖然退出了很多國際組織，但他同時在比如說第2758號決議上面，做了非常強的政治表態，加大了一定的力道。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:09.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:12.349000+08:00","text":"但本席想要問的是，實質上他改變了什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:12.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:19.533000+08:00","text":"比如說以聯合國第2758號決議來講，他對全世界講，這些東西不應該排除臺灣有意義參與國際組織的各種方式嘛！","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:20.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:25.436000+08:00","text":"我們長期以來，不管誰在執政的時候，大家都希望比如說國際刑警組織，對不對？對。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:25.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:27.017000+08:00","text":"國際民航組織，大家可以用實質參與的方式處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:28.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:29.939000+08:00","text":"這段時間現在進度如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:30.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:30.699000+08:00","text":"有沒有遇到狀況跟挑戰？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:30.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:54.528000+08:00","text":"委員提到聯合國周邊組織有4個組織是我們特別集中要爭取的，除了剛剛提到ICAO或INTERPOL以外，當然他退出了UNFCCC跟WHO，我們在這2個是不一樣的處理方法，比如說，以國際民航組織跟國際刑警組織，其實沒有臺灣世界會有一個漏洞。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:54.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:54:55.288000+08:00","text":"是啊，大家都這樣說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:54:55.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:03.753000+08:00","text":"這時候我覺得他們對我們支持的力道，其實是持續甚至增強，甚至包括日本、加拿大等。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:03.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:09.475000+08:00","text":"在這樣的局面下，我們還是要想辦法加入或是想辦法參與國際刑警組織或民航組織。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:10.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:11.697000+08:00","text":"現在外交部的策略是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:11.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:12.037000+08:00","text":"是正面突破？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:12.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:23.482000+08:00","text":"反正各個國家形成集團跟陣營，所以我要站在人多這邊，正面突破，或是要迂迴參與，或是因為怎麼樣都繞不過中國大陸的打壓，所以乾脆死了這條心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:23.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:25.383000+08:00","text":"現在外交部打算用什麼樣的策略因應？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:25.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:36.289000+08:00","text":"有一些有輪值主席國是比較友善的國家，比如國際民航組織，日本擔任主席，秘書處因為過去有一些是中共長年經營，他就掌控。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:38.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:52.017000+08:00","text":"我們有道理是一回事，但是這涉及到投票或涉及到政治力的角力，這時候我們的議程聚焦幾個國際組織，我們也要有策略，而不是都去叩門，結果都沒有進展。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:53.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:55.219000+08:00","text":"是啊，所以正面突破可能有一些困難，對不對？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:55.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:55:56.219000+08:00","text":"有沒有迂迴參與的方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:55:55.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:08.266000+08:00","text":"另外，我再跟委員補充，比如世界衛生組織，因為那時候江啟臣副院長希望我們去辦智慧醫療展，我們智慧醫療跟健康產業在那裡就形成……今年預期……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:08.266000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:09.287000+08:00","text":"還是走迂迴參與嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:09.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:34.267000+08:00","text":"我們也期待委員們能夠到場指導，但是美國可能會形成新的跟世界衛生組織性質相近的組織，我們也總是ready準備好，有時候是挑戰、有時候是機會，我們也要做好各種準備。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:35.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:41.494000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長有提到四大組織，因為今天時間比較有限，我還有最後一個問題，四大組織的參與策略，你會後提供一份報告，好不好？好。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:41.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:50.722000+08:00","text":"讓我們做長期追蹤跟了解，因為我們也希望有突破，哪怕你只是迂迴參與，我覺得在外交上都可以或多或少加分，我沒有要求一定要突破……","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:50.722000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:51.722000+08:00","text":"我們來提供，再請委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:50.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:56:54.365000+08:00","text":"或你要在多少時間內達成什麼目標，這太為難你們，我都非常清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:56:54.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:57:14.849000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，剛剛部長有提到，因為國際局勢的改變、美國策略的改變，很多時候可能多邊轉雙邊，比如最近荷姆茲海峽的狀況，大家都想說照理來講，過去國際社會應該要共同處理，來確保海峽航路暢通，但如果沒辦法處理呢？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:57:15.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:57:40.381000+08:00","text":"這跟我剛剛提到的美國撤出國際組織，降低參與，少了一個很大的平臺，少了一個協作的空間，所以就變成美國要個別、雙邊去找各個國家來協調這件事情，顯然以現在消息露出，好像不是特別順利，大家對於這件事情心態是比較保留的，我覺得也合理，因為從外交角度，大家以本國利益為優先的情況之下，幹嘛去擔負高風險的狀況呢？","quality":0.993},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:57:41.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:57:42.883000+08:00","text":"這是一個大的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:57:42.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:58:06.987000+08:00","text":"但我要提醒部長，當外交專業人員做了共同考慮，不管是多邊、雙邊暫時都陷入僵局，走不通的時候，臺灣內部竟然有一群人說我們要率先響應這樣的協議，甚至要派武力等等去響應川普總統的說法，認為這樣可以帶來新的外交突破。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:58:07.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:58:15.652000+08:00","text":"部長，從外交的專業來講，或各位外交部人員可以補充，這樣的說法對臺灣的安全或是對國際利益來講是有幫助的嗎？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:58:16.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:58:22.408000+08:00","text":"外交一定以自己的國家利益，包括主權跟安全為出發點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:58:22.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:58:58.348000+08:00","text":"第一個，美國也沒有邀請，再來，我們的角色比較不是透過軍事方式，臺灣的外交走得出去比較不是在軍事方面的角色，但是安全面、很多情報交換、各種可能，包括俄烏戰爭，也是有些我們可以做的事情，也確保我們國家的利益跟委員……","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:58:58.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:01.590000+08:00","text":"所以因為美國沒有邀請，也不太適合，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:01.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:04.912000+08:00","text":"部長，我也不多為難你，但你看我點了這個事情，跟剛剛我講的事情……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:04.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:05.332000+08:00","text":"對，因為那會捲入一個……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:05.332000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:06.332000+08:00","text":"我們也沒辦法掌握嘛！","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:05.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:06.753000+08:00","text":"我們比較不能夠掌握的戰場。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:12.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:15.657000+08:00","text":"這部分也希望外交部適時有一些比較合理的說法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:15.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:22.779000+08:00","text":"我常常講國防題目跟外交題目不要有太多政治的色彩介入，其實推動會比較順利，專業才會比較被尊重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:23.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:30.120000+08:00","text":"外交就是多交朋友、少找敵人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:30.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:31.601000+08:00","text":"少樹敵，對，朋友多多、敵人少少。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:32.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:48.930000+08:00","text":"不管是剛剛我講的撤僑的題目，有一些人透過中國大陸的角度，不要讓他們受到非議跟責難，或是荷姆茲海峽一些基於短視的政治利益搞煽動跟操作，這時候外交部要適時站在專業的立場，以國家利益為優先。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:49.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:52.474000+08:00","text":"不過這影響、衝擊很大，因為涉及到能源，我們要很專注做一些因應。","quality":0.481},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:53.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:55.817000+08:00","text":"要做一些因應，但是不能亂搞，好不好？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:56.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:57.659000+08:00","text":"幾個事情提醒部長，也謝謝部長詳細的回答，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:57.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:57.699000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:58.199000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:01.913286+08:00","text":"接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}