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麻煩請秘書長跟考選部 呃 那退府跟那個 市部長 市部長秘書長還有 劉部長也有嘛劉部長對 考選部的劉部長可以可以可以好委員長委員長早 委員長確認一下我們現在如果 退休的公務人員他如果到有公費資助的機關去任職的話他的薪資是有一個最低工資的上限對吧"},{"start":40.756,"end":68.246,"text":"這規定是從什麼時候開始的應該是我們在修改那個退伏法的時候就已經其實是在年金改革之前就已經是這樣那當時年金改革之前因為這些退休的公務人員可能政府認為說他們的退休金領的比較多那如果到又到另外一個機關任職的話如果沒有一個上限的話會有領雙薪的感覺所以有訂這個上限但是年改好像沒有把這個修掉"},{"start":68.846,"end":78.856,"text":"因為年改之後他們的退休金被砍了很多現在已經不是領的跟當初講的一樣那為什麼還要有這個上限有沒有曾經考慮過要把這個上限做一個調整"},{"start":81.578,"end":105.247,"text":"年改之前是用這個公司嘛現在也是啊就是這個部分因為他有立法當初的一個原意立法的原意我知道 可是現在已經不一樣了嘛現在年改了嘛所以我覺得第一個因為年改之後他們退休金也變少了而且他現在是退休到另外一個地方上班是憑自己的勞力"},{"start":106.147,"end":119.746,"text":"他不是憑空而來的錢啊所以你給他一個天花板讓他不能賺更多我覺得不合理啊我希望那個考試院可以針對這個地方來研議一下好不好那我今天會這邊提出來其實也是因為在教育現場遇到一個問題啊"},{"start":121.076,"end":144.431,"text":"什麼問題呢因為這個教師的終點費很久沒有調了嘛那好不容易前一段時間教育部終於幫教師調了終點費那當然不夠但是總算跨出第一步可是因為現在缺老師缺得非常嚴重那很嚴重的情況之下有很多退休老師他願意回到學校裡面來當終點老師但你忽然間終點費提高之後他能夠帶的課就少了"},{"start":145.071,"end":165.724,"text":"一下就達到上限了所以也造成那個教育現場的問題所以基於兩個理由啦我知道那個我看起來那個司務長好像第一次聽到有人提這個提這個問題有點錯愕甚至剛剛的資訊還不對啊還跟我講說說現在不是領最低工資現在就是領最低工資應該是我們有內部在討論這個議題有在討論喔"},{"start":168.246,"end":182.502,"text":"我沒有問你就沒有內部就沒討論我一問就內部有討論沒有關係沒有關係沒有關係這不是這什麼啊退位公事這就很合理啊第一個他已經年改了嘛退位金已經被砍啊所以你給他第二個他這是自己去上班啊又不是貧困給他錢第三個我剛剛講說"},{"start":185.385,"end":213.466,"text":"這個缺老師嘛退休老師進來之後他能夠上的課變少因為他一下就到上限啊而且整個勞動市場現在都缺缺人嘛所以你放寬這個如果退休公務人員去別的地方上班的工資的上限其實也可以解決一部分的人力的就業市場人力的問題所以我覺得這個事情是應該做的好不好那個部長請問一下大概什麼時候秘書長你覺得你認為這是不是應該一個改革的方向"},{"start":215.305,"end":241.721,"text":"這個聽起來是有討論空間所以全劇部也在討論當中不要每次我們在講什麼就說在討論當中我沒有講你們就沒有討論當中我們講的就討論當中好像一副都是我早就逼你先想到了就是要來這邊爭這個口舌之爭沒關係那你跟我講你什麼時候你們討論到什麼時候就要討論到討論到牛年馬月還是大月在冬季什麼時候"},{"start":242.682,"end":255.895,"text":"一個月可不可以一個月把方案提出來好不好報委員這個真的是我們不需要不是這個有什麼提高他的之前我跟你們講之前公務人員到大學去教書也是有上限後來也是後來有試限嘛"},{"start":258.337,"end":277.871,"text":"那現在公務人員到大學教書這個就放寬了嘛其實這個不是什麼了不起的問題啦好像講什麼大工程一樣沒有那麼大的工程啦要不要放寬而已你對於教育現場缺工或者是其他缺工或者是公務人員退休之後他退休金減少讓他多賺一點錢你願不願意而已嘛這個哪有什麼好工程的"},{"start":279.096,"end":308.36,"text":"公務人員不願意做事情啦 會有一百個理由啦願意做 也可以有一千零一個理由啦就看你願不願意做嘛 秘書長你應該是勇於認識的人啦好不好 可以啦 我們可以喔 一個月 一個月把報告好不好 主席 可以嗎 請可以喔 請一個月把這個研究的報告給本席啦 好不好要做不要做 這個主席才是請秘書長這裡喔 就是一個月內 然後將報告提供給業員之委員 還有我們司法委員會的委員們好不好"},{"start":308.86,"end":336.029,"text":"好 我再前面問一個問題因為前幾天嘛就是有公務員針對就是烤雞烤雞烤雞啦 夾燈移燈的比例提出這個在網路上面有提出他的意見然後我後來看到人事總署有回應他說看到了網友的呼籲了所以呢今年的夾燈比例一定不會低於前一年我覺得這很奇怪真的是喊的喔"},{"start":336.997,"end":358.619,"text":"今天到底要打甲還是甲乙你要根據他的表現嘛所以很多工人為什麼會不爽是因為我明明表現很好啊可是因為我比較菜啊所以我主管就說不然你今年先扛一下過兩年再輪別人所以才會有人呼籲說要把這個比例取消啊結果人事總署的回應居然是說啊沒關係啦我看到你的呼籲了啦不然今年就比去年高一點"},{"start":359.159,"end":384.435,"text":"是在菜市場喊價喔所以我剛剛講一句話啦因為考試法是考試院權責所以人總可能不方便在這個市場這個民主黨其實我也特別去看了齁其實這個東西跟什麼考試法也沒什麼關係啦這個是考試院跟人總他的命令嘛他要求公家機關說你要按照比例這比例還調整過欸在最早的時候是九成最早是九成啦"},{"start":385.035,"end":405.587,"text":"不是這樣有的很早以前你可以去問一下以前公務人員假等的比例最早有三分之一後來有三分之一以上到二分之一為原則後來就有不設限所以實務上變到九成以上就九成嘛又七成五嘛這樣太大鍋飯了所以又退回來五十為原則七十五為上限"},{"start":406.047,"end":428.516,"text":"但是這個比例所以這個第一個嘛你看烤雞到底要不要打甲打乙這跟油價一樣浮動啦這是用喊的啦不是看你表現好不好啦這本來就是一個人問題那現在如果願意改革那我看到人總的回應居然是說沒關係今年比去年多這還是用喊的啊理論上就是要把這個比例把它取消嘛"},{"start":428.976,"end":453.102,"text":"考機法就依考試院說法這個不是考機法 這個不是考機法這個母法裡面沒有規定說比例要多少對 母法沒有規定其實考試院跟人總願意做 一旨命令馬上就改了你一旨命令馬上就改了沒有法源啊 母法沒有這件事情我覺得每次都要講說這是法 這是法 然後好像說都沒修法沒有 你現在要做 你明天就可以改了"},{"start":453.806,"end":476.712,"text":"沒有錯啦 你願不願意做 林市長你願不願意做我講我要做什麼 因為剛剛有跟好幾位委員報告 我就要重申就是說我們現在已經進行到 我們院內 院部有溝通那全區部現在就是即將開始跟機關做意見徵詢如果順利的話 其實我聽今天很多委員的意見我認為這件事不會 應該也有相當的共識朝著這個方向"},{"start":477.862,"end":503.332,"text":"衡議部下個月,最快下個月可以把法案送到院裡面來那我們的期望是,我這個會期把法案修法不是只有比例上限的問題全盤的修正,我們送到立法院來那如果立法院可以像去年這樣支持我們去修保障法的處理的話加速來審議,我們希望今年可以完成這整個工程"},{"start":503.672,"end":524.189,"text":"那所以我這邊一定會盡量督促全序部盡快還有院裡面我們盡快把法案送到立法院來到時候再請召委跟各委員來指教如果大家都支持沒有問題啦但是我覺得還是要切開來講第一個考積法當然大家盡快通過但是取消這個比例加增比例的你立刻就可以做了我覺得不要推給考積法你立刻就可以做了"},{"start":524.469,"end":541.973,"text":"如果考機法修正完就沒有這個問題但是如果說如果沒有的話切開來處理因為你那個假等這個你忙就可以做了啦真的不要推考機法修法進度這兩回事啦這兩回事啦希望你可以朝剛講的方向啦謝謝謝謝委員指教"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:13.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:13.362000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:13.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:19.466000+08:00","text":"麻煩請秘書長跟施部長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:19.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:22.688000+08:00","text":"施部長、秘書長，還有考選部的劉部長也有嘛？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:23.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:25.490000+08:00","text":"劉部長，可以、可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:27.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:27.131000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:27.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:27.431000+08:00","text":"秘書長早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:28.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:41.099000+08:00","text":"我想確認一下，現在如果退休的公務人員到有公費資助的機關去任職的話，他的薪資是有一個最低工資的上限，對吧？有。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:42.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:43.717000+08:00","text":"這個規定是從什麼時候開始？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:45.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:50.419000+08:00","text":"應該是我們在修改退撫法的時候就已經……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:50.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T11:59:53.800000+08:00","text":"其實是在年金改革之前就已經是這樣嘛，對不對？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T11:59:54.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:07.465000+08:00","text":"當時在年金改革之前，因為這些退休的公務人員，可能政府認為他們的退休金領得比較多，如果又到另外一個機關任職而沒有一個上限的話，會有領雙薪的感覺，所以有訂這個上限。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:08.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:17.953000+08:00","text":"但是年改好像沒有把這個部分修掉，因為年改之後，他們的退休金被砍得很多嘛，現在領的已經不是跟當初講的一樣，那為什麼還要有這個上限？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:18.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:20.836000+08:00","text":"有沒有曾經考慮過要把這個上限做一個調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:23.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:26.179000+08:00","text":"我的了解是年改之前是用最低工資嘛，現在我們……","quality":0.35},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:27.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:27.820000+08:00","text":"現在也是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:29.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:33.962000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為有立法當初的原意，就是也是……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:35.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:37.143000+08:00","text":"立法的原意，我知道，可是現在已經又不一樣了嘛！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:37.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:38.083000+08:00","text":"現在年改了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:38.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:49.549000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得第一個，因為年改之後，他們的退休金也變少了，而且他現在是退休到另外一個地方上班，是憑自己的勞力，不是憑空而來的錢！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:50.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:53.695000+08:00","text":"你給他一個天花板，讓他不能賺更多，我覺得不合理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:54.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:00:57.460000+08:00","text":"我希望考試院可以針對這個地方來研議一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:00:58.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:03.196000+08:00","text":"我今天會特別提出來，其實也是因為在教育現場遇到一個問題，什麼問題？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:03.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:13.943000+08:00","text":"因為教師的鐘點費很久沒有調了，好不容易，前一段時間，教育部終於幫教師調了鐘點費，那當然不夠，但是總算跨出第一步。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:14.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:30.233000+08:00","text":"可是因為現在老師缺得非常嚴重，很嚴重的情況之下，有很多退休老師願意回到學校當鐘點老師，但忽然間鐘點費提高之後，他能夠帶的課就少了，一下就達到上限了，所以也造成教育現場的問題。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:30.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:38.578000+08:00","text":"所以基於兩個理由，我知道看起來施部長，好像第一次聽到有人提這個問題，有點錯愕啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:38.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:45.282000+08:00","text":"甚至剛剛的資訊還不對，還跟我講說現在不是領最低工資，現在就是領最低工資。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:45.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:47.464000+08:00","text":"應該是我們內部有在討論這個議題。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:47.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:47.704000+08:00","text":"有在討論喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:47.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:50.246000+08:00","text":"這需要時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:50.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:55.772000+08:00","text":"我沒有問你，內部就沒有討論；我一問，就內部有討論，沒有關係、沒有關係、沒有關係！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:55.772000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:56.772000+08:00","text":"這需要很大的社會共識啊！","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:55.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:01:57.334000+08:00","text":"這不是什麼社會共識，這就很合理啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:01:57.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:00.057000+08:00","text":"第一個他已經年改了，退休金也被砍了啊！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:01.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:04.302000+08:00","text":"所以你給他……而第二個，這是他自己去上班，又不是憑空給他錢。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:04.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:14.971000+08:00","text":"第三個，我剛剛講說缺老師嘛，退休老師進來之後，他能夠上的課變少，因為他一下就到上限，而且整個勞動市場現在都缺人嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:15.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:28.461000+08:00","text":"所以放寬這個部分，就是如果退休公務人員去別的地方上課、上班工資的上限，其實也可以解決一部分就業市場人力的問題，所以我覺得這個事情是應該做的，好不好？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:29.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:35.446000+08:00","text":"部長請問一下，大概什麼時候……秘書長，你認為這是不是應該改革的方向？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:37.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:40.367000+08:00","text":"這個聽起來是有討論空間，所以銓敘部也在討論當中。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:42.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:45.470000+08:00","text":"不要每次我們在講什麼，就說在討論當中啦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:45.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:46.470000+08:00","text":"我們認為這個議題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:46.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:48.652000+08:00","text":"我沒有講，你們就沒有討論當中；我們講了，就討論當中。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:48.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:51.854000+08:00","text":"一副好像都是我早就比你先想到了啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:52.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:55.176000+08:00","text":"就是要來這邊做口舌之爭……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:55.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:56.176000+08:00","text":"這個沒有、沒有……謝謝委員提出這個議題來，這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:55.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:02:59.058000+08:00","text":"沒關係，那你跟我講，你們討論到什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:02:59.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:02.281000+08:00","text":"是要討論到牛年馬月？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:02.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:03.321000+08:00","text":"還是大約在冬季？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:03.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:03.701000+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:04.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:05.423000+08:00","text":"1個月可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:06.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:08.406000+08:00","text":"1個月把方案提出來，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:08.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:10.087000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個真的是我們必須要徵詢更多人的意見。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:10.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:12.930000+08:00","text":"不是，這個有什麼……這個是提高他的……之前……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:13.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:13.991000+08:00","text":"我們會把……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:13.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:22.599000+08:00","text":"之前公務人員到大學去教書也是有上限，後來來有釋憲，現在公務人員到大學教書就放寬了嘛！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:22.599000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:23.599000+08:00","text":"對，到民間……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:22.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:29.164000+08:00","text":"其實這個不是什麼了不起的問題啦，好像講的什麼大工程一樣，沒有那麼大的工程啦，要不要放寬而已！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:29.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:38.370000+08:00","text":"對於教育現場缺工、其他缺工，或者是公務人員退休之後退休金減少，讓他多賺一點錢，你願不願意而已嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:38.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:39.851000+08:00","text":"這個哪有什麼好工程的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:41.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:46.580000+08:00","text":"公務人員不願意做事情，會有一百個理由，願意做也可以有一千零一個理由啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:47.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:48.102000+08:00","text":"就看你願不願意做嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:48.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:51.725000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你應該是勇於任事的人，好不好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:51.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:52.585000+08:00","text":"可以啦，我們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:52.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:54.807000+08:00","text":"可以啊，1個月把報告……好不好？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:55.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:55.588000+08:00","text":"主席，可以嘛？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:55.588000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:03:56.588000+08:00","text":"1個月我們來做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:03:56.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:00.111000+08:00","text":"可以吧，請1個月把研究的報告給本席，好不好？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:01.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:01.693000+08:00","text":"要做不要做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:02.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:02.934000+08:00","text":"主席裁示。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:03.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:10.860000+08:00","text":"麻煩請秘書長1個月內將報告提供給葉元之委員，還有我們司法及法制委員會的委員們，好不好？好的。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:11.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:34.828000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我再簡單問一個問題，因為前幾天就是有公務人員針對考績甲等、乙等的比例，在網路上面有有提出他的意見，我後來看到人事總處有回應，他說「看到了網友的呼籲，所以今年的甲等比例一定不會低於前一年」。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:35.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:38.009000+08:00","text":"我覺得這很奇怪，這個用喊的喔！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:38.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:43.321000+08:00","text":"今天到底要打甲還是乙，你要根據他的表現嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:44.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:45.624000+08:00","text":"所以很多公務人員為什麼會不爽？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:45.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:04:54.973000+08:00","text":"是因為明明表現很好，可是因為我比較菜，結果主管就說「不然你今年先扛一下，過兩年再輪別人」，所以才會有人呼籲說要把這比例取消啊！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:04:55.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:03.440000+08:00","text":"結果人事總處的回應居然是說「沒關係，我看到你的呼籲了，不然今年就比去年高一點」，是在菜市場喊價喔！所以……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:03.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:08.984000+08:00","text":"我幫他講一句話啦，因為考績法是考試院的權責，所以人總可能不方便在這個部分說太多……","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:10.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:17.389000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我也特別去看，其實這個東西跟考績法也沒什麼關係，這個是考試院跟人總的命令嘛！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:18.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:23.153000+08:00","text":"他要求公家機關要按照比例，這個比例還調整過。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:23.153000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:24.153000+08:00","text":"是，這是這幾年來的做法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:23.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:24.454000+08:00","text":"在最早的時候是九成啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:27.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:27.135000+08:00","text":"不是、不是……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:27.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:31.498000+08:00","text":"有的，很早以前，你可以去問一下以前的公務人員……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:31.498000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:32.498000+08:00","text":"我知道，沒有、沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:31.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:32.058000+08:00","text":"甲等的比例……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:32.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:39.942000+08:00","text":"最早有三分之一，後來有三分之一以上到二分之一為原則，後來就不設限，所以實務上變到九成以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:40.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:40.443000+08:00","text":"對，九成嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:41.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:42.124000+08:00","text":"又七成五嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:42.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:51.268000+08:00","text":"後來大家覺得這樣太大鍋飯了，所以又退回來50為原則，75為上限，但是這個比例真的有它的問題。","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:51.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:05:57.971000+08:00","text":"秘書長，所以第一個，你看，考績到底要不要打甲、打乙，這跟油價一樣浮動，這用喊的啦！","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:05:58.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:05.694000+08:00","text":"不是看你表現好不好，這本來就是一個問題，現在如果願意改革，我看到人總的回應居然是：沒關係，今年比去年多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:06.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:06.794000+08:00","text":"這還是用喊的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:07.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:10.496000+08:00","text":"理論上就是要把這個比例取消嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:10.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:12.216000+08:00","text":"考績法就以考試院的說法為主。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:12.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:16.377000+08:00","text":"這個不是考績法，母法裡面沒有規定比例要多少。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:16.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:17.377000+08:00","text":"對，但它跟……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:17.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:25.280000+08:00","text":"對，母法沒有規定，其實考試院跟人總願意做，一紙命令馬上就改了，你一紙命令馬上就改了，沒有法源啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:26.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:35.082000+08:00","text":"母法沒有這件事情，我覺得每次都要講說這是法、這是法，然後好像說都沒修法，沒有，你現在要做明天就可以改了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:37.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:37.807000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你願不願意做？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:37.807000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:06:38.807000+08:00","text":"沒有錯啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:06:38.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:34.239000+08:00","text":"我講我要做什麼，因為剛剛有跟好幾位委員報告，我再重申，我們現在已經有進行到院、部溝通，銓敘部現在即將開始跟機關做意見徵詢，如果順利的話，其實我聽今天很多委員的意見，我認為這件事應該也有相當的共識，朝著這個方向，銓敘部最快下個月可以把法案送到院裡面，我們的期望是這個會期把考績法修法，不是只有比例、上限的問題，全盤的修正，我們送到立法院來，如果立法院可以像去年一樣支持我們修保障法這樣的處理，加速來審議，我們希望今年可以完成這整個工程，所以我一定會儘量的督促銓敘部及院裏面，儘快把法案送到立法院來，到時候再請召委跟各位委員來指教跟支持。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:34.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:45.969000+08:00","text":"如果大家都支持沒有問題，但是我覺得還是要切開來講，第一個考績法，當然大家儘快通過，但是取消甲等比例你立刻就可以做了，我覺得不要推給考績法，你立刻就可以做。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:46.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:48.372000+08:00","text":"如果考績法修正完就沒有這個問題……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:48.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:55.722000+08:00","text":"但是如果沒有的話切開來處理，因為那個甲等你馬上就可以做了啦！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:55.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:56.503000+08:00","text":"真的不要推給考績法。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:56.503000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:07:58.465000+08:00","text":"我了解委員的意思，所以我們要看考績法修法的進度。","quality":0.227},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:07:58.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:00.087000+08:00","text":"這是兩回事啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:00.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:03.632000+08:00","text":"希望你可以朝剛剛講的方向啦！謝謝。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:03.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:03.953000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:04.453000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:06.453000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:06.753000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:12.467286+08:00","text":"所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:12.767286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:23.338714+08:00","text":"委員質詢時所要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-19T12:08:23.638714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-19T12:08:37.067286+08:00","text":"蔡其昌委員、楊瓊瓔委員、林倩綺委員、吳宗憲委員所提的書面質詢，就列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}